Tour de France Stage 9 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Tour de France Stage 9 | The Sir Wiggo & Johan Show
Release Date: July 13, 2025
Host: Lance Armstrong

---

Introduction

In this captivating episode of THEMOVE, Lance Armstrong hosts a dynamic discussion featuring cycling legends Bradley Wiggins, commentator Phil Liggett, and Johan Brunel. The trio delves deep into the thrilling events of Tour de France Stage 9, analyzing tactical maneuvers, team dynamics, and standout performances that defined the day.

---

Stage 9 Overview

Matthew van der Poel’s Ambitious Attack
The highlight of Stage 9 was undoubtedly Matthew van der Poel's audacious attack from the very start ([01:31] Bradley Wiggins). Breaking away at kilometer zero, van der Poel and his teammate maintained an impressive solo lead of 207 km, making it the seventh longest solo break in Tour de France history. Despite their extraordinary effort, they were ultimately caught within the last kilometer, leaving the peloton in awe of their sheer determination.

“Of the day? I mean, there's a few things today, but the main one today was Matthew Vanderpool's attack from kilometer zero, pretty much. And getting caught with one kilometer to go and 2, with a teammate as well.”
— Bradley Wiggins [01:31]

Phil Liggett’s Reaction
Phil Liggett echoed Wiggins' sentiments, praising the boldness of the attack and recognizing its impact on the race dynamics.

“I agree this was definite event of the day. You know, respect to Tim who won the stage, but this was definitely the, the talk of the day.”
— Phil Liggett [01:53]

---

Guest Insights: Bradley Wiggins Reflects on His Tour de France Experience

A Memorable Solo Breakaway
Bradley Wiggins reminisced about his own 207 km solo breakaway during the 2007 Tour de France, undertaken in honor of Tommy Simpson's 50th death anniversary. Reflecting on the experience, Wiggins highlighted the grueling nature of such efforts and the fleeting hope of leading the race.

“I spent 207km alone in the front that day... My breakaway is 207. It's still the seventh longest solo break in Tour de France history.”
— Bradley Wiggins [07:51]

Modern Cycling Tactics vs. Past Strategies
Wiggins contrasted his era with the current state of cycling, noting the increasing complexity and audacity of modern race strategies, which often leave him marveling at today's riders.

“We're witnessing these kinds of things now in modern-day cycling where, from my time and obviously your time, it was unheard of...”
— Bradley Wiggins [04:13]

---

Team Strategies and Dynamics

Impact of João Almeida’s Abandonment
The discussion shifted to the significant impact of João Almeida abandoning the race due to a crash. Wiggins emphasized Almeida's prowess as the most successful stage racer of the year, sparking concerns about the future strategies of teams like Visma and UAE.

“It's always a tough order, wasn't it, for him to... But today, if you take Tade out of this race... it would have been a very different race.”
— Bradley Wiggins [13:56]

Visma’s Tactical Adjustments
With Almeida out, Visma now faces the challenge of recalibrating their strategy. Wiggins speculated on Visma's possible moves, considering riders like Tim Wellens and Adam Yates stepping up to fill the void, ensuring the team remains competitive in the General Classification (GC).

“Tim Wellens has been doing... It has given a new lease of life... Tim Wellens is now going to be the most crucial rider, I think.”
— Bradley Wiggins [17:08]

---

Sprint Analysis: Jonathan Milan vs. Campenaerts

An Unorthodox Sprint Strategy
The episode featured an in-depth analysis of the sprint between Jonathan Milan and Remco Evenepoel. Liggett and Brunel dissected Milan's unique sprinting technique, highlighting his aerodynamic efficiency and power application despite his unconventional approach.

“Jonathan Milan... he pedals a smaller gear than most. He almost looks geared for the power and the talk that he's producing in those sprints.”
— Bradley Wiggins [29:25]

Aerodynamics and Efficiency
The conversation delved into how riders like Campenaerts leverage aerodynamics to gain an edge in sprints, contrasting it with Milan's more power-intensive method.

“Even in those crosswinds and all those line outs, Milan's are working that bit harder than everyone else.”
— Bradley Wiggins [30:08]

---

Upcoming Stage Preview: Stage 10

Challenging Terrain Ahead
Looking forward to Stage 10, the hosts anticipated a grueling route characterized by 165 kilometers of terrain with eight category two climbs and a final category three climb with a steep 8% gradient over three kilometers. This stage is expected to be a "suffering fest" for many riders, testing their endurance and strategic planning.

“Seven category two climbs and one category three climb. Seven category two climbs. And they're all like, just not long enough... These are the harder ones.”
— Phil Liggett [37:31]

Strategic Battles
The panel speculated on potential tactical battles, particularly focusing on the showdown between Jonas and Tadej Pogačar, considering the exhaustion levels after ten demanding days in the Tour.

