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- [00:00]
A
What would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation.
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B
Another pina colada.
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C
Yes, please.
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A
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B
Fantastic.
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A
Hire 36% more help.
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C
You're hired.
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D
And you're hired.
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A
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E
A vacation rental should come with support, not surprises. That's why VRBO comes with a VRBoCare guarantee and 24. 7 life support from real people. So if something goes sideways, VRBoCare can help. If the host cancels Verbocare.
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C
If the listing says heated pool, but there's actually no pool to heat.
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E
Definitely a Verbocare thing.
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C
If my teenager starts calling me Leslie
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E
instead of mom, that's a family thing, Leslie.
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C
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E
Book with support, not surprises. VRBO care and 24. 7 life support. If you know you're VRBO terms apply. See vrbo.com trust for details.
- [00:59]
C
Yeah, okay, but listen, we're talking here about another caliber of rider, Spencer. You know, I think we, you know, Jonas doesn't get enough credit for what he has accomplished already. Let's not forget this is a double Tour de France winner and a Vuelta winner. You know, this is a guy who has shown already that he is an incredible good stage racer over three weeks. So I would say even more. Cannot forget that.
- [01:25]
B
Even more impressive than that. I don't think he's finished below second in a Grand Tour since 20. 20. 20 maybe. So, yeah, that. That's super impressive. But.
- [01:34]
C
And the only. The only guy he lost to was Espogar.
- [01:40]
B
Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernal. We are breaking down stage 10 of the Giro d', Italia, a 42 long individual. Sorry, 42 kilometer long individual time trial won by, you guessed it, Felipe. Ghana, 1 minute and 54 seconds ahead of second place as team 8 time in Ahrensmann with Remy Cabana coming in third. 1 minute 59 seconds back in terms of the GC, Ironsman was the top GC finisher with Derek G. West 20 seconds behind him, finishing 2:16 behind Ghana. And then the big story of the day, Jonas Vinegar, the presumed favorite, the eventual winner of this race, many people assume was three minutes behind Ghana. So that's over a Minute behind Timon Arensmann and showing just I guess how, how maybe mediocre his day was. He lost time to Ben O Connor. He also did not put a ton of time into the the race leader Ulario, who still has the race lead by 27 seconds and was actually taking time out of Indard coming in to the final few kilometers. Yo, yo. Not Jonas. Johan, you told me I have not fact checked this but that Jonas lost 20 seconds inside the final 4km of racing to Ahrensman. I. It's. If it's not true, it's close to true. To Ghana. To Ghana. Okay, okay. But something I did note and notice is after T2 so he went through the second intermediate time check pretty like pretty strongly compared to Ahrensman. And then he starts bleeding time so he loses 0.58. So so basically half a second per kilometer to Arnoldsman between time check 1 and time check check 2. But between time check 2 and 3 it's 2.4 seconds per km and then time check 3 to the finish it's almost 3 seconds a kilometer. He was standing up a lot, which is unusual for him even on a road stage. Not advisable on a time trial stage. And he stopped pedaling before the finish. He's kind of coasted in through the finish line. None of those are great signs that you're comfortable or feeling good in a time trial. But what was your takeaway from the stage, Johan?
- [03:48]
C
Well, take away first of all, of course not a surprise. Ghana wins. Ideal time trial for him, 42km which is very unusual. So nobody's really used to those kind of distances anymore in, in Grand Tours. But, but above all Spencer, the, the, the dominance and the speed. I mean 55 kilometers. 40. 54.9 something. 55 kilometers per hour. This, this is the fastest time trial ever in a Grand tour of more than 40km. I think it was since 2003 when David Miller won a flattish time trial. I think. I'm not. I don't remember now where it was,
- [04:33]
B
but I think it was a non right. 2003 tutor fronts was.
- [04:38]
C
Yeah, could be. Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:41]
B
It's crazy that actually that it's taken that long to beat that if you consider how good their was today.
- [04:47]
C
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. So yeah, well, I mean first of all Spencer, the main reason is that there are no more 40 plus kilometer time trials.
- [04:56]
B
That's a very good point. Yeah. Hard, hard to beat it when you don't do it.
