Strength In Suffering with Shelbi Shutt - Wake-Up Call Conversations

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Wake-Up Call

Episode: Strength In Suffering with Shelbi Shutt – Wake-Up Call Conversations
Host: J.D. Walt (Seedbed)
Guest: Shelbi Shutt
Date: June 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode of The Wake-Up Call centers on the transformative power found in suffering, faith, and the invitation to behold Jesus anew. Guest Shelbi Shutt shares her journey living with progressive muscular dystrophy, describing how suffering has deepened her dependence on God, expanded her ministry, and invited her community to slow down, savor, and find strength in Jesus—even in the midst of pain. The conversation highlights the paradox of finding “strength in suffering,” the deeper meanings of joy and hope, and introduces Shelbi’s upcoming Advent devotional, “Behold.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shelbi’s Journey: Formation Through Movement and Suffering (00:53–06:37)

• Background: Shelbi and her husband, Jordi, have moved between coasts in pursuit of ministry, theological training, and open doors God has provided.
• Vocational Shifts: After years as a youth pastor with a focus on spiritual formation, Shelbi’s progressing muscular dystrophy prompted her to step back. She heard God say, “make margin for the more” (06:37), leading her to embrace a season of writing and speaking.
• Accepting Weakness: Shelbi reflects on living with a progressive diagnosis since age 16. The physical limitations intensified, but so did unexpected ministry opportunities whenever she surrendered more fully to God’s invitation.
• “It is a contact sport.” (04:09, J.D. Walt on youth ministry’s demands)
• “I heard the Spirit say, ‘make margin for the more.’ And I was like, I don’t know what the more is...but just felt like the Lord say, step out and I’ll show you.” (04:32, Shelbi Shutt)

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2. Disability, Suffering, and “Superpowers” (07:10–12:44)

• Paradox of Loss and Gain: Shelbi’s bodily decline paralleled God’s invitation to “more,” creating a paradox—becoming less physically while experiencing greater spiritual capacity.
  • J.D.: “Where there’s a disability, there’s a superpower. There is actually an increased capacity.” (10:32)
  • Shelbi: “Every moment of pain is an invitation...to know Him more deeply.” (11:38)
• Suffering as Invitation: Not all suffering ensures growth, but it's always an invitation into deeper relationship with God and recognition of eternal realities.

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3. Squaring Faith with Difficult Circumstances: The Reality of Despair (13:04–17:41)

• When Circumstances Don’t Match Faith: Discussing Habakkuk and its raw honesty. Faith doesn’t require circumstances to improve or for suffering to have an obvious reason, but there can be meaning found.
  • “There’s meaning that’s different from a reason, isn’t it?” (12:38, J.D. Walt)
• Shelbi’s Darkest Season: In 2019, a decade after diagnosis, physical decline forced her coping mechanisms to fail, leading to anxiety, depression, and a sense of despair—even as a pastor.
• “I have been there...The lowest I have ever been in my whole life was in 2019...It got so dark so fast that I hit a true rock bottom.” (14:02, Shelbi Shutt)
• Breakthrough in Suffering: Her path toward healing wasn’t a quick fix. The turning point was an authentic encounter with the love of Christ—beholding Jesus, not just as a giver of gifts, but as the gift.

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4. A Personal Encounter: The Love of God Made Real (18:12–22:19)

• Shelbi’s Vulnerable Moment: During inpatient rehab, Shelbi refused visitors; only her husband came weekly, traveling thousands of miles for just an hour’s visit.
  • The Lord spoke to her through her husband’s extravagant love: “How much more do I love you?” (19:49)
  • “I just felt overwhelmed by the Lord being like, I choose you there...It is by grace...I chose you, and not when you’re at your best...but when you’re at your worst.” (20:06, Shelbi Shutt)
• From Platitude to Encounter: This became more than words—God’s presence became reality amid brokenness.

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5. Insights on Strength, Faith, and the “Superpower” of Suffering (22:55–27:30)

• Movemental Insight: J.D. calls the ability to bring hope in the valley a “superpower”—something God manifests through those who endure suffering with faith.
  • The experience of weakness enables unique spiritual insight and the capacity to witness to eternal things.
• Isaiah 40 Paradox: The linchpin is “those who hope in the Lord renew their strength” (24:27).
  • Shelbi: “Faith is not calling a bad thing good. Faith is looking square in the reality of the pain and suffering and saying, I know the one who weeps with me.” (25:29)

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6. Rejoicing in Suffering: Joy Redefined (27:30–31:04)