“All eyes will be fixated on tomorrow, it's that battle between Jonas and Tade.”
— Bradley Wiggins [40:23]

---

Conclusion

The episode concluded with the hosts expressing anticipation for the intense developments in the upcoming stages, highlighting the ever-evolving strategies and the indomitable spirit of the riders. Their expert analysis provided listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the intricate dynamics at play in the Tour de France.

---

Notable Quotes

• “Any time you want to be in a breakaway, either alone or with another rider, any other race it would just be the worst thing in the world, wouldn't it? But the Tour de France... it actually goes very quick.”
  — Bradley Wiggins [08:54]

• “These are the harder ones. Because it's not a mountain day, you know, riders that don't expect to get through the stage will have to do the job early on for the teams and be there as long as possible.”
  — Bradley Wiggins [37:56]

---

This episode of THEMOVE offers an enthralling blend of personal anecdotes, expert analysis, and strategic insights, making it a must-listen for cycling enthusiasts eager to deepen their understanding of the Tour de France's intricate battles.

Transcript

[Bradley Wiggins]

Do you know what, Johan? This Today is the 18th and 18th, 18 year anniversary of my solo break in the Tour de France.

[Johan Brunel]

Oh.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Which was of course 2007, which also started as a joke. I said in the morning to the journalist, I'm going to go out today because it was the anniversary of Tommy Simpson's death, the 50th anniversary. And so I decided to go up the road to honor Tom Simpson and I thought, you know, people would come with me. No one came with me. I spent 207km alone in the front that day. And it was today, the 13th of July 2007.

[Phil Liggett]

So it was 2007. So which stage was that?

[Bradley Wiggins]

It was the stage to Bourg de Boisun. Tom Boonen won the stage where I got caught. OK, OK. My breakaway, my breakaway is 207. It's still the seventh longest solo break in Tour de France history. Little stab there. I'm the 2012 Tour de France winner, Sir Bradley Wiggins.

[Phil Liggett]

And I'm Johan Brunel. I directed my teams tonight. Nine to the France victories. Welcome to the Sir Wiggle and Johan show, our daily show where we dive deep into the tactics behind every stage of the Tour de France. Welcome back to the Sir Wiggo and Johan show. We are talking today about stage nine of the Tour de France. From Chinon to Chateaurou, 174km as every day. Presented by Ketone IQ. I'm here with Bradley Wiggins and we're going to ask him a few questions what his opinion is about certain things. Bradley, first of all, as every day, what is Bradley's take of the day?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Of the day? I mean, there's a few things today, but the main one today was Matthew Vanderpool's attack from kilometer zero, pretty much. And getting caught with one kilometer to go and 2, 2 with a teammate as well. But yeah, that was a. An incredible effort. Didn't quite come off, but we're all left wondering what it was about.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

And I agree this was definite event of the day. You know, respect to Tim who won the stage, but this was definitely the, the talk of the day. I'm going to guess on all the, on all the TV stations, in the caravan, amongst the riders, in the peloton and now also after the stage.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, exactly. Bill, I want to talk to you, Johan, about one of our sponsors today, Zwift. So Zwift recently rolled out its new cog and clicked product. It's such a simple yet brilliant product. You can use it almost on any bike you already own, even One from Walmart. Point being, your bike doesn't have to cost $5,000 and still feels like when you're on top end. Smart trainer Zwift Trainer ready trainers are available from all top manufacturers. Wahoo, Garmin Elite, Jet Black and Decathlon. Setting a new benchmark for indoor training. All Zwift ready trainers come with the new Zwift Cog and click installed, making them ready to ride from the box, no extras needed. So simple and no to remove your cassette. Zwift ready trainers start at just $299. Meaning anyone can jump into a world class indoor training without breaking the bank.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, I like, I like it. I mean I've good idea in it. It is, it is, it's, it's amazing, you know and I'm fortunate that Zwift provided me with the Zwift ride which also has this virtual cassette integrated and, and it's really also a part of the setup which is really very simple but it enhances the experience because if you combine it with the handlebars, the handlebars Zwift has, it's like you're playing a video game. It's really, really good. We all know that indoor riding can sometimes be a bit monotone, but this actually increases the experience a lot. Okay, Bradley, so as we said, we had this attack from kilometer zero first Jonas Rickart joined by Matthew van der Poel. Boat riders from the Opposin. Quite audacious, quite audacious in a sprint, in a stage that everybody thought and was almost convinced that it was going to be a bunch print. What do you think like when you saw it? I don't know if you saw it but I mean once you started watching, you for sure found out that they went from kilometer zero. What do you think the plan is behind that?

