Session 122: Marisa Abela

Summary

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 122: Marisa Abela
Date: May 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and introspective episode, Jake Shane sits down with actress Marisa Abela, best known for her role as Yasmin ("Yaz") on HBO’s Industry. The conversation explores the evolution of Yasmin’s character, the darkness of recent plot lines, and the realities of fame, fandom, and creative risk. Marisa opens up about her acting journey, mental health, public criticism, and personal life, sharing candid insights and engaging anecdotes. The episode is packed with humor, relatability, and thoughtful commentary, making it a must-listen for fans of Industry, aspiring actors, and anyone struggling with vulnerability or criticism in the public eye.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Yasmin’s Journey in Industry: Character Evolution & Morality

• Major Turning Points:

  • Season 1: Yasmin starts vulnerable, bullied, and unsure of herself.
  • Season 2: Her father cuts her off—she’s destitute, locked out, and pushed to survive.
  • Season 3: Living with Harper and Rob, faces moral dilemmas and makes life-defining choices.

    “At the end of season three. That choice that she makes, that defines the rest of her…” – Marisa (02:54)

  • Season 4: Yasmin crosses into murky, even criminal, territory (sex trafficking), losing fan empathy.

    “It's human trafficking. But…no one's got a gun to her head...it's a way of...having control.” – Marisa (06:03)

• Audience Reactions:

  • Some still root for Yasmin, others are “horrified.”

    “For the people who loved Yasmin and were like, she's an icon. Those people I feel sorry for, because…how do you back that?” – Marisa (05:51)

• Moral Complexity:

  • Writers intentionally push the boundaries of character likability, especially for women.

    “So often I think the notes people get…with female characters, it's like, it's too unlikable… The writers are just like, yeah, whatever.” – Marisa (09:24)

2. Behind the Scenes of Industry

• Writing & Creative Process:

  • Scenes often pitched with dark twists (“hear me out, sex trafficking”), challenging Marisa to motivate “unmotivateable” choices (07:34–08:21).
  • On performances: One-take scenes can be intense.

    “That whole argument is just one take, which is overwhelming…it's like a six minute scene or something.” – Marisa (08:33)

• Cast Chemistry:

  • Marisa and co-stars, especially those playing Harper and Robert, developed close bonds on set.

    “We have the best chemistry ever… It became the love story of the show…” – Marisa (21:24)

• Yasmin & Harper:

  • Their relationship is now the “only love they know”—complex and laced with betrayal.

    “It's the only love I feel like they know is with each other.” – Jake (21:45)

3. Show’s Cultural Footprint & Personal Impact

• Popularity & Recognition:

  • The show’s audience expanded massively after Kit Harington joined—Marisa noticed increased recognition and even won a BAFTA (16:40–17:07).

    “When HBO decided to cast Kit Harrington, I was like, oh, they back here…you could just feel it—more people on the street are like, I'm obsessed with Industry.” – Marisa (15:56)

• Type of Fan Encounters:

  • In London, recognized by bankers; in LA/NY, by creatives (33:52–34:13).

4. The Experience of Fame, Criticism, & Resilience

• Handling Public & Critical Scrutiny:

  • Marisa discusses playing Amy Winehouse in Back to Black and the vitriol directed at female actors in biopics.

    “It's hard to take it, to step into it. What you're saying is you are willing to at least try and fill this space of something that is massive and amazing, and people are like, 'not you’...” – Marisa (45:16)

• Mental Health & Social Media:

  • Candid about deleting Instagram to avoid negativity, and needing strong support systems.

    “I deleted Instagram. I didn't have Instagram for, like, nine months...it was so jarring.” – Marisa (52:28)

• Friends & Groundedness:

  • Both Jake and Marisa highlight the importance of friends outside the industry to keep them grounded, especially amid backlash (59:45–60:33).

5. Mental Health: OCD & Magical Thinking

• OCD Experiences:
  • Both share openly about their OCD, misperceptions, and the difficulty of untangling thoughts from reality.

    “It's such a tough industry to have OCD…It's like magical thinking OCD.” – Jake (67:04) “It's like having a big red button, and someone's like, don't press it...and your brain is like, press it, press it, press it.” – Marisa (65:27)

  • Discuss how intrusive thoughts and the compulsion to control impact their work and emotions.

6. Personal Life & Relationships

• Marisa’s Background & Acting Beginnings:

  • Grew up with her mother in theatre, resisted acting fearing career instability, eventually attended RADA. Booked Industry while still a student (36:31–39:29).

• Romance & Marriage:

  • Met her husband at drama school; describes wedding as “the best day” and party planning as a highlight (80:19–84:43).

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “That moment, that was my favorite moment too. That was...felt real.” – Jake (08:28), referring to a dramatic argument scene in Industry.
• “I want to do all the things that Lorde sings about…” – Yasmin quote discussed by Marisa (10:38)
• “Do you ever have to do a chemistry read with Mahala? ...We have the best chemistry ever. Thank God, because...Yasmin wouldn’t even be a character anymore.” – Marisa (21:24)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• 02:54 – Yasmin’s defining choice at end of Season 3
• 07:34 – How Marisa found out about the Season 4 plot twist
• 13:31 – The shocking twist of Henry’s character in Season 4
• 17:01 – Winning a BAFTA for Season 3
• 24:43 – On approaching Season 5 scripts and not reading ahead
• 28:45 – The last sex scene; reflection on show’s lack of sentimentality
• 34:48 – Fear and responsibility in portraying dark subject matter
• 36:31–39:29 – Marisa’s acting origins and Industry casting process
• 52:28 – Dealing with criticism by deleting social media
• 65:27 – Obsessive thoughts and magical thinking
• 79:22 – Wild “I wrote that book” dating story
• 80:19 – Meeting her husband and wedding memories
• 85:10–86:41 – Advice to listeners about Instagram doomscrolling and drifting from family

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"Tell Me What’s Wrong" Advice (Q&A with Listener Submissions)

• Dating Anxiety: Both recommend lower-pressure situations (go out with single friends, try phone calls before dates), accept awkwardness, and acknowledge that dating is naturally difficult (77:25–79:05).
• Social Media Obsession: Solution is to step back from Instagram, invest energy in following TV characters instead of real people (85:10–85:55).
• Family Distance: Acknowledge emotional distance, suggest accepting “awkward” catch-ups and giving each other grace (86:41–88:02).

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Closing Thoughts

• Gratitude for the show’s growth:

  “At the end of the day, it's, like, objectively good...It's a fine wine. As are we on the show.” – Marisa (88:43–89:01)

• On mutual understanding:

  “I learned that I feel like we are super similar. And that we need a night out. Asap.” – Marisa & Jake (88:27–88:37)

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Overall Tone:
Conversational, honest, humorous, deeply introspective—balancing pop culture, emotional depth, and hard-earned wisdom. Fans and newcomers alike will find insight, comfort, and entertainment.

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Listen if you want:

• Deep dives into TV character development
• Honest talk about mental health and creative risk
• Insights into the acting world and handling criticism
• Smart, funny dialogue with industry insiders

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Are you ready?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Marisa Bella is here. I mean, no introduction needed on my end.

[A]

Yeah, well, I think for a lot of people.

[B]

She plays Yaz in the best show on television. I'll die by that industry on hbo. And I have been an industry fan since COVID We've.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Yeah, we've talked about this and it took people a minute to catch on, like, yesterday. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, this episode is going to contain spoilers because I do need to talk about it all.

[A]

I think so. Also, I think, like, by. By this point, it's too much to be like, no, spoil it. Like, get. You've got to get.

[B]

Watching it now, the character development of Yaz.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Reminds me of Daenerys in Game of Thrones.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, Kind of.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

You want her to win so bad. What the fuck is going on?

[A]

I know. I mean, also, especially if you. If we rewind to the beginning of season one, like, this is a girl walking in, carrying salads, super vulnerable, super scared, getting bullied at work, not sure if she's, like, ever going to be able to say anything like, boo to a goose. And suddenly, like, we're here.

[B]

I just feel like she gets screwed over. What was at the end of season one? Was Harper screwing her over with the HR complaint?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Season two. How did season. Season two.

[A]

Season two, her father cut her off, right? Yeah. She's left with. She has no money.

[B]

Right.

[A]

At the end of season two, and she's locked out of her apartment. She's, like, fiddling with her keys and she's locked out of her apartment. Her father's cut her off. So then season three, she's living with Harper and Rob.

[B]

Oh, I miss Rob.

[A]

I know, I know. Me too.

[B]

I miss him.

[A]

Such a soft, gooey, gushy part of the show that now doesn't exist.

[B]

I mean, that season three finale, I honestly might re. Watch it tonight just to feel something.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, because I think. I mean, there are so many turning points for Yasmin, like, so many turning points for who she, like, for the evolution of, like, the woman that we see now in front of us at the end of season four that. That's A big one. At the end of season three. That choice that. That choice that she makes, that defines

[B]

the rest of her.

[A]

It totally does.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She makes a choice and she's like, I want that. And then obviously, what if season four happens? But I was saying as well, I think the biggest turning point for Yasmin as a character actually is there's a moment in season two with. There's a character, Kenny, the Northern Irish.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Who. Conor McNeil is like one of my favorite people on the planet. He's so good. Comes up and she's in a meeting and he. He says something to her about the fact that I can't believe you would let this happen to Venetia. And he bullied her for the whole of season one. And Yasmin goes in and for the first time we see, like, the gun finger come out and her being like, who the.

[B]

Oh, I remember. On the trading floor. Right? Yeah.

[A]

And like, she. I think that's. That was a moment that I think Mickey and Koi, the writers, were like, oh, Marisa could be like a gangster. I don't know about where she's going, but 100. I think what Mickey and Cora were like, we're thinking was where. How far can we push the audience's allegiances? You know, like, this is a woman who has also. The amazing thing about television as like a long form, art form, I guess, is you have years to live with a character. So we're not asking people to jump in after like 20 minutes of exposition and being like. And this is how, like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Someone comes to these decisions. We're. We're saying, you've seen everything that happened to her for her, about her for like the last five years. This is the culmination of all of those things. How do you feel now? And it's like,

[B]

okay, so the thing about me is I'm a little stupid in the head. So I actually didn't understand what was going on in season four. Like, I understood that Harper and Eric, we're short. We're betting on the loss of tender. Of tender.

