Session 130: Lisa Barlow

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Therapuss with Jake Shane
Episode: Session 130: Lisa Barlow
Date: July 2, 2026
Guest: Lisa Barlow (The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City)
Host: Jake Shane ("Therapuss")
Guest co-host: Manny

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal, witty, and candid episode, Jake Shane and co-host Manny welcome the "queen of Salt Lake and New York," Lisa Barlow, for a trademark "therapy session" blending humor, introspection, and vulnerable storytelling. The conversation covers Lisa’s journey on The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City (RHOSLC), her friendships and conflicts on the show, her new single "Baby Gorgeous," finding self-love, navigating criticism and fame, family, faith, and offering heartfelt advice to listeners.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Importance of Being Unapologetically Yourself

• Lisa’s Impact:
  • Jake, Manny, and many fans view Lisa as a Housewife icon, noting her unique candor and self-assurance.
    • "She could have six different housewives looking her dead in the eye saying, 'you are wrong,' and she will look right back at you and say, 'I'm right.'" (Manny, 01:22)
    • Jake notes: "She believes everything she feels and says with such conviction. And that's what's inspiring about her ... This is my truth. This is how I feel. Take it or leave it. I don't care." (01:29)
  • Lisa embraces her “unfiltered” New York upbringing versus Salt Lake’s culture, reinforcing authenticity as her “superpower.”
    • "The bad truth is better than a good lie." (Lisa, 16:14)

2. Music Journey and Vulnerability

• Releasing "Baby Gorgeous":
  • Lisa discusses recording her debut single and conquering nerves by filming her first studio session for RHOSLC season 7.
    • "My first time in the studio ever recording...was on camera. I can't really, like, mess up, you know? It was wild." (Lisa, 03:34)
  • She shares the empowering and emotional process behind the song’s lyrics and its message of self-worth.
    • "I wrote 'baby gorgeous,' you're going to see the process ... I cried throughout it because ... I used to think emotion and crying was weakness. It's a superpower." (Lisa, 52:04)
    • "People should feel good about themselves." (Lisa, 55:32)

3. Behind the Scenes of Housewives: Drama, Friendship, and Growth

• Season 7:
  • Lisa calls it her favorite season ever, feeling “100% free to be me.”
    • "I felt like a total SAG girl, like, living my best life, having the best time ... I got to be free this year, and there's so much drama, but in such a different way, and it's so good." (Lisa, 05:19)
• Friendships and Fallouts:
  • Lisa gives backstories on her relationship with Meredith (a deep, foundational friendship) and recounts the origins of RHOSLC—she helped assemble the cast. (Lisa, 06:36–09:33)
  • The infamous "hot mic" moment and its aftermath: Lisa describes venting when hurt, how it led to a hard-hitting reconciliation, and the importance of direct emotional honesty.
    • "My hot mic moment was not any...there's no truth to it. But, like, my feelings were raw. I was hurt." (Lisa, 16:15)
    • "We had the hardest-hitting conversation ... where we just talk through everything and gave context to our feelings." (Lisa, 14:19)
• Navigating Group Dynamics:
  • Lisa is candid about alliances, backstabbing, and the emotional toll of public judgment:
    • "I am so immune. I mean, the public can be really mean, too. So you just get like, you know, I've always had thick skin, and I have, like, an innate sense of self." (Lisa, 21:31)
    • On shallow relationships: "All my relationships are deep. I don't have shallow relationships ... it's so different for me to be around, like, such shallow relationships." (Lisa, 22:09)

4. Personal Life, Family & Religion

• Blending Faith and Identity:
  • Lisa details her Jewish heritage, conversion to Mormonism, and her non-orthodox approach.
    • "I always say I'm non orthodox, so I've never had ... I just live my life, and I think that's what God wants ... all faiths evolve." (Lisa, 31:07)
• Motherhood and Son’s Mission:
  • Lisa reflects on parenting, her son Jack’s independence, and her pride in his mission.
    • "We did our best raising Jack. Jack has to make his own decisions ... it makes me feel resolved as a mother." (Lisa, 32:42)
• Marriage and Relationship with John:
  • Lisa opens up about meeting John, navigating marital ups and downs, and the importance of honest communication.
    • "We've been together for 25 years ... We've been married and together for a very long time." (Lisa, 42:22, 29:57)
    • On marital vulnerability: "Last season ... I thought when I watched that one scene ... I didn't think twice about it when I watched it. I was like, do you love me? ... It broke my heart. I cried for three weeks." (Lisa, 62:20)
• Importance of Individuality:
  • "One thing that I told John last week in the car that I really need from the show more is individuality. Because I value individuality ... my power is being me." (Lisa, 49:26)

5. Advice Segment: “Tell Me What’s Wrong” (64:41–end)

Lisa dispenses advice to listener write-ins on love, friendship, self-worth, and boundaries, often blending compassion with her signature directness:

• Unrequited Love with a Roommate:
  • "It's not a sign ... you need to get a new roommate because this is painful for you ... It's a blessing in disguise ... you'll find your person." (Lisa, 65:06)
• Dealing with Parental Carelessness:
  • "You're not invisible ... My mom misplaced stuff on the regular ... something good is going to come from this." (Lisa, 68:50)
• Friendships & Insecurity:
  • On fading childhood friendships:
    • "Write him a letter ... It's probably his own insecurities he's projecting." (Lisa, 70:58)
    • "The most special people have very small circles ... You're not the problem. You just haven't found your people yet." (Lisa, 72:08)
• Toxic Friends:
  • "She's not your friend ... someone that's being passive aggressive to you under the guise of humor does not like you. They're jealous of you ... just fly higher." (Lisa, 73:01–74:46)
• Sex and Intimacy:
  • "I think you need to just find your person and get into a rhythm ... Practice doesn't make perfect ... You're not bad at sex, you're just having sex with the wrong people. Save yourself for the right one ..." (Lisa, 75:59–78:13)

6. Cultivating Confidence and Self-Worth

Lisa shares formative experiences and tools for self-love, emphasizing feeling "important to God" and the power of emotion:

• "When I was a little girl ... I had a mom tell me how ugly I was. I felt sorry for her ... and I just put up a wall ... I'm better than this. Not better than people. I'm better than this." (Lisa, 52:30)
• "I give a lot of it to God ... everyone should feel important to God ... And I think when people get so caught in the chaos ... you forget. Like, oh my gosh, I matter." (Lisa, 52:30–55:32)
• "There's beauty in everybody and everything ... when you start to feel that about yourself, [it's] hard [for others' opinions] to change that." (Lisa, 55:45)

7. Fun, Food, and Pop Culture Moments

• Lisa’s Wendy’s obsession and being “the face of Wendy’s,” her favorite order, Coke/Fountain soda rituals, and Wendy’s campaign ads.
• "I'm a connoisseur. Dave's single burger is unbelievable. Their cookies are supreme ... I'm there every single day." (Lisa, 43:43–39:43)
• Sharing music favorites: “Baby Gorgeous,” Ella Langley’s “Be Her,” and tips from vocal lessons.
• "If you blow bubbles in your drink, you can sing better ... I do blow bubbles every single morning." (Lisa, 37:49–38:17)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On being real:
  • "I felt like a total SAG girl, living my best life ... I got to be free this year." (Lisa, 05:19)
• On the infamous "hot mic":
  • "My hot mic moment was not any...there's no truth to it. But, like, my feelings were raw. I was hurt." (Lisa, 16:15)
• On confidence:
  • "I used to think emotion and crying was weakness. It's a superpower." (Lisa, 52:30)
  • "I matter. And everyone should feel important to God." (Lisa, 52:45)
• On navigating drama and friendships:
  • "Some people have to work harder on it, but it's ... allowing your mind to open up ... I matter to me. I know who I am." (Lisa, 58:26)
• On advice for listeners:
  • "If they like you back, you'd be together. You wouldn't have to question it." (Lisa, 66:11)
  • "Some people write me things to me, and I'm like, oh, you have bad energy ... You're not baby gorgeous." (Lisa, 59:00–59:07)
• On haters and staying positive:
  • "You deserve it all." (Lisa, 80:38)
  • "It's a pride [anthem], it's an anthem for self ... it's a mantra that everyone should live by." (Lisa, 80:06)

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Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:12–02:55 – Introduction: Why Lisa Barlow is iconic
• 03:03–05:26 – Lisa on her "Baby Gorgeous" single, vocal lessons, and filming in the studio
• 06:36–09:33 – How Lisa helped bring Housewives to Salt Lake City
• 09:48–11:56 – The Jen Shah arrest—Lisa’s view as it unfolded
• 12:19–16:14 – Hot mic moment: Recounting hurt, fallout, reconciliation with Meredith
• 21:21–23:10 – Developing immunity to criticism and valuing deep friendships
• 29:03–32:43 – Lisa's marriage, family, and religion
• 43:33–44:46 – Lisa’s hilarious Wendy’s obsession and endorsements
• 52:04–55:32 – Self-confidence, handling negativity, and writing "Baby Gorgeous"
• 64:41–74:46 – Advice segment: listener questions on love, friendship, confidence, and authenticity
• 80:01–80:43 – Affirmation, pride, and Lisa’s parting advice

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Tone & Style

The episode is an exuberant blend of warmth, humor, and radical candor—often irreverent but always heartfelt. Lisa’s responses are both vulnerable and empowering, with her classic directness infusing even the advice segment with authenticity. Throughout, Jake and Manny foster a safe, friendly space, balancing deep dives with playful banter.

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Conclusion

This episode showcases Lisa Barlow in all her honest, baby-gorgeous glory: a Housewife who not only knows her worth but champions vulnerability, individuality, and self-love—on camera and off. Listeners are left with both life lessons and laughter, a mix of inspiration and relatability, making this an essential Therapuss session for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Manny]

You're just baby gorgeous. Your energy is magic.

[Lisa Barlow]

Magic.

[Manny]

Well, Manny is back for another intro because we got another housewife on therapist.

[Lisa Barlow]

Lisa Barlow, the queen.

[Manny]

Manny and I have. Lisa Barlow for Manny and I is. Let's talk about. Lisa Barlow is important to God. Lisa Barlow is God for us.

[Therapist Host]

Lisa Barlow is God. I think she is one of the most important people in my life to me.

[Manny]

Me too.

[Therapist Host]

She inspires me. She motivates me.

[Manny]

She really motivates me.

[Therapist Host]

Me too.

[Manny]

And I. You know, some people stray from certain housewives when they do something that they don't like. And all I have to say is, you need to watch episode one of the latest season where Lisa Barlow is not in it because she was doing big and important things.

[Therapist Host]

Yes.

[Manny]

And she was mentioned, like, how many times over 60 times in the episode. Was it because that's how important she is to the show.

[Therapist Host]

Yeah. No. And there. It felt like a big loss that episode. There was something missing.

[Manny]

There is no Salt Lake without Lisa Barlow.

