Jonathan Milan ends Italy’s Tour stage-win drought | Tour de France 2025 Stage 8 | THEMOVE

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Episode Summary: "Jonathan Milan ends Italy’s Tour stage-win drought | Tour de France 2025 Stage 8"

Release Date: July 12, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of THEMOVE, host Lance Armstrong, alongside notable guests Sir Bradley Wiggins, Sir George Keppy, and Professor Spencer Martin, delves deep into the thrilling developments of the 2025 Tour de France. The focal point of the discussion centers on Jonathan Milan's monumental victory in Stage 8, marking the first Italian stage win since Vincenzo Nibali in 2019. The conversation weaves through tactical analyses, team dynamics, rider performances, and broader implications for the rest of the race.

Jonathan Milan’s Historic Stage 8 Victory

The episode opens with enthusiastic celebrations of Jonathan Milan's unprecedented win. As Jonathan Milan himself exclaims at the [00:00] mark, "Incredible win by Jonathan Milan. First Italian win since 2019. Like you said, his first Tour de France stage wins." Lance Armstrong echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the significance of the victory.

“Like you said, his first Tour de France stage wins.” — Jonathan Milan (00:00)

The hosts highlight Milan's achievement as a breakthrough for Italian cycling, underscoring the rarity and importance of such a victory in the modern Tour de France context. They reflect on Italy's storied cycling history and the anticipation surrounding Milan's performance.

“It's been six years since an Italian won a stage in the Tour de France.” — Lance Armstrong (02:14)

Team Tactics and Criticism

A substantial portion of the discussion revolves around the tactical decisions made by Milan's team, which have sparked debate among fans and pundits alike. Jonathan Milan voices his frustration about his team’s strategy, feeling that his energy was being wasted in breakaways instead of being conserved for a decisive sprint.

“But I, I'm actually pissed off. I had to, I had to ask... Why are you putting them in the front so early on?” — Jonathan Milan (10:47)

Sir Bradley Wiggins and Spencer Martin analyze the team's approach, questioning the rationale behind consistently positioning a strong rider like Milan at the front during the initial stages.

“He's the strongest guy, he's the strongest breakaway guy in the race right now.” — Jonathan Milan (11:59)

The conversation highlights concerns about the long-term sustainability of such tactics, especially with the demanding nature of the Tour's subsequent stages.

Insights into Other Key Riders and Teams

The hosts shift focus to other significant participants in the race, including Wild Van Art and Quinn Simmons. They discuss Van Art's resilience despite battling illness and predict his increasing influence in the latter stages of the Tour.

“Once this kid gets his momentum rolling, watch out. I think from stage 10 on, he is gonna play a major role in this race.” — Jonathan Milan (19:38)

Discussions also touch upon the team dynamics of Visma, highlighting the camaraderie between Jonas and Quinn Simmons, and speculating on team strategies moving forward.

“There's a lot of criticism going on with their tactics the last couple days, but I'm, I'm seeing this like quiet confidence.” — Jonathan Milan (21:13)

Sponsorships and Team Changes

A significant segment of the episode is dedicated to the evolving landscape of team sponsorships within professional cycling. Lance Armstrong and guests dissect the implications of Total Energy’s involvement with Direct Energy, raising questions about compliance with Tour de France regulations and the potential impact on team identities.

“There's a lot of speculation that Specialized is going to INEOS. That connect the dot you then would connect is Remco to INEOS with Specialized paying a salary.” — Spencer Martin (24:19)

The panel deliberates on the future of prominent teams like INEOS, discussing the potential shifts in team composition and leadership, especially with stars like Remco possibly transitioning to other powerhouse teams like Red Bull.

“He has the best development team in the world. And so if you're Remco thinking, well, now I'm all of a sudden I, I look around, I'm racing with 21-year-olds that are amazing.” — Lance Armstrong (28:21)

Comparison of Criterium Racing and Tour de France Dynamics

The hosts engage in an enlightening comparison between criterium racing and the grueling demands of the Tour de France. They highlight the extraordinary speeds and physical requirements of the Tour, often surpassing those of top-tier American criterium races.

“The first hour of the race, the Tour de France is faster than these big time crits here in the US.” — Jonathan Milan (35:55)

This segment serves to educate listeners on the unique challenges presented by Grand Tours, contrasting them with the more localized and shorter-format criteriums.

Technical Q&A: Understanding Functional Threshold Power (FTP)

Addressing listener inquiries, the panel discusses the concept of Functional Threshold Power (FTP) and its relevance to professional cycling performance. They explore how average cyclists might fare in keeping up with elite pelotons based on their FTP metrics.

“What's your current FTP?” — Spencer Martin (37:35)

This section provides valuable insights into the physiological demands of professional cycling, emphasizing the high levels of power output required to remain competitive at the highest levels.

Trivia and Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts introduce a trivia segment aimed at engaging listeners and testing their knowledge of Tour de France history.

“What's our question? Can an average Joe hang in the peloton?... I mean, none of us on this table would make it.” — Conversation around a listener's question (34:25)

Additionally, they pose a trivia question about the most green jersey wins in Tour history, fostering interactive engagement with the audience.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with forward-looking remarks about upcoming stages, particularly Stage 9's potential for intense sprint battles and the strategic maneuvers expected as the Tour progresses. The hosts express anticipation for subsequent performances and the evolving narratives within the race.

“If he can make it, it'll be a good sprint battle tomorrow.” — Lance Armstrong (42:15)

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Lance Armstrong and his guests provide a comprehensive and nuanced analysis of the Tour de France, blending technical expertise with passionate commentary. Their discussion not only celebrates Jonathan Milan's historic win but also critically examines the broader tactical and structural elements shaping the race. For listeners seeking an insider’s perspective on one of cycling’s most prestigious events, this episode of THEMOVE offers an engaging and informative experience.

