Jewelry Designer Pamela Love on the Art of Adornment and Creating Her Own Tarot Deck

Summary

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Detailed Summary: The Who What Wear Podcast — Jewelry Designer Pamela Love on the Art of Adornment and Creating Her Own Tarot Deck (September 24, 2025)

Episode Overview

On this episode of The Who What Wear Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Cat Collings interviews renowned jewelry designer Pamela Love. The two discuss Pamela's creative journey, the inspirations behind her distinctive designs, the evolution of her brand, and her new tarot deck and guidebook, Infinite Door. The conversation seamlessly blends Pamela’s insights on the art of adornment, personal style, her collaboration with influential artists, industry trends, and the symbology and spirituality that fuel her work. The episode also features a live tarot card pull for the audience.

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Pamela Love’s Introduction to Jewelry (02:36–04:16)

• Pamela initially "really didn’t like jewelry," finding her mother’s classic diamond preferences formulaic and uninspiring.
• As a rebellious teen, Pamela began making her own jewelry from found objects, relishing the hands-on, subversive aspects.
• Over time, she "fell in love with the art of adornment," discovering the vast expressive possibilities within jewelry.

Notable Quote:

"As a tween and a teen, I fell in love with the idea of making jewelry and adorning myself in ways that were subversive or different." — Pamela Love (03:23)

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Thematic Motifs & Inspirations (04:16–05:23)

• Pamela’s jewelry is known for celestial, spiritual, and terrestrial motifs.
• Her early work centered around themes of death and mourning, inspired by the loss of her father; she sought to understand how different cultures celebrate and honor those who have passed, choosing jewelry as her medium.

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Mentorship & Tarot: Working with Francesco Clemente (05:23–08:12)

• Pamela worked as a painting assistant to Italian artist Francesco Clemente for years, crediting his creativity and openness to inspiration as pivotal influences.
• Clemente, an avid tarot reader, deepened her love for tarot, validating its use as serious artistic inspiration.
• She draws from a lineage of artists influenced by tarot, noting this throughline includes figures like Salvador Dalí and Leonora Carrington.

Notable Quote:

“Something that I learned from him was to really not quite question my inspiration... Seeing the way he works with his inspiration and wholeheartedly dives into everything and doesn't question it, I think was really fortifying for me.” — Pamela Love (06:16)

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Founding the Pamela Love Brand (08:12–10:31)

• Pamela’s journey from Barneys trunk show coordinator to jewelry entrepreneur began with a partnership that eventually dissolved, leading her to pursue jewelry alone.
• Early hands-on apprenticeship experiences with classic jewelry makers in New York shaped her skills, even as she gravitated toward unconventional, symbolic designs.

Memorable Anecdote:

“My mom was visiting, and we were in the jewelry district, and she actually just walked into the jewelry exchange up to some guys and was like, ‘Can my daughter assist you? Like, she'll do it for free.’ And I was like, oh, my God.” — Pamela Love (09:19)

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Signature Pieces: Five Spike Ear Jacket & Style Evolution (10:31–12:35)

• The five spike ear jacket emerged from a “jewelry happens” moment during production, becoming one of her iconic bestsellers.
• Pamela describes how the design was a happy accident and how it evolved into different luxury iterations.

Notable Quote:

“We used to say it in our offslaw, jewelry happens. It was like a jewelry happens moment.” — Pamela Love (11:14)

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Becoming an “It” Brand & The Reality of Success (12:35–14:11)

• The Pamela Love brand experienced rapid success and industry attention; Pamela admits she rarely “stepped back” to appreciate it due to the demands of running a business.
• She echoes the sentiment that "that kind of success is often wasted on the young," due to being absorbed in the work over celebration.

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Reflections on Industry Changes & Trends (14:12–16:01)

• Pamela identifies Phoebe Philo’s Celine era as a turning point that shifted jewelry and accessories toward minimalism.
• She notes the challenges of remaining authentic amid widespread trends and emphasizes the importance of creating from personal vision.

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Modern Jewelry: Current Collections & Market Shifts (16:01–17:56)

• The cost of gold is cited as a major contemporary challenge, with Pamela wishing prices would “go back to where it was so that we could all freely create.”
• The brand’s “piercing” earring line and bespoke engagement rings are now major business facets; a recent sterling silver collection also resonates with customers seeking alternatives to gold.