[Therapist Host]

I agree.

[Manny]

I just think what I love about her is that she is so unapologetically herself.

[Therapist Host]

Yes.

[Manny]

She could have so six different housewives looking her dead in the eye saying, you are wrong, and she will look right back at you and say, I'm right.

[Therapist Host]

Nope. She believes everything she feels and says with such conviction. And that's what's inspiring about her, is that she's like, this is me. This is my truth. This is how I feel. Take it or leave it. I don't care.

[Manny]

And she's so funny.

[Therapist Host]

I know.

[Manny]

She's an amazing singer and an amazing.

[Therapist Host]

She's gotten so much better.

[Manny]

She's gotten so much better. We talk about this episode that she's done vocal lessons. We talk about her vocal warm ups. Her debut single, Baby Gorgeous, is out now. Oh, also, I don't know if you guys saw on my Instagram, but I am doing a giveaway with Headcount because voting is one of the most important rights we have in this country. So just click the link in my bio for a chance to win a FaceTime from me, like, a little fun therapist session from me and a PR package from Kochs. Once again, voting is vital and extremely important, and Headcount is an organization that makes sure that we all have access to that. Also in the giveaway package is the Puss Casino cautious merch that we wore in Vegas that I don't think we're ever gonna sell. So you get to take action and have the chance to win fun things and also be reminded that voting is extremely important. Thank you, Headcount, again for working with me and getting the word out of how important it is to vote and making sure everybody can. And tonight on Therapists, we have Lisa Barlow. Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapuss. Tonight we have on the queen of Salt Lake and New York, baby gorgeous Lisa Barlow.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. I love that we're together. I love that we're together. You're, like, made to be together. We're like, kiss met. We're all the things.

[Manny]

I miss you.

[Lisa Barlow]

I miss you, too.

[Manny]

How's life been? How. Tell me everything about this new single.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. Do you love Baby Gore dress?

[Manny]

Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

Gorgeous. Baby Gorgeous. Your energy is magic. Magic.

[Manny]

I mean, you have.

[Lisa Barlow]

I haven't warmed up my voice yet, but I could do better, I promise.

[Manny]

No, you. You sound amazing. What was it like, recorded?

[Lisa Barlow]

You know, it was. Okay, so this is so crazy. You're going to see this on season Season seven. But my first time in the studio ever recording anything musically related to was on camera. So you're gonna watch the whole thing. But it was like, a little like, oh, my gosh, we're doing this, and there's cameras here. I can't really, like, mess up, you know? It was wild.

[Manny]

Was Meredith, like. Was Meredith supportive of your musical journey?

[Lisa Barlow]

Meredith's always supportive, I think. And, like, I'm supportive of her musical stylings by Meredith Marks, too. We have some funny moments this season that you're gonna, like, love. Let me just put this out there. Hypocrisy and bullshit. You're gonna, like, want that in your head all the time through season seven because it becomes a thing.

[Manny]

What was season seven? What was filming?

[Lisa Barlow]

My favorite season I've ever filmed, ever. I actually enjoyed the whole entire thing. I was sad when it ended because I loved it and I loved it. It was, like, my favorite season.

[Manny]

What did you love about it?

[Lisa Barlow]

Our production crew were amazing.

[Manny]

Oh, my God. Well, I'm so happy because last time we spoke after season six, you were like, yeah. You were like, I can't.

[Lisa Barlow]

Maybe I'm done.

[Manny]

No, no.

[Lisa Barlow]

I mean, that's how I felt.

[Therapist Host]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

But after season six, I kind of was like, I have a really nice life, and why do I jack it up once a year? And so, you know, like, there's parts of me that loves it because it, like, makes you, like, see yourself in a different way. You push yourself. You create new boundaries, new guardrails. So, like, that's what I've liked about doing the show. But Then you watch the edits, and you're like, who the fuck is that on tv? You know what I mean? And so this season, I felt like I was, like, 100 free in me. Like, I felt like a total SAG girl, like, living my best life, having the best time.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

And I felt like I got to be free this year, and there's so much drama. There's so much of, like, what people love from Salt Lake, but in such a different way, and it's so good.

[Manny]

What's different about the drama this season than the other seasons?

[Lisa Barlow]

Listen, they're all still crazy.

[Manny]

So, like, who are you on good terms with right now?

[Lisa Barlow]

You know, ebbs and flows. I can. I can mitigate any situation in any dynamic. I think me and Meredith are, like, going to be really solid forever and ever and ever. I mean, it would take, like, so much. I mean, like, chainsaws and, like, crazy stuff to split us up. I love my dynamic with Meredith, but I can kind of, like, move through the group.

[Manny]

How is your relationship with Angie?

[Lisa Barlow]

It's like, the same. So not, you know, like, you'll have to see the journey of it, but it's, like, the same. Yeah.

[Manny]

There's so many things I want to ask you about.

[Lisa Barlow]

Ask.

[Manny]

Can we just, like. Okay, let's take it all the way back to season one.

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay.

[Manny]

When they were casting for the show, who were you closest with?

[Lisa Barlow]

You know, I helped bring the show to Salt Lake, so I had already had a reality show pilot filmed on me, and I, like, love the experience. We had our different restaurant. I think they were like, oh, she's like a young Lisa Vanderpump, and we're gonna do this with her. And because of, like, my relationship with different, like, networks for Sundance, I think people. And I don't just do Sundance. I do, like, so many other things, too. But I think they were like, oh, there's, like, a TV show. We have to film her and do this. So I did the whole pilot. Henry was so little that we were up in Park City filming, and I could hear him upstairs with our nanny crying for me. And I finished the pilot, and. And then I was like, I'm giving it to God. Like, if it works out, it's meant to be. If not, it's not. And the timing for sure, wasn't right. So, like, I always kind of knew something was gonna happen in that realm. And John and I were taking a walk by the golf course behind our house, and I'm like, I'm gonna have a TV show this Year. And he's like, okay, you're gonna have a TV show this year. And I'm like, yeah, I am. And then, literally, the stars align, and three people called me with the same person's number randomly. They didn't know each other. And they're like, you have to talk to Mikaleen.

[Therapist Host]

And.

[Lisa Barlow]

And I'm like, this is so crazy. I keep being told I need to talk to Mikaleen. I was in la. I was actually here for, like, the AFI Awards. And, like, she's like, can you meet me before? And I'm like, sure, but I gotta be ready to go into glam. So I got, like, an hour and a half, and we met, and she's like, we're doing this. And I sent her, like, hundreds of names and, like, just go down the rabbit hole with each one of them. But, like, I help kind of assemble the cast, too, right? Everybody's connected in some way or another through one of my friends or a friend and stuff. So in the beginning, it was Meredith. Like, Meredith, that was your. That was my girl. So she moved to Park City from Chicago. Her gay bestie was best friends with my gay bestie, and now they're married, and they're like, yeah, they got married.

[Manny]

Happy pride.

[Lisa Barlow]

Happy pride. And so we knew they had great taste. When they tried to, like, pair us together, we're like, oh, it's fate. We're meant to be together. So then me and Meredith were like, okay, we're doing this. And then. She does not like to be tied down. Like, Meredith does not, like, one zip code. It's just not. She's a Sagittarius, too. So we like to fly. Like, it's. I. If I didn't have a Cap Moon sign, like, I would be out of Salt Lake, right? Yeah. I'd be like a scalawag. Or. How do you say that? Scalawag? Or, you know, like, that word for people that just, like, go all over the place. Yeah. Like a nomad in high school. Like, history. They're like, there's scalawags. And so, like, she doesn't like to be tied down. So she was, you know, living. I. I think she was back in Chicago, still had a place in Park City. So I'm like, you should do this with me. Let's do this. And it just kind of worked out so it was, like, really good.

[Manny]

I mean, I feel like you guys are my family. Like, we are. I think you are. Like, well, you're my mother.

[Lisa Barlow]

Related.

[Manny]

Yeah, well, you're. You were related, but, like, Birth to you, you dead.

[Lisa Barlow]

But later time in life.

[Manny]

The show really kicked off when Jen was arrested.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, it was wild.

[Manny]

What?

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, wild.

[Manny]

Did you understand how big of a deal it was in that moment when the FBI surrounded the sprinter van?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, I. You forget cameras are around you for. I always forget. Like, since season one. Like, I forget a mic. That's why I had a hot mic moment. Like, but you forget all of that stuff. But I remember sitting in the van and I was like, she got up, her energy was really off. And then when she got that phone call and was like, I have to leave. We're like, okay, what's going on? Like, nobody would have ever in a million years thought, like, Homeland Security, the FBI, NYPD was going to show up. And she had told me this crazy story about this guy that got locked away on, like, I mean, like, Alcatraz type of situation. Like, he was locked away. He was never going to see her again. And he. And I was like, oh, my gosh, he got out of jail and he's coming to kill Jen. Like, that's the first thing that went through my head is like, this guy that she helped lock up is free and her life is in danger. I thought it was to protect her.

[Manny]

Do you. Would you be open to filming with her again, or is everyone like. No, no.

[Lisa Barlow]

I think that Jen has a lot of charisma and she's really funny, and when you get her on a great day, she's like, the most fun person ever. We used to have long chats at night. We're like, every. I got massages, like, every Sunday and Wednesday. So Jen would call me through all my massages, and, like, I'd put her on speakerphone and we'd laugh with her. Like, my massage therapist loves her, and it's like, she's crazy, but she's so funny. So she has this charisma about her, and it's like, really natural, innate. She's fun, but I don't know if it's a good thing for her, any of us.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. But no, I wanted to be happy. I want her to be thriving. I want her to be like, you know, with her children and her husband and her mother and everybody else. Like, I think that's important. And I think she's, you know, if she's really sorry, she did restitution and she's paying for her mistake.

[Manny]

So she's out, right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, she's out. She's a free woman.

[Manny]

Have you seen her since?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, not at all.

[Manny]

Has anyone in Salt Lake seen her?

[Lisa Barlow]

No. I think she talks to Meredith every now and then.

[Manny]

Like, wow.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, I think they'll, like, she'll call Meredith randomly or Meredith will check in with her, but I don't think anyone has, like a deep friendship with her.

[Manny]

Okay, you mentioned the hot mic moment.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

Did you know in that moment you were like, oh, or did you.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh, no. So I left the table because my feelings were so hurt. And I was like, you can see I'm like sitting next to Meredith and I'm like, rolling my eyes. But I didn't, like, you know, in my interview, they asked me, did you make up all that stuff about Meredith or is it true? No, Jen almost beat me up on the van on the way down there. And Jen was saying the craziest things about Meredith. She's like your best friend who does this, this, and this. And then said all the same things at the table while we were eating dinner. And then Meredith and Jen were in a full on fight at dinner. So I didn't, like, come up with these things. I was so upset with Meredith that I was like, you're not my fucking friend. You can't even stand up for me. Like, I'm always alone, but I always defend you. And so. And like, I almost got beat up for it. And I don't think Meredith understood the magnitude. Yeah, for me, I just left that table. I took my mic off. I'm really good at that. I know what to do. So I took my mic off and they said they boomed my door, but I was walking around like a crazy person. So the next day is when I figured out, like, I ranted.

