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- [00:00]
Spencer Martin
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- [00:22]
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- [00:52]
Johan Berniel
From our side, we've never been able to tell our story. And it's not that it's going to be all, I mean, obviously Lance is involved in the project, but it's going to be, you know, the good, the bad and the ugly, don't get me wrong. And so should it be, you know, but, but at least I think with some nuances which I think are necessary.
- [01:20]
Spencer Martin
Everybody, welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel as usual for our weekly show where we go through the recent racing action and then talk about a little bit of news today. Johan, we're going through the Tour of Oman. Christian Scron winning that for SDX Astana with his teammate Christian Rodriguez. Second, Remco Evanopole wrapping things up at Volta Valenciana just like you predicted at the end of, or I guess, yeah, the end of last week. And I, I've, we have a big debate coming up after that. We're going to debate what's going on at Visma. Is Jonas Finnegaard already in trouble for the Giro d'? Italia? But before we get into that, let's just do, let's just quickly run through these races. So Tour of Oman I How much of this did you watch? Johan? It's kind of a funny race to watch because it's on streamed on YouTube on like the Omani tourism channel. It's actually a pretty good race the way they do it because they have the Muscot Classic that starts it and then it goes, that's a one day race separate from the stage race and then it goes into the stage race that finishes on Green Mountain, which is a very big, almost laboratory type climb. Maro Schmid won the Muscot Classic and then actually won a stage later in it and then the final stage. I honestly thought Adam Yates was gonna roast everybody, but no, the XDS Astana crew beat up on him. Scrone wins. I think we talked about Scrone a few weeks ago, that this guy is unbelievable at winning early season races. What, what did you think about this win?
- [02:49]
Johan Berniel
I mean, it looks like Astana has picked up where they left it in the spring. You know, like it's the same team. Yeah, maybe a bit stronger even, I would say. Obviously Christian Rodriguez is, is a great addition to the team. He comes from Archaea, I guess, and he already did some really good rights, good performances there. I mean one two in the, in the Queen stage and then one two in the gc. And I checked, I saw somewhere at the same time they also won the two Asian championship titles. I think Yevgeny Fedorov won both the road race and the time trial because Kazakhstan belongs to Asia. And they got on one day 1065 points.
- [03:43]
Spencer Martin
Geez.
- [03:44]
Johan Berniel
On one day. So they're now number one ranked.
- [03:47]
Spencer Martin
Are we sure about that? Because I'm looking at the world ranking, the UCI rankings updated 11:00pm and February 12th. So that was last night. And they are UAE Team Emirates number one, 2600 points. Astana 20. Basically 2500.
- [04:05]
Johan Berniel
Okay, well maybe, maybe Asana. Maybe. I don't know. What, what. So what would have happened that, that you.
- [04:12]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, like what points? Well, I.
- [04:16]
Johan Berniel
But anyways, listen, I mean they're up there, but the thing is that they got 1065 points in one day. Spencer.
- [04:22]
Spencer Martin
Geez.
- [04:23]
Johan Berniel
And that's like, that's like equal to. Is it, is it equal to a top three in, in a, in a Grand Tour or something? Well, I mean, I don't know. The points, the points.
- [04:32]
Spencer Martin
Actually a really good question. I mean, let's do Tour de France. It's. That's a big race. That's going to have the most points. I don't think that would be top three, but it would be. Well, no, you said 1,000 points, 165.
- [04:48]
Johan Berniel
Points in one day.
- [04:49]
Spencer Martin
Jonas Finard last year got 140 UCI points for second place at the Tourns.
- [04:55]
Johan Berniel
Look, look at this. This is pretty, pretty amazing. Wow. Obviously. Listen, at the Asian Championships, with all due respect, you know, the, the level is not as the European Championships or something like that, but yeah, I mean, good for them, you know, I mean Fedorov, Fedorov is double Asian champion. Is he going to ride in that jersey then the whole season? I guess so.
- [05:24]
Spencer Martin
I guess. What happens if you're a national champion and an ended continental champion.
- [05:28]
Johan Berniel
I'll actually, you know what, I'll actually find out really quickly because in, I mean we're going to see Fedorov in action a lot earlier than that. But my son's new team, so he's in juniors and there's a guest rider who comes from April to September from Kazakhstan and he just won the junior Asian Championships. So he's going to race in that jersey here in Europe. Crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean listen, Astana, they, what a, what a start, man. And, and it's like everything Spencer, I mean last year we said oh wow, you know, they're not going to be able to maintain this. They did maintain that level. I was one of them who said, you know what, they're gonna fall in, fall apart in the middle of the season. You know, it was not even close for their survival in the World Tour. They kept winning. And this sets the, the tone again at Adastama to, you know, everybody's super motivated, great atmosphere. When things work out like this, it tends to keep going unless you get injuries and illness, which we will talk about a little bit later. But yeah, I mean, good on them. You know, they, they're, I mean they're off to a great, great, great start.
- [06:53]
Spencer Martin
This actually shows you maybe there's some flaws in the UCI point system because Fedorov got 250 points for winning that race and a tour to front stage win is worth less than that. So they might need to retool that.
- [07:06]
Johan Berniel
He won two titles. He won the, the road race and the time trial.
- [07:09]
Spencer Martin
And the time trial and the time trial was 70 points. So that's over 300 points between those two races. Interesting. I mean it shows you there's, they're like still thinking about this, which is smart because points now are equal. Like it doesn'. Points gained at the end of the three year period aren't worth any more than these. So you might as well get away.
- [07:29]
Johan Berniel
I mean this is, this sets this. I mean if you do it, if you do great in year one, I mean look, for example, let's take the example of, of lotto last last season, 2025, they were already. Because they did a great second year and they, they were up there in the middle of the ranking and last year they were actually not good at all last season and they, they got back into the World Tour, you know, so do great in year one and two. Year three is, you know, you have a lot less stress, you know, do.
- [08:04]
Spencer Martin
You know who the third ranked team is in the UCI points rankings.
- [08:10]
Johan Berniel
Has to be Red Bull.
- [08:11]
Spencer Martin
It's Jaco Jacob. Yeah, like that is, that's important for them. Rebels fourth. That is big for Jacob, as you say, to get off on a start like that. Usually that, that sets the tone for the season.
- [08:25]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:26]
Spencer Martin
And I'm speaking of Jacob Maro Schmid1. I mean this might be the best I've ever seen. Schmid, I know he won a Giro to tell you stage, but to win the Moose Got Classic and then to win that stage. What Was that? Stage 3 of the race was really impressive. I mean this guy is flying right now.
- [08:45]
Johan Berniel
He was already second in two down under also.
- [08:47]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah. So. And he flew straight from Tour down under this race, I believe.
- [08:53]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, man, nowadays, man, they're, they're never home, these guys, you know. No, no.
- [08:58]
Spencer Martin
I hope they flew in business class. That, that's a, that's a tough flight.
- [09:01]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I think so. I think so.
- [09:03]
Spencer Martin
Can you imagine like middle seat economy and it's like, are you ready to race? Hope you're ready, man. Adam Yates third. Do we read anything into this for you? I actually thought was a rare non wind filled weekend for uae.
- [09:20]
Johan Berniel
I don't read anything into it. You know, Adam Yates is obviously, you know, he's still good, but he's also at the end of his career obviously still good, but you know, he didn't have that. I mean he was trying and he was putting everybody in the hurt locker. But yes, Caroni just had that extra acceleration. Pretty impressive actually.