• Choosing Joy: Habakkuk’s “yet I will rejoice” as a form of “yetting”—turning toward God despite devastation.
• Strength Not from God but as God:
  • J.D.: “I learned to stop saying, ‘Jesus, help me.’ And I started saying, ‘Jesus, have me.’” (28:39)
• Joy Uncontaminated by Circumstance:
  • J.D.: “Pure joy is joy uncontaminated with happiness.” (30:44)

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7. Transformation Through Beholding (32:15–39:14)

• Behold as a Spiritual Posture: The practice and theology of “beholding”—seeing into what’s truly there, not just what’s visible.
  • Shelbi: “He’s here. If we don’t slow down long enough to savor that truth...He’s among us.” (32:11)
• Transforming Familiarity into Fascination: The Advent season’s danger is routine and busyness.
  • Shelbi: “Familiarity really is one of the great enemies of fascination.” (34:54)
  • True transformation (in faith and relationships) comes from being fascinated and beholding, not just knowing about something.

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8. Introduction to “Behold”: The Advent Devotional (34:16–42:17)

• Project Genesis: Shelbi’s Advent devotional emerged from a desire not to let routine rob the wonder of the season.
• Theme: “Behold: An Advent Invitation to Slow Down and See Again.”
• Beholding Unlocks: Wonder, gratitude, revelation—antidotes to spiritual apathy and distraction.
• Translation Note: J.D. regrets that many Bibles translate “behold” out of existence, when it’s a summons to truly wake up and witness what God is doing.
  • J.D.: “The word behold...means wake up, sleeper...It’s happening.” (41:40)

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9. Jesus’s Way of Beholding: A Final Image (44:03–46:38)

• Jesus Beholds the Suffering: In John 5, Jesus beholds the disabled man at the pool. As J.D. notes, “Beholding him, beholding you—that’s a thing.”
• Being Seen in Suffering: Jesus is not distant, but present in our pain, inviting us to wellness that goes deeper than physical healing.
• Choice and Surrender: The question “Do you want to get well?” remains a challenging, healing invitation.
  • J.D.: “And what you have is beyond healing—it’s wellness.” (45:55)

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Memorable Quotes

• Shelbi Shutt (04:32): “I heard the Spirit say, 'make margin for the more.' ...Just felt like the Lord say, step out and I’ll show you.”
• J.D. Walt (10:32): “Where there’s a disability, there’s a superpower. There is actually an increased capacity.”
• Shelbi Shutt (15:00): “The lowest I have ever been in my whole life was in 2019...All of the ways that I had coped with the reality of my disability stopped working.”
• Shelbi Shutt (20:06): “I just felt overwhelmed by the Lord being like, I choose you there...not when you’re at your best and all cleaned up, but when you’re at your worst.”
• J.D. Walt (28:39): “I learned to stop saying, ‘Jesus, help me.’ And I started saying, ‘Jesus, have me.’”
• Shelbi Shutt (25:29): “Faith is not calling a bad thing good. Faith is looking square in the reality of the pain and suffering and saying, I know the one who weeps with me.”
• Shelbi Shutt (34:54): “Familiarity really is one of the great enemies of fascination.”
• J.D. Walt (41:40): “The word behold...means: Wake up, sleeper. Wake up. It’s happening.”
• Shelbi Shutt (32:11): “He’s here. And if we don’t slow down long enough to savor that truth...I hope I never get to a place where I don’t weep over that reality.”

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Important Timestamps

• Shelbi’s background & diagnosis: 01:03–04:09
• Hearing God’s call for “more” in limitation: 04:32–06:37
• The paradox of loss and invitation to more: 07:12–08:39
• Shelbi’s darkest season & breakthrough: 13:59–22:19
• How suffering can lead to deeper knowledge of God: 22:55–25:29
• On “pure joy” and rejoicing in suffering: 30:28–31:04
• The practice and power of beholding: 32:15–39:14
• Introducing Shelbi’s Advent devotional: 34:16–42:17
• Final reflections on Jesus beholding us in our suffering: 44:03–46:38

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Conclusion

Shelbi’s story offers an authentic witness that faith shines brightest in weakness, suffering is an invitation—not a guarantee—to deeper union with Christ, and that beholding Jesus transforms our lives beyond measure. Her upcoming Advent devotional “Behold” grows from this lived theology, inviting all to slow down, see again, and wake up to the transformative presence of Christ—regardless of circumstance.

