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- [01:03]
C
That's J E R R Y AI Libsyn. With all due respect for Giulio Pellizari, who's a great talent, great rider, but let's not forget that Jonas Wingergaard can basically win any stage race where Pogacar is not, when he's not 100%. So I think that's the difference. He has just a bigger engine than Pilizzari for the moment. Pilizzi is a great talent, but, you know, everything needs to be top for him to win, which he did in Tour of the Alps, but it costs a lot of energy, man. And then I think also, you know, all the hype around him, you know the Italian, hope it's not easy to deal with that as a young rider. There's a lot of expectations, a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Foreign.
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B
Welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel and we are breaking down stage nine of the Gird Italia as well as doing our rest day week one review and then also previewing week two. We'll first do the breakdown of the stage and then if you want content for the rest day, make sure you pause the show. Come back on tomorrow's rest day. But Johan, I'll just recap the stage really quickly and then we'll talk about it. Jonas Vinard, as you predicted, won the stage summit finish at Corno ala Scala. I believe they'd only done this one time before, is that I. I think like Damiano Caruso maybe was in the front group. It was like 20 years ago the last time they did it. Felix Gall was second, 12 seconds back. Davide Pigenzoli from Team Visma, Lisa bike third at 34 seconds back, edging out time and R has been for a four second time bonus. Super impressive. Johan's going to tell us. He's got inside info about why they're doing this with their support riders. The day what started faster, you know, it was one of these stages where flat, ish, flat to rolling for the first hundred kilometers and then they hit two climbs that were kind of merged together as one final climb. The toughest gradients were in the last 4km, which is where the action was. But there was a hard fight for the breakaway. A move, I mean, if you have. If you really want to fill time on the rest day, go back and watch the opening hour of the stage because it was quite interesting watching the breakaway being formed. A soft move gets clear. Decathlon is really anxious about strong riders going away that can contest the stage. Clearly they wanted to try to get Gall a stage win and I guess make a statement on this race. You can see riders, you know, the GC teams and sprint teams are blocking the road because Milan's trying to get up the road. Monier was marking him. A lot of interesting stuff happens, but they eventually block the road. The breakup gets a gap of around two minutes. And then when they get to a little like a small climb, uncategorized climb. Julio Ciccone rips clear bridges up to the move with two other riders. One of them two nards who's just sitting on his wheel. Pretty, pretty funny to watch, but he did better than you would think because he didn't work. It was a smart move. And then as they get closer to the final climb, Visma comes to the front, pushes Decathlon off. Visma and Decathlon are kind of fighting for possession at the front. Sepkus gets to the front with about 3 1/2 k to go. Julio Pelizar is dropped before anyone attacks, as we, as we kind of hinted at yesterday. And then Felis skull attacks with two 2.3Ks to go. Jonas Vard follows him. There's. There's no daylight between those guys pretty much at any point all day until Vinegar attacks. Timon Arsman was the strongest in the Peloton behind G. They catch Chone.
- [04:39]
C
They.
- [04:39]
B
They pass him. They drop him. I believe Inar Rubio was in there somewhere. He got passed and dropped as well. And then Jonas waits until 900 meters to go. Attacks out of the saddle. For once, he's putting out major power. Velon has a power layover on it. He was doing 700, 600 watts during the attack standing up, so we know he's really trying. And then he pries the gap open and stuck around 4 or 5 seconds. He gets it up to 12 seconds by the finish line, wins G second. Gall puts time. He loses a stage, loses time to Vinegard. I don't know if that's necessarily devastating for him and decathlo because he puts time into everybody else with the time trial on Tuesday. And then Timon Ar has been coming in for third place. No, he's not, because he's chased down by Davide Piganzoli from Visma. I didn't see that one coming. And they both finished 34 seconds down. And then super impressively, Johan, the race leader, Alfonso Ulario, who had been dropped when Gall made the move, he was kind of back with Egon Bernal. He finishes just six or seven seconds behind Ahrensman and Piganzoli. He's 41 seconds down on the stage. So he's not. He's losing time to Vinegar Gaul and Arnsman. He's not losing time to anybody else. In fact, he's out climbing them. So he goes into the rest day. Second rest day really should be the first rest day. 2:24 up on Vinegard. 259 up on Felix Gall. 4:32 up on Jai Hindley, who's now the Red Bull leader after Julio Pelizari had a bad day. Christian scaroni from Astana. 4:43 time and ironsman net company NEOS at five minutes. Pelizar is down in ninth, 5:15 back. But Johan, what was your takeaway from the day?
- [06:16]
C
Yeah, well, Spencer, you summed it up pretty in detail, but I, I would, I would say when I, when I started to watch the race, we had decathlon really driving the peloton. There was a breakaway initially. Chicone and Ulisi and Tonar are not there yet, but already there, you know, decathlon showed that they had ambition. You know, initially you would say, well, why are you doing this? Right, because they had assistance of Bahrain, but Visma was just sitting and chilling in the peloton on, you know, on their red carpet. Basically. They had, they didn't have to do anything. And we heard, heard also afterwards from some of the teammates that their goal today was not to go for the stage win. They didn't want to spend the team unnecessary. They didn't have to. But you know, logically you would say, why is Decathlon doing this? They're doing the job for Visma. Right. I thought that also first. But you know, there's one thing that we have to keep in mind, Spencer. You know, the writers in the bunch, they see things, they hear things, they know things and feel things that we don't know. And I'm personally pretty sure that they had information, they have training partners who are on other teams, and I think they had information about Pilizzari before the stage that he's in decline. Obviously you see that two times he couldn't hold the wheel of Jay Hindley. That's a little indication. But also riders within the peloton, riders on different teams, they talk. Right? So I'm pretty sure that was the main reason, not so much for the stage win, because they know that Decathlon knows that if they drive it, they're going to get the break back. But Jonas is still going to beat Felix Gaul unless something unexpected is happening. So in my opinion, that was the real reason why they were pulling, driving it, making it hard. And you could see on two times on the climb. First of all, on that first climb, Piliziari was already in the back. That didn't look good. But, you know, you, you could say maybe he's just, you know, trying to preserve energy and not fighting for position. But on that last climb, he, he got to the back of the, of the main, the main group pretty, pretty early. And personally, I think, you know, considering how bad he looked, he comes away okay, you know, as he loses, what, one minute 40?
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B
I went at 40. But yeah, it's like the third straight climbing stage where he's not looked amazing.
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C
Yeah, yeah. Listen, I mean, if you look, Spencer, I mean, I, I, I look back a little bit. Julie Perizza, you know, he, there was a lot of hype about him right before, before the, the Giro. But if you look at his second, if you look at his season right now, so he started early February in Vuelta Valenciana, full gas at the service of Remco, but also third in gc. He was the second best rider in the, in the race, I think. Then he, he went to, he, he did classic Achran and Strade Bianche, full gas from there straight away to Tyreno, full gas, was third in the GC
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B
and he was first until like the final stage or something like that.
- [09:50]
C
Milano, Torino. After that, for gas, he got fourth. He did Milan San Remo and then he did Tour of the Alps, full gas. The guy has not decompressed at all. And you know, it's typical for a guy who's been on that high level. He has raced a lot, man. If you, if you look at his days of racing and always, always going for it, you know, he never did a race where he didn't go for it, except maybe Milan San Remo, I would say, potentially. But. But that's, you know, at some point you come into the Giro really hot and, you know, full of energy, very motivated after fresh off that, fresh off that victory in Tour of the Alps. But here's the bill. After one week, 10 days, here's the bill, you know, so I think it's going to keep going in decline for Pelizari. He may have, you know, a revival in a stage or something, but personally, I think for the overall, for the podium, I think it's not going to happen for Belizari in this Giro.
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B
You know who that reminds me of is 2019 Primus Raglic. Remember this? He just had an amazing start to the year. Comes in, engines revved hot and he is fallen. He starts the Giro really well and then he's falling apart, finishes third. I believe he salvaged it by like it was a few seconds to Mika Lando in that final time trial. Also that time trial won by Chad Haga, who is Texan. I was wrong about that.
