← The Who What Wear Podcast
The Who What Wear Podcast
Celebrity Hairstylist Chris McMillan on Creating “The Rachel,” Going Viral Before Social Media, and Launching His Haircare Line
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- [00:02]
A
Thank you to ebay for sponsoring this episode. This is what you do. When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like an iconic Dior saddle bag or that diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that will never disappoint. Expertly authenticated and everything. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace or brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be besties with your other handb. Even an eternally classic watch like that Rolex oyster or that Cartier tank. You know the one. And when you find it, ebay has their expert's eyes to make sure you're getting the real deal. That way you can be confident that the designer finds you came for the luxury wardrobe that you've always wanted. It's all real. In fact, it's verified authentic. So bring your high standards and never limit what you can find. Yeah, ebay. The place for new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion. Ebay. Things people love. Welcome to the who what Wear? Podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors and tastemakers who are shaping the ever evolving world of fashion. I'm who what Wears? Co founder and chief content officer Hilary Kerr. And today on the show who what Wears? Senior beauty editor Jamie Schneider is chatting with legendary hairstylist Chris McMillan. Chris got his start as a licensed hairstylist when he was just 19 years old. His career took off in the 90s when he created the iconic haircut we all know as the Rachel for Jennifer Aniston's character in Friends. He quickly became known for his messy, chic style, creating effortless and natural looks for celebrities like Michelle Williams and Cindy Crawford. It was only a matter of time before his work was on the covers of Vogue, Elle, and Vanity Fair. Today, Chris runs his own luxury hair salon in Beverly Hills where he sees clients and teaches his craft to up and coming hairstylists. And now, after over 30 years behind the chair, he's finally launching his own signature hair care line with Sephora, including seven new products with the tagline no rules, just hair. We have all of the details and more. It's all coming up on who what Where?
- [02:54]
B
Chris, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:55]
C
Thanks for having me, Jamie.
- [02:57]
B
Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here to talk about your new brand. But I first want to go back to the very beginning. How did you first become interested in hair and when did you realize it could be a career path?
- [03:09]
C
Okay, so I think I've always been drawn to hair. I remember watching my mom do her Hair and bath time. I'd be sitting in the bathtub while my mom was, like, doing her hair and makeup to go out. This is probably, like, early 70s. And she would tease her hair, and then you would smooth it out. But I always liked it teased, and I would just say, leave it like that. It looks really good. Here I am, like, 4 years old, having an opinion on how my mom should wear her hair.
- [03:38]
B
Well, I read that your first client was actually your mom.
- [03:41]
C
I had the coolest mom who wore the coolest hair. It's all my mom's fault. When I was in junior high school, my mom had, like, a bleach blonde Farrah Fawcett hairstyle, and she would get her roots, and she was like, don't worry. You don't have to style my hair. My son will do it. And I would come home and do my mom's hair better than the hairdresser could do it.
- [04:02]
B
Amazing.
- [04:03]
C
And I did the perfect Farrah Fawcett curls. Rake my fingers through it, spray it when the hair's back, pull it forward from the front. It had that perfect feathered hair.
- [04:15]
B
Definitely still holds up today. I feel like the 70s hair moment is very much a thing kind of going back to growing up. And your interest in hair, how did you get that training? Were you, like, watching people doing hair? How did you get to where you are today?
- [04:30]
C
Well, first of all, it was offered in school as an elective in my 10th grade summer. My mom was like, you should go to beauty school. And I was like, they're gay. And my mom was like, yeah, you should go to beauty school. And I was like, oh, okay. So I guess we got that conversation out of the way. And I did. I just ended up spending my 10th grade summer going to beauty school, and then 11th grade, I would go to school four periods a day, and then after lunch, go to beauty school. By the time I was a senior in high school, I had completed 1600 hours of beauty school. I just needed to wait to turn 18, which was November 9th, my senior year. And literally November 10th, I went to the State Board of Cosmetology in Hollywood, and I took the test, and I passed.
- [05:19]
B
That's incredible. And you mentioned Farrah Fawcett being a really big influence for you. Were there any other cuts that you were always obsessed with and trying to recreate?
