The Basement: Nerdrotic | From Folsom Prison to Millions of Subscribers

Summary

The Why Files: Operation Podcast

Episode: The Basement: Nerdrotic | From Folsom Prison to Millions of Subscribers

Date: May 4, 2026
Host: The Why Files: Operation Podcast
Guest: Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)

---

Episode Overview

This gripping and candid episode features internet personality Gary Buechler, widely known as Nerdrotic. The discussion traces Gary’s remarkable journey from a troubled upbringing and time in Folsom State Prison to his redemption through sobriety and his eventual rise to fame as a pop culture commentator and YouTube influencer. The conversation is raw, brutally honest, and often humorous, exploring addiction, trauma, pop culture, and the pitfalls and rewards of internet fame.

---

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Pop Culture, Positivity & What’s Worth Watching

[06:07 - 11:15]

• Gary highlights three recent favorites: A Night of the Seven Kingdoms (an adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s novella), One Piece Season 2, and Project Hail Mary:

  “A Night of the Seven Kingdoms was damn near 10 out of 10... a really simple tale of heroism and what it means to be a knight.” (Gary, 06:10)

  “I love season one and I love season two [of One Piece]... The one thing they have in common is a positive look at the world.” (Gary, 07:26)

• Both Gary and the host decry the prevalence of “cooked” nihilism in modern entertainment and call for a return to hopeful storytelling.
• They praise the revival of theaters with movies like Top Gun Maverick and the enduring appeal of classic hero tales.
• The conversation touches on how political messaging works in shows, contrasting Roddenberry’s Star Trek (“story first”) with current heavy-handedness.

---

2. Early Life, Adoption, and Childhood Trauma

[19:12 - 24:44]

• Gary was adopted as an infant, told at age 7—a revelation that deeply affected his sense of belonging:

  “You don’t feel wanted... always thinking about that person who just dumped you.” (Gary, 22:33)

• In second grade, he was molested by a teacher, fueling a lifelong distrust of authority and traumatic anger issues:

  “Way worse than finding out I was adopted... I was molested by a teacher.” (Gary, 24:30)

  “If you want to put a finger on my distrust of the government, the system, my... I don’t like teachers unions because they protect people like this.” (Gary, 25:23)

---

3. Descent into Delinquency and Substance Abuse

[27:02 - 36:52]

• Early petty crimes and substance abuse started before his teens:

  “First time I really got drunk was at about 11... I loved the feeling.” (Gary, 28:03)

• Progression from pot and alcohol to speed (“crank”) and meth as early as junior high.
• School could not hold his attention; he felt lost and angry.
• Ultimately expelled from high school after punching a teacher:

  “[That punch] was the end of my school career.” (Gary, 35:27)

• Parents, especially his father, made hard decisions to let him experience consequences, which Gary now recognizes as acts of love.

---

4. Real Consequences: Crime, Jail, and Folsom Prison

[41:17 - 77:25]

• Frequent minor crimes escalate to dealing drugs, burglaries, and repeated jail time.
• Notable stories include:
  • The infamous “water bottle full of pennies” theft that landed him a year in county jail.
  • Breaking into a gun collector’s house, leading to his final, life-changing prison sentence:

    “I could have just strangled the dog... There’s no way in hell I was gonna kill a dog.” (Gary, 53:04)

  • Chilling experience arriving at Old Folsom, including intimidation from hardened lifers:

    “Hey, Goldilocks, you want my sack lunch?... I need to cut my hair.” (Gary, 62:22)

  • Sharing a cell with a double murderer who psychologically tormented him, leading to a violent confrontation:

    “I had a Walkman in my hand and I bashed his face in.” (Gary, 76:00)

---

5. Redemption: Sobriety, Routine & Recovery

[78:12 - 92:21]

• Critical advice from fellow inmates: develop a routine and a plan for life.

  “Find a routine. You get up at the same time... it helps the time go faster.” (Gary, 68:15)

• Took AA meetings seriously for the first time, realizing “life can get better.”
• Upon release, profound feeling of gratitude:

  “I wish I could bottle, like, the feeling I had that day because I wanted for nothing... It was pure freedom.” (Gary, 89:15)

• Steps to rebuild: attending meetings, avoiding old crowds, and starting over with humility.
• Inventory work and continued self-examination through the AA steps:

  “Step four is never over... Personal inventory. And we’re always making new mistakes.” (Gary, 96:53)

---

6. Building a New Life: From Warehouse to Comic Shop Entrepreneur

[97:16 - 117:47]

• Began working music/video retail, then shifted to selling auto parts, all while maintaining sobriety and accountability.
• Opens a San Francisco comic shop (Comic Outpost), just as the comic book renaissance begins. The business thrives for several years.

  “I'm going to be the normie superhero family store, because that's the one thing not here.” (Gary, 113:57)

• Got into video production courses, setting up for future media success.

---

7. Relapse, Recovery, and Second Chance at Family

[117:53 - 135:53]

• Suffered a relapse into opioid and then cocaine addiction, hidden from family and friends.

  “The disease just kicked in at that point... I had already relapsed because for a minute, I had it in my head that I hadn't relapsed.” (Gary, 120:00)

• Lost his business and faced threatened family structure; wife Melissa intervenes, leading to rehab and a hard-fought return to sobriety.

  “This is way more dangerous than when I was younger... my main motivation was: I am not going to be that dad.” (Gary, 133:23)

• Honest about the challenges of starting over, swallowing pride, and taking entry-level jobs again while working on recovery.

---

8. Creation of Nerdrotic & Rise of the Commentary Empire

[136:44 - 146:41]

• Launches his first podcast out of a Starbucks as a form of recovery and positive distraction.
• The Nerdrotic YouTube channel slowly grows, first as a podcast back-end, then as pop culture commentary. Gradual climb to monetization, driven by authenticity:

  “I was just doing it for fun... kept me out of trouble... it was doing something I truly loved.” (Gary, 145:43)

• Viral success with a video on The Expanse cancellation brings his first taste of viral attention.
• Emphasizes the importance of staying humble and engaging with the real audience, not the media “access crowd.”

---

9. Pop Culture Critique: “Access Media” and IP Controversies

[148:57 - 175:45]

• Coined the term “access media” for outlets more interested in Hollywood access than honest criticism.

  “They’ll gas up gaslight things that aren’t very good so they can maintain their access...” (Gary, 157:32)

• Explains how Hollywood shifted to prioritizing social messaging over story—e.g., Star Wars, Doctor Who, Star Trek—and why he thinks this failed.
• His positions, often criticized as “far right,” are clarified as pro-story, not anti-diversity or anti-woman:

  “I just came out and said the Doctor’s not a woman... and at that time that could get you suspended on Twitter.” (Gary, 166:14)

• Critiques of recent Star Wars, MCU, and Doctor Who stem from narrative decisions, not identity politics.

  “It’s okay to adapt something properly... they have plenty of room in original material to do whatever messaging they want.” (Gary, 178:15)

---

10. Internet Influence, Fame, and Impact

[176:47 - 181:27]

• Major studios and Hollywood now monitor channels like Nerdrotic to “read the room.”
• Warns against arrogance and relapse:

  “I try to keep things very much in check that I am just an idiot with a microphone.” (Gary, 179:04)

• Friday Night Tights emerges as a weekly pop culture talk show with a diverse, boisterous panel.
• Forbidden Frontier covers ancient mysteries, UAPs, and topics inspired by Art Bell and Graham Hancock.

---

11. Ancient Mysteries, UFO Disclosure, and Forbidden Frontier

[181:41 - 197:28]

• Gary’s love for ancient civilizations and mysteries, including fieldwork in Peru, Egypt, and soon Japan.

  “Going to Sacsyhuamán for the first time... is mind-blowing... when you go there and you see like, how in the hell did they do this?” (Gary, 191:37)

• Open-minded skepticism for theories about lost civilizations, ETs, and government disclosure.
• Critical of establishment archaeologists and their reluctance to accept revisionist theories, especially regarding the Giza pyramids and the Sphinx.

---

12. Sobriety, Daily Practice, and Words of Inspiration

[197:54 - 200:27]

• Discusses the mechanics of daily gratitude practice:

  “It’s a mindset of turning it around by thinking of three things you’re thankful for... my kids like me... and we have this amazing job.” (Gary, 198:07)

• Encourages anyone struggling with addiction:

  “They [the listener] are the most important person in their life... and people love them, people care about them, and the world can still benefit from them turning stuff around. It’s never too late.” (Gary, 199:29)

---

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Relatable Pop Culture:

  “I’m so sick of nihilism... seeing heroes with a positive outlook, seeing something hopeful is nice.” (Gary, 08:08)

• On Authority and Trust:

  “If you want to put a finger on my distrust of the government, the system… it really set me up to completely fail in school. Not trust any adult, not trust any authority.” (Gary, 25:23)

• On Prison Mentality:

  “The best advice I heard... find a routine. You get up the same time, you do the same things every day... humans need to feel some accomplishment.” (Gary, 68:13)

• On Recovery:

  “It will not be easy. But I can also promise you it will get better way faster than you think... go to meetings.” (Gary, 199:31)

---

Timeline of Major Life Events

• Childhood: Adopted, molested by teacher, early defiance and crime.
• Teens: Substance abuse (alcohol, pot, meth), expelled from school, petty crime.
• Early 20s: Escalates to burglaries, county jail, then Folsom State Prison for first-degree burglary.
• Incarceration: Faces real danger, psychological torment, and turning points in recovery.
• Post-prison: Gradual rebuilding, relapse into addiction, near loss of family and business.
• Recovery and Rise: Final sobriety, working entry-level jobs, returning to comics, then creating Nerdrotic.
• Internet Fame: Builds Nerdrotic channel and Friday Night Tights, becomes a leading pop culture critic.
• Current: Maintains sobriety, gratitude practice, and a thriving online media operation with family support.

---

Intriguing & Emotional Moments

• [35:27] The End of School: Gary punches his teacher, marking his total break from conventional society.
• [53:04] The Dog Dilemma: In the midst of a burglary, faced with the option to harm a dog, Gary refuses:

  “There’s no way I’m gonna kill a dog.”

• [89:15] Day of Release: The overwhelming sense of total freedom after leaving prison.
• [125:05] Intervention: Gary’s wife, Melissa, organizes an intervention, leading to real change.
• [199:31] Message to Addicts:

  “They are the most important person in their lives... it's never too late.”

---

Closing

Gary’s story is one of deep struggle, hard-won recovery, and unfiltered commentary on culture and media. His honesty about trauma, addiction, recovery, and the relentless pursuit of purpose offers hope for anyone fighting their own battles, while his rise as Nerdrotic reflects a new era where authenticity can connect millions—and even change the direction of major studios.

---

For more:

• Gary’s memoir: "Wading From Prison to YouTube" (Amazon)
• Channel: Nerdrotic
• Shows: Friday Night Tights (Fridays), Forbidden Frontier

---

“It’s never too late. And if you try sobriety... it will get better way faster than you think.”
—Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic), [199:31]

Transcript

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You you can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support. Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to Talkspace.com. match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] now that's Talkspace.com, promo code SPACE80. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month, so Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can. You can even text your therapist between sessions if you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support. Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] now that's talkspace.com, promo code space80.

[Interviewer/Host]

Today I'm talking with Gary Buechler. You probably know him as Nerdrotic. Gary has built a media empire around pop culture commentary, Friday night tights, forbidden frontier, and a YouTube channel that Hollywood studios now quietly track. Yeah, so Hollywood finally figured out how to read the room. And the room says we hate everything you make Nice. But before any of this existed. Gary grew up in San Diego in the 80s, and he spent years running from a trauma that he never shared with anyone. Ladies, San Diego has top gun, peach volley pool, and endless amounts of potty powder. He's running from it, but I'm running to it. I feel the need I feel the need. Do it or I'll sing. Take my breath away. I'm not doing it. I feel the need.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Fine.

[Interviewer/Host]

The need for speed the need for speed. Gary eventually ended up at Old Folsom State Prison, not New Folsom. Old Folsom. Johnny Cash Folsom. I didn't know there were two Folsoms. You're not gonna like it. Well, today we cover all of it. The second grade teacher who changed his life, what it's like to share a cell with a double murderer, and how he went from sleeping in his car to. To building a YouTube empire. Let's go down to the basement. Gary, welcome to the basement.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Why, thank you. That's embarrassing.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's all good. Before we get started, I ask everyone this question. Ufo, experienced researchers, physicists, concerned, Same question. Hypothetical desert island. You get one choice. What flavor? Toilet wine.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Toilet wine, what flavor? I would say pruno. Pruno. It would have to be pruno, which is made from oranges.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, you go orange.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, I have to. I mean, like, I would have to break my sobriety because, like, I'm dead. Right? Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, that's totally hypothetical.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I would rather grow cocoa plants. If I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out. Good. But, yeah, orange. That's. That's the one I'm the most familiar with. I never touched the stuff, but I certainly helped people make it and helped people hide it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I read.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yes, it's. It's oranges. I believe it's yeast. And you let it ferment for a little while.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why they call it toilet wine?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, well, I'm. Sometimes you need to get your water from places other. They mostly get it from the sink, but I think that's just the term they use. Plus, it's usually hidden around the toilet or under a bunk. It can only last for so long because they. They search the cells pretty regularly and randomly, so it has to be. I honestly, I don't know how they do it. They were able to switch cells and probably a guard tipped them off at some point. You know, some bribery. But, like, it's in, like, bags. It's in trash bags.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was the weirdest thing to learn about people making wine in the Joint.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And apparently it's really strong.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it's like really, really strong wine.

[Interviewer/Host]

Strong for wine. It's not like booze, though.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. But when you're. You got a bunch of guys who haven't drank or anything for months, it'll probably hit them pretty hard.

[Interviewer/Host]

I bet it would. And you've had. You've had alcohol before and.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Before we go into the origin story. I know you've told it a million times. It's such a good story. When I was reading it, I cried at the end, and I felt myself getting angry at you during it, especially because I know you and you're a friend. I love you, so I know how it ends.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Love you too, man.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I just want to smack you in the head every. Every step of the way. Which we're gonna get into before we do the origin story. Kick it off positive. What's on TV or whatever movie that you're liking right now.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Three things have come out this year.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you got?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

A Night of the Seven Kingdoms was damn near 10 out of 10. Just a great adaptation of a great novella by George R.R. martin, who needs to finish his other books. It is a really simple tale of heroism and what it means to be a knight and chivalry. And while it still has some of the Game of Thrones aspects of it, it's very. It's very linear, and you can't help but root for both dunk and egg. And it was a short series, and it built momentum as time went on. And I just absolutely loved every minute of it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I did, too. I didn't start knights until it was like, episode three. And I started like this. Just arms folded because of. Just angry at everybody. Angry at season six, all that Dark Knight, angry at George. I don't know how many days we are waiting for the last book.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Over 5,000.

[Interviewer/Host]

5,000?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And of course, he's executive producer, so I watched. I don't know, I was maybe 10 minutes into the first episode, and I was like, okay, they did it. This is really true to the books, as I've read those. And I loved it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Number two, One Piece, season two. Absolutely loved it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Never thought I would like this show. I'm not like, the biggest anime fan in the world. When I saw the trailer for season one, it looked like the worst thing I've ever seen. I love season one and I love season two.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really? I'm not an anime guy. That's interesting.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's it in the same vein of the three things I like are a Night of the Seven Kingdoms, Project Hail Mary and One Piece. And the one thing they have in common is a positive look at the world. I'm so sick to. I like nihilism. I did. I liked all that subversion stuff back in the 2000 and tens when it was cool. It is so overdone. I am. It's just, it's cooked at this point, as the kids say. Gen Z thinks they came up with that.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's been around for 100 years. Okay. Just want to let you know. No, but seeing heroes with a positive outlook, seeing something hopeful is nice. It's just really nice. And I love all three of those things. And I'm, you know, it makes you. Makes you wonder if they can turn things around. Probably not.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you know, was your number three. Hail Mary.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Hail Mary, Love Project. Hail Mary.

[Interviewer/Host]

I. That could, that could save Hollywood, at least for a while because that brought everybody back to the theaters.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It did. Top Gun, Maverick did the same thing. That's what I was about to say three years ago. And they learned nothing from it. And they thought it was just this jingoistic picture, patriotic movie. It's like, no, it was just a feel good heroic story. That. And the reason we go to the theater or you have to make this distinction for, for popcorn movies, for tent pole movies is to escape.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't need to be lectured to. There are certainly spaces and times for those movies. You can make them all day long as independent films. But when it comes to I want to take my family or I want to just go and have a good time and turn off the rest of the world, that. That's when Hollywood is doing their best and that's when they actually put good in the world. They. They really love to think that they're changing the world. And what they're not providing entertainment. They're a platform for influence. AJ and we're going to teach those plebs out in middle America how to think. You know, instead of just going, you know, let's just entertain them. And it brings people together. And we've lost that with the division. I think some in Hollywood are starting to recognize that the problem is it's. It's like Twitter before Elon took over. The cancer was there and you have to cut it out root and stem. And it's. I don't think it's possible in Hollywood. I think there will be some change. But I think the lesson we can learn from Project Hail Mary is this is what people want. I mean, it's just a nice hopeful story with a really dark, you know, the world is ending.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

In it. And it like, it made me want to watch all the space movies. So I've watched 2001, which is amazing. Interstellar contacts, 10 out of 10 contact's still the best.

[Interviewer/Host]

Contacts the best. The ending, it's okay. Arrival, if that was solid, let me push back on one thing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this is not going to be a political show because people are going to be surprised. You're not a political guy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Gene Roddenberry put his politics in his shows and we love the original series, so his politics were in there. Why did they work?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They worked because they weren't that heavy handed and when they approached the audience, it was, in a way, if you want to change somebody's mind, I would discourage you going, hey, bigot, listen to me. You know, that's, that's not how you change people's mind. The defenses automatically go up. So what they do is they present to you the idea and it, and they leave it kind of up to you. In a lot of Star Trek, they leave. In a lot of X Files, they leave it up to you to kind of see that stuff. And that's, that's the mark of a good writer. And we certainly know where Gene Roddenberry's, you know, politics come from. But we also have to consider the time he grew up, in the time he, you know, he went to, not grew up, but, you know, he went to World War II. He, he, he's a writer who lived a life we have. Right. None of the writers, not most of the writers in current Hollywood have not lived the lives of the writers of even 10 or 20 years ago who were veterans or had careers before writing. Now they're just their, their knowledge of the world is other TV shows and riffing other TV shows.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. And I think Roddenberry was always story first. So his politics were there he wanted, but his politics were just, let's all get along, make the world a better place. But it was always about the story.

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time, you can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a $0 copay. Men's Health Awareness month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] that's talkspace.com promo code space80.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that's flipped a little bit with

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

some properties, particularly with Star Trek. Yes, Star Trek lost its way and that's why right now, for the first time in 10 years, there's no Star Trek in production. In my humble opinion, there hasn't been any Star Trek in production in that time. Except for Picard season three. I like it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Pull but bring back. Yes, I was the same way. And I was all in on Star Trek, all of it. I'm a niner. DS9, that's my favorite.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's good.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I stuck with Discovery for a long time. Eventually I was just out. I was so disappointed and I never came back. Except I heard you talking about Picard, which I started and it was, I was terrible. And season three was that it was like now they finally figured it out. Now how did that, how did it happen that we got the story that we wanted as Star Trek fans, Kurtzman

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

and Akiva Goldsman, who. Akiva Goldsman's won an Academy Award. Right. But he's not really. And he wrote Constantine, which is actually a good movie. Not really good at Star Trek in my opinion, at all. And Picard season one or two are the like last Jedi of Star Trek. They're so just. Picard is a broken old man. So it got better because Kurtzman went off to go do the man who Fell to Earth. And it was obligatory that they have. They. They owed Patrick Stewart a third season, so they gave him no money. Basically the entire series is a bottle series and. But he had no supervision and he was able to do whatever he wanted. Word on the street is he was able to fire everybody he wanted to except for one person. He made that one person work. I won't say who it is, but he made that one person work and he brought back the crew and he just. It was a bunch of fan service and he had to do mental gymnastics to. To bring back the Enterprise D and the like and it worked. It was. And the funniest bit at the end. Well, they gave Star Trek fans something Star wars fans didn't get. We had the crew of the Enterprise on the Enterprise D at the end of an episode. Just together. The carpet, the lighting, everything. It's all we wanted.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's all we wanted.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's all we wanted. And you know, logic be damned. And the best part at the end was there was a virus from the Borg that affected only young people. It was a mind virus. So that's how they worked it out. Where the old people had to come in and save the young people. It was great.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right? Like, are you getting it? When. When Wharf showed up, did you. How I was screaming when Wharf showed up. Absolute scene. Michael Dorn's just still bringing it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's my favorite. My. Outside of the original series, that is my favorite modern Star Trek character. He. He ruled.

