← The Why Files: Operation Podcast
The Why Files: Operation Podcast
The Basement: MrBallen | YouTube's Best Storyteller Tells His Own
03:51:19
-Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://hims.com/thewhyfiles to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. -If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without...
Loading summary
Transcript610 lines
- [00:01]
Host
You know how two people can be the exact same age, but one has more energy, sleeps better and recovers faster. That difference usually isn't about how many birthdays you've had. It's about what's happening underneath the surface. That's why I want to tell you about the Truage test from True Diagnostic. It's an at home test that uses epigenetics markers on your DNA to determine your biological age. You get your biological age, your pace of aging, plus a breakdown of how 11 key organ systems are aging, including your heart, breath, brain, lungs and liver. You also get over 75 longevity biomarkers translated into clear, easy to understand insights about things like metabolic health and immune function. And instead of just giving you data, trudiagnostic provides personalized recommendations for sleep, nutrition, exercise, supplements and lifestyle changes. The test is simple, just an at home finger prick. Mail it back in the prepaid kit and in about two to three weeks you'll get your full report online. So if you're serious about longevity or even just curious whether your body is aging faster or slower than your actual age, this is one of the easiest ways to find out right now. Go to trudiagnostic.com and use code Y files for 20% off your entire order. That's true diagnostic.com code Y files for 20% off. Today we're talking with John Allen. You know him as Mr. Ballin, the guy in the flannel with the strange, dark and mysterious stories. In SEAL training, they called him Shakespeare. There was one strip of sand where the instructors left students alone and John spent it telling stories to keep his class sane. That instinct survived a grenade in Afghanistan and a medical retirement. Then it made him famous. They called me Shakespeare Folsom. You know, for telling stories, for organizing a theater program. We did Cats. I have regrets. Today we're covering how that happened, what the success cost them and and the craft of a story 5 million strangers will stop scrolling for. His new book is the Terror Within Nine Illustrated Stories four Never told anywhere. The Terror Within. Great title. My memoir's got a similar one, the terror within 14ft of my Bowl. It's about the crab cat feet. A crab cat. Partway through, John tells a few stories from his military years he's never told anywhere else. And it gets kind of heavy. I'm glad he trusted me with it. Stick around after the episode and I'll pop back in and untangle the conversation. I there's going to be some surprises at the end like there always is. Let's go down to the basement, John. Welcome to the basement.
- [02:43]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Thank you, man.
- [02:44]
Host
All right.
- [02:46]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
So happy to be here, dude.
- [02:47]
Host
Are you really?
- [02:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, no. Really? No, I'll be honest, straight up about it. Like, I have seen in our comments for years, not like, oh, dude, I love the Y Files. Like, this is crap what you do, but more like, dude, you and AJ, you gotta get together. Like, what? These are my two shows, like Mr. Ballin and the Y Files. And. And so I've always been aware of you and your show. I see clips of you all the time. I saw you went on Shawn Ryan and I was like, secretly, like, that's awesome. Like, I don't think swear on this show.
- [03:20]
Host
Definitely can.
- [03:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. And I. And no, just you're someone that I've always really respected. I love. Like, you talked about craft before the show. Like, it's so obvious that you put so much care into building out your show and, like, it's so uniquely yours. And I know how much work goes into this and how much skill goes into this, and I've just respected you from afar and it's really cool to finally be collaborating, as they say.
- [03:48]
Host
That was very sweet. I wasn't going to start with this, but since you were so nice, I probably have to credit you for at least my early success, because I was just floundering in obscurity, doing my weird stuff with the fish. And my brother's like, you should post on Tick Tock. And I was like, no one watches this on Tick tock. He's like, Mr. Ballin does it. I said, I don't know how that is. So I go, and I see your. I'm like, wow, it's working for him. So I did it. It didn't work for me on TikTok. It worked for one video. Then I shadow banned, but it did drive some people into the channel. And it was because it was because of you. You kick the door in.
- [04:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's so weird. Like the. The Tik Tok thing, man. Like, so you, You. You said the little story there. I. I was at Great Wolf Lodge, the indoor water park. I have three kids, they're very young. And. And our family vacation of choice is always like some indoor water park or anything to do with water.
- [04:38]
Host
That's.
- [04:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That's our family vacations. It's the best.
- [04:40]
Host
I figured you'd have like a weird love hate relationship.
- [04:43]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I mean, I do.
- [04:44]
Host
It's complicated, right? Yeah.
- [04:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Actually, earlier today, I was actually in Los Angeles for an advertising conference and I was near the Pacific Ocean, and it's Funny. I go down to the water, I go for a little run, it's so beautiful. And I'm just staring at the ocean and remembering what it was like in the seal training. But back to the water park thing. So I post the story about the missing hikers and personally I've always been really into, just as a consumer I've been really into strange, dark and mysterious true stories or things that are purported to be true. I used to love watching that channel, Dark 5. I don't know if you are familiar with like it was. I just love that channel. It's like if I was going to put something on the Internet, if I was going to put on something on YouTube, it was always going to be something like that. And I, I told that story and, and then I come back from being in the water park and it's, it's gone viral. But like I'm a 30 something year old dad of multiple kids. I was like in the military and I did intentionally post something on social media. It isn't like I didn't do that well.
- [05:53]
Host
You were trying a few different things.
- [05:54]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was. But like truly nothing came close. So it never really felt like I actually was like, oh, I'm a content creator.
- [06:01]
Host
Are there really TikTok videos of you dancing?
- [06:03]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They've been eradicated.
- [06:05]
Host
What? Did they exist though? They did.
- [06:08]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No. The worst one was, I think it was like so cringey. Like I'm pretty good about talking about stupid stuff I've done. The worst one I did was so this is, this is pre virality. This is like get up and show us. It wasn't a dance. It wasn't a dance. It was, there was this, there was a trend on TikTok. This is like late 2019 where early TikTok and probably still today. It was like almost exclusively kids. It's like teenagers. Like I, I was generations older and I'm not even old. But like for Tick Tock, like you're old, right? And the, the trend was these kids would like tell a sort of innocuous story that was sort of like maybe about some stupid thing that happened to them. Like when they like spilled milk on their pants in front of their, their friends at school or something. But they would do it while singing into the Auto Tune feature on Tick Tock. So it's like this weird, like you're singing a song about how you like pooped your pants when you were in fifth grade to like auto tune. And I was like, I should do that. I told a story about something to do with Navy SEAL training. But, like, I remember I had, like, I did, like, 50 takes. I'm sitting in my truck outside of Starbucks and in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, where I was living at the time, and I finally had it. I'm like, that's great. That's the one post. And then it was like, who's this? Unk.
- [07:33]
Host
Oh, no, that's the worst.
- [07:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And then I'm like, all right, that's bad. But the dude. Yeah. Like, everything just sort of took off. And even now, like, you know, TikTok was where it began, and I transitioned it to YouTube and it's like, that's a whole thing now. But I think people say this and they feign humility in a way, like, oh, I can't believe this is happening. But, like, really? I was like, I'm gonna go be a Navy seal. I'm going to. I'm going to devote myself to this. This is going to be my thing. And I fucking did it. I became a Navy seal. This is like a career path. And I was. I couldn't have been more proud. Like, it. And then, you know, goes sideways. I'm. I'm getting hurt in Afghanistan. I actually stuck around in the teams for a couple of years. I did another deployment before I was medically retired, but it was because of the injury. But then it's like, I'm suddenly a civilian, and it's like, dude, now what?
- [08:24]
Host
Now what?
- [08:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I'll just post cringe stuff on TikTok. But it, like, it. You know, it's just weird, you know, Like, I. I feel like such an imposter. And also confident. Like, I'm very confident in what I do, but. But, like, I was at this. In this advertising conference, you know, literally today and yesterday, and it went great. Like, we're partnered with serious. They're awesome. And they. We want to meet clients. And, like, we had these great meetings with, like, advertisers and. And brokers. It's, like, great. But the whole time I'm like, what are we doing? Like, what is this? How is the. How am I being, like, ushered on stage? And here's Mr. Ballin. Like, whoa. It's, like, so surreal.
- [09:04]
Host
You know, Jen and I just came back from LA and we kept saying, whose life is this? Because it's so unlikely what happened, certainly to me, but because you're much younger than I am. So unlikely. Did you know how. Here's what I tell people about YouTube is if I knew how hard it was, I probably wouldn't have done it has weight Loss ever felt like a losing battle? Maybe you start off consistent, but life happens and you take a day off which turns into weeks, maybe months. Hitting your summer goals can be different when trying weight loss by HIMSS, which allows you to access an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen, plus the support to actually stick with it. Everything is accessible online too. HIMSS will connect you with a licensed provider who determines if treatments are right for you. And if you're prescribed, your medication can be delivered right to your door with no insurance necessary. And it doesn't stop there. HIMSS can make hitting your goals feel seamless with 24. 7 messaging with your care team plus in app lifestyle and nutrition support, recipes, meal plans, fitness videos and more. They offer a range of affordable options with a treatment plan personalized to you with unlimited dosage changes as needed. So are you ready to reach your goals? Visit himss.comthewifiles for a personalized affordable plan that gets you. That's hims.comthewifiles Weight LossByHims is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Nova Nordisk as to get started and learn more, including important safety information will go via clinical study information and restrictions, visit hims.com oh God, it's so hard, man. But people don't realize how because they're like Mr. Ballin is because you so huge.
- [10:43]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It was quick. Yeah, it was rapid. Like I. The weird thing is when I really think about like where have I in my life used, let's say Navy seal, my experience as a Navy seal, where have I used those things that I sort of learned about myself in my life? Where have I done it? And honestly I only have one place that I can, I can honestly say I channeled my inner Navy Seal. And it was in the first six months of making YouTube videos and it was because to put out consistent videos when it's basically a one man show over and over and over again, it sounds so silly. It's the video dude. Like what's that dude? To put a script together even if you don't even adhere to the script to just make something make sense that can be translated across like different generations operations and like to do the research and then to be on camera, like that's not a natural thing. Like you're, you're awesome at it. Like you're really a natural. I wasn't and like early on I had to sort of like do so many takes. So Many takes and no prompter, right? You're just like, no, no, I, I, well, because I spent so much time researching it, I go right into recording that. A lot of time it was fresh. But no, I didn't, didn't use a prompter at all.
- [11:57]
Host
I tried that. I couldn't do it. I need the prompt.
- [11:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's brutal. It's brutal without the prompter, dude. Even now, like, I still. We have a prompter now, but, like, there's. I, it's almost ingrained to sort of go off the cuff a little bit, but I would. I remember having so many moments in the first six months of doing YouTube when, like, it's objectively being really successful. Like, I, I, I have lived an incredibly modest life before that. Like, I did not come from any sort of money or anything. And, like, almost literally overnight, you know, videos are being posted on YouTube that are making thousands of dollars in a day. Like, in a day that's happening. There was a video, I remember I posted a video that it was like, post next, like, $18,000 for, like, one video. And I, I have, I have never even come close to this. And so it's like the work that I'm putting in is being almost instantly rewarded. And it's also, like, I love this content. I really do, but the grind is so intense. And I would have moments where I'm like, on my third Red Bull, and I've been up for, like, three, not three, like, two days. And I have, I know I have easy four, five, six hours before I even record, and I gotta edit it myself. I would literally say to myself, I'm, like, delirious. You were a fucking Navy seal.
- [13:19]
Host
You'd have to psych yourself.
- [13:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You can outwork the other aspiring YouTubers out there. And, like, so help me God, I did. But there were, there were stretches of time that. It sounds so silly, but, like, SEAL training and BUDS is, like, objectively a challenging thing. But it's so structured. Here's what you're going to do. Either you do it or you don't. But with a creative venture where it's, like, all on you, there's no end, you just sort of, like, go as much as you can, you work as hard as you can. And then sometimes, like, when things don't go well, like, there's no one there to be, like, don't worry, buddy. Like, get them next time. Like, no, you just got to pick yourself back up and do it. And the hours are crazy. The pressure is insane. I think what people also don't know is like, if you've hit any level of success on YouTube at all, you really stop thinking in terms of, boy, like, this video did really good. No, it's like, boy, I hope it doesn't suck. That's it. The metric is I hope the views aren't so bad that the channel starts to deteriorate.
- [14:18]
Host
Well, you know what sucks when you post it, right? You know, that's terrible. I work 80 hours a night and sucks and they're gonna tell me it sucks?
- [14:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yes, dude. Every week. But it's like the algorithm, unfortunately, like you're tethered to it. I mean, like, you're foolish if you, if you don't think you are. If you want to make a career over any amount of time doing YouTube, doing like digital media today, you are beholden on some level to the performance of your video in the algorithm. And so you have to sort of play the game of understanding what's going to make it perform, what's not without selling yourself out. And my God, like, you get the hate comments. That's part of life. You get like, sort of the criticism that way. But I, I started to attach my self worth to like the performance of a video, which is so silly. Like it's.
- [15:05]
Host
Yeah, but you're speaking in my heart right now, dude. And like, and I stopped doing true crime. I've only done a few true crimes because it's so risky with the algorithm.
- [15:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh yeah.
- [15:14]
Host
So you even early on, like before you were in the partner program, you must have been like, am I going to see the orange dollar sign all the time?
- [15:21]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, it's like.
- [15:21]
Host
Because it's like, oh, I don't get paid this week.
- [15:23]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yep. Oh, yeah. Oh, good. I put in all this time and I suffered for this and it's a great episode, but it will do. It might even hurt my channel because it's demonetized. We. We had a deluge of we. I. It was reds and oranges. Like there, there, there was a video. Oh my God. Like it's, it's funny because you totally get this. Like the video was like 50 some odd minutes long. So, like long. It's about an hour long and like right out the gate, it was dominating. Like it was, it was, I think it was like 10 million views in the span of like a few weeks or something.
- [15:58]
Host
Wow.
- [15:58]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It was like. And even better was at the. Is a buddy of mine, Ephraim Matos. He's a former Navy seal. We served together. He. Unbelievable story. Forget how you feel about like Geopolitics and stuff.
- [16:11]
Host
He.
- [16:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's a Navy seal, right? And I think he went to Iraq when he was. Or in Syria or something when he was a seal. We didn't deploy together. And he left the military, he left the SEAL teams because he felt a calling to go fight ISIS because the US Military wasn't in his mind, doing enough. And he literally left the military and by himself went to Iraq and fought isis. He joined up with, like, faction military groups and filmed it, and he ended up and filmed it, and he saved this little girl. There's a video that made it all over the world because this little girl was pinned down outside of Raqqa in Syria, I guess it was Syria. Her whole family's been killed. They've been lined up at a wall. They've all been shot down, and it's just bodies against the wall. And Ephraim had found out because he was working with this underground group that was, like, fighting ISIS and trying to save victims that they had left this. This pile. And they believed there was one little girl who had survived, and she was laying under the bodies of, like, her family. And so it's broad daylight. There are all these trucks with, like, their black ISIS flags and everything, like, parading around the area. And Ephraim goes up there behind an Abrams tank, and he runs on camera, picks this girl up under a hail of gunfire and runs her back behind the tank and gets shot in the process. He gets shot and he saves this girl's life. And so I told his story of. He was the guy that, when I was in training for the in. But this is actually a very humbling moment that Ephraim and I are connected. In the early part of SEAL training, there's this test you got to do. I think it's called life saving. It's just called life saving. And it's. It seems like, not a big deal, but it's brutal. You have to jump in the water and. And like, the way a lifeguard is trained, you kind of do a lifeguard save of. Of your instructor, but they pick, like, the six foot eight, of course beast who's gonna fight you in the water. And they refer to it as, like, the puking evolution, because there's no way to do it without, like, just totally being gassed.
- [18:12]
Host
And you're on no sleep.
- [18:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, this is. This is like a day after hell week when you've been up for, like a week. And so, because technically you have to pass this lifeguarding test anyways, I get out of the water after failing my various attempts, I eventually passed it. And, like, everyone's just done attempts, and everyone's miserable, and we're all, like, shivering on the pool deck, and I'm, like, dramatically heaving. Like, I've just done the test. I was really, like, like, hamming it up to make sure everybody knew how hard I tried. And Ephraim just goes, shut the up.
- [18:43]
Host
Just. Wow.
- [18:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Shut the. And he, like, got in trouble for even speaking out of turn, but he's like. He was like, shut the up. It's hard for everyone. And I was like, oh, that's like, a lesson, right? And I was like, yep, stop performing. Like, stop performing your drama. But I opened the episode with. With that little story and then this. And Ephraim, by the way, is, like, the most, like, non. You wouldn't think, wow, that dude would drop everything and go fight isis. He's, like, this totally normal guy. I mean, he's very skilled, like, an incredible shot. Like, tactically a brilliant guy, but just the most normal dude. Just, like, doesn't swear, doesn't cuss. Just a normal dude. Super low key. And I told his story, and he actually started this charity called Operation Strong Stronghold Rescue, where he goes to conflict zones, like, with no help from any government, and, like, rounds up support from locals that are often, like, family and stuff, and just, like, does guerrilla missions to often save people that are, like, in the middle of genocides and, like, mass killings and stuff. And he saves so many people. He films it all, but he had no funding because he has no idea how to do it. I. I do this video. This is gonna make me sound so lame. We do this video where I have this big call to action at the end, like, go support Ephraim. He has this thing, Stronghold Rescue, and it's a great charity. His funding jumped, I think it's, like, to millions of dollars now. And it's, like, largely on the strength of him and his story. But this was the mouthpiece. And so this story goes mega viral. It's got, like, so many views, demonetized.
- [20:16]
Host
Why?
- [20:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I don't know. Bodies, probably, probably. But doing them. This is. That makes me sound so lame. But it's like, this is a video that was probably. It would have made hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's like, none.
- [20:30]
Host
But.
- [20:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But the upshot is it was so cool with Ephraim. It was, like, the amazing silver lining. So anyways, it's just like, that's. That's the nature of the beast, though, you know?
- [20:39]
Host
Like, does everyone still do that? Can we still support the show.
- [20:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, yeah.
- [20:42]
Host
How does he get through the red tape overseas with doing.
- [20:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I don't know. At this point, he's, like, connected with, like, parts of the world that only you get connected if you're in this world. But he is, like, you know, a fiercely, like, religious, just very driven guy who is just like. I mean, I honestly, he's the guy that's probably going to die in a hail of gunfire saving somebody's life. And, like, this is his calling. Like, he's just. I'll, like, talk to him. He's like, I'm in Cambodia right now. Like, of course you are. You know, but he's. He's so chill. Like, he came to. I did a show a couple of years ago in Massachusetts, and he, like, showed up unannounced for it, and he's. He, like, waited in line to, like, come up and see me. Like, dude, Abram, hell, dude.
- [21:27]
Host
You hire a shark as your lifeguard. Technically, he's watching the water, just not for the reason you'd hope. There's a reason you wouldn't hire a shark to keep you safe in the ocean. Just like there's a reason why Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Here's the truth behind the founder John Morgan started this firm after his brother Tim was catastrophically injured as a teenager working at Disney World. Tim's case got mishandled, and John walked away knowing the system was rigged against the families who couldn't fight back. So he built something better. For over 35 years, Morgan and Morgan has fought for the people going up against powerful companies who'd rather your case just quietly disappear. Compassion, transparency, no upfront fees. Hiring them is like hiring an army for battle. Over a thousand lawyers, 100 offices, all 50 states. Making sure your file never vanishes. That's part of how they've recovered more than $30 billion for. For their clients. Not all law firms are the same. Hire the wrong one and you may be beat before you even start. If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan, and their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to for the people.com y
- [22:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
but he's. Yeah, he's incredible, man. There's some incredible people in the military I think that people look at. I'm generalizing, but I think there's a lot of thought that, like, there's like, an archetype to those that, like, join the military, especially special operations. But it's like the people I've. I've Met in the SEAL teams. There's just a little part of special operations are some of the most interesting and just brilliant people. Like, there was this guy was like this total, like, just like skinny, goofy guy. Like, just looks like, weighs 100 pounds kind of guy. He's like a scraggly beard and. But he, he was gifted at. At everything. Everything. Didn't matter what it was. He would be the best at it. He set the course record for our. There's a shooting. A shooting course that we do in Mississippi that like, for the history of the Navy SEAL teams, Like, every Navy SEAL goes and does the shooting course. So it's like the best shooters of one of the most elite groups in the military. This is where they train. And at the end of their block of training, they do this shooting course. He goes and blows it away.
- [23:42]
Host
He sets the record.
- [23:43]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Blows it, blows it away. Like, he, he. He beat the instructors. Oh, yeah, man. Like, whatever. Like, he, he. One time, we're like in the gym, we're talking about who can deadlift the most weight. He doesn't lift. He does not lift any weights. Zero weights. And like 400 was on the bar and he's like, oh, I can do that. Goes deadlifts £400. Like traditional. He like, picked up skateboarding while we're in Afghanistan and there's nowhere to skateboard. It's like rocks. But there was this little strip of. Of linoleum in our crappy gym we had. And he like, quickly learned how to like, 360 flip and like front side flip. Like, immediately.
- [24:15]
Host
Anyone could do it. Yeah.
- [24:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, no. He became a professional wakeboarder just like on. On the side over one summer. He's like, yeah, I picked it up. He's a competing in wakeboarding competitions.
- [24:25]
Host
I love people like this dude.
- [24:26]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's just. But they're just people out there that are just like, so amazing. And you see him a lot in. In special operations, actually. It's pretty cool.
- [24:32]
Host
I think all operators are a little crazy. Little. A little tweet.
- [24:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
One of my buddies, this dude, he was just a total adrenaline junkie. And he was just known for just like, getting hurt all the time. He also, he was a dog handler. And the dogs are like, amazing. They're terrifying. They're Belgian Malinois. I don't know if you're familiar with these dogs. Just fierce animals. These are not normal dogs, and they're so well trained. And he would bring his dog into my hut in Afghanistan, and the dog's looking at me and he'd I'm going to go get something to eat and I'm sitting in the room with this dog that will not touch me.
- [25:09]
Host
But it'll stare you down.
- [25:10]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But it'll stare me down, but. So we had a skydiving block where like one of the things you're taught is if you pull your. If you're under canopy and even if the canopy is degraded in some way, if you can land it, you don't ditch it. You don't go to your reserve because you know your reserve might be worse than your main, right? And so you're taught you absolutely, you do not ditch if you can land it, even if you're going to really hurt yourself. But the reality is when you're actually under canopy and you're careening down and you got some stuff going on, you're probably going to ditch it. Like, that's the reality of it. And so I remember there was one night where we did. It's called a wall locker jump. We have like £100 of gear on. It was stupid pack that you like dangle down by this long cord. It's like, it's a, it's a joke. It's what you do with like a high altitude jump where you need, you need every piece of kit for every environment. It's designed to be like, we're gonna give you all the stuff and we're gonna see if you can jump. And so it's like really sketchy to land under the best of conditions.
- [26:06]
Host
Are you standing there while they're loading you up and you're like, dude, how much?
- [26:09]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, dude, it's a joke.
- [26:10]
Host
What do I need all that for?
- [26:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You're an idiot.
- [26:12]
Host
Five flashlights.
- [26:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And he, his chute was all jacked up. And like, normally we have radios that once you're sort of low enough to the ground, you can call it in and be like, yeah, I have an issue. And we're in training. He doesn't call it in that he's got such. He can't. He can only turn the chute one way. The other side is fully compro. And basically the way skydiving any parachute works is when you pull down on the toggles, it flares your parachute and you slow yourself down. It's really similar to flying a plane. Not that I've done it, but it's like flaring the wing slows you down. And he basically couldn't flare his parachute and he's torching towards the ground and
- [26:48]
Host
you need to flare to land safely.
- [26:49]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, dude. Torching and all he did. And it's nighttime. He can't even see the drop zone.
- [26:54]
Host
Oh no.
- [26:55]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Not even on night vision. Just nighttime. And so he's blasting in with his hundred pounds of gear and just goes, coming in hot blasts into the ground. He broke, broke his ankle or something. Just got up. He's like, yeah, whatever. But like me, I am a Navy Seal and I wouldn't have done that. I probably would have ditched the main, but you know. Anyways. Pretty funny guys.
