415: Ronda Paulson—Drinking from a Firehose

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe – Episode 415: Ronda Paulson—Drinking from a Firehose

In Episode 415 of The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe, hosted by Mike Rowe, listeners are introduced to Rhonda Paulson and her transformative journey in the realm of foster care. This episode, titled "Drinking from a Firehose," delves deep into Rhonda's experiences, the exponential growth of her initiative, and the profound impact of media exposure on her life and mission.

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1. Introduction and Meeting Rhonda Paulson

Mike Rowe begins the episode by expressing his deep emotional connection to Rhonda's story, admitting that she moved him to tears twice during their conversation.

• Mike Rowe [00:04]: "Her name is Rhonda Paulson... Maybe there's a higher power at work."

Rhonda, alongside her husband Corey, joins Mike from Tennessee to discuss the birth and expansion of Isaiah 1:17 House, an initiative dedicated to assisting children in the foster care system.

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2. The Catalyst: Returning the Favor Episode

The turning point in Rhonda's journey occurred after the Returning the Favor episode aired. Initially intended to spotlight her modest efforts in Elizabethton, the episode resonated deeply with millions, leading to unforeseen consequences.

• Mike Rowe [03:33]: "After this thing aired, it struck such a chord with the 2 million people who watched it..."

Rhonda's contact information was inadvertently made public, resulting in an overwhelming influx of support and inquiries nationwide.

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3. Explosion of Support and Organizational Growth

The unexpected surge in attention transformed Isaiah 1:17 House from a local effort to a national movement. As a result, Rhonda and Corey expanded their operations significantly.

• Mike Rowe [04:30]: "6,000 kids have basically been pulled out of the foster care system as a result of the Isaiah 1:17 house..."

By the episode's release in November 2024, the organization boasted 57 locations across 12 states, 160 employees, and over 7,000 volunteers, all dedicated to providing stable homes for children in need.

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4. The Challenges of Sudden Fame

While the growth was a cause for celebration, Rhonda faced immense personal challenges. The sudden fame and constant demands led to significant stress, resulting in multiple hospitalizations.

• Rhonda Paulson [38:16]: "I ended up in the hospital four times... I nearly died."

Rhonda candidly shares the toll of managing an organization that suddenly became a lifeline for thousands, emphasizing the delicate balance between personal well-being and mission-driven work.

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5. The Role of Faith and Personal Conviction

Central to Rhonda's mission is her faith, which she intertwines seamlessly with her advocacy for foster care.

• Rhonda Paulson [20:56]: "God is speaking to his people... do good, seek justice, take care of the widow, take care of the orphan."

Rhonda and Corey felt a profound calling inspired by Isaiah 1:17, prompting them to open their hearts and home to foster children. This conviction drove them to persevere despite the overwhelming challenges.

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6. Community Support and Building Infrastructure

The influx of support wasn't limited to donations. Rhonda highlights the importance of community involvement in sustaining and expanding foster care initiatives.

• Rhonda Paulson [28:08]: "They paved our driveway, got us a sign, got computers, chairs... Jesus and Micro did everything right here."

Community members from various backgrounds, including church groups and local volunteers, played a pivotal role in providing resources and emotional support, ensuring that Isaiah 1:17 House could accommodate more children effectively.

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7. Lessons Learned and Reflections

Through her journey, Rhonda underscores the systemic issues within the foster care system, advocating for legislative changes and greater community involvement.

• Rhonda Paulson [68:20]: "I want to see the church mobilized... stop pointing fingers at the state."

She emphasizes the need for a collective effort, where faith-based initiatives and community support intersect to create lasting change, rather than relying solely on state interventions.

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8. Call to Action and Future Aspirations

In the episode's concluding segments, Rhonda passionately calls on listeners to take actionable steps towards fostering and supporting initiatives like Isaiah 1:17 House.

• Rhonda Paulson [69:40]: "If you have thought ever about being a foster parent, you are needed... just take one step at a time."

Mike Rowe echoes this sentiment, encouraging listeners to leverage their platforms and resources to support such noble causes, ensuring that the ripple effect of one individual's commitment can lead to widespread societal benefits.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mike Rowe [00:04]: "Rhonda's life wound up going in a totally different direction... the power of this microphone... 6,000 kids have been pulled out of the foster care system."

• Rhonda Paulson [03:33]: "That episode was supposed to air on March 16th of 2020... we are now opening homes because the neighboring county is like, oh, we want that."

• Rhonda Paulson [20:56]: "Most of them are in desperate need of a bath or a shower... the state is doing... it's not the caseworker's fault."

• Rhonda Paulson [33:51]: "We've served over 6,000 children... we have 60 people waiting in a queue wanting to start an Isaiah 1:17 house."

• Rhonda Paulson [44:02]: "Anyone listening? I think we all should be compelled just to love our neighbor."

• Rhonda Paulson [57:40]: "How do foster parents say yes? Well, no wonder nobody's saying yes, but we need them to say yes."

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Conclusion

Episode 415 offers an intimate look into the life of Rhonda Paulson, showcasing the profound impact one individual's dedication can have on systemic issues like foster care. Through heartfelt conversations, Rhonda and Mike Rowe illuminate the complexities, challenges, and triumphs inherent in such endeavors, inspiring listeners to reflect on their roles in fostering community and societal well-being.

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For More Information:

• Isaiah 1:17 House: isaiah117house.com
• Follow Rhonda Paulson's Journey: Stay updated with Isaiah 1:17 House's expanding network and how you can contribute or become a foster parent.

Transcript

[Mike Rowe]

