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Tour de France Stage 5 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show
00:37:52
Johan Bruyneel and Sir Bradley Wiggins peel back the curtain on the tactics, strategy, and pivotal moments that shaped Stage 5 of the 2025 Tour de France, offering sharp analysis and insider perspective you won’t hear anywhere else....
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- [00:00]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
We've seen how, how much Giannis has been riding in the front of the peloton, if not on the front at times. And it, you know, they do take it, they do take their toll. There's not. What. There's not been one easy stage in this Tour de France yet. No. We're only five days in. And the next two days. Johan. The next two days, Johan.
- [00:17]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, yeah.
- [00:17]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Just as bad. Yeah, this has been. I can't remember a first week of a Tour de France like this for some time.
- [00:23]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [00:23]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I'm the 2012 Tour de France winner, Sir Bradley Wiggins.
- [00:27]
Johan Brunel
And I'm Johan Brunel. I directed my teams to N9 to the France victories. Welcome to the Sir Wiggo and Johan show, our daily show where we dive deep into the tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Okay, here we are again, the Sir Wiggle and Johan show, presented by Ketone IQ. Like every day, Bradley. We're talking about stage five, the individual time trial. 33 kilometers, first big appointment of the Tour. I would say the race of the truth. What's your. If you have to pick one one element, what's your takeaway of today?
- [01:05]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
My takeaway from today is the sheer. The ride from Tadi Pagacha. You know, especially after the Doan where we questioned whether Younis would beat him today. But today's really made a strong claim today for the next two and a half weeks and how. I was watching it this morning, Johan. I was watching it with my NordVPN, which of course is our sponsor of our show today. With NordVPN, you can safely access your favorite streams and content from home, no matter where you go. Easily switch your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries. Easy to use Connect with one click or enable Auto Connect for zero click protection. Seven and a half thousand plus servers in 118 countries. You can change your virtual location easy, amazing speed. NordVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there. One NordVPN account can be used in 10 devices and supports every major platform. Windows, Android, iOS and Mac OS. Get your exclusive NordVPN deal here at www.nordvpn.com forward/themove. It's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Link is in the episode show notes.
- [02:18]
Johan Brunel
Okay, Brad, as we said in the time trial, I agree with you. Performance was outstanding. Before we go into a little bit of details of the performances, I would like to talk a little bit about the equipment that was used. You know, this is one of the showcases of cycling, right? The industry, all the big brands, they, they provide and for sure, from the Tour de France, their best equipment. Some prototypes, some new. Did you see something special today? You know, we, we saw, for example, chainrings have increased tremendously. Remco was on a 64 chainring with 165 cranks. Today was on a 160 cranks with a 62. And Jonas had a huge chain ring, 68, 160 cranks. And then also Primos was on a 68 chainring. Other than that, what did you see today? Anything that came to your attention in terms of equipment?
- [03:17]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Well, in terms of equipment, the one that surprised me the most was Kevin, the Frenchman, Kevin Vasquen, who finished fourth today. Yeah, and you know, I think it's fair to say, you know, the disadvantage he's at on one of the smaller French teams with the resources they have for aerodynamics, wind chamber, wind tunnel testing, you know, in terms of the, the financial backing that they have to really go to town on the aero stuff. I think he did one of the performances of the day. And I forget the last time we had two Frenchmen in the top 10 of a tour de France time trial. So it was a great ride for him and I think it's no surprise that he's being rumored to be moving on next year to the likes of Red Bull, potentially ineos. So he's a big talent. And fourth place today, that was a great ride from him. But other than that, you know, Remco, I think he, he was. Remco looked as class as ever today. You know, for someone so small to produce the speed he does and probably one of the most, probably the best time trial position I think I've ever seen in terms of aerodynamics and the, the efficiency of which he races at. But yeah, it was a class act. Again, class performance from Remco Tade. You know, I, I today probably looks like he's got the worst position and the worst setup of, of all the main guys. Eunice looked fantastic again with a big helmet, very, very low tuck position for, for someone of Jonas's ability, but just wasn't going fast enough. So it's really interesting. You have guys out there that look, look the part, but just aren't going as fast as you think. So it was, it was, it was a great day. And I think it's really, you know, there's so many different dynamics going on. You've got Pagacha who's staked his Claim now for another Tour de France win. Barring injury, barring crashes, he seems to have the strongest team. He's proved the last few days he's the strongest rider in terms of GC Remco. You know, I thought Remco did a fantastic job in refocusing after, you know, a disappointing few days. Got caught behind a few crashes, lost three seconds on that running yesterday. And to get the stage win today, that's going to do his morale, you know, wonder wonders. And so I think it's. Give us some, some good questions for.
