A Fatal Blow in the Battle for Green? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 17 | THEMOVE

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Episode Summary: "A Fatal Blow in the Battle for Green? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 17"

Release Date: July 23, 2025
Host: Lance Armstrong
Guests: Sir Bradley Wiggins, Spencer Martin, George Hincapie, Michael White

---

Overview

In this episode of THEMOVE, Lance Armstrong delves deep into the dramatic developments of Stage 17 of the Tour de France 2025, focusing on the intense battle for the green jersey. The discussion intertwines race analysis with personal anecdotes and a poignant segment on cyclist safety legislation following a tragic accident.

Tour de France Stage 17 Analysis

Stage 17 is highlighted as one of the most challenging stages of the Tour, featuring 5,400 meters of climbing, including multiple Hors Catégorie (HC) climbs. The panel dissects the route from Boleyn to Valence, emphasizing its demanding nature:

• Climb Breakdown:
  "Officially the final climb is 26.4km, which is a long way." – Lance Armstrong [37:00]

• Green Jersey Battle:
  The focus centers on Jonas Vingegaard and Dimitri Pogacar competing for the green jersey. Armstrong and his guests discuss Pogacar's strategy and the mathematical requirements he needs to meet to secure the jersey.

  • Strategic Insights:
    "He would need to win both mountain stages, assuming he does not take intermediate points." – Bradley Wiggins [00:07]

  • Aggression and Points:
    "If it really comes down to like, if Picacho wins these mountain stages and wins in Paris, he wins green." – Bradley Wiggins [16:38]

Crashes and Their Impact

Stage 17 witnessed significant crashes that influenced the race dynamics:

• Jonathan Milan's Crash:
  Jonathan Milan, a contender for the green jersey, was involved in a crash caused by slippery conditions from unexpected rain. The panel discusses how this incident affects his standing.

  • Event Description:
    "It was a sketchy finish... A lot of slippery, a lot of roundabouts." – George Hincapie [04:24]

  • Impact on Milan:
    "He's out of green." – Bradley Wiggins [19:47]

• Tim Merlier's Narrow Escape:
  Tim Merlier managed to avoid crashing, showcasing impressive bike-handling skills under pressure.

  • Skill Highlight:
    "His bike handling skills are incredible... super impressive." – Spencer Martin [04:29]

Tribute to Ozzy Osbourne

The episode takes a heartfelt moment to honor the late Ozzy Osbourne, acknowledging his influence and legacy in music:

• Personal Anecdote:
  "I will never forget... the opening act that night, 1987 for Ozzy, was a small up and coming band, Metallica." – Lance Armstrong [12:06]

• Legacy Reflection:
  "Ozzy, may you rest in peace. Loved it." – Lance Armstrong [12:08]

Cyclist Safety Legislation with Michael White

A significant portion of the episode features Michael White, who discusses the aftermath of his son Magnus White's tragic accident and the ongoing efforts to improve cyclist safety through legislation:

• Tragic Incident:
  "Magnus was hit on July 29, 2023... driver guilty of felony vehicular homicide." – Michael White [22:23]

• Legislative Efforts:
  Introduction of the Magnus White Cyclist Safety Act, aimed at mandating Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) systems in all new vehicles to detect and prevent collisions with cyclists.

  • Bill Details:
    "It requires automatic emergency braking and all new vehicles to detect pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and scooter riders." – Michael White [23:30]

  • Call to Action:
    "We need the first Republican to get on, and then it'll be a truly bipartisan bill because it is life and death." – Michael White [28:29]

• Impact and Hope:
  Armstrong emphasizes the importance of this legislation for the safety of cyclists everywhere, reflecting on his personal fears when riding.

  • Personal Connection:
    "I get scared out riding on the roads... God's work." – Lance Armstrong [24:22]

Predictions and Strategies

The panel offers insights and predictions for the remaining stages of the Tour:

• Jonas Vingegaard's Strategy:
  Speculation on whether Vingegaard will continue his aggressive pursuit or adjust his tactics to secure the green jersey.

  • Panel Discussion:
    "Does Jonas Vingegaard, does he care that much about getting second? Because for me I wouldn't care." – Lance Armstrong [48:53]

• Stage Dynamics:
  Expectations of continued breakaways and the peloton's response to maintain control over the race outcome.

  • Strategic Maneuvers:
    "A lot of these guys are gonna go in it. Lenny Martinez has got to get in there to get the K1 points." – Spencer Martin [40:26]

Conclusion

The episode of THEMOVE seamlessly blends high-stakes sports analysis with meaningful discussions on cyclist safety, underscored by personal stories and tributes. Armstrong and his guests provide listeners with an insider's perspective on the complexities of the Tour de France, the human stories behind the race, and the ongoing efforts to make cycling safer for all enthusiasts.

Notable Quotes

• Bradley Wiggins:
  "He would need to win both mountain stages, assuming he does not take intermediate points." [00:07]

• Lance Armstrong:
  "I will never forget... the opening act that night, 1987 for Ozzy, was a small up and coming band, Metallica." [12:06]

• Michael White:
  "It requires automatic emergency braking and all new vehicles to detect pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and scooter riders." [23:30]

• Lance Armstrong:
  "I get scared out riding on the roads... God's work." [24:22]

---

Note: This summary focuses exclusively on the core content of the episode, omitting advertisements, introductory remarks, and concluding segments to provide a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[Lance Armstrong]

Does Poguchar need to win all these mountain stages in order for that math to play out or does he just need to get a lot of points?

[Bradley Wiggins]

He would, he would, he would need to win both mountain stages, assuming he does not take intermediate points, which that would be a little aggressive.

[Spencer Martin]

After the, after the break, we'll go through, we'll break down the profile and see where the actual sprint is and what are the chances of him actually being up there going for them.

[Bradley Wiggins]

How bad do you think he wants this green?

[Spencer Martin]

I can't imagine. I mean, I think he wants all three, but thinking about you guys, you would not even consider being.

[Lance Armstrong]

Of course not. But we're never even in a position.

[George Hincapie]

Just on Bernardino, he won twice on the sh el in yellow 79 and 1982.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Wow.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, everybody, welcome back to the Move podcast brought to you each and every day by Ketone iq. I'm joined right here to my left by Sir Bradley Wiggins. Got a lot of spottings around town, sightings around town of you just chilling in the short shorts. Yeah, it's a big hit by the way. We are in Aspen, Colorado. It's a small town. So I get.

[Spencer Martin]

And we get people that watch you walking by and watch other people's reaction. They watch you walk by, they go, who the hell is that? Like in awe of your stature.

[Lance Armstrong]

Short shorts, tats yoked, short shorts, retro.

[Spencer Martin]

Jordans will never be the same.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, dog. Also George Hink Happy Mr. Georgine Cappy over there. I gotta say something about George because we started earlier in the tour talking about Love island, man. My man watches Love island incessantly. It was also once it was all breaking news. I didn't know this 20 years later, more than 20 years was was in the running to go on the Bachelor. Right in the middle of a seven year round of winning tours. The guy, how was that going to work out?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, Johan would have been thrilled.

