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- [01:01]
Spencer Martin
than Felix Gall being 13 seconds back. Jonas Vinegard winning his first career at Giro d' Italia stage. Getting the sweep of stage wins in the Vuelta Tour. In the Giro, the big story is Jai Hindley beating his teammate Palazzari getting fourth 105 back. Probably a little too eager to follow, but Johan, what was your takeaway of today's stage?
- [01:20]
Johan Bernio
Well, Spencer, you, you said it all perfectly. I think the takeaway, I mean, we, we were expecting a victory stage victory of Jonas Wingergaard today that happened, he attacked more or less where it was to be expected on the hardest part of the climb. For me, what really stands out is the performance of Felix Gallo. You know, it's probably not going to matter in the end, but for me it's nice to see that after the first big mountaintop finish and a really hard climb, the race is not over. The race is not, you know, it's not decided.
- [02:01]
Spencer Martin
Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernio. We are breaking down stage seven of the Giro D'. Italia. A monster 244 kilometer long stage tube blockhouse won by, you guessed it, Jonas Finnegard. Brutal summit finish, 13 kilometer, 13 and a half kilometers long, 8 and a half percent average. Vinegar sets the climbing record, beats Nairo Quintana's time by, I believe by over a minute. Felix Gaul surprisingly comes in second, 13 seconds back. Jai Henley a minute and two seconds back. In third, Julio Pelizari as Red Bull teammate in 105, Ben Connor. With them, Matthias Rondell, the French rider on Tudor at 129. Julio Ciccone, confusingly in seventh. We'll talk about why is he going for GC when tomorrow's a perfect sprint breakaway stage for him at 140. Just to give people a quick primer of what happened before Johan and I break it down the the stage starts. It's extremely long. It took them six hours and I was surprised that it only took that. I thought it would take longer. But a breakaway goes pretty much uncontested with Jonathan Milan trying to pick up intermediate sprint points. Nicholas zukowski on Q, Q 36.5 JY Christian Vander Le on EF, Tim Naberman on Picnic Postel Diego, Pablo Sevill, PTI Visit Malta, get up the road. They get a gap of around six minutes. Bahrain and Visma are controlling the gap. Bahrain, they have the race lead. But I was surprised at how eager they were to control it, especially since no one in the breakaway was threatening their leader's jersey. The gap, by the time they get to the base of the climb is down to 238. They quit. Red Bull goes to the front, not Visma. So right there, kind of interesting, strange. Red Bull's on the front for 4ish kilometers. Victor Campinart from Visma's dropped key support rider. That's interesting. Davide Piganzoli from Visma takes over with 9k to go. Piganzoli, he pulls for 3km. Pretty impressive. And then we have Sepkus who pulls for about 900 meters. Jonas Vinegard attacks with 5.4 kilometers to go, followed by Pelizarri and Felix Gall. Felix Gall drops back, is dropped, unclear. About a couple hundred meters later, Pelizari follows him. G after a. A kilometer after vinegard's attack is 17 seconds back. A kilometer later, he's 25 seconds back from Vindegaard. But Pelizar, he's been dropped. Gaul sprints by Pelizar. A pretty savvy move from him. And then in the last 4K, kind of an unusual thing we saw. Jonas Vindergaard continues to press on, but is losing time to the chasing goal. So by the time he finishes, he is 13 seconds in front of Felix Gall, who is right, like right behind him, like he can see him right there. Meaning Vinegard lost 12 seconds in the last 4km to the Austrian rider. I would say the big the other than Felix G being 13 seconds back. Jonas Vaard winning his first career Giro d' Italia stage. Getting the sweep of stage wins in the VTA tour. In the Giro, the big story is Jai Hinley beating his teammate Pelizar, getting fourth, 105 back. Probably a little too eager to follow. But, Johan, what was your takeaway of today's stage?
- [05:08]
Johan Bernio
Well, Spencer, you. You said it all perfectly. I think the takeaway, I mean, we. We were expecting a victory stage victory of Jonas Vingegaard. Today that happened. He attacked more or less where it was to be expected on the hardest part of the climb. For me, what really stands out is the. The performance of Felix Gal. You know, it's not gonna. It's probably not gonna matter in the end, but for me, it's nice to see that after the first big mountaintop finish and a really hard climb, the race is not over. The race is not, you know, it's not decided, although it might be decided. But, you know, Felix Gall is in the game. You know, I think it's very, very promising that he took his own pace, made up some time against Jonas. To me, that means that either Jonas was stagnating a little bit or both. Felix Gal is in amazing shape. I think it's both. Great performance from Felix Gall. To be up there and to be coming back on the second best stage racer in the world. That's pretty impressive. And so, yeah, to me, golf's performance was really the fact of the day. You could say, well, you know, it's. The race is still open. I don't think so, because Gall is not a good time trialist. He may lose. It's. What is it? 41 km, 42 km. The time trial. Yeah.
- [06:46]
Spencer Martin
Bad luck for Phyllis Gall that they decided randomly to throw like an old school time trial in this race.
