Did the Future of Pro Cycling Just Arrive? | Strade Bianche Breakdown | THEMOVE

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Summary

Episode: Did the Future of Pro Cycling Just Arrive? | Strade Bianche Breakdown
Host: Lance Armstrong (not present; the main hosts in this episode are Spencer Martin, Johan Bruyneel, George Hincapie)
Date: March 7, 2026

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Overview

This episode of THEMOVE dives deep into the 2026 Strade Bianche, a race that underscored Tadej Pogačar’s utter dominance and heralded a generational shift in professional cycling. With firsthand insights from Johan Bruyneel and George Hincapie, both reporting live from Tuscany, and the analytical perspective of Spencer Martin, the team explores how Pogačar’s solo demolitions are rewriting the script for modern one-day races and identifies the rising young talents—Paul Seychas and Isaac Del Toro—who are reshaping the sport’s future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pogačar’s Strade Bianche Performance and Dominance

• Solo Win Breakdown:

  • Pogačar attacked with about 77km to go on the Monte Santa Maria sector—his trademark spot—and never looked back, managing a lead of 1:20 to 2:00 minutes all the way to Siena.
  • His UAE team set a brutal tempo, controlling the race from the start and putting their rivals on the back foot before Pogačar's move.
  • Johan Bruyneel, on-site: “To me, it’s mind-blowing how he has this exercise under control. He goes, takes one minute, and just manages that minute... He just does it.” (06:41)

• Physical & Tactical Superiority:

  • Pogačar’s ability to put out enormous power while remaining extremely light is unmatched, especially over hilly, demanding courses like Strade.
  • As Spencer notes: “When it’s a course like this … there’s no one else in the world who can put out the raw power and be as light as him. ... It’s not close.” (15:41)

• Predictable Yet Unstoppable:

  • The pundits joke about how everyone knows when Pogačar will attack, but no team or rider is capable of stopping him.
  • George Hincapie: “Everybody knows Pogačar is going to attack with 80k to go today, and the whole peloton knows that, and they still can’t do anything about it. We’ve never seen that before in this sport.” (36:56)
  • Johan adds: “We’ve seen dominant riders, dominant teams, but this is so predictable. Everybody knows it, and nobody can do anything about it.” (37:21)

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2. The Arrival of the Next Generation

• Standout Podium Results:

  • Paul Seychas (19 years old) — 2nd place
  • Isaac Del Toro (21, Pogačar's teammate at UAE) — 3rd
  • Roman Grégoire — 4th
  • The hosts agree: “Outside of Pogačar winning, we saw the future of the sport.” (04:04)

• Seychas’ Coming-of-Age Ride:

  • Despite a long pull from 30km out with Del Toro on his wheel, Seychas dropped Del Toro on the run-in to finish second—a ride called the best teenage cycling performance the hosts have ever seen.
  • George Hincapie: “Paul Seychelles, 19 years old, getting second place, dropping Isaac Del Toro… Super impressive stuff… to see such a young kid beating the best.” (12:02)
  • Spencer: “I think it’s safe to say this is the best teenage cycling performance I’ve ever seen.” (38:46)

• Del Toro: Hype and Perspective

  • Despite winning UAE Tour recently, Del Toro was bested by Seychas (“Del Toro is a killer… but if he had the strength to go with Pogačar, he would have.” (01:15/09:43))
  • High expectations from Mexican fans, strong team dynamics at UAE with him and Pogačar.

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3. How Pogačar Wins – the Evolution of Modern One-Day Racing

• Race Strategy Analysis:

  • UAE’s overwhelming strength leaves rivals isolated; by the time Pogačar attacks, “everybody’s in the limit and already isolated, nobody left with teammates.” (18:09)
  • Solo attacks from far out (60km+!) are now a feature, not a fluke.
  • Spencer’s stat: “In the last 23 major one-day races, 21 were won solo—and it’s basically just Pogačar, Van der Poel, and Evenepoel.” (24:26)

• Physical Numbers:

  • Seychas’ 465w for 20 minutes at 64kg is “a better watt per kilo than Lance Armstrong in his Madone test before the Tour.” (15:40)
  • Discussion about “the era of the aero bike”—even on gravel, UAE rode their most aero machines. The group agrees this is speeding up races and favoring solo attackers. (16:31)

• Tactical Puzzles for Rivals:

  • On why teams can’t organize: “When Pogačar attacks, there’s just no answer… Only when the chase group is a single rider (Seychas) does anyone make ground—big groups don’t help.” (19:10)

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4. What’s Next: Can Anyone Stop This Pattern?

• Looking To Milan-San Remo:

  • Debate if Pogačar can be stopped at MSR—consensus is it’s a much tougher race for a solo move due to the 5% slopes and the strength of “climber-sprinters” like Van der Poel.
  • Hincapie: “I think it’s a different ballgame [at San Remo]; 5% climbs mean sprinters can hang on.” (29:04)
  • Johan: “It is not mission impossible to get organized and get him back [at San Remo].” (28:31)

• Future of Seychas and Del Toro:

  • Who will dominate in the post-Pogačar era?
  • Johan: “Advantage Seychas because of his age and team setup, but I like Del Toro more as a personality.” (31:36)
  • George: “If you look at what happened today… Seychas did all the work and still dropped Del Toro. Advantage Seychas.” (33:24)

• Big Picture:

  • The hosts agree: the sport is changing quickly. The “once-a-generation” dominance may be replaced by new young stars who win with similar solo moves, but there is hope for different styles of racing, especially in races like Milan-San Remo.
  • Death of “middle class” of the peloton? Tom Pidcock and others now being leapfrogged by 19- and 21-year-olds. (30:09)

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5. Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He just does it. He’s mastered the art of attacking and keeping the breakaway in any course, on any field.” — Johan Bruyneel [06:41]
• “Everybody knows Pogačar is going to attack with 80k to go. The whole peloton knows that, and they still can’t do anything about it.” — George Hincapie [36:56]
• “Paul Seychelles, 19 years old…getting second place, dropping Isaac del Toro…that’s super impressive.” — George Hincapie [12:02]
• “When it’s a course like this … there’s no one else in the world who can put out the raw power and be as light as him. … It’s not close.” — Spencer Martin [15:41]
• “We’ve seen dominant riders, dominant teams, but this is so predictable. Everybody knows it, and nobody can do anything about it.” — Johan Bruyneel [37:21]
• “In the last 23 major one-day races...21 were won solo. And it’s only three riders: Pogacar, Van der Poel, and Evenepoel.” — Spencer Martin [24:46]
• “I think it’s safe to say this is the best teenage cycling performance I’ve ever seen.” — Spencer Martin [38:46]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Strade Bianche action overview: 02:17 – 06:41
• Insider viewpoint from the Monte Santa Maria sector: 06:41 – 09:43
• Breakdown of Seychas and Del Toro’s performances: 12:02 – 15:40
• Technical discussion – power numbers, equipment: 15:40 – 18:06
• Why Pogačar can’t be stopped: 18:09 – 20:03
• Changing solo-attacker dynamics: 24:26 – 26:24
• Milan-San Remo preview & tactics: 27:20 – 30:11
• Post-Pogačar era speculation: 30:51 – 35:32
• Final thoughts on solo wins, new stars, team dynamics: 36:17 – 43:47

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Conclusion

THEMOVE’s Strade Bianche breakdown blends firsthand race reporting, technical analysis, and big-picture commentary on the future of professional cycling. The conversation makes clear: Pogačar’s reign isn’t just record-breaking; it’s changing how major races are won, with solo attacks now the norm. But behind him, a new breed of teenage phenoms is rising fast—and the next phase of the sport could arrive sooner than anyone expects.

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For listeners seeking a gripping, insider’s analysis of pro cycling’s new era—from watt data to race strategics to the team van in Tuscany—this episode is essential.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

Let's not make a mistake here. Isaac Del Toro is a killer, and he was on the perfect position behind Paul Cesar. If he was able to go with Pogucar, he would have gone with Pogucar. It's not like he held back and stayed on Paul's wheel just to make it more tactically difficult. If he had the strength there to go, he would have. I mean, it's just an indication of how much better Pogaar is than anybody else right now or has been for the last several years. Nobody can touch him. First race of the year. No matter what he does, he can race the Tour UAE like he did last year, come to Strada Bianca and beat everybody this year. This is his first race of the year. Has just been training up until now. A lot of these guys have all been racing stage races. So it's like you think, oh, maybe he hasn't raced yet this year. Maybe he'll be a little bit weaker. Nope, doesn't matter. He can just come into the hardest race of the year thus far and just ride everybody off his wheel. So it's just there's no stopping this guy.

[D]

Everybody, welcome back to the Move podcast. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel and George Hincapi, both of whom are on the ground in Tuscany for the race. And we are breaking down Strada Bianchi 2026 won by. You probably could have guessed it before it happened today. Pagacha, our solo win with Paul Seshaw second, Isaac Del Toro, Pagachar's UA teammate third, Roman Gregoire fourth, Gianni Vermeesh fifth. I'll just run through a quick run through of the highlights and then we'll get your guys's take on the win and what this means for perhaps hopefully more interesting races down the line. But with 90K to go, the TV coverage starts. It's kind of annoying thing about Strada Bianchi is they don't start TV coverage until after all the action has started. So the TV turns on. We see UAE at the front. I believe Kevin Vermarka, Johan, you said he might be too busy early, but he was hammering that pace. There's a really tough. I think it's the Stado 6 sector, like a 11k long, very hard climb. UAE is lining it out already within 24 seconds of the early breakaway. And the significance of this is it tires Pagatra's competition out, but also makes it very hard to get on his wheel because only a few riders can move up on that gravel. They get to the next sector, Stirato 7, the Monte San Monte Santa Maria climb, which is where Pagacha always attacks, which we.

[E]

Which by the way. Which by the way, we. We rode yesterday, right, George?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Attack. George ripped off.

[C]

Johan actually attacked me on that section. Proof of it.

[D]

He's been doing this lately. You got to keep an eye.

[E]

We have, we have, we have visual proof that I flew by George on Monsignor.

[C]

He did.

[E]

He did, yeah.

