Podcast Summary: The Word on Fire Show — WOF 480: Are We Required to Love Everyone Equally?

Host: Matthew Patrucyk
Guest: Bishop Robert Barron
Date: March 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores a surprisingly contentious question: Are Christians required to love everyone equally? Bishop Robert Barron joins host Matthew Patrucyk to disentangle the nuances of Christian love, discussing distinctions between types and intensities of love, the scriptural commandments on love, what it means to "love one's neighbor," and how these affect our moral obligations, both personal and political. The episode also clarifies misconceptions arising in current debates about love, especially regarding social justice, political decisions, and family obligations, by examining classical theological teachings from Augustine, Aquinas, and Catholic tradition.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining Christian Love (02:48 – 08:04)

• What is love in Christian teaching?
  Bishop Barron explains Aquinas’ definition:

  "Love is to will the good of the other. That's Thomas Aquinas definition in the case of loving God...The love of neighbor is correlate to that." (02:48, Bishop Barron)

• Loving God vs. Loving Neighbor:
  The two are inseparably linked; loving God naturally leads us to love what God loves—namely, all creation.

• Different Types and Intensities of Love:
  Although we are commanded to love everyone, this does not mean every love relation—between spouses, friends, family, enemies—is identical.

  "We don't love always with the same intensity. We don't love in the same way. ... [God] gives goods at different levels of intensity." (03:58, Bishop Barron)

• God’s Unequal Love:
  Drawing from Aquinas (and referencing Cardinal George), Barron explains that God "doesn’t love everybody equally"—He wills different goods to different beings (e.g., humans vs. angels, Mary vs. Francis George).

  "God in that sense loved the Blessed Mother more than he loves Prince George or loves me or you. ... He gives goods at different levels of intensity." (05:47, Bishop Barron)

• Self-love and Enemy-love:
  Self-love, properly understood, is simply willing one’s good, as in caring for one’s health or safety. Loving one’s enemy is the test of pure, disinterested charity:

  "When you love your enemy, there's something beautiful about that because he's not gonna repay you." (07:02, Bishop Barron)

• Christian Love vs. Secular Love:
  The modern notion that loving someone means always affirming them is critiqued:

  "No, to love your neighbor is sometimes to say no. It’s to get in their way. ...We've sentimentalized it where it's affirming someone's feelings. That’s not love." (08:14, Bishop Barron)

2. Loving God: Unique and Absolute (09:08 – 11:18)

• Is love of God categorically different?
  Yes. Love for God is absolute and distinct, not simply a matter of intensity:

  "No, it would be something that's qualitatively different because you love God first and above all things." (09:18, Bishop Barron)

• Scriptural stories (e.g., Abraham and Isaac, Thomas More) drive home the point: even the highest earthly love is subordinate to the love of God.

3. Who Is My Neighbor? (11:18 – 12:56)

• Defining ‘Neighbor’ The parable of the Good Samaritan is central:

  "Everyone's my neighbor and I should love everyone in the world. But is there someone who's in my sort of scope of influence and whom I can help, who's in need? I think that's the neighbor Jesus is talking about." (11:30, Bishop Barron)

• The term ‘neighbor’ is inclusive but also points to those within our moral reach—those in need we are able to help.

4. The Ordo Amoris: The Order of Love (12:56 – 20:37)

• What is Ordo Amoris? The classic doctrine from Augustine and Aquinas says that there is a natural "order of love"—a hierarchy based on proximity (not just physical, but relational and moral).

  "Should I love with the same level of intensity absolutely everybody in the world? Well, I think, obviously, no..." (13:24, Bishop Barron)

• Practical Implications:
  Obligations begin with those closest to us (family, then community, country, etc.), but there are exceptions (e.g., immediate need of a stranger):

  "If there is someone even whom you don't know, but who presents himself to you in immediate and great need, do you suspend the ordo amoris to help that person? And the answer is yes. So that's where the good Samaritan comes in." (18:15, Bishop Barron)

• Equal Moral Regard vs. Equal Treatment:
  All humans have equal dignity, but this does not mandate identical actions toward all:

  "Everyone in the world is someone whom I should love absolutely. But then we have to ask these sort of prudential questions of, well, what's the order of my love? What am I capable of doing?" (18:15, Bishop Barron)

• When radical need interrupts, immediate obligations may temporarily suspend the usual order of love.