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For further resources or to find out more about the Advent devotional, visit Seedbed’s website.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Wake up sleeper. Rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you. J.D. walt here with another Wake Up Call conversation. Thanks so much for joining us. Very thankful to have Shelby Shut here today and you'll learn a lot about her. One of the things we'll talk about is Shelby is going to guide our community and a lot of communities through the season of Advent. This year we're going to be releasing an Advent reader picks up December 1st, goes all the way through Christmas. It's called behold, which is such a great word. And we'll talk about that some. But Shelby, welcome. And I'd love it just to start if you would just kind of give people a sense of your 41 1.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, JD, thanks for having me. I'm grateful to be here. I love the Wake Up Call. I love this community and have been really ministered. Yeah. Through the work that you guys are doing at Seedbed. So grateful to be here. Yeah. Me and my husband, Jordi, we live here in New York City. We've been here for a year and a half, but we're originally from Louisville, Kentucky. So both born and raised in Louisville, Kentucky. We met when we were in high school. From there we moved to Southern California and did our training in theology at Biola University, moved back to Louisville for a brief moment, worked at the church that we grew up in, which was such a gift. And then from there we went back to the west coast and served on staff at a church there for seven years. And now we're back on the East Coast. So it's been a wild journey of back and forth between the coasts and not a journey that I could have mapped on my own, that's for sure. But we're here in New York now. My husband serves as the pastor of worship at Church of the City, New York. And yeah, this is the move here kind of kickstarted a new season of life and ministry for me. Really felt an invitation prior to the move to give God like a full yes to some of the open doors. Yeah. That he was bringing. Bringing into my life. And so this last year and a half of ministry has looked like given a full time yes to speaking and writing and getting to partner with some different ministries that I love and I've been deeply formed by. And so it's been a journey, but it's been a good one.

[B]

Yeah. And you. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You.

[B]

You were a speaker at our New Room conference a couple of years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're coming this time.

[A]

Yes. That's the plan. Yes.

[B]

Oh, that'd be awesome. And yeah, talk to us about who you said some doors have opened and I'd love to for our people to know about that and the places you're contributing and things you're developing.

[A]

Totally. Yeah. Really the journey there started back in 2023. I had been a youth pastor for lots and lots of years, specifically have a real heart for formation. And so all the work I was doing in the youth space was primarily as it related to what does it look like to love and lead young people in such a way that gives them a framework for being formed into the likeness of Christ. And so that was the main thing that I was doing. But I'm a. I have a limb girdle muscular dystrophy, which is a progressive disease. I was diagnosed when I was 16. Non treatable, non curative. It is the progressive deterioration of. Of all the muscles in my arms and legs. And so as much as I loved youth pastoring, I was getting to a point in my life where my body was having a hard time just keeping up with the demand of what that is.

[B]

It's a contact sport.

[A]

It is a contact sport. Let me tell you. My come to Jesus moment was I was leading a youth night and I was standing talking to someone behind this like curtain and a middle school boy came through on a scooter and just ran right into me. And as I'm laying there on the ground, I think I was like, I think this is. I think it's done. I think I'm done.

[B]

It's over.

[A]

It's over. But anyway, kind of through that season of discerning, like God, I still have such a heart for young people. But since that you're kind of, yeah, asking me, inviting me into something new. What does that look like? And I just heard the spirit say, make margin for the more. And I was like, I don't know what the more is. And it's not in my personality to just like, you know, I like order like most people. I like knowing the next, you know, I'm not. My husband operates the like risk taker in our relationship, but just felt like the Lord say, step out and I'll show you. And so yeah, in that season of ministry, went to my lead pastor and our board of elders and just kind of said like, hey, I feel like the Lord's inviting me to create some margin. What if my role shifted? And when it shifted, I went part time and they blessed it. They invited me to become the teaching pastor of the church, but at a part time capacity, capacity and the week that I went part time every week for a month straight, a new speaking or writing opportunity would come. And it's not like I had a website or a platform. It was just like I would get a call or I would get an email. I'm like, what is this? And so just started to lean in. And a lot of those opportunities, apart from writing, we're getting to go and speak and share a bit of my story of, you know, what does it look like to have joy in the midst of a body that is daily deteriorating? What does it mean to have hope? What does it mean to live a life of power that's made perfect in weakness that we hear about in the scriptures and things like that? And so, yeah, it's kind of just been like one. Yes at a time and really holding it before the Lord of, like, what's the invitation in this season? So, yeah, I don't know if I'll do this forever, but I just feel like there's a window where the Lord is saying, I'm asking you to steward your voice for the sake of what I want to do and speak in a generation. So trying to lean into that. Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I just. I want to back that up just a second. I feel like we need to do like a slow motion instant replay. You said you heard the Lord say, make margin for the more.

