Can Anyone Challenge Remco Evenepoel at the Time Trial World Championships? | THEMOVE+

Summary

THEMOVE+ – Can Anyone Challenge Remco Evenepoel at the Time Trial World Championships?

Host: Lance Armstrong (not present in this episode as host)
Co-Hosts: Spencer Martin & Johan Bruyneel
Date: September 19, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This lively episode of THEMOVE+ dives deep into the state of late-season professional cycling: post-Vuelta reflections, transfer news, the rise and challenges for national cycling programs, and an in-depth preview of the upcoming UCI World Championships time trial in Rwanda. The central theme: can anyone beat Remco Evenepoel on a challenging TT course, or is he simply untouchable?

Martin and Bruyneel also provide sharp commentary on the business and politics of cycling, recent race action, roster moves, and the ongoing intrigue of WorldTour promotion/relegation.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Post-Vuelta Reflections & Recent Racing

• Vuelta Hangover: Both hosts talk about the Vuelta's "disappointing end" but note cycling's hectic September calendar means no pause for breath.

  • "We got back into it straight away. So many races this week, too many to watch." (Johan, 02:20)

• Race Recaps:

  • GP Wallonie:

    • Arnaud De Lie, back in top form, wins after a long intercontinental flight; Emilian J (a frequent runner-up) again on the podium.
    • "Impressive demonstration of power from Ardo. It's like the old Arnaud is back." (Johan, 03:52)
    • Health setbacks and form: De Lie's return after illness/motivation issues.

  • Tour of Slovakia:

    • Paul Magnier dominates with three straight sprint wins at just 21 years old: "huge talent" with a unique sprinting style.
    • Notable alumni from his development team "Trinity Racing" include Tom Pidcock and Luke Lamperti.

  • US & UK Racing Decline:

    • Reflect on the near-disappearance of UK teams mirroring US struggles.
    • Philadelphia International Cycling Classic reportedly returning, but hosts are skeptical about American races recapturing former glory.
    • "You watch the Canada races and they are... they just pop off the screen. And then...even Tour California was great... I just worry now with Philly, has the layoff been so long that the local residents are like, what is going on?" (Spencer, 09:02)

  • Tour of Luxembourg:

    • Young talents making waves—Romain Grégoire scores an "impressive win," Matthew Cockleman (Lotto development squad) gets noticed.
    • Matthias Skjelmose fresh from Canada takes uphill finish.
    • Brandon McNulty tipped to take overall victory, yet surprisingly absent from the US World's lineup.

---

2. U.S. Riders & World Championships Selection Controversy

• Self-funded Riders:

  • Shocking revelation that elite US riders (even pros) must pay out-of-pocket for World Championships, due to federation policy/budget:
    • "Every one I've talked to is paying their own way. Even junior athletes are doing GoFundMe." (Spencer, 13:20)
    • "That's not normal...I mean, it's still a big federation. I think they're properly funded, I guess." (Johan, 13:44)
  • They contrast with Mexico, where rider self-funding is sadly "expected," but highlight the embarrassment for USA Cycling.

• Federation Priorities:

  • Call for transparency:
    • "Maybe you can look it up... how many staff people, how many officials go to the Worlds and will sleep in a nice hotel and fly business class over to Rwanda." (Johan, 14:25)

• Broader Consequences:

  • Listener Q&A prompts further criticism of USA Cycling for under-investment and missed athlete opportunities.

---

3. Politics and the Rwanda World Championships

• Rwanda as Host & Geopolitics:
  • Discuss safety, Rwanda’s political context (Paul Kagame’s regime), and why the event landed in Africa: seen as a bargaining chip for IOC votes.
    • "It's part of the bigger picture. When Lapartient wanted IOC presidency, African votes were important. That's why he promised a big cycling event in Rwanda." (Johan, 19:18)
    • "If you are actually in power, it's extremely difficult to lose an election..." (Johan, 22:34)
  • Colorful aside into the insular, political world of international sports governance, with comparisons to the recent IOC presidential race.

---

4. More Autumn Races & Rider Transfer News

• Sprint Showdown at the Kopen Schaal van Vlaanderen:
  • Milan, Groenewegen, Merlier renew a top-class rivalry days after Vuelta's end, proof of the packed autumn schedule and deep sprint field.
    • "We got to see one of the best sprint battles of the year." (Spencer, 26:10)
• Transfer Market Nuggets:
  • Jumbo-Visma/Red Bull's skill picking up undervalued riders (e.g., Filippo Forinelli, Davide Piganzoli).
  • Alpecin's budget constraints and outgoing experienced core (Vermeersch, Hermans, Plankaert) but faith in their development system and Belgian "talent factory."
    • "It's logical that you don't make that special effort to improve those contracts unless they were really irreplaceable. And these guys are replaceable... There's only one [at Alpecin] that's not replaceable. That's Mathieu van der Poel." (Johan, 35:04)

---

5. Promotion/Relegation & WorldTour Politics (38:15+)

• Unox vs. Cofidis:
  • A neck-and-neck battle for the final WorldTour promotion slot, with every late season race and every UCI point a factor.
  • As Intermarché-Wanty folds into Lotto, there may only be 17 WorldTour teams next year, giving the Tour de France and ASO more "wild card" invitations.
    • "I'm sure ASO will push for 17 teams, not 18. But whether that's going to happen or not—still to be seen." (Johan, 42:34)
    • If forced to bet, both pick Unox over Cofidis due to their much higher points velocity in 2025.

---

World Championships Time Trial – Course Breakdown & Predictions

Course Details

• Date & Location: Sunday, September 21, Kigali, Rwanda (altitude ~1500–1700m)
• Features: 40.6 km, four meaningful climbs (some at steep grades or cobbled), long for a modern TT, finishes uphill.

