Presence & Power - with Brenna Bullock | Wake-Up Call Conversations

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Wake-Up Call
Episode: Presence & Power - with Brenna Bullock | Wake-Up Call Conversations
Date: March 12, 2026
Host: J.D. (of Seedbed)
Guest: Brenna Bullock

---

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt episode, host J.D. is joined by worship leader and songwriter Brenna Bullock for an expansive conversation about the mysterious interplay between the presence and power of Jesus, especially as experienced in communion and worship. They discuss the story and meaning behind the new Bristol House album "Presence and Power," personal experiences of suffering and healing, the transformative role of hymns in spiritual formation, and how encountering Jesus shapes all of life—including profound moments of loss. Throughout, they explore holy mystery, creativity, practical theology, and the enduring power of song to carry faith across generations.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Story Behind "Presence and Power"

• Opening Reflection: The episode begins with a snippet from the song "Presence and Power" (04:24), introducing the theme that communion is more than simple remembrance—it embodies divine love.
• Brenna’s Creative Process:
  • The song emerged over years of her journey deeper into communion’s meaning.
  • “It feels like something that the Lord just gave us. And we are yet to fully understand what it is even that we're singing.” (01:56, Bullock)
  • Emphasizes the ongoing, unfolding revelation in worship songwriting.

Personal Story: Suffering, Encounter, and Calling

• Childhood Illness & Encounter with Jesus:
  • Brenna shares about a pivotal encounter with Christ during serious childhood illness that set the course for her faith and worship calling.
  • “All the ways of my childhood and the things that I endured... really began to weave my heart to Jesus and connect me to him in such a formative way.” (07:10, Bullock)
• Encouragement for Young Listeners:
  • She speaks directly to young people experiencing hardship:
    • “Jesus is. He's worth it. He's worth everything.... All those other things kind of start to fade away.... You are going to be okay.” (11:36, Bullock)

Communion: From Ritual to Movement

• Communion as a Lived Encounter:
  • Brenna recounts a transformative stretch in the hospital and at home marked by physical suffering, receiving communion as a sacramental act of healing.
    • “JD came to my house, served me communion. That was a moment on. I mean, that was more than a moment. That was one of those things where the Lord was like, take note of this.” (15:38, Bullock)
• Role of the Table in Spiritual Life:
  • Table imagery—operating room, Psalm 23 table, communion table—as ongoing places of healing encounter.
    • “What do you do in an operating room?... You let the physician do the work.” (17:56, Bullock)
• Wesleyan Communion Theology:
  • Communing as more than mere memorial, but participation in the eternal, material-spiritual mystery.
    • “It's not about activity... nor passivity. It's about receptivity.” (23:36, J.D.)
    • “If you sit out there... and you don't go forward, you're just passive. You get—you're getting nothing. But nothing you could do could make any of that happen. You're going with your hands open. And he is saying, my body given for you.” (24:30, J.D.)
    • “Anamnesis... The thing is happening again because it's like it never stopped happening... It's coming forward.” (27:59, J.D.)

Hymns & Worship: The Power of Song Across the Ages

• The Weaving of Old and New:
  • Bristol House’s mission is blending the ancient and contemporary in worship.
    • “They don’t blend them, they weave them. They do a weaving of the old and the new and it's tapestry like.” (05:44, J.D.)
• Hymns as Cardio for the Soul:
  • Hymns anchor, renew the mind, and give language to things “we don’t yet believe.”
    • “It gives you something to anchor to. It matters what we say, it matters what we sing...it has changed me as a worshipper.” (36:01, Bullock)
  • J.D. shares the principle: “We were made to sing, because there’s something about singing that activates the fullness of human personhood.” (33:23, J.D.)
• Continuity with the Church Universal:
  • Not “just us here”—but the saints across the ages gather in worship.
    • “We're the communion of saints. And they are worshiping God.” (39:00, J.D.)
    • “It was about a story that I’ve written that is way beyond anything you could ever really comprehend. Humbling. So humbling.” (41:16, Bullock)
• Songwriting Challenge & Legacy:
  • Inspired by Charles Wesley’s output.
    • “Charles Wesley wrote over 6,000 songs… Are y’all up to that yet?” (42:38, J.D.)
    • “He wrote tons of hymns on Communion.” (43:37, J.D.)

Practicing and Participating in the Mystery

• On Activity, Passivity, & Receptivity (23:17–24:30):
  • J.D. distinguishes between striving, passivity, and true receptivity in spiritual life—a recurring motif for the entire conversation.
• Communion as “The Kiss of God”:
  • “It’s the kiss of God, isn’t it?” (29:24, J.D.)
• Embodied Worship Transforms Community:
  • Personal testimony about the power of worship leadership:
    • “You were just moving. And you know, sometimes... worship leaders can be distracting. And they're moving. I'm like, oh, no, she's drawing us in. She's going somewhere in those tennis shoes. You better believe I'm trying. Taking us with her. We're going to the throne of God.” (52:08–52:18, J.D. & Bullock)

