What Was Behind Van der Poel & Alpecin's Massive Gamble? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 9 | THEMOVE

Summary

Podcast Summary: THEMOVE - Episode: What Was Behind Van der Poel & Alpecin's Massive Gamble? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 9

Release Date: July 13, 2025
Host: Lance Armstrong
Guests: George Hincapie, Spencer Martin, Bradley Wiggins, Michael Brandt (CEO of Ketone IQ)

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Introduction

In this episode of THEMOVE, Lance Armstrong delves deep into the strategic maneuvers of Matthew van der Poel and the Alpecin team during Stage 9 of the Tour de France 2025. Joined by seasoned cyclists George Hincapie, Spencer Martin, and Bradley Wiggins, the discussion spans from race strategies and team dynamics to broader topics like prize money in sports and the role of nutritional supplements in athletic performance.

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Van der Poel & Alpecin’s Bold Strategy

Early Morning Anecdote and Initial Reactions
The episode opens with Lance recounting an unexpected move by Matthew van der Poel:

• Lance Armstrong [00:00]: "You never think that Matthew van der Poel is going to go at kilometer zero with a teammate. With a teammate. I didn't know what I was watching."

George Hincapie's Insights on the Breakaway
George Hincapie elaborates on the impact of van der Poel's early break:

• George Hincapie [00:07]: "I think he shocked the whole peloton. They probably thought he was joking. Before they knew it, he's got four or five minutes."

He emphasizes the advantage gained from teamwork and efficient riding, especially in harsh conditions:

• George Hincapie [00:07]: "Being a hot day, it's a huge advantage. They got caught at the end, but it made for a very, very exciting stage."

Spencer Martin on Retaliatory Moves
Spencer brings up commentary suggesting van der Poel's effort was retaliation:

• Spencer Martin [10:36]: "There was some discussion that he did it in retaliation for Milan's move yesterday, where Milan lost 10 points... But I don't know how true that is."

Bradley Wiggins’ Perspective on Team Strategy
Bradley Wiggins provides a tactical analysis of the situation:

• Bradley Wiggins [12:06]: "If you could listen to the comms. They didn't know what was going on. Takes the intermediate points. That's kind of a little bit of a finger in the eye."

He questions the motive and sustainability of such aggressive moves, hinting at deeper team dynamics.

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Sprint Races and Team Dynamics

Success of Sudak Quickstep and Team Strategies
The conversation shifts to team performances beyond Alpecin, highlighting Sudak Quickstep's dominance:

• Lance Armstrong [15:02]: "They have three teams that have won seven of those nine stages."

Impact on Sprint Finishes
George notes the uniqueness of the current sprint dynamics:

• George Hincapie [16:36]: "We haven't seen sprints like this in Tour de France in a long time. There's no dominance in sprint lead-outs, making it really interesting."

Concerns Over Rider Fatigue and Future Stages
Discussion around rider fatigue, particularly for van der Poel, and its implications for subsequent stages:

• Spencer Martin [36:14]: "Today's was 174 kilometers. Three and a half hours. Under three and a half hours."

The high average speeds and the physical toll on riders are emphasized as critical factors moving forward.

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Prize Money in Cycling vs. Other Sports

Comparative Analysis of Prize Purses
Lance Armstrong engages in a detailed comparison of prize money across major sports events:

• Lance Armstrong [25:08]: "Win the race in 2005. Roughly half a million. Basically the same today... Wimbledon this year is £3 million."

Gender Equality in Prize Money
The discussion underscores the advancements in gender pay equity in sports like tennis:

• Lance Armstrong [28:25]: "They have equal prize money for men and women... In cycling, there's nobody that says, hey, this is a joke."

Implications for Cycling’s Future
George Hincapie reflects on the growth and financial aspects of cycling:

• George Hincapie [26:33]: "The sport is not getting smaller, it's getting bigger... Prize money matters."

The panel debates the stagnation in cycling’s prize money growth compared to explosive increases in other sports, highlighting the need for structural changes.

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Ketone IQ Sponsor Segment

Introduction to Ketone IQ
A significant portion of the episode features an in-depth discussion with Michael Brandt, CEO of Ketone IQ, focusing on the role of ketones in athletic performance:

• Michael Brandt [48:02]: "Ketones are part of human physiology... We've figured out how to ferment it, make it into a shot, make it cost-effective..."

Benefits and Studies
Brandt highlights the scientifically-backed benefits of ketones, including improved sprint power and reduced fatigue:

• Lance Armstrong [50:47]: "Average sprint power boosted by 19%, peak power, 13%. Fatigue being cut by 10%."

He discusses collaboration with Team Visma and ongoing research demonstrating ketones' effectiveness not just for elite athletes but for general well-being.

Future of Ketones in Sports
Looking ahead, Brandt envisions ketones becoming a staple in various sports beyond cycling:

• Michael Brandt [55:37]: "Ketones will be everywhere... Not just elite athletes, but broadly... Athletes in all of the big five major leagues using the product."

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Personal Stories and Team Interactions

Power Outage Incident
Lance shares a personal anecdote about a household power outage, reflecting on broader themes of societal vulnerabilities:

• Lance Armstrong [08:25]: "Power grid... How they get us."

Team Banter and Light-Hearted Moments
The episode is peppered with camaraderie and humor among the hosts, including teasing and playful negotiations:

• George Hincapie [28:19]: "The professor's got haters... We've got to get harder questions."

These interactions humanize the hosts and provide a glimpse into the tight-knit nature of the cycling community.

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Looking Ahead to Stage 10

Preview of Upcoming Challenges
The team anticipates Stage 10’s grueling climbs and strategizes on potential outcomes:

• George Hincapie [40:12]: "Most climbers are thinking about survival and maintaining their positions."

Strategic Considerations
Discussions revolve around the strategies Team Visma might employ to support their leaders, especially in the absence of key riders like Almeida:

• Spencer Martin [42:09]: "If Visma had Jurgensen in there and Simon Yates and Sepkos and Pogies by himself..."

Expectations for Exciting Racing
The hosts express excitement for the aggressive racing and the potential for game-changing movements:

• Spencer Martin [40:49]: "50% of the peloton are going, oh, my God, I don't know if I can... 25% are making breakaways."

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Interactive Trivia and Listener Engagement

Daily Trivia Questions
The episode features engaging trivia segments to test listeners’ knowledge:

• Lance Armstrong [43:25]: "Ventum Daily Trivia question: Sir Mark Cavendish became the winningest rider in the history of the Tour last year with 35 wins. Why has stage nine's finishing town, Chateau Rue, been dubbed Cavendish Town?"

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Conclusion

In this episode, THEMOVE offers a comprehensive analysis of strategic moves in the Tour de France, the financial dynamics of professional cycling compared to other sports, and the evolving role of nutritional supplements in athletic performance. With insightful discussions, expert opinions, and engaging interactions, listeners are provided with an insider’s perspective on one of the world’s most iconic cycling events.

Notable Quotes:

• George Hincapie [00:07]: "You can't give a guy like Matthew van der Poel four or five minutes with a teammate because you know they're going to go all in."

• Lance Armstrong [05:32]: "50% of Americans struggle with sleep. That's a major issue."

• Michael Brandt [48:02]: "Ketones are part of human physiology... Our job is to lead the way."

• Lance Armstrong [50:47]: "Average sprint power boosted by 19%, peak power, 13%. Fatigue being cut by 10%."

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Join the Conversation:
Stay tuned to THEMOVE for more in-depth analyses, insider stories, and expert interviews that transform every listener from fan and spectator into the ultimate insider.

Transcript

[Lance Armstrong]

You never think that Matthew Vanderpool is going to go at kilometer zero with a teammate. With a teammate. I didn't know what I was watching.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, I think he shocked. He shocked the whole peloton. So much so that they didn't even react. They probably thought he was joking. Like, okay, what's going on here? Before they knew it, he's got four or five minutes. You can't give a guy like Matthew van der Poel four or five minutes with a teammate because you know they're going to go all in, riding together efficiently, getting feeds from the cars all day long, being a hot day, it's a huge advantage. They got caught at the end, but it made for a very, very exciting stage.

