The Roswell Alien Interview | Your Soul Has Been Here Thousands of Times

Summary

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The Why Files: Operation Podcast

Episode: The Roswell Alien Interview | Your Soul Has Been Here Thousands of Times

Date: April 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores one of UFOlogy’s most enduring and mind-bending mysteries: the alleged "Roswell Alien Interview" of 1947. Framed through the story of Matilda McElroy, a US Army nurse who claimed to have telepathically communicated with a captured alien being, the episode investigates the strange intersections of government secrecy, intergalactic mythology, spiritual reincarnation, and the blurred line between fact and fiction. Host aj / Echo Fish and co-host Ken blend extensive research with humor and skepticism, inviting listeners to consider the origins, evidence, and psychological allure of the "prison planet" theory—while questioning its roots in both sci-fi and modern religion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Backstory: Matilda McElroy and the Alien Interview

[00:28–05:43]

• In 2007, researcher Lawrence Spencer receives a package of classified Roswell-era documents and a desperate letter from Matilda McElroy, now 84 and dying of cancer.
• McElroy recounts how, as a 509th Bomb Group flight nurse, she was summoned to examine a "survivor" of the 1947 Roswell crash:
  • Description: 3ft tall, gray skin, large head, no hair or visible organs—evoking the classic "Grey" alien.
  • The being—called “Aril” or “Errol”—communicated telepathically, expressing no distress and requiring only water.
• During six weeks of telepathic interview, Errol claims to be an officer of “the Domain,” a vast civilization spanning a quarter of the universe.

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2. The Domain, The Old Empire, and the Prison Planet

[05:43–09:59]

• Errol describes a millennia-long war between the benevolent Domain and the oppressive Old Empire.
• Key revelations:
  • Humans aren’t what they think—they are Isbes (immortal spiritual beings), far older and more powerful than remembered.
  • Earth, per Errol, is a prison planet, established by the Old Empire around 8,000 BC. Dissident souls are recycled in human bodies, memory-wiped and implanted with controlling beliefs.
  • Near-death experiences, spiritual guides, creation myths: All are systems/programs to sustain the prison and reinforce amnesia between lives.

Memorable Quote:

“You can, and you have for many years, but not since you were sent here.”
— Aril/Errol (Alien Being), explaining latent human abilities to Matilda [07:47]

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3. Galactic Corporations and Manufactured Life

[10:09–12:52]

• “Nothing on Earth is natural,” Errol says; life is designed and shipped to Earth by conglomerates such as “Bugs and Blossoms.”
  • Species, predator-prey relationships, and sexual reproduction are all deliberate—profits over science.
  • Historical geniuses (da Vinci, Mozart, Tesla) weren’t inventing, but "remembering" their Domain pasts, as reincarnated Isbes.
• Emotional resonance: Many listeners feel an uncanny familiarity with this narrative.

Notable Exchange:

“Every religion, every war, every system of power, all part of the prison design...”
— Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish) [10:09]

“So she's like Jason Bourne, but instead of karate, she got vibes.”
— Ken (Co-host) on Matilda’s recovered telepathic skills [14:44]

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4. The Lost Battalion and Personal Revelation

[12:20–14:53]

• Thousands of Domain officers were similarly captured, memory-wiped, and scattered among humanity as the “Lost Battalion.”
• Matilda’s feelings of guilt and recognition are (per Errol) remnants of her true identity as a Domain officer.
• Through Errol, Matilda begins regaining her cosmic memories—an event monitored and eventually interrupted by the military.

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5. Military Suppression, Fate of Errol and Matilda

[14:53–18:24]

• The military separates Matilda and Errol, coercing the alien through electroshock—believing it a means to force cooperation.
• Errol’s spiritual presence departs; what remains is only an inert shell.
• Matilda is silenced under threat of treason, but eventually sends her story to Spencer as a final act before her death.
• Her closing lament:

“I’ll be recycled through the amnesia process and stuck back into another baby body to start all over again without any memory of what went before. These documents must be published.”
— Matilda McElroy [18:24]

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6. Legacy, Publication, and Controversy Around the "Alien Interview" Book

[18:39–23:20]

• Spencer publishes Alien Interview in 2008; it becomes a UFO subculture sensation.
  • Listeners/reporters notice anachronisms: modern terminology, European date formats, and suspiciously prescient references (e.g., Jonas Salk).
  • Spencer claims editorial changes for clarity—but doubts remain.
  • All original documents are destroyed by Spencer.
• Was it fact, fiction, or something in between?

