Are Injuries to Key Rivals Setting Up a Pogačar & Van der Poel-Dominated Spring? | THEMOVE+

Summary

THEMOVE+ (February 6, 2026) Podcast Summary

Episode: Are Injuries to Key Rivals Setting Up a Pogačar & Van der Poel-Dominated Spring?
Host: Spencer Martin (guest-hosting; Lance Armstrong not present)
Co-Host: Johan Bruyneel
Theme: With early-season injuries hitting major rivals, the show examines if Tadej Pogačar and Mathieu van der Poel are poised for unrivaled dominance in the upcoming Spring Classics and Tour de France. The episode also touches on early season race results, young emerging cycling talent, race tactics, rider schedules, and addresses listener questions about training, racing, and team dynamics.

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1. Main Theme & Purpose

This episode assesses the state of the men’s pro cycling peloton at the start of the 2026 racing season. With injuries to stars like Mads Pedersen, Wout van Aert, and Jonas Vingegaard, the conversation centers around whether Pogačar and van der Poel could sweep the Spring Classics and the Tour de France. The hosts provide analysis of recent race results (notably Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana), discuss up-and-coming riders, consider team strategies in light of injuries, and respond to listener queries on racing and training.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early-Season Crashes and Injury Fallout

• Mads Pedersen: Crashed at Valenciana, breaking his left wrist and right collarbone. Classic’s preparation now in jeopardy.
  • "Broken bones beginning of February...he will probably be able to get to the start of the Classics. Maybe not Milan-San Remo, but probably Flanders and Roubaix. But obviously, the whole preparation is derailed now." – Johan Bruyneel (22:18)
• Wout van Aert: Recently had ankle surgery post-crash. Recovery surprisingly rapid, already back on the bike (23:00).
• Jonas Vingegaard: Recent crash on training descent; banged up but no broken bones. Withdrawn from UAE Tour; expected to bounce back quickly.
  • "Having no broken bones after a crash, it's a success unless you have a severe concussion." – Johan Bruyneel (37:41)
• Mathieu van der Poel: Reported skiing, which hosts note is high-risk but argue that his team lets him decompress this way for his mental balance, evidently without negative results (38:23).

Pogačar & Van der Poel: Coming Dominance?

• With other top riders injured or recovering, the path may be clear for Pogačar and van der Poel to dominate the Classics and potentially the Tour.
  • "If he [van der Poel] gets hurt, we might be hurdling towards the thing I predicted in our end of year show where I said Pogačar is going to sweep the Classics and win the Tour de France." – Spencer Martin (00:53)
• The dominance of multi-discipline, all-terrain superstars (Pogačar, van der Poel, Evenepoel) is reinforced by their careful race selection and ability to arrive at peak condition without extensive race days.

Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana: Early Race Recap & Analysis

• Andrew “AJ” August: Wins Stage 3, his first pro victory at just 20 years old.
  • "For him to attack in the downhill towards the finish, that means you have to be with the first guys on top of the climb. If you're hanging on for dear life, you're not attacking downhill." – Johan Bruyneel (06:13)
• Remco Evenepoel: Time trial world champ, wins TT (neutralized for GC due to wind), cements leadership at Red Bull–Quick-Step.
  • "There's a new sheriff in the house at Red Bull and it's called Remco Evenepoel." – Johan Bruyneel (11:08)
• Ben Turner (Ineos): Noted for strong time trial (fourth), highlighting versatility. Background includes top junior cyclocross results (12:18).
• Biniam Girmay: Early win for new team NSN (14:13), suggests improved environment and spirit.

Rider Development & Challenges of Turning Pro Early

• Conversation around AJ August’s breakthrough and Quinn Simmons’ experiences of turning professional right out of juniors:
  • "I was maybe one of the best junior riders of all time … went pro and I struggled quite a bit… couldn't imagine being less good than I was and going from juniors to the pros." – paraphrased from Quinn Simmons (07:44)
  • Early pros often endure “getting beat up” for seasons before adapting.

Team Tactics Amid Sudden Injuries

• Trek-Lidl: With Pedersen injured, will they bring Quinn Simmons back to the Classics squad as co-leader or maintain his focus on hilly races like Amstel Gold? The hosts discuss the difficulty of reshuffling goals on short notice.
  • "This is now an opportunity for other riders... they can't say, okay, we're doing the whole race around this leader and we want on the podium." – Johan Bruyneel (31:19)
  • Simmons prefers focusing on races he thinks he can win: "I can win Amstel, but I maybe can't win Flanders." – paraphrased from Simmons’ recent interview (32:47)

Altitude Camps, Indoor Training, and Old vs. New Training Approaches

• Bad weather in Southern Spain leads teams (e.g. Uno-X) to do long indoor trainer sessions at altitude.
  • "I think that's not the norm for Uno-X... if you're outside in Sierra Nevada right now and you want to do altitude training, you're gonna have to be on Zwift because the weather is horrible." – Johan Bruyneel (43:59)
• Differences in approach: UAE and other teams might scale back altitude camps, but for some (especially Norwegians), it's become standard, weather challenges notwithstanding.
• Question raised: “Are riders losing the art of racing from too many numbers-based training camps and not enough race days?” Hosts admit it may affect race instinct, especially in positioning and reflexes (47:20).

Listener Q&A: Memorable Segments

1. Is focus on controlled training diminishing racing skills?
   • Hosts acknowledge fewer race days can remove some of the automatic anticipations and "race feel" but cite equipment (disc brakes, fast bikes) as just as big a driver of crash prevalence (47:20–50:00).
2. Why does Pogačar’s season start at Strade Bianche?
   • Top stars target only races they feel they can win; racing less but at a higher level is the trend (53:57).
3. Nature breaks in races: Stopping is preferred, but sometimes the situation demands going on the bike—timing and wind direction are everything (57:18–58:15).
4. How do teams monitor riders training away from camps?
   • Training is tracked via software (TrainingPeaks), and pros generally require little oversight due to professionalism (59:45).
5. What breed is Bobby (Johan’s dog)?
   • Longhaired Kaninchen Dachshund. (56:15)
6. Emphasis on Pogačar’s altitude home training vs. racing UAE Tour: As a team leader, he now enjoys the flexibility to prep as he likes (65:11).

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If he [van der Poel] gets hurt, we might be hurdling towards the thing I predicted ... where I said Pogačar is going to sweep the Classics and win the Tour de France.” — Spencer Martin (00:53)
• “There's a new sheriff in the house at Red Bull and it's called Remco Evenepoel.” — Johan Bruyneel (11:08)
• “It's not the biggest race but, it's not nothing.” — Spencer Martin on early season wins (15:17)
• “They can't replace Mads, so they can't say, okay, we're doing the whole race around this leader and we want on the podium, which would be the objective of Lidl-Trek. Right. They can't do that with these riders.” — Johan Bruyneel (31:19)
• “I can win Amstel, but I maybe can't win Flanders.” — paraphrased from Quinn Simmons (32:47)
• “Having no broken bones after a crash, it's a success unless you have a severe concussion. But other than that, it's fine, you know.” — Johan Bruyneel (37:41)
• “If you're outside in Sierra Nevada right now and you want to do altitude training, you’re gonna have to be on Zwift because the weather is horrible.” — Johan Bruyneel (43:59)

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4. Important Segments & Timestamps

• Injuries to rivals & early-season dominance discussion: 00:53–02:28, 22:13–24:18, 37:52–40:28
• Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana recap & young talent talk: 03:45–14:13
• Team dynamics: Trek-Lidl & Quinn Simmons situation: 28:13–34:35
• Race tactics vs. training science (listener question): 47:20–50:44
• Mathieu van der Poel’s risky skiing & team trust: 38:23–40:21
• Altitude training, indoor riding tech, and team approaches: 42:06–46:16
• Nature break question: 57:18–59:01
• Monitoring pro riders’ remote training: 59:45–61:45

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5. Tone & Style

The episode maintains a conversational, lightly irreverent but highly informed tone. Spencer Martin brings informed, stats-driven observations; Johan Bruyneel delivers old-school experience, anecdotes, and a director’s eye for the practical realities of pro cycling.