- [09:45]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [09:46]
Johan Berniel
And then Adam Yates just basically, you know, when he saw he couldn't win, he got passed by Christian Rodriguez, also still third. He is going to be one of the two protected guys, I guess in UAE to. Or not together with Del Toro.
- [10:02]
Spencer Martin
Yep.
- [10:04]
Johan Berniel
Which is obviously a bigger goal for them than Oman. But. But yeah, I mean, still up there, he's still third.
- [10:10]
Spencer Martin
UA's last win was February 7th. A slump, rare slump that they're in.
- [10:18]
Johan Berniel
Like three, four days ago.
- [10:19]
Spencer Martin
It's almost. We're getting up to a week. This is disaster at UAE headquarters. I'm curious to see. I mean it shows you too. Christian Rodriguez. That's a smart little pickup. Arcadia goes under, they get this guy. He's really good. Like, yeah. Seriously good writer. Yeah.
- [10:37]
Johan Berniel
Now he's a very underestimated and undervalued rider, but he's able to be, I mean, not gonna be with the top three, four guys, but when there's like 10, 15 guys left in the Mountains. He's usually there.
- [10:51]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, really good. So let's. The Volta Valenciana. You called this, I think last show was the day before the Queen stage. You said Remco is going to destroy everyone, going to win. I wasn't so sure. You can take a victory lap because he just destroyed everybody in the most straightforward way possible. Just had his team. The thing that impressed me the most about this was the team working together so seamlessly. Like that's. They've not been together long and they look really cohesive and really good.
- [11:19]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean, listen, they have full confidence in Remco. I guess this is already from the training camps that they did together. You know, they saw his level. I remember this one day in Mallorca, they did, I don't know how, 270k or something at almost 40k an hour. This, this training ride, do you remember that?
- [11:42]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, that's like really hard to do. Imagine being on that ride.
- [11:49]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I, I heard that the Belgians were obligated to go with Remco. The Belgians on the team obligated. The rest was optional. Um, but yeah, listen, they have full confidence and yeah, I mean he just on, on Cumbre del Sol, which is this climb out of Moraira, which is where Vanderpool lives. Van der Poel lives there on top. I don't, don't exactly know where, but I mean, imagine having to go up there every day after your training ride.
- [12:20]
Spencer Martin
I know, yeah, I, I don't know about that. I want to live up there.
- [12:26]
Johan Berniel
Maybe he goes with, I mean, maybe he has the car down. You know something after a seven hour ride, having to go up there, that's not, that's not much fun.
- [12:37]
Spencer Martin
No, I was, I was just on top of Mount Lemmon in Arizona and I saw that at some point in the past Mike woods had done a training camp where he was on top of Lemon and then doing rides where he would do like a hundred mile ride and then have to finish up a two hour climb. That's.
- [12:52]
Johan Berniel
Which is, which is what happens when you're on the table.
- [12:55]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [12:56]
Johan Berniel
Or on Sierra Nevada, same thing. You know, it's always Sierra Nevada. I think you could also say it's probably, it's probably also 30k. If you go, come all the way down from Granada. It's. It's probably a 30 kilometer climb. The Tay there is, you know, either 30 or more depending from which side you go up.
- [13:15]
Spencer Martin
And it sounds like if you're sitting here listening to the show, you're probably thinking, oh, I could do 30k climb, end of 100 mile ride, no problem. It's like I, I came back from that ride thinking, I don't know if I could do that. Like, it's gotta be a sickening feeling, especially if you're shot. You gotta climb 30K back. That's ridiculous.
- [13:34]
Johan Berniel
But obviously it's short. I think it's, it's about 3k, maybe a little less 2.8k or something. But it's incredibly steep. And yeah, Remco just, it was, you know, nobody was surprised. Right. So Red Bull started to put the tempo from the very. I mean, the whole stage actually. The whole stage, yeah, it was a hard stage, Spencer. I think it was 3400 meters of elevation total. I mean for February. That's early February, that's, that's hard. And yeah, I mean then on the bottom of Cumbre del Sol they went full gas and Remco took over with what, one cave to the top?
- [14:18]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. And he didn't even attack. He just wrote everybody up his wheel.
- [14:22]
Johan Berniel
And it was Tiberi who would, who could stay with him, what like 150 meters probably. And he was gone.
- [14:29]
Spencer Martin
You saw it immediately because there's a strong group. It was Almeida, Pilizari, Mignolti in that group and then Tiberi. They didn't even try to go with them. Tiberi goes with them. But you could tell within four seconds. Yeah, it's like this is not a good idea. Like you're not gonna make it.
- [14:45]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean, you could ask yourself the question, you know, like, would it be better to not try and then just stay together these four guys and try to reel him in in the last 10k?
- [14:59]
Spencer Martin
I would say so, yeah.
- [15:01]
Johan Berniel
But Remco goes fast also.
- [15:04]
Spencer Martin
That was the craziest part is. Yeah, this guy rides everybody off his wheel, doesn't even really stand up and it's not a shoe. I knew I could have turned the TV off right there. Like I knew he was going to win. 13K to the finish. But in reality it should not have been a shoo in because he has a group of four strong guys chasing him and he's by himself. But I don't think he lost any time. Like it was really.
- [15:29]
Johan Berniel
He kept gaining. I mean, he finished with 20 something seconds on top. I think he was probably 10 seconds.
- [15:36]
Spencer Martin
And Almeida had a teammate with them. A strong teammate. Yeah, well, he did, we should say Ebenipole had Pelizarry, his teammate, sitting at the back of the group, which as we talked about a Few weeks ago does cause problems because what if they pull Rimco back? They know that Pelizar is going to attack them. Yeah. And they've just done all this work.
- [15:55]
Johan Berniel
So by the way, you know, really, really good impression. Looks really strong. Did the last lead out to launch Remco's acceleration. I would say we're not going to call it an attack. And then didn't flinch. You know, just stayed with the, with with the next guys. You know, it's not like he did the lead out and exploded. He just stayed there.
- [16:19]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah. No, he's really good. Like better. He's 20, 22 years old. Looked I thought better than last year when he finished. What did he finish at the. He finished sixth at the Vuelta and at the Giro and so that's definitely someone I would keep an eye on at the Giro d' Italia this year. Looks really good.
- [16:36]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, no, it's going to be there. I mean his co leader with Jay Hindley but I mean last year already in the, in the, in the Giro. Spencer in the last week I think he was the top two or three best climber in the Giro.
- [16:51]
Spencer Martin
I, I think I said on the show I was like is he going to win the Giro? Like that's how good he looked climbing and then he kind of struggled a little on the last day. But he's 21 years old at the so yeah. First time riding GC in a grand Tour. I believe so I'll made it the final gc. The last day was kind of interesting too. We go into stage five. Did you see there's a two hour stage. That's ridiculous.
- [17:12]
Johan Berniel
90 something kilometers.
- [17:13]
Spencer Martin
Right.
- [17:14]
Johan Berniel
Must have been so fast. I don't know if they shortened it or. Because they did. They did kind of neutralize the time trial because of the wind. There was a race but didn't count for gc. I don't know if it was planned.
- [17:27]
Spencer Martin
I couldn't tell. Yeah, I thought that that was a really 94k for a stage would be really short.
