← Them Before Us
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to Them Before Us on American Family Radio where we strive to put children before adults. Our goal is to educate the public on a child centric perspective of marriage and family and represent the rights of children on policy matters. Now here's the host and founder of Them Before Us, Katie Foust.
- [00:21]
B
Welcome to Them Before Us Radio. I'm your host, Katie Foust, here with my training director, Jenn Friesen. We're gonna hit some of the trending news items that caught our eye over the last week. But as we are going to start with a little bit of Bible time. And you get whatever it is that I am reading and what I've been reading over the last couple weeks is reading through the Bible chronologically with my 18 year old son before he heads to school in the morning. And it's a big chunk. We don't always get through his reading list because you know when you're doing it in a year, you've got like three to four chapters a day. We can usually get through one and then we spend some time discussing and then he grinds out the other three chapters before bed. But it was interesting. He asked me a question that I was like, I actually don't know if scripture gives an explicit answer. So Jen, I want to hear your thoughts on the why behind this too. But you know, he spent all this time reading about the Hebrew captivity in Egypt and then the mass of Exodus and then the miraculous signs that God uses to get the Hebrews out of Egypt through the Jordan provisions while they are in the wilderness. Then you have to listen to all the idol worship and the grumbling and the complaining. And you know, the fact that Moses is just like the load bearing wall for all of these ungrateful people and over and over and over he has to parent them. And then he makes one mistake. You know, God says, strike the rock. And he's like, I'm going to strike this rock. I'm going to strike this rock. And he hits it twice instead of once. And then God says, all right, no prom land for you. And so Josh, my son came to me and he goes, doesn't seem very fair to me, Mom. Why wouldn't God just forgive him and say, I forgive you, go into the promised land. Everybody makes mistakes. No big deal here. Moses has been so faithful, he has absorbed so much of the discontent. He's been an intercessor and a priest for this ungrateful people. And, and here he does, he makes one little error and God says, that's it. You don't get to see this thing that you've been longing to see. So he said, why is that? And obviously the answer is because he disobeyed God. But why would that level of disobedience, which looks fairly minor to us, why would that be such a disqualifier as it relates to a reward, A reward that Moses had been earnestly seeking and honestly had kind of put his time in when it came to, you know, receiving that reward. So my answer to that, and Jen, I want to hear yours, is the farther you go to the top, the more responsibility, the more authority that you have, the smaller your margin for error, because there are so many people that are underneath you. There are so many people who are counting on you to get it right, to get it exactly right, and usually do it with a smile that when you make a misstep, it's not just you that pays for it. Everybody underneath you is going to pay for it. And it's the reason why we give elders double honor, because there is so much that is riding on their leadership and authority. There is a burden that goes with that kind of responsibility. But then also on the other side of things, it really does send a warning. I think if you are the head of something, the head of a home, the head of a church, the head of a company, the head of an organization, the head of a nation, the head of a state, the higher you go in authority, the smaller your margin for error and because the implications are so much greater. So I read something like that, and I shiver. I really do think I must watch every word. I need to watch every step. I cannot be careless about anything. How close am I, adhering to the unbending principles of integrity and character and consistency and honoring God even when it doesn't make sense or when my temper is raging out of control. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, Jen. Why is it that you think that such a harsh punishment, seemingly harsh punishment, was meted out for what seemed like such a minor offense?
- [04:46]
C
Yeah, that's such an interesting thought. It does seem like he had the mantle of authority given to him directly by God. At some level, it indicates he's directly conversing with God about what to do. Right. In so many different instances. And I think in the text, this is like the Numbers one, right? He's told very specifically, take your staff, assemble the congregation. You and Aaron tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. And Moses and Aaron, gather everyone together. Hear now, you rebels, shall we bring water for you out of this rock and he hits it twice. And so some of the commentary I just found said at some level he's acting like, I'm the one who brings you water. Oh, you guys are rebelling and you're having a bad attitude. Well, look what I can do. And there might have been a moment of him taking credit and dishonoring God. God gives him this very simple command and instead of following it acts like, you know, my, my act will bring water for you. And I agree with what you said. It's. It doesn't feel like what God asked him to do was too complex to do and then he couldn't do it and then he lost the promised land. It was actually a seemingly very simple thing to do that then he was disobedient in front of everyone and misrepresented God and took credit. In a sense, I think that's what happens to much later Herod somewhere he's an evil guy, but it's when he receives their worship and they act like he's God and he likes, like, yeah, actually I am kind of like God. Then God strikes him down and he gets eaten by worms or whatever. So it does kind of seem like for a holy God there's a level of you're not going to pretend that you're God and you're taking my place in front of others. I wonder too, does, does everyone know in that moment that he disobeyed and loses that privilege? I don't remember that in the text. If he knows right away.
