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Tour de France 2026 Route Reveal Breakdown | THEMOVE
01:02:20
Lance, Johan, and Spencer break down the newly unveiled 2026 Tour de France route, stage by stage. They dissect the key climbs, time trials, and transition days, debate how tough the race really is, who the course favors, and what early storylines...
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- [00:00]
A
For as long as I can't remember lines, you know, every time the route come out and, you know, it's good for climbers. Oh, you know, back in your days, you know, it's, it's for climbers. So are you guys okay? I said, well, last time I checked, Armstrong was a pretty good climber. Yeah, you know, no, but, you know.
- [00:20]
B
The last time I checked, he was the best climber. Hey, good morning, everybody. Welcome Back to the Move podcast. We're talking about the 2026 Tour de France. Today they revealed the course in Paris as they do every year in October. It's always. I actually only went to. Johan, remind me. I think I only went to one of them.
- [00:49]
A
One.
- [00:50]
B
One in person, but it's a big deal. You know, this is, is kept in secret as we talk about a lot during the summer. This is, this is the Tour de France. This is, this is owned by the Omry family. They, they can do whatever they want, right? The course. I get a lot of questions actually, in my daily life of, of the, the course, and a lot of people kind of think it's basically the same every year. I'm like, no, no, no, no. It changes a lot every year. So it's a big surprise. And, and, and, and today was the day they revealed the route. Now full transparency. It is also going to be a big surprise to me because I haven't necessarily gone through this thing stage by stage, of course. I am joined by Johan Brunel and our professor, Spencer Martin. They have gone through it day by day, mile by mile, kilometer by kilometer. We got some interesting tidbits, but while you all are learning about the 2026 Tour de France, yours truly is going to take this opportunity to learn as well. So, Johan, how you doing over there? Hey, show Brought to you by Roka. My good friends right here in Austin, Texas, they have completely reinvented not just the sunglass category, but all eyewear across the board. Love them. Their prescription glasses, by the way, are the exact same technology as their performance sunglasses. I do not go anywhere. I'm wearing them right now. My readers, my reader 2.0s. I've got them in my backpack. I've got them on my bedside table. I've got them everywhere, everywhere. Overall, the brand, unbelievably lightweight. The best optics on the market. They never slip, no matter how sweaty you get. Not only is Roka working with special forces, they test their stuff with the best athletes around. Love that. Like I said, hand built to order. In my hometown of Austin, Texas, the move listeners get 20% off. Just go to roka r o k a roka.com Enter the code the Move at checkout. Today's show also brought to you by NordVP. With NordVPN, you can safely access your favorite streams and other content from home. No matter where you go. You can easily switch your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries. Easy to use connect with one click or enable auto connect for the zero click protection. 7500 servers in 118 countries change your virtual location easily, all with amazing speed. NORDVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there. Get your exclusive NordVPN deal here. Head on over to NordVPN.com themove that's Nord. That's n o r d NordVPN.com themove it's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. NordVPN.com the move I'm good.
- [03:51]
A
Good in Madrid. All good here. And yeah, I went on a bike ride this morning and came back home to see the course come notes. So it's. Yeah, it's going to be an interesting. I mean, listen, we say the same thing every year, right? It's, it's. Is it good for this guy? Is it good for climbers? At the end of the day it's the strongest guy who wins and you know, we don't need to, I mean, spoil it. It's going to be the same guys again in the front. But I think it's an interesting course that ASO has produced here.
- [04:23]
B
Okay, well, just while you say that and while, and before we say hi to Spencer, I mean just your initial impression you're given. Am I hearing you say that Johan Brunel gives his blessing or gives it two thumbs up?
- [04:43]
A
Well, do I have a choice? No, but. No, I think it's an interesting.
- [04:47]
B
Of course you have a choice. You could say, you could say the route is dog.
- [04:51]
A
I don't know. It's okay, it's okay. I think it's nice, especially because it's, you know, backloaded. You know, the hardest stages are really at the end. So although we all know that there's one big favorite, the suspense will stay or the uncertainty will stay until the end because stage 18, 19 and 20 are extremely hard.
- [05:17]
C
Johan, are we, are we worried about this back this last week? I mean, what have we seen in recent years where we have difficult final weeks and everyone just sits tight? You know that that's a little bit my concern. When I saw this. That. When you have, like, these three consecutive brutal mountain stages in the final week, no one's going to roll the dice. Trying to. And also it's. It's like, who does this course favor? Well, probably Tadde Pagachar. Cause he's the best rider in the world. But are we worried people are just gonna sit tight to try to survive the final three days? That was the first thing that stuck out to me when I saw this. That, like, ooh, is this gonna be a little bit of a sleepwalk into the final three days?
- [05:56]
A
No, I don't think so. I don't think. Obviously, you have to save and be strategically, you know, smart about the last week, but it also. I think normally after one or two mountain stages, we will see the differences. And let's. Let's be clear. You know, we have seen in the last. I mean, basically all the Grand Tours where Pogacha and Jonas Wingergaard participated. They are head and shoulders above everybody else. And today is still a level ahead. But we won't really know for certain who's going to win until stage 20, because a lot of things can happen. I think that's. That's the point. And that's bas probably also the reason why they decided to have these two or three Alp stages, really, at the end.
- [06:43]
B
Well, as the guy who doesn't know a whole lot, I know a few things. I mean, I know that the race starts in Barcelona. I think that's. I mean, I think that's cool. I mean, obviously, you know, I have a little bit of PTSD from going in there. What was it? Y. 2009.
- [07:01]
A
2009. Yeah.
- [07:02]
B
You know, you're riding through a big city. We had some rain that day. Barcelona, it's obviously way too far out to be talking about the weather, but I'll never forget that day.
- [07:14]
A
Yeah, it was hard.
- [07:15]
B
It was very Praying that I would stay on my bike, which I'm assuming everybody else was saying the same prayer, but, you know, go through Girona. I think that's cool. Nice little. Nice little tip of the cap to all the professional cyclists that live there. Two times. Alpe d'. Wez. That's. That's a curveball.
- [07:38]
A
Yeah.
- [07:39]
B
Okay. Outside of that, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm all ears, fellas.
- [07:44]
A
Yeah, well, it's. You know, it starts in Barcelona, starts with a team time trial. So it's been a while since the Tour de France had a team time trial. 19km only. It's on the. So it starts in Barcelona, they go to Monjwic and they, I guess they do a loop there on that circuit. But the difference with other time trials is that this time they've done this experiment already a few times in Paris is that the time is taken on the first rider, not on the fourth rider or the fifth rider. Back in the day it was the fifth rider. I guess now with eight riders it's the fourth rider. Now this is only one rider. So basically you could see this as a lead out, a team leading out their leader and then that leader going at the end either by himself or with the second leader or whoever can stay with that guy. So I think that's interesting.
