635: Basement #007: Hugh Newman | Giant Skeletons, Sumerian Myths, and Megaliths

Summary

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The Why Files: Operation Podcast

Episode 635: Basement #007 – Hugh Newman | Giant Skeletons, Sumerian Myths, and Megaliths

Date: March 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Hugh Newman—author, explorer, and founder of the Megalithomania Conference—joins the hosts to dig into mysteries of ancient megalithic sites, early civilizations, underground cities, standardized measurement systems in prehistory, connections between ancient cultures, and the legends of giants. Steeped in on-the-ground research and bold hypotheses, Hugh walks listeners through new evidence that challenges mainstream timelines, sharing discoveries and adventures from Turkey to Egypt, Peru, and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Megalithomania Conference & Multidisciplinary Research

• Origins & Purpose:

  • Established as an open, respectful forum bridging alternative historical researchers and academics. Made explicit effort to avoid the drama common in online debates.
  • “It was set up as a forum, like public forum, to have the alternative historical information and researchers with the academics, all on the same stage. But In a […] kind way.” — (Hugh Newman, 01:53)

• Embracing Multiple Disciplines:

  • Highlights need for acoustics, astronomy, electromagnetic research, symbolism, and mythology alongside classic archaeology.
  • “Archaeologists do brilliant work […] But when it comes to things like astronomy, acoustics or mythology or symbolism, even subtle energies and things like this, it's not something they're interested in or trained in.” — (Hugh Newman, 03:37)

• Changes in Academic Gatekeeping:

  • Recent openness to outsider discoveries, especially in the UK.
  • “A lot of discoveries are being made by non academics, non archaeologists. […] Now there's an acceptance within that.” — (Hugh Newman, 05:19)

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Egypt: Underground Mysteries & The Sphinx

• The Tomb of the Birds & Giza Plateau Caves:

  • Personal account of exploring forbidden cave systems under Giza, later bricked up.
  • Suggests significant undiscovered structures under Giza, aligning with modern scans and recent Italian research.
  • “It was the most spooky, mind blowing place I've ever been in, in my life.” — (Hugh Newman, 08:11)

• Dating & Origins of the Pyramids:

  • Questions if Egyptians built the pyramids or inherited them; raises Robert Temple's surface luminescence studies indicating construction earlier than accepted.
  • “I personally think the people who built Gobekli Tepe, they, who, they were somehow connected with the people who built the pyramids”—(Hugh Newman, 14:47)

• The Sphinx—Lion, Leopard, or Something Else?:

  • Proposes Sphinx may have been a leopard, not a lion, referencing contemporary leopard symbolism at Karahan Tepe and in early Egypt.
  • “Why does it have to be a lion? Why can't it be a leopard?... So there could be, why does it have to be a lion?” — (Hugh Newman, 17:10)

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Turkey’s Megalithic Sites: Gobekli Tepe & Karahan Tepe

• Rediscovery and Excavation:

  • Timeline from misidentification as gravestones in the 1960s to Klaus Schmidt's reinvestigation (1994) and public revelation (2000).
  • “They thought they were kind of gravestones…It wasn't until Klaus Schmidt…realized there was something significant going on there.” — (Hugh Newman, 19:39)

• Deliberate Burial & Preservation:

  • Mix of accidental slope slides and intentional burial for preservation and ritual closure.
  • “They put artifacts, statues in place, they re-erected and repaired two pillars, put everything back and then filled it in.” — (Hugh Newman, 23:08)

• Engineering & Terrazzo Floors:

  • Pre-pottery, waterproof terrazzo floors—historically thought to be Roman inventions—discovered in sites dating 9,000+ years ago.
  • “They found it going back to 9,000 or even actually older than that. Older sites have terrazzo as well.” — (Hugh Newman, 26:14)

• Slow Excavation & Infrastructure:

  • Excavations have slowed due to infrastructure and tourism development; recent campaigns to resume digging after controversy about olive trees.
  • “They have slowed down the excavation…because they were doing all these other things and now they're going to restart the excavations this year”—(Hugh Newman, 27:24)

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The Tas Tepeler “Super Civilization”

• Multiple Sites & Possible Pilgrimage Network:

  • 12+ related megalithic sites form a vast, interconnected culture; possibly a pilgrimage circuit rather than single-site settlement.
  • “It's almost like they were aware of each other going across the entire landscape as well…they could have been sighting themselves astronomically.” — (Hugh Newman, 34:13)

• Standardization & Lack of Developmental Progression:

  • Sites built in an identical style as if copied perfectly at the start—a “franchise” or super-civilization model.
  • “Nothing changed. It was almost like they came in perfect.” — (Hugh Newman, 34:07)

• Connection to Pre-Neolithic Hunter-Gatherer Traditions:

  • Hunter-gatherer “secret societies” as knowledge keepers; cave alignments, sacred numerology, and astronomical tracking dating back 40,000 years.
  • “They traditionally had seek hunter gatherer groups…as their kind of leaders…going back tens of thousands of years.” — (Hugh Newman, 39:32)

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Subterranean Mysteries: Cappadocia’s Underground Cities

• Derinkuyu and Beyond:

  • Hundreds of vast, multilevel underground complexes—some may be much older than the Hittite or Byzantine periods, possibly dating to the Ice Age.
  • “There's at least 200. It could be hundreds more. […] The first ones they carved out and they're more intricately done.” — (Hugh Newman, 45:00)

• Possible Connections to Cataclysm Events:

  • Caves could have been refuges during Younger Dryas cataclysms; similar underground features are being found closer to Tas Tepeler sites now.
  • “Could these have been places where people were hiding out when major cataclysms were taking place?” — (Hugh Newman, 48:23)

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Sumerian Myths, Anunnaki, and Ancient Astronauts

• Myth-Mapped Landscapes & Symbolic Parallels:

  • Noting similarities in iconography and mythology (e.g., Enki/Enlil fertility stories, use of leopards and vultures), suggesting “Sumerian” myths may recount the Tas Tepeler era.
  • “The stories of the Anunnaki…could actually be talking about what was going on in Tas Tepola region as well.” — (Hugh Newman, 53:07)

• Mainstream vs. Fringe Interpretations:

  • While open to the mystical or spiritual readings (Book of Enoch, divine beings, etc.), Hugh isn't pushing ancient aliens directly, but sees value in alternate translations.
  • “He believes [the Anunnaki] were spiritual beings, almost semi-divine, who would almost emerge from the ether and then come into form.” — (Hugh Newman, 54:37)

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Astronomy, Measurement, and Ancient Science

• The Karahan Tepe Solstice Alignment:

  • Accidental discovery (December 2021) of a mathematically precise winter solstice sunrise alignment illuminating a carved stone head—for 45 minutes—proving advanced astronomy.
  • “The sun was shined through that hole…And illuminate the stone head for 45 minutes and…move around the head…” — (Hugh Newman, 59:50)
  • “If this was…on the 18th of April…maybe a coincidence. But this is specifically only on the winter solstice…so it has to have been designed.” — (Hugh Newman, 61:10)

• Pre-Stonehenge Astronomical Knowledge:

  • Solstice alignments found at Turkish sites predate Stonehenge by 6,000–7,000 years.
  • “This predates Stonehenge by 5,000 years.” — (Podcast Host 2, 64:52)

• Possible Ritual Purposes, Water, and Psychedelics:

  • Sites may have been ritual centers, not settlements; evidence for water rituals, and possible use of psychoactive substances for altered states, suggested by mushroom iconography and abstract art.
  • “To me, this was a serious…They were serving sacraments…possibly psychotropic plant medicines.” — (Hugh Newman, 75:01)

• Metrology and Geometry:

  • Standard units of measure (megalithic yard, Persian foot, Sumerian foot, etc.) found throughout Tas Tepeler, echoing Alexander Thom’s findings in Britain, pushing back standardized measurement by thousands of years.
  • “The top of a T pillar…measures potentially three megalithic yards across. But the diagonal would measure eight royal Egyptian feet, and…the diagonal of the Square would imagine 16 Sumerian palms.” — (Hugh Newman, 86:35)
  • Discovery of geometric layouts: perfect polygons, Pythagorean triangles, repeat patterns aligning various sites locally and globally.

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Global Connections: Britain, Malta, Peru, Easter Island, Polynesia, and the Americas

• Latitudes, Distances, and Sacred Numbers:

  • Distinct differences like “1 million Persian feet” from Gobekli Tepe to Stonehenge; alignments between sites such as Gobekli Tepe, Nan Madol, Delphi, Coricancha (Peru), and more.
  • “Distance between Stonehenge and Gobekli tepe is exactly 1 million Persian feet.” — (Hugh Newman, 109:39)
  • “If you draw an exact line between the middle of enclosure D and the middle of the Coricanter, which is the sacred center…7,928 miles. That is the known diameter of the earth at the equator.” — (Hugh Newman, 106:17)

• Cross-Cultural Art & Symbolism:

  • Iconographic likenesses: V-shapes, goddess figures, “navel of the world” motif at Gobekli Tepe, Easter Island, Inca, and Malta.
  • “Hands on the navel…Gobekli Tepe means navel or potbelly hill. Oh, it's the same name.” — (Hugh Newman, 108:59)

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Giants: Myths, Archaeology & Suppression

• Giant Skeleton Accounts:

  • Thousands of historic accounts of giant skeletons in North America, Britain, Malta, and beyond—many lost to the Smithsonian, or otherwise vanished.
  • “We genuinely find it a fascinating subject. […] It's got to be something to it, because it shows up in every culture, every myth.” — (Hugh Newman, 138:02–138:05)

• Historical Testimonies:

  • Early Stonehenge called “the Giants’ Dance”; 9–14 foot skeletons reported; similar traditions and stories around Malta, Canaan, Enoch, and more.

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Stonehenge & Deep Prehistory in Britain

• Early Solstice Tracking:

  • 10,000-year-old pine posts at Stonehenge aligned with the solstice; implying the region's late Paleolithic inhabitants were already observing astronomical cycles.
  • “The solstice alignment, the famous summer solstice alignment at Stonehenge, there's a much older one there. It goes back 10,000 years.” — (Hugh Newman, 145:05)

• Doggerland & Early Migration:

  • Britain connected to Europe during the post-Ice Age era; Doggerland now submerged but formerly a migration path for ancient peoples.

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Calendrical Systems and Astronomical Motifs

• The Book of Enoch, Sumerian Calendars, and Metrology:

  • Notions of priestly elites using sacred units and geometry to encode knowledge; Enochian and Sumerian traditions as possible legacies of Tas Tepeler innovations.

• Venus Cycles & Rituals:

  • Karahan Tepe site may have a Venus alignment, echoing features in British and continental European megaliths and Newgrange in Ireland.

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Field Discoveries & the Ongoing Mystery

• Unexcavated and New Sites:
  • Many T-pillars are still lying exposed and unexplored; ongoing discoveries in Turkey and Mesoamerica (including new Olmec quarry finds) suggest much more lies beneath the surface.
  • “There are new discoveries still being made in places like this as well.” — (Hugh Newman, 160:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Multidisciplinary Research:

  • "These people back then, they had the same brain capacity as us. They may have been smarter than us." — Hugh Newman (04:22)

• On Preservation & Burial:

  • "They put everything back and then filled it in. And so it was like a strange... But other places like Carahan Tepe, they deliberately smashed up parts of it and then buried it, almost ritually decommissioned it." — Hugh Newman (23:08)

• On the Winter Solstice Event:

  • “We saw this head getting illuminated. That really kind of got us…It has to have been designed. And so this is what's so compelling.” — Hugh Newman (59:50–61:10)

• On Geometry Across Cultures:

  • "Nothing changed. It was almost like they came in perfect. It's strange." — Hugh Newman (34:07)
  • “This is science. Yes, a very early science. And the planning is extraordinary, the advanced planning.” — Hugh Newman (93:50)

• On Giants:

  • "We are, like, you know, we're kind of a little bit skeptical…We genuinely find it a fascinating subject…It's got to be something to it, because it shows up in every culture, every myth." — Hugh Newman (137:30–138:05)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:30 — Conference background, the ethos of Megalithomania
• 12:59 — Egyptian underground and Tomb of the Birds saga
• 14:40 — Gobekli Tepe, Sphinx alignment, and leopard theory
• 19:39 — The (re)discovery of Gobekli Tepe and site preservation
• 26:09 — Terrazzo floors and advanced engineering
• 32:35 — The Tas Tepeler “super civilization” and pilgrimage network
• 44:37 — Cappadocian underground cities, ancient origins
• 52:20 — Garden of Eden, Sumerian iconography at Turkish sites
• 59:20 — Karahan Tepe winter solstice illumination discovery
• 75:55 — Possible evidence of psychoactive sacraments
• 81:49 — Metrology and the megalithic yard in Anatolia
• 106:15 — Global geodetic connections (Gobekli Tepe to Coricancha)
• 137:19 — Discovery of unexcavated T-pillars and ongoing fieldwork
• 137:24 — The “giants” debate in ancient legend and archaeology
• 145:05 — Deep prehistory at Stonehenge, 10,000-year-old posts
• 155:24 — Ancient Venus cycles and their role in megalithic astronomy

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Final Thoughts & Recommendations

• Hugh Newman’s work stands apart for its on-site investigations, openness to interdisciplinary evidence, and willingness to reconsider ancient timelines.
• The hosts appreciate his measured skepticism: “He's not trying to sell you aliens or lost continents. He's just saying the math doesn't add up with the story that we've been told.”
• For deeper exploration, check out Hugh’s books and Megalithomania’s extensive YouTube archive.
• The episode ends with reminders that the ancient world’s mysteries are far from solved and that more discoveries are surely on the horizon.

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Find Hugh Newman:

• megalithomania.co.uk
• YouTube: Megalithomania UK

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“We are in the process of rewriting an entire history of the planet.”
— Hugh Newman (132:33)

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host 1]

Today I'm talking with Hugh Newman. He's an author, explorer and the founder of the Megalithomania Conference, which just hit its 20th year. And Hugh doesn't sit behind a desk and theorize. He goes out to these sites and gets his hands dirty. He co discovered a winter solstice alignment at Karahantepe, one of the oldest engineered sites on earth. We're talking 11,400 years old. And what he's finding there pushes back the timeline on everything we thought we knew about early civilization. It pushes back the timeline again.

[Hugh Newman]

At this point they should just leave

[Podcast Host 2]

a blank page and say, we'll get back to you.

[Podcast Host 1]

In this conversation, we get into Gobekli Tepe, underground cities, standardized units of measure that shouldn't exist yet, and a sneaky visit to some caves under the Giza Plateau that are now bricked up forever. Q also made a case that the Sphinx might not be a lion, it might be a leopard. And he's got the evidence to back it up. Oh, we also get into everyone's favorite subject, giants. Yeah, everyone except the Smithsonian.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's true.

[Podcast Host 1]

And we get into that. This one covers a lot of ground and honestly, the math alone is worth the ride. Yes, math. Let's go down to the basement.

[Podcast Host 2]

Hugh, welcome to the basement.

[Hugh Newman]

Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

[Podcast Host 2]

How do you go to creating the conference, which is. It's still running, right?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, for sure. Actually, this is our 20th anniversary.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh my goodness.

[Hugh Newman]

You know. So we like having a bit of a celebration this year. So this is the Mega Megalithomania Conference. So this is what we've been doing since May 2006. I founded this with John Martineau, who's also my publisher of the wooden books, and Gareth Mills. I pretty much run it myself with it with my own team now. And, and it was really set up and it's quite intriguing when you look at what's going on online nowadays. It was set up as a forum, like public forum, to have the alternative historical information and researchers with the academics, all on the same stage. But In a kind, in a very kind way.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Connecting with each other.

[Podcast Host 2]

Not a debunking debate.

[Hugh Newman]

No, no, it was just. It's a respectful way so we could have a multi disciplinary look at megaliths, ancient sites, the ancient mysteries, and, and have it as an open forum so that, so, and we, we now have top archaeologists and top historians and anthropologists coming along next to people who are talking about what they deem as fringe or out stuff. And it's actually quite fun. And so they've actually, they. A lot of the academics know each other, so that one or two of them came along, they had such a good time, they actually recommended it. So it's easy to get.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

Some really cool academics to come along.

[Podcast Host 2]

Like, how was that? Was he cool? And it's like.

[Podcast Host 1]

No, it's great.

[Podcast Host 2]

No, no.

[Hugh Newman]

And they're very. And there's no, we don't. It's not like online, you know, the whole Flint Dibble, Graham Hancock thing. There's all this big nasty kind of back and forth and we just don't have that. We're very, very nice, very polite, very respectful. And, and it's, and it works brilliantly. And we've stuck to that fun focus every year for the last 20 years.

[Podcast Host 2]

I'm glad you said multidiscipline because what I like about your research is you bring in acoustic engineers, electromagnetic research, all that stuff. I think that's missing in archeology.

[Hugh Newman]

I think you're right. Yeah. This is, this is one of the things that kind of bothers me a little bit and a lot of other researchers is that archaeologists do brilliant work. Don't get me wrong. You know, they are very well trained in, you know, preserving, digging up, analyzing these sites, dating it and everything else. But when it comes to things like astronomy, acoustics or mythology or symbolism, even subtle energies and things like this, it's not something they're, they're interested in or trained in. And I think this is where the problem lies in interpreting these sites and, and, and having a voice about these sites because you need to have this multidisciplinary look at them. Because these, these people back then, they had the same brain capacity as us. They may have been smarter than us.

[Podcast Host 1]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

We don't know. And so they were obviously into lots of interesting things. I mean, you just look at the symbolism at sites like a Beckley Te and the abstract art and creation of these sites. It's insane. It's just, wow. It's like these guys were just like master artists as well as Being master builders. And so I think you really need to approach it from all these different angles. I'm not saying I'm a specialist in all these different things, but when you, you know, you put it on a conference, it's great. You can invite people to come and you can actually share research. Would you mind looking at this? I want you to check this out, you know, and you can present it and they can. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize, you know, that astronomical alignment was there. That fits in with what I'm doing. And so I think, yeah, I think it's really important. But I think archaeology nowadays, as you know, I've, you know, with other guests you've had on this show, you need to approach it from all these different angles. It really has to be done.

[Podcast Host 2]

Why do you think there's gatekeeping?

[Hugh Newman]

I think it's just part of the paradigm. I think it's part of the nature of any discipline like that. They want to keep it within what they're doing. But one of the things I, I have learned, and this is a friend of mine actually comes conference, she is actually in her 20s and she's now doing a proper archaeology degree, doing a proper course about it. And there's actually a thing that she told me, we were having lunch after an event we were doing in, in Avery Stone Circle of all places, because there's a, there's a pub in the middle of Avery Stone Circle. And she was telling me now they actually open and they want information from alternative people because a lot of the discoveries being made, and this has happened a lot over the last decade or more, you know, several decades, a lot of discoveries are being made by non academics, non archaeologists. And so how do you address that in archaeology when the archaeologists are supposed to be the only ones making the discoveries and talking about them. And she said, now there's an acceptance within that. And so that's just now, though that's new, that's now happening now. It's not, it's not gonna probably help us with what we're doing at Gobekli Tepe and Carahan Tepe, because the archaeologists have their own agenda. They want their own kind of. They want to be the voice on it. But now things are. Appear to be changing, at least in England, at least. This one person I spoke to about it.

[Podcast Host 2]

I just. Speaking of gatekeeping, this reminds me, I just covered Andrew Collins and Tomb of the Birds. Is it true that you were down in that cave system?

[Hugh Newman]

Yes.

[Podcast Host 2]

Or you're not supposed to be.

[Hugh Newman]

Not really?

[Podcast Host 1]

Was this where you found that? Found a gate open? What's that story?

