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The WarPlan Podcast
$150K Jobs & Lighting Legacies: The War Behind Building a Real Business w/ Ryan Lee
00:44:18
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- [00:05]
Josh
Wake up. Your competition is asleep. It's you against the world. And if you want to win, we need to get a few things straight. Your business is a mental war. Your success is a mental war. And making money is a game. And the game of money starts in your mind. This podcast exists to help you weaponize your brain through advanced marketing mindset and money concepts. To have what others don't, you need to know what others won't. Your future fortune awaits. Welcome to the War Plan podcast. Hey, my friend. Welcome back to the War Plan Podcast. How the heck are you? I hope you're living the dream, achieving your dreams. I hope life is going good for you. We're over 50% of the way through the year. I can't believe it. I have a special episode joined by my friend, Ryan Lee. He's one of those people that has a name, Ryan lee. That probably 2.2 people have the same name, but he's one of a kind of. Okay. Honestly, he's amazing. I have two friends named Ryan Lee. This one, he's gotta be my favorite, okay. Because he's not only comes from the service business, he's super smart. He's a family guy. He's made millions and bajillions of dollars, and he helps other people do it too. Ryan runs landscape lighting Secrets and he helps really, any service company add a high ticket backend offer to their business. In this case, landscape lighting. But he's just a super heck of a guy. He's super old, like me. His daughter's going to college. He's also an inventor of the window cleaning business or something. Ryan, how are you doing? And how did you invent window cleaning?
- [01:41]
Ryan Lee
Dude, I'm so excited. Thank you for having me on your show. I'm a big fan. First time on the podcast, but we've known each other for years now and excited to be here.
- [01:51]
Josh
Yeah. Well, you jokingly said that you invented window cleaning. And then you told me you actually sort of thought you did in 2002 when you saw a gas station. Gas station squeegee. And you're like, I seriously did money.
- [02:05]
Ryan Lee
So we were, we were like engaged to get married, Lindsay and I. And I was like, crap. Well, I only make, like, you know, $0 an hour, so how do I make enough money to get married? And I literally, I was like, okay, well, let's clean windows. I had heard of the term, but I'd never heard of a window cleaning business. But. And so. But I know at the gas station they have the squeegees and the scrubbers. So I literally, I looked in the yellow pages and I looked for a cleaning store and it said, okay, here's the address. Go down to State Street. I go in there, I'm like, you guys have those like gas station, like squeegee scrubber things? And like, no, but what, what, what are you looking for? And I was like, the, the squeegee scrubber. Like I want to clean windows for houses. And they're like, oh, we don't have that, but we have th. This and they take me and it's like I could like hear the music. Like, oh, like the whole aisle is just lit up. And I'm like, wait, they have a window clean. Like there's a scrubber and a squeegee and a scraper and a holster. And like there's a whole thing, there's a whole industry. I literally thought I was inventing this new concept of like, I'm going to be a window cleaner. And it turns out it was around for like decades.
- [03:01]
Josh
There is a competitor in, near the Flint, Michigan area. When I had my company that was 100 years old. Believe it or not, in flint There's a 100. I don't, I'm assuming they're still there. The wheels fell off the last few years before I sold my company. We sold a contract from them from General Motors. So they hated our guts. But it's still cool. That was 100 year old business. Crazy awes. Yeah. And, and then I think you, your landscape lighting secrets was the first like coaching program for landscape lighting in the world. I think you started doing that years ago. Is that, is that the case?
- [03:35]
Ryan Lee
Regarding that, I, I mean, I tell people that I make up a lot of my own stats. So like, for example, I do. I am the host of the number one landscape lighting podcast in the world. But then I'm like, listen guys, I'm not that big of a douche. It's the only landscape lighting podcast in the world, you know, so.
- [03:53]
Josh
Take us back. I mean, you're super humble, so I know that it makes you uncomfortable, but I'm just going to put you on the spot instantly. You built a multimillion dollar business in Texas. Tell us about that story. And specifically what I'm looking for is the parts that remind people you weren't handed everything on a silver platter that you're an imperfect, flawed human, that you have your own mental anxieties, struggles, setbacks, being stabbed in the back or maybe the front by employee, like paint a picture of that story, because that business success is what kind of set up everything that you're doing now. But I know it wasn't easy. Can you tell us about that?