[Interviewer/Host]

He was the best. The best moment in Picard Season three for me was when such fan service. So gratuitous. I loved it is when they were at the shipyard. Look. Going through all the ships. And you just hear the theme song. Woven through.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I was. The tears are coming down. I was just. I was a mess.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You're like, I. I didn't know I needed this.

[Interviewer/Host]

I knew I did. I knew I. But I didn't know it would be executed so perfectly. It was. It was just.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it came from somebody who. Like Terry Matalis. You can't deny the man loves Star Trek. Like, loves Star Trek and probably, I don't know, David Ellison, if you're out there. Because of course you watch the Y Files, that's probably the guy you should hire.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's the guy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Right. To run Star Trek right now. Be my. My suggestion.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think he might do it. I don't know if. If Kurtzman's gonna get another project after Starfleet Academy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I, I. If he does, Paramount, Warner Brothers are done. They're done. They're done as a company like that because that really tells you what the path is. I don't think he's coming back. I think.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't think so either. And whenever I hear you or drinker or people saying Star Trek is over, I know you don't mean it. I know that if it comes back and they give you what you want, you're coming right back. Of course. Of course.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Of course. I'm a fan. I, I love Star Trek. Is part of your life. Part of my life. We didn't have a lot of tv not to age Us too much. But we have, what, three channels to choose from?

[Interviewer/Host]

Three.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I was lucky because I was in San Diego, so I had six, because we had the San Diego and we got the LA stations.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So. But they all played the same stuff, you know, but it was just Star Trek, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Gilligan's island, like, on heavy rotation.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's so weird you said Gilligan's island, because I was just thinking that as you said what we watched. We watched Gilligan's island all the time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

All the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't know why. And the original Batman was always on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The first superhero shows I watched were George Reeves, Superman, and Adam West. Batman, yes, same. And I thought it was. I was a kid, so I'm like, this is totally a serious show. This is an earnest show.

[Interviewer/Host]

I forget the name of it. The book is around here somewhere. It's a story about George Reeves and the horrible life that he had. It's really worth reading. He's a tragedy, but he was a great Superman. So we've been friends for a long time, and I've been a fan of yours probably during COVID so. A long time. And I know you've told your origin story a million times. You have a lot of fans here at the studio. And I was talking to one of them just the other day, and I said, oh, man, Gary's gonna tell his prison story again. And she goes, what? He was in prison? So apparently people don't know. Some. Some people don't know that you did real time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And comparatively.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, reading your memoir, there were times where I was actually scared because you're so honest in it. About. You're really honest in it, which we'll get into. Really surprisingly honest. So when you establish that honesty very early on, like with what happened when you were a kid.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now I never know what's gonna happen. Like, it's like a George Martin novel. Right. You never know who's gonna die next because. So it's established. So when you're in prison, I'm just waiting for the tragedy. And eventually things do happen. So I want to hear about the beginning even before. Talk about. You're adopted.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. I was my. My birth mom, who I am in contact with to this very day, who's a lovely woman, got pregnant with me when she was 16. She was a partier back in the 60s, you know, as the. And I don't hold this against her at all. She's, again, she's a wonderful Catholic. Good Catholic woman. And my. My sperm donor dad, who I've never met. Don't know what he looks like. Don't care.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you angry about him?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, not at all.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, I mean, I understand. He was young too, but I figured if. If he wanted to find me, he. He could find me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I had a dad, though, so I. In the dad department, totally taken care of, so I was adopted.

[Interviewer/Host]

So. Wait, hang on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Very young.

[Interviewer/Host]

We. If you met your birth mother, you didn't ask about your father.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I've asked about him, but I've never really.

[Interviewer/Host]

What did she say?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She. She doesn't know. She. Like, once he was gone, he was gone. So he promised to. To stay with her. He was. The only thing I know about him is his name, and he was a Seventh Day Adventist, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Wasn't practicing very well, I guess.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was he good to her

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

up until the end? Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, up until the end. And he said he'd stay and this would be a quit. She doesn't really talk about it a bunch, and I don't push, but he had promised to stay, and then he took off.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And he was at the time, I think, 18, so it's like I. I

[Interviewer/Host]

kind of get it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's why it's okay. You know, I kind of get.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, I'm not. Was I angry about it when I was younger? Absolutely. But I'm not now.

[Interviewer/Host]

When did you find out you were adopted?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Very early, I think. My parents told me when I was seven.

[Interviewer/Host]

When you were seven?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Six or seven? Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did that conversation start?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, what little I remember of it. My mom and dad both just wanted to, like. They sat down and go, we love you the same is Terry, you know, but we have to tell you this. That's. It's foggy, that conversation, but I remember it tripping me out for a listen. If you're adopted, I'm sure it affects people differently, but it affects you. It does. It's like I. You, You. You don't feel wanted. And you're always thinking about that person

[Interviewer/Host]

who, like, who just dumped you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

What does she look like?

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Why did she do this? You know, why did.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why were you rejected?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And you're trying to deal with stuff like that when you're like seven years old, so. I used to. Yeah, I used to, like, have little fantasies about it when I was a kid. But, like, honestly, I never got mad at my parents about it. And other than feeling the abandonment, when

[Interviewer/Host]

is a good age to tell an adopted boy?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't know if there's ever A good. I think early as possible is the best way to do it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Seven feels really hard.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. But if you wait too long.

[Interviewer/Host]

True.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's true. I don't know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Honestly, I don't know a good answer to that question. But soften the blow with me because again, it's going to affect you no matter what. So do you affect early or late? That's on the parent to do that. I don't have a good suggestion for that, but for me, it wasn't terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you were kind of a little asshole.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

For a long time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Long time. Do you think some might argue I still am?

[Interviewer/Host]

Some might. I wouldn't. But you're kind of an asshole. Your poor parents, man. Reading the book, I'm like, they're still sticking with this kid. If they had told you a little later, do you think you would have been a little more chill?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Maybe

[Interviewer/Host]

because there's an undercurrent of anger in your origin story.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Railing against the man authority, all of that. It's. The anger is coming from somewhere because when you're 11 or 12, you don't really know anything. So what are you angry about? So if they waited.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

If they waited, I don't think it would have helped my anger. Maybe a more mature 12, because I wasn't super mature. But that was because of the things that had. I, I, if, if anything that made me angry. We can talk about, like, what happened to me in school.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let's do it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is way worse than finding out I was adopted. Was. I was molested by a teacher. By a school teacher.

[Interviewer/Host]

So how old?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I was in second grade. So whatever age second grade is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Six or seven.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So right around the same time. Right around the same time.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a busy year.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's a.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you singled out by that teacher?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't know. It felt like I was, but I honestly don't know. And he was brazen about it. Like he would. Like during. We were watching a Disney movie. Maybe this is why I hate Disney. We were watching a Disney movie and he pulled me in the back and while the kids are watching and did stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I was about to say nothing horrible, but no, it was horrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course it was.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was all horrible. Right. So this. I. If you want to, like, put a finger on my deep distrust of the government, the system, my. I don't like teachers unions because they protect. This is not A.J. this is me. They protect people like this.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it's been proven that they do this and they don't do Anything about it. So it really set me up to completely fail in school. Not trust any adult, not trust any authority.

[Interviewer/Host]

So there's definitely anger there that you're carrying. You didn't. You didn't tell anyone about what the teacher was doing, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No parents? No. Didn't tell. As a matter of fact, I got. When one day was particularly bad, I bailed on. On school. I just walked out of school.

[Interviewer/Host]

Second grade.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, in second grade. So there's a little second grader walking home on this busy La Costa Avenue, if you're familiar with Southern California. Little second grader. And people started noticing that, they called the school bus driver came and got me, and I got in trouble. I got in huge trouble for it.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's interesting.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I couldn't say what. What I was. You know, they're all, why'd you leave?

[Interviewer/Host]

That would make any kid angry.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because here you are taking the heat for it. And you have no idea what I've been through. I was angry at that teacher the whole way through your book. I know you were through your sobriety. We'll get to that. But how you got through that is amazing. I don't know if I could.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So,

[Interviewer/Host]

second grade, when did you start becoming a delinquent?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not far after that, I broke. I wanted a toy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And knew where the spare key was and broke into my friend's house. Got caught by his dad. You know, like all this. This is at a single digit.

[Interviewer/Host]

Single digit.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Broke into my first house.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, a theme just because I

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

wanted something throughout your book.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're just the worst criminal ever. You're just not good at it, Gary. No, I'm not good at it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Stupid as hell. Still am, by the way. But yeah, it just, you know, I just like, I. I remember, I remember getting caught, of course. Yeah. And you know, I went home and they told my dad and I got in a huge amount of trouble. But it never discouraged me. No, it didn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

You kept going back?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I kept doing it.

[Interviewer/Host]

What about substances, Booze and stuff? When did that start?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That started. Oh, God, 11:10, 11:12.

[Interviewer/Host]

How is that even around an 11 year old?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, pot was around. Sure, pot was around. But first time I. I really got drunk was at Roscoe, South Dakota. They had a centennial or. Yeah, centennial. And there was like half drinking beers laying around. And I'm like, oh, just want to try this? Because my dad would let me sip a beer.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I saw everybody else getting drunk. I'm like, ah, let's try it. And I loved it. I was like, oh, so I'm drinking like people. I don't know what the hell's in this can. I just.

[Interviewer/Host]

I didn't care. You love the drink or you love the feeling?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I love the feeling. Drink tastes like crap.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. I've never liked the taste of alcohol,

[Interviewer/Host]

but the escape is pretty good.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. That's where it all started. I'm like, oh, this is for me. This is for me. And then it went to pot. And not. Not too far after that. A friend of mine, like, laid out a. A line of. Of. Of crystal meth, which is a lot. I guess, a lot different now than it was back then. It was called crank back then.

[Interviewer/Host]

How old are you now when the.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is junior high.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you holding now? You have anything decent?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Anything good? No, nothing. Nothing good. No. Now I've got some nicotine things that. There you go. There you go. Yeah, I have one bad habit still. I vape.

[Interviewer/Host]

That is not your only bad habit, but that's fine.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, right now, no. So. Okay, so I'm.

[Interviewer/Host]

So where's your crank? Who are you hanging out with? I didn't see. I hardly saw pot growing up.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it's not like, oh, this was just my friends in junior high, and I was a jock early on, so I was hanging out with the jocks. Football, football, basketball. So I played tight end. I played linebacker. I was also punter. I was backup quarterback. So I was pretty good, you know, for. For a white boy in, like, all white boy county.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But, yeah, so he lays out a line for me, and I did it. And then I'm like, what's it do? I had no idea what it did. He's all, you get your homework done today. And I got my homework done. I'm like, this is great. It. It makes me excited about everything. I hate because I. School never really worked for me, and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who feel the same way. It just. I was, I think, the best at best. I was a C student when I paid attention, but it never captured my attention. This is before drugs. It just never interested me.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is basically Adderall.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it's. I mean, people. They called it hyperactive back then. I was considered a hyperactive child. And it did. I mean, it did focus me for a little while. It. It did.

[Interviewer/Host]

But look, I'm on that stuff. I've used that stuff. I struggle with drinking too much. I go sober on and off. I struggle with it on and off. I totally feel all of this you just went. You went harder. But I totally get all of it. And that feeling of just clarity, of all the chaos and you're on the ADHD mind is very, very intriguing. Of just like, oh, my goodness, I could be productive.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And it's. It was the first. I'm like, maybe there's something wrong with me. Like, I've heard that before, but it was the first time. I'm like, oh, if this stuff works on me, that can't be good. I even knew that. You knew that then. Yeah. But the fact is, it works, and it makes. It makes me focused for the first time. The thing is, though, that's not exactly true, because I would focus, like, crazy on stuff I was interested in. Like, I would focus on comics and entertainment and all this stuff my dad and my mom said wasn't important, and they were wrong. You know, they said it wasn't important, and I wouldn't pay attention to anything I was supposed to. And it eventually got me out at, like, the things I did. Love sports. It got me out of those. And then I started hanging around with all the bad kids, because once I started doing the drugs, I'm like, well, I need to hang around the people who are doing the drugs.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, I have the drugs. And you're not really going to school anymore, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. I started ditching in freshman year, and I managed to squeak out sophomore year. But then that was it. I got kicked out of San Diegu High School.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hang on one second. Hey, Haley, get. Get Jen in here. Started using when the meth started. When you were what, about 13? Yeah, 14. How are you getting the money for that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

How am I getting the money for that? Well, at first it was. Friends had the money and they shared it, and it was kind of, like, normal. I had a paper route, but.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you get the paper route saying, I need drug money?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, no. That was. That was normal. That was normal. But right away, stealing, like, right away, I would get jobs. The jobs came later. Like, When I was 16, my first job was at Burger King.

[Interviewer/Host]

Come sit on my lap.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay. Oh, boy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Stage directions. Gary bounces around a couple of high schools. He's not. He's not doing. He's not doing well. Okay. He goes to, I guess, the high school for bad kids. Right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is. This is just. Just a quick scene. Have a seat. From Gary's memoir.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

Your stage direction. I'm the teacher. All right. And Gary's. Gary, we'll start with stage direction. Interior. Sunset High School. Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, God. Sunset.

[Interviewer/Host]

Interior. SUNSET HIGH SCHOOL CLASSROOM DAY the last bell rings. Students file out. Gary Buechler, 17, wiry, restless, stays seated at his desk. But not by choice. He watches the other kids leave with the dead eyed patience of someone who's been through this before. The teacher, mid-40s, waits behind his desk, jaw tight, until the room empties. A long beat of silence. Then he stands, walks slowly to Gary's desk and looks him dead in the eye. Beechler. I've had enough of you. Gary doesn't flinch. He looks right back.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Is that right?

[Interviewer/Host]

It absolutely is. I've had more than my feel of you. Way more.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You don't say.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, I do. I do say. You're wasting my time, Beechler. You're wasting everyone's time here. We both know you don't belong here at Sunset. You're never going to amount to anything, ever. And as far as I'm concerned, I want you out of here. Gary stands up slowly. No fear. No hesitation.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Really?

[Interviewer/Host]

Really.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I've got the most amazing coincidence to share with you. I. I want the same goddamn thing. So here's my idea. What if you go yourself?

[Interviewer/Host]

The teacher's face goes red. He starts screaming. A full blown unhinged adult meltdown.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Gary has never seen anything like it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Biekler, you cannot talk to a teacher like that. You useless piece of. They stare each other down. A long electric beat. Gary thinks for a couple of seconds. Then he makes his decision. He punches the teacher square in the mouth. Hard. The teacher goes down fast. He doesn't come back up. Gary looks at him on the floor, looks at the door. He walks out. Fade to black.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Fade to black. That was the end of my school career.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow. Punched him right in the mouth.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was a tense scene because I was waiting for him to punch you. I was ho. I wanted him to. I wanted him to punch you. And that was the end of your school career?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That was it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Press charges?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. Nope. No nothing. I mean, dodged another bullet and I was partying so hard. If they could, they could have pressed charges or told my parents. Wouldn't have mattered. Like I was pretty much gone at that point.

[Interviewer/Host]

What are they. What are your parents trying to do? Are they trying to intervene? Are they just.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

My parents have given up at that point.

[Interviewer/Host]

How? What do you mean giving up? They're still letting you stay?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, they. They booted me, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, they booted me. No, it was the greatest act of love my father ever showed me. My father, Arvin Beechler. He passed away in. In the early 2000s from cancer. And was a great man. And I didn't recognize that he was a great man. Yep. Yep. And greatest act of love he ever showed me was to give me the boot and I'm. And not look back. And I'm sure it killed him inside. At the time, I thought he was a complete. And couldn't care less if he lived or died. My mom would enable. I was able to manipulate my mom and enable at times when I needed to. But mostly I was. I was on my own on the streets.

[Interviewer/Host]

We'll keep it chronological, but just a sidebar. Your story about your dad. I have the same story with the cancer. And it sucks. It sucks to watch it. My dad was a superhero. To watch him get cancer. Just kick his ass.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did dad ever forgive you?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. Yes. We. We reconciled. And we actually got really close towards the last. Right when I got out of. We won't get too far ahead. But after prison, we were the best of friends. Absolute the best of friends.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was so happy to hear that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because I couldn't believe they stuck with you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I couldn't either.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right, so you're. You punch the teacher in the mouth, no charges. What happens next? What are you, 16?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

16. And it's just pure chaos. Staying. Mostly staying at my friend's house. I mean, all the names were changed to protect the innocent and guilty.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. So this is Bobby.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. And we stayed at the. It was called the Crystal Pal. Us people from Encinitas will know it. So you'll know who I'm talking about. At the time, in the 80s and it was just a party house. It was a. It was not unlike the crass house in the uk, if you're familiar with the story, the craft house. Except there's no creative. Well, there was some creativity going on, but it was mostly just drugs. His dad was a bartender and would be gone all day. And when he came back, he was just checked out and didn't care. So drunk. Drunk. Completely drunk. Complete alcohol.

[Interviewer/Host]

So this is perfect.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, perfect.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Perfect, right? We had run. We had girls over all the time. And we were not like the coolest kids in school.

[Interviewer/Host]

You weren't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But we became that because we threw the parties. And it was. For a while, it was like lots of fun. And that was my, like, found family for a little while. Of course, it all went to pretty quick. You.

[Interviewer/Host]

You seem to know pretty early on that you are making bad decisions that you're gonna have to pay for one day. How early, how young did you realize this is bad? As I'm doing it anyway, but this is not gonna end well.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, I. I never thought I'd live to 30, so I'm like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna ride this out now. I was not ever, like, suicidal, but I'm like, you know, this. But I never really gave it a ton of thought about the con. I knew the consequences were there, but I'm like, that's tomorrow.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's tomorrow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's tomorrow I'm gonna get.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because when you know, the worst one day at a time ever.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It is. That's why they teach you one day at a time, because that's pretty much how the addict goes about it, is just today I need to. I either have my drugs when I. If I wake up in the morning, if I'm not up all night, or I gotta find my drugs. And it's. It's. It's like feeding. It's like a shark feeding you. You have to have that. And then everything else can happen in jobs and fringe relationships, friends, girlfriends. None of that matters because the drugs are your God, and that's where the disease portion comes in. I think a lot of people fight back on this. And. And I get it. I get it. It's not a disease in the sense of, you know, like Parkinson's or. Or cancer. It's. It's a disease way worse. It's a disease that requires a conscious decision. So I think if anybody ever used the disease part as an excuse to, you know, to relieve them of any responsibility, that's. That's not. That's not what it means. It just means that our brain chemistry is different and not necessarily good. So we have an addictive personality to where, you know, there's just some people who can drink half a beer and leave it on the counter. I was never that person. And I don't think any addict is.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I drink till it's. Till it's towards. Dark black gone.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. But I was like that with my. My Halloween candy. Like, I couldn't. I ate it all one night.