- [27:15]
Host
I love those guys. That was a good segue. Something I wanted to ask you. Your old bio said. That's a quote. Just another number one world ranked video game player turned philosopher turned Navy seal turned nonprofit CEO. Number one in the world.
- [27:31]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [27:32]
Host
At skate.
- [27:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
At skate.
- [27:34]
Host
Is that true? Were you number one?
- [27:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
So the truth is, is I was briefly ranked in the top 30.
- [27:38]
Host
Okay.
- [27:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I know for a fact I was 30th for sure. But I only found out like after. So here's the story. So skate came out like in 2000 and maybe like nine or eight or something.
- [27:53]
Host
It's like, are you grinding leaderboards while flunking out of UMass?
- [27:56]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, same, same time frame, perfect time frame. And so I, I would actually get super and I would play skate and I would sit in my mom's basement and I would just play skate. And so it used to be like, you know, Tony Hawk's Pro skater was the precursor. And it was like left, square up, circle was sort of how you did tricks. But on skate, it was the first time that everything was done with the two joysticks. Like all tricks, it was just slight variations of the joystick. And so anybody can flick the joysticks around and do random tricks, but to be precise required a lot of practice. And so the game that you played online for skate is you. It's sort of like horse basketball where like somebody sets a trick and you gotta match it or you get a letter. It's. It's S K A T E. And again, anybody can do some random trick, but can you do a trick on command? And it's very right, right. And I became like savant level good at doing these tricks. And I had, I am not doing this to set records. I didn't even know like this is early my playing online for any game. So I'm not thinking at all about like how good I am at this game. But after playing for quite a while, I began to notice. I think it actually was on skate two. I didn't even notice on skate one. Skate One, I crossed skate. Two, I was doing the same thing. I used to get on with people that I knew were really good and I would intentionally give up letters to make it more challenging for myself. So I would like. And it pissed people off. But I'm like, I don't care. One day I open up my PlayStation and, and I'm just. I noticed that there's always these little like male icons in the top right corner of my thing. And I just, I don't, I never thought about it, didn't. I've been playing video games since I was like nine. I'm like an offline gamer other than skate, you know. And I was like, what is. I've always wonder what that is. And so I open it up and there are like five thousands. Just so many messages. I held the scroll down button. It's like it just kept on going all the way down.
- [29:57]
Host
Compliments.
- [29:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Mostly people. Mostly people telling me how much they hated me. Do you suck? But it was people being like, you're the number one world ranked player. Like, you're terrible. I couldn't beat you, man. You're not as good as like the other guys. But it. All these references to me being the best player in the world and I'm like, what? And so you didn't know? I didn't know.
- [30:16]
Host
Let's talk about the number the Fed doesn't want you to say out loud. PCE inflation just came in at 4.1%. That's double their own 2% target. A target they've now missed five years in a row. And here's the part of that that should really get your attention. The Fed's own projection says we don't get back to 2% until 2028. That's three more years of your dollar buying less than it does today. You're already feeling it. Grocery bills are up 32% since 2020. Retirees have lost 26% of their purchasing power. And if your 401k isn't up 30% or more in real terms, you're not gaining, you're going back backwards. And it doesn't stop there. The next wave of inflation is already in the pipeline. Here's the thing. Gold and silver were never really a bet on inflation. They're insurance against the currency that's losing value on purpose. Golden Crest medals can show you how to move part of your IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver, tax and penalty free or help you buy directly if that's a better fit. It's a free Conversation. No pressure, just information. Visit goldencrestmetals.com the Y Files or text the Word files to metals. That's 63825. You'll receive a free investor kit explaining how physical gold and silver can be added to an IRA or 401k, a free portfolio review with no obligation or hard sell, and on qualifying purchases, up to $25,000 in bonus silver.
- [31:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so I open, I had, I had invitations from EA not to be like, you're going to join the skate team. It was like, do you want to play the next, the next beta for the next skate game to give us your. But months after the fact, I've missed, I've missed the boat. And I, I pulled up the current leaderboard. I think it was like 29th or 30th, but it's like of the world and they only show the top 50. And there's like probably at least, you know, several hundred thousand, if not a million people playing this game. And then it actually was funny. I, I didn't really enjoy playing the game because no longer is it really about fun. It became like, well, I gotta maintain this ranking now.
- [32:11]
Host
That's an interesting personality point because it came back around again. Yeah, dude, I just want to make videos. And then you crushed it. You're like, oh, now the pressure's, dude.
- [32:19]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's true. It's. It became a job.
- [32:22]
Host
It's not fun anymore. It works.
- [32:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It is, but it's a different kind. It's a job. It's a job. Like that video game became a job. And so look, I could only play it really and enjoy it. I should say offline. And I was exceptionally good at it. But like, the fun was that I got to beat people always. I never lost. I just never lost. I mean, I did, but it was like so rare that I would give people four letters and just like I'd spend an hour just like never giving up my final letter because it was fun. And then that was it. It was just, that's what I did. And then it was like, well, wait a minute, now I have to maintain it. It was just, it wasn't fun anymore. Actually, that was one of the. When I got to Bud's SEAL training, they make you give your fact. And that was my fact.
- [33:03]
Host
That was your fact Skate.
- [33:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was like, I was briefly top ranked in an obscure video game 10 years ago.
- [33:08]
Host
Oh, you had to get wedgies for that. Like, they were like, that's it. This one saved the kids.
- [33:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
This guy's like, I was national champion wrestler D1. And I'm like, I briefly was really good at a weird skateboarding game.
- [33:21]
Host
That's hilarious. The nonprofit stuff is interesting. What was the operators association? Were you kind of mentoring young people going into the.
- [33:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, dude, I appreciate you. Yeah, there was a period of time so I was medically retired from the Navy in end of 2017. And then Mr. Ballin, the viral moment, the posting of the hiker video, happened in very early 2020. So there's like two year window there where I did stuff. And what I did is in an effort to find myself a job, I wound up connecting with some sort of random people in New York that were business people, one of which is a great guy, this guy Jordan Selleck, who was this former investment banker turned on Twitter entrepreneur and. And like, it just so happened he was sort of trying to help his buddy who was a fighter pilot who was like, trying to find his way in the world. We connected on LinkedIn. It's a whole thing. It turned into Jordan, who's like this master networker, he says to me, he's like, dude, if you want a job, you can totally just like go apply for jobs. Or really you should just like network, like meet people, because you have no idea how powerful that is. One thing leads to another, and before long, like, Jordan and I are like organizing this like, networking event in New York for like, I'm gonna bring all the transitioning Navy seals that I know. There's many or guys that have gotten out that don't have a job yet. And then like, Jordan's gonna bring all his business connections and we'd like have these events. And so we have like this inaugural event in New York City in like May of 2018 or whatever it was 2017, 2018, and I went to be a participant to like go and meet employers. But like, naturally I sort of emceed the event. Hey, guys, so we're get started. I got my suit, you know, I've just bought. Assumed that I had. That was my job. And so nobody, no employer talked to me. And I was like, what the hell? Like, I. I helped organize this. Nobody wants a job. But it came out later. They're like, oh, we just assumed this was your job, that this is what you do. That turned into a charity. Elite Meat. You didn't bring it up, but it's sort of in tandem with Operators Association. I and Jordan, we were a team for a couple of years and we put on like, I don't know, five or six of these, like pretty. Pretty decent sized, like Events, a couple hundred people, a bunch of veterans got jobs. It was my job. My job became fundraising. I'll be honest, that was my job. And it was like phone call fundraising. It was like micro donations. It was a slice of humble pie. Because it's like if you want to ask people for money every single day, people don't like that. Some people do, some people don't. And I did that for a while, but then towards the end of 2018, 2019, I was looking for other things to do. I think that I'm someone that does well when I have something new to chase a little bit. And one area that was just sort of naturally already happening is when you have been a Navy seal. It's probably true of like Green Berets of any sort. Of like select any, any group in the military that has a selection that's required to pass in order to join that group. There's all these people that want to be a Navy SEAL, that can read all they want about the selection course, what goes into it, what do I need to do to prepare for it. But there's nothing that really beats speaking to an actual Navy seal, especially like a relatively current one. And so it's just sort of a thing that when you get out of the military, if you have a social media account of any kind, or if you, if you are publicly available in any way, aspiring Navy Seals are gonna come, they're gonna come calling and they wanna ask you questions and they're super respectful. And so I was getting hit with a lot of questions. In virtue of being the CEO of Elite Meet, I was sort of a public facing Navy SEAL which had its own challenges. But, like, I had people hitting me up a lot about people as an aspiring Navy SEALS asking me questions, and I wanted to centralize it. And the guy that I was working with at the time, not Jordan, but this other guy, Zach, who was a Green Beret, he was helping me with Elite Meat. We were like, hey, like, why don't we create like a Patreon channel so it becomes sort of like if you want access to us on like a really personal level, like, it was very cheap, but it was like people need to show they're committed to it, like pay five bucks or whatever. But then we have like this sectioned off group of people that we can like train with, we can give them. I was making podcasts like four or five times a week for these guys. I was like pouring my heart and soul out because some of these guys went on to become Navy seals and it was like really cool. But that, that was. I only did Operators association for like eight or nine months before one. I felt like I had sort of given all the stuff I could give. And also my currency as a Navy SEAL was dwindling because things change quickly in the teams. The training changes. Like what I went through is probably comparable to what you do now, but it's not the same. And YouTube was really becoming my main focus. And so I handed everything to Zach and I said, go forth with Operators Association. And he still does, he's still running it now. And he's more of like the bring the guys to a location and like put them through literal physical training. And it's like really grueling and people love it. So that's sort of transitioned into that. But the logo for Operators association, it's actually me in Afghanistan. It's my silhouette of me in Afghanistan with a backpack on, like about to make entry into some building. And so that my legacy is I'm still on the logo, but I'm not involved with it anymore.
- [38:41]
Host
What would you have told a 19 year old John Allen coming to ask advice?
- [38:46]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, man, I was lost as a 19 year old. I. So I grew up in Quincy, Mass. Which is just south of Boston, Massachusetts. Very successful family. Like, maybe not like financially hugely successful, but definitely not hurting. You know, we were like firmly middle class and you know, my dad's a successful reporter and my mom's like, she's a, she's a part time freelance journalist, she's a librarian. But like really well spoken, really sweet people.
- [39:15]
Host
Even. Unfair advantage in your family with what you do?
- [39:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I do. I mean, I have multiple Pulitzer Prize winners in my family, which definitely helped. But I, I had the aptitude, I should say, to like be successful academically, which was a big thing in my household, like being, being an academic achiever. And I, I just didn't want to do that. I think I just wanted to like carve my own path. But like my form of rebellion was like just literally being a bad student, as if that would like get me somewhere. Why in a funny way, were you an asshole? No, actually not really.
- [39:52]
Host
Were teachers like John, you could do better than this?
- [39:54]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, constantly. Yeah, yeah. Like, like you're not applying yourself. You're literally just not, you're not doing anything. I was like skipping school by himself.
- [40:02]
Host
Yeah. Like, yep.
- [40:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I think also my, my sister Evan, my older sister, she sort of was similar. She skipped school constantly.
- [40:12]
Host
Like, surprise. Evan, skip school?
- [40:15]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, constantly. But Evan, I mean, truly, I would argue that it that she. She probably has near genius level intellect, Just pure intellect, pure computing brain power. Like, she. When she was like 12, she, without telling anyone, wrote a story about the Salem witch trials, but from the perspective of like, a daughter of someone who was being accused fiction. Like the daughter of like somebody being accused of being a witch. But it was like, from the perspective of like this child. And I think she's like, in bed and she's like the 1600s, you know, and it's. It was a short story competition. She enters it and she fucking wins.
- [40:53]
Host
That's a great approach to that story.
- [40:55]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, it was brilliant. And so she wins. And so she like, told us, like, hey, so I wrote on her pseudonym and I won this competition. I can't say it's me me, because it's 18 or older. Oh, yeah. And so she's 12 and she's like, won it. But Evan. So she would, like, skip school all the time. Like, all the time. And she just like crushed cigarettes and just was like a total, like, loser. But, like, she was so, so, so smart that, like, teachers couldn't. They like, couldn't fail her because she could come in and like, ace every test. She was better than everybody else. And so she sort of like, was pushed through high school. But, like, I didn't have that. I had like, that you could probably be a pretty good student, but you're. You're just sort of sk. Things school and like the class clown sort of guy. But I, I. My sort of like, for my. The moment that things really changed for me and I realized that my tendency towards sort of like, bad behavior was in part because I didn't really have a goal was when I was. I. I barely graduated high school in the sense that I probably could have failed on truancy alone. Like, I just didn't go. But I graduate and I didn't apply to college or I should say I haphazardly, like, half applied, left. Some of my applications were incomplete.
- [42:12]
Host
Your parents aren't on your ass.
- [42:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They were though. And that's the only reason they even begin. I didn't really. I didn't really. But my mom, who is, you know, she's a brilliant writer and she actually was the writer for our podcast for the first year. She wrote my essay and she sent it off as me to UMass Amherst. And so again, my grades are terrible. Like, it's. It's all bad. My mom writes my essay and we send it off and UMass got in touch with me and they're like, hey, you know, your grades are really not what we're looking for. But, my God, that essay was just brilliant. She wrote this essay about. It was really short, too, which is sort of the brilliance of the essay. It was about my best friend, this guy Ray. He lived down the street from me in Quincy, and we were, like, thick as thieves as kids, but, like, he came from a completely broken household, like, in all the worst ways, like drug abuse, like, you name it. It's like the worst stuff happens in that house. And he would come to our house, and it was like he was another son. He was a brother. He was beloved. He'd come on vacations with us, but he always had to go back home. And it was always bad for him. It was like every time you saw him over the years, it's like. Like he's got a new tattoo, and it's, like, clearly not professionally done. And he's, like, 14. He's got bruises on him. He's got track marks. You know, things are going bad and worse and worse for him. And, you know, he completely fell into the trap of drug addiction. He had a kid, very young.
- [43:40]
Host
Is this the guy who robbed your house and then.
- [43:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He robbed my house. Yeah, he robbed my house. And I remember we hadn't seen him in a long time. He let his friends in the side door, and he stole some stuff, some pretty valuable stuff. But, like, we knew it was him because there was nobody else that would have. Like, we had seen him that day. And he's so down on his luck. And by this point, he's not really in my life anymore. But he left me this voicemail after, like, this. It was, like, maybe the same day. And he wasn't saying that he did it, but he was, like, apologizing because he knew, like, I've broken the sacred trust that you've given me. But it's like, we. We know your life is broken, you know, but he ends it. He OD'd. And he died when I was 21. But, you know, before that, when the essay was written, it was about the last time we saw Ray, and it was actually the day he robbed our house. He came to the house and he was, like, lingering, and it was almost like he was looking at the house. Like, he just wanted to go inside and, like, be like it used to be. But, like, his buddies in the car was like, the music's blasting, you know, and it's like smoke coming out the windows. And it's like he knows he's. He's got to go with his friend, you know, he's got to go to the life that he doesn't want to be in anymore. And my mom described. And this is true. I didn't go out and say bye to him, and I didn't even tell my mom why. I just, like, stayed in the. I knew he was out there. I could see him through the window, but I didn't go. He wanted me to, like, wave to him and I just wouldn't do it. I didn't go to the door. I just sort of stayed in the house.
- [45:07]
Host
Were you angry at him?
- [45:08]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I had never expressed my feelings to anybody about it. It was like I had drifted so far from him and I wasn't mad. I just like. I knew, like, we are no longer compatible. Like, our lives have so diverged. And so my mom wrote the essay about him and it was just this contrast of like, what happens when your life is broken from the start. And it was just really good. And so I got into college largely on the strength of that essay. And I proceeded to shit it all away. I all just some stupid stuff. Like, I was in this. There are these dorms at UMass Amherst. There's all these sections of the campus. It's a huge undergraduate school. There's like 30,000 students or something. There's like five or six sections that are. That are the housing areas. And one of them is called Southwest. And Southwest is like the place to be if you want to, like, party.
- [46:00]
Host
We all had those quads.
- [46:02]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That's the one. And the reason for that was, you know, it sort of had that reputation for a bunch of reasons. But a big one is it has had these, I think, five like mini skyscrapers that were like 26 story sort of narrow buildings that were just packed with students. And the buildings were all on top of each other. And like, this is like western Massachusetts where there's like really nothing around. This is like, this is it. And it's. It had a reputation for. That's where you go to just be in Knucklehead, right? And I had to be in Southwest, you know, And I was. So I got into one of the towers and I. I had like 30 some odd violations in my first semester. These are stupid stuff. Like you doing my. My roommate Jake, who I didn't know he was awesome. Awesome dude. He's like, hey, bro, like, I'm gonna. I'm going home for the weekend. And I was gonna stay at the school. This is like. This is an example of things I would do. I'm gonna go home for the weekend, my. My mom's sending me a reading pillow, one of those big, like heavy pillows. You, you sit up against a big pillow. He's like, would you mind? Just like, because they can't leave it in the box. You got to get it and bring it up. And I was like, of course, of course I'll get your pillow. And so he goes home for the weekend and his pillow arrives and I bring it up and I shred it to pieces.
- [47:19]
Host
What's the matter with you?
- [47:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Through the fluff all over the hallway. But like there. It's a pillow. No reason.
- [47:26]
Host
No reason. No.
- [47:27]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so like, there's that one time we would go to the cafeteria. The amazing dining halls at UMass, these are huge dining halls. And they had like, you know, soda machines, like, you know, and there's like this mixer that like for orange juice. They don't put like tons of orange juice into it. It's like, there's like the syrup and the water that mixes and you make the juice. And I was like, dude, let's get some of that syrup. And we can like mix it with water up in our rooms and we can have juice. And I realized when I got up there to my. My little room up in the 26th floor that like, there's really no good way to do this. You need like, you know, industrial tools to mix the syrup. And so naturally I lopped the top off of.
- [48:10]
Host
Where'd you get the syrup?
- [48:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We just stole it.
- [48:12]
Host
She stole it.
- [48:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And we like, we just like, you know, dumped it out in the hallway and it was so sticky that they couldn't really clean it up. And they'd like professionally cleaned the carpets.
- [48:22]
Host
Jesus.
- [48:23]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We. I had like 20 some odd noise violations. Like, I. Weed was constantly coming out of the door, constantly getting rid up for that.
- [48:31]
Host
You wanted to get in trouble.
- [48:32]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I, I think there was an element of like, I just, I really just didn't care. And then it all came to a head when at the end of the semester, mind you, also, this whole time I'm telling my. My folks, things are going great, things are going real. I'm telling you what, I really taken a liking to college. Things are really good. Yeah, I'm getting pretty good grades. You know, I'm not, I'm not. I'm literally not going to class. Getting pretty good grades. Things are going pretty good. Like it's going horrible. They don't know that. And so at the end of the semester, our football team, who admittedly no one really cared about, like they're There. There are some guys that have gone pro. Like, it's a big deal, but, like, the school is just not really a football school. Like, yeah, it's like, yeah, cool. We have a football team. Well, we. We like, find out, because no one was paying attention to this team that they had made it to the finals. They were like, they were going to play Appalachia State for the final. Like, whoa. Right? We find this out.
- [49:27]
Host
Wow.
- [49:27]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I didn't even know. And they're not even home. They're, like, away. And they played the game on, like, the UMass TV because this is, like, pre streaming. This is 2006, 2007. And so I remember, like, for whatever reason, it was like, everyone, especially in Southwest, was like, great, we're just gonna watch this game. Like, let's go, you mess. I hope we win this game. And they lost fair and square. Good game. They lost. And for whatever reason, it was like, there was just this energy in Southwest. People were like, this doesn't sit right with me. We should have lost this game that I didn't care about until six hours ago.
- [50:05]
Host
Be a good idea.
- [50:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I look out the window of my little. These stupid little windows that barely open, and there was just. Just people starting to, like, mass up in the center of these five high rises, there's like this little pyramid you can sit on. It's like, you know, the size of a football field. And just people were just, like, coming out of their rooms and just sort of milling about. All the lights are on. They have these. These. They have riot lights at UMass because riots are a thing there. And the riot lights go on well before anyone's doing anything. But what it did is it was like, oh, like, are we rioting? Is this a riot? And, like, people like, what's going on here? And then I think it's a riot. This kid, he climbs up on the awning of our. Of our cafeteria that overlooked this. This area where we were amassing. And he yells, put this on YouTube. And he runs and leaps off the roof, expecting, I guess, people to be like, we'll catch you. No one caught him.
- [50:58]
Host
It's western mass. We're not catching you.
- [50:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Blasts him to the ground, clearly breaks one of his legs, and the crowd just goes. And it was madness. It literally was like that. Kicked off, like a storm of just chaos. People are picking up rocks, throwing them through windows. I'm completely sober, completely sober again, only recently invested in this game that I didn't even know was a thing. And I was fully committed to that riot oh, was I a part of that riot? And, like, the riot police show up. Like, the mounted riot police. The hundreds of vandalized properties. Well, I could have.
- [51:35]
Host
Statute of limits expired.
- [51:37]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, yeah. Fired rocks all over the place. Just complete debauchery. Sober, like, a hundred percent sober.
- [51:44]
Host
So the cops come. Are they in hats and bats?
- [51:47]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
So bad. And they brought their rubber pellets.
- [51:49]
Host
Oh, no.
- [51:49]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And very quickly, the crowd. Once the riot police showed up, like, the crowd sort of began to dwindle. And there was a hardcore group of like, maybe 50 people, and I was one of them. I had taken my shirt off and wrapped it around my head because of the CS gas in the air. And I had been shot, like, by the pelican so many times. And, like, I just stayed out there, like, I couldn't go in. I was, like, so enamored with, like, evading the police, like, running all over the place. And, like, everybody else is going in. I was just still firing rocks all over the place and just staying out. And I finally, like, I go in my room. I, like, I could tell if I stayed out any longer. I'm getting arrested. And I go in my dorm. I run up to my room and I. I'm like, man, that was fucking awesome. And I. My pockets fired up. Oh, dude, I was stoked.
- [52:33]
Host
Like, what was I thinking?
- [52:34]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, this was great. And then my pockets. I had pellets in my pockets because I've been shot so many times by these rubber bullets that just by probability alone, they had peppered the top of my pocket and, like, landed in my pockets. I have, like, pellets in my pocket.
- [52:49]
Host
Welts on your skinny bear chest.
- [52:50]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, dude. All over me, covered in welts. And I'm just like, awesome. Go to bed. No problem. Next day, I wake up, and it's like, there's a haze over the campus. Like, just fog had rolled in, and, like, it looked like just a war zone. There's broken glass everywhere. And I'm like, damn. And like, that day, we started to hear, like, hey, they have this website, the UMass Police. They were running a video and pictures of everybody out there, and there's this anonymous page where it's just pictures of the riot. And anybody can identify anybody in these pictures. And, like, that day. Day, like, 12 hours later, people were being escorted off the campus and expelled. Yep, I was fucking hated on my floor. And I immediately found you were already hated. Oh, already.
- [53:34]
Host
Because of the sound.
- [53:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
So many noise violations. People like, who the fuck is this freshman idiot who's just causing Problems, people looking for you.
- [53:40]
Host
Like, I bet John was in there.
- [53:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I found, I think it was like two pictures that were like, that's me. And so amazingly, no one named me, at least not yet. But it was right at the end of the semester and grades come out and I had a 1.016, you know, a little lower than my folks expected. And I also, due to the number of violations, they had this rule that even if your violations are minor, if you, I think it's like 20 in a semester, you are banned from being in the dorms. You can still attend the school, but you must live off campus. And so all at once my parents were told, well, your son has a 1.016 GPA, so he's been put on academic probation, if he can even continue here. And he must live off campus. Which is like, imagine making the decision to send your kid off campus who's just been doing all this. And so my dad comes up to meet with the dean, thinking he's going to like talk it through with him and it's going to be fine. And he realizes pretty quickly that the dean's like, no, you're going to live off campus and you're going to get your grades up or you're going to leave the school. And so we have this like really stark meeting. And my dad's dad's like furious.
- [54:43]
Host
Does your dad know how hard it is to get thrown off at Amherst? You have to beg to get off.