[Lance Armstrong]

Johan would have loved that. Johan, the guy that wouldn't let you take a computer or a phone to the Tour de France.

[Spencer Martin]

He would not have been pleased.

[Lance Armstrong]

George is a little behind on his fitness. He has been on set of the Bachelor each and every day.

[Spencer Martin]

You stayed pretty fit during Stars on Mars though.

[Lance Armstrong]

You know, like I said earlier and you brought that up earlier, I said I haven't barely recovered from that, so that's not nice to bring that back up again. But what I was gonna say about Love island is now I'm stuck at home with my almost 15 year old daughter who she has it on Like I can't even walk through the living room anymore. It is all Love Island. It's, it's unbelievable. Also the professor, Spencer Martin right over there. Wait, where were we? Stage 17, Jonathan Milan extending his lead in the green jersey. But before we talk about that, Alan, this. We got a two parter for Alan today. Obviously every, each and every day Alain tells us where we start and finish. We also have a second clip of Alan clarifying the pronunciation of pronunciation. That's actually how you say it. Of, of yesterday's stage winner. So Alan, where'd we go today? Stage 17. Stage 17. From Boleyn to Valence. From Boleyn to Valence. And then of course yesterday on Montvantou. What a ride. All 114 pounds of. And that still blows me away as we would say it, I don't know, Valentine Pura or something but Alen, thank you for sending this in. How do we say it?

[Spencer Martin]

It's Valentin Par. We messed that one up.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, we screwed that up here at the Move, Le Move Poly Pont. Nasty, nasty finish in the rain. I was didn't watch a whole lot of the race to be honest with you, but weather seemed to be good and then the rain rolled in and, and as soon as that happened it got my attention. I'm like er, this is not good. And sure enough it, it had an impact on the finish and made Jonathan Milan's job a lot easier.

[George Hincapie]

Yep, yep. It was a sketchy finish.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sketchy.

[George Hincapie]

A lot of slippery, a lot of roundabouts. I'm surprised there wasn't more crashes actually.

[Lance Armstrong]

I agree, but.

[George Hincapie]

And then the crash happened where we least expected it. Yeah, I think with K to go, was it right the banner there and at first I thought it might have been the barriers and the way the barriers came in at the K to go that caused it. From the overhead shot we saw the FDJ rider was quacking with the coffee, this guy with the NL in between and they went down. But the luckiest man today I thought was Tim Merlier to stay up.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, if you watch the replay of that crash, I mean it was insane. His bike handling skills are incredible. Not just not to over break, not to panic and just avoid guys bikes flying right into him. Just super impressive. But to go back for 25k to go, 30k to go when it starts raining and the directors are yelling, these guys ears like it's raining at the finish. The stress that brings on the peloton. Three almost three weeks into the Tour de France, where you may have not crashed yet you're like, oh, man, I got to try to get a result here. And there's a good chance probably 50, 50. I'm gonna crash.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. Also, you get half the peloton straight away. Switch off and go. Right. I'm done.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's right.

[Lance Armstrong]

I remember in our day when it would. Would start to rain. I mean, I think we were. We would even preempt that. I mean, immediately our question was, is it raining at the finish? Yeah. Because that's. I mean, it sucks when it rains anytime, but you don't want to, you know, come into it.

[Spencer Martin]

And back in that day, it was 1k. So if you only had 1k before the finish line that you were safe in terms of crashing. Now it's 5K, which is a lot better rule.

[Lance Armstrong]

It brings up an interesting point, because imagine back in the day if it was 1k because this crash happened right there. Guys, I. I think we're still sliding.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Through the 1k banner. I'd have to go back and watch it.

[Spencer Martin]

But what we. We've actually had.

[Lance Armstrong]

I was still sliding. Yeah. I get. Same time. I was sliding.

[Spencer Martin]

I don't know if you remember. And Spencer probably can look it up. There was one year we crashed hard. We came into the narrow section barricades ever. And you got stuck behind the crash. I was on the floor, and all of a sudden, we look up, we're right underneath the 1K pattern.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So we're like, we're good. We don't have to worry. We don't have to rush to the finish line. Like, we're not gonna lose any time.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And now they have this rule like, if there's no crash, you have to be more than three seconds behind for there to be a time split. So three seconds at 40 miles an hour, that's like 50 meters probably.

[Spencer Martin]

So I didn't know about that rule.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. So GC riders could actually ride pretty far back and be pretty safe without the risk of a time split.

[Lance Armstrong]

That makes a huge difference.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right. That's the safety zone. Today's show, brought to you by Roka. They have completely reinvented this class of eyewear. Glasses optimized for performance. No other eyewear brand can keep up with what these guys are doing. Doing. They just keep making their stuff better and better. And by the way, too, their prescription glasses have the exact same technology as their performance glasses. I am very glad also to report that sir Bradley went down to Carl's pharmacy the other day and bought him some jank ass. Reading glasses for like 4.99. And he now has, look at this, he's rocking a pair of black. Now that's way better. That's way better. And on brand for us. Unbelievably lightweight. The best optics on the market. They never slip, no matter how sweaty you get. Also working with the special forces here in the United States, which is awesome. Hand built to order in my hometown of Austin, Texas. The Move listeners get 20 off, just go to ROKA. R O K A ROKA. Enter the code the move at checkout. Also today, brought to you by Element. You hear us talk about it all the time. I do sweat my face off. Brought myself to ride with George yesterday. Wasn't even that. It was over overcast. It was kind of cool. I was sweating like crazy. We later in the show, we have a fun story about our mountain bike ride. Totally unexpected, but I was out there sweating. Bottles full of Element. Game changer. That is my go to electrolyte mix. Thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium, no sugar, no gluten, no artifil. Whoa, it's getting long this tour. I mean, we're coming in deep into the third week. No artificial ingredients, no bs. And best of all, if you don't like it, give it to a friend and Element will refund you. Get a free 8 count sample pack of elements Most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase@drink lmnt.com themove that's drinklmnt.com.

[Spencer Martin]

The move I heard yesterday my daughter said she saw a whole shelf of them on in Target, which is a huge deal.

[Lance Armstrong]

Dang.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's a longtime partners of ours. I remember when we first did Element, people were like, what was that? And we were just so obsessed. Now nobody's going.

[Spencer Martin]

What I know. They're everywhere now. Love to see it by the way too.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I do. See there's one here who took all the dream shot from the studio here. It's a big deal.

[Spencer Martin]

I'm not going to lie. Every day I take one, sneak one in my bag for sleeping. I love it.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, I grabbed some too.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, it is basically all gone. And I'm talking seeing the douche is gone. We launched it last week right here on the move. They've sold it out over 50,000 bottles. If you are one of the more than 50% of Americans who struggle with sleep, I'm curious. I say 50%. That's the stat. 50% of Americans. I mean, it's got to be the same all over the world. Maybe less because we managed to screw everything up. But. But nonetheless, you know, a high percentage of people all over the world struggle with sleep. But if you're one of those folks, you should try the dream shot. You can pre order right now at 30. The feed. Don't forget to feed the animals. The feed.com next delivery. Available on August 4th.