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6. Conclusion

The episode paints the early 2026 season as one fraught with opportunity for the sport’s most dominant all-rounders. The Mix of injuries among top rivals, the strategic minimization of race days by superstars like Pogačar and van der Poel, and the occasional breakthrough from young talent portend a season that might lack depth in the winner’s list, barring further surprises. Listeners are left with the sense that the mayhem of racing cannot be entirely replaced by the science of training, a sentiment echoing Bruyneel's seasoned wisdom.

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Timestamps Quick Reference

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------|---------------| | Major injuries and Pogačar/VDP threat | 00:53–02:28 | | AJ August & youth development | 03:45–08:10 | | Remco, Ben Turner, Girmay praise | 10:54–15:15 | | Trek-Lidl Mads/Quinn Simmons tactics | 28:13–34:35 | | Early-season race analysis | 16:11–19:39 | | Altitude/indoor training discussion | 42:06–46:16 | | Race-day skills vs. training science | 47:20–50:44 | | Nature break stories | 57:18–59:01 | | How teams track training remotely | 59:45–61:45 | | Pogačar selective racing trend | 53:57–55:02 |

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For New Listeners

This summary captures the episode’s blend of timely pro cycling news, strategic discussion, and insider anecdotes—ideal for those seeking a deep but digestible catch-up on the 2026 early cycling season, the dynamics of the Spring Classics, and how cycling’s new era of superstars is reshaping rider preparation, team tactics, and fan expectations.

Transcript

[Spencer Martin]

The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today I've just listed two of PGatro's biggest rivals. One in Classics, one in Grand Tours. Both suffering crashes, one with very intense injury problems. W Benart already had surgery on his ankle. Where is Matthew Vanderpoel? Because if if he gets hurt we might be hurdling towards the thing I predicted in our end of year show where I said Picacho is going to sweep the Classics and win the Tour de France.

[Johan Berneil]

The last footage I've seen of Matthew Vanderpool was he was going down the ski slopes in Livinho.

[Spencer Martin]

I don't like to hear that. That's not good. Everybody. Welcome back to the MOVE plus our weekly show where we go through all the important cycling news and now some of the racing results that the racing has started in in earnest. I'm Spencer Martin, I'm here with Johan Berneil and we are breaking it all down. Johan, I'm going to ask you about Volta Valenciana. It's wild bege the Mads Pedersen injury. Jonas not racing UAE more and we're taking questions from members and if you can watch this live if you're a member and if you are on the members portal, click through to the YouTube app and you'll see the live chat. You can throw chats in or questions in there and we'll get to them at the end of the episode. But first Johan, instead of hearing from our partners, let's hear from our most important our most important Supporter that's there with you right now.

[Johan Berneil]

We got some.

[Spencer Martin]

Here's my assistant. He's.

[Johan Berneil]

He's been a few weeks off the move plus, but here he is, Mr. Bobby. Bobby Brunel is back. He's changed a bit. So he's not a tiny, tiny puppy anymore. He's. He's a teenager now. Just woke up from a nap. So here he is. Bobby, say hi to everybody. Look, Bobby, say hi. Hi members. Hi, everybody. You gonna go back? I'm gonna go back to take a nap. Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Are you taking Bobby on the trip next week or does he have to stay home?

[Johan Berneil]

He comes everywhere.

[Spencer Martin]

Nice.

[Johan Berneil]

Comes everywhere. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, that's what's underrated about the smaller dog. He can travel.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, he's, you know, he's either, it's crazy. He's either next to laying next to me when I sit down in the bed, is either with me or with Christian, with my son. It sleeps with us and it's. Yeah, it's. I cannot even go privately to the bathroom anymore. He's just sitting there and just. It's crazy. Crazy. But he's, he's a, he's a really good dog.

[Spencer Martin]

Hey, Bobby, it's like having little kids. They'll just follow you into the bathroom. No privacy.

[Johan Berneil]

Back to your main occupation, taking naps.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, Johan, we. So we had our up and comers show on, on Monday and we talked about, we, we didn't. He's been named previously, so he's not eligible for a draft. But we talked about 20 year old AJ August on. On Ineos and we said he had not, he had not won. He had kind of stagnated in his second year as a professional. We were looking forward to seeing what he could do this year. And then sure enough, we, we turn on Volta Valenciana stage three and AJ August wins it. First pro win big. That's a big win for him. The he fought. It's also just, it was smart. I, I was really impressive with. It wasn't a. Just a feat of strength. There was really tense moment. Remco's attacking, Balame is attacking. There's a descent. Florian Vermeesh is on the front. And who's on his wheel? AJ August. Andrew August just follows him and they split off the front of the group. Some other people attack up like a writer from Unox. And then AJ does not take a poll the entire time like a smart person. And then wins the sprint because I believe he was probably thinking I have teammates behind like Ben Turner who wants to win the sprint. Maybe other teammates going for the overall in GC like Magnus Sheffield. So I am just going to sit on and then wins the sprint. Super impressive. I, I was really, I mean this is a race with some good people. Like for stage one was won by Binyam Garmai, opens his account with nsn. And then Remco Evanopole and Remco Evenepoel, the world champion in the time trial wins the time trial in stage two. Unfortunately for him, it did not count for time in the GC because it was windy and I'll tell you, it was very windy. It's probably the right decision. And Johan, why were they on road bikes in the tt?

[Johan Berneil]

Is that just a rule for the race? First, about AJ August Spencer. As you know, I think I said, I mean, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I said, you know, he started really young, got, you know, thrown away and thrown in the big races straight away. And then we didn't see yet his, his potential what we saw as when he was an 18 year old. But you know what, talent doesn't go away overnight, you know, so we don't know what happened with AJ Always if he had, if he had injuries, if he was sick, if it was difficult for him to adapt to the life of a professional cyclist overseas. I'm gonna guess it's a combination of all of that. But you know, first of all, to win a, to win a race nowadays, there's, there is no more luck.

[Spencer Martin]

Right?

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, for him to attack in the downhill towards the finish, that means that you have to be with the first guys on top of the climb. That's the first. Because your guy who's hanging on for dear life is not able to attack in the downhill. He's busy coming back. Right, Right. So no, I'm really happy to see that. You know, it's, it's, it's good to see these, these young kids and you know, especially American talent materialize with results. And it's this first race, first win as a professional. It's a very important one. The first one is always important. And it's, it's not easy nowadays to win races. You know, there's, there's, there's not, I mean, there's a few guys who win a lot of races and then for the rest there's not that much opportunity. So great win, great win by him. So that was really, really nice to see.

[Spencer Martin]

What's interesting, since we talked about, you know, we talked about AJ, we talked about all these like he's 20 years old, in his third year as a professional. That's crazy.

[Johan Berneil]

That's crazy.

[Spencer Martin]

Crazy. And Quinn Simmons, we talked, I, I, we, we were talking about this decision that. Do you skip U23? I cited Quinn Simmons as a writer that probably was helped by that. Interestingly enough, Quinn Simmons was talking about this in an interview just this week with Garrett Thomas and Luke Rowe. He was saying, he was basically saying in a, he was trying to say it with modesty, but he just, like, I, I was maybe one of the best junior writers of all time is what he was saying.

[Johan Berneil]

He was.

[Spencer Martin]

And he went pro and he said, I struggled quite a bit and he can't. He said he could not imagine being less good than he was and going from the juniors to the pros, and he did not recommend it for other riders. So, yeah, I think someone like A.J. obviously, he's adapted. He's, he's racing well right now. But that, it just means you're spending the first few years of your career just getting up to speed and getting.

[Johan Berneil]

Getting beat up all the time.