[Hugh Newman]

Okay, let me tell you this story. It's one of the stories we're going to get into. We've got a few I'm sure. So this was back in, I think November must be the year before last. And obviously Andrew had discovered the tomb of the Birds and also what became known as Collins Caves. Zahi Hawass named it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wasn't he banned for what kind of.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah but they're not that strict with that kind of thing. And this was back in 2008 when he first discovered it. So we went, you know, we were in Egypt doing a tour there. We were kind of with a group had finished. Me and Andrew were hanging about for a couple of days and we just thought, you know what, let's go and take a walk over there. You know, problem is I was wearing my shorts and like kind of, you know, tennis shoes or whatever I was wearing at the time could have been flip flops. And we thought we're going to have a quick look and, and, and, and there was no lock on the gate and we're like oh, oh this is interesting. So we thought I would just pop in and take a look, you know and I was not prepared. Luckily I had my, luckily I had my flashlight and my camera with me.

[Podcast Host 2]

So you didn't deliberate for one minute.

[Podcast Host 1]

Should we go in?

[Hugh Newman]

You just said we were deliberating a lot because you can get, you know. Sure, you get serious trouble for that now. And so yeah, we got in and at the front part of it, the tomb of area is actually kind of carved out. There's lots of little chambers. But then at the back there's like a kind of hole in the wall and you walk through there and there's this huge semi created chamber partly carved out. Then it leads through for about a quarter of a mile through these caves and it's, it's the most spooky, mind blowing place I've ever been in, in my life. I think it really kind of got me and Andrew had been in there since 2008 so he was over overjoyed.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

So we did all that, we filmed it, we got out, no one was around, no one saw us, thank God. And then now they bricked it up. Literally the last few weeks we, we had reports Andrew was over there. Excuse me, Andrew was over there and actually found. Had been bricked up. So you can't actually go back in there now. But the reason that I found that so interesting Because a few months later in March of last year, they discovered potentially all this stuff under the Giza plateau which interestingly the, the Tomb of the Birds and Collins Caves, or NC2 it's called, leads to, it's almost in that direction towards the central pyramid.

[Podcast Host 2]

Is this the research from the Italian group?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

So it's kind of correlates with what you found.

[Hugh Newman]

It does, weirdly. Yeah. And this is what was so interesting. I mean, and there's a lot more going on under the Giza plateau. I mean there's, I mean it's known about, you know, there's a lot of stuff known about under the Giza plateau. It's not just, you know, what the Italians have discovered. There's the Osiris shaft, there's, there's chambers underneath the Valley Temple and the sphinx temple that Robert Temple had been looking at. There's a whole kind of sphinx area obviously under the poor. The sphinx.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right.

[Hugh Newman]

And so it was, it was just to get under there and have this experience of going in to these caves really blew my mind. It was really got me. And, and now no one's ever going to be able to go in there again.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's a shame.

[Hugh Newman]

It is a shame.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean if you had to guess and date that those caves.

[Hugh Newman]

Well, the thing is, I mean the front part of it, it's all carved out. This is like created kind of tomb area.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep.

[Hugh Newman]

But then the back part is mostly natural. And so I don't even, I think very few people even in ancient times knew about that. I think that was like a very secret. So what Andrew writes about, it's a very secret, maybe an initiatory area where people go into, you know, some initiations or rites of passage and things like this we really don't know. And so, you know, there's something, you know, something odd going on there and the fact that they bricked it up.

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[Hugh Newman]

Suggest they don't want anyone else going in. Yeah, it is a safety issue as well. It's pretty dangerous because right at the end you have to kind of, if you want to go any further, you have to kind of go down this kind of almost. It's called the tube and I, I can't fit down there. Andrew couldn't fit down there. But a small person could probably squeeze down there. You might be able to get next time.

[Podcast Host 2]

Too claustrophobic. I can't do it.

[Hugh Newman]

And then that leads further along.

[Podcast Host 2]

Does this connect all the way to coffee?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, it's in that direction.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's interesting.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And some scans even. There was actually some similar SAR type scans done back in 2008 and that seems to indicate that it does lead towards Caf Race Pyramid and so it could be connected with that discovery that was made there.

[Podcast Host 2]

Has anyone done GPR in that area to confirm?

[Hugh Newman]

There has been some done, yeah. I think more needs to be done, a lot more, because there needs to be verification of what was going on there. Because we have, you know, the Sarscan technology is very controversial. This is Filippo Bionde, Armando May and other team members and they found potentially outrageous depths of these kind of cylindrical chambers going down towards these giant square chambers and other features. But someone needs to go on that in an official capacity with GPR technology and just go round the Giza player just to verify, you know, what they've discovered because they've had other people using the similar technology and finding the same things as them as well. That's come out recently.

[Podcast Host 2]

I think Tomb of the Birds came up because I was, I was studying the Hawara labyrinth.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

And it, it, it's once again, I don't know why we're not prioritizing exploring these places. They, they seem to be the most important discoveries on Earth.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. I think with Egypt, it's like there's so many sites you can just when you, you know, it's overwhelming when you go there. I can't, it's hard to cope with. And they're so magnificent, all of them. Pretty much, yeah. So I can understand why they're kind of hesitant also. There's a lot of political stuff there. There's a lot of kind of issues with permissions. It's all very, there's lots of bureaucracy, but when it comes to getting under the geezer platter, there's, there's a lot of water there. You can't go down that far anywhere. Be a huge amount of pumping to get it out. Huara, on the other hand, is interesting, but it's all collapsed. I mean, you can see like the shape of some of the labyrinth when you go there. Yeah, but it's all collapsed. It's all so much sand on top of it.

[Podcast Host 2]

And flooded, I think.

[Hugh Newman]

Flooded as well, because you've got, you've got the water level there as well. You've got, you've got canals that have been carved right through it. And so just to get down there again, it's a huge pumping situation, huge amount of money and effort. But there are teams now, independent teams looking at that, connected with the Sarscan people. A gentleman called Trevor Grassy has been focused on that as well. And so, you know, see what happens. Let's see what happens, because I'm sure it kind of has to be done. That's, that's the great thing about the Internet nowadays, because you can, like, you put pressure, you know, into, like, you know, what should be looked at partly what happened at Gokli Tepe, which we're going to get into, you know, and so that's another place that, you know, that needs to be. You know, it feels like, what. Why are people going so slow? Why are people kind of just digging down, getting on with it? But there's always reasons why they can't do everything immediately.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, before we go to Turkey, let's, let's speculate for just a second. Did the Egyptians build the pyramids or did they find those?

[Hugh Newman]

That's a good question. That's one of the big, big unknowns. I mean, you look at the, the technology to create that, it's outrageous. I mean, I, I personally think the people who built Gobekli Tepe, they, who, they were somehow connected with the people who built the pyramids, because Gobekli Tepe's got the same kind of quality, the abstract construction, absolutely. Superb quality of stone working. And I think there's some connection there because they found, they found connections between these two areas going back to the time of Gobekli Tepe. Now, whether they were built, official dates of what, two and a half thousand, 2, 600 B.C. that's a whole other question because you've got people like Professor Robert Temple, he's done some surface luminescence dating on some of the stones of some of the pyramids on the Giza Plateau and actually found dates of at least a few hundred years earlier. So then that discounts. Right, those pharaohs who are credited with doing it. So then that raises more questions, even if it's just a few hundred years, that disputes the whole thing. But I think they could be much older. I think actually the underground areas are much older and the pyramids may be added slightly later, you know, towards the official date. So that's just my opinion. More research obviously is being done out there. So.

[Podcast Host 2]

So where do you. Where do you stand, like on Robert Shock's research on the Sphinx and John Anthony West.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Yeah, yeah. The water erosion.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

Around the kind of channels, around the kind of sphinx pit, which is really, really interesting. Actually.

[Podcast Host 2]

It looks like water to me.

[Hugh Newman]

It does, it does. And I think that he was pushing for dates, you know, going back to the time of 11:12,000 years ago at

[Podcast Host 2]

some point, Younger Dryas Flood.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And there's more, but it was much more lush back then, the whole area. And so you could imagine there's a lot more water. And also there were. There were channels, like kind of going all the way up to each of the pyramids anyway.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

There's water right. Right there, right next to it. So I think it's quite plausible that it's that old. And I think, again, I think if anything on the Geese Plateau connects with Gobekli Tepe is probably the Sphinx and what was going on underground as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Have I heard you speculate that the Sphinx is maybe a leopard and not a lion?

[Hugh Newman]

That's something I have speculated about.

[Podcast Host 2]

Why would you think that?

[Podcast Host 1]

That's, that's just very interesting.

[Podcast Host 2]

I haven't heard that before.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, because. Okay, you've got. There's a few things. I mean, this is. This goes back to Karahan Tepe because. Which is 11,400 years old, Southeast Turkey, one of the sister sites to Quebecli Tepe. There's a lot of leopard symbolism there. There's also. And it's the same era potentially as the Sphinx, if we're looking at these old dates, because I know Graham Hancock and others and Shock and John Anthony west, they were saying that the Sphinx faces the rising of the equinox and Leo in 10, 500 B.C.

[Podcast Host 2]

right.

[Hugh Newman]

Because that's what would rise on the equinox as part of the whole processional kind of cycle. And I thought that was really intriguing because at Carahan Tepe, you Have leopard symbolism everywhere. Not lion, leopard. You get it at Gobekli tab. You get it all the sites. It's very strong symbol found there. And when we found our winter solstice alignment, we also believe we've possibly found an equinox alignment as well. Because the head that we've been researching that has the light get on the head and illuminate it on the solstice of the winter solstice actually faces east looking towards the rising of the equinox and Leo. So we speculate that there could be a leopard to the people of Tas Tepla or the Carahan Tepe, Gobekli Tepe people. Also, if you go to Egypt, you look at the old gods of Egypt, like Thoth or Tahuti.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep.

[Hugh Newman]

His consort or wife, Seshat, she was, you know, an architect. She was supposed to be an architect. She was also into metrology, measurements and geometry, things like this. And she was always wearing a leopard skin outfit. So she was the leopard lady almost.

[Podcast Host 2]

I didn't know that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. So you have this leopard connection with ancient Egypt and possibly then, you know, so. And it was quite strong back then. I mean there's other leopard symbolism and lion symbolism back then, obviously, but I. So there could be. Why does it have to be a lion? Why can't it be a leopard? Why it could be Anubis dog? This is what Robert Temple suggests. So I think there's. Is possible. But again that we've got no clear evidence of that. It's just speculation at the moment because it's. Somehow it's got. This makes it connect with Gobekli Tepe and Carahan Tepe.

[Podcast Host 2]

So at Gobekli, can you just paint the picture for us? 1963 discovery, they think it's gravestones. And then 1994 with Klaus Schmidt and what was that like?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, that's. That's. Yeah. Because. So back in the 60s, we have Peter Benedict and there was a team of archaeologists doing kind of surveys or scans walking around the landscape and they found Gobekli Tepe. That's what's so strange. They found some stones lying around. They thought they were kind of gravestones, Islamic gravestones or Byzantine kind of ruins. Didn't think anything of it. It wasn't until Klaus Schmidt, German archaeologist, who was doing work at a site called Navali Chori and also another cycle, Gertru Tepe, I think as well, and a couple of other places. And he noticed because of his research at Navali Churi, which we can get into this is. I Want to talk about?

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

They found. He found the symbolism was the same. So this is probably the same era. But when he looked at the hill, he could see it was a huge artificial hill, you know, like a mound, a tepe or a hoyuk, you call it, in other parts of Turkey, and realized there was something significant going on there. And the family who owned the site found these two statues there and actually presented them to the museum. One of them was this very fertility. There's a guy with the erect phallus. Yeah. And they were kind of embarrassed by it. You know, they gave it to the museum. The museum wouldn't take it. They. There's all this debate about it. There was another sort of top of a T pillar kind of broken, with a kind of lizard coming off it in 3D relief. And when he saw those in the museum, he said, where did these come from? Found out where they came from. Got to the site in 1994 and eventually thought, right, something going on here. We need to kind of get into this. And, and this is when they started the excavation, I think 1995.

[Podcast Host 2]

Why didn't. Why did he not publish or go public with that for a few years? Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

It didn't come out to the year 2000.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

I don't know that. I don't know. I think it. In archaeological circles, it was being talked about, but I think they just wanted to make sure what they got was valid. It took a lot of work to get even down to the first layers because it's so heavily buried. That's the thing about these sites, they're buried, properly buried. That's why they're so well preserved.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right. Why is only a small percentage of Gobekli been excavated all this time?

[Hugh Newman]

This. That's another good point. I mean, when it comes to Gobekli Tepe, it's a huge site. We're talking multi acre site. It's massive and so it's very deep. It's buried. So there's a huge amount of debris and rubble. And they have to do it so carefully. I mean, they've removed thousands of tons already. That's the thing. People don't realize how much they've removed. I can show you a couple of it just so people can get a sense.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

So we can have a look at a couple of images of Gobekli Tepe.

[Podcast Host 2]

While you're pulling that up, how do you feel about the intentionally buried theory? Was it.

[Hugh Newman]

That's another good question. When it comes to Gobekli Tepe, there was. What is known as a slope slide occurred. So you've got the enclosure there at the top of the, the image there, that's enclosure D and all around that. After Gobekli Tepe was constructed in 9600 BC for about 1500 years, it started growing almost like a settlement. So structures were being built up in the hill just above it. So eventually they caved in at some point and actually filled in some of the larger enclosures. And then this was then later covered over, rebuilt on, then covered over again. And then when they eventually decided to leave, they covered the whole site. And so there is definitely deliberate burial, but also some accidental, accidental burial as well. These slope slides that happened, were they

[Podcast Host 2]

trying to preserve it at the end of a huge.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, I mean that's, that's, that's the unusual thing because I think there's a bit of both. I think ideas change through this whole time frame, this 1500 year time frame and they would accidental burial. They still preserved it though, even before they buried it. They put artifacts, statues in place, they re erected and repaired two pillars, put everything back and then filled it in. And so it was like a strange. But other places like Carahan Tepe, they deliberately smashed up parts of it and then buried it, almost ritually decommissioned it. Okay, so you get that as well. You get this broken element to it, then it's buried and but, but whereas certain parts of Karahanta are preserved because that's what they wanted to make sure people could see. And this is where we get to the winter solstice and we'll talk about shortly. But so I think there's a bit of. But I mean if you look at this image, this just shows you what we got here. Yeah, this just shows you the kind of site. That's the site there, that's the main area. This is like the south east quad southeast depression they call it where a few of the other 60ft wide each. And then if you look at the main site here, this is the GPR scan they did of the site. And these are all the other enclosures they haven't even uncovered yet.

[Podcast Host 2]

Would that push the date back if they got went deeper?

[Hugh Newman]

Could be. I mean the thing is though, they have got to bedrock already, so. And that's where they get in the 9,600 BC dates. Okay. But before Klaus Schmidt died, he claimed and he said this to me and Andrew when we were there once, he said that he, he thinks they're going to find stuff going into the ice age there. Wow, 14, 000 years ago. And now other sites in the area are older than Gobek. Now they're finding sites like Chakmak Tepe, which is actually not too far away. The sites up near the Tigris river, hundreds of miles away, called Bonchoclutala, and a couple of other places.

[Podcast Host 2]

I was gonna ask you about that. Tarlo's older.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, some are older, yeah. They don't have the big T pillars. That's what. That's what distinguishes Gobekli Tepe. So compared to other sites, that's actually. That's when I first went there, before they built the roof over it.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's Murderers Row right there.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, you got me, Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins, obviously. And this is like back in 2013 when I first visited there. So actually when Graham first visited there as well. And it's a absolutely fascinating place. And this is just a scan I got of one. This is enclosure. Relatively recently, a few months ago. They've actually cleared more of it now. So these. These giant T pillars were actually kind of found like this, but with all the rubble around it holding them all up in place. And so they preserve. A lot of it was preserved. That's what's so interesting to me. You know, they actually preserved this and. And the. The bedrock that they cut down into the bedrock and created the floors and the curbs around the edge which they would slot T pillars into. I think all these walls that you see here, these small brick walls, they were added later, in my opinion. Yeah, because I think there was. It was very. Everything was balanced. It was kind of held in place maybe by certain types of scaffolding or other stones.

[Podcast Host 2]

So is that floor level and polished?

[Hugh Newman]

It is level. Yeah, it's level.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is pre pottery.

[Hugh Newman]

Yep. And they also. In some of the floors. I'm not sure what the next image. Some of the floors, I saw the astronomy, but some of the floors actually made of what's called terrazzo. Now, this is like a lime cement. And this is outrageous. You have to get. You have to heat it up to like 850 degrees, you know, just to kind of get it hot to create this lime, this lime cement called terrazzo. And they thought the Romans invented that. That was, you know, because they're pretty smart, the Romans. But now they found it going back to 9,000 or even actually older than that. Older sites have terrazzo as well. So some of the floors are flattened limestone, carved out the solid rock. And other. Other floors, some of the other areas are actually, like, made of this kind of very waterproof cement called Terrazzo. And so that's insane. So they were doing that and they were making it waterproof, which is interesting.

[Podcast Host 2]

It is because.

[Hugh Newman]

And like you see on here, you can see the curb around the edge. Edge, you know, and so they could have had water in here, you know, and it would have stayed in there, you know, it wouldn't have drained away unless they chose to drain it away through certain holes that they created. So that's another interesting element of these sites.

[Podcast Host 2]

Is there controversy right now about Turkey holding up excavation?

[Hugh Newman]

I've heard that there is, there is, there has been some controversy. There's a gentleman called Jimmy Corsetti of Bright Insight. I know him quite well actually. I've been assisting him with some of his research. He looked into this because they slow excavation there dramatically. But they, but when he. But then we realized they were building infrastructure, they got funding from the wef, which is a bit dodgy in my opinion.

[Podcast Host 2]

It is.

[Hugh Newman]

And they are focused on building a whole tourism thing there as well. So it's an investment project as well. They've got to monetize it and make it work for them because it cost a lot to excavate these sites. It's not, it's not a cheap process. And when they see how much there is to do now, my God, it's outrageous amount you actually got to do. So technically they have slowed down the excavation and because they were doing all these other things and now they're going to restart the excavations this year and get back into it. They've cleared away the olive trees which were damaging the ruins potentially. This is something that Jimmy Corset campaigned against and potentially he may have even changed their mind on it because he, he's, he, he's like, he's full on, you know what I mean?

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah. Jimmy didn't make a lot of friends there.

[Hugh Newman]

No, you don't make a lot. Yeah. He went out there though and got to see and filmed everything and got access to stuff and that was, it was outrageous.

[Podcast Host 2]

His video is outrageous.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, him, him. And give a shout out to Mike Collins wandering roof as well, because he also was there and he did a lot of the research with him. And they kind of looked at all this and like. And they've actually now moved the olive trees. And so whether Jimmy made that happen or whether it was their long term plan is still people are a bit unclear about. But it happened. So it's a win either way.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And so now they, they've got no excuse not to get down there now and start Doing some excavation. They've now announced they will be doing some. So whether that's due to the pressure that or whether it's just something they had in mind. Anyway, I think there was a lot of the archaeologists were responding to the pressure and so I think they may have. May have caused some changes there. So it's great. You know, the stuff's happening and I can't wait to see what else is going on there. I mean, because when you consider how little has been excavated and it, what it has been excavated is mind blowing already.

[Podcast Host 2]

It really is.

[Hugh Newman]

So what, what else are they going to find?

[Podcast Host 2]

So if they can't go deeper because the bedrock is, is it just going to keep getting wider? Is this a whole complex? Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And this is it.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean, what was it used?

[Hugh Newman]

Let's jump back to this.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

This is, I mean, this is how big it is. I mean you look at like the bottom right there, that's what's kind of being excavated. So we have these enclosures. You've got enclosure D at the top. On the right there you've got enclosure C which is like a double enclosure. It's like a double stone circle. And all the other ones, this whole scanned area a places they've only just started excavating and so there's a lot more to find. And they're now finding outside of this as well because they found, because they're, you know, when this was all being built, this is probably like a series of stone circles, no one living up there. And then over time, over a few hundred years, people were turning up, they're going, whoa, whoever built this is. I want to be around this. This is where to be. And they built this settlement around it. So there's all these structures built up around it. So it's like, it's like a village, like a small town.

