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- [00:00]
Spencer Martin
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- [00:21]
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- [01:03]
Spencer Martin
Who would you put on your top 10, your top 10 cyclists of all time list? Obviously you'd start with Eddie Merckx, I assume.
- [01:11]
Johan Berneil
I mean Sean Kelly is, you know, in the PC PCs ranking, he's number two. I'm definitely going to put Lance in there. You know, there's nobody who has won seven Tours no matter what everybody says he's won those races. And to do that seven, seven times in a row is almost impossible.
- [01:31]
Spencer Martin
It's almost won a world championship.
- [01:34]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, classics. So Bernard Hino for sure. Yeah, in there. Bogachart in there. You know, then, then just before the Generation Boa I, I'll also put Alejandro Valverde in there.
- [01:53]
Spencer Martin
Whoa, I like that. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berneil. We are doing our weekly show where we go through the news of the week in professional cycling. A little bit different episode this week because we have the opening classics weekend coming up with amloop. Not amloop het news blad anymore, just amloop newsblad and on Saturday and then Kern bustles Kern on Sunday. It's kind of the traditional opening of the, you'd say real season, even though we've actually had some pretty good racing over the last few weeks. And then we'll, we'll talk about maybe a few news items. But we're shifting from our offseason news breakdown into the, the actually the breaking down of the Racing during the season. And then on Fridays, starting before SH Bianchi will go into our. Our like pure race prediction show on Fridays. But this week it's a little bit of a, A hybrid. Little bit of prediction, little bit of news, little bit of preview. But Johan, what we. We thought we were getting a showdown between W. Vanart and Matthew Vanderpoel at amloop tomorrow, but you called me with some news, some devastating news in my family. W. Vanart was sick and would not be participating. So now we have Matthew Vanderpoel in his first ever career start at this weekend, going up against, not up against, but perhaps helping his teammate Jasper Phillipson. And then going up against Visma duo of Christophe Laporte, Matthew Brennan, Tom Pitcock, Paul Magne, Binion Grimai, Arno De Lee, and then the. The defending champion, Soren Wolkenskold from Unox. But what are you looking for out of this opening weekend? And do you think this is going to tell us anything about how the Classics will play out? Or is this just kind of a fun prelude into the season?
- [03:37]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, well, Spencer, I mean, you know, typically in Belgium, and as a Belgian, we always say, you know, the season starts with Umlop ut Volk, which was the, the old name. Volk was the. The newspaper, which is now at Newsblatt. Anyway, Omlop at Nussblatt or new Umlop Nieuwsblatt. That's the real start of the season. At least it's the real start of the spring Classics. Uh, and you can, you can feel it in the media in Belgium. You know, the build up towards this race is crazy. You know, the newspapers are talking about it the whole week. Big, big, big portions in the sports sections of the newspapers, talk shows on tv. It's really something special in Belgium. And yeah, I mean, we had to wait until three days ago, I guess, to find out that Mathieu van der Poel was going to race. I think that's, I mean, he does that often, right? He just all of a sudden shows up, said, okay, you know, hey guys, tomorrow I'm racing. He did the same thing last year for Grand Prix Samaine, which he won. And now I think on Wednesday he decided that he would, he would do Omeloput Nieceblatt. I mean, it was kind of, you know, it was a bit. People were speculating that he would do it, right? And, you know, he's the big favorite, man. I, I have, I have to say, I'm still here. I mean, I'm now in Murcia I. I went down a bit further because my, My son is racing tomorrow in Murcia. But I was. I spent the whole week there in on the Costa Blanca. And I've met. I've mean, I've seen him a few times training Wednesday, I think. Was it Tuesday or Tuesday or Wednesday? I saw him do really impressive intervals on Valdebu. He was going, man, he was going. So he's ready. He's ready. And I think me. My opinion, and I think most of the peloton will just say, okay, you know what? We can only win if something special happens. He's the big favorite for this race. Especially since, you know, this race now is not anymore like it was before, where you had the hilly zone and then you kind of had a longer zone where situations could be changed and people could come back. This is the old final of the Tour of Flanders. You know, it's the mirror of Gerresbergen and then the Bosberg and then it's 11 kilometers to the finish. Yeah, last year was the same. It did come back, but there was no Mathieu van der Poel in the race. So I, I just think that Mati van der Poel is a huge favorite. This race becomes harder and harder. It becomes really a mini Tour of Flanders, except the distance and it's 200k and not 250 or 260, which is a monument.
- [06:35]
Spencer Martin
But.
- [06:36]
Johan Berneil
But really if everything goes to plan, Spencer and there is competition, but I can't see who else can win than Mathieu van der Poel.
- [06:45]
Spencer Martin
Well. Well, we should say. So you're just to back up a little bit. Yeah. 207k amloop on Saturday. That's a good way to put it. Mini Tour of Flanders. It's the old Tour of Flanders course I like. I think it's really fun. It's like going back in time a little harder. Kern Russell's Kern on Sunday. Little easier because you have some climbs, you have some cobbles. But the last, I'm just looking, it's 194k and the last real climb is at 134k to go. So it is quite flat for the inside. Saturday is the harder race, the more classicy. But to your point that Matthew Vanderpoel is going to be unstoppable. I would normally agree with you. I would say this is go hire everyone, pack it in. But this is not the last few years. It's not really a race where the. The obvious winner wins. Like go back to 2024.
- [07:34]
Johan Berneil
Not there.
- [07:35]
Spencer Martin
No, there's like been some pretty good writers. Yeah, I mean he's, he's good. But the thing is Van der Poel, I, I don't want us to forget like when he shows up ready to win, he's very hard to stop. But he often shows up and does not win. You know, like if he's not in race winning mode, he, he won't win. It's not unheard of.
- [07:55]
Johan Berneil
I think, I think one of the scenarios, Spencer, is that he goes too early and, and runs out, runs out of fuel. Which has happened already in the past with Mathieu. But you know the way, the way these guys, especially if you look at the two big engines, like huge engines, there's Matthieu van der Poel and, and Tadey Pugachar both on their specific terrain, you see more and more they just start the race so early because they want to exclude any uncontrollable and you know, Mathieu doesn't want to be put in situation where there's a majority of another team. So if he starts to go early then it's basically it's six or seven guys all by themselves and then it's the strongest guy who wins. Right. It's up to the other riders of course to see if they, if I expect him to go early on one of those, whatever climb it is. There's actually a new part now in the course. There's a climb called the Eichenberg which is cobbled, it's quite long and they do that loop twice. So this race is becoming harder and harder which is more to the advantage of a rider as Van der Poel, who by the way also has a very strong team around him. But I expect that he starts very early and that the big guns are there other riders who should be there. In my opinion co favorites is Tom Pidcock. I think Tom Pidcock is a big favorite. Also knows how to race these races, but has shown that he's in, in really good form already. Winning that last stage in the Ruta del Sol was impressive. You know, has done a training camp in altitude already. Visma of course is, is handicapped now with, with Van Aert falling out with, with sickness. So that's the big bummer. But they still have Matthew Brennan who I think can step up and you know, not too much pressure on him. Matthew Brennan is probably a rider who would have to take advantage of a moment of hesitance in the final and that there's a group can come back and he's super fast in the sprint. Another Rider who I think will be there. And this is, you know, another step up into his development is Paul Magnier. He is fast, but he is also very strong in these kind of classics. And then especially a guy who's not many people have talked about him, but I consider him as one of the favorites. Also is Tim Wellens, the Belgian champion. He's in great shape. He's the leader of uae and you know, whenever there's situations where all eyes are on van der Poel, Tim Wellens could be, you know, the, the, the dog who runs away with the bone when the others are fighting for it.