[Spencer Martin]

Beat up. I mean, that's exactly what Quinn said. Like, beat up. He decided that. You remember the breakaway with Wild Van Art in his first. Yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

He said, I saw, I saw the interview. I saw the interview.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. 650 watts. And the Wild just rode away from it.

[Johan Berneil]

Well done. On, on a, you know, false flat. Just gets out of the saddle and rides away.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. You know, Johan, I was wondering, why was wout in the breakaway that he was in the yellow jersey? He could have won that stage. Why was he up there?

[Johan Berneil]

Oh, he won the stage.

[Spencer Martin]

No, no, no, no. He got caught. And then Pagacha won. Right?

[Johan Berneil]

Did he?

[Spencer Martin]

Okay.

[Johan Berneil]

I don't remember. I don't, I don't know. I was, it was the year that Walt was, he was flying. Yeah. Anyways, back to what you asked me about the time trial bike. So because of the wind. I mean, it was, it's, the weather in Spain is, for the moment, it is not great. I was on a bike right, yesterday with, with a friend of mine, with just the two of us, we were, we had parts where it was sketchy. It was, you know, like, and that's just with a normal road bike with, you know, like 35 or 40 millimeter profile wheels. And we were, we had sections where we, where the bike was literally like this. In the south of Spain, it's been raining a lot. There's a lot of flooding. But yesterday there was a small hurricane, maybe a little small Hurricane. So the commissaires and the organization decided that they were going to do the time trial and it was not going to count for GC because safety and I, I'm going to guess that's a common decision I don't have. But you know, for safety, everybody on a normal bike instead of a time trial bike. I'm, I'm not sure now because I didn't, I didn't watch the time trial. But was Remco on a disc, disc wheel?

[Spencer Martin]

Ah, that's a good question, man. I, I should have paid. I don't think he was.

[Johan Berneil]

I, I think he was.

[Spencer Martin]

You think he was?

[Johan Berneil]

I think he was. Yeah. I figured as a time trialist, man, it's difficult mentally, Mentally.

[Spencer Martin]

I'm looking at a picture of him on a non disc. Okay, regular wheels. But I wonder, did they let people race on discs?

[Johan Berneil]

Well, I mean that's probably, you know, it was probably decision made. You get normal bikes, no disc wheels. I mean it's, it's, it's, it's like a sale, you know, when you, when in that, in those conditions. So anyways, he won. It was just a victory because of his pride as a world champion, of course. But man, what a start for Remco, man, he has not lost the race yet.

[Spencer Martin]

Four wins. Well, technically he has because stages one and three of Valenciana.

[Johan Berneil]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I, I had the same thought before the show. I was like man, he's undefeated. And like wait a second.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, but, but yeah, four, four wins including the team time trial. And you see, I mean again yesterday in the time trial, Vlasov second. I mean how long is it to go that we've seen a top three result of, of Alexander Vlasov? You know, it's definitely the Remco effect at Red Bull. You know, there's, you know, and I think it's, it's also Remco made it, I think a big objective to say okay, I'm, I'm getting here. I'm showing straight away that they can have faith in me. There's a new sheriff in the house at Red Bull and it's called Remco Evenepoel. And it has an effect on the whole team because if you also, if you see their behavior in the race, the way they take control with super confidence. It, the, the, the team dynamics have you know, transformed. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a different team.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean flaskable only 8 seconds back too pretty Impressive. You know who had a sneaky good time trial? Ben Turner on Ineos. Ineos 21 seconds back fourth. I thought he was a sprinter and then he's turning in really good time trials.

[Johan Berneil]

He was Ben Turner, if I'm not mistaken. He was. Is it possible he was world champion cyclocross Juniors?

[Spencer Martin]

He.

[Johan Berneil]

He was.

[Spencer Martin]

It sounds right, but there's also so many British writers with a similar variation on the name. Ben Turner?

[Johan Berneil]

No, no, no, no. He was a top, top, top junior cyclocross rider. Because I remember when they. A few years ago, him and Tom Pitcock were often with ineos in the Belgian. In the Belgian cyclocross circuit. So he's a very, very, you know, versatile rider. Ben Turner.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. I'm looking right now. He was second at the National Championships U23, 2021. Beaten by Leo Hayter, who I believe is now on George's team. Modern adventure. But yeah, very versatile, versatile rider. Pretty impressive from him. I'm curious to see how this GC plays out. It's. It. There's nothing. A big climbing set piece and so Remco probably won't win, but I guess don't count anything out. I mean, it's a really tricky.

[Johan Berneil]

There's still one. There's still one stage where they can make the difference. I think Remco wins this.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. He's gonna have to get away solo, which he can do. But I think the neutralization of the TT actually makes it a far more interesting final two stages. This I'm excited to watch because now Remco has to make time up versus defend a lead.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, sure.

[Spencer Martin]

And so the next all just shout out AJ August. We just want to make sure you. We want to make sure, you know, we appreciate you, that that was an impressive win. Also Ben Gai. I mean, that's a big win for him. Like he, he did not have. He did not win a single race last year.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And he wins his first race with.

[Johan Berneil]

Nsn and also same thing as Remco, you know, get to a new team star signing. I was. I'm gonna say I'm. I'm pleasantly surprised. I. I had. So, I mean, I don't know why. I don't know why I thought. I thought that Binyam would not be that performing. It's okay. We have to put it in context, right? It is Vuelta Valencia. The big sprinters are not here. But still you had to be there because it was only half of the peloton and before There was about 60 riders together and before that there was 30 or 40 riders and he was also there. So yeah, I mean that's another big signing for a new team and straight away deliver. That's for the, I mean for him, his status within the team and the trust and the confidence of the teammates and the whole staff around him, that's a great start for.

[Spencer Martin]

It is.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

It's not the biggest race but I, it's not nothing. It does make me wonder how, how, how much outside cycling things were weighing on him specifically around his team last year and then now he comes in, they got these great looking jerseys. The world is disaster.

[Johan Berneil]

I mean I like them. I, I mean I initially pretty good strange but I mean in the, in the bunch actually they also, they're also very nice. You know they stick out. You can really, you know, see where NSN cycling team is.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And then the other race going on this week, well there's, there's also the Moosecott Classic which if you're waking up early in the US to watch the one day race prior to the Tour of Oman, there might, you might need to find your local racing Anonymous meeting and go there. But we're going to gloss over the Muscot Classic. I have not gotten to watch it yet but the other European race I should.

[Johan Berneil]

One, two by James.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. J. No, no, no, no, no, no. Maro Schmidt wins. Adam Yates second on uae but didn't they get away?

[Johan Berneil]

Him and Luke Plapp, didn't they get away together?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, Luke Plapp got away and then was four seconds back. So I assume he probably took some massive poll for Schmidt.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

The two of them on. I will say it is a pretty good little race. I couldn't tell you what channel it's on to watch in the US but you can find it. It's. It's a good race. Kind of an interesting looking country. It looks you would want to go ride there after watching the race which I guess is the point of the race but ETO de Be in the south of France near Marseille I believe or like Avignon. It's been. The weather's not been good, it looks miserable but it's actually some super interesting racing. Stage one looked like there was confusion, confusion at the end. Lucas Kubis from Unibet Rose Rockets who I believe we were talking about just recently. It looked like he did not know that the finish was turning and he was in the wrong position. Allowed Tom Crab Crabe. Crab on Flanders. 20 I believe he's 20 years old. So keep an Eye on this guy Scott. Gotta be the smallest team in the race wins the first stage. That was pretty cool to watch.

[Johan Berneil]

That's not the smallest team in the race, Spencer.

[Spencer Martin]

But who do you think the smallest team in the races? I guess there's, I don't know. I mean, CIC Pro Cycling Academy probably. Yeah. Or yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess Elite Foundation Cycling Team. That could be a small one too.

[Johan Berneil]

That's actually, you know what? That's actually a team that is run. I, I just found out that's, it's, I, I, I didn't know he had a team, but that's actually an ex teammate of mine who's the like managing director of that team is Laurent Duo from Switzerland.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, really?