Highlights:

“He destroyed the evidence. That’s not what an innocent man does. That’s what a Clinton does.”
— Ken (Co-host) [23:04]

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7. Dissecting the Story’s Origins—Scientology Parallels

[23:20–26:55]

• UFO researchers (notably Bill Ryan of Project Avalon) point out that the cosmology mirrors—and in places directly copies—L. Ron Hubbard’s Scientology doctrines:
  • Immortal beings (Thetans/Isbes), memory-wipe, intergalactic war, “implant stations,” religions as control mechanisms.
• Spencer is revealed to be a longtime Scientologist; his previous work “The Oz Factors” also applied Hubbard’s principles.

Ken’s Quip:

“This is like an L. Ron Hubbard turducken.”
— Ken (Co-host) [26:42]

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8. Fact vs. Fiction—The Appeal of the Prison Planet

[26:55–29:25]

• The hosts analyze why such stories grip so many: They provide a reason for suffering, a secret identity, a hope of escape.
• Aj emphasizes that even if the mythology is constructed, the hope it engenders isn’t foolish—people crave meaning and agency.

Concluding Reflections:

“It’s a beautiful idea, but it’s made up. But maybe that’s the real lesson. Not that we got fooled, but that we were so ready to be. [...] If you treat every day like it’s your last, knowing you’re going to die isn’t a curse. It’s a gift. So treat it like one.”
— Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish) [29:01]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Human Condition:

  “The Domain has operated in this region of space. For trillions of years. Our civilization is ancient. Above all others, our only goal is to progress.”
  — Errol (Alien Being) [05:43]

• On Reincarnation Mechanisms:

  “It’s a recycling system disguised as an afterlife.”
  — Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish), summarizing Errol’s claims [08:44]

• Humor and Skepticism Interplay:

  “They put freethinkers in prison. It sounds like Facebook in 2021... Or Canada today. Okay, and England.”
  — Ken (Co-host) [08:37–08:44]

• Psychological Impact:

  “Some said the book didn’t feel like reading. It felt like remembering.”
  — Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish) [20:20]

• On Hope versus Deception:

  “That’s not gullibility. That’s hope. And maybe that’s enough.”
  — Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish) [29:01]

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic Description | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:28–01:54 | How Matilda McElroy’s story surfaces via Lawrence Spencer | | 02:05–03:15 | First encounter with the Roswell alien; physical description | | 03:58–04:26 | Telepathic communication with “Aril/Errol” begins | | 04:52–07:22 | Errol describes the Domain, the Old Empire, and the war | | 07:47–09:44 | Earth as "Prison Planet"; reincarnation process detailed | | 10:09–12:09 | Genetics, galactic corporations, and “Lost Battalion” | | 14:44–17:40 | Matilda’s abilities, breaking programming, military reaction | | 18:24–18:39 | Matilda’s final warning and wish | | 20:20–21:45 | Public scrutiny and puzzles in the Alien Interview story | | 23:20–26:55 | The Scientology connection and internal critique | | 26:55–29:25 | Why stories like these resonate; final reflections |

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Episode Takeaways

• The Roswell Alien Interview story is an entertaining, emotionally evocative mythos—blending military secrecy, epic cosmic conflict, and hidden spiritual potential.
• Despite apparent “realness,” the origins point toward creative borrowing from Scientology and other sources, underlining how easily belief can fill voids left by uncertainty.
• The heart of the episode is a meditation on why people are drawn to such stories—seeking a meaning for suffering and sense of hidden purpose, even if the tale is a work of fiction.