[Lance Armstrong]

Very exc. All right everybody, welcome back to the Move podcast. Talking about stage nine. Alan, what do we do? Stage nine. From Chino to Chateau. From Chinon to Chateau. Otherwise known as Mark Cavendish's town. Apparently they have also. They've given him co billing on that. But before I want to show a picture, I snapped a picture of the coverage earlier. But joined by Sir Bradley Wiggins, Mr. George Hincapi. Also, yet another day without the famous cowboy hat. Right. That he had to take a. Take a lien on his house to buy here in Aspen, Colorado. I remember it one of these days and it's coming. And the professor, Spencer Martin.

[George Hincapie]

I did want to mention that was Cavendish's first Tour de France win. I was there with him, I helped lead him out for that win. Really exciting. We were new team. Team Columbia, small team. And boom. Wins this stage of the Tour de France.

[Lance Armstrong]

Now let's look at. I mean this is amazing. Now I. I'm assuming this is up year round, right? They did it. Are. What do you reckon? Do you reckon they put it up for the stage today?

[Spencer Martin]

Because it doesn't look like the same material as the top one. Sort of purse, Perspex, something like that. Cardboard.

[Lance Armstrong]

It does look a little. You're right on that. You're right nonetheless. That's. That's pretty sick.

[George Hincapie]

That is awesome.

[Spencer Martin]

That's great.

[Lance Armstrong]

There was once a town. I did Ragbright many, many times. But there was a town called Armstrong, you know, or something like that. And so I took a picture. I thought that was cool. Where's that? So Mark Cavendish can eat his heart out. Town in Iowa. Where is Iowa? No, I was gonna say I thought.

[Spencer Martin]

It was in Massachusetts. Armstrong, Massachusetts.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm sure there's an Armstrong in every state. Who. Anyways, fantastic win by Tim Marilya. His second stage Win. Congratulations, Johan Brunel. You got one right on outcomes. Spencer, you have been unseated for the day. I know.

[George Hincapie]

I fired him up yesterday on our show. I went all Americana.

[Lance Armstrong]

I was really. I kind of got sick of that back and forth on the group chat.

[George Hincapie]

We even side texted, Johan and I, but we made up. We're.

[Lance Armstrong]

It was getting heated and for a minute I thought, oh, we may have to have a. Bring in a counselor, some sort of therapist here on the team.

[George Hincapie]

Hr. Where's our HR department?

[Lance Armstrong]

So, gee, I know we were at dinner last night and of course Bradley and I are non consumers of ethanol in some form or fashion, but we're happy about that. But you were going. I mean, what's. I mean, is this thing getting all. You're just. You're hammering the vino.

[George Hincapie]

I didn't. I didn't even see you. But I slept like a baby. I slept the best.

[Spencer Martin]

Same here. I had a great sleep also.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, I slept the best I've slept in months.

[Lance Armstrong]

Would it have to do with this? What is this? The dream shot? Because Matt from the feed gave us a shot of this and essentially I've been a great sleeper my whole life. My wife is one of the worst sleepers ever. And so I'm always interested in these sleep hacks. But he gave me this shot of this stuff and you guys apparently took it and slept like babies.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. Matt came up with it to try to fix his own sleeping problems. And like you said, it's called a dream shot and I'm highly, highly impressed with it.

[Lance Armstrong]

You seem rested.

[George Hincapie]

I am. Best sleep. I've had this, this, this whole Tour de France. And today is the official day we're launching this product, the world premiere for this product. You heard it first. On the move.

[Lance Armstrong]

So as I get older, and you know, most people who get older, it's harder and harder for them to sleep. And I live with a person who struggles with sleep, you know.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, it's. It's great. It's got tart cherry in there, which we see the guys drinking every day. You started drinking that in Tour de France a long time ago. Time ago. Magnesium, which we all know helps with sleep. Secret new peptide that stops you from waking up and if you do, you fall right back asleep.

[Spencer Martin]

Tad A is using it. Jonas is using it. The tool. Great stuff.

[Lance Armstrong]

Really. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Helps with reduced inflammation.

[George Hincapie]

Well, they're using tart cherry.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Tart cherry.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, that's what they're using. And this is the main. One of the main products in here. Yeah, Ingredients.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow. So what I think you'll notice is that. And this does happen with me, you know, this is what. What happens when you get to be 54 and.

[George Hincapie]

And.

[Lance Armstrong]

And you don't drink alcohol anymore and you hydrate a lot, you get up a lot. This is, this is. Now we're getting into sensitive territory. Get up a lot, take a leak a lot. It's a little weird, but.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're taking one of those?

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, I'm taking these.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

I had one last night. Great.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, it's available today. You heard it first. On the move. Better morning for 399. I mean, 399. I paid whatever to sleep well at night.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's nothing.

[George Hincapie]

And listeners today save 20%. No code needed. The discount is automatic. Go to the feed dot com.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, that's a game changer. This is a. This is a true fact. 50% of Americans struggle with sleep. 50%. Think about that. I mean, think about that in terms of. That's a. That's a. I wouldn't call it an epidemic, but that is a major issue. I know that when I get behind. Now we're just riffing. When I get behind on sleep, I'm a different person. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's going up all the time. They reckon next year should be 55.

[Lance Armstrong]

Come on. And you know what else? Speaking of the feed.

[Spencer Martin]

Hey, don't forget to feed the animals.

[Lance Armstrong]

I gotta say, I like that. I. Whoops. Trucking love. I love. I love those hits. I love those spots. Also today, brought to you by Timeline. As someone who's trained hard most of his life, I've learned that real performance doesn't just come from the gym. It starts at the cellular level. That's why I take Mito Pure by Timeline. It's a supplement that supports cellular energy by helping your body renew its mitochondria, those tiny little powerhouses inside your cells that start to slow down as you age. I'm a little insecure about highlighting my age as much as I am. The science is strong. Mitopure is clinically shown to improve muscle strength in just a few months, and it supports healthy aging at the cellular level, which is something I care more about each and every year. If you want to stay strong and support your body at its foundation, go check out Mito Pure. Head on over to timeline.comthemove that is timeline.comthemove get 20% off for our listeners. Timeline.comthemove last one here for a sec. Also today, brought to you by Roka. Of course, if you're watching the show, you can see it. I'm rocking my Roka readers. What did we decide these were? What? At least these are the what sus. No, we're not talking about the strength anymore. The Lockharts. These are the Lockharts. This is the Roka Lockhart.

[George Hincapie]

This is that, and these are the Havanas, which you've been trying to steal since I got here.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, and I sidebar. I mean, if I didn't know any better, I would actually think you're from Havana a lot of times, huh?

[George Hincapie]

Close.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're going to Google, you goony Google.

[George Hincapie]

You know, I got no comment.

[Lance Armstrong]

Isn't that from Scarface or something?

[George Hincapie]

Goony goo. Yeah, no, that's from the Goonies, I think.

[Lance Armstrong]

Get out of here. Back to Roka. Their prescription glasses have the exact same technology as their performance glasses. They are unbelievably lightweight. The best optics on the market. They never slip, no matter how sweaty you get. They are hand built to order in my hometown of Austin, Texas. For once, you don't have to compromise on performance or style. And the way they build them, you can pick anything you like and know that they work for marathons, workouts, trail running, high rocks. Whatever you're into, you're going to go go. The Move listeners get 20% off. Just go to roka.com, that's r o k a roca.com. enter the code the Move at checkout.

[George Hincapie]

What a stage.

[Lance Armstrong]

What, what a state. I mean, listen, we're going to get into the stage, but I just have to set this up because I woke up behind today. I was just off. All right, so I had this golf thing, last few days. Rallied yesterday. Anyways, don't want to talk about that. Olivia, my daughter came home from summer camp last night very excited to see her. She had this allergy thing, breakout. So we're a little freaked out by that. And then we're sitting at home and the power went out. Like all the power in the house. Dark, pitch black, couldn't see anything. And I'm like, okay, this is. This is, this is weird. And it never came back on. So I was. It was. We were all just like, well, I guess we'll go to sleep.