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, he's the, he's, it's his team. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Wow. It's a lot of good little teams in Europe. Go, go figure this European continent. I think this could be a good year for them in cycling. Um, and then it's weird because Unibet has been having to race like the favorites and they usually are the underdogs. So they miss out on that. Stage one, stage two. Gotta be one of the weirdest sprints I've seen so far this year. But in, in a while, like, it was a really hectic sprint. They almost don't catch the breakaway. Matthew Cockle, man from Lotto Inter Marche, Luxembourg, Luxembourg.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah. I, I found out about him yesterday. It's all. Must also be a young writer.

[Spencer Martin]

No, he is 22.

[Johan Berneil]

Okay. So pretty young. He won a stage last year, I think in the Tour of Luxembourg. I think.

[Spencer Martin]

You know what? That's correct.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And that, that was a stacked field actually. T border Grasso was in that stage.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah. There was really good writers in Luxembourg usually. Yeah. But hey, what, what a start. I mean, I was happy to see Team Flanders, what they call Flanders Valoise now. Yep. Because my, you know, my good friend and ex colleague, ex assistant. Did the mole change teams from Lotto to Tim Balwaz, Team Flanders Baloise. He's a, he's a sport director there. And so in his first race with the team, they, they, they straight away a win. And I think, I think it's since 2024 that that team won a race. Actually. I don't think that last year they won a single race in the whole season. If I'm not.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So that is really big for them.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, big, big. I mean, yeah, it's. And, and you know, they race a lot of races, but they also do a lot of Small races in Belgium. So for them, ital the message, it's. It's like, it's. I mean, it's a big race for them. It's not the biggest race, but because they're also in Dur Flanders and because of the automatic invite for local teams. But yeah, great start for Dirk and for the team and actually also run by the son of my ex coach, Patrick Circu, who was my idol when I grew up. He became my coach. And his son Christoph is running this team already since more than 20 years, so stays in the family.

[Spencer Martin]

Whoa. And your nephew was on that team, right?

[Johan Berneil]

No, he was not.

[Spencer Martin]

No, he was not. What team was that?

[Johan Berneil]

That was Bingo.

[Spencer Martin]

Bingo. Yeah. Is that still around?

[Johan Berneil]

No, the team has. Team has folded.

[Spencer Martin]

That's too bad. But, yeah, but this sprint missed Matthew. He really. Because they were catching the breakaway and he used the last breakaway rider as his lead out.

[Johan Berneil]

It was his teammate. Yeah, br.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it was. They had that under control the whole time that was planned. This new innovative leadout plan where you send riders up the road at the beginning of the race, you catch them in the last 200 meters. It was perfect. Gron's got to be frustrated about that. And then stage three, another super messy sprint. A German rider on alpent Premier Tech beats Lucas Kubis. I don't think I'd ever heard of this writer before.

[Johan Berneil]

There's there, you know what the Rotov brothers, man, they are freaking.

[Spencer Martin]

They are like, where are they getting.

[Johan Berneil]

These people and guys that you say, hey, you know, who's that? And then you see that they're actually really strong riders.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, do you know how many riders are not going to win a race this year? A lot. Yeah, a lot of them.

[Johan Berneil]

The majority.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, Vast majority.

[Johan Berneil]

Majority of the peloton will not win a race. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And this guy's. A win in February, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about pulling rabbits out of your hat. That is super impressive. The big news, we're going to go to our first break right after this. But the big news from this block has been. So Mads Pedersen started. He usually goes to ET and as well, but he raced Valenciana, crashed on stage one, broke his, I believe, his left wrist and right collarbone. So that's awful to, you know, the use of either hand.

[Johan Berneil]

That's not good.

[Spencer Martin]

And that's not going to be good for his classics preparation, I assume.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, no, no, no, Obviously, I mean, we need to check the, you know, the severity of the. Of the fractures. But anyway, broken bones beginning of February, it's. He will probably be able to get to the start of the Classics. Maybe not Milan San Remo, but probably Flanders and Rube, if we will see. But obviously it's, you know, the whole preparation is derailed now. You know, it's not good unless, you know, unless it's, you know, the same. Like Walt von Aert, who broke his ankle, and a week later, he was already back on the bike after surgery, which is pretty impressive.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, well, you wouldn't think an ankle injury would be good for cycling, but it seemed to have been perfect, like, clean enough that the recovery has actually been seamless. Wrist is tough, man.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And collarbone. I mean, and. And on both different sites, it's. That's.

[Spencer Martin]

That's not good.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, no, no, no. It's definitely not good. Yeah, that's a bummer. That's a big bummer because Mats was obviously, you know, the only guy who was getting close to Poacher Vanderpool. Vanart. He was always around there. You know, I mean, we. We all remember his. His unbelievable victory and in which fashion he did it. That was incredible. And then he was up there in Flanders, and he, you know, he would have been up there with, I think with Mathieu and Bolachar if he hadn't have punctured in Roubaix. He was one of the guy. He was up there with the four or five guys, and, yeah, he punctured in a really bad moment. So, yeah, I hope he can recover, but it's obviously not the best preparation. Yeah, I. I think he cannot be at 100 in those classics, which, you know, could be having then hit its benefits for later in the season for the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That is a good point.

[Johan Berneil]

You know, as an ex cyclist and as the next director and next manager, I'm always thinking that way. Okay. You know, whatever happens now, that's just energy that stays in the tank for. For July.

[Spencer Martin]

It. It does often work out like that, though. I mean, he was really good last year in the Classics. I went back and was re. Watching this and had forgotten how good he was. But let's take a quick break, and then I have questions for you about how little Trek. If they could potentially transition their schedules to recover from this for the Classics. And then Jonas Vinegaard. Why is he. Why is he missing UAE Tour? But we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. So, quick business confession. There was a stretch where running payroll and handling paperwork basically ate up my entire Afternoons I'd sit down to do one simple admin task and suddenly it was two hours later, I was buried in forms and I was thinking, there has to be an easier way to do this. Everything changed when I got Gusto. Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere. And with April getting closer, I can feel it. I feel that anxiety bubbling up in my stomach that I used to feel when I was running my small business, the beyond the Peloton newsletter. Without Gusto, I would wake up thinking, have I withheld my taxes? What do I owe? Have I broken the law? Well, now payroll runs automatic taxes are handled and there are no out of the blue surprise payments or fees, just unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. And all the stuff that used to be annoying offer letters, onboarding, direct depos just baked right in there. And the other big thing? Peace of mind. When you're running a small business, the last thing you want to wonder is if you messed up a form or missed something important. Gusto just makes it feel handled. So if you're tired of admin work creeping into your nights and weekends, Gusto is honestly one of the easiest upgrades you can make. I cannot recommend it enough. I'm someone who used to stress about this stuff all the time. Try gusto [e-mail] the move and and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free [e-mail] the Move one more time gusto g-usto.com themove everybody this episode is brought to you by Quint. A well built wardrobe is about pieces that work together and hold up over time. That's what Quint does best. Premium materials, thoughtful design and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on even as the weather shifts. Quint Quince has everyday essential items that I love with quality that lasts. Organic cotton sweaters. Count me in. Polos for every occasion. I'll wear a Polo whenever I can. So much so people complain. Lighter jackets that keep you warm in the changing season. The list goes on. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middleman. So you're not paying for brand markup, just quality clothing. Everything is built to hold up to daily wear and still look good season after season. Plus, they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Right now I'm wearing my worn stretch jeans and in fact, I like them so much, this is the second pair I've gotten from Quince because people were saying, hey man, do you have any other clothes? Why are you wearing those jeans so much? And I said, because I love them because they're, they're comfortable. I never wear jeans on a plane, but with quints, I'm wearing those worn stretch jeans on every flight. So refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com themove for free shipping on your order and a 365 day return policy. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com the move quint.com the move for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com the move okay, Johan, we're back. So that interview you referenced, listening to Quinn Simmons, he said something where he said he was not going to the spring Classics in Belgium because he wanted to ride for himself and he didn't want to work for Matt's. Pedersen didn't think that was a good use of his time.