It's the way I heard it. I don't know what episode it is, and it doesn't matter. I've been on an emotional roller coaster. Our guest today made me cry twice. Once. I thought it was twice, man. Yeah, maybe she really touched me, man. Her name is Rhonda Paulson, and I know her. I met Rhonda on Returning the Favor a couple of years ago. She lives in Tennessee. She and her husband Corey flew out here to do this podcast, and I invited them because, in part, I heard her on Bill Courtney's podcast not long ago. Right. And I just had not been in touch with Rhonda, and I had no idea the extent to which Isaiah 1:17 House has grown. And it also came up. You brought her name up. You invoked her name in the episode with Bishop W.C. martin. Right. Where you said, you know, basically, oh, you guys are kindred spirits. She's doing the same thing that you're doing. Yeah. And, in fact, she sounded a lot like him. So I don't know why I'm being pulled into this foster care world, honestly. Like, there's a whole nother situation with this organization called Care Portal who keeps darkening my doorstep. I don't know. Maybe there's a higher power at work. Rhonda certainly thinks there is. Yep. Look, this episode is called Drinking From a Fire Hose. That's Rhonda's expression, because what happened to her after her episode of Retreat, Returning the Favor dropped back in March of 2020 was kind of unlike. Well, I've seen the unintended consequences of that show happen before, but not to this level. Put the woman in the hospital four times. Yeah. The stress. You see, she left her cell phone number on her website. And after this thing aired, it struck such a chord with the 2 million people who watched it and then the many millions who saw it after that. Well, Rhonda's life wound up going in a totally different direction. Her modest endeavor to make a difference in her little town of Elizabethton turned into this national surge, and she's been on a different path ever since. And I really didn't know whether to apologize or congratulate her. Happily, I think we're at a point now where congratulations are in order because she's so grateful for what happened, and I'm so humbled, because 6,000 kids have basically been pulled out of the foster care system as a result of the Isaiah 17 house and the weird level of notoriety it got from Returning the favor. So, yay us. I'm really super excited to share this story with you. But I'm also really humbled by the power of this microphone and the power of TV and the power of, you know, sharing one person's story. I know that's all uncharacteristically earnest, but you got to admit, Chuck, you mumble into a mic, you make some sounds, and then 6,000 kids are transformed as a result. That's pretty good. I just want to say it's Isaiah 1:17. House. Yes. Okay. What did I call it? Isaiah 17. So 1:17. It's a scripture. The ones. Yeah. Do you know the scripture, smarty Page? Not by heart, but I mean, I got a Bible right over here. I could pull it up. Yeah. That would only take another two minutes that we'd have to cut out. And why do that when Rhonda Paulson is standing by? Her husband's here too. His name's Corey. You might hear me reference him. Corey got a vasectomy after they had a couple of kids because he really didn't want anymore. Yeah, he was done. Yeah. Rhonda wasn't.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And what happens after that? I don't want to spoil it, but it's great. And so is Rhonda. It's a transformational story and a cautionary tale. Because no matter how thirsty you are, my friends drinking from a fire hose almost never ends as expected. Rhonda Paulson right after this. Like a lot of people, my parents are not what you would call tech savvy. So it seems weird to get them a tech adjacent gift. But Aura's digital frame was actually perfect. I gave them one last Christmas and they love it. In fact, don't tell them, but I'll probably give them another one this year since they've taken to moving the one that I gave them from room to room. Which is weird. If you haven't heard, Aura is the number one digital frame out there. No memory cards, no USBs are required. And it really is super easy to get started. And once you do, all of the tech will take care of itself. You can upload your photos right from your phone with a single click. You can share photos with ease. It'll even pair photos together, like two pictures of the same person or two pictures from the same day. The point is, it's super simple, very intuitive, and a really personal way to stay in touch with the people you love. And for limited time, you can get $45 off Aura's best selling Carver Mat frames by using promo code Mike at checkout that that's a U R a frames.com promo code Mike. This is an exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal, and it'll be their very best of the year, so don't miss out. Terms and conditions [e-mail] promo code mike. A U R A U R A U R A frames.com/Mike, first of all, thank you for not only signing the release, but not even reading it.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, I read it.

[Mike Rowe]

Did you?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes. You are allowed to exploit throughout the universe. That's amazing.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, I watched you read it, and if you actually read it, then you're a speed reader along with everything else that you do. But you did glance at it long enough. She like mutters in the known universe and the unknown, I believe it says. Yeah, that actually was an artifact from the first release that Discovery made me sign, like, back in 1993. And it was the right to use whatever happens, both visual and audio on the Discovery Channel. Any channel affiliated with the Discovery Channel. Any. Any network affiliated with the Discovery Channel. Any media company or conglomerate affiliated with any network affiliated with the Discovery Channel on any planet in the solar system or body in the universe known and unknown.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You clearly read it.

[Mike Rowe]

I read it. I immediately looked over my shoulder to see if there was maybe a camera rolling, certain that somebody was screwing with me, but they weren't. And so, yeah, that's what we do. Now, did we make you sign a release for returning the favor before we showed up?

[Rhonda Paulson]

No, because I didn't know you were coming. I really can't believe I didn't read that, because I can't believe I even trust you after what happened to me with returning the favor. But some reason I do. I trust you, Mike. Why is that?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, it's difficult to know, given the fact that you didn't even know who the hell I was when I showed up.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I did it.

[Mike Rowe]

Part of the surprise baked into the show is like, oh, gosh, they're gonna be so surprised when they find out we're not doing a little documentary. And then wait till Mike walks in. They'll be like, mike Rowe, what are you doing here? You just looked at me as if, like, oh, another man has walked in on.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, everyone in the room was looking at you like you were supposed to be a big deal. So I thought you were supposed to be a big deal. I mean, I thought I was supposed to know you. That's what I kept thinking as you were walking to me. I thought, I'm supposed to know him. I'm supposed to know him. I think he's the guy from Tim the Tool Man. Taylor. That's what was going through my head.

[Mike Rowe]

No, wait a minute. Did you think I was maybe Tim Allen or Richard, what's his name, who plays?

[Rhonda Paulson]

I thought you were Tim Allen. Not the guy over the fence.

[Mike Rowe]

Okay, well, that's Wilson.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, no, I didn't think you were Wilson.

[Mike Rowe]

But there's another guy, his buddy, Richard.

[Rhonda Paulson]

No, no, no, you were not Richard. You were Tim Allen.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, that's not bad to be mistaken.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah, I thought you were Tim.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, you played his brother on Last Man's Death. You probably didn't know that either.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I did not.

[Mike Rowe]

You could literally fill a book with what you don't know about Melbourne.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I do not. And my mom was so disappointed because she thought Dolly Parton was coming.

[Mike Rowe]

Dolly Parton?

[Rhonda Paulson]

She was in on it. I was not. I did not know. And she just knew someone famous was coming, and she just knew it was Dolly Parton.

[Mike Rowe]

How does that work? How does the brain just makes an.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Assumptive leap, like an hour and a half from us? And she gives us free books through the library. Dolly Parton library. Everybody gets free books in Tennessee.

[Mike Rowe]

I love the way. And Corey, you can confirm that you've been hearing this all your life, right? She says things that are both obscure and arcane in a way that makes you feel stupid for not knowing. Right.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Everyone knows about Dolly Parton in the library.

[Mike Rowe]

Like, who would know that Dolly Parton lives right down the road. What was it? Elizabethton.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Elizabethton.

[Mike Rowe]

I said it close to, right?

[Rhonda Paulson]

You did. You did.

[Mike Rowe]

You're in the. Is it the southwestern part?

[Rhonda Paulson]

No.

[Mike Rowe]

Northeast part, Eastern part. Okay, so close. So close. It's such a weird state. Tennessee.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, I say that as a.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, we're sitting in California, so.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

I think it's bordered by, what, like, nine states?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

Like, everything touches Tennessee.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

And you touch so many things in Tennessee because you're very handsy and grabby.

[Rhonda Paulson]

What? I don't think I've ever been described like that, but I'll take it. Okay.

[Mike Rowe]

Hands in.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Grabby. All right.

[Mike Rowe]

You've got to bring me up to speed.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Okay.

[Mike Rowe]

Let me tell you what I know, okay? And this will sound crazy because we were returning favors at a rate when we met you, we were moving so fast, and I was working on another project at the same time, and it was coming at me from all sides. What I remember is we had a really great day together. I remember you making me laugh. I remember making you cry. I think Corey might have cried.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Corey cries all the time.

[Mike Rowe]

He's a Crier.

[Rhonda Paulson]

He cries all the time.

[Mike Rowe]

Right? Your kids. I don't know, they cried. Really? They were more bemused.

[Rhonda Paulson]

They don't. No, they don't cry.

[Mike Rowe]

But what I'm telling you is I don't have nearly as clear a recollection of that day as I'm sure you do, because we were just on this hamster. I wasn't even sure when I left where I was leaving. I was pretty sure it was Kentucky or Tennessee. But I listened to Bill Courtney this morning on my walk and got kind of up to speed third hand. I really didn't know the extent to which things have apparently taken off for you guys.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Blown up. Exploded.

[Mike Rowe]

Blown up. Real good.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Real good.

[Mike Rowe]

All right. What's the State of the Union over there at Isaiah House?

[Rhonda Paulson]

So the day is kind of a blur for me, too, because I didn't know what was happening. I truly believed a small documentary company was coming. And then this guy walks in that supposedly is famous, and everybody is really excited about it.