- [11:24]
C
Yeah, I know. You know, we said there was never a Texan who won a stage. That's true. Somebody messaged me about it.
- [11:29]
B
Sorry, Chad. Yeah, I, I thought, man, I don't know if that sounds right. Yeah, you went to Texas a&m be. So first I'm just going to role play as a stupid person here. Then Jonas vinegaard, he's had 24 race days come into this race. He did three stage races as a GC, two stage races as a GC leader, won both. How's that different from Pelizarry's lead in how many?
- [11:51]
C
How many? So he did what he did. He did Paris and Catalunya Perry.
- [11:56]
B
Nice. And Catalonia. So Pelizari has raised six more days than him this year.
- [12:00]
C
Yeah.
- [12:01]
B
Including four one days.
- [12:03]
C
Yeah. You can't. I mean, the thing is also, I mean, with all due respect for Giulio Belizzari, who is a great talent, great rider, but let's not forget that Jonas Jonas Vingegaard can basically win any stage race where Pogacciar is not, when he's not 100%. So that's, I think that's the difference. He has just a bigger engine than Pizza for the moment. Belize is a great talent, but you know, everything needs to be top for him to, to win, which he did in Tour of the Alps. But it costs a lot of energy, man. And, and then I think also, you know, the, all the hype around him, you know, the Italian hope, it's, it's not easy to deal with that as a young rider. There's a lot of expectations, a lot of pressure on his shoulders and yeah, I mean the first, the first. Well, actually no, the first mountain stage he was not second, so Gal was second. So.
- [13:03]
B
Well, he got blown by, by Gaul. He got passed by his teammate and yeah, what's weird is he actually looked I, when he responded to vinegar on that first mountain stage, I thought this guy looks amazing. And then he gets dropped 2k later and then he's never been the same since. But yeah, yeah, I mean as I said yesterday, I was very excited about him coming into this race. And then the closer we look and the facts you just laid out, it's like, well, this kind of makes sense that, you know, yeah, probably not gonna, the bottom's not gonna fall out, but he's gonna have a battle here to finish in the top five. You would think.
- [13:36]
C
I think so. Yeah, I think so. You know, it's, it's all, I mean, a big a three week stage rates. It's about, you know, the, the, the inertia, you know, the, the, the energy you have. You either go up, you stay the same or you go down. And I think Tulip Elizari unfortunately is, is going down bit by bit, physically and mentally, you know, it's, and because it's also. It must be hard to deal with for him also mentally, you know, he came in super motivated with the belief that he was definitely going to be on the podium and now it looks like he's, it's going to be extremely difficult for him to be on the podium and also he sees other riders who are coming up where he is declining a bit when even for Red
- [14:17]
B
Bull Bora Hansgrohe during the stage, the commentator, commentators were saying it's the only team with two contenders left. This the team they could challenge Jonas after the stage. What was that?
- [14:29]
C
Who are the commentators?
- [14:30]
B
You know, I, I don't want, I don't want to say that the commentators are a Rotation of. It's like Robbie McEwen, Rob Hatch and then a few others. I don't know who said that, so I don't want to. I could maybe even had switched over to flow bikes when that happened. But let's just say things were looking good for Red Bull. And then after the stage, Jai Henley's now your mate. He's in fourth, but he doesn't even really have a clear path to the podium because his time trialing is. He's going to hurt in that time trial. Pillars are his ninth. It's just, it's. It's quite the switch of fortune for that team, which looked like they were coming in strong.
- [15:04]
C
I mean, I think, I think, I think Jai. Jai Hindley because I got, I got a, you know, a correction from an Australian fan. We can't say Jay is Jai Hindley. He.
- [15:19]
B
I love Australia, but they just, they just make up names like Jai.
- [15:23]
C
It's Jai. So natural. But, but yeah, I mean, I think, I think he's definitely. He has the engine. He's proven that he can, he can do a great three week, three weeks. Usually is very consistent. Gets better through, through the race. And you know, I think we have to take into account also he's now number one within Red Bull in the Giro, I would assume. I've been told that also he's in his contract year, so I don't know if he's signed already or not. But anyway, if he hasn't signed, there will definitely be bonuses for good performances until the end of the season. So he's super. It looks like he's not staying at Red Bull and I've said it already, I think it looks like he's going to Visma if that's not done yet. But, you know, there's for sure going to be an incentive if he does. He's on the podium of the Giro. So he's, you know, he has, he has a lot of reasons to fight for, for a great classification.
- [16:26]
B
There's too many. I think there's too many guys in that same role at Red Bull. I think he should probably leave because they just have. They've cloned the same rider like six times. They can't. You can't have six riders going for third place at the 0 or the Tour. It doesn't.
- [16:42]
C
The thing is also Spencer, you know, I mean, these guys like J J Hindley, I mean, he's a leader on. In his own right, you know, but. But then normally he's. He's going to be. He should Be in a, in a, in like the, the super domestique, the last man standing next to the leader. That role. The thing is that at Red Bull there is nobody to be that leader. I know guarantees. Right. So I think he would be very valuable to Visma to be in like, in the role to be with, you know, the, the, the what Sepkus has done or what Piganzoli is doing or, you know, he has a lot of experience in Grand Tours. Yeah, I'm, if he, if he goes there, I, I, I like that. I would like that signing.
- [17:29]
B
And do you think. Let's just, let's just say Pelizar is doing great, having a great day. Decathlon still kind of has to do what they do. Right. Because Felix goal needs time on people. He can't just sit around because he's going to lose a ton of time in the time trial, presumably. Right.
- [17:45]
C
Yeah. I mean, the question is how much is he going to use against the real contenders? You know, I think, I think Felix Gal is going to use lose time against Vingegaard and definitely against Arnsman.
- [18:01]
B
Derek G. West.
- [18:03]
C
Yeah, but I don't think we can consider Derek G. West a rival for Felix Gall. I mean, especially Spencer.
- [18:12]
B
What a difference a week makes. I don't know if we should just crown Gaul as like an unbeatable.
- [18:18]
C
No, no. I mean, listen, I mean, what we've seen for now, I mean, Derek, Derek G. Is, is. He's not bad. I mean, he did a great end of the stage. He looked a bit in trouble there early on in the climb, and then he came back pretty good and he's maybe going to improve during Giro, but I just personally think that Felix Gall is in better shape, he's a better climber. And the 42 kilometer time trial, it's going to make differences, but it's not going to be decisive compared to the incredible, monstrous mountain stages we still have ahead.
- [18:54]
B
That's what we always say. But the mountain stage is never, the differences are never that big in the mountains.
- [19:03]
C
There hasn't been a real hard mountain stage yet. There was Blockhouse, which was one climb, and there was today, which was one climb at the end. A real big mountain stage with three, four mountains. There's a few. There's three or four stages of those. That's where Felix Gulls shines.
- [19:25]
B
Yeah, I mean, but just even like, let's go back last year. So, like Heart, one of the hardest stages of the race. Stage 16, 203K, big mountain stage, like 5,000 meters of climbing, you know, Derek G. West, he's 13 seconds behind Richard Carapaz. He's 20 seconds in front of Michael Storr and Simon Yates. You know, I, we don't see these big, you don't see big minute plus gaps in the mountains really anymore.
- [19:50]
C
The question is, Spencer, is Derek G. In the same form as last year? I, I, he's, he's, well, I guess
- [19:57]
B
like setting the Derek G. Aside. Yeah, I don't know if Felix G. Can count on, he can't count on big time gaps in the mountains. Would be my worry that these guys, they, they, they bundle together in the mountains. We don't see the big time gaps like we used to.
- [20:11]
C
But you already got more than a minute on almost everybody. Just on Block House.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah. He's also one bad positioning mistake from losing that time too. You know, I, I don't. Well, so here, why did decathlon do that then? You think it was just for pelizarry? Because that's a lot of work you just did.
- [20:32]
C
I think, I think they're focusing on the podium and they, they just want to, you know, they want to ensure the podium. And I personally, I, I think they had information that Belizari is not feeling great. You know, I mean, I hope, I hope it doesn't happen, you know, but I don't want to jinx it for him, but I would not be surprised if Belizari does not finish this Giro d'. Italia.