- [06:51]
Johan Bernio
That's, you know, conservatively, that may be two minutes, right, for Felix go against Jonas. But still, the race is not over. You know, in other circumstances, we could say, well, Jonas just blows everybody away and wins this with two and a half minutes on the second rider, which could have been a possibility, but. And even Pizzari, you know, Pizzari, he. I think he made the mistake of trying to follow Jonas. He actually admitted that afterwards in his interview also that that was a mistake. He learned from that he's now going to focus on the podium, which may make it interesting. The fact is that I think from now on, probably Gull is going to try to follow Jonas with newfound motivation to be so close. But yeah, it's still open. It's still tight. If you look at the GC, what is Jonas is what, 13 second separated from Fredex gal. No, in the GC
- [08:00]
Spencer Martin
slightly more. Right. Because of the time. 17 seconds because he got the bunker bonus differential.
- [08:06]
Johan Bernio
Listen, after the first mountain stage, if. If the second real GC rider is only 17 seconds down, that's. That's a win for everybody, for the fans especially. And yeah, I like that.
- [08:22]
Spencer Martin
I like that super hard mountain stage. By the way, we also should mention Alonso Ulario, our race leader retained his race lead by 3 minutes and 17 seconds. Getting dangerously close to. To defending that in that stage in time trial. Who knows he could hold him off by three minutes. You said that. Oh, couple. Couple things to. To catch up on here. So with 4K to go, the chase group was 52 seconds back. So. No, no, sorry, 57 seconds back. So that's like Henley and Pelizarry or not really Pelizarry, Henley and others. It would later become Henley and Pelizarry. And who else was with them? BEN O'. CONNOR. And then at the finish, Henley is 102 down. Pelizarri is 105 down. O' Connor is 105 down. So that would tell you that Vinegar was not pulling out a ton of time against them over the last 4k as Felix G was pulling him back. Felix Gall. I don't want to spoil this race for anyone. He's probably not going to win the race, right. Against Jonas Vinegard. But today was a big. You said it didn't matter. But it matters for the podium because he gets time on Henley, Pelizarry, o', Connor, all those guys, maybe, except Jai Henley are a better time trialist than him. But now he's in the mix. Like this guy could finish second or third overall if he can get through that time trial. So it was a big step for him in terms of finishing top three, which. What do you always say, like, let's not talk about stages, let's talk about stage. Like if you want to win a Grand Tour, let's talk about the podium first. So I think that would be a big step for Felix Gall.
- [09:52]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, yeah. He's never finished. He's finished fifth in the Tour. Right. Fifth or fourth. Yeah, fifth.
- [09:59]
Spencer Martin
Fifth last year in the Tour. Yeah. Very good.
- [10:01]
Johan Bernio
So, you know, it's kind of, you know, logical that he should be considered, you know, a podium candidate. If you look, I mean, Belizari has never been on the podium of a Grand Tour. I mean, he's young. Of course. Who else is up there.
- [10:19]
Spencer Martin
Come on, Pelizari. What? You're a bum. Never finished on a podium.
- [10:24]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, I mean, it's only his third
- [10:25]
Spencer Martin
year pro and he did finish top six twice in two Grand Tours last year.
- [10:30]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so, yeah, I mean, I think. I think. And then I'm curious to see Jay Hindley, how he's involved.
- [10:38]
Spencer Martin
I thought that was super interesting.
- [10:40]
Johan Bernio
It's a rider, you know, he comes into a Grand Tour, doesn't make much noise, but hey, first big appointment, he's there, you know, So I think they're. They're both probably on equal. On equal grounds now. Pilizzi and Jay Hindley in terms of their chances for the podium. Although Red Bull may and will probably back Belize rather than Hindley, because first of all, he's an Italian. He's young. He was the designated leader. And then also I've seen rumors that Jay Hindley may be on his way out in Red Bull to another team.
- [11:18]
Spencer Martin
I think that's probably for the best. I mean, it's a little too crowded
- [11:22]
Johan Bernio
over there, but looks like Visma is in pole position.
- [11:25]
Spencer Martin
That would make a lot of sense, actually.
- [11:28]
Johan Bernio
And replacing Simon Yates.
- [11:31]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. And then open the zero. That's how it works. It's perfect.
- [11:34]
Johan Bernio
Yeah.
- [11:34]
Spencer Martin
I mean, I. I felt like Visma kind of missed Simon Yates today. I think they got a little lucky. With Red Bull leads into the climb. Polls for the first 4 or 5k of the climb. And then Visma, Camping Arts has dropped while Red Bull's pulling probably to do with his breakaway and one of the hardest stages anyone's ever raced. Two days ago. Still unclear to me why they did that. And then Piganzoli does a very good turn of work for them.
- [12:01]
Johan Bernio
Like he.