[A]

For the more.

[B]

Meanwhile, you were experiencing a physical limitation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A sense of body and not embodiedness, but a body that was becoming less.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so that's really. It's really amazing. It's very poignant.

[A]

Yeah. I don't even know if I've thought about it, jd, until you said that, of comparing those two realities, that there's this physical reality of literally, I'm becoming less, my muscles are literally becoming less. And yet the Lord is saying, I'm inviting you into the more in the midst of that. And that feels, in a lot of ways, like, I feel like one of the gifts I'm getting to operate in right now is being a living picture of that paradox in a lot of ways.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's like I just hear this text in Second Corinthians 4 that says, Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Inwardly, we are being renewed. It says, day by day.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it says, we fix our eyes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. Because what is seen is passing away.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But what is unseen is eternal.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

A word.

[A]

It is a word you've Got me excited. I want to, like, jump through the screen.

[B]

And the truth. The truth is, you know what? We are all outwardly wasting away. You just happen to know it more than the average person.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

And so there's a sense in which you can participate with revelation at another level than the average person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you have a wheelchair now, right?

[A]

Yes, yes, I do.

[B]

And I know that was probably a long journey because this is a slow moving, progressive thing. And I have a good friend who has something very close to what you have. Scott Lees. I think you've met him.

[A]

Yes, I have.

[B]

He's on our board at. He's on our board at Seedbed.

[A]

I didn't know that. Yes. Such a good man.

[B]

I've walked with him for 20 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've watched that wheelchair navigation and that negotiation.

[A]

Totally. Yes.

[B]

And so I was thinking about you and this. And you know, the world wants to use the term disability. That's such a. It's a disability. Or before that it was handicapped.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Handicap then became disability. And I started thinking, like, why? Well, there's truth. I mean, there's truth there.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

That's real. But there is a sense in which. I'm asking you, is there where there's a disability, there's a superpower.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There is actually an increased capacity.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Or the opportunity for that, I would say. You know, I don't think that suffering or navigating life with a disability necessarily means that you're going to awaken and get to unpack and mine the treasure that I have found and believe there's still more for me to find in the reality of navigating this, you know, Know. But I do think that every, you know, every season of suffering, every moment of pain is an invitation. I'm not saying that that's why this happens, but I just do think that in God's kindness, there is an invitation in which we get to know him more deeply. And I think so often it. It's a result of. Because we become aware of how desperate we really are. You know, we become of that which is eternal versus that which is fleeting. You know, to reference the verse that you shared earlier. So I think it is a uniqueness

[B]

of seasons of suffering, but that can feel so distant.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[B]

Because what you're dealing with and have dealt with, everybody deals with this at some level. I mean, we have circumstances that are telling us a different story.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

And. And yet we. We have. Although I don't know. There's a. There's a version of faith that says your circumstances really should be great.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

And then there's a version of faith that says there's a reason for your circumstances.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think probably not. But you know what? There's meaning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's meaning that's different from a reason, isn't it?

[A]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And then, then there's this, I don't know, a text that I've spent a lot of time with and I'm sure you have to. It's. It's Habakkuk. Oh, the fig tree does not bud there. There are no grapes on the vine.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Though the olive crop fails, the fields produce no food. No. No sheep, no cattle, no chickens. No. It's like the circumstances are zero.

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

And it's. The outlook is bleak and the pain is high.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Then he says, yet I will rejoice in the Lord.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And in case we missed it, he repeats it. He says, I will be joyful in God, my savior. So you're talking to people out here today who, who cannot square their circumstances with their faith and they also can't find joy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What do you say?

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Familiar journey.

[A]

Very familiar journey.

[B]