[George Hincapie]

Yep. Speaking of the feed, Matt dropped off this other product, Nitric Oxide Pro. I've been using this in the gym. Helps me train at altitude.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I think actually Lance started taking. Cause he wasn't whining as much on yesterday's ride, which I loved.

[Lance Armstrong]

I did feel better.

[Spencer Martin]

It's Nitric Oxide Pro. It boosts your blood flow. Originally developed for people with high blood pressure. I use it definitely. I can tell. I can definitely feel it when I'm riding, but especially when I'm playing tennis.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. And it comes with these test strips as well, which you put your mouth leaving for 5, 6 seconds, take it out, and you can see how much nitric oxide you have in your body by the color on the strip.

[Lance Armstrong]

Nothing about the blood flow.

[George Hincapie]

Well, it increases blood flow, unlike everywhere, you know, so I'm told.

[Lance Armstrong]

Kind of weird that. Yeah. I won't say it. This is a kid. There's a. This is a family show. These feed guys do have it figured out. They've got all the new stuff. The concept, as we've said for many, many years, is one of those things where there's a head scratcher. I'm like, how did I not think of this?

[Spencer Martin]

Yep. New nitric oxide pro. Two pills a day in the last 24 hours.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right before we kick off, talking about stage 17. Just a. Just a moment here. You know, I grew up a little dub T kid in Plano, Texas. Big into the metal scene. I was heartbroken yesterday to see the passing of the Prince of Darkness, Mr. Ozzy Osborne. At 2, at 76 years old, way, way too young for the Prince of Darkness to pass. I will never forget. I went, me and my buddy John Boggan, we're in Plano. We drove over to Fort Worth in 1987 to see Ozzy. And it was an amazing night. And the opening act that night, 1987 for Ozzy, was a small up and coming band, Metallica. Think about that show, 1987. Ozzy, may you rest in peace. Loved it.

[Spencer Martin]

I. I said, he just played 10 days ago. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

He played a show July 5th in his hometown of Birmingham. He definitely was, you know, had to Sit. Look tired. Nonetheless played in front of tens of thousands of people. And. And Liz, before we got on here, asked. I think Liz assumes I've met everybody in the world, which I've met a lot of them. Not everybody. Ozzy is one person I never got to meet. And if I. And. But I have been asked many years or many times over the years of my other show, the forward. If there's anybody you could have on the show, like who's a top three guest. Ozzy Osbourne was always a top three guest. I just, just. This guy was nuts. But he also reinvented himself a dozen times and anyhow, sad to see. Take care of yourselves, folks. On that note, let's talk about a bike race. I grew up a metal kid. I love metal. I still love metal. Yeah, I mean I, I'll just. I'm gonna keep going.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I think you don't.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, I mean like I listen to Serious Rate XM and I have the presets. Like a lot of people have presets on radio. Ozzy's Boneyard is one of my presets. I go the Spectrum, classic vinyl, classic rewind. Chris Stapleton radio and Ozzy's Boneyard and the Bridge. I mean, how's the, how's that for an eclectic mix?

[Bradley Wiggins]

That's perfect.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, who jumps between the bridge? We're talking about James Taylor hall and Oates.

[Spencer Martin]

No Latino music in that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Zero, zero Latino music. And then one, one click over is Boneyard. We're going Pantera, we're going Metallica, we're going Ozzy, you know, Megadeth, we're going. You name it. I'm a well rounded.

[Spencer Martin]

What's on your playlist, Bradley?

[Bradley Wiggins]

A bit of everything.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, a bit of everything.

[Lance Armstrong]

Any Latin music?

[George Hincapie]

No.

[Spencer Martin]

No.

[Lance Armstrong]

Because with those short shorts you're going around town.

[Spencer Martin]

Hey, hey. I have video of him dancing in town. You probably have it somewhere.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So. So Jonathan Milan wins the stage.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Spencer's like, can we, can we?

[Spencer Martin]

I need to finally, you know, I can finally. I got something against the Encyclopedia. Like you said, there's no way they can control a break. I think they did a phenomenal job in letting four really strong guys go, but not panicking, keeping them within two minutes. Quinn Simmons, NVP of today's stage. What an incredible ride, Bradley. I mean, I don't know if you agree with me, but I was in shock of how strong he was today.

[George Hincapie]

It's his job, isn't it? You know, it's like praising the mailman.

[Spencer Martin]

You're three weeks into the Tour de.

[George Hincapie]

France, it's like praising the mailman for delivering your mail.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's Tad's job to win Flanders the Tour. So it's not. You don't have to praise him for it. He's just doing his job.

[Spencer Martin]

Look, it's his job, but not only is he controlling the breakaway, he's going after the. The breakaway, the counter attacks, he's. He's attacking himself and then he's going back on the front and pulling. I was extremely impressed with his.

[George Hincapie]

I think, I think the team. It showed when the team came across the line with him today just how much they. They valued his efforts.

[Spencer Martin]

Exactly.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Because it did. Yeah, they did a really good job. They. A lot of group go locked it down. They all blocked the road. The road was small enough that they could do it. And then it got dicey. Garrett Thomas, your friend was winding it up on the climb. Jonathan Milan dropped mid stage and then Quinn has to like weld it back together after that. Not then he's holding it together in the finish.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

When Wild Bernard's off the front. So I thought it was pretty impressive for me.

[Spencer Martin]

Super impressive.

[Lance Armstrong]

It must be getting tired. Like it's.

[Spencer Martin]

It doesn't look like it to me.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, that's right. But I agree with, with Bradley. Like, okay, right, of course. That's your job. But he's been at the front of the bike race more than pretty much anybody. I mean if they at the end.

[Spencer Martin]

Of the Tour he needs to win.

[Lance Armstrong]

Most aggressive, they will reward somebody with most aggressive rider or hard to argue against him, but he's human. Right. So he's. He's seemingly not getting tired, which is pretty guy's beast.

[George Hincapie]

According to Johann, that was. That was his specific job to come to the Tour to do that was the whole part of him coming to the Tour was on the agreeance that he does that job.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

Which is why when he was in the break two weeks ago now, was it two weeks best part, they weren't best pleased with him apparently because they.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, and we should say so that was super important work they probably were worried about because they knew they would need him for this.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Milan gets 11 points at the intermediate sprint because I believe he was fifth and then 50 points at the finish. He now is a lead. We have a listener, a mathematician that sent me a model so we can model out the green jersey battle.