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Hosts:

• aj / Echo Fish (Main Narrator)
• Ken (Co-host/Commentator)

Final Message:
"Don’t waste time looking for a prison to blame or a cycle to break. Focus on joy right now. If you treat every day like it’s your last, knowing you’re going to die isn’t a curse. It’s a gift. So treat it like one."
— aj / Echo Fish [~29:01]

Transcript

[Sponsor/Ad Narrator]

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[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

In 2007, Lawrence Spencer found a thick envelope in his mailbox. It was full of military documents from the 1940s. Some were routine duty rosters and schedule memos. Some were stamped top secret. But all were from Roswell Army Airfield. Spencer also found transcripts of strange interviews. At first, they couldn't communicate with the subject. The military brought in translators, scientists, even cryptographers. But nothing worked. Finally, they learned the only way to communicate was telepathically. There are pages of predictions, warnings, strange technology, and a secret war. Nothing made sense. Then Spencer found a page that explained everything. It said Roswell AAF 509th Bomb Group alien interview, July 8, 1947. Matilda McElroy was a nurse in the US Army. And she had a secret. A secret that could get her killed. So she kept her mouth shut. Then she got cancer. With only a few weeks to live, Matilda packed up a stack of military documents and mailed them to Lawrence Spencer. She read his book about unexplained phenomena, the Oz Factors. She decided he was the only person who might take her seriously. Her letter was handwritten and desperate.

[Matilda McElroy (Alien Interviewee)]

I have kept this secret for 60 years. Now I'm 84 years old. I decided to tell this story because I think people should know the truth.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Her story started July 8, 1947. Matilda was a flight nurse with the Women's Army Air Force, assigned to the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell. When she got to base that morning, she knew something happened. There were armed guards at places that didn't have guards yesterday. Unfamiliar faces everywhere. Some wore uniforms, arms. Some wore suits. But all of them seemed nervous. Matilda was on her way to the station hospital when two MPs asked her to follow them. They were polite enough, but she knew it wasn't a request. A colonel met her at the entrance of a hangar. He told her that a craft came down in the desert. They recovered a survivor, but it wasn't responding to communication. Her job was to determine if it needed medical attention. Matilda thought it was strange he used the word it. She had no idea what it could be until they went into a dimly lit room at the back of the hangar. And there in the corner, sitting on a small chair, was a being about 3ft tall. Gray skin, large head. No hair. Three fingers on each hand. No nose, no mouth, no ears. Its body didn't look biological. More like a doll made of plastic or rubber. No internal organs, no reproductive system.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

A hairless plastic doll body with no reproductive system. Sounds like it was just.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Ken, please. I don't need Mattel's lawyers coming after me.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Fine. Fine, fine. Hairless plastic doll body with no reproductive system. Sounds like that thing you got hidden in your closet.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Okay, can I get back to you?

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Practically. Your doll kind of has a reproductive system.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

That's enough help. The men were treating it like a problem to solve. Matilda treated it like a patient. She walked over calmly and sat down next to it. No visible injuries, no bleeding. Whatever this thing was, it didn't seem to be in pain. She leaned forward to speak, and before she opened her mouth, a thought entered her mind. But the thought wasn't hers.

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

Not injured. The body I occupy is not a body such as yours. I do not require food or atmosphere, but I need water.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Matilda expected to be afraid, but she wasn't. The thoughts were calm, familiar even. She sensed this being was female and she wasn't dangerous. Matilda introduced herself with a thought, and the being responded the same way.

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

I am called Aril. You are the only one here who does not hide their thoughts from me.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

She interviewed Errol for six weeks. The transcripts filled hundreds of pages. Errol told Matilda about a war. A war that had been going on for thousands of years across thousands of galaxies. A war that most humans didn't know about and couldn't. Because, according to Errol, humans aren't what they think they are. Not even close.

[Commercial Voice (McDonald's Ad)]

K Pop Demon Hunters, Jaja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Trick's Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

No, it's our honor. Honor.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

It is our larger honor. No, really, stop.