- [12:01]
Spencer Martin
He kind of bails them out because he pulls for 3K, basically is going
- [12:06]
Johan Bernio
to be the key rider, I think, for Jonas. If you look, obviously Sepkus is, you know, he has this. The pedigree of the ultimate teammate in the mountains. And he was the last man to lead out Jonas. But big Anzoli, if you look what he did already on stage two for Jonas on that shorter climb, he was the only. And he was super strong. The. This guy looks like he's in really, really good shape. This guy comes from p. Don't.
- [12:32]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. What a pickup in the off season. Yeah. He comes from pti.
- [12:36]
Johan Bernio
Yeah.
- [12:36]
Spencer Martin
Last year.
- [12:37]
Johan Bernio
Yeah. Really good rider. Really good rider.
- [12:39]
Spencer Martin
Why did he. So this is a thing Visma does. He pulls off with, what did I say? 6k to go, 6.3k to go, and he's fighting hard. Middle of the goods gets pushed out of the way by Felix G's decathlon teammates. Finishes the stage in 16th, 2 minutes, 55 seconds. Down with the pink jersey with Egan, Bernal, Sepkus. Sepkus kind of always does this. He finishes two seconds later. Why is Visma doing this?
- [13:05]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, well, they've. It's not the first time. Spencer. We've talked about this in the Tour already. You know, they just. You know, the. The. The guys who. Who are doing the work in the mountains, they. They keep going. You know, they don't. They never sit up.
- [13:18]
Spencer Martin
No.
- [13:20]
Johan Bernio
I don't know, man. I'm not a fan of this. Is it to be able to use them, you know, to keep them close enough that when a big group goes, they can put them in big groups and they're a threat for gc. I mean, listen, if you have a leader and, you know, the. The number one and only favorite to win this race, like Jonas Wingergaard, you don't need to do that. You just. You need to have confidence in the strength of your team and know that you're going to be able to control, you know, basically the whole Giro. It costs energy, and, you know, we've all. We also see at Visma sometimes that, you know, the guys who have to be there logically are not always there, you know, but they kind of switch. You know, when one guy is not good enough, then another guy comes in, it has a great day. But it's. Yeah, it's strange to see that they, like, let these guys. I don't know if they allow them or if they actually tell them. I mean, I'm going to guess it's the second. It's an instruct. An instruction, you know, to. Okay, you have to keep going. You have to keep going. Why? I have never, until now, I have never seen a situation in the Tour or in the Giro or in. In another stage race. I mean, smaller stage races, maybe you could say, maybe, you know, because the differences are smaller. But in a big Tour, I've never seen a situation where Visma actually could play that card, where they could take advantage of the fact that they had one guy decently placed in the GC and could use that situation, having that person in a breakaway and put pressure on the other teams. I don't know. I mean, listen, FP Gonzoli is. You always have to think, know, okay, if you're number two or number three or number four in. In. It actually, it did happen once. Sepkus won the won da like this. So is it since then they're doing this? Is it since then that they said, okay, let's try this. You never know, but, but you know, like Piganzoli, if he keeps going, I don't know where he is now in gc, but say he's five minutes down or six minutes down, he's down for a reason. He's not up with the first guys for a reason because he is not of that quality yet. I mean the guys can still improve because he's a young rider. But yeah, I'm not a fan of these tactics. I think you should, especially if it's a three week stage race. You have to manage the energy and the strength of every teammate and when their job is done, it's job done and that's okay. Then it's everything on reserve. Try to, you know, spend as less possible energy and make it safely to the finish. That's in my opinion still the best formula to, to keep your team together and have your guys recovered every day you need them.
- [16:28]
Spencer Martin
Is it possible they're doing it in case Jonas has a mechanical and they have people close to him? That would be the only other thing I can think of that's.
- [16:37]
Johan Bernio
Listen, that's not, it's, you know, it's not. It's not.
- [16:40]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I've not thought that would actually be. If you think about the like, that would actually be more useful probably than there's a scenario where pig and soul vegan Zola gets in a breakaway and the, the problem with. Yeah, I mean it could. You're right, it happened with Sepkus. But you start to get into magical thinking territory. You're like, so he's in a breakaway with no other GC rider and then holds everyone off to win the gc. You don't see that so often, probably.
- [17:06]
Johan Bernio
No.
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Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [17:06]
Johan Bernio
No.
- [17:08]
Spencer Martin
Let's talk about Jonas's attack. So I counted one time where he left the saddle. He was completely. He was seated the entire time he was attacking. And we, we know he must have been going hard because he was.
- [17:19]
Johan Bernio
He.
- [17:19]
Spencer Martin
They distanced this group so fast. Like we said, G loses all his time basically in the first K of the. He is something like 19 seconds down in the first kilometer of the attack. He pulls back 12 seconds on Jonas in the last 4K. So we know he's going fast. When he's seated, he stands up with 4 6k to go. And that is when I clock Pelozari cracking. So maybe he stood up to crack him his power. I've estimated this is even a little conservative. 385 watts for 38 minutes, 26 seconds. I knocked a little bit off because it just looked high to me. But Derek G. We have his power in front of us. His real power. He did 40 minutes on the climb. 433 watts, 6.1 watts per kilo. We have Vinegard at 6.5 watts per kilo for almost 40 minutes. That is, that's like a Tour de France level climbing performance. So we know he was good. It's not like he's struggling here. So that makes it even more impressive that Gall pulled it back. But what do you make? I have a lot of people writing me with theories about the seated phenomenon we've been seeing. But what do you think about this?