- [54:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He did say, he's like, this is unbelievable.
- [54:49]
Host
Yeah.
- [54:50]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I, we left and we're sitting on this bench and I'm like, fuck. Like now I realize this is pretty bad. And I'm like, dad, also, you see all this damage here. There's a pretty big riot here. And I explained that like I'm in these pictures, it's a matter of time before I get named and expelled. And he's like, you have to withdraw from school and come home. And so amazingly, I withdraw to avoid expulsion, basically. And I go home and I'm literally, I move into my mom's basement. My parents were split. I moved my mom's basement. And I actually remember. And this is the change that happened. The 19 year old me, I'm in my mom's basement and I was so fucking mad at my parents.
- [55:35]
Host
At your parents? Yeah.
- [55:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Like, how dare you. I have my friends at school. You took this from me. But quickly. I don't know what it was. There wasn't like a specific moment, but like it, it just set in like dude, no one fucking cares about you. Like, you're a dude who had every opportunity. This is entirely architected by you. And my mom, to her credit, was just ruthless. When I came home, I come home. There's zero sympathy. She's a very sweet woman. She's like a librarian. She's like, like, you're gonna pay rent and if you don't, you can leave. If you want to go to college, great, you can figure that out. All on you. You wanna be an adult, you wanna fuck around, like, go for it. You can stay.
- [56:15]
Host
I had conversation with my mom.
- [56:16]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Brutal.
- [56:16]
Host
Brutal. She kept a note card of all the money I owed her.
- [56:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh my God. We had a whiteboard. Yep. Down to how much toothpaste I used. But it was really important for me and it cleaned my act up real quick. And I set my sights on first. I'm gonna go to school locally, get my grades up. And I ultimately went back to UMass Amherst and I did graduate. But it also. So as I began reshaping my life, getting a job, getting good grades, being diligent, getting high and playing skate and ranking in the world, doing all those things, it's when I fell in love with the idea of being a seal. In part because it was like, it's this one place that I had found where truly just about anyone can try out. You need to be an American citizen. There's some medical requirements, but for the most part it's like if you're in decent enough shape, you're a citizen, you can go try out. You know, even now, like women can do it too, but like only a handful of people get through. And I met some seals that were like, a lot of guys that become seals often have call it resumes that look like mine where it's like you everything up.
- [57:20]
Host
Hold on, is this art camp day? Is this that you went to art camp and talked to the guys in the shed?
- [57:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, dude, that is the art camp.
- [57:26]
Host
Tell us what happened. You said there was some CIA guys.
- [57:28]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, yeah, dude.
- [57:28]
Host
What was going on?
- [57:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That so, so yeah, actually. So I, I, I got my grades up, up with school so I could, I kind of got back on my mom's good terms.
- [57:36]
Host
I stopped squinting at you a little
- [57:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
bit because it was like I, I got a job. I was, I was scanning IDs at the YMCA, at the gym, at like the 5am Crew. I didn't have a car, so I would get up at like 3 and I would bike on my little 10 speed to the YMCA 3 miles away. I looked at it as like, I looked at it as like, I want this to suck for myself. I want to like earn this. And so I'm biking at 3 in the morning and I do my little scanner job. And then after my like three hours of work, I would hop in the train, go to UMass Boston, which was very easy to get into at the time. And I, I was getting my act together, right? And so after three semesters of good behavior, of paying rent, of being like a high functioning kid, I began thinking about what I was going to do after college. Because now it's like, okay, I can probably graduate. I'm going to graduate from college right now.
- [58:27]
Host
Hold on. When you, when you being a good kid, was it going against your grain or were you really turning it around inside your brain?
- [58:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, I felt good about it because
- [58:35]
Host
sometimes you have to act the part before it sticks.
- [58:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was embarrassed, I think, and I don't even know. I don't know. It was. I came home and I was mad from being brought home from UMass Amherst. But then something quickly clicked that like this was my fault. And I suddenly sort of saw myself for the first time as like a really ignorant, entitled little brat who had gotten away with acting like an idiot for a long time. And like literally my mother wrote my essay that got me into that school and my parents paid for it. Like, what are you doing? It was like embarrassing. And so I think I wanted to not be a fuck up anymore, like genuinely. And so as I'm turning my act around, not even like within like of several months, I'm like back on track. I'm like training, like, like I'm working out, I'm like, I'm like doing stuff that like shows I'm being responsible.
- [59:24]
Host
And you're studying for CPU deals at this point, right?
- [59:27]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Not really. I was. Not really. I. And that's, that's. It sort of all happened at once. I'm like maybe a sophomore, slash maybe as a junior at this point. But it was like, no, I was a sophomore in college. I'm still at UMass Boston, so I'm still living at home, but I'm like, okay, like I've sort of turned my act around a little bit. I, I was thinking about what was next, you know, Like, I knew I would graduate. I was studying philosophy really, with not a clear shot for what I would do. I just loved philosophy. I love thought experiments. And I didn't really have a plan, but a lot of my buddies, when I graduated high school, joined the Marines and they went off to Iraq and Afghanistan. And you know, I just, I looked at that as incredibly honorable. Not so much literally what they did, but just in a time of war. To volunteer is a big move, you know, one, it doesn't matter what you think about it, it's a big move. And I, I always sort of, I would find myself wishing that that had been what I did in part because of my fuck up and all that. And so service was on my mind. I wanted to serve. I was thinking about it and I remember talking to my mom, who at this point she softened the way she treats me. She's back to being very, very gentle. Jesse the librarian. And I was like, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, the military, like after, after college. I don't know how or what exactly, but I'm thinking about it. And she's like, oh, you should talk to. They're, they're sort of family friends. More specifically, my mom's best friend is this woman, Susan. And Susan is like a, she's a close family friend. I've known her for years and I knew she had brothers who are military. I didn't really know what they did. And my mom's like, oh yeah, you should go talk. And I'm like, oh yeah. I was like, what do they do? What do they do in the military?
- [61:10]
Host
You didn't absorb at this point that seals don't really talk too much about what they do. That didn't stick yet.
- [61:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
She goes, actually, you know what? They're retiring. They were Navy SEALs. And I'm like, what? The dudes I've like seen at barbecues that are just like, hey, what's going on guys? Just like not nonchalant. It, like it didn't compute. And it was like so amazing. And I'm like, oh my. I've, I've talked to them. I, I like know them. But now it's, I've seen them all over again. And my mom's like, actually, you know, John, they were a part of Seal Team 6.
- [61:40]
Host
They were on 6.
- [61:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They were on 6 when 6 was like doing everything like they were, they were like on Team Six. And I don't want to totally give up who it is, but like, basically they were like leading stuff on Team Six when the war on terror began. So like, okay, Special operations are going to go do some of the gnarliest combat that's ever happened. They're the ones that are like leading it and therefore it like very hardcore stuff. And so I began like looking at what it took to be a Navy seal. And it's like, so cool. They're just. Just cool. Had really no sense of what it would really entail. He calls me. He's like, you're gonna come up to. To the camp up New Hampshire military camp or compound? No, like, and I'm like, okay, all right, I will. And this is the day of. This is the day's like, pre gps. It's like map quest directions. And so I. I tell my mom, like, I guess I'm going to, like, some camp. And she's like, oh, oh, it's Susan. Susan's art camp. I'm like, what? They're at the art camp. He made it seem like this was not an art camp. This is, like, hardcore. I don't know what he's doing. He talked about shooting guns and stuff. Like, I'm pretty sure this is not art camp. And. And she's like, no, no, it's. It's definitely her art game. I'm like, this is weird. So I put it in MapQuest to go to the. The camp out in New Hampshire. And I'm driving there, following these directions, and it's like, bringing me out into the sticks. And then I. I get to the camp, and it looks like it's a beautiful kids camp. It's a sunny day. There's literally kids running around, like, playing with Bubbles. And there's like, it's a music camp and it's beau beautiful.
- [63:15]
Host
Oh, it's nice.
- [63:15]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I go in there and I'm like, I. I find Susan, who show up in fatigues. What did you do? I was like, in just gym clothes. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I just see this, like, gravel road that, like, goes up and over a hill off into the forest. Like, I don't even know what's up there. And I'm like, okay. And so I drive my car around and I'm just like, going up this rise and like, the road is just, like, going on and on. It's like, deeper into the forest. And it eventually comes to this clearing and there's this, like, ramshackle plywood hut that's just sitting, like, conspicuously in the middle of this clearing. And nobody would look at that and think a professional built it. It's like children built this hut. But it's huge. It's like this pretty big space. And I park my car and, like, I get out and I don't. I don't even know what we're doing here. I've been told to come to the camp. That's it. And immediately when I get out of the car, I hear the sound of like, like men bullshitting with each other in, in the hut. These are not like teenagers. These are not. These are men that are bullshitting. They're, they're, they're laughing. They're. It's, it's a lot of them. And I'm like, like, I have to go in there. Like, I'm so intimidated. And so I'm like, all right, you got to go. Like, I've driven out here. You got to go in. And so I hear him talking.
- [64:28]
Host
This is the first test right here.
- [64:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
In a way, I kind of felt like that's what it was. And so I walk over, and it's gravel. Every step is so loud. There's no soundproofing here.
- [64:38]
Host
The seals heard you?
- [64:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, dude, of course they knew this was happening. And I walk over and I get to the door, which had these crappy hinges on it and you can't see through it. And I was outside the door, and they just go silent inside. Slowly open the hut. It's like. And there's no furniture inside. It's just like a vacant space with all these upturned buckets. Buckets that like 10 or 12 dudes who were like, some of the most physically intimidating people I've ever seen. Who, by the way, a lot of them were active duty team six guys that are just sitting on these buckets. They're all like chewing tobacco. And they all turn and look at me. And one of them goes, who the are you? That's perfect. And I was like, oh, hi, I'm Jonathan. I'm. I'm Jesse's son. And the day's like, we know who the you are. Like, get in here. And then they were like, really cool. But dude, they, they go up to this camp. It's. It's sort of a not well kept secret. But like, they'll bring guys up there even though they're retired, and they'll like, take guys through some shooting training. But it's sort of like crazy shit they do because it's not really sanctioned. They just go out there, but they'll bring guys that are like, like active duty team six guys. They go out and train out there. And so I had the chance to like, chat with these guys. Some of them are about to go, like, deploy to parts of the world that like, no one knows we're in. And. And on the one hand, it was like, holy shit. This is like a different species. I'M not around normal people right now. Like, it was just. It's hard to even put into words how impressed I was with these people. But the other part of it, that. It was like, when I had my moment of. I now know I can't not at least try. I had that moment when I sat down with this guy who's a seal. He's an older seal. He was in Beirut when it was bombed. The famous Marine barracks bombing. He was out there.
- [66:23]
Host
So he's.
- [66:23]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's written a couple of books, and he's the guy that told me. He's like, you know, bud's buds. It sucks. You know, buds at basic underwater demolition, SEAL training. It's like SEAL boot camp. It's. It's brutal. You know, it's all those things. But he's like, I'm telling you, like, it's amazing. Like, he described it as the best time you never want to have again. And he's like, the people that make it, it isn't that they're. They're battling.
- [66:48]
Host
Oh, boy.
- [66:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Should I quit today or not? Because you can quit at any time, you know? Know, he's like, the people that really want to go, a lot of times, they. They don't really have an alternative. It's sort of like they fucked their lives up or they. They had opportunities they squandered or whatever it is, but they have something to prove, you know? And he's like, a lot of the people that make it, they refer to it as a calling that it's not. It's not like, today I've decided to be a seal, and I hope I don't quit when I'm in training. It's like, no, I have to go try.
- [67:15]
Host
I have to do it.
- [67:15]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I have to see if I stack up against this. And as soon as it was put to me that way, I realized that, like, this is, like, the most incredible thing I've ever, like, been around. And I then went out and, like, shot AK47s with them. And, like, they're telling me their stories about buds and, like, deployment, and it's just so surreal. And I came back from that trip, and it was like, 100%, I'm gonna go become an AV seal. Or more specifically, I wasn't that sure of it. It was more like, I. For sure I'm gonna try, and it's gonna be, if I don't make it, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with, like, didn't make the cut, but I'm not gonna go and see what happens.
- [67:53]
Host
You knew you were gonna make it though. You just, you feel like you're gonna make it. I could do this.
- [67:56]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I think that's true. And I would even say like when I went out to Coronado for training and this is not, this is pretty much universal for the guys that make it, I never had a moment where I was like, oh boy, am I gonna quit today. I didn't. Did I have moments of pathetic weakness of just embarrassing failure? Of course, like there are moments of like horrible failure. Like I have like totally humiliating moments in my training. But I never ever, ever was like, I might quit better talk myself out of it. Never came close. Never. And I, there are moments in BUDS that are so miserable. Like there we would do these like log carries where you're. And it sounds so like oh, it's just a heavy log, right? No, no, you've, you're barely sleeping, you're in the freezing ocean like all the time. And then you would do, I think what, what do we call them? The elephant walk or something where you and your, your, your swear what they call your boat crew who are similarly sized people so long as the class is big enough to afford you that you hold this telephone pole that's not even that heavy. It's a heavy pole, but it's not as heavy as a true telephone pole. But you hold it in your front like this. You can't hold it up like this. You literally can't hold it down here because you'll drop it. And you're walking on really soft sand in the heat and you're all walking in line and you're just walking for a mile this way and then you go up and down the berm a few times. Then a mile back you are imagine holding any weight with your biceps just basically non stop. It becomes if you haven't done this, the pain you feel in your biceps if you just hold it long enough is excruciating. And there are instructors that walk with you for each of these logs that are just like waiting because it's considered at times they'll consider it quitting if you drop the log and they're like, you bitched out of this. It's called a non verbal dor drop. You quit. See ya. And so you basically have to suffer constantly. It's like this out of body level of suffering, but you do it like all the time in buds and you slowly come to realize that it's always horrible. But you can do it if you have like the constitution and the guys that stuck around the most random group of guys. It was like a guy who had never swam before. He literally hadn't swam. And he's like, yeah, I'm trying out for buds, dude. This is a huge swimming component. Yeah, we'll figure it out. And he did. We had a guy who, he went to boot camp. This guy's incredible by the way. He, he walked on to the Indiana's football team like as like a 23 year old or something. Like it was unheard of after the teams he went to boot camp. Didn't know what a Navy SEAL was. In today's age this is, doesn't happen, doesn't know what a SEAL was. But they do offer to all the people who are in naval boot camp, hey, if anybody wants to go take a physical screening test for, for the SEAL teams, you're welcome to do it today because the BUDS guys are doing that. You can go do it. Nobody does it. He was like, all right, I'll go do that. Has no idea what he's getting himself into. Passes the PST, goes to buds, never fails a single test. Becomes a Navy SEAL. And he's amazing. I think he went to Dev Crew Team 6 for a while. I don't even know if he did. He gets out, he's like, he's, he's turned into like the Incredible Hulk too. He put on so much muscle, all natural. He's huge. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to go play football. Never played football in his life. Walks on to the Indiana team.
- [71:17]
Host
But it's just like you said, out of body. That's interesting. I think a lot of the guys who make it learn disassociation, almost like meditation. Like that's my body. I'm not really there. I just let it happen.
- [71:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Definitely.
- [71:30]
Host
Are there guys who just sail through buds?
- [71:32]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, and there's actually, there's a name for it. It's first time every time. Other guys that like never fail a test and it's a real thing. Like there's a buddy of mine, he got this thing called BGE or vge. It's a, it's a stomach virus and he got it right at the end. So in SEAL training in buds, it's, it's six months long and like the really brutal physical part of it is like the first two months, it's called first phase and it's just like, it's like the log carries, it's like a million push ups and that kind of thing. But Hell week is a component of that and it's, it's a week of really no sleep and constant training. It's. It's five and a half days. You sleep for a total of four hours, broken up into naps. And I can tell you there isn't anybody who wants to take those naps. They're. They're the worst thing. They're the worst part of Hell Week in some ways. So you basically, you're awake, training non stop. You're in the ocean. It's miserable. So it's going to be hard no matter what. He got vge, bg, whatever. The stomach virus. Montezuma's revenge is what it's colloquially known as. Oh no, you're vomiting and you're pooping the whole time. And he got it like the week of leading into Hell Week. So the last few days, a brutal first phase before like. And next week is Hell Week. He can't keep a meal down. He's with. We're all withering away because we would finish up the day at like 10:00 clock or 11:00 clock and we'd eat like gallons of ice cream and Cheez Its and Oreo. What? Nothing was enough.
- [72:56]
Host
You're.
- [72:56]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You're burning so many calories. The instructors were like, just eat, eat constantly.
- [73:01]
Host
Right?
- [73:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And it wasn't enough. You're still losing all this weight. He couldn't keep anything down. Never complained. Not once goes into Hell Week. He's like dying during Hell Week. He's. He'd be running with the boat on your head, as we do throughout the whole time. And he's like vomiting, he's like pooping himself the whole time. And Hell Week you're up against how long it is is the really. That's the hard part of it. It's like any, the closest thing I can think of is like if you've ever gone for a run, just any run that is uncomfortable for you to do, it doesn't even matter what it is. Maybe a few, it's a mile, maybe it's 10 miles, whatever. But some distance where you start to think, man, this is gonna take wild. And every second sucks. So Hell Week is sort of that feeling and it never really goes away. And it's so, so long and it's so physically demanding that like every second really feels like an eternity. And then what makes it even worse is invariably you sort of lose your mind. You start to hallucinate really badly. At about like the 72 hour mark you start to hallucinate. But like you're acutely aware of how bad it is and how slow it is, but you're not able to form coherent thoughts. And so everybody's struggling and is like dying from BG and like, he's being talked to by the medics. Because if you don't quit, like, they really won't pull you out of training. They will let you keep going pretty much to the brink of death if you want to keep going. Because I mean, this, we're training for the big leagues, you know, and this dude just like, never quit, never complained, had probably the worst week of anyone's life. And then afterwards, like, he just never talked about it, just went, never failed to test. It's like there are people that just have this capacity to just do things that are just unbelievable. And you see it a lot in SEAL training. I was not like that. I was definitely more of the complaining type of. More of like the bitching type. But I think that it's funny, my nickname was Shakespeare at some point in training because I just was always telling stories. And I think that one of the things that I brought to the table, like there was this area on the BUDS compound that was sort of sacred, that even the instructors that gave you this space, it was known as the pit. And all it is, is like this little space behind the first phase barracks where all the students who are in first phase go. And the fence that sort of is up against the back end of the beach. So it's like this literally three or four foot section of space that runs like, you know, 100 yards or whatever. And it's, it's. You're in sight of the instructors, but you're sort of obscured by a fence in the barracks. And the instructors even tell you, like, when you're in there, we'll leave you alone. And when we're in there and it's like for five minutes at a stretch or whatever, I would always just like be telling stories, like bullshitting and like around people. And honestly, like, what you find in, in shared suffering is like everyone sort of has a role to play to like, keep the vibe from getting overtly negative. And I think one of the things that I found is like, I was able to just tell people stories, and that definitely was the thing that people were drew to. They, they were drawn to me because it was a distraction, you know, but other guys, like, the ability to suffer well was incredible by some of these guys.
- [76:20]
Host
Let's take a quick break because that's a good segue. Come back and talk shop, talk stories.
- [76:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Let's do it back In a minute. Got the flannel.
- [76:28]
Host
Let's go. You like it?
- [76:31]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's a good look, dude. Is it? Yeah, I think it's a pretty good look. I. I myself.
- [76:35]
Host
Are you sick?
- [76:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I fancy that.
- [76:36]
Host
Are you sick of it?
- [76:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
A little bit. Sort of like now, the thing that is so synonymous with what I do, that it's sort of like, all right, but, like, when I'm not Mr. Ballin, I'm wearing nothing. Like this. No, of course not.
- [76:52]
Host
No. Yeah. Dude, this is from Reddit, from the fans. Love it.
- [76:57]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Let's hear it.
- [76:59]
Host
The old format was better. He's phoning it in. Quality. Fell off. Sellout with the big bucks. Those are about me and Veritasium and Linus, tech tips and Mr. Ballin and everybody.
- [77:16]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, wow.
- [77:17]
Host
Same. Same across the board. You thought I was talking about you.
- [77:19]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I did, and I fully assumed that was about me.
- [77:23]
Host
No, it still gets to me a little bit. Does it get to you?
- [77:26]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It does. And you know what? I think that part of the reason that gets to me is I know there's some element of truth to it, and it doesn't mean that, oh, boy, I'm now covering it. It's more like. There is here. Here's the way I view it. You go viral or whatever, you have your spark on the Internet, let's say what. What I think people don't necessarily know, although it's sort of logical, is that there's really kind of like, two outcomes. You go viral and. And you either find a way to sustain, replicate, whatever, do it again, make a name for yourself, whatever, or you don't. It fades off. That's sort of it. It's sort of binary. You don't hear about the people that faded off. And I can tell you just from. Just. I'm not going to say who they are because it's totally throwing shade. But, like, when I went viral on TikTok, when there was no strange, dark, mysterious, it was like I had a video that, in think how many videos probably went viral today that in a week no one will remember. Like, I had my moment. There were these other creators that went viral at, like, the same time, just by happenstance, completely unrelated to me. But there was this cool, like, almost like, this is my graduating class sort of feel to it that, like, immediately I was in touch on TikTok with, like, all these other creators that were sort of comparable in speed of growth and, like, sort of their accounts, whatever. And a big part of it is we just would swap, drop anything we knew because it helped both of us. And all of them, all of them just completely fell off. Not like, oh, you fell off. I don't mean it that way. I mean, there was no sustainability long term. There was too much. Like they had a thing that worked once and they just freaking drove it into the ground. And I get it, like in some ways, like you could make the case. That's exactly what I have done. I have a thing, the shtick that I do. But what people don't know or what people don't, let's say, appreciate on the audience side is like, you can't. This can't be a long term thing unless you're willing and able to make changes to make it a business on some level. It's. It's a total pipe dream to think that it isn't that it's possible to topic, find, research, write, shoot, edit non stop. Because by the way, I remember I was making five videos a week.
- [80:01]
Host
I remember that. I was like, how does this guy do it?
- [80:03]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, it was horrible.
- [80:04]
Host
It was horrible. Sounds horrible.
- [80:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I took a week off when I reached a point.
- [80:09]
Host
You didn't panic taking a week off?
- [80:10]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, no. It was like. It was a true, the purest form of writer's block. I could even possibly imagine us trying to write this story about these two, these two brothers in Maryland who were hoarders. And basically the story is that ultimately one of them dies amongst the mess and goes unnoticed by the other. And they're Collier Brothers. The Collier Brothers. Collier Brothers.
- [80:35]
Host
You can tell it if you want.
- [80:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You know, I don't know the details that well and I never actually, I think I did tell it eventually. But like, basically it's these two brothers and they're total hoarders. And, and it's just this grotesque story about hoarding and death.
- [80:46]
Host
Death. They're a maze of newspapers.
- [80:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yes. And so I could not come up with like, how to tell the story. I couldn't do it. I don't even. It was like, what is happening? I have the research, I've done the research, I'm ready to do. I couldn't do it. And I remember I started at like 9 or 10 in the morning to like start the process of this 20 some odd hour process to make this video. And it was like the sun was starting to go down that night and I hadn't done anything. It's the first time in months I've ever missed this much time. And I was like, holy shit, I can't do this. And I went out and talked to Amanda My wife. And I'm like, dude, I can't write this episode. And she's like, dude, take a day off. And so I took a day, which turned into a full week of time off, which again, I have been creating effectively non stop for like five, six months. And it's taken a big toll on me to a week off. It isn't that I was met with a deluge of negativity, not at all. But this is the part that I'm coming back to. This whole idea that, like, people don't necessarily see this. The audience knows that, like, you have your platform because the audience is watching. They have the power to give you the platform or take it away
- [82:07]
Host
if
- [82:07]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
you don't give them. And I'm saying they not specific individuals, but as a collective, if you're not giving them what they want, they will leave you. It is not a friendship. It's not like, oh, this is my family member. It is a commodity that they want and you're giving it to them.
- [82:26]
Host
It's so easy for them to just find someone else and it's immediately available right there.