Favorites & Analysis (47:30+)

• Main Contenders:

  • Remco Evenepoel: Massive favorite due to specific TT training, fresh legs, and focus.
    • "Remco is the big favorite for a specific reason: he's been able to specially train for this." (Johan, 48:52)
  • Tadej Pogacar: Always a threat, especially on hard, undulating terrain—though perhaps not yet peaking til the road race.
  • Jay Vine: Dark horse after his Vuelta form and exceptional climbing time trial credentials.
    • "Jay Vine, if he has a super day, is probably the biggest, the biggest wild card." (Johan, 49:44)

• Tactical Outlook:
  "On these flat, fast courses, Remco Evenepoel's almost unbeatable... But this is some tough climbing." (Spencer, 49:44) "I still think Remco wins the world championship's time trial, probably." (Johan, 50:16)

---

Listener Q&A – Hypothetical Tactics & the Vuelta Outcome (51:03+)

• Reverse the Teams:
  • If Vingegaard (on UAE) & Almeida (on Visma), would results differ?
    • Both agree: outcome likely the same, as winning came down to individual strength on key climbs, not simply team tactics.
    • "In the main stages... it was man against man. Angliru—he was not able to shake him, whether on Visma or UAE." (Johan, 53:48)
    • Almeida's personality and style ("shockingly laid back") may not fit Visma’s structure.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On De Lie's Return to Form:
  "This is the Arnaud that, that we all like to see. I think he's close to that level again." —Johan, 05:06

• On US Cycling’s Funding Issues:
  "It’s embarrassing... they say their goal is to win medals at Worlds. So you'd think if that was your goal, you would incentivize these riders to go." —Spencer, 13:57

• On Cycling Politics:
  "It's part of the bigger picture... African votes were going to be important and that’s part of why [the UCI] has promised a big cycling event in Rwanda." —Johan, 19:18

• On Team Structure and Rider Value:
  "There's only one rider on Alpecin that's not replaceable. That's Mathieu van der Poel." —Johan, 35:08

• On The Complexity Behind WorldTour Team Numbers:
  "I know the Tour de France would rather have 16 World Tour teams than 18 because that gives them more room to invite teams. ASO will push for 17." —Johan, 42:34

• On Remco Evenepoel's Preparation:
  "He’s been able to specially train for this... nobody else did the same kind of training." —Johan, 48:52

• On What-Ifs and Team Dynamics:
  "What kind of tactic would have changed the outcome? The biggest climbs were man against man." —Johan, 52:06

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recent Race Rundown: 02:41–10:38
• US & UK Racing; Philly Classic: 08:23–10:09
• Tour of Luxembourg; McNulty Discussion: 10:25–12:43
• USA Cycling Funding Issues: 12:43–16:53
• World Champs in Rwanda – Political Commentary: 17:26–24:18
• Transfer Market Deep Dive: 27:08–37:14
• WorldTour Promotion/Relegation: 38:15–44:08
• Time Trial World Champs Preview: 47:03–51:03
• Listener Q&A: Vuelta What-Ifs: 51:03–55:54

---

Tone & Style

Friendly, deeply knowledgeable, candid, and unfiltered. The hosts bring in plenty of insider perspective—sometimes veering (humorously!) into the political or organizational weeds—which gives listeners a sense of being behind the scenes in the world of pro cycling.

---

In Summary

This THEMOVE+ episode is indispensable for fans following pro cycling’s autumn calendar, the World Champs TT, and ongoing team/organizational intrigue. If you want a preview of Remco's (likely) coronation in Rwanda, sharp transfer analysis, and frank talk about the sport's awkward underbelly, this episode is all killer, no filler.

Transcript

[Spencer Martin]

The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Introducing Family Freedom from T Mobile we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 82999 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact T Mobile with the UCI.

[Johan Berniel]

Having a French president who's very very I would say facilitating the wishes of ASO friend the front Tour de France. I know that the Tour de France would rather have 16 World Tour teams than 18 because that gives them more room to invite teams. It would still be the same teams probably, but it's in their hands in their decision, right? So I'm sure that ASO will push to for 17 teams and not 18. I'm 100 sure. But whether that's going to happen or not, that's still to be seen.

[Spencer Martin]

Everybody. Welcome back to the Move plus our weekly edition of the show that runs in the through the offseason and in weeks when there's not major races. Just as a show note, we will be back next week with an outcomes for to preview the World Championships. There'll be a move going over the World Championships and then when we get into our offseason rhythm we'll be doing this weekly. We do answer questions at the end from listeners so if you have questions send them at to Infoado team and we'll get to them if we can. I'm Spencer Martin, I'm here with Johan Berniel. We are going through our it's our our basket of post VA topics, a little bit of recent racing, some transfers and World Championships time trial coming up this Sunday we'll do a light light preview and predictions on that. But Johan, first of all how are you doing post post vta. How are you coming down from the race?

[Johan Berniel]

I mean we all, we I mean we've already talked about, you know that it was a disappointing end of the va but you Know, we got back into it straight away. You know, there's many, many races this week. Too many to watch them all or at least to watch them all at the same time. We can't keep up. So. So yeah, doing good.

[Spencer Martin]

And the, it's, that's great to hear the first one that, yeah, it is an odd rhythm. So the Vuelta finishes and then I kind of have to go back and catch up. It was different this year because there was no Sunday stage. So I got to watch GP Montreal as it happened. And then we kind of like have two days off and then there's all these races flying at you. The first one that stuck out, stuck out to me. The GP Walloni won by Arno Dali, who we were just talking about in a private conversation recently. Like, oh, he's like not had a great fall, but he looked incredible in that sprint finish. Benny. And BER was third, who I, I frankly had never heard of this writer who finished second. Emilian J. Yeah, Emilian J.

[Johan Berniel]

He had. You would have to check Spencer. But I think, I mean if, I think it's probably one of the record holders of the most second places this year. He had so many.

[Spencer Martin]

So man, looking at his page now, it's almost all second places.

[Johan Berniel]

He's a good rider. He's a good rider. But yeah, the Lee man, I mean it's, it's kind of incredible actually to see, you know, like two days before these guys were still in Canada. So basically.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I know.

[Johan Berniel]

Long flight, you know, they've been there all week. Long flight back and then straight into racing. And I mean, the Lee is from Bologna, he's a French speaking Belgian and it's, it's, I mean, it's a hard race in which finishes in a sprint. I mean, back in. I rode the Grand Prix when I was a pro many times and it was always climbers. There was never a sprint like this. It was always guys at the end who, you know, got away. The level of the peloton now is so good that the parkours of the Grandpill and all I need doesn't split it up, but you need to be really strong. And I think it was an impressive demonstration of power of Ardo. After the Tour, you know, after the Tour he got back on a really good, good level, you know, won the. Was it the Renov? Yeah, the Renov Tour. He won that and, and you know, he's won a few races since. So he's back on a really, really good level. It looks like the old Arnaud is.