[Podcast Host 2]

Have they found evidence of dwellings, cooking?

[Hugh Newman]

Potentially? Yeah. They're now saying that this is one of the. There's a big debate for many years, but now it's like I said, it seems like initially there was no one really there. They were coming in from Chandler. This is where all the you get. We have a water source, they have rivers and springs there of caves there. People are also, you know, living in as well. That's only half a day's walk. It's only a few miles away. You get there in half a day and back in the same day, you know, to go backli tepe. So it's not too far. And then I think eventually they got tired of going Back and forth. And they started building these stuff, smaller square structures which you see kind of around the edge. And they're the ones actually collapsed in later. But even they had T pillars inside them, which is odd. And so are they really domestic? Are they actually. Were people actually living there? 1. One of the theories that we're developing and kind of looking at as a possibility is that there's all these sites now. I mean, we can actually look at if we jump back to, oh, I need to go back to the first one just to show you, just to give you an extent of what is going on here.

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[Hugh Newman]

This is it. These are all some of the sites that are being excavated. So it's called Test Tepla. That's. I call it the Test Tepla super civilization. That's my kind of term I use.

[Podcast Host 2]

I love it.

[Hugh Newman]

And there's 12 sites potentially, but there's many more. There could be 38, it could be a hundred. You know, these are the two numbers we've heard and whether. So I don't know if people lived at one site. I think they may have traveled around the different sites through the year and they built abode so anyone could stay in at different times. And it was a kind of like carrying on from the hunter gatherer tradition where you would move around to different sites because they know they were doing that in before this, earlier than the Gobekli Tepe in the Levant.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

There were the Tufian sites down there going back to 14,000, 15,000 years ago. And they, they didn't have permanent settlements, but they Built places and they would move to another place for hunting grounds and migrations and plants they were collecting and then make their way back over the year. So it could have been a pilgrimage route between these different sites because you have exactly the same symbolism. T shaped pillars style statues, even burials. Now they're finding all are the same style. And it's almost like the builders of Gobekli Tepe, the first sites that were put there, they were. Everything then was duplicated. Nothing changed. It was almost like they came in perfect. Nothing changed. It's strange. It's like you think there'd be a development of different styles and other such things, but the style maintained itself.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, it's almost like a TGI Fridays. They just build it.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, like prefab.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's the same.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, it's almost like a franchise.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's like a franchise.

[Hugh Newman]

That's what it feels like. I mean, it's very, it's very bizarre because. And, and some, a lot of these sites, you can actually, we did some analysis of this. If you stand at the top of one site because you're often up on top quite high places and not all of them, but some of them, you can see the peak of the other hill in the distance and then to another place. So it's almost like they were aware of each other going across the entire landscape as well, which could have been astronomical. They could have been sighting themselves astronomically. They could have been lighting beacons certain times of. They could say everyone could see each other. We don't know. But it's really, really intriguing when you realize it's not just one site. Gobekli Tepe, which has been 5% excavated, all these sites, and a lot of them are now being excavated. Carahan Tepe's got a lot of excavation being done. Sefer Tepe, you've got a few other sites like say Birch and others. But why so many sites? I mean, this is why I believe this was the world's first civilization, or what I call a super civilization, because the elements of civilization were different back then. They didn't necessarily have writing as we know it. They may not have had certain things you class as civilization, but they had other things going on. You know, ritualistic elements, the geometry, the metrology, astronomy, which were highly advanced, especially for this time.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure. I mean, I know there's not a lot of writing, but the metrology and the astronomy speaks to engineering, that there's, there's intentional engineering happening at these sites. So clearly they had to communicate that to pass this information down Somehow are we finding any of that? Like, here's how to do this.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm finding that's what I'm writing about at the moment, actually. I'm finding, you know, there are connections that are being made in other parts of the world now, is what you mean. Other. Going across other areas.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right. Like if you look at the Ed Food text and stuff, it's like, here's how we built this.

[Hugh Newman]

Oh, he's. Yeah. No, I mean this. It's very. There's very little. And we want. One of the clues about how they built stuff is the quarries. What we're finding there a lot is like in Quebec and at Carahan, so. But there's an area they kind of leave. They leave a half finished T shaped pillar. Huh. You know, actually in situ, which is really, really interesting. I mean, I'm not sure if I've got an image over here, but that really intrigues me because if you've got that going on, then that suggests that. I don't think I've got an image actually, but that suggests that. No, I don't have one right there. Sorry. But that shows you that they were leaving certain things at the site or near the site to say, hey, this is how we did it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

This is where we got the stone from. This is the birthplace of this temple you're looking at. You know, this is like really important. I've actually written a few articles about that because you have that with like as one quarry, biggest obelisk in the whole area. If Egypt was left in the quarry, half finished, you get it on Easter island. The biggest Moai statue is still in the quarry, half finished. You get it at Baalbek. The biggest stones there, 1650 tons still in the quarry, unfinished.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Same with Gobekli Tepe, same with Carahan Tepe. And so there's like, almost like a tradition of you leave the biggest stone or evidence of how they did it in the quarry as a little kind of mark. Say this is where this came from,

[Podcast Host 2]

Like a maker's mark.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. This is like, it's almost a Masonic thing.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

You could see it like that because the masons do that as well. Apparently there's places in Bible lands that have all this kind of tradition as well. When you look at some of the quarries there, and I find that really intriguing and so. But also you've got to remember that they're mainly built with limestone as well. So it's relatively, relatively still impossible for me or you to do it, probably but they were building with lime, so you could cut it, you could cut it with the tools they had relatively easily. But when you get into the intricate stylings of everything, it's like, oh my God. I mean, how did they come up with this? But where's the legacy of that? It's almost like it emerged, it blasted out of nowhere right at the end of the last ice age, just after the younger dryas and boom, here we go. It's almost like. But we've now what we're doing for Minor JJ's book. It's JJ Ainsworth, my partner or my co author I'm working with. We're looking at the kind of lead up to that, where it all came from.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's where the big questions are, how

[Hugh Newman]

it all came to be. And, and people aren't going to like what we say. I mean, because we're not, we're not super out there, you know, we're not super controversial. I really believe these hunter gatherers were a different class of people that people don't realize. There were elite groups within these hunter gatherers that are often not talked about, but they were the ones who had this higher level of knowledge and it was passed down generationally and they were super advanced. And they would also think they were taking various substances, you can say psychedelics.

[Podcast Host 2]

We're going to get into that. I think in one of your books. Don't you talk about secret societies back then?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I've written about that in a couple of papers, articles that I've written. Because you look into hunter gatherer societies, you, you go back far enough even into the Paleolithic times. I might have an image of that as well. There's a couple of images that you can actually find evidence going way, way back of these kind of societies going back to the Paleolithic era, which suggest that they were very advanced back.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh yeah, the, the hatch marks, these.

[Hugh Newman]

This is Alexander Marshak and he. This is like. This is like counting, this is like numerology, this is astronomy, counting the moons and things like this. And there's certain things they were doing way back in Paleolithic you were going back 40, 000 years. Some of these places suggest an advanced understanding of astronomy and the solstices, you know, which is where we get to Carantepe eventually. We're going to look at that and they seem to be obsessed by it. There was this thing that they were actually aligning many of their caves. Let me just find the right one here. They were lined you even see at Carahan Tepe itself actually, this is actually the top of Carahan Tepe. They have all these etchings at the top of the hill. You're not allowed to go up there anymore. And, and below at Sephirothe as well, you find these etchings very similar to the Paleolithic etching. So you see this lineage of information coming from the Paleolithic Europe. And they traditionally had seek hunter gatherer groups traditionally have secret societies as their kind of leaders, their ritual adept leaders who were like there were different groups within different hierarchical societies. And this goes back tens of thousands of years. People don't realize this. They weren't just randomly going around hunting and gathering. They were organized. They planned things. They chose specific caves that are aligned so the entrances would have light coming through on the summer solstice morning or the winter solstice sunset or something like

[Podcast Host 2]

this, which would take generations just to observe that pattern.

[Hugh Newman]

Exactly, exactly. And this is actually Lascau for instance. We actually ask you about. This is the, this is the most famous cave for example in France. You know, in the Dordogne Valley of France. I managed to luckily went here this summer where I got found a family holiday which turned into a full on exploration much to this disdain of my family. But that's what happened. And, and this one is aligned to summer solstice sunset. Now they're not aligned, it wasn't built like that. But they, they chose their caves and entrances and put their paintings in specific spots where it would illuminate only on the solstices at that time of year. And there was a lot of research done on this. And they found that a majority of the caves there, not only did they align to the solstices, they were chosen because they had this passageway that would illuminate the whole passageway on that particular time of the year. But also paintings were put in spots where it they would get illuminated or carvings were placed there. And so much so that this analysis was done by these amazing French researchers and they found that this is all scientifically analyzed, this is all published in academic papers. And they found that more often than not, you know, there's no way this could be chance. You have the winter solstice mainly plus the summer solstice and the equinoxes aligned caves and illuminations taking place. This is actually a map of all the different caves where they were and how they're aligned. And that really blew my mind because this knowledge was going on potentially 40000 years ago, right up until the time of Gobekli Tepe. And then now we're finding it there very similar ideas, very similar principles. And so you can see that there's a legacy of knowledge going back into the Paleolithic Europe era. But also there were much older cultures in different areas. Coming down from the Russian steps, coming up from the Levant, even in Egypt, the Natufians and other such peoples who had different types of knowledge, like the Natufians, for instance, they understood geometry. They even understood standard units of measure and construction techniques and building into the bedrock and things like this, which they weren't supposed to know about 14,000 to 15,000 years ago ago. So they were smart people as well. And they were like, starting to kind of. Kind of have settlements, but not. They were kind of moving around, as I said earlier, like pilgrimage routes, following the different migrations of animals, but choosing sites in specific areas where they could take measurements of the sky. They could, like, they would build in a certain manner, align and orient things in a certain way, so it would kind of continue their traditions. And that. That is really. That really blew my mind. When you start looking earlier than Gobekli Tepe, you find all these elements in place. And there's actually a very Natufian site right near Gobekli Tepe. This is what we mentioned earlier. Checkmate. That again. It's got Natufian stylings to it because it's got, like, the. It's got, like, holes around the edge where wooden poles could have had roof supports like them Toofians used to do.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

So you get things like this going on. So, yeah, the more you get into it, the more you dig into the kind of academic papers, there's nuggets of information in there which kind of a lot of people haven't heard about.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, let's take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to talk about Karan Tepe Solstice 2021, where you almost got yourself into some trouble. Be right back. So before we jump into Karan Tepe and you're almost arrest by the Turkish government, I wanted your quick take on Derinkuyu, the underground cities of Cappadocia. Who built those? How long. What were they used for?

[Hugh Newman]

They're very interesting.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

The underground cities of Turkey are amazing. Really?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

The most famous one, as you said, Darren Kuyu, this is in the whole Cappadocia area. This is. It goes multiple levels down. They've got these huge rooms, all these different floors. It's quite intricate, actually, some of it. There's actually. That's one of many though. There's like 200 at least of that size that.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean 20000 people got in there.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, I mean there's at least 200. It could be hundreds more. This. They're finding them now not too far from Gobekli Tepe. This is what's in a town called Midiyat. It's kind of in between Gobekli Tepe and the Tigris area where you get like Kortik Tepe and Bonchoclutal, these other sites which were a bit older than Gabe. They're finding them there. They find them now in Konya as well, where you have chattel Hoyak nearby, which is set a seven and a half thousand year old site. But these underground cities are officially only a couple of thousand, three thousand max years old. Some of them are attributed to the Hittites, some are attributed to the Byzantine people, even the Christian era. But at Derrinkuyu itself, as you, when you go and investigate them, you can actually see the first couple of levels are more intricately carved than the lower ones. Because the lower ones are later as they dig down. It's later in time. The first ones are. The first ones they carved out and they're more intricately done. There's a different quality to them. There's not. You can see that they've done it all with like natural tools. But when you get a bit lower, you start to see metal tools have carved them out.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

So the first layers, it could be super ancient. And one of the primary investigators there many, many years ago tried to work out where all the stone went, where did it all go, where did it end up? And he found a riverbed. We found loads of the limestone had been chucked in there, the rubble, the kind of dust and everything else. And found Paleolithic tools in there. Wow. And mesolithic tools. So we're talking like. And he. And he thinks it could be really old going into the Ice Age. So that's what's so interesting about them. And also that it could be with this whole kind of cataclysm event, you know, the whole younger Dryas and all this, which was, you know, Gobekli Tepe was built within a couple of hundred years at the end of that kind of whole drama that.

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[Hugh Newman]

these have been places where people were hiding out when major cataclysms were taking place up on the surface, which were known to have been happening in that part of the world? I mean, so I think there's something in both of those ideas. I mean this is all just discussion at the moment. No one's really sure, but the fact that some of them are now being found closer and closer to the whole Test Tepele super civilization, you know, area, I think that's gonna, they're gonna find correlations between them especially now because what we're going to look at short Karahan Tepe, they're digging into the ground that they're subterranean elements even in test Tepla itself. And so they were building into the ground right there at some of the sites. We in fact even discovered a tunnel there at one of the sites that we're not allowed to kind of talk about too much. But we made a video but didn't give a location away.

[Podcast Host 2]

An artificial tunnel?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, we're talking 100 meters. So what, two or 300ft dug into the ground?

[Podcast Host 2]

I never heard that.

[Hugh Newman]

Solid rock.

[Podcast Host 2]

For what purpose?

[Hugh Newman]

No one knows. They say it's a well. But when we looked at it, it was like, whoa, hang on a sec. Where. What on earth is this? And so that's actually. That's actually our site. They're starting to excavate as well, so they're going to probably find it anyway. But we got to know the locals and the family, and it's very similar to, like, Derinkuyu. It's very similar to that idea of underground elements being constructed at these sites. And so there is actually a connection now between Tastepola and the underground cities.

[Podcast Host 2]

The underground fascinate me because of the intentionality of them. How the. The giant stones are there for protection, bringing fresh water up, bringing fresh air down. Yeah. Animal husbandry happening in lower levels. It's just. It's very intricate.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And you have them rolling doors. Yeah, the big circular doors.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

And so they would roll them back and forth into place. They're like giant stone discs. Now, some of those are being found in caves at. In Shandler, right near. Right in the center of the whole area of Tastepola. And so there's actually caves there. They're quite famous. They're all along the. Where the river used to run in Chandler. There's actually a couple of cases that have these circular discs. And I was like, hang on a sec. Therefore, could these then be as old as this? Is this where the people are living, you know, and is it the same? And the same ideas were then transported to different parts of Turkey as well. And so, yeah, there's a lot more going on than people realize in that area.

[Podcast Host 2]

How many people were living there at the time in Chandlerfa, in this whole area? I mean, these are thousands, hundreds of thousands of people.

[Hugh Newman]

I mean, when it comes. Right, this is what's one of the big debates about the whole Tas Tepola region. Because Chandlerfa itself had not only a river running through it, very strong river. There was super lush area. It had all these caves where people were living in just above the river. It had springs there. There's four sacred springs that now feed what are known as the pools of Abraham, where all the sacred carp are. You have the. The cave of Abraham as well, where he was said to have been born, which is all carved out in a weird way, and it's all water in it. And. And it makes you wonder if all these kind of biblical sites in Chandler were actually adapted from the whole Tas Tepla region. And because there was actually a site in Chandler for itself called Yemenahale, this is where the earth, a man statue, was found. Or the Balikla gold statue view. And that. That's got obsidian eyes, no mouth. It's kind of in this sort of pose with a stump for its legs where it would have been placed in a prominent position.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

This phallus kind of out with a V neck motif or insignia. And so there was a major site in Channel Ear for itself as well as all the big sites like a Beckley Tepe and Camera Han Tepe. So it's a very. Yeah, and I. I think most of the people were living around Channel earth going back 10, 12, 000 years and then they spread out these outer sites that then became settlements themselves. And so, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot going on in Chandler for city itself.

[Podcast Host 2]

I like Andrew Collins theory about how the Garden of Eden could have been. Could have been a place there. Yeah, could have been an actual place.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, Lots of it lines up because this is the ancient city of Odessa. Yeah, this is where we have, you know, many of the kind of stories of Adam and Eve and things like that kind of emerged from these kind of zones. And, you know, there's a lot of debate about that. I mean, Andrew's the expert on all this kind of stuff. But, you know, Chandlerf is a prominent place. People don't realize that. They think it's just the city that's near Gobekli Tepe, but it's not. There's something going on there as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Where are you with. Are you finding Sumerian iconography, Anunnaki, that sort of thing? Are you finding that at these sites?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, what J.J. has been looking at, and I think Robert Shock and a couple of other people before were looking at the. Some of the symbolism. Is this very similar to Hittite or kind of similar type of symbolism, but 7, 000 years later, which is odd, you know, and the stories of the Anunnaki and what. Klaus Schmidt actually wrote about this in his book. You know, he wrote about that he believes there's some connection with what's called the Dooku Mound or the Anunnaki potentially could have been in and around Gobekli Tepe, Something Andrew's written about, something we're going to be looking at from a different perspective because we found lots of the myths and the stories could actually be talking about what was going on in Tas Tepola region as well. And Carahan Tepe being one of the kind of areas we're focused on because you have all these kind of kind of fertility myths with Enki and Enlil yeah, yeah. And that, you know, there's lots of fertility symbolism at sites like Karahan Tepe.

[Podcast Host 2]

Do you subscribe to some of the. More I don't want fringe is the wrong word. But some of those out there theories about Anunnaki being alien hybrid programs, that

[Hugh Newman]

is that I find that fascinating. I mean, trust me, I've read Zacharias Sitchin's books, but I've also read the books of Christian o' Brien and Barbara Joy o'. Brien, the Shining Ones. Genius of the few. You.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

That they're more my kind of thing. I mean, because even. Even in them, you know, his translations of the Sumerian text is still pretty mind blowing.

[Podcast Host 2]

It is.

[Hugh Newman]

And bizarre. And he. He believes rather than aliens coming down from the sky, their. Brian's looked at it more like. More like they were kind of spiritual beings, almost semi divine, who would almost emerge from the ether and then come into form, which is, you know, just sounds as crazy as alien stuff really. But that was his idea. The only way he could really explain it because that's how it's kind of described. They were kind of semi divine that became human into form eventually. Then they were creating humans as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

This sounds a lot like the Book of Enoch as well.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, it kind of kind of fits in with all that as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

Very odd. Yeah. When you start looking into it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay, so December 20, 2021.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

Were you incarcerated? Were you in that Turkish prison?

[Hugh Newman]

So this is. We're talking about Carahan Tepe. Yeah. Let me just bring up. I wanted to show people this because this, this is what it looked like before it was kind of being excavated. I think we need to kind of see this. This is like some back. I think this was filmed I got in 2018 with full permission from the landowners. So this is this area, the front area there. This is what's all being excavated now. Now and now.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wow. It looks like nothing.

[Hugh Newman]

This is somewhat changed if we look at it now.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh my goodness.