- [05:37]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I agree with you on vocal land, that's, that's actually, if you think about it, you be on Arkea. And also, I mean, with all the respect for the brand, it's a historic brand, but, you know, Bianchi, in terms of time trial equipment is miles behind, certainly behind Cervelo, behind Specialized, behind all the big brands. Right. And so to, to. We, we all, we already knew he was on great form. He's now 13 GC, by the way, which is incredible, I can tell you, by the way, you know, you can think about rumors and speculations. Kevin Vaukelin is riding for INEOS next year. The deal done already several months ago. So I think that's going to be a big, big, big progression in his career. You know, as you guys talked about on, on the move, you know, it's surprising to see that a team like Decathlon with now that huge budget. I mean, I think they're going to be the third or the fourth biggest budget that they miss out on. Arguably, for the moment, the best stage racer of France. Right, that's, that's strange to see. But yeah, I mean, other than, other than that, I think we, we saw everything in terms of equipment, we saw everything in the Dauphine already. The only thing that I see that all these, I mean, you were, you were experienced with it at the end of your career. The shortest, the shorter cranks or everybody is now on 160, 165, some even on 155 cranks for the time trial. So obviously that's, you know, initially when, when, when, when this movement started, like two years ago, I had difficulty putting my head around it. But, you know, if you really think about it, it makes, it makes sense, you know. Yeah, especially because, you know, these guys go with a lot of cadence. For example, you, for example, when you did time trials, Bradley, I mean, we want to talk about a little bit after we talk about the stage, about your experience, but you had a Slower cadence. Especially when you won the tour. These guys have 9,500 RPM.
- [07:42]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah.
- [07:43]
Johan Brunel
In the time trials, but yeah, other than that, I think, you know, Remco wins the time trial 54 kilometers per hour. I think, I think he's about a minute faster than you predicted yesterday. I guess you said 38 minutes.
- [07:57]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
No, yeah, I said 38 minutes, but I said about 53, 54 kilometers an hour average speed. So, yeah, that was. It's pretty spot on there, but it was, yeah, Remco. I thought Remco did a great job. You know, I spoke about the time checks yesterday and how you can use those time checks. You know, Remco going down through that first time check, a couple of seconds down on a Feeney and he didn't panic. You know, he maintained his space. He was riding from A to B as fast as possible. And of course we saw how the wind affected the early start as compared to the wind changed the day to day.
- [08:33]
Johan Brunel
Sure, sure.
- [08:34]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
And we saw some of the speeds from Jorgense, Tade and Remco, particularly from. From. From time check three to the finish. I mean, in excess of 57 kilometers an hour.
- [08:44]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, just incredible. Yeah, yeah. No, but if you look, I mean, Remco. Remco wins Pogacha. The performance of the day, I think. Afini third. And then in my opinion, disappointing, disappointing performances of Mateo Jorgensen, 11th place, 120 down. Primus Roglich 120 down and Jonas 121 down. I think personally that Visma and Jonas, they were thinking what you said yesterday, that they were going to win the Tantra or at least that they would take yellow today. And you know, the contrary happened. So, you know, if you look now, GC Poga is in the lead. Remco in seconds, 42 seconds down. So that's obviously the, you know, the improvement of the day. Vocalin third, 59 seconds down. Jonas, 113 down. I mean, it's. If you, if you think about the situation right now, it's not a disaster, but I think, I mean, because everything can happen. You know, we still have two. Two weeks, a little bit over two weeks to go. But the mental blow today is I think is the biggest damage. Don't you think?
