Session 133: Paul W. Downs

Summary

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Session 133: Paul W. Downs

Podcast: Therapuss with Jake Shane
Host: Jake Shane
Guest: Paul W. Downs
Date: July 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Therapuss is both a heartfelt and hilarious deep-dive with writer, actor, and producer Paul W. Downs, co-creator and star of HBO Max’s acclaimed series Hacks (as well as a Broad City alumnus). Marking the release of Hacks’ series finale, Paul and Jake engage in a raw, behind-the-scenes conversation about the show’s creation, legacy, and their personal journeys inside and outside comedy. The episode also explores mental health, the dynamics of the comedy world, career advice, and answers listener dilemmas with signature wit and candor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hacks Series Finale Reflections

• Emotional Farewell: Both Paul and Jake acknowledge the bittersweet feeling as Hacks concludes.

  • “It is the finale of Hacks, the series finale, final episode. So weird that you’re a part of my castmate.” — Paul (02:47)
  • “That was the first time I was ever on television.” — Jake (02:53)

• Casting and ‘Breaking Talent’:

  • Paul’s pride in introducing new talent through Hacks:
    • “Honestly, it is one of the great joys of the show is being like, here’s people that we find so funny. Hey, world, watch them shine.” — Paul (03:12)
  • Jake recounts his experience as “Social Media Girly” and being improvisationally thrown “into the deep end with Jean Smart.”
    • “To start…thrown into the deep end with Jean Smart, and for us to be like, improvise. That is so intimidating. But you didn’t seem scared at all.” — Paul (04:01)

2. The Origins and Creation of Hacks

• The Road Trip That Sparked It All:

  • “Jen, Lucia, Jen Statsky, Lucia Agnello and I were on a road trip…we were talking about female comedians who didn’t have the same opportunities…a show that’s like a dark mentorship between one of these comedians and…a young, cool comedy kid.” — Paul (05:24)
  • Built from admiration for comedy legends like Lucille Ball, Joan Rivers, and Phyllis Diller (07:17).

• Casting Jean Smart as Deborah Vance:

  • Only met with Jean, who immediately clicked:
    • "She wanted to be a stand-up…When I was 12, I dressed as Phyllis Diller." — Jean via Paul (07:46)

3. Ending the Series on Their Own Terms

• ‘Going Out on Top’:

  • Paul discusses the intentionality behind the series' ending:
    • “She wants to call her own light. She wants to go out on top...when we, we knew that [Broad City] series was coming to an end that we pitched [Hacks]." (05:19, 08:13)

• Emotional Impact vs. Broad City:

  • “It's like our baby…it's much harder. This one's much harder.” — Paul (08:32)

4. Comedy, Community, and Improvisation

• Alt Comedy vs. Traditional Stand-Up:

  • Paul and Jake discuss NYC’s alternative comedy scene and venues like UCB and the unique “alt” spirit of their projects.
    • “Even the UCB to me is alt…You would see people like Meg…It wasn't like the traditional setup-punchline, stand up.” — Paul (09:53)

• Discovering Meg Stalter:

  • Found via Instagram for her “unhinged” characters.
    • “Her, her characters are so unhinged and they're so funny…she’s next level.” — Paul (11:57)

• Set Atmosphere + Improv Magic:

  • On set, there was freedom and laughter, with scenes sometimes running because Paul and Meg couldn’t stop improvising and laughing.
    • “Lucy would be like, okay, enough…she’s really good at improvising within the confines of the scene.” — Paul (13:00)

5. Behind-The-Scenes of Filming the Finale

• Navigating Real World Obstacles:

  • The finale was shot in the Louvre under complex conditions (permits, strikes, backup plans at Versailles).
    • “We had no place to shoot. And then the president of the Louvre resigned. So the strike ended and we were able to do it. It was crazy.” — Paul (17:39)

• Last Day of Hacks:

  • Filming after hours in the Louvre, emotion among a skeleton crew.
    • “So it was just us in this museum. It was really crazy. It was really surreal and beautiful and emotional.” — Paul (18:04)

6. Advice and Reflections on the Creative Process

• Taking Improv Lessons Into TV:

  • Principles like “yes, and” and finding a “comedic game” in every scene carried over from UCB to Broad City to Hacks.
    • “Another thing...while every scene should, like, serve the story...it should also have a comedic game. So there should be something else happening that's funny and repeatable, a pattern you can repeat, and that's like a improv 101 thing.” — Paul (37:00)

• Handling Criticism and Public Opinion:

  • "For me, it's more about output than input...the one bad thing will kill you." — Paul (39:34)
  • “Comedians are the most insecure people on the planet…because you just want someone to laugh.” — Joan Rivers, cited by Jake (41:11)

7. Personal Conversations: OCD, Mental Health, and Living in LA vs NYC

• Bonding over OCD and anxiety rituals, treatment, and ‘magical thinking’.
  • “You can't…it's really good that it's invisible to people, because to someone like Lucia, it's so apparent.” — Paul (26:34)
  • “Are you on meds for it?” — Jake (27:24)
    • “No. Are you?” — Paul (27:25)
    • “Yeah. 300 milligrams.” — Jake (27:28)
    • “Wow.” — Paul (27:29)
  • Reflections on “softening” after moving from the East Coast and the different energies and social experiences between LA and NY (31:43).

8. Listener Write-Ins: Tell Me What's Wrong

Notable Listener Q&A (44:56–66:50)

• Forgetting an anniversary:
  • “I think it's forgivable…what does he really like that he doesn't get a lot?” — Paul (45:59)
• Severe spending problems:
  • “You can't take it with you…think about cost per wear.” — Paul (47:42)
  • “If you're saving all this money for a wedding and not buying the things you want now, the pressure on it will be so much higher.” — Jake (48:04)
• Being labeled pretentious:
  • “One should own the term pretentious and the term snob…It means you care about things, and you care about things that are good…” — Paul (57:01)
• Debating moving to NYC despite leaving people behind:
  • “You gotta go. Listen to Breakaway by Kelly Clarkson…If it's a dream of yours, you should absolutely do it.” — Paul (63:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Social Media Girly. I remember we were on set and Paul was like, do you want a name?” — Jake (03:40)

• “I think it's anti-Semitic.” — Paul, joking about the non-Jewish bat mitzvah subplot (14:15)

• On the crew: “It was like lightning in a bottle that we got like decent good people, you know?” — Paul (54:49)

• “Their set is, like, really, like, friendly, like everyone's friends.” — Jake (24:55)

• On improvisational scenes:
  “She improvised…he would never…any animals… I could not get the line out.” — Paul (13:31)

• “I think if you're authentic to what you like…if you're authentically a snob, it's okay.” — Paul (57:30)

• “Congratulations on five incredible seasons of Hacks.” — Jake (70:11)
  “Thank you for being a part of it.” — Paul (70:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | | --- | --- | | 02:35 | Paul and Jake discuss the Hacks finale and legacy | | 05:24 | The real-life inspiration for Hacks & concept origin | | 07:46 | Casting Jean Smart as Deborah Vance | | 11:24 | How Paul found Meg Stalter | | 13:23 | Favorite improv moments on set | | 15:14 | Behind-the-scenes on filming in the Louvre | | 18:04 | Describing the last emotional day on set | | 24:09 | Perfectionism & set culture | | 26:05 | Mental health, OCD, and personal struggles | | 31:43 | Life in LA vs. New York, how “soft” LA makes you | | 39:21 | Receiving and handling public and critical feedback | | 44:52 | Listener Q&A: relationship anniversaries, spending, pretentiousness | | 63:55 | Should I move to New York? (Listener Q) | | 65:00 | Podcast advice for aspiring creators | | 67:03 | Broad City trivia & SoulCycle stories | | 70:11 | Sign-off with affirmations of love and congratulations |

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Episode Tone & Energy

The episode balances tongue-in-cheek humor and deeply introspective moments, with candid admissions of vulnerability, triumph, and the creative chaos behind beloved TV. Jake’s playful, self-deprecating style meshes naturally with Paul’s earnest and insightful reflections, creating an environment of trust, laughter, and genuine warmth. The therapy “write-in” segment continues the collaborative spirit, offering advice with humor and real-world wisdom.