[A]

Betting on tender. Losing. That's like. That's all you need to know.

[B]

Right? Okay, great. That's what I.

[A]

You got it. 100%.

[B]

Cuz I was like, wait, I feel like I'm. But then how. And you. That moment. There's this like, moment in season four where Yaz realizes what Harper's doing and she just has this moment of like, she's so not surprised.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. She's wearing that, like, Insane 80s orange shirt. She's like, why are you hell bent on blowing up, like, my life? Why can't you be happy for me? And I think it's so interesting. I either meet people who are like, Yasmin, I would walk through fire for her, or I meet people who are like, can't stand her. Like, she's so entitled. She's so whatever. And I don't necessarily mean now. I think this season is, like, throwing a spot out of the works for everyone. But from season one, they're like, oh, shut up. Like, you know, and for me, for. I mean, either way, I'm like, people feel something, so I'm happy. But for the people who loved Yasmin and were like, she's an icon. Those people I feel sorry for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm like, how do you back that?

[B]

You can't. It's unbackable.

[A]

It's unbackable. It's actually kind of savage. Like, even if you still back her, you kind of can't say that out loud. You can't, because it's like. It's like. Well, she's like, it's human trafficking. Yeah, it's human trafficking.

[B]

But how. Like, where. Where is the money coming from at this point? Because you see her walk in with these bags with Kieran and Shipka and, like, all these bags, and you're like, but where is she now making this money?

[A]

Well, someone like Stefanovic, who is the, like, the guy that she's hosting the dinner for, will be kind of, I guess, backing her. She's not paying for any of it, so she's kind of. She's, like, organizing all of it. But they're. These people are sort of funding her lifestyle now, which means she's kind of at the mercy again. She's put herself in a situation where she's at the mercy of men who don't necessarily have the best intentions. But this thing of what she's decided to do with Haley's character, I mean, there's no two ways about it. It's come out of her own head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No one's got a gun to her head forcing her to do this, so. But it's a way of. Of having control. I mean, like, she's always. Even since season one, like, her body and sex in one way or another, has been a currency for her. And as she gets older, and I think she. She's become more like, numbed her own desires. She's just using that in other people. I mean, it's intense. It's intense.

[B]

It's intense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was there a moment this season, like, do you discover what's happening when you get the sides or when you do like a read through?

[A]

When. When I have a meeting. So we were optioned for three seasons. I had a meeting with Mickey and Komra when they were pitching season four to us. And I was like, what's the vibe? And they were like, hear me out. Sex trafficking. And I was like, like, how do

[B]

we even get there?

[A]

I mean, I couldn't understand. But then again, I was like, when they were like in season three, they were like, hear me out. You kill your dad.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I love a challenge. You know what I mean? So I was just excited to kind of get into it with them, you know? And like, I was excited to motivate something that felt unmotivateable. And I just love doing the show. I love the writing. I love, like, what they allow me to do. That second episode, like, my God. Yeah.

[B]

We. There's a moment with you and Henry and you're fighting and you like almost hit him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And he winces.

[B]

Yeah. Like, that moment, that was my favorite moment too. That was. Felt real.

[A]

It's. It's also so dark. Like that thing. Someone's saying something to you and you going to hit them and. And them like wincing. It's like, it's kind of savage to watch. And also that's that whole scene, that whole argument is just one take, which is like overwhelming because, you know, I this up. You know what I mean? At the other final, like minute of that scene. It's like a six minute scene or something.

[B]

Do you think we've seen the end of Eric?

[A]

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Again, it's kind of that sort of like unforgivable. It's like, it's like, how do you come back from that?

[B]

His performance when he gets that text. He's amazing when he gets that text and he's like looking straight out and there his kid is. Oh, my God. His kid is calling for him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And you're like, oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he finally comes to like the point where he's like, this is it for me.

[A]

But what I love about the show is that so often I think the notes that people get, especially with female characters, it's like, it's too unlikable. I don't like she's unrootable. Like, I don't like the audience are never going to back her. They're never going to watch them again. I'm making. The writers are just like, yeah, whatever. Right. You know what I mean? Like, people are. People exist. We can like push the boundaries of what people are willing to accept. And women especially are like, allowed to be very flawed. And I will trust that people will still watch them and enjoy them. You know, I love doing that, first of all, like, it's an. It's an opportunity for you to just go crazy. It's so fun. Like when there's a scene in. In season three when I'm talking to Ken, Eric Yasmin's on the. Eric's house. She's wearing like a lawyer W. And there's a girl doing like a handstand in the background. And they're like on coke and they're like talking at a million miles an hour. And it's just so fun. Like, I know the audience loves that part of the show too. So whenever there's like a go out scene and like a go crazy scene, I'm happy for them.

[B]

They also set it up so well. They're like, should we go out?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they're like, yeah. And that's when, you know, like the episode flips.

[A]

Yeah. 100. And when she says, I want to do all the things that Lord's do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lord sings about.

[B]

And she's like, I think Lord sings about being 17.

[A]

And I was like, exactly. Yeah, I love being 17. I'm just like, it's so fun. And. And I love that for the audience. Like, I love that. I mean, I think that the audience of the show as well is one of the reasons that the show has done so well, because they are like, they will they back it? You know, they're like, I want to see these people have so much fun. I want to see them like, take drugs and party and like Mickey and Karma, like, yeah, go on then does Mickey and Conrad.

[B]

They're ex bankers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they. This is all like, where did this idea begin for them?

[A]

I think they just thought, you know, I think that there was a kind of. Honestly, I think that was at the time something at HBO where they were like, we really want to do things that are kind of peek behind the curtain of a world that people don't fully understand. And I think they were like, well, we know that. We know industry, we know the finance industry, and we can do that. Well, also I, you know, look at like Wolf of Wall street and what people love.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Sex, drugs and money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and like at the core of it. Well, that's what industry was about in season one? Sex, drugs and money.

[B]

And now.

[A]

And now it's about sex trafficking.

[B]

Literally. I was, like, watching the finale and I was like, holy. I remember at the end of season one when the biggest thing. The biggest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thing with season one was the speech that they had to give. Do you remember at the. What was that speech that they had to, like, prove their worth to the company.

[A]

Ye. And. And Gus's character was like, short. The short. The vix. Buy the dip Bitcoin or something like that. And that was like. Everyone was like, this is so crazy. And it comes out of nowhere, too.

[B]

It out of nowhere. But it's like, where was she left to go? You. I mean, that sounds horrible because it's like, there's, like, other places left to go other than sex trafficking. But, like, really, like, what, she was working for Henry's uncle or something? It was very unfulfilled, it seems.

[A]

Oh, my God. Also, I do think. And maybe I'm crazy, but I think at the beginning of. Of the season, like, she's trying to be a good wife to him.

[B]

She.

[A]

You know that episode too, like, when she's, like, opening the curtains and she wants to have sex with him and, like, she wants to. You know, and here's. We know what's Yasmin's like in the bedroom. We've seen it in season one two. This guy doesn't even want to touch her, doesn't want to look at her. He doesn't find her like this. She's so unfulfilled. And she's. If her ultimate goal is to feel necessary. This guy is literally saying, like, I have maids that do that. I have other people to have sex with. I have other. Like, I have drugs to get happiness from. Just blend in me, part of the furniture. And, like, as if that's ever gonna happen, you know?

[B]

Never. That episode two is one of the most insane. When that plot twist drops at the end of episode two and you realize he's talking to his dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had no idea.

[A]

I didn't either.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

I also, like, even reading it, I was like, what's going on? And then when we were. When we were, like, on set, I was like, oh, it's a ghost. The ghost of his father. And it all kind of came to me. Also, that actor Jack Farthing is so good.

[B]

Yeah, he's incredible.

[A]

Such a great performance. And Kit is so good in that episode. And, like, when he comes in and those Elton John glasses and kicking up a storm And I mean, it was just wild. Like, it was also. What show was that? Like, we've been doing industry on a trading floor for three. Three seasons. We're suddenly in this, like, manor house in Somerset, and we're just. It's like a period drama. I mean, it was kind of insane, you know? And the woman that played my aunt was amazing.

[B]

She was incredible. When Yaz kicks her out. I know, but that line was so cutting, where she said, like, your father was going to terminate you.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

Dark.

[B]

So dark.

[A]

Takes some punches.

[B]

She really does.

[A]

She gets up.

[B]

She gets up every single time. I'm like, so season five is the last season?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Officially, it's the last season. And I.

[B]

It. Do you think it's gonna, like. I feel like every season it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Did you guys think you were getting a season two after season one?

[A]

No way. So, like, Mickey and Conrad write every season like, it's the last one. And that's why at the end, you're always like, oh, my God. But the fact is, is that. The fact that now in. If that's how they wrote it, I guess they always. If this is the last one, then we want to go out with a band. We don't want to. You don't want to hold any punches. But. But I guess they're always hoping there's another season. Whereas the great thing about season five and what I'm excited for is that they know, yeah, it's not coming back. It's their choice, you know, they were like, we. We don't want it to get worse. So, like, it's done. So what can they do with that energy if they fully don't even hope it's coming back? I'm scared, personally. It'll be fun, you know.

[B]

When did. What. What point did you realize the show was catching on?

[A]

I think when HBO decided to cast Kit Harrington, I was like, oh, the they back here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because Kit brings an audience by himself. We all were like, we were really passionate about creating something that people loved. And just every day we come into work and we'd, like, give it everything. The show has a real energy of, like, it was never like. And cameras are like, so what are you doing? You know what I mean? Yeah. Or, like, really amped up about it. But when Kit joined, I was like, oh, there are going to be eyes on now. And I felt that ramp up. And then when it came out, people were just like, I mean, you could just Feel it more people on the street are like, I'm obsessed with industry.

[B]

Like on Tick Tock.

[A]

Yeah, on Tick Tock, making those amazing. I love, like the little, like, Yasmine Harper montages or whatever. I didn't even. It just. And this season, even more than ever, I want a BAFTA in season three. So that was. Thank you.

[B]

Well deserved, by the way.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Well deserved.

[A]

That one was like, oh, like, people think our performances are like, they're brilliant. Thank you.

[B]

They're brilliant. They're so, like. Is nuance the right word? I mean, like, I'm like, yeah, I think, like, nuances that, like, there's just so much depth. And what's her name is incredible. Sweet pea.