[Hugh Newman]

This is what it looks like. Look at this. So a huge amount has been excavated and we're talking a lot of this has been carved into the bedrock as well. We're not just talking, you know, built on the bedrock. A lot of it has actually been carved out of the bedrock. They were working with the bedrock in a way that no one else had really done before. This. This is an epic shot. Look at this. It's mind blowing, but yeah. So this is, this is an area of the site. This is called the pitch rhino structure AA and the Other one there with the serpent tail, with all the pillars. That's Structure A B, or the Pillar Shrine. And then you've got the main enclosure it leads into, which is about 70ft wide, called structure A D. Now, if you notice on the right there, that's all carved out of bedrock because it's going up a hill to one side, whereas all the others. There would have been 18 T pillars around the edge, five of them carved out of bedrock with those benches. And so it's a huge amount of work. They've got kind of carvings, wells and other such things in it. But really what kind of grabbed us was this area here. This is called, what, structure ab, or the pillar shrine. But these. There's 10 of these pillars. This is all carved out of bedrock rock, which is unheard of at this time. And then one freestanding pillow, which is almost like the shape of a serpent. On the back western wall, you've got this head, it's about this big, emerging out, carved again out of the bedrock. It's absolutely insane when you. When you kind of look at this. It just absolutely blows my mind. So this is what we saw when we turned up on December 20, 2021. Myself and JJ, we had this serendipitous series of events, if you. That's a polite way of putting it, where we were planned. We heard about it all just being exposed. You know, the first time you could visit it was in, like, September, October 2021. Our friends had been out there, and we're like, Christ, we want to get out there. But we couldn't get out there till December. That was the earliest we could go. And then we heard that they were going to close down the site around Christmas or January, because we have. We have sort of a friend who worked in Istanbul University. You kind of give us information, keep us updated quietly. So we got out there for December. Eventually. Eventually we made it there, and I kind of turned up there on the evening of the 19th. We knew the landowners because I've been visiting there for five or six years previously, before it was excavated, as you saw in the. The aerial shots there. And they gave us permission to go in there and fly my drone just briefly to so I could get a view of the whole site. Then the military guys who also worked there called Istanbul because they saw someone flying a drone and tried to get me in trouble. But I kind of had permission at the same time. But he didn't realize I wasn't supposed to. And that's. Anyway, this whole series of problems started and Then I got a call from my friend who owns, you know, the son of the landowner, the guy I flew the drone with. And he said, oh, you can't come tomorrow because. And we had to go tomorrow because JJ hadn't been there yet. And we're like, we want to see the site when it's sunny and everything. All the officials are turning up, and if you turn up, you're going to get arrested, you're going to get in trouble. We're like, really? He said, what? I said, what time will they come? He said, oh, like, late morning. I said, we'll come early morning. How about that? So. And they say. But he said, no, they might come early morning. I said, we'll come earlier in the morning. We'll come up when it's dark. We don't care. So we got there just as the sun was rising, not realizing we were going to see anything. And suddenly we walk up to the site and we see this head illuminated. And we're like, what the hell?

[Podcast Host 2]

So you didn't plan on a solstice visit? You just happened to?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, we think we were thinking about in there one of the mornings, but we weren't. Didn't know if we were going to discover anything. We checked it all, you know, the maps and everything. We couldn't see anything obvious. But because it. This happens 10 minutes after sunrise, the alignment's slightly different to what you'd expect unless we. So we saw this head getting illuminated. That really kind of got us. And this is kind of what happens. The sun was shined through that hole, that car. This is all bedrock, remember?

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And illuminate the stone head for 45 minutes and. And the light would move around the head, then sort of move around like this, and then go down onto the neck over a foot as the sun. So as the light moves around, it goes through that hole and only that hole, and it becomes. Because it's going at a sharp angle, you're actually getting this really thin blade of light.

[Podcast Host 2]

So if it's bedrock, they had to have planned this well in advance.

[Hugh Newman]

This was. This was master astronomer, priestly elites doing. This was outrageous design to come up with this and then all the symbolism associated with that as well. And it would go through, you know, the sun would rise up, you know, over in that direction, you know, the southeast. It would go in between the two T pillars of the main enclosure, so right in between them and then through that hole and then illuminate the stone head. So that really blew our minds when we saw that. We Couldn't quite believe it. And this is like the sequence of how it gets illuminated now in the modern era, because we went back there the following year, went back there this late last year as well. Well, and. But back in 9,400 BC, the earliest dates they've got for this site, they found. We checked this all out using Stellarium and all these different programs and what worked it all out, the sun would be slightly higher on the head, so it would illuminate it even more perfectly. Okay, it was. So it's definitely a deliberate design.

[Podcast Host 2]

So if. So, if we're dating this 9,400 BC, then the technology has to predate that by thousands of years.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, this is, this is what was developed, I believe, in the Paleolithic era because they were measured, they were aligned, they were choosing caves that would align to these solstices. So they had an understanding of it coming into Tas Tepla before anything was even built there. They must have done. Because you don't by chance just come up with this. If we look at. This is actually a time lapse. This is fascinating. If you actually look at the head. Yeah, speed it up. You got it. Actually, this is what happens. So we were very fortunate. We managed to get in there, there and it actually gets illuminated. I mean, I've got. I've got archaeologists saying, no, no, it's just pure chance. Come on, pure coincidence. I'm like, man, if this was. If this was on like the 18th of April or something, then it might be a bit. Yeah, it could be a weird coincidence. But this is specifically only on the winter solstice, where the sun is in its most southerly position on the horizon before it starts moving north across the horizon towards the equinox. Knocks and the summer solves. So it's only time of the year, reaches that point the sun rises, that it. The head gets illuminated. Any other time of year, no light either. Light doesn't come through or it goes nowhere near the head. So it has to have been. It has to have been, has to have been designed. And so this is what's so compelling.

[Podcast Host 2]

And on that day. Aren't we seeing events like this all over these ancient sites?

[Hugh Newman]

Not particularly, really. Well, you think about it, right? So little has been excavated and we believe there's something at Quebec Tepe. We believe there's an alignment there, but it's been so built over, rebuilt, damaged, covered up and everything else. But I think as these excavations continue, we're going to find more solstice alignments over and over. Again, I mean there's a couple of other potential ones. There's enclosure F at the Beckley Tepe. There's possibly one in enclosure D Agabeckli Tepe, which we're pretty convinced by, but none of it has. This was absolutely, today you can go and you can turn up on the winter solstice. And we did it, we did it. This one just gone. And just watch it, you can watch your hand happen. And it's like, what the hell? I mean, to me this is massive. I mean, not because we discovered it or anything, we, you know, whatever, you know, it's. This is a real thing. Proving that they were studying very high level solstice orientations and alignments and phenomena in 9,400 BC. That isn't supposed to have been happening back then. It just isn't. It's not supposed to be happening until like Stonehenge where you get the precise alignments like this. Obviously the Paleolithic caves are a bit different. Different because they're natural, right? And that they, they were choosing places where the light would come in and then they would paint things, you know, so it would get illuminated or carve

[Ryan Seacrest]

things like, hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway.

[Podcast Host 2]

It is.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Smart Water, Healthy Choice, Continental arrowhead, Red Bull, St James, Tillamook and Special K. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

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[Hugh Newman]

But this is a whole different thing.

[Podcast Host 2]

And this predates Stonehenge by 5,000 years.

[Hugh Newman]

6 to 7,000 years.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh my goodness. So what do you think was happening at this site? What were they doing?

[Hugh Newman]

This is where it gets kind of interesting. We believe that this was a ritualistic site. We believe there's all this fertility symbolism all these pillars are really phalluses. You know, you have to. You have to.

[Podcast Host 2]

You can see it.

[Hugh Newman]

You have to suggest that this is one of the ideas. There's other symbolism there where there's men holding their phallus as a large statue, which we can look at in a moment. But there's. There's something going on there. These were studying the stars. There's just the star alignments as well that Andrew's looked at. Other people have looked at. But really, this is just outrageous. You can't just design. You know, this isn't by chance. I mean, if we look at some of the reconstruction ones we're actually looking at here. This is my friend Kevin Esslinger. We've been working on putting the site back together to see if any pillars would be in the way. They're not. We've also put a roof over the top of it because the archaeologists 100 claim this is. There's no evidence for any roofs. There's only a couple of negatives where they think roof beams might have been found. They think they all had roofs on. So there'd be no. There'd be no. They don't look at the skull sky. There's no astronomy, no solstices. It doesn't happen. So we're like, okay, we'll put a roof on it then. So we did. We put a roof on exactly based on. All the pillars are. And there's a perfect gap between two of the outer pillars and the two central pillars.

[Podcast Host 2]

So it still works for the light

[Hugh Newman]

to come through, even with a thatch roof on it as well. We put. This is a traditional Native American roof that Kevin's focused on looking at different designs. And even if you have to have windows and roofs, because it'd be pitch black black, if you just put one there in a small area, you get a perfect alignment taking place as well. So this is. To me, this is like, you know,

[Podcast Host 2]

they don't like it.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, they don't like it. I mean, so. So even we don't believe there were roofs, but they might have been. And so if evidence turns up, they find wooden beams or they find evidence of actual roofs. And I'd be interested because we could then present this. But the fact is it works with and without. So this is what was going on there. There was all. This is just a little kind of 3D AI thing we put together from. It's actually from an illustration by Dan Lish. I want to give him credit. It was originally just a kind of pen and ink Illustration. But we turned it into this. But we think there was something really interesting going on here because they were obviously developing their astronomical skills. There was ritualistic activity clearly taking place there. They found all sorts of artifacts with bizarre symbolism on like, which, you know, almost all sorts of things. Like, we talk about the leopards, we talk about men holding their phallus. We can look at some of them actually. And this is. Oh, this is actually the roof they're planning to build, which we'll get into in a little while. Let me just find the right thing because there's some very bizarre. I mean, this. Let's have a look at this one. This is the vulture statue they found in the. The new enclosure at the top of the hill. This is about 2 1/2ft tall, so probably like this.

[Podcast Host 2]

And the vulture shows up at all these sites. That doesn't it?

[Hugh Newman]

It does. It's a vote. Yeah. This is what we get on a pillar 43 at the Bekley Tepe. Again, this is broken, like here, here and here in three places. Like, most of the statues are, like, ritually. Ritualistically broken. This was found also up in the new enclosure. Again, I've got another look at the pillar shrine there. But let's look at. And also there's evidence that these were full of water as well, which we believe we mentioned earlier. There's. I think there's water symbolism here is really interesting because if these had water in them, it becomes much more ritualistic. There's things that could have been taking place here.

[Podcast Host 2]

I think you're right because the walls are so smooth that it looks.

[Hugh Newman]

It almost looks like it. It's very bizarre when you start looking into it. Yeah. Let's just go. Yeah, let's have a look at this. This is. Again, this is the work of Kevin Eslinger. We were kind of experimenting to see. Because they look like pools of water. There's no natural water here here, so springs or at Gobekli Tepe. And yet people somehow may have lived here as well. And so we were working out if they could collect rain water and stay full of water. And they pretty much could. They're very well sealed. And also, you know, we have this as well. This is like speculation about what it may have looked like. I mean, it could have just been a spa. Right. It could have been a megalithic spa. That something I would quite appreciate, I'm sure. But here's some of the. This is some of the artifacts and the symbolism which could explain what was going on here. Because you've Got like this, this is like this huge. These are perfectly cut stone bowls with these holes, kind of donut shaped stones with animals placed within them as though they're going through that porthole stone that the winter solstice comes through. And so they're, they're having. And then they've got these maces, like these stone mesa. You can just about see on the top right image of with all these carvings on them and other such things. So to me, this is a ritualistic burial of some artifacts. This isn't, this isn't just what they were preparing, like their beef stewing or anything like that. This is something else. I think you can see that here some of the other relatively newly discovered statues with 3D reliefs on them, all sorts of symbolism. It's quite broken. Karahan Tepe. So it's quite hard to find it. This is actually a new room they found at the site. And this, to me this looks like something Sumerian or Egyptian.

[Podcast Host 2]

It does.

[Hugh Newman]

Utterly bizarre. And so this is brand new. This is like what, 25ft wide, something like that. It's not huge, but it's pretty big. And so, and this and a lot of the base there is carved out of bedrock. And so this would be again, would be water sealed as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

So again this is. It looks like a level polished floor.

[Hugh Newman]

It is, yeah. They were, they were really working that bedrock in a profound manner. Yeah, really, really beautifully. And this is one of the statues they found this they thought originally was a female statue, but then they, you can actually see it's got a phallus there as well. Yeah, this was found in the, the large enclosure at the top of the hill. Look at the haircut though. That's very similar actually to what you see on some of the goddess statues in Malta and Gozo.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

And then this one. Yeah, the whole Santuna stories really blows my mind actually. This is what this, this is the big statue they found on the rock.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

In the New England. It's caused a bit of a Sensation in late 2023. But notice it's got like a, almost like a false beard on it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep, look at that.

[Hugh Newman]

And then they found this smaller statue again with this, what appears to be a false beard. And what do we find in Egypt? What do we find on the sphinx? That's right, we find these kind of false beards. I said, what on earth is that doing here? And clearly the man, the gentleman on the right, this seven and a half foot tall, this is a giant. Okay. He's holding his phallus he's got emaciated body. So you see his ribs. He's even got a haircut. It's like shaved around here. And hair coming down the back. Bit like a mullet, a bit of a kind of Mohawk mullets. So they were pretty. And this is very much when you have shaved heads and things like this. It's usually associated with ritual specialists. You know, this is a traditional kind of. This isn't like king or warrior. This is like a kind of ritual specialist. When you have the shaved cranium, like

[Podcast Host 2]

a priest or a shaman or something.

[Musical Performer]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And you get that very much.

[Podcast Host 2]

Could any of these sites been colored pigment painted?

[Hugh Newman]

There is, there is evidence of that now. Yeah. I mean, actually this, if we go to this one, this is the boar statue. Oh, that was found at Gok Tepe. This, they found, this was found in the main enclosure. Enclosure. Dear. This is huge. Like a full size kind of boar statue with fangs and everything else. And in its mouth, both they found black, red and also white pigment on some of the body as well. You can see the red pigment in there. So they had black, red and white. Now, I know that's interesting to you because you had. I think Tim Hogan was speaking about that being the colors of Egypt and

[Podcast Host 2]

colors of the Templars.

[Hugh Newman]

Colors of the Templars. Some people say the colors of Atlantis as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah. So they're the colors of the white files.

[Hugh Newman]

They're the three. Yeah, look at the white files. Of course. So they're the three main colors they found at this site. They had found it previously on another boar statue in enclosure C many years ago and thought nothing of it. But now there's potentially the whole site might have been painted.

[Podcast Host 2]

We've got to get Kevin on that. Yeah, we'd like to see that. Yeah, because that's spectacular.

[Hugh Newman]

That would be interesting actually. Yeah. So that really, that really interests me that the whole idea that they could actually be painted and the same could be, you know, Carahan Tepe as well. So one of the things they found inside the main enclosure at Karahantpe, you know, which I think, you know, could have held sacraments, could have prove it's kind of ritual with these giant plates. These are like this big. Some of them. These are carved out solid stone. Polished.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep.

[Hugh Newman]

Notice the one, the dark one in the middle there. That is like almost like a indentation smoothed out.

[Podcast Host 2]

It looks like a beveled restaurant tray.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And this is. This is like basalt. This is granite. This is extremely hard. Some of it's diorite. I think how could they carve Exactly.

[Podcast Host 2]

Granite.

[Hugh Newman]

Exactly. How could they do that? And so this is what, this is one of the, one of the mysteries that. And they found hundreds of these. Now when this was put on display, they only found a handful of them

[Podcast Host 2]

because limestone, yes, you can cut that with obsidian.

[Hugh Newman]

But they've got, they've got very hard bass out as well, you know, like almost diorite level. It's really. Is there volcanic rock in that area? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have. So you have Karakadam Mountain in. This is like the big. It was once a volcano to the north. This is where the first Einkorn wheat was growing on the, the slopes of actually, you know, going back to not long after Quebec. But they found lots, there's lots of volcanic. But some of this stone is from completely unknown areas. I don't know where he came from. And so this is why the wider super civilization idea could be a reality at places like Carahan Tepe and Gobekli Tepe. But these are just some of the plates. They found these placed specifically on the benches in between the T pill around the edge of the main enclosure. But now they're finding them in all the enclosures and placed often in very specific spots under the porthole stone in the kind of almost altar type areas and things like this.

[Podcast Host 2]

Do we have a guess why? I mean that there's something, There was

[Hugh Newman]

something on these plates.

[Podcast Host 2]

That lip is there for practical reasons to hold something.

[Hugh Newman]

There's something on these plates. So I don't think they were serving, you know, cucumber sandwiches or anything like that. I think this was a serious. They were serving sacraments.

[Podcast Host 2]

Could there have been human sacrifice blood?

[Hugh Newman]

There is, there is, there is some evidence of that. At a cycle chainu, which is further

[Podcast Host 2]

to the north, there's evidence of that.

[Hugh Newman]

They've found a human haemoglobin along with animal and human bones all piled up in a place called the Skull Room. And they think it could have been human sacrificing there as well going on. So that's, that's, that's another interesting place that's fair. Further to the north, it's around a thousand years after Gobekli Tepe and Carahan Tepe.

[Podcast Host 2]

Because they can date that hemoglobin.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, yeah, they have, yeah, they have done that at this, at these sites and so, but, but these, I think I got this feeling that these were what sacraments were covered. I'm talking about possibly psychotropic plant medicines.

[Podcast Host 2]

Now what do you mean?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, I'm talking about magic mushrooms. I'm talking about potentially other things that they. Henbigh and other things that may have grown in the area. Because when you, to me, when you start looking at the whole stylings and design, 3D relief carves, the abstract imagery of Quebec Tepe and all these sites, it's not a normal human mind is coming up with that. This is outrageously kind of abstract. It doesn't make sense. If you were just a primitive or relatively primitive hunter gatherer, you wouldn't be building and creating these beautiful relief carvings with this abstract symbolism and design and maintaining that over generations allowing unless you had a real kind of very unusual mind to put that together. To me. So I think there's something odd going on here.

[Podcast Host 2]

Does amanita or any of those type of mushrooms grow in the area?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, you get. Yes, you would get that because they, they, they were known to have aurochs and different cattle and so the dung there, it would grow for sure.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

They found there's lots of quite a lot of mushroom sort of shape symbolism and parts of these sites as well. You can actually find that on many of the different statues. And also there's a type of grass that grows all actually a small kind of partly acacia. So you burn that in high quantities, you're gonna get DMT smoke coming out as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Interesting.

[Hugh Newman]

And also they were brewing beer. There's evidence of calcium oxalate being found on some of the large stone vessels, sort of tubs they found at Gobekli Tepe so far.

[Podcast Host 2]

And they're not supposed to have beer yet, are they?

[Hugh Newman]

No, they're not, but it would, I mean, so there's, there's potential evidence. This hasn't been 100 proven that they were brewing beer, maybe accidentally, gently, it could have just left it to rot and ferment and they realized, oh, it made them feel a bit funny when they drank it. So they. So that is. That can put you into more like a beer gruel. It would be. Rather than a beer. Could.

[Podcast Host 2]

Could Ergot grow on that?

[Hugh Newman]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host 2]

He could.

[Hugh Newman]

Exactly. This is the point. And so what they found in Raka Check Cave down in Israel, which is older than Gobekli Tepe, is not only evidence of early beer production, you know, we're talking probably accidental beer, but they found evidence of Ergos. Well, wow. So. And that was usually associated with a skull cult, you know, decapitating skulls, sacrificial kind of stuff as well. And so was that happening at Gobekli Tepe? Because they found skulls there with holes drilled in them so they could have been strung up. And there's some of the T pillars of holes carved on the overhanging tea part. Holes drilled through. So you could just be stringing up skulls and hanging them there. But also. But this, this. So this idea of psychedelics in ancient times, to me, suddenly all comes clear. This is like why they were studying all these obscure things, like studying the stars, having these ritualistic practices, these fertility symbolism, all this unusual iconography, which is really hard to decipher because they were kind of off their heads.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

Really interesting substances. And other cultures throughout history after that were known to be into this kind of stuff.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, if ayahuasca goes back 10,000 years, how many thousands of years did it take to figure out that process?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it just goes. It goes on and on and on. And then they were experimenting to put it in. You know, I think when you're kind of in some kind of alter state, you're going to get into things like

[Podcast Host 2]

geometry, you're going to see the fractals, all of it. Exactly.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And so this is. So this is why I'm so fascinated by this. This is one. I mean, the whole of Quebec Tepe is all of the sites there are geometrically laid out. And so this one is a very complicated one, actually. Which is. Which was first? This, this shape was first discovered by Alexander Tom.