- [08:36]
B
In their interest to keep as many guys. Let's just use Poguchar and UAE as an example.
- [08:42]
C
Right.
- [08:42]
B
And we were kind of riffing in the pre show with say a del Toro comes, for example. Right. I mean you would want those guys, obviously you want Tade to go as hard as he can and you would want all of these other guys to stay on his wheel as long as possible. By the way too. I mean, you say only 19 kilometers, right. There's a part of me that says we knew that it was starting with a team time trial, but there's a part of me that thought, oh, is this one of these seven, eight kilometer kind of, you know, back massages that they can start these things with? 19k is. I get it. It's not, you know, it's not old school where we're going 50, 60 kilometers, but you know, I mean, you can see a world where, where there are some teams that are going to lose 30 seconds.
- [09:32]
C
Yeah.
- [09:32]
A
Maximum.
- [09:33]
C
Yeah. Well, is it going to be at nighttime, Johan? Remember also, they did it after dark.
- [09:40]
A
Yeah.
- [09:41]
C
Pitch black.
- [09:42]
A
Was that was in the Vuelta, right?
- [09:44]
C
In the Vuelta, yeah.
- [09:45]
A
Yeah. And yeah, that was really, really bad. It's not the same time of the year, of course, you know, this was September. Now it's. Now it's July. I guess they're gonna. But you know, in the, in the Vuelta when they did in Barcelona, they didn't, they didn't count on the weather changing and all of a sudden was pitch black, raining. Anyway, 19 kilometers we saw in the Vuelta now this year there was a team. Was it more or less the same? I think was it 17, 19 kilometers the time, the time gaps were very, very small. So I expect more or less the same. You know, these, these big teams are very, very equal in terms of strength, collective strength, and it the top guy that makes the difference. So it's It's. I think it's a nice start, but it's definitely not going to be decisive. Back in the day, Lance, you know, when we had these 50, 60 kilometer team time trials. I remember my first Tour de France I did. I think the team time trial was 78 kilometers.
- [10:44]
B
Oh, Lord.
- [10:46]
C
Jeez.
- [10:47]
A
You know, I mean, there you. That was. I mean, if you were only a minute down, that was like a huge success, you know.
- [10:54]
C
Right.
- [10:54]
A
No, now we're talking about 10, 15, 20 seconds. Basically.
- [10:59]
B
Yeah.
- [11:00]
C
Should we. I don't know if we mentioned that this team time trail has two climbs. So they go Manjuic, which is famous from the Catalunya. Volta.
- [11:10]
A
Catal. Catalunya. Yeah. And World championships have been there.
- [11:15]
C
Jewish Mountain, I believe is what it means. And they descend down and then climb again to the Olympic stadium. So there's two climbs. One is a kilometer long at 5.4%. The final climb, 700 meters at 8%. The reason this is interesting with the rule you just described time on the first rider. So some, some riders like, let's say, I don't know, Rima Pole, I guess he'll have Florian Lipowitz on his team. That's going to be an interesting battle. But, you know, maybe Jonas Finnegaard doesn't have anyone that can get over Monj week with him. Because you have to make a calculation of do I go as fast as I can and drop my teammates or do I nurse a teammate over? Is that worth. To have a teammate for the final three and a half, four kilometers to help me and. But do you think Picacho is going to be solo over that climb? Probably not. So like right there, you like, give it. Give a big advantage to the Gotcha, because he's going to have someone on his team that can probably get over that climb with him, whether it be Del Toro or someone else.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, I think Jorgensen will be. Will be with. With Jonas. If. You know, I think, I think that's the second best guy, especially for that kind of effort. So I think, I think they're both, they're. They kind of equal, these teams. You know, if I look at Visma and UAE today, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say one is more favored than the other. Of course, I think Pogachar is probably going to win because he's more explosive than Jonas, especially on those, on those short clamps.
- [12:40]
C
But wait, wait, wait one second. Do you think at this year's Tour Visma was just as strong as uae?
- [12:48]
A
I mean, on in team time trial.
- [12:51]
C
I don't know who Jorgensen was sick, I guess, but that, that complicated it. But I don't think Jonas would have had anyone getting over that climb with him this year. Right.
- [13:05]
A
Yeah. I mean if you're, if Jorgensen is in good shape, I think, I think he's number two there. And listen, UAE is, is obviously the better team, but. But it's not like they're gonna, you know, make. Make a big difference in that, in that first stage already.
- [13:22]
C
That's a very, very good point. Because what do we see at the vault of this year? Team time trial. And it was think Tom Pickock, think how weak that team is relative to the others. What did they lose? Like 20 seconds? Almost like maybe 26 seconds or something. So yeah, probably minimal time gaps.
- [13:38]
A
Yeah, for sure.
- [13:40]
C
Um, should we say that it's 21 stages. So if you don't know the tr 21 stages, eight mountain stages. This is from Aso. I, I haven't. We haven't been able to go through the profiles cuz they don't release all of them. Five summit finishes, seven flat stages, whatever that means. Four hilly stages, which are probably pretty hard when the profiles come out. We can kind of take a deeper look at that. But. And then 54,000 meters of vertical climbing is what they're saying. That probably will change once the gps everyone's able to lock into those GPS files. But that's quite a bit more climbing than this year's tour, which was around 48,000 meters of climbing. Will it make it harder? That's hard to tell just from this, but it does start pretty tough. Johan. Cause you're describing this team time trial. But then stage two, there's also a funny tour because you have two stages that finish in the same place. So the first stage finishes in Barcelona, second stage finishes in Barcelona. And then 8, 19 and 20 finish in the same place, Alpe d'. Huez. But stage two is hard. And then you have a summit finish. You go straight to the Pyrenees from, from Barcelona. So hard start to the race.
- [14:46]
A
Yeah. And the third, third stage already is. I mean it's not a high mountain stage, but in my opinion it's a mountain stage. You know, you go over La Molina, you go to Fortimeux, which is all the, it's all the time uphill and it's finish on an unknown climb. But it's, it's not. But you know, you have to be on the top of your game from day one in this Tour de France, which you Know, nowadays it's basically. You have to be every single grand tour on day one. But. But yeah, stage three already. Listen, if you're. If you're not 100, you're in trouble in stage three.