Grief, Presence, and Hope

• Loss and the Communion of Saints (45:58–49:39):
  • Brenna reflects on the recent death of her father, sharing profound grief and comfort within the hope of Christian resurrection.
    • “My mom just took our hands and looked at us and said, this is why we believe... In my worst fear, I can tell you that fear became a reality and Jesus was there.” (47:31–49:19, Bullock)
  • J.D. connects this to the need for songs anchoring believers not only in present faith, but ultimate hope:
    • “We need songs that lift that up. We need songs that cause for people to long for fullness of His presence. For heaven. For new creation.” (49:42–50:11, J.D.)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Communion’s Mystery:
  • “It's not about activity... nor passivity. It's about receptivity.” (23:36, J.D.)
• Worship Leadership Embodied:
  • “She's drawing us in. She's going somewhere in those tennis shoes... Taking us with her. We're going to the throne of God.” (52:08–52:18, J.D. & Bullock)
• Communion as "The Kiss of God":
  • “That's kind of like... I'm not really going to kiss my spouse because it's such a special thing. We're just going to do it every now and then... Communion. Right. It's the kiss of God, isn't it?” (29:24, J.D.)
• On the Communion of Saints:
  • “We're the communion of saints. And they are worshiping God... I often ask this question about a worship service: Like, if St. Francis showed up here today, would he recognize anything we're doing? Would he feel at home here?” (39:00–39:19, J.D.)
• Grief and Resurrection Hope:
  • “This is why we believe... In my worst fear, I can tell you that fear became a reality and Jesus was there.” (47:31–49:19, Bullock)

---

Important Segments with Timestamps

• 00:44 – Introduction of “Presence and Power” lyric and devotion
• 03:33 – Brenna sings the chorus of “Presence and Power”
• 07:10 – Brenna’s personal story of childhood, faith, and calling
• 11:36 – Advice to young people facing suffering
• 14:50 – Hospital story & the power of communion during suffering
• 18:00–22:00 – Table/Communion imagery, personal story of worship, healing, and writing
• 23:17–24:30 – Activity vs. passivity vs. receptivity insight
• 25:35–27:57 – Communion: a concrete mystery; embodied spirituality
• 27:59–28:29 – Anamnesis: Eucharist as participation, not just memory
• 33:23 – “We were made to sing,” and discussion of hymns’ power
• 36:01 – The formative power of hymns in belief and worship
• 39:00–41:16 – Worship through the lens of the “communion of saints”; acknowledgement of songwriters across the centuries
• 45:58–49:39 – Grief, loss of Brenna’s father, and comfort of faith
• 52:08–52:18 – Story of seeing Brenna lead worship; “going to the throne of God”
• 53:10–end – Upcoming events, album release notes, and closing blessings

---

Episode Tone & Feel

The conversation is warm, vulnerable, hopeful, and rich in practical theology. Both speakers model spiritual authenticity—sharing their struggles, questions, and worshipful gratitude. The integration of storytelling, teaching, and music creates an immersive sense of participating in an ongoing spiritual journey of presence and power.

---

Further Resources

• Bristol House “Presence and Power” Album: Available on Spotify, YouTube, and major platforms.
• Featured Songs: “Presence and Power,” “Psalm 23,” “All Creatures of Our God and King,” “Come Thou Fount,” “O for a Thousand Tongues to Sing,” and others.
• Connect: Seedbed.com/wakeupcall

---

Summary crafted to reflect the detailed and contemplative nature of “The Wake-Up Call”; ideal for listeners seeking spiritual depth, worship renewal, and encouragement in life’s valleys and victories.

Transcript

[Brenna Bullock]

Foreign.

[J.D.]

Jesus, we welcome you to meet with us. Or shall I say we welcome ourselves to meet with you today?

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes.

[J.D.]

You are the host, we are your guests. So would you lead our conversation, Brenna and I, in a way that brings joy to your people, glory to your name, and goodness into the world? Amen.

[Brenna Bullock]

Amen. Amen.

[J.D.]

Okay, Brenna, we'll come around to you in a minute, but we just got to start with. With these words today. As I take the blood and body, I remember your kindness toward me. Love divine and grace unending. This is more than just a remembering. This is love, holy love. Wow, tell me about that. I mean, we're not gonna bury the lead here, Brenna.

[Brenna Bullock]

Okay, jb, I thought you were gonna whistle. Are you gonna give him a little melody?

[J.D.]

There we go.

[Brenna Bullock]

That's right.

[J.D.]

That's it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Really good. That's really good whistling, man.

[J.D.]

That's impressive market for it. But if you ever need it on a record, I'm your guy.

[Brenna Bullock]

You are my guy. Yes. I mean, that's a song that I wrote with some friends called Presence and Power. And it is. It feels like something that the Lord just gave us. And we are yet to fully understand what it is even that we're singing, if that makes sense, you know?

[J.D.]

Yes.

[Brenna Bullock]

It's just continuing to teach me. It's that thing you always say, lord, don't just help me, have me, you know, and that was my prayer in it. You know, that was my prayer in it. I had had really. Just not a really deep understanding of communion. I mean, it was something that I practiced growing up in church and obviously knew that it was a sacred thing, but hadn't maybe encountered the Lord personally through it. And so the song is kind of a journey through that over the course of multiple years of the Lord weaving and kind of laying a groundwork for me. And it's yet to be.

[J.D.]

Yes. Okay, now. Yeah, I'm going to push here. This may be out of bounds, but it's okay. Would you just like sing that bit, that. That kind of chorus, if that's what it would be called?

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, sure.

[J.D.]