[Interviewer/Host]

You were instructed not to do that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

So Crystal Palace, 16, 17. I guess we can fast forward to Bobby's in the backseat weighing out baggies because you're dealing a little bit, right? Yeah, Mostly using, but dealing a little bit to make some cash.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, I was dealing to pretty much my friends or a couple of older people, but I knew everybody. I was never dealing to strangers or it was usually just my fellow teenagers.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just part of the party.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. I was terrible at It.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was awful. So Bobby's in the back. You're driving your. Is you. I think you. This is your Oldsmobile?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. 67 Oldsmobile. It was sweet. 22,000 miles on it. It was a sweet car. Got it from a little old lady who was a neighbor of my grandma.

[Interviewer/Host]

Always the little old lady. Where the good cars come from.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Didn't end well for the Olds either. So you're driving the Olds. Bobby's in the back weighing out baggies. Whoop, whoop, here we go. And you didn't get into it too much but you knew this lady cop?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did you know her?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She had busted us on enough times for like curfew and just little minor stuff, but little scraps here and there. But we used to hang out at a PIM Pinball. Plus it was a arcade. It was in a. There was not much to do in Southern California in the 80s. In San Diego it is suburbia. So if there is an arcade, that's where every kid's going to go. And that's what we did.

[Interviewer/Host]

Same.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So they started enforcing a curfew. So that's how we, we, we knew each other. And she really hated me, but I had.

[Interviewer/Host]

She hated you because of your attitude?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, my attitude was shit. Like she had a good reason to. It's not like she didn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because this anti authority thing goes through all this, right? She's. And she's the man. So she knocks on the windows. Ah. Hey, Gary.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you were.

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talk Space wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to Talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] that's Talkspace.com promo code SPACE80.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hi, officer. Hello.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And well, there's the Batman Handcuffs. Right, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's right. Is that why you got pulled over?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I got pulled over for Batman handcuffs hanging off my rear view mirror as an instruction obstruction. She saw me and found an excuse, and. Yeah. So we got busted and.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hang on. She tossed the car. Yeah, tossed it, you said she looked. She found that. It's. Found the meth. And it was like she hit the lottery.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was the greatest day of her life, Abs.

[Interviewer/Host]

Absolutely. Been waiting for this all summer. Long scale.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Scale.

[Interviewer/Host]

Intense. Distribute.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep, A scale. I told him to keep it home, but he didn't. And that was the first time I really went to jail. No, that. That's it. Yeah, that was. I went for a, you know, a couple weeks.

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

Couple.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Three weeks.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hold on a second. You go in, you get booked. I come from a cop family. I have this. Yeah, you get booked, you get separated. And. And they want to know the story when they're. When they're writing you up.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Uhhuh.

[Interviewer/Host]

Bobby fingered you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah, he did.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you were just driving.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I. That's. I told the truth. I was just driving. But nobody's gonna believe that. It wasn't mine. But it really wasn't. But he's all, no, it was his, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. You didn't snitch.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did. Bobby did.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this. And you go to jail.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And this is the first time. So we're in San Diego County Jail, and it's. It's down near Union street downtown. You see street?

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you nervous? You frightened?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, totally. Totally. Like, this is like, what the hell is going on? And then we're, you know, do you show it or.

[Interviewer/Host]

You try to be tough.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I tried to be tough. Don't know how much I pulled it off. Luckily, the chaos of the place probably kind of hid that because it was just a big dorm. Right. And it was a big receiving dorm.

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't know at this point that this is nothing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, no clue.

[Interviewer/Host]

Nothing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No clue got. Got out of that one.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did mom and dad handle that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not very well. But my dad got a lawyer and said, this is the one time I'll help you.

[Interviewer/Host]

If I'm. If I remember correctly, you technically got the lawyer, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Well, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you say? Through the glass?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, the. The lawyer.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, I. Do you know what I had to give up to get this lawyer, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

I do. They don't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay. I had to give up an Oldsmobile.

[Interviewer/Host]

The Oldsmobile. The 67 Old. Because your dad said, I'm gonna get you this lawyer, but you're gonna pay for it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you said, yes, sir.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, sir. Of course. Of course. Freedom for freedom. I didn't even think twice about it. I mean, it hurts now because I'm like, maybe I could have stayed in an extra week, but I had to give up that. And like, the engine was, it was spotless, dude. Like, the painting on the, you know, I'm have to go off memory, but it said spitfire engine on. It was painted in red, and it was all original and was all still.

[Interviewer/Host]

There was a 350.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, yeah, 350. So your dad must have been so proud. Is his baby boy found his way, all problems are solved.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, dad was not happy about any of this. And they, you know, you got to get clean. They did all that stuff. And I just kept partying. I just, you know, once, once, Once

[Interviewer/Host]

I was out and still. Booze and meth, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Booze, booze and meth. It became more meth. I was way more into speed because, like, I don't know, I, I, I smoke pot. I, I, I drank. But anything that kind of makes you feel tired, I was never really into. What's funny is, like, well, it's not funny.

[Interviewer/Host]

You and I would have got along so well. I would have been a great customer.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. When. When I can find, like, alternatives. I never, like, in the early days, maybe did coke a couple of times. That, that's later. But we found like, Dexa Dream and the diet pills and stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, oh, yeah, I'm familiar.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah. Love that stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

Me too. So now you start breaking into houses, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah, Pretty regularly. Cars and houses.

[Interviewer/Host]

Cars and houses. And there was one that was so stupid. So stupid. It was so heavy. Can you, can you tell that story?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, is this okay? Well, you know, a lot of them are still the one with the, the pennies. Okay, so this is, this is so retarded. Okay. This is, this shows you the insanity of drugs. I can't remember who I was with. Now we. Some guy looked like he was in the Allman Brothers, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

I figured you guys all look like that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And I'm. Half the people I'm hanging with at this point, I don't even know. So I get this great idea that we need money. I had none, but I know for a fact that my neighbor has this. The water bottles, when they were glass, I think some of them still are. Had one filled full of pennies. And I'm like, well, there's got to be a hundred bucks in there. A couple hundred bucks, maybe. You know, didn't think very much about, like, how heavy it would be.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right, right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I knew how to get in their house, and I'm a genius. I cut a hole in the chain link fence.

[Interviewer/Host]

To thinking you're just providing a trail of evidence.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, providing a trail. I might as well have just, like, left breadcrumbs out and said, this is Gary.

[Interviewer/Host]

I wish I could see your face when you go to grab the penny and you go, yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I'm like, oh, this is really heavy. And I wasn't, like, in the best shape of the world. So, yeah, I get away with it for a little while, but then eventually I get caught. Yeah. But I got. I went and lost a year of my life.

[Interviewer/Host]

You did a year for the pennies.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

For the pennies. A water bottle full of pennies.

[Interviewer/Host]

Still county.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Still county at this point. So we. Yeah, you. I went to.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is this before the Porsche incident?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, God. Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So. So it was. Yeah, I. I did county jail, and this is the fire camp and all that, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you were. You're like, almost a volunteer fireman while you were in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep, yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Serving the community, getting exercise outside, and you still screwed it up.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Absolutely screwed up. Almost immediately. I was in the best shape of my life. I got hurt, so I was able to manipulate that. That you got injury.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is this. How did you get hurt?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I broke my tailbone.

[Interviewer/Host]

First time?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. I broke my tailbone.

[Interviewer/Host]

How?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Fuck it around. I was walking down a mountain and I was, like, pretending I was skiing.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I slipped and busted my tailbone. But I was able to, like, manipulate that into getting into a halfway house. Right. So, you know, the last little bit of my sentence wasn't too bad. Right. I got to, you know, go out once in a while.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you get out, we'll fast forward a little bit. You go back to using, dealing, all that. And I forget how the chapter started, but it may. The chapter started something like, you thought it would be a good idea to get a gun, and I've got an idea how to get one. Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I went, oh, no, I never had a gun. And I was like, this. This is how stupid it is. So I didn't need to do anything.

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't have for your life?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. I. I had a bunch of money. Yep. I had a bunch of drugs.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

All I had to do was get high and have fun. I'm like, you know, I know a good way to Screw this up. Sure, I need a gun. So I'm gonna go to an ex girlfriend's house to her dad's got a gun collection. I'm gonna break in while they're there. Some bored. You know, whatever was behind that, it wasn't. It wasn't like suicide or. It was like, I'm gonna go off myself. No, it was just like, I want a gun.

[Interviewer/Host]

Never rob a gun guy's house.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, go on. That's really.

[Interviewer/Host]

Go on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's really dumb. So I get in.

[Interviewer/Host]

You get into the garage, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I get in through the garage on the side door and go into the house, and there's a little dog. So little dogs are the absolute best security. Big dogs, you can feed them or pet them. And like, some of them, not all, but little dogs will just bark and bark and bark and bark. This. This little dog was barking like crazy. So I'm like, okay, I gotta. I gotta pull the eject on this one. I gotta get out of here.

[Interviewer/Host]

But hold on just a quick second. A little bit of a real Gary shows through here. Because in your book, you say you thought for a second about killing the dog.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, I could. I could have just, like, strangled the dog. And at that point, it wouldn't have mattered because you could. I could probably strangle it and you would have stopped barking. There's no way I'm gonna kill a dog. There's just no way in hell I was gonna kill a dog. So. So it's like, okay, time to go.

[Interviewer/Host]

And

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

went through the garage door. And this is where, like, you start thinking about higher power and fate. The door I just used to get on the side door for the garage. The door handle falls off. Falls off.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's so cinematic. This. This story. Go on. So you're stuck in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I hide under a Porsche. Just not a lot of room to hide under.

[Interviewer/Host]

No.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And her dad has got a gun in my. You know, pulls me out.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you. But you see the feet, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I see the feet.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is like in a movie.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And that. Well, he can see me too, so

[Interviewer/Host]

of course he knows what's going on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I get out, I see the feet. I'm like. I'm just waiting to get. I'm like, oh, I guess I'm not getting out of this one. Right? And then I've got a gun in my face.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did he say, dean, recognize you? No.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hey, Gary, now there's a gun on your face.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Now there's a gun on my face. And he's mad as hell and his hand is shaking, and you can see the bullets in the chamber. And I'm like, oh. And I got my life saved by a cop. You know, a cop. They called the cops. And I didn't get shot in the face. And I'm sure you. You know, the cop, like, you know, he's on the Navy pistol team. Like, I could have shot you from 50 yards right between the eyes.

[Interviewer/Host]

He probably wanted to.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Probably wanted to. And I ended up writing him a letter, like, later on.

[Interviewer/Host]

So. During your recovery?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, during my recovery.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was like a make amends type of thing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Never heard back, but I'm sure he got it.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's. That's important.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. But that was when I went in for a long. Because I had the prior.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now you've got priors. And now I guess it's. It's a hot prowl. So B E. That's a hot.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's a first degree burglary.

[Interviewer/Host]

First degree burglary. Yeah. So I guess you go to county for booking, but you are not going to stay in County.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. This was. I go into county until we, you know, sentencing and everything, and then it's off to prison. You get a little bit of time served from your time in County. Off to prison.

[Interviewer/Host]

Before you go to prison, you're in county and just talk a little bit about that, because I remember there was a. There was a dude in there who gave you advice that was kind of interesting because there's also. There's the fear of prison. Then you're going to all these places, but there's also a weird brotherhood and camaraderie and kind of looking out for each other sometimes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this guy gave you advice? It was. I thought was very strange, but it worked out.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, Maybe I was. I mean, I was 22 at the time, so I looked like a pup. Yeah. And, yeah, somebody took sympathy on me and just like, hey, you're going to go to prison. Here's. Here's some rules. You know, they're pretty basic rules. And I'll paraphrase what's in the book. I'll try to keep it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, take your time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Politically correct, but it was, well, you know, don't mess with gambling. Mm. Don't mess with the gays. That's not the word he used.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now, hold on a second. I think that advice is before you go in to Folsom. I'm talking about the guy who said, you're gonna get a plea deal. Take it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay, okay. Sorry, Sorry. So, yes, I'm gonna get a plea deal. Absolutely. Take it. Don't fight it. Because if you don't, you will end up doing a lot more time.

[Interviewer/Host]

So he says, go in there, be cool.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you'll get out.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. Just take. Take your time. There's no way fighting this. You're. You're going to prison, like. And, you know, I knew that and we were looking at it. I got the mid sentence, so I got everything he said I was gonna get.

[Interviewer/Host]

What'd you get?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I got. I got four years, but you do, too.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did you feel when you turned around at the courthouse and saw mom and dad sitting there?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Horrible. It was the worst feeling in my life. Looking at your parents in the face after you get sentenced to four years in prison and they adopted you, they raised you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did your father look at you?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it was. It was pretty shameful. They look crushed. They look crushed.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Because they stood by you through all this.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But it was. Yeah, that was tough, man. That was not. Not good. And then getting in that bus and

[Interviewer/Host]

you're on the bus for hours and

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

hours, hours and like, shackled up.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's just like what you think is in the movie is how this is just as bad as you think it is. It's how this is. And when did you find out you were going to. Going to Old Folsom? You're going to the. You're going to the Johnny Cash?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I got ahead of that. Sorry.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was because you're not supposed to go there, I don't think.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, no. They were doing something they shouldn't have been doing. But it's due to overcrowding, so I stayed. Donovan was a receiving facility in San Diego. I got stuck there for four months. You usually stay there for like a month and they farm you out. I was a level 2, so not considered. Even though first degree burglary is considered a violent crime. I was not considered violent in the sense of armed robber or murder or rape or any of the horrible ones. Those are level three, level four. So I find out I'm going to Folsom and there's two Folsoms. There's New Folsom. At the time, it still is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that first facilities at El Cajon Donovan?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So it's. It's east of Elko. It's like an otay mesa.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, but El Cajon was a facility you were in, Right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So El Cajon was a county jail. Oh, okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

El Cajon was. That's the one where There was the breakout.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh yeah, you were there for the breakout.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Quick little side story here. So there's a. The biggest building in El Cajon, California, which is the box. Which is. Which. I mean that's what you know. And it's. And it's in eastern part of San Diego. So it's not. Well, probably all the houses are, are million dollar houses there now. But at the time wasn't looked at as the nicest place in the world. So the tossed building was the jail. And apparently the contractor like cut a little, cut some corners and didn't reinforce the walls with whatever they're supposed to reinforce with concrete or steel or whatever. So it was just stucco and framing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh no.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And somebody figured it out.

[Interviewer/Host]

Someone just knocked on it and said, that feels pretty hollow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, pretty hollow. So let's, let's break off the bottom of our bunk and just punch a hole in it and you can look it up. It was in the 80s, the big breakout that got it closed. And I was there.

[Interviewer/Host]

You saw. And you saw them escaping, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think, hey, I'm going to get in on that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I thought about it for a second and I'm like, well, for one as a long way down. Yeah. And I'm like, no, I'm just going to, going to do my thing. That was, that was the first time around. So I'm glad I did that. You know, I'm glad I.

[Interviewer/Host]

Listen, they caught everybody.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They caught everybody. And one of the guys busted his leg because they did the whole tying the sheets together crap.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, they did because it was up there.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You know, it was like. I can't remember the exact amount of stories, but it was at least five. Right. And they caught everybody and then they shut down the jail. The problem was they locked us down after that for, for two weeks and they weren't feeding us all the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what does lockdown really mean?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Locked? Lockdown is you are in your cell. You don't get out without.

[Interviewer/Host]

With, with one cellie.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, with like six.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you're there with six guys for weeks being fed through the bars, through the bar.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

One toilet, supervised shower. Like once we. I think we got two. Right. Supervised shower.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, it's just rank.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was rank. So we, I was like, I remember eating ketchup packets because that's all I had to eat. And we had Uno.

[Interviewer/Host]

You just played Uno?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Just played Uno and had one book. I think one book between it. Us. It was like. It was terrible. It was terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

At least it wasn't magic. You know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Right. It could always be worse, but. Yeah. So the PR on the prison side. Yeah. Go to Folsom, and we find out that they're doing this transition thing. So they're turning old Folsom into a level two, and they're removing all the level four guys, and they're putting them up to Pelican Bay.

[Interviewer/Host]

And level four guys are the hardcore.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They're murderers, rapists, and they're gonna throw

[Interviewer/Host]

you pups in with them.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Worst of the worst. And they did. And they did. Yeah. So we had level twos in with level fours, which is. You're just not supposed to do that because the lot. The last thing a guy with a life sentence wants to hear is the. The stories from a guy who's gonna get out in a couple years. That's a recipe for disaster.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you're walking in shackles, chains. And what, you. You've got your long hair.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I guess. Is that your first prison taunt?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is just like, he's man.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And Donovan never really got any shit. I think everybody in the receiving part is just kind of like pins and needles, waiting to figure out sure to go.

[Interviewer/Host]

So.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it's way more supervised. It's like, max, max, max there. Because. Because you are mixing in all the levels. Because. But it's. It's. You know, you spend most of your time in your cell. It's not a ton of yard time. And I never spent much time in the yard. But, yeah. When I walk into Folsom, got my beautiful long blonde hair and shows you how much I've aged. And. Yeah. Guy goes, hey, Goldilocks, you want my sack lunch? I'm like, I need to cut my hair. You know? And it was right when I walked, so I knew it was to me, by the way. Like, I'm like, of course they were. They had us in a line, and then we're feeding them in, and, like, there's this big. Just wall of cells.

[Interviewer/Host]

How you're terrified. And now you go up to 11.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. 12. Because beyond terrified. And it, like.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't know exactly. Really.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Stop. But it doesn't say, oh, it's balls. It's your balls.

[Interviewer/Host]

No. Okay, so now you're going through the rules that you're. That someone told you here you're go. You go gladiator school, as you called it. Oh, God. Which it was. So now you're going through the rules. Right. And you got to get rid of the hair.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Got to get rid of the hair.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what Are some of the rules you're thinking as you're, as you're.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So the rules I was told I was referring to earlier are do not gamble, do not mess with gays. No problem. I no interest in, in those.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just be polite and leave them alone.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Do not do drugs, do not mess with any drugs. And at that point in my life, I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to mess with any drugs. I don't, you know, I, I had already decided, like, if I survive this, I'm done. I cannot do this. And then do not snitch, no matter what. And if you're gonna fight, this podcast

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a $0 copay. Men's Health Awareness month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] that's talkspace.com promo code space80.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Fight. You have to fight. You can't back down from a fight.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right? Don't, don't start trouble.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Take it, but don't take it. Yep. But the most important one of them all is don't snitch or you will die.

[Interviewer/Host]

Bobby.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I don't mean to drag it out, but it's fascinating.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

So sack lunch, how do you, how do you get it? You have to get your hair cut in like 30 yard. You have 30 yards to solve this problem immediately.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was for a pack of smokes. It was a terrible haircut, but it did the job.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's like, didn't a guard help you?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Help you grab scissors or something?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's. I mean, they, there is some humanity in there, right? Like they See this little pup, and it's like, this guy's gonna get shredded in here. So that's. That's my best guess. But I got. I got my haircut. I got help. Guards aren't always helpful, though. Okay. Just keep that in mind. They're. They're humans, so there's some good ones and there's some pieces of crap in there. And I spend the next. I'm behind the wall for a good year. Right. So I'm.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, one of the rules was don't go to the yard, don't go to the gym.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah. Which I did not do.

[Interviewer/Host]

But there were some times that you had to get away from your first cellmate because he. I mean, when you land in the room with him, how does that go down?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, it's bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's bad with Kyle.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah, he's. He's double murderer. He's a piece of crap.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you look like?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He was just a. Like a. Kind of a flabby but big white dude. It's brown hair, a little grayish. But he was not old. He was not that old.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm just trying to feel how imposing he is for.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He's very bigger than me. He's bigger than me for sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

So how's that first meeting go?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Scared to death. You know, and he's. He just gives me the rules and pretty much tells me, you know, I don't want to hear from you. You know, he has his tv, and. And I'm like, well, maybe I could just wait this one out. But it just. It didn't work out well.

