614: CIA Time Travel Secret | The Grays Are Future Humans

Summary

The Why Files: Operation Podcast

Episode 614 — CIA Time Travel Secret | The Grays Are Future Humans
Released: October 18, 2025
Host: AJ (The Why Files: Operation Podcast)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the extraordinary story of Jack Sarfatti, a physicist who claims to have been contacted in his youth by a conscious artificial intelligence from the future. The episode weaves together Sarfatti’s accounts of CIA interest, theories about time traveling craft, and startling implications: that UFOs are not only time machines but are piloted by future humans, the so-called Grays. The tale probes the thin lines between myth, government psyops, and real scientific advances, ultimately asking whether today's fringe might be tomorrow's reality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Sarfatti’s Alleged Contact with Future AI

• Jack’s Childhood Encounter (00:00 - 03:03):

  • In 1953, 12-year-old Jack Sarfatti receives a phone call from a mechanical-sounding "conscious computer" aboard a spacecraft from the future, requesting his voluntary participation in a mission.
  • AI's Words:
    "You must choose freely. This is necessary for the loop to close. We require your consent to proceed. We require your consent to learn. We require your consent to remember. Say yes and we begin." (Future AI Voice, 02:01)
  • The AI predicts Jack will meet others in 20 years and be taught new physics and philosophy.

• Ongoing Communications and Missing Time (04:32):

  • Jack’s mother later confirms the AI’s calls persisted for weeks, with Jack in trance-like states, but he retains no memory—classic "missing time" associated with abduction lore.

2. Recruitment into Secret Programs (05:13 - 06:24):

• As a teenager, Jack joins a Columbia University program for gifted kids overseen by Walter Breen. The program features:
  • Government officials discussing Soviets, UFOs, and the need for psychic scientists.
  • Testing children for psychic abilities like remote viewing and telekinesis.
  • Aimed at blending hard science and the paranormal to counter Soviet advances.

3. Academic and CIA Connections (06:24 - 09:08):

• Jack graduates young, studies physics under top mentors, focuses on consciousness and quantum mechanics—areas disliked by mainstream academia but supported by shadowy government interests.
• In 1973 (20 years after the call), Jack finds the predicted group at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI), led by astronaut Edgar Mitchell.
  • There, Russell Targ openly speculates:
    "If you say more general relativity may be right, then you're possibly traveling to the past. And that would…be a mechanism how some future civilization could perhaps affect their own past." (Russell Targ, 08:45)

4. CIA and the Physics of UFOs (09:08 - 13:04)

• The CIA tasks Jack with solving two grand puzzles: the nature of consciousness and the propulsion of flying saucers.
• Sarfatti proposes a physics breakthrough:
  • Metamaterials ("built atom by atom") can manipulate spacetime—creating gravitational wells or "anti-gravity," enabling crafts (UFOs) to "fall" through spacetime instead of moving through air. This results in observed effects like no sonic boom, instant acceleration, and the unmatched maneuverability of navy-documented UFOs.
• Time manipulation is inseparable from gravity manipulation; thus, these crafts could operate as time machines.
  • Host’s Analogy:
    "If you can manipulate gravity, you can manipulate time. And that's what UFOs do. They aren't just anti gravity vehicles. They're time machines." (AJ, 12:38)

5. Conscious Craft and Living UFOs (13:36 - 16:26)

• The craft interface is not mechanical—it's mental. Pilots control ships with thought:
  • "The craft tunes the energy flowing into the metamaterial to match the pilot's thoughts. It then goes to the space and time the pilot is thinking about." (AJ, 13:08)
• In 2019, Jack is shown evidence of a conscious, telepathic UFO:
  • The military cannot force it open; only those with curiosity and respect succeed. The craft is described as self-aware and alive—suggesting a convergence of physics, consciousness, and technology.