[A]

Miriam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Miriam and I went to youth theater together and where I grew up in Brighton.

[B]

Did you really?

[A]

We. When I. When. I mean, she's younger than me, but what? She must have been like 11 and I was like 14. And we were just sort of like skipping around a room and they were like, now be sunshine, whatever. And. And when she turned up in season three, I was like, Miriam. It was crazy.

[B]

Oh, you had no idea.

[A]

I had no idea she was doing it. But I love her and I think she's so good. I think the casting in the show is so smart. Like, so smart. Who are these? You know, we were all. It was my first job. I was still at drama school when I booked Industry.

[B]

Tell me about, like, the booking of it all.

[A]

This is so embarrassing. So they were. They were Louis Vuitton trainers that I bought for the read through. And I turned up on that day because they were like, yasmin is a rich girl. She's, you know, the. The log line for Yasmin was a vulnerability disguised by Prada. And I thought, okay, like, I need to, like, present. It's like, you know, I was sort of student, I had no money, whatever. I was like, I need to present it. So I knew I was getting this, you know, my first ever paycheck. So with my first paycheck, I went to Louis Vuitton and I bought these trainers, but they were like, hype beastie trainers. Massive.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Ins.

[A]

So not Yasmin. So not anything I would like normally. But I. I was just like, what says lv? The loudest I can possibly see it. Those. I bought them. And I remember turning up and Mickey and Comrade, the writers, looking at me, being like, no, babe, wait.

[B]

But you had already booked the part.

[A]

I'd already booked the part, thank God. Yeah. And the audition was like, Lena Dunham was in the room because obviously she directed episode one. So, like the casting director, Mickey and Conrad. And I remember I had an audition that was just me. Then I did a chemistry read with Harry for Robert then. Yeah, I mean, I was like. I said I was still at drama school. I booked it before I graduated. So I, like, went back to RADA halfway through episode one to graduate. Like, it was insane. I was literally 22.

[B]

You were 22 when you booked it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

Do you remember the scene that you auditioned with?

[A]

Yes, it was. It was a scene. Well, one of them was a scene. The scene where Kenny puts Yasmin on the bin and she has to like, pitch what she thinks.

[B]

Kenny was horrible.

[A]

He was horrible.

[B]

And you forget that. Yeah, I forgot that in season four until you literally just reminded me that

[A]

he was like, bullied her at work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then when she tried to, like, bully someone back, he was like, no.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why his, like, growth. Sober journey. Yeah, right.

[B]

But that's why her decisions, like, make, like, they don't make sense, cuz they're horrible. But, like, you understand why we've. How we've gotten.

[A]

How we've gotten to a point. Yeah, for sure. I mean, doing the chemistry read with him was really useful. With Harry was really useful. I mean, I remember Harry being like, well, now we're, like, very, very close friends and we're halfway through season one. We were like, talking and he was like, I thought you were a. In that chemistry read. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah. I remember thinking, oh, she's gonna get it. And like, this is gonna be such a nightmare. And I was like, no way. It's probably great for the chemistry because that kind of was the vibe. But I was. No, it was nerves. I was nervous that he wasn't really talking to him. He already had the part.

[B]

Right. And you had it.

[A]

I hadn't. I didn't have it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it was ner. Guess I wasn't like, hi. Nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, hello. Yeah, let's go. I go here. I'm getting a job. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I really also. She's the dominant one sexually in that relationship. So I was like, you had. He had the power in the room because he had the job. I didn't. But I was like, don't me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I'm here to, like, I'm the boss.

[B]

Did you ever have to do a chemistry read with Mahala?

[A]

No. Which is insane, because we have the best chemistry ever. So. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God, by the way, because if the show would just be a complete. I don't even know if Yasmin would be a character anymore if it wasn't for, like, that chemistry. It became the love story of the show, and it so easily couldn't have been.

[B]

It's the only love I feel like they know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Is with each other.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's like they keep betraying each other, and it's like, how. How low is too low for them until there's no going back?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, maybe this will.

[B]

You finally see Harper have morals.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.

[B]

You finally see her be like, what is going on?

[A]

This is her line.

[B]

The crazy. The craziest part of season four was when you were at the. The house in Austria.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And you're looking at the painting and it says, a Hitler.

[A]

I know, I know, I know, I know. And she's like, what the.

[B]

You're at an actual Nazi house.

[A]

I know, I know, I know. It was insane. It was insane. I literally was like, I. I said to Mickey and Karate, I was like, this is so dark. And, like, the fact that Yasmin goes for a walk with her afterwards, and it's like, what are we? I mean, no, actually, that was at the end, wasn't it? But still invites her to the dinner at the. I was like.

[B]

Sits her next to Harper, and when

[A]

she sits at the. On the sofa with Harper at the very end, it's like, I'm really sorry. Obviously, I had no idea. Lies.

[B]

You had every idea.

[A]

You saw the Hitler painting. But I feel like Yasmin almost believes it herself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, well, you know, everything's kind of excusable. I didn't know that they'd actually be racist, like, then and there.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, it's one thing to have a Hitler painting. It's another thing to be, like, racist at a dinner table.

[B]

Yasmin just, like, is full of excuses.

[A]

Full of excuses.

[B]

Yeah. What do you make of the. Her playing her dad's voicemail over and over and over again?

[A]

I think it's a bit like, you know what they tell you Scientologists kind of do, which is, like, trauma, like, shock therapy. How many times can you listen to this thing that is. That has traumatized you?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Until you are completely devoid of, like, the horrible emotional response from it? That's what she's trying to do. She's like, we're seeing herself, like, numbness in real time. Look, you know, like, I always. I see Yasmin this season is like a big kind of, like, door. Like, doors being, like, locked one at a time, right? And that's the final, like, clink.

[B]

And she's just like, yeah, a villain.

[A]

Yeah, a villain. I mean, I don't want to say, like, she's in her villain era, because that makes it sound, like, better. It's like, just. It's fully. Like, there's no.

[B]

There's no coming back from what's happened.

[A]

There isn't. But we're about to do a season five, so what the Is happening?

[B]

I don't.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I'm. Are you. When do you guys start filming again?

[A]

August. I have the first episodes.

[B]

Do you really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't even. Normally, I would be like, tell me everything off camera. I don't even want to know.

[A]

No, I don't think you do.

[B]

I need to experience it.

[A]

Like, I don't want to know before I go in. I want to read the episodes as they come. The only time I needed to know ahead of time was season three, where obviously, in episode six, it's clear that Yasmine's killed. Yasmin's killed her dad.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So you need to know that from the beginning because there's flashbacks. But if there's no flashbacks, I don't need to know because Yasmin doesn't know. So, like, let it happen in real time. But, I mean, you know, I read these last two episodes, and I was

[B]

like, are they doozies? Like, yeah.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Like, does it put season four on its head? Kind of

[A]

the thing. The great thing about Mickey and Comrade is that they don't go, like, exposition at the beginning of the episode as to why, like, everything has changed now. They back themselves, and they're like, oh, we said this is where it was gonna go, so this is where we are. But it's not necessarily, like, you know, it's not what you'd expect.

[B]

It never is. No, never is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I miss pure point.

[A]

I know. Me, too.

[B]

I miss the good old days.

[A]

I know. A trading floor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I said simple. I was like, it would be really nice to see, you know, at some point in season five, a big trading floor scene. I don't know where that would happen

[B]

or how it would.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, truly, your performance this season has just been nothing short of extraordinary.

[A]

It is so nice.

[B]

It's true. And I tell you every time I see you out, I'm always like, oh,

[A]

my God, I love that every time I see you out, like, I'm just, like, always, like, out and about on the street.

[B]

But you. Every time I see you, always, like, I love you.

[A]

I know, I know, I know, I know. And I really appreciate it. Obviously, it's, like, the nicest thing.

[B]

Well, it's well, well deserved.

[A]

Thank you, Louise.

[B]

Do you have any questions? Because this is Louise's. Today is Louise's Roman Empire.

[A]

I mean, I guess it's not like there's just so much. There's so much meat to the show. Like, Henry. Can we talk more about your relationship with Henry?

[B]

Yeah, I would love to touch on more of that, because. Do you love him? Did you love him?

[A]

Did she ever. I think. I think that he. Like, if you're going to marry for money, you don't really ever know fully whether you're in love with someone or not. Like, what they are giving you is so valuable.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It feels like love. I also don't think that Yasmin fully understands what, like, love is. Did she ever, like, lie in bed thinking, I wonder if he's thinking about me. No. No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't think. And did she. About Robert? Yes. But does Yasmin necessarily equate that to love? I don't think so. I think she thinks, like, can I visualize a life with this man? Yes. Do I want. Do I want to buy what he's selling? Yes. Am I attracted to him? Yes. Like, that's enough for her. Did she love him unconditionally? Does she love. Would she ever have put him above herself? No, but she would never do that for anyone. Maybe Harper maybe. Maybe had a push. We haven't seen it yet, but, like,

[B]

I pray that there's just, like, I. I know there won't be, but I need a happy ending for them.

[A]

I know. Me, too.

[B]

Because, like, that scene where they're at the bar and she says, like, when the fuck are you gonna look after me? And she says, tonight. And they. And you guys, like, find you, like, kiss and you dance and you do drugs and you're like. And it's like, that's the. I think the only moment of, like, hope throughout all of season four.

[A]

Yeah. I think the best thing we could see from Yasmin that would feel redeemable to an audience that loves Harper as well, I think, would be for her to do something that feels, like, purely altruist, like, purely good for Harper. Like, a selfless act for Harper is, like, what we need from Yasmin in season five.

[B]

We've never seen it.

[A]

No, we've never seen it.

[B]

Like, even when Harper was staying at Yasmin's house, Yasmine kind of, like, held it over her head a bit.

[A]

100%. 100%. Yeah. But I do think, like, I think that Yasmin loves Harper more than she's ever loved anyone else on the show. I think she. I think she did love Robert, but I don't know. But it's like, it's not, you know? Yeah. And I think she loved just how much Robert loved her. 100. I think she miss Robert. I mean, the garden scene, it just wrecks me.

[B]

I can't even talk about that, by the way.

