Are UAE Proving You Don't Need a GC Leader? | Giro d'Italia 2026 | THEMOVE+

Summary

THEMOVE+ Podcast Summary

Episode: Are UAE Proving You Don't Need a GC Leader? | Giro d'Italia 2026

Host: Spencer Martin (for Lance Armstrong), with Johan Bruyneel

Date: May 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of THEMOVE+ dives deep into Stage 8 of the 2026 Giro d'Italia, examining UAE Team Emirates’ continued dominance despite lacking a General Classification (GC) leader after early crashes. The discussion covers Jonathan Narváez's impressive win, the team dynamics behind UAE's success, unexpected GC group splits, team rankings across the WorldTour, and key insights into rider performances and upcoming stages. Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down why UAE thrives in this situation, analyze rivals' decisions, and preview what’s next for the race and its key contenders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stage 8 Recap and Tactical Breakdown

• Narváez's Stage Win: Jonathan Narváez (UAE) attacks with teammate Mikkel Bjerg and Andreas Leknessund (UNOX Mobility) after over 80km of aggressive, wind-battered racing.
  • "The breakaway took a very long time to go. Narváez went up the road with his teammate... pretty much 80, 90km of all-out racing into a headwind along the coast." — Spencer [01:36]
• Impressive Team Tactics: UAE, despite limited numbers (only 5 riders left), controls the action and executes strategic attacks.
• Breakaway Selection: Narváez enters only the decisive break, saving energy compared to others jumping into doomed moves.
  • “Do you know how many breakaways Narváez was in today? One. And he was in the one.” — Spencer [13:07]

2. Key Performances & Data from Stage 8

• Narváez's Strength: Second stage win in this Giro, fourth in his Giro career.
  • “Narváez was extremely praising his teammate, Mikkel Bjerg. He called him 'the man of the race'..." — Johan [05:40]
• Power Numbers: Narváez's average power for 76.5 km after the break formed: 330 watts (approx. 5 W/kg, given 65kg weight).
  • "There’s not many people listening to this podcast who can do that." — Johan [15:15]
• Chase Group Ineffectiveness: Strong field in the chase, but lacking organization and matched by UAE's superior engines.

3. GC Group Tactics & Small Splits

• GC Team Jockeying:
  • Jai Hindley attacks near the end; Jonas Vingegaard responds. They gap the GC group by 2 seconds.
  • Hindley's move possibly aimed at exploiting Felix Gall's weakness; internal team dynamics debated.
    • "Could it be that Jai Hindley wants to make a statement and say, 'okay, I'm also a protected rider here'?" — Johan [07:49]
    • "If I was a 30-year-old Australian...and I had a chance to accelerate while putting our rival into difficulty, but also gapping my teammate...I probably would.” — Spencer [09:54]

4. UAE's Depth & Development Approach

• Team Strength Not About Individual Stars:
  • UAE's success attributed to depth, excellent rider development, and team synergy—not just buying top names.
    • "It’s not necessarily true [they just buy the best]. They get a lot of riders that are good and develop them well." — Spencer [19:31]
• Psychological Advantage: Winning is contagious; being part of a winning environment raises everyone's game.
  • "Once you're part of a winning team, you up your game...Winning is contagious, man. Very contagious." — Johan [20:09]

5. WorldTour Team Rankings & Financial Muscle

• UAE acknowledged as the world's best team by points and depth.
• Red Bull and Visma next in line, with Red Bull’s financial backing noted.

6. Impact of Losing GC Leader: Is UAE Better Off?

• Early crashes removing Adam Yates paradoxically open opportunities for the rest of UAE’s strong riders.
  • "It’s a funny, living thought experiment where they could be racing like this with Adam Yates, and I would be crushed. But there's no rule that says you can't send these guys up the road while you have a GC threat." — Spencer [22:47]

7. Contrasting Teams: Pro Team Struggles

• Team Picnic Post NL called out for weak performance, lack of results, and poor presence in breakaways, despite WorldTour status.
• Highlights struggles of some WorldTour teams to stay competitive and implications for licenses and Grand Tour invitations.

8. Youth Pipeline & Talent Recruitment

• Importance of races like Tour de l’Avenir as a predictor for pro success.
  • "Usually Tour de l’Avenir is a pretty good indicator of what’s coming.” — Johan [29:24]
• Discussion on why some top youth talents don’t go straight to big teams—often due to already-signed deals pre-race.

9. Physical Metrics & Level of the Modern Peloton

• Comparative Watts/Kilo:
  • Efforts for main contenders now routinely exceed outputs that would have won Grand Tours just a few years ago.
  • Egan Bernal lost 3 minutes despite riding at his best-ever level—“He said...I did my best 40 minutes ever. And he was three minutes down...That’s what it means when we say the level keeps going up and up in pro cycling." — Johan [37:02]
• Riders off the back are producing numbers that were formerly winning.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On UAE’s Post-GC Crash Mindset:

  • “Having won three stages, man, nothing has to happen. There’s absolutely no pressure...That’s when a team outperforms expectations and everything seems to work.” — Johan [00:51, 23:09]

• On GC In-Fighting:

  • “They had a rider leave because of a 7th and 8th place overall dispute. So there is precedent for infighting.” — Spencer [11:22]

• On UAE’s Development Model:

  • “They get a lot of riders that are good and they develop them well...Once you are part of a winning team, you up your game.” — Spencer & Johan [19:31, 20:09]

• On Physical Demands:

  • “There's not many people listening to this podcast who can do 330W at 65kg for 76k. There's a few, maybe, when they're fresh.” — Johan [15:15]

• On Modern Peloton Improvement:

  • “If you’re three years without improving, you're dropped...They do get better but not better enough to keep up with the whole peloton.” — Johan [39:06]

• On Young Italian Hope Giulio Pellizzari:

  • “I could regret saying this. I've got a bad feeling about Pellizzari. Coming in with so much hype...I'm a little concerned that he's gonna cave like a soufflé.” — Spencer [51:00]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Stage 8 Recap: 01:36 – 04:41
• Narváez’s Break/Power Data: 12:38 – 15:15
• Team Picnic Post NL Critique: 24:05 – 25:09
• UAE Team & Team Development Discussion: 17:19 – 20:51
• Modern Peloton Performance Levels: 37:02 – 39:51
• Tour de l’Avenir Talent Pipeline: 26:06 – 29:26
• Preview of Stage 9: 41:37 – 45:30
• Discussion on GC Leadership, Pellizzari, and Pressure: 51:00 – 52:36

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Stage 9 Preview & Predictions

• Stage Layout: Flat for much of the day, sharp climbing finish (final climb: 11km at 6%, last 3km at 11%+).
• Predicted Tactics:
  • Breakaway possible, but likely GC battle due to tough finale and Bahrain’s intent to defend the jersey.
  • Jonas Vingegaard (Visma) expected to take time on current leader Eulario (Bahrain).
    • “Jonas probably won't take pink yet. He’s going to get in pink after the time trial.” — Johan [43:49]
• GC Contenders: Felix Gall could challenge if he recovers, but climb suits Vingegaard best. Both hosts predict Jonas will win.