- [18:22]
Johan Bernio
I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't look too deep into it. I mean, it's, it's probably. They tested this. It's. It's his most efficient way, especially on longer climbs, is on shorter climbs you can, you can, you know, I think you can get out of the saddle and not pay for it. But, you know, I mean, if you get out of the saddle, your power goes up dramatically for a very short period of time. And I think they've discovered or calculated that, you know, staying seated, you can distribute your power more evenly and especially for, you know, a 30, 40 minute effort, you know, we, a lot of people say, yeah, you know, Pugachar does it now, Vingegaard does it. It's the new trend. I think it depends from rider to rider. I think Jonas is a typical. I mean, before already he was not often out of the saddle. Is it because we focus on it now and I don't know, I feel
- [19:22]
Spencer Martin
like him and Picach used to see them. Jonas, like, you know, you have this vision in your head of him when he was winning tours, it'd be out of the saddle. Do you think it has to do with the shorter cranks? I mean, someone sent me a theory that if you have really short cranks, it can mess you up to stand up.
- [19:38]
Johan Bernio
And also, I mean, you listen, if you have shorter cranks, you can maintain your cadence easier than like pushing a big gear. I don't know what is Jonas now? Is it me? Because I've. I mean, this. We know Pugacha is 165, right? So I've seen last year, I seem to remember that at some point he was on 155 and then went back to 160 or 165. What what's. What's he riding now? 155. Seems extremely short to me.
- [20:04]
Spencer Martin
Seems very short. I would want to go to a race and measure this.
- [20:08]
Johan Bernio
Yeah.
- [20:08]
Spencer Martin
Which.
- [20:09]
Johan Bernio
But I think. I think, you know, the shorter cranks do allow you to stay seated and maintain your cadence more comfortably than if you have longer cracks. But also, it's. I mean, Spencer, it's not that. I mean, it's. Listen, it's more efficient, that's for sure. They've done the tests. They know the science behind it. Right. But it's not that big of a difference, you know, 165 or 170, it's five, you know, but if you've gone
- [20:35]
Spencer Martin
down from, let's say, 170 to 155, that's 1.5 centimeters. Is that right in. In the metric system? Something like that. And imagine if you, like, raised your seat 1.5 centimeters, you know, it would feel drastically different, so.
- [20:49]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, but that's not. It's not the same.
- [20:50]
Spencer Martin
You could, like, that's lit if you're standing up. It's like changing the center of your gravity quite a bit. Makes me wonder about short cranks and sprints, actually, the more you think about it. But whatever he's doing, he's putting out a lot of power. It's working. I. It does drive me crazy at times. With Gall, I was like, just stand up. Like, let's go anaerobic man here. You could catch him.
- [21:11]
Johan Bernio
Golf cadence is amazing. You know, he's. He.
- [21:13]
Spencer Martin
He was riding, like, the smallest gear he had the whole time and just flying.
- [21:16]
Johan Bernio
He's not the example of what biomechanically looks, you know, correct. But for his. For. For him, it works. You know, he's not aerodynamic at all, ever. You know, he pedals with his knees out and. But, you know, he's. He goes fast up those climbs, man. It works for him. And he's very steady. You know, he's very steady. You know, he doesn't have any ups and downs. It's. It's. He's incredibly, incredibly steady.
- [21:44]
Spencer Martin
And so here, I just have a list here. You tell me what you think, right or wrong. Very simple.
- [21:48]
Johan Bernio
Good.
- [21:48]
Spencer Martin
Medium. Bad days good. Jonas Fingergaard, probably safe to say he had a good day, right. Wins the stage, doesn't take the race lead, which is good right now. He still has Eulario in the race lead, still has Bahrain as a friend. That's fantastic. Felix. Goal. Good day. He gets.
- [22:04]
Johan Bernio
He's probably.
- [22:05]
Spencer Martin
I feel bad. The guy had probably the best climbing performance of his career, really incredible climbing performance and we're saying, oh, he's not going to win the race. What if he goes on? He could. He. Maybe he does, but he probably won't. But for the podium, this is big. So good day for him. And then Rondell, Matthias Rondell from Tudor Pro Cycling. I thought that was a very good day for them.
- [22:27]
Johan Bernio
Two days ago. Went through the back window of the UAE car.
- [22:30]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Which we didn't see, but we saw the broken window.
- [22:34]
Johan Bernio
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good climber, man. A young rider. He's been. He's been at some races already. Came to the forefront. Yeah. Really good day for him too, I would say. Belizeari medium day. You know, we can't say it's a bad day. You know, he's.
