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- [00:01]
Spencer Martin
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- [01:21]
George H
They took the race. The bull by the horn, so to speak. And they did a job. And Vanderpoel was there right at the end. I had a bad moment on the Pogio. Still ended up 8th place but also came back from a crash which is such a hard thing to do. I mean, yes, poker chart made it look easy. Vhart made it look easy. But I just, I as, as somebody who's done the race so many times, I just, I'm, I'm so in awe and so much respect to what these guys are doing right now.
- [01:55]
Spencer Martin
Everybody, welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with George H. For a very special post race edition of Milan San Remo. Tata Pagacha just won his first career edition of the race after a crash right before the Chapressa. All the plans is ua plans up in smoke. Came back. One of the most impressive victories we've ever seen from him and personally I've ever seen from anyone. It's the worst monument for him. He. He crashes and still makes it happen. Beats Tom pidcock in a 2 up sprint finish. Thrilling sprint finish on the video Roma in San Ramo with wild Ben Aert coming in four seconds later for third. Mads Pedersen fourth with a super impressive Fourth place come back after breaking his wrist and collarbone and different arms. Corbin strong fifth. Matthew Vanderpoel went with the group. The Pagachar Pitcot group was dropped on the Poggio lot to cover here. George. This is like the, the parents are out of town and the teenagers are left at home for the weekend. Johan Berniel, he's, he's tied up at a bike race currently. Lance Armstrong's on spring break. It's just us holding down the fort. But what did you think of this fantastic win from Pagachar?
- [03:02]
George H
Well it's kind of funny because Johan texted me like typical Spanish style, like 12:30 at night saying hey, I'm middle of nowhere Spain and I don't think I have wi fi. Can you cover? I'm like. Because he's, he's at his son's race and I'm like well I'm in the same predicament, I'm in Belgium. But fortunately we have a lot better wi fi Watching my son race his race here in, in near, near Bruges. But yeah, kind of funny like we're all over the place but we still get it done. And I got to watch the race and one actually super exciting race, I mean that's one of the most exciting Milan San Remo's that we've seen in a long time. And I know we're going to break it down but I, I mean cycling just continues to surprise me. Everything that we've been seeing as of late is just incredible what these guys are doing and super fun to watch for sure.
- [03:52]
Spencer Martin
Well you, you won this race with the team. So in 2009 you were on HGC Columbia, you, your teammate Mark Cavendish wins and in what I thought then was the most thrilling finish of San Rao had ever seen, you'd then say maybe the Kia Koski was. What was that? It was the 3 up sprint with Sagan Koski and Al Philippe that was incredible. This might have topped it but it is wild to think Mark Cavendish got over those climbs when you did you look at these climbing times today on the Tripressa I, I clocked it at 8:40 which is almost 20 seconds faster than last year which was the record of 859. And then the Poggio was 5:42 which was significantly faster than last year. These climbs just get faster and faster every year. But Pagachos had to change the race in order to win it because this was a sprinters classic. Let lest we forget just a few like a decade ago it was considered the classic for the sprinters now we have the world's best climber winning it. It is incredible. I mean, I. Who did you think was going to win when they came down for that two up sprint? I thought for sure Pitcock had it and was going to take the biggest win of his career and kind of validate, you know, he's 12 Olympic mountain bike champs. That's incredible. But there's just like, he's paid a lot of money. One of the highest paid riders in the sport. A lot of turbulence around his, you know, his team change last year goes over to the small Q36.5 team. I, I think I said out loud, like, man, it's sunny day in Italy. He's on a Pinarello on his own team. Like, life's pretty good for Pitcock. And then I thought for sure he was going to win that two up sprint. But what were you thinking when they came into the final few hundred meters?
- [05:30]
George H
Yeah, I, I actually, I was sitting with a buddy of mine at a cafe here in Rouge, and I said, pitcot's got it. I mean, he was riding super smart. He missed a couple pulls leading into the Pogio, you know, and of course he pulled through on descent, which you're not really spending much energy, but for sure, I thought he had it. But going back, 30k to go. I actually said I need to retire from the podcasting business because I don't know if I've ever. If we have ever witnessed somebody crashing with 30 kilometers to go, not only one guy, but, like two guys in the top three were 45 seconds behind before the start of the poo. Or it's suppresso. Sorry.
- [06:09]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [06:09]
George H
They somehow managed to claw their way back. I don't remember ever seeing that. And I'm not as, like, astute in cycling history as you are, Spencer, but if you can remind me of somebody crashing 30 kilometers to go in Milan, Mimo. And still winning, please remind me, because I don't think we've ever seen anything like that before.
- [06:27]
Spencer Martin
Well, we used to. I, I can't think of it either, Georgia. We used to see if you crashed. It's the fastest part of the race. It's a mad dash to the Tripressa. It used to be game over, right? You have a little problem positioned wrong, you're done. These guys are standing on the side of the road waiting for new bikes.
- [06:44]
George H
You're done. I mean, as a, as a fan, now as a spectator watching the race, you don't quite get to appreciate how hard they're Going up the Capa Mello, the Capa Melli, the Capo Bear date. Like, they're going as hard as you can possibly imagine in a group of 100 guys. Like, you're doing more watts than you ever can you can imagine doing. And then you descend down the cabin. Melli, you're heading down to this press out where it kind of narrows down. Everybody wants to be the front. And then Poker Charles on the ground. For me, the race was over. Like, Poker Charge is not winning this race at 30k to go. Based on my experience, there's no way I can physically imagine somebody coming back from that. And then you see. You see him claw on his way back. Brendan McDougal, VIP of the race, in my opinion, bringing them back, getting into the front of the press, up, setting the pace. I mean, it was like the most exciting San Remo that I've seen in a long time. And I just. I just don't know how these guys do it. I cannot sit here as a expert podcaster and tell you how they did it. It was super incredible to watch and witness what they did today.