- [04:31]
Ryan Lee
Yeah, I mean, how much time you got? No, I'll tell you. It started off like the American Dream. I was so excited. I was like, holy cow. I can't believe I'm doing my own business. I partnered with my brother, and we were going to do a window cleaning business, but he told me about this crazy thing called landscape lighting. And he's like, yeah, I did these two jobs. They were $4,000 each. And I'm like, wait, what? Someone paid $4,000 to. To light their house? Like, that doesn't even make sense. It seriously didn't make sense. But I was like, listen, if. If we can go sell, like, a $4,000 lighting job instead of a 250 window cleaning job, like, I would just rather do that. And so that. That's how we got started. And I was like, this is gonna be amazing. We put numbers on a piece of paper. We're gonna be millionaires in the next, you know, 18 months. And that obviously didn't happen. Like, we. We just worked our asses off. It was so much hard work. But you know what? Those first two years, I didn't care. I was out doing demos till late at night, talking with people. I was. I was making money, but I wasn't, like, succeeding, I would say, you know, yet. But it felt good because I was doing the American Dream. This. I was an entrepreneur. I wasn't working for the men anymore. Like, I got to do this thing. And so the first two years was definitely honeymoon. It was like, this is so cool. And then I realized I woke up one day, and I was like, wait a minute. My friends who have a real job have more vacation time than me. They have, like, sick days. They don't have the stress that I do. Like, I remember being. I got to go home at 5 and do nothing and watch TV and be lazy, and that was gone. So now reality hit, and that's when. That's when the learning started, you know, that's when pain.
- [06:13]
Josh
Pain is an excellent teacher.
- [06:15]
Ryan Lee
Yeah, it hurt. It hurt so bad. I remember thinking. I remember LinkedIn was actually around then, and we. I started getting, like, emails, and they're like, hey, we have this job opportunity. It's $60,000, and, you know, plus benefits. I was like, oh, sweet. Like, I. I was like, maybe I should just go get a job, because it was that hard. Like, it was, you know, we one step forward, two steps back, started to make some money and then where did it go? And hire someone. And then all sudden they don't show up on Monday, or you find out they're stealing wire from you, or they're stealing jobs, stealing clients, doing work in your wrapped company van, generating money for themselves. And that, that's when it was like, dude, I don't believe in the American dream. Like, I just want to go get a job and I don't care about getting rich. I just want to be home at 5 o' clock and make $60,000 a year.
- [07:17]
Josh
I think the typical, especially owner, operator, but small business owners kind of daydream about what you just said, like once a week. Or they fantasize about selling their company. And because look, they have their, their mom and dad or their friends and family, their high school guidance counselor in their head being like, you need real job, you know, and it. By the way, American dream doesn't necessarily mean good dream. I mean, a nightmare is a dream. So it's just a dream, like murky state, you know, was there a catalyst or a moment or an epiphany or something that. And maybe there wasn't. Right? This is just like an interview question, you know, what was that magical thing on a Tuesday that changed everything? Maybe that didn't happen, but was there something or a period of time where you had some light bulbs go on and things started shifting for you?
- [08:05]
Ryan Lee
Well, I was in the lighting business, so there was a lot, a lot of light bulbs going on. Oh, I think you did there. No, but I, There was a lot. There actually was a lot of these epiphany moments where, you know, one time I literally. So I grew up single mother and don't have a relationship with my dad, alcoholic. And I wanted to be this amazing father like that. That was my. Why I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to build this life for my kids that I didn't have. And my mom is an amazing woman. She created an amazing life for us. But there was things that I saw friends getting that I didn't get right. And I was like, man, I want that. And so I started to get traction. I started to get traction in my business. And what I, what I did at the time, which was a huge mistake, was I sacrificed my family time for my business success. I had this scarcity mindset of like, well, if I want success, I have to give up something else. So it's one or the other. And I wasn't Consciously making this decision. This was subconsciously happening. But one day my wife called me out. Lindsay's like, dude, you say all the time, I hear you say, you're doing this for us. You're doing it for the family. I'm drowning over here. We got four kids, and you are nowhere to be found. And I'm like, oh, whoa. Like, are you serious? Like, I'm out here, like. And I got defensive because I'm like, dude, I'm out here working until 1am like, literally moving lights, getting bit by mosquitoes, sweating like crazy in the Texas heat. And now you're going to tell me that I'm not doing a good job? Like, are you kidding me? And it was this giant wake up call. We went to therapy, went to counseling, which I fought. I was like, I am not going to tell an old man about my feelings. Like, that is not who I am. I would rather get divorced. Right? And so I. I fought it tooth and nail, but obviously I didn't. Didn't want to get divorced. And again, I wanted to be this husband. I want to be this father that I have. And so through therapy, it was so healing. It was so therapeutic. It was. It gave me freedom. And it helped me realize that, like, no, you. You can have whatever you want. Like, you don't. You don't have to sacrifice your family to be successful. I learned the question, what has to be true? And it's like, what has to be true for me to be successful and a good family man? And that was a huge wake up call for us. That allowed me to start being intentional, because before that, my business was running me. I mean, I was just. Yes, ma'. Am. Yes, sir. Do whatever you got to do. Fill in. I'll be the office manager if I have to, the installer, the maintenance tech, whatever. And that's when I started. Intentional. I'm. Okay. What. What has to be true? What does my dream life really look like? What does my dream business look like? I'll be forever grateful that she called me out on my BS that day. Wow.