5. Balancing Ordo Amoris with Good Samaritan Ethics (20:37 – 26:54)

• When is it justified to sacrifice goods for distant others?
  Prudence and context matter. Generally, family obligations come before obligations to strangers, except in cases of extraordinary need or under the call of higher goods (e.g., love of God, as in martyrdom).

• Misapplication of Good Samaritan Story:

  "It's the great Catholic both-and, not the either-or. I would not pose that as an either-or because Aquinas doesn't and Augustine doesn't. It's the moment where sometimes the ordo amoris is suspended for the sake of immediate need." (22:40, Bishop Barron)

• Relevant to Political and Social Debates:
  Applies at both personal and national levels (e.g., immigration policy, social obligations):

  "So, are there wealthier nations and they have a right to their wealth and all that?...But in the use of what they have, is there a moral obligation to care for less prosperous countries? Yeah, sure there is." (24:03, Bishop Barron)

• Catholic teaching rejects both hyper-individualism/exclusivity and unrestrained universalism.

6. Evangelical Power of Properly Ordered Love (26:54 – 27:50)

• Attractiveness to Others:

  "How these Christians love one another. ... Show it vibrantly. Show it at all these different levels, and that will draw people to you." (27:08, Bishop Barron)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 02:48 | Barron | "Love is to will the good of the other. That's Thomas Aquinas' definition." | | 03:58 | Barron | "We don't love always with the same intensity. ... God gives goods at different levels of intensity." | | 07:02 | Barron | "When you love your enemy, there's something beautiful about that because he's not gonna repay you." | | 08:14 | Barron | "[We've] sentimentalized [love] where it's affirming someone's feelings. That's not love." | | 09:18 | Barron | "No, [the love of God] would be something that's qualitatively different because you love God first and above all things." | | 13:24 | Barron | "Should I love with the same level of intensity absolutely everybody? ... Well, I think, obviously, no." | | 18:15 | Barron | "If there is someone even whom you don't know, but who presents himself to you in immediate and great need, do you suspend the ordo amoris...yes." | | 22:40 | Barron | "It's the great Catholic both-and, not the either-or... sometimes the ordo amoris is suspended for the sake of immediate need." | | 24:03 | Barron | "Private property is a legitimate thing... you have to be hyper concerned about, well, what's the common good?" | | 27:08 | Barron | "How these Christians love one another. That's what Tertullian remarked... brought people to the church." |

Listener Question: Forgiveness & Letting Go of Bitterness (27:50 – 29:31)

• Question: How do we actually forgive and let go of bitterness?
• Bishop Barron’s Insight:
  Forgiveness involves bearing the burden of the other, not trying to "fix" one’s feelings directly, but instead enacting gestures of reconciliation:

  "Do something, I would say, to bear the burden of the other. I think that's how you forgive." (28:22, Bishop Barron)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – 01:32: Introduction and context of debate
• 02:09 – 03:51: Definitions of love in scripture and theology
• 05:22 – 06:14: Does God love everyone equally?
• 07:02 – 08:14: Loving enemies vs. loving friends/family
• 09:08 – 11:18: Loving God as qualitatively unique
• 12:56 – 13:24: The order of love and practical outworking
• 18:15 – 22:40: When to suspend the ordo amoris; Good Samaritan model
• 24:03 – 26:54: Political/social implications; common good vs. private property
• 27:50 – 29:31: Forgiveness and overcoming bitterness

Conclusion

Bishop Barron articulates that while Christians are called to love everyone, this is not an undifferentiated or impossible command. The "order of love" means we maintain special obligations to those close to us, but we also remain open to the demands of urgent need, following the example of the Good Samaritan. This nuanced view—deeply rooted in theological tradition—clarifies current moral and political debates and provides a compelling witness to the Christian faith in the world.