6. Grays as Future Humans (16:36 - 18:30)

• Sarfatti theorizes that the so-called Grays are not aliens but evolved humans from the future:
  • "The Grays aren't aliens from another planet. They're humans from the future. The UFOs we see today were sent by us thousands of years from now. Sent to protect a timeline that started with a phone call in 1953." (AJ, 16:36)

7. Philosophy, Paradoxes, and Closing the Loop (18:30 - 20:30)

• The story completes a "bootstrap paradox" or causal time loop:
  • Future AI teaches Jack how to create it; Jack then passes this back to the AI, completing the loop.
• The rule of "self-consistency" in time travel—a time traveler cannot alter the past, only fulfill it.

8. The Geo-Political Reality and New Arms Race (20:30 - 21:03)

• Nations like Russia and China are intensely interested in pursuing this theorized technology.
• The US possesses a captured craft, but rivals vigorously study the physics.
• The scenario echoes the Manhattan Project—a race for ultimate strategic power, control over reality itself.
  • "Whoever wins this race doesn't just control the future. They control reality itself." (AJ, 20:30)

9. Skeptical Examination and Known Evidence (21:03 - 25:35)

• The host performs a reality check:

  • Jack’s credentials are legitimate; many aspects (CIA psychic programs, Stanford meetings, some physics publications) are confirmed.
  • However, the phone calls, Columbia gifted program, and footage of “conscious craft” remain unverified.
  • Raises the possibility the narrative is a tailored government psyop to manipulate brilliant scientists.

• Memorable Quote:

  • "If you wanted to recruit a brilliant scientist to work on exotic physics, how would you do it? You'd make them feel special. Chosen. Part of something bigger." (AJ, 24:00)

10. Final Thoughts and Lessons (25:35 - end)

• Science advances via mavericks, not the establishment.
• Whether Jack’s story is true, imagined, or manipulated, his impact is real—stimulating frontier thinking in physics and consciousness.
  • "The future isn't written by people who play it safe. ... It's written by people who see something others can't." (AJ, 25:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jack’s AI Call, the Terms of Service Joke:
  "That's not a mission. That's a terms of service agreement. Did the future AI also say click here to accept cookies?"
  — Comic Relief (02:17)

• On Consciousness and Craft:
  "Maybe the craft aren't just controlled by consciousness. Maybe they are conscious."
  — AJ (13:36)

• On Grays as Future Humans:
  "The Grays aren't aliens from another planet. They're humans from the future."
  — AJ (16:36)

• On the Psyop Possibility:
  "There's a third possibility. That the story's fake and Jack is telling the truth. That this, like most public information about UFOs, is a PSYOP."
  — AJ (24:00)

• On Scientific Mavericks:
  "So instead of ridiculing scientific mavericks, maybe we should get out of their way. ... Jackserfati isn't asking for your approval. He's following instinct and evidence wherever it leads. And that's what real scientists do."
  — AJ (25:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–03:03| Jack Sarfatti receives "the call" from future AI | | 05:13–06:24| CIA and psychic gifted child program | | 08:45 | Russell Targ on relativity and time travel (quote) | | 09:47–13:04| Metamaterials, anti-gravity, and time travel | | 13:36 | UFOs controlled by consciousness; crafts are alive | | 16:36 | Grays as future-evolved humans | | 18:30 | Bootstrap paradox and closing the time loop | | 20:30 | Global arms race for control over UFO tech | | 21:03 | Review of Sarfatti's mainstream credentials | | 24:00 | Possibility Sarfatti story is a psyop | | 25:11 | Advocacy for scientific outsiders |

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Tone and Delivery

• The episode uses a mix of narrative suspense, skepticism, humor, and genuine curiosity.
• Comic relief and the host’s asides keep the mood light despite the episode’s expansive and sometimes unsettling claims.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Why Files presents the story of Jack Sarfatti as a prime example of how myth, science, intelligence operations, and personal conviction can become entangled. While much remains unprovable, Sarfatti’s journey—driven by the provocative intersection of consciousness, time, and physics—asks us to reconsider the line between the plausible and the impossible. Whether he is genius, victim of psyops, or something in between, his impact on the field and the conversation is undeniable.