[Bradley Wiggins]

You know, I have no idea what the plan. I mean we're witnessing these kind of things now in modern day cycling where know from my time and obviously your time, it was, it was unheard of, these kind of things and we're seeing more and more of it where we can't explain relating to our time, what the tactic was, you know, knowing what it's like to be weak into the Tour of France and, and having watched the race this week and seeing how hard it's been and understanding how hard it's been and even thinking it's well this is even harder than my time. You can, you know, you have a semblance of, of, of kind of an understanding of how these riders must feel in the bus but, you know, maybe Vanderpoel is a different because Vanderpoel is very, very special and unique. But his teammate, Ryard, I mean, I'm. I can't imagine that he would have been sat there this morning at 88 kilos a week into this Tour de France. And how it's been thinking, you know what I fancy a whole day up the road today, hovering at five minutes and lasting to a few k to go, you know, with. With tomorrow in mind and how the Tour has been up to this point. You know, I imagine we said these two days transition stroke sprint stages would be a welcome break for the riders in terms of a recovery and, and maximizing the recovery and, and maximizing the days where you don't have to think too much. So to go up the road with your team leader in Matthew van der Poel, I mean, I wouldn't fancy going out on a training ride in my prime for five or six hours with Matthew van der Poel swapping off. So to do it in a stage of the Tour de France.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, no, I thought, I thought the performance of Rikka is, you know, listen, Van der Poel, we know he's. He's one of a kind, you know, and he can pull things out of his head that, yeah, he said, okay, it's. It's impossible, but it's Matthew van der Poel. So it is possible.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Anything's possible.

[Phil Liggett]

Ricardo today was incredible. You know, both, more or less. Both are the same. The same height, I would say Ricardo maybe. I mean, it's 88 kilos, but, you know, not very arrow Maturo if he wants. He's pretty arrow also. I mean, to be able to do that with your leader at this speed, that was quite the thing. But, you know, I listened to Mathieu van der Poel after the stage, and actually, initially it was not a plan. It started as a joke in the bus. So apparently the story is that Jonas Rickard in the bus and already probably a few times told that it's his dream to at least once in his career to be on the podium of a Tour de France stage. And he said, you know what? Probably the easiest way to do that is to win the most aggressive rider of the day. So that's why he attacked. And Mathieu said, well, you know, we'll go together. So Ricardo thought it was a joke. But then. So Ricard attacked and then when he saw Matthieu coming and. And he started to relay.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Once they had a minute, Richard said, well, you know, it was a joke, but Now I found out it's serious. So here we are, you know, and, and yeah, I mean, I think sometimes these things happen, but I was surprised that the peloton let them take like at some point they had five and a half minutes or almost six minutes. You would still think, okay, you know, it's a flat stage. But anyway, got caught by the peloton with less than a kilometer, 700 meters to go. I was cheering for him, man. I mean, something like this, that would have been quite the ride if he could pull this off.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Do you know what, Johan? This Today is the 18 year anniversary of my solo break in the Tour de France.

[Johan Brunel]

Oh.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Which was of course 2007, which also started as a joke. I said in the morning to the journalist, I'm going to go out today because it was anniversary of Tommy Simpson's death, the 50th anniversary. And so I decided to go up the road to honor Tom Simpson. And I thought, you know, people would come with me. No one came with me. I spent 207km alone in the front that day. And it was the day, the 13th of July 2007.

[Phil Liggett]

So it was 2007. So which stage was that?

[Bradley Wiggins]

It was the stage to Borg Dwazon. Tom Brunan won the stage where I got caught. Okay, okay, my breakaway, My breakaway is 207. It's still the seventh longest solo break in Tour de France history. Little style there.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

You were on, you were on Coffee this, Coffee this.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And the director who was with me all day in the car next to me was Bernard Kifa.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, yeah. Passed away sadly.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Really nice guy. Super, super nice guy.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

I remember if there's any race, you.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Want to be in a breakaway, either alone or with another rider. Any other race it would be, you know, you know, it would just be the worst thing in the world, wouldn't it? You wouldn't want to be out there. But the Tour de France, once the helicopters come up and you know, you're on live TV and you know the world's watching, it actually goes very quick.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

That must have been quite the experience. I mean, how, how far from the finish, how far from the finish did you get?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Five kilometers. Five kilometers?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I, I had, when I was out there, I had a 17 and a half minute lead at one point and, and I remember thinking that day I thought, right, I've got a chance of winning here. Taking yellow. Yeah, because I, I remember it took me back to the 1997 Tour de France. I remember watching on telly, I was 17, it was 10 years before that. And Cedric Vassar did a solo breakaway again and he got 17 and a half minutes. And I remember sitting there on the bike thinking, I got Cedric Vassil got 17 half minutes. He took the jersey and took the stage. He's running for Gan at the time. And I thought, this is the same thing's going to happen to me.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But then the last 100k was into a headwind and I, yeah, the time came whittling down and it wasn't to be, but I got the most combative that day.

[Phil Liggett]

So that was your first time. That was, that was also your first time on the Tour de France.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I got the Cour de Lyon. I got my body weight and cheese. My body weight and cheese that day.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those were the days. Yeah, yeah. Interesting, interesting. Anyway, so we have those two riders up front and as expected, we have little Trek setting the pace. Starting to set the pace initially just with one rider with Thibault Nice putting in the bunch. So, I mean, I, I, I don't know if you guys on the move have talked about it. George must have been happy to see that, right?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, George was very happy.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, did he, did he already get over his frustration from yesterday?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, well, I think he was still quite angry about it last night.

