The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

Episode 453: Enes Kanter Freedom — In the Name of Freedom

Date: October 7, 2025
Guest: Enes Kanter Freedom Host(s): Mike Rowe with producer Chuck

Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Mike Rowe speaks in-person with former NBA player and civil rights activist Enes Kanter Freedom. The conversation explores Freedom’s journey from a Turkish childhood marked by anti-Western indoctrination, to his rise in the NBA, and finally his remarkable transformation into an outspoken advocate for human rights—even at the expense of his career, family ties, and personal safety. The episode is a testament to the cost of true courage, the transformative power of empathy, and the role of sports figures in the fight for freedom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Enes Kanter Freedom's Background & Early Indoctrination in Turkey

[09:29]

• Enes recounts his upbringing in Van, Eastern Turkey, where anti-American and anti-Semitic sentiments were normalized.
• Describes the pressure to partake in acts like burning flags and the requirement in schools to step on American and Israeli flags.
• Shares a profound moment when his mother advised:
  "Don't hate anyone before you meet them." — Enes Kanter Freedom [10:07]
• Moving to Istanbul, the environment improved somewhat, but systemic indoctrination persisted.

2. Coming to America: Confronting Prejudices & The Promise to His Mother

[12:45 – 18:41]

• At 17, Enes arrived in the US, initially wary of Americans and Christians due to years of propaganda.
• His worldview changed when Christian teammates respectfully took him for halal food and to a mosque.
• A pivotal moment occurred when invited to a Jewish friend's Shabbat dinner:
  • Initially panicked, recalling vile rumors absorbed in Turkey.
  • The kindness of the family shattered old prejudices, leading to an emotional realization and a personal mission: "That night I promised myself, whatever happens in life, I’m gonna do whatever I can to inspire millions of kids in the Middle East growing up without knowing the other side." — Enes Kanter Freedom [23:03]

3. NBA Career: Success in America, But Roots of Activism

[24:11]

• Played for several teams: Utah Jazz, Boston Celtics, Knicks, OKC, Portland.
• Struggled learning English ("Jersey Shore" was his first reference point), adjusted to various American cultures.
• Basketball became both an escape and a platform for finding his voice on global issues.

4. Public Stand Against Turkish Government & Personal Sacrifice

[27:40]

• Outspoken on Turkey’s 2013 corruption scandal, challenged President Erdoğan’s crackdown and human rights abuses.
• Faced severe backlash: family members lost jobs, his father jailed and psychologically traumatized, surname disowned.
• Turkish authorities revoked his passport, added him to Interpol, and ultimately put a bounty on his head after a papal audience in 2022.
• FBI advised him on safety, even installing panic buttons in his NBA accommodations.

5. Platform for Activism: From Turkey to China, On and Off the Court

[33:46 – 43:58]

• Encouraged by NBA’s initial support when activism focused on Turkey.
• Everything changed when he spoke out against Chinese human rights abuses—especially the Uyghur crisis.
• Started wearing custom “activist” shoes adorned with messages like "Free Tibet," "Free Uyghurs."
  "You turn your feet into a billboard." — Mike Rowe [37:56]
• Immediate repercussions: Chinese television banned all Celtics broadcasts within 24 minutes of his first protest shoe appearance, NBA pressured him to stop.

6. Repercussions and the High Price of Speaking Out

[43:52 – 46:41]

• Following outspoken activism, received warnings from NBA, NBPA.
• Teammates and agents made clear: his career was over.
• Traded to the Houston Rockets—"China’s team”—then released. Promptly, NBA games returned to Chinese TV.
• Financial magnitude: NBA's revenue from China (broadcasts, merchandise, owner investments) totals billions.

7. Broader Reflection on Hypocrisy in Sports & Athlete Activism

[54:54 – 59:25]

• Critiques NBA and star athletes (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry) for silence on slave labor and human rights abuses in China.
• Calls out selective activism: "Many say, 'We are more than athletes'; but then you pick and choose." — Enes Kanter Freedom [56:44]
• Emphasizes the exponential impact if top athletes take collective action.