[Spencer Martin]

Back Yeah, I, I would say answered any questions I had about his form. I know he was having like health problems, like maybe he got Lyme disease or something. Is that right?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, but that was, I think that was last year. That was last year. This year he struggled in the spring, was completely out of shape. I think there was some kind of issues about motivation but they got him back on the rails. And this is the Arnold that, that we all like to see. You know, I think. Was it two years ago when he did this impressive win there in, in Quebec? Yeah, I think. Or was it last year? Two years ago. Two years ago. I think he's close to that level again. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

He started the season in a, a condition that I know very well. I, as someone that knows the, the body shape that he was sporting at the start of the year, I can speak on great authority about what happened over that season. But outside of delete, we have the Tour of Slovakia going on and this is going to be an easy one because there's been three stages and we have the same first place and second place every day. Paul Monier Finn winning. Lucas Kubis from Unabet Tetama Rockets which I mean that's a pretty good result for a team like that getting second every day.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. I mean stay the same. I mean three bunch prints Magni. There's no, nobody even close. They also have the best team, I think the best lead out team. At least the two sprints I saw. It's basically they drop him off and he just has to pass the last guy. I mean he does. I mean he's fast. You know this, this is. I think so. He won three out of three stages. This, today was his ninth win of the season. I think. You know, for a guy of 21 years old, big talent, big. I think we talked about him. Was it last year or two years ago in our up and commerce? I think I think it was last year.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I might have been two years. I remember being on it have been.

[Johan Berniel]

Two years ago already.

[Spencer Martin]

The central line texting with you about it. And I think that was two years ago.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So it's just 21 and he won his first race of the year. The Etoile de Bege.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. And then that was talent, great talent. And the way he wins sprints, he has, he has a lot of power from sitting down like from he sprints from this down from in the seat sometimes. And yeah, I mean huge, huge, huge talent comes from. Actually comes from the same development team as Tom Pitcock before he Turned pro. He was on Trinity Racing.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, really?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Wow. How did he get hooked up with Trinity? Does that look. I guess that's as like a specialized funnel kind of, so.

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, yeah, no, I mean, they. They don't exist anymore now. I think they. They. They stopped last year. But I mean, there's. There's many. There's many good writers from there.

[Spencer Martin]

I believe Luke Lamparti was on that.

[Johan Berniel]

He was there too. Thomas Glo was there also. I mean, plenty of others. Really? Yeah, I mean, one of the. One of the good teams that went away, like, almost every single team in the uk actually, there's. There's almost no teams left in the uk.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it's kind of a. It's like what's happening in the. What's happened in the US Is happening in the UK with, like, the disappearance of racing and teams. Not good. If you're trying to develop.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, I mean, Speaking of the U.S. did I see that Philadelphia is coming back next year?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I got a press release about that. I guess it's coming back. Do we know what level it's coming back at?

[Johan Berniel]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Spencer Martin]

I don't know. And yeah, it could be. People love that race. Like, it was like, a big part of American cycling. The only thing I'm concerned about is maybe this isn't the forum to share it, but, like, you watch the. The Canada races and they are. They just pop off the screen. Like, the cities look amazing.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

The. There's so much, like, fanfare around them. And then I just worry, like, even. I mean, Tour California was great. Like, that was one. That was an amazing US Race. But, like, the thing I worry about when we watch, like, Baltimore, you're like, the roads are not repaved. The roads are in terrible condition. The populace seems a little confused about what's going on. I just worry now with, like, Philly, has the layoff been so long that the race comes back and the local residents of Philly are like, what is going on here? Like, what is. It's just like a. US Races sometimes struggle to bridge that gap between. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Before it was part of the, The. The culture in Philadelphia. It was a classic.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And it's been gone for a long time.

[Johan Berniel]

Like, almost wasn't. Wasn't. Wasn't Philadelphia at some point. Also the national championships. Like, the first American rider finishing in that race was national champion.

[Spencer Martin]

I believe our friend George H. Won it that way at least once. But yeah, it was like.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I don't remember that the race.

[Spencer Martin]

Would happen, and then that's how they decided the winner.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Which I kind of. I kind of don't hate that. I mean, because you get all the best writers there. Whereas the US National Championships now struggles because it's like right in the middle of the Giro. So it's hard for people to come over and do it.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

But. Yeah. So Philly could be back. That's exciting. We'll see. We'll see. I'm tentative, tentatively excited about it. Another race that's happening. Tour of Luxembourg. It's had three stages. We had Roman Gregoire winning stage one.

[Johan Berniel]

Impressive, Impressive win by Raggy War.

[Spencer Martin]

Very impressive.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And then stage two was like better Luxembourg sprinters and I think like the Luxembourg World national champion crashed in the final few hundred meters.

[Johan Berniel]

So in. In. In Tour of Luxembourg, there's a national team of Luxembourg with riders from other teams that don't participate. So this. I think he's 21 years old. I forgot his name now. What's his name?

[Spencer Martin]

Matthew Cockleman.

[Johan Berniel]

Cockleman. Yeah. He's on Lotto. He's on Lotto.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, okay. That's why he's so good. That makes.

[Johan Berniel]

He's on Lotto development team and turns pro next year with the World Tour team of Lotto. But still impressive stage win. And then. And then today was Matthias Kelmosa, who. Who won the uphill finish also straight from Canada back here. And then, you know, as soon as this is finished, then they fly to Rwanda. No, there's not going to be much time to adapt. No, but I think the Tour of Luxembourg, Spencer, it's going to be won by. By Brandon McNulty. You know, McNulty's up there in. In almost the same time. I think he's six or eight seconds down in GC tomorrow. There's a long time. This 26 kilometer time trial, which in modern cycling for such a small stage race is long.

[Spencer Martin]

So long.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

That's more individual time trialing than the.

[Johan Berniel]

So. So, Yeah, I think McNulty, especially in. On the form he is now. He's. He's winning that time trial and closing in the overall, I think.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And he was third today. So he's eight seconds back with time bonuses there. Jordy. Jordy. Jordan Jat got second. Another. You guys had a great season and he's going to Worlds, I believe on the French team, we should mention kind of a weird. I don't fully understand it, but like Brandon McNulty on great form, wins Montreal. He's going to win Tour of Luxembourg doesn't go to World Championship.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, not going to the World Championships. I checked the participants list. He's not on there. I don't get it. I don't understand.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's Matthew Ricatello, another writer, that you think there will never be a better World Championships for him.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, didn't we get the information, I mean, not that it mattered. I mean, these guys, they have good enough contracts and they, it would not be a problem for them. But out of principle also, didn't we get the information that the American riders actually have their. To pay their way, their own way, out of their own pocket to the Worlds?

[Spencer Martin]

I believe everyone I've talked to is paying their own way. There seems to be like a grant. If you're like a U23 rider, you can apply for a grant. And so like a few riders have done that, but I know there's like a junior woman that's doing a GoFundMe to pay her way. Like, we know junior athletes that are paying their own way and then, yeah, like a lot of the men's writers pay their own way to the World Championship.

[Johan Berniel]

What's going on, what's going on with USA Cycling, with the federation? I mean, the, that's not normal. I mean, it's, it's, it's still a big federation. I think they're properly funded, I guess.

[Spencer Martin]

Why?