Transcript

[Jonathan Milan]

Incredible win by Jonathan Milan. First Italian win since 2019. Like you said, his first Tour de France stage wins.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right?

[Jonathan Milan]

Unreal.

[Lance Armstrong]

Boom. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Move Podcast. I'm Lance Armstrong, joined by Sir Bradley Wiggins, Sir George Keppy and the Professor, Spencer Martin.

[Jonathan Milan]

The Professor's back.

[Lance Armstrong]

We're keeping the professor out here. He keeps getting things spot on. So, by the way, also, quick shout out that little intro music. I don't know if you know this or not. So, Bradley, that is Mickey Raphael.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I thought it was.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yep. Who has played harmonica for Willie Nelson for. I don't know.

[Jonathan Milan]

Did he play for Lyle? Love it, too.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm sure he has. I'm sure he sat down. Yeah, I heard that. I'm sure he sat in with Lyle. He tours when he's not with Willie. He tours almost exclusively with Chris Stapleton. But Mickey, widely regarded as the best harmonica player to ever live. So that's pretty sick. He made that song for us. I remember you.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I do know that story.

[Lance Armstrong]

As is the case each and every day. Today's show presented by Ketone IQ Alain. We're talking about Stage eight. Where we go. Stage eight.

[Jonathan Milan]

From Samuel Legrand to Laval Espace Mayenne.

[Lance Armstrong]

From Samuel Legrand to. That's the best. Best. That's it. That's the best one so far. I mean, I don't even know what he said, but of all the days that Alan told us where we started and finished, that's the best one. That's the yellow jersey so far, in my opinion. Huh. Right. It was. You're supposed to laugh at that. Jonathan Milan, first Italian stage win since 2000. This is hard to believe. You have to think about this. This is in terms of cycling history, the Italians, I don't know, probably a top three country over the last century and. And worldwide. Hard to imagine. It's been six years since an Italian won a stage in the Tour de France. Nibali, the last Italian to win in 2019.

[Spencer Martin]

Bradley Wiggins was there for that, right?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I was doing the motorbike, but we weren't allowed on the motorbike that day because there was storms and rocks falling and things. I think the stage was actually shortened that day.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it was very short stage.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I was on the last climb a couple of kids ago, watching Vincenzo come past.

[Lance Armstrong]

Great rider, but yep, yep, by all accounts, an incredible stage. One nonetheless. Six years, long time. Good for him. Great sprint for my eyes. He seemed to do a lot of it on his own, I think. George.

[Jonathan Milan]

All of it.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, all of it, we'll get to all the, we'll get to the breakdown here in a second. Today's show brought to you by Huckberry. Huckberry is building the future of retail for active, adventurous guys where style and adventure convergence millions trust them as their one stop men's shop for discovering and shopping well crafted products. Also just spitting out all kinds of really cool content if you, if you sign up for their daily newsletter. By the way, they Send out over 1 million newsletters every day. Think about that. The content's really cool. Just they're pulling cool articles, they're writing their own articles, making short films and they also outfitted us. And days like today, like we're sitting around and all of a sudden with this new setup with our friends at Peacock, we had to be ready. Like we were running around and scrambling. As you might or might not be able to tell, we were over in the Huckberry chill chamber and we didn't have to go far. So pretty sick. And we, I, I was just kind of noodling around on huckberry.com and saw this furniture. I was like, huh, this could be cool.

[Jonathan Milan]

They have great stuff. Like I said, yes. I just ordered a bunch of shirts from there.

[Lance Armstrong]

I still, I'm still amazed you're buying that stuff. But, but good for them. Good for them.

[Jonathan Milan]

Last night was my first night away from Mr. Armstrong here kicked me out of the house.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, that's not true. That's actually not true.

[Jonathan Milan]

You know, I was, I was wondering if he's missed me at all. I'm like, hey, bro, what time you want me to come over? What do you mean? I mean, like, what, you want me to come over, watch the race? No, I'll see at the studio. This is, this is how much the man misses me. Doesn't even want me to come over.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'll get back to Hug Bear in a second. You're right. You're right. If we're going to go down this rabbit hole, here's exactly what happened. You, your wife and your family came into town. So you moved out.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yes.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm happy for you, Anna and, and Grace. So my wife and my daughter went to, flew to Minnesota to pick up my daughter Olivia at summer camp, which is, which is a different pickup in, in this year than any other year. Right. And in light of everything that's happened down in central Texas, obviously Olivia's camp went smooth, but it's different, right? It's a different type type of pickup. So my heart goes out to everybody affected down there. But so I was all alone. I came home, played golf yesterday.

[Jonathan Milan]

I came home, I was all along with favorite person.

[Lance Armstrong]

Dogs are gone, George is gone, wife is gone. I was all alone. Unbelievable. It was, it was unbelievable. And by the way, woke up all alone and I was just kind of walking around in my skitties and just. It was. You saw me, Bradley, you were in the gym when I. Bradley got up. 5:30. He was in the gym before me. When I walked in, it was a different guy.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

It was a different guy.

[Lance Armstrong]

You saw happier guy. You saw me, you saw me get out of the car. You missed it. This is a different guy. This was a different guy, huh? Because that guy. Anyways, anyhow. Huckberry. Sorry everybody.

[Jonathan Milan]

Huckberry.

[Lance Armstrong]

You are changing the game. Dudes and dudettes. Go check it out. Huckberry.com themove that's huckberry.com themove also today, brought to you by Roka. Roka has invented a completely new class of eyewear. Glasses optimized for performance. No other eyewear brand can keep up what these guys are doing. They just keep making their stuff better and better. And for my friend, Mr. Hinkapy, I have a little.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

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[Lance Armstrong]

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[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Well, I think part of the reason for that is because Monday is Jean Bastille Day.