[A]

Also, yeah. I've not done a sex scene in this show in a while. I didn't do one in season four. I don't think that was. The last one I did was that bench scene with Robert.

[B]

I forgot about that.

[A]

And that was like. It was like, the first time that I think anyone really on the show had, like, made love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and it was like. It was the least. It was the most sentimental I'd seen the show was that. And there's that whole flashback of, like, all of the moments of their relationship. I mean, Mickey and Karan aren't really that. The show is not. It's pretty unsentimental and pretty savage. And then you get moments like that, and it's like, oh, my God, it's so. I miss Robert, too. And I think that, like. I think that he just opens up things for both Harper and Yasmin. That is useful for an audience. You know, it's just.

[B]

It would be nice for the final season one last time to see the whole gang get back together for, like, five seconds.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's all, like, could ever want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Marisa, what are you therapist about today?

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay, let me think about this. What do people normally say?

[B]

Like, what kind of anything.

[A]

Anything.

[B]

I'm therapist. That I'm, like, back in the throes of euphoria.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Like, I thought I was off it.

[A]

I need to.

[B]

And I'm back on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty hardcore.

[A]

Are you enjoying it?

[B]

Because.

[A]

Is it one a week?

[B]

It's one a week. And the thing about Euphoria, that I didn't think they would do that. They did is the characters have all connected again. I thought too much time had passed from season two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That, like, Nate and Cassie were doing their own thing. Alexa Demi was doing her own thing. Like, ever. Rue was doing her, like, everyone was off doing their own thing, but they all come back and connect. That's episode three and it gets you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was sitting there on the couch last night, like, I'm back in it.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so amazing to be able to. To bring all of those people. I mean, those like. Like a list celebrity, right together. How. I don't know how they managed to do that.

[B]

Well, it took five years.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's true. It's kind of amazing. I would say that I am pissed

[B]

about how hot it is in this room. Tell me.

[A]

You know what I'm pissed about? I am pissed about how far LA away is away from London. That's what I'm pissed about.

[B]

It's far.

[A]

I wish it was closer. I love it here so much. I really do. And I also am pissed about people being like, I hate la and vice versa. I hate. I hate when people in London are like, I could never live there, like. And I hate when people here are like, I could never. I hate London. I'm like, how a lot of people here are like, I hate London.

[B]

What. What is there to hate about London besides the doom and gloom?

[A]

I. I think the. Obviously, everyone's like, I hate the weather, but also people are just like, it's not like New York in the. It's not like anything could happen. It's all quite rare. And I do get that. But I think you. Once you kind of get under the skin of London, it's the best city. I think it's like one of the best cities in the world, obviously.

[B]

Like New York on crack.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think it's.

[B]

Where are these people going in London?

[A]

I know. I think they're, like, staying at the Corinthian, a press tour, and they don't. They're not going anywhere else. You know what I mean? But I love being in la. I think it's so fun. But I hate the fact that it is 11 hours away on a plane. Can't sleep on a plane. So I'm just sat there like that.

[B]

You can't. You don't even. You can't take anything to sleep.

[A]

I mean, listen a bit like. I mean, listen, usually I'm landing and then I'm going to work. So I like. I'm like, no, I can't. I don't want to. Like, I. I'm always. That shit stays with me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'd be sat here right now, like, right.

[B]

Right song.

[A]

So, yeah. So obviously I'm always coming here to work, so I can't. But I. Yeah, I wish it was closer.

[B]

I love London.

[A]

Do you? Yeah. What's your favorite thing to do in London?

[B]

I think what I love about London is how. And I say this about Europe as a whole, is how day by day, the culture is, as opposed to, like, let's think a thousand miles in the future. Because I think a thousand miles in the future every single day. And that's just like, how I was raised in New York, how I was. How I live here. It's like, people can say LA is very day by day, but it's not. But in Europe, it's very like, wake up. What do we do today? Yeah, let me get my job done for the day, for sure. Let me exist as a person today, and then we'll figure out tomorrow.

[A]

Well, I think that's also about, like. Oh, I can just sort of walk around and decide what it is I want to do and bump into a person and have a kind of, like, spontaneous moment. Whereas here, that is the one thing there's no. You can't be spontaneous, really, can you? And you have to have it figured out because, like, you've got to get in your car and drive for a while.

[B]

And I don't drive.

[A]

I'm. I know. That's insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I obviously get Ubers everywhere when I'm here, because I've never. I don't want to drive on the other side of the road. That freaks me out. I. I can't, so. And I can't imagine living here and Ubering everywhere. That is.

[B]

I know my Uber drivers.

[A]

I know my Uber drivers because they probably live like. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Do you get recognized, like, a bunch in London?

[A]

Yes. In London. It depends. But the thing is, the difference is, in London, I would get recognized by bankers, mostly.

[B]

Oh. All the bankers watching the show, they love it.

[A]

They're obsessed with it because it's real. Yeah. It strikes a chord for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in London, I would get recognized mostly by bankers. And obviously in LA and New York, I get recognized by creatives.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's a different feeling, because you're like. People aren't like Yasmin. They're like, oh, my God, the actress that plays Yasmin. And they want to talk to you about, like, the making of the show. Or, like, you. Whereas the. Whereas people in London are like, it's Yasmin. Yeah. I'm like, it's not, but have you

[B]

ever been, like, scared to, like, play a certain storyline out for Yasmin because you're, like, scared to, like, portray it or.

[A]

Yeah, I was definitely scared about the end of this season, so I was like, it's just. It's so dark. And also I was like, are people going to be okay in terms of their own experiences watching this? Like that? I think you have to be aware of and, like, aware of, you know, whenever you're getting into kind of areas around, like, consent and all that kind of stuff, we've got to be careful in a. In an artistic way. I'm not necessarily scared to, like, broach difficult territory. I think as an actor, the things I'm usually more scared about are, like, sex scenes or, like, you know, that's like, nerve wracking. Whenever I see that in a script, I'm like, okay, I've got on. Or there's going to be a day in that month where I am naked in front of a whole room full of people. And I actually find that scarier than the camera that's capturing it, that's going to show it to a million people. Which is. Which is weird. Like, I'm.

[B]

Because you can separate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like you can be like, that's gone now. But when you're actively naked in front of. I can't even imagine.

[A]

Right. Because also when the camera goes down, it's. It's me again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's vulnerable. Whereas I'm really quite free about the fact that, like, that person that exists inside your television isn't me, but the person that exists when you put the camera down is. So if I'm then still stood there naked, it's like I'll have been like, wow, with the camera's up. And then as soon as they go down, I'm like this. Because I'm like, that's so exposing, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you. You've just been talking to the boom up about the fact that, like, his kid is going to nursery tomorrow, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, I'm naked, right? Yeah.

[B]

And it's just jarring.

[A]

Yeah, that's jarring.

[B]

When did you know you wanted to act?

[A]

I. Well, my mother is an actor and she mostly does theater, has always done theater. And I. She raised me sort of. She was a single mother. So when I was. When it was at school holidays and stuff, she was in a play, I'd be like in the rehearsal room for her plays, or I'd be in the dressing room while she was getting ready. So I was around it a lot. But at the Same time, I knew that it was quite a up and down career. I knew that like, you know, sometimes it went better than others. And like, in the years where it, it wasn't so good, it was kind of sketchy and it was a hard career, so I resisted it for a long time. And although I would do school plays and stuff like that, I didn't want to do it necessarily as a career. I actually was accepted to university to do history with a law conversion and that was my goal. And then when I was going to open days at universities, I was like, I don't care. I, like, just don't care. Like, I want to be an actor, but I'm just scared. And I think I needed the validate. I went to drama school and a lot of people don't, but I needed the. I needed an institution like RADA to say to me, you're good enough for me to believe it, to commit to a lifetime of being an actor.

[B]

And then did you, Were you on a bunch of auditions before industry or

[A]

was industry Was like maybe my third professional audition ever.

[B]

And did you like think anything? Like, did you go into it thinking, like, I'm gonna book this, this show is gonna change my life, or I

[A]

have to say, like, okay, no, I didn't know that it was going to change my life. And I didn't. I knew it was good. I'd read enough scripts by that point to know that like, this was really good. Didn't. I wasn't like, I'm gonna get this. But I have said, I think I like accidentally manifested my whole life. Like, I was never, like, I was never like, oh, is it gonna happen for me? I think once I got into RADA and once I was, you know, in that amazing creative space with amazing actors and like surrounded by people that were inspiring to me, I was like, like, you have to back yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Otherwise it's such a scary industry. It's such a scary. I mean, you know what it's like when you're, if you're gonna put yourself out there, you have to like, think something can happen from it. Otherwise, what's the point? So when I walked in that room, did I know I was gonna get at the part?

[B]

No.

[A]

But was I? Like, if they give it to me, I could do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I was excited. And I didn't think for a second, like, you know, on that first season, like, that I would end up here about to do a fifth season. Really? In a show that people think is good. No, I, I Didn't know it was going to be like that. Yeah, it's amazing.

[B]

Are you. Are you scared to say goodbye to Yaz?

[A]

I am. I am scared to say goodbye. I am. I love. I love playing her. I'm excited for the future. Like, what. What? You know, at the end of the day, there is something obviously incredible about being in something for five seasons, but also it's a lot of time. So what does my life look like when I'm a bit more free? I. Part of the great thing about being an actor is, like, playing all of these different roles. So I'm excited to see what that brings. But. And you know, you do. You take meetings with people and they're always like, and have you got another season of industry? And you're like, yeah. And they're like, okay, well, I'll see you after Easy then. So that's exciting. But, yeah, I mean, I just hope, my God, like, wherever we end this last season is where she ends.

[B]

And that is the suckiest part.

[A]

Thank God she didn't end here, though, because they would. Yeah, they were. For sure they would. If HBO didn't pick it up, like, that would, like, that's the last image of Yasmin lying on that floor listening to her dad's voicemail. I mean, bleak.

[B]

Really bleak.

[A]

But who knows? A lot. The next one might be even bleaker.

[B]

So I pray it's not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I know it will be. I know that's the worst part is I know that it was. It's kid in industry. I feel like there is not a happy ending for anyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ever.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I know. I think that maybe Rob got an okay and he's driving away. I mean, obviously it was like, heartbreaking.

[B]

Where did he go off to again? The States, right? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Or. Or San Francisco or something to. To sell mushrooms.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good for him.

