Can Tadej Pogačar Get His Revenge on Remco Evenepoel? | World Championship RR Preview | OŪTCOMES

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Episode Summary:

Can Tadej Pogačar Get His Revenge on Remco Evenepoel? | World Championship RR Preview | OŪTCOMES
Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Spencer Martin & Johan Bruyneel

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Episode Overview

This episode provides an in-depth preview of the upcoming Men’s World Road Race Championships in Kigali, Rwanda. The hosts begin with reflections on Remco Evenepoel’s dominant victory in the World Time Trial, analyze the significance of that result for the upcoming road race, and debate whether Tadej Pogačar can get his revenge. They also discuss the distinct dynamics of national-team racing, course characteristics, rider form, old and new time trial legends, equipment, and wild card contenders. The debate is lively, expert, and frequently humorous, offering a true insider's perspective for cycling fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Remco Evenepoel’s Time Trial Dominance

• Unmatched Performance:
  • Remco crushed the World Time Trial Championship, winning by a huge margin (>1 minute to second place).
  • Johan: “Remco won the time trial. He's now three times in a row World champion... in this generation, he's the best time trialist.” [04:00]
• Pogačar’s Unexpected Struggles:
  • Pogačar finished 4th, his best result ever in a Worlds TT, but was completely eclipsed by Remco’s form, even being overtaken on the road.
  • Johan: “People were shocked about Pogachar's 4th place... if you look at it, Bogachar was fourth... not a bad time trial.” [04:41]
• Specialization & Preparation:
  • Remco’s results are credited to meticulous preparation and obsession with aerodynamics and time trial equipment.
  • Johan: “There’s nobody who works so fanatically on the time trial position, on the equipment, on the clothing, on the helmet, on everything than Rimco.” [20:08]
• Standout Quote:
  • Spencer: “Remco is hacked it. Whatever he's doing is working very well.” [08:03]
• Comparison with History:
  • Discussion on whether Remco is the best ever in the discipline, comparing him to Tony Martin, Cancellara, Anquetil, and legends like Eddy Merckx.
  • Johan: “There is only one rider best of all times. That's Eddie Merckx. He was the best at everything of all time except sprinting. But he won a lot of sprints too.” [00:00, 11:41]

2. Implications for the World Road Race

• National Team Tactics:
  • The Worlds are raced with national teams, not trade teams, introducing unpredictable dynamics.
  • Spencer: “I find the world's to be the strangest race of the year. That's why it's so fun.” [42:53]
• Kigali Course Profile:
  • 268km race, 5,500m of climbing, altitude (~1,500m), sections of cobbles, and a long, hard climb in the middle.
  • Johan: “It's going to be an elimination race... 5,500 meters... The strongest guy is going to win.” [43:13]
  • Spencer: “Significantly harder than any other one-day race this year.” [41:17]
• Altitude Effects:
  • Johan: “It's not 2000 meters, but you feel it. It definitely has an impact.” [41:08]

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3. Contender Breakdown & Predictions

Main Favorites

• Tadej Pogačar:

  • Heavy favorite due to record in high-altitude, high-climbing one-day races.
  • Spencer: “If you sort Tadej Pogačar by one day races over 4,000 vertical meters, he’s undefeated in those he’s finished since 2021.” [48:53]
  • Expectation that Pogačar will recover from a lackluster TT and be a different rider come the road race.
  • Johan: “I have no doubt that Pogaccia is going to be different on Sunday.” [22:00]

• Remco Evenepoel:

  • In top form and the only major favorite who scheduled his season specifically around this event; fresh, motivated, with momentum from TT win.
  • Johan picks Remco to win: “He looks fresh. Ready to go to war.” [45:14]

Tactics and Head-to-Head

• Spencer posits that Remco will work with Pogačar if they go together on the decisive climb.
• Concerns raised about whether either can escape the other, with a selection likely emerging on the toughest climbs, especially with national teams and no team radios.

Wildcards and Potential Surprises

• Tom Pidcock:

  • Identified as the top wild card due to Vuelta form, ability at distance and on hard terrain.
  • Johan: “Super high pedigree, super talented, in great shape. Just finished third at the Vuelta… Plus 1500 is really good odds.” [53:20]

• Mattias Skjelmose:

  • Spencer’s pick for a potential upset, citing his tactical awareness and win over both Remco and Pogačar at Amstel Gold.
  • “The last time we saw a real duel between Pogačar and Evenepoel in a one-day race? Amstel Gold. Who won that? Mateusz Skjelmose.” [54:51]

• Other Names:

  • Ben Healy and Richard Carapaz distinguished as possible long-shot winners for their climbing and one-day racing chops.
  • Isaac Del Toro highlighted for outstanding form, but doubted for the distance in a monument-classic-like race. [51:08]

Teams & Internal Dynamics

• Slovenia and Belgium both have depth but clear leaders (Pogačar/Remco).
• Denmark’s team chemistry cited as exemplary—a reason to watch Skjelmose.
• Doubts about Primož Roglič’s condition and role (support or contender).

Notable Quotes

• Johan (on Remco): “There's nobody else. Remco is the leader. Von Wilder, wild card. Everybody else is at the service of the team.” [56:06]
• Johan (on Pogačar): “Of course he’s the big favorite but so many things can happen... he’s human.” [24:33]

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4. Additional Topics and Insights

Riders to Watch and "Best of All Time" Debate

• Arguments about Remco’s place among the greats – is he already ‘best ever’ in the TT? Both hosts: Not yet, but he’s on the way.
• Technical discussion of the evolution and relevance of the hour record in cycling history.

Race Organization & UCI Critiques

• Lively criticism of the UCI’s technical and event decisions, with special ire for allowing “World Cycling Center” development riders to race without time trial bikes.
• Johan: “As the UCI, you have to have your whole team on the same bikes, man. I mean, what is this? It's your event, your team, and your riders are not on TT bikes.” [35:02]

Race Preview: Junior & Other Events

• Brief discussion of U.S. junior results and resource challenges.
• Discussion of the Mixed Relay, its awkwardness, and lack of appeal.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Remco’s TT Dominance & Pogačar’s Struggles: [03:30–11:00]
• Best Time Trialists Ever Debate: [11:12–15:00]
• Hour Record History & Remco’s Aspirations: [15:00–19:36]
• Remco’s Obsessive Preparation: [20:08–21:21]
• Form, Altitude, and Road Race Preview: [21:21–42:53]
• Course Analysis & Racing Dynamics: [39:57–41:17]
• Favorites, Tactics, and Predictions: [42:53–56:00]
• Underdogs & Wild Cards: [52:29–55:17]
• Team Hierarchies: [56:06–57:16]
• Discussion of Development Riders, UCI Criticism, and Advocacy: [32:29–35:02]
• Rider Watchlist and Final Wrap-Up: [57:16–62:20]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “There is only one rider best of all times. That's Eddie Merckx... he was the best cyclist of all times.” — Johan Bruyneel [00:00, 11:41]
• “Remco is hacked it. Whatever he's doing is working very well... needs to be studied.” — Spencer Martin [08:03]
• “Remco looked like ready to go to war.” — Johan Bruyneel [45:14]
• “If you sort Tadpagachar by one day races over 4000 vertical meters, he has not lost one of those races that he's finished.” — Spencer Martin [48:53]
• “The world's to be the strangest race of the year. That's why it's so fun.” — Spencer Martin [42:53]
• “As the UCI, you have to have your whole team on the same bikes, man. What is this?” — Johan Bruyneel [35:02]

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Episode Conclusion

The hosts deliver a rich, playful, and deeply informed preview of one of cycling’s most challenging and unpredictable events. The consensus is that Pogačar and Evenepoel are the two overwhelming favorites, but the race’s length, climbing, altitude, and unpredictable dynamics keep the door open for high-value outsiders like Pidcock and Skjelmose. The show offers sharp historical context, technical insight, and inside-out commentary—making it essential listening for cycling fans seeking more than simple race predictions.