You know, you find despair in that situation.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And I've been there. So I think the first thing I would just say is like, you are not alone and full stop, you're not alone. And I think I would just have so much empathy of like, it is such a hard and painful place, a despairing place when you feel completely disoriented by the reality of the circumstance and the pain that you lose perspective. And I have been there. Yeah. I mean, the lowest I have ever been in my whole Life was in 2019. It was 10 years post my diagnosis. Diagnosis. And I was experiencing a massive shift in the decline of my body. You know, for a lot of years I still presented very much as able bodied. And this was a season in my life in which I was falling so much more. I was needing so much more help with day to day things. Just the reality of being a person with a disability was in the foreground. It was no longer just kind of in the background. And in that season, essentially, long story short, all of the ways that I had kind of coped with the reality of my disability stopped working. And a lot of those coping mechanisms for me were achievement, just being a high achieving, high producing person. And all of that just began to fall apart. And as it began to fall apart, anxiety and depression, slotted right in. And I was buried beneath it. Like, I, you know, it's so hard. You know, I'm serving as a youth pastor at the time. I'm counseling and journeying with young people who are navigating self harm and suicidal ideation. And then what felt like all of a sudden I was too. All of a sudden I am warring up against things that I had never encountered before. And it got so dark so fast that, like, I hit a true rock bottom and, like a real low. And it's really hard when you're in that place to not believe that this is your new normal. And then when you start to think it's your new normal, you start. Yeah. To feel like, well, I don't think that I can endure this. And so I was in an incredibly dark, dark, dark, dark place. And truly, you know, people when I share about that, they're like, so what changed? Like, what helped? And I wish I could give people like, you know, the three step magic formula. There's just not one. But a true turning point for me was encountering the love of Christ in that place of, like, beholding. I could weep just talking about it, but truly, like, beholding the presence and beauty of Jesus. And there was something that began to shift in my spirit of like, oh, yeah, like I love God not just for what God can give me, but for God himself, that, like, the reward of this life and the next life is Jesus. And I have access to him right here, right now. So do I want my circumstances to change? Absolutely. But the shift came in recognizing that I have access to the living God. He will never leave me or forsake me. And yeah, that just continues to, like, buoy my hope and anchor my joy.

[B]

It became more than a platitude. It became, I mean, like, can you remember, like, how that was like, another awakening of kind of.

[A]

Oh, it was a second encounter with the gospel, truly. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

And did that, how did that happen? I mean, were you, Were you reading texts? Were you praying? Were you just crying?

[A]

Great question. Yeah. I mean, just to go a layer deeper in honesty, when I had that moment, which it was a moment, and then like so much of life, it's an unfolding of moments. There's moments of breakthrough and then there's the journey. So it's both. But in that season, I was actually living in an inpatient rehab facility in Tennessee. My life truly had bottomed out and I needed some extra resources and. Yeah. So ended up saying, okay, I need to do this program. You know, a lot of what was coming to the surface is how I had bypassed the reality of the pain and the grief and the loss that I felt around being disabled. And in that place was really kind of uncovering this. This reality that I didn't want to face, which was essentially, if I have to live life disabled, I don't know if I want to live at all. Like, I had to actually say that and get honest about that, you know? But so that's where I was at at the time. And every week while I was there, I had one hour where friends and family could come visit me. But I did not tell anyone about this. I didn't want to see anyone. I was the worst version of myself. Like, jd. I didn't even want to be around me. Like, I didn't want to see anyone. I want it to just, like, go away, essentially. And you would have been my husband. Yeah.

[B]

At that time, you would have been 26. 26. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. 26 years old. And so the only person that knew I had these visitation hours was my husband, because he dropped me off. Now, mind you, he's living in Portland, Oregon, at the time, so opposite side of the country. He knows that I have these visitation hours, and every week I was there, he flew thousands of miles to spend one hour a week with me. And there would be, you know, times where we wouldn't even speak. We just didn't even know what to say. Like, our life just felt like we were barely holding on. But I had this one moment after he had left where I felt like, Jesus say, like, look at how much he loves you. Like, him choosing to come is not economical. Right. It's not practical. It's costly, and it is extravagant. And I just felt Jesus say, how much more? How much more do I love you? Like, recognize where you are. I literally felt like there was nothing good. I could see no good in myself and in my circumstances. And I just felt overwhelmed by the Lord being like, I choose you there. Like, there is nothing. It is by grace, through faith that you have access to relationship with me. Like, I chose you, and I choose you not when you're at your best and all cleaned up, but when you're at your worst. And it was just like the light of his love in that moment just, like, enveloped me, you know? And it just became real. It became something that I had known and had a conviction about, but encountering in it, encountering the reality of his love in that moment, yeah, it changed me.

[B]

And it was mysteriously wrapped in the visits of your husband totally through the

[A]

Sacrificial love of another.

[B]

You know, that is so profound. And was this in the make margin for the more time?

[A]

No, it wasn't. It was before that. It was before that. Yeah.

[B]

This was the, this was the. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for sharing that, first of all, because that was, that. That's going to the Lord. He. He's witnessing through that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, it's, it's. That is itself. What you just shared was kind of an icon moment that you're looking at the thing and then all of a sudden you just begin to see through it.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

And that's what happened there in your life. You, you, you saw through this love of your husband and all of a sudden you're seeing something way larger.

[A]

Totally. Yes. True.

