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- [00:00]
Jon Stewart
Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees.
- [00:26]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Extra Speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited.
- [00:28]
Jon Stewart
See mintmobile.com for details. Pluto TV is the place for movie fans like me and TV fans like me. They've got something for everyone and it's totally free. You can binge laugh out loud sitcoms like Frasier and rewatch cult classics like Higher Learning. Whether you're in the mood to solve a little crime before bedtime with NCIS or Tracker or curl up with a surefire hit like Forrest Gump.
- [00:51]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Run Forrest.
- [00:52]
Jon Stewart
Pluto TV has thousands of movies and shows all for free. Pluto TV stream now pay never. Hey, everybody. Welcome. I came out of my seat on that one. I got. I was so excited to be, to be speaking with you. Welcome to the weekly show pod. We are recording this on the Tuesday following the inauguration of the 47th President of the United States, also the 45th President of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump. Our guest today will be Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. I'm excited to talk to her because this is shit is changing by the millisecond. Things are. Executive orders are flying. Oligarchs are tweeting. This is, it's all happening. Everything that was done in this administrative previous administration has been repealed. The Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America. Canada is now officially classified as our hat. I don't know what's changing everything. We're not in the climate accord. We don't. America has announced itself as we don't give a fuck. The mountains have different names. I don't even know what I'm looking at on a map. I feel like it's one of those where, when you get one of those maps from like the 19, when England would just go in and just redraw like, okay, that country doesn't exist anymore. I'm just going to call that, I don't know, Lebanon. Why don't we do that? Here's Syria and draw a little line and I don't know, it's going to take weeks to just parse just what the rules are and any more about Gravity is still in effect, I believe. Or did he. Did he executive order that as well? I don't. I don't quite know. You're apparently now allowed to shit in the water. Like. I don't. I don't know. It's all. It's all a blur. Everything that we thought we knew about the infrastructure and what to call. America's back, baby. We're back. Not just as a country and a family of nations, but as the nation. We win, you lose, biatch. I don't know if that's whatever that translates to in Latin. That is the new motto of the United States of America. And I'm excited to talk to a person today that I think provides a modicum of hope, a level of fight and of ideology that I think boy needs to be injected into this moribund party more than ever. So I am just going to jump on in and introduce our guest for today's podcast. All right, so we are going to get to our guests. We're very excited. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. Welcome. You are the congresswoman for New York's 14th district. The fight in 14th.
- [04:07]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's right. Thanks for having me.
- [04:09]
Jon Stewart
700,000 strong, the Bronx and Queens. And I thank you so much for taking the time. How was your day yesterday? What did you do?
- [04:23]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I kept my ass at home.
- [04:28]
Jon Stewart
Inside.
- [04:29]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Inside.
- [04:30]
Jon Stewart
Did you watch the proceedings, or did you try and avoid everything?
- [04:35]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I watched. I watched his speech, and I watched them not be able to turn on the music for Carrie.
- [04:44]
Jon Stewart
Carrie Underwood. I felt so bad for her. She's just standing there, and they're like, we're going to be the. The administration of competence. We're going to be. We're going to make everything work again. Except the PA that.
- [04:55]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I was like, we are off to a great start here. But, you know, I watched his remarks and leading up to it, and then I was. And then I was out. I was like, all right, I've seen enough.
- [05:08]
Jon Stewart
And nothing surprising. Was it strange to you? You know, one thing that struck me was sort of this sense that the Bidens or the Democrats wanted to preserve this decorum. You know, it was such a. I have to say, it was such a surreal scene to see someone who had attempted what he had attempted at the Capitol be handed the reins of power, not just in a peaceful transfer, but one that seemed to want to honor the Tea Ceremony and to bring them back. And is there a difference between. Obviously. Is there a middle ground between storming the Capitol and. Would you like Oolong or throat coat. Like what, what are we doing?
- [05:59]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I totally agree with it. But this is like a thing in the Democratic Party. This is a thing particularly with the Democratic establishment. It is this, this, like, I actually think it speaks a lot to some of the class differences and the class striation in the Democratic Party because it's, you know, yesterday was also MLK day.
- [06:22]
Jon Stewart
Boy, did that get lost.
- [06:23]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. Yes, it did. And one of the things that I'm okay. Would talk about, he would talk about this tension between people who value order over valuing justice. And I think there is this really strong attachment to order and business as usual. And I think also a lot of Democrats see that as a contrast. Like they're like, See, we don't, we're not them. So we are going to ask you what, you know, kind of tea you want as opposed to calling it like it is, which I think sometimes is seen as a little more gauche.
- [07:10]
Jon Stewart
And that is in many ways kind of how you made your bones. And I think you're right, like even when you think about. And not to get in the weeds, but, you know, so you were on the Oversight Committee and I thought did really great work there. I mean, you know, good questioning, the kind of questioning that I think would get to the gist of an issue or would break it down in terms of what the dynamics were. And when you wanted to be the ranking member of the Oversight Committee, the Democrats decided to hand it to. And nothing against Representative Connolly, but he's, he's 74 years old. And it's almost as if they were saying Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is really great at this, but he's 74, so there's nothing we can do. He's, he's a 74 year old man. He's first in line.
- [07:57]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I mean there are like, there are rules and structures and orders in the Democratic Party. One that we know very well is seniority. And they, you know, it's like, it's a seniority rule type of system. And it is true. My run was, it was a challenging of an entire system. It wasn't just about me or about like any. Again, I think Jerry's great, but it wasn't just about two individuals, by the.
- [08:33]
Jon Stewart
Way, that was his campaign slogan. Yeah, I think Jerry's great.
- [08:38]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. You know, but, but it was about challenging a system and a system of, and a way of making decisions in the party. And the problem with that is that once you, when you challenge the way that Democrats, when you ask Democrats sometimes to challenge the way that they've been operating for decades. They. I mean, it's existential in some ways. Like, if we don't make decisions like this, how can, what. What could we possibly do? What would. What. What would result?
- [09:13]
Jon Stewart
That. That's amazing. And doesn't Trump's rise and the way that he's operating make farce of that? Yeah, I mean, in some ways, he, he clowns them that it, it doesn't look like a holding to protocol. It looks like submission. It, it doesn't in any way appear to be. They're maintaining the thing about the party that is ineffectual, that doesn't do anything, yet that's the thing they seem to cling to the most.
- [09:40]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. And not only that, but the other thing that makes it dangerous is that it makes us remarkably predictable. It makes the Democratic Party highly predictable in the decisions it's going to make, in the people that we're going to select, in the type of people we advance in the way that we make decisions. And when we are highly predictable to the opposition, they will be one, two, four steps ahead. They know what Democrats are going to do.