- [05:28]
C
I mean, I've always been drawn to pop culture and all that. Like, who didn't love Farrah Fawcett's hair? Charlie's Angels, all of them. I even was like, Jacqueline Smith's hair is a little underrated. Like, I always noticed she had really good hair, too. But then there was also, like, the I. Dorothy Hamill. She had that wedge cut. So I always remembered, like, little short haircuts like that. When I was in high school, I used to hang out with this girl. We used to go roller skating, and her name was Sharon Hawkins, and her mom was a hairdresser. And she wore her hair kind of like Farrah Fawcett, kind of like all the girls did in high school. And then over Christmas vacation, she came back to school, and she had a perm and had cut it into a bob. And she wasn't wearing bell bottoms. She was wearing skinny jeans. That's when I realized I was like, oh, my God, she's hot. She went from, like, 70s rocker girl and then came back from Christmas break as sort of like the new Pat Benatar or the new wave girl. And I was like, I'm obsessed. Am I obsessed with her or. I'm obsessed with the change. Like, I saw the power of hair, and so things like that, watching people get dramatic changes and dramatic haircuts, but having it be just as beautiful, and I've always been drawn towards that. I like trends. I like trendy hair. I think hair is an accessory, just like clothing is. Your hair is just as important as the shoes. Like, you could wear jeans and a T shirt, but if you have amazing shoes and amazing hair, you are good to go.
- [07:03]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's just a huge part of how you show up in the world. But speaking of pop culture, you've been respected responsible for some of the most iconic hairstyles in pop culture history. Of course, we have to talk about the Rachel. And I need to know, was there some kind of brief you received to give Jennifer Aniston that haircut? Or how did it come about that day?
- [07:24]
C
Okay, first of all, I was stoned out of my mind at Estilo Hair Salon. I used to take a bong hit in between each client. And no, there was no briefing. We were on the press tour around the world with the movie True Romance, and I was doing Patricia Arquette and Christian Slater's hair. And Patricia was like, I need my roots done, and did her roots blonde and then cut her hair. And, I mean, when you're in France. I gave her a French bob the next day. It ended up on, like, the COVID of Le Monde as, like, Patricia Arcret Guitar, French bob. She embraces French culture. And so I guess now they would call that a viral moment. And Molly Madden, who at the time and still is Patricia Arquette's manager at that time, it was like, 1994, 95. Molly was like, oh, my God, there's this guy. He's really good at cutting hair. I've got this girl. She's on a pilot, and it was Jennifer Aniston and friends. She had just finished the pilot, and they just needed her hair tweaked and cut. And she had bangs and some, like, curly hair, and it was a little bit longer. And I was obsessed with Amber Valletta's hair, and she was in the Gucci campaign for Tom Ford, and that inspired me to cut Jennifer's hair. I was like, we grew the bangs out. We cut it to, like, clavicle length. And then because her bangs weren't grown out, I took a little bobby pin and pinned the bangs and then let the back of it kind of hang over. And then I gave her a blowout because there was that really smooth, like, deep side part blowout on Amber, and it hit the shoulder, so it kind of flipped. And so that was my inspiration for the Rachel. And I was like, this was so easy. I don't know what the fuss is about. You know, I just went with the flow, and it was fun to do.
- [09:14]
B
What would you say are the keys to styling the Rachel, and how did you teach Jennifer to style it for her day to day?
- [09:21]
C
Well, first of all, Jennifer will be the first one to tell you she couldn't style it herself. She was just like, he suckered me into this haircut, and now I need him to do my hair. I think, like any good haircut, minimal effort goes a long way. And especially these days, I'm revisiting blowouts again, and I am having so much fun.
- [09:42]
B
What kind of blowouts are you doing? Are you doing, like, more of the 90s bouncy vibe?
- [09:46]
C
Oh, full on. Cindy Crawford meets Stephanie Seymour meets Claudia Schiffer. We are going full 90s blowout. Big round brush blowouts, throwing velcro rollers back in the hair, having fun. And also long layering hair, making sure that you see the layers, the flicky ends really accentuating all the cut and the hair and the highlights. It's really been really fun. I'm loving velcro rollers again.