[Podcast Host 2]

Megalithic yard. Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

All that kind of stuff. Yeah. And the stone circles of Britain, all that. Different geometries.

[Podcast Host 2]

Can you give us just a quick recap of what.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

Alexander found.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, for sure. I've got. She got a couple of images here. I'll just show you.

[Podcast Host 2]

This audience knows the Bengalithic yard.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. So this is. This is. This is the man. Absolutely love this guy.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

Absolute legend. So this is Alexander Tom. He was around. Around really, you know, in 1938, he started surveying stone circles. He was a Scottish engineer. He studied, taught at Oxford University. He was fascinated by stone circles and the megalithic site. So he went round with a theodolite on his own sometimes, you know, Theodore Heavy, they should be called. The giant metal objects are really hard to carry about. And surveyed hundreds of stone circles and he came up with all these. And he found all these geometries, you

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on the app download today. Within them, ellipses, perfect circles mainly, but also these very odd flattened eggs and things like this. And that really got him, you know, and like. And so he proved that, you know, not a majority were circular, but a lot of them were these shapes. So he proved that they were using very sophisticated geometry to lay them all out. He also discovered the standard unit of measure called the megalithic yard, which is 2.72ft or 0.83 meters, which he found over and over again at these sites. And if we go to Gobekli Tepe, this is one of the geometries.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh my goodness.

[Hugh Newman]

In enclosure C. Are you finding standard

[Podcast Host 2]

units of measure at these sites?

[Hugh Newman]

Oh, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna get into that. Okay, yeah, yeah. This is very, very interesting stuff. So this is a perfect flattened circle, modified type B. I mean, this doesn't really roll off the top tongue, but enclosure C is, he's got it down. I mean, that's what kind of gets me. Here's some other geometries. Okay. The middle one there is enclosure D, which is A, an egg shaped based upon 2, 5, 12, 13 Pythagorean triangles.

[Podcast Host 2]

I understand when I think about that, I think about an orbit.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

Because this is like two ellipses merged.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And also on the left there you've got some other geometries. You've got obviously camera hand on the right there. And so we keep finding these different geometries. And to me, this can't just be accidental.

[Podcast Host 2]

No.

[Hugh Newman]

Something odd about this. And then when you get, you start looking a little bit more closely, you feel like Naptiplya in Egypt has the same geometry as Gobekli Tepe. This goes back to seven and a half thousand B.C. potentially. So what's going on here? And then, you know, there's alignments between them that form geometries.

[Podcast Host 2]

Nan Madol. Fascinating. I see it's connected.

[Hugh Newman]

It's just all, it's all connected.

[Podcast Host 2]

And what about the Henges? Do they fall into the same ellipsis pattern?

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, you do get that in England. Yeah. So this is what, this is what we're developing. I'm actually writing about this as we speak. I'm finding so many correlations between Alexander Tom's work and what we're finding in southeast Turkey. And as more sites get uncovered, more and more these geometries keep turning up and it's blowing my mind. So let's, let's just look. Let's look at the metrology for a moment. This is insane.

[Podcast Host 2]

Let me stop you for one second. How the heck is Namidal connected to this? This is, that's Polynesia.

[Hugh Newman]

No, well, this, well, what I've got here, this is, this is from the little book. So what we did, we started laying out sites around the planet using Google Earth and other such things and just seeing if there's any interesting alignments between Gobekli Tepe sites, all that, test table sites and others around the world. And there are bizarre ones. I mean, you look at the alignment here from say Birch to Gobekli Tepe to Tasli Tepe, it goes, and it somehow goes through Karahunj in Armenia.

[Podcast Host 2]

Here it does.

[Hugh Newman]

And it goes to reach his nano doll 7 1/2 thousand miles away. And like if that could be a coincidence. Okay, could be a coincidence. I, I admit that. But then you look at the work on the right there you've got Gobekli Tepe and Baalbek of a perfect diagonal, of a six fold square geometry, which is the work of Howard Crowhurst. The same under the triangle at the top left there, Gobekli Tepe, Kurt Tepe and Harbert zuvan. These are three testable sites. All form a perfect 3, 4, 5 triangle across the landscape. Landscape. And so that we think they were surveying a 345.

[Podcast Host 2]

So a Pythagorean triple.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Or Pythagorean or most of it's Pythagorean actually. Yeah, most of it is. And so what, you know, that's what intrigues me because that is happening in Britain. We've proven that Robin Heath, Howard Crowhurst, Alexander Tom, all proven that. So now we're finding it happening here. And then you think about like passages from the book of Enoch. Oh, and I'm taking chords, the angels are taking cords and going to measure size and shape of the earth. And you realize, hang on a sec, this is what they were actually doing at this time. So even the book of Enoch could be referring back to this Tastpola era where they were doing this kind of thing.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right to catch people up. Enoch traveling above the earth with Uriel and is shown 364¼ days around the

[Podcast Host 1]

sun, lunar cycle, solar cycle, all things

[Podcast Host 2]

that they're not supposed to know know. And I think Enoch was problematic for the church at some point.

[Hugh Newman]

Definitely.

[Podcast Host 1]

Was it James Bruce who discovered it?

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, in Ethiopia.

[Hugh Newman]

That's right. It's. It's fascinating to me. I mean, the Book of Enoch's almost like a kind of. It's the book of Testepola, in my opinion. I think if people start looking into that more and as more things get discovered there, they're going to find more and more correlations between these different elements, these different different passages, these texts that were written in ancient times. There's going to be more and more connections. And one of the other things, you know, they're talking about going to measure this is where the ancient metrology gets into it, because all these have got specific distances between them. So this is going to hurt people's brain, this. But this is some measurements I took of the different parts of Quebec Tepe. Now, don't. You don't need to look at it too closely, but fundamentally what we're seeing here is not just that we're finding the megalithic yard whole number as well. It's all about whole numbers. You don't have half measures or things like that. It doesn't.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

You know, so I'm just. Only if I find a whole number. But what I found was, is that I'm very influenced by the work of John. Michelle and John Neal, who were the. Who wrote Ancient metrology back in 1980, I think. And then John Neal has written a whole series of books about the maturity. And they don't think there's one unit of measure like the megalithic. They think there's a whole system of different variations of the foot length length, which are based around the British foot, but there's all slight differences between them and they're all harmonically connected.

[Podcast Host 2]

Harmonically connected. Meaning.

[Hugh Newman]

I think I've actually got a. I'm sorry, I'm getting.

[Podcast Host 2]

I'm getting excited. I get. The math gets me excited.

[Hugh Newman]

Well, you look, you look at this, for instance, this is like, you know, this is actually the. The top of a T pillar is two double squares. This is an interesting way of seeing it. So if you've got a double square, that's the fundamentals of building things like this. So that measures is potentially three megalithic yards across. But the diagonal would measure eight royal Egyptian feet, and the diagonal of the Square would imagine 16 Sumerian palms or 5 Royal Egyptian feet. So you have all these weird correlations within one system. So they weren't just using one unit of measure, they were using multiple units and each one was like a kind of quality, like a different accent of the builders who were doing that part of the site and they wanted to. It meant something. So it was like a language, right? Yeah. So, you know, this is where the whole idea of, of number and myth and stories, a lot of it comes from number and measurements and a lot of these old measurements at subdivisions of the size and shape of the earth. So they must have had an understanding of the size and shape even in Testepola. This is what's so intriguing.

[Podcast Host 2]

So these numbers are divisible by the circumference, Is that what something like that?

[Hugh Newman]

Various ones are, yeah. Some of them are, yeah. And like, as you get a close up of like enclosure D, for instance,

[Podcast Host 2]

with all this data, how do you know what to throw away away?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, this is when you get into anything like. So I've got a few like the numbers here. I don't want to burn people's brains apart here, but this is the numbers here. We've got a few half measures here, like 13.5 or so. I want to just show some examples, but you only, you know, you could put A list of 20 different types of 18 different types of foot measurements or remonds or palms and things like this. But they're all, they're not exact numbers. They're not 18 or they're not 17 or not 12. They're point something. So remove all the anything with a point point.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

And just go with whole numbers. And this is where all the magic starts coming out. Because you realize one measurement could be something another whole number of another measurement, Another whole number of another measurement. So you keep finding all these correlations, then you kind of work downwards until you get to a few different ones they were definitely using, which really are the Persian foot, which is 1.05ft. Or there's also the megalithic yard is used all the time in Testepola. You've also got, got the Sumerian foot, you got the Assyrian foot, you got the Saxon foot, which isn't actually Saxon, it's actually much earlier than that. And this is so bizarre. Let me see, I've got the right image here. Now let me just go back a couple of shots here, because this is. Oh, it gets really, really interesting to me. Yeah, let's go back to this one. Because these variations of the foot. They're like. They're harmonic fractions different to one another, another. And so you could actually just, you know, put them in a table. You can actually calculate it in your head. Arithmetic, you know, in arithmetic, really easily. You don't need to work out on calculators because it's like 11 to 12 or 21 to 22 or. Or, you know, 58 to 56. You know, the differences in the slight variations. If you do it just like. Like that in your head, like the ratios. And so it's quite easy to understand. So I think they were using four or five different different measurement systems, and they're all based upon the measurements of the Earth. So again, we go back to the Book of Enoch. They were going to measure, right? And I believe that they were doing that. They were sending teams out around the planet and they were. They wanted to understand what was going on with the Earth. So the earliest phase of Testepler, they were doing this. And this is where the Book of Enoch kind of picked up that kind of story, right? They're talking about taking these chords off and going to measure. And so that is where. Where I'm. I'm still into this. I'm still writing about this. I'm still going further into this. But the evidence is there now.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean, what evidence are you finding artifacts of people?

[Hugh Newman]

Just the numbers. You can just work with the numbers. This is what's so interesting. So this is something that the archaeologists have zero interest in. I couldn't even get officially any of the measurements of the site. I had to go in and use every old map I could find and work it all out. So some of these may be a tiny bit off. I'm still working on this. But when you find numbers, you find geometries, you find orientations. They even mark north, south, east and west accurately as well. They do using modular geometry, which is the work of Howard Crowhurst. So the modular geometry is like on the right there, where you have squares placed upon each other, but always north, south, east, west.

[Podcast Host 2]

Do we see any of these measurements used in. By the Olmecs, the Aztecs, Incas, anything on that side of the. The Earth pro.

[Hugh Newman]

I haven't looked at that yet. I'm so focused on this in the British sites as well. But like on the. Like the image on the right there, you see, you've got. There's. There was some research done by these researchers from Tel Aviv University. Avi go for, I think, in Gil Hackley. And they found if you draw a point in the middle of each of the main enclosures firms it forms a perfect equilateral triangle. Triangle. So. And they're the same measurements on each side. So they were working with equilateral triangles at least. So that's what they realized. But then Howard Crowhurst came in and realized that alignment. The yellow line between the two central T pillars of two of the enclosures is actually a triple square diagonal. And so this is where. And suddenly. Oh, so if that's the case, then you draw other squares around that they knew north, south, east and west. They weren't supposed to know that then.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

That wasn't supposed to happen till the pyramid age, you know, that kind of thing with the Great Pyramid. So little, little things like that, you don't take. You take. Most people take for granted. They think, so what? But they must have known. How close is it? I mean, we know this is exact.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's exact.

[Hugh Newman]

It's perfect. Yeah, it's absolutely perfect. And so this is what's. So it gets. And it gets weirder and weirder the more you start looking into it. And so this is, you know, I'm at the kind of halfway point, maybe two thirds into this, this mega chapter I'm doing on this for the new book. But I think it's going to turn out if we can get some exact measurements out of some of these sites, get permission to go in and actually measure them, it's going to go. We're going to go crazy. But then you have sites, you have other sites in the whole region, obviously. This is fascinating to me because you have double square, again, the modular geometry base, hiding measurements. There was actually an old quote, I can't remember the quote exactly from John Michelle Gel. He's like my kind of hero. He wrote the book the View Over Atlantis and also Ancient metrology. He wrote the book Megalithomania.

[Podcast Host 2]

He did.

[Hugh Newman]

Gave us permission to use a name for our conference. Yeah. Funnily enough. And what he found was, he says it's always like a Stonehenge. He said it's always the top stones, the lintels that will hide the measurement systems of the priestly elites. It's not the lower ones because they'll all get damaged and knocked around. You look at the top stone. So this, this double square is the top part of the T of the T pillars. So, so the. So he was right. And he was saying that 20, 30 years ago. And now we're finding that at Gobekli Tepe, the top part of the site is where the magic is where the real measurements and that their kind of knowledge is positioned. And so this is, I mean, this is interesting to me. If these measurements are encoded insight on the T pillars themselves, then we can work out what they were trying to tell us.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right.

[Hugh Newman]

Mathematically least.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes. So if the T pillars are, if they leave one in the quarry, then this, this looks like engineering being passed down.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, this is, this is very much. This is science. Yes, a very early science.

[Podcast Host 2]

And the planning is extraordinary, the advanced planning.

[Hugh Newman]

It is. And I think, you know, there's a subtlety to it as well, and the abstract nature which makes them feel. It's just so intelligent, these people. Yes, so intelligent and. But in a. Of kind, kind of in a different way. To us, we think intelligence is all academic to them. It was a subtle intelligence, understanding the laws of nature coming in and encoding that within these sites.

[Podcast Host 2]

Why would these, why would the, the solstices be so important to people that aren't really agricultural yet?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, this got, this goes way back, actually. This goes back to the Paleolithic era, actually. Let me just. There's a couple of things here. So we're talking about some of these caves in.

[Podcast Host 2]

Again.

[Hugh Newman]

So we go back to this. This is all the alignments of the solstices, you know, in the Paleolithic caves.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And the traditions there. And this is, this is anthropological research which has been done on hunter gatherer societies. There's a gentleman called Brian Hayden, an author, brilliant author. He's written about this. This is based on his, some of his research and I've been reading all this stuff. I just found him, basically, and it's blowing my mind that solstices weren't about necessarily about. About anything to do with growing food or to study having a calendar wasn't necessarily about food production and things like that. It was more about understanding the laws of nature. But also it was about when to do your, you know, tribal feasting, when to time your initiations, the rites of passage, when to, you know, have ceremony and things like this. It wasn't just about practical things. It was like spiritual, ritualistic things as well. And the way they worked that out,

[I]

with its two juicy beef patties and three slices of melted cheese topped with tangy Big Arch sauce. The Big Arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The big arch, the most McDonald's, McDonald's

[Hugh Newman]

burger yet for a limited time, because he studied hunter gatherer societies from all over the world. The anthropological data has been picked up from over the last few hundred years and found that that was the case. Many of them, a majority of them in fact, even in North America as well. The, you know, the Native American groups here, they do the same thing. They have caves or they have orientations which get illuminated on certain dates of the year, usually the solstices. Then they know when to do ceremonies, they know when to do their feasting, they know when to do certain things. And only later it, you know, became useful for agriculture.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

So, so, you know, so this, it's the other way around. People know, this is, this is, that's a great point. And so because you look at Carahan Tepe, you know, you have the whole winter solstice alignment there. That would have been a really useful calendar, a really useful marker that everyone

[Podcast Host 2]

can use and understand. The sun stops.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. There's actually some work of Dr. Martin Sweatman who I have a lot of time for. I'm just saying if I got an image of some of his research, I can't find it. But he actually, I think he's got it on gobekli tepe, pillar 43 as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

He's been published.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

Oh yeah, he's an academic. Yeah, he's for sure. So he's, he's done not only at Carahan Tepe, he's found a calendrical system in the pillar shrine, counting the different, you know, pillars and things like this. He's also found it on pillar 43 here. A perfect kind of lunar loony solar calendar they call it.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is the vulture stone. So what's happening here?

[Hugh Newman]

This is the vulture stone. So this, he's basically counting the different V's. So, and then the. But it's quite, it's not that complicated but it's, it's kind of explained here. You've got the one lunar month is one of the voices. These 11 lunar months, because there's 11 of these squares equals 354 days. And he got 10 more of these upside down and upright triangles which equal 10 days, which makes 364 days. Then he believes the vulture or the sun symbol would make up. He believes it was a summer solstice. It could easily be the winter solstice as well. Mark made made the final day. So it's a basic counting thing for a lunar and solar calendar. And the same thing's been found at Carahan. And you must remember that within a couple of hundred years of these sites being built on Karakadam Mountain, just north of Gobekli Tepe the first Einkorn wheat was produced in an agricultural farming manner. And that's where the agricultural revolution kicked off within 200 years of these sites being constructed. And then, because all the evidence at Gobekli Tepe and Karahanta is that they're talking about all the evidence they found. They were wired wild plants, they were wild animals. There was hunting, there was collecting, they were doing all these things. But there's no evidence of growing food or agriculture. But within a couple hundred years, they probably got to a point where they wanted to settle down and they kind of wanted to hang out at Gobekli Tepe and these other places. And then they said, well, let's. Let's grow the damn stuff ourselves. Just over there, let's. They built all these. They. They created all these huge hunting traps. So when migrating animals were coming, they coerced them into these giant. All these walls built around them in big kind of keyhole shapes. So then TR them and funnel the animals into these pens and kill them.

[Podcast Host 2]

All this is at.

[Hugh Newman]

During the same time, all around the area, you find loads of these hunting traps. They're called hunting kites, I think. And some of them have been found in Saudi Arabia and other areas as well. And so they were realizing that they could stop, and then they started breeding the animals and things like this. Then they started growing the food. So this is when this sedentary lifestyle began.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

You know, after these sites were built. Because most, you know, for a long time people were thinking, oh, they must have, you know, they must have kind of created agriculture and then decided to build these sites based upon that.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, that's what we're taught.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, but also you have some of the Sumerian stories of Enkit Enlil and all this kind of stuff. They talk about giant structures being created. They talk about giant lofty enclosures and things like this being built on hills. And there were channels and water was being directed. And you see all these water channels at Gobekli Tepe now, where they're harvesting rainwater, and at Carahan Tepe, which we've seen already. And then after that, the, the food domestication, the animal domestication started taking place. These are all in the Sumerian stories. And so I believe they would. You know, Andrew talked about this briefly as well. They're going on about this in Sumerian stories, but they were talking about the Test Tepele era in kind of myth and story. And so I think there's a lot more, more to what was going on here than people realize this we take, you know, you've got to remember, until 9th, the mid-1990 or 2, 2000, no one knew any of these places existed.

[Podcast Host 2]

Nope.

[Hugh Newman]

They were just a rumor. And you think about all the cultures passing through southeast Turkey. You know, you've got the Sumerians, you've got the Hittites, you've got the Assyrians, you've got the Babylonians, you've got the Christians, you've got the Muslims. All these cultures walking over the side. But literally they're like, like digging into the same hill and putting burials in like a Gobekli Tepe and seeing it as sacred. Somehow they sort of felt it was sacred, probably because of the myths that had been around for a long time. So no one knew anything about it. And so all this kind of history is being written about. There's a whole chapter missing. The chapter has now been read and it's being written. And so this is what's happening in southeast Turkey.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's fat. Before the discovery, would people look at those Sumerian texts and wonder, where is this place? Where is this? Because they're talking about places.

[Hugh Newman]

What they assumed. They assumed it was in, you know, Iraq, right. Iran, all this kind of thing where it's, you know, Fertile Crescent all kicking off now. But there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot going on down there as well. Long before the Sumerians, you know, like, you have Jericho, for instance. This is famous. Everyone knows Jericho. This is. But. But there was also a summer solstice sunset alignment.

[Podcast Host 2]

In Jericho.