- [06:51]
B
Yeah, it's interesting because the things that make me the most angry is people that say they speak for God and mischaracterize him or misdirect people. Like, I have this animalistic response. I have this, how dare you? I'm going to cut you. And so I don't have that with very many people. Like not with like the blue haired barista who is like, they, them. I'm like, oh, let's be friends. Like, I really, really like you. But when somebody that is in charge of a church or a denomination or a seminary, who gets God wrong, usually for political reasons, I am like, I will burn you down. Like, how dare you? How dare you misidentify God's character. How dare you contort and distort his very clear commands. Especially you know, these days on like gender and sexuality. How dare you? Like, I just rage about it. So yeah, maybe that was it. Maybe it was much more of like, I'm standing in the place of God. I am, I am communicating that I am your provider. And it's not God. That that could be. That would be more than a slight offense.
- [08:03]
C
Well, like you're saying, our sense of justice gets so riled up when you consider a shepherd. That's what a pastor is supposed to be. But a shepherd who intentionally leads sheep to slaughter is. It's the antithesis of what you want a shepherd to be. Shepherds are supposed to lay down their life for their sheep, take care of you, go to great lengths to keep you safe, meaning they'll speak a harsh word to you or a hard word to you to protect you and keep you away from the cliff. And that's why we get so angry when we see people who've been called to leadership or have taken leadership on themselves, leading people we love, and especially we're talking about children, leading them astray, leading them to practices, beliefs, ideologies that lead to death.
- [08:50]
B
Well, that is a good lead. Into our first news item. Way to set it up, Jen. And we wanted to talk about this story. Trump administration terminates several agreements to protect transgender students in school.
- [09:05]
C
School.
- [09:05]
B
And it sounds like they are really trying to protect the transgender student. But, you know, in, like, Realville, if you actually wanted to say. What we're talking about here is the Trump administration is saying that we are not going to force girls to be in the same bathrooms with boys. We are not going to force girls to compete against boys on the field, in the pool, on the track. Like, it's, it's like negative land. You know, the way that they place these headlines. So, Jen, do you want to tell us a little bit about exactly what the Trump administration did and what the implications are for schools across the country?
- [09:44]
C
Yeah. What stood out to me so much was the headlines of these major news organizations and how they framed it. So just list like, take a listen to this. The Trump administration terminates several agreements to protect transgender students in schools. That's AP News. The New York Times says breaking news. The Trump administration will pull out of civil rights settlements that aim to ensure equal opportunities to trans students. And then the last one, Reuters. Trump administration ends some civil rights settlements backing transgender students. You look at the headlines. Oh, my gosh, this sounds awful. It's civil rights. The Trump administration is against civil rights. It's against protecting trans children. Okay, well, what does it actually mean? The decision removes federal obligations for schools to keep doing things like forcing teachers to use preferred pronouns, forcing a school to allow a boy into the girls locker room or into the girls sports. That's the only. This isn't even if you're a conservative, it's not even far enough. It's not even good enough by any measure. They're just rolling back Biden and probably Obama's policies where the federal government is threatening you as a school district or as a state and saying, if you don't let a boy into the girl's bathroom, you're going to have us to deal with. Trump is saying, though the Trump administration is saying you guys interpreted Title 9 improperly. It does not mean how I feel in the moment. It means biological sex.
- [11:20]
B
It's so funny because I am in one of those states that is compelling schools to do this, even over their own objections. Like, you have to do it. And you know, they, the kind of adjustments that they have to make are laughable. So, for example, my son goes to a school where like almost all schools, there are multiple stalls that are in the bathroom. Like, so a bathroom can accommodate six students, for example, but they're like, oh, this is an all gender bathroom. And they know that a lot of the girls don't want to be in there with boys, or they know that a lot of boys aren't going to want to be in there with a girl. And so what they did is they put a lock on the main front door, not all the stalls, so one person can use the bathroom where normally it would accommodate six. And so you have this whole giant bathroom to yourself. You lock the door. A lot of kids are like, I'm just going to stay in here for like a half hour, get a little break time to myself. And then of course, you have this huge line outside because you've got a school of hundreds of students with five bathrooms that are in essence, single use. But it's like, it's the insanity of insisting on ideology over biology. And now this is just saying, you don't have to do that. You don't have to force it anymore if you don't want, if you don't, if you're going. It actually doesn't make sense for us to use our facilities like this. You're no longer going to have the full force of the federal government crack down on you if you say, actually this bathroom is just going to be for biological boys.
- [12:43]
C
Well, in Washington state, those were a bunch of the examples I gave of the Seattle Public School district must be, you must be allowed to participate in sports and classes aligned with their identity. And we have examples of, of students playing volleyball, you know, female students playing volleyball against a student who's been allowed to participate in accordance with their gender identity and gets drilled in the face by a volleyball, hit at her by a 16 year old boy.