[D]

Especially on those downhills, man, you're ripping them. But it was. But UAE lines it up, but not a shock. But got your attacks. It looks like Tom Pickock is going to follow him like last year. He was looking down at his chain. I couldn't quite figure out what was going on. But Pickax kind of falls back. Paul Seychelles bridges up super impressive with Isaac Del Toro, who's clearly been briefed by the team to his one job, stay on Paul's wheel all day. And Mateo Jorgensen is with them briefly. But we all know what's going to happen here eventually. Pagacha wears them down, gets away solo. He already has a 34 second gap with 77k to go. And then there's the two. There's the Del Toro Seychas group in between the chase group with Jorgensen and a few strong riders like eventually Wout, Bernard, Ben Healy, Quinn Simmons, Simmons Though he gets a little worked over by, by the numbers, he closes a big gap. He gets dropped with about 50k to go. And Pagacha, his lead never really goes above two minutes. It hovers between like 150 and 120. And the impressive thing to me is Paul Sechas was doing a lot of the work chasing because UAE had two riders in that group with Jan Christian and Isaac Del Toro. In every climb, Paul Seychelles would accelerate. Del Toro would stand his wheel. The others would, you know, they're fighting hard. Like they would show Pagatro's power. It was almost looked like it was never below 460 watts the entire time he was away. And so, you know, wow, like Valve. Think how strong he is. He's back there just fighting to catch. Back onto that chase group after every climb. Eventually, Paul Seychelles attacks get, gets clear. Isaac Del Toro doing a great job, stays with him. Rides though, 30 minutes to the finish line. Pulling like, pulling alone, narrowing the lead. The lead gets down to about. It's like, it looked like it was in like 115, like going towards a minute. He's asking Del Toro to pull through. Obviously Del Toro is not going to do it. But then impressively drops Del Toro on the climb to the finish, gets second. That's that. I was blown away by that after he pulled him for maybe even over half an hour. And then there's a sprint for fourth and fifth. Probably the most impressive Roman, Gwen Gregoire picking up the most impressive fourth place I've ever seen. I would say this is probably the most impressive podium I've ever seen at this race. And I also think outside of Pagachar winning, we saw the future of the sport. We saw Paul Seychelles, 19 years old and 21 year old Isaac Del Toro kind of leapfrog everybody else in the sport besides Pagachar, but Johan, George. Johan, you go first. What was your major takeaway from this race that you probably kind of saw because you were on the side of the road.

[E]

Yeah, we. So we were on Monsieur where Pugachar attacked. I mean, he was gone, he was already away. I mean, what I take it, I mean, being there and seeing those guys pass and having written that section yesterday, it, it's unbelievable, Spencer. It's, it's. Those sections are a lot harder than what they look on tv, first of all, like a lot harder. And then, you know, the speed that Pogacha came by and it was, it was 75k to go. I think on top of Montserrat. I mean, he's done it. He's done this already. But it looks to me like it's something that they have so much under control. The, the break. The nine man breakaway was never got more than one. What was it? One minute, one minute 30. They, they had the whole team pulling. And as we said yesterday, we actually, when George and I were riding yesterday, we explained to the guys were here, we're with here. So this is what's going to happen. He's going to come in, it's going to be lined up, there's some as a climb, then there's a downhill, it's going to be all stretched out. And then, you know, at the next corner it's uphill again. Pogacha is going to go. It's exactly that way. He already did that before on another occasion. And to me it's really, I mean it's mind blowing how he has this exercise under control. He goes, takes one minute and then just manages that minute. How many races have we seen now of Pogacha since, since the world champions, since, since before. Yeah, he just takes a minute and just has it completely under control. And as we, as we said also Spencer, it was going to be Sechas and Del Toro. Success obviously is, has impressed a lot because under, you know, if, if the situation happened like we said, right, Bogachar attacks, then it's Del Toro and says Del Toro sits on the wheel. So you logically would think he gets second, but yet success was stronger in the end. That's impressive. But yeah, I mean, it is. I can hear, you know, there's a lot of people say, ah, you know, it's always the same. It's boring. I mean I, I love this. It's, it's, it's just beautiful to watch this kind of dominance and to watch this, this art, you know, it's like, it's art. Pugach just has the mastered the art of attacking and keeping the breakaway in any course, on any course, in any field. And he just does it. I mean, and I was there then at the, in the, in the piazza, the Siena. It's an amazing arena and, and the excitement of the people and the atmosphere was just, just crazy. It's a very beautiful day.

[D]

I mean he's like a boxer. He holds him just like at arm's reach. I mean, I've never seen anyone do this. You're right. With the world's champ, world champion jersey going across Tuscany with the crowds. I, I thought it was, I think it's incredible. I could watch it all day. But George, what was your big takeaway from the race?

[C]

Well, I mean, a couple things. Yeah, one can say it's boring because he just rides away from the best riders in the world. Kilometers to go. But as a former professional cyclist, knowing how hard it is to one, keep a team together on these roads here in Tuscany, where it's just. There's no. There's no straight roads. It's all up and down, windy, twisty, turny, very technical with the gravel. But to see the whole team up there, Kevin Bermark, for instance, an American rider, like, really just leading the peloton on some of these, some of the hardest, most technical roads in Europe, is just super impressive to watch. You know, just to see these guys in formation, knowing that Poga Chars wants to attack on that climb and getting them there to the front is already a victory in my mind as a team to get there all together. Super, super hard to do. And it was very impressive to watch. And going back to your very eloquent brief breakdown of the highlights of the race, let's not make a mistake here. Isaac del Toro is a killer, and he was on the perfect position behind Paul Cesar. If he was able to go with Poguchar, he would have gone with Boguchar. It's not like he held back and stayed on Paul's wheel just to. Just to make it more tactically difficult. If he had the strength there to go, he would have. I mean, it's just an indication of how much better Poguchar is than anybody else right now or has been for the last several years. Nobody can touch him. First race of the year. No matter what he does, he can race the Tour UAE like he did last year, come to Strada Bianca and beat everybody this year. This is his first race of the year. He's just been training up until now. A lot of these guys have all been racing stage races. So it's like you think, oh, maybe he hasn't raced yet this year, maybe he'll be a little bit weaker. Nope, doesn't matter. He can just come into the hardest race of the year thus far and just ride everybody off his wheels. So it's just. There's no stopping this guy. And it's just. Yeah, just. It's. We're witnessing history. Every time he jumps on a bike, it's. It's special to see how good he is, how good his team is and how good the others are. I mean, Paul Seychelles, 19 years old, I think Johan said, you said he's going to turn 20 in September.