- [22:55]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I agree.
- [22:57]
Johan Bernio
He's third in the stage.
- [22:58]
Spencer Martin
No.
- [22:58]
Johan Bernio
Or fourth in the Fourth in the
- [23:00]
Spencer Martin
stage, right behind Henley.
- [23:02]
Johan Bernio
One minute, one minute down. So it's not a bad day. Obviously he expected more, but all is not lost. Definitely not for the podium. So good day for Jay Hindley also. Really good day. All in all, not a bad day for Red Bull. I mean, I still. Spencer, I mean, I still question what they were doing at the bottom of blockhouse. It's 13 and a half kilometers and Visma only comes to the front with 8k to go. So that means that the first 5k were. It was Red Bull in command. Was it necessary? Probably not. At the same time, you could also argue, well, we have three riders on the team and there's nothing else they can do than just ride these 5km here at the bottom of the climb. But, you know, normally it would be on Visma to already start using their riders there. And I mean, on the other hand, you could also say, well, you know, if Visma starts straight away, then maybe Jonas attacks earlier and we lose more time. If I think if Jonas would have attacked earlier, probably we could have seen a scenario where Felix G actually comes in together with Jonas. If Jonas starts his effort earlier.
- [24:25]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Or passes them. I don't know.
- [24:28]
Johan Bernio
Now, this is in hindsight, right?
- [24:29]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, but it'd be hard because they were stronger. They're quite a bit stronger than Vis at the start of the climb. Let's say they don't pull, then Visa is going to have to go to the front. Probably. Most likely they're going to burn their riders earlier. Jonas attacks earlier. But is the attack off a slower pace? Does that give people. Is it easier to follow? I don't know. I just don't. I'm never a big fan of polling if you're not. If you do not have the strongest. Right. If polling at the bottom of a climb when you don't have the strongest climber in the group. I don't.
- [24:59]
Johan Bernio
It's also also, you know, the first big climb is also also a discovery of how is everybody, right? I mean, how strong are they really? Now everybody could say, well, you know, we're, you know, Visma is incredibly strong. But you know what, let's test them. Let's see how strong they really are. Turns out they were maybe not as strong as they thought because they only had Pig Anzoli and Sepkus with Jonas.
- [25:22]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, the. The pushback to what I'm saying, the crit. My criticism, the pushback to it is, you're right. Sometimes you want to test them because you don't know. Because I think it was, I want to say the 2017 Tour de France, the Perigueux Summit finish. They let Team sky ride the front. They let Chris Froome sit there and then Roman Bardet attacks at the end and Chris Froome explodes. And you're like, well, maybe someone should have tested him earlier. You would have found that out. So there is something to be said for that. And they did find out that maybe Visma is not quite as strong. I. If Visma has to defend the jersey to the third week, it. I would like. I. I don't. I'm not full of confidence in them after the stage. Am I crazy for that?
- [26:05]
Johan Bernio
I mean, they're already. They're also there one man down. Let's not forget that.
- [26:08]
Spencer Martin
And a super important writer, by the
- [26:10]
Johan Bernio
way, would have been probably the fourth guy in, you know, because they have Timokili, they have Company Arts. Who else do they have? I don't know. I don't know. Tim Rex. So yeah, they. Normally they would have had Kelderman, right. Who would be there just before Piganzoli. I think they're strong enough. Yeah. I mean, Picanzoli was impressive today. That guy really impressed me.
- [26:45]
Spencer Martin
That's just. Yeah, I just can't get over that pickup. You know, I would imagine he was quite available. If you're on Pulte visit Malta, you probably would go to a lot of teams and they signed him, but they
- [26:55]
Johan Bernio
picked up two Italians who everybody said, you know what? This is a surprise.
- [27:01]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [27:01]
Johan Bernio
The guy who won Fiorelli, who won
- [27:04]
Spencer Martin
Trouble on, you know, he's like 30 years old from.
- [27:07]
Johan Bernio
31 years old, comes from Bardiani. So, you know, they. They must have had information from, I don't know, an Italian writer of Afini, probably on the team who said, hey, this guy's good. And then, you know, they. They must have had data that. To back it up. And for the moment, these two riders, it's proven that it was a really good pickup. Good choice.
- [27:32]
Spencer Martin
Shout out, Patrick, bro. Good job. And so to finish, I had medium. I had Henley Pelizar, Arnsman Store. And then bad. I hate to do this. Enrique Moss and Ian Bernal, I would say had bad days. Yep. Yeah, I guess we should say good Ulario, we should put him in the good bucket because he defended his.
- [27:51]
Johan Bernio
I mean, listen, it was. I think it was to be expected. I said, you know, two and a half, three minutes. Turned out to be three minutes to be expected because let's not Forget this guy 2 days ago, was he. He was 240k in the rain in the front. That took a lot out of him. Don't recover from that so easily. He's a good climber. Listen, he's a good climber. He's probably going to have the jersey until maybe after the time trial still.