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Creative Inspiration: Art, Mythology, and Parenting (17:56–19:07)

• Pamela’s inspirations span art, film, music, mythology, magic, and symbolism.
• Her travel has lessened since becoming a parent, but she continues to draw from a well of cultural and personal sources, always aiming to push stylistic boundaries.

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Tarot in Pamela’s Life and Work (19:07–23:53)

• Pamela uses tarot as a tool for introspection and guidance, especially during challenging times.
• She learned tarot as a teenager (“I literally bought a book and a tarot deck and I read it. That was it.” — 20:19) and encourages intuitive learning over technical mastery.
• The classic Rider Waite deck’s accessible symbolism was instrumental in her understanding; Pamela stresses tarot cards are “teachers” rather than harbingers of doom.

Notable Quote:

“No card is here to be like, something horrible is going to happen to you and there's nothing you can do about it. They're here to provide you with insight onto how to deal with a horrible situation.” — Pamela Love (23:08)

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Creating the Infinite Door Tarot Deck (23:53–26:17)

• Infinite Door is a collaborative project with Chris Minietzki, former Pamela Love design director; their decade-long creative partnership shaped the deck’s surreal, psychedelic style.
• The seven-year process sought to honor classic tarot while subverting and personalizing its art.
• The deck’s guidebook includes personal anecdotes and encourages interpretive freedom.

Notable Quote:

“Again, it's almost like, similar to the jewelry. It's like taking this classic, traditional deck, the Rider Waite deck, and creating something that is subversive but still honoring that.” — Pamela Love (24:44)

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Live Tarot Reading: Audience Card Pull (26:17–27:58)

• Pamela performs a live single-card reading for listeners and draws “The Devil.”
• She interprets the card as relating to shadow work, indulgence, and the opportunity for healing and transformation rather than a negative omen.

Memorable Moment & Quote:

“The devil is a fantastic card because it's really talking about your shadow self... It's about looking at the dark side for the purpose of healing, for the purpose of clearing.” — Pamela Love (27:00)

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Brand Updates & What’s Next (28:04–29:01)

• Pamela teases a “very exciting collaboration” launching at year’s end and ongoing projects related to the tarot deck and new jewelry lines.
• The Infinite Door tarot deck is available at major retailers, Pamela’s website, and her Brooklyn store.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Moment | |-----------|--------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:23 | Pamela Love | “I fell in love with the idea of making jewelry and adorning myself in ways that were subversive or different.” | | 06:16 | Pamela Love | “Seeing the way he works with his inspiration and wholeheartedly dives into everything and doesn't question it, I think was really fortifying for me.” | | 09:19 | Pamela Love | “My mom...just walked into the jewelry exchange up to some guys and was like, ‘Can my daughter assist you?’”| | 11:14 | Pamela Love | “We used to say...jewelry happens. It was like a jewelry happens moment.”| | 23:08 | Pamela Love | “No card is here to be like, something horrible is going to happen to you and there's nothing you can do about it.” | | 24:44 | Pamela Love | “It's like taking this classic, traditional deck, the Rider Waite deck, and creating something that is subversive but still honoring that.”| | 27:00 | Pamela Love | “The devil is a fantastic card because it's really talking about your shadow self...It's about looking at the dark side for the purpose of healing, for the purpose of clearing.” |

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:36] Pamela’s early relationship to jewelry
• [05:23] Mentorship with Francesco Clemente; tarot influences
• [08:12] Launching the Pamela Love brand
• [10:31] The five spike ear jacket and iconic styles
• [12:35] Brand growth and the realities of success
• [14:22] Shifts in the jewelry and accessories industry
• [16:33] Bestselling collections and piercing line
• [19:33] Pamela's personal tarot practice explained
• [23:57] About the Infinite Door tarot deck
• [26:28] Live tarot card pull for the audience
• [28:07] Preview of upcoming collaborations and releases

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich portrait of Pamela Love as an artist and entrepreneur who merges symbolism, history, and the mystical with cutting-edge jewelry design. Through candid anecdotes and thoughtful reflection, Pamela shares the creative philosophies and life lessons that inform her collections and recent venture into tarot, encouraging listeners to embrace intuition, symbolism, and self-reflection—on and off the wrist.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Welcome to the who, what Where? Podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors and tastemakers who are shaping the ever evolving world of fashion. I'm who what Where? Editor in Chief Cat Collings, and today I'm speaking with jewelry designer Pamela Love. Pamela launched her namesake brand, Pamela Love jewelry in 2008 with a collection of celestial necklaces, earrings, rings, and charms. Inspired by her love for astrology. The brand quickly became a big deal with those who were hungry for unique jewelry pieces to add to their wardrobes. Everything Pamela has built over the past almost two decades has led her to this moment where she's able to bring together her love for tarot and her love for design with her very own tarot deck and guidebook called Infinite Door, which she debuted earlier this month. We're talking jewelry trends, design inspiration, and Pamela even does a quick tarot card pull for all of you listening. It's all coming up on who, what Where.