[Johan Berniel]

I don't.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I mean, people, people have asked that question because they say their goal is to win medals at Worlds. So you'd think if that was your goal, you wouldn't, you would incentivize these writers to go.

[Johan Berniel]

How many? So, so this is, I mean, you like to do research, Spencer, for the next show. Maybe you can, you can look it up because we're still going to be talking about Worlds. Try to figure out or find out how many staff people, how many.

[Spencer Martin]

That's a good one.

[Johan Berniel]

Officials who go to the Worlds and will sleep in a nice hotel and we fly business class over to Rwanda. I would like to, I would like to know that.

[Spencer Martin]

I would bet it's, it's quite a few.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, I'm not talking about stuff. I'm not talking about mechanics and massages. I'm talking about officials who. Doesn't really matter if they're there or not, you know? Yeah. Well, anyway, here you go. That's, that's sports federations for you people that.

[Spencer Martin]

The people that work there may make nice salaries. And then I think it's, it's, it's like, it's indefensible. That they're not paying for the riders to go.

[Johan Berniel]

I don't understand that isn't. If it's. There's. There. There are federations where you. Where you actually could expect it from. You know, like there are certain regions in and in. In South America, for example, the Mexican federation. I mean, I don't think the Mexican confederation even exists for the moment. Or at least they're not. They're not allowed to operate under the UCI because there was problems with money. I mean, I know that the Mexican writers pay their own way, but that's kind of, I would say, to be expected, but. But not from USA Cycling, man. What's going on there?

[Spencer Martin]

It's embarrassing. I mean, yeah, let's try to find.

[Johan Berniel]

Out for our next episode.

[Spencer Martin]

But yeah, we will. Because they might actually have to publish that somewhere because they are partially publicly funded, I believe. But yeah, we're going to look into this.

[Johan Berniel]

We do now know now for sure that, you know, the majority of the writers and not just the professionals, even in other categories have to pay their own way. I mean, we know people do that go there who are not paying their own way and they're paying their own way. So I don't think that's, that's, that's not to be done.

[Spencer Martin]

It's. It's pseudo embarrassing, I guess. An American and then you're like, we can't even get these people to. I know with the. All going all the way back to Qatar. You remember what was that 2016 World Championships where that they were just. They like sent a note out and it was like, whoever is willing to fly themselves to the race can race. Where was that? In the Qatar World Championships, which Peter Sagan.

[Johan Berniel]

1A Qatar. Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Okay. I thought you said a Qatar.

[Spencer Martin]

I think that's how they pronounce it. I think Qatar. Qatari's Qatar. I want to appeal this to Atari's. Please email in. How do you say your country's name? But I. They like, yeah, like sent out a note and it's like, if you want to pay your own way, you can go race for the US So they've been skimping for a long time on this. I. I would think that Brandon McNulty would be a great writer to go to the World Championships and potentially medal also. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we should talk to. We should get Quinn Simmons on the show next week. Let him unload on usa.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, let's ask him if he has to pay his own way.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, we will tell us.

[Johan Berniel]

I'M gonna say the. I'm gonna say the answer is probably yes.

[Spencer Martin]

I would, I would think so if.

[Johan Berniel]

They'Re not paying even like Mateo Jorgensen's not as he go. He's not going.

[Spencer Martin]

He's not going. No.

[Johan Berniel]

And then there's, there's obviously also another debate we could, I mean we should probably not extend too much about, about this. But there's also probably people who refuse to go because it's in Rwanda and there's obviously big problems going on there with, you know, the, the president of Rwanda and conflicts and you know, so there's people who have refused to go because of that also.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, you like a real journalist though. You've been talking to people on the ground who know a thing or two and they say the actually where the race is is probably quite safe.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've spoken to people and that's true. That's people who have been there, who have lived there and they are not worried about the safety of the race. Which I mean I'm pretty sure, I mean listen, if today for example, I mean first of all Rwanda is, there's, there's what's his name, Kagame. He's considered a dictator. You know, I'm pretty sure he has enough power. He has all the power in the world because I just recently read he got reelected with 99% of the votes. So I think he has, I think he has his stuff. In order to make sure that nothing's going to happen there did this podcast.

[Spencer Martin]

Is just slowly becoming like today in politics. We are veering way too far. But how did they get this? Do they pay market rate for it, you think?

[Johan Berniel]

Well, I think that, I mean, I don't think so. I know I've spoken to some people is that it's part of the bigger picture. When Laportien was starting to have ideas to get to be a candidate for the IOC presidency, he knew that the African votes were going to be important and that's part of what he has promised in exchange for votes from Africa. Is a big cycling event in Rwanda. But finally seems to be that didn't work because he only got four votes out of 60 something votes in the elections of the IOC president. Well that's the reason. I mean it was for exchange of votes. And it's always if you're the running president, it's always good to keep certain continents happy like Africa, Oceania, the Caribbean, Asia. Because ultimately, I mean if you, if you like it or not, these are continents that are not cycling specific. And most of the time, the people in charge of the federations and, you know, the, the. The continental federations are people who are pure politicians and sports administrative administrators, not specifically people who know about cycling. In Europe, there's more difficult. I mean. Yeah, in Europe, you won't get away with the lobbying and, you know, the, the trying to buy votes or, or, you know, go, go and go around and try to get the votes. You're going to be judged on what you do and what you don't do, especially what you haven't done. So I think the African World Championships is part of this policy of trying to get votes for whatever you need votes for.

[Spencer Martin]

Probably didn't help him that he was running. He got. The IOC president that was elected is from Africa, so that probably didn't help. If you're trying to.

[Johan Berniel]

You know, that's another. That's a whole other story. But that's also. I mean, it's not really. It didn't really get elected, Spencer. It was all, you know, it's. It's the same thing, you know, I mean, if you get elected, I think, I mean, we're getting off track here, but, you know, I mean, in a democracy, you get elected by the people. Right. But everybody has a vote, you know, in sports federations. And, you know, if you look at the cycling federation, for example, I know that particular voting system. And then the IOC works the same in almost all sporting federations. It's not the members who vote, it's representatives of the members. And it's done in such a way that if you are actually in power, it's extremely difficult to lose an election against somebody who comes from outside, because you have direct connection and direct power and direct relationship and the direct resources to get that goodwill. And somebody who comes from outside is not gonna win. And in the case of the ioc, this lady from Zimbabwe. What's her name? Kristin Coventry, I think so.

[Spencer Martin]

Kristen Coventry, Olympic champion swimmer, I believe. Right.