- [28:23]
Spencer Martin
There is still another summit finish before the time trial, so I guess he could lose a minute on that. I don't know though.
- [28:31]
Johan Bernio
Maybe.
- [28:31]
Spencer Martin
Maybe less.
- [28:33]
Johan Bernio
Yeah.
- [28:34]
Spencer Martin
If he holds it after the time trial, it starts to get. The story becomes interesting. I don't think he would actually hold it until the end of the race, but he might hold it until stage 14, almost the second rest day. So we can, we can.
- [28:47]
Johan Bernio
We can take a bet, Spencer, that, you know, he's never. He's not going to hold it till the end of the race. You want to bet on that or no?
- [28:55]
Spencer Martin
Win the Giro, Natalia. That would be impressive. What if they never pulled him back and he's just losing to 10 seconds every summit finish? I don't think that's. I mean, even stage 14's not even the hardest day of the race. And you look at it looks like a Tour de France, like serious mountain stage. And they're not even at the hard mountains yet. So no, I don't think he's going to hold on. And I was going to mention one other thing. Oh, okay. So Inrik Moss. This is not great. He gets dropped with Egan Bernal. Bernal finishes in the group with Ulario. Not great. 257. Back on the stage winner Jonas Finnegard.
- [29:30]
Johan Bernio
I think mass more than five minutes in.
- [29:32]
Spencer Martin
Rick Moss was almost six minutes back, surrounded by his movie movie star team. So that's really not good.
- [29:38]
Johan Bernio
No, no. And, you know, they came in with. I mean, I've seen a few interviews. I mean, he did not race a lot. He had this, you know, this physical problem. I. I had a surgery for something. I don't remember what it was.
- [29:51]
Spencer Martin
The iliadic artery, I believe.
- [29:54]
Johan Bernio
Was it?
- [29:54]
Spencer Martin
I don't know.
- [29:55]
Johan Bernio
Okay. I don't think so. It was something to do with the veins.
- [29:59]
Spencer Martin
Oh, like the varicose veins or something?
- [30:01]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, something like that, I think. But. But, you know, he sounded really, really confident that, you know, everything was in place and he would, you know, he came into good shape. He was going to improve during the. During the Giro, but, you know, shows that you never know. You know, I mean, today was obviously not. Not a good day. He looked pretty good until now. Was always up there. The day. The day that John Christian attacked, he was actually the last guy who brought him back. Closed the gap.
- [30:34]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [30:36]
Johan Bernio
For Luis Olar. So, you know, I mean, for shows that, you know, a rider like Enrique Musk, who's a climber, when he's up there in finals of those kind of stages, you say, okay, you know what? He's probably in good shape, you know, but today, man, there was no hiding, you know, it was, if you don't have it, you don't have it. Egon Bernal, the same. You know, I mean, I just saw a little interview from him. He had no explanation. Didn't feel good. He said it was too fast when Visma was pulling, and that was it. You know, he had no excuses.
- [31:08]
Spencer Martin
Well, you said that on stage. What Was that? Stage 4? That his heart rate was at 190 when he got dropped. It's, like, quite high for. I mean, I don't know if that's a dehydration issue or. It almost sounds like afib. I don't. I'm not. I don't want to diagnose someone with afib, but. No, no, that's like.
- [31:27]
Johan Bernio
I don't know.
- [31:27]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, that's not. That's outside of just, ooh, this is hard. And I'm getting dropped. That would tell you there's like, some sort of hydration thing or his body's not recovered from the first few stages or travel. But, I mean, today, actually, he was better than stage four. But, yeah, it's not. Probably not going to be a GC4, so the team's probably all in on our own.
- [31:48]
Johan Bernio
No, no, no. Is. No, I said already on stage four. I said, if this happens now, you know, it doesn't look good. For the, for the next, next two weeks. First big appointment, you know, Block house. He, it's not, I mean he didn't really break down. I mean he's only two, what is he two minutes or something behind today?
- [32:10]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, he's not, he's not that far behind. Well, 247 behind.
- [32:14]
Johan Bernio
Okay. Okay.
- [32:16]
Spencer Martin
The stage winner, Vinegar.
- [32:18]
Johan Bernio
So he was in front of, he was in front of you.
- [32:22]
Spencer Martin
He was. Sorry. 257. So he's two seconds behind Eulario. Okay, okay. He's kind of noodling along at the back of that group.
- [32:34]
Johan Bernio
Not, not good. Irons1 was okay. I think, you know, Ironsman could limit the, limit the damage. But you know, if we talk about Arman, we're talking about maybe a top five, right? We're not talking about the podium.
- [32:46]
Spencer Martin
The only pushback is I'm even looking now. Maybe he's too far back. How is he as a time trialist compared to Jai Henley, Felix G. Ben Ocon or Pelizar would we say he's, he's good. Yeah. So that's where it gets interesting. A lot better, right?
- [33:04]
Johan Bernio
A lot, a lot better. Time trialist. Yeah.