- [10:18]
B
Well, in addition to creating the Rachel, you are also the stylist behind Leslie Bib's Cunty Little Bob in season three of the White Lotus, which, as you know, people went absolutely wild for. I think everyone wanted to chop their hair off when they saw that haircut. When one of your haircuts goes viral, what is it like to see that start trending across the public?
- [10:40]
C
Oh, God. It's like, oh, look, I got a thousand more followers on Instagram. You know, the cunty little bob has had quite a run. It's definitely like a fun trend for the summer. It's a little more blunt, a little more modern. I think people are, like, taking their bobs and tucking them behind their ears and they're flipping them from side to side. It kind of reminds me of Belinda Carlisle from the Go go's in the 80s. I don't take it all too serious. I just go with the flow of everything. It's been fun.
- [11:16]
B
Well, do you have any favorite haircuts that you've done that maybe haven't gone viral but you think totally should have?
- [11:22]
C
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I cut hair every day, all day long, from short to medium to long hair, from blunt to layered. I just think that it's just really important as hairdressers these days to really show diversity when it comes to hair. You know, what happens is you do a haircut and it got a lot of likes and you become pigeonholed as that hairdresser that does that cut. And I just think it's really important to stay diverse. Like, I love a micro bang. I love curtain bangs. I love Michelle Williams pixie cut, bleach blonde. I love the Bixie on Emma Stone. I love the wolf cut, the shag Micah wore, like Mick Jagger hair. I love all those references, and they're all in my head. Brigitte Bardot bangs. You know, Jane Birkin is such a great inspiration. Rosemary's Baby and the way Mia Farrow wore her hair when Vidal Sassoon cut it to Cher and her really long hair. And I think it's just really important for people to play with their hair.
- [12:37]
B
Well, taking all of those styles that you just said, whether it's a type of bang or a cut or even a color, are there any trends that you think are gonna be super popular in the next few months?
- [12:51]
C
I'm noticing a lot of people wanting layers. That's one thing I'm noticing. Whether it's like face framing layers as the bob starts growing out, people layering their hair, it's like cutting your hair into a Rachel esque kind of a haircut is a great option. You know, go from cutting bob to Rachel effortlessly and easily. But to be perfectly honest, I've never been one to like, pigeon yourself into. Like, what is the next big trend. I think the trend is playing with your hair. People expressing their individuality with their hair is going to be the trend and people owning whatever hairstyle it is that they wear.
- [13:37]
D
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- [16:41]
B
Well, speaking of styling, I would love to get into your own hair care line. When did you first toy with the idea of starting your own brand? Were there any specific conversations you had or inspirations where you were like, this is the next step for me.
- [16:57]
C
I've toyed in the world. I was contracted with Living Proof. So being with Living Proof, I went to labs in Boston and mit and I got to work with some amazing, amazing scientists and lab technicians on formulas and things like that. And then I worked with Tiffany Masterson hand in hand with the Drunk Elephant line. I also learned about ingredients with them because she's very specific about the ingredients that she allows in in Drunk Elephant. And I just finished my contract with Drunk Elephant. And my husband, Kenny, he's like, you have this amazing life. You have an amazing career. You make plenty of money doing what you do as a hairdresser in the salon, doing commercials, working freelance. Like, why don't you do your own thing? Basically you said, like, if you did your own brand, what would it look like? And so I started pulling, like, old reference pictures and old Avedon pictures, because Avedon always has, like, hair flying and old, like, graphics that I used to love from the 70s, like old VDOL Sassoon ads. We kind of like, started that from there, and then one step led to another. He had a roommate at the time whose family did aloe vera products in Texas. Her name was Kathy and was a place called Fruit of the Earth. And she goes, oh, My God, Chris McMillan is your boyfriend. I am obsessed with him. Let's do a hair care product together. Come to Texas. We will show you our plant. We will show you everything. So we took a little field trip to Texas, went to Fruit of the Earth and got a taste of like, they do everything from the manufacturing to the packaging to the storage to the delivery system. It was like four warehouses, a hot house that did aerosols. I learned so much in two days by going to these plants. Granted, we didn't end up working with her, but she definitely watered the seed. And we just started climbing these brick walls and getting over to the other side, I guess. Then I started talking to Tiffany Masterson about it from Drunk Elephant. And she was just like, it needs to be your DNA. It needs to be authentic to you. This is what I did because I started talking to other founders and other people and how they started growing their business. And then I remember I was just like, who do I think I am that I could have a brand of my own? My friend Vicky, her husband David, he goes, the day you picked up a pair of scissors, Chris, is the day you started your brand. And when he said that, I was like, that I can get behind. I love working in a hair salon. I love teaching other hairdressers. There's so much positive takeaway from doing hair. You really do get to, like, change people's lives and make people happy and make people feel good about themselves. So that's kind of like where it spawned, like, the brand.