- [10:11]
Jon Stewart
You're talking on a more. On a procedural level, or do you mean also a kind of ideological level?
- [10:17]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I think both. I think they know what we're going to do politically. They know what our, you know, how we position ourselves, even within internal squabbles. You know, when there's a progressive or whatever you may want to say about it, they kind of can map us out. And because of that, they're able to operate around that. They'll say, oh, yeah, they're gonna do that, or they're not gonna do that. There was never any question about who or who wouldn't show up to the inauguration, for example, or how they would be received, I think. And they know that. And so they're able to, you know, to your point, Trump is able to run roughshod through these things because he knows he has a lot of the party's number in terms of how they're going to operate. And I think that sometimes making certain calculated but unpredictable choices is a way that we can put ourselves, gives ourselves the upper hand.
- [11:21]
Jon Stewart
And it also, I think in some ways, in some ways, it reveals some of the Democrats posturing as performative. You know, when you're creating apocalyptic messaging about a fascist, literally, who is literally coming over and doing these things, and then when he wins, sitting down with watercress sandwiches and cream cheese and doing the whole nine yards, it makes you wonder, well, did you believe any of the shit you were saying before?
- [11:55]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Exactly.
- [11:55]
Jon Stewart
Or was that something, again, that was just a part of your messaging?
- [12:00]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, no, it's really true. And I think something that what makes this go around with Trump so much more dangerous than the first time around is exactly what you're saying. It's that he is much more normalized this time around than he was the first time. The first time people were really on edge. They were on guard. They were very vigilant about any break that he would have with these norms. This time the norms are becoming him. Like, the norms are embracing him. Even these, like, little things that people may not, like everyday working people may not care about, but they are strong cultural signals, Oscar. Like dressing all of the women. Like there's all these cultural symbols. Right.
- [12:52]
Jon Stewart
Participating now in this when they wouldn't have participated in the past.
- [12:56]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Exactly, exactly.
- [12:57]
Jon Stewart
I see what you're saying.
- [12:58]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Okay, so like, all of these people that were scared before about like being associated with him from, from the, the most common basic level to the most elite level, they're all like, they're all, all in now because this is now a billionaire feeding frenzy. It is a kiss ass race. It is, man. It is. How can I show how much fealty I have to Donald Trump in order to get my digs? And I think what's really important for people to understand and like now and every day of this administration is that you're being ripped off. You're being ripped off, dude. Like, everyone is being ripped off. And he goes up there and he says what he wants to say, but he's like, he's just the quintessential New York con man.
- [14:01]
Jon Stewart
I mean, for God's sakes, they launched meme coins the day, like I can remember the first, the first administration, you know, somebody would intimate something and the Democrats are streaming. He violated the Hatch Act. Like, everybody would go crazy. And then everybody have to look up the Hatch act. And now these guys are literally just launching Meme coins before the inauguration and piling up billions of dollars in wealth.
- [14:26]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes.
- [14:27]
Jon Stewart
It's kind of a incredible transformation. But again, it feels like. Let me ask you this because maybe this is a different way of looking at it, because in some ways it reveals maybe to the cynical mind the way that you believe this shit always has worked.
- [14:44]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes.
- [14:45]
Jon Stewart
In, in the past, that the idea of. And I'll give you an example, the gentleman, Martin, who is running for Democratic National Committee chair. Right. So he says, he comes out and he says, hey, man, we're not Gonna, you know, we're gonna take money from the good billionaires, not the bad billionaires. And if money corrupts. And this happened in a conversation I had with Congresswoman Pelosi as well. She said, money corrupts the process. I said, well, you raised $35 million, and, oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's it. We can't disarm. I said, well, how does money corrupt the Democrats? And she said, well, it doesn't. It corrupts them. Money's bad for them, but for us, it's good money. And isn't it almost better for us to now have this arrangement, be explicit.
- [15:32]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah.
- [15:33]
Jon Stewart
And be out in the open so that we understand this is how the world fucking works. This is how it goes round.
- [15:42]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. I mean, even. But the thing is, like, it will still be hidden even if you make it explicit. A. Like these meme coins. People do not really understand, nor should they, frankly, in a lot of ways. Crypto. But if, God forbid, your job requires you to understand this. One of the things about crypto, I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of crypto is just scamming poor people and money laundering for wealthy people.
- [16:15]
Jon Stewart
Right. But doesn't that reflect the reality of our system in the first place? It's just a more grotesque, hyperbolic version of a system that's not working.
- [16:28]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I think, actually, like, when you look at how, for example, Putin has operated in Russia and the way they've been able to kind of take things over in these oligarchies, these kleptocracies, they. They prey on that exact. On that exact logic, on that exact predicate, which is that everyone's corrupt and it's all corrupt. And so who gives a fuck? Sorry. Right.
- [16:57]
Jon Stewart
Yes. How dare you? At long last, have you no decency?
- [17:03]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And you might as well just get yours. And the problem with that is that we just entirely give up on a better world. Like, that's the crux of it. It's to get good people to just give up and say, this is just how the world works now. And I might as well just throw up my hands. And the fact of the matter is, like, I know this is hard. Maybe this is something like, I would say, or whatever, but, like, I think it actually is important to understand that there are good people and there, like. And we should be doing good things. And when we decide to make that the norm and when we decide to uphold it and value it and even regardless of party. Yeah. Like, don't vote for the people who are doing bad things. Whether they're a Democrat or a Republican. When we decide to hold people to a higher standard, then things actually do get better.
- [18:06]
Jon Stewart
All right, we're going to take a quick break and be right back.
- [18:14]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Oh, such a clutch off season pickup, Dave.
- [18:17]
Jon Stewart
I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those Blackout motorized shades. Blinds.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install. No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some for my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install hall of Fame son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world.
- [18:36]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Blindstock is the goat shop lines.com right now. And get up to 45% off select styles plus a professional measure. Rules and restrictions may apply.
- [18:44]
Jon Stewart
Paramount plus is your home for the UEFA Champions League.
- [18:47]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Magnificent.