- [07:51]
Spencer Martin
You know, it's really weird. Is the last we've seen the last two years that they are. They're a yard sale on the Chapressa. Ua can't get it right. You know, they just. They're never positioned correctly. Pagat left alone at the front. It's almost like the scratch helped them because they're coming from behind. Del Toro key does not sit up. He stays at the front. He struggles with positioning more than anyone in, like, the elite group of that team, which means he's already at the front. When Pagatric gets up there, he doesn't have to fight for position as much. And the pace kind of came off. They were helped by that. Ineos and Jayco were at the front. Like, ah, what are we supposed to do here? We were waiting for UAE to attack. Now no one's attacking. Pagatra zooms up the side and he's. Yeah, with McNulty was key because McNulty's with them. They get. They're moving up so fast. They hit right at the chapresso, like, right where they want to be, at the front with Brandon McNulty, one of the strongest guys, unbelievably strong with him leading. He's not even the last lead out because then they have Del Toro there who comes in. It is almost like it worked better for them the last few years because of the crash because it shuffled the deck. Let them Move up at their own pace versus trying to fight for position at the front. It sounds weird because you think chasing would be worse, but they, they came into that climb with so much speed versus the blob at the front, it looked like it was stressful to even look at. And it looked like they were almost going slower versus the group at the back. And when I, I said that the time on the pressa I clock put God chart that because he went in slightly later. But just to, to back people up. I said it in my preview. Do not watch this race before 30k to go. I should have said 40k to go because that's when just to give you like a feel for how hard they're going, leading to this 130k to go. Alpecon's on the front. Poor Sylvan Dillier. The man must have been on the front the last two years combined like seven hours at this race. He's at the front for Alpecin Premier Tech riding I would guess 380 watts for three and a half hours at a time. The gap to the, you could tell there was nervousness going in the to the Turchino mountain pass. It's like the biggest mountain pass tops out about 120k from the finish. There's nervousness coming in there and the gap is quite small to the breakaway. UA is threatening. You know, they're like sitting they their whole team right behind Alpine. It looks like they're going to make it hard. Nope, it's a fake. They go back, the gap blows out to the breakaway with, you know, 109k to go. It's five minutes with 50k to go. No, 81k to go. UAE finally comes to the front with Doman Novak and the gap is at 7 minutes. UAE gets the front so hard, like with 50k to go, they have Felix Gro sharpener pushing 460 watts just like that's the pace he set. And on the front, the gap goes from seven minutes to one minute with at the, at the cap of Berta with 40k to go, it's down to one minute. So it's a cut in what, the course of 40k. It's cut by six minutes. That's how hard they were going. And then as you say, yeah, Picacho crashes. It's like, well, this is. They're done. Van Art's on the ground. And then if you noticed, I didn't see him go down, but Matthew Vanderpoel's hand was all cut up, so he must have gone down as well. He chases back on. They get to the Chapressa, P gets to the front. He kind of gets back to where he wants to be. Del Toro launches him with, like, around 24k to go. Pagota goes. Were you shocked by the gap between. It was Piera, Pidcock and Vanderpoel were the three at the front, and it looked like the rest of the group took a wrong turn there. The gap was so big, I could not believe it.
- [11:25]
George H
Yeah, it's. It's these guys that. Ogacha's head over heels. Different level than anybody else in the peloton. And you watch, like, let's just back up a little bit. Sylvan Dilia, like, what he did, people are like, oh, he's pulling the front. Like he was. Has been preparing for this all season. Thus far. Like we saw, I was in UAE with my team. He was in the breakaway every day doing solo, like, crazy breakaways. And he's like, I'm just training. Like, why is this guy in the front of the race? Well, he's just training for moments like this where he can hold a breakaway of seven guys within four or five minutes on his own, essentially. But then you watch what. How UAE came together there in the. In the finish. It was just well before in the. On the suppressor. I actually cannot explain how they can use you. You mentioned it, Spencer, how they just. It might have been better, but I'm not sure I agree with you because I cannot physically imagine doing the race. I've done the race 15 times. I didn't remember that you pointed that out, but there's no way, no matter how fit I was, if I could start at the back of the suppressor, I would get to the front. There's just no way. Like, I just can't imagine, because it's such a hard climb after for the American viewers, what, 160 miles. Like, your legs are done at that point. You can move up through the peloton of a. At that point, 60, 80, 100 guys, relatively easy. I just. I can't envision that. And then attack. It's like. It's like. It's like they planned it. But at the same point, I just. I can't imagine the strength of these guys, the way they do it. I mean, they just do it. It makes it look easy for the. For the spectator, for the average fan that's watching it. Like, it just looks easy. But as somebody that's done the race that many times, I just cannot imagine how strong These guys are. It's incredible what they're doing.