Let's just hear it. I just want people to hear this.

[Brenna Bullock]

Okay. So as I take the blood and body I remember your kindness towards me and love Deid grace unending oh, this is more than just a remembering this is love, holy love oh, this is love, holy love.

[J.D.]

Oh, man. Yeah, man, I just. That is so refreshing. It's life giving. It's true. It's powerful. And I just love that. You know, I should probably say what we're doing here today. You know, we're hanging. I just realized how often it's just so easy to bury the lead on everything on life and on podcasts and you do all these preliminary things and make sure everybody knows what you're doing. I'm like, how about let's just do the thing and we'll come back around and touch that. But y', all, this is a wake up call conversation and we are with Brenna Bullock today. Brenna is a lot of things. We'll talk about some of them today. She's a daughter, she's wife. She's a worship leader. She's a. Well, she's a worshiper really. And she stands up and worships and people follow her, so that makes her a worship leader. And she serves at the Woodlands Methodist Church and they've started. I don't want to call it a band. It's really more of a move. It's called Bristol House and they are writing fresh songs for the body of Christ today. And they're also what I love about them. And you'll. You'll know, you'll know this about me if you, if you follow the wake up call is. I love all the songs. The. I love the new songs. I love the old songs. And this is what I think Bristol House does so well is they. They don't blend them, they weave them. They do a weaving of the old and the new and it's tapestry like. And so that's what we're going to talk about today. There's a new record that they've put out called Presence and Power, and we'll tell you where you can get it and listen to it. But even before we get, you know, into that, we've already gotten into it. We've given you, like the special sauce

[Brenna Bullock]

already and your whistling was what it was really. Yeah, that was the sauce.

[J.D.]

But I, I just. Brenna, just kind of give us a little. Just a little backstory on you.

[Brenna Bullock]

Sure.

[J.D.]

Who are you? Where are you from? Where did you come from?

[Brenna Bullock]

Good question. I am the youngest of five children, born in the Houston area in Texas, grew up in a beautiful family, a loving home, a believing home, which was a huge gift, and encountered the Lord in a really tangible way as a young girl. I had been really, really ill, actually, and had this encounter with Jesus when I was about 14 that changed my whole life. And I think, you know, I've talked to many like you, JD and other kind of heroes of the faith in my eyes that have said, you know, seasons of crushing and dependence and lament and suffering, all those things that eventually you can kind of look back in hindsight and you can be grateful for what that has produced. And I think I'm starting to see some of that now in my mid-30s, seeing how all the ways of my childhood and the things that I endured as a small person really began to weave my heart to Jesus and connect me to him in such a formative way. And so I was a normal kid, you know, loved to play sports, loved to be in school, that kind of thing. Started singing around, I mean, from being tiny, but really started, like, singing in church when I was in middle school and right after I'd had that kind of radical encounter with Jesus and then just felt such a call to, as you said, to worship him. And I. I didn't expect that to be a vocational thing. The Lord has invited me into that as the years unfolded. But I can see in hindsight now just where he was in all of it. And so grew up, got married. I have a wonderful husband, Ben. We've been together almost 14 years. Been married almost 14 years. And we have a dog named Texas. He's great. And I have the privilege of serving, like you said, at the Woodlands Methodist Church as a worship leader and kind of overseeing some of our contemporary worship. And then Bristol House, which, you know, you've been a part of, J.D. in some, you know, respects for many, many years. And you've seen kind of the iterations of this. And I loved what you said that it's not a. We're not really a band because there are way better musicians and songwriters and singers than we are. But we. We do want to be faithful to the Lord and live a life of holiness. And we hope that our songs can connect our heritage, our Wesleyan heritage, into the fabric of worship culture today. Because I see that some of that's missing. And you've taught me so much about that. When you kind of, in one of our many conversations, unpacked the idea of hymns being cardio for the soul, I was like, yeah, yeah. And I had no grid for that. I mean, I grew up just in a bit more of a charismatic expression, you know, where people were kind of singing that style. And as I've started to, like, read through the hymns, I'm just getting my world rocked, so.

[J.D.]

Wow.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. That's a little bit of me.

[J.D.]

That's good. So, Brenna, I just want to. Just wanna reach back just for a second here.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

You talked about your experience as a girl and the hardness and the difficulty and the challenge of that. I want you to imagine right now that you're talking to some middle school and high school, maybe young college girls, and just, like, what would you say back to yourself in a way that you're saying to them right now? In their cause, a lot of them are going through hard things.

[Brenna Bullock]

Sure, sure.

[J.D.]

Just speak a word to them.

[Brenna Bullock]

Hmm. Yeah. I think I would say Jesus is. He's worth it. He's worth everything. And there's a lot of things that don't make sense right now, and they will to a degree. But if you can learn to listen for him and lean into him, all those other things kind of start to fade away. And I know it's a simple word that he's worth it, but he is. And he is the best friend you could ever have. The greatest advocate, God our Father, the Spirit of God, Holy Spirit. I mean, there is nothing that he will be absent from if. If you will take the time to see him and to know him and to. To learn to hear his voice, I think is what I would say. And that, like, eventually, you'll. You. You're going to be okay. You're not going to care as much about how you look and what people think about you and all those things. They get better. It gets easier. So. Yeah, that's good.

[J.D.]