- [10:58]
Josh
Dude, I don't. I don't think I've heard that story before from you. Good for her. Good for you. That's.
- [11:07]
Ryan Lee
That's.
- [11:08]
Josh
That's the moment. Right? So what changes did that prompt you to make? Because I know it's not magical and easy, but when you're operating from a place of fear and anxiety, you know, everything falls apart. How did you approach the business different as you started figuring these things out?
- [11:25]
Ryan Lee
Yeah. Well, again, it came with Intention. Because I was just living in this chaotic life and accepting what happened to me, and I didn't have any control. Right. There was a couple books I read that actually changed my perspective on this. Number one was E. Myth. And a mentor of mine, Raito Mueller, he's the owner of Garden Light. He actually gave me this book. He goes, have you done. He goes, have you done E Myth? And I'm like, I've. What? I've never done an E. Myth. Is that an illegal drug? Like, what. What is done? Email. And he goes. And I was. I was at his place in Florida. He gave me these CDs. And I'm like, this is an E. Myth. I still didn't even know what this was. It was the book E Myth on cd. Like, book on tape. And so I start listening to these CDs as I'm driving around working, and it was the book E Myth. And I was like, whoa, this is cool. Like, this. This really empowered me, because I didn't know. I thought an entrepreneur. The definition of an entrepreneur was, can you outwork anyone else in the world and you'll be successful? But that really gave me a lot of power and freedom because it was like, wait, there's an entrepreneur. There's a manager. There's a technician. And I realized that, like, I'm a really good entrepreneur. But the reason I'm not happy is because I'm trying to be a good manager, and I suck at being manager. I don't know how to do this. And so that was very liberating for me because I'm like, oh, I can accept the good qualities about myself and realize it's okay that I don't have to be good at everything. That's not the definition of an entrepreneur. So that was the first kind of catalyst to start getting intentional. The second one was a friend of mine. We went to church together. He was a dentist and entrepreneur, you know, and he probably saw me living this chaotic life, and he really. He came over to my house and he hand delivered the book Traction. And I thought, wow, no one's ever. No one's ever done anything like that for me.
- [13:19]
Josh
Just like you did the traction?
- [13:22]
Ryan Lee
Yeah. Did you do the job? Like, what is the traction? He hands me these CDs. No, he. He gives me the traction. And, dude, that book, it was the best and worst kind of days of my. My business because I realized, okay, we actually have a blueprint now. This. This is gonna. This is gonna help us get where we want to go. But the sad part Was I realized that my brother and I were gonna have to break up, that we were two visionaries trying to drive this boat. And he's trying to go left to literally go to the lake. He's like, dude, let's go wake surf every day. And I'm like, yeah, it's fun, but it doesn't fulfill what I want. I want to build a. A legacy business. I want to take over the world. So I'm. He's going left to the lake, I'm going right to like, let's build this empire. And what happens when you're doing that? You actually go straight. You stay where you're at and no one's happy. He's like, dude, you work too hard. And I'm like, dude, you don't work enough. And that's, that's not a good position to be in. So, um, that, that was the, the book, though, that really helped us get a lot of traction and start putting the right people in the right place, building systems, building processes, making sure that the business could run without us. But I knew at that point that something. And even in the book it says, like, you're going to lose relationships. You're gonna have to fire people. Like, things, things are getting like, not everyone's gonna accept this. And I, I, like, I felt it, I knew it. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't wanna ruin this relationship with my brother. I don't wanna exit this business. But something was gonna have to change at that point.
- [14:50]
Josh
Wow. So did, did you do a buyout? Did you guys work it out? What happened? Because I know you sold the company. I don't know how much further in the future from the point you're describing. You sold the business. But did you guys just. Did he start a competing company? What happened with that?
- [15:06]
Ryan Lee
So at that time, I, I knew, okay. I'm like, my brother is like the Most street smart MacGyver, can build stuff. Like figure anything out. Like, if I say, here's a job, get it done, he will figure that out. Right? I'm definitely more like the business guy. And like, if, if I had to figure out how to get lights on a chimney, I. It might take me a long time, you know? So I, I was like, let me buy you out. I want to buy you out. Because then, like, I don't have to go surfing anymore. I can go build, build the empire. And then my plan, Lindsay was like, hey, when are we. Also at the same time, Lindsay was like, when are we moving back to Utah? Because we moved from Utah to Texas to start this business. And I was like, we can't move back to Utah. Like, are you kidding me? This bit, like, if I left, the business would fall apart. So combine that with this whole traction story. We start building a business that can run without us. So I was like, okay, well, I could build this to run without me. I'll buy my brother out. So there's no friction there. I'll hire a GM, we'll open up Austin, Houston and build like 15 locations and then sell that. Well, he goes, what am I going to do? Like, give me a couple million bucks and then what? Like, I don't want to start another business. This, this is my life. This is how I provide for my family. And I couldn't think, I mean, I couldn't disagree with him. I was like, well, he, if I say, hey, go start a window cleaning business or do something else, like, he would struggle. Right? But we had a business that was an operating machine at this point. And so we kind of both agreed, even though I didn't want to, that he was going to buy me out. So that's what ended up happening is he bought me out. He still owns the business, still runs, and it's still a good, successful business. It's grown a little bit, but it hasn't grown a lot because no one's really intentionally trying to grow it.