- [18:50]
Jon Stewart
And this season is bigger, better, bolder than ever. That was special. With more epic matchups, momentous and historic, and more moments from soccer's iconic stars. What a a goal, what a player. The UEFA Champions League. Stream every match live exclusively on Paramount plus, the stuff of absolute dreams. We are back. But don't you have to know what you're. What you're up against? Don't you, you know, how do you fight an enemy that you haven't defined explicitly? And I'll give you even an example in a small thing, because I think this speaks to a larger, deeper issue that I think I want to get into with you, which is, you know, we all look at, oh, why did the Democrats fall flat? Why is it, oh, Joe Biden got out too late, or Kamala Harris didn't have a time, or she, you know, whatever that was. But I think at its base level, it was a feeling that government is not being responsive to the discomfort of its people. Right. Which breeds a certain feeling that there's this disconnect. And so we have to be able to define why. And I would put this into kind of a unifying theme of governance, which is for the Democrats, oftentimes they're so analog, they're so tied to Robert's Rules of Order, and they haven't realized, like, oh, it's fucking UFC out there now.
- [20:20]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yep.
- [20:21]
Jon Stewart
And we have to switch the way. But then you also have to define what that's going to mean for how you govern and what you're going to do.
- [20:31]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah.
- [20:32]
Jon Stewart
Would that make sense?
- [20:33]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I. I mean, I think so.
- [20:34]
Jon Stewart
I'm.
- [20:35]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Well, you're kind of preacher to the choir here.
- [20:39]
Jon Stewart
That's why I had you on, because.
- [20:41]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I believe that we need to be a party of brawlers for the working class.
- [20:47]
Jon Stewart
There you go.
- [20:47]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And we have turned into a party that caters. And this is reflected in the electoral results. We have become a party of people who cater to this. We like almost people who call themselves upper middle class, but they're actually like kind of wealthy. And so that's a very.
- [21:07]
Jon Stewart
You're talking. You're talking about me now, aren't you?
- [21:09]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
No, no, you're not middle class at all.
- [21:11]
Jon Stewart
No, I meant wealthy. That's what I meant.
- [21:15]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
But it's like this suburb, like kind of thing, and we've been chasing this affluent group and making all of these little concessions and hoping working people don't notice.
- [21:32]
Jon Stewart
How does that manifest? If you could give us an example of what those concessions might look like. So how, in a practical way, when you're chasing a different group? Because in my mind, look, one of the biggest issues in my mind is over the last 40 or 50 years, labor has been devalued and capital has been elevated. So investment and finance is king and labor is in many ways devalued. So in what way? Have you seen those kinds of moves made?
- [22:06]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I mean, I think the most kind of famous one that comes to mind is Kyrsten Sinema doing her little curtsy when she voted down the $15 minimum wage. But it wasn't just her. There were like. That was the most public expression of it. But there were a bunch of Democrats in the Senate behind her that also voted it down. And I mean, people are struggling so much right now. Fifteen bucks an hour is nothing. This was the demand ten years ago, to be honest, when you index it, it should be higher now, and it is nothing. And what people hear when. When there's all of these senators voting against it with all of these excuses of like, oh, well, how is it going to impact business? And first of all, these laws are very thoroughly. There's already dozens of compromises before you even get to the floor. It's not like it turns on the next day. Like there's periods, all this stuff.
- [23:10]
Jon Stewart
And how do those compromises occur? Are those placed in because of who has the ear of the congressional people, the Senate and the House? This is the effect of big money and lobbying.
- [23:24]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's really interesting. So you kind of mentioned this oversight race. So I didn't win the race. But one thing that did happen is that I've moved. I've been assigned to a very powerful committee, the Energy and Commerce Committee, and they're kind of known as one of four money committees in Congress.
- [23:48]
Jon Stewart
They can do the appropriating or they're just as a part of it. Cause it's not the appropriations, but it's.
- [23:52]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. So the four committees are Financial Services, that kind of governs Wall Street. You got Ways and Means, which is taxes. You have Appropriations, which is like government financing, all these programs. And then you have Energy and Commerce. So basically all of the regulation of energy, of health care, of tech, of all of it goes through this committee. And I've served in several other committees before. The day that the news came out that I got assigned to Energy and Commerce, my staff's email boxes blew up with lobbyists. Just tons of lobbyists just flooding our emails. And it is literally because of this.
- [24:40]
Jon Stewart
Assignment that I got like, hey man, what's up? Like what kind of was it like, hey, what's up, Congresswoman?
- [24:46]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's very.
- [24:47]
Jon Stewart
Checking in.
- [24:47]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's very like, hello fellow kids. Like, oh, I was at, I was at the Bernie rally, like back in the day, like I'd love to chat. And the thing is, is like I am afforded because I am supported by everyday people. Like the average donation to my campaign is like 17 bucks or something like that. I don't take a dime of lobbyist money because I am afforded that independence. Because everyday people support me. I don't have to. I'm under no pressure or obligation to take a single one of these meetings, not one. And I don't meet with lobbyists. It's just not really something that I do. And if my constituents or if everyday people are organizing and coming to my door, I'll open it. If I have policy, I will go and find the answers that I need for certain things. But I don't make these kinds of decisions. But these compromises that you mentioned, how they happen along the way, it is important for people to understand how Congress is structured. The every bill that gets proposed gets assigned to a committee. That committee has a chair, that chair is the head honcho.
- [26:02]
Jon Stewart
And especially in the House, it's all or nothing. I mean like when even if you have a one seat majority, you control all the business that goes through that committee.
- [26:10]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's right. And people don't really like know that. But if you have, you know, like for example, this majority right now, especially because Trump is appointing some people, there's only two more Republicans or so right now in the House than there are Democrats. But if you just have one more or two more, you gain control of all the House committees. You decide what legislation gets voted on you. You do all of it.
- [26:38]
Jon Stewart
Who gets investigated, who's allowed to call witnesses, what those witnesses are. I mean, you control the entire operation.
- [26:44]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. And like, the minority party just has to basically sit there for two years and maybe you can rename a post office if a Republican's going to throw you a bone. But, like, all right, you know, it tasty. It's pretty. Pretty limited. And. And so that's how those compromises happen, because you need to win that vote. Like, I think about back when Biden was trying to do build back better, and we had these, like, we had this massive prescription drug pricing provision in there that was going to make so many prescriptions more affordable for people. And there was like one Democrat, and that bill went through energy and commerce. There was like one Democrat, maybe two, very beholden to industry. It lost by one vote, or it lost by one or two votes in that committee. And so that's how, like, all of these things get slowly chipped away because of that process. And that's why one of the things that we say is like, yes, voting for Democratic majorities is important, but it's really about the kind of Democrat that you're sending. And one of the things I've learned a lot in the House is like, you know, there's so many frustrations, understandably, but also, you know, the popularity of Congress is super low, but a lot of people actually like their individual member of Congress. And that's part of the story that we have here, too, because a lot of people are just very, you know, where they're very beholden to a set of incentives that are not always just the people who voted for them.
