442: Salina Zito—America's Journalist

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 442 - Selena Zito—America's Journalist

Introduction and Guest Background Timestamp: 00:04 – 05:16

In the opening segment, host Mike Rowe warmly welcomes Selena Zito, highlighting her as a prominent journalist with a deep-rooted passion for the American working class. Rowe introduces Selena's new book, "Butler," which delves into the day when she was nearly four feet away from President Donald Trump during an assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. This event not only shaped her career but also forged an unexpected bond between Selena and Trump.

Notable Quote:

• Mike Rowe (00:50): "Not that big, but pretty big. Selena Zito is back with us for, I don't know, maybe the fourth time."

The Bond Between Selena Zito and President Trump Timestamp: 05:16 – 12:20

Selena shares her experiences reporting on President Trump, emphasizing their unique rapport. Despite Trump's general disdain for the media, he singled out Selena, referring to her as "my Selena" and reaching out multiple times after the assassination attempt. This mutual respect led to numerous interviews and interactions, solidifying Selena's position as a trusted journalist.

Notable Quote:

• Selena Zito (07:32): "I almost always stop in a barber shop or a beauty salon when I'm out reporting. Best stories, best little connections."

Impact of the U.S. Steel Deal and AI Energy Revolution Timestamp: 12:20 – 25:17

The conversation shifts to the resurgence of U.S. Steel and the burgeoning AI energy sector in Pennsylvania. Selena underscores the historical significance of U.S. Steel as America's first billion-dollar company and its role in revitalizing Rust Belt communities. The recent deal with Nippon Steel not only saves thousands of jobs but also injects substantial investment into upgrading aging mills.

Rowe and Selena discuss the parallel rise of AI energy hubs, likening the current developments to the industrial revolution. They highlight the critical need for skilled labor to support these advancements and the inevitable job creation across the trades.

Notable Quotes:

• Selena Zito (16:27): "U.S. steel is the country's and the world's first billion dollar company. It was the first mega company in the world."
• Mike Rowe (19:26): "AI is electricity. Electricity will drive the data centers."

Politics, Media, and the Role of Journalism Timestamp: 25:17 – 48:18

Selena critiques the current political landscape and media's failure to adequately cover significant events outside the metropolitan hubs. She emphasizes Pennsylvania's pivotal role in national politics, describing it as a microcosm of the broader American electorate. Their discussion touches on President Trump's influence, his swift decision-making style, and the long-term implications for future administrations.

Rowe shares his discontent with the perception of the working class in media narratives, advocating for a balanced portrayal that honors both the tangible and intangible contributions of American workers.

Notable Quotes:

• Selena Zito (30:04): "The solution is very simple. Unfortunately, having them exercise that solution is the challenge."
• Mike Rowe (45:34): "Future presidents are going to be weighed and measured by the speed with which they act."

The Assassination Attempt in Butler and Its Aftermath Timestamp: 48:18 – 70:54

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the assassination attempt in Butler. Selena recounts the harrowing experience of being mere feet away from President Trump when he was shot. She describes Trump's immediate response, highlighting his focus on maintaining composure and inspiring resilience in the crowd.

The incident not only impacted Trump personally but also reinforced Selena's commitment to journalism that captures the essence of everyday Americans. The conversation delves into the emotional and political ramifications of the event, emphasizing its historical importance.

Notable Quotes:

• Selena Zito (56:28): "He turns around, and that's when he says, fight, fight, fight."
• Mike Rowe (70:53): "He slightly grabbed his ear. I see the blood streak across his face."

The Future of Trades and Workforce Development Timestamp: 70:54 – 83:08

Rowe and Selena discuss the critical shortage in skilled trades and the surge of job opportunities in sectors like submarine manufacturing and data processing centers. They advocate for increased educational initiatives and scholarships to prepare the next generation for these high-demand industries.

Selena emphasizes the importance of storytelling in highlighting the vital roles of tradespeople, from welders to volunteer firefighters, and the need for media to support and inspire future workers.

Notable Quotes:

• Selena Zito (78:44): "I've written about it several times. I've showcased people that have been doing that."
• Mike Rowe (77:52): "If Pennsylvania can lead that charge, I'll join you there anytime."

Final Reflections and Closing Remarks Timestamp: 83:08 – End

In their closing remarks, both hosts reflect on the profound impact of Selena's work and the importance of focusing on stories that celebrate and uplift the American workforce. They acknowledge the challenges ahead but remain optimistic about the collective effort to strengthen the nation's economic and social fabric.

Notable Quote:

• Selena Zito (92:09): "This is an historic moment... These are the stories I will always write."

Conclusion Episode 442 of "The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe" offers an in-depth exploration of Selena Zito's journalism career, her significant encounter with President Trump, and the broader implications for American industry and workforce development. Through engaging dialogue and poignant anecdotes, the episode underscores the resilience of the American spirit and the pivotal role of media in shaping national narratives.

Transcript

[Mike Rowe]

Well, hello, friends. It's Mike Rowe. It's the way I heard it. And we don't do the episode thing anymore, do we? Well, you can in this case, because I know it's going to be episode 442. All right, so it's episode 442. Some old habits are coming back. Because I'm not in person today, we're doing this long distance because our guest is a very big deal. Big deal. Big, big, busy deal. Some might say huge. Now, careful, you may be creating an expectation. Not that big. Not that big, but pretty big. Selena Zito is back with us for, I don't know, maybe the fourth time. Third. Fourth. Fifth time. Fourth. I think it's fourth, yeah. Fourth. You'll hear me say this to her momentarily, face to virtual face. But I'm just so proud of my friend for the career she's led and for what's happened to her and around her in this last year. Her new book is called Butler because she was four feet from President Trump when he was very nearly assassinated. And she's written a book in part about that day, but about some other things, too, that are relevant and adjacent and I think really interesting. Have you had a chance to read it yet? No, I've pre ordered it. It comes out today, but I got the audible version because I want to hear it read. To me, it's a great read. And I honestly say that regardless of what you think about the 45th and 47th president, it's not about that. But full disclosure, these two have formed a bond. There's an article in the Times very recently. I mean, Trump hates the media. He's crystal clear about it, with one exception. Selena Zito. Selena Zito. Yes. He calls her my Selena. And he called her no less than seven times 24 hours after the assassination attempt, because she saw it all and he saw it all and they saw each other. And she was there to interview him after the event, an occasion that was obviously postponed but has since been made good on many times. So here we have a guest on my little podcast who's been coming on for the last couple of years, who now has a direct line to the White House, who has now written a book about this event, which I think is only going to grow in relevance as time goes on. It's going to be a historical day, and I think it's fair to say that who knows what the outcome will be the election would have been, but for this day, we don't know, you know, but we do spend some time Talking about these moments in history. Some feel consequential, some not. But they all have brought us to wherever it is we are today. We're calling this episode America's Journalist. Not because there aren't many fine journalists in this country, but I don't know of any who love the country more or the people in it than Selena Zito. She shows up, Chuck. The woman. She's showing up. Yeah, well, she showed up here. Exactly. And I'm grateful. Otherwise, what a short episode this would be. You know her, you love her. In moments, you're going to know her even better and love her even more right after this. Dumb. So I had a meeting just a couple of months ago with Linda McMahon, who, as you may know, is currently the Secretary of Education. It wasn't just the two of us. In the meeting, there were a dozen or so proponents of alternative methods of learning, all present. And while not everybody agreed with everybody on every single issue, nobody disagreed with the fact that our public education system has been weighed and measured and found wanting. That's why I'm happy to tell you about the incredible impact of K12's career and college program prep. This is a great way for high school students to explore high demand industries and equip them with relevant skills before they make a career decision that'll affect the rest of their lives. With K12's career in college prep, they'll build connections with professionals through internships and networking opportunities and get assistance with job placement, including the important business of crafting a resume and preparing for a real world interview. And if your student chooses to go to college, K12 can help them with every step from finding the right schools for their needs to providing expert guidance on applying for scholarships and financial aid. Plus, students can get a head start by earning college credits in dual enrollment programs while they're still in high school. Just go to k12.com row today to learn more and find a K12 powered school near you. That's the letter K, the number 12.com roe the letter K, the number 12 dot com row and you know we're rolling now we're. Now we're rolling. Hi, Selena.

[Selena Zito]

Hi, Mr. Rowe. How are you today?

[Mike Rowe]

It's Mr. Mike Rowe. I think I've earned it.

[Selena Zito]

Is it Mike Rowe or Mr. Michael Rowe?

[Mike Rowe]

It depends. A, are you my mother? And B, are you angry?

[Selena Zito]

Well, I feel like. Middle name is anger. What's your middle name?

[Mike Rowe]

My middle name's Gregory.

[Selena Zito]

Michael Gregory. Does he feel like you're in trouble now?

[Mike Rowe]

I did, yeah. You Actually frightened me.

[Selena Zito]

Scared you?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, you know, you've got a lot of experience. I'm sure you've put the fear of God into your. How many grandkids now are we talking about?