[Johan Berniel]

But she was the preferred candidate of the exiting president Bach, who had vouched for her. And I don't think he just vouched for her. He did the necessary to make sure that she was going to be the president. It was not even a contest. It was not even close. She got like 70% of the votes, and then all the other candidates had, like, a little tiny bit of votes. I mean, even a guy, even somebody like Sebastian Koh, who's a legend, you know, he's a multiple Olympic champion and, you know, has been the president of the athletics federation for years, he had Peanuts. He had almost no votes. It would have been probably a very capable president of the IOC because you know, he's been in office for a long time in, in that role in the, in the athletics federation and he's been an athlete, a top athlete and has seen all the different aspects of the sport which, and okay, in this case, this lady has also been an athlete, elite athlete. But yeah, anyways, I'm, I'm going too.

[Spencer Martin]

Far now and maybe she's going to be a great president. But yeah, I agree that Sebastian Co. Legend, absolute legend. Do you want crazy fact about Sebastian Co. So he ran in the 80s, you know, can you imagine like the shoes and the, in the clothes they're running, the track surfaces they're running on. His 800 meter time is 1 minute 41 seconds. The current world record is 1 minute 40 seconds, 0.9.

[Johan Berniel]

Wow.

[Spencer Martin]

So like that, like Sebastian go running in modern technology would be breaking that world record. That is crazy.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. And there's a few of those. There's a few of those. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. So the, the athletics World championships is going on right now. That's what we're going to pivot to for the rest of the show.

[Johan Berniel]

But I'm watching that too, by the way.

[Spencer Martin]

It's odd. It's kind of a hard time in the US but actually I don't know if you saw this like 400 meter hurdler just ran the open and then almost broke an unbreakable world record. Pretty wild.

[Johan Berniel]

Wow. And then there was another American. Was it, was it, was it 400 meter hurdles or 200? Me, I don't remember. He, he won and then he got disqualified for hitting the last hurdle. And then two minutes later he got reinstated. Yeah, it was, it was weird. It was so funny. He was, you know, they give them a crown. So he was sitting there and he had a gold crown on like straight after the finish and then he had to take his crown off and then five minutes later they gave it back.

[Spencer Martin]

Whoa. Crazy. So that must have been Rye. Benjamin.

[Johan Berniel]

Yes.

[Spencer Martin]

I haven't seen this race yet.

[Johan Berniel]

Benjamin. Yeah. Benjamin. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

He's like in this duel with the Karsten. The Norwegian guy.

[Johan Berniel]

No, the Norwegian guy was not even close. It was, it was a Brazilian guy who was second.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. Interesting. Well, so there's the one race we didn't talk about or one bigger race. The Campenschkaap Van Vladeren. Von Vladeren. Huge race.

[Johan Berniel]

Huge race. I mean the sprint world championship.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, this is funny. It's like so cycling such an odd Sport because we just had the Vuelta Espana. You think that would be a big deal? Not really. For sprinters. Right. Like almost no sprinters there other than the Asper Phillipson, but the Koppen Schwap von Vladerin, they're all there. Jonathan Milan, Dylan Gronovich championships in Coles camp.

[Johan Berniel]

It's really very near to my hometown.

[Spencer Martin]

Tim earlier, like we got to see like one of the best sprint battles of the year today.

[Johan Berniel]

And Jonathan Grune, vegan and medley, you know. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

One, two, three.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So Milan like keep an eye on him for. I mean that it's kind of been trending toward him being the best sprinter in the world. The only obstacle there is. Jasper Phillipson does seem to be unbeatable in Grand Tour sprints, but that's a major result.

[Johan Berniel]

Proctimal hasn't done too bad neither.

[Spencer Martin]

Not, not done too bad. He doesn't seem to have a hard.

[Johan Berniel]

Tours that he participated in. I'm going to say he didn't do that.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, he has a hard time getting selected for Grand Tours for reasons unknown to me.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, I mean, you know, he was on Sudal, he's on Sudal, Remco was there. This year was the first year that Remco kind of agreed that Timberlier would go too which you know, turned out to be great because he, he won two stages.

[Spencer Martin]

Two stages. Only thing about Tim earlier has trouble winning after the first week. Yeah, his wins tend to come in the first week. So we'll keep an eye on that going in the next year. And then just one more other thing to touch on, some recent transfers. Just a few things that stood out to me. This is a real funny one that I don't think I've talked to you about. So Visa, Melissa bike. Very good team, very good at picking up riders. And then they become critical. Like think of Victor Campenaerts, you know, he was obviously good. They bring him in. He's now a critical piece of that team and he works. I would not have considered him obviously to be that. They pick up Filippo Forinelli from VF Group. He is 30 years old. It's not like a young up and coming rider. Like what is the. What do they see here that the rest of us do not?

[Johan Berniel]

I mean they've done a few of those, you know, like I think last year was it last year at the like really last minute they, they signed Julian Vermota which was. Who was without contract and used him like for the first hundred, 120, 150k. I don't know this writer. Whether you just talk about they signed another writer coming from a trade team from Germany, I think. But they also signed Biganzoli, I think.

[Spencer Martin]

Who comes from Davide Picanzoli.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, that's a reason. Writer, really good writer.

[Spencer Martin]

He's on Team Pulte Visit Malta, which you'll remember if you watch the this year. Very good writer. That's like. Well, if you remember VF Group Bardiani, CSF fzan, that's where Julio Pizzari came in.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So these are like these teams you like. What are these teams like? Are they any good? Like they have. A lot of.

[Johan Berniel]

This team is around, has been around forever. Forever. It's always been. I mean, I, I, I, I know when I was a young professional there was the dad who's called Bruno Reverberi, who was always the. So it's always the same organization and it's still, I think it's his son who's still the manager. Now is the manager called Reverberi of this team, vf. I think it's Riverberry.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep, it is, yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

So, yeah, it's a team that has been around for a very long time, I would say, I would say probably, yeah. Close to 30 years.

[Spencer Martin]

They definitely have the visma sees something here, you know, like even think of like Bruno Amarille. He's had a great year.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's like they scooped him up from decathlon and like I would bet he becomes pretty important for that team. This one is just for me and Patrick, bro. Felipe was on. It goes to Sudal quick step. I think he's 26 years old, older than I thought on Jaco had a. He thought he was going to ineos. He thought he was going to get paid a million euros a year, maybe pounds a year. And Dave Brailsford came in and said, no, thank you, we are not going to do that. He then had to find a new contract. Go is going to sit all quickstep. I kind of like this pickup for the Sudal quickstep, though. They're losing Remco, they're going back towards more classics. But like Zana is a real. He can, he's very good and he can be used in a lot of different ways.