[D]

I mean, he's essentially 20 years a teenager still.

[C]

Essentially a junior rider. Yeah. Getting second place. Dropping Isaac del Toro, who just dropped the best riders in the world last week in uae. I'm just really impressive stuff. And, you know, maybe he won't get the attention he deserves because Boguchar still rode away from everybody, but it's still super impressive and really exciting to. To. To. To see such a young kid beating the best of the rest of the world.

[E]

Yeah. I mean, if you look at Cesas, you know, I mean, and also, don't forget, you know, this guy's young, and there's already a tremendous amount of pressure on him. Everybody was saying, okay, if there's one guy who can follow, okay, he couldn't follow him. But, you know, he stayed there for a long time on that mall summary. And what's really impressive is that afterwards, he did the majority of the work, whether they were with two or with the breakaway then or the group that joined them. He just did all the work or the majority of the work and then still rode away. That says something about the engine of a guy. You know, he's a big engine. He's, for the moment, not able to touch. But, yeah, I mean, there's no. There's not been any surprises in this race. I think one of the. One of the questions was, before this race, okay, what's. We didn't have any indication because Pugacha hadn't raced yet. Right. So we just have to go off what we saw on social media, you know, a training ride. He did. He published his data. He did a record on Cipresa last week, I think. So obviously, we knew he was good, but, you know, how good is he going to be? And the question is, is he the same or a bit better than I'm gonna go? For the moment, he's the same as usual. And that's already.

[D]

Which is not. That's not a necessarily negative thing.

[E]

It's already scary for everybody. But. But I'm not excluding. I'm not excluding that he's still gonna be a bit better than last year. This year.

[C]

It's interesting, too. Sorry, how I heard on tv, like, he will not be doing a stage race until the. I think, was it the next Grand Tour? Correct me if I'm wrong. Like, he's.

[E]

No, no, no, no. He does tour the Swiss. No.

[D]

Well, I'm going to tour Swiss to watch him, so he better be doing it. Hold on a second now I'm. I'm feeling frazzled. I Think he's doing a spring one. He's doing. No, you're right. It's Tour Switzerland.

[C]

I think, I think it's. Yeah. The next one is. And Tour Switzerland is now only a five day race. It's not like the typical ten day race.

[E]

Was he not for Randy.

[D]

I swear he was on there. I swear I remember him.

[E]

I heard that somewhere. I've heard Rand.

[D]

I, I thought he sat in that room.

[C]

And it's still a different approach. I mean no sage races this spring. Let's just say for most of the. And still arguably will probably win all the one day races he does. It's just, it's wild that the approaches they take.

[E]

Today I was, today I was with Johnny Buno in the car. Right. And, and he said he is almost convinced that Pulachar is winning Milan San Remo by attacking on the Chipresa.

[D]

That's still. We'll get that, we'll get to that after the break.

[E]

Hold on.

[D]

Well that, that is interesting to think about. But it's interesting you bring that up George, because he's, he's almost not a stage racer. His part time job is stage racing. He's really a one day racer. Like that's what he's focusing on. It's like, oh, the Tour's here, I better go to Switzerland and get ready for that. And he's going to Tour. But Johan and I were talking a few weeks ago. The reason people might be asking what's the big deal? Get on his wheel, follow him, drop him, sprint him. What is going on? Well, if you looked at those power numbers, they were thrown up on the screen.

[C]

He.

[D]

When it's a, when it's a course like this and it's this demanding, this much climbing, there's no one else in the world who can put out the raw power and be as light as him. We're basically done. Like if you look at the one day races that are this challenging, nobody can challenge them. It's not close. The only one we can hope for is Paul Seychelles in the future. Like he is monopolizing these hilly one day races. I just, I've never seen anyone be able to put out this much power. I was, I was asking to ask you guys this. So Paul Seychelles last week does let's say 465 watts for almost 20 minutes. At 64 kilos, I believe that's a better watt per kilo than Lance Armstrong when he would do his Madone test before the Tour because was he about 72 kilos?

[E]

Yeah. 72.

[D]

Not so easy to follow these guys. And that guy. And that's the guy getting second. So it's. It's a lot harder than just saying, like, hey, why don't you guys just. Just follow the attack and drop them? Also, did you guys notice aero bikes on the gravel last year? UAE was not riding their aero bike. They were riding it this year. And Cervelo is on an ultra aero bike as well, like that. I think we're in the era of the aero bike. If they're doing it at this race, like, maybe they won't at Rubai, but I can't imagine there's any race where they're not riding it at this point.

[C]

And.

[D]

And obviously helps the solo breakaways.