[Mike Rowe]

I like supposedly in that sentence. That's my favorite word in that sentence.

[Rhonda Paulson]

But my brother was really excited to see you, so. He was. He watched every episode of Dirty Job, so my brother knew who you were. But the whole day, I just couldn't understand what was happening. The day itself is kind of a blur for me as well, but what happened after is very crystal clear in my mind. So our episode was supposed to air on March 16th of 2020. Sarah, your producer, lovely, lovely Sarah. She's the best, calls me and says, oh, we changed it. We changed it. We're going to air your episode on September 9th.

[Mike Rowe]

March.

[Rhonda Paulson]

March. March. March 9th of 2020.

[Mike Rowe]

So the 6th to the 9th, the.

[Rhonda Paulson]

16Th to the 9th. We're moving it up one week. We're moving your episode up.

[Mike Rowe]

And not much else happened in the year 2029. March. That was the week of the lockdowns. Exactly.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Right before.

[Mike Rowe]

Right. So California lockdown on Friday the 13th.

[Rhonda Paulson]

So. So we dropped March 9th. Two million people watched it. March 13th, the world shuts down.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

March 16th, when we were supposed to air. 10,000 people watched that episode because nobody was watching anything.

[Mike Rowe]

Nobody's watching anything. Right.

[Rhonda Paulson]

So now everyone's locked down in their house. And you know what they're doing, Mike? They're watching. Returning the favor. And you know what? They hear you say you need a Rhonda. And you know what they decide to do? Call Rhonda. Because when you went to our website, my cell number was there. My cell. Oh, wow.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. Oh, God. I doxxed you.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah. So everybody called Rhonda. Cause Mike Rowe, the famous guy who knew, everyone knows your famous, decides to call Rhonda. And 41 states and four countries reached out in the month of March wanting an Isaiah 1:17 house.

[Mike Rowe]

Okay, good for us. That's great. I'm being a really bad host. Let's just back up for the uninitiated. Okay, first of all, give me the Scripture.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Isaiah 1:17 says, do good, seek justice, take care of the widow, take care of the orphan.

[Mike Rowe]

Got it. I knew that. Just want to see if you had actually committed to. You passed the test, Rhonda. Okay. So that's a scripture that calls people to look after the less fortunate. It really kind of goes right to the guts of what you call the single minded biblical proposition that informs most of Christianity as we understand it today.

[Rhonda Paulson]

And what I always like to say about that scripture, because I really don't believe you should just take a scripture. You should never just pick one out.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I mean the snout of a. That was great.

[Mike Rowe]

Fine gold ring, snout of a pig. It's six.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I mean if you want to pick that one out. But if you look at Isaiah 1:17, if you look at that whole context, God is speaking to his people and what he says is, you think I want what you're currently doing? Like you think I want these new moon festivals and these sacrifices? No, they're actually making me sick to my stomach. What I want from my people is for you to do good and seek justice and take care of the widow and take care of the orphan. And my husband Corey and I found that verse as we were staring into the face of our very first foster placement, which was a nine month old little boy named Isaiah. And when you are looking in the face of a little boy that you just met who's now completely dependent on you and your family for everything, that verse just hits different.

[Mike Rowe]

His name was Isaiah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

And did you immediately think of the scripture or did this come out somehow, triangulate later?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, we decided to read the Bible because if you have talked your husband into foster care and you haven't had a baby in your house in nine years and your husband actually had a procedure so that that would never happen again.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yep. It's all coming back to you.

[Rhonda Paulson]

All of a sudden there's a nine month old, things get tense.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

And things get said like you got us into this. So then you say things like we should read the Bible together.

[Mike Rowe]

That'll fix it. That'll fix.

[Rhonda Paulson]

We should read the book of Isaiah, wouldn't that be fitting?

[Mike Rowe]

That sounds great. We were gonna watch Saving Private Ryan, but now we're gonna go through Isaiah one verse at a time. You said talked into. As I recall, it was part manipulation of a truly inspired kind and outright deception, as I recall.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I mean, potato, potato. You know, like men see it one way, women see it another. I felt very strongly that God was calling us to the world of foster care.

[Mike Rowe]

Why?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Because I believe with all my heart that that is where you will find Jesus. Jesus was always for the least of these. He was with the marginalized, he was with the forgotten. He was with the most vulnerable. And if you want to find the Most vulnerable in 2024, go to the foster care system, because children entering the foster care are some of the most vulnerable in society today.

[Mike Rowe]

And when did that become self evident to you? Is it when you met Isaiah? Or was it when you first saw this weird kind of purgatory that kids enter into?

[Rhonda Paulson]

You know, it was all of it. It was taking classes and learning that that removal day is actually one of the hardest days they ever go through. You know, I think a lot of us, when we think of a child being removed from their family, we think that's a good thing. I mean, we think, oh my gosh, what they're living in and what they're seeing and what they're going through, let's get them out of there. Well, yeah, but if that's all you've ever known and that's your mama and that's your home, and that's your brother and your sister that you're gonna be removed from, and that's your pet and that's your school that you can't go to anymore and you don't get to take any of your places belongings. That's the most traumatic day you're ever going to walk. I mean, you're taken away from school and said, sorry, you can't go home today. And I don't know when you can say mama again. That's a hard day.

[Mike Rowe]

Literally plucked out of existence, as you understand.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

Okay. And this the average age we're talking here?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, I mean, we've seen people in the Isaiah 117 house. We've seen children from 2 days old to turning 18 the next day.

[Mike Rowe]

Totally different type of trauma, obviously. How old was Isaiah?

[Rhonda Paulson]

He was nine months old.

[Mike Rowe]

Nine months. And so there's a social worker there, I assume, and the family is there. And sometimes it's here, take him enough where you've been or I've had Second thoughts, don't go. Or how. I mean, I just, I want people to understand the grab bag of potential trauma that that day is.

[Rhonda Paulson]

So sometimes it's 2:30 in the morning and there's been a physical altercation and the police have been called out and they're finding drugs and mom and dad are screaming and yelling and they're having to gather up children of all ages and put them in the back of a cop car until the department can get there. Yeah, sometimes it's been a steady reporting and reporting and reporting and the child is getting ready to get on the bus and they're greeted by their principal and a caseworker and said, I'm sorry, you cannot get on the bus today. You can't go home. And I don't know when you're going to get to see mama. Sometimes it's coming in after school, we have a meeting with the social worker and they find something right then and there and they say we have to remove immediately. Sometimes parents bring their children to the Department of Children's Services and said, I have done all I can do and I don't know what to do anymore. Sometimes you have one parent and they die and there is no family and that child has just lost their only parent and they now come into state's custody. I mean, there's all kinds of reasons that children come into state's custody.

[Mike Rowe]

And what were the circumstances surrounding Isaiah?

[Rhonda Paulson]

A long history of poverty, drug addiction, domestic violence. Tried and tried and tried to get help and to make things better.

[Mike Rowe]

And what happens to these kids in between the removal and the ultimate placement?

[Rhonda Paulson]

So that's what we found. That's what kind of blew my mind is, you know, first you find out that they're walking this traumatic day and then you find out that the plan is for that child to go to a state office and just sit and wait.

[Mike Rowe]

Describe the office. Because you took me to one. I want people to see it in their mind's eye.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Think dmv, think any state office you've had to visit. Think tile floor, think fluorescent lighting. Gray, gray, beige, beige. State issued furniture, probably outdated, kind of a Soviet feel. Mm, mm. Yeah, yeah. And cubicles everywhere, conference rooms, vending machines, public restrooms. And they're being asked to sit and wait till placement is found. You got to also picture the state the child is in. So they're beyond sad, they're traumatized, they're scared because they don't know where they're going. They may feel a lot of guilt, especially if they've Said something they believe that has brought them into this situation, or if they've gotten their parents in.