[Johan Brunel]

Dinner.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, yeah. Well, so, so anyway, so it was clear that that was just to maintain because little Trek rider, they were never going to bring back those two riders. And then, no, and especially, you know, it was cross tailwind most of the day. So, you know, those two guys went really fast and then the mid stage, at the mid stage, they had five minutes 57 or something. The two leaders.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, and there you could start to see the conviction, you know, of the Alpecin duo that, you know, they could actually make it. You know, I mean, normally you would say, you know, there's no chance, you know, but this is Matthew Vanderpool. That's the, that's, that's, that's the difference.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, yeah. Or Adria's. Phil Liggett kept saying all day, oh.

[Phil Liggett]

He does, he was actually, I mean, I, I raced with Audrey and I was a teammate with him on Rabobank, you know. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, he was an amazing cyclist. Lombardy, Tour of Flanders.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Do you remember who he beat in the Tour of Flanders?

[Phil Liggett]

Sean Kelly.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Sean Kelly.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

The one race that eluded Sean.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Sean has never won the Tour Flounders.

[Johan Brunel]

No.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, but like for Matthew. For Matthew. I mean, if you have a father who that, who's that good, and your father is not even half as good as Matthew, as the son. No, it's, it's, it's, it's incredible. It's incredible.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And the other brother was really good as well, first time, wasn't he? There's another.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, David. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

David was very good.

[Phil Liggett]

Who's now. He's now a writer's agent. He's actually Matthew's agent and he's an agent for. For. For a lot of cyclists and doing a really good job, by the way. I've heard.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, but I mean, if you, you could, you could say, okay, this is sprinter stage. But you know, with those two guys up front and those speeds, you know, I thought by myself, you know what, this is a horrible stage for the majority of the peloton. You know, it's not like you have to pay attention all the time.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

But so anyways, crosswinds the whole day. One particular thing that I also, I think we should talk about is we could see already before half stage, Joel made up. Joel Maehta got in trouble. It was, you know, the speeds were high, he got dropped, he got brought back in the caravan and then, and then finally, you know, he has to abandon. I think.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

That's only logical.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

There's no.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's always. It was always going to be. It was always a tough order, wasn't it, for him to. We know what it's like to break with. We said yesterday. But not just the rib, you know, he went down heavy and it's, it's. It was sad to see him hovering off the back, actually, because I think he was, you know, Tade aside again. I keep saying it, but today, if you take Tade out of this race, which, you know, stranger things have happened in terms of it. Taddy crashed or something. The GC would be wide open and someone like Almeida, if he's still close as Matteo Jurgense is to his team leader.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It would have been a very different race. But. Yes.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, I think, I think that puts, you know, unfortunately, you know, they lost Almeida. Let's not forget, you know, he's the most successful stage racer this year.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Of the whole peloton. You know, Spencer also made some calculations and he said, you know, he's probably the third best climber in this race. Yeah. Seeing his performances in Tour of Switzerland and Romandy And Basque Country. And so he would be, he would have been. I mean, I mean, it's actually scary to have a rider like Almeida at your service.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, when, when does Almeida get a shot at winning a Grand Tour himself?

[Phil Liggett]

You know, it's gonna have to be the Giro de Vuelta.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I mean, if you'd have put him in this year's Giro, I think it had been a very different result to the Simon Yates display that he did on the last day.

[Phil Liggett]

Probably, probably. But you know, he has, he has. Wasn't he second or third in the Giro one year? Yeah, it was, yeah, he was still on quick step. I think he was. And, and so, yeah, I mean, I think he deserves, he deserves to have a chance. I think that's going to be his, his, his next step. You know, look, so this year he was focusing on those one week stage races and already in the planning of the season to be the guy next to, next to today. So what do you think will happen now, Bradley, with Almeida out? We have some hard stages coming up. Obviously this is in the advantage of Visma. How do you think Visma has to play and how do you think UAE has to now adapt losing our made up?

[Bradley Wiggins]

I think Visma are in an idle position now as a unit, as a team. Obviously the jury's out in terms of how good Sepkus will be, which we'll just, we'll find out tomorrow. And Mateo Jorgensen lying pretty much together in the gc, they've got all the cards to play now and they're gonna have to have a very good think about how they do that, how they play those cards. But today, I don't know. I mean, if we were talking about any else other than Tade, I'd be worried for that team and for that leader. But you know, you always get to the point, does Taday need a team? I mean, he's just, he's that good, isn't he? And we were saying before we came on this recording, you know, you were saying about the Strava files and just how, how effortless he is through the stages compared to other riders. I mean.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, well, we'll, we'll bring him up in, in another show in the next days. But you know, I've done some research and I've done it last year already. It's incredible how efficient this guy is in the peloton. If you see his, his calorie consumption compared to some of the rivals, it's, it's mind blowing. We'll save those files for. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I mean, I think other riders around Tade will have to step up into a position who hadn't anticipated having to step up into position. But we've already seen that the job Tim Wellens has been doing since the start of this race is. Is phenomenal. You know, and I watched him win the Belgium Championship. I was over in Belgium at the time. And it's.