[Selena Zito]

Four grandchildren. Yeah. Yeah. They've gotten the middle name treatment, mostly to get them out of danger.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah. And.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, my goodness. Eleanor. And get out of the street.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, right.

[Selena Zito]

Rocco. Michael, don't touch the stove. What are you thinking? Yeah, it's like that.

[Mike Rowe]

Or Donald John Duck, I bet. Yeah, right. Hang on one second. Mike, before you go any further, I'm hearing you, but you sound a little muffled. Does he sound muffled to you, Selena? No, he's coming in crystal clear.

[Selena Zito]

He's coming in crystal clear. You need to get a haircut right here.

[Mike Rowe]

Me?

[Selena Zito]

No, him.

[Mike Rowe]

Got it scheduled for Monday, sadly.

[Selena Zito]

I'm thinking it's the haircut that you can't hear.

[Mike Rowe]

What kind of world are we in, man, where men, full grown men, have to schedule haircuts.

[Selena Zito]

I know. Didn't you just, like, walk into the barbershop and, like, give me a trip?

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, I did. I get it. If I'm looking at your mop, you need a team of people to come in. They got to put down a drop cloth. There's probably spotters and all kinds of. All kinds of additives. I used to go to a guy named Frank in Baltimore who flew a bomber in the Korean War and just had a stack of, like, vintage Playboys, you know, and like, all that stuff. Like, I can. Like Vitalis and all these old ads, and these dudes would just sit around and tell stories, and I would.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know, like, there's a lot of.

[Selena Zito]

Barber shops like that still around the country.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

I almost always stop in a barber shop or a beauty salon when I'm out reporting. Best stories, best little. They're like the country clubs for the. For the small towns.

[Mike Rowe]

That's awesome. What else? Like, what other places have you found in your vast resume of reportage where you can actually hear the truth?

[Selena Zito]

Well, as you know, a big diner person, I love diners. Mainly because I like dippy eggs, rye toast, dry, with butter on the side. That's my jam. I have never been in a diner where I haven't had a really good conversation with someone. Even if it's, you know, it doesn't have to be about politics, just about life. Where have you been? What have you done? What? You know, what are your grandkids doing? Those kinds of things. Church basements, always good. Especially with the Lutherans. Yeah. Their Casserole dish dinners are beyond the pale.

[Mike Rowe]

Now, we were Presbyterian, so we were dealing with a whole list of issues, obviously. But we had in the church basement a small stage maybe two feet off the floor with a curtain. And this is the place where we would have Lenten dinners, of course. And then every so often, some act would come in. And I just. I think the first time I remember seeing people on stage was on that tiny little stage after a Lenten dinner. And the curtain opened and there was some sort of trio singing some sort of song I had never heard.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Seared now and what's left of my memory. Crazy, isn't it, how those little slices of Americana and connection stick with you?

[Selena Zito]

Yeah, they're really special. They still go on. My little grandchildren just had a recital in a basement of a Lutheran church. And there was a little stage. They're not learning. We're Catholic. We're really Catholic. But, you know, that's where their recital was. Like, we're extra Catholic.

[Mike Rowe]

You're stigmatic Catholic.

[Selena Zito]

We do, like, guilt, like a profession, right? Like, we have PhDs in guilt and other stuff, too, but mostly guilt. You know, there was the little reception afterwards after they run the little stage with their piano. And then we had, like, covered dish, you know, that jello salad with, like, the pretzels and the cream cheese.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes, yes. The stuff that used to appear in, like, those Betty Crocker books. Like, I had a show in mind. I actually pitched it once. I think you would have enjoyed it. But the idea was I'd go around the country and. And meet the, like, the great great granddaughters or great granddaughters of women who had these, like a meatloaf casserole or something deeply gelatinous and suspicious, right? And we would cook that recipe together and I would join them for dinner.

[Selena Zito]

That would be amazing. So I collect old cookbooks. You know, how they would be in the communities where, you know, they fundraised off of the cookbooks. And each is, to your point, like, a woman was famous for her meatloaf gelatin casserole that had peas, like, stuffed in the middle, like a bundt cake. I collect those and they are joyful, just not even for the recipes because they're a little bit scary, but the stories are awesome. Like, you can just imagine the person, right? And she.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, well, you know, I nearly sold it in the room and might very well have if I hadn't insisted on calling it Eat Me. But that was the deal killer. So I never, you know, I couldn't get it out of development. But I came close to Lena.

[Selena Zito]

I'm really sorry that didn't happen because it would have been joyful and awesome.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm spending some time talking to you about the utter minutia of things because I know we're going to get to some very big things very quickly. Let me first just say I'm so proud of you to watch what has happened. I hope that doesn't sound at all patronizing, you know, but I've just. And I know I speak for Chuck, too, when I say we're just so delighted to have met you. When we did so Ran, I was literally sitting here waiting to do a live hit on Fox News.

[Selena Zito]

Tucker.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah. And you were on right before me.

[Selena Zito]

In South Dakota covering the oil field workers, the pipeline workers.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. I had no idea who you were, but I said when I came up, I'm like, that woman has got her big hairy head screwed on great. I really. I just love the way you were reporting. And I've since dug into a lot of what you wrote in the past, and obviously the book that's coming out now, I guess it'll be out now by the time this drops, right? Yeah, it drops. This is going to go live the day it drops.

[Selena Zito]

So Happy Book Day.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, yes. This is a big day. It's a big book. It's called Butler Happy Book Day. And look, I'm sorry I'm not with you in person. We talked a couple of months ago about coming to Butler and sitting down and recording a conversation face to face, but I swear to God, woman, you're busy. I'm busy. And thanks to you. Not to get bogged down with too much inside baseball, but Selena has connected us, my foundation, to some of her many contacts in the world. And I don't know what's going on, hun, but it's like a memo went out. It did to every CEO, to every governor. I mean, I'm not doing anything different than I've done in 17 years. But our little foundation is exploding. And the people you've connected me to, they have means, they have resources. They want to help. I think, thanks to you. I'll just say it now. I'm not. I'm making me cry. Okay, well, I'm going to make you cry right now. I'm 99% sure that this year we're going to award $5 million in work ethic scholarships, and I've never come close to that. And you are the proximate cause of it.

[Selena Zito]

So you do everything. I just I'm really good at connecting people when seeing what something matches up. And we are about to have an explosion of jobs needed in the trade industry. AI is a game changer and it's a game changer in places like all across the West. Oklahoma, Texas, but also Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia. Because of the energy resources. We are going to need thousands, tens of thousands of jobs. And if you hadn't sparked that idea that we need to start educating our children in a meaningful way that gives them skill to, you know, I mean, these kids are artisans. They're not welders, they're artisans. Right. They're not carpenters, they're artisans. They make things and they're such an important fabric of the engine of this country and that you guys recognize that and, and made a difference. It's an obligation to continue to pay that forward with any way you can.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, it's a privilege and a unique thrill to see the headlines catch up to your own smack years later. You know, I mean, I haven't been wrong about the big ideas around this, but I haven't been proven right. And I'm certainly not ready to take a victory lap. But things are trending in that direction.

[Selena Zito]

Well, 20,000 jobs just, just announced in Pennsylvania in the last month and $20 billion in investment, that's just an AI and the infrastructure to build the data processing centers, but also for the natural gas fired power plants. That's not even counting what's happening with this U.S. steel Nippon deal where that's another thousands and thousands of jobs.

[Mike Rowe]

Explain to people what's happened. You're really talking about US Steel. A couple years ago it was just, and I think I speak for a lot of people who, who don't even really understand the industry. But just the thought of losing U.S. steel was such a gut punch. I was so surprised. Like without even really understanding a lot of the relevant facts that led up to that deal, it just felt so horrible to see the U.S. lose U.S. steel.

[Selena Zito]

You know, U.S. steel is the country's and the world's first billion dollar company. It was the first mega company in the world. Right. And it was a symbol of grit and making things and ushering in the industrial revolution.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes.

[Selena Zito]

And it is the reason we have, you look at the infrastructure, whether it's a small town or a large city, if you look at the infrastructure, it's more than likely that U.S. steel was at the heart of, of it and during the 70s. And because I'm elderly, I have lived through the experience of watching everything gutted beginning in September of 1977 in Youngstown, where tens of thousands of men and women lost their jobs in the mill and changed every. Changed lives, changed families. The communities were just eviscerated. You know, churches closed, schools closed, tax base gone. There are 4,732 stealer bars across the country and including in Rome. Why? Because so many people were fractured and had to move away. But they longed for that cultural touchstone, that chunk of home that they didn't have anymore. People opened stealer bars across the world. And so that just shows you that connective tissue that was torn apart. To see US Steel being not only saved, right, the jobs that are there are saved, but also the reinvestment in these big hulking mills. And there's some great photos of me if you go on Instagram of me working in the mill. It's like the highlight of my career. They need to be upgraded, but those cost millions of dollars to upgrade. So there'll be an infusion of cash not only in those mills, but there. I was just talking to the plant manager today at U.S. steel. Yeah, we're hired a whole bunch of people. I just interviewed a whole stack of people today. That brings the Rust Belt back, all right? That keeps those communities intact and expands them so people can not only stay living by their parents or their grandparents, but generations going forward will also be able to have that ability. You walk into U.S. steel today with a high school education and the ability to willing to learn a trade. You're walking in making 120,000 a year. And that's just U.S. steel. That's not even the AI and the.