[George Hincapie]

What time was that?

[Lance Armstrong]

That was at about 10:30, which is time to go to bed anyways. But. So I was a little thrown off. Now, another just personal opinion on this. This is how they get us, right? We all think about bombs and missiles and guns. No, no, no. It's the power source, the power grid that's how they get us. No communication, no light.

[George Hincapie]

Bro, why are you so dark here?

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know, because I was talking about how I woke up, where I was going with this. Was that when I got up this morning, groggy, I wake up to Vanderpool and his teammate off the front flying, five minute gap, and then I start to watch. And they apparently went at Kilometer 0, which is a move that, you know this is a Jackie Duran move, right? Jackie Duran, kilometer zero. He would start. We all know where kilometer zero is. You kind of start to see it. And he would take a run on the peloton just to get a gap and people would let him go. You never think that Matthew Vanderpool is going to go at kilometer zero with a teammate. With a teammate. I didn't know what I was watching.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, I think he shocked. He shocked the whole peloton. So much so that they. They didn't even re. They probably thought he was joking. Like, okay, what's going on here? Before they knew it, he's got four or five minutes. You can't give a guy like Matthew Vanpoel four or five minutes with a teammate because you know they're going to go all in, riding together efficiently, getting feeds from the cars all day long. Being a hot day, it's a huge advantage. They got caught at the end, but it made for a very, very exciting stage.

[Lance Armstrong]

Very exciting. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

There was some discussion on the commentary that I was watching that he did it in retaliation for the move that Milan pulled on him yesterday, where Milan lost 10 points. Was it on the points competition? And that was his retaliation. That was what Italian commentary was saying today, that that was a way of going out and taking the points at the intermediate and then carrying on after that. But I don't know how true that is. I mean, it's very difficult to. I mean, that's. That's one hell of an effort if.

[Lance Armstrong]

It was a retaliation effort for a guy who we've remarked has been given his all and looking tired.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, what week he's had, what.

[George Hincapie]

A week, it's already two. Two stages where he was in the breakaway, essentially from kilometer zero. Yeah, those efforts, you know, take it out of you.

[Lance Armstrong]

It doesn't matter how much of a beast you are. That adds up. But so what is the retaliation? To take the intermediate points or to.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I think the thinking was, and I think you got to be maybe a little thicker skin than this if you're Alice. But they get bumped in the sprint. Milan loses 10 points in the Green jersey classification. Maybe that matters, maybe not. I guess the thought is we're going to go in the break. Little trek. They were confused. If you could listen to the comms. They didn't know what was going on. Like, they were just like, okay, guys, watch. We don't really understand what's going on here. Takes the intermediate points. That's kind of a little bit of a finger in the. In the eye. But then I guess they made Little Track burn their whole lead out, chasing them down. And then, like, we didn't really see Sudal quickstep working that much. They're sitting back. Guess it didn't matter because there was no lead out anyway for me earlier. But then Merlier wins because Milan's burned his lead out.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

And I guess that's the retaliation. Does that seem a little like, I don't know if you guys ever met Christopher Hoof, the manager of Alpecin. Pretty calculating guy. That's where this loses me a little bit.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. And Johan is chiming in on the group chat because he's watching the show live. Retaliation is not true. Vanderpool said that Milan had done nothing wrong yesterday. So, yeah, who knows what to believe? But nonetheless, Herculean effort.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And. And one of those efforts, at first you're like, it's a real head scratcher. And then at the end, you're like, he's trying to. He drops it. The teammate gets dropped. He's all alone. And as. As is often the case in these sprint finishes. It's coming down to a kilometer, 2 kilometers, 3 kilometers, and you're just rooting for the. I personally was like, come on, bro, you got this. Anything, do something.

[Spencer Martin]

And funny. Vanderpoel gets caught. 1k to go. Rykant gets the most combative of the day. So these teammate. So Van der Poel has got a tough morning tomorrow on the tough stage. And yeah, it seems strange, doesn't it, to think what he's gained from that, other than the potential of a stage win and. But was it ever going to happen? I mean, it was a long, tall order to. To think he could stay out there for the whole stage.

[George Hincapie]

A lot of. A lot of things could have happened where he might have had a chance. That's right. You know, I think we saw some random teams go up there and start pulling. We don't know if it was just to stay in the front to get, you know, be safe from the crosswinds, or just to try to go for the win, which they had very little chance of. That but all of those factors ultimately leaded to him getting caught at the end. I mean, if it was just Litotrek doing the work for, like, we saw for a while, they probably wouldn't have caught him.

[Lance Armstrong]

It is one of the most common questions I get from the average person who just watches cycling, really, in July, that it's a top three question, like, how is it that they always. This breakaway goes and that they always catch them right at the end? I get that question a lot. And. And it. And it happens a lot. I guess at the end of the day, it's just a. A math equation. Right. You're knowing. And they were factoring in other things. They knew that the last kilometer or two net net was slightly uphill. It's gonna be virtually impossible for a solo rider. Doesn't matter who you are. But they just start to calculate the time. And generally speaking, what they work off. 10 seconds? A kilometer.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. We thought it was a minute, a kilometer. You know, particularly in that last 15, 20, depending how many are in the front, that.

[George Hincapie]

That's the X factor. There is Matthew Vanderpoel even. You saw Tim Lear's interview. He's like, give a guy like that five minutes, you don't know what's gonna happen. Made it very stressful. Very hard day for the peloton, obviously, for Vanderpoel as well. But this was a much harder day than I think people anticipated.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Modern equipment's changed that calculus too, because now a solo rider can go closer to the speed of a peloton than they used to be able to go.

[Lance Armstrong]

And that's what.

[Bradley Wiggins]

You don't see the big gaps very much anymore. People hold them close.

[Lance Armstrong]

A couple of things do stand out. George, you will be happy to know Quinn Simmons did not do all the work.

[George Hincapie]

Love it. I know.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know if. If. If those folks over there at Little Track watched the show and got. Got a full taste of your ire, but he did not have to do all the work. So I hope you feel better about that today.

[George Hincapie]

I do. I do.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Rattled some cages over there.

[Lance Armstrong]

Second thing, Tim Merlier, second stage win, third for. For Sudal. Quick step. We. Yesterday, we were sort of talking about House of Horrors there. Hey. Three stage wins. A rider sitting second on gc White jersey.

[Spencer Martin]

Competition.

[Lance Armstrong]

White jersey. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And as a nation, they had three in the top 10. Today. They got the King of the Mountains competition. They were in that with Tim Wellens. So they're. They're not doing too bad, are they?

[Lance Armstrong]

No.

[Bradley Wiggins]

What do we Call them the best worst team in sport.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, I mean, they always, they always come, come through in the Tour de France. I mean, even if they had, like we said this year, the classics were not great for them. But when you, when you don't see them win a stage of the Tour de France, it's very, very rare.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. And the other thing that's we've seen the last quite a few years is now we've done nine stages. You have three teams have won seven of those nine stages. And then the two outliers are EF and Lidl Trek. But where did we have it at? So UAE is 1 2, Alpecin is 1 2, and now Sudok Quickstep is 1 3. Again. Team we were sort of writing off yesterday has got the most stage wins of this Tour de France. Merlier was, was pooped at the finish. Just finish. Maybe that's the way he chills and that's his vibe.

[George Hincapie]

I was like, bro, it's wild.

[Lance Armstrong]

Stage win.

[George Hincapie]

Come on. It's wild watching these sprints. We haven't seen sprints like this in Tour de France in a long time. Where the favorites are on their own. The last 2K, totally on their own, bumping and grinding, quacking. A lot of that has to do with Phillipson being gone. Obviously if he was still in the race, you'd have Vanipole and a couple guys with him. But man, to see Milan totally alone, Malir totally alone, it's. It makes it for even more exciting sprint, I think, because you don't really know. There's no, there's no dominance in sprint lead outs with these guys thus far. So it's making it really interesting.

[Spencer Martin]

The one that surprised me was the loss of Wout Van Aert. You know, that was the ideal conditions for him. But is that with a view to tomorrow?