[Johan Berneil]

Did he say, did he literally say he didn't want to work for Matt Pedersen or is that an interpretation of.

[Spencer Martin]

The actual quote would be. That's not the actual quote. The actual quote was, let's make sure the team. He said the team. Mads wanted riders around him who were just working for him and I didn't want to ride the front. Going into the last pass of the Claremont when I could be preparing for Amstel Gold was something along the lines of his quote.

[Johan Berneil]

Okay, okay.

[Spencer Martin]

The only thing I can't quite. And Garrett Thomas and Luke Rowe push back on this like, well, having both of you there is probably good because, you know, how do you beat Vanderpool and Pagachar? That's not an easy task to begin with. And then having two leaders is probably helpful, but the risk of doing, of having the one leader is now the one leader might have a subpar preparation. Do they then think about transitioning Quinn back into that program?

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, I don't know. I can't speak for them, but it's definitely. They're going to sit around the table, you know, and, and with Quinn involved in these discussions and see if, if he would like to step in. I, I think first of all, they need to assess the severity of the injury of Mats Petersen and see what the recovery is. I'm just checking their, their roster here. I mean, listen, they have a strong roster, man. I mean, obviously, listen, Mats Pedersen is not replaceable. Right? There's Nobody else on the team who has of that caliber for those spring classics, that's for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

There's not many people on the, on the level of Quinn Simmons. I mean, he is like unbelievably strong.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, he is.

[Spencer Martin]

He is.

[Johan Berneil]

But you know, this, this, this is now an opportunity for other writers to, you know, like, for example. I'm just saying, for example, Matthias Vacay. It's not. It's not that level, but it's, you know, the. I mean, it's not probably not going to win Flanders, but they'll have to do with what they have.

[Spencer Martin]

It's not on his schedule, oddly.

[Johan Berneil]

No, usually. Normally not. I think last year people was trying to. Trying to go for Flesh Wallow. Yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And that might be on. Nope. Yeah, he's doing Amstel Flash Liege, which kind of makes sense.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

You know, but the funny thing is Flanders is changing. And maybe it's just a Bogachar thing, but it's becoming more of a climbers race than like you even wonder someone like Matthias Schelmo is a. Like, could he win Flanders? Or maybe that's just an oddity of Bogachar being so good that.

[Johan Berneil]

No, no, no. I think, I think, let's not forget, is just unique. There's, you know, the writers of the. I mean, the skel Moses and you know, the lighter guys. No, they can't win Flanders.

[Spencer Martin]

No, you are right about Vachek, though. This is his time to step up. I mean, this is perfect. He's the perfect rider that you would have. Right.

[Johan Berneil]

There's another rider, for example, Tom Squeens. You know, he's been up there. Yeah, Classics. You know, it's. It's so, it's. Listen, they can't replace Smuts, so they can't say, okay, you know what? We're doing the whole race around this leader and we want on the podium, which would be the objective of Little Track. Right. They can't do that with these riders. But if these riders have their own opportunities now and they don't have to spend all the energy for the leader, they can get at best a top five. And you know, we'd say, okay, top five is not good enough for Little Track. But it's what it is, you know, I mean, you can't. If the leader is. The top leader is gone, then is the secondary. The shadow leaders, I would say, who have to step up. Quinn Simmons. I mean, if I was, it would be him, but maybe I would maybe consider it. Although I do think though that Quinn Simmons and especially. Man, listen, I saw those numbers again from Tour of Lombardy last year. Almost six hours. Mean five hours, 30 or 40 at 350 watts. It's just. That's madness. Madness. So, you know, I, I think probably Quinn himself will see himself with better chances at Amstel and L eesh to do a good performance then.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean, his, I think his logic was that he expressed in the show was, I can win Amstel, but I maybe can't win Flanders.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, I agree.

[Spencer Martin]

Could. He could win AM still. I mean, actually, it's the perfect race for him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, God, he could win. He's not, he doesn't have a liaison on his. It's not on there.

[Johan Berneil]

I have to.

[Spencer Martin]

What I do wonder if he's doing it. He also has a funny. He mentioned that the. I don't know. I don't know why USA Cycling does this. They move nationals around every year, but it's during Tour of Switzerland this year. So he changed his schedule to do the Dauphine, which is not the Dauphine anymore. Fly back to the US race the National Championships and then fly back to Europe for the Tour.

[Johan Berneil]

So he has already his spot for the Tour. I mean, in theory.

[Spencer Martin]

His theory, yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

Okay. Well, that's a big change for Quinn Simmons because remember last year he only got that in the Tour of Switzerland.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. He was back racing National Championships 1 and then went to Tour Switzerland and.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, it's good enough.

[Spencer Martin]

They selected him for the Tour.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah. He was amazing in it.

[Spencer Martin]

I would say if you're off the.

[Johan Berneil]

End and in the Tour, actually, if.

[Spencer Martin]

You'Re off the front of Lombardia for the entire race and finish just off the podium.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, that performance is the confirmation of the type of rider he is. You know, he's a big. And yeah, yeah, I saw those numbers a few days ago, I said. And I, I was discussing with my son, you know, he's, he's 16. I mean, he's turning 17 in April and you know, his best powers like for 15, 20 minutes is what dwyn simmons is doing for five hours.

[Spencer Martin]

That's crazy. Wow.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, I, I, I can put it in perspective. So it's, it's, it's. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's a.

[Spencer Martin]

Big freak stuff what he's doing. I. The forgotten result too is he got third at Montreal. Pretty good little result right there. Yeah. Behind the U. The UAE guys. So. Yeah, take him to The Tour probably would be a, would be a safe bet. Yeah. I mean maybe that's right. Maybe you've convinced me that if he can win Amstel Gold, maybe it's worth putting everything toward.

[Johan Berneil]

I think so. I think so.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And we don't know, you know, we don't, we don't know how Mads is going to do. I do. I would bring up, you remember Mads Pedersen worked over vanderpoel at the 2024 Gent Wevel Gum with the help of Jonathan Milan. And to me that like perfectly encapsulated like how you defeat these guys. And that's what I just can't quite understand how like I would just take every writer that is the best for the course that we're facing them on because we're, we're dealing with a five alarm fire here. Like this is not a normal situation. Like normal tactics will not work against these guys. You've got to start thinking weird if you want to beat them. In my opinion, like you can't just roll up and say, yeah, we'll try to beat, we'll try to beat Matthew Vanderpole and Pagachar by going to the base of the quant and, and riding faster than them. Like I don't know if that's gonna happen.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah know they have to do something else. They have to do something else. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Drop someone in on a blimp mid race to anything, anything is needed at this point. And then this kind of takes me to my next point. Jonas Fine guard crashed training recently and then on a descent hit his face I believe, which no broken bones but that can really throw you off. Not racing the UAE to organs from co Evan Pole A little disappointing because I was quite excited to see that showdown they didn't mention. I mean Visma plays us so close to the vest for like with the injuries, I would say too close to the vest sometimes to the fact where it's confusing. But do you like, what do we read into this? Johan does this.

[Johan Berneil]

I don't think, I don't think it's such a big deal. I, I, I mean we never know when videos are taken. Right. But I, I, I'm under the impression I've seen already other videos from him training again. He's, he's, he has a place in, in Malaba, Malaga I think in that area. And I've seen other videos from after the reported crash which I don't know when those videos were taken, but I seem, I mean it was raining and he was you know, in full rain gear. And it's raining now, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna assume that he's already back on the bike.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

And I don't think it's, it's such a, it's such a big deal.

[Spencer Martin]

So let's just say he's fine. Put a, Put him in the fine bucket.

[Johan Berneil]

We're still nowadays, Spencer, with, I mean, especially. And also with the crashes that Jonas has had. You know, remember his crash in, in Tour of the Basque Country? Remember his crash in Paris? Didn't he broke his wrist there also?