- [28:24]
Jon Stewart
Right. And the people who voted for them rarely get the access. You know, I thought it was a stark moment at the inauguration yesterday. Amy Klobuchar was up and, you know, she gave that first speech and it began with this sort of ode to the working man. Oh, the working man. The construction workers who built this city, the railroad engineers who get, you know, and it was this large ode to the working man. Not one of them in the room.
- [28:52]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Literally not even allowed. You know, and there's. And you've got like, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos and TikTok CEO right behind you. Yeah. No, it's like, what are we. What are we doing here?
- [29:04]
Jon Stewart
But it makes it seem like a performance. This is why I think people lose that faith. And I think that ultimately this idea that, well, you know, people just need to have better unions and they do, like, why do. Why is it incumbent upon working people? You know, maybe this is a shift and maybe this is an interesting way to kind of talk about where did the Democrats go ideologically? Right. Because this fire hose of kind of oligarchs isn't going to be ending. And it seems like unionization, while a really powerful tool, is a slow moving one and certainly one that's been eroded. Is maybe the new economic theory a way to tap into that fire hose that money is built by labor, but labor does not participate like a shareholder.
- [30:01]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Mm.
- [30:01]
Jon Stewart
Is there a way, and this is obviously beyond my pay grade, but to start shifting the conversation beyond like, hey man, just give us a minimum wage raise and start. Think about the ways that, that these CEOs and these oligarchs are renumerated. Right? It's bonuses, it's stock buybacks, it's. So how do we get labor to not just live on the crumbs that they are afforded, but to participate in that fire hose, that, that $50 trillion growth in wealth over these last four years?
- [30:45]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I mean, there are tons of structural things that we can do and there are lots and lots of ways to get a bite at that apple. I think the crux, kind of the knot that we have to untie is how do we build the power to actually implement those things? When it comes to labor getting that share, that's not a hard problem to solve. There are everything from kind of Elizabeth Warren and a lot of other folks saying labor should have board seats in corporations to even more like, more lefty, even. I mean, it's all lefty, but even like other things.
- [31:30]
Jon Stewart
But why is it like, like even when it's called lefty, like in the rest of the world, it's normal. It's like center, right? Yeah, like, it's normal. It's the idea, you know, when we talk about, oh, how about everybody, like, can go to a doctor and you're like, what are you, a communist? And you're like, that's. The whole world does that. Well, that's. Except us.
- [31:49]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Our country is remarkably propagandized. Like, we are remarkably propagandized. And that's what I'm talking about when it talks about building the power, working. A lot of working class people voted for Donald Trump. Sure.
- [32:04]
Jon Stewart
I mean, he gained a tremendous amount in that area.
- [32:07]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
He gained a tremendous amount in that area. They voted for him despite the fact that, that he has a Supreme Court that guts labor rights, that they are overwhelmingly opposed to raising a minimum wage, that they are really, you Know that they're gutting the civil rights around working people and organizing, let alone women and voting rights and for black folks and immigrants. Like, put all of that aside just on a working class level. We have elected the foxes for the hen house to run the hen house. And so that is like a. Something that we're going to have to confront because what Zuckerberg and Bezos and all these people sitting behind them, they don't just represent billionaires, they represent all of the communication platforms that people use in the United States. So the TikTok CEO is saying we work for Trump. The Meta Instagram and Facebook CEO is saying we work for Trump. Of course you've got Elon with his fucking, like jumping around on a stage.
- [33:17]
Jon Stewart
Just gave away $1 million to individuals in Pennsylvania.
- [33:21]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. Which is like not legal, but Right.
- [33:25]
Jon Stewart
But isn't. Isn't that the point though? They would rather ask for forgiveness than permission. And isn't a lot of this based on, you know, when we say it's the foxes now guarding the hen house, but isn't it the people in the hen house going, where are my eggs? Yeah, you promised me eggs and you guys haven't delivered.
- [33:43]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes.
- [33:44]
Jon Stewart
We're going to take a quick break. Be right back. Prepare to be entertained. Gladiator 2 is now streaming on Paramount Plus.
- [33:56]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
You hear that crowd?
- [33:57]
Jon Stewart
It's ferociously entertaining. I'm just here for the games. And an absolute triumph.
- [34:03]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Take your father's strength. His name is Maximus.
- [34:07]
Jon Stewart
Paul Mescal. Pedro Pascal. With Connie Nielsen and Denzel Washington. Strength and honor. Strength and honor. Gladiator 2, directed by Ridley Scott. Now streaming on Paramount plus, rated R. With thousands of free movies and shows, there's something for everyone on Pluto tv. They've got all the crime shows like ncis, CSI Tracker and Blue Blue and great movies like Forest Gump and Face off. All for free. Pluto TV Stream now pay. Never. We are back Now. You did something really interesting, I thought, after the election. And, and this is I think why. I think the right gives you respect. And, and also I think is a little trepidatious about you in that you kind of understand these new media platforms and you went on one of them and it was either TikTok or Instagram or one after the election because you outperformed the Democrats in your district and there were people that voted for you and voted for Trump and you wanted to know why. And in doing that, you know what came back to you? Was it anything revelatory or illuminating about the process by which their frustration with people that are speaking the language of their struggle, but not delivering on their struggle led them to, well, you know what? Fuck it, let's just cut through all the red tape and go with a more executive version of all of this.
- [35:37]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a, there's a couple of things. One is that especially for people who voted for Trump and voted for me, they see two people that are fundamentally anti establishment, two people that do not respect a rule if the rule does not lead to an outcome, like a positive outcome. And I mean, it's one of the things that I really kind of sit with is I think a shift that we've seen is that people want to hear directly from a politician. And importantly, and this is also, you know, dicey territory, I think they will believe what the politician says from themselves. Right.
- [36:27]
Jon Stewart
If they hear it from you.
- [36:28]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
If they hear it from me. And the same thing, like, if they hear it from Trump, like, Trump went around. I don't think people understandably, like, if you don't like Trump, you probably didn't listen to him on the campaign trail, but this was a very different Trump that was on the campaign trail. And if, even if you roll back his election night speech and his victory speech, when he talks about immigration, for example, my district is like 60% immigrant families. And so when you hear him, he was very clear on the campaign trail saying, we're only going to go after the criminals and we're not going to go after people who came here the right way. And he is lying through his teeth, but that is what he is saying. And so people believe it. It's the same thing with the Project 2025 stuff. When he was like, that's not me. We're not going to do that. People will say, he said it's not him. He said he's only going to go after the quote, unquote, criminals, which, like, they believe everyone who came here who is undocumented is a criminal. Like, and not only that, but on paper, they, they say they want to deport 20 million people. There's only 14 million undocumented people in the United States.