[Commercial Voice (McDonald's Ad)]

You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

and participate in McDonald's while supplies last. Matilda spent six weeks telepathically communicating with an alien being who called herself Errol. Errol was an officer from the Domain, a civilization that controlled about one quarter of the physical universe. Not the galaxy, the universe.

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

The Domain has operated in this region of space. For trillions of years. Our civilization is ancient. Above all others, our only goal is to progress.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

The Domain operated on planets, moons and asteroids across thousands of galaxies. But they weren't alone. An older civilization called the Old Empire had controlled this region of space for a very long time. And the Old Empire ran things differently. Where the domain expanded through exploration, the Old Empire maintained control through force. Nuclear weapons, electronic warfare, and mind control on a planetary scale.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Mind control on a planetary scale? Well, I think the CIA just lit a cigarette and said, that usually doesn't happen that fast.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

The two civilizations fought for thousands of years. Eventually, the Domain won. The war was over. Or it should have been. The problem was the Old Empire had bases, equipment and automated systems scattered across thousands of worlds. Most shut down when the government fell, but some systems kept running on their own. And one of them was in our solar system. Errol was sent to investigate. Her craft was hit by an electrical discharge that knocked out navigation. She crashed outside Roswell. Matilda asked how she survived the crash. Why wasn't she injured or in pain?

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

I am an Isbe. An immortal, spiritual being. An Isbe exists as pure awareness. We can create, move and perceive across any distance. We only use physical form as a tool.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

So bodies are optional. Errol's people put one on for a mission, then took it off when the job was done. The gray body sitting in that chair at Roswell was just a vehicle. Aril explained that every conscious being in the universe is an immortal, spiritual being. Even humans. But Matilda said humans aren't immortal. And they obviously can't project their consciousness anywhere in the universe.

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

You can, and you have for many years, but not since you were sent here.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

That's when Errol explained the truth about Earth. It wasn't a planet. It was a prison. Errol said all humans are Isbes. And we're traveling the universe as pure consciousness for thousands or even millions of years. We even have memories of our infinite lives. But we're cut off from our abilities. And because Earth is a prison. The Old Empire built the prison around 8,000 BC and started filling it. Political dissidents, artists, free thinkers. Anyone the regime considered dangerous. The Old Empire called them untouchables. That's us.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

They put freethinkers in prison. It sounds like Facebook in 2021.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

It does.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Or Canada today. Okay, and England.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

I got it. Billions of us dumped on a backwater planet at the edge of the galaxy. Placed into fragile bodies that suffer, age and die. Death should set the spirit free, but a shield around the solar system prevents escape. If Earth was the prison. The shield was the fence. Errol described each step the way an engineer describes a machine. When a person dies, the shield detects the spirit and pulls it into a processing station. There, memories are wiped. Not just of the last life, but of every previous life. Gone. Then the old Empire runs a second program. Hypnotic implants. They project images directly into the spirit's awareness. A tunnel of light. Dead loved ones, Spiritual guides. That's why all near death experiences sound the same across cultures. It's in the programming. None of it's real. It's a recycling system disguised as an afterlife. Then memories are implanted. Creation stories and moral codes designed to trigger guilt and obedience. Once the spirit is wiped and reprogrammed, it's sent back to Earth in a new infant body. Die, forget, return. This was control that spanned across lifetimes.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Control across lifetimes. Sounds like my ex wife's wet dream.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Which ex wife?