- [13:14]
Spencer Martin
I think Adam Blythe or someone was saying on the commentary that Sylvan Dillier, the work he's doing is physically changing his rider profile. Like, he'll. He'll be able to ride sub 400, like, right below 400 watts forever, right? He's gonna be great at that. He's, like, almost permanently damaging his ability to go higher or lower than that, though. Like, that's how. Like, that's how serious you have to be about setting pace like that. Like, that's now the rest of his career. He can't go back to being a different type of writer. And then, as you say, with 50K to go, like, I think you could turn the TV on and say, oh, they're just up there. They're just setting pace. It's like they're going almost 500 watts on the front of this peloton. Like, they're flying and it's not. The attacks aren't even starting.
- [13:56]
George H
Yeah. And Sylvan Delia is going home tonight knowing that he did the most amazing job for his team. His teammates are super appreciative. They know how important his role was. And the fans will be like, well, Sylvan Delay, what'd you do? You just pulled for 150k. Like, they don't really care, but, like, somebody who's been in the war and his teammates that were there, they are, like, so happy with the job that he did because they know it's not an easy job. 1. They know it's a very selfless job, what he did. But as a. As somebody who's done the race, know that it's a super important job to have somebody like that. And that's his only role. And he's on the. One of the best teams in the world. He's getting paid super well to do his job. He has won and his. He's won his job. Like, he did the most amazing job today, and he gets super. Like, he should get super. A ton of accolades for what he did today.
- [14:49]
Spencer Martin
Why was he doing it? Is it because Vanderpoel was technically the favorite for this race and Alpecin just doesn't want the gap to the break to get so big. Like, should they have forced UAE to do that work? Basically,
- [15:03]
George H
well, they probably came out that they won last year, so that it's kind of their responsibility to.
- [15:09]
Spencer Martin
I think they've won the last three years, right?
- [15:12]
George H
Yeah, they've won the last three years. It's their responsibility it's their role to sort of control that. That breakaway from getting away. And, yeah, you would. You can question whether or not UA should have done that, but I don't think it would have changed much. I mean, they have such a deep roster that they probably could have put one guy with Sylvan Delier, but they didn't. That's sort of the tactics, the calls on the road today. But they took the race the bull by the horn, so to speak, and they did a job. And Vanderpoel was there right at the end, had a bad moment on the Poggio, still ended up eighth place, but also came back from a crash, which is such a hard thing to do. I mean, yes, poker chart made it look easy. Van Art made it look easy. But I just. I. As somebody who's done the race so many times, I just. I'm. I'm so in awe and so much respect to what these guys are doing right now.
- [16:07]
Spencer Martin
And I mean, so talk about the bad moment from Vanderpool. Let's give a little context for this. So Pagachar gets away on the Chapressa with Vanderpool and Pitcock. It looks like they're managing their effort, but if you looked at their power files, they're going all out, like, really pushing it. They. They crest the climb. They get to the bottom of the descent. They have 30 seconds on the peloton. It's not over yet. Like, it. You easily could be lulled into thinking it's over because they have. From 18k to go to like 9k to go is a flat run into the Poggio. There's only three of them at the front. It's kind of a difficult decision they have here because they have little trek behind impressively intact. With Visma chasing on so little track is Mads Patterson, which I have no freaking idea how. It's Mads Pedersen, who is a late entry into this race, who's been getting. He had surgery on his. On his wrist and collarbone. Different arm. Different arms. Couldn't wipe his butt, he said, just a few months ago. Now he's. He's in the. In the front chase group at San remo. But they're 30 seconds back, so they have to rotate the three of them at the front. If you looked at their power when they were doing this, Pagachar was pulling at 460 watts. Was sitting in at like 410 watts. So those guys. So Vanderpoel is doing even more because he's bigger. Those guys were going all out in the front, but also having to think, well, we still have one more climb. Is Pagacha going to attack us? What do we do? The gaps coming down because little track's doing a Great job. It's 22 seconds with 11k to go. Start of the Poggio. 9k to go. It's down to 6 seconds. Like the peloton is right there. And as you said, I mean, Pitcock and Pagatra are really paying attention to like they were doing the minimum amount of work while not getting caught because all they need is a little gap at the poggio because no one's going to pull back. Six seconds plus then some on that front group. Vander and then Vanderpool's dropped with the 8 1/2 K to go because of what we just like because the Chapressa was written at a record ascent time and then the. It was not like easy time on the flats. They were cooking on the flats. The plan works. You always plan to kind of, you know, ride the depressor all out. Force Vanderpoel to do a lot of work in between. He's dropped first obstacles done. Pagatra attacks with 7k to go. And we're getting steeper on the poggio. Cannot drop Pidcock. The gap is like 20, says 20 seconds, but you can see that peloton snaking right behind him. Thrilling stuff. They get over the top. I was surprised Pagachar Pickax let Pagodger go first on the descent, which to me was a big advantage to Pagachar because now Pidcock, the best descender maybe in the history of the sport, can't press it. But Pitcock seemed all in on the sprint. He got into the front for a little bit on the descent, but then pushed Picacho back through. Did not seem like he was trying to win the race there. Frankly, I thought he was going to win at this point because he, because he's managing his efforts so well. They go into the, you know, it's this downhill run through the city. It's like flat to downhill and they have just enough time. Like they're both really paying attention to the gap, just enough time. But they are like burning all the time they have because they're not. Neither of them wants to overexpose themselves. Pagacha pulls into the last K and I thought, oh, this is a mistake. And then Vanart attacks from behind. So you have pressure from behind. Van Art is cooking in that chase like the one man chase group staying up in front of the Peloton. Then Pagacha leads the sprint out. I watching it, I thought he lost it, but he wanted a bike throw. He is torn up, by the way. Like, not just a crash. They look like a bad crash. And then he beats Pitcock, who doesn't win, but gets, I would say, one of the most impressive results of his career. And then Van Art with a pretty impressive third place considering he just had surgery on his ankle earlier in 2026. But I thought that they both like, last year. I thought Pagacha did too much work with Vanderpool. Did you think he was doing, like, as it was happening in Georgia, do you think he was doing a good job of managing his effort and kind of. They were using that cushion they had pretty smartly and they used pretty much all of it because they only won by four seconds.