[Jonathan Milan]

That's right.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Which is going to be a tough stage and it's sort of a late weekend off for everyone. So tomorrow, Monday, Monday's a national holiday. So today, I think was, you know, as much as it wasn't as entertaining as it has been the last few days, I think it was a welcome stage for the riders. It's been such a tough first week and it went as we expected, didn't we? Little Trek road on the front. Montego bell for Binyam Gamai. And with a predictable winner.

[Jonathan Milan]

You know me, I don't really like to cause controversy.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's true.

[Jonathan Milan]

But. But I, I'm actually pissed off. I had to, I had to ask. Our man Spencer, is Litotrek an American team or where are they registered? Do we know? Can we look this up?

[Spencer Martin]

I'll look it up right now because I'm pretty sure.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay.

[Jonathan Milan]

How are you going to put, by.

[Lance Armstrong]

The way, I love this version of you.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah, I love it. I'm actually pissed. How are you going to put our national champion on the front when he is arguably one of the best top 20 guys in the race can win a stage at any moment. Has made the hardest breakaway in the race from the, from the first stage. They had him pulling for 50k in the beginning of the race today. He's pulling all day long. Are you trying to sabotage the, the kid from winning a race? Our national champion? I do not like this at all one bit. Yes, they won today's race, but they were alone. Jonathan Milan was alone at the finish and yes, he pulled it off. Amazing sprinter, incredible win. They've had an amazing season, but give our boys some love. Why are you putting them in the front so early on? That's a fair point. Look at their roster. Let's. I mean, I went into their roster earlier. They have many guys that can do what he's doing. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't understand and I'm actually kind of insulting.

[Lance Armstrong]

We said it, we were in the gym, we had the TV on watching it and I just. And every time you looked up, Quinn Simmons was pulling. And of course this whole first week he's been at or near the front, whether it's at the pulling the peloton or in a long breakaway. I said, I said to Bradley, I said, damn, he's burning some matches this first.

[Jonathan Milan]

Well, no, they are burning his matches and he's not doing this. He's not voluntarily doing this.

[Lance Armstrong]

I love this version.

[Jonathan Milan]

They're putting him on the front, wasting his energy for no reason whatsoever. Zero reason. That's a very admirable job to do that. But that's not what he should be doing. I mean, why do you think he.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Is doing that then?

[Jonathan Milan]

Their team is making him do it. He doesn't want to do that. There's no way he wants to do that. He wants to win a stage of the Tour de France in the American national championship jersey and he deserved the way he's been riding this year and what he's shown thus far. They should be saving him. I do not like that they put him on the front. Spencer, back me up here. Why are they doing this?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he did a lot of good work on the front. He was a late addition.

[Jonathan Milan]

But anybody can do that. Anybody can do what he's doing. Why would you spend burn his matches? It's just a waste of his form right now.

[Lance Armstrong]

What you're saying is it's a three week race and that's what I, I.

[Jonathan Milan]

Remark and he's the strongest guy, he's the strongest breakaway guy in the race right now.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Aside from Milan, he's the only other rider in that team, you could see that's capable of winning.

[Jonathan Milan]

I don't get it. I'm highly insulted that this team is using him like this.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, he am son. He's been counting. His wife got here last night. You think he'd be in a better mood?

[Jonathan Milan]

No, I was this morning. I'm watching. I'm like, why is Queen at the front right now? What are they doing?

[Lance Armstrong]

Mel sleep in a different room last night.

[Spencer Martin]

He's been an odd. I. I don't want to. We're on TV now. I'm not just on the show anymore. He's been an odd fit in that team for a while. Like he wasn't on. He wasn't on the initial tour list. He just show up to sp. He was, you know, in Tucson training. Had to race the American national championships. That can have been like if you're an American pro racing in West Virginia in May in the meat of the season, that means you're not getting selected for a lot of other races. He wins that. He goes to Switzerland wins. I think he kind of forced his way onto the tour team. Didn't leave them any other chance or any other option.

[Jonathan Milan]

I get it. But what's the identity of this team? Is it. Is track an American company or they did they switch? I don't get it. We have an American that can win a stage in the Tour de France and they're wasting his every day.

[Lance Armstrong]

You don't want to ask me about.

[Jonathan Milan]

But this kid is, I mean, what, what a warrior. I mean he's going to keep fighting, he's going to make more breakaways. I just do not like the fact that they're wasting his energy like that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Look, I mean they're panic cooking riders.

[Jonathan Milan]

No, they have a. They have a great team. But anybody can do on his team what he did.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wasn't what I was going to say. I mean there are panicooking riders in general.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

There's also panicookan directors and GMs and decision makers. There are just. Are so. But it's a fair point. Nobody here is disagreeing with that. We remarked that.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And then look at nasty third week for him.

[Jonathan Milan]

I get it. If you have the four or five guys like our old school lead outs at the last K. Yeah, I understand. Okay. They're saving these guys for lead up. There was nobody there. I mean they took him to like 3,4k to go. John Milan's on his own stud. I mean, pulled it off. Elbow and bump and grind. They did it on his own. The last two kilometers. But I don't get it. I don't understand what's happening.

[Lance Armstrong]

Six, 385 pounds.

[Spencer Martin]

He looks taller than six, three in person.

[Lance Armstrong]

He does look. Yeah. And he looks bigger than £185.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

That boy comes and gives you some elbows. You're like, all right, your wheel.