[Mike Rowe]

Trouble, which is, by the way, what they're kind of wired to do. We all are. Right. Like the brain looks for cause and effect. And if your universe is as small as that house that you're about to be removed from, the immediate thing is just to say, I caused whatever's happening. I'm the proximate cause of it. Because at that age, they're still the center of their own solar system. Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

What did I do wrong? Yeah, I'm in trouble.

[Mike Rowe]

You.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You know, and so guilt, shame, they're feeling all these emotions. Most likely they have nothing with them. Most likely they're hungry, they're tired, Most of them are in desperate need of a bath or a shower. And they're sitting in a state office, which is not equipped to meet any of those needs. And it's not the caseworker's fault. I mean, once again, picture the dmv. Is the DMV equipped to. To give a four year old a bath, a teenager, a shower? Fix A proper meal, get them clothing, Remove the lice. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Pick the lice.

[Rhonda Paulson]

No, but that's where they're sitting. And sometimes it's four hours, sometimes it's eight hours, sometimes it's 12 hours. Post 20, 23 days a week. In some states, they're moving them to hotels. Some states they're turning entire offices into. The boys stay in this office, they're living there. The girls stay in this office, they're living there. I mean, it is across this country. There are children with absolutely nowhere to go.

[Mike Rowe]

Bishop Martin sat where you're sitting about six weeks ago, and for much the same reason. What I do remember vividly about meeting you was really a day or two before I met you. When I said to the producers and to Facebook, I said, you know, I just don't know about this story. A couple things make me nervous. She's a religious woman. And that's not either a good or a bad thing for me. It's just that we can get into this later if you're interested. The church doesn't get a free pass. You know, the church is a huge part of solving this problem. But there's also something else. And I've been burned over the years, frankly, by just marching in lockstep with certain doctrinaires and feeling like, you know, something that's. Yeah, whatever. And it felt, how to say it, I guess, like a lot of people, I didn't appreciate the Purgatory you just described. You know, I knew the foster care system wasn't perfect, and I knew there was a terrible correlation between recidivism in crime. Follow it back. So many foster kids, right? So I knew there was a bad path. I didn't know to what extent, and I didn't know you, but I talked to Sarah, who you mentioned. She's like, mike, look, trust me, I've talked to this woman. It's not platitudes and it's not bromides. She has her faith, but I don't think she gives a damn about much other than those less fortunate than her.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Amen, Sarah.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, you know, look, I mean, you know, Sarah is just the most. I mean, you guys probably could sit down and have, like, an optimistic smile off or something.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I did love her to see who.

[Mike Rowe]

Could slide up the banister faster a la Mary Poppins, but it was her recommendation. And then I read a little bit about it myself, and I'm like, good God, this is a sprawling problem. And then the question was simply, what can one woman do? That's an interesting question to me, because macro problems often have micro solutions. That's why returning the favor became what it was. And I knew what had happened at that point to our friend Luke Mickelson. I saw what that bunk bed project turned into, and in the back of my mind, I was like, well, who knows? Who knows? Maybe? Anyway, I'm just saying all that because I didn't know. I really didn't know until you showed me. And it was a privilege to show 2 million other people what they didn't know. That's why your phone blew up. So what exactly did we do for you again? We built something. What'd we give you? I forget. Before I tell you why you should dump your current wireless provider and start Saving money with PureTalk, I should tell you, in the interest of full disclosure, that I am already a satisfied customer. I should also tell you that These guys at PureTalk just donated $50,000 to the microworks foundation, which I will use to help train the next generation of skilled workers. And it's also worth knowing that PureTalk is absolutely committed to making life better for our nation's veterans. They have so far alleviated over $10 million in veteran debt, and they've partnered with the American Warrior Partnership, which is doing great work fighting the scourge of veteran suicide. But all that notwithstanding, I would still encourage you to switch to Pure Talk for the simple reason that doing so is in your best interest. PureTalk gives you access to America's most dependable 5G network for half the cost. They do all of their customer service right here in the States. This is a no contract wireless company with a money back guarantee with international roaming in over 50 countries. So why not do what I did? Switch to a company that supports the things that you care about, like our veterans and supporting American jobs and helping Microworks train the next generation of skilled workers and saving 50% off your first month when you go to PureTalk.com RO and switch to PureTalk today.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, we had just purchased a home to make our home office because we had just recently hired three other people in 2018. There was one employee and one house and 40 trained volunteers. Yeah, by the time you got to us, there were four employees. And we had just built, purchased this home, but we had nothing in it. We had like tables from Sam's and somebody's grandmother's chairs, folding chairs from her garage. And we had nothing. So you gave us money to finish that. We paved our driveway, we got a sign, we got computers, chairs. Anyone that visits, I say Jesus and Micro did everything right here. They seem to know who you are too. Like everyone I talk to knows who you are. So if you were worried, just me didn't know, but. And then you gave us lots of things to provide for the children, which was amazing.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, look, there are no small things, right? Like the business of getting the kids bathed. The business of literally delousing them by hand. The first time you realized that was the level of. What's the word? Squalor. That's the level of depredation. I mean, it's.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, you know, people get so mad at the state, like, you know, you pick up a newspaper article, Everybody's mad at the state. They're so mad at the state. Picture this. The state is standing in their break room beside their coffee maker picking lice out of a child's head. That's what the state is doing. That's what the caseworkers are doing. And then if you want to move higher up, if you want to be mad at the state, this is what I always say. I'm not mad at the state. This was never the state's calling. This was never the state's calling. If you want to talk church with me, I'll talk church. This was the church's calling and the church handed it to the state. And now the church wants to get mad at the state. I'm not mad at the state because if the church will stand up and do what they were called to do from Genesis to Revelation, we won't have to worry about the state.

[Mike Rowe]

So one of the first people I remember meeting that day was, I guess was a case worker. It was somebody from the state. And I remember you were protective of them. In fact, didn't you tell your people, you know there's a documentary crew coming? Don't bad mouth the state.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Do you remember my pep talk? Did I tell you my pep talk? Because I thought it was a small documentary crew.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, in full disclosure, I did watch the episode. I did, yes.

[Rhonda Paulson]

And I said, okay, because I don't do details. So I said, guys, I don't know. There's some small documentary crew coming. There are two rules. Number one, do not say one negative thing about the state. Not one. And number two, don't take your shirt off because I don't know what kind of company this is, but we're not making that kind of video. That was. Those were only rules.

[Mike Rowe]

It's Tennessee. And then cameras are coming.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Then some guy comes in and pulled my shirt out and dropped a microphone and said, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. See?

[Mike Rowe]

Which one was that? Taylor, who's doing audio.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Probably him. Probably Taylor.