- [20:02]
B
Okay, so I'd love to talk product specifics. You're launching with the classic styling kit, which lands@sephora.com on August 12th. I'd love if you could just walk me through each of the products and how they make your styling routine easier.
- [20:17]
C
I have a drawer at my station, and it's got like 50, maybe 60 products in it. And basically I grab like, seven of those products on a daily basis. And then every time I do someone's hair, they're like, oh, my God, I love my hair. How can I do this myself? So I just created my core products, products that I use and or that I mix together everyone's hair. I use a blow dry spray, which is sort of like a prep spray that I use. It cuts the blow dry in half. It takes the frizziness out of the hair. It adds a lot of shine, keeps the humidity out. It's kind of like Oleorelax by Kerastase. And then I also like Dream Coat. And it's kind of like if those two had a baby. But it's weightless. It's like water. It smells like Coppertone meets B Soleil Orange Gelat number four. All my scents are sort of an undertone. Like, I love the idea of layerable. You can use a lot of it you can't use too much of it. Like you can't make a mistake. And then the second day is like after I do a blowout, I put your head upside down and I'll put a little texture spray. I love the Living Proof dry shampoo, but I also love Orbes dry texture spray. And I kind of used to simultaneously spray those two. And I basically took those two and turned it into one product. And so it has the properties of a dry shampoo without the powdery residue. And then it also has the texture, which I love. Messy, chunky, texturey hair. And it takes the preciousness out of the hair is what I call it. So it's kind of like day old hair. Like you just slept on it. It kind of has that good chunky texture. And then what I do after I do that is I take the balm and then a serum again. Like I would take oleorelax again, do a drop of that with a little paste and I mix them together. And then I use that on the ends of the hair just to kind of take the preciousness out of the ends of the hair and define the layers and define the texture of the ends of the hair. And then of course, I use hairspray because what hairdresser isn't obsessed with hairspray?
- [22:33]
B
The balm is my favorite product, personally.