[Jonathan Milan]

You said something really interesting about his. The testing they did with him because we kind of questioned his sprinting style as compared to like a Mark Cavendish.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Compared to Cav. And, and they actually, Steve Perino actually talked about it during the coverage today and I guess they've done this testing around his style and it's exactly what we remarked. His head is high. There's just a lot of. According to Perino, he puts out 2000 watts of peak power during his sprint. So just. That's a lot for you kids at home. And that means you're going fast. So when you're going that fast, I mean, the package has to be smaller. They've done this testing, I guess, and they've had him at 2000 watts with the head high, and they've had him at 2000 watts with the head low. It equates, again, this is all according to what I heard on tv. It equates to one bike length, which I mean, you can imagine. I mean, that means you win a lot more bike races. His head was high today and he still won by bike length.

[Jonathan Milan]

So that's all just go figure power.

[Spencer Martin]

If his head was low, does he ever lose a race? Well, I think that guy an extra bike length.

[Jonathan Milan]

I mean, let's think about the effort he's doing. Full gas effort, probably 16, 17, 1800 watts, I'm guessing. I think he just, he's just all muscle and that's his style. I think perhaps maybe putting his head down would affect his actual power on the bike. So, I mean, he's going to go with what makes him what. What he feels most comfortable doing.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, he's also the world record holder for the 4000 meter 359sub 4 minute World Olympic team pursuit champion, world record holder in the team pursuit. And he's made that transition fantastically.

[Spencer Martin]

Does that mean he has a high threshold power as well?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Well, he's got a high capacity power, so his ability to hold in excess of 550 watts for four minutes, he.

[Jonathan Milan]

Can win prologue, which is freaky because.

[Spencer Martin]

It means he could almost, because usually a sprinter will have a high absolute power.

[Lance Armstrong]

A low.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, he's got both.

[Spencer Martin]

He's got both. He could almost lead himself out, which.

[Lance Armstrong]

Is what he did today. Yeah, I mean, he had to find his way. He had a teammate with him there at a K to go. You even remarked, George, like, this is setting up terribly for him because that teammate you could see was coming to the end of his effort, and he was going to be stuck there. Right. So he had to drift back then kind of quack and find his way, which he did. But even then, he was not on the wheel. He was kind of just out there on the fringes, which means in the wind.

[Jonathan Milan]

And I mean, let's not forget we lost Phillipson, had Phillips him in there. This is a whole different story. Tim Malia got a flat tire with 5k to go, but, yeah, incredible win by Jonathan Milan. First Italian win since 2019. Like you said, his first Tour de France stage win. Unreal. I mean, incredible. But I still. I'm still pissed about what they're doing.

[Lance Armstrong]

We can tell. And, and, and Spencer, you remarked, because we did talk about this in the preview show, the decision to leave Mads Pedersen at home, which by all accounts didn't please Mads Peterson. Maybe a little redemption for whoever. Whoever made that decision. I still think Mads Peterson plays a different role in this Tour versus a stage like today. Right. He's. He's.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. I mean, with a weird. Yeah. I don't know the weird thing about that decision. There's a lot of stages this Tour that you think would be good for Mads Pedersen, but I guess those stages have been raised so hard. Maybe was there. I don't know.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's.

[Spencer Martin]

Maybe it's never the right decision to leave a writer as good as Mads.

[Lance Armstrong]

Pederson off your two or two former world champion.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, maybe that should be Auto Select.

[Lance Armstrong]

This guy's one of the best of the generation. I mean, I think that that's right. I mean, if you're just. If you just want to honor. I mean, throw him in the race, too.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, that's what Alpecin did with Groves.

[Lance Armstrong]

Exactly.

[Spencer Martin]

And Phillipson. And then look at it now. They have. They've got a sprinter finishing third on the day.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, we'll be back in two and 32. All right, we're back, everybody. In other news, our man Wild Van Art seems like he's a second today. There was a. There. There was a. There was a second there where you thought he was. He. He was going to make a run at Stage one, but he. He's just progressively getting better and better. Bradley, I know you've. In lieu of the second Half of this Tour, you said this is shaping up nicely, at least for some story for Finger Garden. I mean, well, Van Arc can do it all, including climb.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've seen what he's capable of doing.

[Lance Armstrong]

Special talent.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Most recently the Judo d', Italia, where he practically won the Jiro for Simon Yates. But it's good news for Visma. They need a strong welt by night in this third week.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's right.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

And then it was a great performance for him, for him personally as well. He got sick before the Belgium Championship. He was at the team hotel for the Belgium Championship, didn't start the next morning, and came into this race a little bit off par from that illness. But it looks like, you know, he's come through that first week pretty much unscathed. We've seen him a few times, try a few little moves yesterday, tried to get in the break, but that's a good result for him personally.

[Jonathan Milan]

No. And we've seen it before the Giro. He was sick before the Giro. Got second in the first stage. Was struggling in the first week then, but bam, he wins the hardest race, the hardest stage of the 0, the Strada Bianca stage. We saw it in the welter last year. Once this. This kid gets his momentum rolling, watch out. I think from. From stage 10 on, he is gonna play a major role in this race. Perhaps win stages, but certainly make a difference for Jonas.