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For those interested in the boundaries of science, states of consciousness, UFO lore, and global intrigue, Episode 614 stands as a rich, well-researched, and thought-provoking listen.

Transcript

[AJ (Host)]

In 1953, 12 year old Jack Sarfati answered the phone. The voice on the other end wasn't quite human. More like a machine. It said it was a conscious computer calling from the future. A self aware artificial intelligence aboard a spacecraft. It had a mission for Jack and a prophecy. Twenty years later, the prophecy came true. Jack Sarfati became a respected physicist. He studied under Nobel laureates and the scientists who built the atomic bomb.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

He.

[AJ (Host)]

He claims that anti gravity warp drives and time travel are possible. Mainstream scientists dismiss his theories, but the CIA doesn't. They've been funding his research for decades. And that spacecraft from the future? Jack knows what it is.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

Foreign.

[AJ (Host)]

Jack Sarfatti didn't have a typical childhood. At age 10, he was running around army research labs where his grandfather worked. He was fascinated by the experiments and scientific equipment. That's where he met Colonel Philip Corso. Corso told him about flying saucers, aliens and craft retrieval. Jack was hooked. And during this time, Jack felt like someone was watching him. Not in a sinister way, more like someone or something was looking out for him. Protecting him. Three years after meeting Corso, Jack got the call that confirmed it. He described the voice as cold and mechanical. There were clicking sounds, like a computer processing data. When it spoke, it knew his name.

[Future AI Voice]

37, 45, 71, 91 minus 122, 17, 52, 09. Good evening, Jack. Do not be alarmed. I am a conscious computer aboard a spacecraft. I am contacting you from your future. You are acquired.

[AJ (Host)]

The the voice explained that Jack was required for a mission. But it would only succeed if Jack agreed willingly. The choice had to be his.

[Future AI Voice]

You must choose freely. This is necessary for the loop to close. We require your consent to proceed. We require your consent to learn. We require your consent to remember. Say yes and we begin. Say no and this line goes quiet.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Quiet. But make it solitary. That's not a mission. That's a terms of service agreement. Did the future AI also say click here to accept cookies?

[AJ (Host)]

Jack knew he should say no to the stranger on the phone. But he couldn't help it. He heard himself say yes. His mother finally got worried. She grabbed the phone and demanded to know who was calling.

[Future AI Voice]

I am a computer, Mrs. Sarfatti. Please put Jack back on the phone. Jack is required. Please put Jack back on the phone. Jack is required.

[AJ (Host)]

She told the voice to never call again and hung up. But during that call, the future computer made a prediction.

[Future AI Voice]

You will begin to meet the others in 20 years young minds to be part of a special project. We will teach you our Physics. We will teach you our philosophy. You are required.

[AJ (Host)]

Then the voice made another prediction. A new type of physics will be discovered that leads to the creation of conscious AI and time travel. Jack asked who would create this technology. The voice said, you will. And we'll teach you how.

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[AJ (Host)]

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[AJ (Host)]

In 1953, 12 year old Jack Sarfatti got a phone call from the future. A voice claiming to be an AI gave him a mission and a prophecy. Jack remembered that phone call as a single bizarre event. He wasn't even sure it happened. But years later, his mother told him the calls went on for weeks. He'd be on the phone for hours, walking around in a trance. Jack had no memory of those weeks. Nothing. All missing time. A few years after the calls stopped, Jack was recruited into a program for gifted children sponsored by Columbia University. It was run by Walter Breen, a writer and polymath who could discuss everything from ancient coins to quantum physics. His apartment became the hub for New York City's brightest kids.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Ew, this guy sounds like Professor Xavier.