[Mike Rowe]

Just kidding, Taylor. It's not really his department, but, you know. Yep, that's what happens when you're in Tennessee. Yeah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

No, your team was amazing. And multiple of those guys who don't speak a word that whole day, I guess because they're holding a microphone, came up afterwards crying, like crying and hugging and just pouring their hearts out about what that episode meant to them.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, that's nice to hear.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You know, they were amazing.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, it is, because, you know, we had our own drama with returning the favor. I've never talked to you about this, but all good things are circuitous in a way. Like the Isaiah house didn't just pop into existence fully formed. Right. It fits and starts. And I didn't want to do a feel good show. I didn't want to do Extreme Home Makeover. Hudson media did and Facebook did, and they pitched us real hard. You just talked to Mary and you know, she was. They came to her first and it was no. Then it was just, no, thank you. And then it was like, no, seriously, we're just not going to do it. And they came down and they talked and we had this big conversation about how can you make a difference in this industry without just choking on your own saccharine sweetness and the earnestness of it all. It's not that I'm not a fan of those things. I just like how can we tell the story in a way that doesn't feel manipulative. These are all big conversations and I wasn't convinced it could be done until we decided to basically have a behind the scenes camera, which was Taylor, who just never stopped shooting. So getting all those little moments cut into the finished product, that was the way we were able to come together and say, okay, I think there is a way to tell these stories. It's not going to be traditional, it's not going to make everybody super comfortable. But the funny thing is that I think you'll appreciate is those guys, you know, Sarah, not so much, but Jacob and Lucien and Brent and certainly Michael Roark, you know, who ran the company. Those guys were all making their living, you know, Real Housewives of like San Bernardino or something. I mean, they wanted to work on something that made them proud. And you really made them. You made Michael Roark cry. And I didn't think he had tear ducts. This is a hardened, you know, Hollywood producer who pulled me aside. It actually wasn't after your episode, but it was that season. And he just said to me, mike, you know, my family, I think it was around Thanksgiving, it was like my family told me, this is the first thing I've ever done that made them proud. And so anyway, I mean, there was a smallness around what we were doing that was juxtaposed to a bigness. And I thought the same thing about you. I thought there's something so small about wanting to smooth over the transition, that these kids are more or less destined to experience, improve that. That's modest. But of course, it's adjacent to some rather big things too. And the fact that this thing got weirdly big just tickles me to no end.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah, I mean, as of Today, we have 27 open homes, 57 total locations in 12 states, 160 employees, over 7,000 volunteers. We've served over 6,000 children. And we have 60 people waiting in a queue wanting to start an Isaiah 117 house. And a new video comes in every week and has so since March of 2020. That's the power of returning the favor. So thank you for finally saying yes. Thank you for finally saying yes to the feel good show.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, well, look, I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm so sick of hearing we did 100 episodes. It was canceled literally after the hundredth episode. I mean, do you know how weird that is? I mean, just in I'm not complaining at all. Zuckerberg told me to my face three years earlier. He said, I'm going to spend a billion dollars to find out if I even want to be in this space. It's not really what we do, you know, it was so weird, but people should understand. It was. We made a deal for five episodes because we were sure we'd never get to 10 and didn't really even want to. Just drips and drabs a little bit here, a little bit there, to wind up with 100 episodes. A dedicated Facebook page with over a million people in a community who are basically programming the show, just coming to me every day with more and more ideas. That's crazy. We won an Emmy, for God's sakes. To hear stories like yours, utterly transformational. I mean, lives have literally been saved as a result of us getting to a yes. And you not knowing who I am, which is still heartbreaking, but nevertheless, welcoming me into your house to tell your story. I mean. And so I'm literally on a call later today with Sarah. We're trying to figure out a way to get this rebooted without Facebook.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You have to do it.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, yeah, I guess, maybe so.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You have to. I mean. Yes. The phone started ringing. People started calling. I would say for the next two years, every home that we opened was a direct link to returning the favor. But now, every one of those homes, they are now opening homes because the neighboring county is like, oh, we want that. So now returning the favor is still opening homes. So, I mean, like, we'll never know. We'll never know. I still have to give Jesus and return the favor. And micro, you know, we can't just give. But, I mean, now you're one of three.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, this is you and Jesus a minute ago. I believe that's the Trinity. I think you might be wrong about that.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I think you're gonna get struck by lightning and I'm gonna scoot back. But, I mean, we'll never know. And I've told everybody that I meet. The fact that you would take your platform and use it for that good, it wasn't just Isaiah 117, house. It was everyone that was on the show. You know, all the good that was just exponentially multiplied. Like, you have to do it, whatever it is. I don't know the project well. And Sarah will make it good. I mean, she'll. She'll help you along.

[Mike Rowe]

You know, she's special, for sure. And she's gone on to do some really interesting things. We talked the other day, and as much crap as I give Rourke and, you know, the old crew, like, redemption really is the thing, and everybody's looking for it. And I don't mean it necessarily or exclusively in a biblical context. Whatever your line of work is, there are days when you feel like you made a difference, and there are days when you feel like you made little rocks out of big rocks, and you get too many of those days together, and then that's called drudgery. And you get too many of the other days together, and you just start to. Well, you can't function because you're overwhelmed by the stakes of the thing. So the question in that is, where are you with this? Because I worry. We joked earlier about, I gave you a drink of water from a fire hose. You know, not careful, take your head off. And we saw that happen with the show, too. There were some instances where it was too much. Not the surprise, not the reveal, not the money, but the attention. It's a heck of a thing when you point your cameras at a thing. And it was what you said right out of the gate. I didn't know your phone number was on the website. I didn't know your personal cell phone.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Was going to blow up. I changed my phone.

[Mike Rowe]

I bet you had.

[Rhonda Paulson]

And I begged the carrier not to give that number to anyone else. I was like, please, you just have to get rid of this number. Do not give this number to anybody else, please. No, I mean, you're right. I mean, I don't know if this is exactly what you're getting at, but I will tell you what happened to me. I was hospitalized four times in 2020, and it was just sheer. I became so overwhelmed with, how could I possibly say no to all these people that were calling? Because there's a child at the end of that. If I say no, there is a child at the end of that. No, there is a child in that community, in an office. Like, they're not wrong. They do need this, you know? And so I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And because we needed a house there. They were right. They needed a house. And what I've had to learn post 2020, and what I'm still learning, but I've gotten much better at, is God's not asking me to save the world. I mean, that's a God complex. No, no, no. I'm just supposed to do what I've been called to do one day at a time, one foot at a time, one step at a time.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, he's asking you to live in it.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I'M just called to do what I can do today. I hope that I'm inspiring others to just do what they're called to do today, but that's all I can do. And so that's where I am now. Like, let's all just do the good that we can do today, and then let's go to sleep and then let's get up and let's do the good we can do today, and then let's go to sleep. Because I didn't sleep in 2020. Let's go to sleep and let's do it again.

[Mike Rowe]

I nearly killed you.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I told him. He said, do you think you can come out? And I was like, ooh, I don't know. My pits are sweating. I'm having a little ptsd. Last time I met that man, he about killed me and my life changed forever. I don't know if I want to see him again. But, yeah, I mean, I think there's Corey.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm sorry too, man. Jeez.

[Rhonda Paulson]

It has all become beautiful. But I do think. Yeah, I just. No, I think for me, it's just we just all have to do our part. I'm not supposed to do it all. We're all supposed to do our part.

[Mike Rowe]

True. But what you said before, it's witnessing, and again, not just in the biblical context. I know what it means to witness, but I also know.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Are you afraid that I only think in the biblical context? I am capable of thinking, all right.