8. Personal Safety, Isolation, and Loss

[71:48]

• Discusses living under constant threat and FBI protection.
• Reflects on profound losses: family ties severed, unable to return home, uncertain if he'll see his family again.
• Finds solace and familial connection in the hospitality of Americans; regards America as his new family.

9. Sport as a Bridge

[64:10 – 66:02]

• Recounts coaching Jewish and Palestinian children in Jerusalem — basketball as a medium for empathy and reconciliation.
• Small gestures—a shared high five—are moments of hope.

10. Book and Legacy — “In the Name of Freedom”

[80:04]

• The book documents his journey, sacrifices, and hope to inspire a new generation to value freedom.
• Emphasizes that true freedom requires sacrifice, just as the US Founding Fathers did.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Courage and Principle:
  "There's a difference between a person who will do something brave that has nothing to lose, and a person who will do something brave that costs them everything." — Mike Rowe [02:45]
• On Indoctrination and Empathy:
  "My mom said, I’m not going to tell you what to do, but do not hate anyone before you meet them." — Enes Kanter Freedom [10:13]
• On the Power of a Platform:
  "If I call myself an activist, I'm just going to go out there with the voice of voiceless people." — Enes Kanter Freedom [35:19]
• On NBA and China:
  "It’s not tens of thousands, or millions. It’s many, many, many billions of dollars… and it comes down to a frickin pair of sneakers. You poked the panda bear in the eye." — Mike Rowe [46:25]
• On Empathy and Activism:
  "The one thing that our world is missing is empathy. While we are comfortably living here… on the other side of the world, people are losing their loved ones, losing their lives, losing their homes." — Enes Kanter Freedom [54:23]
• On the October 7th Attacks:
  "What happened October 7 was one of the most disgusting things… I focus on innocent people. Of course I support my Palestinian brothers and sisters, but there are thousands of innocent people being killed on the Israeli side as well… People go crazy: 'No, no, no, you have to pick a side.' … I try to focus on the kids and the innocent people." — Enes Kanter Freedom [62:06]
• On True Sacrifice and Muhammad Ali:
  "Once the money or the family or the career gets involved, many people say ‘enough’. I respect people who go beyond and actually make sacrifices for what they believe in." — Enes Kanter Freedom [66:55]
• On Legacy:
  "Without sacrifice, there is no freedom. And I hope I can pass this message or torch to a next generation." — Enes Kanter Freedom [79:44]

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [09:29]: Enes recounts Turkish childhood and first humane lesson from his mother.
• [18:09]: Invitation to Shabbat dinner with a Jewish friend—turning point.
• [27:40]: Public criticism of Erdoğan and family’s persecution begins.
• [33:46]: Crosses line with NBA by criticizing China/Tibet; shoe activism starts.
• [40:42]: Chinese ban on Celtics games and NBA reaction.
• [46:41]: Explains scale of NBA’s financial ties to China.
• [54:54]: Discusses hopes and challenges for athlete activism.
• [62:06]: Addresses October 7th, empathy for both Israeli and Palestinian victims.
• [66:14]: Discussion of sports as a bridge (Jewish and Palestinian basketball camp).
• [75:53]: Reflects on book’s meaning, loss, and finding family in America.
• [79:44]: On passing the torch and sustaining freedom.

Tone & Style

The conversation balances candor, gravity, and humor. Enes’s humility and sincerity come through even as he discusses harrowing personal sacrifices and immense societal issues. Mike and Chuck provide context, camaraderie, and hard questions, but most of all, respect for Enes’s conviction.

Summary

This episode stands out as a profound exploration of courage, conviction, and the cost of living according to one’s principles. Enes Kanter Freedom emerges as a modern-day dissident: willing to lose his career, family, and homeland to speak truth to power—whether that power is wielded by autocrats or multi-billion-dollar sports leagues. His story blends the personal, political, and cultural, urging listeners to reconsider both the power and responsibility that come with freedom, whether on a basketball court, at the dinner table, or in the choices we all make as citizens.