[Hugh Newman]

In Jericho. In the tower itself.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is the oldest city on Earth. Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. This is like, you know, a bit younger than Gokli Tepe and all that. But this is the work again. Rampkai and Roy Learn. These are the guys who have found standard units of measure at other testepola sites and in Tufian sites. This is a whole different thing to what they're finding in Gobekli Tepe, but they're finding the Persian foot and Persian Cuban cubit as a standard unit of measure in many of the suit too fee and such. But that's another story. But this, this is the alignment in Jericho. So. So all these stories may have been reflecting into Jericho, they may have been reflecting further north into Gobekli Tepe. And also. We'll come back to that in a moment. But also you have, all along the coast, you have sites like Atlit Yim, Atlit Yam that are being discovered off the coast, you know, under the water of Israel. And they found semi Stone circles, cut marks, you know, stone wall corridors that align to the summer solstice. So all that's all in the area, you know, of that whole kind of biblical area says it gets weirder and weirder the more you dig.

[Podcast Host 2]

If you date it to the same time. And why is it underwater?

[Hugh Newman]

This goes back, this goes back to about 7,500bc it's underwater because of the water levels have just risen 400ft.

[Podcast Host 2]

I was trying to get a flood myth story.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, no, well, yeah, I mean there's, there are, you know, there are certain ones that kind of come into that as well. But there's a lot around the coast there that suggest, especially the Levantine coast, Israel in that and which do suggest that there was a lot more going on. And it must be this old because that's when the water levels were much less at the end of the last ice age, a little bit after that as well. And. But you also have the connection with Malta, which I find interesting because that whole place was much bigger and connected to the mainland Europe in the Mediterranean.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right.

[Hugh Newman]

And that. And they found evidence off the coast of Sicily of a gigantic, like 15, 14 meter long megalith at the bottom of the ocean which dates back to 10,000, 11,000 years ago. They're like, what the hell? So there's stuff going on there as well, all under the water. So, yeah, the more you get into this, the coastal stuff is a whole other thing as well. There's also evidence that they were navigating from Mediterranean, edge of Turkey over to Cyprus, going back to at least 12 to 13,000 years ago. And we're talking quite large amounts of people going back and forth, quite big boats.

[Podcast Host 2]

So trade merchants.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, and people. Animals. They. They proved it. By animals.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh, how do they do that?

[Hugh Newman]

And obsidian and things like this. Well, no one knows what's going on here because they found evidence of seafaring, go back a hundred thousand years in Crete and Greece because they found obsidian on certain islands that could only have got there by boat. You know, things like that. So the seafaring nature of history has been deeply overlooked. The whole diffusionism thing as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

I agree.

[Hugh Newman]

So even the people of Gobekli Tepe may have been sailing and this is how they could have got around the world to measure the Earth in ancient times.

[Podcast Host 2]

Times. I mean, there's no denying the DNA is around the planet that's coming from different places. Confusionism is a real thing.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, for sure. And I think there's more evidence that is going to come to light the more we get into this, this kind of stuff. But yeah, there's so much, I mean there's go. I mean I want to talk about a couple of other sites because I've got a feeling some of your, your watchers and your listeners. Watches.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, let's take a quick break and we'll, we'll get back into this. I'm very excited. We're back in a sec. I wanted to ask, have you found any correlation with latitude, longitude with these sites? Is there any meaning that.

[Hugh Newman]

I'm starting to, I'm starting to look at that now. I've got most of the geometry work done. I think there's, I think we're going to find things. Yeah, I think we're going to find it. Well, the problem is with. It's a very limited area, the whole Tastepola area. I mean there is, is one thing I found like there's a connection between Peru, Angli Tepe.

[Podcast Host 2]

Interesting.

[Hugh Newman]

If you draw a line like for instance. Oh, that's too high. Now if you draw a line say between the middle of Quebec Tepe enclosure D and the Coricantra in Peru, it's. I should have an image of it here somewhere. I don't know.

[Podcast Host 2]

I'd love to see that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

So and the line is from the middle of the enclosure measure.

[Podcast Host 1]

That's.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, that's pretty precise, Pretty accurate. Yeah, yeah. Let me just see if. I hope I've got the image here if I could. There you go. Yeah, he's here. So.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh wow.

[Hugh Newman]

So this isn't necessarily about latitudes, but this is quite interesting because it comes back to the canonical numbers. So this is, this is years ago. I kind of spotted this when I was messing about on Google Earth. But if you draw an exact line between the middle of enclosure D and the middle of the Coricanter, which is the sacred center, center of the ink or pre ink or whatever. This is 7,928 miles. That is the known diameter of the earth at the equator. But in canonical tradition it's 7920 miles. That's a sort of round number and that's 8 times 9 times 10 times 11. So this is all the arithmetic that the ancients were doing. So there has to. I mean, how can, how can they. I mean is that coincidence again?

[Podcast Host 2]

I don't think so. So I mean the number 11 shows up a lot in these ancient sites as well.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, you do? Yeah. Some of the enclosures have 11 stones in as well. Usually 12 but 11 as well. But. And also like some of the carvings here as well. I wrote this article on Graham Hancock's website years ago. Yeah, like the, the ones on the left there of that photo there from Kimbo and Celestani in Peru. The 12 on the right are from Gobekli Tepe and they're almost identical style. I mean, this is a style you're probably going to find. People are going to do 3D reliefs. But it's kind of interesting. Even Graham Hancock put that in his book. You know, when he went to visit these sites as well. He found that he compared these sites, you know, not necessarily this alignment, but certainly, you know, the connection can be found.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep, I see it. I believe it.

[Hugh Newman]

Let's look at a couple of other bits while we're here then, if you like, interested in a bit of that. I mean, obviously you've got the, you've got the Gobekli Tepe Easter island thing as well. It's kind of intriguing. You know, you're getting the same kind of hand signals, you're getting the same kind of style.

[Podcast Host 2]

Easter island has always confused me because it's in the middle of nowhere.

[Hugh Newman]

I know. Yeah, I know. It's. It's such a strange place. You even have polygonal walls there as well. Is that right in the place called Vinapu underneath, like where the moai stand upon the platforms. And you know, how did that get there? Did that come from Peru? Did it come from another part of the world?

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes. And I don't think a lot of people realize the more I. Statues, a lot of them have bodies.

[Hugh Newman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. All the way down. Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean, why would, why would you build a 30 foot statue and bury 20ft of it?

[Hugh Newman]

That is. And that's one of the things you get on the island there. Some of them are just sort of torsos, but some of them go much further down, like below the kind of groinal area. But you always have this hands on the navel, you know, and the navel is like, traditionally, it's like the navel of the world. Easter Island. Traditionally, Gobekli Tepe means navel or potbelly hill. Oh, it's the same name.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

Very, very odd. And so. And then you have. The navel is also the coricancha or, you know, the center of the Inca tradition. It was known as the navel as well. So you have all these different navel, something that comes up over and over again. Now, this is an image from the book. Obviously. This is hand drawn the kind of stuff we were playing with and you're interested in, like, different latitudes and distances and things like this. Now, this is like a bit weird because, you know, we have some distances between sites are bizarre. Like, for example, the distance between Stonehenge and Gobekli tepe is exactly 1 million Persian feet.

[Podcast Host 2]

Exactly 1 million?

[Hugh Newman]

Yes. It's so weird. And. Okay, I don't know how to make of that, but what we know is the Stonehenge, the exact location of Stonehenge. There used to be a mound at the center which was part of a system of study in the solstices 10,000 years ago, which we can have a look at in a minute perhaps. But what is bizarre, though, is that the Persian foot, which is 1.05ft, is found throughout. Gobekli Tepe is found in Stonehenge, known as the British long story for. And also the mile, the standard English mile is 5,000 Persian feet.

[Podcast Host 2]

I didn't realize that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah. So what? It just gets weirder and weirder and so. And then you can sort of find all these other correlations. Like, for example, Delphi, also a naval site, center of the world, is exactly 900 miles, which is exactly 5 million Samian feet. Is that another. Another one of the foot kind of variations?

[Podcast Host 2]

Not 5 million and 1 1.

[Hugh Newman]

No, no, no. Just happens to be. Oh, it could be. I mean, it depends where.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

But, but, but it's just. It's just little. Little intricacies like this I find kind of bizarre. We've got other ones here. We've got symbolism from Australia on Aboriginal elders being found at Gokli Tepe, something that Andrew discovered years ago that from Gokli Tepe to the Great Pyramid is exactly 10, 80 kilometers, which is an interesting number because 108 is a lunar number. It's also a processional number we find in distances between sites around the world. And you could just go on and on and on. I mean, you keep finding correlations here. And actually Jericho is interesting. Exactly 2 million Saxon feet away. Now, whether they were counting in millions.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Is a whole other story. It's probably back based upon certain mile lengths anyway, which the Saxon foot may have been used within, or Samian foot in some cases. So, yeah, you can go on and on with this. It's pretty. Yeah, I cover that in the book, obviously.

[Podcast Host 2]

I see you have the ball backstone there. There's an angle correlation.

[Hugh Newman]

There is an interesting angle correlation, actually. Yeah, yeah. So this. That's the one where we saw in a slightly earlier Image I'll just sort of find.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is, I think, the biggest quarried stone ever.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, the. The largest one they found relatively recently is one.

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[Hugh Newman]

A thousand six hundred and fifty tons. I think I've got some images of bow back here and this is actually it here. Yeah, so. So we have the one on top which has none of the text on it. That is. That's the stone of the pregnant woman. That's about a thousand tons. Yeah, just a thousand tons. That's all. Then the one beneath it they found to be like 1,650tons. Hasn't been moved. It's still in position. So they may not have ever got around to moving or they may have been chopped into smaller areas. But there's other ones in the whole area. We've got references to giants building. These. Here's an article I wrote years ago for Atlantis Rising magazine. But this is one of the stones in the temple itself because there's like a giant platform there. Here's some other stones you can see me standing down. These are down the north side. Right.

[Podcast Host 2]

Any theories on how that big, those big stones got into place?

[Hugh Newman]

Giants.

[Podcast Host 2]

Giants.

[Hugh Newman]

That's the only theory I'm on board. And there's me as well, standing there with this is like the trilith on the three mega stones, which are about 800 tons each. So these are smaller than the ones found in the quarry, but still, my God, I mean, it's a serious operation. You can't really mess with that. But and the alignment, this is something that Howard Crowhurst came up with, which absolutely fantastic, fascinated me and I've actually included it in the book as well. This is the Quebec le Tepe to bell back the three, two square alignment. So this is based upon his. His system of modular geometry, which is using squares north, south, east, west, left and right of each other. And then you work out what the angles are between three to four, five squares. And they're always very meaningful angles. Very Meaningful and they often relate to solstices, which is where he, his work is focused on in Brittany and in Britain. But he's now applying it to Tas Tepala sites as well. We're starting to look at that. We found golden section angles with the solstice at Carahan Tepe for instance, which we're going to look at.

[Podcast Host 2]

Golden's like the golden ratio, like fee.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, it's really, really odd.

[Podcast Host 2]

And how about Fibonacci numbers?

[Hugh Newman]

That does show up as far as I'm aware. Not yet, but you know, leave it with us. We're going to keep, we're going to keep looking.

[Podcast Host 2]

I bet they do.

[Hugh Newman]

So this is fascinating. So this is the Gobekli Tepe de Bowback angle. And like the thing about Baalbek as well is that the area it's built upon is an old tell or an old tepe. Yeah, yeah. So this is, this could go back thousands and thousands of years anyway. And it was originally a kind of outpost of Gobekli Tepe. No T pillars or anything, but certainly something was there. It was an occupational mound, that's what they call them people living in and around that mount. And then there's Phoenician evidence there, there's Roman evidence, evidence they. But it's claimed that the Romans built the whole thing. There's no evidence of Romans moving thousand ton stones to create a platform to build their temple upon. It's almost like they found it like that and then built upon it. It's more likely. And so yeah, you can just go. I mean going to Belbeck was one of the most. My God, it was one of the most mind blowing things I've ever seen in my life, I think. But there's so many, there's so many more sites here. Let me just look at some of the sites in Test Tepla. I think you're your watches listeners can't call them watches.

[Podcast Host 2]

Everything goes back to Enoch.

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, appropriate in the biblical text there. So this is say Birch. Now you, you we're talking about numbers we're getting into all the night. So. So one of the things about the name say Birch, which really caught my. I mean I literally worked this out on a bus and a translator when I was in Turkey. And what does say Birch me and say means counting. Birch means sign of the zodiac or Burke in Kurdish means tower or watchtower. And we found out from this is like one of the main test tabular sites. They're now, they're now excavating. We found out that there Used to be an old Jericho like tower at Saberch that got destroyed in dismantle in the Second World War.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wow.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And so that's actually hidden in the name. And so this is clearly. So this is, this is a scan of the enclosed closure.

[Podcast Host 2]

I love these.

[Hugh Newman]

This is about 30ft wide or thereabouts. 32ft in fact. I've actually done some number work on this and found sacred measurements. But if we go on, you can actually see a different view of it here. You see there's a hole carved into it there.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

Now this is. We'd find this in quite a few of the sites now. And there's a good, there's good evidence that these may have been early forms of Shiva. Lingering lingams, you know.

[Podcast Host 2]

What's a Shiva lingam?

[Hugh Newman]

This is an ancient kind of traditional Indian or Southeast Asian installation stone installation of a phallus type kind of lingam and then the yoni shaped bowl, you know. And I don't know how I've written a whole chapter about this actually. But say Birch is interesting because the geometry of this enclosure is the same as what we're finding in the British stone circle. Same. We're finding it. Gobekli Tepe. You can see this, this is one, one of the, one of the egg shapes. Very, very specific.

[Podcast Host 2]

Do you find these in ancient Indian sites as well?

[Hugh Newman]

No, I haven't looked, I haven't properly looked just yet. But the whole Vedic connection with this part of the world is very, very interesting. We're looking into that more and more. But Saber, this is one of the key sites. And one of the interesting things about this as well is that this is right next to. Look, if you look here, right, see the, on the left there, you've got all the kind of rock, you know, rock cut, square cut area that essentially is a Roman quarry. Okay. They got that close to this enclosure but didn't destroy it or harm it in any way. And so much so that just where that Roman quarry is, we're talking 2,000 years ago. There's this little area here which they didn't touch. And this is an ancient test. Tabular carving is this one here. So this is like a serpent head kind of shape with all this dots and kind of symbolism around it. Could be something to do with a serpent or a leopard, we just don't know. But they left that alone and then stopped quarrying there. So there's a theory which I'm putting forward that the Romans discovered Tas Tepele. The whole.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wow.

[Hugh Newman]

Because there's a Roman quarry very close to Carahan Tepe. On the opposite hill there's a Roman quarry not too far from another big one right next to, say, Birch itself on another hill. And there's also one Niggerbeckley Tepe as well. And so this is odd. So there's a good chance and I'm sure if I scan through any old Roman Latin texts, we're gonna find something. They found certain things.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, they would have documented this. Have you been able to date those quarries so we know when in the Empire they happened?

[Hugh Newman]

No, no, I'm gonna. This is something I haven't looked into yet. But it's just that this anomaly here at Saber, it's really caught my attention

[Podcast Host 2]

because you could see someone like Hadrian would have been respectful of these.

[Hugh Newman]

Well, this is what I mean. There seems to be this respect.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

Because they weren't, they weren't destroying anything. They were getting right up close to it and when they saw something, they stepped back and like left it alone. Probably just thought, leave that. Don't want to mess with the superstitious, the spirits or anything like this. So this is, this is like what's happening at Saber. They started excavating this a couple of years ago. Giant megaliths, rock cut zones, big U shaped stones as well as T shapes. This head was found. We knew about this, this months ago before we got announced to the public, but we had to keep quiet about it, you know, in respect to the family member who told us about it. Let's see 3 PO looking. Dude. Yeah. And then this is what it actually looks like. In full. They've actually found this, the rest of the statue. Very bizarre looking thing.

[Podcast Host 2]

So we see that V shape quite a bit, don't we?

[Hugh Newman]

We're gonna. Yeah. You see the V neck thing? Quite a bit. If you look at his mouth, it looks like it's sort of being sewn up. And his eyes look a bit like what people call mollusk shells. This is a tradition in the Levant burial where they would sew the mouth up and put mollusk shells and then plaster the corpse. So is that a representation of that when he looked at Bekli Tepe. But there's some other sites here we might want to have a quick look at. So we looked at Navali Chauri as well. This is one of the sites that was being excavated way back in the 1980s, 80s by actually by Klaus Schmidt. This is what inspired him and made him realize there was something significant at Gobekli Tepe from the original discovery there in 1963. But when he was, when he was excavating this place, it was by the river. It's by the kind of, you know, Euphrates river, or a stream coming off. It's called the Cantara Stream. And they found these square enclosures, treasures. And they found this building on the bottom right here. Really, really bizarre. This is like, I've done a whole thing about this in the upcoming book about innovations of the test.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is a strange building.

[Hugh Newman]

So there was an actual like 16 meter long building. So what's that, like 50, 50 odd feet?

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And underneath it it had these kind of carved channels. Yeah. So what would happen is. And inside the building it would have these little stones. You can move and you can open them up. And so the water from the freezing cold stream would come, come in.

[Podcast Host 2]

Oh, my goodness.

[Hugh Newman]

And they would open up the little things and they. And it would cool the whole air down.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is a central air system.

[Hugh Newman]

This is the first air conditioning in the world.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wow.

[Hugh Newman]

And so this. And this is 8, 500, 8300 BC. So little innovations like that that get overlooked. But if you look into it, even. Hang on a sec. You know, there's a reason they're doing these little things. Yeah. This is the terrazzo. This is where terrazzo was first discovered in this region. It became. Even though they found older versions of it now. Now this is kind of what some of it looks like. They have larger stones within the cement type mix. And this is the, the Vedic connection. This is a very large stone head, probably about this big, that was found at Navali Chori. It's a shaved head with a serpent on the back of it. It looks like a seeker ponytail of a Vedic priest. This is where the Vedic connection really began. People kind of thinking, how on earth could this design, design be here? What's going on? We have other, other things like this as well. This is like a kind of wing. This is what Andrew calls the first kind of angel because it's like a. It's got a winged robe coming, coming around this very strange looking, Chris. Only about this big. It's only about a foot tall. And again, that's from the valley Chori. And we have this totem pole as well from Navali Chaury as well. Again, another 3D scan. So you have like a vulture on top. You have a human figure. You have other kind of serpentine elements to it. Much of it's been broken off, but you can see almost it shows the different kind of hair and everything else.

[Podcast Host 2]

And the wings, what's your take on the vultures, Cygnus connection with the, with the constellation?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, that's actually something that Andrew's very much into. He believes that the different orientations of the enclosures at Gobekli Tepes significantly mark the different movements of Cygnus as they change over the century, centuries. And he believes that there was like a kind of portal into the Milky Way where the soul would travel after death.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Because often these hold stones, Quebecly Tepe at least are in the north where you know, the soul would go to and then into the Milky Way into the Dark Rift. And it was all these. And he discovered all these traditions that may be associated with that. So there's a Cygnus alignment certainly with these, with these temples. And I think that's, that's very profound. You know, in my opinion, there's also a southern alignment that other archaeo astronomers have put towards Sirius as well.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

And they're now finding that in Malta. And a woman called Lenny Richard, brilliant author, who thinks that the Maltese temples could be as almost as old as Gobekli Tepe because they're all aligned to Sirius as well. And with the solstice alignments as well. It proves these guys are star watchers. I mean, for sure you can't. And so the problem I have is that the archaeologists are very strongly stated dating. These people weren't looking at the sky because they had roofs over them. And I'm thinking, well, a solstice alignment works with a roof.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

Even the serious and Cygnus alignments could work with the roof because you're looking on the horizon. Correct. So you'd be below the roof.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's where you would measure it. You would measure it up in the

[Hugh Newman]

sky between the T pillars in the gap there. So, so the, so there's, that's one of the issues. And so all our research gets pushed to size at fringe region research because they had roofs. But there's no actual evidence for roofs that, I mean over the main enclosures, over the smaller enclosures, the later ones people may have lived in. Yeah. But they haven't found any actual physical evidence for roofs. None. All they found is two negatives of where wood may have been only a couple of three meters, like what, 15, maximum 10ft long each.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

But that isn't even long enough to go between two T pillars in some cases and some. So it's a big question mark of like, what is going on here? Why are they forcing this narrative into our brains, onto Wikipedia, into all the Academic kind of history books and things like this.