[Lance Armstrong]

Did you.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, he got dropped, didn't he?

[George Hincapie]

He did most of the work to try to split the peloton there, which again, you got to start questioning, like, why, why are you guys using so much energy on, you know, these insignificant attacks? Maybe they thought it would have made more damage. Maybe they wanted to isolate poker chart. But on a flat stage like that, you know, on a transition stage, so to speak, right before a really tough stage tomorrow. I. I don't love seeing them burning so many matches. All this Jonas was pulling. Yeah, well, there was a moment where.

[Lance Armstrong]

Wow was caught out.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

At least what I saw on tv, which for a guy like him, caught out in the crosswinds and he was doing he gave it full willy to get across to that front group.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Who this should be second nature.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Bradley asked. So when Visma's doing this in the crosswinds, who are they trying to catch out?

[Lance Armstrong]

Is it a question?

[George Hincapie]

I think they're trying to isolate Picacha. They probably know they can't. But even if you do, I mean, if you're a group of 20 guys, like, you're not going to drop Pagacha on a flat road.

[Lance Armstrong]

No.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's like one of the best classics writers in the world.

[George Hincapie]

It just doesn't make sense.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, no, yeah, you got to get.

[George Hincapie]

Up because they were going on real.

[Lance Armstrong]

Real early to catch him out. Let's just.

[Spencer Martin]

But Eunice was on the front again.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's not just the team's money matches. Jonas is burning matches.

[Lance Armstrong]

This is, this is a different sport. It's a, it's a different dynamic and, but, but if we, if we do want to touch on today and, and quote unquote, getting him or catching him out, Almeida out of the race. Right. His, his, his best lieutenant, his best climber. Spencer, you've been on record the third best stage racer in the world. In your opinion. Crashed a couple of days ago. I had a broken rib. Who knows if that's a rib or ribs. Doesn't matter. For anybody that's ever broken ribs, it's a weird injury. I mean that first day you're like, oh, this is a little sore. Day two, you cannot laugh, you cannot breathe, you cannot cough, you cannot sleep. And oftentimes it hurts. Depending if you're eating, everything hurts. And then you go to the doctor, you know, you break something, you go to the doctor, say, hey doc, fix this. You go, you break a rib or two. You go to the doctor and he's like, time. Yeah, it's just going to take time. It's an awful injury and we saw him pull out today. That, that might be the biggest. When you're talking about the overall tour and the GC and the yellow jersey, that might be the historic, the podium.

[George Hincapie]

Because he was a contender for the podium.

[Lance Armstrong]

Certainly could have. That might be the biggest story of the stage.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Similar to last year actually. Remember they lost Juana USO in the first week and they were down a climbing domestique. So oddly now we're like back to a similar situation a year later.

[George Hincapie]

But let's not forget about Simon Yates, Matteo Jurgensen, Sep Kuss.

[Lance Armstrong]

Are you talking about the podium or you?

[George Hincapie]

I'm talking about like the strongest world class climbers that Jonas has in his back pocket.

[Lance Armstrong]

This. This has the ability to affect the race, but I don't blame him. Ribs suck.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

Time.

[Lance Armstrong]

Nobody wants to hear that. All right, we're going to take a quick peacock break. We'll be back in 2 and 32. All right. And we're back. A couple of things. Special treat today for our audio listeners and YouTube viewers. The CEO of Ketone IQ, Michael Brandt's going to come on and. And I'm really curious about some of this research they're doing. So that will be towards the tail end of the show for. For those participants, another update. The team back here behind the curtain has corrected me. I don't know what I was thinking. Goony Google.

[George Hincapie]

Where did that come from?

[Lance Armstrong]

I know it. Apparently this just. I told you. All right. And I was looking for a little sympathy. I'm off a little today. But that was from Scarface. No, it's from an Eddie Murphy stand up, you goony Google. I mean, how do I go from Eddie Murphy stand up to Scarface?

[George Hincapie]

And how did you go from saying I'm from Havana and calling me Goony Goo? They just don't relate at all.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, I guess Scarface is from.

[Lance Armstrong]

Because scarf is kind of like a Cuban Latin. I don't know.

[George Hincapie]

By the way, isn't there a new Scarface coming out?

[Lance Armstrong]

That would be good.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, they remake a bunch of great move old movies. That would be a good one.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. I actually thought of something last night. You know how you dump the man dumped me two days ago, said he's never going to ride a bike with me again. And it's kind of really hurt my feelings. But your reasoning behind it. He said I was half wheeling him. So for the viewers out there, hopefully most of you guys know what half willingness. You ride half a wheel in front of somebody else. It's quite annoying. But with Mr. Lance Armstrong, half wheeling means in his mind, which I can't understand. If you're not a half wheel behind him and you are equal to him, you are half wheeling him. That's Lance Armstrong's half wheeling. He's made up a whole new version. I'm not kidding. It's true. Made up a whole new version of half wheeling. I mean, Bradley and I were discussing this at dinner last night. You have your own version of half wheeling. It's not fair. I need another chance.

[Lance Armstrong]

Is this another one of these things where you're in cahoots with the team back here and you've got some photo that you've doctored up. And you say, oh, look, look. See, exhibit A is this. Look. You ride a lot. I don't. Nor do you, Bradley. So we, we. We're done. Like we're gym rats, you know, we're training for later in life, huh?

[Spencer Martin]

We've let it go.

[George Hincapie]

Got.

[Lance Armstrong]

Was just a bad day. I did. I felt bad. I was on my gravel bike. I didn't think that mattered. I now actually think it does matter. Right. So I might walk it back. I might ride it again, but I'm gonna need a little more time in the saddle. Let's see. We are. We do have some fun questions here towards the end. This, this is one. And as George, if you. George has two screens on the desk. He's got his computer, which is probably what he should have for the job that we are doing. But if you're watching, you see he has another screen, right? And that would be him watching the Wimbledon final. And now that I say this, I am a little curious. Is a rematch of the French Open.

[George Hincapie]

Rematch.

[Lance Armstrong]

Big boys are beasts, right? Center and Alcaraz, how we doing?

[George Hincapie]

It's shaping up to be similar. I mean, they're. Alcaraz is up 5, 4, and they're 40. 40. And center's on serve, so he's about to tie that. It's gonna be probably another four or five hour.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, speak. Speaking of shaping up, we. I believe it was in the preview show because we touched on prize money and we touched on prize money for the overall classification for the Tour de France, and we just sort of scratched our heads and thought, well, that hat really. I won the race in 2005. It was roughly right around €500,000 dollars. And this year is maybe 550,000. Right. For the win, for the overall win. And of course, this is. Cycling is. And we're gonna. We're gonna have a little discussion around and we're going to compare cycling. We're going to use the three big events in the month of July, the Tour de France, Wimbledon, and the Open Championship, which this year is. Is at Royal Port Rush or Port. Whatever, one of those. And so I just think it's a fun discussion and it highlights how we just haven't evolved when it comes to prize money. Prize money matters. Right? And despite the fact that in cycling it is very traditional, the winner of the Tour doesn't take a cut. He gives all the money to his team. That's neither here nor there. The prize money, they should all be in line. So just. Right. We said the Tour really hasn't Changed. I think you saw a chart, said it.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. I think we're going to pull up the graph, which actually, I need to. I just need to shout out. The person who said it sent it to me.

[Lance Armstrong]

But let me. We'll just use some. I'll just. I'll just lay these out there for you. So I just told you, win the race in 2005. Roughly half a million. Basically the same today. If we. If we just talk about the Open Championships, which of course is. Is a golf event which starts this Thursday. Tiger woods won the Open Championship in 2005. He won 720,000. It's probably pounds that Wikipedia is not telling me here, but just call it 720. Right. The winner of the Open Championship last year, Xander Schoffle, £3.1 million. Right. So we're talking four plus X. They don't have the prize money listed for this year. If you jump on over here to Wimbledon.

[George Hincapie]

Oh, there's the graph. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

The prize money in 2005 for Wimbledon was £630,000. The prize money for Wimbledon this year, which will be decided today, is £3 million. All right, so almost 5x or close to 5x now. What. What are we doing?