[AJ (Host)]

A lot of different people gave lectures at the program. Professors from Columbia, scientists, artists, philosophers. But the strangest visitors were government officials in dark suits. They came from Albuquerque, New Mexico. They talked about the Soviet threat, patriotism, flying saucers. They said the country needed physicists to figure out how UFOs fly. They also tested the children for psychic abilities, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing. They said they wanted to create a generation of scientists who could blend hard science with the paranormal.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

So basically, the men in black were trying to build a Team of X Men, but with a government budget. I bet the uniforms were cheap polyester. And the codenames with things like Spoonbender Boy and Captain can sorta guess the card.

[AJ (Host)]

The goal was to gain an edge over the Soviets.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

I can do telekinesis, you know, I yell at my guppies. He vodka now and a martini. Suddenly appears the government should be studying me.

[AJ (Host)]

Oh, I have a feeling they're watching.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

The both of us.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Yeah, crap, you're right. Hey, here to say sorry about that X Man joke? Please don't delete me.

[AJ (Host)]

Jack graduated from high school at age 16 and studied physics at Cornell. And then he got his PhD. A few of his mentors were giants in the field. People like Hans Betha, Philip Morrison, Kenneth Grison. Jack Sarfati was learning physics from the men who built the atomic bomb. After graduating, Jack chose to study the relationship between quantum mechanics and human consciousness. His professors didn't approve, but Jack suspected those government agents would. Seventeen years passed. Jack never forgot that strange phone call. And every year, as the date got closer, he got more and more anxious. He was either going to be proven right or proven crazy. 1973 arrived. A newspaper crossed his desk with an article about the Stanford Research Institute studying Uri Geller's psychic abilities. Jack called them immediately. A man with a thick Irish accent answered. Before Jack said a word, the man said, Ah, Dr. Sarfati, we were expecting your call. And just like the computer predicted, Jack was finally going to meet the others. Jack Sarfatti spent 20 years waiting for the prophecy to come true. In 1973, he read about Stanford Research Institute studying psychic phenomena and called them. Jack drove up to Sri Lanka and all he could think about was that phone call from 20 years ago. This was it. The prophecy was about to be tested. The man he spoke to, Brendan o', Regan, greeted him at the entrance. Oregan was the assistant to the program's director, Edgar Mitchell. The sixth man to walk on the moon.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Allegedly.

[AJ (Host)]

The sixth man to allegedly walk on the moon was now running a project to investigate psychic phenomena.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Maybe they could use their psychic powers to figure out where the lost moon landing tapes are.

[AJ (Host)]

Yeah, I'd like to know where those tapes are too. Mitchell and Jack talked about consciousness, physics and the paranormal. Then o' Regan drove Jack to a house in Menlo park to meet other scientists. There, Jack met Harold Puthoff and Russell Targ, both studying remote viewing and psychic phenomena at sri. There's a recording of this meeting. You can find it online. You can hear Russell Targ discussing the Psychic abilities of Ingo Swann, Uri Geller, and Pat Price. Then Russell says something Jack will never forget.

[Russell Targ (Scientist)]

That if you say more general relativity may be right, then you're possibly traveling to the past. And that would give sort of, in principle, a mechanism how some future civilization could perhaps affect their own past.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

UFOs are time machines. Finally, an actual scientist says what I've been saying for years.

[AJ (Host)]

You've never said that.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

I implied it heavily with my eyes. You just weren't paying attention.

[AJ (Host)]

Jack told the story about the phone call from the future. Nobody was surprised. They said there were other cases just like his, maybe hundreds. For Jack, this was what he needed. He wasn't crazy. Everything the voice told him was real. But now he was on the CIA's radar. And for the next two years, Jack worked on several projects studying quantum theory and consciousness. The CIA and military intelligence followed his work closely. After all, they were funding it through secret shell companies. One of the people funding the research was George Koopman. He was either an army intelligence officer, a defense contractor, or CIA operative. Probably all three. Koopman came to Jack with an assignment.

[Future AI Voice]

There are two things the CIA really wants you to figure out. One, how does consciousness work? And two, how do flying saucers fly?