- [20:11]
George H
Yeah, I mean, at that point when they, when you commit on the suppressor, like, you got to keep it rolling. And from experience, like the section between suppressor and the poggio, I mean, it's not easy. I've finished in the front group for the Milan Ceremo maybe 10 times, and I don't think I've ever remember being in the wind between the suppress and the Pojo. Like, you're trying to save as much energy as possible.
- [20:35]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [20:36]
George H
And like trying to soak it all in, like, fall on the wheels. And that's, That's a good one. It's a dead flat. Like, it's kind of a little bit rolling, but super twisty. But, like, you get a lot of advantage on the wheels. So when I saw like, Trek, Byron behind, chasing full gas, I thought they're gonna get caught because the guys from Trek and the guys from Bahrain that were chasing like, their finish of the race was the start of the Pojo, where the guys in the front, their finish was at the finish line. Matt Peterson, all these guys were. The finish was actually at the finish line where you have some of the best riders in the world chasing full gas and they can just sit up on the pojo and go as easy as they can.
- [21:14]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:15]
George H
And they still didn't close the gap. They. But they brought it from 30 to like, what you said, six seconds. But like, for me, in typical racing, like, you close that gap is going to be closed. But these guys are so strong and are able to manage their, their walk and their effort so diligently, more than we've ever seen in, in cycling history. That is actually changing the game. It's changing the tactics. I've never seen Anything like that where they can manage the gap between the breakaway and the peloton and still be able to roll away on the pojos. It's just, I mean, it's just, it's really hard to predict what's going to happen, but it makes it super exciting at the same. At the same time.
- [21:55]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, it's a very good point. It's little trucks. Finish line was the bottom of the climb. The last climb.
- [22:00]
George H
Yes.
- [22:00]
Spencer Martin
And the other guys had to manage their effort and they still got there. That's why you don't see many people ride clear on the chapresso. We've seen it the last two years. Before that, I believe it was Johnny Buno perhaps. I know who I was like in the 90s was the last time it happened before last year. But let's take a quick ad break, George, and then I'm going to throw out some stats and we're going to, we're going to talk about if this is maybe the best win we've. We've seen from Bogota. This episode is brought to you by. Rag and Bone used to have to choose between jeans that look great and jeans that actually lasted. With rag and bone infused denim, you finally get both. Rag and Bone Infused offers a range of fits tailored for any style and occasion. From slim and straight to athletic and relaxed. Infused denim is a wardrobe staple that pairs perfectly with any outfit in whatever fit you prefer. I recently got a pair of rag and bone infused jeans and I've got to tell you, I'm officially obsessed. I went front. I went with the athletic fit in a dark indigo wash. And. And the first time I put them on, I was blown away. They felt broken and immediately stretched where you need them, structure where it matters. They move with you. I literally forgot I was wearing jeans. I was panicked. Do I have pants on? I don't know. That's how comfortable they are. And in fact, this, to me, this is the highest bar you can reach as any piece of clothing. I've worn them on long haul flights, which I used to think was impossible with jeans. It's the one thing I would never do. Now I'm wearing them. Boom, I'm off the plane. I look good right away because I got my Ragamone jeans on and the color is unreal. Rag and Bone uses proprietary eight step overdy process so the wash has real depth to it. I've already had someone ask me where I got them. They look sharp, sharp enough for dinner, but I can throw on a tee and sneakers and they work all weekend. For 20 years, they've been obsessed with making jeans that get better over time. And they can feel quality right away. It's time to upgrade your denim with Rag and bone. For a limited time, our listeners get 20% off their entire order with code themove at rag and bone.com. that's 20 off rag-bone.com with promo code the move. When they ask you where you heard about them, please say us to support the show. All right, let's get back into it. Okay, George. So we're back. Pagacha has now has his. He wins this Sanremo first career San Ramo win. I would say this is the classic least monument least suited to him. So now a sweep looks like it's possible. All. All he needs now is Perry Roubaix. What's the big deal? Just one per bay. But Perry Roubaix actually, for a guy that is that powerful and that good at bike handling, he just needs like an off day from Vanderpoel and he could win Roubaix. I thought San Ramo presented the most problems because as we were just talking about, sure, you can attack further out, but then you got to work on the flat and then you have a group pulling behind. It's not that hard of a race. So you have a big peloton chasing you. Well, he cracked that. Let's just assume he does Roubaix. He gets the. He gets the Sweep now is 11 career monuments. That's second of all time. The only rider with more is Eddie Merckx with 19, I believe. And he's winning them at a pace of like two and a half a year. So if you figure, let's say he has 13 by the end of this year, then he needs 6 to tie Mercs. He could have Merck's tied or beaten by the 2029 season, assuming he keeps winning at this rate. I thought that was an impossible record to be already second and still be. He's at the age I believe in. Lance won his second tutor France. So like we're talking about a guy that's got maybe some tread on the tires. It's impressive. I think though, just setting the numbers aside, I think this is the most impressive win I've ever seen from him, maybe even more than the 2020 Tour fronts because there's no pressure on that. Right. He just had to show up and do that time trial. Like he doesn't win. It's not a big deal at all. Like what an amazing result for a 21 year old. This is a lot of pressure on him. You know, everyone's looking at him. His team has a plan. He crashes, he gets dinged up. That was not a light crash. And then he comes back and wins. And someone texted me right after he crashed, like, if he, I texted, like, he's going to win. Like, he's going to win now. And they're like, this is the most impressive win I've ever seen. If he does and he does it, I mean, we're talking, like, the stuff of that you would not think is possible. He's now doing on a routine basis. Do you think this is the most impressive Pagacha win you'd ever seen? And do you think it's the most impressive one day when you've ever seen, setting aside your wolf again win?