[Interviewer/Host]

He. He didn't. Like. He's a level four of this guy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He's a level four, and he doesn't

[Interviewer/Host]

want to hear about you getting out in two.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope. Nope. So I was really good at being quiet when I needed to be. What were you doing to kill time to kill?

[Interviewer/Host]

Mostly reading books because there was another rule about stay insane, wasn't there?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

What was that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Find a routine.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. Fine. Okay. Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Stick to it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So the thing about the. The best advice I heard is. And like, people do this in prison all the time. So I didn't. Invented this is just passed down, is find a routine. You get up at the same time. You kind of do the same things every day. And what it does is it helps you feel accomplished because we as humans need to feel some accomplishment. So I. I found a little routine that worked in behind the Wall, and then when I. When I went on. And it really helps the time go Faster. It keeps you busy so you're not sitting there. You need to have that routine so you're not sitting there just tripping all the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

You talk about how Kyle was like mentally torturing you this whole time. What was. What was he doing? Because he wasn't physically abusing you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, he was just always.

[Interviewer/Host]

What was he. Cuz you write about how it was just constant. He was just always just messing with you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Always messing with my head.

[Interviewer/Host]

Always.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He would. He would always question like everything I was doing, like, what are you reading? What's your problem? He would never let me have peace. Right. Because I would try to mind my own business and stay there. And he'd always try to start some weird conversation that would go to a weird place and ask me weird questions and then bring up like his crimes, you know, and what he did.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you knew he was just trying to torture.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. Trying to. With me all the time. And. And it. Then he'd be nice a little while and then it would flip, you know. But we. You bring up the pruno, right? We can talk about when.

[Interviewer/Host]

Go ahead.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't want to get too far ahead, but.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I know when we're going to take our break.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh yeah. So gone. The. He's. He was making some pruno and hiding it and he was gone. And the guard is. The guards are coming in to do. To do an inspection and I'm. I'm there because I don't go out very much.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I dumped it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You dumped his pruno?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you know that decision? You. Did you. How long you know what you're doing? You know you're gonna have to deal with this. Yeah, but you figure what, you're saving him or are you like, I'm gonna. This is gonna go sideways.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is this at my decision making at the time was not really even to cover. It was cover both of our asses. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

But it was because you were going,

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

yeah, because I'm there, so I'm gonna get caught with it. And he's the cellmate, so he's gonna get busted too. And there's all this stuff going through my head where. Oh, you know, you think about the snitching thing. Right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's gonna make me either way look like a snitch. So I'm like.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're watching them toss cells getting closer as you're doing this.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I'm like, I'm gonna dump this stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Kyle, by the way, is out the yard lifting weights. Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Lifting weights. Lifting weights. So I got rid of it and it's. It's gone by the time the guards there. I saved his ass. My. Well, his ass. Yeah, his ass wasn't exactly grateful about that at all. And wanted me to repay whatever it was owed, whatever that value of that pruno was, and. And did not let me forget it so ever.

[Interviewer/Host]

He wanted you to put money in his account, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Money on his books.

[Interviewer/Host]

Money on his books. 20 bucks for the pruno. I want it. You did it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And thought it was good. And I don't know how soon after that, but he said, I need 20 bucks.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it. It just became the, you know, I need 20 more. And then once you capitulate a little bit, you know, that's just the way it is. And that's. That's. This is part of like, don't be a.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Right. This is part of don't be a. And I. I should have said you, you know, at that point and probably fought at that point.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you didn't give him 20 more, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. And. And it got worse.

[Interviewer/Host]

It gets worse. And you get back to the cell and he's going through your stuff.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's he doing?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He's going through Mom's, my letters. He's going through my letters.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this whole time parents are supporting you. They're putting money on your books. You're covered.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

You have support from the family. This guy's got nothing. He hates you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He hates everything about me. He hates the books I read. I mean like he's giving. He gave me shit for books I read.

[Interviewer/Host]

He wanted you to fight.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, he's been trying to taunt me to fight the whole time. And well, he finally got what he wanted. So he. He's going through my letters. My parents and I, by the way, are contacting and they're, you know, they're sending me like little care packages and making sure I'm okay. They're worried to death because they know I'm in this fulsome prison. So they're trying to work outside with a couple of other people trying to figure out what the going on. Right. To no avail, by the way.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And yeah, he's like, I like your mom's handwriting. I like your mom's handwriting. Like, I want to write your mom. And I just lost my. Absolutely lost my right.

[Interviewer/Host]

He. He demands you to tell your mom to start writing him as well. And now you feel it. You feel all men feel this. Things go quiet. You hear the boom boom in your ears and you're not gonna take it anymore?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, to hell with that. Whatever happens after this, like, this is. And, and it had been building up, like you said, like, just with the constant, like, poking, and some of it would just, you know, in isolation, it wouldn't be that bad. But when you're living, think of the worst roommate you've ever had. But he's also a murderer.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's what it is. A guy who, like, steals your food or, you know, like art. I don't want to get too crass in there. Just when you're in a cell with somebody and they're going to the bat. It's just the worst. It's the worst. And so you.

[Interviewer/Host]

The blood's in your ears and everything's going. And it's going to go down. So we're going to take a quick break.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

We'll find out how you handle it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're right back. It's. It's the standoff now.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

Not going to take any more. He's going. Mama's not going to write him a letter, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, over my dead body. So. And that's where, Where I was at. Had a little walk, man.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. Because we were. You were allowed, like, believe it or not, even a Max prison. You can have a tv, you can have a Walkman, you know, you were

[Interviewer/Host]

getting comics and stuff.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, you can get comics and books and, and cigarettes and stuff. They don't allow people to smoke in prison anymore. I don't know. That sounds terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't know why would they would do that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't know. Smoke for the safety of the guards.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, God.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So, yeah, I, I go hysterically off on that. So it's not like some heroic moment, you know. Avengers assemble, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

It wasn't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, it was this, this was

[Interviewer/Host]

fight or flight panic.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Fight or flight panic. Spazzy fighting. Think Ralphie and A Christmas Story, you know, like, toe to toe.

[Interviewer/Host]

Could you take this guy?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I mean, I did so well, how did you.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, I had.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, I, I, I had a Walkman in my hand and I bashed his face in.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's a very Gen X with a Sony product. Very Gen X.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, it was what was in my hand at the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

You bashed his face in.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I bashed his face in and bashed it in pretty good. And he go down? Yeah, he went down. Down and out, down and out. Blood everywhere. And I'm like, I'm going to the hole.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was just gonna ask. The adrenaline comes down and you know, you're going to the hole.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm screwed. I'm going to the hole. I'm gonna get more time put on my.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just what he wanted.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. And that didn't happen, which is insane. Right. So I would. I did a little time, but as far as getting extra time added to my sentence. Doesn't happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why not?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Doesn't happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why not? The whole. Where'd you go?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's a mist. It's a. Well, it's a mystery. Why. Because my biggest concern at the time was it's. Am I they going to think I snitched? That was my biggest concern. So my guess is a, the guards knew what was going on or another. And I never knew the answer to this at all. But it just kind of got a new cellmate, you know? Got a new cellmate. Little crazy still. But not as.

[Interviewer/Host]

But not violent.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not messing with you. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you ever run into that guy again?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, never did.

[Interviewer/Host]

It probably was. Someone was like, we got to get these tier Twos out of here, man.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. And he was supposed to go to Pelican Bay anyway. Like, he was like, all the level fours were supposed to go to. To Pelican Bay, Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're still kind of going through that transition.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Y.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you get placed with. With a new cellmate, and he's tier two, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. So are you able to relax?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Relax a little bit. And then, you know, I took a printing class in there, and I never really went to the yard or did anything after that. And then it was finally over when I went to the minimum security part of.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, hang on a second. He. This guy was a big part of you recovery.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm getting way ahead of myself.

[Interviewer/Host]

So before I go, who was he? He's violent. What was he. What was he like?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He was actually a really, like a nice guy. He was a nice guy. There are nice guys in there. Believe there are.

[Interviewer/Host]

I believe it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. I mean, just made a bunch of mistakes in his life, like I did.

[Interviewer/Host]

They only put the ones that get caught in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And me needing to get out of the other of the cell, like. And I didn't really want to go to church. I tried it a couple times. It really didn't do it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Where's church come from? Why were you even thinking about church?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, I. I needed to get out of the cell, for one, but I also needed to not come back here, like, well, and. And I was.

[Interviewer/Host]

Didn't he tell you?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Here are. Here are some things you can do to make this go a Little easier for yourself. Two options, right? Church and meetings.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what happens?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Church doesn't work for me.

[Interviewer/Host]

And he was a church religious guy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah, he was a religious, religious guy. And I started going to the meetings and it wasn't like, this is a. Yeah, this is aa. They did do NA ones in there. But I just gravitated to the aa and the reason, and it's the same reason I gravitated to it outside is there's just more time. In aa, you could still. The principles are still the same. People are talking about alcohol. I could just. I could just apply it to drugs, and it's fine. So it starts kicking in. I go to these meetings and it

[Interviewer/Host]

kicks in for the first time. Right. Because you've been through crash, you've been through meetings. It didn't take. You. It didn't take. Now it finally starts to take. Because you didn't go to those meetings initially for any other reason than to just make it easier inside. Right. Or you said, I'm going to get clean now, I'm going to share.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was just self preservation. Self preservation. I wish it was something bigger than that. But it started. That's when it started kicking in. Like, oh, and you know, when you're in the meeting and you're hearing people tell the stories and like, half the people in those meetings were there just to get out of their cell. But the guy leading the meeting, you know, from H and I, hospitals and institutions from aa, they're there because they're serious. Right. And especially to volunteer. It takes a special kind of person to volunteer for H and I to want to go inside a prison.

[Interviewer/Host]

Takes a very good person to do that. Better than I am.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

When did it click? What was the. What was the conversation? What was going around the circle when it suddenly switched?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It started clicking. It was just through time, but just hearing over and over again that, like, life can get better. Like, it's not necessarily over, you know, I don't know if I fully believed it at the time, but it started clicking really just over time, and. And it stayed with me. I'm not going to say I was like, ready to be a sober warrior at that point, but I had decided, like I told you earlier on, like, I do not want to come back here. This is horrifying. So the best way to describe prison is. It is really, it is boredom occasionally interrupted by moments of terror, just complete terror. But there's always an underlying, like you sleeping with one eye open. You got to worry about absolutely everything. If somebody Gives you a dirty look in there. It means something. And that's probably gonna, you know, because you are trapped with these people. And that will probably come to a head at some point. And that's always rolling around in the back of your head.

[Interviewer/Host]

But once again, some people looking out for you always have a routine so you don't go crazy. And then this new cellmate says, you need a plan.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You need a plan.

[Interviewer/Host]

What does he mean by that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You need a plan for life. Like you can't just get out and think everything's going to be okay. And this is something like a father would tell a kid, right? You need to have a plan.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what's your, what's your plan?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And my plan was really simple. To get sober, to get a job and then implement. I don't think I've verbally said this, but the, the, or implement the routine in, in life. So that routine I was learning in prison, I actually applied it afterwards. You did? It was really helpful. It was really helpful.

[Interviewer/Host]

What kind of routine was it? It was just the day to day that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So the day this carried on from, from when I went on to, to, to the minimum security.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right, you got moved finally?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it moved finally. And in minimum security I would, I was doing a lot of working out. I was either playing racquetball because we had rack handball, we had this big track you can walk or run laps on. And it. And I also had a job. I had this crazy job that taught me how to work. And it like this is where the rehabilitation of prison actually worked on one person. So I had this, this gig at procurement in the procurement office.

[Interviewer/Host]

What does that mean?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Basically we did all the purchasing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

For the prison, particularly in my area was just writing up all the drug orders. Which is funny, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

You're dealing drugs again.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I'm writing up all the drug orders because the new Folsom wing had a psychiatric wing. Sure. So I was doing all the drug orders for them. And I worked for a lady. I should say her real name.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, no, no, it's fun.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She was, she always wore purple. She always wore frickin purple. And I was her little boy toy by the way. Like she, she's like, oops, I dropped something, you know. Okay, yeah, stuff like that. I used to be young and pretty, but yeah, it was, it was get up, get up 5:30 in the morning, get my breakfast, either walk a lap before I go to work or walk two laps before I go to work. Go to work, come back, go play some racquetball or handball with the guys and it was just do that every day.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you behaving at your job and all that? You were?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Getting along with everybody.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Getting along with everybody.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you counting down the days now?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Counting down the days. They're still long. I mean, you know, there's still like a year out.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is why you're so good at counting George Martin's days.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're counting days. That's what you do.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I do. That's what I do. I keep track, George. So yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what are the last few days like, isn't it?

[Podcast Sponsor/Host]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a $0 copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to Talkspace.com. match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] that's Talkspace.com promo code SPACE80.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, 60, 59, 50, I mean, is torture.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's torture, dude. Is absolute torture. And the anxiety of am I going to fuck up again?

[Interviewer/Host]

Right? Is it, am I really getting out?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Is something, is there?

[Interviewer/Host]

What's going to happen?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

What's going to happen? You know, that, that and that really starts messing with you towards the end.

[Interviewer/Host]

I bet it does.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Like, what if some charge is found, you know, because listen, I didn't get caught for everything I did.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course not.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Eight, seven, six. You still, Parents are still supporting you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Parents are still supporting me. I'm on my routine. I'm starting to like lose it a little bit towards the end though. I'm starting to go away and just anxiety, just pure anxiety.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did you cope?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not well. I, I, I didn't sleep very much, but I tried to work out more. So and by workout I mean just exercise do some sort of, like, you know. But it was obsessive, right? It got really obsessive. But it was like, you know, running laps or. Or playing racquetball or playing it by myself.

[Interviewer/Host]

So this is a very different facility than you're coming from. It had to feel like vacation.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Did. Like, we'd. Yeah, we. There was, like, a little garden where we grew chili peppers. We were. We'd sit out in tan. It's.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's. It's near Sacramento. It's right near Folsom Lake.

[Interviewer/Host]

You were supposed to be there the whole time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. I was not supposed to be behind the wall at all, ever. And. Or maybe for a couple weeks.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you run into other tier twos?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

At.

[Interviewer/Host]

At.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Like, what the hell? That was terrible. That sucked. But for the. For the level twos, I. I had a. Usually had more time than they did, so they were all getting out before me, which kind of sucked, but watching them. Hey, have fun, buddy. But. Yeah, like.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you weren't a dick about it. You already saw what. How that works.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, not at all.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just leave them alone.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But then we. Yeah, we. I mean, we'd. We'd have this thing called spreads where we make a bunch of food. We'd steal some food out of the kitchen, or the cook would just give us some food, and we make these big things of ramen and chop every piece of meat we could figure out. And it was just this gobbledygook of. Of stew with top ramen that we. That was our, like, party night. We watched football and. Yeah, it was kind of smoked cigarettes and, you know when you heard, like,

[Interviewer/Host]

bola Brown at King's Landing, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Singer stew.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. So the day finally comes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Day finally comes, and my parents pick me up, and they. So I go out the main gate of Folsom.

[Interviewer/Host]

There was a beat I liked in your book about the guard who. Who came to get you because he was the same guard, that badass guard who let you in.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

He was still there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Little smile in his eyes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You did it, kid.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. You made it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You made it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You made it. And it was. I wish I could bottle, like, the feeling I had that day because I wanted for nothing. No material thing had any value to me. It was. It was pure freedom. So that was the first day I understood what, like, liberty and freedom is. It's something I completely took for granted and never thought about as a kid.

[Interviewer/Host]

How soon did it kick in?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Like, the minute I walked out and just open sky, no one sky, no walls. My mom and dad smiling to see me. And, you know, you just. You don't have to sign very much paperwork. You just sign a couple things and get your stuff back. Got my. Got my clothes back that I went in on, and I'm like, wow, I actually lost weight in here, you know, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, you weren't doing well for a while in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, I was not. Not doing well. And I got out pretty much in shape, but. Yeah. So back to that feeling of gratitude, Just pure gratitude of like, I am free, my life isn't over. Because I. I was convinced for the longest time, even before I went into prison. We talked about it earlier that my life was just over.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure. Just.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's done. Like, we're gonna play it out. It's gonna be a sad, pathetic ending. And I'm like, wow, I have a chance to do this, and I don't want for a bunch. I don't have any lofty goals.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just one. Don't go back in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Don't go back in. And don't go back in. Yeah. So I had the best meal of my life, which was, you know, an omelette at Denny's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Denny's. I mean, you're home. It was America.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Greatest food, Greatest meal I've ever had. And. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what's the conversation like at that breakfast? Are we laughing?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

We're crying, we're laughing, we're talking about just what's ahead, you know? My dad was not, like, a real sentimental guy, so we were just like. Yeah, we talk about the Chargers and Padres and how crappy they were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And it's funny because it's right before they. They went for their first Super Bowl.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, that's right. Early 90s.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. But there was, like, Bobby Ross had come around, and they've been to the playoffs for the first time in a long time. So we had stuff to talk about, but it was really light. Right. And, you know, they were pretty. A matter of factly, like, you got to find a job. You can't, like, stay with us forever. I'm like, okay, fair.

[Interviewer/Host]

No talking back. No attitude.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope. Just I was being a good kid. Right. And with a. With a new lease on life and a new attitude towards life, and waking up every morning was freaking great. I, like, I could just. And I do things like just take a walk and ride my bike to the beach, you know, in between looking for a job. But, yeah, I didn't need any Money. Didn't need any of that stuff. I had a place to stay, but eventually I would, I would need that money.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you craving drugs?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Booze, anything?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. Went to, started going to meetings. Immediately you did? Yeah, immediately. There was no, none of that and wasn't seeking out my old friends. That, that's, that's usually what gets any addict in trouble, especially after they get out of a rehab or anything. It's what I got in trouble is like I immediately sought out my old friends, which means let's party. I did not, I didn't let anybody know I was back. Didn't know if anybody knew I was back or gone or anything. And just kind of did my own thing. Hung out with my parents and eventually contacted a couple of friends, but I knew who were outside of the, like an old childhood friend and he eventually gave me a job.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, before that you said don't run into old friends, but you did.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did.

[Interviewer/Host]

What happened?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was sad, but I, I,

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm also talking about that meeting.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

People from the neighborhood.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When that was kind of surprising to. When we ran into each other.

[Interviewer/Host]

What happened? Who was there?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm trying not to use. I had a couple of older one. Yeah. Cool seeing ball sack there.

[Interviewer/Host]

So these are all guys. You, these part. You partied with drugs.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was a shock, but I'm sure they were just as shocked. See me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you frightened? A little bit. Like, oh, no. Relapse. Here we go.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

At that meeting. Yeah. That's always, I mean, the fear is always in there. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But it was also, now that I look back on it, a little inspiring to see some of the old, of course, old people come through and, and make it and we, you know, there's, there's some I ended up staying friends with forever, you know, and to this day, some who didn't make it. But yeah, that, like seeing that, that was like, I guess the first test, I guess, you know, and one of

[Interviewer/Host]

those, he, one of those guys became your first sponsor.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you know about sponsorship at that time?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did. I just never like, really took it seriously. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Eventually learned how important it is and

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

then you learn how absolutely necessary it is.

[Interviewer/Host]

So he was clean a while. Tell me about that conversation.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was, I mean, he, he's knew what I've been through. Right. And then like, more than anybody else, I, I honestly don't know if it was the best, the best, best choice for sponsor, to be honest with you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Maybe not.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Maybe not. But it's, I just didn't want to go back. It was, it was really simple, you know, I was. I didn't want to die. I didn't want to die.

[Interviewer/Host]

So he asked you to make a commitment and you agreed to it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. Did you keep your word to my commitments of.