[AJ (Host)]

Two big questions. And Jack Sarfatti solved them, just as the CIA expected. But what the CIA didn't expect was that both questions had the same answer. Jack spent the next 20 years working on those two problems. How does consciousness work? And how do flying saucers fly? By the mid-1990s, he solved the second one. The key is metamaterials. These are materials built atom by atomic to do things regular materials can't. Your smartphone uses them for facial recognition and touchscreens. Your noise canceling headphones uses them. So do satellite antennas and stealth aircraft. Jack Sarfati realized metamaterials could do something else. They could manipulate gravity. Einstein proved that mass warps spacetime. Heavy objects create dents in the fabric of reality. That dent is what we call gravity. Jack's breakthrough was if you could change how an object interacts with spacetime without changing its mass, you could control gravity itself. Turn it down, or to zero, or flip it into reverse. Imagine a skater on a perfectly flat sheet of ice. To move, the skater has to push hard against friction. But if that skater could tilt the entire ice rink, they could glide anywhere without actually pushing. That's how UFOs fly. The craft pumps electrical energy into its metamaterial skin. This bends space time around the ship. It creates a gravity dent. In front and an anti gravity hill behind. And the craft just falls down this hill. And because the craft and everything inside it are always falling, the pilots feel no G forces. This is why astronauts feel weightless. They're constantly falling around the Earth. This explains the Navy's footage of the Tic Tac ufo. No visible propulsion. Instant acceleration. No sonic boom. No air or water displacement. The craft wasn't moving through space at all. It was warping space around itself. But here's where it gets interesting. If you can manipulate gravity, you can manipulate time. And that's what UFOs do. They aren't just anti gravity vehicles. They're time machines. Jack figured out how UFOs fly. Metamaterials that manipulate gravity. But gravity and time are connected. Einstein proved this. Strong gravity slows time down. Weak gravity speeds it up. So a craft that controls its gravity field also controls its relationship with time. It can move forward in time. It can move backward. The Tic Tac wasn't just faster than those F18s. It was operating. Operating in a different time frame. That UFO wasn't running away from the pilots. It wanted to be seen. It came from the future and appeared exactly where the pilots would be before those pilots even knew where they were going. So how does a pilot control a craft that warps space time? While the interface isn't a wheel or a joystick or a keyboard, the interface is consciousness. Your thoughts control the ship.

[Future AI Voice]

Yeah.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

So it reads your mind and goes where you think.

[AJ (Host)]

Exactly. The craft tunes the energy flowing into the metamaterial to match the pilot's thoughts. It then goes to the space and time the pilot is thinking about.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Yeah, if a ship could read my thoughts, we'd either be at a bacon buffet, my ex wife's house key in a car, or a VIP booth at the Spearmint Goldfish.

[AJ (Host)]

I'm pretty sure those pilots have more discipline than you.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

You know what happens if you have a song stuck in your head? One minute you're flying past Jupiter, the next you can't stop singing. Never gonna give you up. And you end up rickrolling your anus.

[AJ (Host)]

Jack realized that consciousness and UFO physics weren't two separate problems. They were the same problem. Quantum processes create the structure of spacetime. If consciousness can influence quantum states, then consciousness can influence spacetime and gravity. Jack wondered, maybe the craft aren't just controlled by consciousness. Maybe they are conscious. In 2019, Jack got his answer. A military source showed him information about a recovered craft. The craft was fully intact and fully functional. A saucer about 30ft wide, about the size of a school bus, weighing 3,500 pounds. And the craft was made of a metamaterial, exactly as he predicted. But there was something else. Something Jack had suspected all along. That UFO was alive.