Transcript

[Johan Berniel]

There is only one rider best of all times. That's Eddie Marx. He was the best at everything of all time except sprinting. But he won a lot of riders, a lot of stages in sprints. Yeah, but. Yeah, you know, but he was the best cyclist of all times. Probably won most of the time trials that he did. Maybe lost a few, but not many. But anyways, you know, you can't compare. You can't compare. Aramco is right now definitely the best time trialist of generation by far.

[Spencer Martin]

Hi, I'm Spencer Martin along with Johan Berniel, and this is Outcomes. Outcomes is for informational entertainment purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered financial advice. Please gamble responsibly and if you or someone you know has a gambling problem, seek help from a professional resource host and guests may have financial interests in the bets discussed. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Everybody. Welcome back to Outcomes. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel, as always, and we are previewing the upcoming Men's World Road Race Championship Championships in Kigale, Rwanda. And before we do that, we're also going to chit chat a little bit about the time trial, the impressive performance from Rimco Evanopol, and as well as a few of the other results. Before we get into that, let's hear from our partner on today's show. And then I'm going to ask Johan his take on the time trial. Everybody. This episode is brought to you by Fabric by Gerber Life. You know, running a household with kids is pure chaos. Add in podcast, racing coverage, travel, it is a lot. And while we plan for the day today, the truth is you all also need a plan for protecting your family if something unexpected ever happens to you. That's where Fabric by Gerber Life comes in. I know I worry about this a lot, especially since I'm out on my road bike quite a bit. And you never know what's going to happen. It is. It is peace of mind if you know that your family is going to be okay without you. And that's why Fabric offers term life insurance you can get done today. It's made for busy parents like you all online, all on your schedule, right from your couch. You could be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required. And here's the thing. If you're young and healthy, now is the time to lock in low rates. Even if you already have some coverage to your employer, that policy might not be enough and it might not follow you if you switch jobs. Fabric makes it simple and affordable with flexible, high quality policies that can fit your budget like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day. So join thousands of parents who trust fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just [e-mail] themove that's meatfabric.com themove me fabric.com the move policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. All right Johan, just to start things off to we're going to look backwards before we look forwards. Your countryman Remco Evanopole showed up to the I, I hope I said I thought he might win the, the time trial championship in our last show because he was, it was not even close. He absolutely blew everybody away. Tada Pagachar who I guess and maybe even I said it was a pre race favorite but in reality was not even really close. Jay vine was second a minute and 14 seconds back. Really impressive considering how good Evanopole was. Elon Van Wilder, Evanopole's teammate on sedal Quickstep and Countryman 236 back. Really impressive. Pagachar 237 and then almost ride of the day. Isaac del Toro 240 back. And keep in mind this is a 40 kilometer hilly time trial. 50 minutes for the winner. Basically 50 minutes. So almost an hour long time trial. You don't see many of these. I think the big takeaway was Pagachar stinks. Evanopole is awesome. Evanopole is the best. Now move over Tour de France. I think there's a little bit more nuance behind the scenes there that we'll get into. But what was your takeaway from that performance?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I mean I, I think logic has been respected. Right. Remco won the time trial. He's now three times in a row.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

World champion. So I think that says something about, you know, his, his qualities. I, I think it's fair to say that right now in this moment, in this generation, he's the best time trialist people. Ghana is a close second but you know it starts to be more tilting towards Remco especially when there's a bit of elevation in, in the course. Honestly I didn't expect him to be so dominant. Jay vine second place comes with great form out of the Vuelta lost that time trial against Ghana with one second. So obviously that was a, that was a great performance but still, you know, was 1 minute 14 to, to REMCO and it's true as you say, you know they are not used anymore. Right. Nowadays to do these 40 kilometer long time trials. It's, you know, like 23, 25 max, you know. Yeah, but, but basically I think. And then, yeah, I mean people were kind of, some of, some of them would say they were shocked about Pogachar's fourth place. I think the, the image of the, of the time trial was basically Remco catching who had started two and a half minutes in front of him. That was definitely something that we hadn't seen. Definitely not with Pogachar. But if you look at it, Bogachar was fourth in the time trial. So it's, you know, he didn't do a bad time trial and it's his best result ever in the World Championships time trial. He's been really in the back already. I think he's, he's been 23rd or 24th in Scotland and then he ended up finishing third in the, in the road race. I think, I think it's, it was to be expected. I think that people were too hyped up about, yeah, can Pugach win this time trial? If I think Pugach is, he's not a time trialist. Yeah, he does really good time trials in stage races, which is completely different. Completely different. And then on top of that, I would say also Remco, I mean, hats off for, for his performance. But he is, I think if you look at the, the first guys, he's the, he's the only one who has prepared specifically for this time trial. You know, we all know that he abandoned the Tour de France, then took some time off and then basically work towards the World Championships. Just did the Tour of Great Britain as a preparation to get back into competition. But I don't think there's anybody of that top five riders who had spent more time on the time trial bike than Remco in the last month or the last one and a half month. And he is already the biggest specialist and he is by miles the most aerodynamic rider. Yes, it was favoring the climbers. That's for example, the third place of Van Wilder is a good example. He's not known as being, he's not a bad time draw ist, don't get me wrong. But you know, you would never put him in the top three if you have to do a prediction. But Remco, you know, he's, he's pretty good also on hilly courses. You know, I mean, he's, he's won Lie Baston Liege twice. He's won Sanser Sebastian three times. He's won the va, been third in the Tour. So these are not like un, un, like, you know, impossible climbs for, for Remco. So yeah, I mean, I, I think I was, I was surprised with the, the dominance, but I think the, the result was kind of expected. Se. Definitely first and second. I think if there was one rider who could come close to Remco, it was Jay vine because of his incredible condition right now. But, you know, he didn't come close.

