Podcast Summary: The Wake-Up Call – "Weird Old Testament Laws?"

Host: Andrew Forrest (filling in for J.D. Walt)
Date: February 5, 2026
Podcast: The Wake-Up Call (Seedbed)
Episode Theme: Wrestling with the "weird" laws of the Old Testament and discovering how they reveal the heart and values of God.

Episode Overview

In this episode, guest host Andrew Forrest tackles a section of Exodus filled with famously difficult and "weird" Old Testament laws. Forrest reframes these laws, not as outdated or purely baffling, but as revelatory of God's character—especially when seen through the lens of loving justice and care for the vulnerable. The conversation is both honest and pastoral, inviting listeners to engage more deeply with challenging Scripture passages and to consider how these old laws still shape our present sense of right, wrong, and societal justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Through Difficult Bible Passages

Forrest emphasizes how many Christians struggle with the latter half of Exodus due to its long lists of strange and sometimes harsh laws.
He admits his own difficulties:

"Have you ever tried to read through the Bible… all of a sudden you are brought up short by the weird laws and strange details that occur in the second half of Exodus. What do we do with these things?" (03:14)

2. Why the Old Testament Laws Matter

Forrest suggests the laws actually make him "love God more" (03:45), explaining that these texts reveal what matters to God and are foundational to our moral understanding.
He frames the central purpose of these laws:

"All of what we believe about right and wrong and morality comes from the Bible. But at some point, Israel had to be instructed about morality. And that's what's happening in Exodus..." (05:03)

3. "How God Gets Egypt Out of Us" – A Mini-Series

Forrest introduces a miniseries on Exodus, explaining that it's not just about physical liberation (leaving Egypt) but also internal transformation (removing Egypt’s influences from the people).
The laws are seen as spiritual formation:

"The first part of Exodus is about God getting the people out of Egypt. The second part… It's God getting Egypt out of the people." (05:57)

4. Classification and Purpose of the Laws

Forrest divides the laws into two main categories:
1. Keeping people away from serious sin and error
  - Examples: sorcery, bestiality, idolatry (Exodus 22:18-20)
  - These are called out as behaviors so destructive to the community that they warrant the ultimate punishment.
2. Protecting the vulnerable
  - Examples: care for sojourners, widows, and orphans (Exodus 22:21-24)
  - Forrest notes the revolutionary nature of God’s concern for the weak:
    
    "God is instructing the people of Israel that all people are valuable to him, even the poor and the weak. This is a moral revolution that God is giving his people." (06:57)

5. What God’s Laws Reveal About His Heart

Forrest insists these regulations are not arbitrary, but rather reveal God's priorities:

"This is what the Lord is like. And his laws reflect his heart." (07:44)
God's dual concern: keeping people from self-destruction and ensuring care for society's most vulnerable.

6. Relevance for Today

Emphasis on the continued need for societies to reflect these divine priorities in their laws and values.

"We should care desperately about the weak and the poor and should seek to be a society in which justice is available for everyone. At the same time, we should seek to be a society that instructs its members on what sorts of behaviors would make human life impossible." (07:33)
Forrest prays for American society to reflect such justice and wisdom (08:00).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the challenge of engaging with the Old Testament:

"I know that these Old Testament laws can kind of be really off-putting and strange, but when you see the heart behind them, I think they're actually really beautiful." (08:51)
On God's radical care:

"With just this short passage, you can learn a lot about God's heart for humanity and what a good life ought to look like." (07:13)
Direct prayer for listeners and the nation:

"Lord, let your will be done and your kingdom come. Here we pray for America. Help our laws to reflect your values, Lord. Help us to be a just nation and a wise nation." (08:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:00–02:45 | Andrew Forrest introduces himself, reflects on the challenge of hosting, and prays.
02:46–03:45 | Scripture reading: Exodus 22:18-24.
03:46–05:02 | Addressing the weirdness of Old Testament laws as an onramp to understanding God’s heart.
05:03–05:56 | Explanation of the miniseries focus: "How God Gets Egypt Out of Us."
05:57–07:32 | Two main categories of laws and their societal impact.
07:33–08:00 | Takeaways about justice, the care of the most vulnerable, and God's vision for community.
08:01–08:47 | Concluding prayer for personal and societal transformation.
08:48–09:00 | Encouragement to see beauty in the Old Testament laws and to apply their spirit today.

Journal Prompts for Reflection

Which of today’s laws is most needed in our society?
Are you more uncomfortable with laws about the poor/weak or those about behaviors leading to death? Why?
Have you ever thanked God for the Old Testament laws shaping our moral landscape?

Closing & Benediction

The episode finishes with the singing of "God of Grace and God of Glory," a hymn aimed at reinforcing the longing for wisdom and courage in living out God's vision for humanity (08:00–09:00). Andrew Forrest wraps up with a brief encouragement to carry the heart of these ancient laws into daily discipleship.

For further listening:
If you find yourself uneasy or puzzled by Old Testament laws, this episode invites you to slow down, look deeper, and discover God’s love for both holiness and justice in every corner of Scripture.