- [09:53]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, I mean, I think yesterday and today is a tough one to get his head round. I think more so today.
- [10:01]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [10:01]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Where do they go from here as a team? You know, I think it's easy to say, you know, where does Eunice go from here? But I think he has to use his Team more. They have to regroup as a team. You've got two guys there, there's a, there's a possibility to play a two pronged attack with Matteo Jorgensen. And now of course, Eunice. I still think Eunice will be the better rider in the second half of this Tour de France. On the longer climbs, the harder climbs, Eunice will get better. Yeah, there's still some question mark. So, you know, that would have took a lot out of Eunice the last few days. The high powers, the high, you know, numbers they were pushing on those shorter climbs yesterday. And, and you know, the amount of effort he used to stay close to Tacha. We saw, we spoke about it on this show yesterday. You know how Yunus was after the finish line yesterday, that's done some damage. And for a rider like Jonas, who's a threshold monster, that would have done some damage. And that, that paid, he paid for that today for sure. Tade can soak those efforts up. As we've seen. T. T can do anything. Yeah, if, if you, if you look.
- [11:01]
Johan Brunel
At them today, today after the finish, they were both dead. They gave everything, but as we said, y recovered extremely fast. Jonas looked completely dead. And then I saw a little clip of, of Grisha Nirman who was on the radio with, with Jonas straight after the finish. He said, yeah, congrats. You know, it took a lot out of us. It was the on the Limit he was saying to, but, you know, great job. So I, I think today both Jorgensen and Jonas paid for the efforts of yesterday. It's not to be underestimated. You know, it was extremely hard in the last 30K and, and those strong, violent efforts. I mean, the muscle damage, you don't recover from that, you know, overnight.
- [11:46]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
No, no. And he's made those efforts every day since the start of this Tour de France. We've seen how, how much Jonas has been riding in the front of the peloton, if not on the front at times. And it, you know, they do take it, they do take their toll. There's not. What, there's not been one easy stage in this Tour de France yet. No. We're only five days in. And the next two days. Johan. The next two days, Johan. Yeah, yeah, Just as bad. Yeah. This has been, I can'. Remember a first week of a Tour de France like this for some time.
- [12:12]
Johan Brunel
Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, speaking of, of, you know, taking a lot of energy out of the rider, the efforts of yesterday, today I want to talk about our other partner, our presenting sponsor, Ketone IQ as every day, as we know, almost all the teams are using ketones. Nowadays, almost every endurance athlete is using ketones. My personal preferred format is the 10 gram shot of Ketone IQ. High performance energy, 10 grams of ketones, a clean shot of energy and no sugar and no caffeine. A lot of studies have been done about the use and the effects of ketones and it's been scientifically been proven that ketones do actually boost athletic performance. In a placebo controlled study with trained athletes, Ketone IQ boosted average sprint power by 19%, peak power by 13%. It cut fatigue by 10% and spiked blood ketones five times in just 20 minutes. Very important for Tour de France riders. It's been proven that ketones also help with a faster recovery. Ketone iq as we know is a partner of Visma Lisa Bike and did a lot of studies with the University of Leuven to explore recovery and high altitude adaptation. Their key findings are and an improved blood flow, higher muscle oxygenation and better endurance and stamina. So go to ketone.com and enter the code the move 20 at checkout for 20% off. Okay, let's move on. We've talked about the results. You know, we saw Afini having the best split time for a very long time. Great time trialist. I actually picked him as a wild card in our show outcomes yesterday, just in case the weather would change. You know, you never know if, if the wind would have picked up a little bit more, Afini maybe had a chance. Tremendous time for others. By the way, European champion. There's something, however, I want to ask your opinion on Bradley today. We were like in doubt. Okay, who's going to be the best? Okay. We all thought and kind of knew that Remco would win the stage, right? And then it was, okay, who's going to be the better of the two today? Or Jonas or your Jonas? I remember last, no, two years ago, in that famous time trial that Jonas won in Solange. I did some checks like at the beginning, the first 500 meters. I think it always sets the tone how a rider leaves the ramp, even if it's a long time trial. And I remember back then, after 30 seconds, Jonas was already five seconds faster than today. And he kept that pace throughout the whole time crowd. Today I did the same check and after 25 seconds, Jonas had lost already two seconds on today. You know, it might seem a detail, but I think it sets the tone straight away. You could see that Pogacha are left with a lot of power. Do you think? I mean, I know you have to pace it for 33k, but do you think that the way they leave the ramp and the way they feel the power on the pedal straight away, does that have an effect on the overall result of the time clock?