[Mike Rowe]

No, I'm not afraid of it, but I think sometimes people are. I am afraid of it. I was afraid of this story. In fact, full disclosure, I looked askance at all faith based stories initially, and it has nothing to do with my own lack of or preponderance of faith. You know, I think it's a fairly personal thing that I'm still happy to talk about, but on tv, it scares me because TV makes everything bigger. It makes everything more exaggerated. And I don't think faith ought to be exaggerated. And when I see public displays of it outside of the church, sometimes I file it under earnestness. And Travis McGee says, Be wary of all earnestness. True, he's a fictitious character, but I did base my entire business model on that. And so right back to that thing, it's like. It's a very nuanced thing. For me. It happened on Dirty Jobs too, where I wanted to pay an honest tribute to these people who do this work. But I didn't want to wrap them in a flag and I didn't want to turn them into Heroes. And I didn't want cello music playing in the background, and I didn't want to needlessly manipulate the viewer into feeling a certain way. So that's all my baggage that I'm bringing to this thing. But with regard to witnessing, the thing that changed my mind was you can't penalize people for being faithless or faithful. If you want to point your camera at it, then just point and let the chips fall. Take care of the edit as best you can and try to get your thumb off the scale. But what I learned was in the course of doing that show is that not only were the faith based initiatives the most compelling, we could have come at it exclusively for that. And I'm way more open to that now. Whatever the faith is. I've heard you, I think you said to me on that day, you said, my God is a big God. I don't remember how I responded, but I thought that's a fairly egalitarian way to put it. Like, in one simple sentence, you were acknowledging the fact that other people might have a whole separate set of beliefs, but yours is personal and you know the parameters of it.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I'm fully aware that my faith is mine. I don't believe I can talk about Isaiah 1:17 house without talking about my faith, because it is all in there together for me. I felt compelled to go to foster care because of my faith. I felt compelled to do this work because of my faith. So it's almost impossible for me to talk about one without the other, but for me. Anyone listening? I think we all should be compelled just to love our neighbor. You know, I mean, I think we all should be compelled to help the least of these. I think we all should be compelled to do good work. I mean, you know, it's not about my God or the God they protest.

[Mike Rowe]

Or it's compelled or convicted.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Ooh, convicted.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah. You're much better with vocabulary than me. Well, I mean, you've used two words today that. I had no idea what you're saying, but I didn't want to stop you.

[Mike Rowe]

Thanks for that. Do you remember what they were?

[Rhonda Paulson]

There was one that started with an S. I'm not sure about that one.

[Mike Rowe]

Sofa?

[Rhonda Paulson]

No.

[Mike Rowe]

Silly.

[Rhonda Paulson]

No.

[Mike Rowe]

Sanctimonious?

[Rhonda Paulson]

No.

[Mike Rowe]

Supercilious?

[Rhonda Paulson]

I don't know.

[Mike Rowe]

Sasquatch?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Bigfoot? No. Password? No. But I mean, yes, convicted. And I do feel like. Oh, no, I don't. I don't know if I should go there, but.

[Mike Rowe]

All right, well, think about it.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Okay.

[Mike Rowe]

And let me clarify what I mean. Compelled to me is a statist word. The state can compel me to do a thing through various legislative and so forth. All right. But a conviction is an internal thing that you feel duty bound or simply called to do. It's calling. A conviction is a calling. Unless it's the other kind of state conviction where they put you away, where you've been convicted. Not good. That's right. Yeah, good point.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah, it's interesting. Excellent point. Conviction that doesn't include jail time. That's the one I'm talking about.

[Mike Rowe]

There you go.

[Rhonda Paulson]

That kind of conviction. No conviction, for sure. Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

Okay.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I feel. Because I'll go back to one day, I feel like so many people are wanting the state to fix things, and if we just. The state will fix it. No, we. We should be convicted to do the right thing and to get out there and fix things. And that's why. And at the end of the episode, you're like, everybody needs a Rhonda. Which, if we could redo that episode, that one line. You do not need a Rhonda. Where's the camera? You do not need a Rhonda. Listen to me. No one needs a Rhonda except for Corey Paulson. No one needs her. But, you know, we need to all feel convicted. Yeah, especially. Yeah, especially right now.

[Mike Rowe]

But part of your job as the leader of this thing, at least for a time anyway, was to share that conviction. You had to be persuasive. You had to persuade your husband, who's sitting right there checking his Facebook status, no doubt, or maybe calling an early Uber.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I'm very, very persuasive.

[Mike Rowe]

How'd you get him to come around? And I know you're probably sick of telling this story, but it's important. I think there are probably a lot of people listening who are, at least, I hope, who will be convicted or possibly compelled to try and do something good, kind, decent, or better as a result of all this. But they have to understand, too, that those actions can have consequences, both unintended and intended. And that compulsion can impact those closest to them and probably will. Like, that's the price that nobody ever talks about. I tried to talk about it a lot on returning the favor, because people think about charities and they think about foundations, like their hobbies, but they're not. They're businesses with even more, in many cases, layers and challenges. And some of those can get pretty personal, including vasectomies.

[Rhonda Paulson]

That was pre Isaiah 117.

[Mike Rowe]

Was it?

[Rhonda Paulson]

It was. But no. Corey has sacrificed a lot. Yes. My family has sacrificed a lot. That is true. I did convince coerce manipulate Corey into going to classes to learn about foster care. That is true. He thought he was going on a date. We ended up in foster care classes.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Boy, that sounds great.

[Rhonda Paulson]

That date did not end like most dates should. I will say that. I will say that. But we went to that first week. He didn't say he wouldn't go back. So he did go to week two. He did go to week three when we left. Week three.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is a date, but you're not dating. You're married at this point.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Right, right, right. I asked him to go out on a date.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes.

[Rhonda Paulson]

He got his mom to watch the kids.

[Mike Rowe]

Date night.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Date night. We went out to eat. And then I said, hey, why don't we drive out to this church? And he was like, on our date, I was like, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be hot, hot date at the church. And we pulled in, there was tons of cars in the parking lot. And he was like, lots of people dating at the crossroads Christian church. And I was like, yeah, this place goes off, everybody's here. And so we go in, we sit down, this lady stands up. Welcome to your eight week study of foster care. I mean, he was so not happy. I tell everybody there was this notepad and we're supposed to take notes about the children. And he was writing hateful little notes and shoving them over. I was like, we're gonna get kicked out. And he's like, oh, I hope so. I mean, he was so mad at me. But in between. So we drove home that night and we did not speak. We did not speak all night long. We rolled opposite directions, didn't touch, didn't speak. And then the next morning, we got up and we didn't discuss it. We just acted normal. And then week two, we just met in the driveway and we drove out without speaking, and we drove home without speaking. And then week three, we met in the driveway and we drove out without speaking. And when we were coming home, week three, he said, I don't want to do this. And I said, hey, fair enough. I mean, you've been a good sport. I tricked you into it. We made it three weeks. Fair enough. And he said, oh, don't fair enough me, Rhonda. And I said, what? And he said, you and the Lord have wrecked me. I am a wrecked man. He was like, you've known me for 20 years. And I like, simple, safe, and predictable. And I don't know if you've noticed, but not one thing we have learned about the foster care system. Sounds simple, safe, and predictable. And I do not want to do this, but now I know. Like, now I know there are kids in our community with nowhere to go.

[Mike Rowe]

Now you know. See, that's. That's what I'm. That's the witnessing. I was talking.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Now I know.

[Mike Rowe]

You can't just see it, which is why that episode was as much about him as it was you. Sorry, we don't have another mic. Corey, I'd hook you up. All right, he's good. But seriously, wow. It's like that scene and It's a Wonderful Life. You remember when she.

[Rhonda Paulson]

It's my favorite Christmas movie.

[Mike Rowe]

It's a great movie.

[Rhonda Paulson]

My favorite.

[Mike Rowe]

But guess what? It's not a Christmas movie.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, don't do that to me. Every Christmas Eve.