- [17:33]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Spencer Martin
But it was kind of a. If it wasn't planned, it should be planned because it was a. It was like an always on stage because it's only 95k. It looked like we didn't really see it. There was a super strong breakaway. Ineos had multiple riders in it and then they crashed out which oops, that's probably not how they planned that. And then they had Ben Turner chasing, trying to win the sprint from behind but it looked like UAE maybe broke like split the field up because it was a really small peloton chasing that breakaway at the end.
- [18:03]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, they tried. I think they tried to surprise Remco, but in a race like Valencia, that's going to be very difficult, especially the last. The last stage. Yeah. Unfortunate to see AJ August, who was again in the break crash, and then was it. Was. Was it Turner and I don't know who the other guy was.
- [18:25]
Spencer Martin
I thought they had another guy originally in the move.
- [18:29]
Johan Berniel
No. Heidukim Heiduk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, those roads, man, there's. They were shiny. You know, they could be. It can be greasy over there. Yeah. So, yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't wet, and they. They just slid out and so final.
- [18:46]
Spencer Martin
GC was Remco having a pull first. Almeida second, 31 seconds back. Pelizarry third, 34 seconds back, which also Riley Sheehan from Boulder, Colorado, ninth overall. Good little finish for him. Keep an eye on him. He's recovering from his injuries. He's on Innocent W. Branded ipt.
- [19:04]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [19:05]
Spencer Martin
But Almeida gets second. But it's kind of a. Like these. These gaps look close, but it's artificially close because the time trial didn't count. So it's even more impressive if you think about it that way. Almeida gets his. I believe he was second here last year as well to Santiago Butrago, if I'm not mistaken. And if you think, well, what did we learn here? Almeida, he's got a lot of racing left before the Giro. Pelizarri, I would say the big takeaway for the Giro to tell you is I'm not so sure, actually, that it's Vindegaard versus Almeida. I would be circling Pelizarry as someone to watch because this guy looks like he's putting it together really fast. And Almeida, it's, like, still was struggling at points of, like, not in the right place, getting caught up in sports.
- [19:51]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. Yeah. But it's.
- [19:52]
Spencer Martin
It's. It's early.
- [19:53]
Johan Berniel
Almeida is a diesel. You know, if you look at his program also, I'm gonna guess he's gonna do Algarve, then. He's gonna do. What are you doing?
- [20:05]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, it's like a packed schedule. It's Algarve, Paris, Catalonia.
- [20:09]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I mean, he's gonna be ready for the Giro. I have no doubts. I mean, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not worried about Almeida. He's going to be ready for the Giro.
- [20:17]
Spencer Martin
So here. This is a little bit. Let's just acknowledge before we get into this. Remco doing great. Six Wins in one and a half weeks. Like season couldn't have started any better. But Johan, did he show us anything at this race that we didn't already know? Like it was. It did we. Has he added anything to the arsenal that's going to let him compete with Pagacha and Vinagard in 2026?
- [20:43]
Johan Berniel
I think this is Remco's level that we expected. He himself said that he's not in top shape. I don't know if it was. I think it was the Belgian media. He said probably 85%. It's difficult. 85% of his top shape.
- [21:03]
Spencer Martin
I don't know how scientific.
- [21:05]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. He says he's on his typical weight of the spring. So. And I. I do agree he's not. He's not lean like Tour de France lean yet like he was two years ago. And he knows that.
- [21:22]
Spencer Martin
He said.
- [21:22]
Johan Berniel
He actually said the same. He said, I can still lose some weight for the Tour. And I. I think the main thing is that, you know, he, he came in with a bang. His team believes in him. The atmosphere in the team must be amazing and, you know, up to the next one, which is going to be UAE Tour, right?
- [21:41]
Spencer Martin
For Aramco, UAE Tour it is. I mean, it matters, but it doesn't matter. But it kind of. It kind of matters. Let's say he doesn't win UAE Tour, like, how does that really affect his career? Probably not a lot, but mentally, I mean, I would say the thing I was most. My big takeaway from this is obviously we know Remco is real strong on rolling stages. Like, we didn't really learn that, but the team just looked like they're clicking. I. Yeah, we didn't see Suit all quick step look like that. In my opinion, like, this is Remco on a far better team than he's been on in the past.
- [22:14]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, for sure.
- [22:15]
Spencer Martin
For sure. I. Having said that, he's got to be able to. I think if he wants to be. Gotcha. He's got to be able to get those like 10 watts per kilo for two minutes and then hold seven and a half watts per kilo for half an hour. I'm not quite sure he's there yet, but we'll see. And as we've talked about, it's not really a race against Bogachar yet. That's the wrong question. In my opinion. It should be. Can you be second behind Bogachar?
- [22:40]
Johan Berniel
Because I think Remco's in. Obviously he's in. He's in good shape. We're going to see now, against Del Toro, who's the number two in the world, right, in uae.
- [22:54]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [22:54]
Johan Berniel
He is number two, Right.
- [22:56]
Spencer Martin
It's kind of crazy. Yeah. It's kind of interesting to think, is he. Are we already ranking him as a better writer than Cheval Amida? Probably, I guess.
- [23:06]
Johan Berniel
Del Toro. Well, there's more potential.
- [23:09]
Spencer Martin
They both got second at Grand Tour.
- [23:11]
Johan Berniel
By the way, last year we spoke last. In the last show, we spoke about him being in Mexico at altitude. He's not at altitude. He's. I have a friend, a friend who sent me a message who listens to the show. Ex cyclist who I think. I think I remember him racing in Belgium at some point. So he said he's been training all winter at his hometown, Ensenada, at sea level. Hard trainings. The local government has put at his disposal a van for his crew and a police car and a motorbike to accompany him every day of training.
- [23:49]
Spencer Martin
Geez. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
- [23:52]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, that's really cool. That's like. Then you're a star. You're a star.
- [23:57]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, that's actually that. That's a legitimate advantage, too. Like, think of how less. How easy it is for him to access. It's also a beautiful area. Like, it's just.
- [24:06]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. No stress, you know, like, you train, you're protect. You're in a bubble. Yeah. Which, you know, we see in Colombia, for example. You know, you see all these Colombian.
- [24:15]
Spencer Martin
Right.
- [24:15]
Johan Berniel
We saw Iran and Nairo and Bernal, and they're all. They're all training with motorbikes around them because the fans are. It's like they're in a race. They're on the side of the road clapping, applauding. By the way, I don't know if you saw. I mean, I watched the Colombian national championship, Spencer. Wow, that was something else. Won by Egon Bernal. It was in his hometown, Zipakira, and it was at altitude. So there was. There was a steep climb, 901 km, maybe. Super, super steep. Parts of 20%, and it was above 2,500 meters. The crowds were crazy. Like, not even the Tour de France. The Tour de France is nothing compared to the crowds there were at the national championships in Colombia. It was unbelievable.
- [25:07]
Spencer Martin
Well, I guess, remember, like Tour of Colombia V to Colombia, it was a few years ago, and it would just be crazy. Crowds, like, bigger than the Tour de France.
- [25:17]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, this was the same. This was insane. And then, you know, I mean. But now winning in his hometown Was, was unbelievable. He was dropped, actually he was dropped and it looked like he was not going to win because it was his ex teammate Ivan Sosa who was the strongest on the climbs. Dropped everybody and then Bernal came back with 3,4k to go and let's say two man sprint.
- [25:41]
Spencer Martin
Bernal's contract up at the end of the season? No.
- [25:44]
Johan Berniel
Well, yes, actually, yes. But the negotiations are almost done for an extension.
