← The Who What Wear Podcast
The Who What Wear Podcast
Makeup Artist Pati Dubroff on Blush Placement, Gray Mascara, and Making Press-Tour Magic With Margot Robbie
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Foreign.
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Welcome to the who what Where Podcast. I'm your host Hilary Kerr and today we are in studio with the legendary makeup artist Patty Dubrov. I am very certain that you are well aware of her iconic work with celebrities like Margot Robbie. Maybe the Barbie Press tour and Wuthering Heights Press Tour ring a bell? We're talking about some of the key looks from that. We're also talking about Patty's legendary work, like when she did Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen's look for the 2004 Got Milk ad. Bet she didn't think about that lately. But you should because it's perfect. We also talk about the incredible bridal makeup that Patty did on Sophia Richie Grange for her wedding. And so much more Patty tells us tips, tricks, techniques, exact products. It is a phenomenal episode and I am so glad that you are here to listen and see it. It's all coming up on who, what, Where. So Patti, welcome back to the pod. You and I have not sat down to talk on the record since 2001.
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A
No, 2001 or 21.
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B
2021, whatever.
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A
It's all the same.
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B
2001 before we started. Who aware. Of course. So I encourage everyone who hasn't heard that episode to go back and give it a listen because we talk all about your history but just for the listeners side note, we're going to put that episode in the show link so that people can go back and listen. But for anyone who isn't as deeply familiar with your career as I am, can you give our listeners a little background on how you first got start in the beauty world and what drew you to it?
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I was that 10 year old kid who was obsessed with makeup and was at my mother's makeup table all the time putting makeup on myself, then on her, then my friends. And then I was the person in high school who was like getting everyone ready for every party.
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B
Were you so popular?
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A
I mean I was also kind of a weirdo, but like I was a, you know, a weirdo who had a skill. Who had a skill. Yeah. So I would get everyone ready for the parties and the dances and whatever. As soon as I graduated high school in New Jersey, moved to New York City and I'm like, I always loved makeup but I didn't know it was a career. So I think like when I was growing up it was like 70s, early 80s and it wasn't a known career except the ladies who sold makeup at makeup counters. So I went to New York City to do that because I wanted to be around the makeup and Then I started assisting, you know, and I assisted some really incredible artists who really showed me the ropes and in the fashion world and the music world. I worked at MTV in the studios, and, you know, the days of, like, House of Style, I was working on, like, the first shows, and then I kind of segued into Hollywood in the late 90s, early 2000s, and I've been happily painting movie stars ever since, as well as many other kinds of people. But, you know, that's just like, the. The most condensed version I could give you in a nutshell.
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B
I love it. I have been an avid follower of your work for many, many. I'm thrilled that we get a chance to talk about how you've created some of these really iconic looks from everything from literally last night all the way back to the early 2000s. So we're going to talk about some of that, including the Actor Awards, the Artist formerly known as SAGs. And you did an incredible look on Kirsten Dunst. Could you talk a little bit about that eye and how you came to it? Because she was wearing Kate, right?
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A
She was wearing Kate. Yep.
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B
Beautiful black gown.
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A
Beautiful black gown. So the eye that I'm wearing right now is the same eye that Kiersten wore. Lip a little different. I was looking at pictures of Kiersten and some favorite, like, red carpet moments, and there was one that really stood out where her eye was a little bit sooty, and the lip was, like, her color just brought up a little bit. I loved this one particular red carpet where she had a bit of eye and a little bit of lip, and it felt, like very her. And it didn't feel like it would be too far of a departure. Just, you know, the dress also in no way read 20s or 30s, but it also, it could use a little bit of something. Something. And with her hair up really, like, kind of simple in a knot with a big velvet bow, she just kept saying she felt like herself. And, like, that's all I want is for someone to feel like the best version of themself.
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B
Yeah, I mean, it was, like, iconic Kiki.
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A
It's iconic Kiki, Right? That's exactly what, you know what you want.
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B
Yeah.
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She can take a lot of different looks.
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B
Ye.
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That. Like, that, like, eye that feels a little lived in. A little rock and roll.
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B
Yes.