[Podcast Host 2]

Good luck editing the Gobekli Tepe page. They won't let you do it.

[Hugh Newman]

Tell me about it. Yeah, yeah, I know. And so I've not even bothered to think about that. And so we don't know if there are roofs or not, but if evidence comes forth, we'll accept it and we'll, we'll work it out. We think the astronomy could, a lot of it can still work with certain gaps in roof, certain windows. Even if you're looking high up in the sky, stars, it's. If you've got just one window, you get a really precise. You're sitting on this specific stone bench which is carved out of bedrock, looking up at a certain spot. You can watch the movement really clearly. You know, this is how Native Americans did it in their kivas, of course, like this. And so it's the same principle. So I think, you know, people have got to look at that again, again, you know, and like accept that there could be something going on. And I think Martin Sweatman's work has really pushed the, the idea in the academic world because he got peer reviewed, you know, scientific papers.

[Podcast Host 2]

Didn't he really struggle to get that published though?

[Hugh Newman]

He did, but he did get it published. That's the thing. And it went ballistic.

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[Hugh Newman]

all over the world. So that's opened up our research, it's allowed our research to have a bit of leeway. And actually we're working with Martin, I'm kind of working on him, trying to get him to incorporate our witnesses solstice alignment into his Karan Tepe research. Because we think it all fits. We think it's the same his calendar he's found there. We think it the winter solstice sunrise alignment, the stonehead getting illuminated would be the marker to begin the calendar every year if it was a calendar. And so yeah, there's a, there's a lot to come in the future.

[Podcast Host 2]

It Must be because the Sumerians were so calendar focused that they had to get that information from somewhere. And their knowledge of the circle and 360 degrees and all of that.

[Hugh Newman]

Well, they also had a lunar solar calendar as well. We know that. So this is what was being found in the Carahan Tepe's pillar shrine. It's also being found on pillar 43 at Gobekli Tepe. And so it's highly likely that influences came forth from this particular area.

[Podcast Host 2]

Sure.

[Hugh Newman]

So I'm just pause for a second. Let me just check this.

[Podcast Host 2]

Take your time. I interrupted you, I apologize.

[Hugh Newman]

That's cool.

[Podcast Host 2]

I just get of a couple excited.

[Hugh Newman]

Let's just check this. I want to find this couple of these other. I just want to kind of COVID this. Yeah, this is actually. This is probably quite useful actually because we were talking about the astronomy. I want to just cover this. So this is the alignments we're talking about. This is on the left you've got the northern sky, that's the main strip image there. On the right you've got the southern sky. And you've got some of the symbolism we're putting here as well, which may be astronomical. For example, the H and the O and the moon symbol on the right, that's on one of the sets central T pillars like the neck kind of insignia area where the V neck is. And they could represent, according to BG Siddharth and jj that that could represent the Gemini twins. Because these are, these are isn't just Nate symbol. It's two figures facing each other holding kind of hands or dancing or something. Below that you've got a lunar and a solar symbol as well, which is really, really interesting. You've also got the bottom of the pillar on the base there, seven flightless birds which could represent Pleiades, some people say.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right, the seven sisters.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And also you've got this little artifact only about this big, about 3 inches tall of or carved on bone of. It looks like a person looking between two T pillars at the night sky, possibly with Cygnus carved on the bone plaque as well. And so you get all these little symbolism, all this little sort of symbols on these, these you know, pieces of stone. And yet there's no. According to the archaeologists, there's nothing going on there to do with that.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, they say there's no astronomy at these sites.

[Hugh Newman]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host 2]

So I this in the southern sky looking at Gemini, then Orion would also factor in as well.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And yeah, you get Taurus as well and other such things. In fact, JJ's done a lot of research on what's called the Golden Gate of the ecliptic and how she thinks the whole north to the southern sky were moving along this certain path. Path. It's very. She's actually very smart and got this all down. She's going to be putting a whole chapter in the book about it. And so it incorporates all these different elements and also into earlier myths from different areas. We're doing this and later cultures as well. And so the astronomical side of it, I think really needs to be, you know, properly examined.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep.

[Hugh Newman]

And, yeah, this is what was I going to show you here. Yeah, I want to show you a couple of these other sites in the area before we. I don't want to miss these. So this is a really interesting little figurines from Gertru Tepe. This is the last site in Test Tepola in the whole region. And they found. The first place they started finding. They kind of found one at Quebec Tepe, but they're not sure. A goddess figurine, like a kind of full bodied woman figurine, which were later like in the Maltese temples, as you can see here. Here.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

These are from Malta. These are from Heahim on the right. That's the one from Gertrude, which later developed really strongly in places like Malta, which we. Which could be just after Gokli Tepe. The new dating is now being put forward. But Se Tepe is another site here. This is a very recent discovery of these two stone faces carved on this giant megalithic bench.

[Podcast Host 2]

I was again obsessed with the polish.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

On that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. I mean, that really is. I mean, the stonework is. It's just, it gets really, really bizarre. Then you have this like a mace head carved out. A volcanic bass out two. Two sides to it as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

So there's. It's like a ring shape. What do you think? Do you think that a staff went in there?

[Hugh Newman]

I think so, yeah. It looks like it's a top of a kind of staff.

[Podcast Host 2]

It does.

[Hugh Newman]

It really does. You got two. So you got two faces, one on either side, one kind of open. And then you've got, say, birch as well, which we looked at already. But there's, there's so many, many, so many sites now being uncovered in this area. It just gets more epic the more you look into it.

[Podcast Host 2]

How many Tepe sites do you think there are?

[Hugh Newman]

There's officially, there's 12. These are the, this is like the, the, the Test Tepeler super civilization, I call it. But there's a lot More being excavated. There's more that even on this official, this map that came out.

[Podcast Host 2]

What does your gut tell you how many are going to be found?

[Hugh Newman]

I think there's going to be hundreds.

[Podcast Host 2]

Hundreds?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, I think so. Because I don't think this is limited to this area. I think they're going to start finding them in other areas of Turkey. They're going to find them in the Levant. They're going to find them off the coast underwater, which they've already started doing. There's going to be more and more found. I think. I think it's going to kind of, you know, really in the process of rewriting an entire history of the planet.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, look at the resources that are required here. These are clearly very important places. Very important places.

[Hugh Newman]

And this shouldn't have been happening back then. This is the end of the last ice. It was actually in the Ice Age. A lot of these sites.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

That's what's so bad. Baffling.

[Podcast Host 2]

Bunkuku goes back to when the ice shelf was there.

[Hugh Newman]

No. Yeah. You got so further, much further to the east of this, you've got Bonchoclutala, you've got Ktic Tepe, you've got Grief Fila, Hoyek as well. These are a whole series of sites. There's even Chayanu's up in the area as well. Chiano to Pesi. This, these are fascinating places. These are some of them pre day Quebec. So there's a whole. And these are all along the Tigris River. So you got the Tigris river where all these sites are going back a thousand or more years before Gok. And all the Tastepola sites are closer to the Euphrates river, the two paradise, the rivers of Paradise, Biblical tradition. And they both go right down into Levant, into Iraq and other places as well, where traditionally those rivers are more famous for being there. But these sites over in that area are really interesting because at K Tepe, for instance, you actually find find quite small stones like this size. You can hold them in your hand or two hands. And they have 3D relief carvings of abstract animals and figures. And they're 500 to a thousand years older than Gobekli Tepe, where it's showing 3D relief carving abstract forms. So how is what's going on there? I mean, so this could be where that idea came from and then blew up in the whole of Tas Tepola. So the jury's out on what, what is going on in work. These trading between each other. Were they kind of against each other. Did they start blending and bringing their ideas together? And I think there's a bit. A bit of everything in there. I think it's all going to come to light eventually when more excavation is done.

[Podcast Host 2]

Because we don't have any records. Right. We don't get anything until the. I guess the Phoenicians.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, you got. We've got really. Is really Sumerian. Sumerian, Venetians, you've got. Even the Hittites in some respects. You got the Hatians before them keeping records. Yeah. And that's it, really. Egypt as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, Gilgamesh, they say, is much older than when it was written down. Could be. It could be this old.

[Hugh Newman]

That's what. Actually, I think Graham Hancock wrote an article about that.

[Podcast Host 2]

Did he?

[Hugh Newman]

That. That saber, the narrative scene, say Birch, is actually. Could be a representation of the whole Gilgamesh story, which is really interesting. Intriguing.

[Podcast Host 2]

I almost said holy. Yeah, I need to read that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, that's really. So there's. There's lots of these. I mean, so little has been excavated. That's the problem. We need more. When more is excavated, suddenly it's all gonna come into. Into view. We're gonna know what's going on.

[Podcast Host 2]

Does the government cooperate?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of work now. There's Japanese teams coming in, there's teams from Germany, England and other parts of the world all coming in and working on this project. So many of these sites are starting to get excavated. The most recent one is going to be Ayanna La Hoyek. Got a Japanese team, just started on that like two months ago.

[Podcast Host 2]

And it's a new discovery.

[Hugh Newman]

It's. Well, we've known about it. In fact, let me show you this. This is. You're gonna like this. This is very interesting, actually, because the Yan Lahoyak was one of the sites that was announced as one of the 12 test table of sites when it was all put out there in 2021. But. So we went to have a look at it ourselves, I think, in like 2022. Let me just see if I can find this, because this is pretty cool and I can't find it. Where is it? And we actually found ourselves, this is a fascinating place. A T pillar lying on the ground in a field.

[Podcast Host 2]

There's no question that that's a T pillar.

[Hugh Newman]

It's got a carving on it as well. You can't really see it in this image, but there's actually a small 3D relief carving on one side of it. I mean, it's been like, plowed over.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah. But where's the plates again?

[Hugh Newman]

There's plates, and we got to. We got to know the locals. They showed us all these artifacts. There's. And they've just started excavating, and we. We discovered this, me and JJ in 2020. We were just driving. We're gonna look in this field. I've got a feeling there's something in there. Just found a t pillow on the floor. Well, what the hell? And so that really. That really got us. And then every year, we go back just to check in on our little pet tea pillar. Yeah, it's still there every time. No one's taken it. It hasn't been put in a museum, hasn't been collected.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, where there's one, there's got to be 11 more.

[Hugh Newman]

Oh, my God. Yeah, there's going to be a lot more. The thing with that yak, this is going to blow people away. This is going to be bigger. Thank.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, this is going to be huge. And I think that, you know, this map here, you can see there's six, possibly seven large mound areas where Sky Tepe's got, like, four of those possibly, you know, and so that's going to open things up, I think. Yeah. Quite dramatically. Yeah. And that actually means giant that eats.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's what that means.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, that's the translation, which I think is pretty cool.

[Podcast Host 2]

The giants keep coming up.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

Where are you on giants? Are you a giant believer? What were they?

[Hugh Newman]

I'm a bit of a giantologist.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

You could say that.

[Podcast Host 2]

All right.

[Hugh Newman]

With my good friend Jim Vieira, we've written a couple of books. One on the giants of North America called Giants on Record, and also another one called the Giants of Stonehenge and Ancient Bridge Britain. And we are, like, you know, we're kind of a little bit skeptical, you know? You know, we debunk tons of the giant accounts that we've come across. We're not, like, you know, we're not just trying to, you know, sell a book, you know, for a story. We genuinely find it a fascinating subject.

[Podcast Host 2]

I do, too.

[Hugh Newman]

Really fascinating.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's got to be something to it, because it shows up in every culture, every myth.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And you look at, like, North America is profound. This is profound here because it's the work of Ross Hamilton, who wrote the book A Tradition of Giants. They got me. Got me into all this. He's an absolute legend. We call him the godfather of giantology. That's his nickname, or the Gog Gog. And. And he's based in Ohio. So he's in that whole area. And it was his book that really blew my mind because he uncovered hundreds of accounts, but we've uncovered thousands of accounts. Now we, we feature only 250 in our book. 250. But this, even then we knew of

[Podcast Host 2]

a thousand accounts from newspapers. From.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, newspapers, academic journals, journals, doctor's reports, you know, people who just dig them up and send them to the Smithsonian never to be seen again.

[Podcast Host 2]

They disappear. Right.

[Hugh Newman]

And then even the Smithsonian's own annual reports they published every year or two, some of them are in there up to 7ft, 8ft tall.

[Podcast Host 2]

I didn't know that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, actually, and we've done a whole chapter called the Smithsonian Files in the book just to cover that. Obviously Nevada has a whole load. You know, we've looked into Lovelock Cave.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right. The red haired giants.

[Grainger Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

The winner must like petroglyphs and things like that, which are 14 or more thousand years old, which are pretty mind blowing.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yep.

[Hugh Newman]

But really it's the mound culture where the real giants are. And the Adena people especially. But up in New York state we found loads up in New England, all the megalithic chambers you have up there. It is, it is mental. It's mind blowing. I cannot quite.

[Podcast Host 2]

I understand maybe you correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought like the ancient word for Stonehenge, something about. James giants. In the early early days it was

[Hugh Newman]

called the giants dance.

[Podcast Host 2]

It was called the. That's what it was in Welsh.

[Hugh Newman]

The choir gigantum, choreo gigantum.

[Podcast Host 2]

A lot of coincidences. And Malta we talked about giants building out that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

Enoch has the book of Giants.

[Hugh Newman]

You got the goddess Sana in Malta. But with Stonehenge though.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

So you have this giant myth story that kind of like the giants built Stonehenge. They originally. This is all from the history of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth, 12th century Dr. Document that the stones were originally taken to Ireland and they were placed there at a cycle Killaroose. And then much later, King Ambrosius, who was the kind of king at the time, sent Uther Pendragon over with a 15, 000 strong army to go and collect the stones of Killaroos. The giants dance and bring them to the Salisbury plane to raise it the these stones in an in honor of the slain victims of a war that had taken place place. But they couldn't do it. The 15, 000 strong army couldn't move one stone. So they had to send Merlin the magician over there.

[Podcast Host 2]

I love this story.

[Hugh Newman]

He went and got them by using slight or magic in some stories or pulleys and you know, technology and other stories. And so somehow. And he did it on his own and brought them over to Salisbury Plain. That's the story. But originally the stones had come from the furthest reaches of, of Africa and bought over by a race of giants at the very first phase of this.

[Podcast Host 2]

Has that geology been confirmed?

[Hugh Newman]

Well, they've actually found trilithons in Libya. Actual trilithons, actually megalithic what look like Stonehenge, which is bizarre. There's myths of giants in the area as well. But there's more stories of giants in around Stonehenge. One of them is a book that was written in 1666 called A Fool's Bolt Soon Shot at Stonehenge by Reverend Robert Gay was his name. He lived in Somerset and he was a bit of, a, bit of an anarchist for his time. But he wrote this book and he found out these are all these old legends of Stonehenge, that it was actually built by a tribe of giants called the Kangik giants. This is the, it's all in the book. So yeah, yeah, we cover all this in the book as well. And, and that they had built it as an, as a place to honor their dead as well. But also there's actual giant accounts. Actually giant burials were found there. Stonehenge henge skeleton, large skeletons. Yeah. In 1719, just in a mound called the Giant's Grave in Salisbury, which is a few miles south of Stonehenge, they found a nine foot four inch skeleton. And it was reported in numerous newspapers at the time. And before that, in the early 1500s, Sir Thomas Elliot, he was the gentleman who wrote the first Latin dictionary. He was a well known scholar, educated at Cambridge, places like this. He, he discovered a 14 foot 10 inch skeleton in a log coffin in the grounds of what became known as some kind of abbey in the area. But it was obviously a much earlier barrel, very, very deep in the ground. And it had this strange metal disc with all these inscriptions on it. And also this book with these inscriptions on it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Where is this?

[Hugh Newman]

Is that, this is, this is near Stonehenge?

[Podcast Host 2]

No, I mean do these artifacts still exist? Exist?

[Hugh Newman]

No, they disappeared within a few years. But this was reported on by very, very famous. But I mean Thomas Elliot is a well known. Yes, he is well known guy. And so there's lots of people went and witnessed this and reported on it. But the range of height went from 12 foot 10 inches to 14 foot 10 inches. It changed for different accounts but this was like documented. And I was like, how can this be ignored? No one knows about this. And it's in all these old books. Then, you know, this inscriptions on it. No one knows what they were or what happened to the, the. They call it a tin and lead disc. Somehow they knew it was made of tin and had all these descriptions on it. But the skeleton crumbled to dust and that was the end of that. But very odd. And then you have, if you actually go to Salisbury now, this is like the city near where I live. In the museum there, they have a giant on display. No, not a skeleton. This is like a paper mache giant.

[Podcast Host 2]

Okay.

[Hugh Newman]

But the thing is, is this is part of an old tradition where the giant, since the 1400s, the secret societies in this area, the, the Taylor's Guild and other such things, they were parade of this giant around the town just after the summer solstice and John the Baptist day and then have this hobby horse following it around or clearing the path so it wouldn't fall on people. And this was, and this was going on since the 1400s and he became known as St Christopher. Now for those of that no biblical saints, you'll know that St. Christopher was a Canaanite giant from the Bible lands.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right.

[Hugh Newman]

Who carried Jesus over on his shoulder across a river when Jesus was a baby and turned away from this whole kind of warrior cast that he was involved with with the Canaanites and became like this, you know, a Christian, if you like. And, but, but how is all this connected, all these weird stories? I mean, we go into it in great detail in the book, obviously we kind of uncover all these old texts and kind of piece it all together because it seems to be this canonite biblical story connected with Stonehenge.

[Podcast Host 2]

Could this be Nephilim? Is there Nephilim actually on earth?

[Hugh Newman]

Could be, who knows? I mean, it gets, I mean there's a lot of accounts in Wiltshire and southeast, sorry, the south, southwest of England when it comes to that. But you know, while I'm on the subject of Stonehenge, I mean, I want to just mention this because this is really interesting. It fits back in with what we were talking about. So we have Stonehenge here. This is an aerial photograph on the summer solstice. You can see the way that the light from the, the stone on the far right there, you know, kind of, it's like a kind of phallic shadow penetrating the kind of feminine circle and things like this. It's all like symbol, symbol, symbolic. But this solstice alignment, the famous summer solstice alignment at Stonehenge, there's a much older one there, it goes back 10,000 years. So this is why I think the Gobekli Tepe, you know, explorers sure were coming to this part of the world, right. Because they found these 10,000 year old large pine post holes where the car park used to be. There used to be three blobs of paint in a car park. Car park is an artist's impression of what they would have like could have been up to 30ft tall. And they know it was pine. They found charcoal and dated it that they estimated the height based upon the width and depth. And these were east, west, more or less. And they were within 30 yards of Stonehenge, where it is now. But also in Stonehenge. You have, I have to explain this a little bit. In Stonehenge you got this at the bottom there you've got the Stonehenge circle. But in there they found this mound which was 10,000 years. That was 5,000 years before Stonehenge was built. And it was like they found this Mesolithic kind of stuff inside there, which is basically, it means that age before the Neolithic. But then they found from there along going to the northeast, they found these parallel ridges called periglacial strips. These are natural features. Features. But if you're inside at that mound looking down these natural features, it's the summer solstice sunrise. Yeah. Which is really interesting. At the far bottom of the hill there's another mound was constructed called Newell's Mound based upon the guy who found it. But then later when. So that was all happening 10, 000 years ago. They may have been looking at the solstice in the opposite direction. It's the winter solstice sunset.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

But then later, later they create Stonehenge around this mound and where these paraglacial strips are, they build, they carve out an avenue going in exactly the same direction. And now that's the one everyone celebrates for the summer solstice.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

So this was happening 5,000 years earlier. They were probably studying the summer solstice at Stonehenge before any stones were put in place. And it's now known the Amesbury.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Where I live, this whole area, this is the oldest continually inhabited area of the whole of Britain. There's a cycle Blick Mead just down the road from there, which was a known kind of gathering site. There's a spring there. Dr. David Jux is brilliant archaeologist. I know him personally. I've been To a few digs they found. They actually found evidence going older than that. Now in the area in Amesbury, they found going back 12,000 years ago, not just 10,000, so that puts it right into the frame. So. So they were doing. The solstice is here 10,000 years ago at least, possibly could have been earlier. Now they found these earlier dates because

[Podcast Host 2]

we keep running up against. Almost feels like a hard limit of the Ice age. Yeah, it feels like we can't get too far beyond that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, that, that, that, that is because especially the northern climate here, you're going to have a lot of ice.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

But the thing is you have. I forget the name, but you have the kind of. The, the warm, the warm strips of heat coming over from the Atlantic and everything, warming things up in Britain still happens today. And so a lot of England would have been cleared of ice by the end of the last Ice age. And so they could have got to Stonehenge easily. They could have got. Because it would have been joined to Europe because of Doggerland.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right.