[Manny]

And so that's when you realize, like, oh, yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

And then I was like, what else did I say? And then I didn't think about it. And then I remember feeling really, really hurt by her. Then I went down to the room and like, Meredith and I got into it and I'm like, you're the liar. Like, Because I'm like, I didn't say anything about your dad because that was coming from two other girls.

[Manny]

But I thought she realized. I thought she only heard the hot mic when the episode aired.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, that's the only time any of us heard it.

[Manny]

And what was that? Like, when that came out, were you like, oh, my God, I don't really

[Lisa Barlow]

like, the night, two nights before the reunion, Right. I was sobbing. I couldn't even talk to Meredith. I called her and I said, go watch episode 18, you're gonna hate me. And I just hung up. And she always let me go watch. And I'm like, you're gonna hate me. And then I didn't hear from her.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

How did you guys make up?

[Lisa Barlow]

We had to have two years ago, the hardest hitting conversation. I literally sat in a Walmart parking lot on the phone with her for like an hour and a half. And we just had the hardest hitting conversation. And then there were subsequent hard hitting conversations where we just talk through everything and gave context to our feelings, the situation. You know, when you're in that situation too. Like, her feelings were obviously hurt. I think if it came from anyone else, it wouldn't have bothered her as much. You'd been like, I just, you're. Whatever. As it was me, it was like, worse. But if you listen to the way things were being said, like, it makes sense. Like, you know, her and Jen were going at it at the dinner table. And if you really hear what Jen's was saying in the van at the dinner table at my Vita Tequila food court party, it's all the stuff I said in my hot mic moment. It's just I kept hearing it and shutting it down, hearing it and shutting it down. And then I just was so hurt. I was like, maybe this is true and blah, blah, blah, blah, and, you know, just, you know, lost my mind.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

I remember it.

[Manny]

So, I mean, it made for great television. And I'm happy that you and Meredith are now.

[Lisa Barlow]

I'm human. Oh, yeah. And I'm human. I. We all like that about John Barlo on the Daily. Like, I'll be walking to my room

[Manny]

like, oh, you're also from New York. People forget.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, yeah. We verbalize all of our emotions and feelings. Like, when I moved to Utah to go to school, my mom's like, you have to leave here immediately. No one thinks you're pretty. They all think you're ugly. Because nobody did what they do in New York, where you walk down the streets and they're like, hey, girl.

[Therapist Host]

Hey.

[Lisa Barlow]

My mom's like, no one even cares about you here. You need to leave immediately. And like, I think when you come from a culture where it is, it's my DNA. Like all of New England, the east coast is very different than the west coast where people just say exactly what they mean. You get over it. You move on. Like I always say, the bad truth is better than a good lie.

[Manny]

And, oh, I love that.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, my hot mic moment was not any. There's no truth to it. But, like, my feelings were raw. I was hurt. And I think, you know, that's just the way I grew up. You say things, you move on. You say things, you move on. And I think it's way better to just, like, get it out than to like, sit with it and then just give people bad vibes.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Right? Nobody wants.

[Lisa Barlow]

You can feel that.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

No bad energy.

[Manny]

How is Brittany been this season?

[Lisa Barlow]

She's like butterflies and ladybugs. Yeah, I love. I mean, she's chasing rainbows in her head. Like, she's somewhere over the rainbow.

[Manny]

So she's not here?

[Lisa Barlow]

She's here. She's here. I want to say physically, mentally, she's in a different place, you know? And I think that, like, people are gonna have to tune in to watch what happens with Brittany, but, like, she's, you know, part of me. Like, I was, like, rooting for Britney. And I think last year with the whole plane incident with them making up this ridiculous story about what happened on the plane, it really made me see people very differently because I could never just bold face lie about somebody.

[Manny]

What happened on the plane?

[Lisa Barlow]

Nothing. Meredith vented to me. Meredith sat by me the entire flight. So Heather was across the aisle. We had Whitney, Mary here, Brittany in front of us. And then.

[Manny]

Wait, so wait, Paint it. Paint it for me.

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay, so here's me and Meredith on the looking coming down the aisle. If I were like, you know, the flight host, right. I would be to the left. Heather was across the aisle from me. But if you're looking forward, like, out of the plane, it's like, me and Meredith, Heather here, Whitney, Mary, Brittany, stranger. Angie up front, production right behind me.

[Manny]

And so what happened?

[Lisa Barlow]

Meredith was really upset because Brittany on below deck came into our cabin and kept being like, gassing Meredith up and being like, meredith did look hot in her bikini. So she's like, you look so hot in your bikini. Oh, my God, I'm in love. Like, you just look so good. I just love you so much. So Meredith is like, just stop messing with me. She's like, basically like, stop fucking with me, and we're fine. And then when Britney came out at dinner saying, like, oh, your husband was in an Uber and I think he's cheating on you, but I'm just trying to be a good girl's girl. Meredith was like, we're done.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

So I was in a villa with Meredith before we flew out. And she woke me up early the next morning. She's like, we've got to fly out. We got to get ready to go. And she's like, I'm still very upset about last Night. And I'm like, I get it. I understand how you feel that way. And then we had to take this crazy, like, 1960s prop plane to another island to catch, like, a real flight to New York. And on the flight, because, you know, it's a faraway island. It's not like an easy to get to if you have a super yacht. If you're Jeff Bezos, it's perfect, right? Or Michael Jordan. It's a great island to go to. But, like, for us, it was a little rough to get to. And so she just vented to me the whole time. She's like. She's like, I got set up. I'm so upset. She was emotional.

[Manny]

She was crying on the plane.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, she was just talking to me. Brittany had headphones on, and Gina behind us couldn't hear. So I got up during one part of the flight and said, hey, Gina, Meredith's really upset. I think you should call our showrunner and let her know. Merit is super upset. Like, I feel horrible for her, and I think somebody needs to talk to her when we get back to Salt Lake. And she's like, okay. And I'm like, can you hear her? And she's like, not at all. So not even a little bit. But the only person mayor to talk to is me.

[Manny]

What about the shaking of the seat and the wine?

[Lisa Barlow]

Didn't happen.

[Manny]

Didn't happen?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, not. Not while I was awake, right? Not at all. Okay. Not that I saw. Not that I experienced. I don't see Meredith doing that.

[Manny]

Could you see it possibly happening while you were asleep?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, I just don't. Marry's not that type.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

Meredith is just. Just even really. It takes a lot to get her to yell. So, like, the. You know, she said some mean things about Britney to me. You know, just some other stuff she felt. Yeah.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Therapist Host]

Went on.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

And so. But, like, it was to me. And it's not like she was screaming at, like, you'd have to try to listen to hear it.

[Manny]

Got it, Got it. Okay. And so the plane was. Well, the plane was like the crux of that season at first.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, yeah. And so, like, the fact that they all were like, okay, now we're gonna use this as a chance to, like, fake rally around Britney. Use this as an excuse to, like, treat me and Meredith badly. That was the problem last year. And that's, like, it made me just totally shift my energy how I felt about how they handle situations, how they treat me. Because, I mean, like, I was getting it pretty bad the first half of the season they were trying to convince. Convince Meredith that I'm this horrible human being and this bad friend and she shouldn't be friends with me. And it's just like the, you know, like, incite divide kind of tactics, and so it just kind of got old. And so this season, I went into it with, like, okay, we have zero now, right?

[Manny]

Like, do you feel like you are. You've become immune to criticism from outside world because you're like, oh, beyond.

[Lisa Barlow]

Beyond immune.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. And when other people get upset when they're in a situation where they have to just, like, answer simple questions, I'm like, you have no idea what I've gone through. Like, this is nothing. But I am so immune. I mean, the public can be really mean, too. So you just get like, you know, like, I've always had thick skin, and I have, like, an innate sense of self. So, you know, last season, some things got to me for the first time ever. Like, I didn't love it. I had a hard time.

[Manny]

How did you bring yourself back to being like, I can do this. This is my job. This is who I am. I'm here for a reason.

[Lisa Barlow]

I woke up and I was like, I'm just baby gorgeous.

[Manny]

You are just baby gorgeous.

[Lisa Barlow]

Magic. But no, it kind of helped me to, like, remember. Like, it's so cliche, but just, like, remember who I am. Like, you know, and then I get in the van and I tell the girls. I'm like, nobody is, like, really real here. Like, I was like, I don't really know that much about you guys. Like, I like depth and dimension in my relationships. Like, I want more. I give more. I'll give as much as you guys want me to give. As long as, like, you're, like, hearing it, you're receiving it, and, like, we're all in this together. But, like, I. All my relationships are deep. I don't have shallow relationships. I'm friends with all my friends from kindergarten. I'm friends. Best friends with all my friends from college. Like, when baby gorgeous came out, like, my kindergarten friends were messaging me. My 6th grade bestie was messaging me, like, all my mom's friends, you know, and so I'm like, I'm used to that. It's, like, so different for me to be around, like, such shallow relationship. So I wanted more. And I feel like I'm getting. I feel like I'm getting more of that.

[Manny]

How was your relationship with Heather? Because at the beginning of season six,

[Lisa Barlow]

it was great, complicated.

[Manny]

And then at the end of season six, it Was not so great.

[Lisa Barlow]

She complicated it. I, like, was all in. And she has. You'll see. Coming up soon on Ultimate Girls Trip and on Housewives. Like. Like, I'm a very forgiving person. And when I forgive, I move on. And I don't go backwards.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

She made it hard for me to want to do that.

[Manny]

Why?

[Lisa Barlow]

You'll see. Very soon.

[Manny]

Oh, I'm so excited. Who's on it? It's you, Heather.

[Lisa Barlow]

No, me, Kyle Richards, Giselle, Portia, Theresa, Vicky. I'm missing somebody. Luann.

[Manny]

Did Alicia not do it from Rhode Island?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, but you know what? We. You're gonna see, like, we get to meet all the Rhode island girls along the way.

[Manny]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's what I'm thinking of. Because you just spoke to Alicia.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, she's really cool. They came out of the gate, like, when I met them for the first time, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is gonna be epic to watch them because they have no filters.

[Manny]

Have you. Have you been watching parts of it?

[Lisa Barlow]

I wish I could watch more of my schedule, spend nuts, but I see a lot on social media. You know, I think, like, just with how crazy my schedule's been, to sit down and watch a full episode has been hard. But they're amazing.

[Manny]

They're amazing. Oh, yeah, they're really good.

[Lisa Barlow]

I think they're so great. I think it reminds me of home. Like, it's how I'm used to, like, interacting with people. You say what you mean, you get over it. There's so much history. It cuts a little deeper. But then forgiveness is bigger because you've had such deep roots with these people. You've known them your whole life.