[B]

Wow. And I think, you know, frankly, I was thinking about you and I was thinking about where there is disability, there is capacity. And the capacity that. I think it's a kind of superpower. The Lord works. I don't want to say he gives you, but he manifests through is. I would call it movemental insight. And it's an, It's a kind of insight that comes down into the real valley with someone after the. There's no vine, there's no grapes and no chickens and no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No grain. And the circumstances of life have become unbearable. This, it's like this movemental insight comes in and says, you're gonna run again. Yeah, you're going to run. You're gonna, you're gonna. In fact, in this valley, I'm gonna take you up on wings like eagles. And you're going to begin to see the field like you couldn't see in the valley. And then I'm going to bring you down gently. And then you're going to learn to run and not grow weary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Walk and not be faint. Right, that's.

[A]

That's in the linchpin. JD it's so funny. The text that you're referencing, Isaiah 40, was what I was meditating on this morning, and you and I didn't have this conversation prior to. But what is the linchpin of that? The linchpin is the line that says, those who hope in the Lord, renew their strength. Those who hope in the Lord. So it's like, yeah, one of the, you know, surprising gifts of seasons of suffering and life with long term disability is that it frees you of attachments and it allows you to see that which is eternal. Anchor your hope there and then your strength to both enjoy and savor this life along with enduring the hardship you find there, the strength that's actually required. And you also are no longer disillusioned by what so much of the world says you need and is required in order to live life to the full. It's like, no, I've encountered the one who is life and life to the full. And I can be so honest. It's not about minimizing the pain. It's actually a commitment to reality. It's a commitment to say this is bad. And Jesus does not say it's good. Like, faith is not calling a bad thing good. Faith is looking square in the reality of the pain and suffering and saying, I know the one who weeps with me. I know the suffering servant. I know the one who is able to take, you know, what was once a symbol of the greatest shame, humiliation and devastation in the world, the cross, and transform it into the means through which we experience life and life to the full salvation. So it's like, if God can do that through the cross, then I don't want my limited perspective and expectation to cause me to miss what might be possible by letting God fully into the reality of my pain. It's like, that's why I think people. I'm a part of this small group of girls who lead a ministry called Even if they minister to other girls with disabilities. And I am just so convinced. I tell them this all the time. But I think that people with disabilities are prophetic witnesses, some of the most profound who walk the earth because they are bearing witness to that which is eternal and more real and more true than anything else on the planet. And when people like that live with and awaken to the joy of the Lord, that is their strength, others can't help but look and long for what it is you have, you know? So it's like, I'm not sitting here saying that life with a disability is fun or easy. It's not. I have deep days of grief and sorrow, but I also have a deep well of joy that like is so real, you know?

[B]

Yes. You have learned to rejoice in the Lord. And so here's the interesting thing too, about where that Habakkuk text goes. He. He says, yet I will rejoice in the Lord. I call that yetting. Yes, that to. You have to. To turn with that yet, even if right. But if not yet, I rejoice in the Lord. I will be joyful in God my Savior. Then he says this, the sovereign Lord is my strength.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just realized through my own journey, like, you know what I just really wanted him to give me strength.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just get me through it. And he's like, no, I'm. That's not how we're going to do this. Yeah, I'm going to become your strength.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

That's different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's. That's when I learned to say. I learned to stop saying, jesus, help me. And I started saying, jesus, have me.

[A]

Yeah, that's it.

[B]

Just have me. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because I'm gonna have another problem I'm gonna need help with. I actually need a complete reorg.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that is. It's so real. You know, I look back on so many of the prayers I was praying and what I was journaling during that season, and, you know, it's not a bad prayer. It was just like, help get me out, you know?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Those are honest prayers. Like, they're not bad prayers. But similar to what you're saying, like, I definitely had a moment where there was this shift from, like, God, you know, get me out of here. Like, just. I just want the suffering to be removed. And then this shift of, like, oh, it's actually, as I move through this, I'm encountering who you really are. Like, yeah. And so it doesn't mean I cling to the experience of suffering. You don't make an idol out of the suffering, but you just begin to awaken that. Like, oh, yeah, real strength, real life is in you. And if this is. And that's why I think, you know, verses like, yeah. Rejoice in the Lord. I'll say it again. Rejoice. When Paul talks about, you know, rejoicing in suffering, it's. He clarifies. He says, why? Because the testing of your faith. Right. It's not. You're not rejoicing in the suffering itself. You're rejoicing in the fact that this trial, you know, it is producing, it is deepening. It's increasing my awareness of who God really is. And that is what I can take joy in, you know?