[Lance Armstrong]

That shows you how. I mean we're. That's how big time we are.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean we're just chatting Live with.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Mathematicians and basically assuming, I think it's going to be hard for Milan to score points from here on in, maybe until Paris. But if it really comes down to like, if Picacho wins these mountain stages and wins in Paris, he wins green. If he doesn't, he doesn't win green. So it was a big day for little Trek and we were trying to find the last person to win the green jersey at the points jersey, the Chiclamino at the Giro and the green jersey at the Tour.

[Lance Armstrong]

In the same year.

[Bradley Wiggins]

In the same year. Because a lot like Mark Cavendish won it in adjacent years. Same with Peter Sagan. We could not find a single person that's done this. So it would be super impressive for history.

[Lance Armstrong]

History making.

[Spencer Martin]

And that's the way I see it. You know, Pogachar didn't go all in for winning mountain Ventu. He didn't go all in for winning Hatam. I think, I think he's going to go all in for winning Paris, in my opinion. And then I think there's going to be a chance of a breakaways in the next.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Who's the last yellow jersey?

[Spencer Martin]

You like that, right?

[George Hincapie]

You b.

[Spencer Martin]

Now think about how iconic that would be.

[Bradley Wiggins]

You know, maybe, I don't know. I think it was, you know, like on the, on the Sprint, on the shops, he broke away. That's pretty badass.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, it's pretty cool. I mean. Yeah, I think, I think you can say that word. Okay, we have to check with our, our friends over there, but I think we can say any word. I think we're just really, you know, being professional and mature and we're being ourselves. I don't know about that. We're being 90 of ourselves. You should have seen the pre show. You'd have seen the real me.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Because I was fired up about something that I'm thinking about talking about and I'm looking at my North Star. So Bradley and he's. We're gonna have a. I'm just.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And George over, he's like, yeah, yeah. I don't know if we should talk about that.

[Spencer Martin]

Do I talk like that? Really?

[Lance Armstrong]

Maybe. Maybe you saved that for the Tour de France fam of Ex wife. Is it exactly what you said?

[Spencer Martin]

Not the way that sounded.

[Lance Armstrong]

Can I say back to the mathematician who you're chatting with over there based on his math. We were talking about him before the show too. Does Poguchar. That's a whole nother discussion. Does Poguchar need to win all these mountain stages in Order for that math to play out, or does he just need to get a lot of points?

[Bradley Wiggins]

He would. He would. He would need to win both mountain stages. Assuming he does not take intermediate points. Okay. Which. That would be a little aggressive.

[Spencer Martin]

After the. After the break, we'll go through the. We'll break down the profile and see where the actual sprint is. And what are the chances of him actually being up there going for them.

[Bradley Wiggins]

How bad do you think he wants this green?

[Spencer Martin]

I can't imagine. I mean, I think he wants all three, but thinking about you guys, you would not even consider being. Of course not.

[Lance Armstrong]

But we're never even in a position.

[George Hincapie]

Just on Bernardino, he won twice on the Champs elysees in yellow 79 and 1982.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Wow. Pretty good bike rider.

[Lance Armstrong]

So. And by the way, too, this. You know, Jonathan Milan missed the crash today, but these crashes, I mean, he was, you know, a couple bike links. This changes the whole equation and conversation.

[Bradley Wiggins]

He's out of green.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, Tim Merlier is on the ground. Not. Not on the ground, but certainly misses out on the bunch sprint. You're just that close every day to every day.

[Spencer Martin]

And what's interesting about. I mean, Little Track is one of the most dominant teams this year. They controlled the whole race today, but both times, Jonathan Milan's won the stage of the Tour de France. He's by himself in the last 2K, bumping and grinding, doing his own thing. Super impressive that he's able to pull those wins off.

[Lance Armstrong]

We're going to go to a little break here for Peacock here right quick, but when we come back, our friend Michael White from the White Line will be with us to talk about. We talked. We had him on the show last year. Obviously, the terrible, tragic death of his son Magnus. But a lot of updates there, A lot of potential legislation. Folks, this should matter to each and every one of you who rides a bike, listening to or watching the show, because you're out there. You're out there every day, whether you know it or not, risking your life. Right. You're interacting with cars. We're going to hear from Michael and I'm looking forward to that. Right after the break. 2 and 32. All right, everybody, welcome back to the move. As I said right before the break, we are joined by Michael White. Michael, it. I think you're here on Zoom with us.

[Michael White]

Yes, I am.

[Lance Armstrong]

There he is. Hey, how are you?

[Michael White]

All right. All right. Challenging year since.

[Lance Armstrong]

Challenging year. It was. It was so moving having you on the show last year. I think for me, just as the host of the show. We get so many questions about American talent, up and coming talent. Obviously, Magnus was on that list. And just as a reminder for the listener, Magnus killed outside of Boulder on a training ride, which just as a parent, unspeakable, unimaginable. I guess the updates are, you guys had the trial took place. You can give us a snippet on that. And then. But I think moving forward, you've just been in. Kudos to you and your wife and everybody around you for being so active in Magnus's honor and making sure that. And as I said going into the break, I think it's safe to say that most people listening to this show ride their bikes. They ride them outside, they interact with cars. I think we all know that it can be dangerous, but we can do more, right? We can do more to help protect cyclists, not just in Colorado, but all over the United States. And so just to maybe bring us up to speed on what you're working on and certainly how we as a show and we as an audience can help.

[Michael White]

Yeah. So I mean, we're actually coming up on the two year mark, which is next week, because he was hit on July 29, 2023. It was his last ride before leaving for the world championships and in mountain biking that were in Scotland that year. And I said, yeah, we did go through the trial. That was at the end of March. It was a week long trial. They found the driver guilty of felony vehicular homicide and she was sentenced July, June 13 to four years in prison. And what came out of that, obviously, last time I was on the show, we were promoting ride for Magnus that we were doing and that really kicked off a lot of our legislative efforts. We had Representative Joe Negus from Colorado come speak and he pledged to bring a bill about automatic emergency braking. And he did. And he introduced it at the end of last year and reintroduced it in May this year. And for those of you that aren't familiar with it, it's named the Magnus White Cyclist Safety Act. It's house bill number 3364 9. And it's.

[Lance Armstrong]

And so, I mean, is that a state bill or a federal bill?

[Michael White]

This is a federal bill.

[Lance Armstrong]

So great.