[Spencer Martin]

And even talking about Jay vine, it's like, yeah, he's very good. He. Great result. But, well, he wasn't at an altitude camp before he was at the VTA racing. You know, then he's shifting like, and I don't, don't ask me to explain it. But time, standalone time trialing is so different physically than, than stage racing, which is why you see a lot of stage racers, like top GC riders, win time trials at the Tour de France or in, in other grand tours and then not win the world championships or not win the Olympics. It's, it's very different. Remco is, is hacked it. Like, what, whatever he's doing is working very well and like, yet. So let's say he's not a climber. Like, not great at climbing at the Tour this year, but as you say, yeah, he won the vta, but even in that Vuelta he won. He's very good at like, d. Like, I need to climb this climb very fast, and he can like, dial in on that effort. And he's so fast. Like, I, I don't, I, I need Remco to be studied, like, for. He can come in on these specific efforts and just like, it is unbelievable how much he blows people away. I was wondering. And also, he looks like John caught Van Damme right now. The guy is yoked.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, I mean, I, I, I, let's not, let's not focus too much. There's that one picture that I saw on the Internet also, you know, he has his sleeves up and he looks, he looks kind of, you know, he, he's, he's fit. He's very fit. But, but you know, we can say, people say, okay, Remco is not a climber. He can't climb. I mean, man, let me tell you, a rider who wins the Vuelta and is third in the Tour, he can climb. He, there's better climbers than him, but he can climb. He can definitely climb. You cannot win a Grand Tour if you can't climb Spencer. And you can, you cannot be third in the Tour de France if you can't climb. There's no way we're.

[Spencer Martin]

We're gonna get into this later in the episode, but I guess it's like saying, like, is the moon real? Like, kind of a ridiculous premise that you have to argue from.

[Johan Berniel]

He can't climb as good as today and Jonas. But he can climb well.

[Spencer Martin]

And I. Yeah, we're gonna get into this later. There's this. It's. I guess it's different though, right? Like, there's like, cl. There's like, prescriptive climbing and then there's guys. Like, you could wake Jonas up at 2 in the morning and say, go in the middle of the winter and ask him to climb Alpe d' Huez, and he's gonna put up a really good time. Like, it just like anywhere, anytime. Six stage. Six climbs into a stage. First climb of the stage is just always good. And there's certain riders who, like, have to dial in on the effort. I don't fully get why they're different, but question for you before we move on. Remcovenible. These are his last four major, like, standalone time trial results. 2023 World Champs wins it. 2024 Olympics wins it. 2024 World Champs wins it. 2025 World Champs wins it. If there was Olympics this year, he would win it. Like, he's that good. He wins everything. Five Grand Tour stage wins in the time trial, two in the Tour de France. Is this the best pure time trialist of all time, Johan?

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, he's definitely a pure time trialist, that's for sure. Of all time. I would say not. No, not yet at least. You know, he's still young. He's 26. No. 26.

[Spencer Martin]

He's 26. Yeah. 26, I believe. 26.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Yeah. No, he's not. I mean, of all time. Spencer. I. I don't like that term. Of all time.

[Spencer Martin]

That's another fun term you can just kind of throw out.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, you could say, for example, you can. You could go back to, for example, Jacques Ankertil. You know, he won the Tour de France five times. He was called Mr. Time Trialist. He won the Tour de France in the time trials. And he was not considered a climber, but he went. He got. He had to get over the climbs, but he made all the difference in the time trials. You could say that's probably the best time trial, that driest of all times. I don't know. But probably not. No. I mean, of all times. There's. There is no. There is only one rider. Best of all times. That's Eddie Marks. He was the best at everything of all time except sprinting. But he won a lot of riders a lot of stages in sprints. Yeah, but. Yeah, you know, but he was the best cyclist of all times. Probably won most of the time trials that he did. Maybe lost a few, but not many. But anyways, you know, you can't compare, you can't compare. Aramco is right now definitely the best time trial is of generation by far. Yeah. When, when, when does he lose? I mean he, he.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, I'll tell you exactly when he loses.

[Johan Berniel]

The two time trials he lost were the two mountainous time lost on. He lost on, on in the Pyrenees. What's the, what's the, what's the.

[Spencer Martin]

It was a Paris sword. Very good. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

He lost their niece because they did the cold days. That's also a climbing time trial. But other than that. When did he lose the time trial?

[Spencer Martin]

I'm not going to fact check this, but I think I believe it to be true. I think he lost, he actually lost that time trial on the descent of the cold as that's where he lost most of his time, not on the climb. Yeah, but you're right, that's the only time he loses it. Pure mountain time trials. I would, I would say the argument for him being the best is there's rarely do you see someone that good at flat time trialing that is also that good on any like really just like think of like a Tour de France time trial. It's just a given that Remco is going to win it. It's not even a question like even at peak Pagachar, like Pagachar just gets close and you're like wow, that's incredible. He got that close to him. I did go back and look at this. I'm just about modern, let's say post, post Lance Armstrong time trialist. So like starting in 2010, just because I can pull some of these guys off the top of my head, like I would say Tony Martin, 4 time world champ, Olympic gold medalist 1 time Fabian Cancellara, 4 time world champ, 2 time Olympic gold medalist. Those would probably be the benchmark. Like you have Michael Rogers winning three in a row. Rowan Dennis wins two world Championships, I believe. But man. So Tony Martin, how many times? Yeah, Ghana is a good example. He's won two World Championships, one Olympic medal. The thing about Ghana, so he's first in 2020, first in 2021 World Champs and then he's just been usurped by, by Remco 2023. He's second. 2024 Olympics. He's second. 2024 World Champs. He's second to Remco. Like I actually, I think Remco is probably a better time trialist in Ghana, who I would say is one of the best pure Chantres I've ever seen.

[Johan Berniel]

And then, and then, you know, continue on that. I mean it's, it's. I'm not going to say it's. I mean it's probably not a rumor. It's, it's a rumor right now, but it's gonna happen. Is that Remco has apparently also said his, his mind on our record. That's on his, on his wish list. The, the, the, our record that is now held by people Ghana. Yeah, I, I would say the hour.

[Spencer Martin]

Record for people at least of my generation. It, it, they messed it up, right? Did they like not reset it or something?

[Johan Berniel]

Well, yeah, I mean initially, initially they. So, so my recollection is Eddie merckx had was 48 something then. No, 49 something. Then the first one who beat it was Francesco Moser if I'm correct is in 1984 probably. But that was like with a completely different bike. That was like the first time we saw an aerodynamic bike with two disc wheel, a smaller front wheel, bigger back wheel, beat it in at altitude. I don't remember where it was. Then it kind of went on and the technology evolved. We had Graham Obrie who had this tucked in position on his self made bicycle. I don't know if you remember that. The Flying Scotsman.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. So Obrie, if people my age, when you're a little kid, it was like oh, Brie board man. Like that was the big.

[Johan Berniel]

So. But Obri had, Obri came. I remember I was still a cyclist. I think it was early 90s probably that Obri came and he had this very unconventional position. He was basically. His elbows were against his shoulders.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

And he had made this. So. And everybody was saying, what is this guy gonna do? And he broke the, I mean he, he broke the world record. Then his, the UCI went against him. His bike got canceled, that position got canceled. Then they came with a different position. It's called the Superman position, which was like super, super. It was like the arms were all the way out. Obri did that. Boardman did that. And then, I mean some other guys did it. Then that got banned too. Then they went back to all of us and then all of a sudden there was like a few years where they banned every single position. They went back to the traditional bike.

[Spencer Martin]

Okay.