- [15:23]
B
Yep. And some concentration in the massive central. As I sit here and look at the map on the official site. I mean if you count that stage into Bergerash Burger, whatever you say, you know, three, four, five stages. Right. Just right in the middle. Just little transition days. That's where you. I mean you talk about adding. Going from 48,000 total meters of climbing to 54,000. I mean days like that just constantly, you're. You're just adding up the meters of vertical pretty quickly.
- [15:57]
A
I think one of the. One of the hardest stages of the Tour also is. I mean probably, maybe not in total elevation, but if you look at stage 10, it's in the massive central. And that's this. That's the stage where it's almost identical. Stage where you remember when. Last year, 2024, when Pogacha attacked, ran out of gas, Jonas came back, beat him in the sprint. Yeah, it's that finish and those climbs that's just in the middle of the Tour. But you know, to go back to the first week, stage six in the Pyrenees, real huge mountain stage, you know, Aspen Tour Malay from the La Manjis side. And then they go down and they go on finishing on a not very steep climb. But already, you know, High Pyrenees already in stage six.
- [16:47]
C
Which is a departure from. From last. This last year where it was. We should also say part of the reason we probably spent so much time in the north at the beginning of this year's Tour is because we don't go north of. If you set aside Paris like we really don't go north of the Alsace or massive central. So we're totally ignoring Brittany, Normandy, all those regions up there. We do go to five mountain stages, I guess.
- [17:14]
A
Not on top finishes or we.
- [17:16]
C
Sorry mountain. Mountain ranges. We go to the Pyrenees, the Alps, the Jura, the Massey Central and then my favorite, the Vosges. Did you see the Mark Stein is back. Johan stage was at 14. That's where.
- [17:29]
A
14. Yeah, that's.
- [17:30]
C
We got your one the last time they were there.
- [17:32]
A
He did win there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- [17:34]
C
After it was cracked. Yeah.
- [17:36]
A
20, 23. Yeah.
- [17:38]
C
So do you think this is a ridiculous question? Does this route help Pagacha are more or less than this last year's route or does it not matter?
- [17:51]
B
I don't think it matters at this point.
- [17:53]
A
I mean this Pagacha doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Especially also, I mean, he's the best by far and he has the strongest team by far.
- [18:03]
C
Yeah, yeah. And the thing that would stop him for being completely honest is chaos and crashes. Right? Like something does this route with its hard start, and then you settle in to, let's say from stage five to stage 12, you really settle into the meat of the sprint stages. Will that make the sprint stages less or more chaotic, you think?
- [18:28]
A
What did you say? There's seven flat stages?
- [18:30]
C
Oh, no, no. From stage five to stage 12, that's where most of the seven. Yeah, I said there's seven. Yeah, flat, whatever. That's. It's not really flat, obviously, but stages where sprinters could win, and most of those are in the middle. So I would think that probably settles the sprinters down. You get less. Remember that. Like Carnet, like Phillips and crashing. It was like, really hectic in the first few days. Up in the north of this year's Tour, I'd imagine we get less of that. Do you think that's right?
- [18:59]
A
I mean, it tended to be that way. Now you would say, okay, there's a team time trial, there's a hard stage on stage three, and stage six, it's already a GC day, so after that, everybody knows their place. But, you know, the sprinters have to do their job, you know, and there's many teams that go with just a sprinter. That's their main, Their main goal. If you look, for example, a team like Alpecin, right, they're going to go with. With Philipson and probably Vanderpool, I don't know. But that's where they have to do their job in the middle, in those, you know, between stage five and stage 12. And. And there's other teams, too little track, for example, with, you know, with Peterson and Milan, if they're both going. I don't know many other teams with sprinter. So it's still going to be hectic. I mean, nowadays, I think cycling does not slow down, Spencer. It's.
- [19:55]
C
It's.
- [19:56]
A
It's full gas from stage one till stage 21. It's. It's the speeds always super high.
- [20:03]
C
Milan, Pederson, AO and Scosa in one team. I got. We got to see that. That would be unbelievable. Lance, Lance, if you were. Let's say you're trying to win 20, 26 tour, making a comeback. You look at this route, like, what's your first thought? Like, are you excit. Do you like it? Do you not like it? Do you need to see more.
- [20:24]
B
No, I mean, I, I again, just a little bit that I'm. That I know are starting to learn here. I mean, I think you just kind of sum it up right. If, if, if you go from 48, 000 total meters avert last year to 54 and that's already telling. That's enough. I mean, right? I mean, look, if I were, if I could have my pick, you. You'd have longer time. You'd go back old school. But that's not happening, right? We're not going back to 50, 60 kilometer team time trials or 50 kilometer individual time trials times two. That, that'.
- [21:02]
C
Big.
- [21:02]
B
Plenty hard. Best man. Best man's gonna win here.
- [21:05]
A
Right.
- [21:06]
B
And so I would. Thank God I don't have to go do these things anymore. But I would be looking at this, saying, yeah, no problem.
- [21:18]
C
And Jan, you know what stuck out to me is first individual time trial, stage 16.
- [21:22]
A
Yeah.
- [21:23]
C
Because we've had it in the, we've had one in the first week quite a lot for most of these duels between Pagacha and Vinegard. But if you're someone like Remco, that's a huge disadvantage. Right.
- [21:33]
A
It's not a good, it's not a good course for Remco. Yeah. And only 26 kilometers of which, by the way, the first 10 kilometers are uphill.
- [21:44]
C
So, so not even fair.
- [21:46]
A
It's, it's a GC. That's a GC day. You know, by stage 16, you know, that's, that's just the GC guys who are going to be in the front and time trial specialists have, are absolutely not at an advantage there. Yeah, I was surprised.
- [21:59]
B
Did you guys watch the presentation? Was it. I'm assuming there was some sort of live feed or, or, or.
- [22:05]
C
No, you can watch it. I think it's at like three in the morning where I am. Did you watch Johan?
- [22:11]
A
No, I was on the bike.
- [22:13]
C
Okay. We've been exposed.
- [22:16]
B
Maybe Johan is the one making it. Well, I'm curious because. And there it doesn't, it doesn't really provide much here on the website, the Tour's official website. What did they do with the finish in Paris? Are we.
- [22:34]
C
Yeah.
- [22:34]
B
Are we going back to the traditional laps on the Champs Elysees? Are we going to stick? So, so the circuits up Montmartre.
- [22:42]
A
Yeah, three times. Three times up. The only change is that to give a chance to some of the stronger sprinters this time. The last time they go up Montmartre is 15k from, from the finish, not 6k. Like, like like this year. So it could potentially be, you know, I don't know. It's, I don't think it's going to matter much because those circuits are hard. Sprinters are going to interrupt, especially if, you know, if we see the same thing. Like if Bogachar is in yellow, wants to win in Paris, you know, he's going to go and yeah, there's four or five riders who can follow. So no sprinters, but 15k from the finish. Now, other than that, it's the same. Back to my Martra.