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Oh, treat them. Perpetuity is their love language.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Every religion, every war, every system of power, all part of the prison design. Even rapid biological aging is a containment tool. The domain conquered the old Empire thousands of years ago. But the Earth prison operates on its own. Its systems are still active. But Errol said there is a way out. You have to do the one thing the entire prison is built to prevent. You have to remember, Errol said, the real history behind the prison, the planet, everything was much more complicated than we thought. We were part of an intergalactic space opera and didn't know it. Biological life on Earth wasn't natural. None of it. Every species on the planet was designed, manufactured and shipped here by galactic corporations billions of years ago. One company and Errol used this name was called Bugs and Blossoms. They made insects and flowers. Another company built the larger animals. And these weren't science experiments or research. They were products. Even predator prey relationships were a marketing scheme. If your company sold gazelles, you also sold lions. More species sold more profit. Sexual reproduction was a cost cutting measure. Instead of constantly replacing organisms when they died, you just let them replace themselves. And Earth's greatest minds weren't homegrown either. They were reincarnated ISBs. Their genius was bleed through from their previous lives as some of the finest officers in the domain. Leonardo da Vinci sketched flying machines and submarines 400 years before anyone could build them. Mozart composed complete symphonies as a child. Nikola Tesla built machines the rest of the world wouldn't understand for decades. Errol said they weren't inventing, they were remembering.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Justice Vasaglieri.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

What?

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Yeah, Amadeus.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Oh, right. F. Murray Abraham was great in that.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Yeah, but his name is unfortunate. It just sounds like someone is mad at Mary Abraham.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Thousands of domain officers had been captured and dumped on Earth over the centuries. Trained pilots, engineers, specialists. Errol called them the Lost Battalion. Matilda felt a sudden wave of emotion. Guilt, anger, resentment. Emotions she couldn't explain. Errol sensed this and placed a gentle thought in Matilda's mind.

[Aril/Errol (Alien Being)]

The feelings you are having are understandable. This is because you know I am telling you you the truth. You know this because you lived it.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

According to Errol, one of the trapped officers of the Lost Battalion was the nurse sitting across the table.

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[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

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[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Eight thousand years ago, the old Empire was gone. But the prison system in our solar system was still running autonomously. The Domain deployed a specialized battalion to shut it down. 3,000 officers and engineers built a base high in the Himalayas. The mountains kept them out of sight. Their mission was not to interfere with humans. Their mission was to free them. They spent months mapping the solar system. They identified the processing stations, scanning equipment, and old Empire technology that was hidden for years. The officers finally had a plan to take the system down. Then they were detected. The automated defenses didn't see them as citizens of the Domain. They were seen as escaped inmates. All 3,000 were captured and processed. They were wiped, reprogrammed, then loaded into human bodies. The officers were sent into the general population. The Domain called them the Lost Battalion. And they are still here, walking among us with no idea who they really are. Matilda was one of the captured officers. Her ability to communicate telepathically wasn't just random talent. It was training that bled through. The amnesia.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Training that bled through. So she's like Jason Bourne, but instead of karate, she got vibes.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Telepathy.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Potato, potato.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Her instinct to approach the alien with compassion. Her sense of something familiar. Her knowledge that Errol wasn't a threat. These were echoes of her former life. The Domain searched for the Lost Battalion for thousands of years, using equipment to detect spiritual energy. But centuries of reincarnation scattered that energy across billions of lifetimes. Identification was almost impossible. Matilda was the breakthrough. Through her contact with Errol, she Started recovering memories of her original identity. She saw images of spacecraft. She understood technology she couldn't explain in English. She recognized the techniques the prison used to keep her asleep. For the first time in 8,000 years, a captured Domain officer knew who she really was. But that created a problem, because now the military knew it too. Over six weeks, Matilda and Errol rebuilt something the prison had destroyed 8,000 years ago. A connection between two Domain officers. But Errol shared knowledge that put them both at risk. The military recorded every word Matilda said. But what they couldn't record was the telepathy itself. The communication that happened before Matilda spoke out loud. The stenographer got what Matilda chose to share. The rest was invisible. That arrangement worked as long as the military trusted Matilda. Eventually, that trust ran out. On August 12, they separated Matilda from Errol. They wanted the alien on their own terms. No nurse, no telepathy. But Errol wouldn't cooperate. So the military decided to use force. Matilda watched from behind the glass partition. They brought in electroshock equipment and attached probes to Errol's head. They started low. When she didn't respond, they increased the current. Electroshock. The military thought they were innovating. It was the same tool the old Empire used to wipe memories. Errol didn't resist. Didn't react. She looked at Matilda one last time through the glass. And then she was gone. One second awareness behind those large eyes and the next, nothing. Just a lifeless gray doll on a table. The military spent hours trying to bring her back. But nothing worked. And Matilda knew nothing would. She wasn't sad that Errol was gone. She was relieved. And the military noticed. Whatever Errol shared with Matilda during those six weeks whether it was written down or not, could never be revealed. She was forced to sign documents swearing absolute secrecy. If she ever spoke a word, she'd be convicted of treason and put to death. So she signed.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

1947. The government covers up Roswell. They silence a telepathic nurse. Jackie Robinson breaks the color barrier. Big year for black ops. What?