[Mike Rowe]

I know. It takes place at Christmas. It's like Die Hard. It's like Die Hard, not a Christmas movie.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, wait. I mean, I'm just kidding.

[Mike Rowe]

It's kind of a horror movie, really, if you. I mean, what is more horrifying than to wake up one day and not have anyone you love know you. I mean.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Okay, we need to stop this. Okay, that is my favorite movie.

[Mike Rowe]

I thought, well, in the same way that you wrecked your husband's life, let me wreck your favorite movie. Okay?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Corey, Have I wrecked your life? There you go. There you go.

[Mike Rowe]

The luckiest man in the world.

[Rhonda Paulson]

On cue. On cue.

[Mike Rowe]

I have been blessed beyond my means. Life is good. No, there's a scene where Donna Reid is on the phone with Sam Wainwright, who's got all the money. Jimmy Stewart's there, and he loves her, but he doesn't want to love her. And he's jealous, but he doesn't want to be jealous. And he's got plans to travel the world. He's got all these plans in his mind, and he's so sure of it. But he saw something. He can't deny how he's feeling when he sees this woman talking on the phone with this guy. And her mother's on the extension upstairs listening. Remember? And Jimmy's. They're like, I'm not gonna do it. I don't. I hate. And he's just absolutely twisted up with this incredible cognitive dissonance and realizing that you. Yeah, man. It really doesn't matter what I want anymore.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, that's how he's lived 27 years. God love him. That's what it's like being married to me.

[Mike Rowe]

Everybody needs a Rhonda.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I said do not say that.

[Mike Rowe]

I just think that, that, I mean, that moment in that movie is so relatable to so many people because it's when you crumble. It's when you know, you can't quite say, okay, done, since you put it that way, let's do it. It's prior to that, but it's also after you kind of know the jig is up. And so what happened in week four?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, now we're united, so now we're in it. And I mean, it's just so eye opening. I tell people all the time because we have people come up and say, I don't know. I've always thought, maybe, but my husband's not on board. Or I've always thought, maybe, but we're. I'm like, just go take the classes. You're not signing up for anything. Just go take the classes. They're free. Just go take them. Because it is so eye opening just to learn. And I do believe that for a lot of people that if they knew you just got to know what's going on in your community, I think a lot of people would have a hard time turning a blind eye. And so that's what it was like for us to sit there week four, week five weeks, just to learn what the children are going through and that literally, they're in class with my children. They're on the soccer team. It's not these kids. It's not those kids over there? No, no. They're going to school among us. Yeah, they're on the soccer team. And it was just so heartbreaking. So heartbreaking.

[Mike Rowe]

So what happens after the course?

[Rhonda Paulson]

So after the course, I would like to say that we were so moved and so convicted that we just immediately said yes and. But it's not true. I mean, we said no for almost a year.

[Mike Rowe]

No to calls? No. No to calls.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I mean, it's a hard yes. Yeah, it's a hard yes. I mean, when they call you at 2am and say we have a sibling group of three and they have zero possessions and they all have lice, can we bring them to your home right now? It's a hard yes. I mean, we didn't even own a car big enough to haul. To go from a family of four to a family of seven overnight, that's a hard yes. I tell people all the time, the hardest thing God asked me to do through this whole process was to get a minivan. But I did it. I did it. And so we literally we, I did it. I did it. And it's true, once you do it, you can't go back. They're like, it's amazing. But anyway, we lived in this hundred year old farmhouse that we had redone. It only had three bedrooms. So we sold it and bought a home with more bedrooms. We sold my car and bought a minivan and we spent a year just kind of getting ourselves ready until we finally got the call for a nine month old little boy. And we said yes.

[Mike Rowe]

And that was Isaiah.

[Rhonda Paulson]

That was Isaiah.

[Mike Rowe]

Why him?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Well, unlike the picture that has been painted of me, Corey had one request. He was like one child. Like we're gonna say yes to one child. Not a sibling group of five. Not like one. We'll start with one child. And I will say for almost a year it was all sibling groups. And so he was the first call we received for one child.

[Mike Rowe]

Then what happened?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Then we lived it. Now it's not just what we learned in a class. Like we are picking up from the back door of the child welfare office. Now we're being handed a roach infested diaper bag and that's the only thing the kid owns. Now we're being handed a child that was just bathed in a drug testing sink. Now I am looking into the face of a child and so heartbroken because I'm like this nine month old, the only thing he owns in the world is a roach infested diaper bag and he was just bathed in a drug testing sink and he was just handed to me. Who he does not know. That's the plan. Like that is the plan. And I'm like, yeah, it actually is. I didn't even have a car seat. And so they were like, oh, hold on, we've got one. And I'm like, it's the dirtiest filthiest, you know, they hand me, they said bring it back tomorrow, we need it back. So I put this car seat in, we're driving home and I realized we have Nothing for a 9 month old. We have a 9 year old son and a 12 year old daughter. At the time we have not a thing for a baby. So I call a friend of mine and I'm like, we just said yes to a baby. I don't know. And so she starts calling and all our friends, our small group, our community starts showing up. They're bringing high chairs, they're putting up a crib in our guest room, they're bringing baby monitors. Somebody came by with $500, said buy him what he needs. I mean like for the next three days, our community just Showed up. And that was eye opening, too.

[Mike Rowe]

Now, was this church or was this community or both?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Both. Both. Soccer moms, people from church. We had a small group that wasn't affiliated with our church. It was just a group that got together and we're living life together, you know, so it was everybody. But I remember thinking, if Isaiah's mom had had this community, I wouldn't have Isaiah. And that was just a gut punch, huh? I wouldn't have him if she'd had this kind of support system.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Rhonda Paulson]

And. But also, how do foster parents say yes if they don't have this? Because Corey and I were doing fine financially. I mean, we're not, but we're doing fine. We couldn't afford to go buy everything a baby needed at a moment's notice. So, like, how did foster parents say yes? And like, you get a clothing stipend, $150 that I received eight weeks later when he was no longer naked. I mean, how do you say yes? And so that was another eye opening moment. Like, how do foster parents say yes? Well, no wonder nobody's saying yes, but we need them to say yes. And so it was all these pieces of the puzzle coming together, like removal day. That's the plan. This is how we pick them up. This is all the support foster parents are getting. But we need them to say yes. And we've got caseworkers picking lice out, and they're spending the night in offices with children. I mean, it was just like. And I had this friend Julie, and we would talk. She had gone through the classes, we met in classes, and she had said yes to a baby. And we would talk every week. And every time we got off the phone, we would say, our husbands are not going to let us bring them all home, but we got to do something because this cannot be the plan. That's what we would say every week. This cannot be the plan. And that was from 2015 to 2017. Like, this can't honestly be the plan.

[Mike Rowe]

Getting back to me for a second.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, please.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. It had been a while.

[Rhonda Paulson]

It had been a while. Yes. I'll get my drink of water. You go.

[Mike Rowe]

I think about returning the favor. Like a pyramid, in a way. And I used to say a thing on the show highlighting people was slightly better than you and me. And I meant it because I think at the top of the pyramid, we have people who are nearly utterly selfless. They're just people who, well, with respect, would have taken the three, would have taken the four. It wouldn't have mattered. Some of the people in, like, the Sound of Hope, which I'm sure, like, give me the worst and give me all of them. All right? Those people are almost another species, right? They're there at the top, and then under them, you've got these extraordinary people who are in it, but have their own life, and they're not quite ready to blow the whole thing up, but they'll blow up part of it. And then the further down you get, the more just regular folks you want to know. I'm down there toward the bottom, maybe middle slightly. And I know, though. I know that when I meet people who. Who are so clearly doing a thing that I'm not willing to do, I can support them. And that makes me feel good, because I don't want to do what they're doing. I don't want to foster a kid. I got too much going on. I don't know if you've looked around, but kind of a big deal. You didn't know me.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

You don't know me.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Supposedly, Supposedly, supposedly, you are famous.