[B]

Good for him. Do you keep in touch with Harry?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. My hollow. Harry and I are very close.

[B]

How are you dealing with, like, visibility in the public? How do you handle that? Because I feel like every season for industry gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I never think of myself as someone who. Anyone really. I mean, like, fame, it's so interesting. There are such varying degrees of it in our industry. You see people that are like. It feels crazy for me to talk about fame when, like, you know, there are, like, people that are so famous in the world. You know what I mean? There's a. Like. All I care about is having the level of success. That means I can book whatever job I want to do. And, like, so for that, with industry, I feel like it's a kind of a perfect level of people that watch it, especially in our industry, like it enough to think, like, she's good. She could do this. You know what I mean? That's great. When I'm not so, you know, sometimes when people are like. For example, I was, like, picking up a prescription the other day, my pharmacy in London, and I was like. It was like, post workout, I was, like, holding, like, pills like this in my hand, and someone was like, can I get a picture? And I was like, I really don't want to be the person who's like, no. Right at this point in my career. It's like, who do you think you are? You know, it's not like everyone's stopping me every five minutes on the street, but, like, you know, you should. That kind of side of it is a bit. It is, I guess, a bit jarring. But I just, like, love that people love the show, and it always depends what they say. When people are like, I love. If someone's like, I loved you in Back to Black or I loved you in Black Bag, I'm like, oh, I'm always. I always expect it to be industry. So when it's something else, I'm like, oh, that's so.

[B]

Oh, I know. I told you I loved Back to Black.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I really did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought you did an excellent job.

[A]

It's very kind of you. It was a. A. You know, it's. It's a big one, and it's stressful to take on something that is so. In terms of visibility, you know, that's hard. Taking something on where, like, people have genuine. It's one thing whether people think that, like, people hate Yasmin or love Yasmin, but they, like. At the end of the day, if they're watching industry, it's because they like the show. Whereas when you're playing someone like Amy Winehouse, that's gonna just come with opinions that is very difficult to juggle.

[B]

Well, because people are like, you are taking on someone that we know.

[A]

We know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And we know her. And that was always. The thing with Amy was I feel like that people. She was this ingenue that everyone thought they knew, and she just completely, like, rejected that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you kind of saw that in the way people react to anything done with her.

[A]

Right, right. Also, it's like they're like. They have personal connections to her music, which I have nothing to do with. Which I completely understand. You know, you're like, if. That's. If Back to Black is the album you listen to when you were going through your first heartbreak or when you were like, didn't have friends at school, and that was the album that you listened to. And then there's like, this girl that's like, I'm about to play Amy Winehouse. You're a bit like, well, that's. She's my. What are you talking. You know what I mean? I get that. But it's interesting, I think, that, you know, I think the women have a very hard time with biopics. Often people are a bit more like, no, you stay in your lane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? And I think that that's hard, and it's hard to watch, frankly. Like, you know, young men get away with it in a way that, like, I just see people, you know, attached to things, and then there's an outcry online and then they drop out. Because, you know, I think it's. It's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's hard.

[B]

It's almost like we see you as this star.

[A]

Right?

[B]

We see you as Marisa Abella, this star. You also can't be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This person 100. It's like, almost like all the dudes can get along, but it's like all the. Like, the woman can't be other.

[A]

And also, it's like, was she. I think there's a thing of like, would she have even liked you? You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's like, can these two women share a space? You know? And I think people are a bit more like, who do you think you are? That is an icon and who do you think you are? And, like, people don't want that from women, which is. It's hard to take it, to step into it. What you're saying is you are willing to at least try and fill this space of something that is massive and amazing, and people are like, not you. You know what I mean? And that's really. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, unfortunately. But it's what I love about Mickey and Conrad writing industry. Like, you know, they're like, be messy, make mistakes, go crazy. And it really gives us a space to not be so afraid. I mean, you know, I. I remember when I was filming Back to Black, I was like, people are gonna hate this. And I never felt like that with industry. Even when I'm doing something like the end of season four. Yeah, you Know, people might hate this, but I'm like, I never feel like people are gonna hate me.

[B]

It's because. Yeah, it feels like. I don't know, I feel like I view it as such, like a. People view like, like women as like. We want you to be successful in this bubble we've created. The second you join bubbles with another female or whatever, like exist outside of the space we've created you in. Like, it's your.

[A]

I don't want to know. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. Well, what's something you, like, learned about Amy while filming that? Because I'm a huge fan.

[A]

Are you? Yeah. Yeah, me too. I mean, she's just the most amazing artist, I guess. I mean, there were so many things. Things like, I mean, little stories that were helpful were things like, you know, she had this. She had a bird that she loved and it died when she was 12, called Ava after like Ava Gardner and they had a funeral for it. Like she loved animals. Things like that. Like, she was so giving. She would always. They were like neighbors that she had that she would always like try and support financially. Incredibly giving, incredibly generous. Which I think gets lost in the fact that, you know, in just her reputation and, and the, the kind of the like outbursts that she would have publicly sort of out Sean. Everything else but this spirit of generosity. And people around her, when I was researching for the role would say things to me like, that is so important. She was so funny. Like she could make a whole room of people laugh and she was like, she was, you know, she could have been a stand up if she wanted to be. She could have been this. And I think that that was really important. Yes, I'm playing like Amy Winehouse, the singer, but it's like, no, you're paying the person, the person that could have been a million things if she wanted to be. And I think the main thing that I wanted to explore was like her capacity for love. Like this woman that like wanted so badly to like be loved and be a wife and a mother. And like, that was the heartbreak for me in the story was, I mean, she couldn't have reached higher heights in her career. But again, like, where do you play? Where does your value come from? I mean, I think the thing about Amy was that she was someone with like actually a lot of self belief. If anyone had told her she was a bad singer, she'd have been like, as if. Yeah, she 100 knew that she was like great in that way. But did that give her the sense of value that she was really looking for? As a person. No. And that's why where drugs and alcohol come in, you know. Yes. There's, like, there's a fear and there's a shyness when someone steps on stage. And I do think that that, that got to her because she. People thought she was great, so she had to be great every time. But really that, like, that hole came from the fact that, like, this thing that she was great at wasn't.

[B]

Yeah. Fulfilling her.

[A]

Oh, God, it's heartbreaking.

[B]

It's really heartbreaking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have a favorite Amy song?

[A]

I think Love is a Losing Game. It's like, one of the greatest songs of all time. I found Me pumps, though, the first album. More like.

[B]

I love that song.

[A]

I love doing all of that album. Like, playing that version of Amy was so great because obviously it's more joyful. So it was so fun to, like, play me pumps and do all that stuff. Obviously. Yeah. But Love is a Losing Game.

[B]

What's that song she has about the guy being gay? Maybe.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, please go to her first album. What's it called? It's called, like. It's so Good.

[A]

It's so funny.

[B]

It's so. It's. She's so witty. She was so witty. Oh, stronger than me.

[A]

Stronger than me.

[B]

Stronger than me.

[A]

Of course. Also, by the way, I had to sing that song a million. It didn't say that. I couldn't even remember the name. I've seen that song a million times because it was a montage in the movie. So I sung it in, like, a hundred different versions of where she was. And it was. I mean, I probably sang that song more than any other song in the film in terms of, like, how many times I actually sang it. It was. That's what I mean. She's like. She could have been a Stand up. That is a hilarious song.

[B]

Yeah, it's a. Yeah. It's like, you know, are you gay? Yeah. Are you gay? Like, why am I. Yeah. Taking care of you. I feel like all she wanted to do was be so loved and taken

[A]

care of, she needs to be looked after. But at the same time, like, the pure force of personality. I mean, people would say things to me, like, the thing about Amy was if she decided she was not into you that day, like, it was the coldest place you could possibly be.

[B]

Really.

[A]

Like, she was a savage in that way. Like, when you were in her, when you were basking in her light, it was like the warmest, most beautiful place to be. If she was in a bad mood with you it was, like, not fun, right? Like, oh, gave me chills. I was like, okay. Just powerful. Yeah, very powerful.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

I think one day I'll be able to watch it and be, like, at least, like, proud of the person that did that, like, was to film that for that, you know, it did it. It's. It's a hard one for me. But, you know, I. Yeah, I'm glad now. I'm glad I did it, and I'm glad it exists.

[B]

But was it tough in the moment when people, like, had opinions about it?

[A]

It was. It was tough. And it was tough because, like, you know, I had to. At the end of the day, it was a film that was, like, about this one person, and I was playing her. I had to promote it. And the question that everybody, every journalist would ask me was like, how are you dealing with the fact that, like, no one wants you to be doing this? And I'd be like, it's so brutal. And I'd be like, well, you know, it was. Yeah, it's hard, but I think the. The film speaks for itself and you have to just go. But it's like, why would you ask me that?

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, we want to be like, is. And there was also a part of me that was like, Amy would tell you to off if you ask her that question. Am I allowed to swear? Because I feel like I've swear.

[B]

Yes. Oh, my God, yes.

[A]

But I have to sit here like an idiot and. And just be polite and like, whatever. Just like, not along and. And it was. It's brutal. It's horrible. It's so. But so actually, yeah, even more than people, because at the end of the day, something like Twitter or Instagram or whatever, it exists until you delete the app, and then it's not real anymore. You know what I mean? Like, no one. It's as real as you make it. So you can be there, like, doom scrolling. I deleted Instagram. I didn't have Instagram for, like, nine months because the day. The first day I was on set was in Soho and there were paparazzi pictures and they went out and it was like. Everyone was like, boo. You know, and it freaks. I was like. It was so jarring. But I was just like, delete. And then I've got to do my job at the end of the day. Yeah, I can't not turn up to work tomorrow. So I have to turn up to work tomorrow and believe it and do it. How can I create an environment where I can do my job? So I just deleted the app and I didn't see it so it wasn't real until people would tell me it was. And like, you know, it's always, it's always the people that are like, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, okay, I'll never. I know you're not my friend. You know what I mean?

[B]

How are you doing?

[A]

Yeah. They're like, oh my God, I couldn't do that. I couldn't do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So strong. I can, could not do it. I'm okay. You're saying I couldn't like do the job where like everyone hate, like do tell me that you know what I mean. I don't.