- [82:31]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I remember coming back from that week and seeing for the first time comments about me not caring.
- [82:38]
Host
Wow.
- [82:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And it's like, you know, I get it. I can sort of see like off the cuff and there's at this point, you know, millions of people. I get it. Like there's going to be people that have their opinions, but it like really hurt, you know, and you're not supposed. I'm like, I'm. I'm like an adult. I have kids. Like, I'm an adult. As I came into this, I was a Navy seal. Like, I should be able to handle this stuff, but it was really hard and it always stuck with me from that point forward that I love. I've met so many amazing fans. I know you probably have too. Like, there are some really incredible people out there that do comprise in some ways the majority of the audience.
- [83:13]
Host
Sure.
- [83:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But make no mistake, if you're the one that is sort of the key man, if you will, for the show, you're on a hamster wheel that you must maintain. If you don't, the audience just goes away. That it's not the same with traditional media. Not that I've ever had traditional media experience, but in today's day and age with digital media, if you want a career in this space, you better find a way to do this over and over and over and over and never fucking stop, ever, or else it goes away. And once you reach a Certain scale. When you have like a staff and you have expectations and you have people that depend on you and you're like a thing now, as the creator, like, you need to make decisions that are designed to keep this thing going. And sometimes what that means is I may need to bring in other people to help me do this because I can't fucking do this non stop for the rest of the next ten years or something. And so when you see creators, me, you, you named a few other people. Part of the reason they're still relevant is they've made decisions that may degrade in terms of quality compared to the first episode they ever did. And also people have a lot of emotion attached to those first few episodes. They were there with you, you know, there.
- [84:30]
Host
They don't want to see it change,
- [84:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
they don't want to see a change. And even if the changes are good, the change itself represents what's going on here. But like, you don't get really much sympathy, is no wrong word. You don't get much slack if you start altering what you do at the same time that you've sort of perceived as growing and being successful. And so the sellout thing, I think that, that it doesn't like, hurt, but it's just purely a misunderstanding of how this really works. I could have just as easily become obscure by not making changes and running myself into the ground and stopping making content. And then guess what? There wouldn't be any commentary about Mr. Ballin because Mr. Ballin wouldn't exist. It would be, oh, that was that thing that happened that one time for like a month on TikTok a while ago. It wouldn't matter to you. You, it's the fact that you're still hearing about the y files and AJ and John and the Mr. Is because they've done something that allows them to maintain a sort of near impossible to maintain thing, which is a never ending supply of content. Because that's your career. It exists so long as you make content. I don't know what happens when you stop, but I'm pretty sure your career as a content creator changes pretty dramatically.
- [85:42]
Host
It does. People tell me, you know, you're a slave to the algorithm, them. And I tell them, yeah, that's, that's how we make our livelihoods here. And if you take too much time off, you will be punished. The audience will punish you. The algorithm punish you. Now new things show up in your feed. Sometimes I don't even see my own episodes on my feed.
- [86:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Same.
- [86:01]
Host
Oh, because I didn't post last Week. Because why I'm not getting impressions.
- [86:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Same.
- [86:06]
Host
So I went through phases of drinking too much, not sleeping, showering in the office.
- [86:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's like, it's not glamorous, you know, it's so. Man, is that true? I. Dude, I. In 2023, I had like the most banner year on paper that you could have. Like, even now, looking back, it's astounding. I. I'd post a YouTube video and it's like, it a dillion views.
- [86:38]
Host
I remember those.
- [86:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I.
- [86:39]
Host
A million in a day, dude.
- [86:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It was like, oh, whatever. I. I had the podcast that we started and we had the fastest. From conception of podcast or inception of podcast to signing of a. Of a mega deal. We did it the fastest against anybody else. At that deal size. It was like nine months from. From we're going to do a podcast. Hey, we'll sign you to a fucking enorm for three years.
- [87:09]
Host
Was that the Amazon deal? So only nine months to get that?
- [87:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Like, it was like. I want to say it was 10 months. 10 months. And we're talking like tens of millions of dollars. It was like, you know, it was like $62 million. $62 million. That's what it was. In fact, I don't even know why that's so secret, because my. The deal was serious public too, right? So it's $62 million. And I says in 2023, my YouTube channel, which by the way, wasn't even licensed, so I licensed my podcast and we were crushing. It was doing crazy, crazy downloads. But we. For 62 million for the podcast, and I have a YouTube channel that's doing like $10 million a year. And so in 23, the reason I say all that, I am making so much money that I literally didn't even know what to do. It wasn't like, I'm gonna go buy a bunch of shit. It was like, I don't even know who to talk to. Even my financial people, I don't even know if they know what to do. Like, there's money coming in that's so high. I'm uncomfortable even talking about it.
- [88:17]
Host
So you don't have a support structure for this? There's a point where my mom is my financial advisor until she's like, I don't understand anymore. It's not. It's. It's fun, but it's also very stressful.
- [88:27]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But at the end of 23, I was, if not a alcoholic by some sort of definition, I was close because I The. Oh my God. It's like I've Become sort of financially successful. And right away there were like, these really difficult exploitations that began happening in my life. I actually, you know, I began doing a renovation. I was telling you about this before, you know, and. And the contractor basically took a ton of money for me. A ton of money. Like half a million dollars from me. And I was stupid enough to give it, but it was like totally being gaslit into giving money. And it's like they knew that I had money, it was a thing. And they're like taking the money and not doing the renovations and just extorting me for more money because they've gutted my house already. And, like, then I had people that were coming in to work for me that are not with me now. So this is nobody now. But, like, that were just hugely exploitative. And so at the end of 23, I am like, in the eyes of being. In terms of being a creator, I got it all. I got fucking everything you could ever ask for. And I would work myself to death. And then at whatever time I was done working, I would just drink. I just drink, dude. And it wasn't even for fun, and it wasn't even as an outlet. It was almost habitual. It was just fucking drinking.
- [89:56]
Host
Take it, take it away. I don't want to think about it. It's the only way to sleep.
- [90:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And then. And so by the end of 23, I was so, like, right now I'm like, like in the 170s. I weigh about 170. And I'm like, really on top of my, like, health. And I'm sober, but I was like. I remember looking at the scale and it was like 199. And I'm like, like not exercising at all. This is. There's no part of this that is like good body comp. I'm like out of shape. And I had this ponytail. I had grown my hair out, like, really bad. And I don't even know why I was doing it. It was sort of like this stick that began when Mr. Ballin happened. I wasn't really cutting my hair and I just never did it. And I had this, like, ponytail and I'm like, I remember.
- [90:37]
Host
I remember the long hair.
- [90:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was like, just bloated looking. And if you look, it's. If you look at the videos from 2023 and like, early, early 23, late 22, a lot of the videos, I'm hungover.
- [90:49]
Host
A lot of the videos. And you can totally tell it. I mean, you can.
- [90:52]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Dude. Oh, dude, I'm red faced.
- [90:54]
Host
I have A whole year where it's like, you don't even see the white in my eyes is skinny. Oh.
- [90:58]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I.
- [90:59]
Host
So you don't feel like a megastar at this point?
- [91:02]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, no, not at all. And, like, I think that I also realized that it's, like, a permanent shift in terms of, like, how you're viewed by, like, people around you, like, who really know you. Because now I think that I offered a lot to the world before this, but now there's, like, a financial opportunity. There's more than that. There's. There's like, an opportunity for people that you represent that they can't really get elsewhere. And I was sort of realizing that, like, I had. I had very close friends that were, like, from the teams that, like, trying to, like, get money out of me. And it's like, like, what the fuck? It's like my circle just shrunk. And I was like, so physically just, like, I felt so gross about myself, and I'm, like, just drinking all the time. And then I shifted from, well, here I'm gonna stop boozing as much, and I'm gonna just, like, eat edible marijuana, which is like, oh, no big deal. And it got to the point where, dude, I was. I don't know if you're familiar with dosing, but I. I was. I was eating, like, 200 milligrams of THC a night.
- [92:05]
Host
I used to run a weed company.
- [92:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Okay, there we go.
- [92:07]
Host
Perfect.
- [92:08]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
200 milligrams, which, for some people, that's a ton. That's a lot. And this. I worked my way up, but I. It wasn't enjoyable. I. I would take it, and then I would, like, green out, and I would grip the sheets. I would lay in my bed and grip the sheets as I would have these insane heart palpitations. And I couldn't sleep. Every night I would do it, and it only brought me discomfort and pain.
- [92:28]
Host
Yep.
- [92:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But I couldn't stop or I'd be drinking too much. And so it's like I fell into the trap, or whatever you want to call it, of, like, huge success in sort of, like, a very specific way, like, money and, like, he's got, like, millions of followers, but, like, my life, my actual life is sort of falling apart all around me. But the idea of complaining about this to people, it's. It's a joke. Oh, my God. I just had this fucking huge deal signed, and I have this amazing stuff, and it's like, no one gives a fuck about you.
- [93:00]
Host
They don't out.
- [93:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so it. It's it's hard, man. It's. Your world shrinks. And so to the question or the comments around, like, you're a sellout, whatever, there's a huge toll to. To doing this. There's. I. I'm not saying that the. The challenges that I have are worse or. Or whatever than other people's problems. Far from it. But the idea that, like, anybody that's been, you know, relatively successful in. In social media and content is just, like, living this great life. Like, dude, it's really hard, and it really changes your life in some really negative ways, especially when people start to associate you with money.
- [93:40]
Host
And Mrs. Ballin, say, during all that, my wife's awesome.
- [93:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Amanda.
- [93:46]
Host
She must be.
- [93:47]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
She's great. She's awesome, dude. I met her in college when I went back to college to EMS Amherst. The cool thing about Amanda is she doesn't give a fuck about Mr. Ballin at all. Like, none. Like, she loves John and she loves me as her husband and the father of our kids. And she's just like, naturally, very, very grounding for me because she met me when I met her. So I was in college. And by this point, I've had my meeting with Dave and Pete up at the camp in New Hampshire. I'm back at UMass Amherst because I reapplied. I'm going to close it out at UMassi Amherst. I'm going to go to the SEAL teams. That's my plan. And so I'm, like, training a lot. I'm running and working out, and I go to my buddy's apartment, and his mutual. Or a friend of his was this other group that Amanda was a part of, and she came over one night, and we're just, like, sitting around this apartment, and Amanda and I just were, like, sitting by this. The kitchen island, and we're just, like, talking. And I wasn't bragging at all, but I was talking about, you know, what I was going to do after college. And I was like, well, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go try out and try to become a Navy seal. And Amanda and most people, when they hear this, oh, wow. Like, whoa, cool. And Amanda, she's. She's. I'm sitting and she's standing next to me, and just unprompted, she reaches up and she grabs. She grabs my arm, like, my biceps, like, reaches under and squeezes it, and she just goes, I don't know.
- [95:12]
Host
I don't know.
- [95:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I don't know if you're gonna make it.
- [95:14]
Host
What did she say when you Said I'm gonna be a full time tiktoker. Oh.
- [95:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Well, you know, the thing is, is by that point she had seen me because she, she was with me when I, I, I was, she's been with me since 2010. You know, I was in Buds. She was with me in Buds. She was with me for all the deployments and everything. She was with me when, like, I lost my mind on my second deployment when I went to South America. I had a mental breakdown. She's been with me for everything.
- [95:39]
Host
Have you talked about that much?
- [95:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No.
- [95:41]
Host
Break down in South America?
- [95:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, I haven't.
- [95:43]
Host
You want to share? You don't have to.
- [95:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, I, I, I was brought up, up for that reason because it really ties to Amanda. I, yeah, I haven't really talked about it. So in Afghanistan, the way that it's been sort of the way that the story goes publicly about how I got medically retired is, gets blown up by grenade, survives, and then gets medically retired. And in some ways that is true. And, and I, I've never actually said explicitly one exactly went to the next. It's always been like, well, you know, I got hurt and then, you know, subsequently I did get medically retired and it was connected to the grenade.
- [96:19]
Host
It was.
- [96:19]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But the, what people don't know is there actually was a deployment that happened in between that. I come back From Afghanistan in 2014, I was literally blown up. And then like, I think it was like seven days later. I'm like, literally pushing a shopping cart in like Home Depot. I'm like, home, like hobbling around.
- [96:40]
Host
No. Debrief? No. Processing.
- [96:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No. And they do have pro. They have a way to do that. I, I didn't. Because of the way wound care is handled and what I needed, I sort of was ushered out. And I, I felt like in the, in Special Operations in particular, no one, no one says this, but it's sort of a thing or it was when I was in that. It's like, you want to go to war? You do. You want to go to war? And it's, it's not even like a bloodlust thing. It's more of a, this is the thing that we're supposed to be able to do. And it's sort of like this incredible. Not in a good way, but like this like, crazy thing to like, go to war and to really actively be participating in it, you know? And, and you.
- [97:29]
Host
Not fun.
- [97:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No. And I, I, I got the chance to go and I say that, that sounds weird to say it that way, but, like, I. I was. I was thrilled. And weirdly enough, and this is some shit that I probably haven't even fully processed. I remember the last. One of the last things I told my wife, life before I went to Afghanistan. We don't have kids yet. But, like, I told her. I was like, I hope I die there.
- [97:52]
Host
Oh, no.
- [97:53]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And she's like, what the. Are you.
- [97:55]
Host
Terrible things to your wife?
- [97:56]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was like, yeah. Like, I can't think of a better way to die than to be in combat. I was like. And I meant it. It wasn't even like, I'm so depressed. It was sort of like the opposite. It was like, this is my hero's journey. I'm gonna go die in Afghanistan. And I. I couldn't even believe I was saying it to her laying in bed in our house in Virginia, and she was, like, mad about it. She's like, why would you say this to me now? And I'm like, I'm just being honest. And so I had this, like, weird mentality. And, like, I go to Afghanistan, and, like, honestly, in a way, it was many of the things I thought it would be and many of the things I didn't. There were some fucking horrible things over there. Like, the way that I acted at times. Not, like, illegally or something, but the person I became was like, I was the guy that's. That would. Would talk to people on target after the shooting was done or just like. I was like. The. Interrogation is the wrong word because it's. It's very sensitive. If you call yourself an interrogator, there's a whole course for that. There's levels of clearance. I wasn't any of that. I was like a. I was known as a tactical questioner. And what it meant is I would often be alone with people that were just trying to kill me, and I'm trying to extract information from them really quickly about things that we need to know right fucking now. And I'm a Navy seal, and I've been trained in certain ways, and there were things that I was doing that were, like, fucking barbaric and like, what? Just, like, violence. Committing violence to extract information and, you
- [99:26]
Host
know, have that voice going, dude, what are you doing?
- [99:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. And I couldn't stop, dude. There was, like, moments of. It was, like, thrilling and so fucked up at the same time. Again, like, I never did anything that would. Would, like, not pass the. The test of, are you allowed to?
- [99:47]
Host
But I was. It's not awful.
- [99:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No. It was like, the humanity's gone.
- [99:51]
Host
Yeah.
- [99:52]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Like, we had a guy And I still think about this guy who came into our, our care, whatever you want to call it, he was like some sort of informant or something, I don't fucking know. And I made the decision to shave his beard, which literally signals to any of his handlers that he's been in American custody. And what do you think happened to him?
- [100:17]
Host
Got killed.
- [100:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, I knew that was gonna happen.
- [100:21]
Host
In Spec Ops, do they train you to dehumanize the enemy to make it easier? Yeah, yeah, I would think so.
- [100:29]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. And then there was this.
- [100:31]
Host
I call him another way. Huh? I don't know of another way.
- [100:34]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Well, there isn't. I mean, it's like you're asking people to go commit violence, like really intimate violence. It's like, I mean I, I struggled mightily with, with sort of the reality of what we had been asked to do. Because you know, when I look back at that deployment, I did all the things that we're trained to do, you know. And like I remember there was this one kid and he lived, but just sometimes we'd have people turned over. We were staying at this outstation that's like way off in the sticks in Afghanistan. And periodically the Afghani police or army would like drag in some person they claimed was like, oh, they're passing information to Al Qaeda or the Taliban. And honestly it was so corrupt. Like there's 99% of the time it was just. They didn't like somebody, of course. And somehow or another we got this 16 year old kid in our custody and I was called over to go talk to him. And like I don't have kids at this point. I'm like 25 or 6 or whatever I am, and I'm in this small room with him and I made him stand in this like, like, like bin of ice for some reason, which is just stupid. But like I had him like stand in ice and it wasn't even, I wasn't even like asking him questions. I was like humiliating him. And you got to remember that it sounds just like I'm, I lost my humanity. But in a way, like when you are in an environment where like it isn't that you are literally being shot at 247 and far from it it. But you're in an environment where death could come at any moment for real. Like we were in a base that like theoretically could be overrun at any time. We had like this thing called a ptids blimp overhead that constantly looked for like suicide bombers that would attack us at any moment. We had to sleep with like Weapons right by our bed and had to be ready to go run out and like, you know, so you're living in an environment that's nothing like being a civilian. And, and in order to not just survive but, but thrive, you, you, you, you take on a lot of guys did this like primal state. And when you're the guy that's meant to be in a weird way, like the intimidator, like you need to go in and you need to scare the fuck out of these dudes into giving you information. You need to embody that Persona and make sure your dudes are confident that you can do that. And I really took to it it. And it's funny now. It's not funny but like I'm so not the guy that's like walking around puffing my chest out, trying to be like intimidating. But like in Afghanistan, like I was, I was the guy that was put in the room to like with people and get them to give us information and like scare people into doing.
- [103:31]
Host
Why would you be chosen for that?
- [103:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was really good at it.
- [103:35]
Host
Like walk me through.
- [103:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I was just, I had this weird like ability to like stare at people and like get them to see that like I'm prepared to kill you right now. I'm genuinely prepared to kill you.
- [103:49]
Host
Did you ever tell them stories?
- [103:52]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [103:52]
Host
Because the stories can be used as a weapon. For sure.
- [103:55]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There was, there were definitely moments where I would like, it was a little bit difficult. Like I, I spoke very broken posh tune in Farsi. We had an, we had an interrogator, we had interpreters. But like there were some people that broke really quickly. And by broke I don't mean like lengthy interrogations or anything, but like they just, they quickly understood that you're in a closed room, there's no surveillance overhead. If, if you die in here, no one's going to, no one's going to do anything about it.
- [104:25]
Host
Yeah.
- [104:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And they've been, they've been up against NATO for long enough to know that like you don't want to be in closed rooms with. By the way, I wasn't, I was wearing like shorts, like cut off shorts and a, a flannel and like my kit doesn't look normal. I have like a bowie knife on my chest and I have like all this kit that's like not normal. I have a huge ass mohawk and this weird facial hair and I'm like gaunt and just like I've been out here like doing these operations for months and we've been getting shot at and shooting it back at people. Like, it came across when I was in the room with people. Like, my capacity for violence is higher than yours and I'm backed by people out there.
- [105:10]
Host
Right. You're tied to a chair.
- [105:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You gotta do it. And so. But that kid I remember, I just, I knew why he was handed over to us. It was actually because he had taken some pot shots at us. Like our convoy as we like rolled into our camp or whatever. And I don't really know what his story was, but it's like, okay, you're a 16 year old kid. We know that the Taliban, like routinely, like summer, summarily will just execute people in these neighboring villages. We know there have been cases of people being told, go shoot at the Americans or we're gonna fucking kill your family.
- [105:46]
Host
Yep.
- [105:47]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And this kid is in this impossible situation where first of all, if you shoot at, at, at us, forget NATO, if you shoot it at our platoon, we're going to kill you.
- [105:58]
Host
Yes.
- [105:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I, and I, I don't mean like in a. We might find you at some. I mean like literally you're gonna die because we will track you, we will find you and kill you. There weren't any survivors. So I mean that, that's an exaggeration. But it was sort of like if we saw you and you engaged us, you're dead. That's what's gonna happen. We're gonna call in JDAMs, we're gonna lock on you with our 50 cal and our up arm, even hit us. Even if he shot us 50 fucking times, you're, you're dead. But this kid, it's like he's shooting at a convoy. He's been hand over, handed over to us. But like, what else is he gonna do? He probably was put up to it and it's like, here I am.
- [106:39]
Host
Like, he didn't have that gun.
- [106:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He didn't, he had nothing. He's a kid.
- [106:43]
Host
Someone gave him the gun.
- [106:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's a kid. And like, But I was like dealing with, I wasn't alone in the room. And this doesn't, I'm not putting blame on other people, but it's like me and a more senior guy who's like watching.
- [106:57]
Host
There's no blame here. I don't think this is just a thing.
- [107:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I'm like getting physical with this kid and it's just he clearly doesn't even know what to do.
- [107:05]
Host
He wasn't mouthing off or anything.
- [107:07]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, he like literally didn't know what to do. And eventually I just sort of stopped and we let the kid go and it was like almost, it was a joke. By the end, it's like this kid, like, you can go, he's not useful to us. And we turned him back over. And I know he, he survived at least several days later. But like, the reason I say all that is like the. Actually, no, there's, there's one other that I would say I've never spoken about publicly. Towards the end of the time I was in Afghanistan, there was, we did this operation where we were just sort of clearing this valley, which sort of is a generic way of saying we were sort of marching through an area with known militants and we just were seeing what happened happened. And we did get into a contact. They were shooting at us, we're shooting back at them, but it was like at a distance. And we, totally within the rules of engagement, called in an airstrike on, on a group of military age males and we struck them. We used a Hellfire missile, which is like a relatively precise small munition that is very lethal to like people close by, but not so lethal if you're like 10. I'm probably wrong about the actual distances, but like, if you're near it but not that close, you might get maimed, but you're not going to die. And this guy, this older guy, got badly wounded. We thought he was dead. And so after you, you kill someone or kill anybody, we, you know, or even just after any sort of contact, you do like a, a battle damage assessment. You'll go and you'll like, look at what happened and document it. We have like these fingerprint scanners, like, it's called a seek. You like take dead guy's hands and like, so there's a process to it and it's literally to document what happened. And it doesn't mean that we constantly were killing everybody and whatever. But we went over to, not me, but another element within our platoon went over to do the battle damage assessment on this, this drop and they found this guy. As they're getting closer, they could see he was still alive. He's, he's an older guy, he's been gravely injured and he's, he's clearly bleeding to death. He's like propped up against a tree. He's, he's fucking, he's in a really bad way. He's going to die, but he's totally alive. He's like dying a slow and miserable death. And I mean, truly, I can't even get into like, who said this? But put it this way, there was There were, there were senior people that were there that day and it was like, hey, Alan, like, rite of passage. And they pulled a knife that we had, we had gotten off of one of the guys we killed earlier. And they were like, go, go finish him off. And they were like, as I took the knife and I'm walking over to this village, like the guy's family was out, like they're all out in the courtyard and. They were telling me I'm Foxtrot8 was my call sign. They were like, make sure you make sure you go inside of a building first. And I remember, I just, I didn't want to do it. I. I walk over to where there's this group of crying women and children and they know what's happening. And I start walking over to this guy and I'm like, I'm about to murder someone. This is different. This is different than other stuff. And right as I'm like nearing him, I didn't literally have the knife up, but as I'm like as close as you and I are and I see how fucked up he is and he's looking at me and he knows what's happening. One of the best fucking dudes I've ever met on the planet. Also a new guy, he walked over and he was like, no, you're not doing that. And he literally, he came over the radio and he's junior, the junior guy. And there are very senior dudes on target. This is a fucking big deal. He's like, he's not doing this right now. We're going to call in a medevac or we're going to get this guy help. We cannot become fucking savages. We can't kill people like this. Can't do it.
- [111:13]
Host
Were you going to do it?
- [111:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. And that in a weird way, even though I didn't do it and the guy was brought to a hospital, I got to be honest, I don't know what happened to him. Like, in a way I've. I don't know what to do with the fact that I would have killed him.
- [111:31]
Host
That's a moment that changes you. It's different than shooting in a building in front of his family.
- [111:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I mean, dude. So not long after that, like very shortly after that day, you know, I have the near death experience of the grenade blowing up near me and I'm suddenly like medevaced out of country and I'm like back home. And I just, I never. The. The mentality of being that guy, the interrogator, if you will. The Guy willing to, to murder. It didn't go away, you know, and, and it didn't mean that I was like being violent. But like, I.