- [23:22]
C
Yeah.
- [23:22]
B
I love how the Tour website just has it, you know, on each of these days, if they don't have the profile on here, all it says is the length of the stage and the type of stage. So obviously the day before, which you talked about Johan, is the hardest stage. They, they have that listed as a mountain stage. The next day into Paris, they just have it listed as a flat stage. Oh, wow. That, that, yeah, that's why I had the question. I was like, oh, maybe we went back.
- [23:48]
C
Yeah, well, that is when they say these flat stages, that tells us right there, you can't pencil those in as sprint stages. Because I kind of like this idea of, of tooling with the circuit a little bit year to year, Johan, where it's, I guess it will technically be a little bit easier because it's 15k out. Still probably won't be that easy. But do you guys miss the, do you miss the traditional finish? I, I, I don't.
- [24:11]
A
I did.
- [24:11]
C
I think I was over that. But a lot of people liked it.
- [24:16]
A
I think it was a great show last. I mean, we all, we all thought.
- [24:21]
B
That in real time.
- [24:22]
A
Yeah, initially, Initially I said, yeah.
- [24:26]
B
Three or four months later, no, we.
- [24:28]
A
I think it's good, I think it's nice.
- [24:30]
B
It was fantastic.
- [24:31]
A
Yeah.
- [24:31]
B
I don't know what they'll do with the time stoppages and the, that was really the, the biggest head.
- [24:37]
C
Yeah.
- [24:38]
B
But the, the spectacle I thought was 10 out of 10.
- [24:42]
A
Yeah, I agree.
- [24:44]
C
Is that the first time, is that the only time Pagacha has been dropped in since 2023, that stage? It might be, actually. Can you think of anything, Johan?
- [24:56]
A
It's not, I mean, it's not really getting dropped. I mean, getting dropped. He got dropped. He's been fighting for 21 days and, and Vanart obviously had done his job.
- [25:07]
C
But he was focusing on his gloss over that part. Yeah, yeah, that Van Art was.
- [25:11]
A
But hey, listen, Vanart is one of the very few who was able to draw distance. Bogachar In. In the last two years, if not the only one.
- [25:21]
C
Yeah, yeah. Since. Maybe since the stage where Pugacha fell apart.
- [25:27]
A
Yeah.
- [25:28]
C
In the Alps. Right. Wow. So did you guys. I think we've implied it, but we go Pyrenees first, Alps second with the Alsace and Jura and Matthews massive central in the middle there. So. But the last eight stages, six of them are GC days and that's if you assume that they neutralize the time on the final stage. If they don't, the last seven of eight stages could be GC days. That's. That puts a lot of importance on stage 14 onwards. That's intense.
- [25:59]
B
Look, look. What do they get? They have to do that. Now we know what happens. Right.
- [26:05]
C
That.
- [26:06]
B
That either makes it incredibly exciting or wildly predictable. If Poga charge, the guy that we've seen the last several years, you know, then we're in for a lot of tempo and control and questioning other teams tactics. But. But if there's a world where he struggles, well then. Then you open the race opens up and it's incredibly dynamic and we all think back to this day and think about how brilliant they were to design it this way. Now that's why they have the race and who knows? I mean, I think we could all guess how he's going to show up and perform, but the potential is there to. To make it really explosive.
- [26:50]
A
Yeah.
- [26:50]
C
Even if what's going to happen too is. I haven't listened to. I haven't consumed media about this yet, but I guarantee you what people are going to say and what's going to happen during the race is they're going to wheel out the old horse of. Oh, Pagacha is not good. In the third week of Grand Tours, Johan, he's. Look at him. Last year at the Tour he was. He was suffering through that final week. He couldn't even Dr. Jonas. So you're gonna get like, that's not true, by the way. He had a 4 1/2 minute lead going into the last week and his knee was hurt. Of course he wasn't going to. Going to attack, but when he needs to, he's a killer in the final week. But this allows people to have that narrative and that hope through the race. And I guarantee you we're going to be bombarded by that. We're probably going to say it on the show next year.
- [27:32]
B
No, we're not going to say that. But what I will say. Let me just warn the listener.
- [27:37]
A
Right.
- [27:37]
B
No matter what you go and read, this is. I'm. I'm being Serious here.
- [27:42]
A
Right.
- [27:43]
B
No matter what you go and read, I don't care where you read it. Most likely, if not, almost certainly whoever wrote that article has no clue what they're talking about. Let me just tell you, right? They're just sitting there bored. They're little, Little keyboard warriors. They're gonna make this stuff up. They don't know a breakaway from a baguette. They never been there, and they never been in the trenches. They never. They don't. They don't know what it is. So don't listen to that.
- [28:10]
A
Yeah, no, and I mean, it's. It's every. Every year, I mean, for as long as I can remember lines, you know, every time the. The. The route came out, come out and, you know, it's good for climbers. Oh, you know, back in your days. Oh, you know, it's. It's. It's for climbers. So are you. Are you guys okay? I said, well, last time I checked, Armstrong was a pretty good climber.
- [28:31]
C
Yeah.
- [28:32]
A
You know, no, but, you know, the.
- [28:34]
B
Last time I checked, he was the best cl.
- [28:39]
C
But it's a really. It's a really good point, because working in, when I used to work inside the system, the media system, it is like this. It's almost a brainwashing of media members where it's like, well, like, Lance isn't a good climber. It's like he's the best climber in the race. Like, what are we talking about? It's the same thing with Pagacha. People say the same stuff. It's like, oh, I don't know. That's a hard climb. That's not good for him. It's same thing, what you said. Like, you said it about Remco. Like, it's a bad route for him, but to be the best, like, to win a Tour, every route's got to be good for you. Like, you can't. Like there's no route they could design that's bad for Bagacher. Like, once you're at that level where you can win the Tour, there's no route that can stop you.
- [29:21]
A
No, for sure, I guess.
- [29:23]
C
Unless it was 21 sprint stages and time bonuses decided the race. That would be the one.
- [29:26]
B
Look, I mean, if you're. If you're. Taday, you're. You're. By the way, was he there? Do we know if he was in?
- [29:32]
A
No, no, no, no, no. Nobody at the Stars were there.
- [29:36]
B
Okay, good. Good for them. He's licking his chops. Yeah, he's looking at this, going, oh, baby, it's time to eat. But I mean, really, this is.