[Johan Berniel]

He's a good writer for sure. I think for him to go from. Because he was a Jayco, right. So I think initially. So he announced in Jayco that he was leaving and then when the deal with Aeneas didn't happen, he tried to go back to Jaco to say no, thank you very much. And now it's too dull. I mean it's not necessarily a downgrade. It's. It's kind of an upgrade.

[Spencer Martin]

It is kind of an upgrade. It's. It's unclear to me why Jayco didn't want to keep him. I mean maybe he wanted to come back at a higher price and they don't want to pay him at that higher price. And then last thing on transfers, Alpecin, we mentioned this during the vault that they are losing like a tranche of very good riders. A lot of riders out of contract funding. A little unclear, but a lot of their riders that are leaving, like Johnny Vermeesh, Quentin Hermans, Edward Plankard, all on the other side of 30. And like, especially in the case of like Vermeesh and Herman's, like Vermeesh has had success. Herman's second at Liege. Best on Liege. Probably pretty expensive writers for Blanca also.

[Johan Berniel]

You know, very, very important in the lead out train for. Yeah, for Philipson. And then there's Timokili also who goes to Visma, I think really good rider by the way. Very good writer, comes from Cyclocross also. But, but yeah, I mean, okay, you know they do lose, they do lose some important like midfield writers who've been there for quite a bit. And you know, it's just, it's also, I mean it's public that for the moment, at least as far as I know, the Koenink is ending their sponsorship. They're looking for replacement sponsor. They don't have, they haven't found one yet or at least looks like they haven't secured one yet. And that's probably why they are budget wise a bit more limited. And then if these guys, 30 plus, you know, like Johnny Vermeers and Quinten Hermans get really good contracts with other teams. Johnny Vermeers goes to Red Bull, Quinton Herman goes to Q 36.5. They obviously get a huge improvement on their contract. Whereas I think with Alpecin they probably have kept them at the same contract. They would have renewed their contracts at the same conditions, but not with a huge increase. So they lose in the market. Right, but listen, they have invested a lot in Matthieu van der Poel, a lot in Philipson, a lot in Kaden Groves. They have Thibault and Rosso who's an amazing talent, who they have for multiple years also. I'm not too worried about, I'm not too worried about that team. They will find guys that fill in that gap there's they're. They're in that team, Spencer. They're really good at having riders on that team. And they, they go up one or two levels. Where then you say, well, what. Where does this guy come from? And he's. He's actually pretty good. Some riders that you have hardly heard of. So I'm not too worried about them. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it helps.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. What you say is true. They have writers go up a level. They probably over exceed their like, talent and then they get expensive because of that and then they move on. And then the, the burden on Alpecin is then to replace them.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

With new riders who then will over exceed their talent.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

It's kind of an exhausting treadmill. But they are blessed that they're.

[Johan Berniel]

It also means that they're doing a good job. I mean. Yeah. That they're running their team very well. And. Yeah. I mean, if, if you look, for example, Johnny Vermeers has improved over the years. He's in his 30s now. No. Or maybe 30, 31.

[Spencer Martin]

I think he's 30 years old.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

32.

[Johan Berniel]

Johnny Blancard, he's been around for a while.

[Spencer Martin]

He's in his 30s. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay. And then. Yeah. Quinton Herman is also not super, super young anymore.

[Spencer Martin]

He's in his 30s as well.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay. So it's. I think it's logical that you don't make that special effort to, to improve those unless they were really irreplaceable. And these guys are replaceable.

[Spencer Martin]

When you get.

[Johan Berniel]

There's only one rider on opposing that's not replaceable. That's Matthew van der Poel.

[Spencer Martin]

I would say Jasper Phillipson's pretty well, tough place.

[Johan Berniel]

That's what they thought also when Tim Malir left, you know, and true. I mean, middle ear. I mean, I mean he's better now than when he was at opposing. But it's not that opposing got worse when Maria left.

[Spencer Martin]

No, I. But I think that he's very smart retroactively on the team. A smart decision because Tim Merlier is not going to get second at par twice. No, like that is. Phillipson's very good. Like he is the preeminent stage, like stage winner in the modern era. And he's also a classics writer.

[Johan Berniel]

One a monument, let's not forget that. And two times second in par.

[Spencer Martin]

It's crazy. So. And then what happens is these guys get expensive. These guys in their 30s, they have to let them go. And then they recruit from the fertile grounds from which everyone else springs forward. Belgium. And they've replaced them. With like new soldiers that can follow the orders just like the old soldiers. Could I. It is what big benefit of being in Belgium because you're just. You're sitting in a field of talent and you can just like pluck all these riders, mainly from cyclocross, which they're very good at.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. They have multiple cyclocross teams, though. They have Alpecin and they have. Then they have smaller teams which are all affiliated. I think I would have to check. I think there's like six or seven teams that fall under the same umbrella, all under the same organization of the Rotor brothers.

[Spencer Martin]

It's a good idea. I mean, that's a great place to.

[Johan Berniel]

It's a good idea. But I don't. I don't. I have no idea how they manage that. I mean, it must be exhaust. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

In like shoestring budget situation.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. And then those teams actually, if you look at the cyclocross teams, they're actually on different equipment. They're not all on canyon. They're on, you know, some of them are on different bikes and different, you know, different components and it must be. Yeah, that's quite the organization they're running.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, let's take a quick ad break and then we'll talk about promotion, relegation and the time trial. Really quick. Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

[ZipRecruiter Advertiser]

Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.

[Spencer Martin]

That's not the itinerary we're following.

[ZipRecruiter Advertiser]

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

[Johan Berniel]

Bon voyage.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg. Apple iPhone 16 128GB8 2,999 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact T Mobile.

[Spencer Martin]

The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive Insurance. Save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Okay, Johan, we're back. The. Before we get into the time trial, World Championships promotion, relegation. Just a quick update after today. Unox, I mean Unox very good at picking up these small like these points and these smaller races. Like Tour of Luxembourg. No, not Tour of Luxembourg, the sprint race that we were talking about. They get 5th and 10th and then that is good for 70 points. Yeah, 70 points. 20 plus 50. And now they're within 16 points of Cofitis. Basically them and Kofetus are equal. They will sprint to the end of the season and whoever has the most points is World Tour.

[Johan Berniel]

Maybe.

[Spencer Martin]

And whoever isn't is relegated.

[Johan Berniel]

Prop.