[C]

Well, just. And just going back to his power to weight, like, yeah, nobody can touch his power to weight, and that's crazy impressive. But we already know that. For me, the most impressive thing is just how good he is at positioning and has no fear and staying in the front of the peloton. These races are all about, like, how you can stay in the front while saving energy. Well, that's not even a question with him anymore. He's at the front of any section he wants to be at, whether it's Strada Bianca, Paris, Roubaix, Tor Flanders, Milan, San Remo. This is so much. This is like, one of the hardest things in cycling is, like, to be able to maneuver your way around the peloton. That is not even an issue for him. He is there whenever he wants to be there, and not only by himself with his whole team. So it's just. It makes it that much harder to beat him or to try. To try to present a different tactic as another team, like, whether it's decathlon or Visa. Lisa bike, like, what do you do to beat this guy? I don't think anybody has the answer. Certainly nobody has the answer.

[D]

Don't show up like Vanderpoel.

[C]

Yeah, that's exactly.

[E]

No, I mean, the thing is also, you know, you could say, well, you know why people say, okay, why don't they just let him go and then get organized behind. The thing is, when P. When the moment of P are. The moment is that he leaves, he. He takes off. Everybody's in the limit, and everybody is already isolated. There's nobody left with teammates because the UAE has made it so. So hard that it just blows up. And it takes a very long time to. I mean, now you could see he was by himself, and then first there was two guys together. Of, of course, it was only sage sh. But once there were four riders relaying, that's whatever they had left. They had nothing else left. This, you know, it was basically everybody's on autopilot after the. It's. And, and imagine this is a 200 kilometer race in a monument. It's even worse because that's last hour is basically. George, you've raced a lot of those. It's just, you know, dragging yourself to the finish with whatever you have left.

[D]

And if you noticed at this race, the only time they made headway was when it was Seychelles pulling alone. The group is actually sl because when there's this many climbs, they're losing time every climb if they're sticking together. So it almost doesn't help you to have a big group. It's why it's so difficult to put up a fight here. Yeah, 10 guys not as strong as the guy away aren't going to help you.

[C]

Yeah, Pik made a little a bit of a difference when he attacked. You know, you would think maybe if Pik SA and went Ben Arts Jurgenson get together, but like Johan said, these guys are running on fumes. They're doing everything they can. They can maybe cut the gap 20 seconds, but then poker chart just keeps the same pace and he just brings the gap back up to 140, 152 minutes. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's, it's hard to, to imagine beating this guy in any, in any way.

[E]

What was really impressive today for me to see like firsthand was, you know, we were on at the end of Monte San Marie and so we were watching it on our phone and we saw Pogachia going and Seychelles stayed there for quite a bit, you know, like 10 meters, 20 meters, then came back a little bit. And initially that gap was not very big, you know, and basically two minutes afterwards, all of a sudden the cars are there, like really fast. I thought they were still 3, 4 km away. They were there. And Pugacha comes a huge gap. I mean, crazy gap straight away. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And also forgot apparently said it before the end of the race, that he was, he was expecting Isaac to make the first move. And then they interviewed Isaac and he's like, oh, that's funny. I, I have not heard that. So he likes to play these little. He likes to play these little mind games with his competitors, his teammates, for instance, because arguably coming into this race we saw how strong and how dominant Isaac del Toro was in uae. So people might think, well, maybe he's as strong as Boguchar. He did a faster time than Poguchar did in, in the UAE climb. So you know, there's that, there's a little bit of a sense of excitement. Like well, maybe we're actually going to see a battle amongst teammates. But no, it's, it's, he's still head over heels better than anybody.

[D]

He probably is better than Pagachar at one day races at that age though. So there's still. These guys are coming. Seychas and Del Toro are coming. Like Pagachar at some point will not be winning these because Spencer, I think,

[C]

I think you're Spencer, you might be right when Pagato decides to quit to retire. But right now I don't see that happening.

[E]

I think the difference though, the difference with Pugacha at that age is it's very different because remember when Pugach was 19, 20 years old, he was, he looked like a kid.

[D]

Yep.

[E]

He was absolutely not formed or optimized or, you know, I keep saying, you know, let's not forget that Bogachar won his first Tour de France not being absolutely 100 formed professional. He looked different. He was not. He didn't look like a great athlete. I mean he's, I mean he, he won the Tour but he, he, he, he transformed afterwards when he started, you know, he didn't have a nutritionist. He didn't, he didn't know he was doing in training. And I think that's the difference with, with, with especially with Seychelles and del Toro that they are already like super top professionals at that age.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And was not, I mean he's obviously he is now and he, and that's how he got so much better. But he managed to win two times the tour without being 100 professional in my opinion. That's what I, from, from, from, from the outside. I, that's, that's an observation.

[C]

Well, no, I mean we've heard that when he, he won two to Tour de Francis, then he got beat by Jonas and then like then he really started focusing on his training and since then we've seen the dominance where nobody can touch him. So yeah, I would agree with you on.

[D]

Let's take a quick break and then I'm going to give you guys some, some crazy stats and then we're going to talk about how can this be stopped from happening next weekend. But we'll be right back.

[F]

Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature Select Boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for 2.97 per pound limit. One plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5 members price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit Safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature Select. Boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for 2.97 per pound limit. One plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5 member price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit Safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.