[Johan Brunel]

It.

[Bradley Wiggins]

That Belgium title has almost given a new lease of life and, and you can see how much he's enjoying riding in that role. And you know that the camaraderie has. And the friendship he has with Tade and Tade giving it, you know, giving him the king of the mountains chance. And so Tim Wellens is now going to be the most crucial rider, I think.

[Phil Liggett]

I think so.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Going.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Going through these next two weeks, you.

[Phil Liggett]

Know, they have Tim Wellens, they have Adam Yates. Adam Yates. Really?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Adam. Adam will be good. Adam will be good.

[Phil Liggett]

And. And I think Mark Soler quite good right now. But I agree, you know, if you look at the strength, you know, Visma versus UAE right now, it's okay. If you take today and Jonas, then you had Jorgensen and Almeida and now they lose that card. Right. So my question is, however, you know, what, what is it exactly that Visma can do? You know, they can send, I mean, whoever they send in front, even Simon Yates, he's out of the gc. If he's in front of, it doesn't really matter. It matters that there's a rider in front in case Jonas gets up the road. But today really needs to only focus on two guys. He doesn't let Jurgensen go away. And still, I would still say until now, Matteo has never been even close to today in an overall classification. So if Jurgensen goes up the road, it will have to be on a climb. If it's not on a climb, UAE has the manpower to shut it down. And if today follows Jurgensen, as he has done already in another stage, Jonas will be on the wheel. And then what if there are three guys? What are they going to do? It's not like the thing is that right now what we've seen compared to. Because everybody goes back to that stage of. Was it 2022?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Was 2022 when they. When they broke?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Today, right. With Primos. And that was different. And I think there UAE and today made a mistake by considering still Primos as a candidate, which he was not, because he had already had a bad crash. And so he, he actually let him seduced there to. To a game that he shouldn't have played. And what we've seen until now, no matter how strong the competition is, the team, if they're aggressive, once today goes, it's him versus Jonas. There is nobody else inside.

[Bradley Wiggins]

No.

[Phil Liggett]

So, you know, I mean, and on top of that, what I think people should also understand that the Tour de France is not the same like any other race. If Jurgensen goes up the road, he's a rival for Remco, for Vocalin, for anybody who has a top five ambition. So you automatically get assistance, which is different to other races. So it's going to be interesting. But I think the loss of Almeida is definitely, at least mentally, it's a game changer. I think it kind of takes away that feeling of safety which I think they had in the past. Don't you think?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, it's going to be really interesting. I mean, I think, And I think 24 hours from now when we're sat here discussing Monday stage, we'll have a better idea. We'll have a clear idea of. Because this is. Although it's not a mountain stage, I think this is. This is shaping up to be the hardest stage of the race, but it could be a very different thing.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, if.

[Bradley Wiggins]

If we're sitting here tomorrow night and Tad has put more time into Jonas, then I just don't see where anyone can go after that.

[Phil Liggett]

And yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow is key for Visma and Jonas. Jonas needs to be with today, tomorrow. Yeah, and, and, and I would.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I think he will be. I think he will be.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, yeah, me too. Me too.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And, and it's still. This stage still doesn't suit you and us down to the ground. It's the longer climbs that are really going to suit Yanis. That's where we get a true. I mean, I know it was a different story in the dopan on the longer climbs, but I think Jonas is in better shape than he was at the dofenate. Which is always your plan, isn't it? To come good.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Into the third week of the race.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, before we go on, I wanted to talk about Ketone iq, our presenting sponsor. Um, we all know that ketones are widely used in, in today's cycling. Um, my preferred format is this one here. The 10 gram ketone shot. No sugar, no caffeine. And it's been scientifically proven that ketones boost the athletic performance. Ketone IQ in the placebo. Controlled study with trained athletes discovered that ketones boosted the sprint power by 19%, the peak power by 13%, gut fatigue by 10% and spiked blood ketones by five times in just 20 minutes. In terms of Tour de France cyclists, it's also been found out that ketones help tremendously for a faster recovery. Ketone IQ is the sponsor of Visma Lisa bike and together with Visma and the the University of Leuven, they did another study to explore recovery and high altitude adaptation. And their key findings are improved blood flow, higher muscle oxygenation for better endurance and stamina. So go to ketone.com and enter the code the move 20 at checkout for 20 off. So that's ketone.com entering the code the move 20 at checkout.

[Bradley Wiggins]

All right, I got a question for you for tomorrow. If you were the DS at Visma Lisa, what, what would, what would be the ideal strategy? How would you play this one with a view of winning the Tour? Because they're not just riding for second place at the Store de France. No, they've got to. I mean, how do you play it tomorrow?