- [05:01]
C
Yeah. So. So yeah, I mean super dominant performance of Ghana. I mean two minutes to everybody, his own teammate 157 and then everybody else more than two minutes. That was the main takeaway. And then the average time trial I would say of Jonas wingergaard, he finishes 13th, you could say. Well, last year in the Tour de France he also finished 13th in the first flat time trial was also 30 something kilometers. But this is not the same competition I think I expected Jonas to be. Except, except aren. I expected him to be the best of the GC riders and today he was not. Derek G was better, Ben o' Connor was better. And then Hindley and Pilizar were better, not far behind him. So I, I think that says that Jonas did an average time trial. Not, not a great time trial. Takes less time than everybody expected. On Felix g, he takes 1 minute 22 seconds. Still considerable for somebody who didn't do a great time trial. And I, as I said yesterday, you know, he, he, he, he was not going to be able to get Ulalio out of the pink jersey. Defended the jersey pretty well. He's still leading with 27 seconds, I think. But I think that's the, that's the main. Nobody's surprised about Ghana's winning. I'm surprised he took so much time on everybody. But at the same time it should not be real surprise. This was his main goal of the whole Giro. He's been preparing for this in the race already for the last three, four days, saving as much possible energy. All the others who are close, probably not. So anyways, impressive performance. Impressive performance at that speed over 40k, that's, that's really something else. But I think that the majority of the fans and the people from within the race are probably surprised that Jonas was not putting his stamp on the race today. Having said that, you know, he is still the big favorite. He is, if I'm not mistaken, almost two minutes ahead of his next rival, which is now aren'tman. And then two and a half minutes I guess on, on Felix G. So you know, after, you could say after one mountain stage and one time trial, it's not a bad situation. I know you have probably some other opinion about that, but, but I think overall it's, it's the, the outcome is not bad. Although I think that today they, there may be some doubts about his form. I'm not particularly worried about it for him, but, but I think that people would have expected a more dominant performance if, if I'm being honest.
- [08:04]
B
Well, so he's 130 over Ahsman in the GC and then okay, about two minutes on. Two minutes on goal. And. Okay, right under that 157 under Gall, I believe. Just. I. I don't know if I'm con. Like, if Jonas is at this shape we saw today and he finishes the race, he probably wins it overall. Like, he won the up. The last uphill finish last summer finish. Maybe he was sitting on more than. You know, we're kind of in our own little bubble. We don't. We. We're not in Italy consuming Italian media. But that was quite controversial. Johan. People were upset about that.
- [08:37]
C
Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah, I saw a lot of people being upset about my.
- [08:43]
B
I would say if you're upset about that, try to go sit on somebody's wheel while you ride.
- [08:48]
C
Spencer, what we really should, you know, try to figure out is, you know, okay, people are upset about it. I think what really counts is are his rivals and rival teams upset. I'm going to say no. I think nobody was blaming Jonas and Visma for what they were doing the other day on that uphill finish where Felix Gal attacked and. And then finally he. Jonas attacked with 900 meters to go. It's the most logical thing to do. Especially let's not forget, you know, let's not forget that Jonas is not at. Not at his top form. And. And, you know, although he says it's not true, but he has the Tour de France in the back of his mind. He knows that he needs to be better at the Tour than in the Giro. So I can understand that he rides as economic as possible by saving himself energy and by saving his team as much as possible, because they still have their work cut out for the rest of the Giro, which, in typical Giro fashion, what we've seen until now is nothing compared to what's still ahead in terms of mountain stages. And. And so there's still a lot to come. So you need to basically take it day by day and. And try to save energy as much as you can.
- [10:06]
B
Yeah, especially his team is gonna have. Yeah, that's gonna be a bear of a project controlling the race in the third week. But here's. I. I just want to say I think if he continues at this form, he probably wins the overall. A couple data points that I find a little concerning. So just in this time trial, I would.
- [10:22]
C
I would. I would change the. The word probably to for sure.
- [10:27]
B
Well, would you.
- [10:28]
C
If he. If he. Yo.
- [10:29]
B
Have you forgot what race we're talking about here? This thing is insane. Remember last year? Would you have guessed? Simon Yates wins that race? Crazy stuff. Happens. Remember the. No Steven Koi. Who would have said krok's gonna lose that I'd be crazy.