- [29:49]
A
If you look. If you look at the situation, guys, you know, like, okay, the favorite as obviously, it's the same guy. Huge favorite is Pugachar. Huge favorite for second is Jonas. You know, as I said, these two are way above everybody else. And then who else? I mean, do you. Do you remember. Do you guys remember who was third in the tour?
- [30:12]
C
It was Florian Lipowitz. I think about it every day. My favorite writer. But yeah, that's. That's a good point. Nobody remembers that. And he's not. Is he even gonna be at this race, Johan?
- [30:21]
A
I think so. I think so. But, you know, I mean, it's Fort Ford, for example. Ford was Oscar. Only fifth was Felix Gar. I mean, none of those guys are gonna even come close to. And Jonas. And then the really good news for Jonas and the bad for. For Pogacha and the. And the bad news for the other guys is if we say Pogacha is number one, Jonas number two in Grand Tours, number three and four are probably on Bogachar's team. Well, and that's Del Toro and Almeida.
- [30:54]
B
But hold on. I mean, there is going to be a point in time where somebody. Year over year, whether that's. It could be Oscar Onlay. It could be. It could be any of these guys year over year, they make a massive improvement. That's what athletes do. And the flip side of that is. And look, I think it's. Tade is not going to make a massive improvement.
- [31:18]
C
He's.
- [31:19]
B
He might get a little better, but we're seeing the best of the best of his lifetime, which is the best of all time. Jonas is. Is.
- [31:28]
C
Is.
- [31:29]
B
We're seeing the best of Jonas and probably starting to. To. To, you know, to see a decline.
- [31:35]
C
You.
- [31:36]
B
You. But you could have a. One of these outliers that really has one of these off seasons or one of these. These shifts in his career where he's just a lot better. And who knows, right? Today might, at some point, the fuel in the tank runs out and.
- [31:51]
A
And it's going to happen at some point for sure.
- [31:53]
B
Of course it is. Now we just. We're guessing when that might be, but. And we'd spend a lot of time guessing this, right? Guys are starting younger. The careers are starting younger. They're so much better, so much younger. Does that. Does that mean that they then start to decline earlier in life? We don't know.
- [32:12]
C
Right.
- [32:13]
B
And so. But if. If, if you could imagine in a world where, you know, today is a Few percentage points off. And a kid like Onley, all of a sudden is this, this guy that had a hell of a tour, and it, It. It ignited something within him. And I don't know, but so we can hope.
- [32:30]
A
Yeah, I think. I think. I think the, The. The. The guy who will challenge today is not up there yet. It's not Oscar only. It's not Felix Gal. It's not Lipovich. It's, you know, I don't know. Let's say it's Paul. Says us, maybe, you know.
- [32:47]
C
Yeah, Paul, Paul. Paul is. He's, he's pretty, Pretty good writer, Johan. But I think Del Toro. Del Toro, to me, you take the, like, the guy wipes out at the Giro, like, wow, what a. What a mess up, like, throws away Grand Tour, and then he comes back and has an amazing season. Like, the last half of his season. He blew me away. I think that's the guy that is eventually going to challenge him. The problem is they're on the same team. That's an issue.
- [33:14]
A
Well, for the moment, they can still. They can still live together. That's. There's gonna become a point, but I think probably that by the time that Del Toro gets to that point, it's maybe going to be time for today. Who said to say, okay, guys, I'm. I'm taking it easy.
- [33:31]
C
I'm.
- [33:31]
A
I'm out of here?
- [33:32]
C
Yeah, but what stops, actually, most people, like Lance did do that, just walked away after winning. But most of these guys that win a lot of Grant, a lot of Tours, Grand Tours, it's injuries. Think of Chris Froome like he was maybe declining, then he has to crash, he doesn't win, and he can't get back. Same thing with your favorite, both your guys. Best friend, Alberto Contador, like, remember, he had. He just. He started to get the crash bug, and then he's really hurt, like, really bad crashes, and he just isn't the same after that. I think eventually, I'm not wishing it upon him, but eventually that's probably what will happen. That just happens to a lot of athletes. You get older, you get hurt, you can't train as hard, you can't come back.
- [34:12]
A
Accidents is one thing. I think in Bogachar's case. Listen, and we hope he doesn't happen crash or injury, but I think it's mental burnout. It's just not being able to deal anymore with all the stress. And everybody's chasing you and everybody wants a piece of you.
- [34:27]
C
What about Cavendish, though?
- [34:29]
A
When LANCE Retired in 2005, physically, I mean, he was probably stronger than ever. 2004, 2005, he was at the strongest in the Tour, but it was just enough. You just can't deal with it anymore. And I can see signs of that already now in Pogacar at this age. So, I mean, Lance, you were Pogachar's age when you won your first Tour.
- [34:51]
C
That's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy.
- [34:53]
B
Well. Well, yeah, I'm with you, Johan. I mean, that's. And I just caught a little bit of this reading the press about some of the races towards the end of the season where, you know, for, for whatever reason, right, The, the, the public, the fans on the side of the road have just sort of. Have just kind of turned against him, right? For and for. No, and look, I've been there, right? And I, I. The little bit that I read about it, I actually thought even more about it. You know, I gave them a reason to turn. He hasn't given them a reason other than just dominating, right? It doesn't matter, right? If, if they're turning against you because they see smoke and fire like they did in my case, it's the same as them turning it against you because they're sick of you winning. It doesn't matter. They're saying the same on the side of the road, day in, day out. I can tell you, you still get the job done. No part of me and no part of him will say, you know what? I'm gonna sit up today. He's not gonna do that. He's gonna go win. But at the end of the day and at the end of the Tour and at the end of the season, you're going to go, how much do I want to do this? Right? Because my, My brain is wired in my psyche. My, My whole athlete's mindset is to wire is wired to win. I don't care what anybody says, but I can also go do something else or not do this once my job is done. I feel for him there. I have a ton of empathy for him there. I. Then, and maybe the off season is this sort of reset. We're going to find out come the spring. We will certainly find out come July. But there is nobody that has a robotic brain that's just like, I can't hear anything. This doesn't affect me. It does affect you.
- [36:51]
C
Yeah.
- [36:52]
B
And. And I've also been in a similar position where you're just, you're just drubbing people day in, day out, year in, year out, and you're kind of going all Right. I did it like you want me to keep beating people like, it, it, it, it starts. This, this sounds almost pathetic. I mean, it just kind of gets old.
- [37:14]
A
Yeah.
- [37:16]
C
And this is a side gig, though. He does have a full time job of trying to win classics. Yeah, got that.