- [10:54]
Spencer Martin
Tim Wellens is a very good pick here. I would not be shy. He what was at Classic Hyena. We didn't really cover it, but just rode away from everybody. Stayed away for 50 ish K that he. The guy is flying right now. I mean, you make a compelling case for Vanderpoel. It's hard to imagine anyone beating him if, if we were doing outcomes. If I really had to pick, I would pick Tom Pidcock, though. He's been very impressive to me. Vanderpoel, maybe he parachutes in. My big question with Vanderpoel, why is he doing this? He's never raced this. He's done, you would say, pretty well in the classics. I believe no writer ever has ever won Amloop in Flanders in the same year. Is that correct, Johan?
- [11:34]
Johan Berneil
Not sure. Not sure. But listen, I mean, for guys like Vanderpool and Bogacha, these, these statistics are. That's just. These statistics are.
- [11:44]
Spencer Martin
Well, and it's kind of a funny stat because there's not really any reason why. It's, it's not like, oh, you're, you've peaked too early. These guys can manage their fitness so well now.
- [11:54]
Johan Berneil
I think he just got bored of training Spencer. I met him. I, I ran into him and he was coming down Golden Rat. No, I was going down Colderad. They were coming up with the team. Then another day he was with, with Freddy Ovit, who's always training with him, and another guy from Alpecin. I don't know who that was. And then another day on Valdebo and, you know, I guess he said, yeah, okay, I'm ready. You know, I just want to start racing. That's the beauty of being, you know, the top leader of that team and basically deciding your own program and deciding, okay, you know what, we're not going to announce it. We're not going to plan it, but whenever I feel ready, I'll, you know, he, you know, we all know that he has this private deal with private jet.
- [12:46]
Spencer Martin
I was just going to say, that's the beauty of having a private jet. You can just fly it.
- [12:50]
Johan Berneil
Calls them up and says, hey, you know what? I'm racing tomorrow. Bring me to the start.
- [12:54]
Spencer Martin
You know, a little bit different than back in your day, I'm guessing.
- [12:58]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, well, he's there. He did the recon. I saw. He did a recon yesterday. So. With. He did a recon with Greg. With Greg von Avermat, who was still incredibly fit. By. I mean, yeah, he's world champion. He's world champion triathlon.
- [13:17]
Spencer Martin
World champion.
- [13:18]
Johan Berneil
You are.
- [13:18]
Spencer Martin
You are. I think you're right. He is world champion triathlon. Yeah. That's pretty funny. I forgot about that. He is also a gravel racer, an accomplished gravel racer in his own right. But I'm gl. I'm glad Vanderpoel's doing this because I'm sick of. I'm sick of this waiting around. I. We. We've seen some good performances. Last week was incredible. Like, that was very fun to watch at Algarve. We just got to get these big guys out there racing. What are we doing, folks? So it's good Vanderpool's coming in. You make a compelling case that he's going to rip up the Bossberg. And it's. I mean, it's still a long way to the finish, though. It's from.
- [13:55]
Johan Berneil
It's 11K.
- [13:56]
Spencer Martin
Is it 11K? I'm looking. It looks like it's 12K. So I can, can he hold him off? But, I mean, last year we did have a bunch. It was the same finish. Unless I'm missing something, and we had a bunch sprint. It's not unheard of. That doesn't break it up. As you said, the weather.
- [14:16]
Johan Berneil
The weather is also important. You know, I think they, they. There's. There are possibilities of rain, and I've been told it's tailwind in the final, which is the advantage of, you know, big advantage.
- [14:32]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Huge advantage that. To Vanderpoel getting away. I. Yeah, I. What about, what about Jasper Phillipson? How's that going to work? What's the dynamic there?
- [14:42]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, I think for Philipsen, this is. I mean, it's a great situation because. Well, first of all, let's see, we haven't seen anything from Jasper Philipsen yet. I mean, he's not been present in the sprints where he should have been present in Algarve, so we don't know how his shape is, but, you know, he tends to go up a level in these harder races and these semi Classics and Classics, you know, we all know if I'm second, you know, he won Milan San Remo and for him it's a great situation because if he's there, he's probably not going to be there when the three, four big guys are going, but he can, you know, just sit back and just see if it comes back in the final. In theory, the team doesn't have to do anything because normally Mathieu is going to be in front.
- [15:28]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [15:29]
Johan Berneil
And, and then if he, if he gets back, he's going to have a lead out guy, Matthieu van der Poel, to, to lead out the sprint. So I mean, I think it's a great situation for, for Philipson.
- [15:43]
Spencer Martin
That would be my main argument as to how Vanderpoel doesn't win as he's leading. He's the lead out, man. I think that's his biggest danger to winning this. Someone asked me this morning, why is this called opening weekend? And my answer was, I think it used to be the first race that mattered. Used to be open, used to be the first race of the year, something like that. Is that correct?
- [16:04]
Johan Berneil
Usually the beginning of the spring Classics, you know, the northern, the northern European, like Belgium, Holland, Northern France Classics. Yeah, it was typical. You know, I remember when I was racing for Belgian teams, that was like the first big, the first big appointment, you know, that's why you had to be there.