- [25:51]
Spencer Martin
Well, yeah, well, let's just say it's up. What would you offer him going forward? He's 29 years old, he's not a Grand Tour winner anymore. But like 8th at Lombardia 1 estage of the Vuelta, 7th of the 0 like on the open market, like if you just change his name to like, I don't know, like Vindex D Bar and he's a, he's, he's just a 29 year old anonymized writer. What is that guy worth on the market?
- [26:25]
Johan Berniel
You're not anonymous. You're not anonymous. If you have those results, you're like.
- [26:30]
Spencer Martin
Those are pretty good results. There's not many writers that can do that.
- [26:32]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, but you know, it's not, you're right, you know, like it's there. The, and I hope he could come back and I would love to see him on the podium of for example the Vuelta, which I think he's aiming for. But yeah, obviously his market price has gone down compared to for sure the long term contract he had signed with Ineos a few years ago. Actually, I think just before the accident he, he had.
- [27:03]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I think it was like months before the accident.
- [27:05]
Johan Berniel
I think he had renewed for three years. No.
- [27:07]
Spencer Martin
Yep.
- [27:08]
Johan Berniel
I don't know, man. I don't, I have no idea. I don't know what he's making now. I've heard he has a really big contract north of 2 million, but a lot more than 2 million. Yeah. So I don't know, I don't know. I, I don't want to be disrespectful to Bernal and you know, I'm out of the market, you know, I, I don't know the prices anymore. It's still going to be a really good contract though, because it's not just, it's not just, I don't think it's, it's not just what he can bring in terms of results. I think it's also the respect Egon Bernal has within the team. He is extremely well respected and, and you know, when, when in hard races he's up there, you know, he's could be top five, maybe. Podium winning is probably going to be difficult, but you never know.
- [28:04]
Spencer Martin
I think if we. If you think about him as a Grand Tour winner or. That is the goal, it seems disappointing. But what did we say a few weeks ago? There's 40 riders won a Grand Tour stage last year, and he's one of those 40.
- [28:18]
Johan Berniel
But, but, but, you know, Spencer, let's not forget he won the Tour and the Giro already.
- [28:22]
Spencer Martin
But that's almost like. That's a different person, you know, you almost have to, like.
- [28:26]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [28:27]
Spencer Martin
Separate that.
- [28:28]
Johan Berniel
Phil, if you look. Spencer, if. Okay, look at it this way. In terms of ineos, you look at the roster, and I don't have it in front of me, so. But Bernal, you could say, okay, it's very realistic to say we're going to go either to the Giro or the Vuelta. And top five is a very realistic goal. Correct.
- [28:50]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [28:51]
Johan Berniel
How many of those writers does INEOS have on their roster?
- [28:54]
Spencer Martin
There's not many.
- [28:58]
Johan Berniel
Like Oscar only.
- [29:00]
Spencer Martin
Well, what about Rodriguez?
- [29:02]
Johan Berniel
It's been a while.
- [29:03]
Spencer Martin
You know, it's. Yeah, you'd say it's. It's a positive.
- [29:07]
Johan Berniel
He's been top five in the Tour, but last year was a disappointing season, obviously very, you know, very disturbed by a very complicated collarbone fracture, which never seemed to heal, you know, But I would put Bernal definitely in the same category as Rodriguez, if not better. I don't know.
- [29:33]
Spencer Martin
I don't know. Well, I think.
- [29:34]
Johan Berniel
I think Bernala's still better.
- [29:38]
Spencer Martin
I don't know. If you're not gonna get fifth of the Tour.
- [29:43]
Johan Berniel
I don't know. Probably not. Probably not.
- [29:49]
Spencer Martin
There's also, we, we just a lot.
- [29:51]
Johan Berniel
Younger, so, you know, it's. It's not because Rodriguez has had a bad season that he cannot do it again. You know, he's definitely capable of being in the shape again. When he was. When he was fifth. He was fifth?
- [30:03]
Spencer Martin
No, he was fifth. Yeah, he's very good. We also glossed over Kevin Bucklawn, who got seventh the Tour last year.
- [30:10]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Spencer Martin
So. But even that, like, that's an exciting writer.
- [30:13]
Johan Berniel
No, but, but listen, Bernal is better than Vogelin, man.
- [30:16]
Spencer Martin
I, I don't know.
- [30:18]
Johan Berniel
Like he said, he's. Yeah, I think so.
- [30:21]
Spencer Martin
Bernal is a. Let's. What did he get at the wealth last year? 17th, seventh at the zero. Seven at the zero. Well, I mean, Bernard got seven at the zero. Baklan got seventh at the tour.
- [30:34]
Johan Berniel
Okay.
- [30:35]
Spencer Martin
Probably seventh.
- [30:36]
Johan Berniel
You know, same thing with vocal lines. Also younger, so definitely more. More room for improvement. But I think Bernal is. They definitely keep him on the team and he's going to be on a really good contract out of respect for the rider he has been and out of the personality he is. Yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's a, he's a, a demigod in, in Colombia.
- [31:06]
Spencer Martin
Do you almost not even have him? What's his worth as a stage racer versus winning stages? He's actually a surprisingly good one day racer too. He's pretty good at. To get top 10 at a money.
- [31:19]
Johan Berniel
Listen, he knows how to race. He knows how to win races. You know, he's a. He knows how to, he's. To win a race, first of all, you have to be in front. Then you have to have that instinct to finish the job. And there's a lot of riders who are incredibly good and they don't know how to win a race.
- [31:35]
Spencer Martin
They just don't have a lot of riders like that. Yeah.
- [31:38]
Johan Berniel
To win. You know, this, this winning, you know, smell, smell the moment of. Okay, this is it. You know, Bernal does have that instinct.
- [31:48]
Spencer Martin
He remember he was at the front of Classic High End and then crashed. Broke his collarbone just last year. Like that's not an easy race to be at the front of. I also accidentally cut in front of him to make a coffee and he didn't say anything. So right there past the nice guy test. Gotta keep him on the team just because of that. Um, but Johan, let's take a quick break and then we're going to talk about if, if, if the season's already over for Visma. If they should just pack it up. It's not working out, but we'll. We'll be right back, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Every group has someone who insists on doing things the hard way. I used to be the person in my group, especially when it came to overpaying for wireless. Then I switched to Mint Mobile and I'm so glad I did. It was incredibly easy to switch and I'm paying far less for a far better service. This is a true story. I was out with my kids at a dinner by myself with two kids. Oh no, what am I going to do? Oh, they're watching stuff on my phone. But it won't work. It's clunky. I said, I've had enough. So I signed up for Mint Mobile right there. Just download the app. You can sign up incredibly easy. I switched right there in the restaurant. They're streaming. They're happy. Don't tell their mom this and it's only because of Mint Mobile. And for a limited time you can have this too. You can get 50% off 3, 6 or 12 month plans of unlimited Premium Wireless. You can get to bring your own phone and number and activate it with an ESIM within minutes as I can vouch for and start saving immediately. No long term contracts, no hassle. With a seven day money back guarantee and customer satisfaction ratings in the mid-90s, Mint makes it easy to try it and see why people don't go back. So are you ready to stop paying more than you have to? New customers can make the switch today. For a limited time, get Unlimited Premium wireless for just $15 per month. Switch now@mintmobile.com the move that's mint mobile.com the move upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months and $180 for 12 month plan required taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only over 50 gigs may slow when the network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. Additional terms apply. See mint mobile.com for details. Everybody this episode is brought to you by hims. You've got places to be in Sitting in a waiting room waiting for hairless treatment certainly isn't one of them. HIMS makes expert care accessible on your schedule so you can skip the line and focus on feeling like yourself again. HIMSS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. HIMS can help since Dr. Trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. And HIMS thinks you shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself, which is why they bring expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that put put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule. Think of HIMS as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self with simple 100 online access to trusted treatments for real health concerns all in one place. So for simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit hims.com the Move that's hims.com the Move for your free online visit h I m s.com the Move. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details. Restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Okay, Johan, before we get into our question of the visma troubles, did you notice final stage of Valenciana Mobestar wins. Did you also Raul Garcia?