- [20:58]
B
But, but so, but then that would indicate they shouldn't have done that. Right.
- [21:02]
C
Because of, I mean, for the moment, you don't know, of course, I mean, he, initially where we were all talking about Jonas and then was Pilizari, Felix. Nobody, almost, almost nobody talked about Felix Galo. You know, for the podium it was, you know, it was, it was Perizzari, Hindley, Bernal who talked about Felix Gal. Not many people.
- [21:23]
B
Well, he's never finished on the podium. He's not particularly consistent, I guess, would be the concern.
- [21:28]
C
Yeah, that's true, that's true. I mean, listen, yesterday we were, we were banging on Felix Gal for being in the back at the end on those steep climbs. And, you know, so what a difference they can make. Right. If you were clear, Spencer, is that we had two really hard climbs and two times. Felix Gal was the best of the rest and was relatively close to Jonas Fingerguard. I think that's, that's my, my conclusion.
- [21:54]
B
If you were decathlon, would you have worked all day for that?
- [22:00]
C
Probably. I mean, I, I think if you, if some, if, if one of your rivals is having a hard time. I mean, probably not the whole day, Spencer, because ultimately, you know, what. What you do on the. And on the early part, it doesn't really hurt that rival who's in trouble if he's sitting in the bunch. But, you know, as soon as.
- [22:20]
B
I mean, it's not really. They were working on the flats, like, that's not really hurting.
- [22:25]
C
Yeah, yeah. No, I would not have done that. Would not have done that.
- [22:29]
B
Do you think they. Were they going for the stage win, you think is they really were focused on the breakaway.
- [22:35]
C
It's not really realistic, you know, I mean, although you never know. I mean, they probably got real big morale out of the last 4km on Blockhouse, where Felix Gall did take time back on Jonas. And, you know, you have to test your rivals first to know. Right. And today he was strong. I mean, I would easily say that he was equally strong as Jonas today. Jonas was. Was strong also, but, you know, he followed. He didn't take a single pull. Not that it's going to matter a lot on a steep climb, but, you know, if you're Jonas Wingergaard and you're the best climber of the race and you're the favorite, you're the one who imposes the rhythm once the selection is made. And he decided to not do that. So I take away from that that Jonas and Visma are riding calculated and conservatively, you know, knowing that bit by bit, they can win this race without going too deep, which we. I've been saying from the start that Jonas can win this Giro. Not being at 100% and trying to be 100% in the month of July.
- [23:45]
B
I mean, my only concern. I know I just was. I was questioning Phyllis Skull, but you get that guy in the third week. Not being 100% could be fatal for. For Vindergaard because the climbs, like, they're only going to get harder. I. I'm trying to get inside decathlon's mind about why they worked on the flat. And I guess if you win today, let's say you do win. I mean, that's a pretty big boost going into the rest day, so maybe it is worth it.
- [24:09]
C
Yeah, but how. How was he gonna win?
- [24:11]
B
He's gonna drop. He's gonna drop Jonas. And they have to believe that, don't they? They have to. Or what are they doing? I don't know.
- [24:18]
C
When you. When you listen to. I. I listened to him in German today after the stage, and he's not taking to account beating Jonas. Then why wants to do his best possible. Yeah, best possible result. And he's great. He's happy with the form. He's excited about the team. I think, you know, they, they had a plan. They kind of executed the plan and okay, didn't win the stage but it kind of worked out. He's solidly in second now, in virtual second because we still have up there. But you know, he's the best of the rest. And then Spencer, let me have talked about it a few times. If you're the best of the rest and something happens to the best, to the, to the real best, then you win. You can't never exclude that.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah. So you think they should not have worked all day to pull the brake.
- [25:08]
C
Not on the flat. Not on the flat.
- [25:10]
B
Yeah, I, No, I guess I could. Well, they do get, they do get arrest date and then they have a time trial so it might not end up mattering that much.
- [25:20]
C
I still do not follow that train of thinking. Spencer, it doesn't matter. It adds up. The efforts add up. Even if you have a rest day and then a time trial where the majority of the team is going to take another semi rest day, you still pay for what you do today. In three or four or five days. It doesn't matter. You don't recover fully.
- [25:43]
B
Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about Jonas. Fine guard's his winning move, his decision to sit on and then we'll get into a few of the things. We'll be right back.
- [25:50]
A
Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you bigger network. The combination of T Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage. Savings versus comparable Verizon plans Plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits, credit stop if you cancel in lines. Qualifying credit required. Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20 versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math AT T Mobile and now T mobile is available in a U.S. cellular store near you. Bigger network the combination of T mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage. Savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes. And fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you canceling lines. Qualifying credit required.
- [26:50]
B
Okay, Johan, we're back. We just talked about everybody except the stage winner. Jonas Finnegaard wins A stage 12 second gap. A 16 second gap on goal when you calculate in the time bonuses. Watching it, I thought Jonas doesn't have it because he's following Gall and then he's waiting inside the final K to attack and he was really working hard to pry that gap open. Then we, we got some stats because the gird Italia is really nice and they share power numbers of everybody. The Twitter account Watson Cycling did a calculation for Jonas normalizing the power at or the power watts per kilo at 60 kgs, which is roughly what he weighs. I did my own calculation and had him at about, for the last 14 minutes, 405 watts at 6.8 watts per kilo, like 1900 VAM almost. So that's. You look at that and you think, well, he's working pretty hard last seven and a half minutes. So the final 2.4k when the attack went velon released. This is real power from him, 420 watts. So that's 7.1 watts per kilo. That's not exactly struggling. You know, those are good numbers. Which shows you Felix Gall is really strong because he's doing that in the draft, you know, in a sizable draft. And they're going 20k an hour. So the draft is not insignificant at that speed. What did you think about.
- [28:09]
C
I also think, Spencer, that shows, you know, we, it's great to have these numbers, you know, because we keep saying, you know, okay, Jonas is not at the top of the, he's probably not in top, top shape. But you know, if you look at those numbers, he's not far off his best. No, because there's not. You can't get much better than this. Right. So if you would compare those with performances in the Tour, I think it's pretty similar. You know, okay, Jonas can definitely be this year on a higher level than ever in the Tour de France. Although I have my doubts about that, that he can. You know, he, he, he was already on a pretty high level when he won the Tour a few years ago. But, but yeah, I think it's great to have those numbers to see. Okay, this performance Is. Is pretty much, you know, up there with. With his best level.
- [29:04]
B
Yeah. So he's really good. Yeah. I. If he was also. If he was serious about winning the Tour, he wouldn't be here for being completely honest. I think they. I think maybe those days are over.
- [29:15]
C
I don't know, man. I don't know about that. I think they really believe that they can do the double. I think they really believe that. Spencer, you know, until a few years ago, we all thought, you know, that zero and Tour was not doable anymore. Pogacha showed. Yeah.
- [29:30]
B
But no one should make any decision based on what Taday Picacho does.
- [29:34]
C
You know, let's. I just want to go back a few more years. Like, a few more years, like eight, nine years ago. I think. I think Tom Dumoulin was second in the zero.
- [29:47]
B
Second, and he should have won that Tour, and he lost it because he did the zero.
- [29:51]
C
Okay. But, you know, he was on a really high level in both races.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah, I.
- [29:55]
C
So, you know, it's not. It's not. It's not impossible.
- [29:59]
B
Also, Chris Froome did the double the same year and also did not.
- [30:04]
C
He won. He. He. So he won the. The Giro. And then in the Tour, he was not at his best, but he still finished third.
- [30:10]
B
I know, but I think that. I think both. If we go back and we'll do a rewatch, stage by stage, rewatch of both of those races, I think you'll see that they. I think they paid for it. I think. Yeah.
- [30:24]
C
Yeah.
- [30:25]
B
So, I mean, who.
- [30:26]
C
Who was the last rider to do the double before. Before v0 in tour? Was it Pontani?
- [30:36]
B
It was Pantani.
- [30:37]
C
Okay.
- [30:39]
B
Also another person no one should base any decision off of. Right.