- [26:16]
George H
I would have to say 100%. I mean, going back, it's not like, it's not like it was a weird crash. Like he just crashed on his own. Like he crashed with the favorites of the race, Binger Gourmet. Wow. Bernard. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Vanderpoel was in that crash as well. Or got.
- [26:31]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:32]
George H
So, like, the favorites of the race, except for Tom Pickcock, were in that crash. And like I mentioned earlier in the show, there's no way you're coming back from that. So the fact that he came back and did the majority of the work from, from basically the bottom of this Pressa after Brandon McNulty and he's like, Del Toro pulled off to the finish line and we talk about, like, how do we change the tag? How do, how do the riders change the tactics? How do the team change the tactics to beat him? Tom Pickac did the absolute perfect race, actually. In fact, I texted the owner of his team, Yvonne Glassburn, said, he's riding amazing. Like, you can't ride a better race than what he's doing right now. He's kind of missed a couple of balls going into the podcast. Only did the work on the downhill, which you're not spending much energy, has won AMSOL Gold race against one of the best sprinters in the world, Wild Bernard. So he has an amazing sprint. So he was going in super confident. Like, there's nothing different that he could have done to won that race. And Poker Chart still wins it with a crash. So it's just, I just don't know how you can beat this guy. Like, he is just essentially unbeatable.
- [27:41]
Spencer Martin
I, I People were saying that I thought, well, wait till San Remo. He's going to get beat at San Ramo. I really thought that we should shout out Johan Bernal. He said in the preview, he said, pitcock is classy. You rarely see a rider like this and he's on form. I said, I don't know about that. Tom Pidcock on climbs as shallow, I think he doesn't have the power. Johan was right because as you say, Pidcock looked like he was riding the perfect race. He looked unshakable. I, I would say they don't win, but Pinarello Q 36.5. Your good buddy must feel good because this is a big result for a non. They're a second division team, same division as your team. I mean, imagine if Modern Adventures got second. San Ramo, like, that'd be quite the result. They are, they are a very well funded second division team. This isn't like a mom and pop shop, but that's huge for them. We should also say Wout Van Art. It's his first monument podium since 2023. So this is a big result for. Wow. Even though he doesn't win. I mean, he actually was a few, like he was a few decisions from the front two away from potentially winning this race. I, I, I'm still in awe of how him and Mads Pedersen did at this race. Coming off injuries earlier this spring, where I kind of wrote them off for the Monument season. And then I would say Vanderpoel, eighth place. That this is probably. I don't have, I should have it pulled up. It might be his worst result in a Monument, like a long time. But that's more of a testament to Vanderpoel because we've gotten used to him winning or finishing on the podium of every monument he starts. But George, how do you feel going in the next? We kind of have a little bit of a break with Bass country and then we go into the cobbled monuments. Like, if you're Pitcock, if you're Van Art, if you're Vanderpoel. What are you feeling as you have to go up against this guy who seems like he can win anything whenever he wants?
- [29:34]
George H
Yeah, I mean, just let's back up a little bit. Matt Peterson. What? Like, like you said, I mean, he's essentially has not raised his bike for six months. He did in one race in Spain. Broke his elbow hand.
- [29:44]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. First race of the year.
- [29:46]
George H
First race of the year. Getting fourth place in Santa Remo. The whole team behind him. I mean, total Rockstar ride. He's got to come out with confidence. The team has got to come out with confidence. I mean, they lost Jonathan Milan due to illness a couple days ago. Who, who could have probably most likely been there as well. So they're going to go into the next block of the Caval races with a ton of confidence knowing that they got Mads back. I'm sure Jonathan Milan will be back. Wild Ben Hart was also in that crash, coming back, getting third place. He was with Mato Jurgensen. I mean the team really came together to bring them all back where it was like you should not be able to come back after a crash like that. So all these guys did an incredible ride. But as you said, I mean poker just, just continues to impress. And it's like we can keep. We can keep saying the same thing. Like this is the rider, the best rider we've seen in a long time or maybe perhaps in the history of cycling. But what he did today, I don't think we've seen something like that in the. In cycling. And I don't remember ever seeing anything like that. I mean, 30k to go on s coming back and winning the race crashing is incredible.
- [30:53]
Spencer Martin
Caught up in the world champions jersey. It was one of these things that you read about, you need to read about from the Merck's times and you think that doesn't sound right or how is that possible? It's like that we watched something like that happen where you would not think it's possible and it happened. I mean, I would say it's. Maybe it's a good thing. Johans. It doesn't have WI fi because personally I think there's no debate anymore. I think this is. I think this is the best of all time.