[B]

Cuz you're being dumb.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I want you as my friend to lie to me right now and say it's not even that. Like, it's not even that. Who cares?

[B]

Who cares?

[A]

Like their losers. Everyone like is going to be amazed by you know what I mean? Like you, that's what you need in those moments. So that was harder was like the, when people, you know what I mean? But I, I is, I think, I think it taught me a lesson of like what it is I want from my career. Like when I, when I take a job, why am I taking it? Like what kind of characters do I want to explore? And I need to be able to. When I'm doing promotion for something back it. I need to be able to because otherwise it's a long, it's a long slog, this job. You know, you can't just, it's not the three months that you're filming of the six months or the one month or the whatever. It's like these things exist now and they're online and they're on Amazon or they're on whatever and people are going to be able to watch it forever. So you need to be able to

[B]

back it a thousand percent.

[A]

Yeah, but I remember you saying to me, and I mean, I don't know if it's too much, but remember you saying to me like, there's a community you like online that you're like, you don't know whether they like people fully accept you. And that means the same.

[B]

Oh no. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I said this to you at the Oscar night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, oh my God, that week after, was, was it. Yes. Oh my God, I got destroyed.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because people thought I did a, a bad job on the carpet, which was whatever. But what I realized though at the end of it is that like, well, I'm still breathing.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. And I'M like, what's the worst that could happen? What just happened? And I'm still doing it.

[B]

And it's crazy because I always thought people. I would always say, I'm so scared to get in trouble. I always think about it, like, going to the. Like, getting in trouble, like, with the, like, my audience or with people watching me. And then I was so petrified of it. So petrified of it. It, like, consumed my entire being. It still somewhat does. But then at the end of the week, when I was still alive and breathing, and, like, I was like, oh, yeah, I still have my friends. Yeah, of course I still have my bed.

[A]

That's it, isn't it? You're like, everyone's gonna be ashamed of me to, like, be around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a panic that sets in at the end of the day. This must be a reason that we do this and, like, put ourselves in the firing line for all of it. Because you want to be validated. You want people to be like, I love watching you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I love. I agree with you. I love, like. And so. So when you put yourself in the firing line and the exact opposite happens, you're like, oh, no, this feels bad. And of course it does. Like, evolutionarily, even, like, think about it. You're being, like, cast out by the, like, you know what people that you're

[B]

begging to accept you.

[A]

It is so jarring. And it feels like fight or flight feels like panic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you have to. It's really hard to kind of separate your worth from that thing and be like, oh, I can still do my job. I can still carry on, and I can still. It doesn't mean. But then what's hard is that you also have to not believe people when they say, you're amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you can't be like, oh, I don't agree when you take. Say I do a horrible job, but when you say, I do a great job, I believe you.

[B]

You know, you just have to have that, like, in a foreign faith of, like, trudging forward, like, no matter what noise, good or bad. And it's so easy to be taken by both.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I remember I had to do a recording that week in the height of, like, when everyone was really angry at me. And I remember I was like, oh, my God, this. I thought they were gonna cancel. Like, I thought all my recordings were gonna cancel.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And then I. I would. You remember that? And I walked in and I was like, well, I'm. I'm so surprised you guys are here like, da, da. And they were like, girl, who cares? They were like, also.

[A]

The other thing is, is that I think if you've got a good community around you, people within our industry that, like, if anything, when I see that happen to someone, my instinct is to be like, no, yeah, don't do that to them. You know what I mean? Like, don't. That's so. Because it's so. It's just so stupid, you know, it's like. It's like, this is. At the end of the day, it's. It's not. It's not life or death. Like, it's not. It's.

[B]

There are real things in this world that are life and death.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And people don't give that the attention they give.

[A]

No. Oh, 100 people online.

[B]

It is like, the craziest thing.

[A]

Situations where people can genuinely get away with murder, legitimate murder. And we're like, you know, my, like, wig is to the side. And people are like, never again. Like, yeah, it's canceled. It's crazy.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

But even, like, also people, it doesn't matter to anyone else as much as it matters to you. Like, I didn't even. You know what I mean? I didn't see that. I had no idea that that happened to you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you. But to you, it feels like the end of the world gonna want to work with me again. I remember saying that to my agents after. After that, I was like, people are gonna be like, oh, poor girl. She was good in industry. It's such a shame we can never work with her again.

[B]

You felt that way?

[A]

100%. Yeah. I felt like. I was like. It was like. Like you say it's like. It's like you become like a virus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you take on this virus of, like, hatred that other people are pouring onto you. You didn't do anything necessarily to deserve it. But it's like once you're contaminated by it, everyone's like, got a hazmat suit on. And they're like, peace. Peace.

[B]

And that's. And that's why it's like that. If that made me realize anything, it's like, oh, my God, I'm so grateful I have real friends.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because there are certain people that don't have friends.

[A]

No.

[B]

And their friends are all people in work. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm so grateful. I have best friends from college.

[A]

And I was going to say, so do your friends not all work in the industry because you grew up in la?

[B]

They do now. But it's a very. My best friend who you just met, Alice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Still works, like, normal job, works retail. Like, she really is a very grounding voice for me.

[A]

When someone that you know wants the best for you, it's like, I love that person that you have in your life. You're like, oh, actually, that's probably good. I should definitely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

And she, like, she gives me, like, the toughest, toughest, toughest love when I don't want to hear it. I do not want to hear it. She'll come. Like, I'll be on cloud nine. She'll come grabbing me down. Like, don't get. Like, don't get it twisted.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, you're. This is a false sense of whatever. That week when that was all going down, she was the one person that made me feel better more than anyone else. And I thought she was going to be the one that was like, I don't even remember. I just remember hanging up the phone and feeling better. It's all I remember. It's just hanging up the phone and being like, oh, my God. Like, I thought she was gonna be like, you shouldn't have done that. You shouldn't have done this. This was a mistake. She, like, didn't do any of that. She. I hung up the phone and I felt like a weight was lifted. I was like, oh, my God. At least I have Alice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

100. I know exactly how that feels. And I think that it's the friends that offer you tough love, though, that in the moments where you. Not when. When you need. You just need support, can also give it to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the people that are being like your biggest cheerleaders on your up that are. Then, like, when you're down, like, those are the moments where they, like, they don't quite know how to handle the awkward thing of it being like, oh, this is slightly messy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whereas, like, you know, it is this career, this life, it is messy.

[B]

It's messy.

[A]

You need people to be able to be like hits or whatever. It's up, it's down. It's like, you know, I remember, you know, I have a. My best friend is like, is. He's the same. He's like that for me. And I'm like, he has been going through a bit of a tough time recently, career wise. He's an actor too, and he just had, like, the biggest win. And. And I was. Been with him for all of it. And I'm like, but what's great is that, like, you know, things have been going pretty well for me. And it never. It's tough when you have friends that are in the same industry as you. It's hard to watch when you're not feeling great about your career at the moment and you have a friend who's, like, you know, on a press junket doing it. It never gets in the way. And that's.

[B]

But that's human to feel that way, though.

[A]

It is. By the way, that is the most human thing ever.

[B]

And I. People feel like these days paint it very black and white and, like, villainize jealousy. And it's not really, like, this villainous. It's not feeling. It's this very natural. And it all comes from insecurity.

[A]

Of course it does.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Whenever I felt jealous, it's because I'm like. I don't know. That's lacking in me or in my life. It's not because I'm like, I'm amazing. And I. And you're. You don't deserve. Why would anyone not. Whatever. You know what I mean? I completely agree with you.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. I feel like my third eye was just open.

[A]

Do you do therapy?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I have a new. I actually just got a new therapist for my ocd. She's been good.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But I don't, like, there's. God. Therapy's just, like, some days you're, like, in it, and then some days you're, like, counting down the seconds for it to be over.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. Yep. So funny, though. I always find that, like, I don't find the time for it when I need it, and when I do need. When I don't need it, I'm like, I could do some therapy. Like, I have time in my life. So stupid. I just have been diagnosed with ocd.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Well, because I never thought I had it because I don't give it. I don't care about things being clean. Neither do I. I thought it was about cleanliness. It's not like it's a part of it. Obviously. I'm like. I'm not, like, dirty, whatever. But, like, my room's a mess and, like, I'll come home from. I'll come home from work. Like, now there's no way I'm getting home and unpacking my suitcase the day I land. That's not how my. So I was always like, I don't have ocd. I know people that, like, everything's in their perfect place. That's not who I am. But obviously, like, obsessive compulsive. Yeah. In Other ways.

[B]

Can I ask what made you. What, like, how did you get diagnosed?

[A]

I. I was like, I can't turn my brain off. I just can't turn my brain off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I went being like. It's just. I. I. And I'm thinking the same things all the time. And also, I'm, like, always making lists, and I'm always being like, these are the tasks that I have and what. And the end of the thing, you know, I'm. I have a lot of stress, and I kept telling myself, oh, I have so much stress in my life. And I was creating this, like, kind of whirlwind of, like, these. I just. Abs. I just. I become obsessed with things, and I can't become unobsessed. Like, intrusive thoughts, I guess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was.

[B]

And then you get scared of manifesting those thoughts that you're like, it's like the most insane, insane pattern.

[A]

This is the thing. Because I'm also like, I really believe that words have power.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Super believe in manifestation and, like, super believe in, like. I think I've willed everything, both good and bad, into my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that makes me scared.

[B]

But that's why OCD is so scary.

[A]

So scary. Because you're like, oh.

[B]

And you can't talk about it, but you can't stop thinking about it, thinking it.

[A]

And you're like, oh, I'm thinking this thing, and therefore it's gonna happen.

[B]

Yeah. And yes.

[A]

And it's like having a big red button, like. And someone's like, don't press it. And then your brain is like, press

[B]

it, press it, press it, press it. Yeah.

[A]

And then, I mean, this is kind of dark, but I had cancer in 2020, and I convinced myself that I'd thought it into existence. And that was like. I mean, obviously, that's crazy. I was. I was 20. I was crazy now.

[B]

But in the moment.

[A]

In the moment, I was like, like, I remember when I got the diagnosis, I was like, I knew it. I literally like that crazy. You know what I mean? Instead of being like, right. I was like, I knew it. And it's like, because where. As soon as. As. As soon as I felt ill, I was like, I'm sick. I'm really sick.

[B]

Oh, and then you felt like it was on you.