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In Summary

If you're curious about the making of Hacks, interested in comedy's evolving landscape, or seeking authentic conversation about mental health and the entertainment industry, this episode is energizing, moving, and full of laughter. Whether reminiscing on Broad City or giving advice on relationships, Jake and Paul embody the power of honest, supportive conversation—and celebrate the community that comedy can build.

Transcript

[Paul Downs]

Not all probiotics are created equal.

[Jake Shane]

New olly precise probiotics are expertly made with clinically studied strains for targeted benefits beyond digestion, like skin health, metabolism, or even stress response. Find your precise probiotic at a Walmart near you. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Hi, welcome back to Therapist. I am in Paris right now and so that's why this is on an iPhone. This week on Therapist, we have Paul Downs, who created in and stars in one of my favorite shows on television, which just ended hacks on hbo. Max, it's. If you haven't seen it, please watch it. It is genuinely one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. It's so funny, heartfelt. It's incredible. And he is just the most incredible, wonderful human of all time. And so I'm really excited for you guys to watch it. In terms of life updates for me, I am finally on a European sleep schedule. Not that anyone fucking asked or cared, but I finally woke up at like 10am today and I wasn't tired. I. So that was. That was really good. I survived the Paris heat wave. It was like the sun was passing me on the sidewalk. I legitimately could not leave my room. I've never. The streets were empty. I've never experienced heat like that my entire life. And you guys know I fucking hate heat because as I always say, you can always add layers. You can't rip your own skin off. I struggled with the heat a lot. Also, my Shake and Train with Jake Shane series on the Alo Wellness app is out now. I had so much, so much fun filming it. We filmed it in Sandrope on the aisle yacht. It was like genuinely one of the most insane experiences of my entire Life. It's four classes. They're 10 minutes each. Two strength training, two Pilates. So you could, like, if you only have 10 minutes, you could do one of them. If you only have 20 minutes, you could do two of them. And if you have the whole time, you can do all four of them and make it like a full workout. Like, it's really, really amazing. Like, I've been doing it while I've been away. I tried to make it funny. I tried to make it like you're listening to a podcast, but, like, also working, if you know what I mean. But it's great. I'm really proud of it. And I love Louie and Bianca and you guys know I love Alo. So Check it out now on the Aloe Wellness Club app. But, yeah, Paul, I love you pussies. Enjoy the episode.

[Paul Downs]

I love you so much.

[Jake Shane]

Well, we are filming this on a very special day. It is a special day and a very sad day.

[Paul Downs]

It is a sad day.

[Jake Shane]

It is the finale of Hacks, the

[Paul Downs]

series finale, final episode. So weird that you're a part of my castmate.

[Jake Shane]

I know. Thank you.

[Paul Downs]

You're welcome.

[Jake Shane]

That was the first time I was ever on television.

[Paul Downs]

Ah, I love that. I love it when we break talent, you know?

[Jake Shane]

You do break talent, though. Hannah had never acted before. Meg had never acted before.

[Paul Downs]

Carl had. Had done theater and had done. He had done one film. But it was their first acting job on television. Y. Robbie.

[Jake Shane]

Robbie.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, a lot of people. A lot of people. Honestly, it is one of the great joys of the show is being like, here's people that we find so funny. Hey, world, watch them shine. Like, it is really one of the best parts of the show. I know that sounds cheugy or whatever, but it's. It's truly.

[Jake Shane]

I don't think that's chewy.

[Paul Downs]

Well, it's earnest.

[Jake Shane]

I think that's why Hacks became hacks.

[Paul Downs]

Totally.

[Jake Shane]

Like, there's no Hacks without Meg. There's no Hacks without Hannah.

[Paul Downs]

No.

[Jake Shane]

Like, you know.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

No Hacks without you. There's no Hacks without.

[Paul Downs]

Thank you. Without you. Social media girly.

[Jake Shane]

Social media girly. I remember we were on set and Paul was like, do you want a name?

[Paul Downs]

And I said, which is so funny. I think that's like the. That is the comedy instinct. That's right.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. I was like, I know.