- [13:10]
B
Concussed? Yeah, like they're concussed. And why is that? It's because like the net. And Jen, you're a volleyball coach, so you know this probably like the men's net is higher so that the spike is not as hard when it comes down. So he's playing not just as a giant guy, not just with like different upper body strength, not just with the ability to jump higher, but a lower net. And so like it, it just, you know, magnitude of force greater as it relates to that thing landing square on your face.
- [13:38]
C
Brandy Cruz, locally so again, if you're in the Seattle area, you should go look her up. She's an independent journalist that and pretty socially liberal. I think so. But she's awesome in reporting on this issue. And she talked about two local Seattle, you know, east side students that met with our Seattle superintendent, I don't even remember his name. And basically we're trying to get him to just admit girls and boys are different. We have different needs, we have different physical abilities or just strength, you know, the speed at which you can hit a baseball or a volleyball or whatever. Just acknowledge it because you refusing to acknowledge it is is making us victims. And the girls told the superintendent boys are just deciding for the day they want to identify as female so they can come in and out of our bathrooms and our locker rooms. Don't you. Do you want your teenage daughter to do that?
- [14:31]
B
What did they say? What the superintendent say?
- [14:33]
C
He just kept saying, well, I have to follow the law. It's not my personal preference, but I have to follow the law.
- [14:39]
B
And now you don't, baby. Now you actually can say, I will side with the girls. I will recognize biological reality. Everybody will be better for it. Stay with us. We're going to hit a couple more headlines in this next segment.
- [15:02]
A
Welcome back to Them before us on American Family Radio.
- [15:06]
B
We are back at them before U.S. radio. I'm your host Katie Foust. Here with them before us, training director Jen Friesen. And we are hitting a few more headlines for you. The first one we wanted to talk about is what looks like the great sorting and the great sifting measurable by the number of babies. So we have seen a real divergence between different policies and red states and blue states. We've seen some sorting that goes along with that. Some people moving from blue states to red states. We've seen obviously different policies that are resulting in states that are more friendly for example to marriage and children than the red states that are driving them away. And we've talked about on the radio show just like the reduction in like kid friendly spaces in certain blue cities and blue states. You know, we've noticed here in Seattle that there are a lot more, for example, shops for your pets than there are necessarily toy stores for kids. There's a lot of dog parks here. There's still some play equipment, but we got a lot of dog parks. And so it's interesting to see like some of the changes that you can measure in terms of just babies born and families growing. And there was a new report that came out, the 2026 Family Structure Index that showed that red states are seeing modest increases in marriage rates and smaller declines in birth rates compared to blue states, where both of those trends are moving downwards. Migration patterns reinforce the shift, obviously, but there's more than just the influx of people fleeing from red states to blue states. I'm sorry, other way around, from blue states to red states. So Jen, tell us what you saw. You know, what are the major things that this report revealed? Why do you think this is happening?
- [16:57]
C
Well, it was so interesting because I thought, well, maybe the red states are doing all this incredible, much better policies when it comes to marriage and family. We've talked about on the radio program. A lot of countries and states think the more money and tax benefits you can throw at something, the more you incentivize it. And we've, you know, there's kind of mixed success with some of that. But a huge piece of this is literally that people are being so squelched in blue states, they're leaving. They would, they would be having babies in a blue state because of their values, but they're leaving and then taking their babies and having them in the red state. So that's a huge piece of it. But the biggest drivers of this that the study pointed out were religious participation and housing affordability. Now housing affordability does seem to go back to what are the policies and the things that are being put in place in the state we talked about again in the Seattle area. Things are so unaffordable here. A huge piece of that is you take the majority of our money with our taxes and we can't afford then the big nice, you know, apartment that's kind of away from downtown Seattle. So you're away from the crime and stuff. Well, we can't afford it because you're taking so much more money in taxes. So we're going to move to, you know, Idaho is getting A bunch of, you know, people who used to live in Seattle. But I think the religious participation piece is also very interesting. We know this is true, I believe, for Muslims and for Christians. So it's not just Christian. But there is something to be said for people who think there's an existence or a world or a purpose just outside of the right here and the right now. It's not just about my happiness and what do I feel right now. I don't really feel like having kids or getting married. It seems like people who are religious and see that there maybe is a greater purpose to me having a family and having children and communicating values to the people around me. Those are the people who end up having more children. And within Christianity, of course, children are very high value. So having more children means that's even better. Having two children is even better than having one child. So it's just a culturally, it's a high value and people are respected and honored and supported and it's talked about in a really positive way.