[Spencer Martin]

He did, he did break his wrist. Yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

Having no broken bones after a crash, it's a success unless you have a severe concussion. But other than that, it's. It's fine, you know.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, we have, we're trending in the right direction, but we are. I've just listed two of Pagatro's biggest rivals. One in Classics, one in Grand Tours. Both suffering crashes, one with very intense injury problems. Wout Van Art already had surgery on his ankle. Where is Matthew Vanderpoel? Because if, if he gets hurt, we might be hurdling towards the thing I predicted in our end of year show where I said picacho is going to sweep the Classics and win the Tour de France.

[Johan Berneil]

The last footage I've seen of Mati van der Poel was he was going down the ski slopes in Livinho.

[Spencer Martin]

I don't like to hear that. That's not good.

[Johan Berneil]

The day after his world, his world title, he was on the skis in Livinho. I mean, you know, he's. Obviously, he's not gonna take risks, but hey, skiing is a dangerous sport, man. It's.

[Spencer Martin]

Skiing is a very dangerous.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, I, I am, I am. I have the consequences of a big ski crash, you know, since 10 years ago for the rest of my life. And it's not, not. It's not good, not good at all. So obviously, you know, these guys are, you know, they're young, they're, you know, they crash and they jump up. They live. They're like rubber, you know. But yeah, I mean, it's a risky activity. I mean, I think it's part of the special relationship that van der Poel has with his team and with the team managers and with Christoph Rothoft. They're very close. And so they allow him to do certain things for him to stay focused when he needs to stay focused and decompress when it's time to do that. So I think it's part of the whole picture of Having him feel good riding at opposing premier tech and yeah, let's, let's, let's hope that he doesn't go off piste and the results have been pretty good.

[Spencer Martin]

You would argue, like whatever they're doing, it probably is a good idea to keep doing it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think pagatra skiing Too easily 2000 up there. Oh, maybe a little training on the bike, maybe some skiing. But I did see, oh, for sure.

[Johan Berneil]

They'Re on the bike. Listen, if they're not outside, they're on Zwift. That's for sure. That's for sure. You know, it's, it's decompression and at the same time it's altitude training also. Right.

[Spencer Martin]

So yeah, and if you're up there altitude training, it would kind of make sense that you might day off, maybe go out there and ski.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, actually that's exactly what I'm going to talk about. But let's take another quick break and then I'm going to ask you about this and get to our questions at the end of the show, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Caldera Lab makes high performance skin care designed specifically for men's skin. This is important since men's skin is 25 thicker, oilier and ages differently from women's. Which means mid need clean formulas engineered for their biology. They they have an easy to follow three step regimen and it's powered by clean clinically tested ingredients and breakthrough patent pending technology. This step, these steps are the first one. The clean slate. It cleans dirt, oil, sweat and buildup off your skin. It won't dry you out, won't strip your skin and leaves your face feeling fresh, clean and ready for the day. The great the serum. The hero product uses advanced renewal technology clinically proven to reduce wrinkles, firm skin and improve elasticity. It's lightweight, absorbs, absorbs fast and delivers visible results. You also feel great after using it can vouch for that. The third step, the hydro layer. The moisturizer. It's lightweight, non greasy, locks in moisture all day and gives a healthier, more energized look. And this is what pushed me to try Caldera Lab. I could never stick to a routine, but Caldera's three step routine is simple and has actually worked for me. Their hydro layer is my favorite. I love, I live in Colorado. It's dry, I need skin moisturizer and the hydro layer takes care of me. So a small habit with big results. Go to caldera lab.com themove and use code the move for 20% off your first order. That's calder lab.com. themove for 20% off your first order. Okay, Johan, just before this kind of set up the first question we had.

[Johan Berneil]

Bobby is back. Bobby is back.

[Spencer Martin]

Bobby is back. Huge. I. So we. We were talking about altitude camps, people skiing. It does seem like it's a trend now. You go up to a ski resort this time of year, and even if it's snowing, you just train inside. Like Uno X is at. It seems like they are at their second altitude camp of the year. They were.

[Johan Berneil]

Where are they?

[Spencer Martin]

Are they in Sierra Nevada now? They were in the Canary Islands, but as you know, the weather's been awful, I guess just dumping snow there. So they're on Zwift every day for like. Like six hours a day.

[Johan Berneil]

Oh, yeah. I mean, listen. Okay, Spencer, let's. I think we should differentiate there. I. I haven't followed that, but I can tell you the whole of UNOX team is not six hours in Zwift. I think it's your. It's Abrahamson. Jonas Abrahamson, who is a freak. I know my. My son follows him and you know, he says Abrahams on did today on Zwift. I mean, let's not forget Abrahamson had this crash last year in Switzerland or something. No, no, no, no. Was. Was. Oh, I think. Great question. It was a race in Tour of Belgium. Tour of Belgium? Yeah, Tour of Belgium. Broke his collarbone, had surgery. The day after surgery was on Zwift in the hospital. He made it to the start of the Tour, which is probably two weeks later.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And.

[Johan Berneil]

And three weeks later wins a stage.

[Spencer Martin]

So.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think that's not the norm for Uno X. But anyways, if you're outside of Nevada right now and you want to do altitude training, you're gonna have to be on. On Zwift because the weather is horrible in the south of Spain right now.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, people have sent me. I've. I have my sources on the ground who have sent me videos, and you can see there's like eight of them in the corner, like on these trainers every day, hours.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, it does make me wonder, and this probably won't be a trend, but are you better off this time? You're just going to an altitude camp and riding indoors versus riding outside, not at altitude?

[Johan Berneil]

I mean. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, mentally, you could imagine it getting kind of hard.

[Johan Berneil]

No, this is great. I mean, I mean, there's almost nobody who can do this mentally. Like, you can do this once for like, okay, you know, I want to show off and I want to do six hours on Swift, whatever. But hey, you can't do this regularly. You go crazy. Abrahamson doesn't seem to have a problem with it. What a writer, man. What a. What a. What a. What a. I mean, he's strong as an ox.

[Spencer Martin]

Crazy Winnie Winnie mentality. I did UAE at their. When Swart and then Javier Solaire were talking. Soleil Solaire. Soleil Solaire. They were, they were saying they're trying to scale back their altitude camps. And then someone actually asked them, like, what UNOX is scaling up their altitude camps and they basically swatted the question away. This does make me wonder, is Unox thinking this is a lot altitude camps and in the coldest part of the year, maybe we shouldn't have done this, but.

[Johan Berneil]

Well, I think they haven't. Obviously they didn't plan on being the weather so bad in the south of Spain. It's alert, Spencer. I mean, Andalusia is flooded. Granada, that's the bottom of. That's the bottom of Sierra Nevada, right? Granada is so bad, it's really bad. So if, if you're stuck up there, then you have to make the best out of it. And luckily, nowadays the indoor riding technology is up to point. I mean, you can perfectly do any training you have to do on whatever Zwift or platform or rui or whatever. My whoosh. You can do it to perfection. Actually.