[Paul Downs]

It's funnier because we wrote it before. We were like, jake would be amazing. You know? So we had written the part, and then we were like, do we change the name? But I'm glad we stuck with Social Media Girly.

[Jake Shane]

I'm glad we stuck with it too. That was some of the best days ever.

[Paul Downs]

You were so good. And you know what, to start, like, thrown into the deep end with Gene Smart, and for us to be like, improvise. It is. That is so intimidating. But you didn't seem scared at all. You were so natural. You were so good.

[Jake Shane]

I didn't know any of the phrases that you guys were doing. You were like, in all. I didn't know what an all was.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, my God.

[Jake Shane]

So you guys were like, can you give us an all? And I was like, depends on what you mean.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. I was like, is that something with full frontal? I can't do that.

[Jake Shane]

Right. I was like, what is that? Now I know all the terms. Yeah, all the terms.

[Paul Downs]

That's good. That's good.

[Jake Shane]

Was Jean. Oh, well, I have a few questions. Okay.

[Paul Downs]

Hey, that's why I'm here, is to answer your question.

[Jake Shane]

True that. So you guys knew the final. What you wanted the final episode to be when you pitched it?

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Yeah, we pitched that. I mean, I. I guess is airing after. So, yeah, we pitched the whole. She gets a diagnosis, and she is someone who really curates her life.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

She really wants to control her image and her material and all of that. So we were like, this is someone who wants to call her own light. She wants to go out on top. So the idea of, like, right to life and ending your life with dignity when you want to was a thing that we wanted to explore. And we, you know, the show is at its heart about these two people that have different opinions and they grapple with things, and the grist is like, what makes them both better. And we were like, well, what? The ultimate one is life and death. So we pitched that. Yeah. In 2019.

[Jake Shane]

Wow.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Where did the idea for Hacks originate?

[Paul Downs]

Jen. Lucia. Jen Statsky. Lucia Agnello and I were on a road trip. I was filming a Netflix special, actually. Netflix, the characters you can click over after this. And, you know, they are the funniest people I know. They're like my inspiration, my muses, and I wanted them to come with me to punch it up, because it was a. I was. We were going to Monster Jam in Maine, and I. Monster Jam? Yeah, you know, like, big trucks. Big trucks, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Why were you going to Monster Jam?

[Paul Downs]

Because I had a character, Jasper Cooch, who. Whose catchphrase is big trucks. And I was going to, like, it was actually crazy that they did this. I contacted them. I was like, I'm filming a Netflix special as Jasper Cooch. I contacted them with a fake email. I was like, can I come and warm up the crowd? And they're like, sure. They gave me the mic. I got in a stadium. I made them do a call and response. When I say big, you say trucks. I made them.

[Jake Shane]

We've been back and forth into it entirely.

[Paul Downs]

Yes. But I could have been like, I got a bomb, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were absolutely like, here you go. And so anyway, they came with me to help me, you know, just to punch it up and, like, pitch things to say as we film this. And on that road trip, we were talking about female comedians who, like, didn't have the same opportunities that a lot of their male counterparts had. And we were like a show that's like a dark mentorship between one of these comedians and like a young, cool comedy kid. Because we also came from ucb and, you know, we were also in the alt comedy scene. And there was a thing about cool comedy versus, like, uncool comedy, which interested us. And so we were like, that's a cool thing to explore. And we wrote an email to each other being like, assistant show. Vegas stand up gets an assistant and like tortures her. And it just like was born there. But on that day we were like, that's. That would be a really good show that we show. I want to watch.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

You know, was it always Gene at that point? And Gene will say this. Jean's like, I was too young at that point, because that was 2015.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

She's like, I was way too young. But it was like an amalgamation of Lucille Ball and Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller and Elaine May. And there's like a lot of Debbie Reynolds, there's like a lot of showbiz legends that we kind of like borrowed from to make the character. And so it wasn't anybody specifically. We didn't think about an actress. But when we finally got it, you know, picked up and we were thinking about who would be perfect, there was a really short list. And Jean was. Jean was the only meeting we took.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, no way.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Because she was like. I mean, she'll. She'll say this, but she was like, I wanted to be a stand up. When I was 12, I dressed as Phyllis Diller. She's like, it's crazy. The script is for me.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And we were like, great. We think you're perfect for it. So, yeah, it was really wild. So I, I was the first person attached because we wrote Jimmy for me.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

And Gene was the second.