[Interviewer/Host]

To him? I mean, I know how it works. You're there for each other.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Pick up the phone, you show up, you do the work, you come back tomorrow, you call. Did you do all that stuff?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did all that stuff in the beginning and I did it when I relapsed too. The thing. And like, I don't want to get ahead with the relapse, but there's, there's a commitment you need to make that.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm just trying to stress what a big decision it is once you take on. Become a sponsor. It's. It's a big deal.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It is. Usually it's 90 meetings in 90 days and you have to write gratitude lists like, both sponsors made me do it. One was way more hardcore than the other. So you have to do a ton of homework. You have to meet. You have to basically do your own book study with you. So we sit down and we go over chapters of the book. And this is on top of going to meetings that are, that are book. Because there are book specific meetings where you just go through the chapters. Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And then you're now like working the steps and doing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Working the steps. And it's not just once. So my, my. I thought it was just once. You did the steps. Now you just recycle and keep going through and through until it really gets ingrained.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, step four is never over, is it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Never over.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's inventory.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. The personal inventory. And we're always making new mistakes. Right. And it's work that's never done.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a very important step, that self awareness.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you're working the program, things are going good, you get a job at the warehouse.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

At the warehouse.

[Interviewer/Host]

How's that? How's that first day feel?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Warehouse is what? Music videos. So that's a West coast. I'm from New York. I had never heard of it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay. Yeah, the warehouse is. Yeah, it's. It's a record store that's also a video store.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is perfect for you because you're a pop culture junkie going in, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. So.

[Interviewer/Host]

So are you like. This is. This is perfect.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's heaven. Yeah, it's absolute heaven. And I've always wanted. Well, I've worked at the warehouse before in the past.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, you did?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did. But for, like, I never worked very. Anywhere long, so I was a drug addict. So this was like. Well, now that I know how to have this thing called a work ethic. From prison. I learned that from prison. I go into getting up at five in the morning every day, going to work. It was. It was amazing working there. Pay was a great. Who cares? It was enough.

[Interviewer/Host]

Your parents had to be so proud.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

That you were going in every day.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think they were probably always waiting for.

[Interviewer/Host]

Always waiting.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Always waiting. And it. It didn't happen. Like, I went to work, took extra shifts, had tons of fun, met a bunch of friends there, had had some rough times, you know, like, there's still the adapting I had to get used to.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, there is that story.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the altercation.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. I just. Some old guy and I got into it, and we'll tease it out.

[Interviewer/Host]

He walks in, he's waving the thing around.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He's waving a video around.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I. He's given me a bunch of attitude, like, what it was over a return and it was late or something. It was some violation, whatever. And. And once he started getting disrespectful to me and he was angry at me. Right. I have the. The. The prison defense mechanism comes in, so I feel like I'm being disrespected. So this is like, you know, still early on. This took me years to get rid of this stuff because I was. I was. I wasn't. It wasn't like I was floating on cloud nine the whole time I was out. I was. There was. There's certain things that would, you know, I guess trigger is. Lack of a better word. Trigger. The defense mechanisms from prison. I definitely had. I had trouble sleeping for. If you want to call it ptsd. Sure. I mean, for a decade, I had trouble sleeping.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, it is ptsd. It's not. It is ptsd. That's a thing that ex cons have. You come out of war, you come out of prison, you have ptsd, and you did. And so you felt you're disrespected.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

What happened with the guy?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I. I shouted him down and I had to get. I almost. I. I got written up, and my friend had to. You know, the friend who gave me the job.

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't put hands on, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, no. Hands on. Okay. We were just yelling. We were yelling at each other pretty good.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, this is terrible customer service.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's horrible customer service because, like, it's retail. Customers come in and yell. You just go, yes, sir. I Will, it was really easy. All I had to do.

[Interviewer/Host]

Who cares? Just give him the tape.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Just give him what he wanted and walk away. But I took it as a personal. So I get written up and. You know.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I love the conversation you have with Don in the back room.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because he asked you what happened, but it wasn't a casual thing because he's like, no, seriously, what's going on?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like, what happened with the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

With the situation. It's like, what's going. It was like an actual caring.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because he's in the program and. What'd you say?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, I just. I just told him exactly that I felt disrespected. And it just. Everything just clicked, you know, my defense mechanism. I just lost my. You know, and it's just. And I. It was. It was understood. But it was also said that, like, you. This cannot go. Go on. Like, you gotta.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you get fired?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, I got written up.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I got written up, which was. I should have brought. I should have been fired.

[Interviewer/Host]

Ah, maybe. I don't know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Ah, he was gonna fire me. He wasn't gonna.

[Interviewer/Host]

No.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But, like, it. I felt terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

If you did it again, maybe.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And the thing is, like, later on, like, me and that old guy got along famously after.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course. Of course.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I, like, I just treated him nice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Prison rules are actual.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Of life, so. And then he. We actually got to the point where, like, he'd come over and we chitchat for 20, 30 minutes while he's at. So it's like. That's the cool part of the story, is we became, like, buds after that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Mutual respect.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And like, it was way down the line, so I'm like, you know what? I'm really sorry I yelled at you that day. I was having a bad day. He's like, don't worry.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He was a sweet, sweet old guy. So. Yeah, it was. But that's. That's where I also recognized, like, this might not be that easy. Like, it was like, you know, you. Once you get past your Cloud nine and your. Your. Your euphoria, you know, there's. There's the work that has to be done. And I was. I was super angry, like, and resentful.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you feeling the calling to go back to drinking or drugs?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not. Not at that time. But it. That eventually does come. But I think that's just being fresh, being out of prison. Right. And you just, you know, you got your guard up all the time. Of course, you don't need to have Your guard up. Plus, you know, prison rules aren't real life rules. So if somebody disrespects you, you don't, like, punch them in the face.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You know, it's simple stuff like that.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what happened next after warehouse?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

After warehouse. Well, okay, so I meet first wife.

[Interviewer/Host]

Meet the first wife.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Meet the first wife. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And she's.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So when you. When you meet somebody in recovery.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. She was in the program.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She was in the program. It's. It's cool.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you understand each other.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, understand each other on that level, but you also have to have, like, more in common beyond that. And we. We never really did.

[Interviewer/Host]

So when did the fight start and why?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I mean, it was. Was just later on, and it was. It wasn't like a ton of them. You know, it was just. I always. She. I don't want it. She's a nice person, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

She is.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, she's a nice person.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's always two sides to her story.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And she had to put up with me. Right. And long story short, I was like. I was. I was still kind of a magpie. I was still collecting stuff that she didn't like.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like what? Comics.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Comics. Yeah. Didn't like the comics and toy collecting, like, at all. And. Yeah. Yeah. And. And it just wasn't gonna work out.

[Interviewer/Host]

You guys are not getting along.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not getting along.

[Interviewer/Host]

Dad gets sick.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Dad gets sick. Dad gets cancer, and we kind of. We kind of like, everything is kind of. Kind of put to the side. We're dealing with dad's cancer.

[Interviewer/Host]

How are you guys dealing with it? How's mom taking it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Mom's being a caregiver and trying to be the strong caregiver. And at the time, we. I. You know, we thought there's a possibility he could fight it off. Right. And. But Mom's. My mom had just been a caregiver for her mom who died, and then she had to be immediately a caregiver for my dad. Long story short on this one, he got colon cancer, went away, full remission. And then it comes back immediately, and it's. He's got weeks to live. Weeks to live. Gets into his stomach, and.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

All this. And we have a last. Our last, like, conversation where he's, like, not just on morphine.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Our last real conversation. And he sits me down, he's in the hospital, and the last thing he wants to talk to me about is my relationship with my wife.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because he sensed it over a long time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. That.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's. That you're not happy. It's Not.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You're not happy. It's not working.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what did he tell you?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Life is too short to be. To be with somebody you're not happy with. Right. And you know you deserve happiness. And. And we were, like, really tight and we rarely talked about, like, relationships. So it was such a. It was like, why is he bringing this up? But he was right. He was right. And again, no fault of hers. Right. I was a massive pain in the ass.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And so dad passes away, and that is just a huge change in my life. That's like an anchor gone. And at that point, I see that, like, as a, as, like, you know what? It's just. I need it. I need a change in life. I don't even know if it's the best decision in the world or not. And I've reconnected with some friends, including Melissa.

[Interviewer/Host]

And. Because you knew Melissa from back in the day.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, Melissa I've. My. My wife Melissa, I've known for 41 years. So we. So she was at that Crystal Palace. She was partying there. So she's seen it all. She's seen it all. So we're friends. Reconnected through classmates.com.

[Interviewer/Host]

oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So we, We. I get. I get a divorce. Yeah. And move to San Francisco. Move away from. Never thought I'd leave San Diego. I love San Diego. Move up to San Francisco.

[Interviewer/Host]

What attracted you to San Francisco?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was just for, back then it was cool and I needed. I needed a change. I just needed a change of scenery. Didn't want to leave the state of California and I didn't want to live in la. So San Francisco was the next best choice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I mean, you were weird in San Diego. In San Francisco, your home, everybody's weird.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, everybody's. That's. That's part of it. You know, it's certainly changed for San Diego now, but San Diego back then, it was pretty. Pretty much a normal town. And San Francisco back then was a different city than it is now. But, yeah, I was, I was up there and, you know, I just. I was selling auto parts. So I went from, from working at the warehouse to selling auto parts. And I thought the reason I bring that up is I like, well, this is my life now and I'm totally happy with it. Like, I like this job. I never. When you, when you have realistic expectations of, well, I was going to go nowhere in life and die, but now I've got this job because I had no skills. When I walked out of prison, my. One of my biggest fears Is I have no skills.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Well, I mean, you're organized. You learned a lot in prison, so. Auto parts. But you're still collecting comics and doing your.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, still doing all that stuff, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

This is. Cool with it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah. Like, totally cool with it. Oh, yeah. She has to be. No, no. She's as much of a collector as I am, so there you go. So, yeah, I got the normal job, and I'm super happy with it. I'm like, if this is the job I work on at the rest of my life, I'm totally cool. Like, it makes enough money, I like it enough. But I always kept on, like, finding something more. Right. That's when the comic shop comes up. I'm in San Francisco, and this is before Melissa and I are married. We.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you're living together.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, we were living together, and, like, within a year, I bought the comic story. It just. It just landed in my lap.

[Interviewer/Host]

But how. How did you make that decision?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was really quick and probably not smart.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, just suddenly it's available. You have money.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, I'm working at Oakland Acura.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I hate working in Oakland. Like, I. I hate Oakland. Like, hate Oakland, like, a lot, so. And hate going over that Bay Bridge every day. So I'm looking for something, and I'm at lunch, and I open the paper, and there is an ad for some comics for sale. I answer the ad because I'm like, well, I'm gonna buy this big chunk of comics. It was. It was affordable, and I'm going to save it for when I open a store someday in retirement. So that was my plan.

[Interviewer/Host]

When you retire, would you open a store?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

When I retire.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So when I'm making this deal with the guy, the guy's all, well, I mean, there's a comic shop for sale right now. You want to buy it? And it just so happened to be the shop. I shopped at the Comic Outpost, so it was my comic store.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm like, I'll just talk to the guy. I never thought any of this would go down. We talk. We agree on a price. We go to a pizza place, make a handshake deal.

[Interviewer/Host]

You guys had the money.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I had the money.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Had the money. I post. Yeah, post divorce. Made a lot of money off the condo. We. We bought a condo for, like, next to nothing. And the housing market went crazy. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the money was there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Money was there.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I bought the store, and. And it was just like that. It was within two weeks. I had To Quick read, half read, Small Business for Dummies. And then I was owning a comic store which would, was kind of was like a lifelong dream.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you, did you feel like this is a dream come true?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, at first.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it always was, it was always a really fun job. But then, you know, I always said to myself, if this thing becomes a job, like, if it starts feeling like work, I'm out. And it didn't for a long time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you got into comic books as an entrepreneur at a very good time in our culture. Very good time, very lucky. Because this is. MCU is getting hot. Right. Spider Man's rebooted and it's good.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So, so right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Nolan is reboots Batman. And it's great.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's all. Yeah, it's kind of weird how the timing worked out so I took it over in 2003.

[Interviewer/Host]

Kind of weird. You're the luckiest dude I know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, I, I, X Men had come out 99, Spider Man, Spider Man 2 came out the year before I opened my store.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it's, yeah, we're just a couple of years before Nolan starting Batman and the MCU starting. And you know, in the meantime there was like Sin City came out and you know, and it's just creeping up. It's doing better and better. It's. When I, when I got there, it was still like recovering from post 9 11, post 90s stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, not a lot of it was very specific.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Batman Hush was the best selling comic. So it was out right when I started my store. And then it just started revving up. The competition between Marvel and DC got a lot more serious.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's good for you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, it was great in the, in the beginning it was, it was absolutely great. And it was kind of a renaissance time for comic books, for independent books too. And it was kind of the last hurrah of American comics, now that I look back on it. It was kind of sad.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But the storytelling was getting much better, the art was getting better, the comic book sales were going up.

[Interviewer/Host]

What were the people like coming in and out?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was normies. So like, we got it. It was a. Hollywood was bringing in a lot of normies. But what helped was the comic books were story driven. So we still had great writers like Mark Miller who were, who were out there working with, you know, either Wildstorm in the early days, but then they like Marvel plucked him and you know, Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison, you know, all these old Judge Dread people coming in and writing America comics. And kind of turning it on there, turning it upside down.

[Interviewer/Host]

You won Best of the bay?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did. 2009.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why? Why, why? How did you differentiate yourself?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I. Oh, so my, this San Francisco is very San Francisco. Right. So most of the comic shops are going to be independent book oriented, you know, because it's such a hippie, independent town. I'm like, I am gonna be the normie superhero family store, because that's the one thing that isn't here.

[Interviewer/Host]

Weren't you drawing your own comics back in the day?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, God, yeah. I don't know. Yes, I was art school. I, I, I drew. We did what kind of became the precursor to the book. We did a comic called Horror show, and I did another superhero comic book.

[Interviewer/Host]

People don't know that you write and draw.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, they don't. And, And I get to keep it that way. Well, not anymore, but yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Not anymore.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, I, I did a superhero comic book that I might revisit, like, after YouTube. But yeah, I was, I was drawing and writing just for fun. Like, no expectations. And I don't consider myself anything.

[Interviewer/Host]

The store is growing, and the store's growing. Then you get a certificate for video production.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So when we win Best of the Bay in 2009. But this is like 2008. 2009.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Economy's going to crap, so the store is breaking even.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it's just breaking even. So I need, I'm like, I'm gonna, I want to do something fun possibly to, to make some more money. I don't want to, but we need to, like, figure this out. So I take a video intensive course. It's called a new media intensive course or digital video intensive at San Francisco State university. It was four months, 10 to 12 hours a day, six days a week.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it's like, basically film school with no theory put into four months.

[Interviewer/Host]

That sounds awesome.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Like, all. It was great. Great. First day we had cameras in our hands. Second day, we're editing. We learn how to light a scene. We, we learn how to write a script. You know, this comes in handy. We used a Matlock script. And I'll ever find. Yeah. And yeah. And it was people who all worked in the industry, and it's all practical. It was all practical. So by the end, all of us had shot, like, four little short films.

[Interviewer/Host]

And how did this apply to the comic book store?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

We were able to, I was able to, like, shoot podcasts, do podcasts, do, do ads. But it was always gonna be like, I want to do a podcast. And I Want to do some kind of live show. And I was thinking we live streamed. God, what was. What did Joe Rogan used to use to live stream on?

[Interviewer/Host]

You stream.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You stream. We used. You stream.

[Interviewer/Host]

The tiniest window.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The tiniest window. So we live streamed in our store way back when during Free Comic book day and 24 hour comic book Day, where people were. You, you make a comic in 24 hours.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the store starts doing good again and you kind of become, ah, you come. Become the mayor. Mayor of the nerds.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Huh?

[Interviewer/Host]

And ego Gary comes back.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Big time. All goes to my head.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why? What.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Stopped going to meetings.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why? You were cured.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I was cured. No, I was.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, I mean, what do you. What's your rational and what is my rational.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Say I was too busy. You're too busy for me. Too busy.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know how that goes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what's the wife thinking? Doesn't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She's busy too.

[Interviewer/Host]

So she doesn't know you're missing meetings or doesn't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Doesn't necessarily know. She's. She's like. We both. We had the two kids. Right. So.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you're learning to get pretty good at lying. At point this point, I would.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Very good. Yeah, very good. So say I'm going to meetings when I'm not, you know, so that was just a recipe for destruction.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's going to your head. And what's going down?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, no sponsor, no meetings. Going to my head. Things are going really well at the store. So that can mask a lot of stuff. Putting up a banner one day. Yeah, yeah. Superman Returns banner, which I still own. I will never get rid of it now.

[Interviewer/Host]

What happened?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

A ladder, a folding ladder. Flattens my thumb. Stupid injury. But my thumb was like this thin. Flattens my thumb. They have to like drill a hole in the nail and the. And the blood comes up like Monty Python. But at the emergency room because I had to drive myself there because my employee didn't know how to drive.

[Interviewer/Host]

San Francisco.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, San Francisco. They. They gave me some Vicodin.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, Daddy likey Viking.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. And it was pretty much off to the races to that point.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Suddenly in a great mood and don't feel any pain.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you just get a script.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Get a script.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you're just taken as prescribed.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it's normal at first. Then the thing is, when you, when you have a comic store, a lot of people offer you stuff, you know, and like what? Oh, advice, advice. That's it. Just through time, through. I. I mean, basically the. The addict mind kicked in again. Like, absolutely kicked in.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're coming in with coke is what they're doing.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They're coming in with coke. So it jumps really quick. So it goes from, like, getting prescripts, and at that time, it was the. The Vicodin opiate epidemic. Really easy to get scripts just make. You could just say, I sprained my ankle and my back hurt and. Yeah. And then, you know, we. I've always been offered weed, you know, in the store for trade or whatever. And a guy just, like, one day just. Yeah. Comes in, talk, offer some coke. I'm like, sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you go from saying no, though.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Going from no to let's go in

[Interviewer/Host]

the back and get dusty.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's. What shifted?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I. The relapse just kicked. The disease just kicked in at that point. The shifting point was probably. I mean, obviously the not going to meetings, not having a sponsor and realizing that I had already relapsed because for a minute, I had it in my head that I hadn't relapsed. When I was. When I was taking the pills, what were you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, because it was just doctor.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was doc. The doctor gay. I was just doing. But I mean, I had stopped doing the prescribed amount, so I just said it.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you weren't talking to your sponsor at all?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you feel ashamed or did you feel Totally.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Totally. And that's what. That's what fed the addiction was the shame behind it. And the. The difference this time was I was doing all of this in solitude. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

She didn't know what was going on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

She didn't know what was going. Sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

She didn't know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, I thought she didn't know because

[Interviewer/Host]

I think they always know.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They always know.

[Interviewer/Host]

We can fast forward to the Melissa Method.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, the Melissa Method. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you. You're really. You're on and off. There's the story of you going down to Comic Con.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

If you want to tell that. Cool.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So Comic Con.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you're basically out of control, complete.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So it goes. It goes well, because a coke habit is pricey. It's. It's very pricey, and it's a progressive disease. So when you. When I quit. I'll use my statements here. When I quit, it's like you kept. I've kept doing drugs to the point where I pick them up again. So if that doesn't make any sense to anybody at home, it makes sense to addicts. If I was doing rails this big back In N. Or 89, when I quit, it will mean I'm doing rails this big When I pick up. Within weeks.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Within days.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep. Same with booze. Everything.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. And the thing is, your tolerance is not the same as it was then, so it's very dangerous. But, yeah, in a very short amount of time, I was doing big old rails. Like, huge rails.

[Interviewer/Host]

How are things going at the. At work?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Insane. I was going slowly going insane. My employees are like, what the hell's going on? My wife's like, what the hell's going on?