- [112:18]
Host
What do you mean it didn't go away?
- [112:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You carried what so mad.
- [112:22]
Host
Yeah.
- [112:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And you know what's funny? And I can only. I know this now. I remember being so critical mentally, like internally, very critical of anybody who claimed ptsd, who in my mind didn't deserve to be able to be able to claim that. Because I, in my mind I'm like, I'm a Navy seal. I've been to war, I, I almost died. You know, I'm the fuck, man. That was sort of my mentality. Non, non, ironically, that was like actually how I felt. And I remember thinking, and I don't even have ptsd. I don't have any of that. Like, I'm good to go, right? And very quickly I got into another. The way it works on the white side. So anything not Seal Team 6, all the other teams, you're in these two year rotation cycles where it's like you deploy for usually six months and you come back and you're, you're, you're, you're almost immediately, within reason, in another cycle, often with a different team, different platoon, you do 18 months of training to go deploy for another six months. So it's constantly. And then sometimes you're, you're pulled out of the rotation and you do a teaching cycle, you go become a BUDS instructor for a couple of years. But I pretty much right away was put back into a rotation by choice. As a new guy, you sort of do back to back tours, back to back rotations before you can do anything else.
- [113:41]
Host
Well, hang on. Did Amanda see anything different about you when you got back?
- [113:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I don't know. I, I know that I was. Well, yeah, she did. For sure she did. I, I would say my temper was pretty extreme. And it wasn't extreme. Like I was mad all the time. I would get so, so, so mad about everything. Like, I remember our, our, the homeowners association in Virginia Beach. They, they were pretty nitpicky and they like came around. Everybody hates each other. Yeah, everyone does. And they, and I, and they can't
- [114:22]
Host
put an American flag in front of my house. I'll pay the fine.
- [114:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They were mad about our chimney cap being rusted. And I was so mad.
- [114:31]
Host
Oh no.
- [114:32]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I called them like, do you have any clue who I am? And they're like, sir, we have no idea who you are. Was in Afghanistan. You don't get it. It's like, sir, how could we have known that?
- [114:44]
Host
We just want you to paint it.
- [114:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Please, please believe it. Do it for you. But I, I was just mad a lot. But the thing is, is, is I was really quickly back into another rotation. I had, I had injuries that were bad. You know, I have, right Now I have 26 pieces of shrapnel that are still in my leg. They're microscopic at this point, but like, I, I have pain in my ankle, I got pain in my hip. They, they debrided as much as they could, but I had like, real, real issues with, with pain, pain in my leg. And then also I still have this. I, I have pretty serious shoulder pain. The grenade blast, when it happened, it dislocated both my shoulders, like briefly. Like, it's slap tear. It tore both labrums. So I had like, really bad shoulder pain. And like, I'm sort of hobbling around a little bit, but I was able to sort of, I got the bicep tendonis surgery, which sort of patches up and, and I was just like, I, I, I, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a guy that's done some shit. I'm a Navy SEAL of combat experience. I'm getting into another rotation. I'm deploying again weekend. I'm not, I'm not a guy with ptsd. Like, and so I'm like immersed pretty much right away with like the next cycle. And Even though it's 18 months till you deploy again, you're training constantly.
- [115:51]
Host
You're no psych eval coming back on rotation.
- [115:54]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, like, you're just in it.
- [115:55]
Host
And someone's got to know, like, this guy's probably not ready.
- [115:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
The thing is, is I was one of many.
- [116:01]
Host
Yeah, of course. And two cousins that came back up from this, one in the core one in army me.
- [116:07]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so we end up.
- [116:08]
Host
And they're still fucked up.
- [116:09]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's, it's unfortunate. You know, I, I ended up 18 months later deploying to Peru to do like, I mean, basically counter drug operations, but like, in a really indirect way. I mean, effectively we were going over there to, to train, you know, on a daily basis. Other. They're called the foes, the fuerza de operaciones especiales, how to do drug interdictions. And then they would go sort of execute, and we'd sort of advise to some degree, but it was like very, very more advisory. Right. And I remember I, I was in a school for the Navy called JTAC School. I was learning how to talk to Aircraft and call in airstrikes and stuff. And it meant that I would deploy after the group had already landed in Peru because very fragmented. I was going to be deploying with just like seven or eight guys versus a full platoon. To have a full troop to Afghanistan was like 50 or 60. And I had put no thought honestly, into the South America tour because I'm like, dude, I was in Afghanistan. I've seen combat. Like, this is gonna be stupid, like, dumb. You know, I thought of it as just a waste of time. Like, it's just, hopefully we'll get through real quick and then I'll go, oh, you know, maybe I'll try trial for dev career or something. And I. I got in the plane and I flew to Germany. And I'm going with just like two other guys. Actually. One of them was actually Jim Flatley. Love that guy. And actually, actually that was our trip to Afghanistan. I think I flew to South America by myself. I did, yeah. I'm confusing the two. I flew to South America alone. So I fly to. To Germany and then I fly to South America. And when I got there, I had been given instructions to like, hey, you know, you're gonna land in this airport that's like, you know, it's predominantly Spanish speaking because Peru is like very non English. It's like very non English. And you're gonna meet up with your driver, you'll get your stuff. And like, you know, we were staying in this house, we, the. The seals that were there in Miraflores, Peru, which is fucking beautiful. This is like where you go if you're, like, rich and you want to go on an amazing vacation, you go to Miraflores. And we were staying in this literal, like, mansion in a compound. It was in this beautiful neighborhood that was like, so expensive, so affluent, and it was actually next to, like, a slum that was like the murder capital of South America. But, you know, we were there because it's like, you know, we're not really doing direct operations at all. We're just there to advise. Like, the government's putting us up in a nice place. We're going to work out of here, commute in, whatever. And so I land in South America, and I don't know how to describe it. It was like I had, like, in the most cliche way, like a flashback. I hadn't given much thought to the Afghanistan deployment really at all beyond, like, the top level, like, I'm so cool sort of mentality. But I land in South America in Peru, and it was like, oh, my God, I'm in, like, another country. That sounds stupid, but, like, I had discounted this so much in my mind because it wasn't going to be combat.
- [119:17]
Host
That.
- [119:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I'm like, in a foreign country. I don't speak a lick of Spanish. Like, I blew off any. Any of the Spanish training. I didn't give a fuck about it. Like, I've seen combat. I have a purple Heart. I don't give a shit about any of this. And I, I got in the car, which was such a nightmare, trying to navigate this very crowded little airport, and everyone's speaking, you know, Spanish, and I'm so lost. And I finally find my car that's going to bring me to the house. And, like, he didn't speak any English and it was like, I don't even know where I'm going. And we're like, driving, and it's like you're driving through. At times. When we got to, like, the Miraflores area, it was beautiful. But a lot of the drive was through some really rough neighborhoods. And one of the things that was immediately striking when I was in Afghanistan is there's nothing quite like driving through an area in Afghanistan that's like, war torn and, like, rough video doesn't do it. Like, hearing other people. It's just different when you're looking out the window and you're like, this is literally like war. That's where we are. And driving through, like, the slums of. Of Peru where, like, truly, there's like, child hitmen out here.
- [120:26]
Host
Yeah.
- [120:28]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was like, holy. I am like, I am not ready for this. I'm not ready to be here. And, dude, I. I got there and I, like, didn't really know the guys that were part of the team. It was sort of a hodgepodge of seals and texts. I think the statute of limitations have passed, so I can be honest about some stuff. They. They sold cape. Klonzapan. Klonzapan. So benzodiazepine over the counter there. And I discovered that. That really early on.
- [121:02]
Host
That's pretty addictive stuff, that, that Benzo, dude.
- [121:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I. I became hopelessly addicted to it. And I was drinking constantly. I had my. I had. Oh, yeah, because I began. I began having suicidal tendencies. Not even, not even suicidal tendencies. Like, I began looking up, like, how, How. How likely is it to die from drinking too much on a Benzo? And it's. It's pretty high.
- [121:27]
Host
You're looking that up. So, you know, this is. I'm hurting myself here. So you're aware of that. But you're doing it.
- [121:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I don't even really remember the first month that I was there, dude, I went so overboard. I would, like just go out at night and this is like, not okay what I was doing. I put the team in a lot. I put them in a very hard place. I would go out at night and not tell anyone. High as fuck. Not even high. I don't even know how you describe what it's like to be fucked up on benzos. You're like, wow, I'm so lucid. I'm so focused. But you're fucking not.
- [122:04]
Host
I'm not going to remember any of this.
- [122:05]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No. And I would just go out and wander the streets. And I went to this one area where it was like homeless people, like the slums of Peru. And I would just like sit there and smoke cigarettes with like. And I'd like stay there all night. And I like, I began going there on purpose to like, ask them about if they had suicidal thoughts. I'm like sitting with. They don't even speak English. I didn't even. Now that I'm thinking about it, like, I'm speaking English, I'm like a rambling up dude. And it got to the point where my team, literally, they're like, dude, what the is wrong with. They took my gun away.
- [122:44]
Host
Of course I was.
- [122:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I. I was watched 247 and coming down off benzos is horrible. It's also. You can like die coming down off benzos. But my, my, my team that was there, I mean, luckily a lot of them had been with me in Afghanistan and sort of like, you know, if there was ever some good grace there, I think they understood that. It isn't that I had seen so much. It was just like I was, I was really struggling with frankly, the, the role I played in Afghanistan that a lot of the guys that I was there with actually weren't even fully aware of was like that behind closed doors guys, guy that like the, the not honorable stuff. Like in some ways you could make the case that like, at least out on the open battlefield, there's honor in, you know, like, you're both sort of having a shot at each other. But like that after action, when someone's fucking, they can't do anything and they're in a room with just you and like, you, you can do anything to them.
- [123:39]
Host
There's no honor in that.
- [123:40]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There's none. And I, I fucking hated myself for it. And I lost my fucking mind. I began having this. This is on. On the. Towards the tail end of that first month, I was hallucinating. Like, I had the same hallucination, like, all the time. I'd be laying in my room and it was like, so, like, muggy in Peru. There's constant moisture. Like, everything's wet and it was, like, hot. We didn't have air conditioning. Like, laying on my sweaty ass sheets that I never cleaned. That was so gross. Like, just unclean. And I would fall into this, like, weird mindset of I would be convinced I was on a corner in Russia, like, on a street corner in Russia. And it's like, all brown buildings around me. And I'd be, like, standing on the street corner and, like, I felt like I had orders, like, military orders to be there, and I had to be there. And I would lay on my bed believing I was standing in Russia on a street corner for fucking, like, hours and hours and hours, just, like, unmoving. I would just sit there, there, and then I'd, like, come out of it and be like, what the am I even doing? And then I'd, like, go pop some benzo Aspenes.
- [124:54]
Host
Are you doing. Are you working at all during any of this? Are you?
- [124:57]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They. I didn't do on that deployment.
- [125:00]
Host
You have a CEO that's like, dude,
- [125:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was a liability. Yeah. And I was such a liability that they. I think they recognized that, like, this is this. This is career ending for sure. If anybody finds out that, like, you're doing this. And it should be, shouldn't it? Definitely. I should be out of the military. You're not fit to be here.
- [125:20]
Host
No.
- [125:21]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And it got to the point where I. I was openly saying, I want to die. Like, I want to be done. But to be honest, it was almost like my own cop out. I don't even know what I'm doing. And I didn't even know why I was so upset. But it was definitely tethered to, like, this belief that, like, I'm a fraud. There's, like, the people that. That back home think I'm like this honorable war hero, the guy that I really wished I was. I know I'm not. I know I'm not. Like, there are things that I did not need to do, forget blame or not. Just things that I found myself doing overseas that are just inhuman and did not need to be done. But I knew I could do them with impunity. And living with that, knowing that there's no recourse.
- [126:07]
Host
Did you finally figure out who you were angry at? You know, now?
- [126:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I mean, I was fucking mad at myself.
- [126:14]
Host
I know yourself. I mean, it's shame is what it was.
- [126:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It was intense shame. And so when I came back from Peru and actually I did do the whole deployment and it was only because my team frankly kept me there and looked after me. And frankly I bet they fucking hated the fuck out of me while I was there there, but they protected me. And I actually, it's. I remember it was just, it was just, it was a lot. But I came home from that deployment and I didn't really even know how much my wife, my family even knew. Like I didn't really even know. Like I had at, at one point I knew that like some of my teammates were like reaching out to dudes States side to be like, what do we do with, with Alan?
- [127:00]
Host
They were. While you were down there because they
- [127:02]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
didn't want the command to find out because it would be bad for me and my career. But I know it eventually found its way to my wife and you know, my, my in laws and my parents. And it apparently was like this huge issue back home because it's like I have a fragmented family. I have, my parents are divorced and you know, they're finding out that like, wait a minute, so John's taking drugs, he's talked about suicide, they're losing track of him at times. He's basically can't even do his job. And they're not telling the command, the fuck is that? Like, what are we gonna do? And it was like this crisis within my family of do we go to South America and like literally take him home? No, you can't really do that. And so oddly enough, Dave and Pete were the guys that were tapped to get in touch with me. And the same guys that sort of of helped find the vision to get me in were the same ones that they're like, dude, they like called me all the time while I was out in South America. I, I remember just like weeping on the phone to them and I don't even know what we talked about, but they were just like there for me in a way. And they also just. There was no judgment being passed. It was like, this is sort of what happens, you know. And they were like, when you get home, you need to clean your shit up and figure out if this is what you want to do. And so really because of everybody around me, I survived literally that deployment. And I come home and I'm just fucking broken. Like, I'm broken. And it came to a head. And I love my kids and at this point I had a daughter. And in like the first year I was Home. I had this feeling when I was alone with my daughter that I was going to hurt her. And I never did. And I never, ever came close to it. But I'm telling you that one of the things that I would do overseas is I'd be in closed rooms, like, hurting people. And I was trying so hard to, like, not be that person. And I. The worst times, and it's, like, so shameful. And I brought it up so many times to, like, my therapist. And it's actually.
- [129:17]
Host
What.
- [129:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
What this. I would say this story that I'm going to tell you is what prompted my medical retirement. It was. I went to my therapist because I was told by my own team at this time, because when I came back from that deployment, I was in a training cell. They're like, dude, you need to go see somebody. We know what happened in Peru. Everybody does. Like, you need to go see someone. And she asked me, like, how are you doing? And I was sort of, like, not really telling her stuff, like how, you know, downplaying it. And I. I told her. I was like, I have this thing, though, where when I'm giving my kids a bath, I'm worried I'm gonna, like, drown my kids. And I have to tell my wife to come in and finish the bath because I'm worried I'm gonna do that. And I said it to her, like, you know, yeah, it's a thought that
- [130:02]
Host
everyone has this thought.
- [130:03]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And she goes, you. You literally. You have to find a way to, like, stop that. And if. I mean, she's like, I've had other people that. That similar shoes to you that are. Had to remove all the knives from their house because they're worried they're going to do something. She's like, this is trauma. This is trauma playing out.
- [130:22]
Host
Did you tell Amanda what you were thinking? Yeah.
- [130:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And I can say that was when Amanda knew. I don't know what's going on with my husband. I don't know what happened to him. I shared some details with her. More intimate details about sort of Afghanistan and behind closed doors stuff, and the fear of me harming the things that I would literally die for in a heartbeat. I love my kids more than anything. I've never, ever, ever come close to laying a hand on them at all. But the fact that that thought would enter my mind, and I had to, like, actively mitigate it. I had to, like, have a man. Like, I couldn't do bath time. Time. Dad can't do bath time because dad might drown you. Yeah. Like, it was so up. And so I began, as soon as I admitted that to my Navy psych, she's like, I, I don't think you're fit to be in this line of work anymore. And she was like, also, like, from a physical standpoint, like, you have serious issues with your shoulders. You have serious issues with the shrapnel. Like, that alone probably would be enough to start thinking about it. If you wanted to push through it, you could. But she's like, I'm telling you right now, like, you're on a path, that this doesn't end well for you, it doesn't end well for your family, and you're probably not even fit to be a SEAL anymore. And I gotta be honest, I was like, holy shit, you're right. Like, I'm not fucking fit to do this job. And honestly, I was grappling so hard with like, what, why, why did we go to Afghanistan? Why were we doing any. Forget the honor or dishonor of what we did. It's like, like, I don't know, why. What the are we doing over there?
- [132:04]
Host
I don't know.
- [132:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was there and I don't know.
- [132:07]
Host
I don't know. And it's like, but wait a minute, family, who's there?
- [132:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We don't know, but it's like we killed people.
- [132:13]
Host
Yeah.
- [132:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Why?
- [132:16]
Host
Politics.
- [132:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And then realizing that, like, I have potentially permanently damaged myself and not to mention the damage I've done to other people. Of course, I'm saying, like, well, that
- [132:28]
Host
16 year old kid still remembers that day. I bet, I bet that family of that old man still remember the America with the knife.
- [132:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's just. And so I, I ultimately was medically retired due to like, mental instability. I mean, it was a, There was an attribute, there was an attribution because they give you percentages of like, literally this is why you were retired. I want to say it was like 20 or 30, 30%, like physical injury to legs, like 50%, like mentally not fit to do this job. And I, even if I hadn't been medically retired, I, after coming home from that Peru disaster, I, like, was truly at odds with not only what I had done, but like with just the idea of what I was doing. Like, even if it had been like politics, you know, and so now it's like there's this part of me that exists but is fully suppressed all the time. And I've described it to people. Not a lot actually, really not a lot at all. But it's like, I view in some ways and maybe this is giving myself Too much not credit, but leniency. The sacrifice that a lot of people end up making in the military is, of course, there are people that pay the ultimate sacrifice that die or who are physically maimed in a really horrible way. But I would imagine that there's also, like, this thing that's called moral injury. It's a term that gets thrown around a lot. There's like this. This. This sacrifice of yourself up mentally in a way that'll never be fixed, never, ever, because you did damage to other people in the process. And that is a burden that is, in a way, like, it doesn't comport with society. You can't. Like, let's think about it. If I said, hey, guys, I'm really struggling with PTSD because, you know, I. Combat was scary, and, like, getting shot at was scary. People are like, wow, like, I feel bad for you. Whatever. I'm really up. Because I brutalized people that really. They were, like, sort of harmless and. And literally probably innocent.
- [134:42]
Host
You believe in God? Huh? You believe in God?
- [134:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I certainly found God in Peru.
- [134:46]
Host
He's gonna be displeased.
- [134:49]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, I. But I think that when I think about the sacrifice of the military, it's. And I don't say it in like a. An honorable way. I mean, like, the literal sacrifices at the end of it, I think some people, me being one of them, walk away a damaged person who did a lot of damage. And it's unfortunate. The mechanism by which that happened is not something that works well in society. To talk about, it's okay to talk about when your friends got killed, it's okay to talk about, like, being in combat. It's not okay to talk about the time that you were gonna go murder somebody, but luckily somebody intervened, or when you people up behind closed doors, frankly, because you could. Like, there's really not much more to it. Or like, that you took great pleasure. And when you rolled into villages and you watched the women and children run for their fucking lives out into the desert, and you're gonna go kill their husbands and their brothers and their sons, you're gonna fucking kill them. That's what you're gonna go do. And, like, you don't even know why. And you're like, fuck, yeah, that's a tough thing to live with. Not only that you did it, but that you were stoked to go do it. And so now being Mr. Pollen, I think one of the things I try really hard to do is, like, just. Even if inside there's this horribly up part of me, like, I try so hard to, like, just be like a good person now and not like it makes up for anything I did or whatever, but it's like giving people an outlet and it know weirdly about dark stuff. Giving them a distraction from life feels like, you know, sort of a service that's good for people, take their mind off things that are bad in their lives. I think that's worth something, you know, the foundation. You know, I care a lot about what we're doing with the Mr. Boland foundation, but, like, the reality is, it's like, dude, I will always carry with me a belief that no one really knows what a fucking horrible person I was.
- [136:52]
Host
There's a theme running through your story that's starting to emerge, and that's one of penance and conscience. When we get in the third segment, I'm going to bring that up again with regards to your book. It's brutal, man.
- [137:09]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, I remember, dude, when I came back from Afghanistan, I was so fucking proud. So, so proud to, like, be a seal.
- [137:21]
Host
You know, a lot of veteran creators allow their myth to grow.
- [137:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [137:25]
Host
And you keep correcting the record down. Nobody else does that. Why is it so important to keep the record straight?
- [137:40]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I found that one of the. The times I feel most proud of myself now is when I'm being like, self. Not self deprecating, but, like, brutally honest about who I really am. I think that I have pretended to be somebody at times in my life, most notably the SEAL thing. Not pretended. I took on a Persona. Now it's like I get a lot of.
- [138:10]
Host
Of.
- [138:10]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I would even call it fulfillment. Maybe it's penance, I don't know, out of, like, saying the ugly truths about yourself, big or small, you know, Like, I. One of the stories that I tell that is, like, really sort of humiliating and in no way really makes me even look like I got anything good out of the story. But I tell it. I've told it on. I'm sure millions of people have heard it. It's. It's the story of when I'm at the tail end of the. Of SEAL training and there's this rite of passage where you got to sit in a cloud of poisonous gas, CS gas, and you got to just take it and not run. And as soon as the gas kicked off, we're all standing in this field in formation. We're all like, the 50 of us. We're all crouched together, and I'm on the outside of our flank, and we're all kneeling in this field, and all the instructors have these pool Sticks. And at the end of the pool, sticks, there's the CS canisters that have been lit off this huge wall. White cloud of poisonous gas, which makes you feel like you're on fire when you breathe it in. And they're dousing us in CS gas. And you gotta sit there. It's like 30 seconds or a minute
- [139:14]
Host
or whatever it is.
- [139:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
It's like a long, miserable time. And it's like, don't run. And the instructors have the gas masks on. I began inhaling. This is late in training, too. This is like, everybody here is going to be a Navy seal. Everybody. And I began inhaling the gas, and it was like, fight or flight? Kicked in. Completely kicked in. And I'm fucking out of there. Wasn't thinking nothing. I am up and I'm sprinting away from the group. No one else did. Zero others. I was tackled by an instructor, and they said, get the fa. Get. Get back with your fucking class. And I was like, no, fuck, no. No. Not even consciously thinking. I'm just doing. I'm surv. This is survival coming in. Right? Right. And so they held me to the ground as my class sits there and takes the gas. And they don't even know it's happened yet because they're so caught up in being poisoned.
- [140:11]
Host
Sure, it's distracting.
- [140:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And they. Afterwards, they all ran to the ocean and jumped in the ocean. And then we all had to run back out on San Clemente island in Coronado. We run back into the classroom, and it's like this tiered seating, like a college classroom. And everybody's sitting in there. No one really knows what happened. In fact, no one even is thinking that somebody ran, because that doesn't really happen. That doesn't happen. And everyone's sitting in there, and I know what's happened. And I'm sitting in the back. And I had jumped in the ocean, too, so no one knew I did or didn't do it. And our instructors, they come in, finally they show up after us. We're always sitting there waiting patiently with our notebook and pencil and water bottle ready to go. And they come in, and the main instructor, who was just. I fucking hated this guy. Not because of what he said or did, but he was just really diabolical.
- [141:04]
Host
That's his job.
- [141:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That's his job. And he did a good job. He comes in and he looks up and he goes, where's the pussy? And I know it's me. And I stand up and no one really knows what it's about. And. And he proceeds to go, Allen, I don't want to serve with you. I think you're a fucking coward.
- [141:26]
Host
Wow.
- [141:26]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He was like, hey, guys, he ran during the CS gas. I'm telling you right now, you don't want. You don't want to be in a gunfight with that guy. Like, if he's going to run now, what's he going to do when your life's on the line? He fucking bailed on you. He's like, alan, sit the fuck down. But he's like, I hope you do not get your trident. I don't want to serve with you now. Normally, it's like, yo, you like stupid shit. This was like a stern talking to in front of my whole class. This was on, like, day five of 30 days straight that you train out at the island to wrap up your training.
- [141:57]
Host
So you're still with these guys another three weeks.
- [141:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was ostracized.