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A
I mean, that's really. That's the Kiki I love so much.
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B
Yes. So tell me, like, what are the key products or key techniques to achieving that eye similar to the one that you have on right now?
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A
Yes. So what I did was I used a. A creamy rouge noir Chanel creamy pencil. Like, so it's not. It's like more like a. A thicker pencil.
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B
Like a crayon almost.
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A
It's almost a crayon. Exactly. It's the stiloe contour, and it's a little bit purple. So I put that in the waterline and along the lash lines and then blended, blended, blended to create this, like, base.
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B
Do you blend with fingers or with a brush?
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A
I use a brush on myself. I use my finger a little bit, but on someone else, I'll use a brush, and then I use, like, a matte kind of a stone color to then frame the eye some more. So matte stone, so it's all felt very kind of cool tones. Blended a lot of that matte shadow around to start blurring and blurring and blurring out the eye. And then a tiny little bit of, like, a stone color, but had a, like, light velvet shimmer in the center. Lots of mascara. Easy peasy.
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B
That is easy.
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It is easy. It can be very easy. You know, it doesn't have to take hours.
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I love that.
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Yeah.
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B
When you're doing a eye like that, how do you balance the lip so that it feels like there is balance and that's harmonious, but they're not pulling focus from each other.
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A
Yeah. I mean, sometimes you, like, really underplay the lip so the eyes really stand out. But with this particular look for Kirsten, it was like she wanted the lip to look like her lip color. And when you, like, kind of rub lip balm and then rub it off on her lip color, there are a little bit, like, tone to it. It's not paled out. It's kind of got a, like, a rosy quality. So I used a rosy tone, but matte and kind of pressed into the lip.
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B
It's almost off, but it's still there.
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Exactly. Got it.
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It's like it's again, a little lived in.
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Almost lived. Exactly. Thank you.
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Like she'd been smooching in the car.
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Exactly, exactly. Not perfectly, like, on there, that it feels untouchable.
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B
I. Well, it was a phenomenal look.
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A
Thank you.
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B
She's consistently great. The two of you do wonderful work together, but I loved it.
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A
It's been a long time we've worked together. It's been 20, 22, 23 years. Once you know someone, you kind of know what works, and it's just. It's comfortable. It feels like family.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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B
Well, speaking of which, there's another one of your clients that I wanted to Talk about at some length, the one and only Margot Robbie. I want us to talk about Barbie. But first, Wuthering Heights, because I just really feel like your work together for these last two press tours in particular is a masterclass in just really understanding the character in putting together a phenomenal press tour. My first question is, when you are starting out with a press tour, how do you start putting together what the looks overall? Because it is a significant number of dates. Yeah, these are world tours with many
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A
travel involved, many events. I was gonna say. So, like the travel involved. I definitely want to consolidate my kit. Oh, God. You know, because just traveling the world, I don't want 100 pounds of makeup. Of course, there's so many references to Barbie to, you know, be inspired by clothing wise and whatever, whatever. But it was also like, you know, not the Barbie of the 50s, 60s, 70s, where, you know, she had the blue eyeshadow per se. It was like, who's Barbie now? My wheelhouse was really about my color palettes that I kept and traveled with. And it was every shade of pink you can imagine, but then also, like some coral. There was lavender in the mix and there were some reds. My wheelhouse of color is like kind of my foundational, important piece. And then it's just looking at like, what is the day, what is she wearing, what is the event?
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Are you planned out for like every step along the way or is it more go with the flow? Depending on the day to some extent.
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A
For makeup, it's go with the flow.
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Interesting.
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For the big premieres, it's thinking about it a little bit more. But, like, for the day events and the big photo calls, I don't want to over plan because then, like, what if there's a change? Then my plans are all. Then I'm confused, you know.
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So when you're thinking about a tour, do you ever give yourself aside from, like, these are the products I'm going to take with me because it's a tour, or this is the color palette that I'm working in. Do you ever set any other rules for yourself?