- [10:44]
C
Yeah, okay, but listen, we're talking here about another caliber of Ryder Spencer. You know, I think we. You know, Jonas doesn't get enough credit for what he has accomplished already. Let's not forget this is a double Tour de France winner and a Vuelta winner. You know, this is a guy who has shown already that he is an incredible good stage racer over three weeks.
- [11:06]
B
So I would say even more.
- [11:09]
C
We cannot forget that.
- [11:10]
B
Even more impressive than that, I don't think he's finished below second in a Grand Tour since 2020.
- [11:16]
C
Maybe.
- [11:16]
B
So. Yeah, that. That's super impressive. But.
- [11:19]
C
And the only. The only guy he lost to was Espag. Chart.
- [11:22]
B
Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.
- [11:25]
C
But he's not here.
- [11:27]
B
Couple data points. He will lose. The thing, though. He will lose at some point. Like, that's what we all have to wrap our heads around is all these guys will lose. It happens. It will happen. So he loses 1.6 seconds per km to Ahnsman today. That's not. Actually. When we consider the buffer he has over Arnsman. It's not a disaster. And if you go back to the Tour last year at the stage. What was that stage five time trial, 33 kilometers long. He. He loses 1.9 seconds to Bagachar. So, you know, actually there's precedent for this. Why he's getting. Why he seems to be getting worse at Grand Tour time trials. Long ones, flat ones is a little. That's maybe another question for another day. But last year at the Tour, like, he's beating Ben o', Connor, you know, today he's losing to Ben o' Connor and losing so much time late in the race. When we consider the fact that. Go back to stage seven, he loses time in the last 4K. He's coming back to those guys. That makes me wonder, is something not right here? Is this not just bad form?
- [12:30]
C
That's something. First of all, Spencer, bad form. No, you can, like, man, let's call
- [12:35]
B
it managed form or whatever the project is here. Okay.
- [12:41]
C
The thing is, we don't know, right? We don't know what's happening. I mean, you know, apparently there's. I mean, there's a rumor that there's a virus in the. In the stomach buck in the. In the peloton, for example, J Hint, Jai Hindley and Giulio Belizari were not yesterday not able to go and recon the time trial because they had stomach problems. And so they they decided to just, you know, stay at the hotel and manage their energy as. As good as possible. And apparently there's a lot of. A lot of teams who have sick riders. Visma has been asked the question. They say they have nobody who is ill or sick, but of course, you know, if it would be the case and especially if it would be Jonas, they won't say that. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Jonas is sick. They're not going to say it, you know, so we don't know. We don't know exactly what's. What's happening. But. But I mean, okay, I think. I think everything's also a bit out of proportion because of the huge gap that Ghana created. And then, of course, you know, like, Jonas loses three minutes on Ghana, but, you know, he loses one minute to Aren'tsman, who is his, you know, the biggest rival in the best time trialist of the GC.
- [14:00]
B
Guys. He does only gain 122 over Gaul, which you would have been shocked by right at the start of the stage.
- [14:05]
C
Not. Not really. Not really. Not really. Let's not forget Gal is in great shape. You know, somebody who's in good shape, and we're already 10 days in the race, you know, go. I mean, I mean, he did. I'm not gonna say he didn't have a good day.
- [14:20]
B
He didn't even have a good time trial. Yeah, that's the craziest. I mean, Egan Bernal had a bad time trial today. Here, let's say you don't watch the stage, you don't know what happened. I run up to you on the street, I say, Jonas Finnegaard beat Egan Bernal, who had a bad day, by 47 seconds. The first thing you would ask me is, where did he crash? You know, you would think something had gone wrong.
- [14:43]
C
No, it's true. I mean, he definitely should have been at least five places higher up, you know, so. But I repeat, you know, if I look at this from, from, from the team perspective and the team manager, I said, okay, you know what? Not great, but our overall situation is pretty good. You know, we had one big mountain stage, we had one time trial, and we are virtually in the lead. And today was the day that Arensmond had to take time on Jonas because he's not going to take more time in mountain stages. The only guy who's really worrying for Jonas is Felix Gao. Other than that, there's nobody he should be worried about, in my opinion. And so it looks pretty good.