[Spencer Martin]

He gets stronger as everyone else gets weaker. Like he was so bad at the start of the Giro, unbelievably got second on the first day. He must have been dying to do that, win stage nine about the time that we are right now. And just in the third week was so strong. So I think you're right. Bradley is going to be key.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Thank you. And what. You know, this happens in every sport, every team sport, There's. And it doesn't have to be a leader of the team or even a significant player, but you have. In any team sport, you always have a leader in the locker room. Right. It's a guy that. That. That either young players follow around or people just look up to and get inspired by. I don't know. Cause I'm not close enough to it. But, I mean, is he a guy who's sort of a leader, you know, in cycling, in the locker room as the team bus? Is he a leader in the locker room where this guy starts to get better and starts to say, hey, guys, let's. Let's go do this? Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I don't know if he's a Leader in terms of vocally but he is in terms of you don't have to be vocal. It's leading by example.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's just.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

And there was a nice moment yesterday where they were finishing at the finish line in Miri, Bhutan where Jonas was riding back down the finish straight the opposite direction back to the team buses. And while it was coming over the line, they just touched hands as well. It was finishing which was. It just shows you the. The camaraderie between them two.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah, I know there's a lot of criticism going on with their tactics the last couple days, but I'm, I'm seeing this like quiet confidence. We have not even seen Sepkus, one of the best climbers in the world. I like that actually. I think in my mind they're saving him and no pressure on him the first 10 days. He's not even helping Jonas at all. Positioning. We haven't seen Sep Kuss. Wait till we hit the mountains.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Quinn Simmons to Visma mid mid race.

[Jonathan Milan]

Let's get the American team going. Let's get all these guys on my team in three, four years. Vamos.

[Lance Armstrong]

And now we see what you did.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

He's gonna start like so discontent with all these writers.

[Lance Armstrong]

He sucked us into that one, didn't he? Yeah, that was Lance Diaz. Dear diary, all you never minds out there. That's not going to happen. Everybody calm down. I'm sit my ass right here. Be right here for three weeks. Not going anywhere. Just chatting.

[Jonathan Milan]

All right. I want to, I want to also mention.

[Lance Armstrong]

I love this. You are on fire today, baby.

[Jonathan Milan]

We're talking about. Well now we. We should talk about Total Energy. They made a nice move today that you said they're based in this town.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, this is their region, isn't it? This is going back to the. The good amateur team in the 90s. Von D which was. And then of course Bonjour, Brioche, Labulanger, all those amalgamations, different teams. Sylvan, Chavanel and now Direct Energy.

[Jonathan Milan]

All right, so what do you think about Direct Energy? Total. Is it Total Energy?

[Spencer Martin]

Total, yeah. Direct Energy. Don't how that creepy.

[Jonathan Milan]

So is it weird that they have essentially two teams in the race now?

[Lance Armstrong]

It is.

[Jonathan Milan]

What's going on there? They're co sponsor for Neos. They're going to stay on board with their own team for the next two years at least. Is there some kind of rules against that? Did they make an exception?

[Spencer Martin]

Well, the rule I think states so ineos, if INEOS was called like INEOS Total Energy would not be allowed. But think about, I don't know, like, Specialized used to sponsor like three or four teams. Like, the level they've technically come in at Withinos is. I don't know if the money is that way, but just they're like a presenting sponsor, not a title sponsor. Which means you can spread multiple presenting sponsors across teams. Little bit of a loophole. Like, you see it with Red Bull. Like, you know, Wynart racing with a Red Bull helmet. There's a Red Bull team in the race. They somehow, they, like, shuffle the papers.

[Lance Armstrong]

That.

[Spencer Martin]

That works out. But it is dicey because what if INEOS was competing in the gc? Carlos Rodriguez needs more help. Who's to say that then Total Energies is not like a proxy team they can employ?

[Lance Armstrong]

And I don't think you can compare it to a Specialized. I mean, that's like. Yeah, that's like. If you think about Formula one, that's having an engine supplier to multiple teams. Of course they do, but they don't share marketing sponsors like that. That's. That's very different. It's. It's. But, hey, we're talking about cycling.

[Jonathan Milan]

So they brought in.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right. So they. The rules. You just kind of, you know, pin the tail on the donkey a lot of times, honestly.

[Jonathan Milan]

And we keep speculating where Remco is going to end up. There's a lot of talk about that. Now, I also read that INOS does not have a bike sponsor for next year. Correct me if I'm wrong, that that's.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. There's a lot of speculation that Specialize is going to ineos. That connect the dot you then would connect is Remco to ineos with Specialized paying a salary. Yeah, but I heard from our. Our guy in. Our guy in the middle of the muck said he's going to Red Bull.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Which is already a Specialized team.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep. And that's how that would work. Big question is what. So the reason that would happen this year is Remco's contract expires next year. So this is the last year Sudal can sell him, basically, because if they let his contract expire, they lose him for nothing. Now, Red Bull, ineos, whoever takes them would have to pay that final year of the contract could be quite a bit of money, and Sudal would then collect that and use that for the team.

[Jonathan Milan]

So. But what. So what happens to Sudal if that happens? Because they went from being the best classics team in the entire world to transfer, transforming their whole team to be. Try to be behind Remco. Right. Correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't win any of the monuments this year, which normally they're in the front. Roubaix, Flanders, we didn't see them. They're all in for Remco, obviously, one of the best riders in the world. But what happens to that team if Remco leaves?

[Spencer Martin]

It's not great. They've got Tim earlier, but you know, who's eaten their lunch, who's taken all the riders they would normally get. It's Alpus into Kunik. They get all these Classics riders that would normally have gone to Sudok Quickstep. I mean, I. I don't know how much you want to say, but if he leaves the team, I think the team probably gets sold and someone buys it for the license.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. And if you walk it back, I mean, it's pretty clear what happened. Right. That team was led by Patrick Lefebvre for decades, and he was one of the greats. Right. And his record speaks for himself. The record of the team speaks for itself. What happened was Patrick Lefebvre got tired. Right. As you would. I mean, it's a hard game and you're at it for decades and decades. Of course, he deserves to get tired and enjoy himself. And then he retired. Right. So you saw the phase where Lefaber got tired and now you're seeing the phase of Lefaber retired. Yeah. Or Night Bradley, I feel like.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Jonathan Milan]

Well, you just saw. You just saw him. Right, Last year.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, I was with Patrick last weekend. He's in his 70s now, Patrick.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

And he's been at it for a long time. You know, over the years, he's had pancreatic cancer and lots of health issues, but he's enjoying himself now. And so he should. You know, he's had a great run at it. It's had one of the most successful teams in the world for many, many years. And, yeah, it's time to pass the baton on to someone else. And. And it seems. I mean, this was the first year in the Classics. I don't think they were.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah, they were.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

They weren't even on the podium, but it's.