[George Hincapie]

That graph, by the way, was from Stuart. Stuart Niche, who wrote a really good article on the same subject. Shout out to Stuart on the sport is not. The sport is not getting smaller.

[Lance Armstrong]

On Substack. On Substack in the pre show. George, like, y' all ever heard of this Substack. That guy. That's. We said.

[George Hincapie]

You misunderstood me. Misunderstood me.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yo, this dude, this.

[George Hincapie]

Anyway, the sport is not getting smaller, it's getting bigger. And we. I mean, they come. The riders should be unpaid. But by the way, Tour to France, prize money for our viewers out there, it's sort of insignificant for the guy who actually wins the race like y' all did, because you never take a piece of it. You always just give your share to the team and the staff or as a thank you for all the hard work. And then I. You told an interesting story before.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So, I mean, in 2012, obviously, I won Paris, Nice, the Dauphine and the Tour de France, all in France that year. Plus the stage wins that we won in those races as a team and myself. So the. The prize money gets designated to me. So it goes into the. The apart, which is run by the team, and a bank account, which is run by team. But on paper, when I put my tax return in, it comes to me. That's the prize money I've won in France. So I had a French tax bill that year for 2012 based on the figures that were deemed.

[Lance Armstrong]

Your name was on the chat. So I.

[Spencer Martin]

And. And I didn't get a split of any of the prize money because 50.

[George Hincapie]

Right.

[Spencer Martin]

Where's 50? UK tax. But French tax bill. I had to pay a UK tax bill because that was deemed as income, which comes with a UK bank account. And French.

[Lance Armstrong]

French tax bill.

[George Hincapie]

That's what we in the bike world called clicked.

[Lance Armstrong]

You didn't call the boys and to pass the hat say, hey, boys.

[George Hincapie]

No, no.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's just.

[Spencer Martin]

It's the way it is. And I know the guys that live in Monaco sort of 10 years ago, certainly riding for sky had some tax issues in France because they train every day in France even though they live in Monaco. So it's deemed the worst day in France.

[Lance Armstrong]

Whoa. Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

So it cost you money to win the Tour.

[Lance Armstrong]

I want to go the other way pretty much. Not far from Italy. Yeah. May want to take a right instead of a left.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But here's a question for you guys. So why is Wimbledon. I'm seeing in US dollars, 72.6 million total prize purse, Tour de France, 2.9 US both. Why is Wimbledon increasing the prize money? Is probably not because they're nice, right. And they're like, hey, we really want these players to be rich. They're probably doing it because there's competitive pressure from other major tournaments. No, there's no pressure in cycling.

[George Hincapie]

And stronger union. And there's.

[Lance Armstrong]

And there's a players union.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And they are asking for those things. And most importantly in this discussion, and it was just about damn time when it happened. Is equal prize money for men and women. And as we've seen. But I just. I did. I do have to point out same prize money, men and women in Wimbledon. The American lost unfortunately yesterday in straight sets. It took 54 minutes. So this young lady who won, I don't even know who won because I don't follow tennis. She made 4 million bucks an hour. That's pretty good hourly rate. But they have. They have unions and they have representatives and people that. That say to the events, the organizers, whoever, say, no, no, we care about this. In cycling, there's nobody that says, hey, this is a joke.

[George Hincapie]

But aso, well, their profits have gone up well, significantly bank.

[Bradley Wiggins]

If they don't come to an agreement with Wimbledon, Wimbledon knows they won't show up. ASO knows no one is going to not show up to the Tour.

[Lance Armstrong]

They have the power.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But why. So let's get Creative here. If I'm piff and I want to make a splash in cycling, why not just buy the Giro, move the Giro to the tour slot. 20 million bucks to start this year to tell you, like, then we're talking pressure on aso, and then you force ASO to sell to you.

[Lance Armstrong]

Jeez.

[George Hincapie]

The outcome fund is just getting. Is branching out. We're buying zeros. How much money did you make the last week? 20 million. Let's go. I'll make it come back.

[Bradley Wiggins]

20 million a rider. I mean, but you'd have like, Pagacha or Vindigo all at the Giro.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know if you would.

[George Hincapie]

We need some. Some big, big power, big horsepower to come in for something like that.

[Spencer Martin]

But that's a shame for the sport then, isn't it? And the traditions of the sport.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, that's what happened with live and pga, right?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

And it's. It's, you know, potentially happened in cycling or at least trying to happen from. From the rumors we are hearing.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's. It's vulnerable. It's like a sick body. Like someone could come in and really make some trouble and ruin the tradition, I guess.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, it's happened in boxing. Dana White has done it and gone off with Turkey. Al Shake in. In Saudi, and they've created a new belt for boxing and took it away from Eddie Hernan Matchroom in the uk. Um, and it's.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, that's quite the character, that guy.

[Spencer Martin]

Nobody, you know, it's.

[George Hincapie]

I mean, like you said, if they show up with the money, writers I think would be. Will go that route.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know. I. I think we can sit here and talk about. Yeah, the Tour. Look, the Tour has a lock. It has a lock on the writers. It has a lock on our imaginations. And that's real. It just is. And we can. I don't think that. I mean, it's easy to sit here and say, well, all these. The greats, we're going to run an event at the same time, and you're going to get these people because the money is there. And the only thing the Tour de France is going to get is a bunch of French teams and a bunch of sort of B and C teams. I think you'd be surprised. I think Tadi Poguchar says, no, this is the. I know what I would have done. Right. You said you're in a position like, well, I don't need. I mean, I'm making plenty of money. And this is. This is the only bike race I knew Growing up, I'm not gonna go. I think you'd be surprised.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But you only have to make ASO bleed, basically. So even if they get. If they have to pay a bunch of money to get the secondary riders, then they're on profit.

[Lance Armstrong]

I think the most. I think the most important and significant thing you could do is just somehow, which has proved to be virtually impossible to do, is to bring them to the table, say, okay. And I don't know that it has to come through threats. I don't know that it has to come through PIF or whoever else throwing money at the issue. At some point, it needs to be an adult conversation. It just says, listen, all right, here we are. And the numbers don't lie. Like this sport. I actually disagree with George that the sport is growing leaps and bounds. I actually don't think it is. And I think that it's setting itself up for a future of smaller and smaller viewership numbers. I don't think a younger audience 20 years from now is going to consume sports content like this. I think it. That adult conversation in an adult room needs to happen sooner than later. And say, listen, we could put ourselves out of business, all of us. That. That's my view, man.

[George Hincapie]

You're just like Debbie Downer today. Power grid.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm Debbie.

[George Hincapie]

We're all gonna be like, I mean, should we stop stocking up on food?

[Bradley Wiggins]

And it's funny.

[Lance Armstrong]

I did. Anna got up this morning. She's like, oh, that was weird with the power. I thought, I'm gonna go back to this. I said, honey, this is how they get us. I'm just telling you, that is true. But they're going to cut off power, and they're going to cut off communication, and we're going to freak the F out. Yeah. And she's like, oh, my God, what do we do? I was like, well, we get a generator. We get Starlink. You know, Like, I don't know. But I digress. Today's show also brought to you by Ketone iq and as I said a second ago, really cool to have Michael Brandt here. Boy. They came on with a product that has changed the sports world and changed. Certainly changed this peloton. We see and hear about the prevalence of ketones very, very often in the sport. They've continued up their game, changed the formulations a little bit, added caffeine, lots of new flavors. I had the new apple flavor this morning. It was rock and roll. Absolutely love it. There's not a day that goes by that I don't consume at least one shot of Ketone iq. And what I want to talk to Michael about is some of these studies. You've heard me talk about it every day. Where the numbers, you know, like Jay Z said, the numbers don't lie. And obviously the partnership with team Visma. Lisa bike. Take your shot. Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second [e-mail] themove ketone.com themove Last one of the day it is. And you saw the boys today. Even Vanderpool boy caked in sweat. Merlier in his post race interview talking about the heat. The heat is coming on. This first nine days have been filthy. Filthy, right? And the race kind of starts tomorrow. But the boys are getting hot. The boys are sweating. We're out here every day outside working out. Sweating element is our go to hydration source. Thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium, no sugar, no gluten, no artificial ingredients, no bs. Hey, and best of all, if you don't like it, give it to a friend and element will refund you. Get a free 8 count sample pack of elements most popular drink. Mix flavors with any [e-mail] themove that's drinklmnt.com themove and be sure to try the element sparkling. Sitting here, right here in front of us. Stay salty, my friends.