- [35:37]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean, he was the strongest by far in that breakaway. It's a really strong rider also, you know, first years on. First year on Movistar comes from Arkea. Did already a really. A few really good races. Was, I think a few years ago he was Spanish champion time trial.
- [36:00]
Spencer Martin
He is, yeah. 2022.
- [36:02]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, he's from Madrid, you know, so I know because my son does a lot of segments and Raul has a lot of the koms, you know, so my son Christian is always trying to get, you know, not obviously not close, but, you know, that's his. That's his benchmark, right? The kom guy here. I mean, as a brother. He has a brother who actually has a few koms.
- [36:28]
Spencer Martin
Also.
- [36:30]
Johan Berniel
Carlos. Carlos Garcia.
- [36:31]
Spencer Martin
To be able to win a national championship time trial, but then fast enough to finish off a race like that.
- [36:37]
Johan Berniel
Pretty good guy knows how to race. Yeah. The way he won, the way he won that stage was pure, like textbook, you know, like waited when he had to wait. Whenever there was somebody going, was it it was this German guy. No, Emil. Who was, I think, World Champion Juniors. Was it juniors? Yeah, World Champion Juniors. I think in. In Australia when Remco won as a younger brother, who was this? One of the strongest juniors last season, by the way. But. But yeah, I mean, he, he. Whenever that guy moved, he was there, you know.
- [37:23]
Spencer Martin
How do you remember the 2022 Junior World Championship? Am I right? You're right.
- [37:29]
Johan Berniel
How did you remember I even know who was second? Antonio Morgado.
- [37:33]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, that's right. Do you know who was fourth? Oof.
- [37:42]
Johan Berniel
No.
- [37:42]
Spencer Martin
Paul Monier.
- [37:44]
Johan Berniel
Paul Manier. Wow.
- [37:45]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. It's actually. If you want to lose an afternoon, go look at old Junior World Championship results, you'll just. It's super interesting to look at, but third was Vlad Van Mechlin.
- [37:55]
Johan Berniel
Van Mechelin, who is now a professional on Bahrain.
- [37:58]
Spencer Martin
Bahrain. Yeah. Yeah. Is that.
- [38:01]
Johan Berniel
This a Belgian guy? His dad is the. Runs the development team of Bahrain out of Belgium. It's called Cannibal Bahrain.
- [38:11]
Spencer Martin
Okay. Yeah.
- [38:12]
Johan Berniel
Annibal Victorious.
- [38:13]
Spencer Martin
It's called. Yeah, yeah. But you know the last time Movistar won a pro race before that. It's been a minute. It was the Dauphine June. Wow. Of last year.
- [38:26]
Johan Berniel
Was it the young guy who's the Spanish Champion Who's.
- [38:31]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, like they're, they're, they're good writer. It is his name we can't remember.
- [38:36]
Johan Berniel
I know he's. I know he's the boyfriend of Kate. Kate Ferguson.
- [38:41]
Spencer Martin
I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, it's Ivan. Well, Ivan Romeo. Yeah.
- [38:47]
Johan Berniel
World champion under 23 time trial in. In Switzerland.
- [38:51]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. And then they also have not to be confused with Javier Romo, who also won a pro race world Tour race last year.
- [38:58]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been since the Dauphine. Wow. That's. Wow. Yeah, yeah. But really, really good win of Raul Garcia. Very nice.
- [39:08]
Spencer Martin
And so our big debate. I'm going to make the case for why Visma Lisa Bike and Jonas Van Der Garde are doomed already. Obviously I'm doing this a little tongue in cheek, but actually we kind of glossed over it last week and I went back and look marked everything up and it's not going well so far and I have concerns. So let's, let's. The first thing that happened, Wout Vanart crashed, broke his ankle in a cyclocross race. He actually seems to be recovering well. It might not be a big issue, but maybe won't be at full strength for the classics. When he's going up against two of the best of all time, that's not great. Then Simon Yates, one of their key GC leaders and domestiques in the mountains for Grand Tours, retires out of the blue. That's not great. And then Jonas Finnegaard crashes on a descent, hurts himself to enough that he pulls out of the UA Tour. How hurt is he? We don't really know. Is he sick? What's really going on with the U like that? Seems like we're still not at the UA Tour, so it seems like if he's healthy, he could race it. I don't quite understand that decision. And then we find out this week his coach, Tim. What's, what's his last name?
- [40:17]
Johan Berniel
Him.
- [40:18]
Spencer Martin
Skark.
- [40:19]
Goldbelly Advertiser
Him Skirk.
- [40:21]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:21]
Spencer Martin
He's employed by Vis Melissa Bike, but he is the personal coach of Jonas Finnegaard leaves the team and Matteo Jurgensen, Emmett Jorgensen. And the way this works, the team usually has coaches and each coach has like a bundle of riders.
- [40:36]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [40:36]
Spencer Martin
And most teams, including Bees Maliza Bike have policies that you can't have an outside coach. So if he leaves, he can't continue coaching Jonas. Jonas has to have a new team issued coach. Now. The reasons were a little, frankly, strange. This is not how I would have written the press release. His quote was over the past period, I've noticed I was struggling to continue applying my creativity and passion, which are important to me in my work as a coach. This is a moment for me to be honest with myself and the team. I look back with pride on the growth of the team, myself and the riders, including, of course, Jonas. In the coming period, I will take some time to myself and reflect on my future. And he mentions Jonas. There he has coach Jonas to two Tour de France victories, a Volta victory and three Tour runner ups, if I'm counting right in my head, pretty successful tenure. And he's gone at a really inopportune time of the year. And this means, along with Jonas's injury, his schedule going into the Giro d' Italia is he is now racing Volta Catalunya and then going straight to the zero to tell you, I went back. I could not find a single rider with fewer race days before winning the Giro. In the history of the Giro, the closest rider was Tadpagat, 2024, who did one stage race, Catalunya. But he also raised two monuments, San Remo and Liege Baston Liege plus Strada Bianchi before that, Giro. So there is a slight precedent, but this is not. This, to me, is a very blunted spring with a lot of disruption for Jonas Vinegaard. What do you think about it?
- [42:11]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean, listen, it's.
- [42:13]
Spencer Martin
It's.
- [42:14]
Johan Berniel
The two things that really stick out for me is, first of all, I mean, we've talked about it already a few weeks ago is the sudden announcement of the retirement of Simon Yates. That was strange. You know, he must have his personal reasons. And now at the beginning of the season, a trainer or. I mean, one of the key coaches who leaves the team. I mean, that press release reads a bit strange. I would say we don't know. I absolutely. I have no information what's happening or what's going on. But it's strange. It's strange. You know, I can't. What did he say? Can't get my creativity and my passion across or something like that.