I'm so excited to be connected today. I'm a huge fan of your brand and I can't wait to talk about your new project. But first, let's start from the beginning and give a little context.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Sure.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Tell us a bit about how you fell in love with jewelry.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Well, in the beginning, I really didn't like jewelry at all. My mother was a big jewelry person, but it was, you know, diamond tennis bracelets, classic, but also just like diamonds, the bigger they look, the better, you know, whether it was real or faux, it was all very like a classic prong set. And I just kind of Felt it was a little bit boring and formulaic. So I was like, I'm not into jewelry. I'm not a jewelry person. But as I got a little older, maybe 14 or 15, I started exploring making jewelry out of anything I could find. So I was making jewelry out of found objects and kind of finding clever ways to adorn myself. Maybe as an act of rebellion against what I thought was the cookie cutter idea of what jewelry is. Fast forward. I love diamonds and I love working with fine materials. But as a tween and a teen, I fell in love with the idea of making jewelry and adorning myself in ways that were subversive or different and very hands on to the point where, when coming out of college, I was like a totally jewelry obsessed person. And once I started to explore and realize, like, the vast ways that jewelry can be interpreted and how varied it is, I really started to fall in love with the art of adornment.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

That's so interesting because I think of your jewelry and your aesthetic. It's the opposite of a tennis bracelet.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Ironically enough, I wear a tennis bracelet. It was my mom's and she gave it to me, but I almost wear that because it's funny for me to be wearing a tennis bracelet and it's missing a diamond and I just left it like that. And I have some charm hanging from it now.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, yeah. It has to be something a little subversive or off. I feel like motifs that I've known to be in your jewelry from the beginning are sort of celestial, spiritual, terrestrial motifs. Tell me more about, like, the celestial and the spiritual element of that.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Like, how did that develop with regards to the celestial motifs, which definitely are a part of the brand, but by no means like the major part, but maybe a part that a lot of people think of. As a kid, I was obsessed with astronomy, astrology, even the heavens, space, and also Greek mythology, Roman mythology, amongst other things that made its way into the work also. You know, when I first started the collection, it was really an exploration of death and mourning, which sounds very morbid, but I had just lost my father, and I was kind of exploring the ideas of mourning and of also celebrating those who have passed. And I was exploring how that is celebrated in different cultures. And I found that the medium I wanted to express that in was jewelry.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, that's so interesting. It's a very meaningful connection to draw inspiration from one element in your work history that I found interesting was your work also as a painting assistant to Italian artist Francesco Clemente, who became a mentor and One of your most trusted Tarot readers. So can you tell me a little bit about what you learned during your time working with him about jewelry, Tarot business?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Working for Francesco was probably one of the greatest honors of my life. And I actually ended up doing it for much longer than most people would realize. I continued to work in one way or another for Francesco up until only a few years ago. It just became a thing that I couldn't stop doing. Well, obviously it wasn't like a full time thing, but anytime there was an opportunity to assist him on a painting and I was able to, I was there. Because nothing fed me more than being around this person from a creative perspective. Like, he's truly the most creative, inspiring human being I've ever met. I started working for him in my mid to late twenties and just absorbed that level of creative intelligence. And also something that I learned from him was to really not quite question my inspiration. There are some elements of my inspiration that I questioned their validity, whether people would take it seriously or not. But seeing the way he works with his inspiration and wholeheartedly dives into everything and doesn't question it, I think was really fortifying for me. Yeah, I started my brand while I was working as a painting assistant. And it's just such a gift.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, absolutely. And you did Tarot together.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