- [15:38]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I think unknowingly that it does for certain riders. I was used to the track, so I would leave the start house and I would do the three second countdown as if I was coming out of a start gate on the track for an individual pursuit. It definitely sets the tone for how you're going to suffer psychologically, whether you contain that, if continue that effort through. We're only talking about the first 25, 30 seconds. You know, you're talking about going from A to B as fast as possible. That's your average speed, you know, so you want to get your speed up as fast as possible, as quickly as possible and then settle in. Once you get up to speed, you can maintain speed. It takes more effort to slowly, progressively press the power on to get up to that speed. If you take longer to do that, it does more damage. So the quicker you can get up to speed and then back off once you're at speed, your whole speed and just feather the pedals. I, I, so I agree with you. I definitely think it sets the tone, it sets the tone psychologically more than anything.
- [16:37]
Johan Brunel
More than psychologically. I think psychologically, definitely, you know, and I think, you know, especially if you're seeing the contrast between Salash and today. I checked until that first, the first corner about half a minute into the race and you could see the difference. So I remember I said to my son, because I was watching with my son, and I checked two seconds faster. After 30 seconds, I said, okay, Pogal chair has this over, Jonas. Yeah. Anyway, then another thing, I mean, I don't know if it's just an impression or, you know, we saw today Pogacha in the skin suit, the polka dot skin suit. But to me, it's the first. I mean, he was in his, he was in his rainbow jersey. You know, you're used to see him in his rainbow jersey the whole year. To me, I, I don't know if it's just my impression, but he looks extremely skinny. He looks extremely tiny with that skin suit on. I've never seen him. So I, I think personally that Ogacha has never been as light as he is now.
- [17:40]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, no, it's a good, it's a good shout. I mean, it's very difficult to tell. I, I actually think, I actually think he, he doesn't look like Taday Bagasha when he's on his time trial bike. If you, if you had to look and guess which rider. But he almost looks taller.
- [17:53]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [17:54]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
And, and I think there might be something in the black shorts which combine, you know, obviously how he wears black shorts with his world champs jersey or does he wear black shorts with the world champions jersey or is he sometimes.
- [18:06]
Johan Brunel
Sometimes he changes, sometimes he changes.
- [18:09]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
But, but certainly with that king of the mountain thing, it does make the, his, his outline look different. Yeah, but, but I almost think he doesn't look as comfortable on his time trial bike for the performances he does on his time trial bike. He almost looks awkward on him.
- [18:23]
Johan Brunel
Exactly. Well, you bring, you bring up at a good moment. I just wanted to go over you, you know, I had, I've put these four pictures here together of, of Jonas and today and then Remco, if we look at, if we look at the picture here, but we see clearly that, so Remco's position, I think there's nothing to, I mean it's as you said, the most perfect position that a time trialist can have. It's the most arrow. He's, you know, they, it's not for nothing they call him the arrow bullet. Right?
- [18:55]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:58]
Johan Brunel
Jonas's position is actually also extremely good.
- [19:01]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I think it looks fantastic.