That's good. That's. I mean, I just. People are struggling. They are experiencing the very thing you talked about. Crushing.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And, you know, until the olives are crushed, there's no oil, and until the grapes are crushed, there's no wine.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

And the oil and the wine don't make the crushing easier. That's what you're saying? They make it worth it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes. Yes.

[J.D.]

So good.

[Brenna Bullock]

And there is no other way?

[J.D.]

There's not another ways or.

[Brenna Bullock]

Unfortunately, no.

[J.D.]

Well, there's. There are ways of distraction, and, I mean, there's just endless routes that we can try to run away or run around or get under it or get over it, but we just got to go through it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, yeah. And he will be. He will be there, jd, because he

[J.D.]

is there, isn't he? He is there because that's his life, too, isn't it? I mean, you know, that's presence and power talk. Let's talk about presence and power. And that whole, you know, you. You alluded to it earlier, Communion, just so easy for it to be kind of religious emotion. And somewhere along the way, it became a movement for you. Talk about that.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, sure. So just follow me here, because this is. Might seem a little Odd. But this is a safe place. I. So I had. I mentioned earlier that I had suffered with some illness in my childhood. It's kind of still followed me. Rare kind of genetic disorder that has had multiple phases. I got sick a couple of years ago, really sick, kind of out of nowhere, and ended up being in the hospital for close to 50 days and then was recovering. JD came to my house, served me communion.

[J.D.]

We did.

[Brenna Bullock]

That was a moment on. I mean, that was more than a moment. That was one of those things where the Lord was like, take note of this. So thank you for doing that, for coming.

[J.D.]

I remember it so well.

[Brenna Bullock]

And in that time, I was having a really difficult time just drawing blood and kind of dealing with that. And so every evening they would come in at 2am, 4am, 6am to check. And it was this huge ordeal for me. And what it was was really the Lord was inviting me to heal some deeper traumas around that from my childhood that I didn't even know. But all I could do was recite the 23rd Psalm. So I would lay there, they would come in, they would say, we're going to do it. It's a very. I mean, this is a very, like, simple thing to draw blood. It's not an intense thing, but for whatever reason, it just sent me into a complete spiral. And so I would just recite that Psalm as they would do it. And I mean, I did that for weeks. And then I came out of that, was recovering, was healing, and wrote a song with some friends around Psalm 23. It's called Psalm 23. It's one of our. One of the songs on our previous record. And it was this idea that I'd seen the Lord prepare a table for me there. And I thought, okay. And then the years went on, and I had another encounter at a new room conference where I had some friends praying for me. And they said, you know, we kind of see this image of you going into your prayer closet, shutting the door, and you're on an operating table. Does an operating table mean anything to you? Well, yes, it means a lot to me. It's triggering from years of being in the medical system, and it doesn't, you know, it didn't honestly have a good feeling associated with it. It had a very scary feeling. But what I decided to do was, was do that. So I would go in my guest room, shut the door, lay in the dark on the floor and asked the Lord to come. And I remember telling him. I was wrestling with this because I was like, this feels like such A waste of time. Like, what. What am I doing here? This is silly. And I heard him say, what do you do in an operating room? And I said, nothing. And he said, exactly. You let the physician do the work. So I laid still in the dark. And I did that for weeks, and still don't really know what's come from that. It was an act of faith. I know it seems odd.

[J.D.]

No.

[Brenna Bullock]

But it was a meeting place. You know, it was a meeting place between me and the Lord. And sometimes it would feel like I was herding cats. Like, I want to say this to people that are listening. Sometimes it would feel like nothing was happening. And then other moments, it was like the Presence was just. Just right there. And I know you know way more about this than I do, JD but in spiritual practice, it's like, we're all beginners, right? We're all. Every time you go before the Lord, you're going in faith. And so I had this, like, operating table moment, and then he began to speak to me. So it's table. It's. He's prepared a table in the presence of my enemies. Now he's got this operating table moment. And now he says, I want to talk to you about my communion table. And I'm like, okay, tell me. And I started reading John Wesley's kind of theology around his belief, around the sacraments. And I just. I just couldn't get enough. I wanted to so deeply understand everything from intinction to, like, what is happening. There's purpose behind all of it. And so I just started writing some of presence and power and wanted a song to sing in a Wesleyan tradition that had this through line that clearly the Lord cares about tables. Right? And I knew that it became a place of encounter for me. I still don't think I barely scratched the surface of what it actually is. And then I finished the song with some friends, and it was actually with my brother. We were finalizing kind of the last parts of the. Of the final verse. And he's the one who said, bread, a presence, cup of power. I think it should be that lyric. And then the song just kind of came. That was just. It just came together. And so it's been something we've been singing in our church, teaching our church. It's teaching me. It's a gift that I think is for one reason. And the Lord's like, no, I'm doing this in you. So it's a communion song, but it's

[J.D.]

full of the story of communion. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It is. Coming. It is coming out of coming into union. And.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Yes. There's so much there. Brenna, isn't it the most joyful thing in the cosmos when a song comes together?

[Brenna Bullock]

Oh. And every time you're just like, thank you, Lord. Like, thank you, Lord, you know? Yeah.

[J.D.]