[Spencer Martin]

It is like shockingly better. It. It is unbelievable how well you could train indoors now. I mean, I was, yeah, I was thinking if I was a professional, I probably could stay in Boulder quite a long time for like the first two months of the year probably, and just do altitude camps from my house. And if it was bad weather, you just do Zwift. We didn't, we didn't used to have that technology, Johan. It was not as easy to ride inside back in the day. But on this topic, this is the first question. I thought this was kind of interesting. This is from Mark in Sydney. JCO all the way is how he signs his email, but he says his question is more of a theory sparked by recent crashes of UAE riders at the start of the season. And they he asked, would you agree with all the focus now on training camps and individual riders riding to their power meters in the art of in, would you agree that the focus on this means the art of racing has been diminished? If teams like UAE spend so much time in a controlled environment focused on outputs, are their riders more vulnerable to crashing in chaotic environment. In the chaotic environments of a live race. Kind of an interesting question.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think there's something to it, man. Obviously. Listen, any professional cyclist there, there's. They're masters on the bike, right. They. Their skills are unrivaled. There are some riders who maybe, I mean, I would say, you know, the lack of racing sensations, instinct, the feeling you have in the bunch, maybe, I think maybe going down, they don't race that much. And I'm not going to say that that's the reason why there's more crashes, but it's definitely. I mean, if you're used to being a bunch a lot, there's a lot of reflexes that, you know, that's automatic, you know. Oh. I mean I was, I was talking. I don't know who was talking to the other day about this but, you know, I think it's a combination of a lot of. A lot of factors that may be one of them. I still think, you know, the bikes are super fast, everything's optimized. The disc brakes have their pros and their cons. I think braking wise, it's amazing. It brakes better than any other system we had in the past. At the same time, I think that disc brakes also are a reason for the certain crashes where they know it brakes so well that everybody's used to just brake at the last moment.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I do think that's a big component.

[Johan Berneil]

You don't have to anticipate. You know, with rim brakes, obviously it didn't break. Sometimes it didn't break at all. Rim brakes, because you were there. But at least you had this automatic instinct installed that you always had to be aware and anticipate and always looking and you were braking already before you actually came to the spot when you saw something in the bunch of. I think those automatic feelings are gone within nowadays cycling. Anyways. I'm not saying that disc brakes are obviously, if you look at the overall picture, I think it's a lot better. It's safer in the downhills. When you have to stop, you stop. I still have nightmares sometimes and especially when at the beginning when the carbon wheels came into the, into the peloton and we didn't have the proper brake pads. I mean, you go down a. Climb a mountain and it's raining and you have, you had no breaks, man.

[Spencer Martin]

It's general slowing. It's just you're kind of slowing down.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Lining up to do a wet crit. Everyone's got carbon wheels with limb Brakes. Oh, my Lord.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

There's just no stopping.

[Johan Berneil]

For the, for the followers who know. I mean, you can look it up on YouTube. My famous crash in 1996 in the Tour de France when I went off the cliff on the descent of the Cormatta Rosalon. That's a typical crash of new, new technology carbon wheels back in the day. So it was the beginning of the lightweight wheels.

[Spencer Martin]

What year was that?

[Johan Berneil]

96.

[Spencer Martin]

That was an early carbon wheel.

[Johan Berneil]

Yes. And not have the proper brake pads.

[Spencer Martin]

No. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, wow.

[Johan Berneil]

And it was. I have to say it was a personal decision. Yeah. It was not a team. Like, I didn't. The team didn't ride on lightweight. I asked permission the team if I could use the lightweight wheels. And then, you know, it was my decision, my responsibility. But that was the cause. I mean, the main cause of the crash is that I didn't have enough brake power when. So I, I, Yeah, I went over. I went over the cliff.

[Spencer Martin]

What were the injuries? Obviously you're here today, so you were, I guess in the big picture.

[Johan Berneil]

You should post the link of the, of the, of the. In. In. If we can post it in the comments or something. I'll. I'll find the link. The injuries were. Is. It was a miracle. Nothing. I mean, I had. I had. I had a few thorn fibers in my calf which three days after forced me to abandon. But it was crazy. I went. I felt more than 10 meters down over like, you know, you have those in the, in the concrete blocks, like, you know, went over it. I remember going, you know, like over my head and no helmet. No helmet. Spencer. And I came out. I had. It was a bad day. It was. It's the stage. It's the famous stage. It's the first time that we saw in the Rhine crack. It was. The finish was on.

[Spencer Martin]

You know, I didn't know those were the same day.

[Johan Berneil]

Which one it was. But anyway, it was that same day. So bad weather and I had a. I wrote for Rabbit. I had a little cycling cap on. And so I went over, fell and I came back out and I still had the cycling cap on my hat, on my head. That's how, you know, lucky I was. Dude, you could have here and be able to tell this story.

[Spencer Martin]

You could have cracked that noggin easily. Yeah, that is very lucky. What year was that? 96.

[Johan Berneil]

96. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

You know what's crazy about Endurin and the reason I think he is a baller. 96. First year he cracks, just goes home.

[Johan Berneil]

Like, I'm out No, no, he finished the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he finished the Tour. Then he.

[Johan Berneil]

And then he, he was forced to start the Vuelta.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he, he won the Olympic Games in between the Tour of the Vuelta. Yeah, yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

So he was forced to start the Vuelta because of Ernesto, his sponsor, and he abandoned and said, okay, that's it, I'm out.

[Spencer Martin]

And we never saw him again.

[Johan Berneil]

Yes.

[Spencer Martin]

That's awesome. That's. That is like quite the way to go out. But the second question someone in the chat asked, a question that I was just about to ask, you might have noticed, like, Rimco wins four races, off to a great start, Mads Pedersen crashes. Those are kind of the two big stars that we've had appear so far. Obviously, Matt Pederson crashing maybe supports the theory that people should be at training camps, but everyone else is at training camps. The question is, why is Pagatra's first race Strada Bianchi? Is that a little risky that you're just jumping into that? Maybe that's. They think it's not a challenging race.

[Johan Berneil]

It has worked the last few years. He won last year and the year before being at his first race. Ah, this and these guys, I, I don't think we can compare. You know, the, the, these big engines, you know, Pogachar, Vanderpool, Von Aart, Mats Peterson, you name them, Remco. They show up and they're just on top of their game. They don't need any races to get race fit or whatever. So I just think it's. If you look, for example, if you take Vanderpool, you take Pogachar and let's take the, say Remco and even, and even Jonas Wout, maybe to a lesser extent. I think he's a little, still a little bit more old fashioned. Old fashioned thinking in terms of race getting races in. But these guys do not race when they, when they don't, when they think they can't win, they don't race anything. They only race the races that they think they can win.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Johan Berneil]

You know, I mean, obviously, listen, if Bogacha would raise Dura Valencia, he would win it. If you would raise 2 of UAE, he would win it. But, you know, he has such a specific set of goals and ambitions that he just, you know, he just shows up whenever it's a big goal and, you know, usually he wins.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, so Pagacha did race ua Tour last year before Strada.

[Johan Berneil]

Oh, he did. Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

So it is. You're thinking of 2024, the zero year he comes in and just drops a bomb 81k solo. See you later. First race of the year. I guess he's, I guess he's not too worried about it. But I, I was thinking this month, I was like, man, I, there's not many. My wife is like, who's racing this race? And I'm like, you don't understand. These guys are pretty good. You don't know them, but it's, it's good racing. And yeah, it made me think there's not a lot of big stars out there racing right now. There's a, Someone asked a question and I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell them we're going. We can address it, but we're gonna wait till we stop recording. So if you wanna hang around, we can talk about that. That's what you get for your membership. The next question is, what breed is Bobby?

[Johan Berneil]

Oh, he's a, he's a tackle. So it's a dachshund and it is a long haired Kaninchin dachshund. There's definitely, there's different sizes and so is German for a small rabbit. And so apparently this small breed, they, they, you know, they, they are basically around to, to chase rabbits, to, to hunt rabbits. They go in rabbit holes or that's what they were bred for initially. So it's a long haired Kaninchen dachshund or tackle or whatever you call it.

[Spencer Martin]

Bobby, in our yard we got big, big rabbit problems. The next question is, it's funny, I just had to do this in a race. Do riders prefer taking a nature break while riding the bike or pulling over?

[Johan Berneil]

They prefer to stop.

[Spencer Martin]

That's what I would say.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I, I was at the Tour of Tucson and the group was too. I couldn't, if I pulled over, I was never going to see it again. I had to pee off the bike. Oh, wow. It is not, it is not a comfortable experience.

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, it depends, you know, listen, if you have, usually you, you try to find the, you know, a false flat. Not, not too, not too much descent like a false flat. 1 2% downhill. You go to the side of the road. Very important. Check the wind.