- [19:03]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, yeah, he looks, he looks really good. I personally think that, you know, we've talked a lot about those crazy looking helmets of Visma. I think they're actually fantastic. Is a genius idea. And then if you look at today on the fourth picture in his skin suit, in his polka dot skin suit, he looks very arrow. But I agree that he looks the least arrow. Arrow of, of the three.
- [19:29]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah. His helmet is, is almost something like, you know, it's almost like something from 10 years ago. His helmet looks like it's had the least amount of effort and technology and thought put into it.
- [19:40]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [19:41]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I don't know if that's the case or not. Someone might tell you different.
- [19:43]
Johan Brunel
But yeah, I, you know, it is, it looks, I mean, compared to the big helmets that cover the shoulders nowadays and you know, of course it makes sense. If you think about it, I'm pretty sure that if they would have proposed that to you 10 years ago or 12 years ago, you would have said, no, I'm not wearing this. But it does, it does make sense. Right. It's strange to see that UAE and, and their sponsor helmets haven't gone that way yet. But anyways, you know, compare these positions. They're all extremely arrow but yeah, Remco is just to perfection. It's, it's, it's incredible.
- [20:19]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:20]
Johan Brunel
Did you see, did you see even. I mean, it's so much detail. Did you see what they did to his visor? The. The visor.
- [20:29]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
So there's a cutaway. So it, when he's down, does it go over his forearms?
- [20:34]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So there's, I don't think there's anybody who has put so much time in the Tantra opposition and the equipment. Remco, and we know that he's an obsessed guy with that, but also to be able to. I mean, I think that this is what people need to understand. You know, in Sequoia, Remco is extremely arrow. To be able to get into that position. People don't understand how much you have to work for this. You have to train hours and hours and hours. Right.
- [21:09]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah. And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's what gives him his efficiency is the ability, the powers that he can produce for a small guy like that, but the position he can get himself into.
- [21:20]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [21:21]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
To still say, still stay competitive and not just be competitive, be the best in the world. It reminds me of. Is very similar to Chris Borman. Chris Boardman was never a big powerhouse in terms of the numbers he could produce, but the numbers he could produce and the way the efficiency could find with his positioning on the bike meant he would win time trials and win prologues. Remco is very similar. You know, Remco, for someone his size, with the power he produces, should not be able to time trial as well as he does. Yeah, but the, you know, the attention to detail he gives to the time job, position the bike and, you know, the ability that he has for time trialing, that coupled together with the position he gets himself into means he's a dominant force.
- [22:02]
Johan Brunel
Yeah. Nice. It's incredible. His, I mean, he is the best time travelist in the world for a reason. I mean, he, I, I would like, I would need to look back. When did he not win a time trial lately?
- [22:15]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
It's been a while ago in the Tour de France. Yeah. So he's unbeaten. He's unbeaten in the last 12 months.
- [22:20]
Johan Brunel
The last time trial, which was more of an uphill time trial, also with the cold days. Right.
- [22:25]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
But you think what he has won. Yeah, you've seen what he has won in the last 12 months. Months. He's won the Olympic title, the world title, the Belgium title, Romundy Doan. I mean, he's. And then today, the Tour Palmares just in the last 12 months.
- [22:38]
Johan Brunel
Oh, incredible. Incredible. Yeah. Bradley, I just wanted to make a little parenthesis and not talk about today's race, but you know, having the privilege of having you on here and being in your day the best time rally in the world. Also, you know, Olympic champion time trial, World champion time trial, our record holder. I would like, if you can, to explain a little bit to us, to me and to the listeners, what the process of the time trials were in your days. For example, in the Tour de France 2012, there were two longer individual time trials, I think to remember.
- [23:15]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, 39 kilometers and 53 kilometers.
- [23:18]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, considerable amount of 90, 90 something kilometers of time trial. No team time trial.
- [23:25]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
No, no team time trial.
- [23:27]
Johan Brunel
No team time trial. But so I imagine also when you prepared for that Tour de France and especially you knew that you were going to take time in the time trials the way you prepared, I would imagine that before, in the beginning of the season, you went to do the recon of the time trials already.