[George Hincapie]

Quick note. My buddy Alan Gibson and Felix Stella Mezek. I always mess up his last name. They're doing the Tour a day before.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's crazy.

[George Hincapie]

And they rode. Sorry. They rode tomorrow stage today. And they said it is absolutely disgusting for anybody who's done my fun though you've done it. They said it's twice as many vertical feet than my grand fondo. And they obviously they're just doing it for recreation. Having fun with Ace. That is horrible.

[Lance Armstrong]

I didn't know how Felix sent me a note before that he was doing it and. And somebody else came up to me recently and said they have a friend doing it. And I said that's. That's harder than riding the Tour de France because most of the time and the Tour a lot you're with 200 guys. Oh, it's way plenty of kilometers and miles where you're. You're getting sucked along.

[Spencer Martin]

Jeff is out doing it again. Jeff Thomas.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're out there alone.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, he is. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Jeff is out doing it.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I feel like we didn't. Maybe we brushed over this. Do you know what the. So today was 174 kilometers. Three and a half hours. Under three and a half hours. Do you know what that average speed is?

[Spencer Martin]

Tell us Spencer.

[Bradley Wiggins]

It's 31 miles an hour.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's insane.

[George Hincapie]

Spencer's been getting a lot and Spencer now has heydarati also because of his.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Criteria into the studio.

[George Hincapie]

So like he's got the hateroto. He's joining our hater club.

[Lance Armstrong]

You can sue those people.

[George Hincapie]

So Spencer, and you said it again today. You said it again because my, my, my criterion friends are listening that the first hour of these races are faster than most criteriums. And maybe the average speed of today is just as fast or faster than an hour long criteria.

[Lance Armstrong]

What are you gonna say that Spencer?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Okay, for my personal experience I went back to files yesterday of crit of high level crits that I've done and yeah, my average speed and this was a long time ago. Maybe they're going 37 miles an hour now. But today's average speed was higher than a lot of crits and it's a full race. But think about that. Like Vanderpool's out there by himself or with one teammate doing that. Not on a time trial bike. Do you know how heavy Jonas Rickard is his teammate?

[Spencer Martin]

80 kilos.

[Bradley Wiggins]

88 kilos.

[Spencer Martin]

88.

[Bradley Wiggins]

How do you think he's going to feel tomorrow?

[Spencer Martin]

Tomorrow, baby.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, he's going to be. He's going to be out of the race tomorrow.

[Bradley Wiggins]

He could be outside of the tower.

[Lance Armstrong]

He's going to be out of the race. Yeah. So.

[Bradley Wiggins]

But that brings me back. I still can't fully understand this decision.

[George Hincapie]

The race is so hard tomorrow that a group pedal is going to form pretty early on and they're going to stick together like a band of brothers. They better get to the finish line.

[Lance Armstrong]

They better ride really hard. This is. This is. But I want to go back. I can't believe. Wait, the professor has haters. I mean this is.

[George Hincapie]

The professor's got haters.

[Lance Armstrong]

Hold on a second. Whether you're a lover or a hater, I don't really care. I don't. But Spencer is one of the nicest guys in the world. This, this is. This is. That's the worst thing I've heard. That's worse than my power going.

[George Hincapie]

So am I. I got haters.

[Lance Armstrong]

He's a lot nicer than you. Do it.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

But anyways team, I think the team.

[George Hincapie]

Would say I am just as nice as Spencer. They would certainly say that you're not as nice as anybody on this show.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Trivia. Who's nicer George or Spencer.

[Lance Armstrong]

See you in the courtroom. You know what? Yeah. You guys keep this shit up, okay? I played yesterday with a really prominent trial lawyer out of Houston. Let me tell you something. This boy is not afraid of anything. So any more mean tweets? I'm queuing up daily this lawyer, and we're coming with the heat of a thousand suns. I promise you. I mean, the damages. I mean, you guys are losing sleep.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

So that's money, right? All right. Just big. Just ask Kofities. You get to do this. All right. Steal all our bikes. We don't care. Yeah, a couple of mean tweets. Nuh. Johnny Cochran's coming back. Yeah. I'm going to go find Johnny Cochran.

[Spencer Martin]

Bigger than OJ.

[Lance Armstrong]

Shall we? Before we get to the Ventum Daily trivia, let's just because we talked about a second, let's look at tomorrow's stage. And it's hard. I can't even hardly look at it. Oh, no. Oh, no. All right. And what strikes me here, and just follow me here on this for a second, guy. Obviously, you see what, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 categorized climbs. Most of those category two, which we all know, category two climbs.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. But they're all 7%.

[Lance Armstrong]

They're all there. And it never ends. This stage, as you see at the top, 4450 meters, that is, if you think in feet, that's well over 15,000 vertical feet of climbing. Now, to take it a step further, it's in 165 kilometers. Yeah. Now, if, if, if the World Championships was 15, 000ft of climbing, you would say, oh, my Lord, that's impossible. And it's. But that would be in 265km. So you have all of that climbing in a truly and relatively short stage.

[George Hincapie]

I think we should go back to it because I kind of want to break down in percentages. What the peloton, how they see in this stage, 50% of the peloton are going, oh, my God, I don't know if I can. And I'm just gonna pray and try to hang on. 25% of going, this is an ideal day for me to make a breakaway. I'm gonna, you know, go from that. You gotta go from the first climb these days, you gotta go from kilometer zero, essentially. And then the rest, 25% are just holding on to their top 15, top 20 GC spot of the Tour de France. So it's just gonna make for wildly aggressive racing and just. I think it's gonna be the most interesting Day of the Tour of France thus far.

[Lance Armstrong]

I. I will be up early for this one. I have a question for you.

[George Hincapie]

Will you respond to my text messages then or not?

[Lance Armstrong]

I have a question for you and this just goes to your point. A few days ago, Bradley, of the weighting of weight like the weight. The points of the green jersey competition. Go back to that for a sec, will you?

[George Hincapie]

Gabriel?

[Lance Armstrong]

Does. Does Girmay and we've also talked about how Milan is decent over the climbs. But does Girmay make a play here to try to shed Milan just to get. Because if you get him drop it's.

[Spencer Martin]

Going to be a different ball game tomorrow. I don't think those guys are going to be in with a shout in that first sprint. I think it's going to be really.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, it's going to be on and is not. He doesn't seem as good as he was a couple years ago. I. I think he's in survival mode. Milan's in survival mode.

[Lance Armstrong]

Who's a better climber? Guermayar Milan.

[George Hincapie]

I mean Milan's made it over the freaking suppressor in. In the Milan San Remo, the Poggio. The guy can climb.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

I mean he's got mad, mad power. But this is going to be a whole different story here.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I don't know if we have the final final. I mean this is the up. This is the final climb to the finish. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean this is after 15000ft of climbing.

[Spencer Martin]

Got Tade written all over again.

[Lance Armstrong]

It has Taddy written all over it by. By, by a mile.

[Spencer Martin]

But it's fair to say Visma are now in a stronger position as a team.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So it's going to be interesting particularly with Almeida gone now.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I have a bad prediction is from someone who watches a lot of cycling, gets very excited for stages like this. I kind of worried it's gonna be boring like breakaway. We wake up, breakaway's gone. They're noodle. They're. They're just hard pacing in the peloton.

[George Hincapie]

Wait, but who's gonna be hard facing.

[Bradley Wiggins]

UAE to make Because Visma thinks that they can. If they hard pace Tade will get worse. Whether that's true or not, I guess is up for debate. But that's what they think, clearly.

[George Hincapie]

I mean, in my opinion, if they hard pace, they're pacing for Tati.