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Additional Insights & Color

• Winning Environment Effects: UAE’s run of success breeds more success—riders step up when surrounded by winners.
• Physical, Psychological, & Organizational Factors: The best teams make it easier for lesser-known or previously inactive riders (like Narváez, post-injury) to step up.
• Pressure and Italian Riders: Heavy local expectations can affect young talents like Pellizzari—compared to more battle-hardened veterans.

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Summary

This episode illustrates how UAE Team Emirates has turned adversity into dominance at the Giro d’Italia, leveraging depth and development rather than classic GC leadership. The discussion weaves together tactical breakdowns, performance analytics, intra-team drama, and the increasing demands of pro cycling, while keeping a close eye on the race’s evolution and the factors shaping modern Grand Tour racing. Stage 9 promises another genuine test for both teams and riders, as the pundits predict continued fireworks—especially from UAE and Jonas Vingegaard.

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[This summary does not include sponsor reads, advertisements, or non-content banter. Conversations are attributed, timestamps are provided for key moments.]

Transcript

[Spencer Martin]

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[Johan Bernal]

So imagine Spencer, so we're one week in the Jira Saturn. So it's stage eight, but it's basically week one is finished, right? You know, having won three stages, man, nothing has to happen. There's absolutely no pressure. It's, it's gonna be so much fun. Those two next weeks for them, like they're just gonna chill and whenever there's, you know, a chance they'll go for it. If it doesn't work, no, no problem. No stress, no pressure. And that's usually when a team outperforms the expectations and, and everything seems to work. This is not the, this is not the last stage of UAE I'm going to predict.

[Spencer Martin]

Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernal. We are breaking down stage eight of the Giro d' Italia won by Jonathan Narvas on UAE Team Emirates over Andreas Leninson from Unox Mobility. Out of a breakaway that took a very long time. If you just looked at the, the results of the stage, it does not do the stage justice. It took a very long time for this breakaway to go. Narvaez went up the road with his teammate Mikael Berg. They were joined by Lectinson after pretty much what is it like 80, 90k of of all out racing into a headwind along the coast. They get away. It's pretty impressive. They turn inland, they blow out the gap. Once they start climbing, a chase group is behind them. The GC teams finally shut things down. I mean, I imagine they were really Looking forward to turning inland and getting to the climbs. And the chase group, it was pretty strong. Had a lot of riders with teammates, but they didn't really make a lot of headway. Narvaez wins over Lichtenson with an UNOX writer. What, what's his name? Johan.

[Johan Bernal]

Okay, we did some research on this to not to make sure to not butcher this. Right. So apparently it's, it's Martin

[Spencer Martin]

coming in. I had never heard, I'd never heard of the guy, but.

[Johan Bernal]

So first year on Unox comes over from Arkea. So. Yeah, good, good, good performance. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And good pickup by Unox finishing ahead of. I mean they were 42. He finishes 42 seconds behind Navarro Novaras, which is basically the gap when the climbing started, which shows you how strong Nevaeh was. Thomas Silva, Guillermo. Thomas Silva, the guy who had the leader's jersey, finishes fourth. Way better climber than we thought. Lorenzo Melese, your pick for the stage, finishes fifth. And in the GC group there was a split mid stage where Jonas Vinegard was caught out. But his Visma team easily welded that back together. And then you could tell the GC teams were nervous because it was really, you know, it's in the Marche region of Italy. It's just a lot of like every town is on top of the steepest hill you could possibly imagine and the roads are very narrow. So the GC teams were at the front. Jai hint they had sepcos pushing the pace in the last few K is in this. The climbs were steep like 22% I assume as a defensive mechanism to keep people from attacking. Jai Henley attacks, is followed by Jonas who looks incredible today. I mean there was like no hesitation from Jonas and they get a two second gap over the GC group, which is significant because Jai Henley was pushing that and his teammate Julio Pelizarri was, was kind of near the back of the GC group. Now loses two seconds to Jonas. Like well, that's kind of weird. Why would that happen? And then Felix Gall, yesterday's climbing extraordinaire. I was curious to, to watch him today. Johan on these climbs are not his type of climbs and he was at the back. I wonder if Visma will notice that and think that maybe that's something we can exploit later on. But what did you think about the stage and then what did you think about that kind of strange decision from Red Bull at the end?

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think where the stage was a little bit as we expected, right Narvis? I mean we. Yesterday when we recorded last yesterday's podcast. We didn't have the odds yet for the stage winners, but Narvis was the heavy favorite. And I think it's logical. I think the only unknown factor was how does Narvaez get in the break? But he did. He did so once. Once that three, three day three man breakaway was established, he was the heavy favorite. You know, it's one of those moves, Spencer. Like, I'm sure, you know, first of all, the first two hours, apparently they. They averaged 51 kilometers per hour for

[Spencer Martin]

the first into a headwind like a 20 kilometer an hour segment.

[Johan Bernal]

Insane. Yeah, insane. So it's kind of logical that the breakaway didn't go. I mean, how. How fast do you have to go 60 to.

[Spencer Martin]

To.

[Johan Bernal]

To go get away. So. But then finally, you know, with 76 kilometers to go, these three guys get clear. And it's one of those moves, you know, when you. When you're in the car and you hear, okay, and you. First of all, you see the chaos and the attack after attack after attack. You kind of feel the moment when the riders are running out of legs. And then you. You hear those three, three, three names on the radio. Jonathan Nirvajs, Michael Bjork under slack nu said, okay, that's game over. No, these are three huge engines. There is nothing the peloton can do to get those guys back. And that was the case, you know, I mean, they just stayed out there, always with a minute on afterwards, a 40 rider group with some really strong riders in there. Of course, it's a big group, so very difficult to get it organized. But still, I mean, and then from. From the moment these three guys were away, I think it was clear even to Lent, I would say, that Narvaez was going to win this stage. Narvaj was extremely praising his teammate, Michael Bjork. He called him the man of the race, which I think is. Is, you know, true. And yeah, I mean, with those steep walls at the end, man, it was 12, 13, sometimes 20%. This is Narvai terrain. And there was. There was nothing to be done against him today. Second stage win for him in this Giro. Third stage win for UAE since they are down to five riders. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Third. Pretty impressive since. Since they get back to Italy. So that's four stages stage or I guess five stage. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. They've won three of them. Yeah.