I was talking to Chris Tomlin the other day, and he was just saying. And he's like, man, I'm just so. I'm so thankful for the songs the Lord has given me. He said, I just couldn't believe he gave me holy forever. He said it was just so. It's a gift. And when it comes together, it's like, this is. This is for the church.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes. Yes. Can you. Jd Say again? I want. I want you to tell me about Communion. Like, I. Like. I want to. I want to know, because I got nothing. Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

[J.D.]

Well, you know, you said help me earlier, that whole thing about going into the room and just laying on the floor. Okay. So, yeah, I think in our faith, we want activity. We want to be able to do something, and we learn sooner or later that it's not about activity. The measure of faith is not about our doing things. We're not trying to do things to get God to do things. Okay. And so it's easy for the pendulum. It'll start swinging over to passivity. And passivity is just like, well, I don't do anything. God does everything. And, yeah, you realize that that kind of leads to what is kind of history might call, like, quietism. And it's just, you know, nothing. You don't. You're passive. And then you realize, like, well, I don't think it's passivity either. And it's not something in between those two things. It's not like holding those two things. Intention.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

I believe it's holding those two things in union. It's. It's the activity. Not of us, of Jesus. It's the activity of Jesus.

[Brenna Bullock]

Hmm.

[J.D.]

Meeting. I don't know, maybe the passivity of our brokenness. And it's coming into this word that I would call not activity, not passivity. Receptivity. Receptivity, right.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes. That's taking notes.

[J.D.]

That's what's broken in us is our receivers, and that's what he's healing in us. Hey, receive. Can we receive? It's a gift. We can't. Nothing we can do can make it happen. Just sitting there passively is not participating. And so we're leaning in. And that's what's so amazing about the Lord's Supper.

[Brenna Bullock]

Okay.

[J.D.]

If you, if you sit out there in the pews and you don't go forward, you're just passive. You get. You're getting nothing. But nothing you could do could make any of that happen. You're going with your hands open. And he is saying, my body given for you. You know, that's what he says in the Lord's Supper. Take and eat. Right. He is. He's giving us something. And it's. It's not. This is the amazing thing. It's not just a spiritual thing. It's material. It's food, the most basic substance of life. And he's saying, my relationship to you isn't, like, material. It's not spiritual over here and material over here. It's the union of the material and the spiritual, the seen and the unseen.

[Brenna Bullock]

Wow.

[J.D.]

And I want you to know me like, you know, food and drink and to. And the crazy thing about food and drink is, like, all you got to do is eat it and drink it. It does everything else.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes, right. Yes.

[J.D.]

It's. It does every. He.

[Brenna Bullock]

He.

[J.D.]

He is the worker and the working, and we are the receivers, the recipients. And then he gets the glory when that blows up in us. And that's. That's commute. It is such a mystery, but it's also. I call it a concrete mystery. It's, it's, it's. I love that it's concrete. You're going to eat and drink something here, right? I love how in your. In your song, you open the whole song by talking about. This is more than remembering. And by that, what I think you're getting at, I mean, there's all these views of communion, and they're very super complicated and confusing, like memorialism, like just. Just something that happened once. And we're just going to kind of. We're going to salute it. We're going to remember it. Right. And you're. You're saying, no, it is that, but it's way more than that. And even when Jesus says, do this in remembrance of me, his word, there is anamnesis. You know this anamnesis and what it means? It's like you're going through the portal. You're going, the. The thing is happening again because it's like it never stopped happening. That bread and that cup, that bread of presence, as your brother said, in that cup of power, it is eternal now. And you're partaking of divine substance.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And you're receiving it. And.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And so the remembering anamnesis is like everything that happened in that Room on that night is pulled right all the way forward through 2,000 years. Almost like time travel in reverse. We're not going back. It's coming forward.

[Brenna Bullock]

Come on. Yes.

[J.D.]

Coming forward. And he's coming right into our little room and our little upper room in our little house and.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right, right.

[J.D.]

And he is standing there mysteriously in the person that's standing there with the bread and the cup. A person just like he was God in disguise. And that's communion, isn't it? It's.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, yeah.

[J.D.]

And you can't even think about all that. And so all you can do is go up and try to just try to receive more than you did last time.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And that's why Wesley took it every day. Every day.

[Brenna Bullock]

Seriously. Yeah. Yeah.

[J.D.]

It's funny how sometimes churches are like, we don't want to do it too often because it's so special. That's kind of like, you know, I'm not going to really kiss my spouse because it's such a special thing. We're just going to do that, like, every now and then, like, once a month. Yeah, once a month. I mean, communion. Right. It's the kiss of God, isn't it?

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes. Yes. And it's amazing to me when, you know, sometimes I'll get to help and serve people.

[J.D.]

Yes.

[Brenna Bullock]

And when they come forward and you say, the body of Christ broken for you, the blood of Christ shed for you, people just weep.

[J.D.]

Yeah.

[Brenna Bullock]

And I mean, I do.

[J.D.]

Yes.

[Brenna Bullock]

And it's like it's speaking to something deeper, like you said. It's like it's not even coming in, just through my eyes. It's like spirit to spirit. There's.

[J.D.]

Yeah.

[Brenna Bullock]

Something. Yes, there's something. A concrete mystery there, just like you said.

[J.D.]

And, you know, and. And then so I. I've. I keep taking this even further. It's like.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

He essentially is saying these three words.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Me fe for you. He's like, you give me you. I give you me.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Right. This is the. This is the exchange.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes.