- [30:43]
C
Yeah.
- [30:43]
B
No.
- [30:44]
C
And then before that, it was. I think it was probably Steven Roach. No. Did Indra do it or something in the. Ryan did it a few times. Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:52]
B
It's.
- [30:53]
C
I think. I think two or three. Two times, I think.
- [30:56]
B
But what were we talking about? Jonas. Jonas is good. But what. So what do you think about his decision to. To follow? You said the. The leaders should be setting the pace. Once they.
- [31:07]
C
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's. You know, it shows that they. That it was not their plan to go for the stage win. They. They said that. And then, you know, once they got to the last climb, they saw that the break was close enough, and they said, okay, let's give it a go. But it also tells me that the acceleration and the speed of Felix was very, very high. He was not on the limit on the verge of being dropped. Jonas. But he was not, he was not like whistling and you know, like, okay, I'm, I'm chilling here. He was, you know, he had to work, work for it. So, I mean, there was, he couldn't go a lot faster than this. So obviously I think he was wary. He's in a position where he is in front of his main rival, so it's up to his main rivals try to drop him. I personally think, you know, if he would have imposed the rhythm, it would have looked better, but there's no rules about that. You know, nobody can blame him for doing what he did and then winning the stage. That's the way races are. Gaal had his interests to distance his closest rivals and Jonas was with his closest rival and then beat him. So everybody wins.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah, I think we should say just from like a game theory perspective, he shouldn't have, he is nothing today worked out perfectly for him going into that time trial.
- [32:33]
C
Like, he did a great also, Spencer, you know, the last three kilometers were 10.4%. Pulling or not pulling doesn't make that much difference. There's a bit of, it's, I think it's more a mental. I mean, they are going fast.
- [32:46]
B
It's 10, but they're going 20k an hour, so. Okay, but still, that is 20k an hour is fast. Like, yeah, you know, I, I think
- [32:56]
C
if Jonas would have pulled the last kilometer after Gall initiated that move, Gal would not have been able to attack him and then Jonas would maybe have one in the sprint instead of attacking him. That's maybe the only difference. So now, I mean, I, I've seen that he's been criticized to sit on the wheel. I, I, it's a, it's bike racing, man. It's the way he goes.
- [33:21]
B
We should also say he'd averaged in the wheel 420 watts. So yeah, he might, might not have been able to set like that's, he must have been close to as fast as he would have been setting the pace. I think just the bottom line is Phil Skull strong. That reminds me what I was going to say before we talked about the Zero Tour double. It's a theme we've been seeing. Actually, the quiet theme is both these guys, Vindegard and Pagachar are putting out really good numbers. You go back to the two of Roman D. I know that was cast as, oh, Tad sucks. Now look at him. He's, he's fat and he's slow. He's putting out good numbers on these climbs and he's not winning by a lot. You know, Florian Lipowitz is a few seconds back. I think what we're seeing is this young, like these other riders are raising their level. So yeah, they're putting out really good power. They're just not blowing people away like they used to.
- [34:12]
C
Exactly.
- [34:12]
B
Yeah. So something actually something to keep an eye on come Tour time. Because we've had a two man race the last few years. Could be, could be getting more interesting.
- [34:22]
C
Well, I mean, it looks like it's going to be at least a tre man race in the Tour because we, we have to add Paul Exas into the equation initially.
- [34:30]
B
Yeah, no, I agree, Totally agree. Couldn't agree more. Should Felix G. Be going to the Tour to support policy shots? No, no, no. I don't, I don't even agree with that myself.
- [34:42]
C
No, I mean, listen, Paul Exas would be great for him. But, you know, if it's your main goal, the Giro, you focus your whole season on it, that, you know, you do great. If he finishes on the podium, which, you know, looks, looks likely, then you know, there's, you have to decompress, then you have to go to altitude again, usually. And then if you have to be in a support role, usually you don't bounce back. Look, for example, okay, it worked out fine for himself last year. Simon Yates won the Giro, then went in support of Visma. He won a stage from a breakaway, but I can't remember.
- [35:22]
B
And then he retired because he was.
- [35:24]
C
Other stages that he was of any value for the team in the mountains.
- [35:28]
B
Yeah, it's not right. Yeah, it's, it's not a good idea. I, I shouldn't have even said it. Just before we leave the stage, we should talk about Alonso Ulario. So he had the jersey, got the jersey by a lot because of a breakaway. The thought was, well, he's going to slowly lose it and fall down the standings. He's getting chipped. We said we'd lose like a minute and a half to Vinegar yesterday. He lost 41 seconds plus time bonuses. So 51 seconds. Didn't lose a lot of time. The more impressive thing and the more notable thing that we'll have to watch, he's not really losing time to a lot of other GC guys. He loses time to Gaul and Ahrensman other than Vinegard. He takes time. He's taking time on people, takes time on Derek G. West, Jai Hindley, Julio Ciccone. I guess he's not gc Michael Storr. That's not good. If you're going for a high GC placing where you have this guy that's minutes in the lead and he's taking time on you in the mountains. Like what. What do we make of this?
- [36:27]
C
Well, I'm now all of a sudden, you know, he's what? He's what? How far is he ahead now in DC?
- [36:33]
B
Well, so it's deceptive because he's 244 in front of Vindegaard, but that's not. He's. He's like five minutes in front of Timon's arm. So.
- [36:41]
C
244. 244 to Vinegar. I'm, I'm saying that he's. There's a really good chance he's still in pink after the time trial.
- [36:50]
B
I, I agree. I mean taking two and a half minutes would be really hard. So.
- [36:54]
C
Yeah. And also let's, you know. Depends. It depends, you know, if it's. For example, I just watched. It's a straight line, 42 kilometer straight line along the coast flat. You know, these are good bike riders, man. They're in great shape. You know, they all have good. I mean, I don't know. Visma probably has better time trial equipment than, than Bahrain. But say if it's tailwind or something, he's not losing. He's not losing 2 minutes 44 in 42 kilometers. Being in pink.
- [37:23]
B
Yeah, I mean I, I don't think he's going to lose it. I think he's going to be. Start to be a problem for the podium. So he's three minutes behind. He's three minutes in front of Golgo will probably catch him. You would think he's four and a half, fourth place. Yeah, fourth place is four and a half minutes behind him. The problem being all of these guys 4th place and blow lost time to him today. So what would suggest they will start taking time on him?
- [37:48]
C
Well, I think today also, I mean he, you know, he started. I don't know if you heard his interview after the race. He started conservatively, you know, in the. He tried to save as much possible energy. Not fighting too much for position. If you, you know, if you remember, we saw him a bit, a bit more in the back of the group thinking, oh, you know, he's slipping away, he's having some trouble and he did a really amazing last two kilometers. He, he caught up with a lot of guys that were in front of him. Obviously that's also the power of the pink jersey. You know, like you're in this trance, you know, I guess you all of a Sudden you say, oh, wow, you know, I'm. I'm not that far behind. You get motivated and, you know, it gives you wings. The leader's jersey and even if you're not on Red Bull. But, but, but, yeah, I think Rolalo is in this zone now of being, you know, in the leader's jersey and the second big biggest race in the world. And yeah, after the rest day, he. I think, I think, you know, top five, top ten, definitely.
- [38:50]
B
I would say I'd be shocked if he's not in the top 10.
- [38:54]
C
Yeah, he's. Let's not forget Spencer. You know, he is a good rider. He is a good climber. You know, he's not this guy. This guy has been already in front. Like, sometimes you see these attacks in certain races on climbs, and all of a sudden you see this Bahrain guy there. Who is. Who is that? Oh, it's. I've seen a few instances of those already that say, wow, this guy is a good bike rider.
- [39:19]
B
Well, on that note, last year, probably one of the toughest world championships of all time. 270K. Brutal, brutal. Tom Pickock said he's a very good, very good rider. Right. Tom Pickock would all agree. He said, oh, man, that was. I wrote all out, hardest race I've ever done. Finishes two minutes in front of Tom Pitcock at that race.
- [39:38]
C
Wow.