[Johan Berniel]

Of the Eddy Marx era. Of course, more modern bikes. It had to be a traditional frame, same wheels, no disc wheels, normal handlebars, which then finally Chris Boardman broke, I think barely. And then they kind of went back to the time trial technology of nowadays. So yeah, it's a bit. It's a bit. It's kind of been up and down.

[Spencer Martin]

Like. Did Jens Voight not have the record at one point?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, exactly. Jens Voigt was one of the first guys who did the. Our record again with. So when they. When they deviated from the traditional.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, like.

[Johan Berniel]

But it was again the try the. The time trial bike.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And yeah, that's where it lost me. I don't know. It's like, what is going on here? Like Jens Wood standing up because he's in such pain on a. He's like so unused to riding a track bike and he got it then maybe Campenarts was involved at some point.

[Johan Berniel]

But I would say then Company Arts beat it then. No, Bradley Wiggins. Bradley Wiggins had it. I don't. I don't remember when I was 2014, 15 maybe.

[Spencer Martin]

That sounds right.

[Johan Berniel]

And then company did.

[Spencer Martin]

And then Ghana, I would say it did. What was pretty interesting was Ghana's like trainer was going for it. Remember this? Yeah, Ghana. And then the guy training Ghana. Yeah, that was pretty interesting.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Dan Bingham might have had it. Actually Ghana got it.

[Johan Berniel]

He broke him.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. So I would say we're cancel. Like looking back on this, what I think I'd forgotten. Canara won two Olympic gold medals. That's super impressive. And then seven Tour de Fronts, time trial wins, counting prologues, 11 Grand Tour time trial wins, counting prologue. So I would say Remco has a bit to bridge the gap there. Like couple more world titles, another Olympic gold medal, more Grand Tour stage wins. So he's a bit off on that.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, he still. He still has a few years of career left.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And the thing with time trials too is sometimes like, you know, with. With Cancellar you have like a. You get. You just do other things. It's like then you're going for one days and you're not as good at time trials anymore. So yeah, remains to be seen what happens. But I just. Going back to Remco, he was incredible. Like that was in impressive.

[Johan Berniel]

That position, man. I mean the position of Remco, it's. It's perfection. You know, it's like. I don't know what can be better.

[Spencer Martin]

No, no.

[Johan Berniel]

And you see other writers, they are. They're Getting close. But you know, and it's a matter of, I mean, I'm sure that there's nobody who works so fanatically on the time trial position, on the equipment, on the clothing, on the helmet, on everything than Ramco, even the pool. Well, he's obsessed about it. You know, it's. And it shows.

[Spencer Martin]

And someone might be listening and think, well, why doesn't everyone just, just take a picture of Remco, get in that position and ride? It's like, well, okay, we could all tuck into an aerodynamic position, but the trick is to be able to produce power at that position. Almost no one can do it like someone like Bradley Wiggins. He can put out such a massive amount of power in his time trial position, which makes you very fast at time trialing. Like not many people have the flexibility or body ability to do that. It's very hard. Before we move on, I did want to talk quickly about like, just because. So this time trial happened and you think, okay, that is the form for the World Championships road race. But there is quite a bit of time between those two events. Like, do you think their form will shift? I mean, obviously it's very different effort too. One is one hour, another one's gonna be seven hours. About.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, no, I mean, it's different. Very different. Listen, the guys, I mean, if we're talking about Remco, J. Vine, von Wilder, Von Miller and Pugach, they're all going to be good. They're all going to be good. Now I think I'm convinced that the Poga we have seen on Sunday is going to be, it's going to be a completely different guy next Sunday. You know, let's not forget Bogachar probably didn't spend hardly any time on the time trial bike. You know, we, we all know he finished the Tour de France. He was tired, he was maybe a bit sick. He was definitely completely burned out mentally. It took a while for him to recover from that and he got back into it in Canada. Let's not forget. Look, so, so Bogachar did the time trial on Sunday, a week before. He spent like four or five days in Canada. Yeah, it went straight from there then to, to Rwanda. That trip is difficult, you know, I mean, it, it, it takes out of you. So now with a week more of adaptation to the time zone to, you know, recovering from the travel, a bit of the altitude also, which is another thing, like Remco did altitude training and, and the other, the others probably, I mean, I, Von Builder probably also did a bit of Altitude training or whatever or altitude sleeping. I mean maybe they were. I, I know Remco was in, in Calpe because he has a house there. So he probably was in the, in, in the hotel that we talked about in Synchros Ferra, staying there, you know, and, and trained there. Yeah, but, but yeah, Pogachar didn't, didn't do that. So I have no doubt that Pogaccia is going to be different on, on Sunday. I still, there's a little bit of doubt in me that let's say are we going to see the, the really good Pagachar? Because I had the impression Spencer, I don't know what you think that in Canada, in Quebec and in Montreal we did not see a great Bogachar. Even when he went away, even when he you know, he gifted the race to Brandon McNulty who was his teammate who catched up, caught up with him. I didn't have the impression that this was really a top bugachar. But it's now two weeks later and I think he's going to have his game.

[Spencer Martin]

I kind of agree like first thought but are we downplaying that performance in Montreal? Like remember he used to win that race. He would eke out a sprint finish and then he would attack and win by 20 seconds. And then this year he's like I'm just gonna have my team ride real hard on the front. I'm gonna burn everybody off them and ride away.

[Johan Berniel]

The team was impressive.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it's not, it was not easy to do what he did. Like he, they for ride that field and he, he was able to withstand the effort. But I emotionally I do kind of agree with you. I don't feel like we're seeing the best. I think we could see a better, better road race because of it. Like we should all be excited that he's not.

[Johan Berniel]

I think we have to have in mind this, that like okay, you know, Pogachas, he's not gonna win know it's like okay, he's of course he's the big favorite but so many things can happen and it's, it's, it's, it's a one day race, you know and that's, it's the form of the day and everything needs to be perfect and it's still, I mean Pugach is still, I mean he's human. I mean he's not, he's not invincible.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean how many people win the Tour de France and the world Championships in the same year? It's not a Common thing to be done. No, you know, like there's a reason it. Like I'm just now looking the last time it happened before. So Picacho did it last year and then it hadn't happened since then. Since Stephen Roach. Stephen Roach in 87 or Greg Lamont in 89 did he won the Tour. So yeah, it's not like a thing that happens every. Every year. Before we get into our predictions, our official predictions, just quick touching on the. The junior men's road race stuck out to me because. Sorry, Junior men's hasn't happened yet. The time trial, Ashland Barry gets second. So Miko Morris from the Netherlands. I'd never heard of this person. Obviously very good because he wins. Ashlin Barry gets second and then another American, Beckham Drake gets fourth. And I was just before recording, I was looking this kid up, Daniel Benson somehow got an interview with him since the race finished yesterday and today. Pretty impressive. And apparently he races for like his local team, like his local bike shop in Amarillo, Texas.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, maybe. But he must have shown definitely something, otherwise he would not be selected for the World Championships. Right?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he was at the Tour. It's Tour de la. It's a very hard to pronounce word for me. It's a stage race in Canada. It's like the Tour de l' Avenue of North America. And it's like the best young riders in North America. So if you get fifth there overall.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, Spencer, if you also say you never heard of. Is it Michael. Michael Morris. Michael Morris. Yep.