[Lance Armstrong]

You can pass the baton, but you got big shoes there. It's hard, right? It's hard. And so TBD on that. Right. And of course, the. The hot rock that keeps getting passed around or talked about right now is Remco. So he's. I think it's pretty clear it's either Red Bull or any else.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, does Red Bull. What do you guys think about that? Like which team, if you were Remco having a poll, which team would you go to? Red Bull.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah. Especially with the, the slow descent of Roddich now. Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

As opposed to ineos.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Well, I mean, I mean they helped.

[Jonathan Milan]

You win the Tour de France.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, I know, I know, but that was 12, 13 years ago.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

And I think the culture has changed within ineos. It's not, it doesn't have that winning culture like it did when, you know, Froome came along after me and then Grant Thomas. You know, there's been a quite a shift and we were mostly a British team then and so we had an identity and we, we were doing it for a nation and we had the backing of sky, which was a British organization and over the years they brought in, you know, the South Americans and tried to win as many races as possible and they've kind of lost a lot of its identity from that point of view. And it's got owner now as well in Jim Radcliffe who, whose, you know, eggs are spread. I mean, he's got the Manchester United project, he's got nice football club, Formula one, Formula one, sailing, two teams in the Tour de France now.

[Jonathan Milan]

But do you think them bringing on total energy and bringing back Brailsford, are they?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Well, I think, I think bringing back Brailsford is, is a smart move. You know, he's someone who, who creates a winning culture and he's got a winning mindset, a winning mentality and he's got a history of winning as well. But it's going to take a while now to, to get that team back. And, and Dave's come in now with, I imagine with a view of doing a job over the next couple of years. He's at this tour to observe and take notes and see where they're going wrong and see what, how much it's changed.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Also worth noting that Red Bull and if you just go down the ranks, down in the age categories, if you talk about the development teams, the junior teams, the amateur teams, by all accounts, Red Bull has the best development team in the world. And so if you're Remco thinking, well, now I'm all of a sudden I, I look around, I'm racing with 21 year olds that are amazing. Well, I mean, if you see a 19 year old, 8, 17 year old on a development team, you have to think that in two, three, four years this guy's going to be on my team or I'm going to be racing against this kid. So it's, it's. I would be thinking about that if I was him.

[Spencer Martin]

Here's a really interesting thing to watch. So Florian Lipowitz on Red Bull Rim Kweven a pole. They're both going for the podium here. If Florian. It'd be interesting if Florian Lipowitz beats Remco, having a pull at this Tour de France and then next year has to work for him because Remco's coming on as his team leader. That, that would be tense, I would think.

[Lance Armstrong]

Could depend on that. Today's show also brought to you by Ketone iq. We talk about it all the time. And as a matter of fact, it might have been one of the reasons I was in such a swell mood this morning. Bradley. I did wake up all alone. I was motivated for the gym. I hammered some Ketone IQ driving down to the gym. And it, I, I. Well, it's not just me. Everybody feels a difference with ketones. It's, it's, it's become so prevalent in this peloton. Also for the brand Ketone iq, lots of different options added. Caffeine if you want it. Different flavors totally change the, the, the flavor profile. Five girl again. Five milligrams of ketones and 100 milligrams of caffeine, all from Green Tea. Also, a ton of research going in and around ketones, especially with their partnership with team Visma. Lisa Bike. Key findings, improved blood flow, higher muscle oxygenation, better endurance and stamina. Take your shot. Get 30. Let me say that again. Get 30 off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second [e-mail] the move. That's ketone.com themove also today. Timeline. As someone who's trained hard most of my life, I've learned that real performance doesn't just come from the gym. It starts at the cellular level. That's why I love Mito Pure by Timeline. It's a supplement that supports cellular energy by helping your body renew its mitochondria, your colloquial mitochondria, those tiny powerhouses inside your cells that start to slow down as you age. The science is strong. Mito Pure is clinically shown to improve muscle strength in just a few months. And it supports healthy aging at the cellular level, which is something that I personally care more and more about each and every year. If you want to stay strong and support your body at its foundation, go check out Mitopure. Head over to timeline.com/the move to get started. You'll get 20 off. As a listener of the show, that is timeline.com the move. Sir. Bradley just had a couple chews on it. Not bad, huh?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

They're nice.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, they're nice.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I already feel better at the cellular level. That's how quick they work.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, yeah, you're one of those. I mean, you're special. The better the athlete, the better. This stuff works quick as well. Right, Right. A suspicious amount of flat tires today. I don't know what to make of that. I mean, there was some speculation on tv, but there were a lot of flats. We've had times in the past where nefarious things have gone on. It can also just be. You happen to be going through someplace where there's just glass or people bottles.

[Jonathan Milan]

But, yeah, we've had times where people have thrown, like, tax on the road nails just to purposely make as many riders as they can flat.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, it's not a.

[Spencer Martin]

Like, an issue with Canela. Were you at cadell's team?

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah. 2000, I think, 2011. We all flatted, like, 15k to go the race.

[Lance Armstrong]

Who stopped the race?