- [142:01]
Host
Was this a lesson, or did he mean it?
- [142:03]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He meant that. I think he meant that. And I think the way he. He meant it was, either you'll rise to the occasion and you'll overcome this, or you won't, and you should be. Be gone. I had to wear. From that moment on, for the rest of the time we were out at the island, you wear camis. I had to wear these called UDT shorts. Like, very short shorts, like, canvas shorts. I had to put them over my pants to signify that I was a. And, you know, I tell that story in part because it's like, I did learn to. I can't make people unhear what they heard or unthink what they think. I. I can only sort of bear this burden. I need to just demonstrate that I am. I am a good teammate, that this is an anomaly, and that it's a. It's a flight instinct from poisonous gas, guys. It's not the same thing as, like, my teammates dying. I'm gonna bail on them. But the reality is, is is I was so, so humiliated. I. I came back from the island, and I didn't bring it up to my wife. I didn't bring it up. I hid it. And it was like, shame, of course, because I really took on this idea that I wasn't good enough and not trying to create connections where there aren't. I think from that point on, I was on a mission to prove that I was going to be the number one Navy seal. I might not be the best shot or the best at tactics, but I'll take that knife.
- [143:30]
Host
Maybe part of his lesson was, I know this Guy's not gonna fucking run now.
- [143:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Very true.
- [143:37]
Host
There's a connection there. I've heard you say that we don't rise to our expectations.
- [143:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We fall to the level of our training.
- [143:44]
Host
Our training. You know how that's attributed to?
- [143:46]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I actually don't, but I love that quote.
- [143:48]
Host
It's attributed to Archilochus, who is a Greek poet, probably the father of Western storytelling. 7th century BC he was a warrior poet. He was the first soldier to talk about fear in battle.
- [144:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [144:02]
Host
He's famous for leaving his shield behind and saying it. This is about survival. I'll get another shield. I'm surprised you didn't look into him because it's the same story, man.
- [144:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I definitely know the quote. I have not looked into him though.
- [144:14]
Host
He's an anti hero like you, like a lot of the people in your stories, which going into the break reminds me, the ancient Greeks, you don't use a prompter. You just kind of immerse yourself in the story and you tell it differently each time when you're live and so forth. Sure. Do you see yourself as. This is the, like the world's second oldest profession is. The bard is just telling stories. Like, this is Homer.
- [144:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. And honestly, like, I can see why it's maintained its relevance for so long because it's. I think one of the most amazing things about being a storyteller, a bard, is when you have an audience that you can watch as they listen to your story. I mean, humans are so predisposed to lean in when there's a story. And if you can master the art or if you can just get good at telling a story that has those beats that people naturally pick up on. Just watching somebody be aware that, like I'm hearing a story, there's a flow to it, there's an arc, there's going to be some sort of resolution or twist. There's like I did. We did a live tour in 2024 and I, you know, we did several shows just live. And it was just me telling stories to a crowd and it was just like the most incredible thing. Nerve wracking as hell. And there's lots of stress around, like ticket sales and stuff. Stuff. But like when you're in it. I remember I was at the, the Chicago theater and I before, I'm like in the green room and it's like, this is where Frank Sinatra was before he went out. And it's like, what the am I doing here? And then I went out on stage and just. It's a sea of people that are all wearing flannels, you know, and it was like, so. But I remember, like, I was a little nervous. It's intimidating. Just a little. A little nervous. But the show started, and I, like, just got into telling stories. And I remember there was this one moment as I'm looking out at the crowd of, like, thousands of people, and there was not one. At least from my perspective. Maybe there was, but I couldn't see a single phone. None. Just eyeballs, just, like, looking at me. Because it's a story, and it's like they've. They're invested in the story. And I also knew that, like. Like, I have something I'm going to give them in this story that's so fucking good. And I can't wait to watch the reaction as it, like, flows across the crowd. It's like, the most amazing feeling. Like, I. It's hard to even put in words what it's like to have, like, a captive audience. Whether it's big or small, just a captive audience that you're telling a story to. It's unmatched.
- [147:03]
Host
We'll be back in a minute. We'll talk more about how John Allen structures the story. You are famous for ethical storytelling with true crime, meeting with the families, all that stuff.
- [147:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [147:13]
Host
Tell me about a story that you were researching. You're like, I can't do it.
- [147:22]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Well, this doesn't. Well, this doesn't qualify as what you're saying, but it sorted us, and it's an important story. I almost didn't do this one. I did, and I'm really glad I did. But I. So there's this. It's so fucking horrible.
- [147:41]
Host
There was this girl that people want.
- [147:44]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There was this girl, Jessie Blodgett. She was living in now, I think Illinois, but she. She was murdered in her. Her bedroom by a friend. And it was a friend that was, like, known to the family. It was a guy, I believe there was, like, sexual abuse as well, but he killed her and, like, strangled her to death, like, in her childhood bed. She's, like, 18, and it was their only child, Buck and Joy Blodgett, who are just very sweet people. And the reason this story, the reason I was gonna tell it at all, is because I found out that it was, like. Like, the person you least suspected did it. They were, like, involved. They went to the vigil. They're like, you know, it was, like, the most horrible betrayal. I had her. I just. The top line of the story was, like, murder mystery slash. Oh, my gosh. That person. Oh, you know, What I mean, so it's like, okay, this fits the type of story I would probably tell. I began watching interviews about it, and, like, some of the stories that you'll. You'll hear about in the interviews you see of, like, the family, it's always devastating. It isn't. Like, some are not. But there was this segment that I think it was Dateline did with Buck. And Buck, he's describing the loss of his daughter. And he was clearly extremely close with Jesse. Like, extremely close. It's his only kid. And there's this part where he's standing in the doorway of his daughter's room where she was killed. And, like, you're looking at it from the hallway, you're looking at Buck, and then you're seeing her room. And his voice is, like, cracking as he. And he's very strong. He's a strong guy. He's like, you know, I was right there. I was like, next door, and I couldn't save my little girl. She was right in here, and I couldn't save her. And I just come in here and I stand right here, and I look at the bed where she was murdered, and I just. I know that I let her down as a father. I couldn't save her. Right. Like, I mean, obviously, like, no one thinks about that with Buck. And he wasn't even home at the time.
- [150:02]
Host
Oh, he wasn't even home.
- [150:04]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Or I should say. I think the timeline is such that it was a little bit unclear when it happened. Theoretically, he might have been just getting up for work at the time, but listening to a father who's describing his child that he couldn't save, and even though, again, it's not entirely clear if he was literally home at the time it happened, your question about other stories I can't do. Anytime it reminds me or I should back it up a little more. When I'm telling stories, I'm invested. I really want to ethically tell the story, but it's sort of disassociated from my personal life. The area that I can't help but have it cross into my personal life is anytime it's like children, and I have three. And I was just thinking about immediately if one of my children were harmed in some way. And I felt personally like I didn't protect them. And, like, seeing my child's bedroom room, like, this is the safest place they're supposed to have. And so I ended up telling the story. I spoke to Bakan Joy, you know, it was with full permission, you know, and we. We told the story. And I, I think that the rendition of what I told was very powerful because it was like based on really deep talks and, and sort of, it was just a great episode. But shortly after we, we, we told that story, we ended up launching the Mr. Ballin Foundation. And that's our charity that helps victims of violent crime and their families. And one of the first grants we gave was to the Blodgett family because they had a charity that Buck had started in Jesse's name called the Love is Greater Than Hate Project, where it's like he's trying to push this idea that love can cancel out hate if it's at scale. Very small charity, but huge heart. It's like he's transformed extreme grief into like, like action. And now we fund, you know, $25,000 every year we give to Love is Greater Than Hate. And I have a great relationship with Bach. Like he, he and I talk and we text each other and like he came, he has, he was actually at that Chicago show. Just by happenstance, he was there. But I think that when it comes to kid stuff, that's extremely difficult. I mean, obviously, but like, there's another story I did that I, that I told. So I guess I'm sort of being contradictory.
- [152:36]
Host
That's all right. We're still getting the stories.
- [152:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, there was this guy, I think this was out in Washington state. This was back in, I want to say the 90s. And I think his name was Mike. And I'm pretty sure he was a pastor. He's a religious guy and he was, he definitely was a pastor. And in his, in his off time, he enjoyed going hiking and he just like regular hiking, we're not talking like alpine crazy hikes. He loved going hiking, hiking. And one day he decided he wanted to go on like a really long hike. And this was out, like, not really off trail, but close. Like, you know, it's a known area that people hike. You know, there are people that go out that way, out into the sticks, but it's pretty remote out there.
- [153:17]
Host
And this is a ball and setup. I feel it.
- [153:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so he heads out, which is going to be a three day hike. And he has not three days, maybe like four or five days. And it was sort of common that he would periodically do these longer hikes. And so he left and his family's like, they're not worried. They're going to see him in a few days. And so I think his name is Dan. So Dan, he hikes off into the forest and everything's Going fine. He had a journal. This is how we know this story.
- [153:47]
Host
Oh, okay.
- [153:49]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And at some point he decides to really go off trail. He just was feeling, you know, springing his step, he's feeling good. And he ends up going like hours, like off like straight line into the wilderness until he reaches this clearing which is like a boulder field. Like if you're not familiar with a boulder field, it's exactly what it sounds like. Just like huge rocks, like in all directions. You know, it's like imagine like a stony beach, but like huge boulders everywhere. But it's like loose, you know, but big rocks. And he begins jumping from rock to rock just to make his way. There was a little river that sort of sat at the back end of the. This huge boulder field. And so he's hopping rock to rock and as he's getting near this river, he slips or something happens where his foot goes down into one of the sort of spaces between one of the many boulders. And at the same time he like knocks one of the rocks. It rotates in, it does not crush his foot, but it like perfectly locked his foot under what amounted to be like, like six or seven hundred pound rocks just like suddenly have collapsed around one leg. He's not hurt, but there's no way to get your foot out. Oh no, there's no way. And like. And so at first, you know, he's. He was afforded the luxury of he could actually rotate and sit. He was not in like horribly. His, his foot's not being even. The circulation's really not even being cut off. It's just before that it's like having the perfect handcuff on your leg that
- [155:23]
Host
makes it even creepier.
- [155:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so he's sitting there out in this field and he's got equipment to be out in the wild. He's got like a little rain tent and he's got like the ability to capture, you know, water, like evaporated water. And he doesn't panic. And he's a very spiritual guy. He like really believes that, you know, basically everything that happens is sort of happening for a reason. In. And he begins documenting what's happened because he realistically is thinking what's going to happen here is I'm going to be stuck in this horrible position. But this is a relatively well traveled, remote area. I'm out in the open, I'm wearing bright colors, someone's going to see me. And his journal entries over the coming days sort of suggest he was optimistic. He was rationing his food from the start. He wasn't in a lot of pain at all. He was even able to sleep the way he sort of could put his. His pillow or backpack behind his head. Like, he tried whatever he could to get it off. He knew he couldn't. But he's like, he's in good spirits. You know, he's starting to get sunburned. You know, he's doing his best to avoid it, but he's getting sunburned and, like, going to the bathroom's a big pain, but, like, he's basically okay. And he's sort of looking at this as, like, you know what? Ultimately, maybe this is exactly what I needed to be able to go out here and have this experience. Like, this is my way of getting closer to God, of becoming more spiritual. I needed to, like, have all distractions removed. It's like, me against the world. And so it's like these really poignant entries in his journal that are, like, not panicked. It's like finding meaning in suffering is really what he's doing. And then around, like, the fifth day where he's just stuck out there, now he's like, the. The journal entries sort of take a turn, and he's very hopeful that quickly people are going to realize he's not made the rendezvous because he's supposed to be back, what, four or five days in. And so it was the same day that he knew they'd expect him home. He's like, I really hope that his wife back home. He's got kids, too, are going to quickly realize something's wrong. But he doesn't have a way of knowing, and he knows that, like, okay, let's say they figure it out today that something's off. How long will it take to find me? He's thinking it's going to take a couple days. Like, Max, they know where I was going, roughly. But he's also like, I went pretty far off the beaten trail. But he's like. He's optimistic still. So a couple more days go by, and now he's able to still drink water. Not a lot, but he has enough that he's not going to die of thirst. He's basically out of food, which is more of, like, he's not dying yet, but it's very painful. And the sunburn is like. Like horrible. Like, he's got blisters now. Like, he's becoming pretty uncomfortable now. It's like every second is pretty torturous. And he begins to curse. God, he begins to curse, you know, everything he thought he held so sacred. Like, now life is really Turned in a way that doesn't feel deep. It feels like this. What's. Why is this being done to me? And then it's like 10, 10 days go by. 11 days go by. No one's found him. There was a search party. He, he didn't know this. Eventually it reaches the point where his handwriting is clearly degrading. And I want to say it's like 14 or 15 days in at this point. This is deep. He's been out there a while. And this is why I almost didn't tell the story. It's like, it's crazy even thinking about it. So this is like this devoted father of, like, relatively young kids. And his entries go from initially optimistic to a little panicked, to, like, what the fuck? To, like, degrading handwriting, to then, like, this just devastating calm where he's writing to his kids. He knows he's gonna die. Like, it's the end. And he's telling them all the things that he wishes he could have told them if he was alive to do it. He's, like, giving advice to his kids, and he's trying to remind them to, like, be strong and, like, that, you know, your dad loves you and that, like, like, this isn't your fault. And it's like, in his final moments, all he cares about is his kids and his wife, too. And it's reading those entries and just honestly, like, I, I, I can't really envision myself in that position, but in a, in a way, it's like you, it's universal. As soon as you, like, have a kid or not even, like, when you have someone you really care about, suddenly, like, being like, I'll never see them again. And, like, like, Dan had days of 100% knowing, like, I'm on the way out and I will never see my children again. I'll never see my wife again. And so his final entries are devastating. And then, as, of course, fate would have it, he dies. And, like, literally, according to the entries, it was, like, hours later he was found.
- [160:11]
Host
Oh, no.
- [160:13]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so, like, you know, I told that story actually, I actually put it to the side. I wasn't going to tell it at all. And truthfully, it's because I didn't think I could keep it together emotionally telling it, but in some ways, I. And this is. It's earlier we were talking about, like, how frustrating it is when things get demonetized and it might make the impression that it's all about that. It's more like there is a business to this. They're totally Totally is. Like, I do make decisions based on whether or not things can be monetized. Will it get clicks? Of course. That's part of it. That's part of, like, being relevant this long. But, like, that doesn't mean that I've lost sight of, like, the thing that really I do, which is I tell those types of stories. And I felt like I owed it to Dan and his family to tell that story, and I did. And there were loads of comments from people that knew Dan. And it was, like, amazing to see, like, the memories flowing in about Dan and his wife. And it was like this communal thing of people reminiscing about how wonderful he was. Yeah, I think that that one. Anything to do with kids has been a consistent, difficult one.
- [161:25]
Host
Put us in the room with the family, and you don't have to name any names or give any information, but I'd like to know what they said to you that you walked out of. Like, all right, I gotta make some changes.
- [161:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
What do you mean?
- [161:34]
Host
Like, I don't know. Were you always this focused on the victims?
- [161:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, yeah. So, like, how did it come to be that I do it this way?
- [161:45]
Host
Everyone knows you meet with the families.
- [161:47]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Not always. Not always. Not always.
- [161:49]
Host
But you do from.
- [161:50]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There's, like, real intention behind it. I would say, like, in terms of how many stories that make it to the air, that literally I spoke to the family with.
- [162:00]
Host
With.
- [162:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I wouldn't say it's a lot, but it's a meaningful amount, you know? And I would also say that it's not uncommon to have a video that goes out that ends up connecting with that family that turns into a relationship with our charity that turns into a long standing relationship with the entire entity in that family. And, like, we've seen that play out many times where, like, we have people that we support through the charity that it, like, started with their story that we got from public. Public information. We told it as ethically as we could, but it's all there, it's all public. And then that was what bridged the gap and connected us to them. But in terms of, like, why I tell a story the way I do, you know, you could make the case that it's because I'm trying to be ethical, and I think that's fair. I definitely am. But I would actually go to be. I told you, I'm pretty shamelessly honest about stuff. In the very beginning, when I was thinking about how do I structure stories to make them really interesting? Something that I naturally do. But I became much more conscious of it is if you really want people to pay attention to a story, I think it's important that you make aspects of the story relatable, no matter how unrelatable the story actually is. Is it relatable to the average person of what it's like to be a victim of a serial killer? Probably not.
- [163:23]
Host
Not.
- [163:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
But is it relatable to be someone who's scared about someone tapping on the glass or like the fear that someone's coming in their house? It is. And so in terms of like, purely a storytelling device, if you're telling a story about a serial killer, if you want the audience to really have an emotional connection to the story, you're far better off not going the route which most people do, at least sort of generally speaking, which is like, you take a perspective from like the killer's perspective or third person perspective where you're focused on like the violence or the gore or like the horrible thing that happened, because that is. That's what happened. Right. But a more powerful way in terms of just emotional connection to the story that. That I have found has been effective. Put people in the mind of the woman who's running down the hallway because something's behind her. How many of us have been scared even just running up our stairs from the basement because we think something's behind us? It's like a human fear. And so when you're thinking about how to make a story really land, and what I mean by that is to be like, emotionally resonant with people, make them feel like they're in the story. And you can't do it if you're like. And then Ted Bundy showed up and this is the horrible thing he did that. Then you're learning about something, you're not in it. And so I was telling stories naturally with like, I knew people were more invested if they could be in a story with you, you know, and so I took that approach naturally. And then I also realized that the types of stories I'm telling you, the people that don't get a lot of credit, or I should say the people that often are lost in the story are the victims. You know, it's like the blood and gore and like the tragedy is the thing that sort of makes the headlines, if at all. But like the victim themselves beyond being, oh, they were a wonderful person who died right. Beyond that, a lot of times they're sort of lost. And I have found inhabiting the victim or the. Sometimes we'll do it the other way around, but it's almost Always the victim. It leaves a mark on people. Sometimes if I've done a good job, it really leaves a mark. And I think from the lens, I think of the families and the victims and the people left behind, it just feels far more appropriate when they're hearing a story that's clearly designed to, like, elevate the person who the bad thing happened to, but not in a phony way. It's like you're learning about them. You're learning about what they were doing and potentially what they were thinking about and sort of what happened to them. And when the thing happens to them, they've. They've become relatable enough that the audience is like, that's. That's bad. Oh, my God, I can't even imagine. Versus, like, unnamed victim number three of a serial killer. It's like, yeah, that. That makes for documentary material, but it's far less emotionally impactful. So, effectively, from a storytelling, purely storytelling perspective, I have found, get the audience to feel something and they'll remember the story, you know, and oftentimes blood and gore feels like it might. You might think it's something. It's emotion, but I don't think it is. I think it's. It's just like. It's. It's. It's like fireworks.
- [166:19]
Host
It's abstract.
- [166:19]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. You know, and I do also. I. Maybe it's just the shame I've felt from being overseas or something, but I. I'm so cognizant of the fact that these are real people in the stories. Not every story is a death or tragedy, but it usually is. And I'm very aware of that. And I don't hide from that.
- [166:43]
Host
That's an invasive technique and effective, and it definitely connects the audience. And it just happens to be ethical. Just the same way that you don't really name the killers or idolize the killers kind of until the end. That's very ethical, but it also is. Is better storytelling because the fear becomes nameless. Now, what happens if the story's better by naming the killer? Do you make that move or do you stay ethical?
- [167:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Truthfully, the way we. Literally every story, we do this. So this is like, there isn't one that we didn't do this. So I can't even think of one where we broke the mold. We will not give something away unless it's practically required. Like, if there's a story that literally requires it. Like, a good example would be. And it's one of the very few times we did something like this. Like, I told a story about 911 from the perspective of someone who was in the building when it went down. I interviewed him. The whole thing, I couldn't disguise that this was 9 11, you know what I mean? But like we have done stories that are covered extensively and we're not trying to trick people. But if you tell the story the way that I've just sort of laid out, a lot of times it you don't know what that story is going to be until at the end it's sort of revealed what it is. Like one of my. One of my favorite little short stories that is about a very well known person. It starts with this couple. This is back like the 1970s. There's this couple that goes on a date out in Utah. It's first date. They don't know each other really at all. And they go to this like Waffle House or something equivalent. And they're having this like totally lame, no chemistry date. Like it's just not going well. And the guy who's not a guy who would do this normally, he's like realizing at the end of the date, like, this is going nowhere. I'm never gonna see this girl again. And he was a big hiker, he love to hike. And sort of on a whim at the end of this date where they're like, all right, all right, time to go. He's like, hey, do you want to go on a hike with me right now? And she's like, what? Like, what do you mean? Like, it's like 8 o' clock at night. Like, what do you mean hike right now? Like what? But she's like intrigued, sure. Oh, okay. They're doing something new here. And he's like, yeah, there's a canyon that I love to go hiking in. It's like Provo Canyon. It's right over there. It's like not far from here. There's a little pull out, quick walk, it's beautiful. Go up there, come out and be awesome. She's like, you know what? All right, let's do it, let's go. And so suddenly the date has gone from being sort of lame to being kind of exciting. And so they leave the Waffle House, they hop in his car and they drive over the parking lot and they're like giddy like, oh, this is so cool. And they get out and they're holding hands now and they're like, they're walking into the, the forest. It's a totally. Well, it's a trail. Like, it's a trail they're on and there's nobody else out here. And they're walking along. And they would. They would later say this to each other, but at the time they didn't say this. They're walking along, everything's exciting. But they get into the tree line and they're sort of. They're leaving the comforts of the street lights and they're going off into the forest. And as they get deeper and deeper into the forest, there's very, very good illumination from the moon. So it's not like totally pitch black black. As they get deeper and deeper into the woods, like, the sense of dread sort of washes over both of them. And they didn't articulate it to either. They. Neither of them said this. This is only in retrospect. They realized they both had this feeling. They're both getting the sense of dread. And they began, like, sort of white knuckling, like, grabbing each other's hand a little harder, walking a little faster. The giddiness is a little bit gone now. They're like, walking with a purpose just to, like, get to the turnaround point and just get out of here. It's a little. A little spooked. But they don't know each other well enough to like, really even talk. They like, what the fuck are we even doing out here? Sort of thing. And so they reach this point of the trail that again, it's a. It's a trail. It's not. You're not off in the. You're like on a trail. But the. The trees were pretty dense over the. Over the top. It was a section that was pretty dark, even though the. The illume is pretty good. And they're like, silently now, speed walking along this trail. And then at some point, the guy, he steps on something that he describes as feeling soft, just soft. And he just stops. And the girl who's next to him, she doesn't step on anything, but she sees him stop, and she stops instinctively because remember, she's on edge. They're both on edge. And like, without any hesitation, without saying a word, they both just turned around, still hand in hand, and they fucking speed walked out of there. Just walked out of there. Just really like, just going, nope.
- [171:34]
Host
Boom.
- [171:34]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
They get back to the car, they drive home. As they're driving home, like, man, like, geez. Okay, that was fun. Wow. Crazy. And so they have this date. They never really talk about what happened out in the. In the trail. They actually would get married, these two.
- [171:47]
Host
Of course.
- [171:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Of course they get married. That's how. How I met your mother. Like, this is great. So they get married, years go by, years go by, and one day they're at home and the, the wife is like, she has the news on and I forget who was where, but like, one of them is in the kitchen, like making food, and the other is like watching tv or it's like sort of mindlessly watching tv. And at some point the one in the kitchen hears the other calling out like, hey, you gotta, you gotta come see this. And there's an interview that's playing on TV with this criminal, this death row inmate who's giving this tell all interview. And it's effectively on the eve, if you will, of their execution. And it's sort of like this no holds barred, sort of like being upfront about what they've done to a degree. And at some point this, this interview, which was like, really like the reason they had been called over is like, this is like powerful stuff, right? At one point the interview, interviewer asked this, the person like, before you were caught, before you obviously got caught, did you ever almost get caught? Like, what was the closest you came to getting to being captured before you really were? And the guy's like, yeah, there's one time in particular. I was out in Provo Canyon and I just killed a girl. And I was dragging her across a trail to cover, and this couple comes speeding around the corner and the guy stepped on her. And I was getting ready to kill them, but for some reason they didn't look down, they didn't say anything. They just turned around and they left. It was Ted Bundy. Holy. The prolific serial killer Ted Bundy. And he, they'd stepped on one of his victims bodies. So like, that's an example of a story that like, it sort of works because it's Ted Bundy and you'd only say it at the end. And I mean, like, that's a story that like, I, I tried to get like all the substantiating details and like, to be honest, like, I think there's, there's a story that exists where this happened. Like, exactly how it happened, I don't know. But this is their rendition of what's happened. And it's a, it's a great, it's a great story. And like.