[J.D.]

And all of a sudden, you're more you than you ever were before because you're full of me.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

And when he says, do this in remembrance of me, he is saying, yes, show up at this altar, at this table, we. With these elements. But he's saying, this is your whole life. You are going into the world now. And everyone you encounter, you're saying, jesus is saying in and through you. Me for you. I am for you. Isn't that a song you sing? He is for you. He is for you. He is. I Remember, that's the 23rd Psalm, isn't it?

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Repeating it. He is for you. He is for you. He is for you.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And that's what he's doing through us in the world. Me?

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

For you.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. Yes.

[J.D.]

And so it's. It's all at once the thing you're doing in the house of God, in the sanctuary, that becomes the thing you're doing in the streets. And that. That's what we pray in. In the liturgy. We pray, make them be for us the body and blood of Christ, that we may be for the world the body of Christ redeemed by his blood

[Brenna Bullock]

and fire.

[J.D.]

It's a move. That's the move.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. Yeah. 100.

[J.D.]

That's the move. And so, man, where do we go from here? Brenna, There's. I mean, a couple.

[Brenna Bullock]

We need to take communion. We do.

[J.D.]

I know. I didn't even think about it.

[Brenna Bullock]

We should have.

[J.D.]

And we're having it.

[Brenna Bullock]

We are, but.

[J.D.]

And people are feeling that with us here. Just a little bit of a. A pivot here.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Why do we need to sing hymns, you know, every day? Brenna, I sing hymns. No, I'm not a. I'm not a singer. I'm a worshiper. And I'm just convinced that. And I know you believe this. We as human beings, it's mystical. We were made for music.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes.

[J.D.]

We were actually made to sing. We weren't made to be singers. We were made to sing because there's something about singing that activates the fullness of human personhood. I mean, angels sing. Animals don't sing. We are. We are between angelic beings and animals. We are human beings. We're divine image bearers. A little bit lower than the angels. We're a strange, unique being made for the capacity to hold God, to carry divine presence. And there's something about singing. I don't know. What is it? And then. And then hymns like, why. Why hymns?

[Brenna Bullock]

I mean, honestly, jd, You. You're the. You're the expert. But I will say what I've learned from you that, like. Okay, so I brought some hymnals, but this was my great grandmother's hymnal. The old Methodist hymnal, 1968, was dated in here. And my mother gave this to me recently, which is just so special for me to have. But as I have begun, just barely begun to read through hymns, kind of study it. Especially in the last project that we made, we made a collection of. Of hymns, and we kind of had categories in it that the Lord just. We felt like was leading Us. So we had some hymns that we really didn't touch at all, especially from a lyric standpoint. Maybe a little bit of melody change, a little something. And then we had kind of something we call Hymn Plus. So we would have a hymn and maybe write a refrain or something that would just give it a little bit of oomph. And then we had some original songs like Presence and Power that we felt like were hymn like in nature either from like a sonic standpoint, what you're hearing musically, but more importantly, the theology behind what we're singing was the goal. When I read these hymns, I mean, I'm not hearing any other.

[J.D.]

That's a great Redeemer's praise right there.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, shout out. This is a little. A little plug. I do want the red one too, so I need to wear it when I read these. J.D. i mean, I'm not reading any lyric anywhere that is carrying the message that hymns carry. And I would be foolish to say, even as Bristol House, that we've somehow figured this out. We have not. We are trying to be stewards of our heritage and we're trying to sing and write songs that carry the same weight. But it's transformational. I mean, we know it renews our mind. It solidifies, you know, the truth. It gives us language to sing things that we don't yet believe, which leads to transformation, which leads to, you know, like I said, the renewing of the mind. It gives you something to anchor to matters what we say, it matters what we sing. It matters. It matters how we sing. It's like all these things are important and it has changed me as a worshipper. Not even as a worship leader. As a worshipper, it's. It's changed me. And, yeah, I don't even know. I feel like I don't even know how amazing this is, you know?

[J.D.]

Well, it's capturing. It's capturing, you know, there's our lifetime and then there's two millennia.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Of the church.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

I remember one time I was. I was doing a podcast years ago with Tom wright, you know, N.T. wright, and we were talking about worship and. And I. I was just asking him about, like, the balance of songs. He said, because, you know, it's very easy to go in church now, and you're really going to sing a band of songs. They're good songs, but they're coming from about 20 years out of 2,000 years. And he said it was quite challenging. He said, you know, you should not sing more than one song from one century a given worship service.

[Brenna Bullock]

I got work to do.

[J.D.]

Like, that's pretty challenging right there. But I'm, you know, I, I, I'm still challenged by that, that, that conversation happened probably 20 years ago, and I'm still challenged by it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Sure.

[J.D.]

And I, I get the point he was trying to make that we are, we're also, we're not just us here. We're not just people living, you know, between 1967 and 2026.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

We're the communion of saints.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes.

[J.D.]

And they are worshiping God.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right, Right.

[J.D.]

And I often ask this question about a worship service. Like, if St. Francis showed up here today, would he recognize anything we're doing? Would he feel at home here?

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

Or, say John Wesley, would he or Julian of Norwich, would she feel at home here? Would anything kind of signal to her? Like, because you know how it is when you're, you're in a gathering and somebody in a song comes up that, you know.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

You feel like you part, you're part of it, you belong. Yes, I know that song. That's our song.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

And anyway, that's, that's so good.