He's an incredible tarot reader and he's also passionate about tarot. I fell in love with tar when I was about 14. As I started to create jewelry and build my brand, I was. I was pulling a lot of inspiration from Tarot and other sort of esoteric inspirations. You know, there was a part of me that definitely questioned, like, is this going to be taken seriously? I feel this stuff is valid and meaningful, but it's not fashion with a capital F to pull your inspiration from the Tarot. And so seeing that so many of my favorite artists also were fascinated with tarot and working with Tarot, from Francesco to Salvador Dali to Leonora Carrington to Alejandro Jodorowsky, there was sort of these dots connecting all of my favorite creative people to the Tarot. And so for me, that was really like a validating thing. And yes, Francesco is an incredible reader as well and has given me some very meaningful readings in my life. And his Tarot paintings are phenomenal.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Wow, that's so cool. And I actually didn't know that about those artists you named and the Tarot throughline. So while you were working with Francesco, you said you launched your brand mid.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Late aughts 2007, 2008. Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

When was the moment when you were like, okay, actually, I want to start my own brand. You know, I've been doing this as a teenager. I had an interest in jewelry, that kind of thing, where it was, like, an endeavor that I want to really put effort behind and launch a business.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

So before I was working for Francesco, I was actually working at Barney's, of all places, iconic. I was the women's trunk show coordinator. I had a friend who also worked at Barney's. She came from a jewelry background, and we started a line together. We were very close, and we would talk about it all the time. We should make jewelry together. So it just kind of came out of that love of working together and creating together. Shortly after I left Barney's to go work with Francesco, she decided to move to San Francisco. And at this point, we hadn't even really gotten the business off the ground. We started making a couple pieces. I think we sold to, like, one store on consignment. She left, and she got pregnant. And, you know, she didn't really want to pursue it, but I was like, oh, but I really love this. I really want to keep going here. I wasn't skilled as a jeweler. I had taken some metalsmithing classes, but I definitely wasn't where I needed to be. And actually my mom was visiting, and we were in the jewelry district, and she actually just walked into the jewelry exchange up to some guys and was like, can my daughter assist you? Like, she'll do it for free. And I was like, oh, my God. I ended up doing that for a little while on top of work and started making my earliest pieces while apprenticing for some guys making really basic tennis bracelets and engagement rings, it always comes back to that. I was making, like, snake cufflinks and, you know, eagle claw talons and all that stuff. And so it's always like, that juxtaposition of, like, this very straightforward stuff. And then the stuff I was doing in response to it was always this push against what was standard. So that's sort of where it started. It was a fun time to be in New York making things.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, I love that mom just inserted herself and pushed in that way. So after share, I had the five spike ear jacket style, and it was, to me, I was like, these earrings are sensational. It was my whole personality for a very, very long time. I believe I still have them, and I cherish them. And I wanted to hear about this earring, because I hope it just wasn't me. Do you think of that as One of your iconic styles.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yes. And it was a top seller for a very long time. And the way it came to be was actually quite funny. We used to make this necklace that was a carved skull. We had like a turquoise one and a jade one and carnelian quartz crystals. So it was like a hand carved skull. And at the bottom was this, like, little kind of spike. But when you are making large amounts of something, you don't cast just one. You make a casting tree. So the mold had like six or eight of them that would cast at one time. And one day I was, like, looking at them as they came out of the casting and they come out all attached, and then you clip them, and then you attach the jump ring and attach it to the necklace. And so I was like, this thing makes an interesting earring, and maybe it'll be good behind the ear. We used to say it in our offslaught jewelry happens. It was like a jewelry happens moment. Right. We ended up interpreting it in many different ways and doing 18 karat gold versions with diamond pave, doing some with hand carved stones, and it's still a solid seller for us. Now I feel like it's a little farther away from most of what we do, but it's a classic, so it stays.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, absolutely. And just the playing of the front and back.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yes.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I think I was in college, but there wasn't a lot out there like that.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

No, it was pretty much a new thing. And then it became everywhere. Right.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Everyone's like, oh, this is incredible.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

A front back earring. And then, like, once everyone had a front back earring, I grew tired of it, of the concept, if it makes sense for a design. Sure. But I no longer feel this. Like, I have to make sure I do it every season.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah. I'm curious what it was like, because from my understanding, the brand kind of took off quite quickly and kind of became like an it jewelry brand. And I wonder what that felt like as a designer having this big moment, because oftentimes on the outside, it looks like, oh, wow, overnight success, you know, and that's not always the whole story.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I definitely think the success happened very quickly. Like you said, it was a great moment. It was the right time, the right product. For me, though, it was so much work, and I was so in the work and the day to day that I didn't really step back and go, wow, we're like one of the hottest brands right now. Oh, wow. Like, we're in magazines, we're doing jewelry for all these Runway shows. And I Mean, there were moments where I was like, this is cool.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Right.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