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For Wuthering Heights, the look was very much inspired by her character in the film, which when we started the press, I hadn't seen the film. Oh. So no, I didn't see the film until the world premiere in la.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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So how do you plan? Well, you know, luckily, luckily I was shown some photographs from like, you know, their, you know, some sneaky peaky sneaky peakies and conversations because Margo lived in, you know, that character so, you know, she told me about what the choices they made in the character and that she, you know, really wanted to lean into that. And so from there, then, I just, you know, imagined what it would be like to be in the wind swept on the moors. Wind swept on the moors. Exactly. And, you know, what would that. What would the skin look like in that?
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B
The skin of longing.
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Oh, yeah, for sure. And then I saw the film at the LA premiere, as I said, and I was sitting next to Nana, who is Margot's makeup artist on set, who is the make her personal makeup artist, who did that incredible makeup on the screen. And I'm holding her hand, gripping her hand, like, oh, my God. And that inspired me for the rest of the tour, because then from there, there were things I noticed that Nana did, choices that she made that I was like, oh, I maybe will incorporate red eyeshadow. You know, just a little tiny bit somewhere. I'll bring that with me just in case. It was very intentionally, like, an underdone eye and a windswept feeling, you know, blush being important, obviously. And then the lip looking like it belongs.
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B
What are some of the products that are important for an eye? Understated eye. Like, is it. Are you still using product, or is it just, like, concealer on the lid?
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A
No, I definitely use product.
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B
Okay, tell me. Oh, oh, here comes the kit. Here comes the reveal.
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A
So a couple of the things that I relied upon. Well, here I want to show you. For the freckles, I used, you know Christy Schrager. Oh, yeah. And co. I used her pen. Her eyebrow pen for freckles.
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B
I love it.
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A
Yeah, that was that. It looks like she's wearing no mascara most of the time. But I did use mascara, but I used colored mascara. Oh, I used gray. Gray or taupe mascara.
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B
Oh, my God.
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I'm obsessed with, like, you know, when you say colored mascara, people think, like, purple or. Purple. Exactly. No, gray mascara.
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Interesting.
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So gorgeous.
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B
Oh, that is pretty.
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Yeah. So that was on the lashes, because the lash needs to have a little something just, like, so it's not too bare, you know, for editorial, you can, like, go with the nothing. But, like, for press, you want a little something, but I didn't want it to feel dark and overpowering. And then, like, on the lid, I would use, like, again, this is a Chanel stilo contour.
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B
Is that the crayon?
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Crayon. This is the nude one. So the lid would always have that kind of a nude base. And then, like a taupe, but indetectable.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then Like a flash of, like, a matte shadow that was a really soft kind of tone that looks like flesh. The cheek. Yeah, Talk to me about the cheek. Sold out everywhere.
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B
Did you sell this out?
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A
I mean, it sold out.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just take it, take it.
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I wasn't the only one to talk about it.
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B
With colors that our audience knows where to wait. List themselves.
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Well, this was the Berry Boost, which is gorge. But then I brought a couple, because I didn't only use that one. I used some other ones. I used this Mario one. This one was really cool. This, like, red. What is that called? Pomegranate Love.
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B
Okay.
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And then there was another Mario one that I used a lot. Dusty rose. I used that one a lot. That's when, like, it was like, not as, like, intensely blushed. When it was softer blushed. And then the lips were, you know, in that wheelhouse of, like, looking like a lip color brought up a little bit like that. Easy peasy.
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B
Talk to me about the blush placement and the blush application.
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A
It's not high on the top of the cheekbone because there would be a little bit of a highlight on the top of the cheekbone just so the cheekbones would pop out. But, yeah, it's like, it's not just the apples of the cheek. It's like the apple of the cheek and then swept aside and then maybe a touch across the bridge of the nose. So I would apply with my fingertips. Da, da, da, da, da. And then I would use various brushes to blend and blend and blend. And then concealer foundation brushes to contain.
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B
Yep.
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And then blend some more. And it was just a lot of blending to get it to just be visible enough, but not overbearing. You know, one of my big fears in this blushing of it all, the blushing trend is that people are walking around looking like crazy that they have too much blush on.
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B
They call it blush blindness.