[Michael White]

We were just in DC all last week meeting with representatives and congressmen to get their support behind the bill. And what the bill does is it requires automatic emergency braking and all new vehicles to detect pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and scooter riders, like lime scooters. There's a current National Highway Transportation Bill, nhtsa, not bill but ruling that requires new cars protect pedestrians. But that's not a law. That's just a ruling. This would be a law and it expands it to protect everybody outside the vehicle like that. And, you know, coming from what we learned in the case, you know, Mangus was hit from behind at 60 miles an hour and the driver passed out. And that's why there was a criminal element. There's criminal reasons why she passed out. You know, this could have saved Magnus life. Had, had, had. She had it in her car. And this technology exists, we know it exists in Europe and in China in Chinese vehicles.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's. I did a hit with, with Malcolm Gladwell not long ago talking about this very thing about autonomous vehicles, self driving vehicles. I mean, there is a future. Right. Where none of us drive. Right. Or certainly we might drive a little, but we're helped a lot. But that's, that's so anything. I guess my hope here is that any acceleration of that is just. Again, it's funny, I get asked all the time, you ever get scared out riding on the roads? And I do, like, I spent most of my career being followed by a car, being protected, not really worrying about what was coming behind me. But now when I go out, I'm just an old guy riding my bike and I get terrified. And I know that everybody watching or listening to the show has that same feeling. A lot of times now it depends upon the road you're on. Do you feel safe on a shoulder? Are you in a protected bike lane? But this is. We don't need things. We certainly don't need our children being taken from us, our greatest hopes in the sport of cycling being taken from us. But just as participants and as lovers of the sport, we don't want to go out and worry about that. So this is, this is God's work, man. I appreciate you doing it.

[Michael White]

Yeah, thank you. There's, you know, there's not enough bike lanes that can be built.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's right.

[Michael White]

And we know infrastructure is being cut left and right right now. So, you know, this is one way that, you know, this problem has to be tackled many ways. This is one way. And then the average life cycle of a car is 10 to 13 years. So within 10 to 13 years, all these vehicles can have AEB systems in them.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael White]

And death rates and crash rates can go way down.

[Lance Armstrong]

And just a reminder for the folks listening, this happened basically in Boulder, Colorado.

[Spencer Martin]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

This is. If you didn't know any better, you'd say this is the cycling Capital of America. Right. For lack of a better. I mean, a couple other spots, but this didn't happen in some redneck town in the middle of nowhere. This is Boulder. Right. So if it's happening there, it's happening everywhere. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

With a huge shoulder, too. So you would. If you're riding on that road, you'd think, oh, I'm on the shoulder, I'm fine. But it's like straight, straight road as well.

[Michael White]

There was just an Ironman, you know, a couple of weeks ago on the same road. So it's a very popular cycling route, designated bike route.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael White]

And you know. Yeah. I don't know if you printed out, but I handed you a list. And when we went with the senators and congressmen last week, Death of every cyclists. And then what I. What I said you guys was in the Austin area, Lance. And so your representative, Mike McCall, we met with. We met with him as well. And there were 454 fatalities of cyclists and pedestrians from 2001 to 2023. Just nine mentions in the media. And so no one really is aware of how big this problem is. Whereas, you know, Magnus, he's a big story and he's got. Has so far to date, over 6,000 news articles written about him and the work we've been doing in his name. And so if we can use. If we can use Magnus to change things, use him as a catalyst.

[Lance Armstrong]

Beast.

[Michael White]

Yeah, let's. Let's do it.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, give us a call to action. I mean, I want to make sure folks are, you know, I mean, this is such a. You're learning the game. Oh, yes. Fast. The game of dealing with politics and politicians and legislation and how it all works. But if there's anything. I mean, I think this kind of comes down to the individual listeners being made aware and just sort of either flooding the phone lines or just making sure that their representatives are aware that this matters to them. So if there's anything the move listener can do, then, then please let us know.

[Michael White]

We have lots of Democratic co sponsors on the bill. We have the companion bill that's going to be sponsored by Senator Hickenlooper and Senator Andy Kim out of New Jersey. But what they can do is we need the first Republican to get on. We met with a lot of Republicans out in D.C. and they are all supportive of it. But D.C. is politics, and we got to play that game, and they have to play that game. So we really need the first Republican to get on, and then it'll be a truly bipartisan bill because it is Life and death in this situation is not partisan.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. And then go to the website to help support or to get information.

[Michael White]

Yeah, exactly. You can learn about the bill there and go into details. It's not a long, incredibly long bill. It's only one page long.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Is that thewhiteline.org Michael?

[Michael White]

Yes, yes. The white line.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, folks, so that's it. So it's the whiteline.org. that's all you got to know. And that'll kind of help you navigate. George, you know. You know all these Republicans.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, George.

[Lance Armstrong]

George is from South Carolina. He knows all these. I'm from Texas. I should. I should talk.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Michael, thank you so much. And. And as always, just so. It's a horrible story. Horrible story. But again, you're doing great work, and Magnus's honor, and we will always support that. So thank you for coming on. Thanks for the. For just the. The incredible effort. You bet.

[Michael White]

Thank you, guys.

[Lance Armstrong]

Thanks, brother.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, thanks, Michael.

[Lance Armstrong]

Bye. Bye. That. Yeah, that's just. I'm serious. Like, when I go ride in Austin, like, you. Y' all just go check out my Strava. Like, you see me, like, you got to zoom in. I'm. I'm finding sidewalks, back road alleyways. Go early, like, freaks me out. I. I get. I. I do. I mean, you probably still ride with, like a follow car and, like, bottles of food. And George out there training, doing 4 to 20s. You know, he's got the team behind him. I'm just an old man. I mean, I'm serious. I ride with a light on my. I'm. Dude, that's why I love the mountain bike.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

No cars. Like, it just freaks me out.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Speaking of mountain bike, George dang strong army yesterday to go ride with him again. And it's trying. Yeah. I said, yeah, you remember, you text me, like, what you want? I said yes.

[Spencer Martin]

I said yes. I was kind of shocked. He wasn't expecting it.

[Lance Armstrong]

He's like, wait, is this the right number?

[Spencer Martin]

And we had a fun ride.

[Lance Armstrong]

We had a fun ride. So we're out there ripping around, and we come up. We're in Sky Mountain park, which is just not. Not far from the studio. Great single track out there. And I. I know they police this Sky Mountain park for E bikes.

[Spencer Martin]

I did not know that until yesterday.

[Lance Armstrong]

And you see the. The park rangers out there a lot. So we come up at the top of Viewline Trail, and there's this park ranger sitting right there. And I had a rule that if we're going to go out, I Ride in the front on the single track so I can dictate the pace and not suffer too much. Just a little suffer.

[Spencer Martin]

And, and we all know Lance is very unsociable. So I started a conversation with the park ranger.

[Lance Armstrong]

So we get up there and I say to Leia, said, ma', am, you need to check this, this guy's, I believe he's on an E bike. I said to the park ranger, and I'm not sure if she's figuring it out yet, but she says, you know, we catch a lot of people up here on ebikes. And I said, oh, I know, I've heard. And she said, well, you guys were coming up really fast. Yeah, it almost fooled me. She said, I didn't know if it was Max Tam or Lance Armstrong at this point. I'm like, oh boy, time for us to get going. And of course, George like, well, this is Lance Armstrong. I didn't know. I don't know if she knew or not. Anyhow, she says, oh, that's funny. She said, I ticketed two ladies last summer in Sky Mountain Park. And their excuse, their only excuse was that Lance Armstrong told me I could ride my E bike up here. That's what they said.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I'm like, you know, that's pretty perfect for cycling. Yeah, let's just blame it all on old Lance.