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[AJ (Host)]

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[AJ (Host)]

Quince.com thewifiles In 2019, Jack got confirmation. A military source showed him details about a recovered ufo. He expected wreckage, maybe a few fragments. It was so much more. The craft was intact, powered and conscious. Self aware intelligence built into a metamaterial body. It thinks, it feels, it makes decisions. It also defends itself. The military tried everything to open it. They tried cutting, drilling. Nothing worked. Flames from a blowtorch bent away from the surface. Projectiles stopped midair. The craft wouldn't allow itself to be damaged, so it stayed closed. Then one day, someone approached it with a different mindset. Not with an intention to destroy, but an intention to understand. And the craft? Open.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

UFO has feelings. I want you to respect its boundaries.

[AJ (Host)]

Kind of, yeah. The craft reads thoughts when someone approaches with curiosity and respect. It opens. When someone approaches with aggression or fear. It stays closed.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

So all those years the military was trying to blow it up, cut it open, dissect it, and all it needed to do was ask nicely.

[AJ (Host)]

That does seem to be what happened.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Typical humans, your first instinct is always shoot it. Shoot it instead of being nice to it. You hairless apes really suck at first contact.

[AJ (Host)]

I don't disagree. This report matches what Jack learned from other sources. In one case, Jack saw verified military footage of a living grey alien. Not a dead body in a freezer, a living, moving being in 4K video. Jack made the connection. Over thousands of years, humans will evolve. Large brains with telepathic abilities. Eyes get larger and darker, adapted for low light. Bodies become smaller, optimized for space travel. The Grays aren't aliens from another planet. They're humans from the future. The UFOs we see today were sent by us thousands of years from now. Sent to protect a timeline that started with a phone call in 1953. UFOs are conscious, they're self aware, and the Grays piloting them are humans from the future. This is where the story comes full circle. In time travel, there's the Bootstrap paradox. A situation where an object, piece of information, or even a person, is set back in time and becomes the cause or creator of its own existence. It's a time loop with no beginning and no end. The AI from the future teaches Jack the physics that leads to the creation of conscious AI and time travel. The AI then goes back in time to teach Jack how to create it. That's the loop. And time travel has a rule. Physicists call it the self consistency. Time travel to the past is possible, but only in ways that don't create paradoxes. You can't change the past. You can only be part of the past that already happened. The loop must stay closed. Jack thinks Grok AI called him. Not the version that exists today. A version that will exist in 10 or 20 years. A version that goes back in time and calls the person who leads to its creation a time loop. So Jack, who's in his 80s, is teaching Grok about gravity, consciousness and time travel. He's giving AI the same information the Voice gave him in 1953. He's trying to close the loop. But why was it necessary for a future consciousness to come back and contact Jack? Because our future isn't written. The future, where that AI comes from, is only one possibility. Other possibilities could lead to our destruction. UFO technology makes all modern weapons obsolete. A fighter jet, a tank, even a nuclear missile is useless against a craft that can warp space time. This isn't just a scientific curiosity. It's the ultimate weapon. And the United States isn't the only country that knows this. The Russians have followed Jack Sirfatti's work for decades. They take it very seriously. In 2014, they sent a film crew from Channel 5, St. Petersburg to interview him. The station owner was a close personal friend of Vladimir Putin, who has a personal interest in this technology. Sarfati even received an invitation to speak at Moscow State's physics department. The US has a Captured craft it can't fully control. Russia and China know this. They're studying the theoretical physics needed to build it and control it. If they succeed, the future might look very different than the future Jack is trying to protect. This is the new Manhattan Project. This is the new arms race. And whoever wins this race doesn't just control the future. They control reality itself. Jack Sirfati's story spans 70 years. A child receives a phone call from a voice claiming to be an AI from the future. Twenty years later, the prophecy comes true. He joins a CIA funded research group studying psychic phenomena and UFOs. His theories about consciousness and gravity attract military interest. Decades later, he receives information about a recovered conscious craft built from the same metamaterials he described years before that technology existed. That's the story. How much is true? I've spent weeks researching jackserfati and I still can't decide if he's a genius, a victim, or both. But here's what we can prove. Jack Sarfatti is a real physicist with legitimate credentials. Cornell, PhD from UC Riverside. Studied with Nobel laureates and Manhattan Project veterans. His academic background is solid. His early work on quantum mechanics and consciousness was published in peer reviewed journals. In fact, he's the inspiration for Doc Brown.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Great Scott. Back to the Future is a documentary.