[Phil Liggett]

I think tomorrow is a stage. It's part of a longer strategy of wearing, wearing out day by day. Personally, I think tomorrow there's not much they can do. Let's not forget, you know, because we've seen these comments. Yeah, we want to make the race hard for you on us. It's better for Jonas, probably, but it's also better for today. And they're always talking about isolating him. I mean, isolating Pugachar is probably more interesting in an easier stage because you have better chances to play with the majority of the riders you have, but on a difficult stage. Isolating today means that it's going to be. They're going to isolate Jonas also because it's only going to be Jorgensen. And if, if, if Simon Yates is going to be good, which I suspect he will, and, and Sepkus, that's still a question mark. You know, I mean, everybody says Sepkus, Sepkus, but we haven't seen anything from Sepkus until now. I hope that we can see the Sepkus again from, from, from the good days. If you look at that, you know, if, as you said, you know, Tim Wellens is in great shape, Adam Yates will be there. And, and now more than ever, this guy knows that now with alm, he needs to step up. Yeah, and he will. And he will. I'm pretty confident he will. I think it's just a matter of, okay, making the race hard. And I personally think they can only beat Pogacha if they push Pogacha to make mistakes because wearing out everybody, it's going to wear out their own teammates also. And at the end it's going to be today versus Jonas.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Do you think they give too much away now in interviews as well? Like telling us what they want to do and what they're attempting to do?

[Phil Liggett]

I mean, the thing is also, what can we believe?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Is it all true?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Decoy?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Is it all true? I, I cannot, I, I just keep, I keep thinking that their whole plan is based on, you know, let's wear him out physically. Let's wear him out, his team physically and him mentally, you know, And I think that these little, you know, like interviews of, you know, you know, criticizing one and the other, that, that's, that's good for them because that kind of puts today on edge and it's all, it's all energy. You don't need to spend. Yeah, right. I mean, getting, getting irritated in interviews. I mean, the question is, does it really affect Pugach?

[Bradley Wiggins]

We, we don't think anything does, I don't think, you know.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

But anyway, so we going back to the stage of today, Bradley. So with, with about 72k to go. We see that. At that point I was thinking, I don't know what you think. You know, these guys still have a considerable advantage to two riders and we see that little track accelerates in the crosswinds. Actually, Jonathan Milan himself was taking the initiative and that, that kind of took a minute off, but then people came back and it kind of slowed down again. That's, that was the first time I thought, okay, you know what, they may have a chance because the teams were running out of riders to do the job.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And then, and then we saw Visma get involved with Jonas himself on the front. Yes.

[Phil Liggett]

Well, that was, that was, with, that was closer to the finish. That was like 20, 30K to go.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Bisma started in echelon, Jonas himself, and then the difference came back to 1 minute 30. So by then I was thinking probably a 50, 50 chance that they could make it, especially because it was Matthew in the front.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Also a slight uphill finish in the final didn't help Matthew, I think, and, and a few more bends and maybe the odd crash and that would have helped him in that running. But it was a shame, really, really sad to see him actually get so close.

[Phil Liggett]

But so far he, he went deep, man. Today he, his interview after the finish was, you know, he was okay. It's not going to break or make his Career, of course, you know, but he went really deep. It took him a while before he could start answering and actually thinking straight. I mean, both of those guys did an amazing job. I would want to see that power file and see their calorie expenditure of those two riders.

[Johan Brunel]

So yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

50Km average, which is the second fastest stage ever in the Tour de France done by only two riders, which is, which is incredible. Normally if you have a fast stage like this, it's either the peloton, obviously with a, with a tailwind, an easier stage, or with. Or a big group. I think the fastest stage is still. As of today, I don't remember the. I don't remember the year, but it's. I think it's Pablo Lastras, he was on Manesto, or was it? And, and he's now the director of Movistar. One of the directors. And it was, it was a big breakaway. I remember that. But. But yeah, 50k average. It's crazy. Over, over 171km. We get to the finish and finally, you know, heartbreaking. But Matthew gets caught after Ricard. Couldn't, couldn't help him anymore. And we have the typical. The sprint. Right. So wins, Milan second, Arnold third. First time we see him back in a good spot. I'm happy to see that he was very, very happy after the finish. Yeah, but we talked about it and you guys talked about it already. On the move yesterday, I think Jonathan Milan versus Timberlake. I want to pull up the picture here of, of Merlier sprinting and, and Milan sprinting and if you look at the difference in frontal area. Bradley.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

You know, it's incredible.