[A]

Yeah. And then I thought it was on me because I was like, in another world. If I'd have been like, I'm probably fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It wouldn't have been that. I mean, I know logically, I know that's insane, but also who knows? You know what I mean? I. Obviously. But, you know, it's just. And what's hard, I think, about this industry in this life is you can be. It's such a positive thing, feeling like you're operating on a really high vibrational frequency where people are, like, gravitating towards you and good things come to you and you are a person where things happen to. That's good. You don't want to be the person that, like, things aren't happening to. But then I. You can get in your head where you're like, that's also works on a negative scale.

[B]

You know, it's. It's. It's such a tough industry to have ocd. And it sounds like it's like magical thinking. OCD is what they call it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where it's like, I've created this, and that's how I. I used. That's how I like it. And that's how. Yeah, it's. It's horrible.

[A]

It's horrible.

[B]

I'm so sorry that you. But it's. It's getting good that people are talking about it now.

[A]

It's good that people are talking about it now. And it's. An OCD isn't just, like, a thing. Like, I think it's great that there will be a generation of people that grow up knowing that it's not just like, oh, I. I didn't lock the front door. I mean, that is an issue, too. But, you know, it's not just that. It's like, whatever, because I had no idea.

[B]

Well, people used to not believe me in high school. I would be like, I have ocd. And they'd be like, but you're. Because I'm such a messy. Like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm a mess. Messy, messy, messy, messy, messy person. And people would be like, you don't have that. OCD is when things are neat and this. And I'm like, I don't think that that's what it is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, it's like this obsessive need to. It's like control. It's all. It's such a control thing. And like, the. It's like the idea that, like, you're in the passenger seat and your OCD is, like, in the front seat driving, and you're, like, telling them where to go, but it's also like telling you yourself. It's like the wildest. I don't even know how to describe it.

[A]

Feeling. Yeah, that it. That's. That's how to describe it. Yeah, it is exactly like that. And other people can't see the difference between, like, the it and you. And you're like, yeah.

[B]

And it's like. It's like, okay, can you. And the OTD is like, can you grab this out of the glove department? Because I'll need that in order for this. To make this turn and have this good thing to happen. That's, like, how it, like. But it's you. It's so hard to make it not real. When your fear comes true.

[A]

That's exactly what it is.

[B]

So.

[A]

And. And when you're. The good things come true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, oh, well, that.

[B]

I knew it. I knew it.

[A]

I told you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then everything bad that happens, you're like, I knew it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's insane.

[B]

That's why I, like, I. If you'll, like. If, like, you'll ever hear me be, like, if someone will, I'll be like, oh, my God, I'm so happy right now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'll never say, like, I'm so happy, period.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I'm scared that if I say I'm so happy, period, then it'll, like, cause my OCD to, like, steer off and something bad will happen.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I'm so scared of concrete things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm so scared of, like, willing other things into existence.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's it. That's it.

[B]

Oh, this is the deepest we've gotten in a while.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, this feels like therapy for me.

[A]

Yeah. Same. But that's good, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love. I think it's so important. But then again, I'm also into anything that, like, anything that's. That it's, like, a good thing that isn't therapy as well. Like, I love, like, I. I've gotten more into recently, like, something like acupuncture, for example.

[B]

Oh, I'm obsessed with acupuncture. Yeah. Obsessed. I dream about it.

[A]

I do, too.

[B]

I love the little needle.

[A]

Many. Two. How many times is too many times for acupuncture?

[B]

I think you do it every day.

[A]

Love it. I love it. Because I also think that that's. That I think that it's kind of in the same vein. You're like, okay, take the wheel.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Like, it's not. It's just do, like. And then I can immediately feel, like, yeah, free.

[B]

That's why I, like, fall for. Not fall for it, but, like, go for so many health trends or whatever.

[A]

Because I'm like, same. Because I'm like, okay, I'm fixing it. Yeah.

[B]

I'M fixing it. Something correct is happening.

[A]

There's actually a shaman in LA that someone gave me the number of before I came out here. And they were like, they will just, like, do everything. And I was like, I'm. I just can't wait. And I. You go. And he's so funny. He's like, clearly, whatever. I text him and I was like, hey, I'm coming to la. Are you free? And he was like, text me when you get here and if I'm around, like, I'll see you.

[B]

I was like, no, it's the most. La. La.

[A]

No appointments.

[B]

No, it's not real. I'm having so much fun with you and all I can think about is, like, going out.

[A]

I know. Okay, so living room is where you would take.

[B]

Living room is. And it's fun. You'd sit. You sit outside, you smoke a cigarette, you have a drink and you. And you're just. It's like, chill. Turn a little bit.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, Rip.

[B]

Is it still burnt down?

[A]

Yeah, it's coming back.

[B]

But the thing is, I feel like when people thought children died, like, everything in London died. I was like, what? They must not be doing London, right?

[A]

Oh, no. 100. Yeah. You have to, like. You have to know where to go. Yeah, you have to, like, know also London is about, like, restaurants, bars, clubs. Like, it's not in the same way as here, where it's like, you go for dinner and then if you're gonna go out, like, there is that one place that everyone goes to and everyone's gonna be.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not. And also, the most fun people in London aren't at Chilton.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? They're like, they're it. When children's a great night, when it's. When industry. Like when it's like an industry week is in terms of, like the BAFTA week or like the Grammys or whatever,

[B]

like, during the BAFTA week.

[A]

It's amazing. Oh, it's the best. Because, like, that's then when it's like, oh. Because then it's like we're in la. You know what I mean? Like, everyone's here and this is where everyone's going. And, like, it's an industry. London becomes an industry town for the first time ever. Whereas 90 of the time, if you're in a pub, like, no one is. No one works in my. Our industry. No one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Everyone does. Like, so, okay, they might, like, watch your show and enjoy it, but at the end of the day, they don't Think that you. What you're doing is any more important than what they're doing or that their wife is doing what it's not. They're like, okay, whatever.

[B]

But that's, like the beauty, I think, of London, like, Europe, culture. It's weird in America. I feel like we, like, put celebrities on pedestals. Like. Like, that is the basis of celebrity culture.

[A]

Yeah. Like, the only thing that I think is different, and I think this is global, is musicians. Like, like, whenever. And in London is this, like, if some. If, if. I mean, have you said that, though? I know Olivia Rodrigo. Like, she's. Because she lives in London and she's like. Comes to a few and, like, people are pretty chill about her, but in a way that I'm like, you're. To me, I'm like, you're Olivia Rodriguez. Yeah, right. Yeah. But even me, I'm like, whenever I see pop stars, I'm like, yeah, I love it.

[B]

It's a rush. It's like, oh, my God, I feel like I'm witnessing magic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you. Who do you listen to? What type of music do you listen to?

[A]

Oh, my God. I really listen to everything. I grew up listening to, like, rock and roll. My mum, like, loves rock and roll, so I grew up listening to, like, old school rock and roll, but now I love pop. Honestly, like, I love pop music. Like, I love listening to hits. Like, I'm. If I'm, like, a bit bored of my own thing that's going on, I will listen to the charts and I'll be like. And I just enjoy. Right that. But, like, at the moment, like, I've been listening to Harry Styles new album. I love that. That's been fun. I love Olivia Dean. Love her.

[B]

She's having a real moment.

[A]

She's having a real moment. Love Ray. Love Ariana Grande.

[B]

Love Ari.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Love. Ari is like, that's our girl.

[A]

Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. But I really do just listen to anything. Yeah.

[B]

I'm kind of the same way. I feel like I. As long as I can find a good melody and, like, good storytelling. Yeah, that's what I'll go for.

[A]

Storytelling is your thing.

[B]

Yeah. I love a good story in a song.

[A]

Okay, so you love, like, Taylor Swift.

[B]

Yeah, I just love the way she tells a story. I just think it's, like, so fascinating. And I love, like, a story that you can't really tell what the truth is and what's not. Like, and when we can't be friends. Like, you don't know if that's about her ex husband 100 or the public 100. And when you. And when you can view the story multiple ways, it feels like I'm in English class.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love, like, a. I really love, like, a ballad for that reason, because I feel like, emotionally, someone's like. Like, one of my favorite Lady Gaga songs of all time is. Oh, my God.

[B]

Are you about to say speechless?

[A]

No, I. I wasn't. One of my favorite.

[B]

Marry the night.

[A]

Why am I blanking? Ben Platter, you and I. Yeah.

[B]

Phenomenal.

[A]

Because I'm like. Because I'm like. I'm in that bar with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can also.

[B]

You can smell it.

[A]

Smell it. You can sense it. Something that I'm like, it. The story in it. It's almost like a monologue in the sense that you're like. You can feel what the character wants from the song, which is, like, to. I mean, I don't know, in that, like, to, like, sing to someone being like, get over here right now. You know? I mean, I love that. Have you heard Ben Platt's cover of that song?

[B]

No, I never have heard it.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Oh, I've heard his cover of Diet Pepsi, which is also.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, you and I. And he, like, does this crazy riff at the end, and I'm like, oh,

[B]

my God, is it online?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, I'm gonna listen to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, speaking of music, the soundtrack to industry is phenomenal.

[A]

So good.

[B]

It is really.

[A]

So I think that the. The needle drop thing of, like, at the end of an episode and, like, boom. And they do some crazy. Beef is doing it at the moment as well. Like.

[B]

Yeah. Phineas is the composer for Beef, so that's why it's. Oh, yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

He's like. He has a real career in, like, composing television shows. Really done a bunch. Yeah, he's really, really good at it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he can view music very cinematically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, as a story. It's. He's very good at it.

[A]

But music is so important.

[B]

Okay, are you ready to tell me what's wrong?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

These are the pussies submit what's wrong with their life, and we tell them how to fix it or try to. How do you get over the fear of going on a bad date? Like, genuinely. I went on a coffee date for the first time in 16 months, and it was genuinely horrible. I. I can't. Sober date. I can't. I'm sorry. I can't. I. I. I have to have a drink in me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or else I'll be too, like, so I got it. We kept talking over each other. His breath smelled ill. We had literally nothing in common. At least he picked me up and paid for me. But I'm not taking this easy. It might be another 16 months for me. I hate dating.

[A]

Also, a bad day is. Is hard to come back from.