- [16:59]
Josh
Yeah, it's so interesting. A lot of small companies I work with, you probably meet people where this comes up in your coaching program, but they are convinced that the answer to their problem is to get a business partner or an investor. That's another one. Like, I need an investor, I need a business partner. And it's like, nah, are you sure? You know that guy on the Internet, he's like, are you sure? Are you sure? Yeah. Because even if both of you are good hearted and well intentioned, it's still a mess if things aren't super, super clear. You know, if the vision's not the same, if you're not unified on values and you know, because systems are only as good as your commitment to running them. Right? So I think that's, that's interesting.
- [17:43]
Ryan Lee
Well, when you, when you introduce a new system, a concept, a strategy, it's hard to get buy in from the existing team because the existing team didn't have accountability. So now it's like, well, now we're gonna have, we have to meet once a week. We have to be held accountable. Wait, you're gonna reduce my pay to this? Because I'm Only doing this, like, there's a lot of complexities there when you grow. And you gotta understand what got you here won't get you there. And most people don't understand that. So they just stay, Stay comfortable. Humans by nature are. We're creatures of comfort. You know, if it's cold outside, we figure out a way to warm up. If it's too hot, we figure out a way to cool down. When we're hungry, we go kill something and eat it. Like, that's the great thing about humans. But at the same time, that's what's allowed us to survive, which, again, we should be grateful for. But as an entrepreneur, you can't survive. You have to thrive. You have to figure out how to constantly be growing if you want this thing to stay alive. And it's hard. I mean, it was a hard breakup with my brother because we're brothers, you know what I mean? And it was a good business. People tell me all the time, oh, I want to do what you did. I want to sell my business. I'm like, to. What do you mean by that? Why? Like, do you think I wanted to sell my business? I don't want to sell my business. The last year that we had, it was the greatest year of my life because it ran without me. Like, build a business like you're going to sell it and then don't sell it, because these businesses are cash cows. I. I had to. I didn't have to, but I had to. I. I wanted something else that my business partner wanted, and it was the right choice at that time. And I. I wish I didn't have to. You know, I wish we could have kept it because it's a great business. Produces. Produces a lot of cash. Cash flow helps a lot of people. It's. It's a great business.
- [19:24]
Josh
Well, let's talk about the cash cow part of it. I love this. That service, I don't know anything about it. I never sold it. But for me, because my brain operates on, like, frap. Like, I'm obsessed with frap. And to me, a super obvious good idea for any home service company that has a lower ticket thing that they sell is to add a high ticket thing into the mix of the stuff that they. Obviously. So you could have a separate LLC if you wanted for landscape lighting. And it's a whole game. You gotta learn. I understand that. But if you're a $500 average ticket cleaning company and you can start selling $10,000 lighting packages, it has a profound impact on your ability to advertise your ability to hire, pay above market rate wages. It affects your average ticket. Your profit margins are totally better. That part excites me. So get, get us excited about your industry as a whole. Like why people buy it. Why would someone spend 50 grand on lights? Some people spend 200 grand on lights, and that breaks the brains of the people listening to this. Tell us about that part of it, how much money you can make. Tell us some extreme examples regarding that.
- [20:35]
Ryan Lee
This is what I love. Like, I freaking love the landscape lighting industry. It's changed my life, it's changed my family's life. I mean, what I'm doing now is going to change the lives of thousands of people. It already has changed the lives of hundreds of people and the ripple effect. So, like, lighting is so impactful. Like you go into a dark room, all you do is turn on the light. The light will always overpower darkness. It is such a powerful concept and lighting is very powerful. So I love that element of it. But in terms of a business, think about this. Like you, if you're in the roofing business, you could maybe be like, well, yeah, but I make eight bazillion dollars doing roofing. Like, to me, I just, that's not that rewarding because it's just a roof. I know it does keep you dry and stuff like that. But lighting, when we put lighting in someone's backyard, we are creating this sanctuary. So this stressed entrepreneur, this stressed CEO, he gets to come home and instead of yell at his kids because he had a bad day, he can go relax and unwind in his backyard. Like, we're actually helping families bring harmony together, right? And it's an investment that a homeowner, it pays off every single night. Like just driving up to your home when you have, if you've never had it, you wouldn't understand this. But once you do, driving up to your home feels good where you're like, you know, I'm gonna drive around the block again just because I want to, like, drive up to my house. Like, it feels good because you're, it's like you're going to your own resort. You know, like when you go on vacation, it feels good. It feels good to arrive. You get that arrival every single night. It's very, very cool.