- [39:39]
B
So that's. Which place ninth place. Finished right behind Juana Uso, Isaac del Toro, Julio Chacone. You know, like, these are good riders that he's with. I mean, shout out. My friend JP had to point this out to me. I had forgotten about this. But that shows you he's a more robust rider maybe than we originally thought.
- [40:00]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And still young and developing and discovering his. His limits.
- [40:05]
B
Yeah.
- [40:08]
C
And.
- [40:08]
B
Oh, so you were going to tell us about Piganzoli gets third. This surprised me and I actually worked out for them because, you know, the other day we're like, why are they up, these guys up there? He takes sprints out. Sprints. Ironsman gets a time bonus for third. But you said you have inside info on why they're doing this.
- [40:23]
C
Yeah, I mean, if you look, Piganzoli and Sepkus are the ones that keep pushing, you know, because Pigonzole got third steps got eight also. Didn't sit up.
- [40:30]
B
No.
- [40:31]
C
Right. So from what I understand, the first reason is if there's a bike change.
- [40:39]
B
Okay.
- [40:40]
C
To have somebody close. I mean, both of those guys are, you know, they're not super tall. And those bikes would serve you on Us, you know, in case of emergency. Because the car is never going to be there. You know, they're not. They're never going to. They're going to be a lot earlier than the car.
- [40:55]
B
Yeah.
- [40:56]
C
Unless it's, you know, it's a long climb and Jonas is one or two minutes ahead. But it's. And I can understand that, you know, it's. It's. It's a great way of assuring that there is mechanical assistance from within the team on the roads, always nearby.
- [41:13]
B
Yeah. Actually, this reeks of Patrick Bro as well. But I actually do quite like that because that if you're Jonas, it's the biggest disaster that other than a crash, it's the biggest disaster that could strike physically. You're there. You're where you need to be. Oh, you got a flat because you're running a time trial tire and you're standing on the side of the road. I mean, we saw it happen in Vanderpool. Right. Probably Costum rube this year. Let's just hope they're on the same pedals. Let's hope they're not riding different pedals.
- [41:41]
C
They're all on the. They're all on Speedplay. No, in. In Visma.
- [41:45]
B
Yeah. Which is owned by Wahoo now, I believe. But yeah, actually, Lance was an early speed play guy. Remember that? He switched over to speed play because he thought it gave him a better. Probably was onto something there. Sometimes I wonder about being locked into an SPD pedal, if that's good for you or not. Piganzoli23, super impressive ride. I didn't see that coming, but, yeah, I don't know. Give me more of that. I want to see what this guy can do. What a pickup that's been for them. Anything else, Johan, on the stage before we move on, I think we've covered everything.
- [42:15]
C
I mean, Port Chicone, man, it was a great stage for him. It looked like he was strong, but he spent so much in that pursuit. You know, when they went, when these three guys went, they had to bridge two minutes.
- [42:33]
B
Two minutes. I know. With one guy helping him.
- [42:37]
C
And they did it in a 15 kilometer distance. And 15 kilometers after they attacked, they were there already. So that cost a lot. Then afterwards, you know, he was kind of driving the breakaway also, because as soon as he got there, I think the others say, okay, you know what I mean? He's the strongest guy, so responsibility to him. But it shows that he's in really good shape and he's probably going to win a stage in this. He already had Pink. And I think he's going to win a stage in this Giro.
- [43:06]
B
It is a bit of bad luck, too, because I heard that Visma didn't want to win the stage and they were going to let a break go. So if it wasn't for decathlon, he would have won that stage. Yeah, that is bad luck. And we got pretty close. 57 seconds off the leader. He was right there. Um, but that's what you gotta do. I actually like the idea of adjusting to the scenario. Like, ooh, I don't like this early breakaway situation. I'm gonna wait till the one bump when I can get away and bridge up to them. You're fresher when you get to the final climb. I. I think that's actually the way to go versus trying to get into it at the beginning, which was seemed really.
- [43:39]
C
Yeah, but not if it's two minutes, Spencer, and you have to chase for 15 kilometers with just one guy pulling. That takes a lot out of you. That was. That was. That's probably what cost him the victory at the end, that pursuit.
- [43:52]
B
Do you think, though, to get in the break at the beginning, he's gonna have to give so much on a stage like today? I mean, that's. There'll be better stages later that he'll get a chance at. Today was always going to be hard to get away for a guy.
- [44:05]
C
He said. He said that he's looking more forward to stages where there's some hilly terrain at the beginning.
- [44:11]
B
A good stage, not these crap stages we begin. No, they've actually been pretty good. But let's take another break and then we'll do our week one review. I've got some questions, some rapid fire questions for you, everybody. Today's episode is brought to you by NordVPN, which has become a must have for me to keep up with all of the cycling and other sports I like to watch as I travel around. What I love most is the freedom it gives me. With NordVPN, I can safely access my favorite streams and cycling coverage no matter where I am in the world during major races. That's a huge plus. Whether I'm traveling or just trying to catch catch a broadcast that's not in my region. I can switch my virtual location in seconds and watch exactly what I want. For example, Johan and I are going to be in Belgium during the final, final weekend of the zero at a live show. Come out and see us. And then in NordVPN is going to let me rest easy knowing all I have to do is log on to NordVPN. I put my location wherever I need it to be. Maybe I put it in Canada. I put on flow bikes and I can watch that race no matter where I am. Because sometimes you land you don't know like where who has the NBA rights in Belgium? I don't know. And I don't have to worry about it. I know I can just log on, pick the location that I need where I have my streaming service and I can watch it there. It's incredibly easy to use. Just one click to connect. And with over 7,500 servers in 118 countries, I can change my location effortlessly. And NORDVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there. So I never deal with buffering when I'm streaming. A big mountain stage plus one NordVPN VPN account. This is huge. Works across 10 devices and it supports every major platform. Windows, Android, Mac os, you name it. I used to have a rival VPN and it and and this would trip me up. I. I would like try to log on on another device. It would never work because I would run on slots. With NordVPN, you don't have to worry about that. And to get the best discount on your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com the move our link will give you an extra four months on the two two year plan. That's four months free on the two year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Link is in the episode show notes and it's NordVPN.com the move everybody. This episode is brought to you by Lagoon Sleep. Everyone is obsessed with buying speed these days. Expensive wheel sets, ultra aero bikes tested in wind tunnels. And then they sleep on a pillow they've had since college. Come on, that's absurd. Makes no sense. And here's the thing about endurance athletes. We understand compounding better than anyone. You don't get fitter from one ride. You get fitter from consistent training over time. Sleep works exactly the same way. That's why I feel terrible right now. Cuz I'm waking up so early to watch the zero I'm compounding in the other direction. And one bad night is not the problem. A training block where you're chronically under recovering is. And that starts with what your head is on for eight hours or more a night. Lagoon is a small company built by athletes for athletes. A former Olympic trial swimmer who tested over 60 pillows and couldn't find one with recovery in mind. So he built it himself. You start with a two minute quiz that matches you to the right pillow for your sleep position and body type. Fully adjustable fill so you can dial in the exact height and support you need. I I'm really sensitive about this and that's what I've loved about my Lagoon Sleep pillow. They matched me with the otter and as a hot sleeper I love its temperature regulating gel memory foam. Since switching I've noticed waking up more refreshed and it's easier to get out of bed at 4:30am to catch the start of these zero stages and think of the riders at the zero right now they're racing all day every day and then being expected to show up and be just as strong the next day. For them, recovery isn't a nice to have. It's a critical piece of their arsenal. I hope they have Lagoon Sleep pillows and if you want to get one yourself, go to lagoonsleep.com the move and take a two minute quiz. Use code MOVE M O V E for 15% off Lagoon the marginal gain you've been sleeping on lagoonsleep.com themove for 15% off everybody this episode is brought to you by One Skin. You've heard us talk about One Skin before, and whether you're someone who tries every new skincare product that hits the market or you've been using the same one for years, at some point most of us realize our skin isn't keeping up the way it used to. That's what One Skin changed for me. It didn't just make my existing routine better, it actually works differently than anything else I've ever tried. As we age, some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Longevity scientists call this these the zombie cells. And that's what's driving those visible signs of aging. The fine lines, the loss of firmness, the D that creeps in over time. And One Skin's OS1 peptide was specifically engineered to address those. So you're getting everything you expect from great skin care with OS1 doing something that most skin care was never built to do. And for example, I'm not good at remembering to put sunscreen on. That's not great in a place with high solar radiation like Colorado. So if I wake up to go into the studio to watch a stage and it's not even light out yet, maybe I'm not thinking about sunscreen. But I put on my One Skin OS one moisturizing cream with sunscreen and I'm covered all day. I don't even have to think about it. So if you want to try One Skin, just remember it's born from over a decade of longevity research. And One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age for a limited time, you can try one skin with 15 off using code themove@oneSkin Co the move that's 15 off. OneSkin Co with Code the Move. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show by telling them we sent you. Okay, Johan. So the week one review, just to give people an overview because it actually gets hard to remember. You'd think it wouldn't be that. We've only nine days in, but we, we started in Bulgaria, if you remember. Paul Monier wins stage one in a sprint. Stage two was a priority. Very hard climb that I, I had kind of forgotten about it until I went back and watched. But Jonas vanguard attacks, breaks things up. Thomas or sorry, Guillermo. Thomas Silva from Uruguay. Anastano wins a stage, gets the Maglia Rosa. Paul Monier wins stage three and a cobbled sprint they transfer back to Italy. Jonathan Narvaez wins a reduced sprint after Egan Bernal was dropped and Turner had to drop back. Igor Arieta wins stage five. Brutal, brutal, cold, rainy day through like medium mountains. Davide Ballerini win stage six in Naples in the crash marred sprint. Jonas Finard wins stage seven on Block House. Jonathan Naras wins again on stage eight. Beautiful breakaway day through the Mar region. Jonas Finard wins today, stage nine. That means Paul man has two wins. Jonas Vinegard has two wins. Jonathan Nias has two wins. We're already seeing a pooling of resources with the top 1% here. Thomas Silva won, Arietta one, Ballerini won. All these guys are very good writers. That's what they all have in common, the stage winning teams. That's even more pooled. Johan UAE has three wins it all. Quickstep has two wins. Xcsistan has two wins. Visma has two wins. I don't know if I've ever seen a Grand Tour that goes into the first rest day where no team has less than two wins or has a single win. It shows you how hard it is, how hard it is out there for a small team.