[Bradley Wiggins]

That's what I think.

[George Hincapie]

So I don't think they should do that. I think they gotta.

[Lance Armstrong]

You call me Debbie Downer. I mean that was. That was.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I'VE gotten burned by so many stages.

[Lance Armstrong]

That was dark.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Sorry, sorry.

[George Hincapie]

We were all, it's gonna be exciting.

[Lance Armstrong]

We were talking about how excited we are for the stage tomorrow. On that, Visma need to be in.

[Spencer Martin]

A position where Taday is on his own, you know, and then they could start using Matteo Jorgensen.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, but I was thinking about this.

[George Hincapie]

On the way in this or hopefully we see Step come out, come tomorrow and be like, yo, Seb's back, baby.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, you're gonna get your answer tomorrow.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep, you will.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're gonna. On that question, you will get your answer tomorrow.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Do we have time for one quick.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, sure. Let me rock the Ventum Daily trivia yesterday. Which rider holds the record for the most green jersey competitions in the history of the Tour de France? The answer to that is. Peter Sagan. What a beast.

[George Hincapie]

We all knew that.

[Lance Armstrong]

What a beast. Stage nine question again, this is the Ventum Daily Trivia question. Sir Mark Cavendish became the winningest writer in the history of the Tour last year with 35 wins. Why has stage nine's finishing. We've talked about this. Stage nine's finishing town, Chateau Rue, been dubbed Cavendish Town. Why? I mean, if you listen to the show, you know the answer to that. I'm gonna have to nudge dia over at Ventum, we got these. We got to get harder questions. I think they're just wanting to give stuff away, which I love, but even I know the answer to that.

[George Hincapie]

We had a great dinner with town. Right now, he's actually riding all three passes.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

Indy, Maroon Bells and Castle Creek this morning.

[Lance Armstrong]

By the way, you guys were gonna get Sir Mark Cavendish on the show today. I see that didn't.

[George Hincapie]

Didn't happen. We apologize. We'll keep working on it.

[Lance Armstrong]

Working on losing some. Working on the whole.

[Spencer Martin]

Working on that as we speak.

[Lance Armstrong]

Working on it. All right. One question before we go.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Oh, yeah. In lieu of Mark Cavendish, we have a question from Joe. Why is it so important for Tada and Jonas to have teammates in the mountains? If one of them is outnumbered, why can't they just surfer tag on the back of the other team?

[Lance Armstrong]

Bradley George.

[George Hincapie]

It's simple. The whole goal of that would be to. If they don't have a teammate and they have the other team has three, four guys, then they can start sending guys up the road, you know, trying to get their. Their gc. Like for instance, if Visma had Jurgensen in there and Simon Yates and Sepkos and Pogies by himself. They're going to try to get Jurgens to get up the road or one of those guys. The other two guys are not significant in the gc, but they're just going to be attacking the hell out of poker, making them try to chase them down and try to just weaken them the only way they can.

[Bradley Wiggins]

I mean, and Tade has to close them down because presumably they're not going to close their teammates.

[Lance Armstrong]

This is all fine and good on paper.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

But you're dealing with Tadde Poker. I mean, he's a proud guy. He's super tough. He. He's going to read all the articles and hear all the comments about losing Almeida and how that's. We're talking about it. He's going to hear things like that. He's going to say, okay, and we watch it. Why don't you watch this?

[George Hincapie]

Exactly. Well, we got one of the most exciting stages of the Tour de France a couple years ago on the Olivier, when you got Primo's roglage, you got Jonas attacking full gas, and then they finally cracked poker jar. Yeah, I think I remember that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Want an answer to that question? You should go watch that stage.

[George Hincapie]

Yes. Because watch that stage.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Perfect example.

[George Hincapie]

And there, you know, Visma remembers that. And their goal is probably to do. Try to do something similar.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, well, get up early tomorrow. It's gonna start. I guess it's a longer stage. I mean. Yeah. It's also Bastille day, so I, I don't. I'm a special day for the French riders. You know, Bacalon maybe somewhere around there, but other than that. Nope. But it's going to be exciting. Gonna be fireworks.

[Bradley Wiggins]

Last French rider, which it should be.

[Lance Armstrong]

Think about that. Fireworks.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know what they do in France. I should know and it will.

[George Hincapie]

Who are the French favorites for tomorrow? Spencer?

[Bradley Wiggins]

Well, the problem is the French have gotten too good. He won't go.

[Lance Armstrong]

He's gc. No, but he's. He. He's going to be. He's going to be milling around.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah. And for him, the race is so hard that even if he's my. Doesn't care about a breakaway or ua doesn't care about a breakaway, they're going to have to ride hard because it's up and down all day. You know, you got to stay in the front. So the teams are just going to be riding hard out of safety, which is going to keep the breakaway closer, which is going to have the peloton be able to smell blood near the end and, you know, could arguably be a sprint. A sprint amongst the GC riders tomorrow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay. All right. Special treat for us. We're joined by Michael Brandt, CEO of Ketone iq, as we talk about every day, our presenting sponsor each and every day here at the Move. Michael, seems like you got the tiger by the tail, right? This is. We're seeing the brand everywhere. Obviously, it is very pervasive in cycling, which we love, but you're seeing it in other sports. I've been seeing a lot of content in and around Jon Jones, and people are catching on. Right. I mean, look, and people ask me a lot too, like, does that really work? And I'm telling them, listen, this works. Right? And I wouldn't put something in my mouth each and every day if I didn't think it worked.

[Spencer Martin]

Fact.

[E]

We've been cooking. Yeah, I think about it a lot in the same way that Gatorade brought electrolytes into the world, originally in the 1960s with the Florida Gators. And as an entrepreneur, as a founder is really important to me to find an idea whose time has come. I'm not here to put some magic molecule into the universe that I invented. Ketones are part of human physiology. Our bodies have made ketones for 300,000 years. What my company figured out how to do is how to ferment it, make it into a shot, make it cost effective, formulate it, and then you're able to drink it. So it's simultaneously this ageless, timeless part of human physiology. It's a really efficient molecule that you make a lot of already. Well, we figured out a way was to make it as a shot, and you can go to a local store and buy it. And so it's exciting. We found an idea whose time has come, and it's our. Our job to lead the way.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[George Hincapie]

And it's awesome to watch the evolution of the product. I mean, because first, the first couple of iterations of it were not the best tasting products. Now they actually taste great. Like, talk about, you know, that was.

[Lance Armstrong]

People'S first bit of feedback. Early days, they were like, whoa, that tastes interesting. And to George's point. Yeah, he really worked on the taste.

[E]

It was harsh in the early days. Tastes like battery acid.

[Lance Armstrong]

I know.

[E]

Brad, you were one of the very first.

[Lance Armstrong]

You said it, not us.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, but it came out of Oxford University.

[E]

Yeah. Very early on. Came out of Oxford University trying the.

[Spencer Martin]

First sort of batches of it, you know.

[E]

Right, right. And we've come a long way. It's always exciting. You make your first million dollars, and it can. If it works, you can sell something that tastes like battery acid. You can sell it to Navy seals and pro tour riders and if it really works, people will be all right with it. Now we're broad, we're in sprouts, we're in equinox gins, we're broad. And so we've developed the product to make it a much more mainstream.

[Lance Armstrong]

Making a move in convenience. Yeah, that's the holy grail in this business. Yeah.

[E]

What if energy shots could actually be good for you? I think a lot of the perception on the standard energy shot you grab at a convenience store is it's, it works, but it's kind toxic sludge. Whereas, and this is a lot of the research we've done with Vis Melissa Bike is ketones are actually good for you. It's not just this trade off of you're getting energy, but it's bad. It's like it's compounding daily performance benefit as well.

[Lance Armstrong]

And those numbers, and this is, tell us about these studies because we, we talk about it every day on the show and I think sometimes it might get lost on folks when you know, you hear things like placebo controlled study, trained athletes. Of course we're using trained athletes. But these numbers are real, right? Average sprint power boosted by 19%, peak power, 13%. Fatigue being cut by 10%. I mean we know, I mean if Those numbers said 1, 2 and 1 athletes would be interested. Right? But those numbers are 19, 13 and 10. Those are real numbers.