[Phil Liggett]

It's crazy, isn't it?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And, and when you watch the overhead shot as well of the sprint, for a big, powerful guy, Jonathan Milan, he pedals a smaller gear than most. He almost looks under. Geared for the, for the power and the talk that he's producing in those sprints. But he's so unorthodox and he is. Yeah, it's different to watch, but it works for him at times. And then other times, obviously it doesn't. But you know, when it's as close as this and it's a drag race to the finish, you have to think that someone who's a lot more aero and a lot more efficient than they're sprinting and the way they apply the power and get the effort out will get the better of him every time.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, I mean, I, I haven't seen the, the speed in the sprint, but I'm gonna guess it's around 65, 67 kilometers per hour.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

And if you see that difference in frontal area, that makes a huge difference.

[Johan Brunel]

No, Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I mean even. Even when we were watching that sort of last 30k invisible on the front and. And Campenots, you could see how aerodynamic Campenuts was and. And watch him welt behind him taking quite a bit of wind on Campenaerts. But then four or five back we saw Milan, who's just compared to Campenaz, you know. So even in those crosswinds and all those line outs, Milan's are working that bit harder than everyone else.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Because of his.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

It's strange. It's strange if you think Bradley, that, you know, it's on his road bike because he's a pursuiter.

[Johan Brunel]

Right.

[Phil Liggett]

He's world champion.

[Bradley Wiggins]

World champion.

[Phil Liggett]

World world record holder and super arrow. Super.

[Johan Brunel]

I know, right? Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Or is he not as arrow as anybody else?

[Bradley Wiggins]

No, I mean, he is. It's just obviously on the road bike is a different thing.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And that. And there's a fine line on a road bike between being efficient and being aerodynamic in the modern day of cycling.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

For sure.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And. And being able to get that power out. But he actually looks taller than 6 foot 3. I mean, he's the same height as me. The same height as me and.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, well, you're tall. You're very tall. You're very tall.

[Johan Brunel]

So. Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

So are you. Are you. What are you? 196?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, one. 190. Yeah, 190. 191.

[Phil Liggett]

Okay. Well he's. 196.

[Johan Brunel]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Do you think that it could be that the fact that he's. I mean, he's obviously has a high cadence. Do you think that could be through to his track background that he.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, there's part of it, definitely.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I did what. They did a thing on these. Steve Perino did a thing on the NBC looking at his bike and I'm. It was funny. He rides 175 cranks on the road, which. Which are quite short for his height in. From my era anyway, but a lot bigger than most are using in this day and age.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Today. And today. That's long. That's super long.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah. Yeah. Huh.

[Phil Liggett]

Okay. Second stage win for Malir. Third stage win for Sedal Quickstep. As you. As you pointed out, also Bradley. Fourth stage win for Belgium.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Out of nine stages. It's been. It's been different in the past.

[Johan Brunel]

So.

[Phil Liggett]

Yeah, I mean, you know, so I guess Yesterday, on the move, you guys were talking about, you know, how Sudan quickstep had decreased in their quality. But, hey, out of nine stages, they won one third.

[Johan Brunel]

They are.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's incredible. They've won four stages in this race leading the white jersey competition.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Second on gc. So it's also. Yeah, yeah, so they're not doing too bad, considering a week ago we were saying what a disappointing tour they were having.

[Phil Liggett]

And, and thinking also, Bradley, that, you know, Malir comes here with one lead out guy. You know, it's a team concentrated on. I mean, it's actually, you know, initially when they announced that Malir was going to go to the Tour, nobody agreed. You know, Remco had agreed to it. But imagine what it does to the, to the, to the morale of a team to have after nine stages, three stage wins. Whatever they do now is a bonus. Right, yeah, and, and, and, yeah, Merlier man, I mean, he's like the, he's the, he's the super sprinter. Right. I mean, he's the pure sprinter. I could see when he was there in right position. I think Milan started a bit earlier, but he just went his own sprint. Usually, I think when Merlier wins a sprint, he kind of goes and takes off on the other side. Almost never in the slipstream. He took off to the left and it was a drag race and he won by more than a bike length. Right.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

He reminds me of the old school sprinters like Wilfred Nelson and Tom Steeles. He always finds a way to get to where he needs to be.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And, and when you're, when you're looking down on the sprint and you're concentrating on Milan and, and, you know, the people that you expect to be there, Melia just comes up and glides through a bit like Cav used to do and finds a way to win, which is, which is great. I love the sprinting like that. But, yeah, yeah, it's great.