[Therapist Host]

And.

[Lisa Barlow]

And I think that, that, like, the show creates one bond, but when you have, like, long term relationships with people and you start doing something like this, you have a different kind of bond that doesn't ever go away. It probably. There's times where they'll probably think they're, like, never gonna make up, but they all will.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

You can tell.

[Manny]

Was there a moment for you where you're like, I am never making up with this person ever. Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. Every season.

[Manny]

And then somehow you do.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, but I don't like to sit in negativity either. I just think it's so harmful for our bodies. But I do have guardrails. I do have, like, you know, walls that I've put up with certain people where, like, I can be fine with them, but we'll never be friends, right? Not like the way we used to be.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, there's. There's a couple of them that I'm like, you will never know me. You'll know surface me. You'll never know me, Whitney. You know, there was a time when I think Whitney was going through some really hard stuff, and I'm glad that, like, we could have a good friendship there. But, I mean, I just. I just require different things than I did five, six, seven years ago.

[Manny]

Thank you, seatgeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. You guys, it's the world Cup. It's the world cup, and the world cup is taking place in America. And the best place to get tickets for the world cup is on seatgeek. My friend just went to England versus Panama and said he had the best time of his life, and it made me want to go to a world cup game so badly. Brett went to one the other week, like Julia went to one. Everyone is going to the world Cup. It looks so much fun. What I learned from basketball is that sports games are so fun. And the best place to get tickets for these sports games are on seatgeek. You can also use my code therapist for 10% off your order. If you click the link in the description and download the app, it automatically applies the code so you can have 10% off your order. Seatgeek is the best place to get tickets for any event, whether it be sporting, whether it be music. Gracie Abrams is going on tour. Ariana Grande is on tour. Ryan Beatty just announced his tour. There are so many incredible people on tour. The reason seatgeek is the best is because it rates tickets on a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being not the best, 10 being the best. So you can see if you are getting a good deal. The world cup is like a once in a lifetime opportunity, and if you were to get tickets for it, you should absolutely go to seatgeek to get them because it will make the process so much easier. Once again, you can use code therapist for 10 off your order. Thank you again, seatgeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. Poppy, Poppy, Poppy. Poppy. Poppy poo. Poppy is the best soda for you. Poppy is my favorite soda in the entire world. I always say this, but if you watch my early, early, early content, like 2023, I was singing, making jingles for Poppy, hoping they would notice me. And now they are sponsoring this season of therapist. One of my favorite favorite flavors is strawberry lemon. It is. Oh, my God. God, I'm going to drink it right now. I'm honestly so thirsty. Oh, it is five grams of sugar. It's a better for you soda. Oh, my God. It's just. It's so good. Sorry, I'm going to have some more. It's summer. You need a refreshing better for you soda this summer. And that is poppy. I just, I remember the days I always talk about this when I used to have to literally search for far and wide for poppy. And now they are in every bodega, every store. It is so incredible. And they are always having new exciting flavors come out. Strawberry lemon is a classic, so it is a very good entry point into poppy. My personal favorites are strawberry, lemon, cherry, limeade. Cherry limeade's my all time favorite, so I just Poppy. And it's a better for you soda with only 5 grams of sugar. Poppy sodas back, but so much better. Thank you, Poppy, for sponsoring this episode.

[Lisa Barlow]

I support all their businesses.

[Manny]

And so Meredith's caviar.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, I love her caviar.

[Manny]

And then what?

[Lisa Barlow]

I love her caviar. And Meredith makes beautiful jewelry, right?

[Manny]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

I have.

[Manny]

Oh, you have a great stack going.

[Lisa Barlow]

I always have something. Meredith. Mark's on. One of these is hers. And I thought this was hers. No, it's not. All the way up my arm.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

I love a stack.

[Manny]

How's John Barlow?

[Lisa Barlow]

John Barlow is amazing.

[Manny]

Is he? You know, he's my favorite house husband.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. And you're his favorite ever, ever, ever.

[Manny]

I die for him.

[Lisa Barlow]

He loves you too.

[Manny]

I love him.

[Lisa Barlow]

He's doing amazing. I think, you know, John never really gives a lot on the show because he's always been like, this is your thing. And he'll be there to, like, he brings, like, humor to the show and he's really witty and dry humor. But this season, I think, like, he opens up a lot more.

[Manny]

He gave a lot last season, too.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. And I think you'll see, like, a continuation of that and, like, where he was coming from in, like, a way that was shocking to me.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, literally, like, it's all over my face.

[Manny]

You're like, yeah, we'll talk later.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Like, I was like, oh, my gosh, we need to talk later.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, I. I'm going to take a week off, right?

[Manny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, I'm taking a week off, maybe a month, and we're gonna have a conversation.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

But it was, like, really good for both of us. I think. We've been married and together for a very long time and. Has he.

[Manny]

So you grew up Jewish?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, I'm Jewish by heritage, kind of. My dad was agnostic and my mom was just always searching for faith. Like, I think that was a big thing. So when the Mormon missionaries knocked on her door, she's literally was like, I've been praying for you. We're all like, two cute boys in suits. What? Like, wild. And it took my dad a long time to convert. Like, he was not, like, it wasn't his thing. I don't think it was something he, he didn't miss it. He never had it. He didn't. You know, his mom died when he was seven and a half. And I think that, you know, he kind of, like, found a way to, like, you know, my grandfather is amazing, and he, my dad had amazing family members that stepped in when his mom died, but he didn't have, like, somebody that was like, we love God and like, let's focus on faith and, like, structured religion. And my mom didn't really either, but, like, wanted it.

[Manny]

And so that's when you converted to Mormonism.

[Lisa Barlow]

That's when we converted to Mormonism.

[Manny]

And then how do you juxtapose being Mormon and also doing things that are inherently not Mormon?

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay, like, non orthodox.

[Manny]

Like, you know, like, you have Marks.

[Lisa Barlow]

Seth Marks is the one that came up with Mormon 2.0.

[Manny]

Uhhuh.

[Lisa Barlow]

And, but I always say I'm non orthodox, so I've never had, like, I just live my life, and I think that's what God wants, like, from a religious standpoint, Like, I love God. I give everything to God. Like, I, I, I have prayers answered every single day. I, like, believe I'm like, a true believer in God. And I think that for me, I just don't think God judges me. I think, you know, church is an open door. Everyone's welcome. I've never put, I didn't grow up in Utah either, but I've never put religious pressure on myself. It's more like my, I put pressure on myself to be, to show up in a good way. I like God. Like, I just want to be myself. And I think all faiths evolve. Like, the Mormon Church, you know, it's like the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Mormons is a nickname, but the name of the church is like, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Mormons love Jews, by the way. Mormons, I think, are very Jewish, with the exception of, like, accepting Christ as, like, the savior instead of a rebel rabbi. So, like, that's, I mean, that's a big deal. Very big deal. But, but, but Mormons, like, are, like, love Jews. So I think for me, I'm like, I'M double blessed.

[Manny]

Yeah, you are double blessed.

[Lisa Barlow]

I'm double blessed. But I think, you know, it's not hard for me. I just want to be myself. And even with Jack going on a mission, we did our best raising Jack. Jack has to make his own decisions. The mission, the. We never talked to him about it. That was 100% his decision. He kept it so private, and we just had, like, a really, like, great mom son talk three days ago where he's like, mom, you were done raising me a long time ago. I make decisions based on my beliefs, not yours. I make decisions based on who I am, not based on who you are. And I was like, I love this so much. Like, you don't even understand. I love hearing this from you. It makes me feel resolved as a mother. Like, that. You, like, feel so confident in your ability to make decisions for yourself, and you're like, you know, like, how you're choosing to live your life like that makes me so happy, you know?

[Manny]

How. How's his life post mission?

[Lisa Barlow]

Amazing. Oh, you're gonna be seeing a lot of Jack soon.

[Manny]

I'm so excited.

[Lisa Barlow]

His own project without me and John, and it's so good. And he's happy. He's bilingual, like, fluently. Completely fluent. He works really, really hard. He works. He moonlights at our lounge. Works his brand Fresh wolf. He's shredded. He's so cute.

[Manny]

How is the lounge?

[Lisa Barlow]

The. The lounge is amazing. We need to do your birthday party there.

[Manny]

I know. That's what I'm saying. I want to fly everyone out to Utah, and I want to do my birthday party at the beach.

[Lisa Barlow]

We're making this happen, and it'll be

[Manny]

the best night of my life.

[Lisa Barlow]

The. The best night of our life. I don't know if you can top Europe. Your Europe trip looked pretty amazing.

[Manny]

It was amazing.

[Lisa Barlow]

It looks amazing. So much fomo. I want to speak. Running down the streets of Monaco with you.

[Manny]

We were running down the streets clubs every night.

[Lisa Barlow]

No, I felt it with you. You were at. What's it called? Oh, my gosh. What club did you go to?

[Manny]

We went to Lily's and then we went to some other first name club, like Poppies or something.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes, I know. And it's like the best one. I know exactly where it is. I saw you guys running through the streets, and I literally was like, I need to be there.

[Manny]

Oh, it would have been perfect with you there.

[Lisa Barlow]

Fun. Oh, my gosh, it looks so fun.

[Manny]

I'm going to Paris for the first time this Sunday. I've never been To Paris.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, you're gonna thrive in Paris. I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh. You're gonna thrive. What are you doing in Paris?

[Manny]

I'm going to the Dior show.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Manny]

Thank you.

[Lisa Barlow]

You're amazing.

[Manny]

You're amazing.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh.

[Manny]

You know, you're my favorite housewife of all time.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You know what's funny is, like, that's such a nice, sweet thing to say, and I love you so much for that. I forgot I'm even on Housewives a lot of times.

[Manny]

Wait, what do you mean?

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, is that crazy?

[Manny]

Oh, cuz you're just like, I'm her.

[Therapist Host]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, you know. Oh, my gosh. Speaking of her, do you. Have you heard that country song, Be Her?

[Manny]

Oh, yeah. By Ella Langley?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes. Are you.

[Manny]

Can you sing it for me?

[Lisa Barlow]

She drinks wine by the glass. I gotta take a. I gotta take a sip real quick.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

I love this song. We should turn it on and sing it, huh? Not by the bottle. I just got nervous, and I never get nervous.

[Manny]

I'll turn around.

[Lisa Barlow]

But she drinks wine by the glass knob by the bottle. She ain't stuck in the past Ain't worried about tomorrow. You know who she's singing that about? I'm convinced it's herself.

[Manny]

What? Oh, what do you mean?

[Lisa Barlow]

I think that song is about her. When she's like, I just want to be her so bad. It hurts so bad to me. When Ella sings that song, it's really about herself.

[Manny]

And she's like, oh, yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

It's like, who she really is.