- [51:14]
C
Yeah, it's hard if you have to be a really good writer to win a stage in a ground tour and as a team to win multiple stages, it's not given, you know, it's not given. It takes a lot. So. But yeah, I think we saw really Entertaining stages, man. I mean, even. I mean, even the sprint stages were entertaining, unfortunately, you know, some of them because of crashes. But now we get to. We get to the first real rest day, and these nine stages have taken already a lot, a lot out of the riders because the speeds in some of the stages were incredibly high. And from now on, you know, stage 10, that's when it starts. When it starts. When you start to see, okay, the half. Half of the peloton, the energy is low. And most of those guys do not recover anymore. They just drag themselves now through the next two weeks, which is very long in the Giro.
- [52:10]
B
And if you were Visma, if you were Jonas, what would your strategy look like for the second week?
- [52:17]
C
Well, it looks like he's not. I mean, maybe not going to be in pink. So I would personally, I mean, there's this also, Spencer, I don't know if you've heard of this, this debate about the skin suits.
- [52:32]
B
Okay, I was. I forgot to bring that up. But first of all, what. Why is he in a blue jersey? Do you know?
- [52:39]
C
Well, he's. He's the leader in the mountains classification.
- [52:41]
B
Is that what that is?
- [52:42]
C
As of today, I think, yeah, it's the mountains classification. So as of today, I think it's. He's officially number one. Way before. Was it before? I mean, it must have been a lot. You. Anyways, he's. He's in this. He's in the leader's jersey and of the mountains classification. So by definition, you have to wear the skin suit of the sponsor of the Giro, which is, in this case, Castelli. And I've seen something, a comment of. I don't know if it was Jonas or a staff member of Visma, that they think that over 40 kilometers, their skin suit, which, you know, teams put a lot of resources and a lot of investigation and research in wind tunnel testing, getting the best possible equipment, then collaborate with their equipment sponsors, bikes, wheels, helmets, glasses, clothing, to have the best possible equipment. And so they seem to think that their skin suit over 40k is a minute faster than the Castelli, which I personally think is a lot. But mentally, if a rider knows and has done all those tests and then has to, on a day, on an important day, has to put another skin suit on. That kind of sucks, you know, and it's the eternal debate, right? Like, okay, why don't. Why don't the organizations of the big races just don't give the designs of the leader jerseys to the teams with the right sponsors on and let them produce those same Skin suits with their own manufacturer. I mean, ultimately, it's not going to make that big of a difference to an organization, whether it's the Tour, the Giro or the Vuelta, to have that little bit of extra money for. From a clothing sponsor. The big, the big, the big money comes from the advertising sponsors, you know, and so I think that's something that the team should fight for and impose, actually. I think the teams should impose the fact that, okay, we'll wear the leader's jersey. With your sponsors on. With your sponsors on, but we produce them. You know, it's easy. Yeah, just give the design to the guys and so that everybody actually use the investments that they have made over. Over the. In the off season to get faster. Well, let's. It makes no sense.
- [55:12]
B
Let's say. That's right. Let's say it's a minute, right? Well, what's a minute? That minute doesn't matter. Do you know how many editions over the last 15 years have been decided by less than a minute of the year to tell you?
- [55:28]
C
Not many.
- [55:29]
B
It's basically half. Seven of them. Seven of the 15.
- [55:32]
C
Seven of.
- [55:32]
B
That's what I'm telling you about the mountains, man. They don't. They do not produce the. The gaps like we used to see. So in theory, this is caught. This could cost Jonas the Giro d' Italia just mathematically half the time a minute would cost a writer the overall win. So, no, it's not going to cost
- [55:51]
C
him the win, but it's probably not
- [55:52]
B
going to cost him a minute in the time trial. That's probably everything being equal, like in a. You know, I don't think it's actually going to cost him that.
- [55:58]
C
I mean, listen, Castelli is also a good brand.
- [56:01]
B
Yeah.
- [56:01]
C
Whether they, I mean, actually they have their own brand, Fisma. Right. They actually do what they want. They. They're not tied to a clothing sponsor. Don't they have like this. What is it called? Yellow Bee or something?
- [56:12]
B
Yeah, it's like yellow clothing. It used to be. Yeah, they used to be a. What was a Gaboo or something. I'd never heard of the company. But then they went away from them and now. Now they have their own brand. I mean, maybe I. I've heard. Maybe you get like. I talked to a clothing sponsor that said they were paying a team like a million euros to sponsor the team. So maybe Visma thought it's not worth it. Right. Just better make your own clothes. But a lot of these years, AU
- [56:41]
C
was definitely not paying a million, I can tell you that. Much.
- [56:44]
B
Well, yeah, Then they probably thought, let's just not do that. It. But it is like the Giro is a race of small margins. You think about it as being a race of big margins. It's not. So if you're. You're Jonas, you got to wear this jersey. You go in and then he's probably not going to get the GC lead. So then do you just lay low for the second week?
- [57:03]
C
Yeah, I would. I would until the. Until the next. I think the next mountain stage is. What is stage 13 or 14?
- [57:09]
B
14. It's actually. It's. It's almost a week from today.
- [57:12]
C
Yeah. So it's another three, four days, you know. Yep.
- [57:16]
B
It's perfect. It actually is a perfect situation for them.
- [57:18]
C
Yeah.
- [57:19]
B
For everybody else, of course.
- [57:21]
C
Spencer, he's gonna go full gas and if doesn't respond. Yeah, he's gonna take pink. You know, he's not gonna leave pink just on purpose. He's not gonna slow down on purpose to not get the pink jersey in the time trial. That I can guarantee.
- [57:33]
B
Should he may manage his effort in the time trial, go slow on purpose. That would be idiotic. What. What was your highlight from the last week? Your personal highlight?