- [15:31]
B
Probably
- [15:34]
C
question, Spencer, was it. I mean, it's a joke. Was it the skin suit?
- [15:39]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [15:42]
C
Apparently Visma said that their skin suit that they've been working on the whole off season is a minute faster over 40k. Now he was riding in the blue, the blue skin suit of Castelli, which is not bad either, by the way. I mean, I repeat, I think it's completely nuts that professionals cycling at this level, the best cyclists who have, and the best teams who have invested all that, all their resources in getting as fast as possible, then on the key days are not, are not able to wear their own clothing. It's like, you know, it's like saying, okay, you know what? For the time trials we have a sponsor. For the time trial bikes, they sponsor the lead.
- [16:26]
B
Exactly.
- [16:27]
C
You have to ride that bike. It's a bit extreme.
- [16:30]
B
And if, but only if you're in the lead, everybody else gets to ride their awesome bike.
- [16:34]
C
Yeah, yeah, but speaking, listen, speaking of speaking. Speaking of skin suits and you know, marginal gain. Spencer, I just want to bring up, I mean, I didn't want to talk about it, but I have to, I have to. You know, we're talking about all these teams with their huge budgets and their super advanced programs. Felix Gall. What the hell was that, man? I don't know if Gabriel can pull up the picture here of Felix Gall coming over the finish with. So, I mean, decathlon, what is it called? Decathlon? Cma, CMG or cgm? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Decathlon, cma, cgm. You know, team decathlon. And your management and specialist performance managers and scientists and arrow gurus. What, what was that? This guy. I mean, I don't have, I don't
- [17:34]
B
think it was the arrow guru's decision we should say.
- [17:37]
C
Well, yeah, I mean, look, I mean it's clear that if you see this, this helmet, it's a. Nowadays, you know, the, the, the tendency is to, to go to bigger helmets, to form one unit with the shoulders and that makes a lot of sense, but it's with an integrated visor and it kind of
- [17:52]
B
has to have the visor or else you just catch it.
- [17:55]
C
So I think Felix G doesn't like the visor. Took the visor off and rode normal. Normal. But this is not aero, Felix. I mean, you are already not aero, but mean. Plus, I mean, come on, it just looks really bad. It's. This is anti publicity for modern cycling.
- [18:12]
B
It start. My son only has nice things to say about how he loves these pro helmets. And he goes, why does it look so ugly? I'm like, but, but then also look,
- [18:21]
C
if you see if you see the comparison with. With Felix G. And then underneath Jonas Wingergaard with the red, I mean, there. Here you see the difference of what it did. So. Yeah, that was. That was really. That was a joke, man. That was a joke. I mean, I remember, you know, many years ago, I think it was. What was it, 2020 or 2021? When. When primos was riding that weird laser helmet in. In the tour.
- [18:49]
B
I think it was last time small or something. Yeah, it was like, you know, everybody's
- [18:53]
C
making fun of him, but this. This. This is. This is like. This is next level, man. This. This was really bad. Really bad.
- [19:01]
B
And you have to imagine this.
- [19:02]
C
Did you think the same thing?
- [19:04]
B
Yeah, I thought something was wrong. I was like, oh, no. Like he's forgotten something. I have to imagine it was a comfort decision. This can't. It cannot be speed based. But this.
- [19:14]
C
No, no, no, no, no.
- [19:15]
B
Even goes. It makes it even more shocking. He only lost 122 to Vindergaard.
- [19:21]
C
Well, I don't understand, Spencer, because, you know, decathlon is known now as, you know, the team on the up, you know, big budget. They brought in a lot of people, a lot of smart people. They invested a lot. They have. Apparently they have great bikes. And then you do this stupid maneuver. It's like, this must be okay. Felix Gall, who doesn't like the visor, but hey, man, listen, if it's faster, whether you like it or not, you should wear it, man. It's like, it makes no sense.
- [19:48]
B
I think he kind of marches to the beat of his own drum is the feeling I get. I don't remember. There was. I don't know, welter, where he was like off the back every day when they needed him. And then he was almost winning stages some days. I think Phyllis G. Is he. He's doing his own. He's got his own program going on.