[B]

Yes. And that's. That's James. He says, consider it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Pure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pure joy. And I. I was reading that. I'm like, oh, well, you know what pure joy is? That's joy uncontaminated with happiness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's pure because there's no apparent reason, because you're going through a horrible test, a trial.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's. That's just such a juxtaposition, and that's what you're. You're witnessing to here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you've almost come out of Your chair. And. And that's the amazing thing about. I mean, you're. You're. You became animated. You became like, yeah, that's the. That's the Lord. That's the spirit of God. But then, you know that. That Habakkuk text, he keeps going. He says he makes my feet like the feet of a deer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He enables me to go on the heights. And I'm like, we're witnessing that right now. Shelby's. She's just gone up the mountain. I don't know if you rolled her wheelchair up there or what, but she's up there. Yeah, she's there. And she's. She's testifying. She's. And you know what? The thing. Interesting thing about what happened there is like. Like, you're not. You're. You were testifying about the Lord.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You weren't just sort of testifying about, like, I once was blind, but now I see. No, it was like, him.

[A]

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

It's. It's. It's Jesus. It's.

[A]

It is.

[B]

He's here. He's here. That's. That's.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that's it. J.D. he's here. I'm like. I'm pretty sure that's why the Advent devotional is called Behold, because it's like, he's here. And if we don't slow down long enough to savor that truth, like, I hope I never get to a place where I don't weep over that reality. Like, he's here. He's among us. Like, we will one day know him in all his fullness, but we have access to him in the here and now. You know, and all that we go through in this life, the highs and the lows, are an invitation as we journey with him through them, to know him more deeply. That is the prize. He's the prize. You know, He's.

[B]

And I was thinking about that. Behold. It's to behold is to see into what you've been looking at.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Right. It's like the icon. It just. Everything kind of disappears in a way. And all of a sudden, you're. You're seeing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're seeing beyond sight. You're hearing beyond ears. And so, yeah. Talk more about, like, how this came about, because. Yeah. I mean, we're Many people who are. Watch. Are having a good summer probably. Right. Right about now. And we're not wanting to do the Christmas in July thing. Not yet, but we are. You know, Shelby has written. This is why I wanted you to get to know her, because she's She's. I don't know, she's captured some of this journey into a 25 day, you know, walk to the manger. And she's called it Behold. Talk about, like, how that came about and what's.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The tag for the subtitle is Behold An Advent Invitation to Slow down and See Again. And I started writing it during advent of 2025 and I just felt confronted with, like, wow. As soon as I feel like I'm starting to, like, settle into, you know, what this season is, I feel like it's ending and I'm just. I felt this, like. Oh, like, I don't want to just go through the motions, you know, I've grown up in church my whole life. I've been a pastor for the last 10 years, and I just felt this conviction of like, yeah, familiarity really is one of the great enemies of fascination. And if we become overly familiar, I think there's familiarity on one hand and then there's just distraction and busyness. And I feel like both of those come to a head for a lot of people during the season of Advent. Like, if you've grown up in the church for a long time, you can just kind of be lulled to sleep by like, the same story over and over. Or just the pace of this season, which is. Is always pulling us in the direction of more in excess can just rob you of, like, what the invitation actually is. And so all throughout the Advent story, you hear the word behold. It's punctuated all throughout it. And it's this biblical invitation to slow down, to stop, and to give your undivided attention. And yeah, I just think that there's so much that we could say about that. But I think that beholding is the antidote to getting consumed with the apathy that often comes from familiarity and the busyness of.

[B]

Okay, so I'm going to challenge you. You said something earlier. You said, familiarity is the enemy of fascination. And you were about to say, behold is the opposite, and you kind of see, spun out. I want you to work on that second phrase with the, with the sort of like, elegance of that first one, because that's going to be a good one too. But that familiarity is the enemy of fascination. It's interesting. I don't, I don't know if I've ever heard it in my hearing, but when you said it, I was making the connection between familiarity and family. And I think those words are connected. Familial. Fami. Family. Familiarity. And how it's interesting how Advent And Christmas takes us into the family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And invites the reawakening of fascination.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's so good. And it's through beholding and fascination that we're transformed. Right? We know this. It's like information doesn't equal transformation. It just doesn't. But beholding, being, becoming fascinated, that's how the human heart works. You know, this is James K.A. smith's work. You are what you love. You know, the heart moves toward that which it is fascinated with. And this is so true in marriage and relationships. Right. You know, if you're a young guy and you just start dating, your parents might have been telling you for a long time to, like, get some things in order, start wearing deodorant, and it just takes a really long time. But the moment he comes fascinated with a woman, it's like all of those things that he's been hearing and hearing and hearing, they start to shift, you know, it's like it awakens things within you. You begin to change, and you're transformed. And, you know, this is so true in marriage. Like, I don't want a marriage that just lasts a long time. I want a marriage that's full of love and life and joy. And I think that so much of that comes down to resisting familiarity, of choosing to say, I get to do life with this person. I hope I never grow, you know, I never lose sight of the wonder of that. You know, who is this person? And the more I approach my friendships and my marriage with that perspective of, like, what is this gift of a person and who are they? You know, the more I actually get to discover and experience, and I'm changed by it. But the moment we start to assume we know, it just becomes an obstacle to that wonder.