- [22:36]
C
Yeah, it's really nice. It's great for your hair. It's a before, during and after product. You can use it on wet hair. You can use it while you're blow drying your hair. You can use it as a prep. It's a great product. I use hairspray, I use balm and I use gel. Like all those are options for slick backs. But I do love the balm for a slick back because it's kind of nourishing your hair at the same time and it's not too greasy so you're not stuck with like a greasy head of hair. That was actually the first product that I developed was the balm. There's a lot of innovation in that recipe. And then my hairspray, I like Super Fine by Oribe. I love Elnet. Who doesn't love Elnet? I like a brushable, layerable, buildable hairspray. So it's got a lot of punch, but it comes out soft. I wanted to make sure that it didn't scare you because hairspray can be intimidating during blow dries. I like to use the hairspray at the root as like kind of a root lift. In the 90s, we used to simultaneously take hairspray and a blow dryer and like blow dry her hair to make it stand straight on ends. I also use it like if I'm curling hair with a curling iron or like putting velcro rollers in the hair, I'll take that section of hair, spray it, and then it's got heat protection. And then like, I'll use the flat iron and do a pass with the flat iron or I'll curl and it protects the hair from the heat. So it's kind of like a heat protecting hairspray. Finishing adds high shine. I do love shiny hair. That's one thing. There's not a matte product. Everything is shiny. Then we have the mousse. Don't forget the mousse. And then we have the gel, which I love those for like curly hair. Love using mousse. You got to remember, I come from a time when mousse was amazing. So Paul Mitchell sculpting foam was one of my favorite mousse. It's kind of like a leave in conditioner. It's lightweight. It doesn't weigh the hair down. You can see exactly where you're applying it. It doesn't dissolve in your hands. My mousse is super fluffy and foamy and creamy. And I just think it's kind of like the new world of foams. I think that foams are having a moment and then the gel. I always thought that gel had to dry really helmety and hard. And then when you brushed it out, it flaked until I went into the lab and made dusty, hard helmet heads a thing of the past. And now you can have super shiny gelled hair. These products are super interchangeable and super mixable. And then my last and favorite final fun product is I did like a mascara just to get rid of flyaways because I don't want to weigh down hair after I do this, like, va va voom blowout. But sometimes there's like a rogue hair or 10 on the top of your head. And so I came up with this mascara wand that's super strong, so it's not bending around. It actually targets with purpose. You can pinpoint the one hair and get it, smack it right into place. The wand has its own special formula, and it's kind of like hairspray and gel mixed together. And it's great also for slick backs and doing detail work on slick backs.
- [25:56]
B
Could you use it on your brows if you wanted to?
- [25:59]
C
Where do you think? I learned and perfected the formula on my eyebrows Amazing. That's where I figured it out. I did it around my hairline because all those sort of hair wands that I've used, they were really hard and crusty. So mine is not hard and mine is not crusty, and it breaks it down. Like, I don't need, like, a laminated brow. So, like, I did buy the GOT2B, which was so good and strong, but, you know, it's like my eyebrows were glued to my skin. You know, I think it's great for makeup artists. It's great for, like, professionals and all that kind of stuff. I get it. But I'm working with professionals meets the consumer, so I had to have both. So everything I had in mind was professional and consumer.
- [26:47]
B
Well, the line, obviously has been years in the making, but I'm curious, have you been secretly using any of the products on your celebrity clients, and what has their response been like, oh, my.
- [26:58]
C
God, the second I get a sample from the lab, it's being used immediately on everybody in the salon. So really, like being a salon hairdresser, it's been part of the authentic and organic way of knowing how these products perform, and people would covet the lab samples that they got. So, yes, of course I use my clientele whether they're famous or not. To me, everyone's famous and everyone's fabulous. So I've used them as my guinea pigs.
- [27:29]
B
Going back to styling, I do want to play a little game where I will give you a specific hair type or style, and you will tell me basically what you would do to them with your products if they came to you and said, do whatever you want. I'll start with a short, straight pixie cut.
- [27:47]
C
Whenever I do a pixie cut on a girl, I give it a softer edge. But I do like boy haircuts on girls because once you go short, you want it to be tomboyish. You don't want it too feminine. I think little boycotts on girls are so chic, so chic. And that's kind of. If you look at, like, Jean Seberg or Michelle Williams or Mia Farrow, they were kind of like little boy haircuts. For sure. I would use the balm. What I also like to do is I like to take the dry texture spray and spray it in my hands and piece it out and rub it through the hair, because it gives the hair a little bit of grit and a little bit of texture. So it's kind of a combination of the two.
- [28:31]
B
And just to create that, like, piecey texture you were talking about with the Balm?
- [28:34]
C
Yeah, it just defines those little layers. The balm kind of adds a little bit of like nourishment and moisture to the hair. And then the texture spray adds a little punk rock to it and takes the preciousness out of it.
- [28:48]
B
And then what about if someone had a mid length wavy hair?