[Bradley Wiggins]

That's pretty clever. Like that's good excuse making in the moment, right? You get caught and it's like they.

[Spencer Martin]

Still got tickets though.

[Lance Armstrong]

I remember a story speaking of Boulder and I don't know if this, you live there, Spencer, but this is going back 20, 30 years ago. But if you went down to Boulder PD and you know, because guys, people would back then ride with no phone, no ID and whatever, you run or roll a stop sign or whatever, you get ticketed. The amount of unpaid tickets in Boulder county for a certain Eddie Merckx was like astronomical. These guys get pulled over and be like, I don't have my id, My name's Eddie. I don't know if that's true. I heard that story a long time ago.

[George Hincapie]

A lot of them are yours.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, you can actually roll stop signs now. You don't have to stop.

[Lance Armstrong]

You can roll them here in the city of Aspen.

[Bradley Wiggins]

That's nice.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I know all these cranky people. You didn't stop.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Yo, we gotta look.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't have to stop.

[Spencer Martin]

We gotta do that in South Carolina.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, Just make sure there's not a car coming.

[Lance Armstrong]

South Carolina, they're still driving around looking for that balloon. Now, whatever y' all do, don't. Do not go shoot the balloon. Remember that? They had this balloon. We couldn't figure out what it was.

[Spencer Martin]

Are you imitating my neighbor right now?

[Lance Armstrong]

Were you on that? Were you? This the governor? Where are we going? The governor came out and said, folks, no matter what you do, do not go out and try to shoot the balloon. That's what they said in the state of South Carolina.

[Spencer Martin]

Hey, it's a great place to live.

[Lance Armstrong]

Today's show brought to you by Ketone iq. If y' all couldn't tell, I had. I had a couple ketones this morning before I rolled down to the gym. I'm on one today. I'm on one today. And I blame Ketone iq. I took the classic shot. I didn't need any more caffeine. They do have a caffeinated option. 5 grams of ketones plus 100 milligrams of caffeine. I love it. I don't start a day or a workout anytime without it. Scientific research totally backs it up. The numbers don't lie. Sprint power boosted by 19%. Peak power, 13% fatigue, 10% faster recovery, improved blood flow, et cetera, et cetera. Take your shot. Get 20% off your [e-mail] themove and use the code. The move. Boom. Last one of the day. Join. Join. Join me here, George. Are you ready to unlock your cycling potential? Join is the number one training app that puts a professional cycling coach right in your pocket. You don't need a big goal to benefit from training. Join helps you stay fit, focused and consistent even when there's no event in sight. Join keeps it interesting with challenges, variety and smart progression. Over 400 world tour level workouts for road, mountain bike and gravel. Join creates personalized training plans that adapt to your schedule and performance in real time. Designed by experts with World Tour level experience, Join helps cyclists of all levels maximize progress while avoiding over training. Join is your number one cycling training app. You can now test it out 30 days for free download Join today and improve your ride. 30 days free. What else?

[Spencer Martin]

Tomorrow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Tomorrow stage. No, we were kicking it around before the show. Every Grand Tour has what they call the Queen Stage, the Welta, la Taparena, the Giro, I don't know, whatever. At the heart, this looks to be perhaps the queen stage. Sure. 5,400 meters of climbing. Three HC climbs on the shorter side too, right? Look at that. 171K. That's. I mean, in. We could go down and break.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, that's not shorter because those climbs are long.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, you've got hours wise, but total up the HCS, you've got 171 total kilometers of the stage, 2140. You've got 66 kilometers of it going uphill. It was pretty nasty.

[Spencer Martin]

And that's, that's the hardest climb I've done in Europe. That cold little lows. I did it last year. I don't know if Gabrielle's.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, let's break down. Let's. Let's look at Glandone first because it's not exactly. It's a stair stepper, but.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, so.

[Lance Armstrong]

You get some relief at certain times. This is just a little, this little warm up. And then you hit the second climb of the day. Amount of land, there's no, no, no reprieve at all. Almost 20 kilometers long at 8%. And then to the climb you just referenced George. Did I ever do that?

[Spencer Martin]

Because you've done Courchevel. But there's a new road. The last 6km or 4-6km is a new road that they just built a couple years ago. And there's ramps of like 14, 15. Super wide open. It is really.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And the altitude is very high.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, very high. And not only that, but you go back to the profile. Cuz I'm pretty sure when I did it last year. Yeah, like the actual climb starts and it's like a 25k climb, but before that you climb like 5k to get to the actual climb. So this is insane.

[Lance Armstrong]

Officially the final climb is 26.4km, which is a long ways. Yeah, I mean that's.

[Spencer Martin]

And there's like gradual 5k climbing before you get to that. But go back because I also wanted to point out the other huge race that's going on is the green jersey race. And if you see like it's not that far at the stage, 23km into the stage, a guy like Jonathan Milan goes full gas to get this. He may not make the time cut. So this is gonna be interesting because.

[Bradley Wiggins]

The climbers are all going to be going.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, because he's been getting, he's one of the first guys getting dropped right now. So if he goes all out for that point sprint, which he might have to, I mean he might not make the time cut. So that's gonna, it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens now. If his whole team waits for him and they kind of pace him throughout the day, he'll make it, but it's going to be very tough.

[Lance Armstrong]

And if they enforce the time Cap.

[Spencer Martin]

And if they enforce it, you finished.

[George Hincapie]

At Courchevel in 2005.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's all. Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

Valverde won.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Not. Not.

[Spencer Martin]

But not all the way up. Not all the way up. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And George, you remember when it was like Vindergaard was going to win, but the moto stalled and Felix Gall won and they finished in. They, like, descended into Courchevel from Lowe's. Was it the opposite side of this?

[Spencer Martin]

I'm pretty sure it was the opposite side.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. So this side, you go up through the. All the Courchevel villages. It's beautiful, like, cool towns. And then you get up. Last 6k is like middle of nowhere. Steep ramps. 15. I did it with our boy Poppy last year. Very impressive. Very impressive.

[Lance Armstrong]

By the way, 2 courchevels is like the Aspen of France. That's where all them.

[Spencer Martin]

That's where all the. I don't want to go skiing there.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm sure you do.

[Spencer Martin]

Anybody has a place in Quartzville, hit me up. I'm America's favorite house guest.

[Lance Armstrong]

The man's being serious. Part B and C to that part B. Jizzy's accepted. Please. And part C. Gofundme on my new bike, too.

[Spencer Martin]

Correct.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I was thinking how nice it'd be just final stage Sunday. Just walk across the street, get in a Jizzy to go home. That'd be pretty nice. I finally got the appeal of the.

[Spencer Martin]

Private jet when I envisioned that that would be nice. Are we still 15 teams without winning a stage?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, because a little truck.

[Spencer Martin]

Still 15 teams without winning stage tomorrow. It's gonna be a madhouse to get in that breakaway, but a lot of these guys are gonna go in it. Lenny Martinez has got to get in there to get the.