- [42:58]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Struggling to apply his creativity and passion, which for a team, that the knock on the team is that it's no fun to be there. I don't know why they would.
- [43:07]
Johan Berniel
Well, not fun to be there. I think that's relative. That's relative, Spencer. But obviously, listen, they have their system and we don't know them. To me, it smells like there's been a conflict. There's been a conflict between the head management and the coach or the head of performance, who is what's his name?
- [43:30]
Spencer Martin
This. This. At this rate he's climbing the ranks, it could be Patrick Rowe. Well, who is the head? Hold on, I'm gonna look this up.
- [43:42]
Johan Berniel
Anyways, I don't know where the conflict has been. There's a conflict between this, this coach and one of his. Either the head, the general manager, Richard Plugger, or the head of performance. Okay, listen, it's not the end of the world at this point. Also, Spencer, the coach is there for Jonas, for example, a rider who has already many years of experience. He's there to accompany him and somebody that the cyclist, in this case Jonas and Matteo, they are accountable to. Right. He's not going to tell them or teach them any more secrets. They already know what they have to do. And any other coach will come in and they. They obviously share information on the team. So it's not going to change that much. Is, you know, the only thing that could change is the way that the person who will now be in charge of those riders who are left behind from. I mean, who are left without a coach, they're going to be a new coach. The only difference will be that the interpretation of the performances is different. That's all that's is they know what they have to do. And whatever this coach was planning for his writers is shared with the other coaches. So I don't see it as a big, big problem.
- [45:08]
Spencer Martin
You are correct that there's not so math Matthew Highborn. And you're right that there's no material information lost with this. Like, it's just the. In the coaches, it's more of a personal. You're almost a therapist for the writers. So it's like on a personal level, maybe it affects Jonas, maybe not, but.
- [45:27]
Johan Berniel
You know, a coach you have confidence in and you have been working, it's. It's somebody who listens, who knows how to, you know, pick up certain signs. You know, okay, this is a bit off, but usually it's. It's a constant communication between the rider and the coach and, you know, an exchange of information. And based on that, plans are often modified or adapted, whatever. I don't know, is it. Was he not able to adapt or was he not allowed to adapt the plans of a certain writers? Maybe, you know, if a writer has a program already set out from the beginning of the season and the coach sees certain things in a rider he's coaching and say, oh, you know what, maybe he should start earlier, you know, because he needs some more racing, or he should probably take some time off that still Needs to be validated by this. The management, the head of performance, the head of the DSS and the general manager. Ultimately, maybe that's where there was a conflict. I don't know. I'm just guessing out loud, but something must have been going on there.
- [46:33]
Spencer Martin
The bigger concern for me is, I think you're right, there probably was some conflict. This combined with, you know, Moraine Zaman stepping away, was that a year and a half ago at this point, just. And then with the Simon Yates. These are odd. Oddly timed. The Marine Zeman one wasn't weird. That was really well handled. It was at the end of the year. Made sense. Good press release. The Yates departure in this. So you could not come up with worse timing for it. And yeah, it just makes you wonder.
- [47:01]
Johan Berniel
Yates, I think. I think with the. In the Yates situation, I think the team was also in the dark. I think Simon Yates was, if I'm not mistaken, he did one training camp, right? And after that training camp, he said, you know what? I've now won the Vuelta, I've won the Giro, I'm never going to win the Tour. You know, I've made my career, I earned good money, that this is it, you know, I don't want to do this. Another year, another two years, he. He walks away from a big contract, man. I mean, it's like Simon Yates didn't go to Visma for peanuts. You know, he was maybe making more at. Probably making more at Jacob, but not.
- [47:44]
Spencer Martin
Definitely was not making peanuts.
- [47:46]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, he's not making him a lot less. So, no, it must be something personal. Let's say. Let's say, hey, you know what? I'm. This is it, you know, I'm done. And the team didn't know. The team didn't know.
- [47:59]
Spencer Martin
What do you think about this build up to the Giro? You were saying offline that you don't think this is a problem, this super blunted preparation with the one stage race going into the Giro?
- [48:09]
Johan Berniel
No, I don't think so, Spencer. Let's go back to two years ago when Jonas crashed in the bus country, didn't do any races and showed up at the Tour de France in amazing, amazing condition. I think this fits perfectly into. Jonas is obviously a rider from a distance. I have the impression he's a guy who can. Who's able to prepare himself with specific training. Listen, if you're going to go full gas for the Giro and then want to be the best possible you can at the Tour de France, this is the way to do it. Altitude camps. His wife is not going to be very happy. And then, you know, one race, get into the Giro. Probably not 100%, but good enough to not lose time and be at your best in the last week. The Giro's always decided in the last week, typically. And then, you know, have enough left in the tank for the Tour de France. I don't dislike it.
- [49:14]
Spencer Martin
Well, I mean, they're definitely. If you don't dislike it, I mean, you're obviously, you have a authority on this, so you should be the one people listen to. And the other big clue should be. Pagacho did one stage race before he went to the zero and did the same stage race, ended pretty well in 2024. So I did think, ooh, that's gonna be. There's gonna be some altitude camps in there. The projects around the house are not going to be getting done. Could be lagging.
- [49:41]
Johan Berniel
This is going to be a kitchen.
- [49:43]
Spencer Martin
The kitchen is already done. There was. I think it was like Bradley Wiggins was like, you know, there is an argument to be made that if you're making that much money to ride your bike, you probably should be at a training camp.
- [49:57]
Johan Berniel
That.
- [49:57]
Spencer Martin
That's not an unreasonable ask. And the more I think about that, the weirder. I still can't believe that happened, but.
- [50:03]
Johan Berniel
Oh, you actually should want to be at a training camp.
- [50:08]
Spencer Martin
You know, why was that an issue? Yeah, in the first week, really weird.
- [50:14]
Johan Berniel
Really, really bad timed interview.
- [50:16]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [50:17]
Johan Berniel
But you.
- [50:17]
Spencer Martin
I mean, you could be on to something here that they just do Catalonia training, altitude camps. No problem.
- [50:25]
Johan Berniel
Let's not forget he was. He was planned to do UAE Tour. That was the plan.
- [50:30]
Spencer Martin
I don't. I still don't understand the now not doing UA Tour unless he's more injured than we think from the crash.
- [50:40]
Johan Berniel
The thing is, Spencer, we've said it already many times, you know, like, these guys, these top guys, the races they go to, they only go to the races they want to win, and they think they can win if. Now, Jonas has been derailed a little bit in his preparation with the crash. Maybe he's been sick. We don't know. The thing about Visma is that, you know, they're not the strongest in communicating what's happening with the writers. I mean, it's their right, you know, I mean, it's. It's their. It's their right to. They don't have to. They have no obligation to let anybody know what's happening with writers or with programs or. It's. It's. You know, you can do what you have, whatever you want, but we, the fans and the media, it opens more doors for speculation. Right. Why are, why are. And if something happens and there's no explanation in today's world, then, you know, social media goes crazy.
- [51:39]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, but they seem to be really.
- [51:43]
Johan Berniel
Good at distancing themselves from that and just keep focusing on their objectives. Listen, it's not a great start for Visma, but for the moment, I'm not worried. I'm not worried. I'm a lot less worried than you are.