[Mike Rowe]

Data processing plants now that these things are adjacent. And Chuck was with me. Actually, I was at an energy conference a couple of months ago down in Newport. Rick Perry was there.

[Selena Zito]

He texted me a picture at the same time you guys texted me a picture. I'm like, what's you? What's going on, guys?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, this is when I started to think that something had really tipped for two things he said two things that I'll never forget. The first was these data centers. All right, we gotta start thinking about calling them something else, because they've already got a bad rap in terms of just those words.

[Selena Zito]

Right, right, right.

[Mike Rowe]

People are like, oh, God, a data center's coming and now my whole town's gonna go to hell or whatever, right? It's like, no, no, no, no. AI is electricity. Electricity will drive the data centers. And the guy that was there, Raj, who works at aligned, he's built 50 of these things.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, I know him. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

All north of a billion dollars, Selena.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

He's got contracts for twice that number.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And they can't build them for the lack of skilled labor.

[Selena Zito]

Right.

[Mike Rowe]

So when Rick Perry starts talking about this whole thing, he likens it to the Manhattan Project.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

A modern day Manhattan Project. And he is ringing the alarm and then he said the craziest thing. And this sounds like the worst humble brag and so vainglorious. But I'll tell you anyway, because I can tell you anything.

[Selena Zito]

It's just you, and it's just the three of us here. We're fine. We're just. We're fine.

[Mike Rowe]

He looks out from the stage, across the audience and like, there's the CEO of EQT and some of the biggest energy companies, Toby Rice. Toby Rice, who you also introduced me to. Thank you very much.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And he says, palmer, Lucky. Palmer Lucky. Like all the cats are there.

[Selena Zito]

And.

[Mike Rowe]

And Rick looks over at me and this is kind of in the morning. I'm not going to talk till later in the day. And I'm just sitting there eating my eggs, waking up, sipping coffee, and he points it right at me and he goes, that guy sitting right there is the most important guy in the room. And let me tell you why. I don't blush much. But I sat there and I. I was like looking at my shoes, going, where in the world is he going? You know, so he's not wrong.

[Selena Zito]

We're having this big energy conference coming up in Pennsylvania in July 15th. AI Energy, first one ever. Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh is like the center of AI because of CMU, which, by the way, made the first AI computer in 1953. So we are in the center of all this intellect and the. And intelligence and engineers, but also this workforce that's ready to go. So it's just a really, really exciting time. And I just think back to a year ago, and there was. There wasn't this hope and purpose that we have right now.

[Mike Rowe]

It occurs to me that Selena Zito, like many other guests on this podcast, really is a true American giant. I think she's one of the most important journalists working today, not because of her opinions on the current president, but because she spent her entire career writing about everyday Americans who make the things we all depend on. People like the sewers and the cutters and the dyers who make American Giant clothing right here in America. For 15 years now, American Giant has been delivering on a pledge to. To make American clothing spun from American cotton, crafted by American workers who live in The American towns where American Giant decided to build their factories and invest their resources. Today, they're not just cranking out quality sweatshirts and T shirts and jeans and all the other essentials. They're creating jobs in this country, reinvigorating towns in this nation, and proving that it's still possible to make quality goods at a fair price in these United States. This is why I encourage you to support American Giant and all the other sponsors of this podcast who insist on making their goods here. The right way is never the easiest way. But if we want to be truly independent, we can't depend on other countries to grow our food and mine our energy and provide our timber and manufacture our medicine or make our clothes. So do me a favor. Go to american-giant.com mike and buy something awesome. You'll have a lot to choose from. You can use code Mike, get 20% off your order at american-giant.com Mike. American Giant, American made. American Giant, American made. Well, again, this is for me, we have, as of the end of this Last enrollment period, 10 times the number of applicants than we did a year ago today. 10 times. So, like, on the one hand, I look at that and I'm thinking, this is extraordinary. And it's good news. On the other hand, we get calls every week, whether it's from the submarine base or from the automotive agency. I mean, 80,000 employees there, 20,000 new ones in Pennsylvania. The submarines need 140,000. Energy is, what, somewhere between 3 and 500,000. So, like, how are your. I mean, because you're. I mean, I think you've got a direct line to the White House at this point. I know you're talking with people who are making key decisions every single day. Do you think that the memo is truly gone out? Are these guys really ready to ring the alarm bell and get behind some kind of national effort to reinvigorate the trades?

[Selena Zito]

Absolutely. President is 100% behind this. This is a big agenda item for him, something that he wants to be very supportive, but not just supportive of, but to your point, sound the alarm bell. Tell young people that here is a pathway for you that is a pathway to prosperity and success, but also is patriotic because you are making the country go. You are part of something bigger than self. You're going to hear in his speech on July 15, that moment happened, and it's going to be a really big moment, and I think it's going to be really, really important.

[Mike Rowe]

Wow. Well, I'm glad because I'll tell you, there's still A ton of work to do. I just got off a plane. I was in Aspen for this thing I'm sure you've heard of, the Aspen Ideas Festival. Yeah, well, look, as a rule, I'm leery of events that are festivals or gatherings or symposiums, and I learned a lot at this, and I'm really glad I went. But the opening conversation is one that I want to just bounce off here real quick. You've got Fareed Zakaria talking to Walter Isaacson. And so for those who don't know, Fareed's been at CNN for close to 30 years, I think. And Walter used to run CNN. He also used to run Time, and he's written Benjamin Franklin and so many great books.

[Selena Zito]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, these two have a conversation in front of five or six hundred enlightened folks, and Fareed actually says with a straight face, our economy is broken into two different halves. The wealthy half deals with assets that are ephemeral, bits and bytes and ideas. Right. And thoughts. And the other half work with their hands, and they're doomed. He says they can't make a living working like that. So we have to. And this opens up the whole. I'm literally biting through my lip, Selina. I want to just stand up and scream, that's not true. It's insane. But he's smart.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't think he's wise, and I don't think he's correct on this point. But looking around the room, the vast majority of those people were nodding in agreement. We are still beset and burdened with some basic misconceptions. And again, I just want to thank you for writing about this as much as you do.

[Selena Zito]

Because.

[Mike Rowe]

Because, look, the reason I don't want to take a victory lap is because it's hard to know when I'm preaching to the choir. But I was not among the congregants yesterday. I was among a lot of people who saw the world differently. And ironically, they're trapped in the past. They're trapped in their own stereotypes.

[Selena Zito]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

So how in the world do we cut through at that level?

[Selena Zito]

You know, the problem at that level? The solution is very simple. Unfortunately, having them exercise that solution is the challenge. Right. You know, if I had a wish list of things I wanted to accomplish, I would take Fareed across Pennsylvania for a couple days. Not in a limo, not on a plane, not on a Greyhound either, but, like, in the car. And see, see? And look at the places that are pops of prosperity, like Luzerne county and bucks county, where $10 billion was just announced in A.I. right. These are huge. These are absolutely huge. And these are six figure jobs. And six figures goes a lot away in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, as opposed to if you lived in Connecticut or any of the surroundings, surrounding counties of Washington D.C. but they don't know anybody like that. They don't communicate with someone like that. Our cultural curators, people like Fareed, people that run that are sort of in the boardrooms or shared sharetaker, not sharetakers. Shareholders in large companies all operate out of these super zip codes. And so they see this world very, very differently. And their world exists, but so does my world. As I look down my street, I would say half the people work with their hands. The other half of the people are engineers or work in energy. And they all make good livings. They all have nice tidy homes, nothing extravagant, but they're living a good life. They go on vacation every year. And so the idea that that is dying and is sort of part of what was the problem with the last administration. And they looked through it in that very, very narrow view and they tried to push the country in that direction, but the country pulled back because they said, no, we have these lives that are based on these are working with their hands and we're doing okay. I don't know why you don't see that. Meaning them, not you.

[Mike Rowe]

No. Well, I mean, I think you do know why they don't see it. They're not looking at it, but I.

[Selena Zito]

Think they're not there. They don't come to places like where I live.

[Mike Rowe]

Correct. Because if he's a curator, you're a connector. Connectors talk about their great grandmother's recipes. They put the peas in the meatloaf gelatinous casserole in a Bundt can.

[Selena Zito]

In a Bundt pan.

[Mike Rowe]

Right. They talk about the little stage and they talk about Lenten dinners and they talk about diners and they talk about, you know, two ears and one mouth and listening to people. What do they call him? The guy yesterday in that Times article. Just unbelievable. You've got to read the article in the Times about Selena, the Trump whisperer, the woman who.

[Selena Zito]

That was really, really embarrassing.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, but come on. Maybe you liked it a little.