- [37:48]
Jon Stewart
Right.
- [37:49]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
So they're going to have to proactively strip status from 6 million people who are here legally and in a legal fashion in order to meet that number. But you know, the thing is, and so, like, this is actually where I think the collapse of journalism, which, again, Bezos runs the Post. You've got, they have the newspapers too.
- [38:11]
Jon Stewart
The guy, the guy from the L A Times was like, hey, man, what do you guys. What do you guys want us to put in the paper?
- [38:17]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, L.A. times is a billionaire publication. Washington Post is a billionaire publication. New York Times is like taking. Ls left and right. Like, you have Elon doing a Nazi salute yesterday. And they're like, he.
- [38:29]
Jon Stewart
That was weird.
- [38:30]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
He did this curious. That was, you know, controversial. You know, flagellation. Like, what are you people doing? What. What utility do you have right now? And you know, it's all of this stuff that is, that is meshing together. But the, but the point is, is like, this is not all doom and gloom. I think that it highlights ways that we can fight back. And one of the things that we need to do is to talk to people directly. Also, guess what? There need to be Democrats who walk the walk and talk the talk. There is an insane amount of hypocrisy. And the hypocrisy is where. The hypocrisy is what gets exploited to use the cynicism. And wherever there's a hypocritical window. For example, I think one of the most biggest examples of this is insider trading in Congress.
- [39:22]
Jon Stewart
Like, dude, I. I don't know. I like, I don't know if I like, do I give snaps? Do I. I don't know what the kids do anymore. But like, dude, it's.
- [39:33]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes, it is.
- [39:34]
Jon Stewart
That's so crazy.
- [39:36]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's so.
- [39:37]
Jon Stewart
It's crazy.
- [39:39]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's crazy. I mean, like, that's the end. This is the thing. It's like, like people think that everyday people are stupid. Like, do we. Do. I'm, I'm like, do. Do you all really think that people don't see this shit?
- [39:52]
Jon Stewart
Like, they sit on a committee, a drug or a contract or a thing, they immediately make a call, the stockbroker changes things and their portfolio swells.
- [40:06]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Explodes it.
- [40:07]
Jon Stewart
What are we doing?
- [40:08]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And you're doing this on public trust. Right on. On like taxpayer finance, public facilities. Like, it.
- [40:18]
Jon Stewart
Of course you're regulating the market that you're trading on.
- [40:23]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Exactly.
- [40:24]
Jon Stewart
You run the casino and then we're.
- [40:26]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Supposed to act like money only corrupts Republicans. Give me a fucking break. So to me, this is important because.
- [40:35]
Jon Stewart
We'Re lucky we're not in the same room because I think we might have high fived. I really think we may have disturbingly high fived in that moment.
- [40:43]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And I think sometimes what my colleagues and other people in the party don't understand is that the insider trading that happens in Congress, it explodes the cynicism that fuels the right. It doesn't benefit us, it benefits Republicans because they make no bones about the fact that they are here about what class they are here to serve. In fact, Republicans are far more honest in this respect sometimes, which is that they're here to serve the billionaire class and they make decisions very publicly to serve that billionaire class.
- [41:24]
Jon Stewart
Oh, but they're performing a populist dance in a lot of ways. But doesn't it though, you know, and this is the thing where it kind of gets tricky because what the right's diagnosis is is in many ways correct. What Trump is saying is the system is rigged. Well, that's, I think that's what what we're saying, which is, yeah, it's rigged. Now, I don't believe his remedy is correct. I don't believe he's honest about where he's unrigging it. I think he's not draining the swamp, he's co opting it. He wants the deed to the swamp so that he can continue to funnel. I mean, that, you know, meme coin being just the tip of the iceberg there. But isn't that what is driving them? Is that sense that. And they are, I think, not wrong. The system is rigged.
- [42:12]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's completely rigged. And the frustrations at that are why working people want to elect people who seek to not, you know, go along, to get along.
- [42:27]
Jon Stewart
But the question is, they're viewing it like, oh, it's the undocumented migrants that are rigging this system and not the six billionaire oligarchs that are sitting in the front row at the inauguration. To me, that's the disconnect.
- [42:41]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's exactly right. And like, the thing is, is that when we talk about solidarity, the reason why solidarity is when we build that is such an antidote to kleptocracy and corruption, I think something that's really important for people to understand. And that's something that I also think the left can do a better job at, is also explaining why this solidarity is important not just on moral grounds, but this is our strategy for defeating the billionaire class. Because they are going to say your wages are low because of an immigrant, as though. And by the way, oh, you're going to drive down, wait until there's no immigrants to do your roofing, to do agricultural work in the United States and you're going to have some like UCLA alum that's doing. That's like doing your vegetables.
- [43:34]
Jon Stewart
There are people here in this country who will do work for money that Americans won't do work for who Who. Who are exploited by, you know, the system.
- [43:42]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
They are. They are exploited. They are absolutely exploited. And. But the thing is, is that when we allow ourselves to constantly be distracted by these culture wars around trans people, around, like, it's a. It's a new thing every day. But the. I think the answer doesn't. Isn't that we just let those people be attacked. It's that we say, what are you doing, man? Like, I think we need to make standing up for these folks just like such an afterthought that it's not even a debate. Like, we need to understand and see the bait for what it is. But we don't take the bait by letting those rights just erode and go by the wayside.
- [44:26]
Jon Stewart
But how do you battle certain, like, the common sense? I'll give you an example. Like, when they say, oh, there's an undocumented immigrant who has committed a crime, common sense would tell you, yeah, that person has lost their ability to be here and should be sent back. And yet you would find there are some Democrats who would disagree with that. Or, you know, isn't there another form of progressivism that is more muscular, that has a certain amount of common sense, law and order aspect to it, that can be fashioned as a way forward that doesn't get saddled with some of these seemingly nonsensical positions?
- [45:03]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. Well, let's take the Lake and Riley act, for example, which just passed in the Senate, which is. This kind of encapsulates a lot of what you just said, Lake and Riley act. On its face, Republicans brought this, and they say, well, if you are, by the way, Lake and Riley is a victim of a horrific crime. It's horrible, horrible murder by. By some. By, I believe, an asylum seeker or an undocumented person.
- [45:31]
Jon Stewart
Right. But apparently. Who had, like, a criminal record.
- [45:33]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yes. Who had a criminal record.