[D]

So yeah, Pagatra wins solo. Surprising. Not surprising probably. Do you guys know in the last 23 major one day races, and this is monuments, world Championships, Olympics and Strata, how many were one solo?

[C]

No, but I'm sure you about to tell us.

[D]

It's 21 of 23. And what's crazy is of those 21 solo wins, it's only three riders. Pagat, your Vanderpoel and Runcovena. Pull. That's crazy, isn't it?

[C]

Yeah, that is crazy.

[D]

Yeah. And then these are Pagato's solo major one day wins since March 2022, not even that long ago. So today, Strada Bianchi 78k solo Illombardia 33 European champ 75 World Championship 67 Liege by stone Liege 35 Tour Flanders 18k Strada Bianchi last year 18k Lombardy of the year before that 49k World Championships year before that 52k GP Montreal 23k solo Liege based on Liege 2024 25k solo Strada Bianchi 2024 81k solo Lombardia 2331k solo Amstel Gold 2329k solo Tour Flanders 2317k solo Strada Bianchi 2022 50k solo that's an average solo distance of 42km. Just in the last three or four years. That is. That is unbelievable. And I don't think I. I wonder if like Pagacha at some point will not be winning these, but the performance from the two guys behind him, they made me wonder like, is this just here to stay? Like when he's not winning them solo, will somebody else be doing it or Will we ever see a return to small bunch finishes at the end of one day races?

[C]

Yeah, I mean I'm watching today for instance, I'm watching the second group and thinking this is, this would be super exciting if there were.

[D]

I was thinking that too.

[C]

That's kind of like what we remember cycling to be like. But I guess this is new cycling.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

And it's smart, I guess because if, if you think about Peter Sagan would always get put in these traps. You know, he flittered away a lot of one day wins because of that. It's like, well, if you're the strongest rider, just go from 100k out, why not? Who's going to chase you down? And I worry like if Paul, I worry like if Paul Seychelles sees that, is he going to think maybe I'll just go solo all the time and we'll never see a return to interesting racing ever again. But having said that, I think the one race that can save us is Milan Sanremo next week. And I think it's become the best race on the calendar because it's a wide variety of people can win. You know, when the action is the, the end is. It builds up to so much excitement. Johan, you said your friend Gianni Buno thinks it's in the bag for Bagatra. I'm not so sure. What do you guys think? Like, what are the keys to stopping Pagacha next week at San Remo?

[C]

Is it next weekend or two weekends from now?

[D]

Two weeks. Because next weekend's period.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

I think, I think the key is the zone between the Chipresta and the Podgio and how they manage that. So Pogacha can get away on the Chipresa? Yes, but, but Milan San Remo is a different race. It is a race where people can get back together. It's completely different, you know, so even if he gets away on the Tipresa, I could still see some kind of organization behind him. And that, that, that section between the Gipresa and the Poggio is complicated. It's going to depend on the wind. Also the fact that he set a new record on the Tipressa means obviously that he wants to try there to go away. Last year was, was Vanderpool in Ghana? No. Who stayed with him? Yeah, yeah. He didn't drop them on the chip pressa. None of was gonna drop. No, I don't think he was like

[D]

dangling and then he, you know, he used this Ghana power to kind of at the top. He got back on for the descent yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

Listen, I, I will, I think on, on we will see if this is the same Pogacha as always or if he just got a bit better. I mean, I don't know. I would say it is not Mission impossible. It is not Mission impossible to get organized and get him back.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Because it is the most accessible race for a lot of teams and a lot of riders in terms of, you know, having a good result and have your guys in the front. What do you think, George?

[C]

Well, and we gotta, we have to remember to suppress a. Yes, it's a hard climb. Yes, it's after 230 kilometers, but it's about 5% average. But we see Poguchar make a real difference at like anything over 8, 9, 10%. He can usually just ride away from people. 5%. You see these, these sprinters now are like world class climbers at 5% and they could do the power like a Vanderpoel. You know, he can, he, we saw him not only hang on to Pogacha, but also attack Pogacher. I think anything under 5% is a completely different ballgame. This is what makes Milan San Remo so exciting. This is what makes Milan San Remo so accessible for some of these sprinters that can climb, some of these classic riders that can, you know, do the 300 kilometer distances. So I'm going to venture to say that he's not going to be able to ride away from guys like Vanderpoel in San Remo just in the hopes of an exciting race like we saw last year. So I'm going to. I think it's a different ball game being that it's only 5% average climb.

[D]

Agree.

[E]

I agree.

[D]

Yeah, I, I think it's a very challenging. I, I would not say it's in the bag for Pagachar. It's a hard race for him to win. I'm excited to see it. Before you guys go, I, I think the middle class is in trouble, whether that be America or cycling, because I, if you're Tom Pitcock, I don't know what your lane is now that these guys, a generation younger than you, are now coming up and then now they're better than you. That's not great. But who do you guys think when Pagacha retires, who of these two, Del Toro or Seychas, is dominating the future of the sport? You go first, Johan.

[E]

I think it's, it's early to say, you know, if Seychelles is super young. It all depends, Spencer, how much margin of improvement they still Have.

[D]

How much do they have to improve though?

[E]

Well, I mean, they're. Listen, I mean they're. They're top of the world. So if they improve, it's not good news for their other rivals, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And I don't think they have that much margin of improvement left. But still, I personally think Del Toro is. I would say Del Toro. I don't know, man. I don't listen. Is damn good also. He's incredibly good. Can time trial also. Is a better time trial is than Del Toro, actually.