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Eventually, Matilda returned to civilian life. Over the years, she had brief telepathic contact with Arrow. She was able to piece together memories of her old life as a Domain officer. She understood the technology and the techniques the prison used to keep us trapped. She knew how to help. But time was running out. She was 83. Her body was failing. Soon she would die and lose her knowledge of the Domain and the old Empire. She would lose her ability to break the cycle. By 2007, she was out of time. The package she sent to Lawrence Spencer was a desperate and final attempt.

[Matilda McElroy (Alien Interviewee)]

I'll be recycled through the amnesia process and stuck back into another baby body to start all over again without any memory of what went before. These documents must be published.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

In 2008, Spencer released the transcripts as Alien Interview. It became one of the most famous alien contact cases in UFO history. But Matilda didn't live long enough to see it. She died before the book was released. The system that imprisoned her for thousands of years had pulled her back in, wiped, reprogrammed and sent back to Earth. So there's someone out there right now who has Matilda's memories and the knowledge of thousands of lifetimes. She would be about 17 or 18 years old. She might be working a summer job, studying for finals, stressing about college. Most nights, she scrolls through her phone, watching videos, texting with friends. But on those rare, quiet nights, I bet she has a strange feeling that she's part of something bigger, that she's important, that she has a purpose that she can't explain. She has no idea that somewhere, buried deep in her consciousness, underneath the homework and the drama and the phone that never stops, she has the knowledge to save the world.

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[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Alien interview was a hit. People couldn't put it down. Some said the book didn't feel like reading. It felt like remembering. People wanted to know more about Matilda. What was her life like after Roswell? Does she have children or grandchildren? And the question everyone asked, who is Matilda now? In what body, where? And if they could find her, they could help her remember. If they work together, maybe we could finally be free of the prison. The first thing they looked for was her service record. It didn't exist. The military had no record of Matilda O' Donnell McElroy. But according to the book, she changed her name and was put into witness protection. She couldn't be tracked by name, but maybe there were clues in the transcripts. And there were. But there were also small problems. The transcript used words like computer and database. In 1947, those terms weren't common until the 1960s, the date stamps used European formatting day first, then month instead of American military style. An army nurse writing classified reports wouldn't format dates this way. But Spencer said he edited some of the material for clarity but didn't change the content. So it's possible his additions included some modern language. Then a reader caught something in chapter 11. In an interview dated July 9, 1947, Errol mentioned Jonas Salk as an example of great human genius. Salk was alive in 1947, but he wasn't that well known. He was just a medical researcher. He didn't become famous until 1955, when he developed the polio vaccine. But maybe Errol had a different concept of time. She was pure consciousness who could travel anywhere in the universe. Maybe she could move through time, too. Most people were satisfied with these explanations, but some weren't. The real problems began when researchers cross referenced Arrow's claims against other books. All the evidence was pointing in the same direction. Lawrence Spencer made the whole thing up, but the truth is, he didn't. Readers were outraged. Was the book fact or fiction? Did Errol exist? Was Matilda a real person? Well, Spencer said Matilda was real. He even spoke to her on the phone for 20 minutes. She died a few months later. Now, that seemed too convenient. Skeptics wanted to see the documents Matilda sent, but Spencer destroyed them. The transcripts, the letters, all of it. I burned all the original documents. I don't want to spend the rest of my life being hounded by UFO researchers or government agents.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

He destroyed the evidence. That's not what an innocent man does. That's what a Clinton does.