- [19:09]
B
It is not necessarily a financial issue. I mean, obviously housing costs are a problem and we've seen that so much in Seattle. We're not too far from downtown where we live. We live like right on the edge of like kind of ghettoville. But then we're also like a mile from the water. So like, you go one mile one way and you've got probably the most affordable homes in Seattle. Like you can get a three bedroom, one bath for maybe 550,000. But then you go the other direction and you've got these $10 million homes on the water. So it's not. We've seen young couples with kids say, I can't live in Seattle. I'm going to move 45 minutes away or I'm going to move to Idaho, or I'm going to move to South Dakota or North Dakota or whatever, because that is a factor. But if you want to have kids, you generally are going to have kids. You'll figure out a way to make it work. You know, I've got some friends here who live six blocks away in a home probably they purchased for $400,000 maybe 10 years ago. And it's a three bedroom, one's a playroom, one bedroom is mom and dad's room, and the other bedroom has two sets of bunk beds in it. And the kids between the ages of 8 and 18 all sleep. All the four boys sleep in that room. So it's like, if you want to have children, you're going to have children. And the people that want to have children, Jen, like you said, are doing it for some reason other than I can afford it. Like a lot of us could not, quote, unquote, afford it. They just choose to live on less. So what is it that motivates you be so countercultural, Especially in Seattle where, like, I never even took my kids to the zoo. I couldn't afford taking my kids to the zoo. It's just so expensive here. So there has to be something other than money that's involved in this calculation. And what is it? It is something, just like you said, Jen, that there is a value beyond what it is that we're going to get from the decision here and now. And if you spend any amount of time on social media, you will see this war, this ideological war around children of like, why would I ever get married? Kids are such a drain. Look at me like, I'm 37 years old and I've got my fit, like yoga body and I've got my, you know, 200 bikini and here I am paddle boarding in Hawaii and like, why would I ever give this up? Because I just want to sleep in all the time and I can drink wine as late as I want. And. And then you've got the other, you know, side of the ideological spectrum where you do have somewhat modest most of the time, like often very modest. Moms and dads were like, help me welcome my fifth child. I just gave birth my fifth child today. And they go home to a place that is more modest to a life that is going to be more high demand in terms of they can't sleep in as long as they want, they can't go out and, you know, have cocktail hour every night and they're not taking vacations to Hawaii and they probably don't look as good in the bikini. Okay, what's the trade off? Like you said, Jen, they think there's more than just what I'm going to get in this moment. So that's what I'm like. That's really what you're talking about. When you're looking at what is the difference between fertility rates, you're tending to find higher fertility rates in people that are highly religious. Honestly, among the Christian, the non Muslim world, Mormons are the highest, Catholics are next. Evangelicals are close on their heels. And why is it? It is because those worldviews tell a different story about kids. And it's not a story of immediate gratification. It's not a story of just what can I get ahead? It's not a story of Economics. It's a story of children matter. There's a value in children in and of themselves and motherhood matters. It tells a different story about the status of motherhood. It's not a second rate choice. It's not what you do if you can't have a career. It's valued because children are valued. So it's like you really have to enter into a totally different story. And it looks like red states are a little more hospitable to that story than blue states are.
- [22:56]
C
Yeah, I heard an Instagram reel that was so pointed this out so long I hadn't thought about it. Because people are having less children, you as a sibling are less likely to grow up with babies in your house. So like for my example, my two siblings and I all grew up. We're very close in age, so we just, we were kind of all teenagers together, all young people together, et cetera. When you have bigger families, you have kids who've experienced a much broader range of ages. So you get to be with, you know, you might be 12, but you're with a 5 year old and you're with a baby. And when you see the positive, yes, it's hard work, but it's positive. They're cute, they're fun, and you have all this age interaction, especially when you have grandparents close by and aunts and uncles and cousins, you're more likely to want that for yourself sooner. And so we don't really have as much of that, especially when no one can afford to live together, you can't afford to have as many children. And so we're going to see maybe more of that in the red states versus the blue over time. I'll transition us to our next section. We're going to talk about, it's an IF Institute for Family Studies, another article by them, but they're talking about how the search for perfection is really fueling what they're calling the dating recession. And I'd love your comments on this, Katie, because you just wrote a four part series on dating for our thumb for a substack. But you know, if you're on social media at all, you know, this concept of getting the ick is kind of a phrase that's mostly for women, used by women. It's the idea that like the guy's perfect and he makes all this money and he treats you right and then he wears socks with sandals and you got the ick and you're like, I can't do it anymore. You know, I'm not going to date him. Anymore. And I mean, some of them are funny, but there was a woman scrolling her notes app and it was like 150 things that give her the ick. And it was just completely like, he doesn't open the car door for me or he does open the car door for me and I don't want to be treated like a. Why is he treating me like I'm a trad wife or whatever. But what are your thoughts on kind of what the dating scene is now and that idea of the quest for perfection versus maybe the more important things people should be looking for?