- [45:34]
Jon Stewart
Who had. Who had committed crimes.
- [45:37]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Now, first and foremost, her family explicitly asked that her name not be politicized or used or wielded in this way. And every time I see this, like, I. It's just. It's just so disgusting to me that they just trampled on this family's wishes and decided to do this. But anyways, so you have this act that's brought forth, and Republicans say, okay, well, you know, this person, if you have a criminal record, if you've sexually assaulted somebody, you should be deported. And so that's the guise of this bill. Right. And they said, so that should be the law. Except that's not what's in this law. Because A. That is existing U.S. law. It is existing U.S. law.
- [46:25]
Jon Stewart
Why isn't it done then?
- [46:27]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And well, I mean, I think there are individual cases where I'm not sure, but this is what the right does. They exploit these like very narrow individual cases. But the existing law in the United States is that if you are undocumented and you commit a crime, you are put on priority number one for deportation. That is standing U.S. law.
- [46:47]
Jon Stewart
Right. And it's not like we don't deport a lot of people. Even in Democratic administrations. We deport a ton.
- [46:54]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Now here's what Lake and Riley does actually, is that they use that guise to then dramatically erode constitutional rights in the United States tucked into that bill.
- [47:07]
Jon Stewart
So now no due process then for someone who is an asylum seeker.
- [47:11]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's right. Okay, so now in this bill, all you need to do is be accused of a crime and you don't have to be fully undocumented. It works against dreamers too. So you could be here, you could have lawful.
- [47:26]
Jon Stewart
You know, so they take a narrow common sense issue and then what they do is they expand the margins out on it to things that would not be.
- [47:35]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, this is, this is, this is Patriot act all over again.
- [47:39]
Jon Stewart
This is mission creep.
- [47:41]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Exactly. Using this guise of national security to erode not just the civil rights of this population, but your civil rights too. And like it makes us all. It's kind of like when they did these hundred mile border security zones. They're doing surveillance on everybody, on the vast majority of the United States because most people, believe it or not, live, live within 100 miles of some kind of border. The southern border, the northern border, or both. Either coast.
- [48:09]
Jon Stewart
Oh, I got Delaware breathing down my neck over here.
- [48:12]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I don't know.
- [48:13]
Jon Stewart
I don't know what they're sending up my way.
- [48:15]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And so like, this is the thing that, you know, this is the thing that we need to be aware of. But it's also something that you haven't heard this because Democrats are very scared on these kinds of issues. Democrats are vulnerable on issues of immigration. And so the response instead of being more full throated and telling people how they're being conned is to kind of just like be quiet about it and to go along with it.
- [48:42]
Jon Stewart
So let's take your energy, let's take the passion that you have for these issues and let's think about. Because right now the Democrats are almost fully defined by their positions on Trump as opposed to, you know, people are thirsty for a leadership and the Democrats, I think have had a really Difficult time responding to that thirst, responding to that action. So what is the process then of redefining what this party is, what it represents, moving forward and are there leaders there? It is sclerotic. I mean, it is a party in real confusion and I don't know, I can't put my finger on it. Reminds me the Republicans in 2012 where there was just when Trump came into that first 2016 primary, I mean, he just like, just like flicking his finger. Not Jeb Bush. Yeah, nice. Boom. Done. Like.
- [49:44]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah.
- [49:44]
Jon Stewart
And I think the Democrats are vulnerable to that. So how, what is the process of redefining and recapturing what this party is?
- [49:59]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Well, I think we need a real agenda. If you've noticed, the Democratic Party has not really had a platform with any sort of new.
- [50:09]
Jon Stewart
I have noticed, yeah.
- [50:11]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
There's no platform. I mean, there's technically a platform that gets voted out. This is the crux of it. If you ask what, if you ask a working class American or just any normal American, what is a Democrat, what do they stand for? They will not really be able to give you a clear answer. And so our party needs a clear and strong agenda. I think one of the problems is that the internal incentives within the Democratic Party are quite contrary to a clear, full throated agenda. And that's why I think you notice, like Biden on his way out, it was only on his way out that he was like, this country's controlled by oligarchs. By like, we could have used that energy a couple years ago.
- [51:00]
Jon Stewart
Well, I mean, what he did on the way out, I really thought it was incredibly disappointing. On the way out, he's like, we're controlled by oligarchs. Women are people. And I'm going to make sure that my family has a life raft. And I just thought, boy, what a. And I have fondness for him and he was certainly incredibly important to a bill that was very important to me that, that, that went through. But I just thought again, you just made this whole thing look like a show, like a performance and that you've been not clear with us over four years and on your way out you're just going to tell the truth, which is our legal system doesn't serve anybody and I'm just going to make sure my family's protected.
- [51:43]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah. And I think it's, it's one of these things where people, I do think that people want rule breakers in this moment.
- [51:52]
Jon Stewart
Purposeful rule. I think, I don't, I don't think we're looking for nihilists. I think we're looking for a purposeful recapturing of the thrust. Does it, does it start, Congresswoman, with what you did, which is kind of a customer service. I think what the Democrats have lost is the reality of people's lives. When you think about that cradle to grave journey and where the, the bottleneck pressures are, that weird working class, middle class squeeze of I've worked really hard, I've saved some money, but now I gotta blow most of it on my kids college while my parents need health care and other things and those costs are soaring and that's going to put me under by the time I get up to that age when I'm 60 years old. Isn't that journey the absolute priority of any government that's going to listen to the discomfort of the way its people live?
- [52:49]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Of course, of course. This is where I think when you talk about responsiveness, it's that a lot of people propose these things that kind of nibble around the edges but don't actually structurally address the problem. And so they'll say, okay, we're going to do a little bit of Medicare reform here. That doesn't fix the problem. That doesn't fix the fact that you aren't paid a living wage from the jump from the time you're 15 years old getting your first job at McDonald's or Baskin Robbins or wherever it is, like we don't have money, we need money. So that doesn't solve that problem. It doesn't solve the fact that the price of college is just skyrocketing year over year and it's increasingly becoming something that's only accessible for more and more elite people as time goes on. It doesn't fix the fact that then in order to that degree, yes, it still does give you a ticket to a more privileged class. I know there's a lot of discussion about is college worth and also the trades too. The trades are incredibly important as well. But these are still kind of tickets to a more. So people are getting left behind at every single stage of life. And what the Democratic response has been is, oh, let's expand Pell grants a little bit or and no, we need.