- [57:49]
C
Difficult to say. I mean, for me personally, I think that the. The most exciting stage and the guy. And actually I was happy to say this was probably the win of Arieta. After all the drama.
- [58:03]
B
Yeah.
- [58:03]
C
The crash coming back, the other guy crashes, then Arieta takes the wrong way, you know, and then still comes back and wins. You know, when both of them were dying to get to the finish. I think that was for me the most exciting moment of. Of the whole. Of the. All the stages. Probably.
- [58:22]
B
That's probably been the thing that non cycling people, just random people have mentioned to me personally, I like the Narvaez stage wins. I. I thought. I'm a Narvaez guy. I thought yesterday was beautiful. Thought it was a beautiful.
- [58:34]
C
And also the. The super exciting stage of Guillermo. Tomas.
- [58:40]
B
Yeah.
- [58:41]
C
Silva. I mean, Uruguayan. A guy that is relatively unknown for the broad public to. To win in that fashion. That was. That was super nice.
- [58:49]
B
And we're learning so much about these guys. Like, I didn't know that much about him. And then now, you know, he's a. He's a very good writer, like, not just a sprinter. So that's very cool. Who's won the GC besides Jonas, because he would obviously be the winner. So, like, who's having the best GC race that. But you can't say Jonas.
- [59:10]
C
Well, for the moment, it's Felix Gal.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah, he's.
- [59:14]
C
He's in pole position to be. To be on the podium also. I mean, who's. Yeah, I mean, listen. I mean, we've talked about you. That he's in great position, kind of liking where Hindley is going. And, and even if Ben o' Connor today was struggling a little bit, I still see him being up there. I mean, at least top five for Ben Cabano, Connor. But. Yeah, but I think the, the winner for the moment of the gc, except Jonas, is Felix Gal.
- [59:50]
B
No doubt one person I would agree with all that. One person I would add in there who's kind of surprised we forgot about him. He stormed onto the. At the Vuelta. The Vuelta that Remco won. Tyman Arnsmann, I mean, he was the main engine in that chase today. And then he f. He wouldn't have wanted to lose to Pzoli, but he finishes ahead of most other GC guys and he's going into the time trial and he's climbing well. So that's. We're finally seeing Ahrensman kind of put it together in a GC sense, which, which we've not seen.
- [60:19]
C
And also very, very exciting. Exciting to see Martel Belocchi in 11th place. 20 years old, son of Josepa Belocchi. You know, he turned pro when he was, I think, 18 years old, straight into the World Tour. So this is. He's 20 years old. This is his third season as a, As a. As a professional rider.
- [60:42]
B
Borderline too early to go pro.
- [60:44]
C
And he's in, he's in 11th place in the overall. So he's hanging in there. He's, you know, he's confirming that, you know, he has. He's really a solid rider. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how, how long he can stay there, but I would love to see that guy finish in the top 10. That would be. That would be really cool.
- [61:05]
B
How did he pick that team he's on ef?
- [61:09]
C
I don't know. I don't know. He was on a. He was on the Spanish team and then they offered him straight from junior, straight from juniors to the World Tour.
- [61:19]
B
Yeah, I mean, that could have been the deciding factor. Maybe there wasn't a lot of teams willing to do that. So who. Who's had the worst GC week in week one. I get, relative to expectations, you can't just pick the person in last place.
- [61:37]
C
No, I know, I know. I mean, disappointing a bit. Obviously it's a gun Bernal. I think the worst, you See, I think is probably Henrik Maas. You know, if we still consider anybody, you know, let's not forget this guy has been at least three times, if not more on the podium of the, of the Vuelta. He's been top five in the Tour de France. He did obviously have physical problems in the off season, which, you know, we don't know the extent of these problems and you know, it was, it was not looking good, so.
- [62:12]
B
Well, you said he wasn't able to do physical activity for three months, which.
- [62:16]
C
Yes, yes, yes. So, so I don't know exactly what the, what, what the problem was, but, but obviously, you know that he's completely out of it. So I think. But, but I would say probably, I think we expected a bit more from him. Doesn't look like for the moment he is. He's not even in the top 10.
- [62:42]
B
No. And, but the thing, the thing about Bernal is we expected more, I guess. And then you go back and he's actually pacing about where he was in the last Grand Tour. He did well to. So, yeah, he says he's doing the best power of his life. So maybe that's just kind of what Bernal is right now.
- [62:59]
C
Yeah.
- [63:00]
B
And he was seventh at this race last year. So you would think maybe his ceiling tied in that I actually looked up who's last place. Super interesting. Do you know who it is?
- [63:11]
C
I'm going to tell you because I'm here. I'm just here on. Wait, so who is it?
- [63:14]
B
It's actually very disappointing.
- [63:16]
C
Oh, wow. Frank van den Broek.
- [63:18]
B
Wow.
- [63:19]
C
That's a rider. Something must have happened to him also because he was very promising. He came from a third division team, like a club team. Did some really good races in Belgium and the Netherlands. Got picked up by DSM back in the days. I never know what the teams were called in the last few years, these teams, but. And now. And then was two years ago the driving force in stage one at the Tour de France. And let, let the. The victory to remember.
- [63:48]
B
Yep.
- [63:48]
C
In, in, in Italy. Right.
- [63:50]
B
Yep.
- [63:52]
C
In the Tour de France. So. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with him. Something must, something must be wrong.
- [63:57]
B
And we thought, man, this guy, star of the future. And then just something's not quite right. That whole. I mean, my next question. Which team has had the worst week.
- [64:15]
C
Difficult of probably picnic. Picnic. Boston. Hell.
- [64:20]
B
They're.
- [64:20]
C
They're nowhere.
- [64:21]
B
I mean I was. Yeah, I would have said the same thing.
- [64:25]
C
Little track.
- [64:26]
B
Little track. Yeah. Technically, yes.
- [64:29]
C
They've been close Today they were close. They've been.
- [64:32]
B
They did have a leader's jersey, we should say.
- [64:34]
C
It did have the pink jersey.
- [64:36]
B
True.
- [64:36]
C
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, from the big teams, I mean, Red Bull has not been, you know, they're up there, but there's no results, no stage wins yet. So I think they came from more than this.
- [64:54]
B
The problem with Red Bull, too, is no stage wins. Not really the prospect of stage wins, because unless Jai Hindley is going to impel Azariah, you're going to win from the GC group. How are they going to win a stage?
- [65:05]
C
Yeah.
- [65:05]
B
You know, that. That would start to worry me. Picnic.
- [65:09]
C
It a little.
- [65:09]
B
A little disappointing. Especially since they have guys like Frank Vandenbrook. You'd think they're struggling to get in breakaways. We did learn. I feel like we should. We did learn that there was this big talk of, oh, they got a 6 million euro buyout for Oscar Onley. And then we learned maybe it was about a third. A third of that.
- [65:25]
C
Yeah.
- [65:25]
B
And so you're like, where did all this money go? It's like, well, actually, maybe they don't. They might not be hoarding a bunch of money that we thought. And, Johan, it actually has me going back and questioning a lot of what we heard this last offseason in terms of financial figures, because my guess about what happened there is an agent went to a writer and said, this is what Ineos paid for Onley, or this is what Trek paid for. So. And so. And the figure gets put out there and it inflates the market for everybody else.
- [65:54]
C
Yeah.
- [65:55]
B
Now I'm kind of questioning a lot of what we heard in terms of these transfer fees.
- [66:00]
C
Yeah. We never really. We don't know. We don't know.
- [66:02]
B
Yeah. So just I wanted to throw this out there because Picnic could be like, a lot.
- [66:07]
C
Six million seemed like a lot for me to. For Oscar only. So. Yeah.
- [66:15]
B
Yeah. So. And everything makes sense. If you learn that that's not true, you're like, well, okay, that's why Picnic's not signing a bunch of riders. That's. Yeah. You know, they probably paid a more reasonable fee along. You know, Remco Evanopol went over for a fairly reasonable fee to Red Bul. So if he got that, it would make sense that someone like Oscar Onley would get three times as much as.