[Hugh Newman]

So they could have walked there and

[Podcast Host 2]

that was, that was fringe theory for a long time. I know they found habitation there, but

[Hugh Newman]

what they found as well is. I'm not sure if I've got it here. Yeah. So this is. Now this is actually what of my photos from the summer solstice. That's the alignment going. It's all covered in misty, the avenue. But it's pretty beautiful. Yeah, Beautiful experience doing that. And. Okay, let me just find this one image because what they found is if you go. Even if you go further north, much further north than Stonehenge, you can go all the way up to. It should be here. Oh, here it is. Yeah. So you can go all the way up to Aberdeenshire and this area here would have been just free of ice at the end of the. The last, you know, towards the end of the last ice age. Yeah. And Professor Vince Gaffney, he's a. He came and spoke at our conference partly about this. They found another site there called Warren Field. This goes back to 10,000 years ago as well. And they found again these giant post holes all in this arc, all in this arc going across this field. And they found to their surprise that it aligned not only to the winter solstice sunrise, but it also marked the different moon phase. So it was like a loony solar calendar. And somehow they encoded that. They call it the, the kind of Warrenfield time reckoner, which is pretty cool.

[Podcast Host 2]

It is.

[Hugh Newman]

And they were doing that 10,000 years ago, they were measuring the moon and the sun on the winter solstice. And so to me, I have to question who would be doing this unless there was a project in place. Yeah, to go and study this.

[Podcast Host 2]

This is ancient knowledge, tens of thousands of years.

[Hugh Newman]

So this goes back at least 10,000 years ago and you got also is happening at Stonehenge. And so the thing is, the further north you go, the more you realize when you're studying the movements of the sun and the moon. Especially because the moon, you know, literally doesn't, you know, go below the horizon when you get to a certain latitude north, like in Orkney and places like that, that you would have easily been able to know this. You could have worked out the size and shape of the Earth by these observations and measurements quite easily.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right. Just from the shadows, I think.

[Hugh Newman]

I think, yeah, at certain times a year, as long as you stick to the same date, you can get different shadow lengths and things like this. Yeah. So that is fascinating to me. So these are little clues that I think the people of Gobekli Tepe were a scientific research project moving around the planet all in different directions. They wanted to go as far north as they could. That was the primary thing, I think. And then you have the book of Enoch. Not only they talk about taking chords and going off to measure, they describe horrific words, weather which would have been appropriate for Scotland.

[Podcast Host 2]

That's right. He talks about the winds being born and things like that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, really extreme weather. And also like really short, you know, really short days and long nights which you would get the further north you go. You know, things like this. Lots of little clues you keep finding. And so, I mean, this is. Again, we can't prove this yet or ever, I don't know, but hopefully one day. But it's an interesting idea because why were they making all these detailed measurements, all these different latitudes? Because we, you know, the Stonehenge latitude is. Is quite interesting as well, because. Well, yeah, it's very interesting because the summer solstice sunrise alignment, which is also the winter solstice sunset alignment, is marked at that specific latitude to go at a certain angle. But it's also got what's called the four station stones, like a rectangle around the edge of Stonehenge. And each of the alignments between these four stones zones mark the different extreme moon cycles, the 18.6 year metonic moon cycle. And they. They perfectly form this rectangle and then directly adjacent to that, perfectly, you know, perpendicular to that is the summer solstice alignment. Like it, like it's all just boom, it works. But if you were to go 20 miles south or north, that whole rectangle would warp to get the same results.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

So it's almost like they chose that latitude because it was important to them to make certain measurements of the moon combined with the solstice. So when you start looking at different latitudes, you find these different things. You would talk. Mentioned this earlier, quite interested in latitudes. I really got to credit the work of Howard Crowhurst. He's a great guy to talk to as well. He's. He's a minefield of information. And he's found that, that they were using different latitudes. In Britain. He started. That's where he lives. He's English, but he lives there. He found all these different latitudes very much focused on. On. They would mark where the sun would rise, the solstices. It would mark exactly the 3, 4, 5 triangle and things like this. Then when you go up to different latitudes in different parts of the world, it marked different angles like the golden section or the triple square or something like this. So all these different ideas started emerging. And he's written, he's written a lot about this. He's done it in England, he's done it in Britain. He started applying it to test Teplo as well. And I think we're to.

[Musical Performer]

Going.

[Hugh Newman]

Going to find more and more of that. That there was this scientific, very ancient project to go and measure the Earth and study what was going on. And it was probably to do with. After the last ice age, it was. It was to do with. Because there's cataclysm had taken place, things had changed. They wanted to. All the. Probably a lot of stuff got lost, a lot of sites destroyed, a lot of information went astray.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, clearly there's. There's technology that's gone. Yeah, that just disappeared.

[Hugh Newman]

I mean, but. But even with these, you don't, you don't need that much technology. You just need to be at the place and actually make the observations, keep the records usually encoded in myths and stories.

[Podcast Host 2]

Do you think there was practical reasons for this? Not so much ritualistic, but we need to measure this stuff so we don't go through that again.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, quite possibly. Yeah. They wanted to. Maybe it was a way of, you know, studying the sky to see if anything else like that might occur in the future. And actually you did a video about this based on Martin Sweatman's research about the cataclysm and how pillar 43 may encode that.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

And it was like a Warning and a concern. They wanted to get something down in stone so they could warn their future ancestors and things like this. So it could be the same principle, maybe the. The information that eventually ended up in places like a Beckley tip, it may have been collected from these people going around and collecting it from these different areas of the planet. So it's pretty epic when you get into it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Did you study any of Venus cycles?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, only a little because. Because that often works along with the winter solstice.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yes.

[Hugh Newman]

So we found that. Yeah, we do find that at Carahan Tepe. And this is really because in a book called Uriel's Machine. Uriel's Machine, Yeah, by Robert Lonis and Christopher Knight, they. It's a fantastic book if you've read it, and absolutely brilliant piece of work. And they found Newgrange and even Brinkeadley D Another burial chamber in Wales in Anglesey had this potential Venus alignment which would occur around the time of the winter solstice every eight years.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

And it would be bright enough to illuminate the inside of the chamber like the sun does on the winter solstice at Newgrange. So we applied that to Karahan Tepe. Same thing occurs there this, the. The starlight at certain times every eight years, if the conditions are correct, it would be bright enough before sunrise to shine through the porthole stone and illuminate the stone head.

[Podcast Host 2]

That same stone.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, the one we were talking about. Possibly. We haven't. We tried to go. We tried to do that in December. But the problem was that this part of the cycle is that Venus was too close to the sun, so you couldn't really see it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

It's hidden behind the light of the sun. And so. But another, you know, another few years, you might be able to catch it a couple of hours before the sun and then you're going to get. It's going to come up bright and you could catch a slight illumination exactly the same place of the sun a few hours later.

[Podcast Host 2]

I love the theory that, that the star of Bethlehem could actually be Venus, which makes a lot of sense.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah. And I think this is one of the calibration. It's not star is it's a planet, but it's a calibration of calendars as well, because it repeats a cycle every eight years and has longer cycles where it returns to its exact position, which can calibrate a longer cycle as well. Which is what we know the Mayans and the possibly the Olmecs.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

We're doing as well.

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[Hugh Newman]

So there's a lot going on in this part of the world potentially, you know, potentially.

[Podcast Host 2]

I think there is. Any more slides you want to show us before we let you go?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, for sure. Why don't we have a quick look at this?

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean I'll keep you here another hour if you want.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, okay. I want to have a quick. Well, while we're talking about, we mentioned the Mayan and the Olmecs. I wanted to mention this because this is like it's actually a new discovery in Olmec land. There's not many people know about this. Not this. This is quite a well known Omega. This is the largest Omega head at La Capata in the Santiago Tuxla town square in Mexico. They found 17 of these heads, but a potential 18th has been found, which I want to just quickly show show you now. This, this one's actually from Tresa Potes. This is one of the known ones. But you like the 3D scan, so I just thought I'd show this shows you some really beautiful little detail on it. These are gigantic. I mean some of these are up to 40 tons.

[Podcast Host 2]

40 tons.

[Hugh Newman]

Some are. Most of them are about 15, 20.

[Podcast Host 2]

Would they have been resting on the ground back then? What was the purpose of these?

[Hugh Newman]

Yes, these were, these would have been rested on the ground right there. Yeah, yeah. They wouldn't have had necks or bodies or anything like that like that. But yeah, these are fascinating to me. This is one of them. I mean this is much later. This is like 1500 BC at the earliest. Really?

[Podcast Host 2]

What do you think that hole is there for?

[Hugh Newman]

That I'm not sure about. You get a lot of this kind of obscure kind of carvings on these. But what I wanted to really show you is is this new discovery from La Venta there. This is a very, this is only discovered like less than a year ago and it's not been documented by anything academically. You know, a couple of friends of mine, Luke Caverns, he went There, went there. I've visited it as well and we kind of reported on it. And this is this. The one remaining Olmec site you can visit is 1500 or 1200 BC in Tabasco State. High level cartel activity there. Now it's very dangerous when we were there actually. But this is a very bizarre statue that was found. And it's like a female statue. It's kind of got this kind of feminine yoni kind of look to, to it. And it's beautifully shaped and carved. It's got an interior with carvings inside it. It's partly broken. But what on earth is this? This is so bizarre. It's. I just gotta look at this again. Look at this. I mean, you've got an entrance into it. It's almost like a female, you know, labyrinth, things like that.

[Podcast Host 2]

It does.

[Hugh Newman]

It's very, very interesting. And nothing like this I've seen in Olmec land. I've been going to omec now for 15 plus years. And so there are new discoveries still being made in places like this as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Now the fowls you see all the time, but rarely do you see something like that.

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Something like the opposite.

[Podcast Host 2]

The other side.

[Hugh Newman]

Then I had a chance, which is, I've been wanting to go here for literally over 15 years. This is the quarry of the Olmecs. This is called Jicaro. And I've been, I didn't know the location is hidden. No one knew the location. Only one archaeologist who we happened to bump into in a museum that he happens to be the curator of Alfredo degardo Jalapeno Museum. Doesn't speak any English. We speak very little Spanish. But we still managed to work out, can you take us to the quarry? And he said yes. We were like, ah. So we, we got to go. And like the thing about this quarry is, is that it's still used to relatively recently as a sacred place like where offerings are still made on some of the stones. And there's loads of megaliths still there, like this one here for instance. It's a half carved megalith.

[Podcast Host 1]

So no one knows where this is?

[Hugh Newman]

No, I mean even, even if I had the location of it, the GPS of it and I went there, I wouldn't be able to find it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

Because it's scattered around like several acres in private land. But it's boiling hot. It's like you can't see the stones unless you clear away the kind of the grass and everything. But what he thinks is found there is the, is another Olmec head. This one, one here is literally sitting beneath me there. And this is like a big discovery but no one's interested. It's like it's not really been documented at all. And this is a 3D scan I got. We gotta remember this has not been carved yet. This is the first phase of them digging this Olmec head right of the ground.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Hugh Newman]

And so yeah, not much to look at now, but it's the first, you know, piece of the puzzle. And so I just want to put this on here because you people, you know, got to realize there's stuff still being found, there's stuff still hidden in places like this. And when it comes to, you know, whole test Tepele sites, there's going to be a lot more coming out of there as well.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Hugh Newman]

And so I just absolutely fascinated by that about what is coming out of the ground.

[Podcast Host 2]

Hugh Newman, thank you so much for coming in today. This has been a joy.

[Hugh Newman]

My pleasure.

[Podcast Host 2]

This has been a treat.

[Hugh Newman]

Thanks, thanks again, really appreciate it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Buy his books and where can we find you online?

[Hugh Newman]

Yeah, sure, they could just google my name. Hugh Newman. Pretty easy to find. Also we have the megalithomania.co.uk website. We have a megalithomania YouTube channel and things like that, which is brilliant. Yeah, we don't got a thousand plus videos on there and other such things. Yeah, they can, they can just contact us through there. I mean we, we do the, obviously we do the conference every May. It's our 20th anniversary. You can come along if you want to come to fancy, fancy town called Glastonbury. And we, we do another conference called the Origins Conference sometimes in November in Wiltshire. And we have, we go much more into the deep origins of civilization. That kind of vibe. A bit less megaliths but more super ancient stuff. And that's, that's a collaboration with Andrew Collins as well. And we take, we do take groups out as well to many of these sites we've been talking about. We take tours out there that, that really helps us because it helps fund our projects because we're completely independent. This is like full time thing. We really want to have time to focus on our research and getting the books out and getting the research, you know, put in place. And it takes a lot of time and energy as you know, with this kind of thing when you're researching your, your shows, it's pretty intense and we encourage people to, you know, check out what we're up to and maybe join us in Turkey or in some other part of the world where we take groups to. We have a lot of fun.

[Podcast Host 2]

I'm going to take you up on that. And next time you're in, we'll talk about the haunted house you live in.

[Hugh Newman]

Oh, my God.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, that's a whole other story, everybody.

[Podcast Host 1]

So Hugh Newman, that was dense and we covered a lot and I could have talked to him for another two hours. So let's break it down. Here's what we can verify. Hugh is the real deal. He's been running the megalithomania conference since 2006. You've seen him on Ancient Aliens, all kinds of TV shows. He's published multiple books.

[Podcast Host 2]

I can prove it.

[Hugh Newman]

I have the books.

[Podcast Host 1]

Giants of Stonehenge, Giants on rec. These are great books on giants he published. I'll get there.

[Podcast Host 2]

It's not a professional operation.

[Podcast Host 1]

Earth's grids, stone circles and Gobekli Tepe and Karan Tepe, the world's first megaliths. I know it's small, but it's still. It's good. It's good. Look, it's bigger than any book I ever wrote. Anyway, he's been to these places dozens of times and he's not speculating from his couch. He's out there measuring T pillars and flying a drone while dodging the Turkish military. Now, the sites themselves are well documented. Gobekli Tepe dates to around 9,600 BC, and Karahan Tepe is dated to roughly 9,400 BC. These are accepted dates from the German Archaeological Institute and ongoing Turkish excavations. The terrazzo floors, the 3D relief carvings, the bedrock engineering, that's all confirmed. We talk about Dr. Martin Sweaton at the University of Edinburgh. He published a peer reviewed paper in 2017 arguing that pillar 43, that's the vulture Stone, that that encodes a date corresponding to the Younger Dryas impact. It took them like two or three years to get that through because it's controversial, but now it's published science, so things may be coming around. Alexander Tom, I've talked about him before.

[Podcast Host 2]

He's the guy who came up with the megalithic yard.

[Podcast Host 1]

2.72ft. He's found it all over ancient sites. And he came up with that number from surveying over 500 stone circles across Britain. And he published in Megalithic Sites in Britain in 1967. It's controversial, but it's fun. Now, the big claims, Hugh says he's finding those same measurement systems. The megalithic yard, the perspective Persian foot, the Sumerian foot, he says he's finding them at Gobekl Tepe and Karahan Tepe. Now, that would push back standardized metrology, which is the study of measurement. It would push that back 7,000 years earlier than mainstream archaeology accepts.

[Podcast Host 2]

I like annoying them.

[Podcast Host 1]

He also suggests the builders were measuring the Earth itself, encoding its dimensions into the distances between sites. 1 million Persian feet from Gobekli Tepe to Stonehenge. 1 million. Even the diameter of the Earth encoded in the distance to Peru's Poikancha. Now, these are huge claims and I couldn't independently verify those specific distance calculations. And his measurement work at the Turkish sites hasn't been peer reviewed yet, and he acknowledges that. But the numbers are interesting enough to keep watching. The winter solstice alignment at Karahan Tepe, Hugh and JJ Ainsworth witnessed sunlight passing through a carved pothole and illuminating a stone head. Only on the solstice. They'd gone back multiple years. And it keeps happening. You can go see for yourself. Now, if that's engineered, and it sure looks like it is, then these people understood precision astronomy 6,000 years before Stonehenge. Now, that's a problem for the conventional timeline line, and it's the kind of problem I like. Look, Hugh's a guy who shows up, he measures things, he puts his data out there for everyone to check out. He's not trying to sell you aliens or lost continents. He's just saying the math doesn't add up with the story that we've been told. And I think he's right that we need more disciplines at the table, like acoustics, astronomy, metrology, not just guys who studied pottery. Now, if you want to go deeper. And you should check out his books. Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe. The World's First Megaliths. That's the one to start with. That title's so big, it hardly fits

[Podcast Host 2]

on the tiny book.

[Podcast Host 1]

I'm sorry, I'm just joking. Of course it's good. I read it last night. Start there. His YouTube channel.

[Podcast Host 2]

I'll probably link down below.

[Podcast Host 1]

It's Megalithomania UK. I think he's got over a thousand videos on there. I've been a sub of his for a long time and if you ever see him talking to Andrew Collins, definitely, definitely watch those. His website is. I gotta read this. Megalithomania.co.uk now, if you're feeling adventurous, he runs tours to these sites. Now, I'm thinking about taking one because he has access to places that most people can't get.

[Podcast Host 2]

Tim Hogan we had on here a

[Podcast Host 1]

couple weeks ago is the same thing. I guess we have A lot of tours coming up now. I've done episodes that overlap a lot with what Hughes covered. Derinkuyu the megalithic yard proving Atlantis Book of Enoch. I kept going back to Enoch because I'm obsessed with it. Giants of Malta is an episode all worth a rewatch after this conversation. Did I get all of it? I think I did. Until next time, be safe, be kind and know that you are appreciated.

[Musical Performer]

I play Polypia scenario 51 a secret code inside the Bible said I was I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music song sang in the like I But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends and it never ends no, it never end. I feel the crap cat I got stuck inside Mel's home with them Chaos trap of being only 2 aware

[Podcast Host 1]

did

[Musical Performer]

Stanley Cubric fake the moon landing alone on a film set or were the shadow people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man I'm told and his name was cold I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish and fish on Thursday nights Wednesday J and W. Through the night. The madman sightings and the solar storm still come to a G the secret city underground mysterious number stations planet circle to project Star Game and where the dock Rock Watchers foundation don't you worry though the Black Knight satellite. I'm dancing with the fish head. I ever wanted was to just hear the truth of weapons and repeat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth

[Podcast Host 1]

Life.

[Musical Performer]

Love to dance on the dance floor because she is a camel and camels love to dance when the feeling is right Right Always in time.