- [33:07]
Spencer Martin
So he could, if he stays. I, I mean that's why today was like, you know, maybe lost a little bit more than he wanted to. But if he stays close and then they go into that time trial, it could be a good stage for him. Yeah, but I, I thought he looked like he was hurting before Jonas attacked, which is not great if you're going for the podium.
- [33:26]
Johan Bernio
Always looks, you know, don't get fooled by his style. You know, he's all over the bike. He never looks like he's comfortable but you know, he's, he's a good writer.
- [33:38]
Spencer Martin
And then I thought, don't forget this guy.
- [33:39]
Johan Bernio
He won two stages in the Tour last year.
- [33:41]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, pretty impressive. Derek G. West. Kind of a good day. Eighth, 142 back, putting out 433 watts for 40 minutes. Not bad.
- [33:52]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, but Spencer, you know what these numbers don't mean. Listen, you can push whatever you want. It's the result of counts. You know, it's like, okay, but he's another guy. Great numbers, but you're not in the top three of the stage.
- [34:04]
Spencer Martin
But he's another guy though, that the time trial is going to favor him way more than. Yeah, like potentially. He's going to take back more than he lost just today in the time trial on Gaul. Henley o', Connor, Pelizarry, we'll see. But he's probably the Best time trialist besides Jonas of this GC group. Don't you think?
- [34:24]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, I know how to swim.
- [34:26]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Yeah. So now pump for the time trial. That. Way to go. Maybe not a terrible course design, but let's take a quick break and then I have a. I have a question for you about Julia Chacone. And then we're going to preview the next stage because they go hand in hand. Hey, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Rugiat. Life comes at you fast. Between work, relationships and everything else on your plate, you want to know you can show up when it counts. And that includes the bedroom. If things aren't working out the way they used to, you don't have to accept it. Rui has treatments that can help you get there and keep you there as long as you want. Whether it's an occasional trouble or something that's been building for a while, the doctors will work with you to find what fits your body. Their bestselling treatment, Rugiate Ready combines three clinically proven ingredients in one minty dose that dissolves under your tongue. It increases blood flow and primes your brain for arousal so you're ready physically and mentally. Most men are good to go in about 15 minutes with effects lasting up to 36 hours. And if timing is your issue, Ruit has Golong a two in one treatment that helps get you where you need to be and keep you there and stay in control of when you finish. Over 400,000 men have already made the switch to rug. Yet getting started is simple. Rug connects you with a board certified doctor online and treatment ships discreetly and directly to your door. Head to rui.com the move and get 15% off your ED treatment. That's r u g I-t.com the move for 15% off riit.com the move everyone
- [35:47]
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- [36:17]
Spencer Martin
Okay, Johan, we're back. Before we preview the stage, which is. Let me make sure we get this right. It's a pretty interesting stage. Stage 8, 156km flat along the coast, slight uphill start to get to the coast. They could climb out of this little valley. They're in flat along the coast for 95 kilometers. And then we have three climbs, right? Four. Four climbs. One of them the finish. Sorry, five climbs. One of them a finishing climb. Super steep section of it, like 13% for almost a kilometer with pitches of 22%. Then you go up to the finish and you have a 10% pitch right before the finish. What I'm describing would be perfect for Julio Ciccone. Instead, he will not be in the breakaway because he is only. He's in fifth place overall. He's a minute, like a little over a minute behind Jonas Vinegar. So he's not going to be in that breakaway. He was great on the day. He finished seventh on the day, 140 down. Why did he do that? What is going on here?
- [37:16]
Johan Bernio
He said in the interview he's an 8 in GC, I think, Spencer.
- [37:20]
Spencer Martin
So if we're 8, we both messed that up.
- [37:23]
Johan Bernio
And yeah, yeah, yeah, he's an eight. But if you look amongst the favorites, he's maybe in fifth. But yeah, he's. He's too close to be able to go in a breakaway. Was that going to be your question? Why is he up there?
- [37:38]
Spencer Martin
Well, he said in the interview after the stage that he wasn't here for gc. Tomorrow would be perfect for him. All these things cannot be true. Right? Because why would he have done this if he's not here for gc?
- [37:51]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, if he's not here for gc, then today it was probably not a good idea to hang on. If he loses three, four more minutes today. Tomorrow is an ideal stage. Now the question is, is it going to be a breakaway day tomorrow? We don't know. Right. To me, it looks like it's an ideal stage for a breakaway, but maybe the peloton decides differently.
- [38:14]
Spencer Martin
Well, do you know who would be. You know, it's also possible that Julia Chacon is just a very good guy and wanted to help Derek G. In, like, be there for Derek G. Like, I guess we should explore that possibility.
- [38:25]
Johan Bernio
Yeah.
- [38:25]
Spencer Martin
But another theory I have is that little track does not want this to be a breakaway day, that they want it to be contested from the peloton so Chacone can win.