- [16:27]
Spencer Martin
A little bit different now, I would say even than five or ten years ago where I know what you're saying. It was like the first show up ready, but now guys are showing up to UAE Tour ready to roll. As we saw with Del Toro's power numbers, Algarve like those guys are flying at those races. So it's changed a little bit. But it's the first class, it's the first Belgian Classics kickoff. And then the schedule's kind of funky too, because then you take a break, you go down to Italy, you're at Strata, you're at Sano, and then you're back up at the Belgian Classics. But there's actually. Let's take a quick, let's take a quick break. And then I want to talk about Visma, I want to talk about the, the Vanart no show and he's not no show and he's sick. But I want to talk about him not being here, what that means for Visma, what they need to get out of this weekend. And then we'll be right back. So let's talk on the other side of the break. Hey everybody. This episode is brought to you by Rugia. Here's something most doctors know that most men never talk about. Stress from work, money and family doesn't just disappear at night. It follows you into the bedroom. You can be lying next to the person you've loved for years and suddenly your mind will not let your body do what it has always done naturally. For situations like that, doctors look for treatments that help both the brain and the body. That's where Rugiat Ready comes in. Unlike Viagra and Cialis, Rugiat Ready is a next generation prescription treatment designed to help prime your brain for arousal and increase blood flow. It combines three clinically proven ingredients and one mint that dissolves under your tongue so it absorbs fast. Most men are ready in about 15 minutes, so you can stay present, confident and in control when the Moment is right. Over150,000 men have already made the switch to Rugia. Rugia connects you with a board certified doctor online and your treatment gets shipped discreetly to your do limited time only. Head to rusia.com the move to get 15% off your order that's R U G I-t.com the move to get 15 percent off your order ria.com the move everybody. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. Small business life means hustling and figuring it all out a lot of times on your own. But you don't have to spend your evenings guessing that tax forms or tracking down onboarding docs. Gusto handles all of that so you can spend your time on the parts of your business that you actually love, like watching pro cycling. And what is Gusto, you might ask? Well, Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere. And with April getting closer, I can still feel the anxiety I used to feel while running my business beyond the peloton without Gusto. Have I withheld taxes? What do I owe? Have I broken the law? I don't know. But now I don't have to worry about it because payroll runs are automatic, taxes are handled and there are no out of the blue surprise payments, just unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. And all the stuff that used to be annoying offer letters, onboarding, direct deposit. It's just baked right in. And the other thing? Peace of mind. When you're running a small business, the last thing you want to wonder you don't want to be laying awake at night thinking, did I mess up this form, or have I missed something important? Gusto just makes it feel handled. If you're tired of admin work creeping into your nights and weekend Gusto is honestly one of the easiest upgrades to your life that you can make. So try gusto today@gusto.com themove and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free of. That's three months of free payroll. @gusto.comove G-S-T-O.com the move. Okay, Johan, so you called me yesterday with the bad news. Wow, Ben, Art's not racing. I'm gonna be honest.
- [19:52]
Johan Berneil
I. I didn't.
- [19:53]
Spencer Martin
I never bought that he was racing in the first place. This felt. I just. I. I didn't have a good reason. I'm just like, is he. It's not that far after his broken ankle and surgery, but apparently he's. He was doing great, and he's only missing this due illness. Yeah, and he'll get over that illness, presumably.
- [20:15]
Johan Berneil
But that.
- [20:15]
Spencer Martin
That is two disruptions than more than you would want with a classic season this competitive. Am I off base thinking that?
- [20:23]
Johan Berneil
Well, listen, I mean, it's. It's not gonna. It's not going to compromise his. His build up towards Flanders and Rube. But it would have been nice for him to be at the start. I mean, listen, if he had. If it was on his schedule, it's because he thought he was ready. It is still mind blowing to think that, you know, he has hit this crash in the cyclocross, had an ankle fracture, had surgery. There's a screw in there. And four or five days later, he was on the home trainer. And the week after, he was training on the road, by the way, looks, it seems like we're seeing the same thing with Mads Pedersen. You know, if you remember, in the first stage of Dura, Valencia broke his collarbone on one one side and his arm on the other side. I think been spotted training in Mallorca already and not just. Not just easy coffee rides, like going full gas. So these guys are special. Right. They recover very quickly. So I think Van Aert was ready to race, and he was definitely going to be a factor in the race. Now, the illness, it is definitely, you know, the time of the year that people get sick. He did spend a lot of time on Sierra Nevada indoor. Right. Which is also not great. You know, I mean, if you're all the time indoor, there's a lot More flying around that you inhale than if you're outside all the time. Yeah, you're, you know, combine that with maybe a little bit, A little bit empty already. Your immune system is a bit off. And Yeah, I mean, I don't know what exactly the issue of the illness is. I saw an interview of Grisha Nirman who said that, you know, they knew already a few days and they waited till the last moment, but they knew already like three, four days ago that Walt wouldn't make it to the start of the, of the omlop, which is a shame, a shame for Walt, you know, and obviously, okay, it's bad luck. It's nothing compared to his crash and the cyclocross and the ankle fracture. But it's, there's, there's obviously a trend in Visma that they are having to, you know, deal with a lot of. Yeah. Negative news. You know, there's nothing they can do about it, but it's clear that they're in a spiral where things don't work out. You know, put on top of that the fact that Visma has announced that, you know, they most likely not going to continue if, you know, if they have the choice so they're looking for a new sponsor. That's stressful. I know how stressful that is. I've been in that situation. It is crazy stressful. And then, yeah, I mean, I guess they have some other injured guys also still. And then, you know, the trainer of, of Jonas left and you know, very, very surprisingly, Simon Yates retired, you know, out of the blue. A lot of things going on.
- [23:37]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, it's one of these things where Wildar gets sick before amloop by itself. Well, that's not too bad. Right.
- [23:43]
Johan Berneil
Wow.
- [23:44]
Spencer Martin
Benard breaks his ankle. Cyclocross, it's not too bad.
- [23:47]
Johan Berneil
Right.
- [23:48]
Spencer Martin
Simon Yates leaves. That's not too bad. We need a new sponsor. That's not too bad. But you start stacking it up.
- [23:54]
Johan Berneil
Yeah.
- [23:54]
Spencer Martin
And it's. Yeah, it just feels like everything is unraveling before the season has even started. And I talked to a rival team manager about it and it was, you know, their opinion that this stuff matters more than you might think because especially with they're not having a ton of success on the road. So every week that goes by, everyone is like, look, tries to keep the morale up but they, they are falling. There's no kind way to say this. They are falling behind on the road relative to their rivals already.
- [24:26]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. It's there in the. It's a snowball effect that doesn't I mean, the, the, the ball doesn't go the right way, it comes back towards them. Right. So they're in this negative spiral now. I mean, at some point they're going to get out of it and things are going to start working out. But it is difficult to deal with at the beginning of the season because already the pressure is so high to start off good, you know, to have these early results that bring some peace and some excitement and, you know, the winning moods, you know, they don't have that yet and there's a lot of things right now that they have to worry about. So obviously Richard Plugger is in a very difficult situation. He has to deal with a lot of. But still, you know, it's. It's early and, you know, the good news is, for example, while Jonas has changed his schedule, he's going to start Paris Nice. If Jonas is in good shape, maybe he wins Paris Nice and, you know, everything starts to turn around.
- [25:26]
Spencer Martin
It's possible. Yeah. And the other good news is they have Chris South Laporte looks good and Matthew Brennan is racing this weekend. Who. He's a very, very talented rider. And this, you know, I mean, maybe, maybe this is me just grasping for straws, but in some ways, maybe this is good for Matthew Brennan because he's now, it's like it's not working for anybody. Like, he's the guy, Matt. Like, yeah, he has all the responsibility and some people flourish when they're given that opportunity. Yeah.
- [25:53]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. I mean, he's still young. I'm not necessarily thinking that even if Walt is there, that it's a bad thing for Matthew Brennan because he tends to be really good when somebody else has the pressure. And so now the pressures on him. We'll see. But anyways, it's the next step in his development and I have no doubt that he will be in the front. Matthew Brennan. There's some other riders, Spencer, that I think, you know, not big favorites, but I'm really interesting to see. For example, it's his first race of the season. But what if, you know, the. There's. Obviously Vanderpool is not going to do anything before half race, I assume. Right. Let's assume that. Jonas Abrahamson.