[Mike Rowe]

I can't compromise that level of B list, quasi celebrity.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You know, if you want to put that on a shirt, you can use it. You don't even. Actually, I signed something. You can use it all throughout the universe.

[Mike Rowe]

But I'm not so fallen and not so craven that I don't want to help. And I want to help as I can in my own crappy industry. And I can also write checks and do things on a personal level. I know that most people are like that. And I know that most people, when they witness the thing, when they see the thing, they will be convicted to do something. The question is, what? What did Bishop Martin inspire those people to do, you know, through the power of his personality? Whatever the answer is, that's. I think we started talking about persuasion at the beginning of this thing because that's a lot of what TV is, and that's a lot of what you do day in and day out. And that's what any effective person I've ever met ultimately has to grapple with. How can I best persuade people to join me in my effort to make the Isaiah House a household name? Right. Or whatever it is? So I'm just throwing that in there, because if I'm right in my theory, then the vast majority of people listening are rooting for you, but they won't do what you've done, and then a big chunk of those people will actually help you do more of what you're doing and so forth and so on. And more than anything else, Rhonda, that's what returning the favor proved to me. It proved the pyramid was real. There are only so many Rhonda Paulson's and Luke Mickelson's, and I can go down the list. But there are a lot of people who are rooting for you, who want to help. And even though they sent you in the hospital four times in 2020 with their love calling your number, which for some reason, you put on the World Wide Web, I don't know.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I don't know. I did not know what I was doing. It's very clear.

[Mike Rowe]

Right. But that's another quality of the level of bloody Do Gooderism I'm talking about, and it goes to preparedness. How prepared do you need to be to take action? If the answer is somewhat, then you're probably sane. If the answer is not at all, then I don't know what to say. And if the answer is completely and utterly and totally prepared, then you're at the bottom of the pyramid. Right.

[Rhonda Paulson]

You'll be paralyzed forever.

[Mike Rowe]

Correct?

[Rhonda Paulson]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Correct. So what do you think? I mean, do we all get moments of clarity in life where we just have to decide? Do we all get that breakdown after the third meeting like Corey had where he's like, oh, damn it, I don't want this. But I see it.

[Rhonda Paulson]

I mean, well, two things as you were talking. One thing I see the pyramid, but one thing that I've had the privilege to experience is there's more people up here than you realize, because the people that are coming to want to start an Isaiah 1:17 house, they're all up here, and there's a ton of them, and they go and they do it, and they are coming, and they are putting everything on hold because they want this for the children of their community. And they are working their tails off. And, I mean, I'm meeting them day after day after day, and they are loving and kind and talented and enthusiastic, and they're just doing it.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm not saying they're few in number.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm saying in relative terms, but they're amazing.

[Rhonda Paulson]

They are outnumbered, maybe, but it's amazing to see, like, they just keep coming. And it just. It does my heart so good. I mean, it's just been so good for my soul to see. We get to see, unfortunately, the absolute worst of humanity in the work that we do. But I also get to see the best. Like, they just keep showing up. Like, it's unbelievable. But to what you just said, I can only speak to What I've experienced. I do think in our core, we all know what we are being convicted to do. And when we say yes, there is a freedom and a happiness and a joy and a blessing that we experience that we will not experience when we say no doesn't make us better or less than or. There's just a joy and a happiness that we won't tap into when we continue to say no to that conviction.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, there is certainly a freedom that comes, paradoxically, with the realization that you don't have a choice and that you're not really in charge when you let go. I get that. I get that, but that's. It's the old trust exercise you remember from acting class way back. You know, you're standing on the edge of the stage and your buddies are behind you, and they're going to catch you. All you have to do is fall straight back. You got to put your faith in something else now. Doesn't always work out, but there's freedom in the choice, you know? Did you feel like you were falling for a while there?

[Rhonda Paulson]

It's been a wild ride. It's been a wild ride. But when Chuck called and we got on the screen and he said, do you think you could come out to California? I said, I ended up in the hospital four times. He blew my life up. I nearly died. I'm having hives right now. I'm sweating. But I will forever be indebted to you. And I don't say that lightly forever, because there are over 6,000 children that have walked through a little red door because you said yes to returning the favor. And so I gladly got on a plane to come out here, even though I'm sweating right now, too, because I will forever be indebted. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful.

[Mike Rowe]

You made me cry on my own stupid podcast firing Chuck.

[Rhonda Paulson]

So thank you.

[Mike Rowe]

Hey, we're a. We're part of a mosaic, I think. Look at me with the metaphors. Pyramids and mosaics, brick walls and grout and tile. I don't. I'll take the credit for saying yes when I said it. I can't take much credit beyond that. I really, truly looked for people toward the top of that pyramid. I asked Sarah to look for them. They knew the mandate. You're right. They're everywhere. They're the neighbors you wish you had, and you're among them for sure. And we would have deemed that whole adventure a success had your number not been right there on the World Wide Web. Look, you didn't sign up for it. But the fact that it's happened is wonderful. And I guess I'd be derelict if I didn't say, I mean, clearly you're not calling the shots. Clearly you're not really in control of any of this. But what do you want to see happen with the time you have left on this blue ball whirling around the city? What do you want Isaiah House to become? And what do you honestly reasonably think can happen if the people who are watching this decide to blow you up again?

[Rhonda Paulson]

I want to see the church mobilized. I want to see them stop pointing fingers at the state. I want us to step into our calling. I want us to stop being afraid. You know, so many people are afraid. I couldn't bring that child into my house. It's a child in need. I want legislation, change. It's not in favor of the child and it leaves a child in limbo for years and years and years. And then it makes a really hardened teen that then stays in limbo and then it just keeps the cycle going. I want to see Isaiah 1:17 else's continue to grow and be a safe place for children to be reminded that they are not alone, they are not in trouble, that they are loved and that there is hope. I think that's what I want.

[Mike Rowe]

What can people do down there on the lower parts of the pyramid who were just saying, all right, all right, you got me, you got me, you got me. I was just minding my own business, flicking around the YouTubes and I saw this woman and you got me. What do you want?

[Rhonda Paulson]

If you have thought ever about being a foster parent, you are needed. So find out in your local community where you could take a class and just take the classes. If you want to support Isaiah 117 House, visit our website. It's all right there. Isaiah117house.com. If you want to do anything like Isaiah 117 House, you don't need a Rhonda. I didn't have a Rhonda. You don't need a Rhonda. Don't be paralyzed by the big picture. Just take it one step at a time. I do believe we are all called to be part of this solution in different ways, but I do believe we are all called to be part of the solution. So I think that's it.

[Mike Rowe]

That's beautiful. We're going to give this thing a shot. Actually, I'm serious about that. I'm going to talk to Sarah. Mary's all in. We've got another production company who's game. No idea what will come of it. But every now and then you gotta say yes, right?

[Rhonda Paulson]

You do. You do.

[Mike Rowe]

Thanks for coming out.

[Rhonda Paulson]

Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure.

[Mike Rowe]

If you leave some stars could you make it five and before you go could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars could you make it five and before you go could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars could you make it five and before you go before you go could you please subscribe?