[Bradley Wiggins]

The K1 points.

[Spencer Martin]

K1 points. Gonna be interesting.

[Lance Armstrong]

Be a fun stat to look up, because you can see you just look forward for the next few days through Paris. I mean, you can kind of predict which of these. We certainly almost predict which riders will win, but you could certainly start to predict which teams will win. What's the record for amount of teams that did not win a stage in any Tour de France? I mean, 15. It's going to stay 13, 14, 15. So that. That. That seems like that might be a.

[Bradley Wiggins]

High number if we've juiced it a little bit because there's an extra team this year. They added an extra team at the last second, so. But still, even if you discount that.

[Spencer Martin]

So. And we. We've gone the whole tour without a French team win. Correct.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

With.

[Spencer Martin]

So Francis, you Decathlon, our total energies. Okay, Archaea. So five teams without a friend, like without a win. It's very important.

[George Hincapie]

Who was the team they added on was.

[Lance Armstrong]

It would have been, we know, maybe Two Door.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It was Two Door. And it's weird because isn't Two Door the official timing sponsor of the Tour?

[Lance Armstrong]

That's not actually not weird at all.

[Bradley Wiggins]

That's strange.

[Lance Armstrong]

I have a question for Sir Bradley because there was, and you guys will remember this, in our generation, the teams were nine rider teams, which makes you try to win a yellow jersey, defend a yellow jersey. It just makes it a little bit easier. Of course, years ago they went down probably in order to allow another, yet another team into the race, they took it down to eight riders per team. Thoughts on that?

[George Hincapie]

I mean, it makes it a lot more difficult.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yes, it does.

[George Hincapie]

You know, if you take out your GC guy, that means you've got seven riders. If you've got a sprinter in there, you've got six guys that can control the race. I preferred it when it was nine crashes.

[Lance Armstrong]

I agree, I agree.

[George Hincapie]

This is, it's funny going back to 1995, the first, the year before Bjarna won the Tour. And of course Telecoms then dominance for the two years with Jan as well. In 95, ZG Mobiley merged with Telecom for the Tour de France. They had three riders for Telecom and five, six riders for ZG Mobiley that year. It was the only time they've ever done it. They've combined two teams.

[Spencer Martin]

Didn't the Colombian national team do that with another team at some point in the 80s? In the 80s with Fabio Para and all those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't they merge with a. I feel like they did. Or did they have a full squad empower one of stage? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Hincapie]

I roomed with his brother.

[Spencer Martin]

Okay.

[George Hincapie]

At the Tour with confidence.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I do remember, I think these French teams not winning, probably not going to win if we're being completely honest. Like, what stage is they're going to win?

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But like, did you notice who the last man standing was today? Jonas Ober, Hunson. Like, it's always the same aggressive people. Like, I'm trying to be diplomatic with this. Is there, is there a mentality in these teams where it's like, oh, poor us, we're just here riding along, we don't stand a chance versus, like, why don't you get out there like.

[George Hincapie]

Well, as I said, I think there's too much pressure. They, they put too much pressure on themselves and it starts building as the Tour goes On. Particularly with a Frenchman winning yesterday who's on another team. That doesn't help the cause.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

But you see a. They call it a lottery pick like Unox. They're affecting the race. So in hindsight, hey. To be in. But you could even. I mean Arkea. I mean Vakolan has been a factor. I mean he's been in the race. So. Okay. Team like Kofris, I don't know, I mean every now and again you'll see him on tv. Right?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Not. Not affecting the race.

[George Hincapie]

They caused the crash today.

[Bradley Wiggins]

If we go back, there's stages.

[Spencer Martin]

In the first, I think it was Franca.

[George Hincapie]

Well, both of them then.

[Spencer Martin]

Both of them. Yeah. There.

[Lance Armstrong]

There's a program that's got some answering to do. Right. Francis? I was struggling to think of another. I mean that's a team that. I couldn't even think of it. No. Right. This is a, this is a long running team led by a complete blabbermouth Mark Matteo who must just be going, just ripping at these guys every night and. But they're not having anything to do with the bike race at all.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But there's stages in the first week where they're not in the breakaways. It's like, like, look at Unox. It's just like always on the front foot.

[George Hincapie]

Shooter as well.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

You know.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

With a Frenchman in Julian as well. He's played a big, big part. He was there yesterday.

[Lance Armstrong]

I feel like they've been in the race. They have been.

[George Hincapie]

Hershey was trying again today.

[Lance Armstrong]

Y always.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. Like they had a good ride on Bond too. They didn't win, but they're just there on the front.

[Lance Armstrong]

Two guys in the break the other day. Gave it, gave it everything. I mean I, I'm down with that.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Totally cool that people really want to get into the weeds. Picnic Post gets third today on the stage. A lot of UCI points. So now they're like they're the last promoted team and then Cofidis is out of the promotion zone in the relegation. Right. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And they're going to. At the. With Oscar Onley at the finish.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep.

[Lance Armstrong]

A lot of points, I would imagine. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Maybe ends up fourth or third, fourth, fifth and on gc.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So it's a huge amount of points.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

There you go. Time for the Ventum Daily Trivia. Yesterday's question. 2016 race leader and eventual winner Chris Froome famously ran up a portion of the slopes of M von 2. Big controversy here on set. Why was he forced to run? This is not A tricky one. Answer. His bike was badly damaged in a crash involving a moto and crowded roads. That does happen. Yeah. Shouldn't happen.

[Spencer Martin]

And our boy. Our boy, Thomas Dimitrov was in the car following him for his 50th birthday. That was kind of a special day for him.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow. Stage 17 question. The Rhone Valley location of Stage 17 is known for peloton breaking winds. What flow formation do riders form to try and combat the winds? This one even. I know that one. It's a peloton. No, no, it's not a peloton. That one's. That one's a dia. That one's a little easy on the easy side. We're just giving money away. What is the formation they form to protect themselves from the wind? I do get a lot of questions about the wind.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. Wind is. Do you guys want it? The rule is a rider is not allowed to advance on the course without their bicycle.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I would invite anyone to watch that footage and tell me if that happened or not. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go. I'm flying to Switzerland tonight. We need to.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, you're not.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But did you actually.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, you've got another.

[Spencer Martin]

10 days ago.

[Bradley Wiggins]

No, I. I dug into this.

[George Hincapie]

12 days.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, there could be.

[Lance Armstrong]

Kitty. Kitty.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I dug into this last night and apparently sky had a spin doctor who went. He's like now like a political spin doctor.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like the old band, the One Hit Wonder.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. And his line was, you have to give the commissars the. You have to solve the commissary's problem for them. Give them the answer. And so like after the stage, they all go in and they're like. They're probably like, oh, my God, what do we do?

[George Hincapie]

Who was that? What was that guy's name? Alistair Campbell?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

So he was Tony Blairs back.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew Alistair a long time ago.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So it's just kind of like a club. A little funny backstory to that where it's like giving them a simple solution that solves the problem of the decision.