- [23:46]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
So before Paris Nice that year, myself and Sean Yates. Sean was my right hand man, you know, Sean, don't forget Sean was the last British winner of a Tour de France stage in a time trial in 1988. Still, up to a few years ago was the fastest individual time trial in the Tour de France. But Sean was great. Sean would dissect time trials and dissect the course and, and would have all that information before I saw it. So we were halfway there. So before par, we went to look at the long time trial in La Chartre, we rode it and after the Dauphine in 2012, we stayed around in the area and went to look at the other time trial in Bezenson I think it was. So we recon both, but nothing can prepare you for what the course is going to be like on the day when it's barriered spectators, etc. Etc. You know, when they take road furniture up for race lines and things. So you're kind of, you know, you still don't know. So I would follow a rider early on in the day for parts of the course to see what it was like. They would also film it. So I would send the first, once the first ride were done, they would send a video back from the car. So I would, would watch that in the bus up through anything, half an hour to go. So I would have a full idea of where I was going to take. Plus then, you know, I would rely on Sean Yates who would have every corner detailed out on the list. So I'd be riding on. Sean would say, 300 meters, Brad, hard left, full gas on the skis. So I would know not to come up off the skis. I would stay on and I would rely, much like a co pilot in rally driving.
- [25:13]
Johan Brunel
Where do you. Where do you think he learned that?
- [25:17]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I don't know. I don't know. Your.
- [25:18]
Johan Brunel
Where was before he was on Team Sky. Where was he? Of course.
- [25:25]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
And so there was an element of trust between me and Sean on that one, you know, and I would trust that he knew time trialing, he knew what information I wanted and how to deliver it. Sean would never get too excited in cars. So Sean would never go, brad, you're one minute up. You're going to win the race. He was never like that shot. It was just, Brad, 59 seconds up on Tony Martin. That was it. Just pan. And he knew that that was like. And so. And then every now and again he goes, you're killing it, Brad. You look, you're killing it. You know, just little bits of motivation like that. So Sean was great like that on the day of the race, you know. So as I say, we would look, you know, we have some video feedback, some video footage. I would have seen the course in the morning. I would have the course in my mind from whenever we reconed it. And we would just go out there and it was just. But once I was out there, it was a lonely existence. And I would ride from A to B as fast as possible. And A to B, it wasn't, you know, time checks weren't going to affect how I rode. It was just a case of going out and correlating speed with power. If I'm going up a climb and it's 1km long and I would aim to sit at 500 watts, I wouldn't get out the saddle. I would stay in my top position. If we were going downhill and I was doing 64km downhill and I wouldn't need to sit on 500 watts, it would be, you know, whatever the power was for the speed I was given getting. And that was. And it was just a case of a. To be as fast as possible. And on what part of this course am I going to make the most gains? You're not going to make it on a straight downhill section compared to someone else who can also do 65km. Now you're going to make it on the rises and how you apply the pressure on the climbs and how you take it over the top. And that's really where I went you know, I mean, the last time trial was pretty much flat, much like today, but twice as long as. And I just rode at, you know, correlated speed and power the whole time. And the, the time checks were just confirmation that I was getting faster and faster and get put in more and more distance in between me and the riders behind me. And it was a mental bat. You know, the time trial like today is just a mental. There's nothing to break your concentration. There's no climbs, there's not a whole great deal of technical sections. So it's just a case of how can I sit on this red line and psychologically, you know, make myself suffer more than the other riders? And that's what someone like Remco is greater. And today did the same today. And Jonas today, someone like Jonas today, on a course like that, it's your worst nightmare in a time trial is getting negative feedback that you're going down and down and down.
- [27:46]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
And you're watching the race go away from you, and you can almost see the desperation on Eunice coming into the finish. They're the worst time trial for anyone.
- [27:52]
Johan Brunel
Yeah. No, it's. It's horrible. It's horrible. And in terms of the equipment, Brad, like the wind tunnel testing and everything in the off season or at the beginning of the season, did you guys do. I just want to see if there was any, you know, any novelties already then?