But for the most part, even if there was a wow, this is cool moment, I was like, okay, now I got to get back to work. I have too much to do.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I have a friend who's an entrepreneur, and she says that it's like whenever you pause or you're not working for a certain period, it's like you're in a boat and there's a hole in the boat. Sure. You always have to be scooping out water, constantly working and training.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

For sure. There's always, like a fire to put out. There's always something. And when you're, like, in your 20s and you don't have the self awareness yet or like the emotional intelligence, there's not a part of you that's like, hey, this isn't gonna always be like this. Take a moment and be like, wow, holy shit. I would say, you know, that kind of success is often wasted on the young. Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

You know, and if you're so ambitious and driven and passionate about what you're doing, you're not doing it for the accolades or whatever. You're just so heads down and in it.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

As someone who's been in the jewelry industry for pretty much your whole career, I'm curious if you've seen any big shifts in fashion accessories that you. You've witnessed firsthand.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I mean, it's always changing, Right. I would say Phoebe Filo at Celine was probably a very big kind of line in the sand for where things went from like a accessories perspective and especially a fashion jewelry perspective. A lot of the silver jewelry or the costume jewelry coming out from that point on kind of shifted in its aesthetic to this more minimalist, like Elsa Peretti esque. And I think some people do it very well. The handbags and the shoes. Also, I think there was this just shift ultimately to where like, H and M Zara anywhere had this, like, Philo effect. I would say that was like a very big marker. And it was interesting to me because I appreciated Philo Slane and I liked it, but it wasn't like my be all end all. Yeah. I was like, Drees van Noten worshiper. Still am. Yeah. Like fully in the church of Drees. But not that there's a competition. I have some beautiful things from that era of Celine, but it was interesting to see what a mark she made on almost everything.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah. 1,000%. It's remarkable.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

But yeah, I think that was an interesting one because it kind of shifted what everyone was doing in a way. And it even shifted for me what I was doing for a second. And sometimes you kind of lose your way a little and you get very influenced. Nothing wrong with being influenced, but if it doesn't feel 100% true to what you want to create, then it's a problem.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Right. Ultimately, it won't sit Right.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Or. Or is unnecessary.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah. It's a little detour. Having run Pamela Love for almost two decades now, is there anything that you.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Would change about the jewelry industry? I would change the price of gold because it's getting stupid. It's making everyone's life very difficult except for people who invested in a lot of gold. I would say the price of gold should go back to where it was so that we could all freely create.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about the current collection. You have a super wide range of beautiful pieces, and I feel like your brand is a great one where someone can really find something that speaks to their personality or point of view. So I'm curious which styles have risen to the top or are Most popular?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

In 2020, we launched a piercing line, so, like a new category which is earrings, but they're typically with a threaded back or a pushback so that you can be pierced with them. Along with huggies and clickers that are smaller scale, that line has become an enormous part of the business. And even our store in Brooklyn, we offer piercing, and that's a very popular service. So I would say the piercing collection definitely has really grown as well. Our engagement ring collection, which is more bespoke, gives me the opportunity to work more closely with a lot of our clients. We can only do so many engagement rings a month, so it's a really special thing. We have a waiting list, and I just love the process. And the sterling silver line that we just launched has been doing great as well. I think there's definitely been this shift back to sterling silver for a lot of people, with the gold prices just continuing to surge.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, as I sit here, I'm wearing gold jewelry right now.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

It's okay. I'm wearing all gold jewelry too. I'm a gold lover. I recently made this big silver cuff, and I wore it around, and I kind of felt like a million bucks. I just felt awesome in it. So striking and bold. And like, working in silver allows you to go to a larger scale.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Right. A little more dramatic in some ways.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yeah. But I do live in my gold jewelry. Right.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Your daily. You mentioned inspiration a little bit before, and I just wanted to ask about it because I bet you have some really Interesting places where you look for inspiration for your designs and how you go about being creatively inspired.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Hmm. I mean, it's harder lately. I used to say that so much of my inspiration came from travel, but I don't travel as much as I used to. I have a little person.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

How little?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

He's three. Today was his first day of school.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Oh, that's a big deal.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