- [20:07]
C
I think somebody should have told a man, hey, listen, we put so much research and. And time in this. You're wearing this helmet, man. This is. This is for your own good.
- [20:14]
B
Yeah, I don't. I don't get it. It's kind of. It's a Definitely a little bit of an own goal there. I should also mention, so much time and money goes into these skin suits. As we say Arrow trying to be Arrow. And then what's it. Lorenzo Malaysia. Your. Your new best friend.
- [20:31]
C
Yeah.
- [20:32]
B
Gets ninth on the stage wearing his ice vest because he forgot to take it off. Can you imagine how unaerodynamic that is compared to the skin?
- [20:40]
C
That's. That's Yeah, I saw his interview. He was, I mean, he was joking and he was. I mean, first of all, he was admitting. He said, yeah, such a stupid mistake. He was. So he had an ice cooling, cooling down vest on before the time trial went on the ramp. You know, he was. They were counting down and all of a sudden he realized he had his ice vest still on, which is already awesome. Why is nobody telling him, hey, you have your ice vest on? But he did the whole time trial with the ice vest on and he finished ninth in the time trial.
- [21:11]
B
That's crazy.
- [21:13]
C
This guy, I mean, he's in great shape, he's in great condition. And that's not. This guy's an ex world champion time trial under 23, by the way. But, you know, I mean, it shows you to, you know, it's, it's, it's all. It's about the power. Without the vest, we don't know how much faster. We would definitely not have won. But maybe he was in the top five without the vest.
- [21:35]
B
I would have to imagine he would have been. And just to give people a feeling for, you know, what was what people are running here. So Ghana, we have his power at about 460 watts for the effort. And I mean that maybe there's probably people listening to this and saying, 460 for 40 minutes. I could do that easy in my sleep. But the thing is, though, you look at him in this time trial, he was so arrow the whole time. It is not easy to produce that power when you're in that position. That's what makes him special. Like, that's also what makes Remco Evanipole unbeatable. Right, because he can just tuck himself down and keep his power high. And Ghana almost. He almost appeared to be increasing his speed and power throughout the day. Like every time check. His average speed was higher than the time check before. I think his fastest time check was the slightly uphill one. It was like a 2% uphill. He's going 57k an hour up that thing. He would probably get pulled over on most streets because he's going over the speed limit at that speed and his gear. It's kind of interesting gearing that Johan told me about. Ghana was running a 64 tooth, big chain ring. Single chain ring, I assume.
- [22:38]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:39]
B
Diamond Arnsman, 66 tooth. Jonas Vinegar, 68 tooth. So bigger than Ghana. Significantly bigger.
- [22:46]
C
That's crazy. That's great. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, especially like, okay, I'm, of course I'm Old school now. Remember, I remember we were riding 53, 54. I remember my first year on, when I was on Onse, which was the time trial team back then. You know, first, first race I did was Tour of Valencia. And we had this special time trial bikes. And I took the. I got on the bike and I checked this 180 cranks and 56 chainring. I could almost not move it, you know. Yeah, but that was back then, right. I think it, you know, the, the big chainring in the front makes sense. Especially we've done a little bit of comparison. If you're, you know, 64, 66, 13 or 14, you can keep a high cadence and, and you, you, you go very fast and the, the chain is in the middle. There's less friction with a bigger chainring because, you know, the circle is bigger.
- [23:45]
B
You want the biggest circles at every point, basically. Yeah.
- [23:48]
C
So anyway, 68 looks incredible big.
- [23:53]
B
Almost bigger than his chain rings.
- [23:56]
C
Like. Yeah.
- [23:58]
B
These pedals barely go past the chain.
- [24:00]
C
Right.
- [24:00]
B
It's crazy.
- [24:01]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But listen, I mean, I think Jonas had a really high cadence. You know, he was always between 95 and 100 cadence. So they've done, they've done the tests. It's a bit difficult for me to. I will say he did like, why Jonas would ride with a 68.
- [24:20]
B
Yeah.
- [24:21]
C
And Ghana with a 64. That makes no sense.