[Brenna Bullock]

We had one experience like that on the record. JD we did a version of All Creatures of Our God and King.

[J.D.]

Yes. You know, love that one.

[Brenna Bullock]

Saint Francis of Assisi. And then the melody was put to it in 1700s. And then we have this version that's from 2025.

[J.D.]

Is it Mia sings that one.

[Brenna Bullock]

She is. So she's very special.

[J.D.]

She's bright. She, she has brilliance.

[Brenna Bullock]

Oh, J.D. and she is an incredible songwriter. Wow. And she doesn't really know it yet. And that's, that's the best part. But we had one of our spiritual directors was there during the recording, and so she had taken notes and gone and kind of written through all of the hymn history. So she brought to us in our kind of pre capture time, like, hey, these are the songs we're singing, and they're from this time. And she just wanted to read and acknowledge the names of the people that wrote them and brought them and carried them throughout the centuries. And that was such a profound moment for us. And it felt. To your point, not that we had created something really cool, but we were a part of something that was way beyond us.

[J.D.]

Yeah.

[Brenna Bullock]

Way beyond us. And that we hope it would be our greatest honor that anything we made in 2025 and beyond 26, that it would mean something to someone.

[J.D.]

Yeah.

[Brenna Bullock]

You know, years. Hundreds of years from now. But that, that was truly, I mean, to your point, just, I had not experienced anything like that until we started to really get in here and look at this, and it was like, this is. I felt the Lord say, this is really important. Like, this isn't just a marketing strategy to give you kind of a cool angle of approach or, like a visual roadmap or a creative one. This is about a story that I've written that is way beyond anything you could ever really comprehend. Humbling. So humbling.

[J.D.]

Yeah. We're just stepping into a little bitty sliver of time.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. Tiny.

[J.D.]

And. And it's great to see what you guys are doing. You know, people say, man, there. There's so many songs being written. I'm like, well, when. When the Lord is stirring, when awakening is churning.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

A sign of that are songs. Okay. Charles Wesley wrote over 6,000 songs, and that was in the midst of the Great Awakening in England and then in America, he. He wrote 6,000. Are y' all up to that yet?

[Brenna Bullock]

No, but I did feel like I did feel the Holy Spirit convict me and just say, like, I. I think he's challenging me to write, you know, because I believe it was Charles that wrote, like, 50 lines of lyric a day.

[J.D.]

Right.

[Brenna Bullock]

And I think about that, like, could I actually do that? And. And I feel that invitation from the Lord, but I'm scary to admit that. But now I've done it on a podcast, so.

[J.D.]

Well, you're gonna. Your next record is gonna be all Communion songs. How about that?

[Brenna Bullock]

Oh, let's go.

[J.D.]

There's so much. And that. That's what he did. He wrote tons of hymns on Communion.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

And. And I feel like Brenna, too. I'll just lay down the challenge. I feel like there is a new.

[Brenna Bullock]

It's.

[J.D.]

It's a new type of hymn form that's emerging.

[Brenna Bullock]

Tell me more.

[J.D.]

Well, I mean, I think we see it kind of a little bit, like, in the song. I don't know the name of it, but it's. It's. The Australian worship leader. In the darkness, we were waiting without hope. What's that?

[Brenna Bullock]

King of Kings.

[J.D.]

King of Kings. Okay, That's. That's a new. It's adjacent. It's an adjacent form. It's very much hymn, like, but it's also not metrical, like.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yes.

[J.D.]

And yet it's. It's. It's able to freight something that a. More a chorus, cyclical song can't really freight, and you need them both. But we need more of those kind of songs and those structure songs. That. That's a piece of it. I think that that is a. That is a pointer toward It. And there are others like it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. Yeah. Why do we need this?

[J.D.]

Well, like you said, I mean, if you. If you're going to get in shape, you got to do. You got to do leg day. You got to do cardio.

[Brenna Bullock]

You got.

[J.D.]

You got to do, you know, lifts.

[Brenna Bullock]

Right.

[J.D.]

The muscle of the spirit. The Holy Spirit wants to put muscle in the soul. And that's. That's what. That's what songs do, you know, all at once, they are expressing our faith while they're forming our faith. It's happening simultaneously and. Well, Brenna, you know, we. I do want to remember this. We talked about the communion of saints and those that have gone before us. And I'm just so. I just am. I don't know. I just have this awareness that's growing in me of just how close they are.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Right now. And there's been a new entrant into the communion of saints in your family. We just marked the. The. The. The movement of. I don't want to call it the death. It is the death. The transition. I don't like that word. It's the movement.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

He moved into the communion of saints. And I just want to acknowledge he was such a great man, and he was such a great father and friend to so many, and he was so well celebrated. But we prayed and we prayed and we prayed and we did. The Lord said, I got better.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thank you. It's, you know, it's still pretty fresh. My dad passed the day after Thanksgiving this past year, and it's obviously every child's, I think, kind of worst nightmare. Knowing that it's inevitable, but just never wanting to even face that reality.

[J.D.]

Yeah.