So, yeah, it's definitely traveling less. And I would say art, film, music, the personal style of my heroes and my icons, mythology, magic, mysticism, all the things I'm most interested in. Symbols, symbolism, and the symbols that kind of repeat themselves throughout cultures, throughout time. I would say earlier in my career that Pamela Love was an exploration of the symbols of humanity, but in a way that feels different because I feel like there's so much of that now and it needs to have its own point of view and also sort of push the envelope from a style perspective, an aesthetic perspective.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I know, and I think some designers, it's like a trend or like something that's a short lived exploration, but it's definitely part of your DNA, I feel. Okay, well, let's talk tarot, because that's. The fun occasion that brought us together was the launch of your tarot deck and book called the Infinite Door. I live in la, so maybe I'm biased that I think most people are familiar with tarot, but from your perspective, how do you use tarot in your life?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

So in my life, I use tarot. Whenever I have a question, I'm feeling lost or unsure, or even if I'm really feeling unsafe, I'm having a rough time. I go to the cards. I usually would do like a single card pull, but sometimes more to sort of look at what the cards are telling me. And I use the cards as sort of like a tool for introspection. So all these cards are teachers and you pull the card that you're meant to pull. And so I use them to guide me through tough spots sometimes just because.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, like a portal to receive messages, for sure.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I use them more when I'm struggling than not.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

When you're in need of some guidance.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Some guidance.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

How did you learn to read tarot? Was it with Francesco or.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

No, it's really easy, actually, and anyone can. I was about 13 or 14 and I went into Borders Books and I literally bought a book and a tarot deck and I read it. That was it.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Simple as that.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Simple as that.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

How to Read Tarot for Dummies.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

They literally have that book. There's literally Tarot For Dummies. And the cards themselves have the tools you need to read the cards. That's what was so brilliant about the Rider Waite deck, which was the first deck that I ever encountered. It was the first deck in the history of Tarot that had imagery on every card that sort of allowed the reader to glean the meaning.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I didn't know that. That's so interesting because that's like the classic.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

It's the classic deck for divination. Prior to that deck, there was a whole lot of other decks that were also used for playing cards, because tarot originated from Tarocci, which is an Italian playing card deck. And so if you look at the earlier decks, like the suits, like wands or cups or swords, if it's like the ten of wands, it'll have ten wands on it. That doesn't, like, tell you very much. So the Rider Waite deck was the first deck that was really created with the intention of being used solely for divination. And so therefore, the illustrations were a lot more helpful to people.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

One time I took a tarot class.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

At the Santa Monica Community College, and.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

It was sort of a wild experience. I only lasted for one class because.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

People were, like, in tears. Oh, my God.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

It was emotional wreckage all around.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

The power of Tarot.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, it was wild. And at one point, the teacher, she had this PowerPoint, and she was, you know, very spiritual person, and struggled with the tech of this PowerPoint, and then called 911, literally, the police, because the PowerPoint one starred, and it was a.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Wild ride, that class. Did you learn anything worthwhile?

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

One point that stuck with me was that she encouraged us to look at the images of the deck and sort of take intuition and feeling and read into what we saw in the imagery there. Kind of what you're saying.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yeah. I mean, it helps to have a guidebook that gives you an interpretation, but, you know, there's clues and visual tools in the cards. Yeah. And that was what was so interesting to me. Obviously, as someone who's obsessed with symbolism and the connectivity of it all, I was very drawn to that deck.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

And so many decks since then, you know, the art of Tarot is something that inspires me so much, and it was very amazing to be able to kind of put our stamp on it.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

For people who are, you know, more tentative around Tarot, I feel like sometimes they're like, oh, I might get, like, a dark message or, like, scared of something. And I'm curious. Is there a way to always see.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

A silver lining or, well, you're always run the risk of getting a message that's got some negative aspects to it. But the cards are teachers, so they're here to help you through something. No card is here to be like, something horrible is going to happen to you and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Right.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

They're here to provide you with insight onto how to deal with a horrible situation. Someone in your life isn't what they seem. Or maybe you need to reexamine your priorities. Your relationship isn't on a strong foundation. You need to rebuild from a stronger foundation if you want to go the long run. You know, like, those kind of things. Yeah. But I also think you have to go into it with an open mind. So if you're not able to go into it with an open mind, then maybe don't. Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Tell me about your book and your deck. What should our audience expect from it?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

So on this deck, I worked with Chris Minietzki, who's my longtime creative collaborator. He was actually the design director of Pamela Love for 10 years. We were even in a band together at one point. Amazing.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