- [26:42]
Spencer Martin
I was just gonna say that. Yeah.
- [26:44]
Johan Berneil
He writes, have you seen what this guy have been doing in training quantity and, you know, the training charge. Man, that guy's insane. Yeah. He's so strong. So, you know, Abrahamsan could be a guy like he gets in a break and then, you know, the team start chasing him and nobody can catch him. That's, that's. That's not.
- [27:08]
Spencer Martin
I mean, it's not excluded just to give people a. Like a view of this. This was maybe 10 years ago. A writer in the Groupetto at the Tour said, mate, mate, I averaged 350 watts for six hours on a mountain stage just to finish inside the time limit. I'm saying, whoa, that's wild. Auburn Hudson is. Is up at altitude at Sierra Nevada, inside on Zwift. Doing that daily on Zwift. Like that. That's the type of rides he's putting in is unbelievable. I saw him out some pictures on the cobbles. He's looking fit. I don't think this is outside the realm of possibility, Johan, that he gets in an early break and makes things difficult for. For the peloton. I mean, we saw like, you know, you just. You do see funky stuff. You remember this year, what was it, 20, 22, 23 maybe, where Visma just blew it up from 100k out. Do you remember that?
- [28:05]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [28:06]
Spencer Martin
And I think that Visma won in 22 with Vanar. They won in 23 with Ven Baro. This is at Amloop 24 with Jan Trotnik. So they won three years in a row, I believe.
- [28:18]
Johan Berneil
They just didn't win last year.
- [28:19]
Spencer Martin
They did win last year. Now we're like, wow, these guys are down and out. Like, that is. We are forgetting some domination they've had. But I will say, going back to the Vample thing, I think. I don't know if that was necessarily good because they would have these dominant performances at Amloop and then they would. I just felt like they never recaptured the magic later in the classic season. Yeah. And so maybe being a little slower, or not slower, but coming in a little less hot to this weekend, maybe they can use that to build. I don't know that that would be something I looked at. But it is funny. I'm looking at the results, how much recent success Visma's had. And then now we're writing them off. But especially that, like Van Bar. Van Barl win, Trotnik win. You could. You could see Auburn Hunson causing problems for people.
- [29:04]
Johan Berneil
I think that was when Trotnik was away with Niels Poland, Right?
- [29:08]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. They kind of clipped off. It was all wild. And then they clipped off the front near the end and stayed away. You know, I also wanted to ask you about this. I was on a US sports like, chat platform and they were about Luca Donkic, who's a Slovenian basketball player and someone Proposed the question, like, is Luca. Even though Lucas probably. He's amazing, he's one of the best players in the NBA. But they were like, is he even the most accomplished athlete from his own country because of Tadpogachar? And then this cycling conversation broke out in the chat, which surprised me. But then someone said, you know, wout van are probably not Even a top 10 rider in the world anymore. I'm thinking, like, what? Like he. He's the only rider that's dropped out of Gotcha in the last two years. What are you talking about? Not a top 10 writer, so.
- [29:52]
Johan Berneil
Well, I mean, if you look at the points, I think if you look at the points rankings in front of me, but, you know, he slipped quite a bit. But. But you know, he also had a lot of. A lot of bad luck to deal with. What do you think of Matthias Vachek or Omlop? He's a rider that could go in between the moves and he's exactly the
- [30:14]
Spencer Martin
type of rider that would win amu. Yeah, I think so.
- [30:17]
Johan Berneil
And then another rider who's who I like Spencer. And sometimes it comes out of. If he wouldn't come out of nowhere because he's already been good this year is Sam Watson.
- [30:30]
Spencer Martin
Oh, I was just. I had just had him circled now. I can't say him, but yeah, Sam Watson on ineos, I think.
- [30:35]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think these. These are the guys. I'm curious though, to see Tom Pitcock. You know, Pitcock is a strange one, you would say. You know, he's kind of transformed more towards, you know, a rider for Liege and stage races. But he can, he can do this, he can write this and he's motivated, so. And he's actually one of those super, super talented writers like he did, you know, he's. He's has something special that not a lot of other writers have. You know, you could say on the pool Pugach. Even a pool like the super talented Pitcock is one of them. You know, he's special.
- [31:16]
Spencer Martin
He.
- [31:16]
Johan Berneil
And yeah, so yeah, I could see him rival with Matthew.
- [31:20]
Spencer Martin
Well, he. On the Wild Thing Pickaxe. Another writer where his results do not match his. His class, so to say. Yeah, I mean, someone was telling me, like, you know, if you watch Sanremo closely, you can tell Pagachar is not as good of a descender as Pitcock. It's like, that's true. And also Pidcock might be the best descender of all time. Like he is with the things he can do on a bike. Is. It's unbelievable. Mind boggling. Someone else I'm curious to watch Fred Wright. It's Pitcock's teammate now. Pinarello Q 36.5. I think he was ninth at Roubaix last year.
- [31:57]
Johan Berneil
If I'm like, yeah, yeah. But, you know, with all the respect for Fred Wright, you know, he's not in that category of these huge engines. You know, he's a good racer and he's smart and, you know, he's fast and he can win races. But I think a lot would need to happen and a lot of these bigger engines, we need to fail for Fred Wright to have a chance to win.
- [32:22]
Spencer Martin
Well, I'm just gonna do. We're gonna do some historical reading. These are just the winners between 2013 and 2015. Luca Paolini. Ian Standard. Ian Standard. 2021. Davide Ballerini. I mean, it's not always the big engine that wins this race. It is definitely the Oddball. It's. It's the Oddball Classic, which is. Which is why it's fun. I. I do tend to get to Flanders, and if you ask me, gun to my head, who won Omloop sometimes, I couldn't tell you. But it's a fun race, unpredictable race. Lot of like, I'm surprised, looking at the start list, it's the first we're going to see from a lot of these riders. It's, yeah, like people coming out of hibernation. Even though the season started two months ago, essentially. Do you want to take a quick break and then talk about who you like for Kern Brussels? Kern, I think AMU is probably the bigger race. It's the World Tour race. Kerna is a DOT pro race, but it's still a big, prestigious race. This episode is brought to you by Rag and Bone. You step to choose between jeans that look great and jeans that actually lasted. With rag and bone infused denim, you finally get both. Rag and bone Infused offers a range of fits tailored for any style and occasion. From slim and straight to athletic and relaxed. Infused denim is a wardrobe staple that pairs perfectly with any outfit in whatever fit you prefer. I recently got a pair of rag and bone infused jeans, and I've got to tell you, I'm officially obsessed. I went front. I went with the athletic fit in a dark indigo wash, and the first time I put them on, I was blown away. They felt broken and immediately stretched where you need them, structure where it matters. They move with you. I literally forgot I was wearing jeans. I was panicked. Do I have pants on? I don't know that's how comfortable they are. And in fact this to me this is the highest bar you can reach as any piece of clothing. I've worn them on long haul flights which I used to think was impossible. With jeans it's, it's the one thing I would never do. Now I'm wearing them, boom, I'm off the plane. I look good right away because I got my Ragamone jeans on and the color is unreal. Rag and Bone uses proprietary eight step overdye process so the wash has real depth to it. I've already had someone ask me where I got them. They look sharp, sharp enough for dinner, but I can throw on a tee and sneakers and they work all weekend. For 20 years they've been obsessed with making jeans that get better over time and they can feel quality right away. It's time to upgrade denim with Rag and Bone. For a limited time our listeners get 20% off their entire order with code the move at rag and bone.com that's 20% off rag-bone.com with promo code the move. When they ask you where you heard about them, please say us to support the show. All right, let's get back into it. Okay, Johan. So Kerner Brussels Kern on Sunday 195km. As I said some climbing but it stops long before the finish. Tends to be more of a sprinters race like recently won by Jasper Phillipson in 2025. Wout Van Art in 2024. Wow. Vanart pretty good at this weekend huh? He's one. He's won both Amloop and Kerna multiple times or on multiple different occasions. Tejmanute 2023 Little bit of a outlier there and then Fabio Jakobson, Mads Pedersen, Casper Askren. A little bit of an outlier. Bob Jungles, Dylan Groenevagan. So it's tends to be sprinter or small group stays away. Like I remember Jasper Stuyven stayed away on the final circuit in 2016. I like this race because stuff happens at Amloop and then you kind of have to show up the next day if things didn't go your way and try to correct course. Who do you think is going to win on Sunday?