- [24:23]
B
Well, you know, and it would be a different story if we said, wow, he looked amazing on that thing. He looked awful. He looked so uncomfortable. And you're like, yeah. Is that chain ring too big? Would be my first question.
- [24:35]
C
Yeah. I don't know if that's. I mean, listen, it's. It's huge. It's huge. I don't know what the. If that's reason of his average time trial, but I mean, I think, you know, after all, he saved the day and he is where he wants to be. I think that's the most important after today's time trial and.
- [24:56]
B
Well, let's take a quick break then I'm going to ask you. I. I want to ask you a couple more questions about this illness and then preview tomorrow's stage. So we'll be right back. Hey, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Caldera Lab makes high performance skincare designed specifically for men's skin. This is important since men's skin is 25% thicker, oilier, and ages differently from women's, which means men need clean formulas engineered for their biology. Their products are powered by clean Clinically tested ingredients and breakthrough patent pending technology delivering visible results. My favorite products that I use are the great their anti aging lightweight serum. This is the product I start with. It absorbs in seconds and after a few weeks you genuinely see a difference. Skin looks firmer, brighter and just healthier overall. The second one is the hydrolayer, their anti aging moisturizer. It won the men's health grooming award for best anti aging moisturizer. Clinically proven to provide 48 hour hydration and it disappears right into your skin. They've actually proven it keeps you hydrated for two days, which is good because I'll. I'll forget to put that on. I'm just going to tell you right now. The last one is the eye serum. The anti aging eye treatment. It targets the most visible signs of aging. Puffiness, dark circles and fine lines around the eye area. That's the first. First thing people notice when they look at you. Well, fix that up right there with the ice serum. You don't have to worry about any worry about it anymore. So a small habit with big results. Go to calderalab.com themove and use code the move for 20% off. Your first order. That's caldera lab.com themove and use code themove for 20% off.
- [26:24]
F
Not every sale happens at the register. Before AT&T business Wireless checking out customers on our mobile POS systems took too long. Basically a staring contest where everyone loses. It's crazy what people will say during an awkward silence. Now transactions are done before the silence takes hold. That means I can focus on the task at hand and make an extra sail or two. Sometimes I do miss the bonding time.
- [26:48]
C
Sometimes AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.
- [26:54]
B
All right, Johan, before we preview tomorrow's stage, you mentioned that Jai Henley and Giulio Pelizarri could not preview the course yesterday because they were so sick. A stomach illness. I mean, if you've ever been traveling and you get one of these things, it. If it's. If it's so bad they couldn't preview the course, you'd imagine it's pretty bad. You feel terrible. I mean, Pelizarry finishes 3:18 back. So that's only 18 seconds slower than vinegard. And we know he was sick yesterday. That would kind of suggest there could be sickness with vinegard. Do you think this is going to be a problem for the rest of the race?
- [27:30]
C
I don't know. I don't. I mean, listen, if both Belizzari and Hindley were sick, it's not a Disaster today. Right. I mean, loses 18 seconds to Vineyard and Hindley loses 30 seconds.
- [27:43]
B
It's actually a pretty good day for both of them.
- [27:45]
C
It's not bad. Yeah, it's not bad. I mean, it helps if your. When your weekday is, you know, falling together with. With Vingegaard's average day. Right. So all in all, I think it's more or less zero operation. I think they both expected to lose time to Jonas and probably they expected to lose more time to him than what they lost today. But, yeah, I mean, you know, we don't know. I mean, this. I've heard rumors already since two days ago that Belizari was a bit sick. Now I got this report this morning that both of them had to stay in the hotel. They couldn't preview the course. So it's not good. It's not good in the middle of a. Of a stage race. You know, it weakens you. It's difficult to recover from it. And it's just a question of, you know, how. How deep is this in the team? You know, I mean, if one guy gets sick now, they're off course, going to take all the precautions, but the damage may be done already.
- [28:50]
B
Yeah, you just get. I mean, the thing is, if he is. Okay, let's. Before we tease that out, let's say he is sick, let's say he has a problem. If he had to pick one rider that's going to challenge him, who would it be?
- [29:04]
C
Challenger? Jonas.
- [29:05]
B
Yeah, for the gc.