[Background Vocalist / Chorus]

Whoa.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

What is our rule?

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

We don't joke about the Clinton, right? Did he also smash his computer with a hammer?

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

That's enough.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Sorry, sorry. I couldn't help myself. Go on, go on.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

So the witness was dead and the only physical evidence was destroyed. Spencer was now in full defensive mode. He went on radio shows and said the interview really happened. He corrected anyone who said he wrote the book. He was only the editor. He just published what Matilda sent him. But to put any final doubts to rest, Spencer wrote a sequel. The book Domain Expeditionary Force Rescue Mission came out in 2011. It was labeled as science fiction. This time, Matilda is rescued from the prison planet and back on active duty with the domain. Same characters, same mythology. Immortal spiritual beings trapped in physical bodies, given amnesia and recycled into new lives. These were common sci fi tropes. So were implants, mind control, memory wipes. These details caught the attention of Bill Ryan, who went through alien interview line by line. Ryan was a UFO researcher and the founder of Project Avalon. The more Ryan studied alien interview, the more familiar it sounded. Doll bodies, implant stations between lives, the galactic war between rival civilizations, the prison planet, religions designed as alien control tools, all described as a space opera. These concepts weren't unique, they were stolen in some cases word for word, and Bill Ryan knew exactly where they came from. The Church of Scientology.

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[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Spencer's book thanked Wikipedia in the acknowled. He said the material relied heavily on its page about Roswell. Thanking Wikipedia is not a good sign, and in 2000 he sent an email to Graham Hancock where he admitted he'd been a Scientologist for 31 years. He said a good deal of his earlier book applied the principles of L. Ron Hubbard. Now he was talking about the Oz Factors, but that tells the whole story. Spencer spent most of his life as a Scientologist. His first book applied Hubbard's principles through the lens of the wizard of Oz. His second book applied the same principles through the lens of Roswell. And remember, his first book, the Oz Factors, was the book Matilda. Read it Was the reason she chose Spencer as the one person who might take her seriously. The origin story of the entire case traced back to a book based on Scientology.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

And so the whole thing is a conspiracy based on a religion, based on a sci fi writer. This is like an L. Ron Hubbard turducken. I don't see where's Shelley?

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

But choosing Roswell for his next book was a good idea. The UFO community spent decades collecting real testimony from real people who were actually at Roswell. Military officers, intelligence agents, morticians, nurses. People who came forward at the end of their lives with nothing to gain and plenty to lose. Those witnesses exist. Their stories overlap in ways that are hard to dismiss. Spencer used that real mystery as his foundation. He built fiction on top of facts that makes it feel real and grounded. And look. Millions of people love this book. The reviews are amazing. People describe reading it in one sitting. More than a few said the story matched their memories. One person called it the most important book ever written. These people felt something. The source material was fake, but the emotion was real. The prison planet idea does something most explanations of life don't do. It tells you your suffering has a cause. Your limitations are artificial. You're not a random biological accident on an unremarkable rock. You're an immortal being with suppressed power, trapped by forces beyond your control. And someday, if enough people wake up, the prison walls come down. It's a beautiful idea, but it's made up. But maybe that's the real lesson. Not that we got fooled, but that we were so ready to be. Spencer succeeded because people want a reason for why life is so hard. A guy who lost his wife to cancer reads this book and thinks maybe she's still out there somewhere, trapped in the cycle, just waiting to remember. A kid who never fit in thinks maybe she's something more than what the world tells her she is. That's not gullibility. That's hope. And maybe that's enough. We all know how this ends. Nobody gets out alive. And knowing that can feel like a curse. But it also means that every day you get is important. So don't waste time looking for a prison to blame or a cycle to break. Focus on joy right now. If you treat every day like it's your last, knowing you're going to die isn't a curse. It's a gift. So treat it like one. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. My name is aj. That's Echo Fish.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Yeah, I'm saying hello telepathically right now. Hello, nobody.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