- [22:11]
Josh
I never thought of that. But yes, like a super dope looking house that's lit really well. Then it has the walkway lights and it has weird angles shining up on the peaks and the valleys. And just however you guys design all that stuff, the design of it, it's epic. It probably increases the value of the home too, I'm assuming.
- [22:31]
Ryan Lee
Yeah, I mean people aren't, most of the clientele is pretty high end. We call it high end residential, you know, homes at least of a million dollars, but some of them are well over that. These people aren't like, well, tell me about the roi. You know, I want to make sure that it's a good financial investment. They, they know how to make a lot of money so that they can make cool decisions like this. You know, they're not, they go to Vail and spend like $60,000 a week for a condo. They, they, they care about money. Yes, but what they really care about is experience. And that's what lighting can do. It's not, you're not buying fixtures and spotlights and path lights. You're truly buying this experience that pays off every night for like the next 15, 20 years.
- [23:12]
Josh
What's the average breakdown of the numbers on these jobs? What type of gross profit, net profit? If they're doing it right, if they're following your protocols, how hard is it to sell? Tell us a little bit about that.
- [23:25]
Ryan Lee
So there's no, like, it's such a small niche industry. You're not going to be able to Google and find data on this stuff. But I can share the numbers that I've experienced with my clients. When I, when I first started my lighting business, my average job was around $5,000. And today it seems like that's the average. Like as I just talked to random people around the U.S. like, an average landscape lighting job is around 5 to 6. Over time, our average ticket grew to $7,500, which I thought was kind of good. My clients now their average ticket is over $13,000 in landscape lighting secrets. But we've got people. I've got this guy, he literally. So you were, you spoke at Light It Up Expo. I made an offer at the, at Light It Up Expo to join Landscape Lighting Secrets. That was in March. He joined. He and his dad had just started this business. He joined in March and last month. It was July. Yeah, it was last month. He reported that he's already sold over $300,000 in landscape lighting and one job was $150,000.
- [24:28]
Josh
I'm like, was he trying to upsell it to clients from a different business he had? Was that what he was doing?
- [24:36]
Ryan Lee
That would be the easy way to do it. He didn't have an existing business.
- [24:41]
Josh
Oh, wow.
- [24:42]
Ryan Lee
So this is what, this is why it's so magical and oh, this is even crazier. I go, how? I was on a. On a call with him and his dad. I'm like, how did you guys, like, find landscape lighting? Like, how are you in. Like, how are you interested in this? Because normally it is like, yeah, we do, you know, we do pressure washing or something like that. And then we kind of flirted with Christmas lights. And now we want to get into landscape lighting, but they didn't have that story. And he goes, oh, the dad goes, you did my lights years ago. And I'm like, what do you mean I did? What, do you live in Dallas? And he goes, yeah, we had a house in Dallas. They now live in Waco. But he said, you actually, your company did our lights for us. And I'm like, was it. Was it me? He goes, yeah, you came to our house and presented everything. And my son here wants to get into his own business. We were exploring ideas. I said, you know, one thing you should look at. I always remember this experience with this lighting company because it was such a cool experience as a homeowner investing in this product service at the time, that was magical. And this company had everything dialed in, their communication, all this other stuff. So, like, that was like 10 years ago, and now suddenly we're on a call and his son's joining our program. They're already being successful. They're just following the blueprint that we've created. It's much easier if you have an existing business because we can kind of send out a few emails and texts and phone calls, and you've got this gold mine of a customer base sitting there. But these guys have kind of done it the old school way, and we're helping them out with, you know, what to say and what to post on social media and yard signs and all this stuff. But they're. They're kind of doing the guerrilla marketing to, to build their brand and. But they're. But they're doing it like. Some people join our program and they wait three years to wrap their van. These guys have a wrapped van on day one. So they're already getting the repeat business. They're already getting the. The referral from the customer down the street because they're a nosy neighbor, like, oh, what are you guys doing over there? And people miss out on the fundamentals. They miss the small stuff because they're. We're trying to get a grand slam. These guys are just doing the little base hits, getting someone on base so another hit results in a run.
- [26:46]
Josh
What's a. What's a. A target for Net Profit if they're doing things correct, if you're pricing premium and you're running efficiently, what kind of money can you keep on these $13,000 jobs?