- [37:23]
A
Yeah.
- [37:25]
B
Not the same. It's not that, that's not, that is the side hustle, but that's not nearly as. No.
- [37:33]
A
Yeah, well, I, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna predict Spencer and Lance that, you know, Bogachar is racing till 2028 and that's it.
- [37:42]
C
He's got to win the Olympics.
- [37:43]
A
He's, he has four more things to win. You know, we said it in the, in the podcast. He has Milan San Remo. He just needs to show up. And then the Olympic Games and after that it's done. And then he's won everything there is to win.
- [38:02]
C
If only we could get that. Just gotta make sure that course is designed well enough at the Olympics for Pugach.
- [38:08]
B
I have a little, you know, a little birdie has, has given me a little sneak peek of LA28 that. No, nobody listening. And Taday Pogaar does not need to worry about this, about it being too easy. If anybody's ever been to Los Angeles, just look around. There's a lot of mountains there. The total vert will be staggering.
- [38:35]
C
Yeah, yeah, but you're not, you're not going to do the Dana Point criterium course. Just do his 90 minute crit before we go.
- [38:42]
B
Why are we starting? The start might not be far from Dana Point. So don't, don't, don't rag on Dana Point too much.
- [38:47]
A
All right?
- [38:48]
C
That's my, that's man, that's my arena. The Dana Point criteria.
- [38:51]
B
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- [41:27]
A
Oh, George.
- [41:28]
B
George who by the way, was at the presentation and you know. What time is it in Paris? It's six o'. Clock.
- [41:36]
C
Let me guess, it's fancy dinner time.
- [41:38]
B
He's on the top of swanky hotel, sipping champagne. G, we miss you. But I, I do, I do want Johan to answer that question. Also. I'm curious and I'm. And I'm always just kind of humbled and excited to know that if anybody's ever ridden Alpes, they list the winners on each of the switchbacks and yours truly still has his name on there, which is kind of cool. I guess for this one they're gonna have to have back to back, right? You're gonna have the. Yeah, you're gonna. Because you have the winner and the year. Right? And imagine, I mean, maybe, maybe it's.
- [42:20]
C
It might be the same person.
- [42:21]
B
So then it says, you know, 26. 26. But you're gonna have, you're gonna have two different signs.
- [42:30]
A
Yeah, it's a different, it's a different approach, it's a different way of climbing up the west. So for the first, they do the. They do the switchbacks and then the last. The last day they come from another side.
- [42:42]
B
Okay, so then finish on top. That answers our sign question. All right, I'm gonna go jump on this thing. You guys keep jamming. You don't need me.
- [42:49]
C
All right, we'll see you. Thank you so much.
- [42:51]
A
Thanks, man.
- [42:51]
B
Hey, this has been fun, George. We miss you, sir. Bradley. We miss you, sir. Bradley's out promoting his book. Is the book out yet, Johan?
- [43:00]
A
On the 23rd. So today. Today, actually, today it comes out.
- [43:04]
B
That's, you know, that's a good day to have it dropped. Actually, I, I caught a snippet. Johan, you actually sent me the snippet. Holy moly, folks, I. Yeah, let me.
- [43:14]
A
Tell you happy story.
- [43:15]
B
This is a. This is an incredibly heavy story. I thought I knew the story. Yeah, well, I didn't know anything about this story. I mean, you wanna, I mean, sit down. Let me just tell you. Sit down and, and, and, and sit in a quiet room. This is an incredibly heavy, dark story. And so good for him, right? A lot of, A lot of love and respect and admiration for him. This is. This is not what I. I thought I knew it. I didn't know it. This is dark, depressing, hard to read, frankly, and incredibly courageous. I'm gonna say that again. Incredibly courageous to put these words down on paper. Unbelievable.
- [44:08]
A
Sure.
- [44:08]
C
Yeah.
- [44:08]
B
And so, so, Bradley, I love you. We all love you. Incredibly proud of you. And so we did not plan to talk about this. I can't remember how it came up, but it's. It's real.
- [44:21]
A
This.
- [44:21]
B
This is real. I mean, this hit you right between the ice. All right? And so you will look at yourself in the mirror differently. You'll look at your children and your family and your friends and your community and your legacy differently. All of you. Especially you, sir. Bradley. All right, I'm out of here. Thanks, guys.
- [44:40]
C
See you.
- [44:41]
A
Okay. Okay, Spencer, what do we have to talk about? Let's.
- [44:50]
C
Let's dive into this. Alp D. Well, we do have a show tomorrow. A show where we'll be answering questions live from members. If you want to be a member, it's in the show notes. If you are a member, I'll send you an email before the show. It's all. We're also just in the members portal, but you can just click on it, go into YouTube. You can ask us questions in our Q A show. But I have a cue for you, Johan. Yeah. Why? What is going on with the two times up? Alp d' Huez is It just a set. We haven't been, what, since 2015? We've only. So in the last 10 years we've been three times. Is this just like a celebration of Optoz? Is it so hard logistically to make it happen? They're like, hey, let's just.
- [45:27]
A
I've heard Prudhomme explain the reason. I mean, if I. If I remember correctly, the reason why is that first of all, they wanted to keep the suspense until the very end, make it really unpredictable or at least, you know, not know for sure who's going to win until the very last moment. So that's why they did this super hard stage, which is stage 20. That's. It's, you know, 171 kilometers. It's the hardest stage, more than 5,000 meters of climbing of the whole tour. There's. There's no other stages above 5,000. And they do call the Croix Fair, which is a huge climb called the Telegraph, Call de Galibier and then call the Saren and then go to up the west on another side. So they wanted to have that. And I'm gonna guess that if they, if they come from that side. So crowd affair, Telegraph, Caliper and Sarin, the only way to get to Alpe Duos is from the backside. And then Prudhomme said, well, you know, if we would have. Do. If we would do that, the fans would go crazy to not have the stage.
- [46:36]
C
Okay. Yeah.
- [46:37]
A
On the traditional switchback. So that's why they did the short stage on up the west, you know, one 128 kilometers the day before. That's the reason why they did it.
- [46:50]
C
Yeah, that's a. That is interesting. That's a good reason, I assume. Will they stay in the same hotel rooms? That would make it easier, right? You finish a stage, then you go to the start the next morning, then you just go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So that's. If you're a logistic logistics heads out there will appreciate that thinking, but that. Is this the same. You remember when they did the double duets in a single stage? Christophe Reblon one, if I remember correctly, caught TJ Vanguarden and they went up and they descended. Is this the. The side they descended? Yeah, yeah, it is.
- [47:27]
A
Yeah.