[D]

I know. So you wouldn't necessarily think that looking at him.

[E]

Let's, let's. I'm gonna say say shots. Probably advantageous because he's younger and his team is improving incredibly fast. They're. They know. They figured it out how to function as a team. You know, they hire. They have a huge budget. They hire good writers, good coaches, good stuff. I'm going to say I probably like Del Toro more as a writer and as a personality, but advantage say such because of his young age.

[D]

What do you think?

[C]

I'm. Oh, I'm not gonna. I'm not writing off Pickcock yet. Didn't he. I think he had a mechanical today during a really hard section.

[D]

It looks like two mechanicals.

[C]

Yeah, two mechanicals. He had some really. He had some really strong attacks with less than 25k to go. So I'm definitely not riding them off. I think he's still one of the best in the world and we'll still continue to see him win races. But if you look at what happened today in the final, I mean rewind to last year's Giro with Del Toro and Vanar. Del Toro basically rode the last sectors on the front and still almost won. The Strada Bianca stage in the Giro was a super dominant performance. And the opposite pretty much happened today. I mean, Sejas Road Del Toro for the last 30 kilometer or 25k with Del Toro on his wheel and still dropped him at the end. So I'm gonna go with the advantage to Seychas because Del Toro is in peak fitness right now. He won. He just won Tour of UAE in a dominant fashion and still wasn't able to. To be Seychelles today. And in with. With Seychelles doing most of the work. I'm probably screwing up the way you pronounce the name. I'm sure you.

[D]

All of the. All of the work.

[E]

All of the work.

[C]

All. All of the work. And he's 19 years old and

[E]

Spencer, I haven't seen the images because I was at the finish line, but one Of, I mean, maybe I'm completely crazy for thinking this, but did say Charles actually. Yeah, drop him or was, was Del Toro saying, okay, I haven't, I haven't pulled a single meter. I don't want to go for second.

[D]

It's a good question.

[C]

He's not going to sit. I, I think he's not going to sit. He's not. I think a guy like Del Toro is a killer. Even if he was going to give say shot second, he would have finished on his wheel. But he was.

[E]

That's.

[C]

Yeah, I'm thinking, I'm thinking he got dropped. And not only that, like Johan said, the team decathlon, we're seeing them at the front of, you know, opening weekend. I mean they had four or five guys there in the final group. That team is emerging to be one of the, you know, the, the, the super top teams in the, in the peloton and they're only going to keep getting better and better. I mean we saw Matteo Riccatello winning in France. They're winning all over Europe right now. And when they're not winning, they're having several guys in the first group. So I think the, the team is emerging to be one of the, the top teams in the peloton and Seychelles is, is riding without fear and although he didn't win today, wasn't able to stay with poker like 19 years old. That's super, super impressive.

[D]

It's getting to be not funny. Last year I was like, okay, yeah, French next. French hope. Yeah, right guys. And that's like, oh my, like, I don't know. This is a, this is starting to get scary. I thought he was too tall, frankly. Like, you know, the last time we had a six foot tall Grand Tour winner, I thought we were past that as a society, but I believe it was Chris Froome in 2018. Gird Italia was the last time we had a tall man win a Grand Tour. But we could be going back to that. It's, it's kind of unbelievable what he's doing. I, I don't, I, I'm like you, Johan. I, Del Toro is probably one of my favorite writers. He's my favorite young writer. I wanted to see, I want to see him succeed. But this, I was really impressed with Paul Seychast.

[E]

Well, we had today, we had, today we had a Mexican American owner group at Estrada Bianca and he was, I mean, Delta. I, I've heard the name Del to Toro all day long. Del Toro. Torito, Torito, Torito.

[C]

There's no, there's no doubt. He's, like, incredible talent. Like, he's going to keep winning races, but, I mean, you got to think going to the Tour de France with the poke chart, like, he's going to be there helping him out. You know, it's. It's. It's going to be interesting to see how the team dynamics work out. But so far, Poguchar is still head over heels better than anybody in the peloton and on his team.

[D]

So they work well together. I think I'm impressed at how well they mesh, and maybe their age difference helps that, because El Toro can probably see a future where he takes the mantle at some point. He still has work to. There's still work to be done there, and maybe he recognizes that. But, Georgian, you mentioned Pogato's positioning, and you're right. Like, it's unbelievable where he can put himself. It does not help the other teams that he has potentially the strongest. Sometimes they. Their seven or eight riders will be, you'd say, like, eight of the strongest 20 riders in the race. So that will help your positioning in some of these races. I would say, yeah, we have.

[C]

We've never seen anything like that. I mean, even with our, you know, the Cancelaras, the Tom Bonings, like, yeah, they were really good at positioning. They had good teams behind them. But to have the whole team knowing, like, everybody knows Boca Char is going to attack with 80k go today, and the whole peloton knows that, and they still can't do anything about it. Like, we've never seen that. I don't remember seeing that ever before in this sport.

[D]

No, I mean, you.

[E]

We've seen dominant riders, dominant teams, but this is so predictable. Everybody knows it, and nobody can do anything about it. That's. Yeah.

[D]

And Strata Strada is a very unique race, too. It's not. It's going to be a little more complicated when we get to the monuments later in the year. Should people run out and put a bet on Paul Seas to win the Tour de France after this weekend? No, I'm asking. Asking for a friend. The friend being.