[E]

Those are big numbers, double digit numbers. When we first kicked off the partnership with Visa, Lisa Bike, it was really important to them that this was not going to be a partnership where we just pay the money and they slap a logo on the jersey. They wanted to do research and it was important that we do it with a third party arm's length institution. So we work with KU Leuven Independent Research University, best sports nutrition researchers in all of Europe. Visa Melissa Bike chose to work with them. We sponsored the study and then walked away and let them do their thing and they cooked. And they showed a lot of what we'd already seen in smaller scales and previous trial studies that ketones are extremely effective not only in same day performance, but they have this compounding ongoing performance benefit when you take them habitually. And the one liner that I use to describe it is it's very similar to the adaptation you get from altitude training. We all know altitude training. Really good for you. Right. Like every team is going to Tener reef whatnot. Like training at camp. We're out here at Aspen. That same set of benefits you also get from Ketones. So if you're doing both of your altitude training and taking ketones, you get this whole host of metabolic benefits.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, we'll be ready. Pretty soon, we'll be ready to go, come back. I mean, well, two of us will, one of us not, but for other reasons.

[George Hincapie]

Hey, I got a question.

[Lance Armstrong]

Shit happens. What?

[George Hincapie]

So how has the protocols changed? I mean, maybe we can't really discuss exactly how Visma is using them, but I feel like back in the day, you do it before, during, after. Is it the same or is it like, what's. What's the. The. The most effective.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's the most common question people get.

[George Hincapie]

Okay, Most effective protocol for using ketones as an athlete.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, let's. Can I just add to that just a bit? If you're just a. I don't want to say recreational athlete, but if you're somebody who trains, let's call it five days a week, you know, they're an hour to 75 minutes. Right. So for that, what would be an ideal protocol for them? And then if it's somebody that trains more. Right, whatever. Two to four hours a day. A cyclist. Like, what would be their protocol?

[E]

Yeah, the way that we recommend taking it is take it before you start your ride or run, and then take it every hour, ongoing.

[George Hincapie]

Okay.

[E]

What the pros will do is they'll get really intricate on the ratio of having three to one of carbohydrate, grams of carbohydrate to ketones. And then they'll also have it afterwards that when you're doing recovery, your body's also still consuming energy. Right. You're rebuilding your muscles, you're repleting your glycogen. All that stuff takes energy. And ketones are really effective in that recovery phase. So for amateur rider, they're just gonna have, you know, every third carb gel slam, a ketone IQ as well, or to have it every hour for the more advanced riders, they start getting more intricate on their ratios and measuring out for body weight.

[Lance Armstrong]

Any. I'm sure you have, but any progress or any interest from sort of the big five in the United States? Right. So football, baseball, basketball, hockey. You would think tennis.

[George Hincapie]

Are the tennis guys.

[Lance Armstrong]

Let me. Let me say. Let me say one more time. The big five. Football, baseball, now messing up basketball, hockey, you would think, for those, you know, explosive sports, by the way, too. I mean, these guys are standing on the sideline oftentimes, three, four hours. I would think there'd be a lot of interest from these big teams, big leagues.

[E]

Yeah, Joe Montana is an investor in our business. Actually Jake Paul as well now. Professional boxer, actually rated top 15 in the, in the world right now. We're branching out for sure. What's cool about cycling is, you know, is cycling is really an index of how good is your stamina. The, you know, best person from going from A to B in terms of stamina, it's going to in general win the race. When you look at something like tennis, the person with the best stamina doesn't necessarily win.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right.

[E]

There's other factors.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know. French Open, French Open final, five hour matches. Okay.

[George Hincapie]

We're talking the same as a Tour de France days and more, much more muscle damage. Yeah, that's, that's even more effective. And talk about like how it keeps you on top of your mental game as well, which in tennis or in cycling, it's all about not crashing and always being aware of where you're at. This has got to play a huge.

[E]

Factor in that you're pushing exactly the right button. Cycling was a perfect sport to get started because you're measuring your watts. You can see if something has a double digit percentage lift, a soccer player, tennis player, they're not measuring their watts, but exactly to your point. Wimbledon final, it's an endurance event. It's like a stage of the tour. And so we are pushing out as an entrepreneur, it's about thinking, okay, how do you make your first million? How do you make your first 10 million? How do you make your first 100 million? So you got to start somewhere. I'm a marathon runner. Cyclists were the first ones to pick up ketones. Like starting with these endurance sports and now branching out. And I can say we have athletes in all of the big five major leagues using the product, buying it regularly, shipping cases out, crates out and yeah, more to come as we launch into more mainstream retail sign more big athletes. As you mentioned, we just signed Jon Jones, the heavyweight goat of the ufc. So making moves for sure.

[Lance Armstrong]

So Bradley has a question about him.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I was actually going to say where's the ceiling with ketones? I mean 10 years from now, how we will consume ketones in a, in a, in a life expectancy way and well being.

[E]

Great question constantly. I think it will be 10 of global calorie consumption. I think that we will. Ketones will be everywhere. It'll be globally distributed and people will be taking them. Not just elite athletes, but broadly, you can think about how protein, for instance, when protein powder was first invented, it was the bodybuilders. But now it's, you know, if your dad, grandparents or whatever are 80 years old, they should be having protein to prevent age related muscle loss. That elite athletes are a great test bed for when things really work because they're really pushing the edge of the sport, edge of physiology. But in general, we have a big study going on ketones for Alzheimer's. Ketones, the way that they interact with your brain, the way they deliver energy to your brain, the same way that keeps you dialed in, in the peloton. It also can help an aging brain to have better metabolism. And so we very much don't see this as just a sports nutrition supplement. It's, it's a, it's fun to get started in sports, but it's this broader, like everyone should be having ketones to help their mental and physical health.

[George Hincapie]

Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting.

[Spencer Martin]

It's fascinating.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, before we let you go, I just have to say one more thing. And it did. You mentioned Jake Paul. Yeah. This little punk, all right. He makes a run of me on Instagram. I get it. He's out for a Snoopy bike ride. This beautiful whatever, girlfriend, fiance, wife, She's a speed skater. She's probably a good rider.

[E]

She skates for team visa. Lisa bike on her skating.

[Lance Armstrong]

She's legit. All right. And she, I'll say it again, the good looking. But you just. All right, he wants to run at me, he better. You better fill the swimming pool of ketones and just put him in there for an hour or two and let him drink all day.

[George Hincapie]

You talking about a bike bike?

[Lance Armstrong]

You seen the run he made at me?

[George Hincapie]

I did see that. Yeah. And you know, I need the man to have some motivation to get back.

[Lance Armstrong]

Listen, you might get me back on a bike. Have that little YouTuber turned boxer popping off on the old man again. In fact, that's why I think he said that. He said, sit down, old man.

[E]

Let's go. I don't know, does he know what a, what a watt is on the bike? Let's see, let's see what he doesn't.

[Lance Armstrong]

Know, but he doesn't care. Yeah, right. But full transparency and being completely honest, I have a hell of a lot of respect for that guy. I mean, think about it, right?

[E]

This kid from Ohio, this is a.

[Lance Armstrong]

Youtuber and he is what I called him. But him and his brother, hey, man, hats off. And in this new. Back to what we said earlier, in this new way that we consume content, that they have changed the game and nonetheless, I still want to roll up on there and kick his ass. That's all I got to say about that.

[E]

Appreciate it. Hey, congrats, guys, on number one Spot Sports podcast. Got a lot going on with Wimbledon and everything else, and the race spot's not easy. Hey, race starts tomorrow.

[Lance Armstrong]

I heard we're getting into the good days for the move. So, Michael, thanks for your partnership. This is fascinating. And I loved. You know where this is, where this is going, that 10 year question. That's. That's, like I said, 10 year question. Tiger by the tail. You're in charge. Let's go. Or as George says, lamos.

[George Hincapie]

Lamos.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, thanks for tuning in, everybody.