[Johan Bernal]

And then also fourth stage win in his career in the Giro already. We just went back to 2000. What was it, 2020 when he won him out?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, embarrassingly, yesterday. I don't Know what happened? I had a stroke or something. I said is I don't know if he's a good enough climber to win in this finish. And then I go back this morning and he wins a 4000 meter climbing mountain stage at the 2020 Tour over Mark Padoon. So.

[Johan Bernal]

And then we remember 20 when he won stage one against Pugach who was trying to win the stage. Yeah, so, so yeah, I mean impressive, impressive form. Even more impressive, Spencer, but also at the same time, you can see, listen, Narweis is on a high, has been inactive, you know, all the, the whole season basically because he had this bad crash in down under. Had, has prepared well, but obviously it's fresh, you know, super motivated, full of energy. He's not race tired. Right. And I think we're gonna, we're gonna see more of him in, I mean he actually said in his interview, you know, he didn't talk about himself but about the team, that they're not done, that they will win more stages. That's what I at least could, you know, understand between the lines. Yeah. And then about Red Bull Spencer and about Jay Henley, I'm kind of thinking, you know, could it be, I mean first of all you would say, okay, Jay Hindley does his job, you know, brings in the group and it's up to the leader to hold his wheel. You know, that's. And if, if Billy Jari is the leader, he has to, you know, make sure that he can hold the wheel of his, you know, best helper. Could it be that Jay Hindley wants to make a statement and say, okay, I'm also protected rider here, I won this race, that could be one explanation. I'm kind of tempted to say it's another reason. And the explanation behind Jay Hindley's, you know, upping the temple and bringing it to the finish as fast as possible is probably that he got word that Felix G was in trouble in the back of that group and then finally, so they got a little gap and G was in the back but didn't get gapped off time wise. But I think that's, that's probably the explanation if I'm just looking at it behind my screen.

[Spencer Martin]

Just so we have plausible deniability, I'll just do this. If I was a 34, 30 year old Australian who had won this race recently and everyone was gushing about my 22 year old Italian teammate and I had a chance to, yeah, put, to accelerate while putting our rival into difficulty, but then also gapping my teammate for the second Day in a row. I probably would because I'd be so sick of hearing about this kid. Like, I. I won the race. This guy. Oh, you're on mute, Johan. I like, he got six last year. I won it. Like, what are we talking about this Spencer.

[Johan Bernal]

I don't think. I don't think that's true. Honestly, I don't think. I think both yesterday and today. Today could be that.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, also, remember. I'm just saying that's how I would feel. We're not saying that's how it feels.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, Gal was in trouble, so, you know, try to see if we can get some time. And yesterday, listen, he was. They all. They're all dead. He just wants to get as soon as possible, as close as possible to the finish. And again, it's up to the leader to hold the wheel of your Gregario, you know, But I don't think any of those two situations were deliberate. From Jay Hindley against the situation and against Belizari. I don't think so.

[Spencer Martin]

Remember? And also, like, we're behind. Like, we don't have the. I can't wait for you, man.

[Johan Bernal]

Like, we.

[Spencer Martin]

We are losing time to Jonas. We've got to go. But remember, it was the same team where you're like, we're saying, oh, they probably wouldn't be fighting over this. And they had a writer leave because of a seventh and eighth place overall dispute. So there is precedent for infighting.

[Johan Bernal]

That's Vlasov. And yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Where if you were director, you'd be like, what. What are we doing? Like, guys, try to move up. Maybe both of you move up the standings. Don't fight over seventh place.

[Johan Bernal]

But the.

[Spencer Martin]

The stage, I just opens up a lot to talk about with a Narvaez. Better. Obviously, he's a great writer. He's. He's won two stages of this race. Just going back through his. Palmeira is better writer than I feel like he gets credit for. He's won multiple overalls, so he won. Toured on under in 2025, which you have to be a pretty good climber because there's Walanga Hill. Then he. We realize he's won Tour of Austria in 2023 and won three stages.

[Johan Bernal]

You have to be. Yeah, okay. To win Tour of Austria. If. If. I mean, I don't. We will have to look back. But you know, if there was not a cancellation of any of the big mountain stages. The winter of Austria, you have to be able to climb. I mean, otherwise, Tour of Austria, there's no way you can't win this it's, it's a hard race and I mean,

[Spencer Martin]

maybe there was like, maybe they didn't have high alpine, but you're climbing. I'm just looking at now like you're climbing quite a bit on all these stages.

[Johan Bernal]

There's almost always, I mean, I mean from off the top of my mind there's almost always the, the gloss, the gross Glockner or something similar, which is a monster of a climb in that race. So I don't know in 2023 what the course was, but I can tell you one thing without looking at it. It was not flat. It was mountainous for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

And so Navias wins his second stage. Will probably win more to be on. I think he was plus 600 before the start of the stage. I thought, you know, I'm not going to bet on him because how do I know that he's going to be in the move? And you know, it's interesting, Johan. There was many, many breakaways that did not make it today. Do you know how many breakaways Naras was in today? One. One. And he was in the one.

[Johan Bernal]

Well, two. Two. First one with the tree and then he created his own breakaway alone.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, but he, he didn't jump in. He didn't waste any energy jumping into a move that didn't come to fruition. And if you just go back and.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, Spencer, but he was already, I mean he was, he was already in the 40 man group. That got clear because the breakaway got away from that.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes, right. Yeah.

[Johan Bernal]

Before or at the moment. They got real back in the. The three guys got clear from those 40 guys. But just to give you an idea, Spencer, on how hard this was on these three guys. Because you know, you said it was headwind all the time. So the last 76.5 kilometers, which is the moment those three guys got away. Narweis average power over 76.5 kilometers is 330 watts average. And that includes flats and downhills. Right. So man, it was, it was hard for those three guys to stay away. Yeah. Because nobody of the three guys skipped a turn. You know, they were going for it.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, every time in the last, when he attacked Lecton, if they showed his power on screen, it was 3:30 or above because he was climbing the whole time. I mean that's, that's hard to do. I mean, it's hard to. Because you could be listening to this and say, I can go average 330 for 76k. It's like. Well, you got to remember even outside of the Fact that you're in a grand tour, this was two hours, an hour and a half into an allout race. Right.