[Manny]

Oh, I love that. So introspective.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. I feel like when I listen to it, it reminds me of my mother, too. Like, I called my mom, and I'm like, this song is about you. When I hear the song, I think of you. Because she's so authentically herself. And, like, if she were on the show, people would be obsessed with her. She's so cool.

[Manny]

Your mom?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. She'll never do it. She wouldn't even let me stand next to her in public. But wait, why won't she do the show?

[Therapist Host]

She.

[Lisa Barlow]

She just loves her privacy. Okay, but she. 100% her. But when I heard Ella Langley singing that, I was like, she's singing this about herself.

[Manny]

How? In what?

[Lisa Barlow]

It's like, the way she sees herself to me.

[Manny]

Right, Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, when she sings that, I'm like, I feel it so strongly. I want to ask her someday, but, like, I'm like, she has to be singing that about herself the way she really Sees herself.

[Manny]

What else are you listening to right now besides Baby Gorgeous?

[Lisa Barlow]

You know what's so funny? We went to the AMAs and I was like, my nieces love Cat's Eye and they are so hot and their outfits are the cutest thing ever. But like, I kind of like. I'm like. I never thought I would be into Cat's Eye. I like, love them. I like, love country right now.

[Manny]

Love country.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. I like, love country music right now. And like, I love the way Ella Langley's doing it too, because it's like a cross popovery kind of thing. But that song, I scream, sing in the car. And I like, love it so much.

[Manny]

My favorite is choosing Texas.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, yes, she's from Texas. I can tell by the way she's

[Manny]

stepping down the room.

[Lisa Barlow]

That's like such a good one too. But all of her songs are so good. I haven't warmed up my voice where I would full on sing for you. I've been in vocal lessons for two years.

[Manny]

What?

[Lisa Barlow]

Two years? Yes, yes. And I do this whole warm up thing. You know, if you blow bubbles and your drink, you can sing better if you just warm up like this. Like sing your favorite song with bubbles in your glass.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

It'll open up your throat so much. I'm not kidding you. And then you'll be able to. When you start singing, you're gonna sound so good. It like stretches the muscles in the back of your throat. It's so good.

[Manny]

She's from. Oh, wow. It's clearer.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

If you do that for like three, sing the song three times through and blow bubbles. It's like amazing. I do. I do blob bubbles every single morning. Not this morning because I couldn't get coke on fountain. Wait, I got it from a glass bottle at the hotel.

[Manny]

And that. You don't you hate that?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, I hated that. Yeah.

[Manny]

You need it from a fountain.

[Lisa Barlow]

I need it from 711 or similar. Yeah. Are you Wendy's Die Hard Diet Coke?

[Manny]

Oh, Wendy sounds so good.

[Lisa Barlow]

It does.

[Manny]

What's your Wendy's order for those that don't know?

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I love the nuggets. They can sound. Best nuggets ever. If you get your nuggets anywhere else, it's sad because then you're just getting grease balls with a little chicken inside and that's gross. There's a difference. I've like, eaten everywhere. I'm a connoisseur. Dave's single burger is unbelievable. They have all the accoutrements. On that. On that burger. Like, it's, like, the perfect mayo, lettuce, onion, everything blend. That's, like, next level. So, like, the burger's so good. The tendies are amazing. Their cookies are supreme.

[Manny]

How are you not the face of Wendy's?

[Lisa Barlow]

I am.

[Manny]

You're the face of Wendy's right now?

[Lisa Barlow]

Kind of. Yeah. I. Five years. I have, like, commercials with them four times a year.

[Manny]

Oh, that's amazing. And you have your Wendy's cash.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes. I, like, love Wendy's. It's, like, my favorite place to go every single day I'm there. Like, they know me by name, right? I don't even have to. Like, I drive through, they know my order already. They hear our voice, they see our car roll up, and they just know.

[Manny]

Does John love Wendy's as much as you love Wendy?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. John's there, too.

[Manny]

How did you and John meet?

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay, so John went on a Mormon mission, and he. His dad went on one to. John's adopted. He has, like, a crazy, like, adoption story. And he was adopted by a great family. His dad went on a mission to Paris. Where you're going?

[Manny]

Yes, yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

And missions were really long back then. Now they're like two years. I think it was, like, three years back then, or two and a half. His dad's, like, 80, and John thought he was going to go to Paris. And so my sister, you know, we're in New York. We have no idea who this John Barlow guy is. Obviously never met. And so she's dreaming of going to Paris on her mission. And you don't get to pick where you go. So she gets called to Vegas. And I think she wanted to be like, I'm not going. And John got the same call. He got called because he was. He grew up all over, like, Germany, Florida, Texas, California, Chicago. Because his dad was an exec with IBM. So then when he got called to Vegas, he's like, are you kidding me? Like, I think he was like, all my friends are going somewhere cool. I'm going to Vegas. So they met on their mission, and she. We would hear about John Barlo nonstop to the point where I was like, I hate John Barlow, and I haven't even met him.

[Manny]

Wait, why? Just, like, hearing, like, this cute guy,

[Lisa Barlow]

John Barlow, so cute, and he's, like, perfect, and he's amazing, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I was at byu. She came out, she finished her mission was at byu. John was off his mission at byu, and one night, she's like, let's go over to John Barlow's house. I'm like, I hate John Barlow. Like, I don't want to go. And she's like, he has a cute friend. You should come. So I bought ice cream, brought it over. The friend annoyed me so bad, I literally got my ice cream out of the freezer and walked home because I was like, I can't stand being around this guy. And. And she was, like, crushing on John, but he didn't like her. So he went on, like, one day, and, like, I think they kissed once. Like, nothing, like, serious. And he was like, not. We're not meant to be together. He actually got married to somebody else. And I remember, like, he sent an. Like, an announcement to, like, our house. And I remember opening it and thinking, I could have married him and just throwing the announcement, like, on the bed. And, like, you know, seven years later, I run into John in Utah, and my sister's like, you guys, we should all go to a baseball game. And I'm like, I'm not. I didn't want to go because I didn't like him, because he didn't like my sister. Some weird, I don't know, loyalty thing, you know? With your family.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

So we end up going to a baseball game, and we started hanging out. We were just, like, platonic best friends. And one day I'm like, I love you. And he's like, I love you, too. And now we've been together for 25 years. Wow. Yeah. It's been a long time.

[Manny]

So what was BYU like?

[Lisa Barlow]

Amazing. When I was there, it was, like, the best school on Earth. Like, the best school on Earth.

[Manny]

Could you break the rules and drink?

[Lisa Barlow]

Everybody broke the rules. Okay.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, like, everybody broke the rules. Like, all. Like, I lived off campus. I lived in, like, the most killer townhouse and then moved into the sickest condo. We went to Vegas every weekend. Some girl had a hookup down there. So we drive this guy Jordan's, like, sick cars down on Friday night. Come back Sunday night before school and, like, spend, like, the weekend laying out by the pool. Like, I don't even know what my friends were doing. I still don't want to know what they were doing. We'd go to other frat parties for other colleges.

[Manny]

And, like, would anyone else try to, like, get you guys in trouble with the school?

[Lisa Barlow]

No. Never.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

I mean, I. I didn't hang out with any of the Utah kids. Like, all of my friends were from, like, Boston, Connecticut, New York, Louisiana. Like, San Francisco, Texas. Like, none of my friends were born and raised in Utah. I It was, like, such a separation between, like, the born and raised kids and then the, like, kids from out of town.

[Manny]

Lisa, what are you therapist about today?

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh. So many things.

[Manny]

Tell me everything.

[Lisa Barlow]

I hate showers that don't have really good wands.

[Manny]

Like, water pressure?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, like, you know, the wand to, like. Like, if you stay. Like, the first thing I do when I check into a hotel is I check to make sure the shower has, like, really good wand system and, like, jets.

[Manny]

Do you like a. What do you mean? A jack.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, you know how they have the sprayers, like, for your body, like, on the side? Yeah, on the side. Yeah. And like, a wand. So, like.

[Manny]

Oh, yeah. I. I'm not a wand person. I care about water pressure. My water pressure in my shower is atrocious.

[Lisa Barlow]

Is it bad?

[Manny]

So bad.

[Lisa Barlow]

Wait, what?

[Manny]

Like, it's like, I don't know. I need help. Like, I don't know what to do.

[Lisa Barlow]

I think we can get you help today. Somebody like Jacob shower head with, like, sprinkling down. I like to call a plumber.

[Manny]

Okay. The plumber.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, you have to call a plumber, like, immediately. You need a new shower head, and they need to, like, check your hot water heaters.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

You. You need multiple.

[Manny]

Okay. So you're, like, with showers as Meredith is to baths.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, yeah. I'm neurotic about my showers. Like, if they don't have a wand, I, like, want to check out immediately. I don't, like, you know, like, some Ritz Carlton don't even have a wand. And you're like, who's not updating your bathrooms?

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, that kind of stuff makes me really mad.

[Manny]

I 100% get that.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

This episode of Therapist is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah. The other day, I was on my phone, and I was talking to my best friend Alice, and we were looking at old photos of when we were in Santa Barbara together. And it made me really, really, really want to go back. So Alice and I are now planning a trip to go back to Santa Barbara. We with booking.com we both have very, very, very specific needs. We like to make sure that we're able to walk because I can't drive, so it's always nice to be able to walk into town. We. I like to. I need air conditioning. We both need air conditioning. A lot of it. And so these are things that we are able to put into booking.com to help us find the best place to stay. We can also rent a car on booking.com we can make the Trip full rounded.

[Therapist Host]

And.

[Manny]

And Alice and I need all the help we can get. Every trip Alison I take, we always use booking.com because it makes it the easiest possible way to book the trip. It helps us really get from the idea to the actual destination, which is sometimes difficult. So we are going to go on booking.com and find the perfect place to stay at in Santa Barbara because we are not just letting this be an idea. Go on. Book that trip. It's easy at booking.combooking. yeah. Book today on the site or in the app.

[Lisa Barlow]

You know, I went into the season and I'm like, this is what I did for myself that I think made me feel so good. I. I was so enabled. They just let us do what we needed to do.

[Manny]

Uh huh.

[Lisa Barlow]

To like tell our story. And that for me was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. I'm so excited to see this season. I loved it. And you know, people may hate me and I don't care. I just was like, I. I've never cared but like now I really genuinely don't. And I just feel like, you know, you know, I got accused of doing so many things I've never done. I wouldn't even think to do. Like, my brain doesn't even work that way. And then to like have the freedom to just be me. Be her. You know, Ella Langley said it best. Just be her. Felt so good.

[Manny]

Take me back to that boat trip when everyone was accusing you of shit and you went out on the deck and called John. And now one of the most famous scenes in Salt Lake history.