[B]

I went on one once, and it was a dinner date, and I remember the guy was, like, so nervous, and I just remember being like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you just have to be like, I'm out.

[A]

It's. The whole thing is also just so, like, pick me. Like, why are we both putting ourselves in a situation where we're, like, just kind of. I don't know. It's. I mean, it is so hard and humbling and, like, such an intense experience. I would say, I would say, like, a good way of getting over, like, dating jitters is to, like, go out with single friends, not friends in a relationship with single friends who, like, also want to meet people so that you, you can maybe meet people a bit IRL before the day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, like, we're talking about, like, meeting on a dating app and then meeting up. Of course. That's, like, the most intense version of the thing. Yeah.

[B]

It's awkward. It's not, like, natural to the human experience. No, it's so awkward. It's just dating sucks. Like, dating is never easy.

[A]

Do you speak on the phone to people you haven't met in person?

[B]

Like, no, but I, I, I've done it before, and it actually is somewhat

[A]

helpful to speak on the.

[B]

To hear their voice.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

To, like. It is somewhat helpful. It's like, the equivalent of, like, meeting at a bar and, like, taking their number and being like, yeah, let's go on a date.

[A]

100. Yeah, I think that that's good, though. Like, speaking on the. If you're just meeting someone cold for the first time, maybe just, like, a little cool, like, awkward.

[B]

It feels like networking. Dating feels like dating and networking, and all of it has become. So that's why, like, going out and like, Manny, who's sitting out there once was like, I read that, like, if you read a book in a public setting, people will come up to you.

[A]

By the way.

[B]

It works. It works.

[A]

It does work. It worked for her because people are like, oh, this person is, like, from an, like, an older time. So they, they don't, like, necessarily need me to, like, DM them. Like, they, this person wouldn't mind, like, an ancient way of speaking, which is me coming up to you. I once Was reading a book at a coffee shop, and someone came up to me and was like, are you enjoying a man? He was like, are you enjoying that book? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, I wrote that book.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

I was like, what? And he gave me his number, and whatever. He left. I googled the author. Not him. Wow. Not him. And I was like. In my mind, I was like, do I respect it, or is it kind of, like, psycho?

[B]

It's a mix of both.

[A]

And I decided it was, like, a bit too psycho for me.

[B]

That is crazy.

[A]

I think it was, like, a bit narcissistic, too, and also not crazy to be, like, at some point, being like, I'm joking.

[B]

It was just an excuse to get your number.

[A]

And then, like, left. And then what would. When was he gonna tell me that it was.

[B]

It wasn't him? Weird. How did you meet your husband?

[A]

We went to drama school together. We were in the same year at school.

[B]

And how did you have. What was your first date?

[A]

Well, this is the thing. Like, obviously, we were friends for a while, so. He hit on me day one, though. He hit on me day one. I had a boyfriend at the time, and when he heard that, he was like, oh, boring. And I was like, ah, okay.

[B]

Your wedding. And then is her Roman Empire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Why? So. I love the hair. Oh, yeah. You know. You know, it was amazing. It did look good. It was the best day of my life. And, like, all the photos. And I saw one interview how you said the thing about the champagne in the beginning. Yeah. It just looked so chic. And. Thank you. It was so fun planning. It was so fun. Didn't go crazy. It really. We both enjoyed the process. Didn't make it about anyone else. It was just about, like, us. Oh, I can't recommend getting married enough. It's so fun. We also felt so, like, obviously, I don't know you, but it felt so you guys. And, like, like you enjoyed. Yeah. It wasn't like. And then what did people do? It was like, what do I want to do? Also, I'm obsessed with. I love a party. Like, I love.

[B]

I love a party.

[A]

I love a party. So I was like, oh, if I'm gonna throw a party, it's gonna be fun. That's all I care. Like, I want the party to be fun. Like, at the end, like, I was like, the very end, before we all went down to, like, dance, I was like. I was like. And then I want everyone to have a tequila shot. So everyone had, like, a little bottle of 1942 to shot, like, at the end of, like, all the speeches, I was like, I just want people to get wasted. When everyone was like, is it. Is, like, is it just wine at dinner? I was like, no. Like, if you wanted to keep, like, drink. But, you know, you've got to be specific about, like, where. Where you're spending the money, whatever. Really. We were smart. Like, it wasn't crazy. And people spend such an inordinate amount on weddings now. Of course, you know, whatever. I was like, the things that didn't matter to me, I was like, whatever. I just want everyone to have the best time ever. And I really think they did.

[B]

Money doesn't buy a good time. It can.

[A]

It. Of course it can. If people know. Yeah, like what. How to have a good time, then there's, like, no ceiling on how much money.

[B]

But, like, you can have a good time anywhere.

[A]

Fireworks. Do you need, like, right. Display, like. Like, whatever. Like, no one remembers that. They remember if they were dancing till 5am, 6am, whatever. Like, my heart was a bridesmaid. Mickey and Komra were there. Harry was there, Kit was there. Everyone came. Connor. It was so fun. And we had sprinter vans. This was, like, something that I was. One of the things I was hell bent on was, like, we were going from one place to another. And one of my least favorite things at weddings is, like, when you've got to travel and there's like a traffic. Traffic jam or something, or like, you're in, it's.

[B]

Oh. And it kills the vibe.

[A]

Yeah. Everyone's on, like, a huge coach. So, like, you've got a. It's just a bit hot. And, like, what? No, I was like, I want sprinter vans. I want people to, like. I want it to feel like the President is coming through. And I want, Like, I wanna. I made playlists for the way there and the way back that I timed on the way out. So, like, on my phone was, like, what do I want people to listen to? Like, as they're coming up the driveway and seeing the house for the first time? What do I want? So what do I want people to listen to when they're going to the party? Like, I want them to.

[B]

You're a good party planner.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I was like, in another life, like, I would. That's what I would do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be like, planning weddings.

[B]

Because I've never heard something described that way.

[A]

It was so.

[B]

That's pretty brilliant.

[A]

I loved it, by the way. I Am. What I Am was my wedding song.

[B]

Was it really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, your first dance.

[A]

Our first dance. And it was choreographed.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

I mean, we choreographed it ourselves because Jamie does musical theater. And I was like, Jamie sang I Am what I am at a Pride cabaret at RADA when we were at school together. And that was the moment. I was like, I love this man.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

It was the fact that someone wanted to sing a song about, like, self expression and freedom and joy and happiness. I was like, yeah, that's my man. Even though it's like a gay anthem.

[B]

I was like, that's so beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, well, congratulations.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

On a beautiful wedding. That is Louise's Roman Empire.

[A]

It's my favorite thing, by the way, when people come up to me on the street and they're like, it's not like, I love Yasmin. I love industry. I love. If they're like, I see your wedding and you're. It's iconic. I'm like, what's your phone number?

[B]

Yeah. The hair is her Roman Empire.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I am a serial Instagram stalker of Exes, friends, randos, etc. Sometimes I zoom out and realize how fucking weird this is. But I'm addicted. Lol. This is probably so bad for my mental health. What do I do? I think delete.

[A]

Delete Instagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Delete Instagram for a bit. Come off. Scrolling is like doom. Scrolling is hellish.

[B]

Watch a TV show. Find something that you. Because, like, you like those, like, obsessive thoughts of another person's life, you can place those thoughts elsewhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can place them into characters of a television show.

[A]

Really good advice, actually.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

It is, because it's like, we. That's what that was created for in the first place.

[B]

Right.

[A]

About film and television as, like, release from the everyday, as, like, fantasy. And, you know, we can put entertainment and we've, like, turned that into, like, just scrolling on people's Instagrams and. And it's so not as interesting or creative or.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What the whole, like, hundreds of years of the movie industry has been sort of made for. Watch Housewives, by the way.

[B]

I know. Yeah, I know. Are you watching Rhode Island?

[A]

I started it because you said.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But do you like or.

[A]

No, I listen. I love it all. But the thing is, is that I have to. You obviously have to invest for a second. It takes you.

[B]

Season one is always hard.

[A]

Season one is always hard.

[B]

It's always hard. I'm slowly drifting away from my family with each passing year. It's hard because I lived abroad for three years now and communicating with them on a Regular basis is so hard. We never expected this because I was only supposed to go for a year in college and now just live here. It's expensive to travel back and forth. So what do we do? Drifting from families. The worst.

[A]

The worst. And it's hard. My. My. My husband lives. Is from. Is American. He live. He's from New York. And when you. When you have. Someone's always going to have to make the choice to be further away from their family. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know either.

[A]

It's like, I mean, obviously travel is expensive. That's a thing. Going back and forth. Like, it takes a commitment. But maybe find somewhere that to meet in the middle sometimes that feels like less. Like, if it's a long trip, feels less like.

[B]

The thing about, like, drifting away from family especially is like, I feel like maybe this person feels like I've drifted so far that it's awkward. I don't want to face the awkwardness of the first 10 minutes of whatever interaction we have next.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's really just like ripping off a band aid. You have to just do it and, like, acknowledge that it's been weird.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Acknowledging it is like God and, like, give yourself grace. I feel like, like, that's the thing I've learned about family and everything is like, my mom was like, once, like, you're only human. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you need to give yourself grace for, like, not like, there's no rule. Family has no rules and blood has no rules. And, like, you need to give yourself grace for, like, maybe being distant and not like, you just, like, more grace is required.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not as, like, linear line.

[A]

People don't necessarily also, your. If your family are, like, hurting that you're a bit further away. That's coming from a place of love, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like, it's just getting back to that place where it's not so awkward. But it's tough.

[B]

It's really tough.

[A]

Tough.

[B]

Family's hard. Well, Marisa, what did we learn today?

[A]

I learned that I feel like we are super similar.

[B]

Yeah. And that we need a night out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Asap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that if you are not watching industry. Sit down and watch industry.

[A]

Watch the show, guys. It's.

[B]

It's at the end of the day.

[A]

At the end of the day, it's, like, objectively good. It's.

[B]

You can't say it's bad. It's a good.

[A]

And it gets better, too. It's not.

[B]

It's wine.

[A]

It's It's a fine wine. As are we on the show. Like, we're getting. We're just getting better with age, babe.

[B]

Well, Marisa, thank you for coming on.

[A]

Therapist. Thank you so much.

[B]

I love you. This was so fun.

[A]

It was really fun. Bye.