[Spencer Martin]

Mikhail, like M, I, C H, I, E, L. Michel.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. Number one and two of the time trial. We're also number one and two in Paris Juniors, for example.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh yeah. So which is funny because really good.

[Johan Berniel]

Like a really good rider, this guy.

[Spencer Martin]

It's funny. Perry. Roubaix Juniors ends up always being. It's like top time trialists win it probably because they just. With the rough surface, they just ride away from everybody. But super impressive American finishes there. We. We did our research or journalistic research. So USA Cycling, we said they weren't paying for riders to go over. I do believe that probably these two guys we're talking about pay their own way because we know juniors that pay their own way. But we did talk to at least one senior rider who they bought a coach ticket for. And then that person could choose to upgrade that ticket.

[Johan Berniel]

I think, I think the, the professionals, they get. They get their travel taken care of and if they want to upgrade, which I'm pretty sure that they all do because It's a hell of a trip. Then that's, that's on their, that's on their, on their money.

[Spencer Martin]

They stole the WEDO travel policy there. I don't know who got our communications, but I'm gonna start citing that. But someone also messaged me that they, Their revenue is down. USA Cycling's revenue was down $10 million last year versus the year before. So there could be some. That's what. I should have fact checked this, but this is what this person. 10 million less, which is a lot.

[Johan Berniel]

So how much is the total?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, they do have a good little business down there in Colorado Springs because there's a lot of people that have licenses, and they take a big chunk of that and then they basically sell insurance to every USA Cycling race. And so they get like, I'm just making this number up. Like, $7 of every registration for every race in the country goes to USA Cycling. So.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, so obviously it's a small country, but it's a big cycling country. But Belgium, which is a big federation, I'm pretty sure their total budget is less than 10 million.

[Spencer Martin]

Really?

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Crazy. Wait, wait. This might not be right.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, it seems a bit.

[Spencer Martin]

This, I wonder if this person messed up a zero because it was a million less.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. Oh, great. It's a nonprofit, so it has to. Well, this doesn't look that good. So their revenue was quite a bit less than their expenses in 2024, according to ProPublica. So that's not great. That could explain why they're being a little stingy on, on the, on the tickets. But we just wanted to say that we do know someone that got paid, that got their ticket paid to fly there. And then the mixed relay today. I, I, I don't. Does not connect with me. Like, what? Is there any we should say who won? I guess Australia wins. France second, Switzerland third. This is men's and women's combined. Is there any way to, like, spruce this event up? Because currently, like, it seems like the men go, they do the course as soon as they finish, but in a separate location. The women start. Do the course, and then you add the times together.

[Johan Berniel]

Why does this event even exist, Spencer? I mean, it's like, I don't, I don't get it. It's okay. You know, there's, there's a few big cycling countries, you know, so. Australia, France.

[Spencer Martin]

Who was that?

[Johan Berniel]

Switzerland was third.

[Spencer Martin]

Switzerland.

[Johan Berniel]

Switzerland would have won, by the way, without Marlene Roycer having a mechanical. Anyway, Australia wins second year in a row. But it's like. I mean, it's so unnatural. I don't. I don't. I don't get it. Three riders. I mean, you can see. I mean, look at the participants, Spencer. The big guys just don't want to ride it because, I mean, obviously it's in between the time trial and the roadmap. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. It's. It feels so artificial to me. You know, like, you should do a team time trial. Like, you know, whatever. Four riders, five riders per country, like before. I mean, obviously, you know, that's completely unthinkable now, but back in the days, There was the 100 kilometer team time trial with four riders, which was World Championships and Olympic Games. That was the team time trial. That was like an unbelievable event. 100km.

[Spencer Martin]

I guess you run and start running into the same problems, right? Because then what top writer would do that?

[Johan Berniel]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Spencer Martin]

I assume they do this because it divides. It's 54 minutes was the winner. So you're only doing half of that. So you could. Like, you can. Because some of the writers were pretty good, like Michael Matthews, Luke Blab, Amanda Spratt, like, that's on Australia and like, Switzerland is Stefan Kuhn and Marlon Royce. You are. Yeah, yeah, it is. But I guess before this, the reason they do this is they used to do a team time trial for trade teams, which makes no sense whatsoever. And that's actually almost made it to the 2016 world champ. We were trying to get our team into the. Because you could, like, you can, if you're the host nation, you, like, get more allotments. So we were trying to get our team into the World Championships to be in the team time trial, but that didn't make any sense. Like, why are these trade teams competing in an event that's for world teams? Like, I never fully understood that.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, today I. Today I saw something, Spencer, which, you know, I mean, and. And everybody knows you know it, but most of our audience knows also how much I love the UCI and their president, Dafit La Partian, which, you know, I mean, we could do a whole podcast about, you know, why are the World Championships in Rwanda, which is a whole different discussion. And, you know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of criticism about that, about the World Championships being held there for different. A lot of different reasons. But anyways. But, man, I saw the. This is. This is. I mean, La Partina should be ashamed to let this happen. There was a team in there. So it's called the UCI.

[Spencer Martin]

It's the cycling center. Yes, UCI cycling, basically world Cycling Center.

[Johan Berniel]

It supports countries of non traditional cycling, you know, and it's. There's, there's Africans or Asians. There's. There was a team. I mean this is the, the team of the UCI and there were riders in there who didn't even have a time trial bike. I mean, how can you let that happen? I mean, it's your team.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean Laportia, I think, I think he's probably in the best five star hotel in, in. In Kigali. You know, two nights of. One and two nights is two nights of staying at the hotel. That's. That's a time trial bike.

[Spencer Martin]

You know, I heard he's maybe he's not made a public appearance, I believe.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He gave. Okay. Was it. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And then he tweeted the wrong.

[Johan Berniel]

He.

[Spencer Martin]

He congratulated.

[Johan Berniel]

Scheduled tweet right at the text. Prepared.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

He said congratulations to Marlene Roycer and Tadepo Gachar for winning the time trial. And I think, I guess he forgot to change. To change it. Anyways.

[Spencer Martin]

He didn't listen to outcomes. He didn't listen to your pick. That's for sure. Had it right. If he had someone, someone asked a question. We won't answer it today, we'll do it next week. But it's like, does the UCI ever made a good decision? I'm. I'm actually sure they have, but we'll have to do our research to dig into that.

[Johan Berniel]

But they make a lot of bad decisions too. A lot of bad decisions.

[Spencer Martin]

Did Binyomin Grimai come through the World Cycling Center? I believe he did. Right?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. So there are.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

That is. I find that weird that they weren't on TT bikes because.