[Johan Bernal]

So like he's presumably Spencer. Okay. So he's 65 kilos. So you know, it's, it's, it's about five watts per kilo there. Okay, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna. There's not many people listening to this podcast who can do that. There's a few, maybe.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, there's a lot of, like when

[Johan Bernal]

they're fresh, there's not many that are 65 kilos.

[Spencer Martin]

There's probably nothing. Exactly.

[Johan Bernal]

65 kilos. Yeah. 65 kilos and 330 watts. Okay. Yeah, that's, I should have made.

[Spencer Martin]

There's a lot of gravel bros that could probably go out and Rip 330 for six for 70Ks, but they're like 80-90kg. It makes a difference. And then now I've lost my train of thought. But Naras good, strong. And then I was just impressed with. He sees Berg Buerg go al. I mean, kudos to that guy. Like they had a plan and they knew what they were doing. And he kind of roll, he doesn't see anyone react. He rolls around. Lenson's behind him, follows him. Lenson barely gets across. That's how fast Buerg was already going when Naras got up there. And, and I mean the gaps are, if you watch this moment, the gaps are small and nobody can pull them back. It is just, they're gone before anyone can do anything. It also probably helps. There's three uber fast arrow bikes up the road. They all have arrow helmets on. They're all in skin suits. That definitely helps. Like today I thought.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, but so were the guys in the back.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean we should. The Colonago bike is very fast.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, okay. I, I, yeah, okay, let's not overhype it, Spencer. I think the main reason why they stayed away because it's three huge engines who collaborated perfectly. And then on top of that, you know, a group of 30, 40 riders is difficult to organize. Plus, let's not forget that these guys who are in front had teammates there. You know, there was a few, you know, ex guys, there was two other. So Arietta was also there and Jan Christen. So four of the five UAE riders were in the break. So obviously, you know, they were disturbing the. And you know, once, once they start to attack now, I mean, we saw Javier Romo attack when they had 50 seconds. There's nothing you can do. Nothing. You can be as Strong as you want against these three riders. There was no way they were coming back.

[Spencer Martin]

And I mean, on the. On the bike. I'm not trying to hype it up and get people to go buy it. I went to that camp and I came away thinking this is a problem that the sport has because UAE is essentially combined with Colonago, that the. The team and the bike brand are basically the same and they can say, we want this with the bike, and Colonago goes away and does that. And I was thinking, man, like, this is going to be an issue because they're going to have a significantly faster bike than other teams. And on top of that, what we're seeing in this race, the team 1 through 30 is. Is very good. Like, they might have the. There's these five guys left in the race. Could be five of the strongest riders left in the race. I mean, they are. We normally wouldn't notice it because they'd be riding for Adam Yates, but without a. Meat's gone. We're seeing. I'm not saying. I mean, I kind of am saying it's. It's kind of. It's impressive and a problem at the same time because you're just having these. All these writers pool onto one team.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, that's a strong. I mean, it's the strongest team in the world. There's no doubt about it. You know, they are in first position on all levels. You know, in terms of the points, the amount of victories. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Every one of the riders could win a stage at this race.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah. And they're starting to do that, by the way. They're starting to be. Become kind of the same with the women's team now also, you know, they just won the Tour of Spain, la Vuelta Espana for women. So. Yeah. But, yeah, listen, UAE is. It's the best team. It's the benchmark for a lot of teams. I think there are teams trying to get closer. You know, I don't know. I don't know if you saw. Do you know who's second.

[Spencer Martin]

Second best team right now in the world in rankings? Like points or wins?

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, rankings.

[Spencer Martin]

I'm gonna say suddh, quickstep, but just because I. Who. Who is it?

[Johan Bernal]

Red Bull. Red Bubble. They. They stepped up. They stepped up.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, do you know what they have?

[Johan Bernal]

Visma is now in fourth. I think the last time I checked. I checked a few days ago. Red Bull's in second and Visma's now in fourth. I don't know where Sudal is, but

[Spencer Martin]

do you know what? Red Bull has a lot of money. You know what? Visma doesn't have as much of money.

[Johan Bernal]

Exactly.

[Spencer Martin]

Okay.

[Johan Bernal]

I'm not saying.

[Spencer Martin]

I know it's like I just. I start to worry. But we should say like, before we slam uae. I was thinking about like in the post race show on TNT Sports, they're saying, oh, they buy all the best riders. It's not necessarily true. Like, they get a lot of riders. I don't think people were clamoring for Jonathan Naras. They just get a lot of riders that are good and they develop them well.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah. Plus, you know, once you are part of a winning team, you up your game. You know, we. We. There are some signings that they did, you know, like Berno K. You know, he's been. He's been, you know, not very present the last few years. Look at him now.

[Spencer Martin]

And he said he didn't have any other options.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah. So. So, yeah, winning is contagious, man. Very contagious.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And that. Yeah, it just so it.

[Johan Bernal]

It.

[Spencer Martin]

I. I'm trying to balance the fact that I'm like, ooh, this is. This is a little weird watching one team have so many good riders. But partially it's because they make good riders. Narvaez, very good. UAE Very good. How many more wins do they get at this race? Johan,

[Johan Bernal]

listen, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm going to go back to my statement of some teams and say, y. We want to win some stages. I would say try to win one stage in a ground tour first. You know, they have three already. This is not the end.

[Spencer Martin]

Three and five days we have.

[Johan Bernal]

Young Christian still needs to win a stage, so. And then who else do we have? Michael Bjork probably won't win a stage or. Well, we won't because he's sacked. And then who else is there?

[Spencer Martin]

Actually, I think the writer who won't win a stage and I'm very surprised by this is Antonio Margado.

[Johan Bernal]

It's not Amorgado. Yeah, he's. He's not been. Yeah. Okay. We don't know what kind of work he's doing, you know, but hey, don't count him out, man. He's strong.

[Spencer Martin]

He's probably the most talented rider on that team. And he's.

[Johan Bernal]

He's very strong.

[Spencer Martin]

That's very strong. Yeah. This is a guy who. He top five at Flanders as a teenager. I'm not sure anyone else in the sport has ever done that before.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe not.

[Spencer Martin]

That is pretty impressive. And he's the odd man out on this team. Here's the next question. Is this better? Is the crash on stage two making this a better Giro for uae?