- [28:08]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah. I mean, I never, I never spent my time worrying about that. I would rely on the people that were paid to do that. So I wouldn't go to the wind tunnel. They'd have a mannequin of my body double in the wind tunnel and put bits on it. So Chris Borman headed up that project for us. And Chris, as you know, fanatical about aerodynamics.
- [28:25]
Johan Brunel
Yeah.
- [28:26]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
You know, he's got the T shirt, he's been there, done it. So I would, I would entrust those guys to do their job in their domain, and I would focus much on getting myself to the right fitness. And those pieces would be dripped into me at whatever time, whether it was the Tour de France. Here's a new skin suit, Brad. Here's a new helmet, Brad. This is, you know, this is going to be the. And I would just. I would rely on them, you know, that was it. I would just. I would focus on the things I could control. And the things I can control were how can I be in the fitness and, and, and execute a performance on a time travel over 55km or 39km to the best of my ability and, and not worry about what equipment I was on. But I would entrust the people that were out there that I was going to get the best equipment. And that's where every department, you know, did its job to the best. And that's why we had a winning culture and a winning team.
- [29:12]
Johan Brunel
Interesting, interesting. Now I also wanted to touch a little bit on the difference between, you know, your time and you over the years of your career and, and nowadays in terms of positioning. And I found this, I, I took together a few pictures. If we put this picture up here, I found these four pictures. The first one is you on Kofidis and then you go to credit, then you went to Garmin, then Tour de France in the yellow jersey world champion and then the hour record. If you look at these pictures here, you can clearly see how you've changed from the old fashioned to something that is like the hour record is very close to what we see now.
- [30:01]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean that was over. So the hour record was 2015. You're going back. So there's, there's a 12 year period there where those photos are taken and you can clearly see, you know, the evolution of the position of my position based on, on the, the new ideas and the new way of thinking and what worked and what didn't work over the years. And you know, by 2015 it's the closest example of what we're seeing today. And that was very much that sky took up, you know, the hour record project. Sky went away with Chris Borman and the team in the aerodynamics and Pinarello. And that was when the computer CGI technology come in where you could, you could 3D scan someone's body and really see where the drag efficient, you know, drag factors were, etc. And we had the 3D printed handlebars which they all see today. They've all got, so they're modeled to your exact elbow and arms and forearms. And I also finished Paris Roubaix in April 1775 cranks I used to ride and the plan was to do the hour record on 1775 cranks because all my time trialing was on 1-775. And the new information that was coming through at that time from the wind tunnel and CGI testing and that was that 170 cranks are now going to be the next big thing. It reduces your whole frontal area position. You can get, you know, you could get lower down, closer, elbows together, all that sort of stuff which is what resembles in that, in that our record picture. Yeah, so it's funny how that, that's, you know, the evolution of that where we are today talking about 155 cranks and 160 cranks. You know, that was the new way of thinking. But you can see the difference in my positions over those photos there.
- [31:38]
Johan Brunel
Oh, yeah. I mean, if you look at coffee first, coffee looked like. Yeah. I mean, you were, you were of course, specialist, but didn't look fast at all.
- [31:47]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
No, no, no.
- [31:48]
Johan Brunel
The agricole looked even worse. And then guard. The Garmin, The Garmin picture looks already a lot better.
- [31:54]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
We're getting better there. Yeah.
- [31:56]
Johan Brunel
That's 2009, I'm guessing.
- [31:58]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah.
- [31:59]
Johan Brunel
Then 2012 in the yellow jersey. I mean, great position, but you were also extremely strong. And then the time drop position in the, in the world champions jersey is very similar already.
- [32:10]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah.
- [32:11]
Johan Brunel
You know, and then if you look at the record I was there, by the way, I was there in 2015 in London to, to witness that, that other record. Then just for fun, Bradley, I found this picture here. I don't know if you, if you remember this picture.