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A
Blush blindness, yeah. I hope to not be contributing to that. I think that everyone could try to kind of, like, blend their blush out a little bit and think about. It's not thinking dolly. It's thinking, like doll. It's thinking more like weather. So just like, you would, like, if you were doing a bronzy look, you would kind of, like, do that. Like, the. The sun hit you, but you turned bronze. This is like the sun hit you, but you didn't turn bronze yet. Yeah, you're just, like, flushed from whatever activity, from running or whatever other activity you've been participating in.
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B
One of the things that I love about your Instagram account as well is the Fact that. That you have such amazing, amazing tutorials, and you really bring people into the techniques and demystifying it so that they can create some of these incredible and iconic looks at home. What are some of the key building blocks that everyone should know about their own makeup before they necessarily move on to more complicated things?
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A
Right. You're putting on a mask that you want people to react to. That's what doing makeup is. How do you want people to react? So really thinking about it like that, like, you know. Yeah, you want to look like you want to do this. Something that's really, like, intense and tough, but knowing that you're going to elicit a reaction and. Is that what you want?
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B
Interesting.
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A
It's so. It's like. That's the psychology of, like, you know, putting on makeup a little bit more. Think about your audience as you think about your. What also makes you happy? Some people don't care about the audience and just want to make themselves happy. Great. Okay.
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B
I appreciate that. Of all of the Barbie looks, and there were so many iconic ones, do you have favorites?
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A
The London premiere where she's wearing the Vivienne Westwood, and there's pearls, and that one was all about a lash. You know, I don't love false lashes, but I understand when they can really make something. Wow.
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B
Yep.
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A
And that was one occasion where those false lashes really, like, made it a wow factor. And there was no, like, liner to connect the lashes. It was very, like, almost, like, clean and lash.
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B
Yeah.
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Yeah. So that was. That was. That was definitely a favorite.
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B
So I also want to talk about some of your incredibly creative, iconic looks that you have done over the years. Knowing our audience, they will kill me if I don't ask you about the COVID of Circus Britney Spears album in two, 2008.
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A
Oh, that was. Oh, I love that one so much. That was just, like, classic Britney. Warm, smoky eye and a pale, glossy lip and just make her look expensive. There's this, like, Visart neutral palette that I have used for so many years now. I use some of the Mario matte palettes, but the Visart probably was that, and I won't remember anything else.
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B
I also think it's interesting in looking back, you use blue sparingly, but when you do, you do it in such, like, a really incredibly. Like, there's a Lily Collins moment, there's a Priyanka moment. But my favorite is when you gave Kate Bosworth this incredible slash of almost turquoise at the met gala in 2008 when she went with Chanel.
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A
Karl Lagerfeld was Her date, and she was wearing that, like, sequin, colorful and glass almost. And the theme of that Met gala was superheroes, so I wanted her to look like a superhero. So a superhero has, like, something graphic, A strong, graphic, turquoise blue matte eye.
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B
Is it just, like, the same depth all the way across, or is it.
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A
That one was pretty monochromatic. I think it was, like, very dense and matte, so it would read strong and graphic on the carpet instead of having any shimmer or anything.
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B
I loved it.
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A
Yeah. I want to dive in and find some of those images. Yeah.
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B
Okay. I also want to talk about the Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen Got milk ad from 2004.
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A
Dani Lebovitz.
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B
Yes. I know that you did a tutorial at some point of an eye that I think you probably get questions about. To this day, people still talk about.
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A
Everyone still wears that eye. It's the same, like. Yeah.
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B
What is it? Tell me about it.
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A
I mean, it's just like, using, like, a pencil, whether it's a cool brown or a warm brown, smudging it really, like, deeply into the lash line, and then giving it some blend and then sculpting the eye with, like, a matte shadow that's not too heavy. And that was very them, you know, and it's like, it's. It's forever. Yeah.
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B
I love that.
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A
I mean, I think that might have been the first day I worked with them.
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B
Are you serious?
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I am serious. Yeah. Got Milk was the first day I worked with them.
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B
Talk to me a little bit about Y2K makeup. Talk to me about the late 90s. Like, why do you think that look is having a moment again?