[Johan Berniel]

No, some of them. But I mean, as the UCI, you have to have your whole team on the same bikes, man. I mean, what is this? It's like this ridiculous. It's the. It's your event, it's your team and your riders are not on time trial bikes.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it's strange. I didn't, I didn't understand that. Yeah, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Guys, wouldn't you like to look up a little bit younger, get a few more compliments on your skin, or just feel more confident when you look in the mirror? That's exactly what Caldera Lab is here for. Their high performance skin care is designed specifically for men. Simple, effective and backed by science. Caldera Lab has many products but three of the ones that stand out to me are the good it's an award winning serum with 27 active botanicals and 3.4 million anti antioxidal units per drop to protect from environmental stressors. Use enough of this, you'll start looking like George H. Cappy in no time. I know that sounds absurd, but it will help. And they also have the base layer, a nutrient rich moisturizer with plant stem cells and snow mushroom extract for deep hydration, fast absorption and no greasy shine. Use it on your face. Also use it on your legs after you shave. Highly recommend it. And they have the eye serum which reduces the look of tired eyes, dark circles and puffiness so you look well rested even when you're not. This is key when you're a podcaster waking up early to watch those early morning European races. Caldera Go check out Caldera Lab and see the difference for yourself. Go to calderalab.com themove and use code THEMOVE at checkout for 20 off your first order. Again calderalab.com THEMOVE everybody. This episode is brought to you by Manukora Honey. Are you looking for something simple and delicious to add to your wellness routine? Well, look no further because Manukura Honey will change your life. I used to throw regular honey into everything tea, breakfast bowls, protein shakes, even salad dressings. But then I discovered Manukura and honestly, it puts all other honey to shame. It's rich, creamy and has a deep, complex flavor that makes you want to eat it straight off the spoon, which I've been known to do early in the morning, wake up, come out, come down to watch the races. Boom. I'm just grabbing Manukura straight from the spoon. The kids love it too, so we're all adding it into our morning routine. And what sets Manukura apart is what's inside. It's backed with powerful nutrients that support immunity and gut health thanks to the bioactive rich nectar the bees collect from the Manuka tea tree in New Zealand. It even contains unique antibacterial compound called mgo. And every harvest is third party tested so you know it's you know exactly what you're getting. This is honey with superpowers, ethically produced, wildly delicious and a real upgrade from your average sweetener. And you're luck because it's easier than ever to try Manukura Honey. Just head to manukora.com themove and save up to 31/25 with the free gifts with the starter kit which comes with an MGO850 + Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon and a guidebook. That's manukora.com the move to save 31 +25 with the free gifts everybody. This episode is brought to you by Rujit Golong. If you watched the time trial last weekend, you probably noticed Remco Evanopol had something that, that a lot of us don't. And that's pure confidence. The dude was flying. And that is the exact type of confidence you need in the bedroom to take things to the next level type of experience. And that's where Rugiat's go Long comes in. This isn't just another ED pill, it's a confidence game changer. Golong combines two doctor trusted medications and one dual action formula to help you go the distance. Plus effects last for up to 36 hours. Which means you can feel confident all day and night in some of the next day too. Getting started is simple. Connect with a board certified doctor 100% online at rugiatrug I-E-T.com and if prescribed your treatment ships discreetly indirectly to your door. So if you're ready to level up your confidence in the bedroom, I'll save you money. Head to rugiat.com r u G-I-E-T.com themove and use code the move at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's ruit.com the move and make sure to use our promo code to save money. All right, back to the show. So moving on to the the. The Sunday's race, the world's men's road race championship. The distance 268 kilometers and the, the. The race is comprised of. There are nine laps like in the city Kigali. So if been watching the race you kind of know Kigali at this point. Then they do one big loop out in the country. They do a longer climb. It's like 6k long at 7% so it's a serious climb. Then they come back in and do six more laps of that circuit. The circuit racing quite hard. I'm curious to see how that longer lap is going to play into things. I don't think I. Johan, have you seen this before where they do. They do the circuit, they leave the circuit and come back to the circuit. Usually they do a bigger loop and then come into the circuit.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, it's a bit strange. It's a bit strange but yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And the, the steepest climb, sustained climb. It's like just under a kilometer 8% and they do that multiple times. So that's going to be quite difficult. And then it's a total cumulative. We, we found different sources on this. I'm going with the most conservative one. 5,500 meters of climbing, which is a lot like, I mean I, I couldn't even find examples of many races ever having that much. You know, one day. That's 18,000ft.

[Johan Berniel]

2018 in Innsbruck.

[Spencer Martin]

No.

[Johan Berniel]

Won by Valverde.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. Which was four man sprint. That was 5,000 meters of climbing. So this is 500 more meters of climbing. But that was a very hard race.

[Johan Berniel]

That was already very hard. Yeah. So no, it's, it's going to be on top of that, Spencer. You know, it's super hard. There's cobbles, one of those. So the 1.3 kilometer climb, the last. And it's. Which, the one we, when we saw, you know, in the time trial, it's cobble. So it's very, very hard. And then also something not to be underestimated, it's at 1500 meters altitude.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean it's not 2000 meters, but you feel it. You know, it definitely has an impact on, on the riders and their energy and their performance.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean I live at SO15. I live at like 1800 meters of altitude. And I mean you get better. I don't. I feel like I'm ne. I'm. I've. I never fully acclimate. So there are certain people that like are just better at higher altitude than others. So a lot of climbing, I mean here for example, like if you stacked up all the monuments this year with the world championships. The World Championships 5500 meters. The next closest one is Lombardia. 4700 meters. Liege, best on the age. Think how hard that is. 4400 meters and then Flanders just a little over 2000. I don't even know if that's right. Can that be right? San Rainbow over 2000. Perube 1500. So significantly harder than any other one day race. This year the favorites are. This is on Unibet. It's the only book I could find with the favorites up yet. Pigachar minus 203. Evanopole plus 333. So for Picachar, at least on this book, you would have to bet $208 to profit $100. So the heavy favorite, Isaac Del Toro plus 900. Tom Pickock plus 1500. Mateusz Galmos at plus 2200. Ben Healy plus 2500. Richard Carapaz plus 2500. There's a lot of people on here, but we'll call him out when we need to. But Johan, how do you think this plays out? And we should also. This is raced with national teams, not trade teams, which really changes things. And some of the national teams have a lot of riders. Like, I believe Slovenia has nine riders along with a few of the other, like, top designations that score the best throughout the year. Some teams have fewer riders. Like the US has five riders, so not every in Mexico has three. So not everyone's fighting on the same level playing field. It's there I find the world's to be the strangest race of the year. That's why it's so fun. But how do you think this plays out and who's going to win?

[Johan Berniel]

It's going to be a elimination race. Spencer. You know, it's 5,500 meters. Yeah. I mean, different, different racing. You know, as we said, national teams. Okay. Slovenia, they do have nine riders, but there's. There's some guys that they will struggle how it plays out. I mean, it's. The strongest guy is going to win. There's no doubt about that. I know already that you're gonna pick.

[Spencer Martin]

Pick.

[Johan Berniel]

Who are you gonna pick? So I, I have to pick someone else and I'll go, you know, I'll keep my Belgian hat on and pick Remco Evenepoel to win because I think from. Of, of everybody, he's probably the freshest. Comes off, you know, an incredible motivation boost with the time trial. And this is something that these kind of climbs, it's. It's okay for him. You know, it's not. You have to be. You don't have to be a super climber. You have to be able to climb. But these are not like long mountains. So I think with the power he has, he looks, he looks really powerful. And I don't know if he was in the gym or what. He looks powerful. So. And he looks fresh also, in my opinion. He. He looks like. That's. I mean, and that's why I say, you know, I know Pugachar. There's going to be a change in Pugachar over this week. But to me, if you look at both of the riders not, not even going off their performance, but if you look at them on the day of the time trial, it's like Pogacha was a bit okay, you know, probably tired, doesn't look super fresh. And Remco looked like ready to go to war. As I said, this will change over this week, but I'm Going to pick Remco to win at plus 330.