[Johan Bernal]

I mean, obviously, for those riders who get opportunities, I would have. I would say they would definitely have preferred not have that crash and, you know, do a normal Giro. I think Narvaeis would still have had his opportunities to win these stages with their leaders still around. Arietta, maybe not. Arieta probably would have been on more on team duty. But listen, it's great opportunities and they're taking every chance they get, so you know how fast it can change, you know, like from. From day two being like, okay, you're in the corner where you know you're hurt. Obviously the morale must have been horrible, losing these three guys in one go. Two days later, everything turns around. And since then, they've won three times. I mean, it's a small dinner table, but it must be a lot of fun to sit at that table tonight and the other days.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And also it's kind of a funny, like, living thought experiment where they could be racing like this with Adam Yates, and I would be crushed. I would be like, what are they doing? They're wasting so much energy. But there's actually, if you think about, there's no rule that says you can't send these guys up the road to win stages while you have a GC threat in the team. But they probably would be racing differently if they still.

[Johan Bernal]

So imagine Spencer, so we're, you know, we're one week in the Giro Sat. So it's stage eight, but it's basically week one is finished. Yeah. You know, having won three stages, man, nothing has to happen. There's absolutely no pressure. It's. It's going to be so much fun. Those two next weeks. For now, them, like, they're just going to chill and whenever there's, you know, a chance, they'll go for it. If it doesn't work. No, no problem. No stress, no pressure. And that's usually when a team outperforms the expectations and everything seems to work. This is not the. This is not the last stage of uae. I'm going to predict.

[Spencer Martin]

I think they could get two more, probably realistically. And there's teams here like Team Picnic Post nl. Not only do they not have a stageman, they are struggling to get into the breakaways. Like, they weren't even in that chase group today.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, Spencer, I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not a fan of that team, but, man, that's a bad team, dude. It's. It's it's, you know, it's a bad team. Like, you know, I went through, I went through the list of names, half of them, I don't know. Maybe that's because I'm getting old, but I'm usually, I mean, I'm staying up to date with most of the riders. So it's probably because I have not, not seen them in results. And, and then, you know, if you look at the ranking, Spencer, they're outside, I mean, their world tour. So they're top 18, one of the top 18 teams and they're not in the top 30. All the teams combined. And then you just said that if they would be in the pro team classification, you know, where normally you have

[Spencer Martin]

to qualify,

[Johan Bernal]

you have to qualify in the top three to have an automatic invitation. They're 11th in the second division.

[Spencer Martin]

So actually I think there's 11 in front of them. So they'd be ranked 12th.

[Johan Bernal]

Really bad. Really bad. Really bad. No, that's not a good team.

[Spencer Martin]

That means. So they have a one year license right now. They didn't get a three year license because we don't really know why. But they were just granted a one year license. That's unusual. If they don't have a World Tour license next year, they won't be eligible. At the rate they're going at right now, they won't be eligible to race and Grand Tours because they won't be in the top three. Yeah. And they, that's not good at all. And you know, I was thinking like, man, why aren't they getting in these breakaways? You know, Pulte's up there, Bardiani's up there and you go back and you watch his break formations. Warren Bargils, they kind of, he's trying, he's trying his hardest. You know, like, they're just not as strong as Pulte and Bardiani right now. Yeah, yeah. Which is, I mean, actually those teams, I don't feel like get enough love. Those are, those teams are very good at what they do. And people kind of think like, oh, they're just out there for the TV time. But they, they come into these races with the focus and as we're seeing with. Who was that guy up Pig and Zola yesterday just comes from Pulte Perry and he's on Visma. He's one of their most important riders at this race. So that's.

[Johan Bernal]

I did a little bit of research, I mean I did a little bit of research yesterday on Pigonzoli. So we got, you know, he's I saw an interview. He's so, I mean, he looks so young. He looks like a school kid, you know, I, I, you know, I said, you know, where do I know this name from? You know, so don't remember which year. So 2025, 24, probably. I don't have 2023 or 24. Probably 23 or 24. When did Del Toro win the Tour de la. Was that 2024 or 2023?

[Spencer Martin]

I think it was 2024.

[Johan Bernal]

Okay, so think wins. Second. Giulio Pilizari, third.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting.

[Johan Bernal]

How pretty good. Just top three.

[Spencer Martin]

Wait, I was, I was wrong. Of course I was wrong. Because we always underestimate how much time has passed as we get older. It was 23 where he won Tour de Lanier. I feel like that just happened, but.

[Johan Bernal]

Okay. Yeah, okay, 23.

[Spencer Martin]

How does that happen? Johan, that. So those top two guys are huge sought after talents. How does. And then fourth was Matthew Riccatello, who was on a top team at the

[Johan Bernal]

time, also didn't go straight away to a big team. He was on Bardiani. What? First year?

[Spencer Martin]

Why don't, not to oversimplify this, why don't teams, just because there's always so much clamoring for the guy who wins Tour de la Veneer. Why don't they just say, you know, who's second, who's third? Maybe we should sign those guys.

[Johan Bernal]

I think probably, I mean, most, most likely because those, like, I'm going to say probably. I mean, I may be wrong, but I think that probably Belizari and Pig Anzoli, before the Tour de Avenir, already had a deal with those teams. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, probably, probably just break that, Break the contract.

[Spencer Martin]

Who cares?

[Johan Bernal]

And Del Toro was on. Del Toro was on this Argentinian team, but he was already scouted by. I mean, he was already on a Colnago when he won Tur de La. So he was. There was already a deal in place before he won.

[Spencer Martin]

But he's on this team, Armonix.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, Yeah. A pretty good program.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, very pretty program. They've actually reached out because we, I think, I don't know, it's like, well, who is a small team?

[Johan Bernal]

They listen, they listen to our podcast, by the way. I'm getting messages from the management now and then with information about new Mexican talents. So interesting to follow that teenage. Really good organization. I think they, you know, as if I, if my memory is correct, there's, there has been, maybe still is. There's a big problem with the Mexican Federation.

[Spencer Martin]

I Think the problem was it didn't

[Johan Bernal]

suspend it for corruption and stuff like that. And so basically that program, it's a private initiative, has kept the, the Mexican youth and talent detection alive and look, the result is there.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it is a super impressive program. I mean not, not to dwell too much on this but 2023 tutor Lavender del Toro wins. Pelizari second. Piganzoli's third, Riccatello's fourth. He was a full time pro at the time. Sixth, Mateus Matisse. Rondell who is riding really well at this race. Seventh, Jan Christian. And then nice Jonas Kolset who's also doing well at this race.