[B]

Wow. I was just looking at my. I was just remembering a text my mom sent to our. We call it the cousins group.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the grandkids and my sisters, and. And she just starts in the middle of the afternoon. My dad. You know, my dad is really fading. His memory is just going by the day, and he knows it. It's so painful. And my mom is the caretaker, and she was. She just in the middle of the afternoon. And I know she's. She's struggling, and she says, david, Walt is a gift, a treasure, actually. I knew that the minute I saw him. Him. Grabbed him right up. And then she keeps going. Actually met his parents first. After spending quite a while with him, David finally came home. He never really had a chance from then on. And then she says now we're sitting on our fabulous porch, 80 and 85 years old. My, how time flies when you're having fun. And. And they're not having fun right now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But she's beholding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was something. When that came across the.

[A]

Wow. And that's the gift of it. It's like it doesn't matter what season of life you find yourself in. The practice of beholding. It unlocks wonder, it unlocks gratitude. It unlocks new revelation. It's something that we never graduate from. Right. Yeah.

[B]

Well, you know, the fascinating thing to me is, and I've really, I've written about this and I've been, I've become critical of Bible translators, thankful as I am for them. Most modern Bible translations have translated out that word I think is Idou in the Greek language. And they, they either translate it out or they'll say something like, see, look, look, or look. And I'm like, no, that. That misses it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's usually being spoken by angels.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And what they're saying the word behold to me, and the way that I see it, it means wake up, sleeper.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wake up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's happening.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we are drowsy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or the familiarity has blinded us from the fascinating. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, this is just a little primer here on Advent in the middle of the summer. And it makes you like, we got a lot to look forward to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, Shelby, I want to thank you for, for the labor of writing a book, which is very lonely and agonizing and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's final. You, once you put it down, you know, you want to change it, but it's actually on paper and, and it's. This going to be a blessing. And so thank you for that. And I know on this, on this little conversation, there's. We've planted a lot of seeds and a lot of people. There are pastors out there who are like, yeah, that's, that's going to be for us this, this December. We're going to do that. And there's, you know, there, there'll be a lot of resource that comes around this. So, so we'll put all that in our notes today. But I do want to thank you for who you are and your witness. And, you know, I think I'll close with this. I think a lot about Jesus coming up on that day at the pool of Siloam, and that place is filled with disabled people. And there's that one man, and it tells us like, he's been out here for a Lot of years. It's been a 38 year journey he's been on. And Jesus comes up to him and it's like he gets to know him, obviously, because we know these details. He sees him to start with. He beholds him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's. That's it right there. Beholding him. Beholding you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's a thing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And I think there are people that are listening to this who you need to know that he's beholding you in the middle of what you're dealing with.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

He's. He is locked in. He's not watching you from afar.

[A]

No.

[B]

He's very close. And I just sense that he wants you to know that. You know, people may be telling you God has a reason. I don't know about that. But God has meaning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There is deep, profound meaning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In the suffering. Suffering and then that. The, the. But the thing is, as you said earlier, like a disability, a horrifying, difficult circumstance is not a ticket to everything getting better. And joy. It's not a ticket to joy. Because remember what, what does Jesus say to that man? You remember?

[A]

No. Remind me.

[B]

He says, is so harsh. He goes, he says, do you really want to get well?

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

He says, do you really want to get well? And you got to that place and you're like, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I either want to die or I want to get well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you came out on the side of the. And, and what you have is beyond healing. It's wellness.

[A]

Yeah. Wholeness.

[B]

There's a wellness that's much deeper than even just a physical healing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so to, to people who are sitting in that kind of pain telling that you want to get well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just. And leave it with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just see what, where it goes and be encouraged by Shelby's witness today.

[A]

Thanks, jd.

[B]

So, yeah. Well, I appreciate you joining us and everybody who's being a part of this. After we've, we've shared this and this has been a good conversation and it's going to help encourage a lot of people. So we'll see you on the field.