- [25:08]
B
It is very hard to even make a comprehensive list of the challenges in the dating market today. You have the massive ideological split where especially among the under 30 crowd, you've got like two to one conservative men for conservative girls. And so you've got a lot of conservative girls who will not even cons. I'm sorry, you have a lot of liberal girls who will never even consider dating a guy that is not liberal. Like, they're like, if you voted for Trump, you're out, period. Okay, I, I don't want to hear why. Like, it's just, you're totally out. So you've got the ideological divide and then obviously you've got the challenges of family breakdown where children who were raised in family breakdown situations have a harder time for forming and maintaining relationships. So you've got that problem in front of you and then you've got the porn problem where a lot of guys won't even bother trying to approach a woman because they've got this whole digital experience, like, right at their fingertips. So, like, it's just too risky or too uncomfortable to approach a real life woman. Then you have the rise of the social media just curated world where we are spending so much time looking at social media where people can fabricate, filter, curate, so you have an actually, you have an unrealistic understanding of what actually is out there. And number one, what people actually look like. And what you look like too, by the way. People overvalue themselves because they're used to looking at themselves through filtered lenses. But then you've got like the real problem of social media, I'm sorry, dating apps, which gives you this illusion of unlimited choices. Like there's always somebody else out there. I can always go back and swipe. And so if you do actually go on a date and you meet somebody who meets your criteria, like almost all of your criteria, and there's one little thing. Oh my gosh, he likes small dogs. I hate guys that like Small dogs. I just think guys that like small dogs and what are they even doing? Like, do you know how that ridiculous that looks? Or I hate guys that like big dogs. I mean, like, are you compensating for something like what is going on? And it really is these negligible like superficial criteria that will just knock somebody out of the running. And it's a, it's actually a huge problem. Like I wrote this four part dating series for our substack because I don't think most people over the age of 40 understand the dating desert that the next generation is experiencing. And I'm not talking about women that are like, no, I just want a boss babe and I want to get my degree. It is hard for people out there who are beautiful, smart, intelligent, virtuous. They are struggling to find other people to pair off with because we've put all these hurdles in their way, starving them of human connection. The ability to just practice, the ability to just find places where they can be in the same space in person with somebody of the opposite sex to observe and study and get to know them on a friendship level. It's like a five alarm fire that we're not acknowledging.
- [28:14]
C
Yeah, and you wrote about this for them before us.substack.com and it starts with saving civilization. I mean, the concept is we're not having enough babies to replace ourselves. Almost no developing country is. South Dakota is the only state in the United States that is having enough babies to replace itself. And it probably kind of hard to meet someone in South Dakota if you think about it. But you know, you say, we can't get married if you're not dating. You're not gonna have babies. If you shouldn't have babies, if you're not married yet. And so this really is a much more serious thing than just, oh, people need to date. And no one goes out anymore. And I was thinking too, the rise of the AI relationship. I mean, AI is, is able to write and create some art now occasionally that can trick someone into thinking it's real. So. And it's designed to affirm you. It's designed to make you feel good about yourself. It's designed to agree with you. And there's something very appealing about interacting with something that feels real, that makes you feel great. It's not like a real human relationship that can be uncomfortable, challenges you, tells you you're not always the greatest. Wow, you really hurt me. Or you need to do better in that area. And even with Grok, I think it's Elon's you know, thing they're making visuals now. You can create the visuals that you want, make it look like a girlfriend. And so if we don't get back to being in person and connecting with people, we are going to be in big trouble.
- [29:43]
B
We have Christians I think have led the way when it comes to things like great parenting. We've got a lot of good books on parenting. We've totally led the way when it comes to great marriages, giving great advice on how to be a wonderful husband, a wonderful wife and get through the, the difficult times together. I mean we have really tutored the world on that. I know non Christians that will read Christian books on marriage and parenting or get their advice from James Dobson because it's solid advice. Christians are very often the only people that are raising down syndrome children today and a lot of the ones that will refuse to put elderly parent in a nursing home. Like we are showing the world as it should be, how to do all kinds of human relationships. This is an area where we need to teach people to do human relationships. Christians need to be the best daters that there are and then we need to export our dating structure to the rest of the world. Jen, you are, you're in this space. Like I'll let you wrap this segment up if you want.
- [30:53]
C
I know, you know, I, I don't have a lot of experience with dating. I mean my, my parents marriage situation was difficult. It makes it hard in some ways to look aspirationally at male female relationships. But when I tried online dating it just seemed like there was not a lot there a lot of people within that level, Christian conservative sort of thing. And I think churches really need to step up in this way and like you said, lead the way in this. All right, check our show notes for access to the different resources we have to see our substack and we will catch all of you guys in the next segment. Sam and I are going to take you down a journey for some more comments that we see around the Internet. So stay tuned.