[Selena Zito]

I don't know. It was up for six hours before I would even look at it. I made everyone in my family read it before I read it. Yeah, because I'm like, oh, I'm so uncomfortable with attention. You know, when I went into journalism, nobody knew who the journalist was. Right. You were behind the scenes working your Butt off. You know, asking questions at a crime scene, whatever it may be, a political rally, and now all of a sudden, you're sort of thrust out there. I still have not, even in my elderly years, gotten used to that.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, but you better, because not only have you written this book, they're going to make a movie about you. They're making a movie about you, in part because you are still taking the back roads. You are still interviewing people in diners and barbershops. You are still out there in a way that I think makes a lot of people both nostalgic and comfortable at the same time. And for whatever reason, you have certainly captured the affection of the President of the United States. And so I guess maybe the question is, if you're embarrassed by a love letter in the New York Times simply because it's all about you, what the hell's gonna happen to you when you see yourself up on the big screen brought to life by. I don't know who's gonna play you. Do you know?

[Selena Zito]

I mean, I feel like it should be Marisa Tomei, but because of the hair.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Selena Zito]

And being a little cheeky, but. And we're about the same age, but I suspect, you know, people are gonna misread that. Butler is just about President Trump. It mostly is. It's mostly about that day, but it's also a lot about what was happening on the ground in the country. But it's also about journalism. It's about preserving what's sacred and important about journalism and how we've lost our way in so many ways.

[Mike Rowe]

It's also about history. I love the way you start this book. And just. I imagine the overwhelming majority of people both listening to this and just walking around the country, have no idea of the historical significance of the very acres on which you guys were standing a year ago this month. Riff for a moment, if you'd be so kind on all that.

[Selena Zito]

So, in 1754, George Washington, who was a member of the Colonial army, right, was part of Britain. He was on a survey. Not on a survey. I'm sorry. He was on a mission to go to Fort Le Buff, which is basically Erie, Pennsylvania, today. At that time, there were the Colonies, and then there was New France, which went all the way from Louisiana all the way up into Canada. And the French were taking over the part of the colonies where places like Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh were. And the King, George, with a letter, sent little George, George Washington up there to tell them to go away. And George boldly does that. And his travel up there was insane. It was. I mean, even the terrain today is crazy. You know, this is Appalachia, right? Deep gullies, hollows, mountains. And he goes up there and just December, and he tells the commander, the French commander, you know, y' all gotta leave. And I'm shortening it. But he's also really smart. There's this sort of back and forth with the command. The French commander, you know, this little game that they played where he, you know, he led Washington on, like he's paying attention. But Washington's a really smart young guy. He has his diary there. He notes that they're stocking up on canoes and guns and, you know, something is happening, right? They're building an arsenal. And so he sends Washington on his way and says, yeah, no, we're not doing that. And Washington leaves, and he leaves with Christopher Guest, who is his. Or Gist. Not Guest. That's the guy who, you know, waiting for Guffman.

[Mike Rowe]

Fine actor, Spinal Tap.

[Selena Zito]

Great actor, Spinal Tap, exactly. But they get to Butler, and all of a sudden there are these two French Indians, because the Indians were aligned with either the French or the English. These two French Indians are like, hey, George, we'll carry your bags for you. I'm doing this like drunk. Like drunk history, right? And I'm not drinking, except for espresso. But they're like, hey, George. And so Washington, who's exhausted, it's been snowing, it's freezing, he's pissed off, and he's like, yeah, here, take my bags. Well, one of the scouts takes his bags, goes 15 steps, turns around and shoots point blank at him. Nearly misses him in the way that President Trump was. Was nearly missed. And I think it's significant to point that out. First of all, two presidents shot in Butler. But think about how different the country would be if George Washington had died there at 24. There's. There. Who else? I mean, I am a student of history, and I can't imagine who, of all the men that served under Washington would have the comportment and the tactical understanding, but also that political finesse that Washington had to have been able to accomplish what he did in the American Revolution. That wouldn't have happened. How different would we be? How completely different would we be? And you have to think about the same thing with President Trump. There would be no U.S. steel deal. Those lies, those jobs wouldn't have been saved. There would have been no AI energy hubs because they were against it. You know, there wouldn't have been him giving people in East Liverpool the money to have Their health tracked for the next 20 years. That wouldn't have happened. There wouldn't have been what happened. A 12 day war that maybe essentially changed how things happened in the Middle East. There would have been no end in Iran's nuclear proliferation. And so it really makes you think how significant what happened in Butler on that day in 2024, had he just not turned his head, had he not put that chart down like Ross Perot, like, what was that?

[Mike Rowe]

I know.

[Selena Zito]

You know, it's mind blowing to consider.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, the whole notion of sliding doors has always interested me. And life is a game of inches, millimeters, last minute decisions, just seemingly completely inconsequential. And yet I don't know that there is an inconsequential decision that anybody has ever made from, you know, running a red light to not running a red light. But the crazy thing about your comparison, and by crazy, I mean only to say that it's barely been a year.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And you just went down a laundry list of things that are, I don't care how you voted. Undeniably consequential. It's easy to look back over 270 years or whatever and say, good grief, what if that Indian would have hit the father of their country? But I mean, this is happening so fast. And maybe that's a good way to kind of pivot into the speed of the news cycle and the speed of your own life and the speed that everything that's happened has happened. And just like on a micro level, how are you keeping pace? And on a macro level, you know, where are we headed? No pressure, but if you called it right in 2016, what do you. What is Selena Zito seeing now that her compatriots are, are missing? As you know, I am unapologetically fond of all the sponsors on this podcast, but only one, to my knowledge, anyway, saves lives on a regular basis from this audience, and that would be LifeVac. So far, 16 people in this audience are alive who otherwise would not be because they listened to Arthur Lee and I have a conversation a couple years ago and they listened to these ads and they got a LifeVac and it's in their house and now they're alive because of it. I'm not overstating it. This happens all of the time all over the world. Now, LifeVac has saved over 4200 lives in 31 countries. The Texas Senate just passed a bill requiring airway clearance devices in all schools in Texas, and Governor Abbott has signed it. This is a hu huge deal. And with luck, every Other state will follow. If you have a smoke alarm, if you have a fire extinguisher, then it's because you're sane and normal and you're preparing for the unexpected. Get a LifeVac 2. They're not expensive and they are truly a lifesaver. Knockoffs are a problem. Be careful when you're online to get the real deal. The China versions are just not cutting it. They're out there. So heads up. Lifevac.net use code mike. You'll get 20% off your first order. Lifevac l I f e v a c.net cause it's no joke when you choke it's no joke when you choke so get life back and live without breath there'll be death so get life back and live get life back and live get life back and live Life back and live.

[Selena Zito]

Whether you like President Trump or not, you cannot deny, in the same way you could not deny about FDR and the New Deal Democrats, that he has fundamentally changed American politics. He has occupied a space that will 15 years, that will have been larger than what Roosevelt occupied when he was president.

[Mike Rowe]

You know what else I think he's done, too? And I think it's safe to say this in a completely nonpartisan way. Future presidents are going to be weighed and measured by the speed with which they act. And until now, that speed has all lived pretty much in a lane, some slightly faster than others. But by and large, right. By and large, the pace is ponderous. Yes, it's by design, but this, you're right. I think he's changed politics in a lot of different ways. But the way we can't possibly know yet is how this is going to impact future presidents. And what's the next man or woman in that office going to think when they look at their first hundred days and go, well, where's the benchmark? I think we know.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. You know, men or women, we haven't had a woman yet. Do not become president without the working class, without the middle class. You just don't. And he has broken the new. The long line of the New Deal Democrat coalition. You know, people often say that Barack Obama. I've said Barack Obama did that and not 2008 New Deal Democrats. They were with Barack Obama in 2008. By 2012, that changed because he went through a more social justice program. Right. And climate justice. So that gave no room for the working class to be in there because climate justice eliminates their jobs. So Barack Obama in 2012, people forget this. He's the first president to ever earn less votes in his re election to office the second time than he did the first time in Pennsylvania alone. And I think always think that Pennsylvania is just such a microcosm of understanding where American voters are because. Cause we sort of have everything here, right? In Pennsylvania alone, he went from winning 10%, almost 11% of the vote to under 5% in 2012. They didn't go to Mitt Romney. They thought he was a nice guy, but they also thought he looked like the guy that would like, bring a box to your desk and escort you out. Right. They didn't see a guy that was like, I have your back. I'm going to break stuff and I have your back. So Trump comes along and he breaks all of that in 2016. I have long argued in 2020, the 2020. Everyone said in that election cycle when Joe Biden won that, see, Donald Trump was a fluke and the Republicans are going to go back to being Republicans and the Democrats are going to go back to being Democrats. And I'm like, now y' all are reading it wrong. Joe Biden will end up being the fluke. And he will be the fluke mostly because of COVID We were all sort of a mess. Right. Everything was just not where we were used to it. And so I think that in history, Joe Biden will go down as the fluke and Donald Trump will own the space in our history between 2015 and. And if JD Vance or Marco Rubio become our next president after him, he will own then an additional four years he will own till I can't add 32. So, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

What a missed opportunity for Joe Biden to simply do what he said he was going to do. Yeah, to be a transitional figure. You know, I mean, I don't want to. It's just too easy to target at this point. But back in, I guess it was 2012 through very weird set of circumstances, I wound up in Mitt Romney's trailer. I had shown up to participate in a manufacturing roundtable and it turned into this rally and I should not have been there. I didn't want to be a part of that. But the press was there and the photo op was done and it was me and Mitt on stage together. And, you know, that sent an unfortunate message. But point is, afterwards, he. He apologized. He was very gracious and he told.