- [29:07]
C
Faith call.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah, he's. He's two minutes back, basically, and he's losing time on every uphill finish. So you start. Starts to actually get a little difficult to imagine how somebody else wins this. That. The thing.
- [29:23]
C
I, I think. I think Felix Gal is going to stay constant on the uphills and, you know, he just has to hope that Jonas has a bad day. Yeah. Or. Or is. Or is sick. I mean, it's, It's. Nobody's free of it, you know.
- [29:40]
B
Are we underestimating Ben o' Connor at all? This guy's not that far behind. He's now 20, 24 seconds behind Felix Gall and looked fantastic today.
- [29:51]
C
Yeah, I mean, could be a podium candidate. I don't see him winning, though. I don't see him winning.
- [29:58]
B
It would. Yeah, I would be surprised if he wins. I mean, he did finish second. What. What? So what? He did finish second at the Vuelta when Primos won it in 2024. Which reminds me of our leader, Ulario. Where. Where does he finish after he's still in the Race lead. He's still two, almost two minutes in front of third place.
- [30:20]
C
Yeah, I think he can keep it till the next mountain stage. When is that? In three or four stages.
- [30:26]
B
Stage 14. So, yeah, into the week.
- [30:31]
C
So, you know, of course his team is going to do everything they can to defend. It is a gift for Visma that he's still in the lead. So it's, it's great, it's great to have a team that they know is they're going to defend. So I think he can stay. Yeah, he can stay in Pink till stage 14 and I mean he could finish top five.
- [30:55]
B
The thing is, I mean, Jonas is probably going to take the race lead on stage 14, but he was out climbing almost everybody else. So is he even going to drop that much further than second, third once
- [31:07]
C
he's out of the leader's jersey? It's a different game, Spencer.
- [31:09]
B
Okay.
- [31:10]
C
Yeah. I think, you know, now within the leaders jersey you surpass your, your limits and you go deeper and deeper, as deep as you can. And then, you know, once you're out of the leader's jersey, you kind of the balloon deflates, you know, and bit by bit you lose time. Remember who was. It was Alaphilippe in the tour when he was in yellow.
- [31:34]
B
Yep. Yeah. And he lost it. And then, I mean, that was a weird tour. And then they like kind of called off all the mountain stages a little. Actually suspect if you think about it. You're like French guy in the lead. Oh, he's dropped. Call the stage off. Cancel all the mountain stages.
- [31:50]
C
No, only two. I mean, there was one stage that was canceled because of a, you know, landslide, I guess. And then the day after day. Yeah, there was a lot of damage to the road. There was like a 40 kilometer, 40 kilometer stage. And I think Alaphilippe lost quite some time there.
- [32:05]
B
He still finished. Yeah, he did fall off the podium. He still finished fourth overall though.
- [32:10]
C
Yeah.
- [32:10]
B
So. But had that stage run as normal, finish 5th overall. Had it run as normal. That was a big day that they called off. So, yeah, probably loses that.
- [32:21]
C
That. Who finished fourth?
- [32:22]
B
That's a great question and I love to use this as a trivia question to, to bend people's perception of reality. Do you have any recollection it.
- [32:33]
C
It was not. It was not. It was not Bookman.
- [32:37]
B
It was Emmanuel Bookman.
- [32:39]
C
Oh, wow.
- [32:40]
B
Finishes fourth. And I was like, wow, look at this up and he's 156 behind the winner of the Tour de France. This guy's a star of the future.
- [32:51]
C
Never did anything.
- [32:52]
B
Never did any. I would, I would assign this guy. If I was a team manager, I'd be like, oh, wow, look at this guy. I was blown away by this. And then that is. I mean, everything change too. I mean, Covid happened and the sport looks totally different the next year. So you're not, you're not too worried about this, you think Yonis.
- [33:10]
C
I'm not worried about. No, no, no, no, no.
- [33:12]
B
Okay.
- [33:12]
C
No, I'm not. Unless he's sick. And if he's sick, of course then. But other than that. No, no.