- [51:57]
Spencer Martin
What's funny is I'm often pretty critical of their communication and their questioning, their preparation, but if you really look at the stats, they just show up. Think of 2024. Like, not a lot of communication about. Jonas shows up to the tour in pretty good shape, so it often works out for the best for them. Just sometimes I wonder about their communication and yeah, maybe, maybe this won't be a problem at all. It is just a lot going on this early in the season. Let's take another quick break and we're going to talk about another team having a hard time and then who we're going to. Who's going to play you in the Lance Armstrong movie that was just announced. We'll be right back, everybody. This episode is brought to you by a Ray Hair. You know the moment when you notice your first gray hair? I remember seeing that actually quite a while ago and thinking, all right, here we go. It's not just the color. They feel different, coarser, wiry. They stick up straight like they're announcing themselves. Makes it harder to style your hair like you used to do when you're younger. And I'm not against aging. Anyone who can see me knows I'm not against aging. But I wasn't ready to surrender my hair color either. That's why I started using array. And what I like about array is they don't promise to magically just stop the gray hair. They focus on slowing it down and helping you keep your natural color longer. So when people see you after maybe your 10, 20 year reunion, they're not like, oh my Lord, what has happened to you? How did you turn into an old man? It slows it and lets you age gracefully. That's why I've been using their shampoo conditioner shower duo product. This skincare grade shampoo and conditioner duo, I got it right here. Sleek little bottles. They look good in the bathroom and they preserve pigment while gently cleansing, hydrating and reducing breakage. They also have the system which includes their daily supplement not gray today and their serum to the Root and after a few months I have noticed that the gray is slowing slightly and my hair feels thicker and healthier overall. So most of us invest in skin care. Just, you know, people listen to the show, you know that to slow signs of aging on our face. This is the same idea but for your hair. If you want to slow the growth of grays and keep your natural color longer, head to array.com and use code themove at checkout for 15 off. That's a R E-Y.com and use code the move at checkout again array.com the move. Okay, Johan, before we get into who's going to play you and then just announced Lance Armstrong movie directed by Ed Berger and written by Zach Balin with Oscar nominated actor Austin Butler in the lead role. The titular role of Lance Armstrong. Pretty strong crew there. Let's talk about suit all. Quick step, really quick. 14, you were saying before we recorded they have 14 injured riders currently. Presumably they have some non injured riders on their team. But we said it at the top of the show, we said, oh, how you're doing now sets the tone for the rest of the year. I assume that works both ways. If you, if you start off on a bad foot, it can be tough to come back from it.
- [55:02]
Johan Berniel
Man, I, when I saw that list, I just saw it on social media.
- [55:05]
Spencer Martin
Unbelievable.
- [55:06]
Johan Berniel
14 injured riders, that's. Wow. You have 16 left. And you know, usually what happens is that the beginning of the season is usually very heavy because you know, lots of races, everybody wants the race so that they're, they have double programs all the time and sometimes triple programs. So yeah, if you have only 16 riders left, that's going to be a problem. Now we don't know if all those riders are now inactive or some have been, some are sick. I mean some of them have fractures so they're out. Right. That's not good. So yeah, I mean that's definitely not.
- [55:57]
Spencer Martin
A great situation to be like Lawrence Rex. Is that his first name? Yeah, like he's one of the, he's one of their top Monday writers and he is a, he's a fracture. So presumably he won't be in the classics.
- [56:08]
Johan Berniel
Well, he was in that horror crash in, in Alula Tour going, you know.
- [56:15]
Spencer Martin
Crash? Yes. Super high speed crash. Yeah, yeah, man, that was not good. Yeah. I mean he got, he got 8th at Bruges de Pana last year, 10th at Paris Roubaix and that's a key rider that they don't have. He was on Inter Marche. Yeah, he's a new Signing. That's not great. Tim, earlier, you don't like to see this. Knee issues. That's never good. Yeah, and that's a key, key, key writer for them. Like, they're almost Their whole team centers off of him. So this. It's going to be tough to come back from that. I don't know. We have no notes on how to prevent this. It's just, I guess, unfortunate things on. It's an unfortunate byproduct of starting the season. Also, maybe we didn't mention on the recording, but you'll notice. Where are all the big stars? Well, Remcovina pulls out there racing. Mads Pedersen tried, got hurt. None of the other big stars have raced yet. This is maybe partly why. To limit the chances of crashes, I guess.
- [57:15]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the. The, you know, all the. I mean, the. If you call it the six. The six big names that say you have Pogacha, Jonas, Remco, Matthew Vanderpool. Waut. I still count him as one of the big names. And who else do we have left?
- [57:36]
Spencer Martin
You used. We used to count Primos, but he's now the forgotten man.
- [57:41]
Johan Berniel
Wow. You just.
- [57:42]
Spencer Martin
Isn't that crazy.
- [57:43]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. Wow.
- [57:44]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [57:46]
Johan Berniel
He's been quiet. He's been quiet.
- [57:48]
Spencer Martin
He's been very quiet.
- [57:49]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [57:50]
Spencer Martin
Very quiet, too quiet.
- [57:51]
Johan Berniel
Be surprised if all of a sudden he shows up and just, you know, like, pulls one out of the. Out of the bag, you know?
- [57:57]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, me. Me too. Anytime you don't hear from Primos, you should be expecting big things.
- [58:02]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, they all chose to. I mean, it's only Remco who has started the season for the moment. I mean, soon it's going to change. Right. Although, I mean, now with Jonas delaying his start, Poacher not starting the first race is Strada Bianca, right? Yeah.
- [58:25]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [58:25]
Johan Berniel
That's still almost a month.
- [58:28]
Spencer Martin
What about Vanderpoel?
- [58:30]
Johan Berniel
Vanderpool? Yeah. I mean, he plays it by ear, man.
- [58:35]
Spencer Martin
There's no races listed on his program.
- [58:38]
Johan Berniel
I think, was it last year or two years ago, all of a sudden, like three, four days before the. The. This race in Belgium Grand Prix? I mean, say, yeah, you know, I'll start, and then she just shows up and wins, you know, so it's going to be the same. I heard somewhere or read somewhere that he might actually start at Newsblood as his first race. That would be cool.
- [59:00]
Spencer Martin
That would be cool. Very cool. That would be. Give us some spice to the early season. The Lance movie. It's. It's kind of Funny because we've known about it for a while and then now it's in public and it's a big deal. Obviously it is a big deal because those are big actors, big personality being portrayed. Big story, I'm sure. Big director, great writer as well, super nice guy. And obviously Austin Butler is a very popular actor at the moment. Moment too. Oh, Austin Butler.
- [59:34]
Johan Berniel
Just to confirm, Austin Butler is going to portray Lance in the movie Lance and that.
- [59:38]
Spencer Martin
But that's all we know in terms of actors so far that Austin Butler is portraying Lance. We don't know any other actors. Who do you want to portray you, Johan?
- [59:47]
Johan Berniel
I don't know, man. I haven't. I even thought about it. It's. I mean, I have no say in it anyway, so I, I don't know. All I know is that George Clooney. No, no, no, no. All I know is that the movie is going to be the story from. Told from another perspective. And because, you know, there's been a lot of writing, documentaries, whatever in documentaries, so called documentaries. Then this movie there that Walsh made based on his book, you know, most of them, I haven't watched them, but I do know, I do know that there's a lot of facts and events that haven't been told or they have been told, but not in the right.
- [60:39]
Spencer Martin
Way.