[Selena Zito]

Nicest guy he was.

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, he said, look, this guy, Mike Rowe was invited for this. Now he's here. And when I told him and when he saw that it turned into a rally I fully expected him to leave because he was very clear that he's running an apolitical foundation and didn't want to be a part of that. But he said, no, I'm here. I said I'd be here. And so he thanked me and I thanked him again. None of it matters because a photo is a gajillion words. But afterwards, he literally looked at me, Selena, and said, well, any advice? What would you do? And I said, seriously, you're asking me? And he said, yeah, I'm curious. What would you do if you were me? How do I reach these people? He said, look, I'm a gajillionaire. Everybody knows it. And I'm talking to regular working people, the people you profile on, dirty jobs all the time. And I said, well, if you really want to win, I'd go on TV and I'd have a flip chart right next to me and I would embrace my inner geek. Because you are. You're a wonk. Right? You're a numbers guy. You're a. Right. You're a bain cat. Like, just explain to the country like a businessman what you're going to do. Walk them through the whole thing and then promise one term and out. We are desperate for somebody to say, even back then, somebody who didn't want the job so damn badly they would do or say whatever their focus groups told them to do and say. I said, just promise four. Just say, look, I can get it done in four years. I'm good at this. And then I'll be done.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. You did the Olympics. You could do it.

[Mike Rowe]

I was naive. It's impossible. No one. I don't. Except the aforementioned George Washington took a pass on a third term.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And Joe Biden promised one term.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And they changed his mind. And so here we are. What a time. What a time.

[Selena Zito]

It is extraordinary to be a part of history, don't you think? Because you guys are part of it. And you're a part of it.

[Mike Rowe]

You're a part of it. You're making it. I guess maybe we all are, but, I mean.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah, no, we all are. If you wouldn't have embraced this. There's this saying that I have, hanging up my bedroom says it makes a difference to eternity whether we choose to do right or wrong today. Meaning? Well, no matter the most granual thing that we do, it has an impact being out on the forefront for the working person. Right. Being out there and celebrating being a welder, celebrating being a carpenter, a mechanic, whatever it may, a hairdresser, whatever it may. Be someone that is in the trades is something that hasn't been done since I was in high school, and we.

[Mike Rowe]

Were in high school pretty much the same time. Close to it, anyway.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know. Well, look, I want to go back to US Steel for a minute, because that's a really important point, and it's one that Isaacson made yesterday to Farid. At least he tried to. He tried to articulate the importance of work beyond the transactional, just beyond the paycheck. And when you were talking about US Steel and when you were talking about all those Steelers bars, how many did you say?

[Selena Zito]

Over 4,000, 4,672. I think.

[Mike Rowe]

That's amazing, but I get it, because I was in Baltimore when the Colts left in the middle of the night.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, I'm so sorry. That was so sad. I remember thinking that was so terrible.

[Mike Rowe]

It was. I mean, it's an entity that is armed with everything you gave it. They're leaving with your hopes and your dreams and your investment, your time, all those things, right? So whether it's a company or a sports franchise or a lover, you know, whether it's big or small, whether you're just talking about a divorce or a country riven in half and trying to get itself reconnected, this is a very powerful thing. And we don't need curators like Fareed. We need connectors. We need people who are genuinely curious enough to go into the other side. So my question at the end of all that is to ask you to talk about the Washington Post. And how in the hell did a jagged little pill like you, who does not write in a style that that paper would typically embrace, has empowered you to write for them on a regular basis? I was very happy for you when you told me about it, but I was also happy for the Post because I think they could be the ultimate beneficiary of this.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah, so they came to me, I guess it was September of last year, and they said, would you be interested, like, you know, would you be interested in doing a monthly piece? And I laughed. So, like, wait, did you call the wrong person?

[Mike Rowe]

Do you know who I am?

[Selena Zito]

And it wasn't like, don't you know I am? It was like, don't you know I am? And we just started a conversation, and we just kept going back and forth. And I said, I don't want to do anything different than the way I do it. You know, I go out there, I report a story, and I don't. If you read my stories, even though I'm considered A columnist. There's not really an opinion in them. They're reported columns. Right. That get out there and I talk to people and I listen to people and I try to take all that fabric of what I've learned and try to make sense of it and tell a good story about what's happening in the country. So the first one I did was I sat down with for the first time, Dave McCoy McCormick and John Fetterman. Now it's a regular. It's a regular two man show, right?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Now McCormick is the senator.

[Selena Zito]

Yes, David McCormick is a senator from Pennsylvania. Republican. And John Fetterman is also a senator from Pennsylvania, but a Democrat. Then I went to US Steel and spent the day at US Steel. That was. And got to tell. I mean, it was the best day of my career. I really got to get in there and talk to those guys. Guys and tell their story. And they let me drive a million dooll truck. They're crazy, but they let you know it was awesome. And then the third story was AI and energy. And I talk about this brand new plant that's being. I mean, when I was talking to my editors about this AI data center that was $10 billion AI data center that's going to be fueled by natural gas because AI data centers are thirsty, but they just require so much electricity. And it's going to happen on a hill in western Pennsylvania, Indiana county where Jimmy Stewart was born. And they're like, wait, what? What? Pennsylvania doesn't go in like Silicon Valley? No. And so it's been a joy to introduce new readers to the stories that I write. The story that would be out the day this podcast comes out is a sit down with President Trump, but also with Helen Compatore and myself.

[Mike Rowe]

Now that be the widow, the fireman who died.

[Selena Zito]

Yes. And it is a gutting interview with, with both of them, just really emotional. And it comes through in the book how much President Trump has been impacted by what happened that day. Not because of himself, but because of the death of Corey, someone who came to have fun with his family. Like, if you've ever gone to a Trump rally, they're like a Jimmy Buffett concert. Right. Except without parrot heads. That people are just in patriotic gear and they're happy and they're joyful and it's like a lot of fun. And for someone to be coming to experience that and then hear him talk and be killed, that's really been rough on President Trump. And it really comes through in the butler book when we, we have several interviews and he talks about that. And he talks about God a lot. The hand of God, but. So those are the first four stories that I've done for the. The Washington Post. And the readers really like them. To my great surprise, I don't really get the mean, super mean comments in the comment section. I've also learned not to read them.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, but avoid the comment section.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah, it's where souls go to die, isn't it?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, yeah. I mean, you have to ask yourself why, like, before you go and start reading comments, you should really be honest with yourself. What do I hope to learn here? And if the answer is I hope to read things that make me feel really good, then just choose to feel really good. And don't run the risk of falling through the ice because it's cold down there.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, yeah, Go have a popsicle or a shot of whiskey. Don't read the comment section. It's not a good place. A very dark place.

[Mike Rowe]

You. You were. Speaking of dark places, you were what, 4ft from him on that day?

[Selena Zito]

I was 4ft from the president.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. So look, help me here a little bit. You're a very good interviewer and I'm trying to ask you questions that I think that I would want to be asked if I were in your place. But I'm also aware that you must be sick to death of answering the same questions.

[Selena Zito]

No, not at all. Well, I want people to know about this day.

[Mike Rowe]

Okay, then tell them because. And obviously tell me whatever story from the book you think matters most. But if you can do it. In service to the idea that we may have moved on from this event a little too quickly. Yeah, it sure felt like. Like something so big happened and then I don't know if it's the news site or what, but how in the world did that not dominate Shameless Plug? So I'm not yet 100% sure, but it's looking very likely that the Microworks foundation is going to be able to award a record setting $5 million in work ethics scholarships this year. Wouldn't be possible without the generous support of our corporate donors and individuals and people who listen to this podcast and of course, people who enjoy Noble Tennessee Whiskey. Yes, my granddad's Whiskey continues to raise money for the foundation that was inspired by him, Karl Noble. Noblespirits.com, k n o B E L. Try some of the original juice or the Rick house or the barrel strength or the single barrel or the rye. They're all delicious. And the. And proceeds benefit the Mikeroworks Foundation. Right now, if you spend 100 [e-mail], you also get nine orange sugar infused cubes that are perfect for making an instant old fashioned. Every time you just muddle up one there in a old fashioned glass filled with noble and poof, you're done. Anyway, people love them and I'm so grateful for all the support and all of the donors and all of the people with the sophisticated palate to enjoy my granddad's whiskey. Go get some at K N O B E L spirits dot com. Thanks. Soon may the nobleman come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waiting is done, we'll take a drink and go.