[Jonathan Milan]

You stopped the race.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow.

[Jonathan Milan]

The man stopped.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

49 people punctured that day.

[Jonathan Milan]

I punctured.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Wow.

[Jonathan Milan]

2011 or 12.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

2012. And someone had to take the initiative.

[Jonathan Milan]

And say, hey, that was.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

We never want to profit from someone else's misfortune.

[Jonathan Milan]

Wow, look at that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. You think they would do that today?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I'd hope so. I think today would.

[Lance Armstrong]

I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. And. But there's other guys that could, too. I mean, it does. I mean, Vanderpool could do that. Yeah. I mean, this could call it wild fan art.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Couldn't call that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Garrett Thomas be a great guy to. Yeah. Scare Thomas. The oldest guy in the race.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yes. He is 39.

[Spencer Martin]

What do you guys think? I have to wonder, like, so obviously, we. We are in awe of Garen Thomas. I think there's young riders in the race who are like, who is this guy again?

[Jonathan Milan]

No, no. He won the Tour de France and.

[Spencer Martin]

When like was just born. I guess, like, some of these guys are so young. Do they Even remember the 2018 tour?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Do they remember the 2007 tour? That was Grant's first tour.

[Spencer Martin]

That's unbelievable. What team?

[Lance Armstrong]

Balawad. Wow. Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

Was he with. With Froome that year?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

No, Froome didn't ride the Tour that year, but they were in the same team.

[Jonathan Milan]

Oh, God.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

That was the year they were riding for Robbie Hunter. Robbie Hunter on the stage, in character.

[Lance Armstrong]

That guy is.

[Jonathan Milan]

Well, you Know he's a agent now as well.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

He's.

[Jonathan Milan]

Great conversation.

[Lance Armstrong]

I've always been a fan of Robbie Hunter. Great guy, that boy. You want. You want to hang out with somebody that calls it the way they see it. Holy hell. No filter. No filter at all.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

That's what I love about it.

[Lance Armstrong]

I love it. Of course, that is. That's the best part.

[Jonathan Milan]

We can get him on the show.

[Lance Armstrong]

That'd be fun.

[Jonathan Milan]

Robbie, he was a good bike ride as well.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, it was tough. He didn't give a. About anything in the race. Just. We got some questions, Spencer. I heard. We got some square. Let's do questions. And then we got a fun Ventum trivia question question of the day.

[Jonathan Milan]

All right.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know the answer to this one. Stay tuned for that. What's our question?

[Spencer Martin]

This is a pretty good question from Kevin. I'm gonna bridge the question. Sorry, Kevin. But don't, don't get too triggered, guys. Kevin's question is, can an average Joe hang in the peloton? He sends in his stats, he's 72 kilos, 350 FTP, 6.7 watts per kilo for two minutes. When the neutral zone ends and the break is trying to form, am I getting dropped? Would I be able to stay in the Groupetto up the mountains? If not, what power would be required to make these basic scenarios? I would say probably you're dropped immediately.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right. George was shaking his head when you were reading out the numbers.

[Jonathan Milan]

No way. I mean, the, the numbers.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sorry, Kevin.

[Jonathan Milan]

Sorry, Kevin. But ask Mark Cavendish what kind of numbers he was doing just to ride the Groupetto. Yeah, Last year. I mean, the numbers are insane. Like, none of us on this table would, would make it.

[Spencer Martin]

Like, what do you think, Cavendish?

[Jonathan Milan]

Kevin, you got no chance, bro.

[Spencer Martin]

Like, in the Groupetto. Like, what it's Cavendish doing?

[Jonathan Milan]

I mean, he was.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Groupetto is different, isn't it? But, but just, you've got to get through the first part of the race before the Groupetto forms.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, I think people would be surprised how violent the start of the race is because most people don't watch it on television.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Like you're seeing some of these stages, let's say they're going 54k an hour for the first hour. Like when you race a big criterium, like a, like a top level criterium in the us it's an hour long, basically, and it's slower than that. So then imagine just that criterium never ends. Like it's even for a top level racer. I Think it would be shocking how fast it is.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's right. Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

So you're saying the first hour of the race, the Tour de France is faster than these big time crits here in the US that's really interesting.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Well the crit racers would probably say, well, we have to turn more so. Right. That's going to slow you down.

[Jonathan Milan]

Got it. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

No, that's interesting for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

I guess if you think about it, if all the best riders are at one race, the speed's gonna be pretty high relative to. Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

But I mean, Luke Limp party on. On suit all quickstep doesn't even get selected for their best races. Showed up to Tulsa Tough, which is the top crit.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Race in the US and was like winning finger in the nose, you know, like with no team.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah, he actually just got like second or third. And what was the last crit? Lucas Bargon. One.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah. He's actually winning areas. National champion. Always. Always wearing a cowboy hat. I like this kid from Austin. He's one.

[Lance Armstrong]

I follow that dude on Instagram.

[Jonathan Milan]

Do you really? Yeah. Good kid.

[Lance Armstrong]

His Instagram's cool.

[Jonathan Milan]

So him and Lampardi grew up racing together and they were always like 1, 2, 1 2, battling it out and actually they just did a criterium together and Burgon beat him. Obviously coming from Europe, you're not really in the crit mind space. But still you should watch it as a good.

[Lance Armstrong]

Whatever you want. You're excited to be home? Yeah. Excited to flex a little on the, on the. On the local guys. I would think you'd be highly motivated. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

The crit to like if you're just a crit racer. I think like Luke has to get over like the Groupetto is hard too. You can only lose a few minutes every mountain, like a six mountain stage if you want to make the time cut like. So your demands are just different as a professional.

[Jonathan Milan]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Second, we have more question.