- [66:37]
C
Do you call that a reasonable fee to get Remco?
- [66:42]
B
Would they. Would they pay like 2 million?
- [66:45]
C
Yeah. How about 7? Wait, wait.
- [66:47]
B
What was the transfer fee for remco? It was 7.
- [66:50]
C
7 million.
- [66:51]
B
Are we sure about that?
- [66:53]
C
I am 99% sure.
- [66:55]
B
Is that his salary plus his fee. No, no, no, no, no, no. No.
- [66:59]
C
Transfer fee. 7 million.
- [67:00]
B
That's too much. Yeah, that's too much.
- [67:05]
C
Yeah.
- [67:05]
B
Well, interesting, huh? I'm reeling now. I'm reeling. Okay, last question. Who is going to surprise us in terms of GC in the second week?
- [67:20]
C
I don't know. Let me. Let me have a quick look at the gc. So somebody who moves up. I think. You know what, he's gonna lose time in the time trial, but. Well, I think Aronsman is going to be good. He looks. He looks like he's solid, but I think. I mean, if we call it a surprise, I'm gonna. I'm gonna probably pick Matisse Rondell, the French rider, the young French rider on the door.
- [67:51]
B
Very good.
- [67:52]
C
He's a really good climber. No pressure on him. He's 22 years old. Yeah, I think. I think he's gonna maintain him. Maintain the position there in the top 10. If not, move up a little bit. Although moving up is not going to be easy. But, yeah, I think that that would be the guy.
- [68:15]
B
And I said that was the last question. I lied. Who's going to win Tomorrow's stage 10 time trial? 40. What do we say? 42km and pancake flat and it is straight down the coast one direction.
- [68:26]
C
Tuesday.
- [68:26]
B
Tuesdays. Yes, Tuesday.
- [68:28]
C
Yeah. People gone on.
- [68:30]
B
Gotta be Ghana, right? I mean, even if we try. Let's try to reverse engineer an upset.
- [68:35]
C
Who.
- [68:36]
B
Who is even upsetting him?
- [68:38]
C
I mean, Ghana or Arnold's month.
- [68:42]
B
If Ironsman wins the time trial, that's. That would have it. That would be interesting because then normally it's.
- [68:48]
C
Normally it's. Normally it's Ghana. It's gone.
- [68:50]
B
It's definitely Ghana. Definitely.
- [68:53]
C
Or Jonas. Or Jonas.
- [68:55]
B
Well, Jonas beating Ghana In a 42 kilometer, that would be.
- [69:00]
C
Would be. It would be a surprise. But let's not forget it's 10 days. Although Ghana, I mean. Yeah, it has to be Ghana, Spencer, because Ghana has been now the last three days, saving himself purely for this. For this time trial, you know, So, I mean, Ghana owes it to himself and his pedigree to win the time trial.
- [69:20]
B
The only other person I would mention is Alec Sejant.
- [69:24]
C
Alex,
- [69:27]
B
I mean, is he only other guy with even the engine, I would think, to compete? Yeah, maybe Mateo Sobreiro.
- [69:34]
C
But yeah, I think. I think Ghana's probably, you know, better. I mean, he's a better time probably than Alex Segart still, for the Moment. I also don't know. I mean, if you look at the equipment, the Pinarellos are probably better than the Bianchi's Tampa bikes.
- [69:52]
B
Yeah. Yeah, probably.
- [69:54]
C
I mean, you have to take it into account, you know.
- [69:56]
B
Well, yeah, it was, I was thinking about that too yesterday because we're talking about picnic. We're like, where's picnic? Picnic should be up there. You know, Brider, that was on picnic last year and is now on a super team, told me the bike is significantly slower on picnic. So. You, you do?
- [70:11]
C
Oh, yeah. I know. There's no doubt about it.
- [70:13]
B
You kind of forget about it. But it does make a big difference. I'm going to say my big prediction.
- [70:18]
C
You're talking. I, you haven't said the name, but I, I, I probably, I'm not going
- [70:24]
B
to say his name.
- [70:26]
C
He goes from this bike to probably
- [70:28]
B
the fastest bike, probably the slowest bike to the fastest bike. Yeah.
- [70:31]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [70:32]
B
And it's probably not stressed every day about his paycheck.
- [70:36]
C
Exactly.
- [70:36]
A
Yeah.
- [70:37]
B
He probably feels better on the bike. My big. I think Ghana's gonna win. I think you're right. My big prediction. Jonas has a disappointing time trial. No, you don't think so. You think he. Okay, but I guess we should define
- [70:50]
C
you think he beats what would be a disappointing time. What. What would mean a disappointment.
- [70:55]
B
I think he loses enough time on
- [70:57]
C
not taking enough time on, on Felix Gal and, and, and whoever on Hindley.
- [71:05]
B
Well, a success would be taking time on every GC contender and then.
- [71:10]
C
Yeah, which I think he will.
- [71:11]
B
I think he does not. Except I think he doesn't take time on Ironsman. That would be my definition of disappointment
- [71:18]
C
is aren't smell a real threat for Jonas Vingegaard. I'm going to say no.
- [71:22]
B
Probably no. But if he doesn't take time on Ahrensman, then he's not taking as much time as he could on Gaul. And then does it leave him vulnerable in the mountains in the third week?
- [71:31]
C
Week would be the only, the best climber, Spencer.
- [71:36]
B
I mean, he is the best climber, but it's not, he, he, it's not, he's not slammed the book shut with these performances. He's won.
- [71:44]
C
No, that's true.
- [71:45]
B
12 seconds and like 13 seconds. So.
- [71:49]
C
Yeah, two times, two times a small margin. Correct. Correct. The, the, the, the question is how hard did he try? He, I mean, on Blockhouse, he tried hard.
- [71:56]
B
I mean, the numbers would suggest he's trying very hard.
- [71:59]
C
Yeah. And also, you know, he went with 4k to go, you know, so 5k to go. No, more.
- [72:05]
B
More or less 5k to go. And then lost time through the last 4k.
- [72:08]
C
So that's. That's a hard effort. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He did try hard there today. He didn't try very hard. He just, you know, took the same time with a 900 meter effort compared to a 5 kilometer effort. Took the same time on goal.
- [72:24]
B
And that's a good point. Yeah. 500 meters versus 5 kilometers same time, which is probably also why he did not leave that wheel, because he didn't want the same thing to happen.
- [72:38]
C
Who.
- [72:39]
B
How do you think all does in the time trial?
- [72:43]
C
Not good. Not great. Not great. I mean, he's on good form, so, you know, like, he's probably going to be top 20, top 30.
- [72:54]
B
How much time does he lose to Vindegaard?
- [73:00]
C
Minimum two minutes.
- [73:01]
B
Whoa. I was gonna say a kilometer a second or. Sorry. A kilometer a second. A kilometer. Yeah.
- [73:08]
C
No, no, no, no, no.
- [73:10]
B
Two minutes. Okay. If he takes two minutes. Yeah. Gaul's gonna have a hard time.
- [73:14]
C
Yeah.
- [73:14]
B
In the third week.
- [73:15]
C
Yeah. 30 seconds per 10 kilometers. Yeah.
- [73:18]
B
Two minutes would be. Oh, yeah, that's a blowout.
- [73:22]
C
Yeah.
- [73:23]
B
So. But he's taking two minutes on Gall and then two minutes on Ulario. You think? Yeah, yeah. And then Ularia holds the race lead.
- [73:33]
C
I think Alalio would probably outperform goal in the time.
- [73:37]
B
It's not. Yeah, that's not crazy to think. I. I don't know. I'm curious to see how G does. I'm gonna say I'm going to. I'm going to go on a limb. I'm going to say gall loses 70 seconds to Vinico.
- [73:50]
C
110. Okay.
- [73:52]
B
And we all say. Oh, whoa, Kenny, hang. I mean, we both know that Jonas is going to win this race. I'm just trying to entertain myself in my own mind about what could happen, but thanks, Johan. And we'll be back after the time trial on Tuesday to talk about it.
- [74:07]
C
All right, thanks. Bye.
- [74:23]
A
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B
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C
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