[Selena Zito]

It should have dominated for weeks. It's still. We should still be talking about it. I'll give the readers a little bit of insight. There's two things you should know about me. Interviews never freak me out. It doesn't matter who I'm interviewing. It's just a conversation. That's how I approach it. The one thing that does freak me out is logistics. I hate logistics. Because you're out of control. You know, when you're going to a Trump rally, it's like, I gotta get there like five hours early. You know, there's gonna be traffic. What if I forgot something and I can't get in my id? It's like my. I'm a sick super head case about that. The idea that day was I was going to interview President Trump five minutes before the rally and I was like, it's gonna be longer. He loves to talk. Right? Like I was, I was not gonna, I wasn't counting on five minutes. But I wrote down on my piece of paper my four questions I was gonna ask him, crumble it up and stuck it in inside my wallet. And my daughter was with me and my son in law, my daughter's a photojournalist. My son in law we brought with us because we thought he would carry the equipment and we would stay looking very poised in 102 degree weather. That didn't happen. So we all just ended up being hot. We get there, we get on time, we're out in the blazing heat doing some interviews, talking to people. And about two hours before the president's supposed to get there, I get a text that says, hey, we're running late. So text from who was it? Susie Wiles.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, chief of staff.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. Which is co. Campaign chair. Yeah, yeah, co her and Chris Lacivita, who is from Pittsburgh. He's a yinzer. He was the other co Campaign chair. And so I get the text, and I'm like, oh, there it is. When you're a journalist, like, 60% of the time, the interview you're supposed to have isn't going to happen, and you have to expect it. I'm like, there it is. It's not happening. And I get a text, like, right after that, and she says, we're going to do it after because we're running late. I'm like, okay. And I. I text Chris Lesavita, what the heck is this? It's going to get canceled, isn't it? Like, it's not my usual reaction, but I was really hot and I was really hungry.

[Mike Rowe]

You're getting it slowed up, right?

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. And he's like, no, no, no, no. We're going to. It's going to be fine. You're fine, Zito. You're fine. By the way, Chris La Civita is famous for putting me on a horse in my first interview that I did with a candidate that he was running in Virginia, and he thought I wouldn't do it, and I just jump right up on there. And he's had respect and love for me ever since. So that. So he says, it's okay. It's gonna happen. And then I get a text from Susie Wiles and says, hey, so we don't think we have enough time to do the interview. I'm like, there it is. And then she does this great pause, right? It's like, you know, leaving me, like. And then she said, so how would you feel about flying to Bedminster? I'm like, oh, okay. I didn't see that coming. So I asked my daughter and her husband if they could go. They have four little kids. So I didn't, you know, like, watching. I watch the four little kids all the time, but there's not a lot of other people that have. There are a lot. But we got someone to watch the kids. And about five minutes before, like, Trump lands, and everybody's all happy, you know, the buzz goes around. He's behind the stage, he does this thing called a click line where he meets with mostly first responders and pulls some people out of the crowd and just, you know, like, meets them, shakes her hand, asks about their life. And so he's back there, and all of a sudden, this young man, his name was Michelle Picard iii, he comes, he's the campaign press guy, and he goes, it's go time. I'm like, wait, what? We're going now? So we go running through the crowd. We get behind the we get behind the stage, my daughter's like exhausted. We're like, we're soaked. My son in law's with us. And we get to this click line and I looked at Michelle Picard and I said, where are we doing this interview? And he like looks at me very sheepishly. He goes, I don't know. So he goes around and he asks President Trump, and President Trump said, where's my Selena? And he comes back, Michelle Picard comes back and he goes, yeah, you're not interviewing now. He just wants to say hi. So I go around, he's like, there, look. Doesn't she have the best hair in journalism? And I said, no. Mike Rowe calls it a mop. So apparently I don't. And we talk about my grandchildren. And you know, he's like, do you, do you, do you know, you okay with coming on the plane? I'm like, yeah, right. Like, I wouldn't be okay with that. I mean, I didn't say that. I get really quiet. I'm like, yes, sir, I'm fine, sir.

[Mike Rowe]

What kind of plane is he in at this point?

[Selena Zito]

Trump Force one.

[Mike Rowe]

Trump Force, okay.

[Selena Zito]

Trump force won. And so we, he goes, you know, we talk about grandchildren, we talk about Pennsylvania. He goes, all right, I'll see you in the plane right after. So at that point, I can hear the music outside and there's like a certain number of certain songs that go in order. And it's time for him to go on stage. Michelle Picard looks at myself and my daughter and Shannon and my son in law, Michael, and he says, yeah, you're just gonna have to go in the buffer because you're just gonna have to leave to go in the motorcade.

[Mike Rowe]

Explain what the buffer is.

[Selena Zito]

Buffer? Yeah, the buffer is this area between the stage where the President is and where the audience, where the rally goers are. And it's probably an eight foot wide area, mostly Secret services in it and photojournalists and that's it. They have the pool spray. So the pool spray will go through and take photos as he goes in and goes out and just takes shots of the crowd. And so Shannon, Mike and I are in the pool, are in the buffer. So if you look at the COVID of Butler, which I'm going to show everyone. See where's your. Oh, you got your copy?

[Mike Rowe]

I got it right there. Got advanced copy?

[Selena Zito]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you look at that cover, my daughter took that photo. We're following him out.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, wow.

[Selena Zito]

In the buffer. And you can see like that photo illustrates so much that is important because you see that his relationship with the crowd is very transactional. He feeds off of them. They feed off of him. It's a very emotional connection.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, look at the faces.

[Selena Zito]

And so we're in the buffer. We follow him out. We go in front of the podium, we have some great shots, great video all the way around. We eventually go off to the side because that's where we'll exit for the motorcade. It's like four minutes into his speech, and this chart goes down. I'm like, what is he, Ross Perot? He never has a chart. And the second thing that caught my. Just in a flicker. He never turns his neck away like this. He'll turn his body away, but he never faces away from the crowd. In that moment, he did. He turns his neck. The truck goes down. He turns his neck, pop, pop, pop, pop. And I see him grab his ear. I see the blood streak across his face. I see a sea of blue come out around him. He doesn't fall down. That was the first thing I know that. I'm like, okay, he went down on his own. Like, it's really. You know, people say things happen in slow motion. That definitely happened in slow motion. I watched the whole thing in slow motion. I can still replay every second of it, every smell, everything. And he. The sea of blue comes around him. I'm still standing. I've got the recorder on in my phone. Not because I'm trying, just because I had it on, right? Because I wanted to record as soon as speech. I'm not thinking about that. I hear four more pops, and then Michelle Picard takes me down into the ground. And. And I can see the whole thing. I hear the whole conversation he has with the Secret Service. I hear him insist on putting his shoes on before he stands up, which is almost like. It was almost like comic relief in that moment because he was so, so insistent that his shoes were on. And some of the things that stand out to me is there was no panic in that crowd. That panic. That crowd kept saying, usa. And I can see Trump. He's almost facing me at this point. And I hear him mouth, usa. He doesn't say it out loud. He's facing the crowd, the crowd that was behind him, not the big crowd in the farm field. And he turns around, and that's when he says, fight, fight, fight. And they take him past me. His hat got knocked off, but the Secret Service person had it in the crook of their hands, right? There is a guy in camo as they take him past Me that has a gun right at my face. And for some reason, I wasn't afraid. I just knew that they were protecting him. And they take him, and they walk past me, and his hat just slowly falls right in front of me. I just remember feeling like I heard it land. I didn't. There was something about that moment that felt powerful, that people can read the rest of what happened the rest of that day. But I think what's really important, and this is, you know, the beginning of the rest of the book, is he calls me the next morning, and am I allowed to swear?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

Okay. He calls me the next morning. I don't usually swear like a truck driver, but only when I'm really like, something, whatever. He calls me the next morning, and he said. Well, before I could even say hello, he said, selena, are you okay? Are Shannon and Michael okay? And I said, are you kidding me? You were just shot, and you're asking how I am? It was really quiet. He would go on, and people will read it in the book. He called me seven times that day. Some very, very powerful conversations. And the one I will share right now that I think people don't understand, because I asked him, just like I asked him last week when I went on Air Force One. Can't believe, like, community college. Selena went to Air Force. Air Force One. Right. I asked him that day, and I repeated last week when we were talking, why did you say, fight, fight, fight, fight? And he said, I wasn't Donald Trump in that moment. I was representing the country. I had to show the country that we are going to be okay. We are going to survive this. I could not show weakness. I didn't want people that were there to panic, and I didn't want people at home to panic because I knew they were watching it. So in that moment, I. I was saying, fight, fight, fight for our country, for the office of the presidency, not for myself. And that really, really got me.

[Mike Rowe]

I chokes me up.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Actually, I called Chuck. I watched it happen.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And I think the first thing I said was, well, he's going to win.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And I wonder how long it took you to even triangulate that.