- [32:28]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
I do remember it very well. That is actually not a bad picture for an 18 year old. That's not a bad position.
- [32:35]
Johan Brunel
Well, I mean, it's not a bad position for that era.
- [32:38]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
For that, for that era. As an 18 year old. I was. There was a junior national 25 mile time trial championship, which I won.
- [32:46]
Johan Brunel
It's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. Yeah, that's. Yeah. Okay. Time for our Ventum trivia question. As every day Phantom gives us questions you can enter into the contest at the end of the Tour de France. Of all the correct answers, there will be a winner drawn who can win. Who will win a $5,000 store credits towards any Ventum bike you want to purchase. Yesterday's question, stage four was the following. While not a famous summit in the Tour, stage four featured the coat Jacques Anquetil, a 2.6 kilometer category four climb named after French cyclist Jacques Anquetil. What two things did Ankatil accomplish to get this climb named in his honor? And the answer is. Jacques was the first rider to win the Tour five times. He was the one before Eddie Merckx. So after Jacques. Eddie Merckx won five times. But Jacob was, I mean, and I will. I know that you know this very well as a cycling historian. The best time travelist in the world. This guy did win the time the Tour in the time trials, by the way. First the Tour five times and also the first to do the Giro Tour double. First rider to Win zero Tour in the same season.
- [34:16]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah. And you know what? Yeah, yeah. There was some talk today about me. Quite one of the questions was Miguel Injurain, would he have won five Tours had he had today's time training? I mean you could, you could, you could pose that question for any error. I mean, because one of the, the largest, the largest distance, the, the biggest time gap in a time trial in a Tour de France was seven minutes between Copy and Bartali in 1947 and the time trial distance was 137km. So how far back do we want to go? Yeah, to ask, you know, to ask this question.
- [34:48]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Stage five question for the Phantom trivia for today. So the stage five, the individual time trial of today would have been a very good discipline for time trial specialist Sir Bradley Wiggins. The question is, how many total Grand Tour individual time trial stages did Bradley Wiggins win over the course of his career? I'm pretty sure you know the answer. Don't say it. So how many total Grand Tour individual time trials did Bradley win over the course of his entire career? So send your best guess or if you know the answer, the answer to ventumracing.com/the move. You will enter into the contest for the five thousand dollar store credit if you don't want to wait until the end of the Tour. Ventum is also offering during the whole course of this Tour de France, 10% off on the whole site using the code the move. 10 or 20% off if you want to buy the rogue model, the NS1 with the code NS1 20 tomorrow. Bradley, we have another interesting stage, another 201km stage. Not easy. 3,000plus meters of elevation. So definitely not a stage for the sprinters, especially if we also see the profile of the last. So similar, similar to yesterday, I'm gonna guess, right?
- [36:18]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah, very similar to yesterday. And I hate to say it, but in my eyes there could only be one winner tomorrow. And it's 10A again.
- [36:28]
Johan Brunel
Yeah. The question is, the question is. I mean, I think I know the answer. The question is, do they really want to burn up their team another day now by now they, they can allow a breakaway. There are a lot of people, I.
- [36:46]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Don'T think it will be them who decides though. I think the natural inertia of the peloton, you know, as we've seen, will naturally bring things back. I don't think UAE have to take that, that role tomorrow.
- [36:57]
Johan Brunel
Yeah, I agree. You know, it's still early, it's narrow, it's A lot of turns up and down the speed of the peloton. The natural speed of the peloton is almost constantly 50 kilometers per hour especially, you know, every time they had to get ready for a new strategic point, a turn, another little climb and so. Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. Especially with, you know, it's, it's quite steep at the end. I think it's 700 meters. 10%.
- [37:27]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Yeah.
- [37:29]
Johan Brunel
So they will probably see another opportunity to, to take a little bit of time on Jonas. Yeah, qualification for sure. So, yeah, let's see what happens tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow for another show. Thank you, Bradley and speak soon.
- [37:43]
Sir Bradley Wiggins
Thank you.
- [37:52]
C
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