[Spencer Martin]

Definitely. Absolutely. Like if Covid is finished is too far down, they will be relegated. The only question is, and you brought this up in the pre show, it's actually not clear what happens to this 18th World Tour team spot because Inter Marche is going away. They're getting subsumed into Lotto. So those are two World Tour teams there. It's possible that there could be 17 world tour teams, not 18. Which would mean neither Unox or Cofitus are World Tour at the end of the year.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, well that's. Yeah. I've spoken to some people also, some from teams and the teams actually don't know it either. Right. Right now it's, you know, there's 18 world tour teams. One one world tour team, Inter Marche. The license is not renewed. You know, the team disappears. So apparently the UCI is not obligated to give that free spot to another team. Like team number 19 doesn't automatically become in get in the 18 best teams. So it's either 17 teams and four wild cards, I guess because the. Right now it's 18 teams the World Tour and the three first teams of the pro team ranking get automatic invites to all the World Tour races. If it's 17, then it becomes four teams, which I mean doesn't really matter. Right. Because yeah, it's the same. I would probably. If I'm in, I'm. If I'm there and like struggling to say am I World Tour? Am I not World Tour? And I'm confident and good enough. I prefer to be in the pro team lead two or three because you have automatic right to participate, but you don't have the obligation to participate in all the races which over the year there are World Tour races that are on the calendar and that not necessarily the teams want to go to those races.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep.

[Johan Berniel]

Or some teams don't want to Go. And so if you're in this, in the case of two door or Q 36.5 and you know, X, if they don't get promoted, if there's a race you don't want to go to, you don't have to, you don't have to do the three ground tours, for example, which is what Lotto did. Lotto just did the Tour in the Vuelta. They didn't go to the Giro two years in a row. By the way.

[Spencer Martin]

It's expensive too.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, obviously. Also if you don't have the necessary riders, I mean, to cover the three ground tours and all the other World Tour races, it's exhausting. And there's always going to be a few races where you simply cannot field a competitive team in all the races. Unless you're uae. Yeah, but even, even, even teams like Visma or you know, even Red Bull or even Little Track, some races you go to because you have to go, but they would rather not go because they don't have a competitive team they can send.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. And so I, I would guess that they will do 18 world tour teams just because it's more expensive to register.

[Johan Berniel]

As a World Tour. I'm not sure, you know, I mean, going back, Spencer, going back to, you know, long time ago and now especially, you know, with the UCI having a French president who is very, very, I would say, facilitating the wishes of ASO friend, the front Tour de France. I know that the Tour de France would rather have 16 World Tour teams than 18 because that gives them more room to invite teams. It would still be the same teams probably, but it's in their hands, in their decision. Right. So I'm sure that ASO will push to for 17 teams and not 18. I'm 100% sure. But whether that's going to happen or not, that's still to be seen.

[Spencer Martin]

And we should say if they go down, if it goes down to 17, there's not an extra wild card. It's just the fourth world. The fourth second division team gets automatically invited, which is. Starts to cave in on itself because that would be Cofitus and Cofitus would probably be a wild card team. So it's a little bit potato potato currently like. Yeah, yeah, that spot would just get shifted anyway from pro team to wild card team on. But I will keep people updated. I'm quite, it's quite interesting to watch this, to watch these, these teams fighting for these spots and it changes the racing more than you'd think. You see teams like just racing.

[Johan Berniel]

If you have to bet today, Unox or Kofi, this being the, the team that if there's 18 teams, the one that makes the step, who is your money on?

[Spencer Martin]

I would absolutely bet on Unox for a simple reason. Because so far this, if we're, if we're talking about from equal footing, they're starting, it's Unox. Because so far this year Unox has scored almost twice as many World Tour points as Kofitis. So the, the velocity of them scoring points is so much higher than Kofed is.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. And then, and then I, I, I think you saw a few weeks ago also, or maybe a month ago that Thor Huf requested his riders to not go to the World Championships to save energy and, and freshness for the end of the season to score points in. Because at the World Championships was obviously not easy to score points.

[Spencer Martin]

No, no. And that's interesting. I mean they do have like gc, they have guys that could score well in late season stage races.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Like Johanneson for example. Not going to the Worlds. That's for a reason.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

He's gonna focus on one, on a stage race or something, you know, Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Of Gwangji winner right there.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Maybe these, I mean it's, I think it's, do you, who do you think? I think it's gonna be, you know.

[Johan Berniel]

You know, X, you know. Yeah. And they deserve it. You know, I think they deserve it. I think they deserve it right now. They, they've been, I mean, how long does Cofitis exist?

[Spencer Martin]

A long time.

[Johan Berniel]

More than 30 years? More than 30 years.

[Spencer Martin]

For sure.

[Johan Berniel]

More than 30 years. Because in 96 Lance had signed a contract with Kofidis for 97 and they were already around a couple of years, so. Yeah, yeah. No, listen, they, for the moment, the way Kofi this has performed, they don't deserve to be in the World Tour. I don't think so.

[Spencer Martin]

No. That, that's a weird alternate history to think about. Lance Armstrong is on Kofedis winning the Tour de France. Or would he not have, would Kofetus have stopped him from winning the Tour? Kind of a funny thing to think about, but Johan, the World Championships. We'll talk about the road race tomorrow. The time trial is on Sunday. The men's time trial. It is, it is sneaking up on us. I saw a picture of Rem Kwevena Pole on the course. Looking at it, he looks incredibly fit. I have to imagine it's very stressful for the riders on the ground to keep training. You're in a completely different environment. But you have to keep training through the next week and a half. That can't be easy. But it's a tough, it's a tough time trial. It's 40.6km long, which in modern cycling is the longest one they'll do all year. It has 1, 2, 3, 4 climbs. The first one is 2.4k long, 6% average. That's not easy. Second one is longer, about 7k, but it's 3 1/2% average. The third one is 2k long at about 7%. The last one is 1.3k long at 6%. It's cobbled, but then the route kind of keeps going up after that. So it's, it's, it's uphill to the line, but it's not.

[Johan Berniel]

So it's the same finish as the road race, the last two little climbs?

[Spencer Martin]

Yes.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And this is in Kigali, Rwanda, so it's at altitude as well, about, I believe about 1700 meters.

[Johan Berniel]

I think 1500 something. 15.

[Spencer Martin]

So the favorite, you would have to think is Remco Evanopol. Another guy that's pretty good is Tadpagacho. But I also would not sleep on Jay Vine. I mean, we saw that guy absolutely flying. He comes straight here from the, from the Vuelta. What, what do you think about this course and who do you think is going to win?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I think those are the three favorites. You named them? I think, I think the big favorite, I mean, obviously Pogachar, is boar. Right. You can't put anything past him on a hard course, it's more equal rather than on a flat course against Remco. But, but, you know, he comes back from Canada. I think he's still improving. I think he's going to reach his peak or close to his peak for the road race on Sunday. Not this Sunday, the Sunday after. But I think, I think it's, it's. Remco is the big favorite for, for, for a specific reason. You know, he's been able to specially train for this. He's been, you know, obviously we saw he abandoned the Tour, then he took some time off. He's, you know, he's trained. He did one race, Tour of Great Britain. Which did he finish second in Tour? I think he finished second.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Second overall.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. You know, won one stage and has trained, in my opinion, is the guy who trained the most for time trial specifically. There's no, nobody else who did the same kind of training. As I said, Pugach, best rider in the world. He can, he can win. And Jay Vine. Jay Vine If Jay vine has a super day, he's probably the biggest, the biggest wild card. You know, if you look at losing the time trial with one second to be to people Ghana on a flat course, but this is more J Vine terrain and with that condition from the Vuelta, he's definitely a big candidate.