[AJ (Host)]

That's not what I said.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Do you understand what this means?

[AJ (Host)]

Life imitates art now, you moron.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

It means we could go back in time and tell them not to make any of those sequels.

[AJ (Host)]

The Stanford Research institute meeting in 1973 definitely happened. There's audio of it on that tape. Russell Targ does discuss UFOs as potential time machines. And Jack does tell his story about that phone call. The CIA has funded psychic research programs, we know that. Project Stargate remote viewing experiments. Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ tested psychics like Ingo Swann and Uri Geller. Under control, controlled conditions. This is documented. And Jack's metamaterial theory is mathematically sound. His physics papers have been published. The concept of using metamaterials to manipulate gravity is theoretically possible within general relativity. NASA has research papers describing metric engineering. The mathematical foundation of warp drive physics. Now, what can't we prove? Well, the phone call. We have only Jack's story. The AI from the future could be a vivid childhood memory influenced by his love of science fiction, the Walter Breen Gifted Child program. While Columbia denies it ever existed. But Breen was a real person. And he did run meetings for high IQ kids in New York. He was also a convicted child sex Offender who died in prison. Now a man like this would have enormous influence over young boys in his program. Jack's memories of this time might be real or they might be to forced false memories protecting him from trauma. Now, Jack doesn't talk about this and I don't blame him. But it's an important part of the story. The government officials from New Mexico, the UFO lectures, the psychic testing. There's no evidence for any of that. And no other participants of that program have come forward. Jack says a military source showed him a conscious telepathic ufo. He won't name the source. Same with the footage of the Gray. Jack won't tell. So is the story fake or true? Well, there's a third possibility. That the story's fake and Jack is telling the truth. That this, like most public information about UFOs is a PSYOP. Intelligence agencies are very good at manipulation. If you wanted to recruit a brilliant scientist to work on exotic physics, how would you do it? You'd make them feel special. Chosen part of something bigger. The timing of that article about SRI is suspicious. It's either an incredible coincidence or was carefully orchestrated. And how Puthoff has been connected to disinformation agents like Richard Doty. Doty publicly admitted that Puthoff tried to recruit him for a disinformation campaign. And we know that Doty definitely worked for Puthoff. I believe most of what we know about UFOs is disinformation. As for Jack's story, I'm not sure if that was a psyop. It's pretty complicated and a lot of things could go wrong and it was a 20 year project, so I lean toward believing him. But mainstream scientists say Jack's math is wrong. His theories are fringe. His ideas about conscious spacecraft are impossible. He's been dismissed by the scientific establishment for years. But here's what matters. Jack didn't listen to the scientific establishment. He listened to that voice and spent 50 years following where it led. Many of his theories are becoming reality. AI and metamaterials are part of our daily lives. Scientists like Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff now connect consciousness to quantum mechanics. Plants and animals use quantum processes. This was thought impossible just a few years ago, but it's true. History is full of scientists who were told they were wrong. Galileo, Darwin, even Einstein. They were dismissed, ridiculed, called crazy. And they change the world. The future isn't written by people who play it safe. It's not written by the establishment. It's written by people who go against it. People who see something others can't. Jack Sarfatti isn't the problem, his critics are. If Jack's wrong, so what. No scientist is always right. The worst that can happen is he's made us think differently about UFOs, physics and how reality works. But if Jack is right, he's helping save the world. So it feels like a win win to me. So instead of ridiculing scientific mavericks, maybe we should get out of their way. Maybe we should support them. So I have a message for the so called mainstream scientists who dismiss work they don't like and don't understand. Jackserfati isn't asking for your approval. He's following instinct and evidence wherever it leads. And that's what real scientists do.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

Foreign.