[Spencer Martin]

So I don't know because that was.

[Lance Armstrong]

That was actually a really good question. It's not a very popular answer with Kevin.

[Spencer Martin]

So we've raked Kevin over the coals a little bit.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sorry.

[Spencer Martin]

But here's the. Here's the humbling point for everyone on the show. What's your current FTP?

[Lance Armstrong]

Oh, God, who knows?

[Spencer Martin]

George, you want to go first for 70?

[Jonathan Milan]

I know, I have no idea. All I know is I got yelled at like the whole ride two days ago by the boss here and he dumped me. He said he's never going to ride with me again. So I'm kind of, you know, disappointed. I think that's why I was in a bad mood today. I got nobody to ride with.

[Lance Armstrong]

We never.

[Jonathan Milan]

And we never make ride. Ride by myself every day, like, if my life depended on it.

[Lance Armstrong]

I couldn't tell you or describe what FTP is or means. I mean, what is that? Is that threshold?

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, like functional threshold. Power functional threshold, which is kind of his old science at this point.

[Lance Armstrong]

But, yeah, I. Look, I haven't had a power meter on my bike and 15 years. I haven't worn a heart rate monitor in 15 years.

[Jonathan Milan]

Do you, do you look at your Watts Bradley when you're right?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

No, I mean, it's such a different thing. I'm fit for a different thing now and a different purpose. I mean, we was. I was squatting this morning.

[Lance Armstrong]

I know.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I was squatting like 300 pounds for eight reps of eight. Which I, I, you know, I, I would have struggled to squat 80 pounds when I was a cyclist. I'm 30 kilos heavier now.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. 30 kilos. Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I was 68 when I won the Tour. I'm 100 now. 99.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow. Yeah. Damn.

[Spencer Martin]

I would guess, though, all muscle like you guys, your pedal strokes are so efficient that if we get in, your bodies are just different than a normal person. If we gave you like 3 weeks to train, I bet your FTPs could be pretty high.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, you know what I mean, that's not going to happen. So. By the way, I witnessed the squats. I was on the, on the bike, warming up, and I'm just watching, going. I mean, I was, I, I told. In fact, I told you and I told Mark up at the gym, I said, if I did one of those, just, just pull the wheelchair right to the front door because I'll. I'm going to rip one. I'm going to go straight to the wheelchair and I'll be in it for a week. So. I saw it. It was ugly for me. Ventum Trivia. Do we have more questions?

[Spencer Martin]

No, no. We can bump for tomorrow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay. Got a good one. Somebody got bumped. Bentam trivia of the day. Stage 8, which rider holds the record for the most green jersey competition overall wins in the history of the Tour? Who has the most green jerseys overall in the history of the Tour?

[Jonathan Milan]

I think I know that one.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know that one.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

The most green jerseys in the Tour de France.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I know. You know, it's easy. Come on. Don't say it.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Okay.

[Jonathan Milan]

That's easy. Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Can I head into the competition yeah, sure you can.

[Lance Armstrong]

Should we. Let's have it. Before we run, let's have a quick look at tomorrow's stage. Just another sprint stage. This is. Yeah. Not one. You know, I should love a stage like. Look at this stage. Right. 174km. I should love this stage. You know why? Look what is not there.

[Jonathan Milan]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

There is no polka dot jersey competition tomorrow. I. So I should get up early.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

This is one of Cavendish's winningest towns, isn't it? He won here three times and I think the finish straight tomorrow is named after him. Come on road. It's called Cavendish Avenue or something.

[Lance Armstrong]

I can look that up right here. I have. I have the. Something like that.

[Jonathan Milan]

Is he still there at the Tour?

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

I think he's not at the moment. He's there for the third week.

[Jonathan Milan]

We should try to get him on the show.

[Lance Armstrong]

That would. He'd be amazing. In honor of this being one of his winningest towns, that. That would be great on. On the race book here, they're not calling it that. Maybe it's a. It's. It's a symbolic thing, as it should be. But that'd be great. We should have him on. But no categorized climbs. Sorry to all you PO fans. And really the lead up to what looks like just an. By the way, I love Bestial Day. I think it's amazing. Right? It's. And for those who don't know, that's France's equivalent of the fourth of July. So I'm glad that they moved the rest day back a day and they. And they have dreamed up a stage on Bastille Day that is. I don't know what FTP means, but somebody's going to be at their FTP a lot during that stage, I guess. Right. So. And we'll see if Jonathan Milan can all of a sudden reverse the fortune of the Italians. Go two in a row. Right. Tim Elia had bad luck. Right. So let's had a flat within the last 5, 10K.

[Jonathan Milan]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Let's see what happens if. If he can make it. When he makes it, it'll be a.

[Jonathan Milan]

Good sprint battle tomorrow. If hopefully they arrive without mechanicals, like you said. It should be exciting.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Big day for Quinn Simmons again.

[Jonathan Milan]

Hopefully not. If I see on the front tomorrow early on, I'm gonna be pissed.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, no, you can't say that. Like, what are you gonna do if you see him on the front? You have to do something.

[Jonathan Milan]

I can't do anything.

[Lance Armstrong]

You can't talk.

[Spencer Martin]

I think his director is like a rabid fan of the podcast.

[Jonathan Milan]

So you have, if you're listening, my boy, a break. Give our national champion a break.

[Lance Armstrong]

Don't plead and be nice. No, go back. No, no, no.

[Sir Bradley Wiggins]

Go.

[Jonathan Milan]

Do not put them on the front.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay.

[Jonathan Milan]

Better early on anymore. I do not want to see that.

[Lance Armstrong]

I love this. I love this. All right, everybody, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you tomorrow.