[Phil Liggett]

You know, he's not, he's not the most expressive guy.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

If you look at his interviews, he's very, very, very reserved.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

I, I saw, I saw an interview, a very in depth interview with him and, and he says that's the way he is. You know, he's just happy in his bubble. He's not very expressive, you know, and, but, you know, he jokes when he. With his friends, but yeah, I mean, he could show a little bit more happiness. It's like, okay, yeah, I want another stage. His 12th stage. When 12th victory of the season. Already?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Okay. Before we talk about tomorrow's stage, I want to talk about our daily Phantom trivia. Bradley. Yesterday's question was which rider holds the record for the most green jersey competitions overall in the history of the Tour? The answer was quite easy. I think the answer is Peter Sagan. Today's question, I think, is also easy, especially for people who have watched the race on tv. Sir Mark Cavendish became the winningest rider in the history of the Tour last year with 35 wins, beating the famous record of Eddie Marx with 34 wins. The question is, why has Stage 9's finishing town Chateauroux unofficially been dubbed Cavendish Town? So why has Stage 9's finishing town Chateauroux unofficially been dubbed Cavendish Town? So send your best guess, or if you know the answer, send it to ventumracing.com and you will enter into the possibility. At the end of this Tour, we will draw a winner, a grand prize of $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike you want to purchase. If you don't want to wait until the end of the Tour, go on the website of Ventum. Ventum is offering a standing discount during the tour. You get 10% off the whole site for any bike using the code the move10 at checkout. If you want to purchase in NS1, the road frame road bike, you get 20% off with the code NS120. So ventumracing.com enter, enter your answer and you will enter into the competition tomorrow stage. We talked already about it. Stage 10. This is the first huge appointment. I mean. Yeah. In the second appointment. I think the first appointment was the time crown, right?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And a lot of meters of climbing tomorrow In. In a short.

[Phil Liggett]

Let's have a. Let's have a look. Let's have a look at the profile first. If Gabriel can pull up the profile.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, look at that.

[Phil Liggett]

165 kilometers. There are eight categories, climbs. 4,000, almost 4,500 meters.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Am I right to say that this could be more of a suffering fest for the majority of the peloton than any huge mountain?

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah, Yeah, I think so.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I think after the race, after the week we've had, and it goes straight up from the start as well, you know, it's.

[Phil Liggett]

This is.

[Bradley Wiggins]

These are. You know, in some. In some ways, these are sometimes harder for the lesser riders and the guys at the back than the mountain stages.

[Phil Liggett]

There's.

[Bradley Wiggins]

There's more of a. A clearer pattern to how the race develops in the mountains. If you're in the groupetto isn't there. You know, you've got an hour or so of suffering and you know exactly when the Groupetto will form or when you need it to form in order to get into the time delay. But days like this, this, this could go for three hours and just break from the back and you'll have rides everywhere over the road. So it's. These are the harder, harder ones. Because also with stages like this, because it's not a mountain day, you know, riders that don't expect to get through the stage will. Will have to do the job early on for the teams and be there as long as possible. So it's. They're the harder ones.

[Phil Liggett]

Definitely, yeah. Seven. Seven category two climbs and one category three climbs. Seven category two climbs. And they're all like, just not long enough. I mean, so that it's basically accessible to anybody who has good legs. Because it's not super steep, it's between six and seven and a half percent, all of them, except the last, the last climb to the finish, that's three kilometers at 8%, which, you know, I think that's where we're going to see a battle between Jonas and today. Then the other question is, will we see the battle between Jonas and today for the stage win, or does a breakaway have a chance tomorrow?

[Bradley Wiggins]

I mean, that's a good question, isn't it? It's either way, if a break does last to the finish tomorrow, I still think we'll see a battle of some sort behind for sure. So, you know, it's. And, and the, the what all eyes will be fixated on tomorrow, it's that battle between Jonas and Tade. I mean, I think by nature of the fact that those guys will be at each other tomorrow. I think on the natural, you know, for what Visma want to do and what they've stated they want to do constantly in this race, the natural inertia and the speed of the peloton in doing that will mean that nothing goes to the finish. But we saw it the other day when Ben Healey won, you know, the right move, the right break. But this is, this is on a different level tomorrow, this stage, compared to, to when Ben Healey won. So, you know, and, and you got to think as well, if, if we are racing hard tomorrow, which I'm no doubt they will, that in order to, for a break, to get a gap and maintain a gap on these type of roads, you know, we know the power difference that they have to be doing, you know, to attack off of a roaring peloton that's, you know, everyone's trying to get in a break. The power you have to sustain once you've got that gap is immense, you know, and it's. There's only a certain amount of rides that can do it and it will go a la pedal, as the French say.

[Phil Liggett]

And especially already 10 days of. 10 days within the tour, you know, like by the 10th day is normally when like half the peloton is dead already, you know.

[Johan Brunel]

Yeah.

[Phil Liggett]

Even if we didn't have the mountains yet. So everybody's dead and there's not, there's not very many riders who can make it into the breakaway. And then on top of that, I think it depends on how aggressive Bismarck wants to be. Yeah, sometimes I don't really understand their tactics, so, you know, they probably go again hard, especially in the final. But it may also be that Visma actually has a rider in the break and at some point during the stage they decide, okay, we're going to keep this rider up there and try to get the stage win. They haven't won anything yet. That's not what they're coming for. But I think at some point you also want a stage win as a team. Right. So it's going to be interesting. Anyway, we'll be back tomorrow, Bradley, for stage 10. A huge day. And thank you as every day for being here and. And I speak soon.

[Progressive Insurance]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Libsyn Ads]

Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.