[Brenna Bullock]

And I'll just say two things about it. One, still very sad. Miss him all the time. I'm grateful that I miss him because I had a amazing father and a beautiful relationship, and I'm so grateful that I had that. That. That is my story. But I'll say, when my siblings and I went to say goodbye with our mom, it was all pretty sudden. And so we were able to go and see his. His body. And my mom just took our hands and looked at us and said, this is why we believe. And we were able to pray and sing and cry and say goodbye, and. And I've just seen the Lord. I've seen his goodness in this. And I felt his nearness. And I recognized that I spent months. Because my dad got sick. It was all very quick, but I spent months just anticipating with so much fear and anxiety and what Is this going to be. And. And the Lord can handle that. You know, he could be with me in it, but I almost had just totally dismissed him from being a part of. Of my Father's movement in a way. Like, I didn't see that he was also going to be incredibly intentional and care in that time too, if that makes any sense.

[J.D.]

Yeah, it does.

[Brenna Bullock]

And so I've just encountered him in my. In my worst fear, I can tell you that fear became a reality and Jesus was there.

[J.D.]

Wow.

[Brenna Bullock]

And. And it doesn't. It. It doesn't take the. Like you said, the oil and the crushing. You know, it's like the oil and the wine. You don't get it without the other. It doesn't negate the pain of it. But I see the Lord's hand in it, so. Yeah. So thank you.

[J.D.]

Amen.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

I feel like. I feel like we need. You know, we need songs that lift that up. We need songs that cause for people to long for fullness of his presence. For heaven. For new. For. For heaven. Yes. Then for new creation.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

New heavens and a new earth. We need. You know, it's so many of the hymn structures, they'll go with that fourth verse and they'll complete the cycle and they'll go all the way to the throne of God, to heaven. And I feel like we could use some songs that all four verses are about that.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

That are just sort of contemplating and exploring the divine mysteries of. Of something we can't even comprehend. How high, how wide, how deep, how long I has not seen, nor ear heard, nor mind conceived. The things that God has prepared for those who love Him. Right. We need to. We need to sing.

[Brenna Bullock]

That sounds like we need to write some songs, sweetie.

[J.D.]

I know. Come on. I miss it. I love writing songs, and I feel like I'm a thousand miles away from it right now.

[Brenna Bullock]

All right, well, we'll make that happen.

[J.D.]

Well, Brenna, I just remember the first time that I. And we'll close here. I remember the first time I ever saw you. It was at one of our earlier New Room conferences. And. And you were one of the worship leaders. And I had never seen you or met you, but there you were. You probably were, I don't know, 28, 29 years old, and just this exuberant, like, person. And you had these Adidas tennis shoes on up there, and you were just like. You were just moving. And you know, sometimes when. Sometimes worship leaders can be distracting.

[Brenna Bullock]

Sure.

[J.D.]

And they're moving. I'm like, oh, no, she's drawing us In. She's going somewhere in those tennis shoes.

[Brenna Bullock]

You better believe I'm trying.

[J.D.]

Taking us with her. We're going to the throne of God. And I'd never seen. I mean, I was like, is she gonna start running? She is. She's seeing something.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah. Yeah.

[J.D.]

And it was causing for me to see it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And I'm like that, Lord, I want to meet her. That's what we need more of in the church. That kind of, you know.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Embodiedness is the word. Embodies. You're still doing it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Still doing it. Still wearing the tennis shoes.

[J.D.]

You still got the tennis shoes. Well, I'm looking forward to being with you all on Good Friday this year.

[Brenna Bullock]

So happy, so ready.

[J.D.]

The Woodlands.

[Brenna Bullock]

Come on.

[J.D.]

And we'll put the link to that how if anybody's in the area, we'd love you to join us on Good Friday night. I'm gonna. Brenda's gonna be leading worship. I'm gonna be.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

Getting to preach. And it was. It was, I don't know, 1998. Wow. We first started that service out of the harvest. The. That. That worship service. They were doing a cross raising and communion for many years there at the pavilion. And then we. We started that first time, it was Chris and Bob Swan, and we went and got Beth Moore. She came down and was the preacher. It was unbelievable.

[Brenna Bullock]

Wow. That's amazing.

[J.D.]

So I'm looking forward to that.

[Brenna Bullock]

We are, too.

[J.D.]

And, Brenna, peace to you in the grieving, in the.

[Brenna Bullock]

Thank you.

[J.D.]

In the morning, you're. You're being comforted, but there's. You're just going through it.

[Brenna Bullock]

Yeah.

[J.D.]

And we love you and we appreciate Bristol House and what's going on there. And we're going to help people know how to get. They can go to Spotify, they can go to YouTube. It's all out there.

[Brenna Bullock]

All there.

[J.D.]

Just search for Bristol House, that song, if you want to hear that song she sang for us. It's called Presence and Power, and it's kind of the title track of the whole record. And it carries so much of the essence of it. And that record is filled with just majestic. It's got the glory of pottery, it's got the doxology. It's got over a thousand tongues to sing. Come thou fount of every blessing all creatures of our God and king. I should be on the marketing team. Brenna.

[Brenna Bullock]

Hey, watch out. We're gonna invite you.

[J.D.]

It's good. I keep it on repeat.

[Brenna Bullock]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[J.D.]

So, yeah, everybody, thanks for joining us for this conversation. It's been a rich one for me. Maybe my favorite now. And, yeah, we'll see you on the field.