[Interviewer/Host]

You have your son and a stepson at this point.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're a good dad.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I mean, I was never bad to them, but I wasn't a good dad when I was high. Now it's terrible, dad. Just getting high. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're thinking about them at all when you. When you're doing your rails.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

All the time. All the time. And it just made me want to get more high and not think about it, about how much I was failing them, like, constantly. And maybe I had it in the back of my head that, oh, I can. I can get around this. But then there was a point that kicked in. Is like, no, this probably it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I did it once. I can do it again. And then you probably can't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. But just through the grace of God, nothing bad happened to him. Now, I didn't take any unnecessary risks with them or do any drugs in front of them or. Or drive them anywhere completely incapacitated or anything crazy like that. I still had enough, I guess, humanity left in me to not do that.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's why coke is very tricky.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because it's not like you're all cloudy and slurry. You feel like, I can control this. I got this.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Until you're up for, like, four or five days. And it gets a little crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was when you. You. I couldn't believe that you didn't crash on the way back from San Diego. So just quickly, what happened?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay, go to San Diego. I'm, like, just completely out of it on coke. And there's video of it somewhere.

[Interviewer/Host]

There.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Is there?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, my goodness.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'll find it. It's. It's bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do we have the Coked up podcast?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, we were doing it. I wasn't involved. I had hired somebody to do some interviews, but we had, like, my plan. My Coked up was actually sounded like a good plan at the time, but it was very hard to get Internet. There was to use the booth to sell stuff and also as a. As like an interview, like, podcasting interview on the floor.

[Interviewer/Host]

Great idea, Con.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This was back in 2013, so it wasn't easy to do that, but we did it. And we got, you know, Dave Gibson, and, like, we got some big names to come in, and, and, yeah, but I was, like, losing my mind. So I get home, Melissa finds out what the hell's going on, and, I mean, she finds the biggest rocket cook. She, she does.

[Interviewer/Host]

And, and how do you. How, what is, how does she confront you on that? Oh, my goodness. She.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

While I'm gone, she's planning an intervention.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, no.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So she just plays it cool, and then all of a sudden, there's a bunch of people coming to my house.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm like, empty chair, huh? I'm like, oh, you know exactly what it is.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I know what's going on now.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is where people make a choice.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

To sit or. Or to be an Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And I decided to not be an I. I mean, I still love my wife, of course, and I still love my kids. It's not like that ever changed. I just, I was sick. I didn't like myself very much, and I made a lot of mistakes.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a, that's a very important decision that you made. That's, that's kind of like the real Gary coming through is I'm going to sit. Because you didn't have to because you, you were verbally abusive to Melissa.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, some of the stuff you said to her is out of hand.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer/Host]

She very easily could have left you anything. She should have and probably should have.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Should have. I, I, I, I, I can't even

[Interviewer/Host]

imagine speaking to anybody that way.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Not someone who loves you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Saying, call your sponsor, go to meetings, and you're telling her to go herself.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep. So this time I didn't. And we sat down. A good friend of mine is there, you know, who was a customer at the store, but he was also instrumental in bringing me back to recovery. He's kind of a recovery guru. And we sit down, we have the specialist there for the rehab, and he's like, we gotta go right now. And at that point, I could have said no, but I was done. I was like, you know what? Let's go. So we go to rehab, and, you know, I get cleaned up for 30 days, and it's really nice. One of the best things about it was they took away your. My phone too. And this is like 2013, so it's not as bad as it was yesterday. And it was so nice to not be around a phone for 30 days.

[Interviewer/Host]

Try it now, Gary. It's still nice. Yeah, try it now.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Maybe not for 30. I don't know if I can for 30 days, but for a week, I'd be nice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Everyone should put it away for a bit.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

For a bit, yeah, sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

So how did it go in. In rehab?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The rehab was. Was good because it got me reconnected with aa, but I wasn't ready yet. Right. So get out of rehab. Nice and healthy. I get out of rehab and just

[Interviewer/Host]

immediately right back in.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Right back at it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you have the store still.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Store is still around.

[Interviewer/Host]

Who's running it while you're inside?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

We have. I have a. I have a partial business partner.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And then I have the employees, and they're holding it together, and the store was, like, kind of doing its own thing. Didn't really need me there at that point.

[Interviewer/Host]

Might have been even better without you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It probably would have been.

[Interviewer/Host]

Give them a break.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I get back. Go right back to the store. Store's doing pretty good, but then things go downhill for me, like, fast. So, like, we're in. We're in rehab in August, so we're in September of 2013, and the store went from doing okay to, like, absolutely done by the end of the year.

[Interviewer/Host]

That fast?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That fast. It was like it just fell off a cliff. And it was my. My. Like, the store could have survived, but I was. I went back out again.

[Interviewer/Host]

You were back on doing the coke?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And just, like, burning through money.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Absolutely. Burning through money. So I have to make the decision to close it. But before I close it, somebody else comes in and says, like, I'll give you a song to buy it. And I'm like, you know, the customers still have it. I was like, fine, whatever. You know, I need. I need to.

[Interviewer/Host]

And all this time you're selling collectibles to feed your habit.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Stuff that's one of a kind.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I laugh so I don't cry. John Byrne had. I can send you the copy. It's still out there. You could find it on the Internet. But John Byrne had done a. A commission for me of Batman and Spider man on a double date with Catwoman and Black Cat, and Alfred's, like, barbecuing on the top.

[Interviewer/Host]

So good.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's so good. It's like he drew it for a comic book. Like, the guy took so much time with this commission. One of a kind. I'll never see it again.

[Interviewer/Host]

For two days worth of coke.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Maybe two days worth of coke. And I had Frank Miller original art from amazing Spider Man 100. A spread page where Spider Man.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The Fantastic Four.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's going through Your mind, when you're letting it go, are you thinking about, this is gonna hurt.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's gonna hurt, but, you know, that's. I need to get high.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And it hurts. Like, there's a couple things. Like some stuff I've sold, it's like, whatever, but, like, there's a couple. It's like, oh, those were.

[Interviewer/Host]

Those.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You know how much that Frank Miller spread would be worth right now? It's like, oh, and considering how much I sold it for, it's like, oh, but so you have life.

[Interviewer/Host]

You have to. You have to sell the store or you want to.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

We have to. Because I am. I'm bank. I'm going bankrupt at this point. She's carrying you guys, and Melissa's not going to carry me like this. The shop has to carry itself or it's done. And it could have, but I burned through all the money, so it just got tiresome. I had to have a check ready when the shipment came, and it just, like. It just wasn't sustainable at that point. And it was a choice of, do I continue to keep the store or do I try to fight to get my sobriety and my family back? And it was. It was an easy decision. So it was. Shut it down. Then it gets sold. So it stayed around for a little while, and I. Melissa kicked me out of the house.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you mean?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So she. Right around. Right around Christmas, she found some more pills, and she's like, you're out. Yeah. So. And originally it was. I went to sober living. So at first, nowhere, and then it. We. We set up sober living.

[Interviewer/Host]

So we're living's urine test, though.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Urine tests. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

How'd that go?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, I did so much. See, the thing is, though, I didn't do coke. I could tell. I could tell you the truth right now. I didn't do coke, but I had done so much coke that it was still in my system, like, days after. So I failed a test. I'm like, I for real didn't do any coke, dude. But they're like, right, you.

[Interviewer/Host]

They all say that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, they all say that. So they. They're like, the deal is you got to just go. You get kicked out for a day, and then you go to, like, a

[Interviewer/Host]

different house, you still got to pay for that day.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Still got to pay for that day. So that's what happened. And I'm like, all right, because you can't go home. I can't go home. So I slept in the car, left in the car, slept in the effing car.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hoping for tomorrow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Hoping for tomorrow. So this is 2013. I am 43, just lost everything, and I am sleeping in my effing car. Right. So I get into the. The next. The sobriety house. It's off. It's off. A Sloat in San Francisco, if you're familiar with that area. And I'm like, I'm gonna give it another go. I gotta find a job first. I just wanted to get, like, I had enough. Enough money set aside and didn't need a lot. It's just like, let's just get the sober thing going right now. Let's go to meetings.

[Interviewer/Host]

Meetings, Meetings.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. And there's meetings in the house and the people in the house. It was a nice house. People were pretty cool.

[Interviewer/Host]

You were still in touch with Melissa at this time?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

A little bit, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, a little bit is enough.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, a little bit. Which is like, I'm alive. I went to a meeting, just checking in. But she's not being like, you know,

[Interviewer/Host]

at the time that you're risking more than you were at Folsom. Like, it's a more dangerous situation now.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

You knew that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Like, this is way more dangerous than when I was younger.

[Interviewer/Host]

You got boys at home?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, Dad, I got kids I've abandoned, basically. I have let down. And that, like, that sticks the most. Right. Is what really motivated me to. To turn my. Because I didn't know if she was gonna get. I figured she wouldn't. And I'm like, oh, my God. Visitation with my kids. And I know other people have to go through. There's people out there going through it right now, and it's not to look down on them. This is a completely different situation, but with. What motivated me was like, I don't want to have. I don't want to. I don't want to be that dad. I don't want to be that dad. There's so many dads out there that have done that. It's like, I don't want to be that dad.

[Interviewer/Host]

You sit in circles with that dad. Every time you're at a meeting, there's one of those guys. Is there?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Can't be that guy.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I can't. And, you know, it sucks to be in that position as that guy. And, like, if I had to be in it, that's fine, but that. My main motivation was, I am not going to be in. Be that guy. I'm not going to let my kids down, period. So whatever I'm feeling, I have to. I have to deal with it. So I did. I, I. That was it. That was the thing that clicked for me and passed my next piss test. No problem. Nice and hot. Listen. Yeah, it was quite. They were all like, this. This is the guy who failed. So I think they were ready to, like, boot me out. And I passed. They're like, okay, we can move. You could. You could feel kind of like, attention leave, and we can move on. And.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that guy who technically threw you out that first night, which he should have. I don't know what the quote was, but it was a great moment in your story where you were kind of negotiating, almost fighting with the guy to stay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And whatever the quote was, he said, what you're doing right now is you're angry at external forces trying to get someone else to make a decision for. For you. We're not doing that here.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah, you got it. You got it. You got to do this on your own.

[Interviewer/Host]

But this is all this on you.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is on you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Come back tomorrow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

These are rules, you know? And. And he was right.

[Interviewer/Host]

He was right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's a great 100%. It sucks to hear at the time, though, you're like, does.

[Interviewer/Host]

But. It's a. But I make. Had me thinking about my own life. Everyone should think about that. When you're angry at external things, you're looking for someone else to make your decision for you. Yeah, don't do that. Man up. Make the call, man.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And. And I did. And, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

through this, through the sober living, it starts to come together, and I have to go through, like, just swallowing a lot of pride along the way. This is, you know, is going back to auto parts jobs, but not to the. Like, I was a. I'm a journeyman in that field. I had to go work at O'Reilly for $12 an hour.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Where I started, but that's. That's what you have to do. And I wasn't super happy about it. I was bitter. But it's like, I understood that, like, this is me getting a job. And in the meantime, I start a podcast just because I miss the store. And I'm like, I need a hobby. Because I know how important one of the things about recovery is. Going to the gym is really important. And it's not to. It's more. It's for this.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

More than anything. It's part of that routine. Right. And having a hobby. Like, having a hobby you enjoy. So I'm like, well, I like, we did the podcasting thing at the store. Let's just do one for shits. And giggles and me and my. Me and a friend. And we did our first show in a Starbucks at West Portal in San Francisco.

[Interviewer/Host]

What'd you name the show?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, the show was named Sutro Watchtower originally, which is a terrible name, but it was just a placer name.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Because we were like, literally. Because the shop, the Starbucks is under Sutro Tower.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, that's right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Which is a giant antenna in San Francisco.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And we thought Watchtower, like Watchtower. So it's terrible. It's a terrible name.

[Interviewer/Host]

All creators have a terrible name for

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

their channel, but it was just a placeholder.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And yeah, we do this show. I think we Talked about Batman vs Superman and like the Arrowverse and you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

And how are you handling being away from the comic book store and going to job day to day? How are you? Just hit the drudgery, the regret.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm handling it by going to meetings and talking about it and get myself a sponsor and temporary sponsors and whoever would have my ear. But I'm. It's tough. It was really hard.

[Interviewer/Host]

How long does it take Melissa to trust you again?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

A while. A while. We. Once I got. I think I moved on. We were just about to move on. I went through a bunch of jobs, So I started O'Reilly and then I just. Whatever would pay me more, I was gone, you know Tesla. Yeah. And ended up at Tesla eventually. But between that, I worked at a German car place and few Acuras.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Acura and Dodge and eventually end up at Tesla. But I'm. I'm back home. Within a few months, I'm back home. And it. Yeah, we're. So I'm doing the podcast thing. I'm going to work every day and especially when it's up, you know, in Marin. So I'm going to Tesla. I work for Tesla. I finally get a job at Tesla. I work my way up and what

[Interviewer/Host]

are you doing there?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, well, Tesla found me for someone on freaking LinkedIn of all things. Like, I'm actually, I'm the one person on earth who got a job on LinkedIn. They sent me a message and they were in the process of trying to not be a tech company and be an auto motive company because they have service centers, right. And they were treating them like tech centers. And it's like, you can't do that. So they need to bring in automotive people. And this was in 217. So they found me and they offered me like all the money in the world. And I'm like, okay, well, I. They. They're like, what would it take? And I'm like, I'm going to give them a stupid.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, how did you become talented and. And wanted. Why are you being recruited? What skills?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think they were. I was on. On LinkedIn already, but I just had a lot of experience in auto parts. That's it. And, and it. It's probably just as hard now, but it was hard to find people. It's a generational thing, but it was hard to find people who, who were.

[Interviewer/Host]

My boy can't change an alternator.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Doesn't even know what it is.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So, like, finding people who had skills in that field was getting tough. Was getting tough. And they had the money and they were just kind of flinging, I think it everywhere to see. But the fact that they found me is so weird. And I found that email when I was at work at Toyota and I'm like, I'll just answer it. And then, like, they shot me back and I'm like, okay, I'll just show them. I'll just tell them how much money I want. And they said yes. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'm working there now. It was fine. Like, for big corporations, they're actually probably the best I've ever worked for. The.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you turning wrenches?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, I was working in parts. So I was setting up. I was helping with the parts department. That had no focus whatsoever. And when I left, it didn't have any either. That's the problem. But like, yeah, working on a Tesla parts, I won't bore anybody. It's just really different than working at a regular car because Tesla's. You're pretty much just changing tires. That's about it. Door handles, tires and screens.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that's where you discovered YouTube can kill some time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

YouTube can kill a lot of time. So I was watching a lot of YouTube and I was still doing my podcast and doing like a little. A little bit here on YouTube. I was telling you earlier, we got kind of inspired by talking Dead, but we were going to talk about Walking Dead. I would, we would find about great.

[Interviewer/Host]

Chris Hardwood.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, we, we, we cover Ash vs Evil Dead Westworld counterpart. Just any weird show. And we just do a live stream afterwards. And American Gods, you know, and we get a little traction there. And it was through Expanse, we started getting a bunch of traction, which was great. Which was great before any culture nonsense started going on. Right. So this is all going on in the background while I'm working at these parts jobs and yeah. People I'm friends with now, I'M all watching. I'm at Tesla and I've got my phone down here.

[Interviewer/Host]

Who are you watching?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers and in the early days, drinker.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. I was watching Eric July Young Ripa

[Interviewer/Host]

shout out to Yellow Flash.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yellow Flash. Hell yeah. Yellow Flash. I was in his streams a lot back in the early days. Yeah, it was. And eventually, you know, a couple of videos took off. Right. The first one that took off for me, like big time, was like 30,000 views was the Expanse getting canceled. I did a video on that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let's take a break.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, take a break because now we're getting into nerd rotic. Before we take the break. How's Melissa doing with this podcast thing? She's watching you do it. You have involved. She thinks it's stupid.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, she actually, she. She really. She's. She's part of the operation now. She's the brains of the operation. This thing doesn't happen without her. Does she think I'm stupid all the time? No, no. She's really supportive and we could definitely get to like the part of the story where she was freed up to have all that time. But I think she's proud. She's proud of me in her way.

[Interviewer/Host]

Be right back.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you have a video that takes off, right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. Relatively speaking.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I get it. 30,000 views. Took me two years to get to,

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

so that's a lot years to get to that. And when I saw it happen, I was just like. It was the. It was awesome. I was like, wow, 30,000 people like a baseball stadium watched my video.

[Interviewer/Host]

What video was it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was the Expanse getting canceled. It was for a bummer. It was a complete bummer. But I was. It was just reporting that it was cancelled and I had never really done a video. I was a live stream channel, purely not thinking. I did everything wrong. Right. When I started live streaming, it was just to back up podcasts. It was just to record the podcasts. So I had no idea people were watching. So I'll never forget one of my first. I consider my first sub because he was the first one I contacted. Brian Smart, I love you. He emails me. He's all, I have been trying to talk to you for the last three weeks. There's a chat right below your that you're not paying attention to. I'm like, there's a chat?

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't know?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, I had no idea.

[Interviewer/Host]

Your fans are there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So we start doing. I'm like oh my God, there's four people in here. So it was success, total success. This is all I ever wanted, was just talk, nerdy stuff. And I had another co host, is a friend of mine, is a good guy, used to work for Netflix, helped build Disney plus. He's kind of a brilliant guy.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's not his fault what happened over there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, it's not his fault. But he's the one who's all, you know, we can make money off this. I'm like, get shut up. Can't make money off YouTube. I'm not going to make any money. I'm not doing this for money. I'm happy. I like it.

[Interviewer/Host]

And were you aware of, like monetization and all of that?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Not super aware. And at the time, I wasn't even monetized.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So I'm like, that's not going to happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, you were making zero money.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You're doing it for years, just doing it for fun. Doing this exact same thing I do now, but just, I just did it as a hobby because it was a chance to hang out with my friends and it kept me out of trouble.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it was doing something I truly loved. Every morning when I get up, since before the comic shop, I get up and go to entertainment websites. So back 20 years ago was the force.netthe1ring.net, you know, just looking at all my nerdy stuff, it made me happy. That's it. So why not make a show around that? And then once something hits 30,000 views and actors from the show contacted me and they're like, hey, thanks for the support. And I'm like, hey, thanks for the great show. You know, like, it was really a great show. Seeing it get picked up by Amazon was awesome.

[Interviewer/Host]

So big.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was huge. And then, you know, we kind of kept doing. I. I never thought to make videos still.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you're still not thinking about, I can make money this.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. So the first video that took off was it technically a live stream. I did it live, but then once it hit vod, yep, it took off and it didn't really click right away.

[Interviewer/Host]

Totally understand.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And eventually I just started making videos because I was told, well, that helps you get subscribers. I'm like, well, I can do a video. I can edit a video real quick. And what I'll do is I'll just riff off my last live stream, you know, because. Because I. I mean, even to this day, my channel has more live streams than it does videos. I think I've only done, wow, 600 videos because it says 1700 on my channel. 600 of those are videos, the rest are live streams. I. I live stream way more and I didn't think about it because now I think of myself more as a somebody who makes videos. But I honestly live stream.

[Interviewer/Host]

You live stream all, all the time, everywhere.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I love it.

[Interviewer/Host]

What were the, the monetization requirements when you were getting close?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, those were back in the days of you got a thousand subs.

[Interviewer/Host]

A thousand subs. And that was it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't even think it was a thousand subs.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's before me. You needed like 4, 000 watch hours.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It was 4, 000 watch hours and 500. I. I can't even remember. It's not the requirements that you have today. No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you remember when you hit it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I remember when I hit it and somebody gave me $5 in a super chat amount. Oh, that's awesome. Thanks.

[Interviewer/Host]

You made money.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I made money. I remember cash, like transferring the first $50 out of. Out of my account, just going right on. That's like absolutely easy money right there. And I was happy with it and I didn't need anymore. And to this day, I haven't asked for a super chat. I've never asked for a super chat.