- [31:22]
George H
Oh yeah. I mean you can't. It's almost without a doubt, not only that, but like the calls that got to go on in the race cars when that happens. Like, okay, Del Toro, you stay in the front just in case. You can hang with the best guys. Keep McNulty back with you, keep a couple of his teammates back with him and just sort of pace yourself. Weight through the peloton when they're going full gas. Like I'll. I never. I still remember super vividly like the train station on the left turn on the left when you gotta take a right turn to go to Espresso. Like that's like what you keep an eye out for and you're going 60k an hour after capability to get to the suppressor. Like at least 60k. You probably would. Can look it up. But the average speed from the. From the top of Caplamella to the bottom of the suppressor has to be way over 50k an hour. So the fact that he's behind there and trying to work his way back, I mean think about his speeds, think about his power that he's putting in before he actually gets to the suppressor and is able to attack halfway up to the suppressor. I don't ever remember seeing anything like that.
- [32:26]
Spencer Martin
And they keep it. The crazy thing to me is they keep a teammate up there, like talk about confidence, like he's like, don't even come back because he's, because he's going to make it. Stay up there. That was kind of the key too because we were talking about that little. They had a little bit of a gap going into the podium. Not mainly, but it, it definitely was a factor that Del Toro was in the Chase group. But you saw he was rotating through and he would rotate through, sit up, it just kind of disrupted the chase a little bit. I mean del Toro was super impressive and you'd think, well, someone's as good as P are that's not great for everybody else. And then you're like, well guess what? They have a rider that's five years younger, six years younger, that is almost just as good and he's going to be in the second group of every one day race gumming up your chase. Good luck with that. Very hard to beat that. We should say though. Yeah. You mentioned Little Trek. I almost think Little Trek, as crazy as it is, almost the team of the day. I could not believe how well they did, how well they got over the tra. And if you notice when those three went away, I mentioned the big gap. It's almost like that that was pre planned. It's like don't even follow them, like don't, don't lose the team, manage the effort and then ride as hard as you can in the valley or the coastal road between the two climbs.
- [33:39]
George H
Yeah, I think once we get to the, the Belgian Classics coming up here in a few weeks, like you gotta put, you gotta put a lot of confidence in Mads Peterson. I mean, not racing for six months essentially and getting fourth place today in a 300 kilometer race. And he's about to hit his arguably like what he's really good at in the Classics at Belgian Classics. It's gonna be a big battle between Mads Peterson, Vanderpoel and Bogotar as well.
- [34:08]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I agree. Let's take another quick break and then I have a few, a few random shout outs for people I was surprised were in the Front group and I do want to get your thoughts on a few of the Cobble Classics before you have to run. The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. All right, George, we're back. You mentioned the Cobble Classics. I do think I I today I would say the most impressive victory I've ever seen. So that that's, that's on one side of the the tally mark. The other is I would not say I predicted in our Johan and I did a prediction show before 2026. I predicted that Pagachar would win every monument of the year. We're not we that is a possibility. But I would come away from this race. Yes. On one hand Pagatar is amazing, almost unbeatable. The other hand, we have better competition than I thought because Pitcock looks like he's on career best form. He's finally. He's what, 26 years old. I thought today was the biggest. I know he's won two world Olympic championships at least on the road. The biggest day of his career. Anyone on Optuez but that going toe to toe with the best guys being undroppable like that is not that is something. Tom Pickock is up there now. Wow. Vanar looks good. Mads Patterson looks good. But Matthew Vanderpoel is always going to look good. That guy's unshakable. I mean Jasper Stuyvin in seventh as well. Like you. You actually have a lot of strong classics contenders here. Like so let's say we have a little bit of a break. So we have bass country and then early April we're at Flanders and then a week later we're at Brew Bay. Like who, who do you who would you pick from this group to like. I guess we also have g w e3. Like who do you think is going to shine in those cobbled races later in the year?
- [36:30]
George H
That's a tough one. But I'm gonna see what Matt Peterson did today in his first race back Arguably one of the most technical races in terms of like fighting for position, longest world Cups of the year and coming, you know, coming out of essentially no racing. I'm going to put my money on him to be super successful in the next three weeks.
- [36:53]
Spencer Martin
I was going to say if, if take a walk down to the local bookie and maybe put a little bit of money on Pedersen to win root
- [36:59]
George H
be because Jonathan Milan will be back. His team, he, they had four or five, maybe five guys there before the Pojo. Like, their team is super strong. Yes. They didn't come away with the win, but I think they're, they're going home tonight going, okay, we're ready. We're ready for the big classics coming up.
- [37:17]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, and I don't know about the classics, but this guy has been everywhere this year. Tobias Loon Danderson finishes 13th in the front group from Decathlon. Good sprinter. I mean, to get over those two climbs. Four seconds back from, from Picacho and Pidcock like he is. I think he already has three World tour wins this year. That's someone to keep an eye on. Let me look at his race schedule. Yeah, he's doing, he's doing the full, the full flander in. No, he races up to dwarves dwarf Lander in. But all these pre Flanders races keeping on him also. Do you know who finished in the front chase group? Like the front group. I couldn't believe this. Mr. Primos Roglich. Where did that come from? Has he even started this race before?