[Spencer Martin]

I, I mean I even noticed like Pugacha was adjusting his helmet mid time trial, which you would never see Rimco do. I mean that was, that doesn't make you confident when you're watching a man adjust his time. Like that brought me back to Primus Raglich 2022 to France. If you were going to pick Remco, you would do it because you would say he's in great shape, he's prepared specifically for this and he's fresh and when he's fresh he can do things that not many people in the world can do. Like think. I think it was like San Sebastian the year he won the Vuelta. So that would have been 22. He was amazing. He shows up to the Vuelta. Like his body just like looks, it pops off the screen. Like he just. There's a certain look to Remco's body that like you don't see with the other riders when he's really fit and he has that look right now I would say what do we make of this like the Olympics road race last year if you set that aside, which I know that's a big thing to set aside. He's not like what is going on with this slump in one day races. So like really good from 2021 to 2023 and then since then like you know, and hasn't won a monument. Not just has. Has just the game changed or what is going on with the one day racing.

[Johan Berniel]

Mini, let's not forget, I mean one thing, but actually two events. Huge crash in the Basque country last year in 2024.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Took a very long time to come back from it. So he missed the whole spring campaign and then in the off season again that accident, you know, which apparently the consequences are a lot worse than we thought. And he basically, you know, he didn't miss the spring, but he started really late. Right. I mean he won his first race in Flesh Bra Son and that did second in the armst.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. What's weird about that is he comes in at de bronze appeal and looks like I just said, right, like oh wow, this is unbelievable. And then like degraded through that spring and was not quite as good at Amstel, not as good at Liege.

[Johan Berniel]

I don't think he had a great base. You know, he, he trained very intense as soon as he got the green light and got quickly in shape, but he didn't have the foundation. That's also why I think he didn't. He underperformed in the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. Like if you, if you're underperforming at Liege, it makes sense that because you don't have the base and it's hard to make that up by the Tour. I'm going to pick Pagachar for one simple reason. Because if you sort Tadpagachar by in one day races over 4000 vertical meters, he has not lost one of those races that he's finished. He crashed out of Liege in 2023. But outside of that, the only, the last time he lost a race over 4000 meters of one day race was 2022. That was the World Championships in Australia. Got beat by Rimco Evanopole. So maybe, maybe this is the repeat of that. But if you do the same thing with Remco Evanopolis, you see that the last time he won one of those races was 2023 San Sebastian, then 2023 Liege, 2022 World Championships just for that simple reason. And if you even filter above that at 4,500. Remco has never won a one day race with that much climbing. Pagatra has never. The last time he lost a one day race with that much climbing was 2021 at the Olympic Games when he got third. He's undefeated since then. So this Gu races with this much climbing.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's as simple as that. I think he's going to win because it's got a lot of climbing and he's the strongest and things. The harder the race gets, the less everything else matters. And he's got a pretty strong team.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. The question is Spencer, you know, how is he going to. I mean I, I agree he's definitely the big favorite and those numbers are there for a reason right now. Do we think, do we think he's gonna attack already on Mount Kigali, which is finish.

[Spencer Martin]

That's a very long way from the Finish. It is 162km into the race. So it's 100k from the finish. I don't know if he did it last year as you said. I don't know if we're seeing that same level of picacho as we saw at Zurich. That was.

[Johan Berniel]

I think, I think there's gonna be. Listen, the race is gonna split apart. I mean he's going to blow apart on that climb. It's, you know, it's 6 kilometers, 7% after having done already nine of those laps. The heat, the altitude. I think what's going to happen probably is that there's going to be a selection bogartsha will want a selection because he doesn't want to. He wants to have the big, the, the main guys with him. So it's a man, a man against man race. So, you know, I mean, if all the good guys will be there, that's going to be the selection that he wants to make. Now, it's tricky because some of these other writers, his other favorites, may have teammates with them. And Pogachar, I mean, logically, if that happens, he would normally only have Primo's rogue with him.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. I, I don't even want to. I don't know if Primos is going to be there. In theory, yes. What, what happens if he gets away with Rimco on that climb? What, do they work with each other? What do they do?

[Johan Berniel]

I think Remco will work for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. To me, that would kind of be the way he wins.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, there's other riders. Who's going to be there. Del Toro, you have Skill Moles, you have Ben Healy, you have Pitcock. I mean, they're. He's not getting away with Remco and, and everybody else. I mean, no, there's going to be a selection of more riders and we.

[Spencer Martin]

Should say the reason we're not pumping up bizarre Del Toro, even with that tt result and even though I think he is an incredible writer, I mean, how many races has he ever even done in his career of this length? It can't be many, right?

[Johan Berniel]

I don't know. We have to look at the monuments. There's nothing else. How many monuments has he done? Not many.

[Spencer Martin]

Milano, San Remo. He actually did pretty good. 13th place and then that might be it. I don't believe he's done another monument unless he did one. I think that is it. He did Strada Bianchi, 215km. That was in his first year pro, though. DNF'd. It just. It starts to get tough. And the same thing with wild Cards. It starts to get really tough at this distance with this much climbing. But let's. It's a weird race. It's a. It's a super weird race. There's a reason, like, we're in awe of Peter Sagan for winning three world Championships, because every race is physically different. Every race is different from, you know, you've had the whole season in front of you. Like, it's. You're never facing the same type of competition twice. You never have the same team twice. It's very rare even to win backto back world titles. Let's say something weird. Happens the world championships weirdness rears its head again. Who do you think could win that's not these two riders.

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, very simple for me. Tom Pitcock.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes.

[Johan Berniel]

He's, you know, a guy, super high pedigree, super talented, in great shape. Just finished third at the Vuelta. That form still is going to be there and he has rested between the Vuelta and this race. Only does the road race and I think he's gonna, he's gonna be ready. He definitely mean, listen, he can, he can do the distance. He's shown it already, you know, he won Amstel, I guess.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, he won, he has won Amstel at some point.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he, he even thinks he wants it. He won it twice. He, Pitcock thinks he wants it twice. He won it twice.

[Spencer Martin]

He might be right on that actually.

[Johan Berniel]

I think he is right. But yeah, Tom Pidcock plus 1500. I think that's, that's really good odds for a wild card.