[Jake Shane]

Wow.

[Paul Downs]

The only meeting we had.

[Jake Shane]

That's. That's incredible. It's like kismet.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

So was Broad City still on TV when you guys were.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, when we pitched it. We had written the final season and we may have been shooting the final season when we pitched it, but we were. It was basically when we, we knew that that series was coming to an end that we pitched.

[Jake Shane]

So what feels different about this series coming to an end than Broad City coming to an end?

[Paul Downs]

Well, you know, Broad Cities and was really. Abby and Alana decided, you know, that they were like, what, want to go out on top? And they wanted to end it. And we then, in this situation did the same Thing, but it's different because we. It's like our baby, you know, all of these characters we birthed in a way. And so it's really weird to send it off and say goodbye, especially because people have responded so well. People love the show and it's so nice to hear that. And it feels crazy in a time when it's hard to make comedy. And I just mean, I don't mean it's like hard to say things because I don't believe in that. I think you can, you know, I think that's not the right. I'm not doing that thing. But I do think like, you know, fewer and fewer being made. So it does feel crazy to be like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna go out and end it now because people want us to keep going. So it does feel crazy. But I think it's. It's much harder. This one's much harder, right?

[Jake Shane]

Because this one was. Yeah, this was like your decision is like your Deborah decision.

[Paul Downs]

Literally. It's so. Yeah, we are, we are the Debras in this scenario.

[Jake Shane]

Yes.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Do you have a fit? Well, you just spoke about like alt comedy versus, like cool comedy. What? Like, I've never heard it described. Like, I know, like alt comedy is like what Meg does, where it's like, what's going on? Yeah, but like, I'm laughing.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, totally. Yes, that is. Yes. But I think like, even the UCB to me is alt. You know, it was basically like there are some really traditional stand up places. Like, and again, this is just my assessment, but there's the Laugh Factory, there's the Comedy Store. There's places where veteran comedians do their stuff. And then there's. There were places, at least at the time in New York. There was like the Creek and the Cave. There were like. It wasn't the Comedy Cellar. You know, it was like smaller, weird venues sometimes. It was like UCB was in the basement of a grocery store. It was, it was beneath the Gristees.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, they have like a. Beneath the Christie.

[Paul Downs]

It was beneath the Grassidis.

[Jake Shane]

I one time got so high in a graffiti's and my knees buckled and I fell and I fainted almost. Oof. Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

And I didn't smoke for two years after that.

[Paul Downs]

Wow. Wow. But you're back.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, I'm back. I need to stop though, because I had a moment out of my body yesterday where I ran into someone on my way to CVS and I was talking to them and I was like, I feel like I'm talking to Like Emma Stone in Begonia. Like, I feel like I'm like talking to like a literal alien. Like I need to like get. Stop smoking.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, I get it. Yeah, I get it. Out of body. Experience can be good or bad.

[Jake Shane]

It was bad.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, it was bad.

[Jake Shane]

It was bad.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, well, yeah, so it was in the basement of Grassidis and it was like really, you know, it was like, it was not traditional stuff. You would see people like Meg, you would see like weird performance art. You would see stand up, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like the traditional setup punchline, stand up.

[Jake Shane]

How did you find Meg? Did you find her via Twitter?

[Paul Downs]

Instagram. Yeah, Instagram. Well, she again was in the scene and so I actually, the first time I ever met her in person, we were both on a stand up show together. And to call what she does stand up is like not fair because it's performance art. You know what I mean? She's like more than a stand up. But yeah, she actually was so weird. It was like a bunch of people from New York were on an LA show that I was doing, so I met a bunch of people that night for the first time. But she, yeah, she. Her videos on Instagram is how we first found her.

[Jake Shane]

She used to do like, she used to like go on Instagram live and pretend to be like a lunch lady.