- [54:18]
Jon Stewart
Tuition or even, you know, the Obamacare, which is in many ways just a giant benefit to insurance companies. That's the government just saying, we'll give you a little bit of access to this shitty system that you haven't been satisfied with and we'll just make sure that to get an insurance company to take you on if you're considered a poor risk we'll just pay them at.
- [54:40]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
The end of the day like. And the stuff that's crazy to me, it's like the answers are stuff like we're just asking for things that our parents and our grandparents had like tuition free public colleges and universities. Not sure, not new for.
- [54:56]
Jon Stewart
My parents went to City College in New York. It was three. You know, this was the 1940s, you know, that's right.
- [55:02]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
We should be lowering the age of Medicare. I want the age of Medicare to be lowered to zero. But even you bring it to 50 and you will be able to make tons and tons of people far more secure in their lives which by the way helps their kids because you're working your ass off to get your parents health care because they're not 65 yet.
- [55:21]
Jon Stewart
Now to make that argument is Democrat is job one. Then to be honest about the deliverables that a government can offer or about how we need to almost, you know, when they talk about moonshots, we need a bureaucratic moonshot. Because in truth the way that the government operates right now is counterintuitive and counterfactual too.
- [55:43]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, exactly.
- [55:44]
Jon Stewart
All best practices. And there is such opportunity here. Congresswoman. I feel it in your voice. I feel the frustration that you feel being down there. I've experienced it myself. I have to tell you, like when we were down there trying to do legislation, I was at times just stunned at what you had talked about earlier, which is that we have to go through regular order. And it was interesting to me what I discovered to some respect is, and this is a terrible thing to probably say, but Congress can be bullied. Yeah, no, by righteousness and by doing the right thing. Like as long as they feel like you're not going to go away and you're going to keep that light on them. Mitch McConnell can be.
- [56:35]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's true.
- [56:36]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, it's very strange feeling to have that.
- [56:39]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
And also people are very responsive to incentives. I think sometimes people are, people are rightfully sometimes frustrated at like some of the creep towards, towards pro, you know, business and capital and, and this turn away from labor.
- [56:58]
Jon Stewart
And does this system require an entrenched underclass to work properly? The way I've always looked at it is, you know, government can be an effective check. Capitalism is the system we've chosen and it certainly is a wealth generation system, but it also has collateral damage along the way. It has a destructive things that are built into its function and maybe governments there not necessarily to change that system of wealth generation but to ameliorate the collateral Damage and allow more people into that fire hose of wealth generation?
- [57:38]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I think that's a very valid question. I think depending on your view of the world, it is government either exists to enforce that system and then try to kind of soften the consequences of it. And that is defined by the people that we send to represent us, that outcome. But I do think that people respond and elected officials respond to those incentives. As you mentioned, not only are they responsive to sunlight, money isn't the only rule here. At the end of the day, people who are in Congress want to return to Congress. And it's true. And then the reason, and the reason that the Republicans have so much enforcement is because they're more scared of a primary than they are of a general election. And for multiple reasons. One, their base is highly mobilized. Their base is highly engaged. And so if you can survive a primary, their theory of change is that you will be able, for the most part, be able to survive a general election, which is, I would say, true for maybe 90 to 95% of all seats in Congress. There are very, very few swing seats left in America. Republicans. And this whole system has been gerrymandered that the number of swing seats is so low. So for everybody else, your only election is a primary election, and that's been billionaires fuel and they fund primary challenges. Trump openly talks about that to keep everyone in line. But we all do have a choice. And the more choices we have that are more representative of the changes we want to see, the better off we all are. We're going to lose a bunch, but we're also going to win a bunch, too. And I will always, always, always believe that it was always worth trying. And in fact, it's so important that we don't give up, because people do not. And no, no, even if you don't see a way, because ways emerge, moments emerge. I was not supposed to get elected to Congress by any stretch of the imagination. I was insane. I was a waitress.
- [60:04]
Jon Stewart
Like, you rarely hear that from a professional leader. I was insane.
- [60:11]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
No, I mean, like, I.
- [60:12]
Jon Stewart
No, it's true.
- [60:13]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's not just a cute story. I was wiping down a bar and asking people to vote for me. I wasn't just like. It wasn't like a summer job I had once. I was not supposed to win. The guy I was running against spent $3 million against me. I was making. I was getting like $2 in my paycheck once a week because I was working off tips. And they take it all out, you know, like. But things happen. In America, this is still a place of possibility.
- [60:40]
Jon Stewart
But see, you know, the promise of the possible, and that's what gives you that. That feeling that. That the fight can pay off. But I think for the most part, that fight is, you have no other option. You know, we always talk about that idea. You know, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. But what they don't tell you is it doesn't bend by natural forces. Gravity is not what bends that. And there are people who are bending that fucker back the other way. And it is. It is effort, it is work. And I guess, and I thank you so much for spending the time with us today. And it's really been a wonderfully invigorating conversation for me to hear your passion and to hear the fight that you have and the direction you're. You're going in. I guess the final question is how do you feel about the confidence that the Democrats are being A, honest with themselves about where they actually are and B, have the vision and wherewithal to begin that process that, that you're talking about, about redefining it in a way that's more responsive to the people they purport to represent?
- [61:53]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, I mean, I have a weird relationship with the Democratic Party, to say the least.
- [62:00]
Jon Stewart
Friends would benefit. Yeah, I get it. I get it.
- [62:02]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Exactly.
- [62:02]
Jon Stewart
Yeah.
- [62:03]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's kind of like a. Like one foot in, one foot out. Right. And I think the foot out that I have is, is the foot that is very attuned to people. And the foot in that I have is it's still the coalition that helps people, in my view, and it's a coalition that we all have to be part of. So to me, I do think there's, as you mentioned, I do think that there is a little bit of this lost at sea moment happening. But as you said, I see that not as a reason for despair. I see it as a tremendous opportunity. And I've been a wrecking ball in the past. I am also. I think that's one of the tool. So I believe in the toolbox. Right. And sometimes you need a wrecking ball, sometimes you need a hammer, sometimes you need a wrench. And I think in this moment, it's a tremendous window of opportunity for efficacy, and whoever is most effective is where the momentum is going to go. And so I'm, for me, I'm just trying shit out. Like, I'm just trying shit out, and I'm just in the batting cage and I'm just waiting for a dinger and this is the work.
- [63:31]
Jon Stewart
I gotta tell you, there are so many metaphors. I don't even know what to do anymore. I've got a. I've got a toolkit and a batting cage, and I don't know what the hell's happening.
- [63:38]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's what it's gonna take just to throw in everything, all those.