- [37:59]
George H
Yeah, I was surprised. I saw him early on with like 200k to go. Sitting there in the front. I go. I didn't really realize Primos Roglic was doing this race, but yeah, another guy, like just continues to impress for sure.
- [38:13]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I assume it's part of some. Well, I said to someone earlier today, I was like, you know, I think Pedersen's just doing, he's just trying to get race miles in his legs. That's what I thought. That's why I thought he was starting this race. And then he gets fourth. But I'd assume Primos, I guess a lot of these guys too, live in Monaco. Race finishes close to home. Not too much of a heavy lift for the travel, but I, I, I'm coming away with this thinking, yep, Pagacha is probably the best we've ever seen. This is unbelievable. But we're going into what I think is going to be a great, great Copper Classic season.
- [38:46]
George H
I agree. I mean, Van Vanderpoel, like, let's not discount he Also crashed. He came back and was able to make the break with their final move with Pidcock and Poguchar. And then still sprints for eighth place after getting caught by the peloton. Like, most people don't understand, like, what it takes to actually get caught. You're dead 300k into a race and you're still sprinting for top 10. Like, I mean, he's gonna have an incredible classics campaign as well.
- [39:13]
Spencer Martin
The crazy thing, too, he's setting probably personal records on all these climbs. So you're doing these climbs faster than you've done them when you won the race.
- [39:21]
George H
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Spencer Martin
And you're in the front. You're just like getting swept up by a group. Like, what is going on here yet? And there still be sprinting for eighth. There is probably a point of pride. I don't know if you notice, but Jasper Phillips in the last. So it's been Phillips, it's been Vanderpoel, Phillipson, Phillipson, I believe. Yeah, Vanderpoel, Phillipson, Vanderpoel, and then Pagacha won this year. So. Sorry, I said that backwards. 2023 Vanderpoel, 2024 Phillips, and 2025 Vanderpoel, and then 2026 Pagachar. So Alpecin Premier Tech has won this race the last three years before this. Phillipson, who won it in 2024, was the one doing the work to pull Vanderpoel back into the group after he crashed. So he kind of sacrificed his chances to compete for the win to get Vanderpoel up there. That's how much confidence the team has in him. I was pretty impressed by that. By a guy who won the race just a few years ago, who would have had a decent chance probably if. If that came back together. So kudos to him.
- [40:19]
George H
We're gonna. We may even start seeing, like, scenarios where what we saw today were the strongest guys in the race, Vanderpoel, Bogotar, Pickcock, make this selection and they still have 30k to go or whatever, 20k to go to the finish of the race. We may start seeing scenarios where they're just not going to work anymore, where they'll have a guy like Phillips in behind or let's say somebody from Trex in that selection. And they have a guy like Mads Peterson behind, behind. They're not going to work anymore to guarantee their third place because they know they might not be able to be poker chart. They might just sit on his wheel like, so we might see scenarios where these guys will not Work with poker chart, if they're with them, if they're able to hang with them on, on the second to last climb or the second last hard section, like teams may start saying, you know what, if you make the selection with poker, you cannot work with them because we have to give our other guys a chance because you might not be able to beat them. And I'm one on one sprint.
- [41:17]
Spencer Martin
I'm glad you bring that up because I'm sure people were screaming during the race and screaming at us during this podcast, like, why does anyone work with them? Don't work with them. Well, let's talk through that. So those three get away. Pitcock, Vanderpol, Picachar, Pitcock kinda has to work, right? Because he's. Even if he gets second, that's the biggest result of his, one of the biggest results of his career, one of the biggest recent results of his career. And he has a decent chance to win, you know, in a sprint against Pagacha. Like, you can't. The team has no, no other option. So he kind of has to do work. Vanderpoel, I was thinking, like, what if Vanderpoel just sat on here? Like, what do you think would have happened if Vanderpool wouldn't have worked with those two?
- [41:59]
George H
Well, I mean, I'm saying as from a director's standpoint, from a writer standpoint, if you make it through, like the stress of positioning and actually making that selection and you're guaranteed, essentially guaranteed a top three, you're going to work. It's like you're going to want to work to get guaranteed that top three spot. But directors and, and sponsors may say at some point, like, there's no way we're going to win this unless we take a chance, sit on and give our guy, our sprinter behind the chance. I'm just saying that might change the game in some sense because currently what we're seeing is there's no way to beat Bogotar.
- [42:35]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Yes. I do agree with you that from a high level, like a team strategy level, they might start pulling out. And you see this in other sports as well. Like in the modern game, people think of the warriors with Steph Curry, it's almost hack it to the point, to the most extreme point, and you just have to do ridiculous stuff to stop it. Yeah. And having Matthew Interpol not poll in the front group might be one of those things. Probably hard to convince. And part of the beauty of cycling, though, is Pidcock and Vanderpoel, probably when they're in that group. I believe in their heart of hearts, like, I'm gonna smoke this guy.
- [43:11]
George H
Yeah.
- [43:11]
Spencer Martin
Like, I'm better than Pagod Charge today. So managing that is probably difficult for a team as well.
- [43:17]
George H
I agree. I agree. I'm just saying we might start seeing those scenarios. But I. I had my money on Peacock. When I saw that breakaway, when I saw how. How smartly he was riding and kind of sort of missed missing polls here and there, and, you know, with the sprint that we all know he has, I had my money on Peacock, but it didn't happen.