What instrument did you play?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I play the drums.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Very cool. I love that.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I don't really anymore, but I did. We worked together to create this deck that has art that feels a little more surreal, Psychedelic, if you will. A little bit sci fi, even. Chris and I share a lot of similar interests and obsessions aesthetically. So this was like, an opportunity to play with so many of these, like, shared inspirations. And again, it's almost like, similar to the jewelry. It's like taking this classic, traditional deck, the Rider Waite deck, and creating something that is subversive but still honoring that.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, I love that through line.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

It was really fun. It was a really long process. From having the idea to do this to now was probably like seven years. Oh, wow. Or maybe six. Very grateful that a publisher was excited by the idea of the project and believed in it and wanted to do this with us. So thank you to Union Square and Hachette.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Well, you can tell that a lot of love and care went into the deck. I mean, the imagery is incredible and so striking to me.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Thank you. Chris is a genius. Even in the time we worked together at Pamela Love, like, he could take a scribble that I had on a napkin and.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

And transform it.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Very cool.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

We shared an office for about 10 years, just me and him in a room. So I think our brains kind of melded together a little bit. Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I also feel like, similar to jewelry, like, Creating a tarot deck, it's a legacy that you leave, you know, that's something that can be used for generations.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I sure hope so. I hope it gets used for generations. If I look at some of the decks that I love, like they've been around since. Since the early 1900s, late 1800s, you know, reprinted and reprinted. So that would be an honor.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, I wish that for your deck as well.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Thank you. And the guidebook also came out really lovely. There's some personal anecdotes in there and some insight into how to read the cards, but it's small. I like people to be able to draw their own interpretations from things but have something to start from.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Yeah, like jumping off point, but kind of trust your own intuition and messages that you're getting. Okay, well, I'm excited to ask you if you would be able to pull a tarot card for those of us listening.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Sure. You want me to do a single card pull? I think that makes the most sense if this is for everyone listening.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I think so. I think we should do it for the audience. But let's do it like this idea that if you're listening to this right now, this might be a message that was meant for you.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

I'm like nervous to see what I pull here. Oh, my God. You're not going to believe what I pulled. Okay. What? It's the devil.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Oh, my goodness.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

So it's a perfect example of a card that sounds bad. That's not.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Okay, let's hear it.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

The devil is a fantastic card because it's really talking about your shadow self. Right. It's talking about maybe there's some extravagance. You're indulging too much in something. It's really about looking at the dark side for the purpose of healing, for the purpose of clearing. If you're in a toxic relationship, this is your wake up call that it is not serving you. If you are having bad negative self doubt and negative self talk, this is your wake up call that it is not serving you and you need to stop. The devil is in the shadows and you got to bring it to the light so that you can move forward in a more positive way. Beautiful. It's also my favorite card from an illustration perspective out of 78.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

I think that's meaningful. Probably every single person listening to this show, including myself, can definitely think of a shadow.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Well, that's the brilliance of the cards. You know, there's always something. Last question.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

What else do we have to look forward to from Pamela of the brand.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

The person we have a lot of things happening. We have a very exciting collaboration coming up at the end of the year. Okay. That I, I can't talk about a little tease. But yes, I'm very excited about it. Working on some more things with the deck, new jewelry, very excited about some of the jewelry I'm working on for next year and also the jewelry that's going to come out for this collaboration in December.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Okay, well, sounds like it'll be perfect time for gifting. Self gifting.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Self gifting is beat your inner shadows. Yeah.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Once you've done your self tarot card, you can do your self gifting.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

Where can our listeners find your tarot deck?

[Guest - Pamela Love]

They can get it at Barnes and Noble on Amazon from pamelaleve.com and honestly, any number of places where you can find tarot decks and we'll have it at our store in New York and if people want to come in and peruse the cards.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

All right, well, thank you so much, Pamela. This has been a treat to talk with you and congratulations on your gorgeous new deck.

[Guest - Pamela Love]

Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

[Podcast Host - Cat Collings]

A huge thank you to jewelry designer Pamela Love. Please make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, I'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us. If you have guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a [e-mail] or you can find us on social WhoWhatWear. See you next Wednesday on the who what Where Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Himrez and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our editor is Ko Takasudi Chernevan. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio, and our music is by Jonathan.

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[Guest - Pamela Love]

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[Guest - Pamela Love]

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