[Lisa Barlow]

I was so hurt.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like I. Those were such genuine feelings and cries of hurt. And I talked about it at the reunion. It didn't make it into the show. I mean there's so much, only so much time. But we, you know, to get to a destination like Kenwin, we were there early. So you stay on the island for two days before you got on the boat. So Heather was having a hard time. We took Heather to the tiki bar. I got a golf cart, picked her up, snuck her out of her room. We were like doing karaoke and having the time of our life before we got on the boat. So I was shocked when she's like, you're the source. I'm like, I'm the source. You're the one that has all the issues, not me. I have issues, but I don't care about, I don't care enough about them to raise them. Like you're the one that cares more. You're the one that was crying. You're the one we took out of your bedroom. And like, so how am I the source? And when Bronwyn actually got on the boat, she accused Whitney of being the one that leaked the stuff about her. She's like, I was told by some blogger, it's like a well known blogger, that it's Whitney. And so I was defending Whitney and then Whitney turned it on me and then Heather turned it on me that night. And that trip was awful for me. Like, I was like, literally by myself. Like, I felt so isolated.

[Manny]

How do you deal with the fact that Meredith doesn't defend you in that situation?

[Lisa Barlow]

Meredith, I understand her. So she, it's not like we grew up so differently that, like, I, I do what I need to do and Meredith can do what she needs to do. I'm like, I said it at the reunion. I'm like, I can, I can go solo, like, right. I can.

[Manny]

Lisa Barlow. Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

I can take, I can speak for myself. I can take care of myself. I'm fine. And you know, sometimes my feeling, you know, there have been times when my feeling gets hurt and I talk through them, but I think for me, I've, I have just learned to do this in a way that feels so comfortable for me now. And like, so, like, like I'm at peace with so much that, you know, I can interact the way I want to interact and get what I need from it.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Does that make sense?

[Manny]

That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Lisa Barlow]

But you can't, I can't put expectations on people where, like, it's like, when people are like, you get so defensive and I'm like, well, I'm defensive because I'm mad and because that's offensive, you know, and so for me, I've just like, you know, just figured things out and stuff. But I can't. Meredith is going to always be Meredith and I'm always going to be me. And I think, and I think I, like, you know, one thing that I told John last week in the car that I really need from the show more is individuality. Because I, I value individuality. Like, I think it's so fun to have our fans that are individuals that align with us and feel us and like, you know, like, you and I have like a natural, like, connection and like, we get each other in such a natural way. And I'm like, when you have that with someone, it's so great, but I don't want to skin you and wear you. I just love you for you and you Same with me. And I think, like, on the show, when you're in a smaller group, I think, like, for me, one thing I've really craved and, like, work really hard at is just, like, seeing how people are real individuals and, like, what I love about them as an individual, if we're getting along or not getting along. And I just really want to just be me.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, that's my power is, like, just being me.

[Manny]

Be her.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, be her. And I think when I feel like that's jeopardized, that's when I'm, like, the most defensive.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

And then the show gets hard.

[Manny]

Yeah. Well, I'm so grateful that you had such a good experience during season seven.

[Lisa Barlow]

I don't know how that it's gonna be, but I had so much fun doing it, so who cares? I never get mad at the edits because you can fix it at the reunion. And, like, I don't prep for the reunion. I just have to show up and remember. I either have to remember how I felt or how I would feel. And I'm fine.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

I have a really good memory too.

[Manny]

Yeah. Oh, you do.

[Lisa Barlow]

Which helps. Oh, yeah.

[Manny]

What's something you can memorize that like, other people can't?

[Lisa Barlow]

I don't know if I can remember things, but, like, Meredith always is always. Like, if you want to know what happened, just ask Lisa because she'll remember it in detail. And I pick up on weird details too.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, interesting details. Things I think are interesting.

[Manny]

So Manny is the number one fan of this show besides me. Do you have any questions for Lisa before we get into the tell me what's wrongs?

[Therapist Host]

Every time I hear you speak in any interview or like any little clip I see online, you have or you seem like you have such self love and like, such confidence. And I know this is like kind of like a broad question and also I feel like a very, like, common question, but I really, like, feel it from you. How did you, like, cultivate that? How do you have such self love and like, do you have any advice for someone that doesn't.

[Lisa Barlow]

Not me.

[Therapist Host]

A friend.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I wrote baby gorgeous, you're going to see the process on the show. And like, I. I cried throughout it because. Oh, I don't want to get emotional. Hold on. I'm going to. I always bite the inside of my cheeks, so I don't. I used to think emotion and crying was weakness. It's a superpower.

[Manny]

Superpower.

[Lisa Barlow]

All of our successful friends, like billionaire friends that have sold and I'm not bragging. I'm not dropping names. I could, but my closest friends, they all cry when they talk about something they care about because. And you can't be successful if you can't feel like, I don't want to be around someone that doesn't have feelings. Like, just done. We're like, if you have. No, if you're on a permanent beta blocker, like, not. Not one you need, but like one that you just don't feel. It's sad and it's like draining. But when I was writing Baby Gorgeous, I sat with Jed and Jake and I'm like, I'm going to give you a pep talk because everybody goes through it. Like, you're gonna see John goes through it and John is like, handsome and bold and strong and witty. Everybody goes through something where they're like, jarred. Like, where their self confidence is jarred, right? Or their like, ability to see who they actually are is jarred. And so I'm like, I'm gonna give you a pep talk. And I just started talking and it became the lyrics of the song. And I was like, your energy. I was, you know, giving it to my two friends like that I'm co writing this song with. And I'm like, your energy is magic. If you feel it happens, you have the power to like, make anything happen. And we turned it into a song. But I think since I was a little girl, I'll never forget going to this girl Michelle's house and her mom had me over, I swear, just to tell me how ugly I was and like, just to be mean. I was in fourth grade and like, I'll never forget it. I remember being that little. What dress I had on, what her mother was wearing, what room we were in, the yellow ugly pillows on the couch and. And feeling sorry for her mother that she felt like she had to put a little. Like, I knew I was a kid and I knew she should know better. I felt sorry for her mom and I still feel it to this day that the only way she could feel good about her child was to make me feel like shit. And I had another girl, Tina, in high school. Her mom did the same thing in ninth grade. We were all at their summer house and she was the mom relentlessly, every chance she got. And I just put up a wall and was like, I am better than this, like, for real and not better than people. I'm better than this. Like, and it just doesn't impact me. And I think, like, you know, I give a lot of it to God I'm like, seriously, like, love God. I have, like, such a good relationship with God. Like, when I said I'm important to God, like, everyone should feel important to God. Like, you should feel that. You should 100 feel it. Like, I matter what I think matters, how I feel matters. I matter. And I think when people get so caught in the chaos of, like, life in the world, you forget that. Like, it's easy to forget. Like, oh, my gosh, I matter. You know, even with Baby Gorgeous, it's so fun. Like, one girl's, like, sent me a video and she's like, I'm crying. Listening to, like, the lyrics, it makes me, like, a little emotional because I'm like. And I'm like, people should feel good about themselves.

[Manny]

Like, do you know what I mean?

[Lisa Barlow]

It's like, you should wake up and feel good. Like, it's special. My. You know what I follow a lot of on Tick Tock. My nephew has. He has their cerebral palsy, and it's not bad.

[Manny]

And.

[Lisa Barlow]

And I watch all these kids with cerebral palsy like, talking about their story. And my nephews isn't like, yeah, thanks, Jake. You're like, what do I do with these? But I watch, like, my nephew and, like, the struggles he's had. Like, I remember him saying, like, oh, my gosh, no one's ever gonna love me. And I'm like, and he's so gorgeous. And it didn't affect his speech, it affected his arm when he's born. And he's so cute. And I watch all these kids on Tick Tock talking about their cerebral palsy and, like, how that's hard for them to talk. And they're like, I'm brilliant inside, but I have a hard way expressing it. And I'm like, that's so beautiful. And, like, they find beauty in everything. And I think you just have to find, like, you know, God made all of us. Like, some people have harder hardships, they have health issues, they have physical impairments or deformities and stuff. But there's beauty in everybody and everything. And I think, like, when you start to feel that about yourself, it's hard. You have to remind yourself, like, it's a beautiful thing. And I've just, like, never allowed other people's thoughts about me when I know me to change that. That's why, like, in my song, it's like, people think you're lost out in the dark, but you're just shining, like, in the stars. Like, it's really powerful. And I really wanted people to hear that. And, like, just get that in your head. Because even if you don't really hear words at first, it's just like a catchy bop. Then you really start to hear the lyrics, and it's like, no. Like, you are, like, people that judge you online, chain. They don't know you. They don't know your magic. They don't know your energy. They don't get to experience what we all get to experience with you, that you're, like, funny and witty and charming and cool and, like, everything. They just, like, want to take from you. And then it's, like, easy when you learn, like, no, you don't get to take from me. I, I. This is beautiful and special about me. And we all, like, the weirdest things make some of us the coolest people, right? And. And I think it's just, like, embracing all of that and, like, understanding that. And, like, I am so much more accepting of other people because of that. Like, I feel like I, you know, I don't really look at other people's weaknesses as weaknesses. I just am like, oh, that's like, that's rough. I'm sad for you. Or, like, you know, or like, you're never gonna get a piece of me again, like, Right. You know what I mean? But I think it's. I think it's. I think some people have to work harder on it, but it's also, like, allowing your mind to open up to the point where you're just like, that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I matter. I matter to me. I know who I am. And everyone has special gifts, too. Like, not everyone gets the same ones. We all get special ones.

[Manny]

Wow, that makes me think of the song in such a different light.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Like, it really has so much depth.

[Lisa Barlow]

It's like a good pride song, too. You know what I mean? And it's like, don't let anyone tell you who you are. Don't let anyone mess with your. What you're, like, entitled to and what you deserve, you know? And people are going to judge you, but it doesn't matter. And, like, that's why it's like, we don't walk, we strut, you know? Like, you can go your own way if you have something bad to say. And just remember that if you read something negative, just be like, go your own way.

[Manny]

And you're just baby gorgeous.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, you don't belong here, baby gorgeous. Some people write me things to me, and I'm like, oh, you have bad energy.

[Manny]

Bad energy. You're not baby gorgeous.

[Lisa Barlow]

Your energy is really bad.

[Manny]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. And I just like, beautiful. And like, I hate being like a crybaby about it, but I think like so many people need to be reminded. Like, I want to write a book for kids on confidence.

[Manny]

Oh my God, that would be amazing.

[Lisa Barlow]

Just like a little cool book that would be amazing about like how to build your confidence and like where to be confident, you know, Because I think like, it's like something we all need to remind of our world is mean. It used to not be this mean because you didn't have to hide behind Cheeto stained fingers and like a keyboard. Like, you had to say things to people's faces. You had to see their reactions. You had to see the hurt on their faces. You had to deal with the repercussions to your actions. So you would feel bad. Like I remember everyone I was mean to, right? And like I regret it and like feel bad. I mean I. 10 years ago I made apologies to people where I'm like, I said this. I don't know if you remember, but I'll never forget it. And I feel bad.