- [35:53]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, I think Philipson is the favorite. You know we have Jonathan Milan is racing also. Yeah, you know he's not typically that kind of writer but I think he's in great shape. I'm gonna go for Paul Manier.
- [36:11]
Spencer Martin
Man, that was my pick.
- [36:15]
Johan Berneil
We haven't spoken before and it's funny. We, we, we, we have the same choices.
- [36:20]
Spencer Martin
I know. And Paul Monier, the thing I'm really interested. He's on fire. Just won two. Two stages at Algarve. A lot of wins. 26 wins. And he is only 21 years old.
- [36:32]
Johan Berneil
That's crazy.
- [36:33]
Spencer Martin
But he's not won a lot. You'd say the biggest stage. He has some World Tour wins, but he won this is crazy Tour of Guangxi. So that's like not a real World Tour race. Sorry. UCI, he won stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 6. So it's only one day that he didn't win. He won a Tour Tour of Poland. Yeah, it was like the. The summit finish Tour of Poland. He won a stage in 20, 25. That's a world Tour race. But you wouldn't say the biggest stage. So I'm super interested to see how he does on Sunday.
- [37:03]
Johan Berneil
He's. No, he's. He's stepping up. He's, you know, he's maturing and he should be a bit stronger. And also, it's kind of the guy that Sudal has to go for. You know, this. This is their leader. Curious to see also this. This young rider from Vlondren, Tom Krabbe, who. What he's gonna do. He's up there and then, you know, another guy I circled here, you know, not for anything in particular, but. It's strange that. It's strange that he's not doing umlop, but he does do K is Jakob Suderquist. I've heard that in Algarve, this guy was impressively strong from within the bunch. I've heard people who raced with him and said, wow, there's something else. There's some power there. So he could. Sorry, he could, in theory, get away. Although I think he's been put in the team to lead out the sprint for Milan. Otherwise. That's why I said I don't understand why he's not racing
- [38:22]
Spencer Martin
well. And. Yeah, so for the. It's a. That's a weird combination. Normally if you did one, you would do Omlope, and then you skip Kona. I. I actually don't. It's a very rare. It's like when you do the reverse double play in baseball. This is. Yeah, this is odd. But I mean, this.
- [38:39]
Johan Berneil
This is definitely. I mean, I think. I think the reasoning behind it is, you know, they. They get them in the race. Whatever needs to be done in the final to bring something back, he's gonna be there.
- [38:48]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:49]
Johan Berneil
And then. And then. And if he doesn't need to bring anything back he can do the lead out.
- [38:53]
Spencer Martin
I gotta say I'm, I, I'm not normally that pumped for krona. I'm very excited for this because I
- [38:59]
Johan Berneil
want to see lead outs in kuna Spencer, it's sorry to interrupt. It's very different than a lead out in a stage race. Yeah, well you're leading out against a bunch of dead bodies after a classic like this it's not, it's, you know there's not that top speed anymore so Surquist is obviously a great choice to, to be with Milan. I think Milan has his work cut out to be there in the final.
- [39:27]
Spencer Martin
Well I was just going to say I'm very excited to see Milan sprint against because he looked so good at UAE tour. He has his work cut out for him but this is a man who's podiumed getting w which is a harder race so I, I think he has a lot of classics potential. He's a very good climber so I'm curious to see how he does. It's obviously not as straightforward as a six lane highway sprint at UA Tour when it's kind of a foregone conclusion but I, I, I, I'm really excited to see how this plays out. Also someone we've not mentioned I believe is Binyam Girmai. How do you think he's gonna do?
- [40:07]
Johan Berneil
He should be okay. He should be okay. Especially in, especially in Kurne I think,
- [40:13]
Spencer Martin
I think too hard.
- [40:15]
Johan Berneil
You know that's a bit. Unless it's kind of regroups in the end it's always a possibility but for Kur Nabinyam is going to be there I think.
- [40:23]
Spencer Martin
Yes, I agree. I think Saturday is too hard Sunday but man we just, it's like a little sprint world championship we got here. Some strong sprinters showing up which of course means it won't be a sprint that someone's going to stay away and perhaps Jakob like you mentioned but any other, I'm trying to think of any other things we've not mentioned about these races. I mean the big question is does success at this weekend tell us who is going to be successful later in the classic season? What do you, do you think there's
- [40:57]
Johan Berneil
a correlation there but it's not a guarantee. You know it's, I'm just checking the weather here Saturday and Sunday. No like my hometown of is again but you know Kirna is, it's literally 10 kilometers away. It's gonna be real classic weather. It's you know, 10 degrees, 80% chance of rain and winds around 25 kilometers per hour. Well, actually. And then if you look. If I look at the detail, it could be. It could. They could be lucky. But it's going to be windy, so 20, 25 kilometers per hour. That's windy enough to make it a really hard race.
- [41:43]
Spencer Martin
And tomorrow, the secret race. So if you're a real cycling fan, you're going to be skipping on loop and you're going to be watching the Phonar Dash Classic. Fawn Ardesh Classic, Christian Scaroni. Pencil him in for the win. By the way, facing off against. We normally would not talk about this race. This is in France, in the Ardash region, facing Ben Healy, Mateo Jorgensen. Mateuszkalmoza Roman, Gregoire, Lenny Martinez, Jan Christian Egan Bernal, Mark Hershey, Paul Seychas. This goes on and on. Pretty interesting start list there. That's tomorrow.
- [42:19]
Johan Berneil
Wow, that's an interesting.