- [31:33]
B
Really great that you give us some of your weekend. We love that you listen. We love that you send in questions. We really appreciate it. And just that you give an hour of your time on Saturday or Sunday to turn your attention to marriage and family issues. It doesn't just matter for individual children, it matters for adults and for the sake of our entire nation. Stay with us. Jen and Sam will be back with your questions and some hilarious commentary.
- [32:01]
A
If you'd like to comment on the show, email comments thembeforeus.com Once again, here's Katie Foust.
- [32:09]
C
Hey everyone. Welcome to here for the comments. A them before us production with Jen and Sam.
- [32:17]
D
Hi everyone. Welcome.
- [32:20]
C
We go through all the comments across social media, on our substack and everywhere in between and we talk about the comments so you guys can hear, you know, how we would reply to the people who push back or we laugh at the haters or we will try to answer the honest questions that we get. And we have a great time doing it. So Samantha, tell us the first comment or it's kind of a thing that went trending a little bit on social media about sleep. You don't even have to, you don't have to read the exact thing, but just you pointed this out. This was an interesting tweet.
- [32:51]
D
So there is an account on Twitter who basically just posts stats, but they posted a stat that says a new baby usually deprives each of its parents around 350 to 400 hours of sleep in the first year. And so of course that's blowing up and everyone's excited to talk about how babies are the worst. And so.
- [33:10]
C
And I, I actually did look at that like, whoa, that's so much. That's a lot of sleep. And then Sam pointed out that's about an hour a day less sleep. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, actually it sounds a little less dramatic when you put it per day.
- [33:26]
D
Yeah, yeah, I think it's very on purpose the way that they worded it. But also, I'm not gonna lie, I actually think I lost a lot more sleep than an hour a day with my kids. But I just think that it's like, of course they're gonna only post the negative side of it and not like how many hours of joy do we get from having a children because it's endless, you know, like, you don't talk about the positives of having a K. It's almost impossible to quantify. And so yeah, it's just funny because people are talking about that and I also mentioned to you earlier off camera, but it's just funny that they aren't posting stats about how many hours of sleep you lose, like playing your favorite video game or streaming or how many hours of sleep you lose when you go to college and you have to pull an all nighter just to like study for a test that you want to do or for certain career choices that are popular right now. So we lose sleep for all different kinds of reasons. And I think having a baby is like, like the best reason to lose sleep because they're so cute, and they're so great, and they bring so much to your life that it's like, who cares if I lose an hour of sleep a day or even more? It's just so. It's so silly.
- [34:31]
C
So, yeah, they should do one. You know, a new med student is deprived of X amount of sleep in the first year. Right. Your first year residency or whatever. Of course there are things. If you said a firefighter loses X amount of sleep because they're saving lives and they're putting out fires, we would say, oh, well, that's an interesting stat, but it's totally worth it. They're saving lives. But you're right, sometimes these things are framed. And we see that on the reels of the people who say, I'm so glad I'm single because if I had a baby, I would be deprived of. Yeah, my one extra hour of sleep a day. I couldn't be having brunch. I couldn't be hiking with friends. And the two sides are. Other people are saying, I have brunch. I have children and I have brunch. I have children, and I do go hiking. It's not this. You have a baby, your life is over. It's ruined. You have no more fun left. Yes, you do give up some things to gain other things that are important. You sacrifice in a lot of ways to gain other things that are important. And our society affirms that in lots of things. Nursing, going to med school, education, being an entrepreneur. I mean, Elon Musk was, like, brought his mattress into the office at Twitter when he took it over. Oh, okay. You're so cool. And he has, like, 10 kids spread out all over the place. He's not. He's losing sleep. He's. All the people who work for him are losing sleep. But it's awesome because you're an entrepreneur and you're a billionaire and you're sending rockets to space. So you're right. There's just kind of that double standard. And then people act like a new human is not worth the sacrifice. All these other things are.
- [36:14]
D
How much sleep are you losing watching Tick Tock every night? Like, we all do it. Like, it's so silly. And also, they don't talk about what you're doing when you're not sleeping, when you have a newborn. And it's like the. It's the best thing to lose sleep to. I like some of the memories that I have with my children and, like, the dark night and it's quiet and I'm rocking them back to sleep, and I'm watching their little eyes flutter and, like, I'm rubbing their hair and holding their hands and singing them lullabies, like, my favorite memories that I will remember for the rest of my life. And it's like, I'm so glad I wasn't sleeping right then. I'm so glad I was awake and was I exhausted the next day, I'm sure. But that phase is so fast, and before you know it, you're out of it and you're wishing that they were little babies again because it's such a precious time in your life. And, like, I just. I wouldn't want to be doing anything else other than spending that time with them. So, again, yes, I lost some sleep. I lost a lot more sleep than one hour a night. But it was, like, for the best thing I could imagine. And it's so worth it. So if that is something that makes you nervous, if you're not a parent and you might want to be a parent one day, and you're thinking to yourself, boy, I don't want to lose a bunch of sleep, just as a parent, know that it's so worth it. It doesn't matter. You don't even really, like, once it's all said and done, you don't. You wouldn't trade it for the world. So I say, still go for it. Have lots of kids.