[Selena Zito]

Interesting that you asked that. There are two moments that happened within a year of each other. First, him showing up in East Palestine, Ohio. That was a big inflection moment for President Trump at that moment. If you look back at the polling, this is when the primary. So this is February 23rd. Right. He'd been down in the polls, and Ron DeSantis had just taken the Lead over him in the New Hampshire primary. And he shows up in East Palestine and I'm there, but I'm. I don't talk to him. I put a baseball cap on my head and sunglasses on, even though it was like Appalachia gray, right. But I didn't want to be seen. I just really wanted to soak this up. And it was awful that day. There was sleet, there was snow. If you look at him, he has galoshes. He's got his pants tucked in his galoshes. He's got a big trench coat on. It shows up with a couple 18 wheelers filled with water bottles. Trump water because he's always the salesman. And he buys all the public safety people, the first responders, McDonald's. And he walks all the way through town. He walks through those puddles. And you know that my reporting on East Palestine, it was scary there. I reported on that for weeks. And I would go home with the worst headaches. It was terrible. You didn't know. We didn't know what we were in those puddles. We still don't. And he showed up in that moment. And I said, this is. He won this primary. And within two weeks, he pulled ahead in that primary and never looked back. And then Butler happens. And I felt like Butler just reinforced that, not because he was shot as much as because of how he responded to being shot and how he embraced faith in that moment. People make fun of it. You know, people are awkward with faith. You know, you. And it's because we, you know, a lot of us were taught to be humble about our faith, right? And so people didn't believe it. But I have seen it repeatedly with him, that this was a big, powerful moment with him, with God. If East Palestine was the beginning, Butler was the defining moment. I couldn't imagine him not winning my state. And if he doesn't win, if he wins my state of Pennsylvania, then he wins Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada and North Carolina because those states are just a tinge less Democrat than Pennsylvania is.

[Mike Rowe]

Is that why you think the Post reached out? Do you think they've realized? I know you believe this, but I'll just ask it anyway. Is Pennsylvania truly the hinge in this whole thing?

[Selena Zito]

That's exactly. That's exactly. They reached out because as they believe, Pennsylvania is the it state. You know, California used to be the it state. Sorry. Sorry, guys. Pennsylvania is where everything happens. It's going to be the center of the 250.

[Mike Rowe]

Celebration.

[Selena Zito]

Celebration. It is the center of innovation and workforce development. It is the center of politics, it's the center of culture. And because it has a generous mix of everything that the country is, including.

[Mike Rowe]

That little something something back in the day in Titusville, I believe. Edmund Drake, as I recall.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. Colonel Drake, who wasn't really a colonel. That's where the first industrial revolution was. That began because of the oil that was discovered in Titusville.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Selena Zito]

Because at that point we're talking 1853. Ish. 59. 59. Factories couldn't be open after dark. Right. If they could. But it was really expensive and we were killing all the whales to do it. Right.

[Mike Rowe]

Down to like half a dozen. I mean, we'd waged a holy war on the right Whales, we called them.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. And so, you know, because of what happened in Titusville that fed that just the way natural gas will be feeding the AI revolution, the next industrial revolution, people aren't going to think of AI as an industrial revolution because they don't understand the concept of, of how workforce is part of AI. They think Silicon Valley, they should think welders, they should think plumbers. That's the AI revolution.

[Mike Rowe]

Because if I didn't make this point, I think I made it too subtly before and had I got a word in the other day at the Ideas Festival, I would have said this to Fareed. How ironic that those two sides of the economy as you've described them, among the perils facing the work with your hands crew was the idea of being outsourced by robots. I couldn't go anywhere for years without somebody asking me, mike, do you really think the robots are going to come and come completely upend the skilled trades as we understand them? And you know, I answered as best I could, not having a crystal ball. But now, which half of the economy is about to be more materially disrupted by the advent of AI? It's going to be that half that is dealing with the ephemeral thoughts and assets and bits and bytes. It's going to be the people who have been the highest paid by and large. He's not wrong about that in a, you know, if he's going to paint with that broader brush. But those are the people looking over their shoulders now. And part of the memo that you've helped me put out and that I'm. I hope I can help you double down on is just to completely turn that upside down because you're 100% right. The future. Yeah, look. Plus it's a false choice. It's not oh, my mind or my hand.

[Selena Zito]

Right.

[Mike Rowe]

Just got it. It's two Sides of the same coin, for God's sakes. And if Pennsylvania can lead that charge, I'll join you there anytime.

[Selena Zito]

Well, that would be fun. Look, no profession is going to get hit harder than mine by AI AP report, that can be done by AI but going to a diner, going in a steel mill. Oh, then the next story I'm doing for the Washington Post, I am following a piece of coal from a coal wall. A wall. Coal wall. I used to be able to talk all the way up to the top of the mine, onto a dump truck, onto a train on a barge to a coal fired power plant. So that can't be done by AI you can't show that texture, that feeling, those people that you interact with. And those are the people that are going to keep their jobs. They're not going to be replaced by AI but my profession. Unless you hustle and get out there.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. There's no shortcuts. Somebody sent me a. A tape not long ago. They asked the AI to narrate a couple of paragraphs for some corporate video in the style of Mike Rowe narrating Deadliest Catch. And so I listened to it. I clicked on the link and because I knew what I was listening to, I was able to discern some moments that weren't quite right. But had you not told me or had you said, hey, Mike, do you remember recording this? It was like 12 years ago and it was for some industrial. You did. I would have listened to it and said, no, I don't remember doing it, but obviously I did. Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, that's scary.

[Mike Rowe]

That is scary.

[Selena Zito]

That is so scary.

[Mike Rowe]

And it's top of the first inning, so all those little clicks and little things, that's gonna be gone soon. Screenwriters are just in a flat out panic for the same reason, I guess some journalists are. But you're right, the good ones will continue to show up. I mean, that's the thing. Thing show up.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

I remember talking to you after Palestine. And you know, whenever I talk to Selena, folks, I, I always have a notepad nearby because I like to jot things down. She always says something smart. But that's what you said that day. You just said, he showed up, Mike.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

It didn't. Never mind the McDonald's, never mind the galoshes, never mind the Trump branded water or all the other things people might look at to say, oh, what an opportunist. Right?

[Selena Zito]

That's what everybody wrote about.

[Mike Rowe]

Right?

[Selena Zito]

But I wrote about him showing up.

[Mike Rowe]

He showed up.

[Selena Zito]

Yes. That was the difference. That's What I saw and what more people should have. Like, that's what's wrong with my profession. You're writing about, oh, he used Trump water. And there's like a. Like a think piece about using Trump water. And I'm like, you idiot. Idiots. Sorry. Jesus. It's about showing up. Because you remember that song by Billy Joel, Allentown. I think we've had this discussion before, okay? And everybody sang along with Allentown, Right? But not everybody lived in Allentown, but they felt that they saw themselves in it. Well, people looked at East Palestine and saw themselves.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, well, that's right. But a whole lot of other people, elected officials, people in positions of power and leadership, they didn't. So here's an honest question. Did they not show up because they're craven, because they're indifferent, or did they just look at a thing and see something else? Else?

[Selena Zito]

It's an indifference. It's an indifference. It's an absolute indifference. You know, I talked to a lot of my friends who were strategists and sort of attached to the Biden administration or campaign people, Right. And half of them were split. The ones that understand were like, God, show up. What is wrong with you? It took them 398 White House press releases to finally get to it. 398 from the day it happened until they finally acknowledged it in the word right House press briefings. And the other half were like, it's so what? Right. They're. They're just like, so what? I mean, it's East Palestine. Nobody died. No. So we don't care.

[Mike Rowe]

The woman that you connected me with, I'm not going to drop her name just yet because we haven't done a press release. But we were talking last night over dinner, and I asked her about West North Carolina.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And she got very emotional. Her company does a lot of business in that part of the country. And there are people there, Selena, now, who left their jobs in Charlotte and other neighboring towns and they just moved there to volunteer and help. They're still there.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, yeah. I've been there several times.

[Mike Rowe]

But the volunteers are still. The place is still in ruins. They're building it back. Like, when I look at journalism, I see, like, two things. It's being ignored geographically and for the same reasons, the same indifference, I think that led a lot of people to conclude there was really nothing to write about in East Palestine. But they're also missing one of the greatest stories. One of the greatest stories. One of the most. I mean, if you're looking for humanity, if you're trying to find the neighbors you wish you had. Find the people in western North Carolina who have been volunteering, who have taken indefinite leaves of absences from their companies to be there for their neighbors, to help them.

[Selena Zito]

I've written about it several times. I've showcased people that have been doing that. There is a group of Amish from Pennsylvania that have been down there for several weeks that I've highlighted. You know, it's just been wondrous. So if you wonder about societal fabric and do we still have it? Yes. You can see it so much in western North Carolina. You can also see it in Wheeling, West Virginia where two weeks ago nine people died in a flash flood, including a three year old little girl. And the first people to show up are volunteer firemen and neighbors. And so our connective tissue is there, but oftentimes our government is not. I've talked several times with Russell Voigt, who's the OMB and he's in charge of fema and they've made, they've been on top of it down there. The problem is, is that the first two or three months under the last administration, it was just benign neglect.

[Mike Rowe]

Do you blame the administration or the media or both?