- [42:21]
Spencer Martin
I know. Our cup overfloweth with. With good racing tomorrow.
- [42:24]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:26]
Spencer Martin
I mean, I don't know if it really matters who wins this. I'm just excited to see this play out. Why it. I think we talked about this, but why is Mateo Jorgensen not at the Classics? He's saving himself for the Ardennes, Is that right?
- [42:41]
Johan Berneil
I mean, I guess that's the choice they made, you know, to. To have him focus more on. On the hilly races and the stage races. But Matteo Jorgensen is a rider who would definitely have his name in the list of the favorites we have.
- [42:58]
Spencer Martin
Especially. Yeah. For amloop. Yeah. Especially with no Van Aert. Maybe they wouldn't have done. Maybe they would have drawn it up differently.
- [43:06]
Johan Berneil
That's the thing, you know, that's the thing that I sometimes can't understand, Spencer, that these teams. So, you know, they. And Visma is kind of known for that a little bit. At least that's the impression I have from the outside, is that they make a plan and they just do not deviate from that plan. They don't improvise based on circumstances and things that happen. Matthias Jorgensen would be the ideal guy to step in here and lead Visma in the opening weekend.
- [43:38]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Johan Berneil
Yeah.
- [43:41]
Spencer Martin
I don't get it. It's. It is very rigid thinking. And then this is. It's just the French version of what we just talked about with Amloop and Kerno. And then on Sunday we have the. The Drone Classic, which is just going to be the same riders in a similar region of France racing again, which is fun because you just get two of the same races.
- [44:01]
Johan Berneil
Yeah.
- [44:01]
Spencer Martin
My big takeaway from here is I'M very excited to see all these guys race, like, especially Scamoza. But why is Jorgensen not sliding into the Classics team for Visma? That. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:13]
Johan Berneil
But maybe, Spencer, it's also a mental, you know, mental focus. You know, like, if you're already decided that that's not going to be your focus and you're already in the mindset, okay, I'll do the Hilliard races. Because those two races are hard races. You know, it's not so easy to then all of a sudden shift and say, okay, now, oh, by the way, I'm just gonna jump in and do Envelope with Nieceblood. You know, it's easy to say, why don't they do it? But there's more to it than just saying, okay, I'll just change my schedule. But I think you should be able to do that. You know, you have to. You have to be able to adapt.
- [44:57]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. I mean, that. That's a very reasonable. A reasonable take. It is. It's harder in real life than it is just sitting here saying stuff. But you're going to undermine our entire show if you keep pointing that out, that doing things in real life is harder than this. Someone we've not mentioned, I believe is Arno Deli.
- [45:17]
Johan Berneil
How do.
- [45:18]
Spencer Martin
How do you think he's going to do this weekend? And then I have a question for you about recent comments he. He made.
- [45:23]
Johan Berneil
I think he's going to be good, Spencer. The thing is, you know, we're not in a position to. To predict because we haven't seen anything special from him, but he's definitely a rider. Listen, he has the power. If he's healthy, I assume he's fit enough to race. But, I mean, he did Algarve. Right. So we didn't really see. He did Algarve. Yeah, I think, yeah.
- [45:48]
Spencer Martin
And he's like, he got fifth on Stage one. This is like, fine. But, yeah, but did you see these comments from him?
- [45:56]
Johan Berneil
So, you know, he has an injury also. He, he comes back from an injury. He was, he. He had to postpone his training quite a bit. I'm not sure now if it was a knee injury. I think it was a knee injury or like a ligament injury. So he's probably a bit behind. What. Which comments.
- [46:15]
Spencer Martin
So he's skipping Sanremo because. Says he cannot compete with Vanderpoel and Pagachar. I would not have advised him to do this interview because, as you say, maybe he's injured and this is the right thing to do. I don't want my leader saying that. I want them like, Tom Pickock shows up and Tom Pickock thinks he can win against these guys, even if he can't.
- [46:39]
Johan Berneil
Different mentalities. Pitcock, you know, Pitcock, when he starts, he always thinks he can win. And, you know, that's. That's the kind of motivation he needs. I think the lead. You know what? I don't. I don't dislike it. You know, I don't dislike the fact that, listen, he can't win. He can't win.
- [46:59]
Spencer Martin
I don't know about that. Sanremo Sin Remo's the weirdest race of the year. You don't know what's going to happen
- [47:05]
Johan Berneil
at San Remo with these guys there, and they destroy everything. He's going to be dropped on the Chipresa and he's not going to come back.
- [47:13]
Spencer Martin
Is that because of the injury or he's just not strong enough to get over it?
- [47:16]
Johan Berneil
No, I mean, he's not. Not. Not good. A good enough climber, but is he
- [47:19]
Spencer Martin
as good as Caleb Ewan? Caleb Ewan made it over the Poggio.
- [47:23]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Okay. How many years ago?
- [47:25]
Spencer Martin
It wasn't that long ago. You're like me. You're ready to leave history in the dust. Hold on a second. So, Milan Sanremo, let's look at this podium. So this was as recently as. I mean, this. You are right. The sports changed. So you. And got second in 2021. I mean, Michael Matthews damn near won the thing in 2024. Yasper Phillipson won. Like, is. Is Phillipson a better climber than Arnold Daly?
- [48:00]
Johan Berneil
I think he's more of a. I would say, you know, it's 200, it's 300 kilos. It's different, you know?
- [48:10]
Spencer Martin
Yeah,
- [48:13]
Johan Berneil
yeah. No, I can't see Arnaud Oli make it over to Cipresa. If Bogacha goes crazy there, and he's gonna go crazy. He knows that that's. That's what he needs to do to have a chance to win. He needs to go faster and faster up the Cipresa and. And there's no. There's no chance that the league can stay there.
- [48:33]
Spencer Martin
But what happens when. I love how we're just now doing outcomes for Sanremo. What happens, let's say Pigot goes all out of the Pressa. What does he do when he gets to the other side of it? Does he ride the valley by himself or like.
- [48:46]
Johan Berneil
Well, yeah, I mean, it's a good point. We've talked about it already. You know, it all depends what the other teams. If they. If they Freak out and they're all over the place. Or if they gather and, you know, they pause and get organized, they're gonna get him back, they're gonna get Pullachar back.
- [49:04]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [49:05]
Johan Berneil
The thing is that usually when Pukacha goes, it's. It's Vanderpool and, and Pitcock, maybe in Ghana. Who are there? Nobody else is there. So these guys are not going to sit on. They're going to collaborate.
- [49:20]
Spencer Martin
Do you think so?
- [49:22]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, I think so, yeah.
- [49:24]
Spencer Martin
I, Man, I. If I'm Pagacha, I. Yeah, it's. That's why San Ramo, I think, has turned into the best race of the year, because I. Yeah. Do you collaborate and then you. And then you have to drop Vanderpoel on the Poggio, Spencer.
- [49:39]
Johan Berneil
I mean, I, I think you've saw the images also on social media. Pugach are training on the poo behind the motorbike, flying up that thing, you know, like the guy who took the video, he was. I mean, he had almost no time to get him.