[Johan Bernal]

Interesting. Usually Tour de la is a pretty

[Spencer Martin]

good indicator of what's, what are these teams doing? Just go to Lavender and start writing signing contracts with writers. But yes, uie, they're going to do well. Do you know who what I thought was interesting watching the early parts of the stage and a team that things are not going well for Little Trek trying very hard to get in the breakaway. Milan tried, which is a good idea, but Monier was too smart, was marking him out. But I saw Chacone trying to get in the move and again I thought well, why, what's happening here? Why, why did.

[Johan Bernal]

Well, I mean he, he had to try. He had to try. He's gonna get in moves from now on because I saw that today he, he lost a lot of time. He's now down in gc. Okay, so I think that at the end he probably didn't insist and, and lost the time because he sees that obviously it makes no sense to, to, to fight for GC and maybe he's

[Spencer Martin]

just a really good teammate. He thought it's Wendy. I don't want to leave Derek G up here by himself on stage seven. But we can't, we can't rule that out. Well, should we. Let's take a quick break. Then we're going to talk about a few, some, some of the numbers from yesterday's stage and then preview stage nine. So we'll be right back.

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[Spencer Martin]

All right, Johan, we are back. We've got company. We got Bobby in the frame. Yeah, people are happy.

[Johan Bernal]

Bobby's back. Bobby was complaining. Bobby was complaining that he was not getting enough attention and he wanted to be on the show. Probably he's going to give his opinion about tomorrow stage, who he thinks is going to win and how he thinks he's going to play out. But yeah, here he is. Hey, Bobby.

[Spencer Martin]

Hey, Bobby.

[Johan Bernal]

You okay? Are you all right?

[Spencer Martin]

The number one thing people stop me in real life and talk to me about is the fact that I'm insane for thinking Paul Sixas can win the Tour. France number two. A close number two is Bobby. Bobby is the talk of the town. People love Bobby. But so tomorrow we have. It's a really. At first, I did not like the design of this Giro, and now it is. I. I'm getting in the groove. We have an uphill finish, but there's nothing. And it's just a. It's a. Una Puerto climb, as they would say, the VTA that's just flat along the. The Po Valley. And then we go up a huge climb state. That's stage nine. But quickly, Johan, let's. Before we preview that, I want to talk about some numbers that you pulled from yesterday's Stage seven. Really tough uphill finish at Blockhouse. Do you want to intro this graphic that we're about to put up?

[Johan Bernal]

Yes. So I saw this today. So there's a comparison. We talked already about that yesterday. A little bit. You did your own calculations about the last 4km and how much Felix Gal pulled back on Jonas. So if we look at this graph here, you know, we see The, The. The comparison between Felix Gal to the left and Jonas on the right, and this is the last 4km, 8.17% elevate steepness. Felix Gal did it in 12 minutes 6 and Jonas in 12 minutes 11. So we see the speed comparison and then. So the estimated power of Felix gal is 6.34 watts per kilo over those last 4 kilometers and Jonas 6.29. So it shows that Felix Gal was stronger. And I just want to put that out there to give a little bit of hope. As I said yesterday, I don't think it's going to matter, but Felix G was really strong yesterday. And also, I think Jonas platoed a little bit, plateaued a little bit, and got to his limit. I don't know if he really was pushing it all the way. I also say it probably won't matter because today already we saw the price being paid of yesterday's effort. Felix Gall, in the end, was in trouble on those steep climbs, and Jonas was in the front and responding to the attacks of Eulalio. And that's why Jonas is going to win the Giro and not Felix Galo, because you need to be there every single day. While I'm talking, Bobby's falling asleep here. Bobby, you can't do that. That's not respectful. Come on.

[Spencer Martin]

That's how he feels about this Gall, Jonas rivalry. He doesn't think it's a real. It's not a real rivalry because, I mean, Felix Gall is. He's an incredible climber. Is he there every day? That's probably not totally what he's known for. So I.

[Johan Bernal]

Well, also, Spencer, I think today's. Today's course, the final, was probably not his favorite terrain. You know, it's different efforts. Felix Gal is more of a diesel who's, you know, can maintain a very high pace for a long time, and this is more explosive. But listen, if you want to be in front and even if you want to be on the podium, you need to be there every single day. You know, I'm just going back to, I think Volta Catalunya, you know, where. Where Gal was, was. Was really good. He was close to Jonas or the closest in the two mountaintop finishes, and then lost time in the downhill on one of the stages when. When Remco pushed it. You know, if you want to be a Grand Tour podium rider, and I'm not saying he's not being on podium most likely. If you look at, you know, his strength and his fitness, he's most likely going to be on the Podium, but it's not a guarantee, and I think it's almost a guarantee that Jonas is going to be on the podium and win this Giro. That's the difference.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean, I do think I agree with you, but I. After the show yesterday and then I looked at the course, I did wonder, were we a little too hard on Felis gol because stage 10 is the first and last time trial. And then basically from stage 14 on, it is perfect Felis g terrain. So, you know, yesterday was not even really particularly a good. That's not even what he's good at. You know, we're going to get into the Dolomites, into the Alps, these multi mountain stages, and they're higher. That's kind of what he's better at than what we saw in stage seven. So I just did wonder, like, is this maybe a better course for him than we thought? But we shouldn't mention the fact that at Catalonia he was in second overall and then Remco dropped him on the descent and he. And then Bisma could exploit that. Yeah, that wasn't a great showing. Maybe he's learned though, from that and he's ready to go. Yeah.

[Johan Bernal]

Well, I think thanks to that. Was Lipowitz in second then? Yeah, thanks to that.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. Yeah, Red Bull's got a lot of good writers. Yeah, it's a good team. Yeah.

[Johan Bernal]

And then another thing, Spencer, I mean, just, I just wanted to, you know, show with the numbers what we kind of, you know, we're guessing yesterday based on, based on the time that he got back and, you know, just say, okay, it was, it was a good win of Jonas yesterday, but it was not as dominant as we feared was going to happen, which is good news for everybody. Right. Then another thing I saw today, Spencer, which is. Which is quite telling, we've said already many times, you know, the level keeps going up and up and up in pro cycling. I saw this quote here of Egan Bernal. He said in an interview. So yesterday, Egan Bernal lost three minutes. Right. So he said, okay. I mean, it's difficult. I don't want to talk too much about numbers because in the end, I did lose three minutes today, but at the same time, I think I did my best 40 minutes ever. And he was three minutes down. And this is a double Grand Tour winner, Tour de France winner, Giro winner, Egan Bernal. Right now, most likely, if not sure, has a lot higher level than when he won the Tour in the Giro. And he's not even close to being a contender now to, to win or the podium. So that's what it means, what we mean by every year the level gets higher and higher. I've heard some numbers from people within the peloton that you could roughly say at least one percent or one and a half percent increase in level and performance every year. You know, take that over three years. That's almost 5% faster. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And.