- [60:41]
Johan Berniel
You know, So I think this is, I'm excited for this, man. It's. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a really, really big, big production. And yeah, I mean, then afterwards people can think what they want, right? But that say from our side, we've never been able to tell our story. And it's not that it's going to be all. I mean, obviously Lance is involved in the project, but it's going to be, you know, the good, the bad and the ugly, don't get me wrong. And so should it be, you know, but at least I think with some nuances which I think or necessary to really give the people because, you know, and I see this every day. I mean, I've never seen it in person, but if I think about myself, for example, you know, I've also been portrayed by this famous USADA report. The reason I call it the Unreasoned Decision, it was more written like a novel or like a sensational report. Then this was not an objective report. You know, I've been portrayed as a really like the devil. And I know I'm not, first of all. And I know when. Anyways, whatever people think there's, there's a. There's A small minority who keep thinking that I've struggled with that for. For a while, for example.
- [62:07]
Spencer Martin
But.
- [62:07]
Johan Berniel
But, you know, I've turned that page. And as long as I know that the people who know me and who are around me and who I care for and who care about me know who I am and how I am, that's usually the way it is. And with Lance is the same thing. So obviously the haters are not going to like the movie. Right. We already know that on beforehand, but that's not the point. I'm. I'm excited about this. I'm really excited about it and I think it's going to be really good. But I don't know who's gonna. I don't know who's gonna portray me. I don't. I have no idea.
- [62:42]
Spencer Martin
Johan Bernil confirmed. Not the devil. I can vouch. I would say that's a fair representation. It's kind of funny you mentioned that. Like before I met either you were Lance. I was like, man, these guys are going to be jerks. Like based on, you know, just based on the reason decision. Yeah.
- [62:58]
Johan Berniel
No. Yeah.
- [62:58]
Spencer Martin
Not. Not true. More nuance in real life. Who knew? I will say probably the template would be Wolf of Wall Street. Jordan Belfort, polarizing character. But the stories told from his perspective and you just add nuance by doing that. I think you could walk away from that movie thinking many things about Jordan Belfort, but you have a clear picture of his life. I would assume that's the same thing they're going to try to do. I think something people don't fully realize is how young you guys were when this happened. Like I was hearing the Lantern Rouge podcast talk about the casting. I don't think they understand unless my calculations are wrong. You were 41 years old in the last Lance Tour de France. Wayne. Is that right?
- [63:40]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I was 34 when I. When, When. When my first year director Wonder Boy.
- [63:47]
Spencer Martin
That is crazy.
- [63:50]
Johan Berniel
That's unbelievable. I also listened to that. To that part because it had been pointed out to me that they had been debating in the long term Rules podcast. I think they're a bit off topic. They're. They, they were. They've. They've been naming names, characters who they think are way too important in the big picture of our story. But we'll. We'll leave that for later.
- [64:16]
Spencer Martin
And probably true. No comment. I would also say they're way off. I think they're just miss. They're miscalculating the ages, like of how old everybody is. Like George Hincapi they were like, oh, George Clooney's gonna play George Hincappy. Yeah, George older than George Hobby, currently.
- [64:37]
Johan Berniel
Special effects.
- [64:40]
Spencer Martin
I would love to see like Clooney from Ocean's Eleven. Just the smoothest character ever playing George Hppy. That would be unbelievable. And I, I am actually quite curious to see who's going to play you guys. I think it's going to be people we don't know because we don't know that many actors that age. You know, I think it's gonna be cool to see who, who they unearth also. It's why actors are actors and we're not. They can pick someone that doesn't necessarily like. They don't have to look like someone and they just become them. It's. It's super impressive. Sure.
- [65:11]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [65:13]
Spencer Martin
And the guy who played you in the program, Pretty good shout out him.
- [65:16]
Johan Berniel
Oh, that's actually funny. I mean, I have a funny story about this, about that Spencer. Because, you know, that's a whole different movie. But I think it's, I think probably more than 10 years ago now. Yeah, it's definitely more because I was still living in London. So this, this, this person who was portraying me, French actor called Denim Menoche who's also with also a role in Glorious Basterds, for example. And yeah, he actually contacted me before they started shooting and he wanted to have a meeting with me because he says, you know, I usually do this. I want to really get into the personality. So we, we made an appointment we. That we were going to have a meeting and he was actually. Two days before the meeting was. And this was him personally reaching out to me. And, and the, the whole crew or the production team didn't know anything about this. And two days before the meeting, he messaged me, he said, hey, we can't meet because they found out and I'm not allowed to meet with you. Which he was really pissed off. And then afterwards I spoke to him after the movie, after the movie came out already and he told me that he had refused to watch the movie. He was not. He didn't agree with the script because he had done his own research. Right. And he didn't agree with the script. He just played his professional role. But he did, he refused to watch the movie. Coincidentally. Same. Exactly the same thing happened with Ben Foster, who portrayed Lance.
- [67:03]
Spencer Martin
Interesting.
- [67:04]
Johan Berniel
He did not. Ben Foster hasn't, Didn't want. I mean, maybe he watched it later, but straight after when it came out, didn't want to watch the movie.
- [67:12]
Spencer Martin
The guy did for not meeting with you did a pretty good job of. It's pretty weird. It's weird to watch it. He's that good. And another actor that I don't think was that big at the time but is big now is Jesse Plemons played Floyd Landis and pretty, pretty good in his. I, I mean he kind of looks like him I guess which helps but yeah, like that looking back, like that's quite a stroke of luck for the production to get Jesse.
- [67:39]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I mean one thing is, you know, find, find, look. But you know, Spencer, with all due respect and I'm and again I'm allowed to say it. If the movie is shit and that movie was shit, it's not going to be a good movie. You know, it's been, I mean it was a failure and you know it was based on, on a completely David Walsh's story. It was him one sided and it was, it was a shit movie. So this one's going to be much better. Much better.
- [68:11]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. I mean it's hard too to, if you think about the premise of that movie to like Lance is the center point of the movie. But then there's nothing from his perspective really. Which is gonna be a tough assignment to make a good movie that way. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see who plays you. Can't wait.
- [68:34]
Johan Berniel
When I find out, I'll tell you.
- [68:36]
Spencer Martin
Are you guys going to be like I hadn't really thought about this like at a movie premiere.
- [68:41]
Johan Berniel
I have no idea. I have, you know, I know I know very little about it, Spencer. I mean I spoke to Lance a bit about it but I have no details.
- [68:49]
Spencer Martin
So I don't know and I don't know if we said it but the director Ed Berger just directed Conclave which was a massive movie but he also did a show, a German show called Deutschland 83. This is a long time ago, like 10 years ago. Very good show. Highly recommend watching that. Great director.
- [69:08]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [69:09]
Spencer Martin
Anything else Johan? And we have, we should update people. We have racing coming up. We've been talking, I feel like we've been talking about the UA Tour for four weeks at this point. We've Tour de la Provence over the weekend and then UAE tour starts on Monday. The RIMCO having a Pole Isaac del Toro showdown with Adam. Yes, also there. So. And then it gets busy. It's UA Tour out and then in the middle of the UA Tour Algarve and Andalusia start. They all finish on the same day, Sunday the 22nd. And then we'll have a show wrapping that all up on the 23rd, but we'll talk next at the end of next week. And we'll be in the middle of the UA tour, so we'll have Grayson to talk about then.
- [69:48]
Johan Berniel
Okay. Thanks, Spencer. Speak soon.
- [69:50]
Spencer Martin
Thanks.
- [69:51]
Johan Berniel
Bye. Hey, guys.
- [69:59]
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