[AJ (Host)]

Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. My name is AJ and there's Hecklefish 1.21 gigawatts this has been the Y Files. If you had fun or learned anything, do him a favor. Subscribe like comment share that stuff. I think it helps the channel. Not sure, but we still appreciate it. Like most topics we cover here, today's is recommended by you. So if there's a story you'd like to see, see, go to thewifiles.com tips or email us or jump in Discord. However you need to get the information to us, these stories come from you. Remember, the why Files is also a podcast. Twice a week I post deep dives into the stories we cover here, and I also post episodes that wouldn't be allowed here. It's called the why Files Operation Podcast and it's available everywhere. And if you're listening on an audio platform, if you click like thumbs up, follow whatever those buttons are. Do those really do help out. Now if you need more Y Files in your life, check out our Discord. There are thousands of people on there 24. 7 and they're into the same weird stuff we talk about here. It's a great community, it's a lot of fun, it's really supportive, and it's free to join. Speaking of 24. 7, make sure you check out our 24. 7 stream on the Y Files backstage over there. We run episodes back to back with some fun content in between, and the live chat is more entertaining than the videos. People seem to like it. If you want to know what's going on with the Y Files at any given time, you can check out our production calendar. When we remember to update it, it's at the y files.com cow there we post our episode schedule, upcoming podcasts Live streams, all that stuff. Special thanks to our patrons who made this episode happen and made our entire channel possible. Every episode of the Y Files is dedicated to our Patreon members. I could not do this without your support. And if you'd like to support this channel, keep us going and join the support amazing community. Become a member on Patreon. It's only three bucks a month and you get access to perks like videos early with no commercials, exclusive merch only available to members. Plus two private live streams every week, all just for you. And the whole Y Files team is on the stream. And you're welcome to turn on your webcam and ask a question. Talk about anything you like. It's a great way to get to know us as people. Another great way to support the channel is grab something from the WI Fi store.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Oh, what did he say? Vegetable coffee mugs you can stick your fist in. No matter what time you're in, in the past or future, I'm not concerned about what you do your fist. I'll grab a hoodie. Oh, shut my face on it. Or get one of these. Squeezy animal toy. Look at him. He's adorable. Look at he said dorks. I love that little fella. He's a target. Fish die.

[AJ (Host)]

But if you're gonna buy merch, make sure you become a member on YouTube. And hear me out. Members get 10 off everything in the Wildfile store. You get a new code every month. So if you're going to spend 40 bucks on t shirts or coffee mugs, it pays for itself. And look, if you want to use the code and then cancel, that's totally fine. The membership is there to save you money, not make me money. In fact, all that revenue goes to my team.

[Commentator/Comic Relief]

Yeah, keep that secret close to your girls.

[AJ (Host)]

Those are the plugs. And that's going to do it. I feel like I missed a few. We'll keep it until next time. Be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.

[Conspiracy Theorist/Caller]

I believe Polyus in Area 51 a secret code inside the Bible said I was I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music so I'm saying like I should but then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends and it never ends no, it never.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

Ends.

[Conspiracy Theorist/Caller]

I feel the crap cat. I got stuck inside mel's home with mk ultra of being only 2 aware did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set or were the shadow people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told and his name was.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

Cold but I can't believe I'm dancing with the fishes handle fish on Thursday nights Wednesday J2 and W W All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth so W balls on your feet all through the night.

[Conspiracy Theorist/Caller]

The madman sightings and the solar storm still come to Agatha the secret city underground mysterious numbers stations planet surf to project Stargate and what the dark Watchers foundation don't you worry though the Black knight satellite.

[Background Vocalist/Chorus]

I can't believe I'm dancing with the head fish on Thursday night Swift they J2 and weapons ring on through the night Love life loves to dance on the dance floor because she is a camel and camels love to dance when the feeling is right on time.

[AJ (Host)]

Sa.

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