[Johan Bernal]

And, you know, if you're. If you're three years without improving your drop.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, and that's what. There's. So many riders are like, what happened to that guy? It's because he's not. They're not getting worse. They're just not getting better at the rate they need.

[Johan Bernal]

Exactly. Well, they're not. They're not getting. They do get better, but they're not getting better enough to keep up with the improvement of the whole peloton.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean, here's. Here's just a hard example we have. So Derek G. Publishes his power. Thank you, Derek. Derek G. West, thank you so much for doing this. 2024 Tour de France. Obviously these are different races, different race situations, but flatter to buy is a long climb. He did it in 45 minutes, 411 watts yesterday for 40 minutes. So roughly the same time, 433 watts, you know, and he's off the back. He's getting better and he's off the back, you know, like that. That's.

[Johan Bernal]

He lost, what, 1 minute 40.

[Spencer Martin]

1 minute 40. It's pretty good, actually, but.

[Johan Bernal]

And how much did he lose up?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he was going against Teddy Picacho.

[Johan Bernal]

How much did he use on Jonas?

[Spencer Martin]

He lost about five minutes on Jonas, so.

[Johan Bernal]

Oh, wow. Yeah, okay.

[Spencer Martin]

But. And then yesterday I had Jonas just trying to calculate the. The headwind and how much that was adding to his power. I had him at 6 watts, 6.5 watts per kilo, which is pretty good for 38 minutes. That's very good. And then I team, the, like teams, they have real power from their riders, and then they have these complex tools, these sophisticated tools to try to forecast what the leaders are doing. And they had them at 6.5, too. So, I mean, that is a strong effort. And the fact that Felix Gall was there and then Jai Hindley and Pelizarry aren't losing time in the last 4K shows you that the level is very high at this Euro. It's not. Not a cakewalk. Even though I do agree with you that Jonas is probably going to win.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah. Yeah. I also think, Spencer, that Jonas right now is not at his max. He's. He's really good. But he knows that the Tour is coming, and he also knows that if he's 90%, he can also win the Giro. Doesn't need to be super, super dominant to win this Giro, given the rivals he. He's facing.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, and actually where he was really good last year, and you don't remember it because someone else was way better, was the dofine just putting out incredible power numbers at the doping last year. So he probably has a level to go up. I mean, this is a tough. I. I think. Did I say this in the show yesterday? Like, this is not a normal thing just to be like, oh, I'm gonna do the Tour and the Giro combined. Gc. We used to think winning the double was impossible in the modern era until 2024. You know, Froome did it in 2018, and he didn't win the Tour. Dumalon did it. He didn't win the Tour. Like, it. It is a very hard thing to do. So I'm sure they're trying to calculate what he needs to be at to try to do it. And you can't be races.

[Johan Bernal]

You know, I. I'm. I'm. I also. I'm a bit. A bit skeptical with that way of thinking, because that's theory. You know, you can say, okay, I'm not at my maximum. I still have a level to go up to be at the Tour. And you know what? That level never comes. You know, it sometimes happens that you say, okay, well, you know, I'm not maximum. You know, forms is not. It's not that predictable. You know, sometimes you. You get in really good shape without having a real explanation because it didn't do any. Anything special to be in that good shape. And other. And other times you try, try, try, and it just doesn't come, you know, so I'm not saying that's going to be the case with Jonas, but it's not a guarantee. You know, it's not a guarantee that all of a sudden he's going degrees of, you know, another 5% better by the Tour. That's. That's not. That's not a guarantee.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it's a really good point. And I think a lot of times people focus on the input, you know, So I do X training, and I get Y fit. But what they don't, but they kind of underestimate, is like, how is your body reacting internally? How are you resting? All of this affects the form that you end up with, and people just tend to focus on the input a lot. So. But tomorrow stage nine, this is a. This zero is getting serious. These are tough stages back to back to back to back. So stage nine, uphill finish. It goes along. They. They start at the coast in Seria and it. If you've ever been to the Po Valley. I'm from Kansas and it is about as flat as Kansas. There's not a lot of hills, so it's just flat. There's a little kicker. 3k at 5% they go to. They go through Bologna and then they turn toward the Apennine mountains and they go up the. It's basically climbs from the last, like the last 70k basically are all uphill in some respect. But the final climb is officially 11k long at 6.5.8% average. So 6% it's gets steeper at the end though. Johan, how is this going to play out? It's kind of a tricky stage. If you want to be in the breakaway, if you want to control it. It's also tricky.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, I'm not sure, Spencer, you know, it's 184km mountain finish. It's a category one climb. You know, I think. I think if you look at the overall profile, it's. It's deceivingly easy.

[Spencer Martin]

But

[Johan Bernal]

the last part, the last part is the last three kilometers. I think it's around 11%. Some sections at 13% even can be a breakaway. Can be a GC day. I think independently if it's a breakaway or not, we are going to see a battle and differences in the gc. There's going to be a race of the main favorites, but whether it's a breakaway in front or not. So breakaway is difficult to predict. Of course we don't know. But what I do know is that I mean do know. I mean, not sure, but I think Jonas probably won't think pink yet. I think with, you know, that kind of climb and especially the. The. The last 3km are the hardest part. Will probably keep pink tomorrow. And Jonas is going to get in pink after the time trial. That's my prediction.

[Spencer Martin]

It's definitely going that way because three. We should also say Euaria looked very good today. He was aggressive coming into the finish. So he's not laying down. He's not giving up. 3:15 is his lead over Vindegaard. I also think Visma controls the stage. Jonas wins the stage. I think that's going to happen. I don't think he gets 315 on, but say he gets a minute and a half. Let's Say he gets two minutes, then he's gonna take the. Yeah, but that's. That's good for Bisma because you go into the first rest day without the leader's jersey, because tomorrow's the last. Sorry, not the second rest day. Tomorrow's the last stage before the second rest day. And then you don't have all those media obligations during the rest day. Somebody else is doing it, and then you get the yellow jersey or the pink jersey on Tuesday. So that's probably what they're thinking.

[Johan Bernal]

I think a lot of you. I think Olalio loses a one and a half minute tomorrow.