- [43:35]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I. I thought it's. I thought so, too. I thought that was about as good a shot as you're gonna get at Pagachar. I mean, if we really think about what do we do to beat this guy, he seems unbeatable. Today actually was a good scenario. It's not. It's not like Strada Bianchi, where it's just like, we're gonna line up and he's gonna ride away from us. I thought Pickock had it. I thought he did everything right. You could see Pagacha looking back. He was worried about the chase group. He was working quite a bit to make sure, because, as you say, you don't want to go to get away and get caught, because then you're not going to beat Pedersen, you're not going to beat Van Art. These guys who didn't. Corbin Strong is going to beat you because he didn't make the effort to get away. So you kind of have to stay away. I thought Pickax had it chapeau to him, though. Great race. Did you notice, though, Great race. Italian monument. The two bikes first, Colonago, second, Pinarello. Two classic Italian bikes, top two steps of the podium.
- [44:30]
George H
Yeah, good point.
- [44:31]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, Pretty. Pretty cool to see it actually up there. But so you. You. You're over in Europe, you're in Belgium for Enzo. Had a race today, and then your team's racing. What's. What's your next big race on the calendar?
- [44:43]
George H
Yeah, we have the Volta, the Catalunya, starting Monday. So I'll be flying from Belgium back to Spain on tomorrow night, and we'll be starting off on Monday morning.
- [44:54]
Spencer Martin
Nice. Did you hear that? Best of luck. You guys have been doing great. Been great to see. Also, do you see this guy, Jonah Curie? Johan and I were talking about him on the show the other day. This also might be tampering, what we're doing right now, but I. I'd never heard of this guy. American rider. He's only been On French and it's like French and Belgian club and continental level teams and he was last man standing in the break.
- [45:19]
George H
Yeah, he was. He was away with one of my guys. Sean. Sean Christian.
- [45:22]
Spencer Martin
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [45:23]
George H
And he. Yeah, I was, I was actually quite surprised myself and I really excited to see another American writer up there.
- [45:31]
Spencer Martin
Jonah Kelly is his name. But yeah, we shouted him out the other last episode. Let's chat him out again. That was super impressive. That's a hard career to take, by the way. Yeah, but did you hear that Remco? Even a pole is supposed to be going to Catalonia to face off in the snow. He's stuck in the snow on Mount Teed, which is not normally of snow, so might not be seen a showdown there.
- [45:53]
George H
Well, maybe that's one spot further up in the gc. We can finish if he doesn't show up. But obviously we want the best guys there.
- [46:01]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, lock in second place for you. It is actually an exciting race. Starts on Monday. Jonas Vinegard Rim, Kathman Polk, maybe, maybe not. Joao Meda, Tom Pickock, Jay Vine, Oscar Onley, Brandon McNulty, Julio Ciccone, Lenny Martinez. Very stacked field. I'm excited to see that. Best of luck, George. Anything else before we take off? I think this is maybe the first time we've ever. This pairing of the move has ever happened.
- [46:23]
George H
Yeah, no, actually you're right. Yeah. No, Johan today he's. He's in somewhere in southern Spain without Wi Fi. But yeah, no, it's exciting today. I, I gotta say today was super exciting. I mean the, the best rider in the world won, but we didn't really know it until the last 50 meters of the race that he was going to win. It was down to the wire and I think it was more exciting than the last World Cups we've watched. And hopefully we'll get more of that excitement in the next, the next races to come.
- [46:52]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I, I hope people don't because there's this narrative like, oh, Pagacha is making racing boring. Today was one of the most exciting races I've ever seen. That was unbelievable. And what he's doing is he's raising the level of the rest of the sport. Like these guys are riding better than they would if he wasn't there because they have to, to have a chance. So that's cool to see as well.
- [47:12]
George H
Yeah. And going back, I know I mentioned it earlier, but seeing guy like Brandon McNulty, an American guy, like working his way through the peloton and, and making. Having a massive impact on poker Charles win is for me, super exciting to, to. To witness as well.
- [47:26]
Spencer Martin
That was huge, huge turn of work from Brandon. And to have. I don't think people realize, to have a quality, that quality of writer leading you out at that point is a huge advantage.
- [47:36]
George H
Absolutely.
- [47:37]
Spencer Martin
That guy is a thoroughbred. Unbelievable. Writer Johan was telling me on the previous show. I said, oh, McNulty, he could play a part on the Chapressa. Johan said, his handling's not good enough. He's not going to be there.
- [47:48]
George H
Well, he proved your honor on today because he was there.
- [47:52]
Spencer Martin
He was there. I said, this guy, he's legit, but also like we saw with Tiger woods and golf. And you see it often with like tennis and whatnot. Pagatra will. He will become a victim of this at a certain point. He is increasing the level in the sport to the point that it will come back to bite him, basically because everyone's getting better. He's gonna have a down moment and he's going to get swamped by all these writers who have gotten better because of him. That's kind of the cool thing about this.
- [48:20]
George H
I agree. Yeah.
- [48:22]
Spencer Martin
Well, thanks so much, George. Best of luck at Catalunya. And we'll have Johan back on this show next week to give his belated thoughts on Sin Rainbow and. And Lance, we're gonna have the A team lineup. We're gonna have like, Lance, George, Johan on the upcoming Monuments as well, like Flanders and Rebate. So get excited for that.
- [48:38]
George H
Awesome. All right.
- [48:40]
Spencer Martin
All right, talk to you later.
- [48:41]
George H
Thank you.
- [48:42]
Spencer Martin
Bye. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.