[Interviewer/Host]

You haven't?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no. And it, it's, it's been brilliant. The support has been brilliant. But yeah, once the, Once that took off, Doctor who happened. Right. And that was the first time.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you mean, Doctor who happened? Doctor who's been happening for a long time.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

All right, So I guess I gotta frame that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, something. Things were happening within this particular segment of pop culture.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

That made you angry.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, That I couldn't believe what was happening. Because if you like. Well, okay, so let's go to the Expanse. You love the Expanse? I love the Expanse. The Expanse kind of showed where entertainment was going at the time. It was prestige television. It was done. Right. The Expanse, season one and the first two seasons are 10 out of 10.

[Interviewer/Host]

10 out of 10.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Science fiction. Really a great take on the world. A pretty even take on the world.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it was a diverse show. That never said we're a diverse show. It was going that way, naturally. It was kind of matching the demographics of America and the uk and nobody was making an issue out of it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, it felt like this is where things would go.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's hard Science fiction, like this is how things would happen.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Especially so we're talking about going to Mars. The Belters, and they're, they have a unique culture And a language.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. The Belters were the Teamsters. Mars was military. Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Earth was the welfare state.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Was the welfare state that was run by the United Nations. And I thought it was a really accurate look at the United Nations. And everybody was on basic income. And everybody on basic income sat around their house and did nothing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. They got high.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And then you had the wealth gap.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Giant wealth gap. And it was a problem. That's why people were leaving. That's why people would leave to Mars, you know, And Mars was militaristic, but they were goal oriented and they were, it's, it's complex, but there was a lot of, a lot of Martians were just good people, you know, and then they had like, the Space Mormons, which was funny, but I thought it was a relatively objective look at life for the most part, kind of changes later in the books, but it does.

[Interviewer/Host]

I stuck with them. I have the books memorized.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I did too. I, I did too. I think they rallied at the end. The books rallied at the end. There's a couple of books I don't like, but what parts of the story they expanse bother you, Michio?

[Interviewer/Host]

Pa. You don't like Pa, huh?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I hate Pa. I hate Pa was instrumental in destroying the Earth and face no consequences for it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Totally agree. And I would skip her scenes, no offense to the actress. Skip her scenes in the book.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I was okay with Drummer.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, Drummer was fine.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was okay. Drummer was fine with bull being kind of in there.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right. I, I, I see where you're coming from.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And then they went away from Holden in the later books completely. I'm like, what are we doing? But it rallied at the end and really. And ants, unlike the show answers the protomolecule, like, tells you what's going on.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So if you watch the show and not read the books, there's.

[Interviewer/Host]

You just got started.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You just got started. It's basically Game of Thrones, you know, like ending at, at a dance with dragons or A Song of Ice and Fire and. Except you can read the books and find out what's going on.

[Interviewer/Host]

I forget which run. Whether it was Ty. I don't forget, but he was in his. George's assistant for a while.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. So both Ty Frank and Dan Abrahams were, are like proteges.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They're like the two people who could probably go and finish A Song of Ice and Fire on the planet.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. So they, they were making like an RPG some and said, this be a good novel.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, yeah. Yes. It started out as As a game. I wish they hadn't gotten super political a few years ago. They haven't. Well, not that I've seen since, but I was. Yeah, I was a huge supporter of the show. And I still say, still watch it. I still think it's pretty good. So what.

[Interviewer/Host]

How does that track with Doctor who and what you were doing?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So Hollywood drastically changed post a couple of things. The first Trump administration and me too, kind of coincided. 2015, 2015, 2016. Something radically changed in Hollywood. What are the origins of that? I can get really in the weeds with that. I think a lot of it was dictated from the Obama administration and on.

[Interviewer/Host]

You don't have to get into the weeds on that because that's an opinion.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But it's my opinion. It is, yes. My opinion.

[Interviewer/Host]

But what happened to the storytelling is kind of fact.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Whatever. The origins were. Right, Right. And I have my. I have my suspicions, which I've gone over a lot on my channel. It did change, and we saw characters like Luke Skywalker turned into broken men who try to kill their nephew because they had a bad dream and sit on an island drinking the. The booby milk from a giant space manatee. And while they were trying to introduce new characters in a Star wars franchise that everybody would have been fine with, it was the treatment of Han Solo, it was the treatment of Luke Skywalker, and it was clearly not creatively driven. All of. All of that was not creatively driven. It was social and political motivations behind these decisions. A lot of channels were born with. With the Last Jedi and the Force Awakens and. And the Rise of Skywalker. I got into the mix.

[Interviewer/Host]

So are those bad movies because it's a female lead?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, they're bad movies because they weren't planned. They were poorly written, and the female lead was propped up. Basically, she was propped up by degrading the Legacy characters. So that's where the frustration comes in. Now you will hear the excuse from the Access Media and even people who work on the show and Lucasfilm that people just hate women. Every Star wars fan would have been completely fine with a female lead and a female Jedi and Finn, who was actually the more interesting character out of all of them. He was who they made a clown. Not the fans. The fans were mad at them for the treatment of Luke. What we have been waiting for is to see full powered, full Jedi Luke, who could, like in Dark Empire, who could bring down a Star Destroyer with the Force. We just wanted to see that. That's all we wanted to see.

[Interviewer/Host]

I. I Heard that even Mark Hamill didn't love the way that character wrapped up.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

He was not happy. He was clearly not happy. And he was showing that throughout the press. Now they told him to finally shut up. I don't think he ever fully did. And you can get mad at Mark for other things he said.

[Interviewer/Host]

You can. But I don't care about what he said. I don't care about his political positions. I care about the story.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

As far as the story of Star Wars. He was clearly not happy about it and neither were the fans.

[Interviewer/Host]

You mentioned a phrase, access media. You coined that. That's. But that's a term that is used now in media. What does that mean?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Access media is the corporate media that essentially. And not all corporate media. It's also some independent media that will basically throw softballs as far as interviews go and be talk. So toxic negativity. There's also toxic positivity. And they will gas up gaslight things that aren't very good. So they can maintain their access. And that it is not for money at all. I mean, I've said it before. I'd almost respect that more if you did that for money, because that's, that's something of value. No, it's just to maintain your access. And what they get is screen. They get early access to movies or TV shows. They get screeners. And when you're watching them, they've got like some giant watermark thing over them.

[Interviewer/Host]

Annoying.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And instead of being authentic and honest all the time, they pretty much. They're really soft on their criticism and really crazy and absolutely unbelievable with their over praise with things like Ironheart or the Marvels, which are just objectively bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

So they have to review these positively or they don't get the next interview.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Or at least think that way. Now, it's not.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is not your opinion. This is a. This is how it works.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is how it works. And it's not like the studios tell them that. The studios don't tell them that. They. They do it on their own. And what happened is people like yours truly or anybody else who went to them normally, like a. I used to go to a CBR or screen rant for my news all the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Or ain't it cool news. And honestly, ain't it cool news back in the day was the most real. They were absolutely the most real. Especially Moriarty. He was like a. A drinker prototype. Yeah, yeah. You know, he would shred stuff. And that's why I love the guy, because I knew, well, this Guy's honest. You know, I didn't agree with them all the time, but you started seeing these, these giant sites and these critics who really, they went out of their way to, I mean, to just to call movies that are obviously fly. Like, you can, like, we can have a difference of opinion of like Shang Chi. Right? Yes, I. Some people could think it's good. I think it's terrible. But it's not the worst thing Marvel's ever done.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think it made money. Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. No, it didn't. It didn't. Okay, well, yes, I, I got called.

[Interviewer/Host]

They should decide.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's how they should decide. But that what. Where they're gaslighting people is saying these things are making money when they're not. The year that Shang Chi came out and the Eternals, and I think it was Black Widow, Marvel wrote down $65 million. The studio. So they didn't make money. If you're writing down money, you're not making any money.

[Interviewer/Host]

So if a movie makes. We hear the numbers all the time. A movie makes $300 million. That's not really the number, is it? No, it does. Box office. 300 million. That's.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's the money. It. It. Okay, so if a movie makes. If they announce it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Right. That is the movie. That is the money generated at the box office.

[Interviewer/Host]

So that's free split.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that's not including the marketing budget.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's not including marketing budget. That's not including anything you're paying the actors afterwards. That's not including the theaters take.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. Which is about half.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Which is about half. It averages out half internationally. It's. It's a little more. They get, you know, China gets a huge amount of the money. And then it evens out here, particularly with Disney, which can kind of strong arm the theaters and have been for a long time. So Disney gets 60 of the domestic.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

In a lot of cases. So it's just, it's. We're just. It's semantics. It's parsing words and it's. And then they're not calling out. So the press is supposed to call this stuff out. So we started calling it out. And listen, I didn't know anything about it, so I just researched it and I talked to people. I talked to people who work in Hollywood. I talked to people who had knowledge of the box office and just learned what they. What they taught me. And it's pretty easy. Like, theaters don't show movies for free. Right. So when we're. So when I, When I went out and called Shang Chi a flop. It was a flop. It did not profit. And I got called out by Simulu, which is fun, it's fine.

[Interviewer/Host]

But called out for what?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

For criticizing calling it a flop when and he said it wasn't a flop, but it was a flop. It. It was. It did not. It was the technical term of a flop. The technical definition which is it did not profit. At the box office we had the same battle over Superman. Now I wouldn't go out and call Superman a flop, but it certainly didn't perform as well as it should have. But that. That's where the access media comes from. It is just this divide and this disconnection and they are just became a PR firm for the studios. So independent people like myself and others Jeremy from geeks of gamers, Yellow Flash drinker Mahler just started do their doing their own thing. Right. And, and none of us have ever said like our opinion is the be all, end all. It is just an opinion. But people started gravitating towards it because it was the truth, you know. And you know, sometimes I get things wrong and sometimes they get things wrong. And, and the, the cool thing is we can go I got that one wrong.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is are there any movies or TV shows that you criticize that later on you're like, actually it was okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

If we go way back. There's movies I was way hard on and like Thor, Dark World. I think I was a little too hard on that movie. I actually it's not that everybody calls it's not that bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's not.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But when you can see other like the Star wars prequels, have they not benefited the most from the Disney trilogy? I those aren't that bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that a hot take? I don't mind those movies.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I hated them when they came out.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I have very much softened my opinion on them. I don't think they're great. We could do without Jar Jar, the Hobbit trilogy. I hated it when it came out and I and I watch it all the time now.

[Interviewer/Host]

Same. It won me back.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It won me back. So anything recent that I. I can't say. I can't say. Yeah, nothing. Yeah. Like it's not like I've gone back to Doctor who. If we want to get back to and Doctor going, ah, it wasn't that bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

I want to know what attracted attention to you. So what you why you were dead?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, I just came out and said the Doctor's not a woman. So when they, when they the changes of Doctor who were happening even Before Jody Whitaker came along and it was getting, it was getting filled with just political nonsense beforehand. Even with Capaldi, who did a great job, I mean, like, it's. I wish he would have gotten better scripts because he's one of the better doctors and one of the better actors to play it. And I have a lot of respect for that guy. But when they have a lot of

[Interviewer/Host]

respect for Jody Whitaker, she's a brilliant actress. A lot of this is not the talent's fault.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's not the only thing, like, as far as her taking a job, I don't criticize her for that. It's when she took the job and what she said, then I'll criticize her.

[Interviewer/Host]

Fair enough.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Then I'll criticize her. Because if she had just gone, I'm going to do the best I can as a doctor. Like to come out with, that's fine. I'm going to, I'll criticize the show, but I'm not really going to get on her. And I use the term the first female doctor played by Jody Whitaker because that's how the Access media referred to her, like, all the time. So that's why I used it in all of my videos.

[Interviewer/Host]

It became a label culture.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It did. It did. And when she, when, when they showed the, the transition from, you know, that she was going to be the next Doctor, I kind of knew it was Doctor who pressing the panic button a little bit. Something Steven Moffat even said prior to. He said if we, if they change the Doctor into a female, they're pressing the panic button. Well, they did too soon, in my opinion, and my opinion was at the time and still is, that the Doctor's a male character. And the only reason you change the Doctor into a female character, it was not a creative decision. It was one to grab headlines. And it was one motivated by social and political. It was, it had social and political motivations. It was not a creative one. They don't know where to go with this. And if they're going to do a female doctor, are you going to really. Are you going to explore the, the real differences between a male doctor and a female doctor? And they didn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

They didn't.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They didn't. They just treated it the same. Her first episode, record breaking. But I was, I was there reviewing it and I just said, the Doctor's not a woman. And it was at that time that could get you suspended on Twitter, I remember. Yeah, it was crazy. So that's all I said. It wasn't anything crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why do you think you're labeled far right. Are you far right?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, no, I think I'm labeled far right for the same reasons a lot of people get labeled far right is you don't agree with one extreme political sect on 100 of everything. I mean, look at how they treat J.K. rowling is, is progressive as they get. She's, she goes off the reservation for one issue and look at, look at like what she goes through. So I don't know. I, I'm not a hyper political person. But as far as, I mean, we've had the discussions about it. As far as like whatever criticisms were flung at me. I, I'm on the Internet. I understand. I'm on the Internet and I don't really care what people think.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm glad you don't care. I don't think they know you support Amnesty International. Gay rights.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Gay children at risk, all that. They don't think they know. They're aware of that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think by changing the, this beloved ip, are the intentions good? Are they trying to do something good for society?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, I think some of them have that in their mind that the intentions are good. But we all know what gets, what gets paved with good intentions.

[Interviewer/Host]

We do, we do.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think there are some true believers in there that feel like that you're, you're getting to a modern audience and you're accessing children with certain messaging. The problem is I, I disagree with a lot of that, but beyond that, it's, there's no such thing as a modern audience. That's the thing they're always chasing. It's just, it doesn't exist. Well, okay, I'm gonna reframe that. It does, but there's not enough of them. What you want. There's always the audience you want. If you're making Doctor who or Star Trek or Star wars, you want that to have the most mass appeal as possible.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And as I said earlier, if you have a message you want to get across to get people to think about, don't answer the question for him. Present it to him with respect, which is not, not spoon feeding it to them. And, and that's what a talented writer does. A talented, like even Alan Moore. We know where Alan Moore comes from politically. Thinks he's a wizard. He's a, he's a brilliant writer, but even he can write a really good Superman story. Like whatever happened to the man of tomorrow? You know, he doesn't let that get in the way of telling a good story. You know, J. Michael Straczynski, you know, I loved Babylon 5. Yeah. And I think Babylon 5 actually goes into some stuff that he. Sometimes a story can go beyond the writer. And I think it really. A lot of stuff that happened during COVID you can look at some Babylon 5 episodes that, you know, there was no intention there, but they really say a lot about it. So that's, that's what good storytelling does. And, and it doesn't, it doesn't drive people away. Because if you are, if your intention is like, I want people to think about this. Well, you want the most people to think about it as possible. So you don't talk down to them. You don't, like I said earlier, you don't like, start a story going, listen up, bigots.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's not the way to.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's the way to go. It's not the way to convince somebody. And it's really, it really divided fandom in a way that I've never seen in my life. Now, fandom has always been crazy and critical. And they're like, you thought you could change the doctor into a woman and people wouldn't speak up. That's kind of crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thinking about it now, how many arguments did you see at the comic book store about this comic verse, that one, this character every day.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And it was great. I loved them because they were good spirited debates and like, and I'm an idiot. So I'm sitting there arguing with customers and we're like yelling at each other, but we're cool afterwards. But yeah, and I had to hear some crazy stuff. But I, you know what? I listened to them. I sat there. Art. Art Bell, greatest interviewer ever. Yep. Non confrontational. Like, you kick back a little bit. But I listen to a lot of art. And he will let people have their say with respect.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And part of, I think being on a, on a live stream in particular is you are kind of running some customer service and you got to kind of let people talk, let people do their thing and listen to it. And if it's insane, you can kick back a little bit. But there's still a way to kick back without, you know, calling the guy in a hole.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why do you think nerd culture, geek culture, which I come from, you know, reading your book, it's almost like reading autobiography at some places. The way I came to Tolkien is the same way through the 70s cartoons, Star Wars. I remember waiting online as a kid, changes me. Why do you think Hollywood went after these, this particular beloved IP with hardcore fans and want to change it? Why is that the target?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The. Well I mean, my opinion on the matter is Hollywood went after it because they wanted to. They felt they were going to force the change that was needed, consequences be damned. Because this is what we. We know better. So we're gonna. I mean, with Doctor who, we're going to take something away that was the whole. Because with Doctor who, you can make a separate series with a female Time Ladies, they were called. You could have done that, and Doctor who fans would have watched it. You could have had a Doctor who show and. And a Time lady show.

[Interviewer/Host]

You could have.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You could have done that. And they didn't do it because they wanted. They felt like somehow you're being inclusive by taking something away. And we still see it to this very day. Right. And it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't add to anything.

[Interviewer/Host]

Has it worked with any of these? No, honestly, none of these worked.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You could have some, like, side characters where it works. And, like, I'm not militant when it comes to race or gender swaps. When it's with a side character, like in Harry Potter, if you make Susan Bones black, I don't care. But.

[Interviewer/Host]

But Snape is a problem.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Snape is a problem. Snape is a problem. And Doctor who was just as big of a problem. It fundamentally changes the show if it changes the past. So. And then what they did, knowing with Doctor who, like, what a problem it would be, instead of just having the female Doctor show up and leave, which they could have done, they're like, no, we need to reinforce her in the story, so we need to change the origin. So when they went back and changed the origin, and I heard way in advance, I. I had a friend who was working with, with Doctor who, who I knew from the comic shop days was telling me what's going on, I'm like, you got to be kidding me. He's all done. No, they're going to change the origin of Doctor who.

[Interviewer/Host]

I learned a lot of this stuff from your videos, and I would say the same thing. You know, Gary said, this is going to happen. I'm like, there's no way they're going to do that. Been 40 years. They're not going to do that. They're not going to retcon 40 years. They. But they did.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They did it and they did it to reinforce the female Doctor and they thought it was. They thought it was going to get to the new modern audience.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did any of this bring in women? Did it bring in any of these?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope.

[Interviewer/Host]

It didn't?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's still the same people watching this, this IP in generally it's the

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

hardcore Doctor who fans who are hanging on. And what Hollywood has failed to learn, that is, you know, you buy a really expensive IP for that built in audience. That built in audience are the ones who are they shepherd new fans in. They are the custodians. They, you, you, the company, own it. But Star Trek fans are the ones who make more Star Trek fans.

[Interviewer/Host]

My wife loves the mcu. My wife loves Star Trek because she would sit there, I would watch it as, you know, as the nerd who knows everything. She doesn't know anything. She just knows it's a fun, good story.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

She doesn't really watch any of that anymore.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, because they're not fun.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're not fun Doctor who, she became a fanatic. But back to Eccleston, she became a fanatic. And when, when Tenet came on, that's it. We were done. We were in, but we're out.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's. Oh God, it's such a shame. You know, I was just, I'm going through some classic who now right now, and it's like it's a show, it was made for nothing. And it's, and it's, it really is just carried with its acting and its storytelling because you've got, you know, Tom Baker talking to a paper mache dude like it's tinfoil. It's terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

I loved it when Tom Baker. I loved when I was a kid. I didn't notice, I didn't know some

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

of the themes are like really dark. They are and like, and magnificent. And I know that there was a lot of criticism in the UK about that, but I loved it as a kid.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think things are coming back? The pendulum always swings.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think so, but I think it's because I wish it was because, you know, we see the error of our ways. We are villainizing and demonizing the paying customer, our audience, the people who got us here. And constantly saying, we don't need you by. We're hunting for a modern audience. We're looking for a neuter, newer audience. Right. And it's like, you know, word of mouth is still the best marketing there is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Telling a story is still a pretty good idea.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's a good idea. And you, you forego that because you're searching for potential. Right. I've never understood that. There's nothing that there's no, there's no data out there that says Gen Z was gonna get into Doctor who if you changed, change it to a woman.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's no data.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

None. There's zero.