[Spencer Martin]

You have to go bad enough. I don't know how much you care.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. But they, they, if, whenever they can, they, they stop for a nature break. If, if, if you do it on the bike, it's because it's, it's too fast. There's no time. You can't wait. You can't wait to, or maybe, you know, you Think it's never going to slow down.

[Spencer Martin]

So, I mean, you saw Tom Pickock, remember, it was between the poggio and the presso and poggio two years ago, and he peed off the bike in the front group at San Ramo. If you gotta go, you gotta go.

[Johan Berneil]

Well, listen, I mean, dump it. There's. There's very little things that Tom Pidcock cannot do on a bike. And yeah, peeing on the bike is definitely not one of them. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And actually, if you, if you, if you want to get really good at peanut off the bike, I had a friend who would practice it on group rides. Really kind of makes sense. Like, if you want to be good at it in a race, you got to practice in training. But usually, like, when you see these breakaways have big gaps, it's because the fight for the breakaway is intense. And then someone makes the decision that everyone's going to pull over and take a pee.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And then the breakaway gets the gap. So, yeah, preferably you would do it then.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I remember Victor Campenaerts. I haven't seen it happen for a few years, but there was years where he was peeing, like, all the time. He'd just be in the break, he'd just be peeing like he was peeing five, six times a race.

[Johan Berneil]

I'm like, he got probably a note from his nutritionist. Stay hydrated.

[Spencer Martin]

I guarantee. Yeah, it was some sort of push of like, ultra hydration. Like, I gotta drink all these carbs in the end of pee. The last one. This is a good question. Isaac Del Toro's training in home, in his hometown. I assume this person means in Mexico. How is this reviewed and checked by uae? Is it just through training peaks? Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, it's the. I mean, it's. It's not uae. It's the personal contact you have with your trainer. So they are, I'm gonna guess, in uae, there's probably five, six trainers or more. You know, everybody has four or five riders. And so that's the communication, you know. And then normally everybody also has one designated DS who stays in touch with a group of four, five or six riders, which he checks in with. And so, yeah, that's the way, I don't think. It's not that they have to check it. It's, you know, these guys know what they're doing, man. They. They do the job, you know, they do what they have to do and.

[Spencer Martin]

Is a. I mean, you're a. You're not away that long. It's not that long of an off season. And b. I mean, in between major races, they're. They're probably training by themselves anyway. Yeah. So it's. It's. And it's not like a normal.

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, I don't know where Isaac del Toro lives, but he's probably at altitude in Mexico.

[Spencer Martin]

He's from Ensenada, which is on the coast.

[Johan Berneil]

Oh.

[Spencer Martin]

So it. It's kind of. It's basically San Diego South. And if you're in San Diego, nice little place to ride. So I'd assume the weather's very good. A lot of mountains coming out of the ocean. So I. I see the appeal of training there. And I mean, but he'll. He'll, like, then have to go to some altitude camp soon. But, yeah, if you like the Colombian guys, a lot of them live at altitude, so instead of going to an outer camp and being away from home, it just kind of makes sense to stay at home and be at altitude. And. Yeah. I mean, if you. Anyone that has a coach, you just do your training. It goes to the training peaks, and then the coach looks at it and it's. I don't. I don't like. I don't like it. I don't want. I always hated that. It's like, I don't want to. I don't want to hear about what you think about my training. All right. Like, I just want to do this in private, but that's how it works for the pros. Anything else, Johan, before we take off?

[Johan Berneil]

I'm just checking here. Isaac Del Toro, but I can't find him on Strava. There's too many fake ones.

[Spencer Martin]

I know. It's like an army of fake. Del Toro.

[Johan Berneil]

I just wanted to see where he was. No, I think we've covered most of it, Spencer.

[Spencer Martin]

So.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah. What's our next big appointment? Is that UAE tour?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. We'll do a show on Friday. Next Friday. And then UAE tour. Is it. I. It. I. I am terrible at knowing when the UAE tour is. It starts on February 16th, so that is in 10 days from now.

[Johan Berneil]

Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

And then. So it's two weeks until we have our NWA tour.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Run down, I assume. I mean, this is big. This is Remco Evinable's chance to win a world tour stage race, and it's not.

[Johan Berneil]

And to win in the home of his nemesis.

[Spencer Martin]

You forgot your.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And I mean, it's not.

[Johan Berneil]

It's not his nemesis. He's at this moment. He's not. It's not. It's you know, he's just.

[Spencer Martin]

I also think they're good friends, right?

[Johan Berneil]

I mean. Yeah, they were good friends, I think, when they were banging on Jonas together in the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Did you hear that quote? He's like, don't be. You shouldn't be afraid of him. That's what Pagatra said to Evanopole. He's like, don't listen to him. Well, so I guess he has won this race before. Yeah, he's one UA tour 20, 23.

[Johan Berneil]

And there's a time trial. No. Yeah, there's usually time trial and then two uphill finishes.

[Spencer Martin]

So it's a very good time trial for him.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah. You know, and these kind of efforts, man, for Remco, that's like. It's not the high mountains. Yeah, he's gonna be there.

[Spencer Martin]

It's like a perfect Remco.

[Johan Berneil]

He's not gonna. He's gonna be difficult to beat. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

You know who he's racing against, though, besides Adam Yates.

[Johan Berneil]

Del Toro.

[Spencer Martin]

Isaac Del Toro.

[Johan Berneil]

Oh, okay.

[Spencer Martin]

That's. I'm actually not kind of excited for this race.

[Johan Berneil]

You need to take some time. Which he will in the time trial.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Yeah, he will. Because Bamboo Del Toro, he's a pretty good time trialist. No, he's no panicooking in the time.

[Johan Berneil]

He's not gonna. He's gonna lose 20 seconds of it on Remco at least, if not more.

[Spencer Martin]

Least, probably. I mean, the time trial is 12k long.

[Johan Berneil]

Okay. That's gonna be more than. More than 20 seconds.

[Spencer Martin]

Last year, Josh Charlene wins. Let's just assume Remco is as fast as Josh. Charlie, second place was 13 seconds back, and Pagatro is almost 20 seconds back, so. Yeah, it's probably 20 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be interesting. I'm excited.

[Johan Berneil]

Listen, I mean, there's two uphill finishes, so with, you know, with two wins and bonification, it's doable. But I'm still gonna put Remco as the favorite number one.

[Spencer Martin]

How does that work with UOE and Pagachar and the UAE Tour? Is it like every. Like an every other year situation?

[Johan Berneil]

I mean, you know, initially, I would say, you know, a few years ago, they could, I think UAE or, you know, the. The Sheikh could still demand the presence of Pugachar at their race. Right. I think those times have gone. They can't demand anything anymore because, you know, he's the best rider in the world. He wins the Tour de France. Okay. It's fine if you do. It's fine if you don't come to.

[Spencer Martin]

The UAE if you keep winning Tour de France is you probably don't have to go to the UAE Tour if you don't want to. In some ways, though, it's. The training's pretty good. I mean, it is hard racing in crosswinds usually, so.

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Maybe not the worst thing to go do, but short stages, though, so maybe.

[Johan Berneil]

That'S not what Bogacha needs for the glasses.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, Yeah, I know. I actually would be curious to talk to his team sometime about how they make that calculation. Like, what do you think he's doing instead of being at the UA Tour? Is he just at home in Monaco?

[Johan Berneil]

Yeah, he's doing long rides. I mean, he's doing monster rides.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Monster rides in those coastal mountains. Or sleeping up at altitude and going down the ride. Probably great training there.

[Johan Berneil]

It's.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berneil]

The training he can do there is definitely a lot better for the classics than being at UAE Tour, for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. And you're getting time at home when you're going to be gone later in the year, so. Makes sense. Well, thanks, Johan. Anything else before we take off?

[Johan Berneil]

Nope, that's it.

[Spencer Martin]

Thanks, guys. We'll talk to everybody on Friday. Thanks for joining.