[Spencer Martin]

The problem, yeah, Jayvine, he would, he would be scary to me if I was a favorite like Remco Evanopole, I would not want to see him there. The only reason I don't think Remco is a slam dunk is because, you know, we've seen, like, on these flat, fast courses, Remco Evanopol's almost unbeatable. The guy is. He flies when the speed is high, but it's some tough climbing. Like, I, I don't know if he's going to be faster than Jay vine on some of these climbs, and obviously that's going to be a problem if he's trying to go faster than him in the, in the race.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. But I still think, I still think Ram go into the world championship stand, probably.

[Spencer Martin]

I. When I saw how he looked today, I was. I, I did think he was going to win. He looks very fit. He looks incredible. Um, I am, I'm excited. This kind of snuck up on me. I didn't realize it was on Sunday, but I'm quite excited to watch it now to see who wins. Johan, before we go, a kind listener asked me this question in person yesterday on a group ride. Slavic from Boulder. If the teams were reversed, Jonas Fingert is on uae, joelameda is on Visma. Everything else stays the same. Is the result the same at the Vuelta Espana?

[Johan Berniel]

I think so. I think so. You know, as I, as I said in the other. In our last podcast, you know, I mean, we did have doubts and questions and criticism about the tactics of uae. Even Joe Almeida has, after the race said that, you know, their, Their work as a team was not perfect, far from. But what kind of tactic then? My question is, what kind of tactic would have changed the outcome of a specific stage? You know, like, the biggest climb was Angiru. Like, Almeida and Vingegaard came in together. Almeida maybe a tiny bit stronger, but not strong enough to drop him. Then my question is, what kind of teamwork could have been done that would have changed this situation? Because as soon as it was hard, it's the two strongest guys, man against man. Like, what is it, five, six kilometers together.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. The only thing I could really pinpoint is stage nine. Visma takes Jonas into the climb. Eunice he's second wheel, and then his team is, like, stacked up behind him.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So Almeida and Pickax are so far from his wheel that when he attacks, you know, it's like steep at the beginning, then not steep. That they were basically. It's like a screen in basketball. Like, they could screen the other riders off his wheel. And that if Jonas is not on Visma, if he's on UAE and he's stuck further back and Joel Almeida's up at the front with the team keeping the pace so high that Vinegard can't attack, that would be the only thing that is different. I feel like, you know, I mean.

[Johan Berniel]

That'S 30 seconds, Spencer. You know, that's 30 seconds. There's still. He wins with more than a minute, right?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, 116. So.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. So that's 30 seconds. And then on top of that, Spencer, if you reverse the situation, if. If Visma does this for Almeida, you have to ask yourself two questions. First of all, would Almeida have been in a position to follow his teammates because he's not great at the bottom of climbs? It's a very good question, number one. And then number two, you. You can. This can account for, like, five or 10 seconds, this positioning and that first. But let's not forget that Vingegaard had to maintain that. That position, that, that, that. That difference and stay out there for. What Was it, like, 7K or something? Was far.

[Spencer Martin]

It was.

[Johan Berniel]

It was quite far when he went.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, he did have. I mean, I. I think you're right. I think the results are the same. I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking. Jonas, he was on the bumper of a. Of a moto for a long time, though, so it was a big advantage to be out front on that stage.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, well, no, but the answer is I don't think it would have changed the overall result because in the. In, you know, in the main stages, where the differences were made, it was man against man. And Angelou, there was. There were. He was not able to shake him. Whether he was on Visma or on uae, I don't think it would have mattered. And then on. On the last day, UAE was the best team, and Jonas took time.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. And it helped Jonas that they were better, you know, like, hurt Almeida helped Jonas. The only thing I like my addition to this question would be, is being on Visma, because I think Jonas would have found a way like nature finds a way in Jurassic Park. Like, he'll find a way to win. He's just a winner. But is being on Visma shaped his mentality in a different way than if. If Joao made his on Visma, is his mentality completely different? And if Jonas is on uae, is he mentally different because he's playing second banana to Teddy?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, that's another question. I can't. I mean, I can't. I'm not in the head of these guys, you know, and I don't know them, you know, personally at all on how they are. I mean, to me it seems like Jonas is. Is, you know, feels really good at Visma. You know, his wife would sometimes say differently, but I think Jonas feels great there in that atmospher. He executes the plan and Almeida feels great at uae, but seems to be very, very relaxed. Very like, you know, okay, you know, we'll try my best. I've done what I can. So be it. Right. So maybe, maybe Almeida wouldn't function in the. In the stricter pattern of Visma. I don't know. That mean that's probably correct.

[Spencer Martin]

If. Yeah, that is probably correct because he is very laid back. Like, shockingly laid back.

[Johan Berniel]

At least that's how he comes across in the interviews. He's most likely one of the biggest professionals in cycling. You know, it's a guy who trains, does the job, super serious, super focused. But he comes across as really, you know, like, okay, we'll see what happens.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And I guess the good thing about that is he's not beating himself up about stuff he can't change. Jonas is stronger. Like, what do you want me to do here? Yeah, I'm like, that's kind of a healthy perspective to have. I think you're right. Probably the results are the same. Kind of an interesting thing to think about, though. Anything else, Johan, before we take off?

[Johan Berniel]

I think we've covered a lot, Spencer, and a lot more to come. A lot more to come in the next weeks.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, we'll be back next week to preview the World Championships road race and then we'll be back every week after that. Send your questions to Infoado team. Thanks, Johan.

[Johan Berniel]

And we'll be back for the World Championships too.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, the potential all star lineup on.

[Johan Berniel]

The move for that. We'll see. We'll do our best.

[Spencer Martin]

Warning. The following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words.

[ZipRecruiter Advertiser]

When you're hiring, we at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn, even, like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip with ZipRecruiter you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

[Spencer Martin]

Fantastic.

[ZipRecruiter Advertiser]

So whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com Zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget that ZipRecruiter.com Zip finally, that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip Marketing is hard, but I'll.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.