- [38:36]
Johan Bernio
That's also a possibility. Yeah, could be. But, you know, that's ultimately not gonna not gonna be little Trek. Who decides on that? It's gonna be Visma and Bahrain. Bahrain who decide on that?
- [38:51]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, the, the Bahrain's the. They control this peloton. This is their peloton. They were very eager to work today. I think maybe we weren't recording yet, but you thought maybe there was a deal struck, but with Bahrain and Visma, because Bahrain was really helping out all day. This stage, super interesting. I'm. I'm quite curious to watch it. It's not that long, 156km, so just under a hundred miles. And it has this long stretch, a hundred kilometers basically of just flat along the coast. And then it gets into, you know, short, shortish mountain passes, like 10k long at 4%'s the first one, then 5k long at 6%, a bonus second, a bonus red Bull kilometer sprint at the top of a climb that is 11% average. And then we have these tough climbs up to. It's one of these Roman hilltop towns. Firmo is where the finish is. Who do you think wins this thing?
- [39:47]
Johan Bernio
I still, I mean, like, logically, it should be an ideal stage for a breakaway. It's very difficult to predict, Spencer. It's a wild guess, but if it's a breakaway, I'm looking at names like, for example, Alessandro Pinarello from nsn. He's been in good form this year. We haven't seen him yet in this Giro. And then Lorenzo Milesi, who was a young writer on movistar and did an impressive performance that day that Movistar did. The selection on that climb for Or Luis or Lar. I'm just throwing those two names out there, but it's a wild guess. But I do think that it's an ideal stage for a breakaway with a very hard finish, with a very hard final. So it needs to be a rider who can. I mean, you need to be the best climber of the breakaway.
- [40:45]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, Right. So, yeah, you gotta be. You have to be far enough down in the GC to get into the breakaway, and then you have to be the best climber from the breakaway. And you have to get into the breakaway on terrain that's not suited to climbers. So it's not so easy to. To win that. When you think about it like that, I'm gonna. I like your picks. I. I really like Alessandro Pinarello. He could win this. I'm gonna go Darren Rafferty on EF. EF's gonna be in that move. They've been in every move the last few days. Right. So ef's gonna be up there. He had an incredible bridge. What was that on stage five? And so I think he's a good enough climber. I think he could win the stage. And then Gian Marco Garofoli on Sudok quickstep, I think he could win too. Okay, what we're doing is we're just picking the top six from stage five, which is not a bad, not bad because that shows you who are the strongest climbers that can go in breakaways. I mean, we don't and we don't think obviously Lario is not going to win. That would be unbelievable if he got in the breakaway, gained three more minutes, won the stage. Probably not going to be Thomas Silva. Probably not going to be Igor Arieta. Right. You don't see a double up Arieta.
- [42:01]
Johan Bernio
I mean, you know, uae, uae probably they're going to be active tomorrow. A guy who lost quite a bit of time today is I think young Kristen.
- [42:11]
Spencer Martin
Yep.
- [42:11]
Johan Bernio
Did he not lose a lot of time?
- [42:12]
Spencer Martin
He got dropped very early on the climb. Let's look where he is. Yeah, he's in 23rd place.
- [42:18]
Johan Bernio
Okay. So you know Jonathan Narvaeis, UAE is Uaze is going to be active tomorrow to get to be in the break.
- [42:29]
Spencer Martin
I think Nirvaeus, I think maybe that stresses even his ability. That would be for him to be able to out climb everybody on those climbs. I don't know if I can see that.
- [42:41]
Johan Bernio
Short ones, I mean especially the, in the final, they're all short ones and steep ones. I think, I think he, yeah, I think he could do it.
- [42:48]
Spencer Martin
The problem with Jan Christen is he's 750 back is does he get in the break and then people start freaking out and chasing him? Probably, probably not, right?
- [42:58]
Johan Bernio
Yeah, I mean it's, yeah, there's, listen, after the first mountain stage already now everybody knows a little bit where they are. There will be people already starting to think not just about the win, the podium, the top five, the top ten.
- [43:10]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Like Tudor could chase.
- [43:13]
Johan Bernio
Yeah. So, so in that case, Jan Christen would be a threat for some of those people.
- [43:20]
Spencer Martin
Well, so I'm, we, we like our guys. I, I, I like your pick of Alessandro Pinarello. I think he could win the stage. I think Darren Rafferty could win the stage. But I also, as I said, I don't think it's impossible that it's not a breakaway day because it's such a difficult, it's not easy breakaway formation terrain. It could make it really weird. You could have a breakaway go late after, after the flat part and when the climbs begin, we just don't know. And Johan, do you have anything else on today's stage or the preview for the moment?
- [43:48]
Johan Bernio
That's it, Spencer, that's it.
- [43:50]
Spencer Martin
All right, well, thank you so much and we'll be back to break down stage eight tomorrow.
- [43:54]
Johan Bernio
Okay, thanks.
- [43:55]
Spencer Martin
Okay, bye.
- [44:02]
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- [44:31]
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