- [27:01]
Ryan Lee
So I don't know where this came from, but it's like almost every service business shoots for like 20%. And so that's kind of the same thing in landscape lighting. But what's cool is like you're talking 20% of a $10,000 job. So in terms of dollars, it's $2,000 instead of 20% of like you know, 700. Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're literally like more than 10xing the dollars here when you're talking profit margins. But the reason why I have a hard time talking about profit margins a lot of times because every business is at a different stage. There was when I first started my business, I didn't care as much about making money because I didn't have that many bills. I actually still had a full time job selling software for the first year. And I invested a lot of that back into marketing. So I was spending 15, one time as high as 20% on advertising and marketing. So naturally my, my net was like under 10%. Right. And then the other thing is a lot of people aren't paying themselves, so they're like, oh, I make, you know, 30%. I'm like, well, how much are you paying yourself? Well, my wife works and I'm like, yeah, but like, so if you did pay yourself 200 grand, how much would your company make? If you did pay yourself to go do installs, how much would your company make? So you got to be careful on how you kind of advertise how much you're making. And then there's times where like, yeah, you want to make high net, but if you're in growth mode, I, in my opinion, you need to be reinvesting a lot of that back into the growth of your business so that you can build momentum, so that you can get more repeat business.
- [28:38]
Josh
And so about, what about on the installation side? Like if you have a $10,000 job or whatever, is that a one day thing? Like can you do one of those a day with a couple guys or is it super complicated and it takes a week? Because the other part of the equation is the capacity, meaning you know how much revenue per day a crew can do. And I don't even know what a crew is in, in the landscape lighting.
- [29:01]
Ryan Lee
World, a crew is a, a good average crew is a three man crew. Some people start with one man, some people start with two man and that, that's totally fine. But a good like efficient crew is three. Sometimes if there's two on paper it might make sense because you're like, well I only need two guys. But sometimes that third one is actually good to kind of like mix up the conversation a little bit and good for culture. I would rather kind of maybe overpay a little bit later. I'd rather have three and have them getting done at like 3:30 instead of having two guys and they're working till 5:30 and then they're worn out six months from now. So I like a three man crew. And for sure you can do 10 to 12 grand of installs in a day. With a three man crew, like your first install, you're going to be like, that guy's a liar. Don't trust Ryan Lee. It took me three days. And like it probably will. There is a learning curve, but it's not, not that hard. It's just your first sidewalk that you have to go under. The, the auger bit's going to get stuck, like something's going to go wrong. So don't hold me to the, the 10 to 12K a day on your very first install.
- [30:08]
Josh
But like if you know what you're doing and you're doing things correctly, you can have three guys in a wrapped vehicle and they're doing $10,000 a day. So they can do a couple hundred grand a month in revenue if you can keep them full. That's what makes me excited about the industry from a frat perspective. Right, Frat, you know, frequency referrals, average ticket and pricing. This just dwarfs most people's average ticket. You know, and like you said, the only alternatives are you could get into solar or roofing or I, I view those as very, very saturated, more commoditized markets. I think landscape lighting is really cool because there's this emotional element to it that helps you kind of sell at profitable prices. You know, people don't get like emotionally attached to the shingle choice for the roof like you were saying before. They're like, yeah, you know, the paranoid people might buy the upgraded shingle. So you know, there's a little bit, but it's not the same thing. When you show before and after pictures of these insanely beautiful homes or the security element of having a well lit home and how you're less likely to get broken into by the bad guys. And there's that element. And so it's a really cool thing to sell that you can feel good about, be proud of. And the ticket price is really high. It could be huge. And for the little guy listening to this, it's like you could do one or two jobs a month and it was, it could change the economics of your business.
- [31:31]
Ryan Lee
Well, exactly. And I will say this, like pricing matters. So like the guy who's just coming into the industry, who hasn't been in landscape lighting secrets, who hasn't been to training, they're going to go buy product for like a $60 light and they're going to sell it installed for like 250A light. They're going to buy wire and transform and all this stuff and they don't have a lot of overhead. They might not have insurance yet. You know, like they, there's some things where they might go. Ryan talks about charging four or five $600 a light. Why so much? I can do this for 250. Well, if you only charge 250 a light, you're probably not going to get to that average ticket of 10 to 12 in a day. Because you're talking 25 lights. 25 lights in a day. This three man crew can do. So if you're only charging 250 a light now all of a suddenly that's a $6,000 day instead of a $12,000 day. Right. So there's lots of variables that connect here. But to your point, even if you don't decide to take over the world with landscape lighting and be this, you know, $300,000 a month business, everyone who has a business, if you've had a transaction with a client and they paid you money and you showed up and they gave you a five star review, that means they like you. That means they want to do business with you again because they don't want to go get quotes for other things. And at some point they're, it's not a matter of if but when that customer is going to get landscape lighting. The only question is, is it going to be you or not? And like, why would you not let them know that you offer this service? If you don't want to go advertise to the, to try to figure out Google Ads and all that other stuff, that's okay, but why would you not harvest the relationships that you've already built?
