Episode 443: Rick Perry—The Fight of a Lifetime

Release Date: July 15, 2025
Podcast: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe
Host: Mike Rowe
Guest: Rick Perry, former Governor of Texas and Secretary of Energy

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe, host Mike Rowe sits down with former Texas Governor and current Secretary of Energy, Rick Perry. The conversation navigates through Perry's ambitious initiatives in energy and artificial intelligence (AI), his passionate advocacy for veterans battling PTSD and addiction, and the broader implications of these efforts on America's future.

Rick Perry's Vision on AI and Energy

Rick Perry begins by drawing parallels between the current AI race and the historical Manhattan Project. He emphasizes the urgency and significance of building robust energy infrastructures to support AI advancements.

“Like many today, Rick Perry believes we're in the fight of a lifetime. We have to win the AI race. Electricity really is AI as processed through these data centers that need to get built.”
[00:56] Mike Rowe

Perry introduces Fermi America, a Texas-based company he co-founded, aiming to construct the largest energy and data complex powered by nuclear, natural gas, and solar energy. This initiative is positioned as pivotal in maintaining America's competitive edge against global rivals, particularly China.

“Rick Perry is damn sure that Fermi America is a Texas company co-founded by him. They're going to be building the largest energy and data complex of its kind, powered by nuclear, natural gas, and solar.”
[01:50] Chuck Klausmeier

Supporting Skilled Trades

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the critical shortage of skilled tradespeople essential for constructing these massive data centers. Perry highlights the necessity of plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, and welders in driving forward the AI and energy sectors.

“We have to focus on teaching these young people these skills that are very sellable to make a big difference in their lives, but more importantly, make a big difference in this country.”
[40:01] Rick Perry

Perry commends Mike Rowe's longstanding advocacy for the trades, attributing the potential success of Fermi America's projects to a well-trained workforce nurtured through trade education.

Advocacy for Veterans: Ibogaine Treatment

Transitioning to a more personal topic, Perry passionately discusses his commitment to addressing PTSD and addiction among veterans through the use of ibogaine, a psychoactive compound derived from the iboga shrub of Gabon, Africa. He outlines the legislative breakthrough in Texas, where the state committed $50 million to study ibogaine's efficacy in treating various addictions and PTSD.

“This legislation, which by the grace of God and the people of the state of Texas... passed the Texas legislature with only two dissenting votes.”
[89:32] Rick Perry

Perry shares poignant anecdotes about his personal interactions with veterans like Marcus Luttrell, the renowned Navy SEAL and author of Lone Survivor. He recounts supporting Luttrell during his struggles with addiction and how this experience fueled his advocacy for ibogaine.

“There's something that happens. Some of them handle it better than others. We have sent this entire generation of kids into war for nearly 20 years in some cases, and our government handed them a stack of opioids and said, here you go, take these until we figure out how to help you.”
[68:33] Rick Perry

Government Legislation and Support

Perry elaborates on the bipartisan support and legislative efforts in Texas that enabled the allocation of $50 million towards ibogaine research and treatment programs for veterans. He underscores the potential of ibogaine to revolutionize addiction treatment, citing studies from Stanford that demonstrate significant improvements in brain health among treated individuals.

“The focus is on veterans, but this is a lot bigger because ibogaine is extraordinarily effective against addictions—alcohol, cocaine, heroin, fentanyl opioids. One treatment, one oral treatment with ibogaine in 80-plus percent of the cases, and the addiction is gone.”
[89:32] Rick Perry

Public Perception and Political Challenges

A recurring theme in the conversation is the challenge of overcoming public misconceptions surrounding nuclear energy and psychoactive compounds like ibogaine. Perry argues that historical events have unjustly tarnished the reputation of nuclear power, equating it to the initial public fear of nuclear weapons.

“Nuclear is bad. Your children will all be born naked if we have nuclear power. It’s like these crazy statements that people say, oh my God, that’d be bad.”
[62:10] Rick Perry

Similarly, he addresses the stigmatization of ibogaine due to its classification as a Schedule I substance, limiting its accessibility and research despite its proven benefits.

“Drugs and medicine and plant-based and recreational... there's an incredible confusion that seems to hover like the cloud of dirt.”
[57:58] Mike Rowe

Perry emphasizes the importance of open-mindedness and scientific inquiry in embracing innovative solutions to contemporary challenges.

Personal Stories and Experiences

Throughout the episode, Perry shares personal anecdotes that humanize his advocacy. From hosting Marcus Luttrell in the Governor's residence to witnessing the transformative impact of ibogaine on veterans' lives, these stories illustrate the tangible benefits of his initiatives.

“This may be the most profound advancement in medicine in my lifetime. And let's look at it. That is some talk.”
[99:46] Rick Perry

He also reflects on his enduring marriage, drawing parallels between personal perseverance and his professional battles to effect meaningful change.

Future Outlook and Optimism

Perry concludes with a message of unwavering optimism about Texas's role in leading both the AI revolution and pioneering addiction treatment through ibogaine. He envisions a future where Texas not only stands at the forefront of technological advancements but also serves as a beacon of hope for veterans and individuals battling addiction.

“I'm the most optimistic guy in the world. This country has faced so many challenges through the years... We got our issues. We're not perfect. But when it comes to the can-do spirit, when it comes to having the heart of freedom fighters... no place does it like America.”
[109:42] Mike Rowe

Conclusion

Episode 443 presents a multifaceted dialogue between Mike Rowe and Rick Perry, blending discussions on energy, AI, and veteran affairs with personal narratives and legislative insights. Perry's dual focus on propelling Texas into a leadership role in AI and addressing the opioid crisis among veterans through innovative treatments like ibogaine encapsulates the essence of "The Fight of a Lifetime." This episode underscores the importance of visionary leadership, skilled trades, and compassionate solutions in shaping a resilient and prosperous future for America.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rick Perry on AI and Energy Race:
  “We have to win the AI race. Electricity really is AI as processed through these data centers that need to get built.”
  [00:56]

• Chuck Klausmeier on Texas's Commitment:
  “$50 million, yes.”
  [02:24]

• Rick Perry on Ibogaine's Effectiveness:
  “One treatment, one oral treatment with ibogaine in 80-plus percent of the cases, and the addiction is gone.”
  [89:32]

• Rick Perry on Bipartisan Support:
  “This legislation... passed the Texas legislature with only two dissenting votes.”
  [89:32]

• Rick Perry on Public Misconceptions:
  “Nuclear is bad. Your children will all be born naked if we have nuclear power.”
  [62:10]

This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of Episode 443, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the key discussions and insights shared by Rick Perry and Mike Rowe. It highlights Perry's strategic initiatives, personal motivations, and the broader societal impacts of his work, providing valuable context for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.