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A
I mean, similar to the Mary Kate and Ashley. It's like, you know, just like that perfect, like, blend of a pencil to smudge and frame the eye. It's nothing too glittery. It's just like. It all feels kind of lived in, relaxed. Not so complicated. Not so complicated. You know, just like that. There's like, a healthiness to the skin, and there's not this, like, kind of so much makeup that you're losing the person. Yeah.
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B
I also want to ask because we are approaching bridal season, and we have a whole new crop of brides who are thinking about bridal makeup. You did one of the most important bridal of recent years, which was Sofia Richie, now Sofia Richie Grange. So can you give us any key tips or tricks or things that brides should think about or ask for for flawless bridal makeup?
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A
Well, first of all, you want timelessness. Makeup can be Timeless. You know, you're not wanting to like, kind of have a trend stamp on a bridal look, you'll regret that. Definitely. The health and well being of your body, mind and spirit leading up to a wedding will enhance the beauty of the day for sure. It's not just about like only getting facials. It's like, is your mind, well, are you breathing like all of those things? Because all of that shows on the skin. Some people think like it's a special day, so they want to like, do all the things. Yeah, you don't have to do all the things for special occasions. And I think that that's where like a lot of our red carpets moments like of late really show people that like, you can have a beautiful softness for an important event and it will be forever beautiful.
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B
Okay, so not only are you a very highly sought after artist in your own industry, but you also are a partner at your agency. I think that is so incredible. And I'm wondering why it is that you thought that was something that was important, how you like your role there and why it's important to have artists on that side of the industry as well. Hmm.
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A
Yeah. I'm really proud of forward. It's been 11 years. Industries change and evolve and you've gotta go with the flow. And how can artists continue to do what they love, but to expand and think about their career with a longer lens? I love that about, you know, what we do specifically and, you know, like taking care of artists. It's like, been something I'm really proud of.
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B
I think it's so lovely that you have that artist lens on. This is what the norms are. This is what else needs to happen.
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A
Yeah, it's really nice to have a place where there are artists that are thinking about other artists, you know, and thinking about the well being.
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B
I love that.
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A
I love that too.
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B
So before you go, a little lightning round of some questions. Okay, so what is one of the most challenging looks that you have done in recent memory and why was it challenging?
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A
Okay, let me ask you, what do you mean by challenging? Like technically like challenging to recreate look, or was it a challenging environment or situation?
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B
You tell me. I'll take answer to either of those.
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A
I have one on each side that comes to mind.
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B
Tell me, please.
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A
One was a Met gala look. Difficult. Challenging like challenging client or challenging? No, no, no, no, no. Love the client aesthetic. Yeah, it just kind of like, it kind of went off the rails challenging in terms of techniques. I did an eye on Kirsten Dunst. I don't remember what it was for? It was for some red carpet pretty recently, where it's an elongated, dark, smoky eye. And that's challenging because, you know, getting it even. Getting it to not have fallout all over and to be messy.
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B
Right.
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A
Basically, to have it even. To have it read, like, not too intense, but strong enough. Not costumed, but strong enough that you can. You get the. You know, the feeling of it. It's technically challenging. It takes a little bit of extra time and attention just because you're pulling
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B
back and looking to make sure that, like, we're in the same spot.
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A
Exactly. Yeah.
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B
They say sister's not twins.
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A
Sister's not twins. Or cousins even. Yeah.
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B
Like, close enough. It feels very Tom Fordy. Yeah.
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A
It was very editorial. And for, you know, for editorial, it's
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B
easier because you can always fix it in post.
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A
Exactly. Red carpet.
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B
No.
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A
Do not have that option at all.
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B
Could you tell me one product that you think is overhyped and one product that you think does not get enough hype or attention or love like an undercover winner.
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A
Overhyped. I mean, I love a lip pencil. Right. We all love a lip pencil, but sometimes the lip pencils are being used a little, maybe too much. Maybe it's a technique thing I get. Like, people maybe want their lips to look bigger, and they don't want to go for, you know, fillers and things like that, but just know that tether it in reality. Yeah. It's just gonna look like overdrawn pencil, not like your lips are that much bigger.
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B
And what about an unsung, underhyped product?
