For a long time, it was easy for some to dismiss the wine world that Tyler Balliet and Morgan First have spent the last 20 years carving out for themselves as frivolous or unserious.

Second Glass, the zine Tyler started while working one of her first wine jobs, was a far cry from the glossy or stodgy wine publications that ruled the day. Their blockbuster tasting events, Wine Riot, sold out cities across the country but were often overlooked by the wine establishment in favor of posh Food & Wine festivals or a leading critic’s “master class.” Their Rosé Mansion pop-up experience was packed day in and day out by an audience much of the wine world didn’t realize it needed… until it was almost too late.

Now, fresh off Tyler’s James Beard Award nomination for her book The Rebel School of Wine, mainstream wine is finally listening.

We sat down with Tyler and Morgan during a California tour that included speaking engagements at the DTC Wine Symposium (perhaps you’ve heard of it) and the Unified Wine & Grape Symposium, along with a party with friend of the pod Stacy Buchanan of Blood of Gods fame. We talked about how they’ve been working to make wine more fun, more colorful, and more accessible since long before those were buzzwords in the industry.

We also reminisced about the chaos of the Wine Riots, where they graciously included Winery Sixteen 600 back when Sam was as wet behind the ears as the ink on the first Stanley Mouse labels.

Most importantly, we talked about how, despite the setbacks they’ve faced, Tyler and Morgan have continued to succeed by putting their heads down and believing in their vision. It might look like its all rainbows and mirrorballs from the outside, but underneath it all are two people deeply knowledgeable about wine and completely dedicated to sharing it with anyone curious enough to show up.

This one’s a fun ride. Bust out a sticker book, some colored pencils, grab a couple bottles you love and buckle up. [Ep 403]