This has been the why Files. If you had fun or learned anything, I'd appreciate it. If you can like subscribe, comment, share. That stuff really helps the channel. And like most topics we cover here, today's was recommended by you. So if there's a story you'd like to see or learn more about, go to thewifiles.com tips or send us an email. Hit us up on Discord in the chat on YouTube. You can find us in a bunch of ways. And remember, the why Files is also a podcast you can take us on the road. About twice a week I post deep dives into the stories we cover here on the channel. I also post these stories over there and I also post episodes that wouldn't be allowed on the video platforms. Although we just switched to video on the podcast. That's kind of cool. I don't know why I'm musing when I'm supposed to be reading the prompter. Sorry about that human moment. Anyway, if you are listening on an audio platform, it would be a huge help if you hit thumbs up or like or follow whatever whatever the buttons are that really makes a big difference. Now if you need more waterfalls in your life, check out our Discord. We've got over 100,000 people over there and they're into the same weird stuff we are here. So with all those people 24 7, there's somebody hanging out, having a good time. It's a supportive community, it's a lot of fun and it's free to join. Speaking of 24. 7, check out our 24. 7 stream on the Y Files backstage over there. We run episodes back to back with some fun, unique content in between. Actually, the live chat is more entertaining than the videos. And if you enjoy the stories I tell on the Y Files, check out my other show on the channel called the Basement. It's a conversation show by a podcast where I chat with interesting people behind these episodes. Some of them you know, some you don't, but they're all people I find fascinating, experts on topics and like Knights Templar moon landing. I had a physicist from Cernon the other day and if there's someone that you want to see on the show, let me know. I'm always on the hunt for good guests. Special thanks to our patrons who made this channel happen and make every episode possible. I couldn't do any of this without the support of my Patreon community. So thank you and if you'd like to support the channel, keep us going and join this wacky community. Become a member On Patreon for as little as three bucks a month, you get access to perks like videos early with no commercials, including the basement exclusive merch and two private live streams every week just for you. And on those, the whole Yfiles team is on the stream, everybody's cameras on and you can turn your camera on up, up on stage, ask a question if you want to know more about an episode or talk about anything you like. It's a great way to get to know us as people. Another way to support the channel is grab something from the wifile store.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Grab a hang on my T shirt. Oh, one of these fistable coffee bikes you can stick your fist in. Or if you got one of plastic toy dials say that the human has this class. You can. You can stick to its fist in there too. I'm not here to judge you.

[Background Vocalist / Chorus]

Well, grab.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

What do you squeeze you. Oh look how adorable is you gotta get yourself one of these squeezy animal targets.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

But if you're gonna buy merch, make sure you become a member on YouTube. Hear me out. YouTube members get 10 off everything in the wildfile store forever. You get a new code every month. So if you're gonna go over there and spend 40 bucks on t shirts and fistable coffee mugs, if you know, you know if you're gonna do that, become a member, get the code and it pays for itself. And if you want to cancel, that's totally fine. I don't keep any of that money. It goes to the team. So the membership is a way to save you money, not make me money.

[Ken (Co-host/Commentator)]

Yeah, keep that secret close to your dorsal finger.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

Those are the plugs. My throat is sore from all those. But I think they're gonna get longer every week. I appreciate it if you stuck around this far. Until next time, be safe, be kind and know that you are appreciated.

[Background Vocalist / Chorus]

I would. I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music so I'm singing like I should but then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends and it never ends I know it never end. I feel the crap cat I got stuck inside mel's home with mk ultra of being only 2 aware did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set I would shadow people there. Smiling man, I'm told and his name was cold But I can't believe I'm

dancing with the fish handle fish on Thursday night Wednesday J. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth so the W all through the night.

The mothman sightings and the solar storm still come to Agatha the secret city underground mysterious number stations planets surfboard to project Star game and what the dark watchers found.

Me so I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish handle fish on Thursday nights with Day J when the wi fi all through the night. Thursday nights when they change you and weapons I'm a bit off to the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth so one balls on repeat all through the L. Because she is a camel Camels love to dance when the feeling is right Always in time

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love.

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Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya.

[Main Narrator (aj / Echo Fish)]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.