- [63:42]
Jon Stewart
All those different things. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, New York's 14th district, thank you so much for. For spending the time with us today. I really appreciate it. Hope to see you again soon.
- [63:53]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Totally. Thank you, John. Appreciate it.
- [63:54]
Jon Stewart
All right, Bye. Bye. Fantastic. We are back. We're joined by Lauren Walker, Jillian Shapir, Brittany Mametovic. Fantastic. I say she's so good, I exclaim.
- [64:11]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I love her attitude at the end. It's like, get caught stealing, you know, get caught trying. Democrats, please.
- [64:16]
Jon Stewart
I really think this, this time, this. This time in Congress, she is going to get in a fistfight, and not with a Republican, with another. I think she's going to deck Steny Hoyer. I think he is going down. She's throwing a roundhouse, and it is over. I love the. No wallowing. There was no despair. There was no sense. All is lost. There was no sense that it's Sisyphus at the bottom of a mountain. She was all like, let's roll up the sleeves and get in there and make this shit right. And I think that is exactly the attitude that is missing and necessary. Yes. I loved it. She was like, agreed.
- [65:01]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
You never know what opportunities will present themselves. And she's an example of that. Exactly right. If you're tuning in for liberal tears, find another podcast.
- [65:12]
Jon Stewart
No liberal tears here, for God's sakes.
- [65:15]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
We got.
- [65:16]
Jon Stewart
We got a listener question about. They're asking, like, John, how do you think the media should effectively cover Trump this time? First of all, I don't think Trump is a different creature. Like, this idea somehow that the media must adopt. Oh, it's Trump, and that's different. Like, the media should have a prescribed methodology that can be applied to all who come there. And what that should be is to litigate the boundaries of our shared reality, to stop pretend we live in separate universes. No, we don't. We live in the universe. We live in the world. There is reality. The media's job is to litigate the boundaries of that shared reality through a process of standards of evidentiary truth. That's fucking it. And no more like, is that racist? Will you promise to honor the 2020. The 2020 result? Like, litigate the why litigate the boundaries of our shared reality, and that is how you should cover everything.
- [66:19]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Preach.
- [66:21]
Jon Stewart
Don't.
- [66:22]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Mic drop.
- [66:22]
Jon Stewart
And I. And I end it with this. Don't. But you guys are. Are doing good. I'm excited that. That we're back and we're. We're.
- [66:32]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Fuck, we're good.
- [66:33]
Jon Stewart
We're not good.
- [66:35]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
So he just asked. I think the Nazi salutes maybe made me wake up on the wrong side.
- [66:41]
Jon Stewart
Of the bed, bananas. And what I love about it is, there they go again, overreacting. And you have to admit, even if it's the awkwardness of neurodivergence or a thing that always occurred, you have to admit it is worthy of people going like, what the fuck was that? Yeah, especially coupled with ideological turns that you've very clearly taken on your platform. Like, this all does fit together. It's not like it comes out of nowhere. You know, you did, like, do this, like, and everybody's like, wow, that looked like he was doing, like, his own air trombone. Like, it was what it was. And I think it's very reasonable for any observer to be like, huh, that's fucking weird.
- [67:30]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
But even. Even the ADL was like, he's a little different. And like, what?
- [67:36]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, fuck those guys anyway. Like, they're. They're the worst. All these guys have supplement. I mean, the best one to me is Zuckerberg, you know, for Zuckerberg to show up there. And, you know, then he goes on Rogan, and he's like, the Biden administration yelled at me and tried to censor me. Like, Trump threatened to put you in jail. He threatened to put you in jail for doing much less than what Elon did to get Trump elected. You know, he had his democracy project, and it turned out more of the money went to Democratic states. And so he was enemy number one. He became, you know, Soros Jr. At that point, Elon just basically gave It. Gave a million dollars to anybody walking by in Pennsylvania. Everybody's like, oh, yeah, no, that's cool. That's. That's all fine. And Zuckerberg is pretending that he had a revelation. I had a revelation that the Biden administration wanted to censor. No, you were threatened with jail. And they even asked Trump, why do you think Zuckerberg, you know, came to you hat in hand? And Trump is like, well, I threatened to put him in jail. Like, let's call him balls and strikes. Fuck it all. That's all I'm saying. But I was very happy to talk to the congresswoman. I'm always Very happy to talk to you guys. How else can the people talk to us, Brittany?
- [68:54]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Twitter. We are weekly show pod.
- [68:56]
Jon Stewart
Instagram threads, TikTok and blue sky.
- [68:58]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
We are weekly show podcast and you.
- [69:01]
Jon Stewart
Can like and subscribe our YouTube channel. The weekly show with Jon Stewart. Yeah, do that.
- [69:06]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah.
- [69:07]
Jon Stewart
By the way, last week's episode with Jon Meacham. Now my mom thinks I'm smart.
- [69:11]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Oh, it's all been worth it then she loves.
- [69:15]
Jon Stewart
She loves Jon Meacham and doesn't particularly care for what I have to say. But the fact that he was on there and didn't call me a dumbass, I have now been elevated.
- [69:25]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
So that's amazing.
- [69:27]
Jon Stewart
Thank you so much. Very, very appreciate it. Lead producer Lauren Walker. Producer Brittany Mametovic. Video editor and engineer Rob Vitola. Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce. Research and associate producer Gillian Speer. And of course, our executive producers, Chris McShane, Katie Gray. Thank you all so much. And we will see you next week and continue this conversation about America. All right, talk to you then. Bye, guys. The Weekly show with Jon Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. Is produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions. The Showtime Original Series the Agency Lie to everyone. Risk your life on a daily basis. No glamour, no exploding. Watch. Starring Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Wright, Jody Turner Smith and Richard Gere. The CIA sends us out into the world to behave in dangerous ways. Whatever it takes, make it impressible. You deploy undercover for years. People come back. Damage from that. This is the Agency.
- [70:36]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Nothing is personal.
- [70:38]
Jon Stewart
The Agency New series now streaming on the Paramount plus with Showtime plan.
- [70:44]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I don't want to get promoted. I want to stay charmingly unsubordinate.
- [70:49]
Jon Stewart
I'm okay. Now streaming. Let's do this.
- [70:54]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Am I catching it?
- [70:56]
Jon Stewart
Now prepare for an adventure.
- [70:58]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I know these guys. They're super nice. Hey, what's up, my man?
- [71:02]
Jon Stewart
Five seasons in the making. Woo.
- [71:04]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Damn it. This is terrible. This keeps getting cooler by the second.
- [71:10]
Jon Stewart
Star Trek lower decks Final season Now streaming. Paramount podcasts.