- [33:19]
B
You bring us though to our preview of the next stage. And if he is sick, he's picked the perfect time to be sick because we have a few days of likely breakaway days. Tomorrow is 150. Sorry, I'm going backwards in time. Tomorrow is 195 kilometers. Quite a bit of climbing, 3,000 meters of climbing. But it's another one of these flat ish starts, like flattish 100K. 1, 2, 3 categorized climbs and then a descent into the finish. We're kind of working our way up into the Pre Alps, up toward Torino and Piedmont. Probably a breakaway day. And then we don't have another likely GC day. So that's two or Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday is the next big GC day. And then Sunday, Sunday, oddly a sprint day. I don't know why they do that, because that would would be be when most people are watching. But how do you think tomorrow plays out, Johan? And who's going to win this?
- [34:20]
C
Yeah, I think. I think tomorrow's a breakaway day. It's 108 kilometers. Still the first big climb. About 3000 meters I guess of elevation in total, but. But all the elevation is in the last.
- [34:33]
B
It's in the last like 90 kilometers.
- [34:36]
C
Yeah, there's four climbs, there's three categorized climbs. And then there's another climb. There's one climb Cat 2 climb with. With a very steep part at the end, like about 3 kilometers, around 9, 10%. So of course it's going to be more or less the same. The same stage like when Norweiss won his second stage. Strong breakaway, I think. But I'm also curious to see something might happen in the. In the GC or GC group also because there's. It's always a test the day after a time trial, especially the day after a long time trial like this. Some GC rider may pay the price. You know, some riders do not digest the effort of a time trial as well as others. So on that cat to climb we may see some GC action or somebody who is, you know, sick and has been hiding. It could be found out there. So I'm curious to see what's going to happen there. But definitely, I think the stage win comes from the breakaway. Difficult to predict. We're going to see the same guys, you know, but, you know, guy like Chicone. Chicone needs to be in the break and our vice is probably going to be in the breakaway again. Again, it's going to be the same guys we've seen already. MILESI yeah, I think Malaysia has a chance.
- [36:04]
B
I would, yeah, I would pick him. I think he's. Yeah, he could win the stage. I'm going to go with. Got to be. Chicone has got to be up there, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go Chicone for the stage win. I mean, looking at this profile, if you do suspect Vindegaard of being sick, these are some pretty hard climbs. You start the day with the 7.5 kilometer long climb at 5%. And then you go in, they need to send a right into a 10k long climb at 6.2%. You're still pretty far from the finish, like 56k from the finish. But you have a plateau. You descend down, you have two more categorized climbs. One more categorized climb, can that be right? And then they have a bonus sprint at the top of a 5K 6% long climb. So if it's not categorized, it should be. But these are hard climbs between that and the finish. So if someone's in trouble, you could put a lot of time into them. But who, who knows how sick anybody is? I mean, if Emily and Pelizarry couldn't leave the hotel room and then they're putting up those time trial performances today, maybe they won't be in trouble, I don't know.
- [37:05]
C
But pretty good. Pretty. Listen, pretty. If they were sick yesterday, it's pretty good outcome today. They could be happy about that. So maybe it's just. Well, I mean, who knows? It's maybe a 24 hour thing. You never know with those stomach bugs.
- [37:18]
B
You know, sometimes I wonder all this information too.
- [37:23]
C
Yeah, listen, we don't know. We don't know. But listen, Spencer, automatically, whether it's true or not, usually after 10 days, half of the peloton is sick anyway because they're so depleted, you know, and they're so at the end of their resources that whatever the tiniest little thing you're not, your body can't fight it anymore and you're coughing and you have, you know, you have runny nose or sore throat or, you know, everybody's. I mean, half of the riders are
- [37:54]
B
sick after 10 days and they're crazy skinny. That doesn't help either.
- [37:58]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:59]
B
So you're going Malaysia for the win?
- [38:02]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [38:03]
B
We go Julio Ciccone for the win. We'll see.
- [38:07]
C
Okay.
- [38:08]
B
How we. We'll see how he makes out. But anything else before we take off?
- [38:13]
C
That's it for me, Spencer.
- [38:14]
B
All right, well, we'll be back tomorrow to talk about the stage. Hopefully we have something to talk about in the GC group, but perhaps not. And we'll see you soon, Johan.
- [38:22]
C
Okay, thanks.
- [38:30]
D
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