- [37:36]
C
That's good perspective. I was talking with one of my friends about her kids roughhousing in the living room. They're in there. They're not even teenagers yet. And she said sometimes she gets so overstimulated, she just wants to be like, knock it off. Get out of the house. And she'll think back. Or she'll think about them being grown up and not in her house anymore. It's almost like a movie, like, you picture. Just, like, boom. It's like perfectly clean house, empty, quiet. The things you kind of wish you had sometimes because you're overstimulated. There's so much going on. It's fine. It makes sense to want those things. But she can acknowledge there's going to be a point when my children are not here 247 anymore. Yeah, you're gonna get emotional. The cats in the cradle. You're gonna. There's going to be a time that is over. There's no more waking up in the middle of the night. They don't fit into your arms anymore.
- [38:26]
B
Jen, don't keep talking to me right now.
- [38:28]
D
Oh, my gosh, it really is so sweet.
- [38:31]
C
Perspective, though, could help a Parent get through it would make. It forces you to recognize like, I am going to appreciate this moment while I'm in it. Even though it's hard, it's worth sacrificing for. It's not going to last forever, but it is worth it because the humans that we're making.
- [38:49]
D
Yeah, I actually heard something like that. Oh, sorry. I heard something like that somewhere and it always has stuck with me. It's like pretend that you're 70 and you're thinking back to the moment when you're in your 20s, you're in your 30s, and your kids are young again. It's like that's all you want. And it really does help put it into perspective sometimes when things are so chaotic. If you could really picture yourself like, oh, imagine I'm actually 70 and this is just a glimpse into my life and it really helps it put it into perspective and like, makes you cherish the things that might be driving you crazy at the moment.
- [39:20]
C
Yeah, that's good. Okay, the next part is definitely not going to make anyone cry, but we're talking, we'll talk a little bit about mental load, which is. I don't know if this is a psychology term, a therapy term. It's not from. It was not a thing when I was in psychology school or getting my education in that area or any of the reading I've really done. It's the concept of someone carrying information about how things run, the different things that need to happen, when they need to happen, a bunch of details. And we hear about mental load because you see Instagram Reels or TikToks, primarily from women that are complaining that the mental load that they have to carry is something that their husbands don't understand or don't care about. And then they will give a lot of examples. Sam, do you know some of the examples that women will give about the mental load that they carry that men don't understand?
- [40:15]
D
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like mostly day to day stuff. So if your husband's someone who is at work during the day and you're at home with the kids, it's like the little things. Like if I sign my kids up for swim lessons, it's not just, just I'm signing them up, but I also have to like find the right place, Think about the budget, think about like the swimsuits that they have to wear. Make sure that it's timed perfectly because if you have both of them in swim, you want it to be around the same time. That way you don't have to take them to swim on Tuesday, but then take them back on Wednesday. You want it to be back to back. So you have to have the schedule up there. You know, who's driving them, who's getting them home. Are they eating before they go? Are they going to eat when they get back? Do they? You know, it's like all the things that come with it, it. And I feel like mental load shouldn't even be a term again. I really think it's just this feminist way of attacking men and, like, making what they do day to day seem so much more important. But it's like, it's literally just you living life. It's just living life. Men have to think about all the details about their jobs and about what they handle at home. You know, my husband handles so many things in my house that I don't have to think about. He's the one who handles the lawn. He's the one who takes care of, like, the grill. Make sure that's done. He's the one who handles, like, all the electric stuff, the thermostat. We just moved into a house and we're having to, like, replace our electric panel. I don't even know really what the electric panel looks like behind everything. I've never touched it. He's handled all of it. He's called the electrician. He's talking with them about quotes. He handles our finances. So, like, he handles so much on his own. But you know what he doesn't do? He doesn't complain about me to the Internet and tell me that I don't handle his mental load and cry about it. He comes and talks to me about the things that I need to know, and I talk to him about the things that he needs to know. And we work as a team. We both give a hundred percent to the activities that we're handling that day. And we're on each other's team. We're not talking about each other on the Internet behind their backs, saying how we're failing in some area or another.
- [42:09]
B
Yeah, well.