Transcript

A (0:00)

Foreign Sower Nation it is Thursday, February 5th, in the year of our Lord 2026. I am Andrew Forrest and this is your wake up call. And this, by the way, is a lot harder than it looks. J.D. walt, who's our normal host for these wake up calls, makes it look so easy every day. But it is not easy. I felt as if the first few days I was figuring out how to do this. I want to be warm, but also polished. Say something helpful, but also relatively brief. Stick to the usual format, but also make it my own. All this to say thank you for sticking with me and giving me a chance. I'm the senior Pastor of Asbury Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma and the author of the new book Love Goes first, which is about what we need to do if we are going to reach the people who don't think like us, vote like us, maybe even who hate us. I was with JD over the weekend at a conference we were both speaking at and it occurred to me that he just might be the hardest working man in show business. So I'm glad to be able to give him a few weeks off from the wake up call. You know how hard it is to do something every day forever. So I hope these few weeks when I'm filling in will give him some space to plan out what he wants to bring us next. Lord, thank you for taking us out of Egypt now. Lord, please take Egypt out of us. Let's go. Wake up sleeper. Rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you. So we pray. Jesus, I belong to you. I lift up my heart to you. I set my mind on you. I fix my eyes on you. I offer my body to you as a living sacrifice. Jesus, we belong to you. Praying in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Our scripture reading for the day is Exodus 22:18 24. Hear now the Word of the Lord. You shall not permit a sorceress to live. Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death. Whoever sacrifices to any God other than the Lord alone shall be devoted to destruction. Ye shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him. For you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Ye shall not mistreat any widow or fatherless child. If you do mistreat them and they cry out to me, I will surely hear their cry. And my wrath will burn and I will kill you with the sword. And your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless. The Word of the Lord have you ever tried to read through the Bible you move along pretty well through Genesis in the first half of Exodus, and then all of a sudden you are brought up short by the weird laws and strange details that occur in that second half of Exodus. What do we do with these things? Can I tell you something? The Old Testament laws actually make me love God more, and I want to tell you why. In the weeks leading up to Lent, I'm doing a little miniseries on Exodus called How God Gets Egypt out of Us. Let me explain. In my church, we're calling 2026 the year through the Bible. And all of us at Asbury Church are using the One Year Bible as we work through the Bible together. We are currently midway through Exodus, and so I thought it would be good to offer a series of reflections from that reading. As we will see today, we are not in the part of the Bible that most Christians find helpful or meaningful. And that's exactly why I wanted to write about it. I think all of the Bible has something to say to us if we are willing to hear it. Over the next few days, we'll be looking at the laws and regulations that make up so much of the second half of Exodus. I expect these are not your favorite passages, but I think they're beautiful and I can't wait to talk about them with you. The first part of Exodus is about God getting the people out of Egypt. The second part of Exodus, however, is perhaps even more important. It's God getting Egypt out of the people. As we shall see, the lessons and the laws are there to teach the people about God's way of righteousness and to form them to carry on that way to the nations. All of what we believe about right and wrong and morality comes from the Bible. But at some point, Israel had to be instructed about morality. And that's what's happening in Exodus as God first gets the people out of Egypt and then instructs them as to the right way to live. This means that the laws in Exodus teach us about what matters to God in general. We see two main categories in this section of Exodus. First category, keeping people away from serious sin and error. Second category, protecting the vulnerable. In the first category, we have verses 18 to 20, those weird ones I read at the beginning. You shall not permit a sorceress to live. Verse 18, verse 19, Whoever lives with an whoever. Verse 19, Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death. Verse 20. Whoever sacrifices to any God other than the Lord alone shall be devoted to destruction. These actions are so destructive to the community that those who take them face the ultimate Punishment, death. That's why those laws are there. The second category, see verses 21 to 24. You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him. For you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Ye shall not mistreat any widow or fatherless child. If you do mistreat them and they cry out to me, I will surely hear their cry, and my wrath will burn, and I will kill you with the sword. And your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless. Well, God is instructing the people of Israel that all people are valuable to him, even the poor and the weak. This is a moral revolution that God is giving his people. With just this short passage, you can learn a lot about God's heart for humanity and what a good life ought to look like. All this to say the laws in Exodus tell us what should matter to us. We should care desperately about the weak and the poor and should seek to be a society in which justice is available for everyone. At the same time, we should seek to be a society that instructs its members on what sorts of behaviors would make human life impossible. And all of this is what God cares about. This is what the Lord is like. And his laws reflect his heart. And to see his heart for humanity revealed to keep us away from serious error, to care for the vulnerable, makes me love God all the more, and I'm grateful. So Lord, let your will be done and your kingdom come. Here we pray for America. Help our laws to reflect your values, Lord. Help us to be a just nation and a wise nation. Keep us from the sins that lead to death, Lord, and bring about spiritual awakening in our land. Lead us not into temptation today, Lord, and keep us far from the ways that lead to death. All this we ask through Jesus name. Amen. Some journal prompts which of the laws in today's reading is most needed in our society today? Are you more uncomfortable by the laws about the poor and the weak or the laws about behaviors that lead to death? Why? Have you ever thanked God for the Old Testament laws that undergird our modern conceptions of right and wrong? So I know that these Old Testament laws can kind of be really off putting and strange, but when you see the heart behind them, I think they're actually really beautiful. And I hope that they inform your faith and love for God and your discipleship walk today as well. Today we will sing God of Grace and God of Glory a Great hymn, hymn 45 from the seed bed hymnal, Our Great Redeemer's Praise. We're going to sing verses one and two. I love the sim. I love the melody. It kind of gets you going. It's like, better than caffeine. Goes like this. Sing it together.