[Manny]

You know, you, like, you took ownership of.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh yeah. Because I'm like, it was wrong because

[Manny]

you remember their reaction. But now everyone can just hit send and forgot about it.

[Lisa Barlow]

But they, they don't like the way it makes them feel when someone's mean to them, but they have no problem doing it to somebody else. But I think like, I like love. John will always tell me, he's like, you'll always come home and say, well, oh my gosh, I met this person and I'm obsessed with them. You're going to be obsessed with them. And he's like, you find all these like crazy unique things about them. And then when I meet him, I'm like, I see them differently. Or like, I'm like, oh, I would have never picked up on that. And I think it's just like finding that in other people and then it makes you love yourself more in the process.

[Manny]

I really. And I know you said that like you didn't want to cry, but I think when you cry, like it makes you human. It makes you so much more human because like a lot of people like see real. I, I always feel like people see reality television stars as characters, but it's like at the end of the day it's react. It's real television. And that's what you were saying. Life, it's real life. And so I like every time when I see you cry on television, like I Feel it. And I know that's real.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, yeah. And it's. And like I said, too, it's like, I used to think it was such a weakness. I'd be so embarrassed if I cried. And I'm like, no. It's like feeling you're being in tune with, like, you know, your feelings about yourself. But I think it's like, I think people. I think you guys are going to love watching John's story this year, too.

[Manny]

I'm excited.

[Lisa Barlow]

Never been this involved, the show. And it was, like, so good for us, I think, as individuals and for our marriage. I think it was so good.

[Manny]

Are you nervous for his. How he's gonna, like, receive?

[Lisa Barlow]

I think he's gonna hate it. He's gonna hate it. But I'm. But I'm like, we're so, like, obsessed. We're, like, in our own little bubble. Like, I. Like, last night I had to sleep at the hotel without him. And I. We cross legs when we sleep. Like, we're locked. And it was like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I missed your leg on mine. And we don't have a perfect marriage. I mean, we fight. Like, last season. I thought when I watched that one scene of us having lunch when we filmed it, it didn't bother me at all. I didn't think twice about it when I watched it. I was like, do you love me?

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, I literally was like, you don't love me anymore. You would have never quipped at me if you loved me. I'm like, john, you don't love me anymore. He said, what are you talking about? I always talk to you like that. And I'm like, no. But it felt different when I watched it back. It, like, broke my heart. Like, I cried for three weeks.

[Manny]

What's it like watching yourself back like that? Like, do you come out of your own body and like that view yourself as.

[Lisa Barlow]

When I watch, that's the only scene my hot mic moment took me out. Like, I mean, I.

[Manny]

You really.

[Lisa Barlow]

There's no. I mean, for like, six months after, when Ralph Fiennes was me on Watch what happens live, quoting the whole thing, I died. I was like, do I laugh? Do I cry? What do I do? Do I.

[Manny]

Is this, like, an honor?

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, it's Ray Fine.

[Manny]

It is an honor. It's an honor and it's great television.

[Lisa Barlow]

It was raw and human, and we all vent. That's the best way to get it all out and move on.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

That's why when I saw that hike, my hot mic moment. I was like.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, now I'm glad it happens. I think me and Meredith are in such a better place and, like, such a real authentic place. And so that was good. I mean, like, I. I would never want to hurt her, but, like, we got to, like, a really deep level of friendship because of that.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

And then, like, last season, when I watched that scene with John, like, I. At the reunion, when I'm talking about it, and I'm like, no, I cried for, like, three weeks. And everyone's like, it didn't seem that bad. And I'm like, no, but I know my partner, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it was bad.

[Manny]

Did you feel. Did you feel gaslit by, like, the woman at the reunion?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. When they were telling me how I felt.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Beyond. I was like, I. That's why I was like, I'm not saying. I mean, you guys can't hear everything I say because it gets edited down. But I kept saying, I'm not talking. I'm not saying another word. You guys are telling me how I feel. I'm telling you what's real, and you're telling me how I feel.

[Manny]

Well, we saw Meredith say to you. You said what you needed to say. You're good. You don't need to keep fighting back against everyone.

[Lisa Barlow]

All of them. Yeah. So it was wild. Wild, wild.

[Manny]

I kind of miss when it was you, Meredith, and Heather, though. Do you remember that? You guys had that. Am I wrong? Didn't they have, like, a threesome?

[Lisa Barlow]

Well, we were good for, like, a few months, but I. I just think it's like. I think some. No, I don't. I'm totally good.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. I'm totally good. I know we're. I know how I'm friends with Heather. I know how I'm friends with everybody. Like, I know. Like. Yeah.

[Manny]

Okay. You ready to do that?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Tell me what's wrong. These are just the right in. And they tell us what's wrong, and we give them advice.

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay.

[Manny]

And I think you'll give some really good advice.

[Lisa Barlow]

I hope so.

[Manny]

I have fallen in love with my roommate and don't know what to do. We're both gay, and she knows I have feelings for her, but says I would make things. But says it would make things complicated. How do I go about living with her? Do I keep pretending that everything she does is a sign? Or do I have to disassociate and neglect these feelings?

[Lisa Barlow]

It's not a sign. Like, everything she does is her just being kind. It's not a sign. You need to get a new roommate because this is painful for you.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. This is so painful. You have to move.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Get a new room.

[Manny]

I kind of agree. It's like you said, you're in love with her, and there's no coming back from that.

[Lisa Barlow]

No, no. She knows, and she. It's not reciprocated, and it's only going to hurt you. Yeah, it's going to. It's. And you know what? It's a blessing in disguise because that means it's not your person. You'll find your person. We all have to have one big heartbreak before we can find, like, the love of our life. Like, for sure. Maybe even two big heartbreaks so that you can really appreciate, like, the person you end up with. I remember sitting at a nail salon and this girl was, like, trying to find a sign and everything with this guy to the point where I finally turned around and I'm like, he doesn't like you. He's not calling you because he doesn't like you. Like, you need to move on. Like, I'm listening to the whole thing. There's. Your friend is trying to be nice to you right now. He does not like you.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Men that like girls or girls that like girls, or guys that like guys. Show it.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. If they like you back, you're. You'd be together.

[Manny]

Yeah. You wouldn't have to question it.

[Lisa Barlow]

And there's somebody amazing waiting for you that's going to appreciate your love, want to reciprocate your love, and you're going to be like, thank God that didn't work out, Right?

[Manny]

Yes, Always. Thank God that didn't work out.

[Lisa Barlow]

Thank God it didn't work out. Thank God for unanswered prayers, right? Yes, for sure. It's part of a country song.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

I can't remember which one, but I know it is.

[Manny]

I want to make, like, a Nixon 5 rhyme with baby gorgeous.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, let's do it.

[Manny]

Like Lisa Barlow Hive. Baby gorgeous vibe. Nixon 5.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, I love it.

[Manny]

Right? I just came up with that right now.

[Lisa Barlow]

That was good.

[Manny]

Yeah. I just killed that. Just. Yes. Lisa Barlow Hive. Baby gorgeous. Five nicks in five.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

Are you a Knicks fan?

[Lisa Barlow]

Love the next. Our friend Jordan Clarkson plays for the next. I'm obsessed with him. He played for Utah. He is such a good human being. I love his whole entire family, and great dad, like, loved them. And when he went to the Knicks, I was like, if we were gonna lose you from the jazz to anyone, thank God you went home.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Die hard Knicks fan. Die Hard.

[Manny]

I mean, being in the city for the next day. Yeah. It's your. It's who you are.

[Lisa Barlow]

I cannot believe you were there. I like, literally, you've had the best few weeks. It was like, Jake.

[Manny]

I know.

[Lisa Barlow]

Jake. That's why you have haters.

[Manny]

But I had a great time.

[Lisa Barlow]

I loved watching you have a great time.

[Manny]

I had a great time.

[Lisa Barlow]

I live vicariously through you in Europe and New York. You deserve all of this.

[Manny]

Thank you.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. When you're front row at the Dior show.

[Manny]

I've never been to Paris, so I'm

[Lisa Barlow]

like, blog every second of this trip, right? Every second.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

I would be like, I'm at Dr. Hi.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

For everything.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

You're gonna hate either way.

[Manny]

So my boyfriend loves his mom almost to an overbearing degree.

[Lisa Barlow]

Weird. Done.

[Manny]

I just started to notice this, and it's all fine for now. But what if we're to get married and I'm his second favorite woman in his life? Like, what? They have a great relationship and they're best friends, so it's just weird for me when they spend more time together than with me.

[Lisa Barlow]

I mean, red flag all over the place. I love my children more than my. I would give them my organs. You need my kidneys. They're yours.

[Manny]

No.

[Lisa Barlow]

Weird.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Say goodbye.

[Manny]

Goodbye.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

Just break up.

[Lisa Barlow]

We're done.

[Manny]

We're done.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah.

[Manny]

My family misplaced my birth certificate. Like, they just lost it. I needed it recently, and my mom was like, oh, you know what? Where is that? And it's just gone. So I technically have no real proof of citizenship. I looked it up, and you can replace it. But my real issue is how the fuck were they so careless with something so important? Like, it feels like I'm invisible.

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay, you're not invisible. How many kids does your mom have? Maybe you're the only one. You know what? Maybe my mom misplaces stuff on the regular. On the regular. And my mom, literally, when I was 17, gave me my Social Security card, my birth certificate, and said it's no longer my responsibility because if it's mine, it's going to disappear.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes. And she's an organized, neat, free. And my. My house smells like bleach when you walk into it. So we're super clean, super organized, and she. She could barely keep track of my birth certificate. You're not invisible. That you're in your head about this. Everybody loves you. You know what is so cool? Something good is going to come from this. Like, the journey to get your birth certificate is going to open some other crazy door that you're going to be like, oh, thank God I lost my birth certificate.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Because stuff like that happens to me all day. I'll be like, where is my one Goyard wallet? And then I'll be looking for it, and I'll find five other good things, Right? Yes. This is like a little magic thing that's happening.

[Manny]

My parents lose all the time for me. Like, my dad forgets my birthday all the time. My dad calls me my brother's name all the time. Like, I feel like we're in, like, this era where people are, like, helicopter parenting their kids hard and, like, they know where everything is. If I called my parents right now and said, where's my birth certificate? They'd be like, I don't know. They're like, I don't know, because I don't know when I would need that.

[Lisa Barlow]

And you're very visible.

[Manny]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

Everyone loves you, honey. You're good.

[Manny]

Well, you know what? If no one loves me, at least Lisa Barlow loves me. And that's what's the most important.

[Lisa Barlow]

I love. Love you.

[Manny]

I love you more. Eyes. Loved. Love. My best friend from childhood and I used to talk every single day. Even after I moved away years and years ago, we've completely drifted, which happens. I got busy with college and my career, and he stayed in the town. He always said. He always said he wanted to do that. I've tried calling him a couple of times recently, and he isn't picking up, which is very unlike him. I just learned through a mutual friend recently that apparently he thinks I became this asshole New York City, New York hotshot, and I'm icing him out. How do I tell him I've just been busy?