- [28:52]
C
I would do like an apricot to maybe a plum size of mousse. I would rub it through all of my hair, evenly distribute it, rake it through all of your hair with your fingers and squeeze it, scrunch it, mold it into place. I would do that. And then I would also take a little bit of gel, just a touch on your fingers, and sort of like flatten out the top a little bit and pull it through a little bit of the ends and then let it dry in its natural state. And then afterwards, you can take like one squirt of balm and rub it through your hands and sort of break out because it's going to dry like a little crispy, but the lightest touch is going to break it out and it's going to have high shine and it's going to have like a ribbony texture and no frizz. And you can use the balm and like, you can build it and start pulling it out and start messing it up and start like yanking the hair and having fun with it.
- [29:56]
B
I love that. And what about if someone has a little bit more texture, a little bit more curl, some curly bangs maybe? Let's throw into the mix.
- [30:05]
C
So that's kind of like Micah or like Natasha Lyonne. If Natasha Lyonne showed up and sat in my chair, what would I do? I would towel dry her hair really good. And I would take the balm and put that in my hands and maybe a little bit of gel and I would evenly distribute it to all of her hair. Maybe have her put her head upside down and shake it out and then bring her hair back up and like start pulling it down into place. And then take a towel and squeeze the those curls into the hair to really define them and be intentional. Do not pet your hair. You want to go in with intention. You want to slightly manhandle your hair, especially with curls. Pull them, yank them, squeeze them.
- [30:55]
B
Okay. And then what about if someone has really lush, coily hair?
- [30:59]
C
So what you want to do is use a lot of the gel evenly throughout all your hair. You can use like a curl brush to really get it through so that it smooths it out so it doesn't go frizzy. And then maybe add a layer of mousse into that. Once that's pretty much dry, you can take a diffuser and dry it up with that. And then again, take the balm at the very end and smooth out the ends, smooth out the frizz, pull it through the hair. But that's a very good question. It is a combination of layering all three of them and finding your happy place with those. It's trial and error. Could be mousse first, then layer on the gel, then with the balm. Because coily hair, you really want to add weight to the hair, so you want to use your heavier products first and then layer on your lighter products towards the end.
- [31:54]
B
Thank you for that. And my final question. I know every founder who just launched loves to hear this, but what's next for you in the brand? Is there anything else you can share with us before I let you go?
- [32:06]
C
Oh, I mean, obviously when you're working with Sephora, they think of the future. We are two years out in this brand. The future of this, what we're launching on an end cap and a four shelf. I want to be the first gondola in Sephora because I want to have, like, chic ponytail holders, chic hair clips, headbands, and I'm always super inspired by, like, Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and the chicness of her, and I want to do that sort of Prada mew mew. You know, I think beanie caps. I'm excited to do a beanie cap because I use beanie caps to kind of like, set the hair and make it a little smaller. So, like, I always put a beanie cap on my clients after I blow dry their hair. Sometimes I do it with Jen. And you can keep the crown full, but the sides go flatter.
- [33:01]
B
How long do you keep it on her?
- [33:02]
C
Like, five minutes.
- [33:04]
B
Okay, that is a great tip.
- [33:05]
C
Yeah. Like, haven't you ever gotten a blowout and it felt a little big on the sides?
- [33:09]
B
Totally.
- [33:10]
C
So take a cashmere beanie cap and pull like, a stretched out one over your head. And you don't have to do it in the front. Do it like, behind your bangs and over that. You'll be like, oh, my gosh, what a duh moment. Tip and tricks.
- [33:26]
B
I love that. And you spray hairspray before?
- [33:29]
C
Sure.
- [33:30]
B
Okay.
- [33:31]
C
Always hairspray. Hairspray. Jamie, did I mention I love hairspray?
- [33:35]
B
You might have.
- [33:37]
C
All hairdressers love hairspray.
- [33:39]
B
Amazing. Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining me and congratulations again on the launch. It's gorgeous.
- [33:45]
C
Thank you. Jamie I appreciate it.
- [33:52]
A
A huge thank you to the legendary celebrity hairstylist Chris McMillan. Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, I'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us. If you have any guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a line@podcast whowhatwear.com or you can find us on social @whowhatwere. See you next Wednesday on the who what, Where? Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto, our editor is Ko Takasugi Chernovin. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.