- [33:13]
Josh
Exactly. It's irrefutable freaking logic. Ryan Lee, let's move to like a little quick lightning round type thing and then you can let us know how people connect with you a bit. What is the biggest mistake that you see local home service business owners make in general in Any category.
- [33:33]
Ryan Lee
The biggest mistake. There's a lot.
- [33:35]
Josh
Josh, he's picked a juicy one.
- [33:39]
Ryan Lee
I know the thing that, the one that I'm always. That people know. What I'm going to talk about right now is pricing. They, they don't understand their value. They're not pricing, like, who they want to be. They're pricing like who they are today. So that's a huge mistake because then they don't make enough money to be able to do all these other problems that I want to, like, spend four hours going over. But I think pricing is so important and critical because. And I, I, I'm so guilty. I. This held me back for years, probably six years, because I didn't know this concept. I didn't understand it. Like, I was, I was the guy charging 250A light, and I was like, well, I don't understand what needs to change. Well, you're never going to be able to afford to hire an office manager. You're never going to be able to afford to grow your business if you're not charging, like, the company you want to be. So it's not that hard to solve. You literally just start like, okay, what would it cost me to be a $2 million business? Well, I'd have to have two more trucks. I'd have to have a shop. I have to have this. Figure out what that costs and then start charging appropriately. And don't feel guilty when someone decides to pay you your price.
- [34:42]
Josh
Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing. So, like, people that listen to this and they're like, oh, yeah, obviously, obviously. No, like those people. Sometimes the poorest people are the most arrogant. The question isn't, do you know that you should raise your prices? That's not the question. Everybody just already thought that thought. Everyone already knows that. The question is, did you do it all the way? And if your answer is no, you're not allowed to say words and think thoughts right now when Ryan Lee says that thing. Because if you're doing it and living it, then good. High five. Most people aren't. They're not testing the edges. The litmus test of success isn't, do you know about a thing that's useful to do? It's, are you doing the thing that's useful to do? So it makes my eye twitch. Myron golden always says the biggest threat to learning is thinking that you already know. And that applies to this because they're like, oh, pricing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, you hate money. You're not listening. Do it. Do it now, like, do it scared. Test it. Test the edges. Go for it. I love that.
- [35:43]
Ryan Lee
The other thing I hear is, well, no, I'm already, I hear, I hear that I'm already the highest in my market. And I'm like, okay, why don't you. When, when are we going to start telling me relevant information? I don't care. I. That's not what I said. I didn't say, are you the highest in your market? I said, you price like who you want to be and, and how much that's going to cost you. Because I don't care what the competition's charging. Like, that's, that's never mattered. You can think it matters, but it does not matter. If you're, if you're going to price like that, then you're going to price out of business because it's never, it's never going to work for you. Like, we have what, 90% of businesses fell within the first five years or something like that. We have case studies of how that's a wrong statement. And so it truly is just factoring it based on what your business is required and what your needs are. And as soon as you stop caring about the competition, like, everything becomes a lot easier.
- [36:36]
Josh
Well said. Okay. Okay. Lightning round Question number two. If you had one piece of advice to give a new entrepreneur getting into landscape lighting, what would that be?
- [36:49]
Ryan Lee
Man, these are good. Because I got, I have a list. I have a hundred steps to success. So what's. What's number two on the list? I would say this. You need to be intentional. And now intentional is going to kind of envelop a lot of different things. But most people are unwilling to invest in their future. So people do it the hard way all the time. They go, well, you know, again, my wife works. I don't have to pay that myself, so I'm just going to do it myself. So they're the installer, they're the office manager, there's the salesperson, they're the designer. They're everything. So, number one, you need to invest in yourself by investing in other people, and you need to invest in marketing and advertising. Most people are not willing to take enough risk in business. So I guess intentional as it relates.
- [37:38]
Josh
To risk, like investing in themselves, for example. You know, people are so freaked out to do that. I don't know one high achiever that doesn't do it all the time. Personally, I'm trying to think in my brain right now, all the fancy people I know, 100% of them spend tons of money on their own personal development, on their own education, on their own mentors and mindset and whatever all of them do, right? I mean.
- [38:05]
Ryan Lee
Oh, yeah.
- [38:05]
Josh
Never thought of that until right now, but that's pretty wild. Yeah. Because if you don't value yourself enough to invest in yourself, why should anyone else value you? You know, our customers want you also to the level that we value ourselves. Okay. Okay. And do you have any closing thoughts, final words, something that we should have said that I forgot or we forgot? Just words of encouragement for anybody out there listening.