- [173:58]
Host
Can I put you on the spot?
- [173:59]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, please.
- [174:00]
Host
I mean, because that's a master class you just did. I saw that class in the art of storytelling for Audible.
- [174:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That, that class. What do you mean?
- [174:07]
Host
That, that Ted Bundy. I don't want to give it away because it's so Good.
- [174:11]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [174:11]
Host
This is something you did with Evan, like a while ago. Long time ago. Yeah. Can you do another one that maybe. We don't know?
- [174:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, look, another story with a twist. Have you heard the.
- [174:23]
Host
Or maybe something from the book that no one's ever heard?
- [174:25]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Those ones are not. Actually. I have a story that maybe is not as great as a twist, but as a fucking great story.
- [174:32]
Host
Do it.
- [174:33]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Great story. And it's actually one that I think it's on YouTube, but it's one of those deep cuts that I don't think I did a great job telling it on YouTube. I really don't, because I think that, that it's. Here it is. All right. So in it was March 2, 2006, there's this police officer, Sergio Pachetta is his name. And he was a police officer out in rural Argentina, in this part of rural Argentina called La Pampa. And I think he was part of a police department that was pretty small. But one of their main issues in the area was poaching. In particular, there was this intersection called Las Cruces de las Canas. And it was like this known just four way intersection, sort of in the middle of nowhere, in a place that's sort of the middle of nowhere, where there was these like little batches of forests, if you will, little crops of trees where these exotic birds and monkeys and like big cats would live. And then. And poachers would go out there late at night and they would, they would, you know, capture the animals and poach. And so it was not unusual for Sergio to be out there on his motorcycle, putzing along, you know, this area in La Pampa, Las Cruces de la Cana, looking for poachers. And it was usually pretty easy to find him. Like they honestly were pretty brash about it. They would just do it late at night, there's nobody out there. They just roll up in cars and just like go set their traps or whatever. And Sergio is not a veteran by any means, but he's been doing this a while. And so on March 2, 2006, he's out on the road on his motorcycle and he's driving along and it's been a sort of nothing night. He hasn't seen any poachers. And as he's nearing for like the 10th time that night, because he's sort of doing a loop where he would always pass by that intersection de las Canas. He's coming down the road and you got a picture. It's sort of a beautiful. It's very. It's very middle of nowhere vibes. But it's, it's, it's actually so La Pampa is known for its just unbelievable, like mountain ranges and like cowboy culture. It's like, it's like the Wild west sort of. It's like this beautiful scenery. And really as you're driving, other than the little, little splotches of forest, it's sort of like barren, but sort of beautiful. He's driving along, there's no street lights, just some moonlight. And he's looking way down the road at this intersection up ahead that again is like several football fields away. And he like looks down for a second for no reason. He just like looks down at his handlebars and he looks back up and he sees there's a car that sort of suddenly is. The brake lights are on. It's way off in the distance, but it's clearly coming to a stop at the intersection. That is the sort of troubled area given what time it is, given how suddenly they showed up. He's thinking they must have just pulled out. Like, it's too, it's too odd that it would be right now, Like, I don't know. And so he's far enough back that he's like, I'm going to slow roll and sort of like creep up and see what they're doing. So he needs them to be doing poaching to get them in trouble. And so he's, he's like putzing along, still keeping his distance, and he sees the car, the brake lights come off again, or the red lights sort of disappear for a second and it starts to roll forward and like suddenly the car veers to the right. This is again, it's far enough off. He can clearly see it happening, but he doesn't really know what's. What they're doing. They veer right, and they appear to just drive into the forest that's right next to this intersection. Forest is a bad description of it. If you look at pictures online, it's more like a crops of trees, but it's thick enough that you can't see into it. Right. So the car is like vanished. And Sergio's like poachers. I mean, what they're doing is a little aggressive because you're driving your car like into the forest, you're going to scare away a lot of the animals. But like, okay, these got to be poachers. Poachers. And so he's not thinking there's anything strange about this other than I'm about to go catch some poachers. And so he, he speeds up down the road. Not, not too bad. He doesn't want to totally give away his position and like, you know, floor it. But he goes down and he gets to the intersection. And when he gets to the intersection, he starts looking just past, like onto the next segment of road because it's very quickly after the intersection, they veered off from where he was, and he starts looking for tire tracks to see where they enter, entered the forest because he can't see the car. The car's gone. And so he's like, he goes past the four way and he pulls his bike over to the side of the road and he gets off. He doesn't turn his flashlight on or call out because he's still sort of trying to keep a low profile. He can't hear anything. All he hears is there are these birds that are really unique in the area called like song jars or like night jars. They're called night jars and they have a really unique sound. And so there's like this humming of like cicadas and night jars. It's like the night ambiance, but there's no people sounds, there's no vehicle sounds, and there's no tracks on the ground. There's. There's no sign that any car was here at all. And Sergio's like, okay, like, obviously there's an explanation for this. You know, it's. It's dark, I can't really see too well. So he's like, okay, there's definitely poachers. They're probably just hiding from me now. And so he pulls out his radio and he calls in for backup. He's like, hey, here's where I am. Unsurprisingly, there's got to be a poacher out here, here. But, you know, backup could be quite a bit of ways. And who knows is going to show up. And he's not like that scared of this. He's like, I need to go in there and confront these guys, you know, so he draws his gun and he begins walking off the road sort of broadly into this forest where he believes the, the car has driven off to. So into the forest he goes. So he goes in the forest and like minutes later, as far as we can tell, and this is a highly documented story, like, easy to look up. All the information's there, police reports, you name it, this is considered, well, we'll keep going. At the same time, he wanders off into this forest. One of his, I think it's his friends, but it's another Cop who works with Sergio. He's at home. He's nowhere near Crusade de las Canas. He's home, he's about to go to bed, and his cell phone rings, and he sees it's Sergio go calling. And, like, you know, it's not his close friend, but it's someone he would pick up the phone for any time of the day. Answers the phone, and it's Sergio. And the guy's like, hey, what's going on? And all Sergio says, and he says, he says it twice is, come to Las Canas. You know what to do. And the guy's like, what? He's like, come to Las Canas. You know what to do. And then he hung up. And so the friend is like, what? What did. What? Like, he's trying to put together what he could mean. He knows that area is known for poachers. So, like, I guess that could be. Why are you calling me like I'm off duty like this? It's a weird. It's a weird thing. Weird enough that the friend is like, you know what? I feel like I gotta call this in. This is weird. And so he calls, like, headquarters and says, hey, you know, I. I know Sergio's on patrol. I think he's on patrol. He just called him. This weird thing about Las Canas, he's. Maybe he's got poachers or something. But I'm sort of worried about him, and I just want to make sure that you guys know about this. Maybe you should go check on him. And dispatch is like, actually, we're worried about him because he called us and said, I need backup because there's apparently poachers in the area. The officers have just arrived on scene, and they found his bike, but they haven't found him. And so the three officers that the backup up, they're there and they find his bike, it's on the side of the road. All they were told is that he had called in poachers and that they needed, you know, whatever help or something. And so now they have their flashlights out. They're not trying to be secretive. They're. They're scouring the area near the bike. And there's quite a. Quite a decent margin from the road. Like, there's a sloping down of, like, grass and scree. And then there's like, the. The forest where, like, presumably the poachers could be. And no one's gone in there other than. Than Sergio, but they don't know he's gone in there. And so they're looking and they're like, what in the world is going on here? Like, there's nowhere else for him to be really beyond this forest. And so they, they, they do. So let me back it up, make sure I get this detail right. They start scouring the area, and then they find on the side of the road, there's, like this little glint of. Of, like, metal. It's the only thing they find. There's the bike. There's no tire tracks. There's no Sergio. They find, like, metal in the side of the road. They go over and they look at it and they discover it is Sergio's gun and it's his radio. But they've been disassembled to their component parts, which, like, you know, anyone could do that. It isn't like they've been shattered. They've been disassembled, and they're just, like, sitting on the side of the road. And that's it. Okay, so that's. I remember. I wanted to make sure I had that right. So that's all they find. And so at this point, when they discover the radio combined with the, the call from the friend and like, all of this, they're like, something's wrong. Something's wrong with Sergio. We don't know where he is. And so before they go into the forest, they're like, we need to legitimately treat this. Like, there's like a big emergency here. Let's call in more reinforcements. Let's really search the area. And so this huge search party that night is. Is set up, like, very quickly, and they, they go into the forest again. They don't really know. They definitely don't know he went in the forest. They don't know really anything. All they know is, like, he called it in. So they're looking everywhere. They can't find him. They cannot find him. And it starts like pouring rain, and they're, like, staying out there. They don't care. They're looking for their partner. They can't find him. So all night there's this big effort in this relatively small area, and other than the crops of trees, there's nowhere else to go, and Sergio's nowhere to be found. There's no poachers. There's no vehicle. There's nothing. Nothing. Disassembled, gun, bike, the various weird radio calls. That's it. The next day. It's now been like 18 hours since Sergio called in. Hey, I need backup. I believe there's poachers. There's. This farmer has no fucking clue what's going on with Sergio or anything, he's totally disconnected. He's 12 miles away. He's at his land. And he walked down to the road, like his long driveway connection to the road. And he looks down the road and he sees there's someone sitting on the side of the road, and they're sitting on the ground, and there's no vehicle nearby. This is rural Argentina. This is not normal. And so the farmer, he walks over and it's been pouring rain all night, so it's like sloppy and wet out. He's like, what is this person doing out here? And he makes his way over to this person, and he discovers it's a police officer who's sitting in the fetal position on the ground. Dry. Dry as a bone. Like, whatever the expression is. He's completely dry, and he's sort of like rocking back and forth. And he looks very distraught. Like, immediately, it's obvious something's wrong. And the farmer asked him, like, who are you? What are you doing here? Like, what's going on? And he didn't say anything. And so the farmer was like, something's off. Calls the authorities. The police show up, and they're like, oh, my God, it's Sergio. And Sergio, when he looked up, like, there was paramedics that showed up, and he didn't really react. And then he saw his boss, who he was very close with. And when his boss got there, Sergio got up and rushed over to him and just hugged him and began weeping and just sat there weeping on his shoulder for, like, several minutes. And everyone's like, what is going on? So Sergio doesn't say anything to anybody. They're asking him, like, what are you doing here? We've been looking for you. Like, what happened? And he's saying nothing. Like, he's not. It's clear he wants to say something, but he's saying nothing. He's just, like, shell shocked. And so they bring him to the hospital. They're like, let's just focus on making sure he's okay. They're assuming that at this point he's been kidnapped by the poachers and he's been dropped off here. He's likely been tortured. There are definitely going to be things wrong with him, like, this guy needs a medical evaluation. So they bring him to the hospital, and at first he's, like, sort of unwilling to be touched. But then eventually he sort of allows them to do an exam, and they check him top to bottom, and he's physically fine. You know, he's actually. He turned out he was hydrated. He was. He was fed, he was. He was healthy. The only odd thing is he had these not severe but pronounced burns on the underside of his feet that were, like, in his boot. Like he had burned feet. But other than that, you know, he was fine. And so for a while, like. Like the police and the nurses and the doctors, they're just like, you know, whenever you're ready, like, tell us, you know, what happened to you because, like, we really can't put this together. It doesn't make any sense. Eventually he would. He would. He would begin to tell his story. And it is today regarded, at least in Argentinian paranormal lore. This is considered one of the most credible accounts of paranormal activity that exists. And you can look it up for yourself. So Sergio, who would retire specifically because of what he saw this night, he said he was driving down, he saw the car up ahead, called it in. Poachers, right? And he said, I pulled up, I didn't see him. You know, I didn't see tire tracks, whatever. And so I called in back up, and I drew my gun and I walked into the forest. And as soon as I'm in the forest, it was like. Like eerie, like, quiet. It's so loud normally, with all the insects and the bugs and the nightjar birds and everything. It's, like, eerie and quiet, and it's, like, very dense in this little pocket of trees. And he's moving forward and he's like. As I'm walking, I'm really aware of the fact that it doesn't make sense that a car would have plowed in here and vanished. Like, there'd be signs of it and there's not. But then all of a sudden, he looks up ahead and he thinks he sees something that might represent, like, metal, like a car somewhere in the distance. So he, like, wills himself, despite feeling sort of uneasy, to keep going. And he gets, like, you know, well into the crops of trees to. Only to discover that, like, oh, it's nothing. But as he's standing effectively in the middle of the trees, he said that I heard something behind me, and it's. It's dark. And he turns around and there are these two sets of glowing red eyes that are looking back at him in the forest. And they're, like, looking at him in such a way that it's clear they're moving towards him. Like, he can tell that there are these eyes that are set. They're moving in his direction. And he said he immediately felt this pressure in his chest, that it was so powerful that he. Like, he Couldn't speak, he couldn't move. And he's just stuck there staring. And he said these two figures emerged, like, from the shadows, like from the moonlight, that these are. These gray, slender figures that are walking like a person, bipedal. And they got right up in front of him. And he said that I just immediately felt like my chest was going to cave in. And it was just. It was so clear that these. These figures with red eyes are in control of me. I can't control myself anymore. And sure enough, he said that he felt himself suddenly begin to stiffen up. And he's just staring at these eyes. And he began bending over backwards, like, in a grotesque way, until he was folded halfway over backwards, not like broken back, but fully contorted. And then he turned and he's. He's like, I wasn't doing it. And I began walking in reverse, bent over backwards, as he's staring at these two figures, as they sort of corralled him, as he backtracked back onto the road. And the whole time he's looking up at these two looming figures with the red eyes that are just not saying anything, moving towards him. He goes out to the road, and he's still bent over. And he said he felt his hands come out of his, like, position he's in. And he reached down, he pulls his. His gun, which I think at that point he had reholstered. And he disassembles his gun, drops it to the ground, disassembles his radio, drops it to the ground. And then after that, he was like. Suddenly I was standing back up again. I'm staring at these two figures, and they're like, maybe in between doing something to me, and I left that a key detail, which I'll fill in now, but it's okay. He's like, I took a run for it. I just started running back into the forest, backpedal back, backing up very quickly. When they did the search for Sergio, they found a single set of footprints that started somewhere in the tree line. And they followed them, and it went out to the back of the crops of trees, and then it carried off into this field. There was a crop, a field of crops off in the distance. And they found the footsteps. They went out, like, a mile into this. This field, but the footsteps, they were like, clearly human footsteps. And they began getting further and further spaced apart. At first, this is during the night of the search, when they can't find him. They found these footsteps that were, like, three feet apart. Five. Five feet apart, like, so far. Apart at certain points that they're like, we must be missing footprints. Like it didn't it, it looked like he was sprinting and leaping, right? But then eventually it reaches the edge of this, this field, this corn field or whatever crop it was, and there's one final right footprint in the ground and then nothing beyond it. So that's, that's, that's the other detail that they had of where the fuck is Sergio? Right? So now he's telling his story. He's like, I'm out there, I've disassembled the gun and the radio and I made a run for it. And as soon as I ran, I like jumped practically to get into the forest, to get out of the tree, to have them not see me. And as soon as I jumped, I felt like I was going to hit the ground, but I didn't. It's like I stopped and levitated over the ground and then I lost control of my body again. I was put back up into an upright position and as soon as my feet touch the ground, I start running and then suddenly I'm being thrown into the air and like I'm crashing down. It's like this. He knew the, the red eyed beings were chucking him into the air over and over. And he said he made it out to the back of the crops of trees and he actually got a pretty decent stretch of running. Like he's okay, they're not going to do it anymore. They're going to stop chucking me in the air with their mind powers, right? And he said I began like taking a stride and they'd like push me in the air. And that's what started to account for these gaps. It was like they were chucking him an actual 5 or 10ft with each step he took. And he'd come crashing back down. He's just sprinting along. But at a certain point when he neared the edge of this, this cornfield, he was so exhausted and he knew like, they have full control over me. Like I don't know what they're going to do to me, but I can't, I can't combat whatever it is they are and what they're doing. And so he just stopped. He just stopped. And he knows they're behind him because they've been behind him. He can feel their presence. And he's run off now into the back of this cornfield and he finally just turns around to like confront whatever or whoever this is. And he turns around and there's nothing there. And for a second he's like, where are they? And then he, like, feels something behind him and he turns back around. And now it's like he's on the edge of the world. As if the world disappears beyond where he's standing thing. It's like a cliff and just a black void where the edge of this field had been, like the world vanished in front of him. And in the void in front of him now are these two sets of red eyes. And he felt himself being pulled into the void. And then he has no memory. And then he woke up on the side of the road 18 hours later. And to this day, there are two things about this that are crazy. One is they did an extensive. Because it was actually pretty humiliating for the police force when the story came out, because Sergio was like, yeah, that's what happened. Like, aliens are throwing me around, you know, like, that was the official report. And it was like this big deal. And it was sort of humiliating for the local cops. And the stupid story about, like, how aliens did this to this guy. Right. They're like, obviously you got duped by poachers was sort of the running theme.
- [193:56]
Host
Sure.
- [193:57]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so they ran as extensive of an investigation as they could, really, on Sergio, like, trying to catch him and misrepresenting what happened. And there's just, just he stuck to the story. They went out there. I mean, they couldn't find really any details that either corroborated or. Or rejected it, but they couldn't find a better explanation. And then more than that, that particular set of trees off of the Cruise de las Canas intersection, historically, for years, tourists, authorities have pointed out there are strange lights, red lights in particular, that are constantly seen in that forest, that are often accompanied with silence inside of the forest. And to this day, that's known as like a hotbed of paranormal activity. And people still report seeing strange lights, red lights in those trees. And if you look at the image of that, little crops of trees, the fact that it's like this one, like sort of little crops of trees in the middle of fucking nowhere. And the idea that, like some crazy shit's happening in there, it's like terrifying.
- [194:57]
Host
Yeah.
- [194:58]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
So it's a good story.
- [194:58]
Host
It is a good story. Do you believe Sergio?
- [195:01]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I believe that Sergio is telling the truth of whatever he thinks experience. So that. That's the thing is, like, I am. I would say I'm far closer to like a full sin believer than I am a skeptic. And it's really easy to say as much because it's like, okay, let Me get this straight. So we're on planet Earth that's in this ungodly big universe, and we're it. There's nothing else. We know all the stuff. Give me a break.
- [195:25]
Host
We.
- [195:26]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. Like, so. So like just logically, that's impossible to me. The idea that there isn't stuff beyond our comprehension, there aren't entities beyond our, our powers and our under like that. To me, that's crazy. And would be devastatingly depressing if that were true. And so I'd rather believe there's more out there. But I think that with Sergio, if you just like, look up his account, like, it's a guy who's grappling with, like, I don't know what happened. This is the best. This is my limited human understanding of what happened to me, and I don't know what happened to me.
- [196:01]
Host
I mean, the way you tell it is so good. It's a masterclass in withholding and definitely good for watch time. So when I tell an urban legend or a mystery, the first two acts, I tell the story as it's true. And then my third act is break it down. Yeah, what did I find out? And I can see on my charts, people just. When I say, but is it true? People just drop off. They're like, I'm out. They don't want to hear it. And I hear it in the comments. You ruin the story. You know, you should do it. Mr. Baldman does. You know, we're just here for the fun.
- [196:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [196:30]
Host
Am I making a mistake?
- [196:32]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Depends. Because, like, there's, there's two ways to look at it. Like, if you are looking at it from the perspective of your job is ultimately if, if you believe your job is to be entertaining, probably shouldn't do that, because what you've done is the first two acts, you're allowing them to suspend their disbelief, and they want that. And actually, I have a question for you that's going to follow this.
- [196:58]
Host
Wait, this is in your show.
- [197:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I wanted to ask you this. Like, they are suspending their disbelief or they're, they're just. Or they choose to believe whatever it is, but it's like they want that. And so even if they fully, wholeheartedly agree with any of the, the dissenting opinions or whatever in the third act, they don't want that because it hurts the feeling they get about it. Right. And so my question, and this is a broad question, it's like there are millions and millions of people that tune into you and tune into me and other people that tell stories like this, that are smart, logical, rational people. Why are they drawn to things like this? And it's, it's not a gotcha. Like, think about it. I would venture my answer would be people like to be scared in a safe environment and the unknown is scary. And it's cool to think that there's something else out there and it's like safe and controlled. But there might even be something more to it. Like it's maybe the thrill of like, I don't know, like the idea that there are things out there that are scarier, stronger, bigger. Like, I don't know. I think that because I don't think paranormal is often tied to, tied to good stuff. It's tied to like scary stuff. It's tied to like dark.
- [198:14]
Host
Well, you're the philosopher. What, what? Not the mechanics of the roller coaster. Why, but what's the psychology? Why do we need. Because we need it.
- [198:24]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, well, you know, I always. Something that was profound that I learned that is so simple and maybe that's the most, the most profound things are often simple.
- [198:33]
Host
They are.
- [198:35]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We only understand. This is what someone told us.
- [198:38]
Host
Me.
- [198:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
We only understand things in terms of like relatives, for example. Like, I really only actually know what hot is because I've experienced cold and vice versa. I only really know what like tall is because I've seen short. You get the idea. Everything's like in contrast. Somebody once was in one of my philosophy classes was talking about this idea that like, we don't even realize how limiting that really is. Like, like, you know, there are. What it is entirely possible, given the way that humans only understand things based on like clear contrasts, that there could be. Let's just be cliche about it. Aliens amongst us that you wouldn't actually be able to recognize as anything because they don't contrast with what you know. It's like your brain wouldn't necessarily be able to interpret them because there isn't the natural contrast for it. Like we, we as humans are so like literally known to be egocentric. Everything we do is sort of like self interested to some degree. And like Neil Degrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist, he gives this amazing thought experiment that sort of, it touches on this element of humanity that is often overlooked, which is like, okay, so let's talk about like the, the likelihood of there being life outside of Earth. Right?
- [199:56]
Host
Right.
- [199:57]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And he's like, okay, so on Earth right now, you know, humans have DNA, you know, and he's much more poignant and more accurate. What he was, what he says. But I'll I'll give the spirit of it. He's sort of like, there's a hundred pieces of DNA, let's say, that make up a human DNA strand. And like that. That. Those hundred pieces, and that's not the right number, but those hundred pieces, that's what makes us human. You got to have all 100.
- [200:19]
Host
Boom. That's.
- [200:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
That's. That's a human. He's like, well, what's our. What's our closest? And just purely in terms of DNA. And he's like, it's probably the chimpanzee. And they have like. And he actually had the numbers. It was like, 97. They got 97. They don't got 100. They got 97, though. They're really close. And, like, we can see that. We know that there's. There's closeness there. They're, like, similar to the. To us in the way they move. There's like a similar, like, family bond there. They even kind of look like us. And he goes, what do we do with chimpanzees? What do humans do with chimpanzees? Science, experiments, zoos. He's like, when was the last time? You're like, you know what I really want? I want to go talk to a chimpanzee. I want to go learn about chimpanzee. I mean, maybe you do that through a documentary, but it's like we mistreat them because they're not human.
- [201:05]
Host
Right, Right.
- [201:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And those are the. Those are the high ones. He goes, what about. What about like an ant or like a worm? Forget, like, interactions with them. Their DNA is like, you know, 90 versus our hundred. He's like, when was the last time you're walking down the street and you're like, oh, there's an earthworm. Let me try to chat with this earthworm. No, you might step on the earthworm and not even know. He's like, when we as humans think about what could be in terms of life outside of planet Earth, right? He's like, we automatically sort of act like they'd be like us, you know? Know, it'd be just like us. I mean, something similar, right? Maybe. Maybe that could totally be true. Right? But what if we're the fucking worm?