[Lisa Barlow]

Will you pick up the phone and call him or text him if he's not picking up? I think you should write him a letter.

[Manny]

Like, handwritten.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, handwrite a letter and just be like, I miss you, bitch, or something. Like, yeah, for real. Just write him a letter. And I just think people. It's probably his. It sounds like it's his own insecurities he's projecting.

[Manny]

He doesn't want to stay in the

[Lisa Barlow]

town because he stayed in the town. You went out and did other things and, like, moved on. And instead of being like, like, I love this life for you, enjoy that. I, like, kept, like, you know, stay true to what I wanted. It's just a projection.

[Manny]

Yeah. Most things are.

[Lisa Barlow]

You guys got to bump into each other.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Therapist Host]

Yeah.

[Manny]

I mean, if you. If the friendship is real. It'll come back around.

[Lisa Barlow]

There's no way that friendship's not real. Like, when your friends that long just. You just have to see each other.

[Manny]

Right? That's what I always say about me. Me and my best friend Julia fight all the.

[Lisa Barlow]

And then you just need to see each other.

[Manny]

All we do is see each other. And it's like, oh, yeah, we're fine.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, we love each other. Why were we mad?

[Manny]

Right? Why were we mad? Like, I. We've literally screamed, cried. That's why I'm like, I love housewives so much. I'm like, I feel like this is my life. Hi, Jake and special guest. It feels like I'm the only one in my life who is trying to keep relationships alive. When I stop trying or don't show initiative, the relationship dies. Am I the problem or just unlucky with friends?

[Lisa Barlow]

No, you're special. I think that people that are so amazing usually have one to three friends. It's not. You just keep vibing, keeping you. You're not the problem. They're not meant for you. You're rejecting them energetically. You know, quality is better than quantity. And you're not the problem. You just haven't found your people yet. Yes.

[Manny]

Yes. Enough said.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, the most special people have very small circles. I completely agree. You don't have a big circle if

[Manny]

you have the biggest circle. And I was so run ragged, and I'm like, I literally.

[Lisa Barlow]

They were sucking you dry.

[Manny]

Like, I need. My body was like, yeah. Literally giving up on me.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

My best friend and I have a lot of fun together, but she will randomly make negative comments about me, like bringing up my ex or things I am insecure about to people we hang out with.

[Lisa Barlow]

She's not your friend.

[Manny]

Right.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. Bye.

[Manny]

Bye. I don't have a ton of friends, so I don't know whether to drop her or not. And it sucks because she's really funny but always uses me as the butt of the joke. Nope.

[Lisa Barlow]

Nope. Bye. Not your friend, not your friends, not your friend, not your friend. Nope. Yeah, I mean, there's like a million quotes I could send that girl.

[Manny]

Right? I have a quote above my bed. My favorite quote. Manny painted it for me. She's a painter. Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

She could pay one too.

[Manny]

No, she's very talented. She paint. Painted a painting for my parents. Yes. Yeah, she's very talented. It says. But yeah, it's. You need a quote. And Lisa can send you quotes.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

What's a quote you would give her right now?

[Lisa Barlow]

Manny or this girl?

[Manny]

This girl.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, I was like, one to paint or one. You know, I think it's the thing about the eagle flying, you know, like when you know the only way to take out an eagle, there's another bird that, like, what is it? The crow will attach itself to the eagle and the eagle doesn't re react. It just flies higher. And then the crowd, like, falls off, you know, like, just fly higher. Just keep being yourself. Like, you know, don't worry about other people. But someone, someone that's being passive aggressive to you under the guise of humor does not like you. They're jealous of you. It's a trigger. And I think that person needs to figure out what you trigger in them. But you need to know that you are a trigger for this person because if you weren't, they wouldn't be being passive aggressive with nasty comments about you.

[Manny]

Right. A lot.

[Lisa Barlow]

I don't know what the quote is, right. But just keep flying higher and buying new friends.

[Manny]

Don't let the crow bring you down.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, don't let the crow bring you down.

[Manny]

I had been best friends with this guy for four years. We hung out all the time, FaceTimed every night, and told each other everything. But a few months ago, everything changed. When he started dating this girl. He would spend all of his time texting and calling her. Well, that makes sense because they're dating.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

And he didn't tell me that they were dating until I confronted him about it. Oh, so you're in love with him now? He ignores me, doesn't tell me anything, and I've turned into the evil girl best friend.

[Lisa Barlow]

He's moved on. I think he has a new best friend.

[Manny]

Respectfully, she was a little in love with him, didn't want to admit it and. Right. Am I. What do you guys think?

[Lisa Barlow]

No. 100%.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

I think you have a crush. Your Twitter painted by him. And you're what Twitter painted. Like, you know when you get those butterflies in your stomach.

[Manny]

Oh, I love that word.

[Lisa Barlow]

Twitter painted. I love that Twitter painted feeling. I still have it with John, but, like, I think she probably crushing hard.

[Manny]

Yeah, move on. Move on. Yeah, I'm bad at sex and it's becoming a real issue. I was a little bit of a late bloomer, but I'm 25 and should maybe have a better handle on this. During one night stand or hookups. I never know what to say or what to do after. And I'm just really uncoordinated in general. I have an active sex life too. So is it just like practice makes perfect?

[Lisa Barlow]

No no, practice is not make perfect.

[Manny]

Wait, so what do you think you should do?

[Lisa Barlow]

I think you need to just find your person and get into a rhythm.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

You need a better rhythm and you'll find it with your person. But practice doesn't make perfect because then you're just having sex. You're not having sex because you want to. Listen, I tell my kids this all the time. Like, not all the time, but, like, when we talk about, like, sex and stuff, I'm like, there is nothing better than having intimacy with your person. When you love someone, everything's so much better. Like, I'm like, I'm probably gonna sound weird right now. I'm so anti pornography. I've told my kids since they were little. I told Jack, pornography is bad. It'll ruin your brain. It's worse than drugs. And it does. And I guess he got older. I'm like, jack, you don't ever want to look at porn or get addicted to porn because you will never have great sex if you watch porn or anything. And I think it's not about with this girl in her situation, it's not about quantity and like, being like, I need to be good at sex. You can't be great at sex with someone you're just meeting and practicing on. Like, great sex comes from having a rhythm and being in love and like feeling someone and knowing their body and appreciating their body and like the energy you guys have together, that's like, great. Like, that's when you know you're great at sex. Like, you're not bad. This person is not bad. You're not bad at sex.

[Manny]

Right?

[Lisa Barlow]

You just have. You're not having. You're having sex with the wrong people. Like, save yourself for the right one. And then it will just work. Yes, yes, it'll just work.

[Manny]

You give great advice.

[Lisa Barlow]

I hope so.

[Manny]

You should have like an advice podcast, Dr. Ruth.

[Lisa Barlow]

Like, yes, no, but it's true though. It works. And like, I think a lot of people put crazy pressures on themselves. I'm like, what is good sex? Like, what is bad sex? If you're having drunk sex sex, like, it's probably, it might be good for in the moment, then you might wake up and you hate it. Like, but having that quality person and saving yourself for like someone where it's like that intense, like euphoric, like Twitter paid amazing feeling is so much better than randos. You're not going to have good sex and you're going to think you suck,

[Manny]

but you don't suck.

[Lisa Barlow]

You do not Suck.

[Manny]

You just need to find your person.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. It's impossible to suck at sex.

[Manny]

Really?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, I think so.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Lisa Barlow]

I think if you're into the person, if it's like, a stranger and you're like, don't care. I think it's like, there's so many extraneous factors that I think when you and your person are together, it's impossible to have bad sex.

[Manny]

Love that.

[Lisa Barlow]

When it's your person.

[Manny]

Agreed. I haven't found my person yet, but I will.

[Lisa Barlow]

Okay.

[Manny]

I will.

[Lisa Barlow]

Do we, like anybody? Crushing.

[Manny]

I hope. I want to find a Paris lover.

[Lisa Barlow]

You're just. It's gonna be. Kiss me.

[Manny]

Okay. Please. Put it out there for me. Put it out there for me.

[Lisa Barlow]

When I told my friend Julia, she got married, we were at Chiconi's, like, four years ago, and she's fast.

[Manny]

Restaurant in the world.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. And she was like, I'm never gonna find anyone. I'm like, I don't even know what's going on. And she's so gorgeous. She's so smart and successful. I go, just talk openly to God. All the way home, she was living in Santa Monica. I'm like, tell God what you want. She did the whole way home. And I'm like, just keep telling God every day until he gives you your person. She had her person. It was like, six weeks later.

[Manny]

So you just should.

[Lisa Barlow]

They're married.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Just put it out there. Just all you have to do is keep saying, I'm gonna find my person. I'm gonna find who I should be with.

[Manny]

In Paris.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes, in Paris. It's Paris, right?

[Manny]

Yep.

[Lisa Barlow]

And yes. Yes, we need a Parisian.

[Manny]

I'm gonna text you updates. I'm gonna FaceTime you with updates. Oh, I'm gonna face.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, my gosh.

[Manny]

We don't go to the Enough.

[Lisa Barlow]

We need to text more. Send me video.

[Manny]

We'll send video messages every day.

[Lisa Barlow]

Oh, you have to.

[Manny]

I love getting. Sometimes I get video messages from Lisa, and I feel really special.

[Lisa Barlow]

I send you messages.

[Manny]

Yes. And one time, Manny and I were watching Salt Lake, and I was like, should I just call Lisa?

[Lisa Barlow]

Yes.

[Manny]

And Manny was like, no way. And I was like, swear. I think she'll pick up. And you did.

[Lisa Barlow]

I did.

[Manny]

And Manny was freaking out.

[Lisa Barlow]

I will always pick up for you. Unless I'm in a position where I can't.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

I will always pick up Lisa.

[Manny]

What did we learn today?

[Lisa Barlow]

That we love each other so much.

[Manny]

Yes, we do. And Baby Gorgeous is low key. A pride anthem.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah, it is. It's a pride in there. It's an anthem for self.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Yeah. And I think it's a mantra that everyone should live by and that you're gonna be having the time you're. You are having the summer of your life. Do you realize this?

[Manny]

No, I don't. And I need to.

[Lisa Barlow]

Wait. Do you realize this? Like, think about it. You were at the Knicks game, right? The most epic game of all time. Of our, like, generation.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

You were there a week before that, where were you? On a super yacht in the Mediterranean.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Lisa Barlow]

Your life is good.

[Manny]

It's good.

[Lisa Barlow]

You learn that your life is great. And you deserve it all.

[Manny]

Thank you. Yes.

[Lisa Barlow]

You deserve it all.

[Manny]

And you deserve it all.

[Lisa Barlow]

Thank you.

[Manny]

I love you.

[Lisa Barlow]

Bye.