[George Hincapie]

In other words, hypnosis, Kind of.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

You will do what we say.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But that. That also shows that the FIST sophistication that INEOS or Sky was operating at versus FDJ probably doesn't have that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Questions.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, first question for you guys. What happens tomorrow? This is from Spencer in Boulder.

[Lance Armstrong]

Who wins tomorrow?

[Spencer Martin]

I'm gonna say it's just some renegade climber that has nothing to lose and is going to get in the breakaway and hopefully Get a, a big time gap. But at the same time it's very unpredictable. It's very unpredictable because I mean, Jonas is going to want to win a stage.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Is he?

[Spencer Martin]

He's. I think so. He's gonna want to win a stage. Yeah, yeah. And it's gonna be very hard to control. And by just. But by the route, the, the, if a breakaway does get away, the field still has to go really hard because they're not gonna go easy up these climbs. So I can't imagine a breakaway getting a lot of time. And that last climb is like I said, the hardest climb I've ever done. So even if they break away, arrives there with two, three minutes. We saw what's happened in the past. The, the field with the GC favorites can catch them.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay, here's the question. Does, does, does Jonas Vingegaard, does he care that much about getting second? Because for me I wouldn't care.

[Spencer Martin]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Second place, first place, loser. I don't care. So. And if you believe what you hear and watch them say in the post race interviews, well, the quote is something to the effect of, well, we have to try something. Right. If I think back to 2001, early in the stage, of course, later in the stage we went over. But early in the stage, Pantani goes away. I mean, in that seven year run, there was there only one time where in my mind I was like, oh, what do we do now?

[Spencer Martin]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And that was. And you would have, if you listen into the race, communicate or you know, our radio communication. I was like, what is going on here? What do we do? Do we have My point here is, is if he doesn't, if he cares about getting second, he should just follow the wheel. If, if his only goal is to win the Tour or Get17, doesn't matter, you have it's all in for the win then. Is there not a world where he goes on the medal end? I mean. And what does Tate do?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, well, I mean we saw yesterday.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's just, it's just a scenario. I'm not, I mean, but if, but.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It has happened before.

[Lance Armstrong]

We have.

[George Hincapie]

The Tormaletani did it in 98, but.

[Spencer Martin]

I think there's no doubt he's going to try something and he's going to send his team to go in the breakaway early on and he's going to try the same sort of zero tactic.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, this waiting to the end.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I can't do that with the.

[Lance Armstrong]

Best rider of all time in the Tour de France and maybe in the sport and, or in the sport, that's not going to work. I mean, now you're just praying and hoping for a bad day, which seems lame. There might be a scenario that he sends it early.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, in 2023, he attacks over the Tourmalet like a long way from the finish. Picachar follows him. Just the two of them. Wabanart's waiting. Oh, my God, this is amazing. And then Picacho waxes him on the final climb.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So they're.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, it only works if he gets away.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Can. Does that happen in cycling anymore? I don't know if they're climbing at 6 watts per kilo on these early climbs. Can you get away?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, Jonas is saying he usually gets stronger. The third week we saw his performance yesterday, he was right on par with Poachar. So maybe he takes. Tries to take advantage. Maybe Poachar's illness is creeping up on him. Who knows? But we'd love to see some more exciting racing.

[Lance Armstrong]

I. I think it's really clear. I think if they mean what they say, that quote unquote, we have to try something, and all they care about is winning. I'm sort of assuming on that one.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Then you got to mix it up. And maybe I'm saying this selfishly because it would make for incredible TV and make for a hell of a race.

[George Hincapie]

And on the climb, like Von2 yesterday, if they were to turn around at the top, come back down and do it again, would you have the same result or does Jonas drop him? I mean, I don't think he does.

[Spencer Martin]

But I don't think he does.

[George Hincapie]

You know, multiple climbs. He's got to start early.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, the problem, too, with their strategy is when they have these guys wait, like on BON two.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But the problem is Benut's pace is letting Pagacha rest.

[George Hincapie]

Exactly. So you got. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

You have to get away from Pagachar and then get to your teammate. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, I don't know.

[Spencer Martin]

I'll see you tomorrow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, we should. Maybe the YouTubers will chime in on that one.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Here's one just. I. Sometimes we. We lose contact with the common person. So Debbie wrote in. I think this is a very good, simple question.

[Lance Armstrong]

George loses contact with the common person. Everybody else on the set here is. Is a man of the people.

[Bradley Wiggins]

George asked me what a grocery store was the other day.

[Lance Armstrong]

He was years ago. No, years ago, homeboy.

[Spencer Martin]

Wait, Spencino's jumping on the bandwagon?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Funny is word neighbors not in. In the least fancy years ago.

[Lance Armstrong]

All of a sudden, I didn't Even know they delivered groceries. This was like early, early days of grocery delivery. And George like this, just like 18 Wheeler pulls up with groceries, and I was like, what the is going on here? And George is online ordering grocery. Anyways. Go ahead. For Debbie.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So for those of us who pop into the sport only to watch the Tour of France, it seems odd to have Taday sitting on the wheel of Jonas and others for the whole race and then sprints at the end to win with this strategy. It seems like Jonas is just being a great teammate for Tede, pulling him the whole way. That's not a bad point. Debbie, can you explain why Jonas doesn't sit on Tadde's wheel and follow the same tactic? Why would that not work?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, she's figured out the Tour de France tactics was what Lisa's doing wrong.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. Debbie's a special advisor to.

[Lance Armstrong]

She's right. She's right. But.

[Spencer Martin]

She's right.

[Lance Armstrong]

But, but, but just keep in mind, I mean, you're. We are talking about the goat, and it's. It's his game, and people got to play by his. He's that good. It's hard. It's easy for us to sit around and kick around and other people to ask about, but it's hard to defend. This is just. Goes back to what I said a second ago. Mix it up. I don't know.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, and if you. If you sit on his wheel, he's just going to ride a Pace that's comfortable for him. He'll never get in trouble. Yeah. Visma has to try to make him uncomfortable so they can drop them because.

[Spencer Martin]

Ua will ride poker, Charles, pace, whatever he wants, and they'll be in even more control. They have to do something.

[Lance Armstrong]

Still has a. A team that can support him. There's other teams in the race that are going to be supporting their interests. Right. Whether it's fight for the podium, Team GC, fight for the top 10. You're always going to find folks that these aren't individual time trials. Every day there's always politics and posturing that goes on within the peloton.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

So. And interest.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And they have to keep trying. I mean, we, like, we're. I don't want to make it sound like we're clowning on Visma. It's like they've got to try something.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Let's see. That's what. That's what they start for.

[George Hincapie]

Sweet.

[Lance Armstrong]

That it? Debbie's the last one. All right, well, we'll be back tomorrow for the Queen Stage 50. Almost 5,500 meters of climbing. Nasty. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see all tomorrow, Sam.