- [47:28]
C
And have they done this before in the tour or do in the tour?
- [47:31]
A
No, in the tour, in the Dauphine. They've done it in the past.
- [47:36]
C
Was that stage or was that 2017?
- [47:39]
A
2017 and 2013?
- [47:42]
C
Do you remember who won that stage in 2017? Wait, it's gonna blow Your mind.
- [47:50]
A
Dolphin. I mean, no idea.
- [47:56]
C
This is like peak Team Sky. Richie Port, Chris Froome. Richie Port had gone to bmc. He was the big challenger. Peter Kenya. Ken Kenya.
- [48:05]
A
Oh, wow.
- [48:06]
C
Remember him? Yeah, he was like a really big talent. Huge talent. Yeah, I. Yeah, this might have been the biggest race he won. He was from Isle of Man, I believe.
- [48:17]
A
He's from Isle of Man.
- [48:17]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Just like Mark Cavendish. Yeah. Huge talent. Wow. I had forgotten he won that stage also. You guys were 2009 Barcelona. I remember it was super rainy. Remember who won that stage. He's a. He's just had a big promotion to the World Tour. Tour Hushaft won that stage.
- [48:39]
A
Oh, wow.
- [48:40]
C
Yeah, he was like. He was like my favorite writer at the time. I don't know why, but I remember that stage so well. But we don't have to talk about too. That was kind of the big question I had about up to us. But that makes sense why they're. Why they're doing it. Do you think this is going to be a good race to watch? Like we kind of talked about racing it with Lance, but as a spectator, as someone covering it, like we're going to be doing well. We have a good time.
- [49:05]
A
The Tour is always nice to watch. Spencer. It's. It's the Tour. It's, you know, it's. That's the magic of the Tour de France. You know, no matter how the course is just. It's always full gas. There's so much at stake in every single stage that it's for sure. Yeah, I, yeah, it's going to be nice to watch. I'm pretty, pretty convinced of that.
- [49:25]
C
I. I like the start. I like that they're mixing the pot with the start. I think that's going to be fun. I like that we then settle into the sprint stages as opposed to just starting with the sprint stages. I think that second week can tend to be a little bit of a. I don't want to say a chore can just kind of get monotonous. But the, the ends, the butt ends of the race are so hard. I think will be a nice rhythm in the middle. You have some tough, messy central stages. Who do you think is going to be the premier sprinter at this race? Gc, we probably know. And then who's the breakout young writer? If you'd have picked three people for that.
- [50:04]
A
I mean, we don't know who's going to participate, but you know, premier sprinters, in my opinion, it's Philipson and Merlin. I think those two are the fastest guys. Although Jonathan Milan has won the green jersey. Oh, I saw a report somewhere and then afterwards I saw it was corrected. But there's, there was a rumor initially that every flat stage would have two intermediate sprints.
- [50:30]
C
Oh.
- [50:31]
A
Which was super important for, you know, the green jersey. But then afterwards I saw that. Yeah, it was not confirmed or anything, but yeah, I mean, I think the same guys as always. You know, it's, it's. I think that the best Grand Tour sprinter is Philipson. There's no doubt about that. I mean in Grand Tours he's just on another level.
- [50:55]
C
He's. It's almost unbelievable how much higher of a level because he's not, not in non Grand Tours. They're all good.
- [51:02]
A
Right.
- [51:03]
C
Tim earlier might be better than Philipson, but then they get to Grand Tours and Phillipson is so much better than everybody else.
- [51:09]
A
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, of course there's also going to come a time where that's not the case anymore.
- [51:14]
C
Well, and I was going back through that changes faster than you think was.
- [51:17]
A
It does, it does. If you look, for example, look at, look at two guys who were almost unbeatable and don't have a fraction of a chance. Jacobsen and the Grune Vegan. And they were, they were like beasts in sprints. Right. And if you look at them now, I mean they're, we don't, we don't even mention them anymore. They're not in the top five. We, we. When we talk about sprinters, they're not there.
- [51:44]
C
And they were, I mean, Sam Bennett was almost unbeatable, but in 2020 and now he doesn't have a contract, doesn't have a team. Yeah, yeah. Was that 2020 or 2021?
- [51:55]
A
I think it's 2021.
- [51:57]
C
Probably. He won green in one of those years.
- [52:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And four stages.
- [52:02]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he wins green in 2020 and then it, it just, it's shocking. You go back to stages, tours that you think were not that long ago in the sprint fields look completely different. Like Grunebag and he, Grune Vegan did win a stage in 2024. But yeah, I do wonder if we'll look back at that as this kind of last gasp. I mean he's, maybe he's energized on the new team on the rose. What is it? Rosebud Rockets?
- [52:28]
A
No, it's, it's Uni Unibet Rose. Unibet Rose. Yeah.
- [52:35]
C
But I am curious to see if Phillipson can, can keep this up in terms of gc. I assume you think Tada. Pagacha probably keeps it.
- [52:43]
A
Yeah, I mean without, without any, you know, unforeseen situation. There's, there's nobody close.
- [52:49]
C
And this would be, let's say he wins. It would be number five. Correct.
- [52:53]
A
Would it be his fifth Tour de France? Yeah.
- [52:56]
C
And do you think, do you think there's any. Maybe he doesn't care. Do you think he would try to go for seven? Is that a goal for him?
- [53:04]
A
I don't think so.
- [53:06]
C
No. I think kind of cool.
- [53:09]
A
But I think, I think he, I think he just wants to win every single race there is available of, of importance. As I said, you know, these four, you know, these four that are left. He's won the Tour four times already. Okay, well if he wins five, okay, great. You know, he's there. He's up there with Marks and Indurian and, you know, and who else is there? Ankatil. And then there's one guy who won seven, you know, that's he's. And he's for sure not going to win seven in a row or five in a row. You know, Miguel in the. Ryan won five in a row. Lance won seven in a row. So that's already not attainable anymore. But you know, he's getting so much else.
- [53:51]
C
But that's what makes him so unusual is you rarely see someone win a cluster, have an interruption and win the cluster again. It's almost, you know, esque in a way.
- [54:01]
A
Yeah, I mean it was like he won his first Tours and then it was two times Jonas. And it was like, okay, is this the end of. Yeah. Today's Tour de France series? Right. And no, no, he came back and is dominating now.
- [54:14]
C
Yeah, it's, it's very unusual. And it's. What's funny when we talk about the dominance, this boring dominance, it's like, well, it actually does have setbacks and I think that's what makes him interesting as a champion because he's so dominant. So good. And then he'll have setbacks and he comes back better. Like we were talking.