- [42:10]
C
And using your swim lessons example, the. The way a woman who is complaining about it on a TikTok reel or whatever, what she would do is say, I was sick that day. My husband took the day off work and he went and took the kids to swim lessons. And then he was texting me from downstairs, what swimsuit are they supposed to wear? So and so says they want this pair of goggles or that pair of goggles are we supposed to eat before we go? And they're Asking you all the questions that you've sort of established. Here's the. The few things as well. I get frustrated when wives get mad at their husbands and they're like, they don't know how to make the formula or they don't know how to swaddle them or whatever. But I'm like, but you did all the practice. You did a bunch of the trial and error because he was working outside the home and you're working inside the home or whatever it was. But then you turn around and kind of get frustrated that they don't know all the things that you've already learned, but they've been working in a different sphere. And that's the part I wrote something for them before us account kind of from the husband's perspective, like Sam was alluding to. And it says, husband finally agrees to share the mental load. And it was unpacking a bunch of those things. Again, these are kind of stereotypes. But the point is not that women work inside the home and men do only things outside the home or they do the yard or whatever. It's not necessarily that. Sometimes women mow the lawn, sometimes men do the laundry, whatever it is. But the point is, like Sam said, both people in the marriage tend to have parts of the household that they're just kind of responsible for. Whoever cares more or is better with money sometimes is the one who handles all the bills. I have a friend who's like, I could not tell you what our bank is, what the name of our bank is. She knows that her husband, he's like, finance guru guy. He takes care of the bills. When she uses her card, the money goes through. That's like, that's all she's.
- [44:07]
D
Honestly, that's me. I can't even. That's me. I get asked all the time, like, from my siblings, if we're talking about, like, what was your electric bill this month? I was like, I couldn't tell you what it was for the last year. I was like, I don't. I don't ever look on there. Because that's something that my husband's very good at. He's very good at budgeting. He's a finance guy. He knows what he's doing. And guess what? We're taking care of every single month. I have nothing to complain about. I have whatever I need, he takes care of. And so. Yeah, that's so funny.
- [44:34]
C
Yeah. And then I was just thinking things about, like, my dad is always talking to me about the air in my tires, like, how, oh, that tire is Looking a little bit low. And it's like, what? And he knows the psi pressure, whatever for each tire. And so I just think, husbands, you know, if you ask the wife what you need to replace your windshield wipers, what brand, you know, what brand do you need from the store? Like, is a wife going to walk into AutoZone and not call her husband or talk to the guy and say, hey, which windshield wipers am I supposed to get? But if the man was doing what the woman was doing and saying, how dare you not know this information? And actually, this was a really funny tweet. A guy said, if a man buys the wrong kind of milk, it's weaponized incompetence. Because that's another phrase that people use. Oh, he's pretending not to know things to put the burden back on me versus just, he doesn't know what kind of brand of milk you prefer, and he's checking with you because he wants to get the kind you prefer. So that would be a positive way of looking at it. But now if he asks what the right kind of milk is, that's not carrying the mental load. And the majority of the mental load is women complaining that their preferences are the right way to do it. And you're not. You don't just know. Yeah, like you said, it just seems like good communication is probably the answer to most of this. Assuming the best, asking for help, being clear about communication and expectations. And if you really love and want to serve the other person, you're not saying, you better read my mind. And I'm going to be really mad at you if you don't know the windshield wipers or you don't know how to light the pilot light of the furnace. How dare you ask me. It's just ridiculous. You know, when we think about it from both sides. You have a final thought.
- [46:23]
D
My final thought, I'll make it quick, is, you know, when it comes to some of the basics, like your kids and, like, who their doctor is, or just, like, what to feed them for dinner, like, I. I actually agree that, like, your husband should know the basics. 6. I went on a trip to D.C. for a few days, and guess what? I didn't have to tell my husband a thing. He knew what to feed the kids, when to feed them, how to take care of them, how to dress them, where their clothes were, all the things. So all I have to say is, if you marry a bum, then you. That's embarrassing for you. Like, like, you shouldn't be online ranting about them. You should be trying to fix your marriage and helping him become a better person. So just want to throw that out there too. Like marry a good guy and then you don't have as much issue with the mental load because. Because they have a brain.
- [47:01]
C
So yeah, it's probably a good reason too. Katie talks about this all the time. You need marriage mentors. You need to have other couples in your life. Your church, your neighborhood, whatever. Good men, good women, marriages that are great that you can see and see it modeled for you. That the husband doesn't just get home from work and sit down and do nothing the rest of the whole evening. You know that if both people are trying to outdo each other other in showing honor and care and love for each other and serving each other, your marriage isn't going to look like what a lot of these complaints are online, right?
- [47:34]
B
So 100 everyone.
- [47:37]
C
Hope you enjoyed here for the comments today. If you find comments you like that you want us to reply to, you can always shoot them over to us media them before us.com and or tag us at them before us across any of the things. And yeah, we're going to keep answering, answering and giving you the best way to answer so many things we see. Thanks for being with us.
- [47:56]
D
See ya.
- [48:11]
B
The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast do not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.