- [49:55]
Spencer Martin
It looks like a car. Like that's how fast he's going up.
- [49:58]
Johan Berneil
So we know he's taking it seriously, very seriously. And on the other hand, Minaso Rema is also a race where a lot of things can happen, you know, so we'll see. But anyways, that's still, still far out. Let's. Let's get through the opening weekend first in Belgium, and then we'll. We'll see what, where. I mean, and then next week, Strada Bianche, first race of Tadepogacher. I'm going to be there, by the way, in person with a group of clients who asked me to organize a trip. So it's going to be fun. And I'm riding the Gran Fondo on Sunday, the Strada Bianchi. Gran Fondo.
- [50:38]
Spencer Martin
How long. How far is that?
- [50:39]
Johan Berneil
It's 138 kilometers. 2, 200 meters of elevation and lots of gravel and.
- [50:48]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, so a lot of gravel. What, like what, what tires are you running? What's your strategy there?
- [50:52]
Johan Berneil
I'm not riding a gravel rival bike. I'm riding. No, sorry. I'm riding a gravel bike with road tires.
- [50:57]
Spencer Martin
Interesting. What? And you just. If you, you don't want to ride the gravel tires because you think it's going to be too slow on the paved climbs.
- [51:05]
Johan Berneil
Spencer, at my age, I need every single advantage I can get, you know, plenty of people in the Gran Fondo who's going to ride gravel bikes, and it's perfectly fine, but I just need a little Bit more speed on the, on the non. Gravel sections.
- [51:21]
Spencer Martin
It's funny. I am of the mind that I am so much faster in the gravel sections on the gravel bike. I usually would rather take the hit, but I was riding a gravel bike during the, like the Tour de France last year and I was staying on a mountaintop and a ski resort and we were doing the show in a valley and I would just ride home every day on the gravel tires. And I switched halfway through the Tour. I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I had to put the road tires on, so. I know what you mean. Sometimes you just, you need a little extra speed. You can really feel those things slowing you down at a certain point.
- [51:54]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Also the, the, you know, the gravel sections in. In Strada Bianca. It's not real gravel, you know, it's fine. Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot more. I mean, you can perfectly do it with, with road tires. That's not a problem.
- [52:09]
Spencer Martin
And this is just next weekend, is it? Is that.
- [52:13]
Johan Berneil
Wow.
- [52:13]
Spencer Martin
A week from Saturday and then that's p. Start of the season. Pagachar Del Toro, Pidcock Vanart, hopefully Ben Healy. So I'm. I'm pumped for that. Here's that before we go. Here is not really a question, just suggestion of the week. So people probably saw Apple bought about the Lance Armstrong movie with. Starring Austin Butler. Who's going to play everybody else is the question. Someone wrote in and saying just D. Liam Neeson with AI and he plays a young Johan Brielle. I think that could be. That could be it right there.
- [52:49]
Johan Berneil
I have no idea, Spencer. I have no idea.
- [52:50]
Spencer Martin
You have no idea who Liam Neeson is?
- [52:52]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [52:53]
Spencer Martin
I don't. Oh, you know who's.
- [52:55]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [52:56]
Spencer Martin
Well, he's also Irish. I. That could be. There's some hurdles there that maybe would be too hard to overcome.
- [53:03]
Johan Berneil
Oh, the Irish. I mean, I, I went out with the, you know, one of the greatest of all times. He's Irish. Sean Kelly.
- [53:10]
Spencer Martin
Sean Kelly.
- [53:10]
Johan Berneil
I rode again with him this week and last weekend and this week and yeah, he's very nice. And, and a group of Irish cyclotourists. You know, there's only a few Irish, you know how we call them, like David Walsh and Paul Kimmich, those two. I don't like these people, but they don't like me either.
- [53:34]
Spencer Martin
So
- [53:36]
Johan Berneil
whatever,
- [53:40]
Spencer Martin
no comment. Yeah, I, I did grow up thinking Ireland was a huge cycling country because Sean Kelly, Stephen Roach, all the journalists are Irish. I was like what. What happened there? How did this cluster of people get so into cycling from Ireland? Someone was asking me. They want, they want to do a list. 100 best cyclists of all time and harder than you think. They were starting with the top 10. Who would you put on your top 10? Your top 10 cyclists of all time list? Obviously, you'd start with Eddie Merckx, I assume.
- [54:11]
Johan Berneil
I mean, Sean Kelly is, you know, in the PC PCs ranking, he's number two. I'm definitely going to put Lance in there. You know, there's nobody who has won seven Tours, no matter what everybody says he's won those races. And to do that seven, seven times in a row is almost impossible.
- [54:32]
Spencer Martin
It's almost. It's also won a world championship.
- [54:34]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Classics, you know. So Bernard Hino, for sure. Yeah, in there. Boguchar is in there. You know, then, then just before the generation Bogacha, I'll also put Alejandro Valverde in there. Whoa.
- [54:55]
Spencer Martin
I like that.
- [54:56]
Johan Berneil
For sure.
- [54:57]
Spencer Martin
For sure.
- [54:58]
Johan Berneil
And then.
- [55:02]
Spencer Martin
Oh, then you, you start to get to some tough decisions because you have.
- [55:08]
Johan Berneil
He.
- [55:08]
Spencer Martin
No. And then would you. Who would you. Who else would you do from that era of stage racers or right below right before.
- [55:17]
Johan Berneil
Well, I mean, from. You know, what I also want to put in there is Francesco Moser.
- [55:23]
Spencer Martin
Moser, I like that.
- [55:25]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Who's actually, who was. Actually. I missed him. I missed. I missed him. I would have loved to have a coffee with him. He's. He was also riding here in. On the Costa Blanca with a group of Italian business people in pro cycling stats, ranking third of all time, by the way. Early Merckx, Sean Kelly, Francesco Moser. If you look at his Palmares, it's pretty impressive, you know, three times Rube won the Giro, World champion, I mean, you name it, you know, he was, he was, he was incredible. World hour record holder. Yeah. Legend. Legend.
- [56:01]
Spencer Martin
He's like, he looks like. He's like an impressive athlete, too. When you look at him, you don't see a lot of cyclists like that. What about, like, Jean Ankatil?
- [56:13]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah, obviously. I mean, I, I, you know, it's before. I have no recollection of him.
- [56:18]
Spencer Martin
I know. Yeah. It's hard when.
- [56:20]
Johan Berneil
No, he's true. He was. You have Jacqueline Petilia falls to copy if these guys are legends, you know.
- [56:29]
Spencer Martin
Yep. And then we got one more. What about what. Here's the big question. The thing I could not figure out. What do you do with Chris Froome? So he has seven Grand Tour wins. That's a lot. Yeah, it's fifth of all time. You got what, four tour friends, four
- [56:49]
Johan Berneil
tours to Vueltas and 1 0.
- [56:51]
Spencer Martin
And then that's all. Impressive. Almost no one day success to speak of. To me, that's where it gets really difficult. Yeah. Yeah.