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A
Well, I guess when we're talking about, like, alternatives to, you know, procedures, I use these eye drops that open the eye. They're called upneec, and it opens the eye in a way that's fantastic. It makes me feel like I'm on Ooh. And, you know, like, when my eyes are a little bit sleepy, I feel a little, like, maybe less present.
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B
Got it.
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A
So, okay. I love a big, open eye, and this is a great way to do it. And there's no surgery. Surgery involved.
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B
Upper bluff in a bottle just for the night.
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A
Upper bluff in a drop.
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B
Yeah, there we go. There we go. So what about, like, is there a skin product where you're like, everyone should have this concealer or this moisturizer, or is there a highlighter that works on, like, everyone's skin or a lip?
- [24:58]
A
Well, there's this skin care product. It's a serum that I discovered. I guess it's about a year and a half now. Maybe Only a year called plated and their exosomes, and it's completely changed my skin. I used to have these, like, very strong pigmentation spots. They're faded. Like, even when I was doing my makeup today, I was going to, like, conceal the pigment spots that I know are there. They're not there anymore. And I know that it's the consistency of this particular exosome product.
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B
Whoa.
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A
So plated.
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B
Okay. What is the least amount of time that you've ever had to do someone's glam for a big.
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A
Can I give you five?
- [25:37]
B
Yes.
- [25:38]
A
Well, I can give you one. I remember going to Las Vegas, you know, for that CinemaCon, and we had to do glam in the private jet
- [25:47]
B
in the air, and it's turbulent going into Vegas.
- [25:49]
A
Yeah. Well, no one thought of that. So that was. The glam time that was allotted was, like, the jet time. Okay. We're in the jet for 45 minutes. You do glam then or whatever. It was an hour. It was so bumpy. It was so hard. And because straight out of the plane, she had to go into, like, you know, all those press events, blah, blah. That was one that was tricky.
- [26:13]
B
Okay, so what is one thing that anyone listening to this podcast can do to improve their beauty routine?
- [26:20]
A
Look in the mirror and find self acceptance. Bottom line, period. The end. That's it. It's so simple. Because if people could really, truly like, find self acceptance when they look at themselves, their inner beauty would come out. And I have body chills just thinking about it. Most people avoid mirrors. Most people get in a mirror and they start tearing themselves down and picking things apart, and it's really sad. And how do you begin a beauty routine from a place where you've already, like, decided that you don't like the way you look? You can't do it. You have to find self acceptance.
- [27:03]
B
I love that.
- [27:04]
A
Patty. Yeah.
- [27:05]
B
Okay, last question. Who is your personal favorite makeup artist who is working right now? Let's give someone their flowers.
- [27:11]
A
Oh, did you see the Gucci show that just happened a few days ago? Oh, my God. Sam Visser.
- [27:17]
B
I knew you were gonna say Sam.
- [27:18]
A
I knew. I mean, superstar Sammy. I, like, I'm so proud of him.
- [27:24]
B
Yeah.
- [27:25]
A
I mean, he's like. He's. Yes. He's like my kind of adopted child, but watching him flourish and grow and create this, like, powerhouse career for himself is just so incredible. And he's so talented, and he's so kind, and he's so much fun, and I love him so much. And he's part of my family. And, like, he's like the only makeup artist I would like allow to touch my face, you know, I mean, sometimes he, like, puts tape on me and it's really uncomfortable and it's like, a lot. But I love him so much. I'm so proud of him.
- [28:01]
B
Aw.
- [28:02]
A
Yeah.
- [28:02]
B
That's wonderful. Well, Patty, thank you so much. Anytime with you is just a delight. I get such a kick out of seeing you and hearing about your work and admiring it from afar. I know how crazy busy you are. So thank you so much for taking the time to sit down and chat with us today. Thank you, Patty.
- [28:20]
A
Yay.
- [28:27]
B
A huge thank you to celebrity makeup artist Patty Dupoff. You can now watch all episodes of the pod on our new who What Where? Podcast YouTube channel. So please subscribe and check us out there if you have any guest suggestions or any other feedback. Find us us on social at whowhat Where. See you next Wednesday on the who what Where Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio, and our music is by Jonathan, Leah,
- [29:11]
A
Sam.