[B]

I'm.

[D]

I'm not so sure, man.

[E]

This year.

[D]

This year's two are. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[C]

Yeah. This year, I would say that. I would say that'd be a tough one.

[D]

What. What would you have said after ted pagacha finished 2020? Did he even do Strato Bianchi? I mean, the thing I just keep thinking about is, you know, like, UAE tour 2019? Pagachar gets. No. Do you Even do that? No, he gets like 30th at 2019. Strato Bianchi. I just would never in a million years have guessed he's going to win the Tour de France in 2020. So I'm always on the lookout for the next thing I don't expect coming and I feel like this could change faster than we think. This was a really, I've never seen a teenage performance like I saw today. I, I think I'm safe to say this is the best teenage cycling performance I've ever seen in my life. Was. Paul says Seychelles is second place today.

[E]

Yeah, it was an impressive, impressive performance. Impressive performance. Now speaking of the Tour, you know we, we have to give the guy some, some. We have to be patient. You know, I mean he's never done a three week race, has he ever, has he even ever done a 10 day race? I think Dauphine is probably the longest race he's ever done.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So I mean I'm not saying he can't do it but.

[D]

Well, are there anymore?

[C]

And if you think about it, this is a, you know, this is a long term investment for a team like decathlon. He got eighth place in the Dolphin Day last year. Incredible result. He's got second place in Strada Bianca today. Like they're, they're happy with this, the riders performance right now. They're not gonna put all the pressure on the world on a 19 year old kid to win the Tour de France this year. I think they're super happy with the progression and they're focusing on the future of Paul Seychelles. They're happy with the way everything is going. Yeah, I wouldn't expect them to put much pressure on him this year. I think the Tour de France for him this year is about learning, using his team, getting confidence and whatever result they get I think they'll be happy with. Because they're thinking long term with false

[D]

H. Yeah, I agree. Do riders, I know the team would be thinking that. Do riders that good ever think like that though? Like I'm just here to learn.

[E]

I mean they're, they're impatient. Right. Also Spencer, we need to, doesn't have that much to learn. You know, he, he, he races like a true veteran. You know, he's in the front whenever he has to be in the front and when he attacks it hurts. And, and other than that he tries to follow the big rider. So the learning I think is, it's, it's more getting his body used to, you know, multi week performances. I think that's the learning he needs to do. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, they're all talking about the Tour de France. I, I, let's give the guy. The guy some time, right? I mean, yeah, we all know everybody expects sports, I just to be on the podium, you know, what if he's on the podium? No big deal. No big deal.

[D]

It's.

[E]

It's not a problem. He'll get there eventually. Oh, yeah.

[D]

I would say it's safe to say if a teenager does not make the podium at the Tour, he's not a bum. We don't have to write him up. It's funny. Oh, go ahead.

[C]

It's also, it's also super exciting that, like, we have all these new podium contenders, you know, Paul Seychelles, and he's act del Toro. And of course, you got Remco Jonas. It's making the, the Tour de France a lot more exciting, in my opinion.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny you mentioned the dopamine, because he's eighth at 18. I'm like, that's pretty good result. Pretty good results. And then just how he's. Like, the curve since then has been. He's significantly better than that result, which is, to me, that's the most impressive thing, how we improve from 18 to 19. Like, he didn't stagnate. You see a lot of guys stagnate when they get a result like that, but we also. I'm excited to see how this goes. I think, I think we're seeing the first flowers of spring emerge from the Tate Pagacha nuclear winter that we've been in. And we have Perry Nice tomorrow with Jonas Van der Guard versus one of you. So another interesting intergenerational battle to watch. And then Johanna will be back on Friday to discuss how that race is going. But thanks, guys, for joining. We'll let you get to dinner. Unless you have anything else to add before we go.

[E]

I think that's it. Thank you very much.

[D]

Well, thank you so much. Enjoy your lovely Italian dinner while I get a.

[E]

And tomorrow. Tomorrow George and I and all of our friends here ride. Yeah, tomorrow. Tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow we ride this Friday. Bianca.

[C]

Yeah. How long do we finish? Do we finish in the. In Siena?

[E]

Okay, Same start, same finish?

[C]

Yeah. Awesome.

[D]

Like 100k or something.

[E]

100? No, no, it's 138 kilometers.

[D]

What are you each riding? What's the, what's the machine?

[E]

I'm riding a gravel bike with road wheels.

[D]

32, 35.

[E]

The tires. I'm riding tires. George, what do you ride?

[C]

I'M running. I'm running my factor with 30 mil tires.

[D]

30 miles.

[B]

Whoa.

[E]

George is.

[C]

George, they were fine yesterday.

[E]

George is still riding like the real cyclists. You know, it's just road bike, road bike, normal wheels tire, road tires. You know, I'm going for, I'm riding my Ventum GS1 single, single chain ring and a huge mountain bike cassette in the back with 35 millimeter tires. So.

[D]

Well, when I was at the UAE team camp, they were testing 35 mils on the road. So you're.

[E]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Yeah. You're right there on the trends. Yeah. Johan.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Okay. All right. Well, thanks guys and have a good dinner. Thanks for joining.

[C]

Thanks. Thank you.

[F]

Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature select boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for 2.97 per pound limit. One plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5 member price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit Safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.