- [57:01]
Johan Berneil
It's just what's happening with Chris from by the way. I mean that's, it's.
- [57:05]
Spencer Martin
He's not retired.
- [57:07]
Johan Berneil
I mean. No, I mean the thing. He's obviously retired, but I, I cannot understand why he didn't make an announcement. That's like.
- [57:14]
Spencer Martin
I think he's looking for a ride.
- [57:16]
Johan Berneil
Sorry?
- [57:17]
Spencer Martin
I think he's looking for a ride on a team.
- [57:20]
Johan Berneil
I don't think so. I don't think so. That's.
- [57:22]
Spencer Martin
It's, it's. I'd say if this is it, it's one of the weirdest retirements I've ever seen.
- [57:26]
Johan Berneil
Yeah. Recently I have no information but you know, I mean his, his Paul Mares is impressive, you know, and we all know what changed, you know, after that accident in the Dauphine. It was, you know, game over, basically never. He could never come back from that, you know, and it's understandable, but it's, it's. I struggle to, you know, like, why has he not made an announcement? I don't, I don't, I think he can't.
- [57:54]
Spencer Martin
I don't think he's ready for the closure.
- [57:56]
Johan Berneil
I think so too. He thinks, I think he still likes it so much that he doesn't want to quit.
- [58:05]
Spencer Martin
But.
- [58:06]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, I mean I'm just, just came up now, but I, I don't, I don't, I don't know what's happening there.
- [58:11]
Spencer Martin
What do you do with someone like Roger de Vlamk? 11 monument wins.
- [58:15]
Johan Berneil
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [58:16]
Spencer Martin
Roger probably would be here. This is what's crazy.
- [58:19]
Johan Berneil
I mean, what I find really sad, you know, I mean obviously I seen Roger race as a kid, you know, he was always there. He was super unfortunate to have had Eddy Merckx cross his path. But many times he was the only guy who could follow Eddy Merckx. And he was an incredible, incredible racer. More a one day racer than anything else. Although he did win Tiereno Adriatico and he did win Tour of Switzerland, but you know, never won a Grand Tour. Was never close to winning a Grand Tour. But man, lately his interviews, man, in Belgium, it's something else. It is so sad to see. I don't know, I don't know why nobody protects Roger from, from giving interviews. I mean, obviously some of the media, they jump on it because they know Roger's gonna Say stuff I know.
- [59:11]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [59:12]
Johan Berneil
Makes noise. But it's sad to see. Like, you know, I would have loved to race against Pugachar. I would have beaten him. You know, he would. He would never have been able to drop me, and I would have beaten him in the sprint. Or then criticizing Vanderpoel, saying, yeah, Vanderpool is not the greatest cycling of all. Cyclocross guy of all times. My brother was. Because the competition. I mean, the competition was nothing back in the days, you know, it was. It's not Matthieu's fault that he's so much above everybody else. Listen, Matthew van der Poel is definitely by far the best cyclocross rider of all time. Plus a bunch of other disciplines where he's the best.
- [59:54]
Spencer Martin
It's not even close. Also, if you. If you just look at the pure numbers, this is going to be controversial. No other writer in history has had as much cobbled success as he's had with his few starts, if that makes sense. Like, it's not even close.
- [60:09]
Johan Berneil
Yeah, yeah. Oh, listen, he's unique. But then, you know, I mean, I'm coming back to those interviews of Roger de Vlamink, you know, I mean, and I respect Roger as. I mean, he's incredible. He was an incredible champion. But, man, it's sad to see that in his old age, he. He goes off like this. It's always negative. There's never anything constructive or positive or, you know, he can't admire nowadays cyclists. He needs to criticize them all the time. And, you know, if it's once in a while, it's okay, but, you know, all the time, it's, Roger, stop giving interviews, please. Or somebody around Roger, tell him he needs to stop giving interviews because it's not. It's not fun anymore.
- [60:51]
Spencer Martin
It's kind of common in the US you see a lot of, like, the former generation has nothing positive to say about, like, every NBA player that's retired is just saying that type of stuff.
- [61:02]
Johan Berneil
It's so much more difficult now to. To. To be at the top in cycling than back in Roger's days. And he was a great. He was a great champion, but the competition is 10 times bigger nowadays than back in his day.
- [61:18]
Spencer Martin
Well, and the obvious hole in his argument is so you would just sit on Pagatro's wheel and not get dropped. What happened at the 1975 Giro, there was three riders of that race that are fat, that were faster than Pagachar is now. Like, why don't you hold their wheels and drop them
- [61:34]
Johan Berneil
he was not a stage racer, you know, I mean, that's why he's always. Yeah, I was so much better. I was so much better. No, you were not. You never won a Grand Tour. You'd never been on a podium, in a ran tour. You were great recyclist, but you were not the greatest, you know, and just accept it. That's it. You know, be happy and proud of what you did, but just, you know, move on, man.
- [61:58]
Spencer Martin
And. But to end us on a more positive note, this blew my mind. So you're going? I was going. You know, trying to figure this list out. Going through the most monument wins of all time. Eddie Merckx, number one. Roger De Vlanik, number two. Do you know who number three is on this list? This is the most monument wins ever.
- [62:19]
Johan Berneil
How many does Roger have?
- [62:20]
Spencer Martin
11.
- [62:21]
Johan Berneil
11. Then it's going to be Matthew van der Poel or Pogachar.
- [62:25]
Spencer Martin
No, Teddy Pugachar, third all time.
- [62:29]
Johan Berneil
Yeah.
- [62:30]
Spencer Martin
Unbelievable. He's 27 years old. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Vanderpoel actually two behind him. Pagacha is winning monuments at such a rate, we forgot they weren't tied like they. They were tied like I. I just. Last time I checked, what happened. So. Man, that is un. Yeah. Vanderpoel's not. He's eighth of all time. Okay. And he's not been. He's been racing monuments for, what, four years or whatever. Didn't he start in 2021?
- [62:57]
Johan Berneil
Who today?
- [62:59]
Spencer Martin
Vanderpoel.
- [63:00]
Johan Berneil
Oh.
- [63:02]
Spencer Martin
I think the first monument he did was that Flanders where he. Remember, he was, like, on the sidewalk
- [63:07]
Johan Berneil
and he crashed and then finished fourth.
- [63:09]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. And that wasn't that long ago. And I believe. I think that's his worst cobbled result ever, is that fourth place, which is unbelievable. Yeah. Good, good. Writer Matthew Vanderbolt probably will win on Saturday. And that's. And that's our pick. And that's our show. Anything else, dad? Johan, that's it.
- [63:29]
Johan Berneil
Let's see tomorrow what happens.
- [63:31]
Spencer Martin
All right. Well, I'm excited for the kickoff of the year. And then we're into it. You'll be at Strata. We'll be doing a show right after that. And then. Then we're into San Remo. But great talking to you. And we will talk on Monday. Let's talk about the races.
- [63:46]
Johan Berneil
Thanks, Spencer. Bye.
- [63:55]
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Pacific Source Narrator
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