- [54:31]
A
I'll give a report about, I mean, mid December. Spencer, I'll check in with the status because I'm going with friends. We're going three, four days to the south of Spain and they're usually always there at that time. So we'll for sure run into them in UAE and Pogachia on training. I'll give you an update then to see, to let you know how he is. But I can tell you already now he's going to be Flying, I think.
- [55:03]
C
You did you ride with him in the off season before the 2024?
- [55:06]
A
No, I did. I didn't ride with him. I was riding my, minding my own business on a, on what I considered a climb. And they just flew by me like eight, eight UAE guys. Like, oh, yeah. So I'm already mentally ready for that to happen again.
- [55:26]
C
That was, that was the difference. That's when he turned everything around, is that ride that built his. And so, but who do you think is going to be the breakout young star from this tour? If you had to pick a writer, I mean, is Paul Seychas going to be there? Is he too young?
- [55:50]
A
It would be his first Grand Tour. Right? He's not, he hasn't done a Grand Tour yet. I would not send him to the Tour yet.
- [55:55]
C
I mean, how old is he? Right? I know. Don't.
- [55:57]
A
He's 19. He's 19 years old. She was junior last year. Spencer. I would not send him to the Tour. I don't think. I, you know, I, I, I was listening to an interview of a, a very smart, you know. How do you say that? Like a very intelligent old director. Cyril Gimar.
- [56:24]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:25]
A
He was director of Finon and Lamont and, you know, and many other guys. And he gave an interview and I agree with him. He says, you know, Paul says doesn't have to go to the Tour to learn. He has to go when the, when he's a big talent and he goes, it's to win, it's not to learn, you know. And it happened, it happened a lot, you know, with really big talents.
- [56:52]
C
Like, like Pagachar did that, won his first Tour.
- [56:56]
A
He know he, no one. Finon won his first Tour. Lamont not didn't win his first Tour.
- [57:04]
C
But Bernal won his second Tour. But he was already pretty good in that first Tour.
- [57:08]
A
Eddie Merckx won his first Tour.
- [57:10]
C
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, actually. That is how a lot of big stars win their first Tour, which you would not. You would think there's some sort of learning curve.
- [57:19]
A
Yeah. But it's, you know, you can learn in the two in the Giro and in the Vuelta, you know.
- [57:24]
C
Well, in a lot of big stars, their first Grand Tour win is the Tour. You don't, it's actually rare where you see someone building up through the other Grand Tours. That's why it's good that Del Toro didn't win the Giro. That means he's going to win the Tour. I do think I. Because he actually just turned 19, like, just recently. So he'll. He would be 19 at the tour next year. Yeah, I think that's too young. I wouldn't do it. Maybe that's old school. Maybe we're stuck in old school thinking.
- [57:52]
A
Well, you know, he's on a French team. You know, they probably want to push that. But, you know, I've heard that decathlon wants to get away from the French mentality or identity of the team. You know, I've actually heard that, you know, writers who, you know, who. Who signed there, who went there, have been explicitly told not to learn French.
- [58:21]
C
Interesting.
- [58:22]
A
I did team management.
- [58:25]
C
That's such a strange direct.
- [58:27]
A
It's. No, it's. It's true.
- [58:28]
C
I was surprised. I don't even want you to know it.
- [58:30]
A
It's funny not to learn because every. All the meetings will be done in English and it's going to be a completely different identity and. Yeah, so.
- [58:40]
C
Yeah, well. Yeah. Yeah. I. I mean, I love France. My dad grew up in France. It's. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a friend of France. But I actually do think there's something to be said for that, that stepping outside, like, forcing yourself into the international community is good from. From a performance standpoint.
- [58:59]
A
Oh, yeah. And in cycling, man, it's cycling. Especially cycling, because, you know, I mean, lots of French teams, they've always been comfortable because the. The Tour de France is the most important race in the world, and they kind of have a guaranteed spot and it's all about France and, you know, and. And they get comfortable and they, you know, they lose the breakaway kind of speaking, you know, they. The whole. Everybody else moves faster and they just get. Keep stuck in. In the French comfortable mentality, is it?
- [59:37]
C
Totally different ecosystem, right?
- [59:38]
A
Yeah.
- [59:39]
C
You can move in slow motion. There's no. There's no fight or flight, basically. Yeah, well, we're going to get invited the Tour, so who cares? And then it does. I think it does hold you back. It's super interesting. I would love to do a deep dive on what exactly is going on there. I think Paul Seychelles is amazing. I do think they shouldn't take him if he doesn't go. Do you think del Toro goes or. No, dude, he's doing this year.
- [60:00]
A
I think they're going to give del Toro the. The complete leadership in the Giro, you know?
- [60:05]
C
Yeah.
- [60:07]
A
Yeah. I mean, the thing is also. I mean, this is also. This is also a problem, obviously, when. When you have a strong team. Obviously now, you know, all the teams have 30 riders, but I Remember back in the days, you know, we were. We had 21, 22 riders. If you want to say, if you want to go to another Grand Tour with a leader, it's not easy, man, to be.
- [60:30]
C
To.
- [60:31]
A
To surround that other leader with a strong team that then also some of those guys need to be performant in the Tour de France, especially the Giro. You know, if you have. I remember when we had Savoldelli on, on the team, he had won the Giro already once. And then in 2005, I think in 2005, yeah, he went to the Giro as the leader and, and with the. With the objective to win, and he won. But I was not in a position to really send a very strong team. The team was decent, but not definitely not up to the standards of having a Grand Tour candidate winner.
- [61:12]
C
You know, if there's any team that's up for it, I think uae.
- [61:15]
A
Oh yeah.
- [61:15]
C
Can handle it. Right, Peel up. Who knows how they'll ride though. That's. That's a story for another day, though. Anything else on this Tour, and if we forgot anything, we'll be back tomorrow, same time, same place.
- [61:26]
A
We'll be back tomorrow with the Move plus. No, I think we've covered most of it. Spencer.
- [61:31]
C
Yeah, I thought. I think it's an interesting route. I kind of thought they would, you know, they have to shift geographies. They can't just go to the same places all the time. I think they've done really well with, you know, the constraints they have on their geographical constraints and the foreign start. I think it's great that they can ride straight into France. That's going to be. It works out perfectly. I'm excited for that opening summit finish on Stage six and hopefully it's a good race. As you said, it's always a nice race. It's always nice to watch the Tour.
- [62:01]
A
Okay.
- [62:02]
C
All right. Talk to you later, Johan.
- [62:04]
A
I'll see you tomorrow. Okay, thank you.
- [62:06]
C
Bye.