- [38:34]
Ryan Lee
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that we forgot anything. We probably did. I'll probably listen to it later and be like, oh, wait, Josh, why didn't you ask me that? But one of my phrases that I been using, really, these last five years is keep moving forward. Because it's easy to stop. It's easy to get comfortable. It's easy to just stay where you are. And that's when you have to define, like, what. What do you really want? Like, what does success look like for you? What is the trajectory you want to be on? And then it's a lot easier to like, okay, am I. You can ask yourself every day, did I do everything in my power to get closer to my result? You know, Henry Ford probably has my favorite quote of all time. Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right. People that are saying right now, well, I can't raise my price. Not in my market, you can't. Like, you already have the answer. You've already figured it out. You know, I've already tried that. I can't do this. So I love that quote because it's given me so much power, and I'm like, I can do whatever I want. I truly can. And my quote that I came up with is not whether you think you can or think you can't. You're right. Is believing that you can is way more profitable than believing that you can't. So good. I want you to believe in yourself. I want you to believe that if. If Ryan Lee can do it. Dude, I've got clients that are upstaging me all the time. I mean, that client, it took me, like, eight years to sell $150,000 project. This guy did it in three months, you know, So I got clients that are selling literally 5, 6, 7, $800,000 lighting, landscape, lighting projects at a residential home.
- [40:08]
Josh
Wow.
- [40:09]
Ryan Lee
So, like, who am I? Like, I feel like I'm, like, the coach of, like, Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. Like, how would you do that. And I'm trying to figure out. I'm like, I don't know how I'm doing it. Like, you got it, guys. You know, go do. Go do the thing. You know, you have to believe in yourself. And when you do, everything becomes so much easier.
- [40:32]
Josh
I have a new favorite little zinger of a quote I'm gonna give to you that I heard this week. It says, your personal insecurity is not market reality, and it relates to what you just said. So it's like you feeling like, well, I can't raise my price. Like, whatever feeling you're feeling has absolutely nothing to do with anything when it comes to the market, someone else can do. Like, it's. It's completely detached and divorced from that. And then what you said reminded me, too, of another Myron thing where he says, you know, we need to start doubting our doubts, and that faith and doubt are both belief. So everybody already is a believer. You can't not be a believer. The question isn't, should I have, you know, be a believer? It's are you going to direct your belief towards faith or doubt? And if you're going to go the doubt route, it's going to be hard. And I know from personal experience, I have a master's degree in pain, a bachelor's in suffering. Right. Like, we joke about that. So I agree with everything you said. It was a great end cap for. For the thing. How. How could people get in touch with you? You have a really cool podcast. Lightingforprofits.com I think, is your podcast. You have some other things. Share, Share all the places you want to send people to connect with you.
- [41:48]
Ryan Lee
Yeah, I mean, the podcast is great. I mean, you've been on there a couple times. My guests are phenomenal. And I've had people literally tell me, josh, this is so cool, because I've had people that, like, I don't. I don't like to call my program, which is Landscape Lighting Secrets. I don't like to call it, like a coaching program, because coaching, it kind of has like a. It's like a salesperson, like, has this negative connotation with it now for whatever reason. But I've had people that are, like, hesitant, they don't want to join a coaching program. They don't like who wants accountability, you know, like, it's just easier to keep doing what you're doing. But I've had people, they reach out and they go, man, I've made so much money by listening to your free podcast. I feel guilty. Like, Take my money. I'm sure it's going to be good, it's going to be worth it. But they've, they've literally like we're not holding anything back. So for sure, the podcast, lightingforprofits.com it's on YouTube, it's all the things but you can find it@lightingforprofits.com and then if you want to connect with me on Facebook, I'm pretty active on there. If you want to send me a dm, I've got a bunch of helpful links with some free downloads and stuff like that. Some things that'll help you out. If you're looking to get started in the lighting industry, we've got Light it Up Expo coming up next March. We got so many different resources to help you out, so really just want to thank you for having me on here, Josh. I appreciate it.
- [43:00]
Josh
Yeah, I don't, I don't have a lot of people on, I don't do a lot of interviews on this podcast, but I respect you a lot. I. We have some of the same customers and every single person I've ever met talks super highly of Ryan Lee. And I know you personally, so I get it. But at the same time, just to encourage you, you're awesome and you're running a ethical, quality, results producing business that's helping people. It's irrefutable, it's undeniable and I think you're just getting started. So much respect, much love and that's it. Take care everybody. Do you want to weaponize your brain and turn it into a money making machine? Consider joining Warplan Coaching. You'll get thousands of dollars in exclusive courses and training on private community, a chance to come to in person meetups at Warplan Studios, and access to myself for Q and A every single month. Want to know the best part? It's free. Plus we'll send you a private weekly newsletter full of money making tips and cutting edge ideas. Just go to warplan.com to sign up. Hey, I'm your biggest fan. I'm rooting for you. We'll see you next time.
- [44:12]
Ryan Lee
Sam.