- [201:50]
Host
Yeah.
- [201:51]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
What if literally they don't give a shit about us? That they don't. It wouldn't even register.
- [201:56]
Host
That makes more sense to me, you know?
- [201:58]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And it's like, oh, wow. We sort of have come at this like, well, if there's any life out there, it will be nearly identical, probably Worse, you know, because we're pretty good and like, we'll be able to talk. They might speak like some form of Spanish or something, but. Well, I'm being obtuse about it, but it's like there is an inherent human bias towards. We'd know what they are. We could sort of see what they are and we'd get it. What if you can't? What if you lack the capacity because you're so low on the totem pole to even see them for what they are and that they don't even register as. What if you're lower than a worm? So it's just. It's an interesting way to look at the world. It's depressing in a way.
- [202:36]
Host
It is. I had Daniel Weitz in here who, who was a physicist. He's a physicist at cern.
- [202:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, man. Jesus.
- [202:42]
Host
Yeah, it's like heavy prep week. So we were talking about, you know, what would aliens look like? It's kind of his specialty. He said, what if the aliens get here and they don't even do math anymore? I'm like, what? He's like, maybe they don't even have math. Maybe they're never discovered. Maybe they don't need it. Yeah, it's because we look at everything through this lens. But the odds are, are probably not. It's probably nothing like us.
- [203:07]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, I. I am fascinated with like, the. What is it? The pale blue dot, the Carl Sagan. It's like I find myself. And this is probably what drew me to philosophy in the first place. I. I have always been so deeply fascinated by. It's so like the unknown is sort of the catch all. But it's like, like I think about this a lot right now. Forget, like, the limitations of like, time and space, time and our ability. Forget. Just think about this purely simplistically independent of whether or not we'll ever be able to verify that there is or is not other metropolises on alien planets off in the universe somewhere. It doesn't matter if you can verify it or not. It doesn't matter if it exists, if it truly exists or not. But let. Let's assume for a second that it does in some capacity. Maybe we wouldn't be able to. To see it for ourselves, but it. Let's pretend it exists somehow, some way out there right. Right this second again, putting aside the limitations of time and all that right now, like whatever's out there is living their lives in their. In their spaces, doing their things. There's a. There's a word that I Wish I had right now that I actually experienced a lot when I was in Peru. I would say, like, be wandering the streets of Peru. This one, I was actually less fucked up from substance. I was more sober, like, having these sober walks. And I would look in the window at night because the windows for, like, the family rooms were usually right at the front of the house. And you could, like, see people having dinner. And I would look in these homes. It was so creepy of me. But you'd see these people that are, like, laughing and, like, having their. Their dinner or they're arguing or whatever it is. And, like, it's so foreign, but it's right there, there. And there's a word for the sudden realization that other people have just as full lives as you do that you don't ever see or have access to. Like, they're everywhere. Like, just because you don't know Martha, who lives in Kansas right now, it doesn't. Doesn't change that she has a full life that matters as much to her as your life matters to you. And so I think about that and apply it to the distant, like, alien species. And it's like, that is so intense to think that there could be other species, other, like, aliens that are just simply living in whatever capacity they do right now. And it's, like, both infuriating and just infinitely intriguing that we probably won't ever know.
- [205:34]
Host
Us, our crew, we won't ever know. No.
- [205:37]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
At least not the way we believe we will know. And so I find that to be really interesting. I am so drawn to the. Like, there's the other thought experiment that sort of touches on this, which is like. And this is. This is a famous one. I forget the name of it. It's something like somebody's arrow. And it's like, okay, pretend this is to get you to think about the scope and size of the universe. Imagine you have this arrow and you fire it. And it'll travel, you know, infinitely in any direction I'm sure you're familiar. And, like, nothing can stop it. It'll go. It'll go through the Earth, it'll go through black holes. Does. Nothing can stop it. So you shoot this arrow. And basically, you know, the Professor's like, you gotta. You gotta just be simple about it. You got to choose one or the other other. Does the arrow, you know, whatever direction you fire it, you know, does it at some point reach a wall where there's just nothing beyond it? Because that's the edge of existence, right? Because that would be the one thing that would Stop it. Like nothingness, right? Does it reach an end point where there's literally nothing, or does it go on forever? Which would, you know, that's the infinite universe theory. And it's like sort of a simple thing to think about at first. And you know, I'm like, okay, it probably goes on infinitely, I guess, you know, but then it's like, I don't know. And he's like, okay, well how many people think that it hits some sort of, you know, wall, so to speak? It doesn't matter what direction, doesn't matter. It could be billions of light years away. But it hits some wall, right? He's like, okay, there's a problem with that because as humans going back to the whole contrast and understanding things, he goes, if you, if it hits this wall, so to speak, you're implying that there's nothingness beyond it because it's not really a wall. It's like it's the end of existence. Existence. Well, imagine that there's literally a wall there, whether you see it or not. As a human, based on our lived experience, we have to naturally ask the question, what is on the other side of the wall? And you're like, okay, well don't worry, it's nothingness. Problem solved. Well then the question define nothingness, what is it? Well, it's a void. Nope, that's something. Can't be that. Okay, it's blackness. Not can't be that. It's clear. Any example we give doesn't work because we only understand things that exist. We don't understand that the only, the only thing we know that didn't exist, that we sort of know is our pre existence. I know I didn't exist before, before I existed, but I don't, I don't have any feelings with it. No, but it's the closest thing to nothingness that I, I have. And so we can't conceptualize of there not being something on the other side of that wall. We can't do it as humans. We can't do it. Do it. And so the, the, the natural next step is to say, okay, well, you know, if I can't do that, then it must mean that it's the, the al. The alternate, which is the arrow just continues. The universe is infinite. But then that implies that in any. In order for the universe to be infinite, it means everything in the universe has to be duplicated and iterated upon an infinite number of times, which is like string theory, I think. And it's like that means there's an infinite Number of you and I having this conversation. But, like, you know, this chord is pink, like, and that's a different Earth. Everything else is the same. And it's like, it opens up all these lines of like, wait a minute. Like we don't really understand stuff. We don't really get what's out there at all. It's like so rudimentary, but it feels like we should know and we don't. I love that. And it frustrates me and I'm constantly drawn to it.
- [208:49]
Host
I love that too. You know, ask a physicist or ask someone who's religious what happened before the big bang. And you get weird answers, man. Like, it just, it just happens. In what? Well, it doesn't work like that. When I hear your stories, I see like Robert Stack in a trench coat. I see Art Bell in the middle of the night. Paul Harvey.
- [209:08]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [209:09]
Host
Legends always saved us to the other side of the break for the rest of the story. Who are your artistic inspirations? And don't say Evan Allen.
- [209:19]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
My sister, Evan Allen. You know what's funny is I always, I always want to, want to reference him and I always forget his name. And that suggests that I don't know him, that he's a Dateline host, gray haired guy and I'm, I can't believe I always, I should always have his name on hand. But anytime I, I find myself watching Datelines with this, I need to look him up.
- [209:43]
Host
His comments are exploding right now. I know.
- [209:47]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Anyways, there's a Dateline host, like, real wrinkled face, gray hair guy. He's just a brilliant storyteller. Like truly just brilliant. Like, you listen to him and you're like, oh my. Any, anything you talk about, I'm drawn in. I obviously forget his name. That's great.
- [210:04]
Host
What's so great about him?
- [210:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There is a calming feature to his voice.
- [210:10]
Host
Yeah, you do that.
- [210:12]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I find that when I listen to him. Not that other people have grading voices. I think a lot of people have. Voices are fine for storytelling. But there's something about his that's. It doesn't even lull you into like a stupor. It's more like I just like listening to him and he's just really, really good at like understanding the beats. And like, you really like he, unlike the other hosts who are great. Dateline, obviously is great host. He really leans in when it's time to deliver a beat. And I think that one of the things that I tell people, if I'm talking to a pure, like, regular person, that's like, what, how do you tell a good story?
- [210:52]
Host
Right.
- [210:52]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I probably wouldn't get into like the technicalities around what POV I use or like how to structure it. It would be like a really good story. Oftentimes comes down to, like, how committed the storyteller is to delivering that story.
- [211:05]
Host
That's right.
- [211:06]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You know, it's like you can have sort of bad material, but if you're really committed to the bit and you deliver it with pizzazz and charisma, you can, you can, you can really command an audience. Audience. And I find that anonymous gray haired, amazing host from, from Dateline, who now. It's killing me. I don't know his name was so good at, is so good at it. But I mean, this is one that is, you know, I, I was around incredible speakers, namely my father. He, you know, we don't have the greatest relationship, I'll be candid. But he growing up, up was like a profoundly talented public speaker. Not that he did a lot of it, but, you know, at Thanksgiving, who's gonna say grace? You know, my dad, or like, if there's a eulogy, he was the guy that was tapped to do it.
- [211:58]
Host
Or like, so jealous of that gift.
- [212:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's an incredible speaker and I find myself not even intentionally, but I, I know I sound like my dad. Like, the way he spoke, there was a. He would look at you and like, say things with like so much confidence that what he is saying is he's like imparting it on you and you better pay attention. But like, it worked. Just there's a way he tells stories. The way he speaks that's just really, really powerful. And as a kid, I was like so impressed by it that it isn't that when I began telling stories that I like, looked up to him, it's that I naturally modeled the way I spoke around somebody that I thought was really good at it. So I would say my father is someone that I sort of naturally have probably sort of mimicked in a way.
- [212:44]
Host
My dad was a great storyteller.
- [212:46]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, that's cool. And it's just like you're around it and then I. I can't believe we have to look. I'm sure someone will put in the comments.
- [212:53]
Host
It'll be in the comments.
- [212:54]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
He's great though.
- [212:55]
Host
When you were telling the story about Sergio, there was that one beat where you're like, you had to backtrack.
- [213:00]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah.
- [213:01]
Host
So when you're doing live, I'm assuming you're telling the same stories on a tour. Do you watch the audience as to Like, I'm a former stand up. So you're doing material and you're like, all right, that didn't play Next story. Do you make adjustments, like, other.
- [213:16]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, I had done a single live event in Texas in 2023 to, like, test the waters. It was great, but, like, it actually doesn't give you a whole lot of data. That's, like, one time. But what I found is when we did the tour in 24, we did 15 stops across the east coast, but we sort of hit a range of locations. There was, like, dc, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Philly, New York. But we also were, like, in North Carolina. And I say that because North Carolina. I lived in Virginia beach, right on the border of North Carolina. They're, like, such nice people. And. And it was towards the end of the tour, we went to North Carolina, and I had really dialed in my material. I was very confident in just what I was doing each night. And I remember being like, this is not going well. Two nights in North Carolina.
- [214:11]
Host
I'm glad you're telling this, because I was going to ask you to tell me when it didn't go well.
- [214:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Dude, I was up there. And there's a couple of beats in a few of the stories. I had four stories that I would tell you. I knew the points that were gonna, like, have a big impact, and it was just like a subdued audience, like, just very sub. And it was really hard.
- [214:34]
Host
When the first one doesn't hit, you're like, oh.
- [214:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, man. Was it hard? It was so hard. And I came to realize on the second night we were in North Carolina, and I don't even know how I came to this, but it suddenly made sense. The audience was being polite.
- [214:50]
Host
Oh, no.
- [214:51]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
The audience was being, like, unbelievable. Because that group of people that I thought hated, not hated me, but weren't interested were like. There were so many people after the show that stuck around to talk with me, like, more than anywhere else. How does that work? You know what I mean? And conversely, I had. When we were in Washington, D.C. there was a really rowdy crowd. And not in a good way. Not like in a we, like, no, like, not in, like, a we love these stories way. Like, like, it was, like, drunken bs, which is sort of funny because it's like, this is so not the place for it. I'm, like, telling these intense, like, stories that require focus.
- [215:27]
Host
Yeah.
- [215:28]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And the hard part was, if I'm taken out of the story by someone, it takes everyone out of the story. And I had to on two different occasions, not kick anybody out because I didn't do. I allowed security to do that, but I actually had to specifically tell people in the theater to stop what they're doing, really for the benefit of the whole crew. And it's really hard to get back into flow when you do that because you sort of feel like, did I overreact? I'm sort of up here by myself. You know, they paid to be here. That was hard. But then conversely, like, there have been audiences that were like, Chicago was one that was really good, and that was actually the most intimidating of all of them because it was the biggest theater of the whole one. There was, like, I think, 2900 people there. Wow.
- [216:16]
Host
I mean, it's sellout.
- [216:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, sellout would have been 3,100.
- [216:20]
Host
Still.
- [216:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
The way they did it is like, so the entire lower level was sold out, and then the upper level, it was like, to be honest, it pretty much looks sold out. It wasn't, but it was like, you wouldn't look at it and say, oh, no, it's here. You'd be like, wow, this is full. Maybe the lighting or something. But from my perspective, when I was out there, it was like, holy. This.
- [216:41]
Host
The.
- [216:41]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
There's a lot of people in here. You know, the other venues we were doing were sort of a little bit more narrow and like, maybe 1300 people, 1500 people, which is a lot. But Chicago theater is like this huge, wide theater, and the ground floor is like 2,000 people alone. And it's just like a sea of people. And the lighting is such. There's not a good way to, like, black out the crowd. And so you're really kind of seeing the whole crowd the whole time. But the crowd was so good. Like, they were, like, so into it. And I. It's funny, I went on stage for Chicago, and I. I had been told before I went on stage, like, by the people that worked there, they're like, hey, you know, you're welcome to have a drink out there, like, water, whatever. But just keep in mind, you know, this is a really old stage. If you're really careful, you don't spill anything. It's very hard to clean this. I'm like, no problem. And so I bring my mug of scalding hot tea with honey in it out there, and I'm, like, nervously walking on stage, and I immediately kicked over my mug of tea, and it spills all over the stage. And I'm looking over at the side, and everyone's like, God damn it. And, like, they can't Come out and clean it, because it's just started.
- [217:50]
Host
And that's how you always started the show, with the sticky.
- [217:53]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And so I knelt down and I sort of made a joke out of it, and I began sopping it up because I had a sleeping bag that was a set prop. And I began the show, like, as if I wasn't really doing this. I was, like, cleaning tea. And so, guys, like, I'm here tonight. And then people thought it was funny, and they were, like, laughing at it. And so it, like, softened the crowd a little bit, and it was. It was a great show. But, man. Yeah, I would say that in terms of the. I've done, I guess, a total of 16, like, live shows where, like, okay, there's a legitimate audience that I'm telling a story to. And. And I would say that the set list was basically the same, but the way it was delivered was 100% dictated on how's the crowd reacting, how good of a job did I just do in that story? And, like, if I did a crappy job, I really got to change the way I do this one and really ramp it up and nail the beats. But, like, that's sort of what makes storytelling fun, is, like, you really. You can alter the way it comes off just depending on how you deliver the story. So it's like, how you deliver it is key. And so being the advice I give people, if you want to be a really great storyteller is like, commit to the story, even if the story sucks, if you're committed to it. That's what they'll remember when you tell it.
- [219:01]
Host
I'm going to close out with your book. But before we do that, are you going to fly in the flannel?
- [219:05]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Fly in the flannel.
- [219:06]
Host
I like. When you leave here, are you going to change into civilian clothes?
- [219:09]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I'll change into civilian clothes.
- [219:11]
Host
So tell me the first time you're recognized.
- [219:14]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, man. Well, the. Funny. The. The.
- [219:16]
Host
The.
- [219:17]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
The thing is, is if I'm not in uniform, I am totally unrecognizable.
- [219:21]
Host
Sure.
- [219:22]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
You know, but in uniform, in uniformity happens. Yeah.
- [219:24]
Host
So what about the first time ever? Ironically, mine was at the urinal at a restaurant.
- [219:30]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Oh, really?
- [219:31]
Host
I was recognized behind me while in a very vulnerable state by the toilet attendant.
- [219:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Nice. That's my files.
- [219:37]
Host
And I'm like, I need a minute.
- [219:38]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Thanks, dude. Nice. Yeah. Let's take a picture.
- [219:41]
Host
He wanted one.
- [219:42]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
I was in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, where I was living at the time, and I was. This is like, TikTok days. This is like, the height of my TikTok early days.
- [219:51]
Host
Days.
- [219:51]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
And people were not really sort of, like, going out, but I was, like, in an outdoor seating area. Like a mask on the whole thing, right? Yeah. Covid and I, we were at this, like, little restaurant in downtown Doylestown, and not an ounce of me or my radar, in no way am I thinking people are going to know who I am. Like, it's. It never has crossed my mind. And I'm sitting at the edge of, like, the seating area that's outside, up against the fence, there's a sidewalk that's pretty well trafficked. And I'm just sitting there talking to my wife. My kids are there, and some dude stopped, and he's looking at me, and I'm like, what is this guy doing that? You're really in my space here. This is, like, uncomfortable. And he's like, Mr. Pollen. And at first I was like, what? I was like, oh, my God. I was like, you follow my account? And he's like, dude, he, like, held it up, like, whoa.
- [220:40]
Host
And that.
- [220:40]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, that was the first time, but it was like, oh, that's right. Like. Like there are real people attached to these numbers of views and all that stuff. Now it's like. I don't think it happens a ton, but when I'm, like, in uniform, I would say it's. It's relatively common, but not, like, not a lot. It's, like, people. It's a niche, you know?
- [220:56]
Host
Like, it is.
- [220:57]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yo, Mr. Ballin. You know, like, I was in the airport, waiting at the casino. Yeah, the airport. The hotel. Hotel. And I'm waiting to. To get picked up, to come over here, and someone walked in. I had my head down in. In Regalia, you know, and someone was like, dude, that looks like mister. And I heard it, and I turned around and looked at him, and he's like, wait a minute. And I was like, yeah, that's me. He's like, oh, we're huge fans, but it's. It's rare. It does happen, though.
- [221:23]
Host
It's fun. What makes your channel so good is the way you tell the story. And it's theater of the mind, but you do graphic novels, by the way. Shout out to Vendetti and Moody for amazing.
- [221:34]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Rob Vendetti, Andrea Mouti, awesome team. And Evan Allen, my sister, chief creative at Ballin and huge influence on these books.
- [221:42]
Host
So what. What does having a drawing of the story ruin? And what does it unlock?
- [221:51]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, well, so the reason we went with. So what does it unlock? I think the reason we went with graphic novel versus, like trying to do some, you know, just sort of text only book is. You know, I started as a visual thing. Like it was tick tock and then it was YouTube. And even though it's always been straight to camera, green screen and like some pictures, it's not like a huge production. It's always been you're sort of looking at someone who's telling you a story, and then you're also being given glimpses of the story through imagery. It's simple, but it's visual. And as much as it's theater of the mind, and it definitely is, it's just. There's always been a visual component to it. And when we were thinking about how can we make a book feel. Feel like Mr. Ball? And we came up with graphic novel. But at first when we sort of tested it out a little bit, we, like put out some comics, like little clips of it, like in our discord and read it. People weren't like, this is bad. They were like, it's great. Like, oh, it's great. It's all right. But then I was like, you know what? One of the things that we can do with a graphic novel that's visual as well, that would make it even more Mr. Baloney is they're used to me in my flannel and backwards hat, like, literally in. In their purview, in their view, telling the story. And we were like, why don't we add a little avatar of Mr. Ballin's face in flannel with a backwards hat in the book? Just like, periodically remind them that, like, your narrator is here. Like, the text is meant to be my voice, but like the little bubble with different caricature animations, it's designed to, like, remind them that, like, this is the visual representation of, like, where it all begins. Can. And I think it translates well. I think people get the vibe. Much more positive remarks as soon as we added a little Avatar.
- [223:34]
Host
New York Times bestseller.
- [223:36]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, no, very, very successful. But in terms of what it's what. What you lose. And I think that comes to the thing I was just saying, which is like, there's. There's power in the storyteller themselves. You are the storyteller. If you're reading a book, you're. You're internally narrating it, and, and I hope, oh, I come through in your internal narration, but you lose like, the person controlling the story, which is the bard, the person telling the story. So I think you do lose that. Even if there's a little avatar in there.
- [224:05]
Host
So the new book is the Terror Within. The marketing copy is what are you capable of? So we heard a lot of dark side to Mr. Ballin today. So what are you capable of when no one's looking?
- [224:15]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the. That's the primer.
- [224:18]
Host
If there's no ramifications, what are you.
- [224:20]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
What.
- [224:20]
Host
What are you capable of?
- [224:21]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Well, you know, I've sort of seen it in my own life, but I. I think that, like, this book sort of begins to examine stories about people that demonstrate they're capable of a whole lot of stuff. It's not so good. And I. There's. There's some other statistic that is not included in this book, but it's. It's definitely one I've read that's stuck with me. It's like there are some ungodly number of. Of uncaught serial killers that are just walking amongst, like, a large number of them, and they're just. They're your barber, they're your grocer, they're your doordash guy, you know, whatever. And that's horrifying, but, like, of course, that's how it works, you know, and it's like. So this question of, like, the terror within or this premise is like. It's not just a thought. Like, there really are people out there right now that you might think, you know, but actually you don't. There's something inside of them that's pretty dark.
- [225:15]
Host
Is there anything you wanted to touch on before we say goodbye?
- [225:18]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
No, other than I really appreciate the conversation, and it was cool to get into some stuff that I've never talked about. In particular, like the. The military stuff that was. That was heavy, but I felt like you were a good person to share that with, so thank you.
- [225:31]
Host
Thanks, John. I thanked you at the beginning of the show for helping my channel, and tonight. You have reinvigorated me for this medium. Honestly. Hell yeah.
- [225:39]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Yeah. That's awesome, dude. Awesome.
- [225:42]
Host
Mr. Ballin.
- [225:43]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Thank you, man.
- [225:44]
Host
That was Mr. Ballin, John Allen. John's one of the nicest guys I've ever met in this business and instantly became one of my favorite people. Now, there's not much to break down here, but a couple of things. The Argentine cop story is real, so let's start there. His name was Corporal Luis Sergio Pichetta. And the case files out of La Pampa from March 2006 read almost exactly the way John tells it. The disassembled gun on the roadside is in there. He turned up 18 hours later, Bone dry after a night of rain. People have spent 20 years trying to break that story and got nowhere. It's a great case. Now. Efraim, the buddy who left the SEAL teams to fight isis, that's real. And the rescue's on video. His charity posts it on their own site. One detail drifted the footage shows the team leader carrying the girl while Efraim laid down covering fire. But he took a bullet while doing it. The man is exactly who Johnson says he is, and I am going to support that charity. The Ted Bundy story. Well, John flagged it himself before I could. There's no interview where Bundy says any of that. The story lives in a university folklore archive filled with campfire legends. It's a campfire story about a campfire killer, because of course it is the military stories. The flattering version of John's record is out there, but he spent an hour of our conversation replacing it with an uglier one on camera. That took bravery. Don's book is the Terror within, out September 29th. Four of the stories in it have never been told anywhere else, and everything I mentioned is linked below. I covered those nine dead Russian hikers that started John's second life. It's the Diaw Pass episode and I break down how I think it happened. It's pretty interesting. And if you like the Pachetta case, my Pascagoula episode is another abduction story that the police believed it's until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.
- [227:48]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
The Bible said I would
- [227:52]
Host
I love
- [227:52]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music song singing like I should but then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth my friends and it never ends no it never ends. I feel the crap guy down got stuck inside Mel's home with MKOTRU being only 2 aware did Stanley Kubrick face the moon landing alone on a film set or were the shadow people there The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man I'm told and his name was cold and I can't believe I'm dancing with the fishes had to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 and W through the night All I ever wanted was to just be the truth took a one falls on my feet all through the night. The madman sidings and the solar storms still come to Agatha the secret city underground mysterious number stations Planet Circle 2 Project Stargate and what the dark watchers
- [229:42]
Host
found
- [229:45]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
simulation don't you worry though the Black Knight satellite I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish Kettle fish on Thursday nights with they J2 and the weapons. Of weapons. All through the night, All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. A dance?
- [230:49]
Host
Yeah.
- [230:49]
John Allen (Mr. Ballin)
Curly love to dance on the dance floor because she is a camel and camels love to dance when the feeling is right. Always in time, Sam.