[Spencer Martin]

Spencer, one and a half, and then about one and a half, two in the time trial. You think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds about right. And we're. We're talking very flippantly about a man losing three to four minutes over the course of two stages. But I also think this could apply to a lot of the other GC contenders as well. I think Iona is probably. Yeah, exactly.

[Johan Bernal]

Listen, is good on his way. Well on his way to maybe be close to top five, you know, between fifth and tenth, I mean. Yeah, I think. I think with everything depends, Spencer, on, you know, a guy like that. Listen, he's a good climber. We've seen already some really good performances of him in the past. Like, I. I remember seeing him. I think it was last year, the first time he really came to my attention in two down under. Actually, he did. I said, where does this guy come from? You know, he was on a. I think he was on a Portuguese team before, so really good pickup from Bahrain this year. Got the confidence of the team, so he can climb. Everything depends on, you know, once. Once a rider like that is in the lead of a Grand Tour, you know, they're in. They're in a special zone. It's, you know, it's like, okay, they can. They can. They can surpass their possibilities because they are so much in the zone and in the leads, you know, this great feeling. And then it depends, right? Sometimes people get out of the jersey and then they just. It's like a balloon that they just pinch the balloon and just deflates and. And they're gone. And others hang on. I'm kind of tempted to think that Lalio can hang on to a good placing in this Giro once he loses the pink jersey.

[Spencer Martin]

Kind of reminds me a little bit of, you know, Ben o' Connor is a guy we've seen take big chunks of time, you know, early in a Grand Tour, and then he holds on and Has a good finish in the overall.

[Johan Bernal]

Look at the. Look at the Vuelta. The Vuelta was it last two years

[Spencer Martin]

ago where Primos wins And here's the second.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And that was him holding on the whole time basically in the Tour. Yeah.

[Johan Bernal]

In the Tour he got four. He got fort with when he was in the break on the stage in Tina.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep.

[Johan Bernal]

So, I mean, I personally think o' Connor is probably a bigger engine for the moment than EU by the way. I think o' Connor is going to do a good Giro. He's going to be up there, top five, I think almost sure. Maybe close to the podium.

[Spencer Martin]

I think he could be.

[Johan Bernal]

He.

[Spencer Martin]

You're right. He is a big engine. He want people forget he won the hardest stage. He won the Queen stage of the Tour last year. So it's hard, not. Not easy to do. We should also say on the final climb tomorrow, a little deceptive what I said when I said the stats, because the first 5k is 3 1/2% average. So the second 5k is very hard. Like double. Double digit average probably.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's going to be really hard for breakaway to stay away if you start calculating the time they would need. It's massive. And I don't think the gc. I mean, we know Bahrain's going to control this thing. Why are they doing it? We don't quite know why. And we saw, we did see a clip from inside the bus and Domino Caruso was talking about how just important to defend the jersey. It's like it's an honor to have the jersey and you have to defend it. People might not agree with that, but they'll probably set pace tomorrow because of that.

[Johan Bernal]

Plus Spencer, it's very well known that, you know, having the leader's jersey on a team is. It ups the level of the whole team. You know, they. When you're pulling and you know everybody. And we're going to be day nine tomorrow, right? Stage nine. You know, everybody's already getting really tired. You know, when you pull, everybody suffers. But when you look back and you have the leader's jersey, that mental suffering is completely different. Because from now on there's already a lot of people that are super tired and they ask themselves, why are we even here? You know, we just hang in here, just get through the day. You know, the majority of the riders are in that. In that case, if you're on a team like Bahrain, you know why you are suffering and that that makes a big difference. So I think I agree with you. I think Bahrain Will go for it and keep the break close together. I mean, and maybe in agreement with Visma, we saw the other day also that Bahrain was doing the work, but Visma did put a guy always with them, and, you know, when one guy was tired, they switched to another guy. So I think it will be a collaboration of both of those teams tomorrow.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, thanks, Johan. And you think Jonas is going to win, right? That's your pick?

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I would think it would be a little. It's not. It's not even. It's not a particularly good climb for Felix Golf, you know, so.

[Johan Bernal]

Well, you know, I think tomorrow is going to be a good test for Felix Gal and for Pilizadi also, you know, if they can. If Gal can repeat the performance of Blockhouse, you know, now goal starts to ride with a little bit more pressure because everybody's expecting him to be the second best in the race again. Today.

[Spencer Martin]

He.

[Johan Bernal]

He showed a bit of weakness. That's not necessarily going to be the same case tomorrow. Look, for example, look, Bernal. Bernal, yesterday was. Was really not good today. He was up there in the final. He. I think he was fourth of that.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, he looked really good.

[Johan Bernal]

Yeah. So it's. I'm curious to see how Gall is gonna. If he's gonna confirm that level, which, you know, he should, but, you know, sometimes it doesn't work out that way. We'll see.

[Spencer Martin]

I could regret saying this. I've got a bad feeling about Pillazzari. I just. What. Coming in with so much hype. And I was part of the hype. It's just I. I'm a little concerned that he's gonna. He's gonna cave like a souffle or something. And I heard.

[Johan Bernal]

But yesterday, I mean, yeah, yesterday he showed a little bit of, you know, that. That weakness by not being able to follow Hindley in the final today again. But I think overall his condition is solid. I think he's in for a podium.

[Spencer Martin]

But it's like you're in a relationship and everything seems great. Then you start noticing cracks, and it's like, now I'm remembering. Riccatello, come and buy. You know, remember he was fading through the last week of the V last year, and Ricatella was stronger. It's like, oh, maybe this isn't the guy to beat Jonas. I don't know what I was thinking, but, yeah. And I heard that he spent like. It was like the weeks before the zero. He was at 30. He was at a hotel at 3, 700 meters or something like that and you have to take a cable car to get up there.

[Johan Bernal]

Where is that hotel?

[Spencer Martin]

It's called like the Glacier House. It's in the Dolomites. There's no road up there. And it's like, is that good? Is that even good preparation now I

[Johan Bernal]

now, I mean, I'm sure they know what they're doing.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. It just shows like he's very focused. But sometimes being so dialed in is not that great for you. Especially at a young age you can

[Johan Bernal]

lot of pressure, you know, like. Yeah, you know, Italia, the Italian promise. All the pressure for him.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. And just the pressure can really get to you. Like ego Murnault. I doubt he's feeling a lot of pressure. You know, he's been there, seen it all to pelizarry. The feelings probably feel so big right now. It's just he's experiencing everything for the first time. But Johan for sure we'll be back to break this down. I'm curious to see how it plays out. We'll be back tomorrow.

[Johan Bernal]

Okay. Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Thanks Spencer.

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