[Selena Zito]

Both. I would say both. I mean, who reports? It's Appalachia, right? It's the one part of the country it's still okay to make fun of people that live there. It's still okay to call them hillbillies, right? Or hill people. It's Appalachia. It's. Why am I going to cover this? I'm going to go to LA and cover something that'll be bigger. It's like when Sandy happened and it happened in New York. So everyone went to New York. But you don't cover western North Carolina. I mean, I do, but the big legacy media doesn't.

[Mike Rowe]

It's so interesting. I mean, I've said so many times, I know that you and I are kindred spirits. I'm not a journalist, but I do remember like really wrestling with, there was a lot of pressure for me to take dirty jobs to New Orleans a month or so after Katrina. And I very nearly did well because I wanted to. And then if I'm really being honest in kind of a shitty way, I would look good down there with my crew. You know, I'm not proud of that. But I remember one evening watching the coverage, I called my boss at Discovery and said, look, I don't think the country needs to see another B list celebrity striking a heroic pose or some journalist Perched on a pile of rubble, bringing you the absolute latest. I think maybe what they're going to need is some attention a year from now, or maybe two years. Chuck, you went down there. You did some volunteer down there. How long after did you go? It was a couple of years after. It was like four years after. And I went for five years in a row and helped in Waveland, Mississippi. That's where they say the levees broke in New Orleans. But Waveland. The storm hit Waveland. Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

Yes.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. So the question, Selena, is like, as a journalist, and now you're about to become a very famous person. I know you're gonna hate this. You don't want to hear they're making a movie about you. Right. You can't just be a journalist, no matter how much you want to be. You're going to be, God help me, an influencer. You already are. But, I mean, you're going to. People are going to look to you as a connector, as an arbiter of common sense. Some are going to call you the Trump whisperer. You're going to be seen as a person who was right when everybody else was wrong and who stuck by your guns and so forth and so on. And you're going to have to learn to deal with all of that praise and all the cheap shots that come with it.

[Selena Zito]

Lots of Jesus.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

So much Jesus.

[Mike Rowe]

But you're going to constantly have to make these calls about what to cover and what not to cover. And I think maybe the place to land this plane, or at least start to, is to. Is to just talk about that for a minute, partly because I wrestle with it all the time. I've got 2,500 kids who have great stories. Which one should I write about? I can't write about them all. You know, you've got a thousand towns you can go to and a million stories you can tell. And, you know, you're going to have to become very circumspect, I think, very discriminating with your time and with your talent.

[Selena Zito]

I. So the last two stories that I wrote are probably where. Where my heart is and where the things I'll always be covering. I went to Wheeling, where the flood killed people. This is an historic moment. Nine people, right? That's unbelievable. Four inches. Almost five inches of rain fell in 20 minutes. Right. And this is West Virginia. So the topography is. And you guys grew up in Maryland. You know what it's like. Deep gullies, as I say, cricks and mountains. And these people's lives are Torn apart. These communities are never the same. But it's also a story of richness. You see Fairmont State University opening up their doors and putting family. An entire apartment building collapsed. You know, dozens of people were put out. Those are the stories I will always cover. The second story I just did in is the shocking hollowing out of volunteer firemen across. Across the country.

[Mike Rowe]

Yep.

[Selena Zito]

I mean, in Pennsylvania alone, when I graduated from high school, there were 370,000 volunteer firefighters. In Pennsylvania alone, there are now 39,000. That's 1/10. That is something that I think is really important. Important to show up the perfect. The first people that showed up. First firefighters that showed up when Governor Josh Shapiro's house was. Was firebombed by a madman was a volunteer fire company.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

You know, the first people that showed up in western North Carolina, volunteer firemen. And so we need to educate and call out to get young people and middle aged people to go out there and do that. You don't have to go in for a fire, but you could be there doing the staging. Right. We need to inspire people. And so those are the kind of stories I will always write. Those are the ones that are closest to my heart. I'm not someone that tends to run to, you know, the flashy story. You know, even with western North Carolina, I waited two weeks before I went down there because they knew all the celebrity journalists will be down there for the first two weeks and then they run away. Right. Because. But I continuously go down there and highlight and write about that.

[Mike Rowe]

If we weren't too damn busy, you and me, we ought to collaborate at some point.

[Selena Zito]

We do.

[Mike Rowe]

I can imagine a big thick book called for your consideration and just photos and profiles of the people that we've met and the little things they've done that aren't really so little at all. You're so right about the firemen. We've had a couple on this podcast specifically because the recruiting. And this is back to the trades too, right?

[Selena Zito]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

This is not about just welders and plumbers. There's this whole giant pressure on the labor pool. It's bad. You know, five out, two in. You. We've talked about it year after year. Five out, two in. Five out, two in. So, you know, the submarine makers are competing for the same people the volunteer fire department is desperate to have and so forth and so forth. So. Look, I wish I had a crystal ball, but if there's a solution to all of this, you are part of it, my friend.

[Selena Zito]

Well, so are you. And I Think the onus is to be good examples and shine a light on the people that make a difference and the people that we need to make a difference. I mean, at the end of my book, I thank my parents, my grandchildren, my children, but I also thank every person who let me come in their home and annoy them. Let me come to their church, let me go bowling with them, let me work with them. You know, those. And President Trump for putting up with me because I am annoying. I, I, I admit it.

[Mike Rowe]

What is it like? I'm sorry, this is small, but people are probably curious. You just going through your day, you're sitting there in your house, you know, you got all your, you got all your old recipes and stuff. You're just being yourself. And you get a text and it's the president. Did you ever imagine in your wildest fantasies that your penchant, your proclivity for taking the back road would somehow land you here?

[Selena Zito]

I have been a cafeteria worker. I have been a shampoo girl. I have cut people's hair. I went to community college. I have been a daycare worker. I have worked in a sewer treatment plant. These were all jobs that I took. I was not particularly good at any of them. But to think that I am very humbled by the fact that the president will talk to me. And I think it's mutual respect. And that common thread is a mutual respect because we both see that, we both appreciate and love the people I cover, which just happened to be the same people that have galvanized behind him for the most part. And I think that's where that, that thing happens.

[Mike Rowe]

What a trip you're having. Do me a favor, when you talk to him next, give him my regards. Tell him our paths are destined to cross. Tell him I've had great meetings with Linda McMahon, Governor Abbott, she's great. Yeah, I'm sitting down with Governor Abbott very soon. We've got some big things planned in Texas. Just had a great meeting yesterday with Governor Kemp in Georgia.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, great guy.

[Mike Rowe]

So I don't know that for me and for my little foundation, really, or even for this big macro problem we're talking about, I don't know that the ultimate solution is a.gov, but I think our government has to play a role in turning all of this around. And I made the same offer to President Obama. If I can be of use and still hang on to what's left of my sanity, I'm at their disposal.

[Selena Zito]

Well, President Trump is not a big government guy, but he is a guy that likes to inspire and inspiring young people to get into the trades is part of what he wants to accomplish. Let's just think about this and I'll leave you on this because you have taken way too much of your time. But we've only gone through, what, 120. 130 days of this presidency. Technically, it's a lame duck, right? Like, usually they're, like, chilling out. Like, I won the second one, guys, let's go. Not this guy. No way. Not this guy. Part of that has to do with being spared. And he believes that he has a purpose, a greater purpose, and he wants to get it done. And he says it in the book. He wants to save this country. Whether you agree with him or not. Having that near death experience, I think all of us can wrap our head around Butler.

[Mike Rowe]

It's out today, but it's about a lot more than. It's a township, right? Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

That is a township. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

It's so hard to keep it straight. Pennsylvania is so odd with its. And really.

[Selena Zito]

Oh, we're odd.

[Mike Rowe]

You really are, man. But I mean, a township, a village.

[Selena Zito]

We have no town. We only have one town in the entire state. You're either a borough or municipality or a township or a village or an unincorporated place. Unincorporated place. That means it's like, we don't think you exist.

[Mike Rowe]

We're not incorporated.

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. Yeah. We don't like you.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, look, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced you're right and so is the post. Pennsylvania is about to become a kind of not just a litmus test, but a reflection of a great many things. I wish I was smart enough to come up with a better metaphor, but the melting pot that we are, and that horrible casserole you described with peas, meatloaf, gelatin, all of this smashed together. It's such a messy, delicious, fun, wonderful thing. And you're bearing witness to all of it. Pick up the book. You'll love it. Check out her columns over at. Are you still selenazito.com Selena Zito?

[Selena Zito]

Yeah. Just me.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Selena Zito]

Yep.

[Mike Rowe]

If you have a hard time finding her, I don't know what to tell you because she's about to be everywhere. She's like stepping in gum. My friend Marina, with my mop hair. Your mop hair? My God. So great to see you. Thank you for doing this.

[Selena Zito]

So awesome to see you. Thank you so much.

[Mike Rowe]

You're welcome. If you leave some stars, could you make it five? And before you go, could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars, could you make it five and before you go could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars could you make it five and before you go before you go could you please subscribe? Marketing is hard but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.