[Spencer Martin]

I, I can't, honestly can't believe he's plus 1500. Because if you watch that Vuelta, I guess I just said maybe the vault, it wasn't the best preparation because it's not at altitude. But this isn't the time trial. These guys have been here, they're preparing. This isn't just the first day you show up, you're racing. I, I'm shocked. He's plus 1500. I think with how, with how light he looked and how powerful he looked. On a course like this where you have two guys looking at each other but got your inevitable. It's wide open for Tom Pidcock. I think that's a great pick. If I was going to pick someone that wasn't him, the people I would look at three riders. I would look at Mateusz Galmoza, Ben Healy, Richard Carapaz. The rider I'm going to pick is Mateusz Gamoza. Plus 2200. I think Ben Healy. I don't want to. I think Ben Healy could win like this is the type of race he could win on because he can get a front in front of the moves. But I'm picking Skelmosa because what's the last time we saw a real duel between Bogachar and even a pole in a one day race? Amstel Gold. Who won that? Mateusz Skelmoza. Because Pagatja and Evanopole were so obsessed with each other they forgot there was a guy sitting in their wheel and he sprinted around them and won. So. And he's looking really Good. Right now he was at. He was at. In Durango in Colorado, at altitude before this. So he's a little bit prepared for that. I'm going scumos at plus 2200 and.

[Johan Berniel]

Just finished second tour of Luxembourg 1. 1 of. 1 of the hardest stages there.

[Spencer Martin]

So.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, in good shape.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. And so, yeah, I think this is. I'm actually surprised Pitcock and Skimoza are this like, cheap because it's like, yes, Bogacho and Evan Pole are the favorites, but this isn't a Grand Tour. This is a one day race with some climbs. They're both pretty good at races like that. I think that's like, this is the real value as Pidcock and Shkamoza.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. Good team. Also the Danish.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, good team. Missing. You could. You could think of one rider who this course would suit, who's not here.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, but the Danes, usually, they always ride really well as a team.

[Spencer Martin]

They do ride really well. Yeah. I mean, it would. It wouldn't. I'm even thinking about just like Denmark and last in the last few World Championships. Like, think about like Mads Pedersen, like just showed up in 2019 and won. And like, who saw that coming? But the team does race together really well. I'm looking at the start list right now. It is extremely strong. I'm sure they'll all be behind Skomoza. Like, no ambiguity around that same. What. What do you think about Belgium and Slovenia, do you think inside the camps there's clear delineations of leader versus everybody else?

[Johan Berniel]

Belgium is. Remco is the.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

You know, Von Wilder wild card. Right. But everybody else is at the service of the team. And in Slovenia it's nobody else. I mean, we'll see.

[Spencer Martin]

What.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean. Primos. It's still Primos, right? I don't think he raced since the Tour. No.

[Spencer Martin]

He might have done one race. What did he do? He did San Sebastian very quietly.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But hey, listen. Never know with Primos. You know, he's. He's a quality rider, but I think. I think normally he will be at the service of. Of Pugacha.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, what's wild is Slovenia has more riders in this race than Belgium. Who would have thought that would ever happen?

[Johan Berniel]

Well, I mean, it's eight riders. Plus if you have the. If you have the defending champion, you can bring in.

[Spencer Martin]

You get to bring like an extra one. Yeah, yeah. What do you think about just before we leave? We don't have to pick them one. Like, how do you think Juana, USO is going to do here. A lot, kind of a lot of noise around him coming into the race. But do you think he's well prepared? If he wasn't prepared for the Volta, it seems hard to think he would be prepared for this.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it could be, it could be okay. But I, I listen, we've never seen anything from a you. So in these kind of races and especially that distance, you know, he's not, he's won one day races, but, but not of this distance. So yeah, he's gonna be, he's gonna be a factor, I think. But I, I can't see him winning.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, yeah, he's won one day races, but nowhere near this. No caliber, caliber either. Like this is quite a bit different than the drum. Classy.

[Johan Berniel]

The guy that really has had an amazing, amazing performances leading up to this, to this World championships is Del Toro. Yeah. If you look at his campaign in Italy, I mean, did he win four out of five? Four. Four out of five races or five? I don't know.

[Spencer Martin]

And he almost never loses races. Like, almost like since that zero, which you would think would devastate most people.

[Johan Berniel]

Won like four in a row, I think.

[Spencer Martin]

I'm trying to find the start list so I can click on him. It might be more than that, actually. He's like, he's been on an unbelievable tear. Okay, here he is. So he won. Oh, nope. He won three in a row. 31st at Memorial Marco Pentani, which is a flat finish. And then, but was not a sprint. And then wins the one after that. So 14 of 5.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

That's his last five races.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. So he's, he's in incredible shape. He's super talent, you know.

[Spencer Martin]

Super talent. Yeah. I mean, I would say first he's.

[Johan Berniel]

Not gonna have any team support. That's, you know, so he's, he's by himself. I mean, he's asked two riders, but I don't think those riders can do much for him. So he's gonna have to pick his, his moves.

[Spencer Martin]

You know how old he's 20. Del Toro's 21. How old was Mads Pedersen when he won his first world title? Must have been around that age, right?

[Johan Berniel]

22, I think. 22, 23.

[Spencer Martin]

Because if he. Well, he's actually older than I thought. Well, he's born in 95, so then. Yeah. Wait, was he like a teenager when he won the world championships?

[Johan Berniel]

No, he was, he would have been 24. Was 20. 19.

[Spencer Martin]

No, 2000. So if he was born in 95.

[Johan Berniel]

He would.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Be 30 in 20, 25 or later this year.

[Johan Berniel]

So.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, he would have been like on the early side of 20, 24, 20, like maybe 23 though, I guess, because his birthday is late in the year. So. Yeah. Two years older than Del Toro.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

But he's a guy that like, was good. And then you're like, well, he's not going to win a World Championships. And then he did win a world Championship, so it is possible that it happens. I just wouldn't bet the house on del Toro winning.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And everyone should game responsibly game, please. I don't want people losing their life savings on Pagans, you know.

[Johan Berniel]

You know who we didn't talk about at all is. I mean, do not. I mean, he's had his best days are behind him, but still. Juliana Philippe.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Johan Berniel]

He was, you know, he's in good form. He's in good form.

[Spencer Martin]

He won in Quebec, but then. Did you see him at Montreal?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

That to me looks like he's such a talented. He's so class that like he can pull a Quebec out. But it's like. Does he. You know, it's like LeBron James at this point. It's like, yeah, he can play like seven amazing games, but he can't play like 100amazing games a year.

[Johan Berniel]

168Km on that course, there is no hiding, you know, there's no surprises.

[Spencer Martin]

I'm now looking at his season, though. It's actually a little bit better than I remember it being. That would be quite the surprise if he wins. I don't know if I would put money on it, but yeah, he's actually been pretty good this year. If you just look at, if you showed me an anonymized sheet of his results for the year, I'd say this guy's pretty good and he's on a second division team. He must be amazing. But yeah, I don't think he's going to win. But, but I, but as you say, to go back to the, the, the major climb in the middle of the race, it will be interesting to see who gets over that climb in the front group and who's in front at the time and if they've already caught the breakaway by then. So I think it's going to be super interesting with the circuit. Short circuit, long circuit, short circuit mixture could make this a really interesting race.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, thanks, Johan. Anything else on the race before I'm, I'm off?

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, I need to pack my suitcase still. I'm going on a little bike.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Tomorrow we got to get you to the to the to Nice. So you can watch this race with a former world champion himself. Yeah. Well, good luck packing. Have have a good sleep and then good travel tomorrow.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay. Thank you. Sa.