[Interviewer/Host]

But they'll show up for a good story because they will. The audience is still the audience. So you went from being ignored to being attacked, and now you have influence.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I got attacked and it was.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you're still being attacked. You're gonna be attacked for this.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah. As will I. Yeah, you will.

[Interviewer/Host]

I will.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Sorry.

[Interviewer/Host]

I care so much.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Huh?

[Interviewer/Host]

There was my friend. If that's a problem by Felicia, I don't care.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Thanks, brother.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, I feel like I'm in a coma somewhere. I don't want to wake up.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

This is.

[Interviewer/Host]

We do this for a living, so who cares?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, it's. It's really kind of the greatest gig

[Interviewer/Host]

in the world, isn't it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So when. When you get attacked on the Internet, like, not everybody's gonna. And this is no judgment on. Nobody wants to get the emails I get or you get. Nobody wants to get that stuff. But, you know, if you keep it in mind, like, I don't know, I've got the grading curve of life. The stuff I've been through, I'm like, this is nothing. Like, I'm not worried about it.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's why I spent so much time with your story. Because a lot of the hate you get really isn't warranted because there's no misogyny in you. There's no racism. There's really no political leaning. You just want your stories told properly and beloved IP just left alone. I think that's okay.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think it's okay to adapt something properly. And it doesn't mean you. They have plenty of room in original material to do whatever messaging they want.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you're influencing studios now. Do you feel that's. That power is earned of. Of having influence in Hollywood because they know who you are? I know that for a fact.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh.

[Interviewer/Host]

I talked to studio execs of all the big studios, and they know who Gary is and Will and everybody, and they're making decisions based on you guys. Oh, wow.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That I. That doesn't hit my mind very much at all. I try not, like, because of where the relapse came in last time. So I try to keep things very much in check, that I am just an idiot with a microphone.

[Interviewer/Host]

And because you're back where you are at the comic, you're hot shit again. You can't let Ego Gary come back.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you'll lose it all.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. I hope they listen to the people in the comments section and the people in the chat. I hope they, you know, take a good look at that and see what people because, you know, during a live stream, we'll have people rewrite the Last Jedi or the last episode, a Starfleet Academy, or we'll have a Robert Meyer Burnett on Friday Night Tights. Who pitched a better Starfleet Academy than the one they like? One I would watch. You know, so they're.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's not all them slinging, you know, whatever they're slinging.

[Interviewer/Host]

So tell me about Friday Night Tights, because that's Europe. What, Hundreds of episodes of that? How did that start?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

400.

[Interviewer/Host]

400. And what is FNT?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

FNT is a show. It is. It's. It's a live stream that we do every Friday. And it is. Climbed up to nine co hosts. And we talk about pop culture every. Every Friday. We've been doing it for this version of it for six years. I've been doing a Friday show for eight years.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's true you've never had anyone black or female on there? That's true.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Never. Not once? No. Not nobody. Gay? No. Never.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're being sarcastic because you have.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. A lot.

[Interviewer/Host]

You have a lot.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what we learn is fans are fans and the labels don't even matter.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Nope.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what makes FNT different? Because there's a bazillion of these shows.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

There is. I think it's the good mix. The chemistry of personalities and no filter at all. And what we really try to lean on, like, making you laugh. That's the whole point is. Of the show, is to make you laugh. And it's. It's just a bunch of people who like each other genuinely shooting the shit for three or four hours. And it's. It's no different than any other conversation of fans anywhere else that you have with your family or at a diner. And there's no plan to it at all. We kind of throw. We bullet point some subjects. We get to about three of them. We go off on tangents, so there isn't any real structure. Please don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

Don't create any. Just. Just leave it. Chaos.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I don't even think we know how. I don't know how.

[Interviewer/Host]

I. I don't know what I'm doing either. So what? Forbidden Frontier is something I came across accidentally and didn't know that Gary did this. What is that show?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It is another passion of mine. Like you, I like. I listen to Art Bell.

[Interviewer/Host]

Have you ever heard of ART Bell and Dr. Demento?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, yeah. Dr. Demento is. I listened to Dr. Demento before Art Bell, like years and years.

[Interviewer/Host]

Same 70s.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Back in the 70s. And this. This is how I grew up. But yeah, with UFOs and Bigfoot and ancient civilizations. Eric Von Daniken, Charles. Charles Berlitz was like the gateway.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Drug for a lot of people with the Bermuda Triangle.

[Interviewer/Host]

For me, it might have been. Graham Hancock in the 90s was the gateway to that kind of stuff. The.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

The pre Flood society, the fingerprints of the gods.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Graham, I think, graduated the subject to something.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Way more legit.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Like I always, like, all respect to the late Eric Von Daniken, Chariots of the Gods. Then we go back to Vilikovsky, who, honestly, I didn't know about till later.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Where all of this. Where all of this comes from. And In Search of. I watched In Search of All the Time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And X Files. And remember the show Sightings. Of course, that was the pre. So I've always been into this all my life. And listen to Art. But when. Yeah. When Graham came around, he took the subject of ancient civilizations and made it more palatable. Right. And. And did it honestly.

[Interviewer/Host]

And as a real journalist.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

As a real journalist who actually goes places and looks at these things and paid for it with his own money

[Interviewer/Host]

because Art Bell was the best to ever do it. But some. A lot of it was wacky, man. He was always very respectful, but a lot of it was just wacky. But you read Graham's work and it's like, this is serious stuff. And you know, Robert Shock and even Randall Carlson, these are real scientists. This is real stuff.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's real stuff. And I mean, you can't undersell when Randall and. And, well, Graham and Randall were doing them separately, but when they got together and did that on Joe Rogan, that really launched it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Launched it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And that's why we have a lot more legitimacy in this, including a. And a Netflix special with two seasons for Graham Hancock, which I never thought I'd see.

[Interviewer/Host]

Nope. And they tried to cancel that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They did Ancient Apocalypse.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep. I defended him hard on the channel when he was attacked for being a racist.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's like, that is the most ridiculous thing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, it's like, you don't know anything about this man.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

You obviously haven't seen his wife. Right. So it was very nice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. So here we go again. But I'm always frightened. Like, I was just getting started. I'm not really controversial, but I am. I go pretty hard against government and all of that. So when. When. When Joe Rogan, when they. When CNN tried to cancel him and they were going after Spotify, I was terrified because I was. I was Making a few bucks.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it was like, if they cancel Joe, this all goes away.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Spotify stuck by him. And then everything started to relax. It's like everything started to change.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think it was that moment that was surprising.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But they stuck by. Because I know a lot of employees in there didn't want to stick by him.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yep.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

But I think they saw the investment and saw that. That Joe isn't what. What CNN was trying to make him out to me, which is just ridiculous. No, no. He's just a regular guy, like, just a guy. He's just a dude. And he looks at things from a very dude perspective. And I think that, that, that. I think it's really endearing. And that's why he's the best podcaster out there.

[Interviewer/Host]

And all the things he criticized back in those days. You criticized. I did. Turns out we were right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which I knew the whole time we were right. And now we're allowed to be right. And he. Joe kicked that door in.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, he did.

[Interviewer/Host]

By sticking to his guns.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Spotify sticking with it. Elon coming in and buying Twitter and changing that, which absolutely changed. YouTube.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I mean, and Facebook and everybody. Everything else. YouTube is. It ain't perfect, but it's way. I'm. I haven't been going to break the streak. We haven't been demonetized on F and T in. In a long time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, knock on wood.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't dodge that bullet every week, but. But I try.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I'm used to not doing. I like I was fine with it, but it's just. It what you can get away with now on YouTube. Aside from a couple things.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you think happened? What

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think when. When Elon exposed. Through the Twitter files, when they exposed all the government interference. Because if they were interfering with Twitter, they're. They're at Google right now. They're. They're everywhere right now. They are. They still are, but that had to get loosened up. And I also think advertisers, we. We can't discount the money factor in.

[Interviewer/Host]

Nope.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So advertisers were losing it by. By acting, you know, clutching their pearls and saying, we cannot show ads on this stuff. And they saw how much they were losing, how much money they were losing because you could advertise on all this YouTube stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Joe was demonetized the whole time and then woke up one morning and it was just on.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

They didn't say anything. Just quiet.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. Just because the advertisers loosened up a little bit.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. They. I would like to have 30 million people look at my ad. Yep, it's the same story. It's just about people and audience. It's not about point of view, really.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No. And it, and it's not like it was. We look back on it and go. That was really common sense. And that was considered highly controversial. That's, that's how we get, we get caught up in this stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's one of the darkest times in our history. I'll never forget the day Jen walked in and said they're gonna lock down the seat. We were in LA at the time. They're gonna lock down the city, close all businesses. And I laughed at her. I said they can't do that. And they said they're gonna do it for two weeks. I couldn't believe it. I stayed open.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Good for you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Broke curfew, stayed open. The studio just went to hell. No one would come in, no masks, they wouldn't come in. And we're out of business. During the riots, that was the end of that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The riots, lovely riots.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which weren't really covered on the news, but LA burned. I've never seen police cars upside down on fire before, but I did that week and then that's when we left L. A so Forbidden Frontier is a great success. You guys really know your stuff. I look to you because I don't know anything. I'm just an entertainer. I look to you guys, you're the, you're the, like the reporters kicking in the doors, following this stuff. I watched you live stream a congressional, Congressional hearing. I think. What do you think's going on with disclosure?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh God. I think we're in a worse shape now than we ever have been, so. And it's just because I've been following this as a hobby, so I know lots of lit bits and pieces. But you'd have to definitely go to the Richard Dolan's of the world. Sure. To. For the expertise. Yeah, we, we covered that one and that was frustrating. Just all the stuff that has to go on in the skiff and I do believe, and it took me a while to get to this. I believe there is a faction in the government that really wants to let us know why. I don't know, I, I think there is some danger involved. I know there's the, the Stephen Greer point of view where this, that all the aliens, if they're out there, if they're us, whatever they are.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They're nice. I, I don't know if I can buy that. Maybe it's a possibility they could if they could have, if they had the power to wipe us out, they could have wiped us out already. They're certainly that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think they're out? Do you think it's extraterrestrials, aliens from other worlds? Or is it interdimensional? Is it future time traveling humans?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, yes, I think it's yes to all of those. I, I haven't decided yet. I go back and forth. It's definitely something. I just, I think interdimensional maybe is what I'm falling on now that they've been here for a long time. That they're in the water. That they're in the ocean. Yes, that's where I'm leaning. But that could change. That can change. But with that last government hearing where we just heard nothing in the same stuff over and over again, it just, it was discouraging. So if we, I don't know where the UFO topic goes now. I always thought if we get disclosure, it won't be from a government. And even if a government came out, if Trump or whatever president of another party came out and said, yep, we talked, we talked to Zorg from the Pleiades and we have a, like half of the country is not going to believe it. They're not just because of the politics of it. So it'll have to be something insane like the Phoenix lights, a UFO flying slowly over a big city where we can get multiple camera angles and then still half the population will think it's AI.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes, they will.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's, it's, it's in a bad place right now. Don't know where you go.

[Interviewer/Host]

You've been, you're into the ancient stuff. You've actually gone into the field.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Where have you been?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Been to Peru and Egypt so far. And we're gonna go to Japan, we're gonna go check out megalithic Japan.

[Interviewer/Host]

What, Yanaguni?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Well, no, not, I'm not going to be diving, but no, basically where the, where the palace is, you know, just so the polygonal stones. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna look at, there's, there's quarries, there's giant stuff on there. But going to Sacsy woman for the first time, I don't know if you've ever been there. It is mind blowing, utterly mind blowing. And it really, you know, I can hear all this stuff all day long and I can read all the Graham Hancock. But when I, when you go there and you see like, how in the hell did they do this? And you know, I don't think it was aliens. I always think it was humans. We were pretty industrious. I don't think it's that crazy to think that there was a civilization that was maybe as advanced, let's say, as the Romans were, you know, 10,000 years before the Romans or 8,000 years before the Romans that got wiped out during a apocalypse, basically during a cataclysm that looked like actually happened.

[Interviewer/Host]

It is looking like that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

With Gobekli Tepe and it looks like they were here. Great pyramid Egyptians built or found,

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I think built from direction, from plans, for lack of a better term, from blueprints from a previous culture.

[Interviewer/Host]

Interesting. Previous culture.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So maybe there was a foundation there already that they. I, I think the pyramids have been. Have been rebuilt.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's some.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Probably multiple times.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's some evidence kind of like.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Well, the Sphinx for sure. The Sphinx has been put back together. We were just there in Egypt and we saw, you know, the, the erosion evidence that Robert Schock and John Anthony west had exposed many, many years ago. Yeah, they're putting a wall over it.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're putting a wall over that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you went hard after Zahi was. After he was on Joe's show.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah, he was ridiculous.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think he's gatekeeping or do you think he's protecting his culture? There's a national identity to Egypt, to Egyptians, that's. That they're proud of and should be.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes. I think that that is the, I think that is the motivation behind some of the, the, the roadblocking we're seeing on some of the archaeology is they're trying to protect Peruvy. Peru's a lot cooler about it than. Than Egypt is. I got to be care. I, I don't. I, I don't trust the things Hawass says. I think he's a complete. I think he's shady as hell.

[Interviewer/Host]

It wasn't a good look for him on that show.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

And no, he, he did, he did more. He did more good for Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and he really did Robert Shock than anybody could have dreamt after that appearance. Always talking about his book, taking credit for stuff that he didn't discover. And, and some people who have met him said he's a complete nice guy. But I just. The impression I get is he is stopping progress there. And maybe, you know, tell us why. I think the most exciting thing is the labyrinth. The labyrinth in Egypt. Ben Van Kirkwyk, this is the Huara. Yeah. Has done some great work on this. Not that he discovered it, but he's done some Great work. Uncharted X has done some great work and great videos on these, and I think that would be the most exciting discovery of the 21st century. We need. And. And there's some politics behind it. It's getting flooded out. And there is. Because of the water is being diverted because they need to help agriculture.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which they do.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Which they do. They need to find a way to divert that water so we can drain it and figure out what's down there.

[Interviewer/Host]

And we don't have much time for that.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

No, we don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

And LIDAR has shown that there are. We know there's structures down there. And that labyrinth has been discussed by Ovid, Pliny the Elder, all these great historians. Strabo all visited and said it goes. They saw 3,500 rooms. It goes down three stories. It's there. Some have said there's a giant oval ring made of metal.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

In the center of it.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

The exact same size. Well, not exact, but close to the same size as the Tic Tac.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's right.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah. Yeah, It's. It's wild. And I would love to know. And why not? But, you know, Zahi seems to stop a lot of that stuff. And you would think, you know, it. Egypt relies a lot on tourism. That would. That would be a. I'd love to see that. I would. I'd go back. I'd go back. It was definitely worth going for. Sure. It was amazing seeing some of that stuff. Egypt's an interesting country, but you've got your media empire.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do we have?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, boy.

[Interviewer/Host]

We've got fnt, Forbidden Frontier. You got your videos. Neurotic Daily.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

What else are you doing?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, my God. I think that's pretty much wraps that. That's it.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a lot.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's a lot. That keeps me busy. I've got a couple editors, X Ray Girl, you know, Cord Black, Perry Chan, and, well, we. We. We do tours once in a while with Michael Collins from Wandering Wolf.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

So we'll be doing the Japan thing. That takes up all my time and,

[Interviewer/Host]

you know, you're living the dream now.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Absolutely. This is the greatest gig in the world.

[Interviewer/Host]

You said Daily Practice, Gratitude Daily.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's that? What's the mechanics of that? Because some days are shitty, man.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

That's when it's the most important.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what do I do? How do you do it?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, you catch yourself okay. I catch myself in a bad mood or feeling excessively negative about just like, really mundane stuff in life. And I just. It's. It's A mindset of turning it around by thinking of three. Three things that you're thankful for. And the first one could be, wow, I've got. There's a wife out there who loves me for some reason. I don't know why, but she does. Um, my kids like me. That's awesome. Not every. Not every kid loves their father and what. You know, and we have this amazing job like that, that, thanks to the support of so many brilliant people out there. It's definitely something we. We work at. Right. But it's like, I've said it before, it's like winning a lottery that you work really hard to get to.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a great way of describing it. You go into meetings.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Yes, Go to meetings.

[Interviewer/Host]

So. And we'll wrap up with this. There are people listening now because I know they're out there that are addicted, that are struggling, depression. They're in booze and drugs to cope. Can you tell them who the most important person in their life is?

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Oh, they are.

[Interviewer/Host]

They are.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

They are. They're the most important person in their lives. And. And people love them, people care about them, and it. The world can still benefit from them turning stuff around. It's never too late. It's never, ever too late. And if you try sobriety, I can promise you it will not be easy. But I can also promise you it will get better way faster. Your life will get better way faster than you think. And just give it a try, you know, people can try. I don't want to discourage anybody from getting sober any way they want, but definitely, whatever you do, make sure you go to meetings too. Really, they're free. And you'll find some of the most welcoming, forgiving people on earth in there and just make some friends, see what happens.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're an inspiration. You're the proof that it works. Gary, thanks for coming in and spending time. Cheers.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

It's been awesome. Thanks.

[Interviewer/Host]

Bye, everybody. That was Gary Buechler. I know. His name is spelled wrong. Everyone calls him Bouchler. Gary Beechler. The Prison Story, the Comic Shop, the Relapse, the Comeback, Doctor who, the Access Media. We covered a lot. Gary's book covers the old Folsom story in full. And it's a different kind of read than you'd expect from a pop culture guy if you only know him from Nerdrotic.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

Buckle up.

[Interviewer/Host]

The book is wild. I was gonna say in graphic. It's not that graphic, but it's pretty intense. So there's not much to analyze about what we talked about here because Gary is my friend. But here's a few nuggets. The Doctor who situation he described tracks with what actually happened. Series 11 opened huge, over 9 million viewers in the UK. Then the new showrunner retconned the Doctor's origin in series 12, rewriting 55 years of canon in a single episode. Ratings collapsed. The BBC eventually replaced everyone and brought the original showrunner back. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Gary mentioned Disney was racking up some serious losses. While Disney did report roughly 1.5 to $2.5 billion in content write downs in 2023, Gary's math is correct. Gary is controversial, but he probably shouldn't be. His grievances aligned with what a lot of people were already feeling. He was just one of the first people to call it out. The pattern he identified putting politics ahead of story showed up in Doctor who and Star Trek and Marvel and Star wars and Lord of the Rings and and now in Harry Potter he called it every time before most people were even paying attention. Gary's memoir is wading From Prison to YouTube on Amazon and it's a great read. His channel is nerdrotic. Friday night Tights goes live every Friday. Forbidden Frontier is where he covers Ancient mysteries, UAPs and Y files kind of stuff. It's probably better than the Y files. The links are down below. Until next time, be safe, be kind and know that you are appreciated. I was a little mumbly do another take Leave it in.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

I played Polybius and Architecture 51 a secret code inside the Bible said I would I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music so I'm singing like I should but then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth my friends and it never ends no it never ends and. I feel the crab cat and got stuck inside Mel's home with mkotruck I feel only 2 aware did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set or were the shadow beasts the Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man I'm told and his name was cold But I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish Handle fish on Thursday nights Wednesday J2 and the W it all through the night. The madman sightings and the solar storm still come to Agatha the secret city underground Mysterious number stations Planet Surf O2, Project Stargate and what the dark watchers found. Oh I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish head we'll fish on Thursday night swing they J2 and W to the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the troops of wipons on my feet all through the night. Next when they change you and.

[Interviewer/Host]

K love to dance.

[Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic)]

K loves to dance. Yeah. KY loves to dance on the dance floor because she is a camel and camels love to dance when the feeling is right. Always in time. Sa.