[Paul Downs]

Her, her characters are so unhinged and they're so funny. And she had this thing that was like, like both really self assured but also a little bit bumbling. You know that like stuttery thing she do. You, you got to be, you got it. You got to be vacuuming the rug.

[Jake Shane]

You know what I mean?

[Paul Downs]

Like the way that she did that. And we were like, oh, that is right for the. This character who we were already writing to be super Nepo, right? Like super self assured, super rich, super Nepo, but also kind of bumbling. So the characters she was doing, they were like so kind of what we were envisioning that we were like, she's, I think, perfect for this. Then I met her on the standup show and I was like, she's next level. She did audition because it was her first thing and it was HBO and but in that first audition we were like, holy, this is going to be funny.

[Jake Shane]

Is she? I don't think anyone in the world has ever made me laugh as hard as she's made me laugh.

[Paul Downs]

I know, like really and truly so much.

[Jake Shane]

Do you. And I remember being on set and somebody, somebody saying like, oh, well, like you'll improvise. But when Paul and Meg improvised, like, they could go on forever. Like, did you guys just, like, have scenes where you would just go on forever and ever and ever until somebody had to be like, okay, enough.

[Paul Downs]

Lucy would be like, okay, enough. But. But we also. She's really good at improvising within the confines of the scene. Like, sometimes you see DVD extras and you're like, that was no wonder it's on the extras, you know, because it's, like, so nuts and it feels like a whole new scene. But she is really good at improvising within the lane of the character and. But we do improvise a lot, she and I.

[Jake Shane]

Do you have a favorite moment this season?

[Paul Downs]

Meg improvised, basically. There was a thing about how I rushed to fraternity, but I didn't ultimately get in because I wouldn't. A goat.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

She improvised. He would never. Any animals. And I was like, no, I wouldn't. But then I could not get the line out. And it was the kind of thing where I really. We were, like, limited on time. We had, like, five minutes. We had to finish, and I could not get through the line without laughing. And we were. Her line was done, but I just couldn't. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was the kind of thing where I would get. I would get through almost all of it. The last minute, it would sound so crazy. And, you know, it's. It was hard.

[Jake Shane]

My favorite is the bar, but her bat Mitzvah. Oh, yeah, she's not Jewish.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

She has, like. What'd she say again?

[Paul Downs]

She's like, what am I gonna do? Not everyone in my school is having one. What am I gonna not have one? Or whatever. And I was like, yeah, you're not Jewish. You're not gonna have one. Yeah. I don't remember.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, the finale.

[Paul Downs]

I think it's anti Semitic.

[Jake Shane]

You know, the finale has one of my favorite Meg moments of all time. When you guys come across the Latitude stage and she whips.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, my God.

[Jake Shane]

Was that improvised?

[Paul Downs]

Yes, that was all her.

[Jake Shane]

That was all her. I can always feel it when it's. When it's all her.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, yes, yes. I mean, the line. What's up, Latitude? New Era. Loading was in there, but. But she gave it. She gave the loading something. You know, she always brings something to it. It's like, so that's the best. And you did this too, when we, like, right, because we write a million alts. We write a lot of jokes. We want, like, a lot of jokes per minute, but when someone comes and elevates them and does a little something, even if it's a physical thing, we're like, yes, thank you. Getting out of the park, you know, because all we can do is set up, right. It's up to you to hit it out of the park, you know?

[Jake Shane]

What was the last day of set like?

[Paul Downs]

It was really. Well, it was crazy because we had a couple raps. We wrapped in Vegas for, like, America, and it was really sad. We, like, literally had a group hug with our 150 person crew and. And then we wrapped in Paris in the Louvre.

[Jake Shane]

Crazy.

[Paul Downs]

Crazy.

[Jake Shane]

You guys got that filming permit?

[Paul Downs]

I know.

[Jake Shane]

We were. What Me and my friend were watching yesterday, and we were like, are they inside the Louvre with no one else in there right now?

[Paul Downs]

It was open. So here was what was crazy. We went and scouted. We scouted because we were like, what is possible? And they were like, you can come on a day it's closed and do whatever. And we were like, okay, we're gonna write a huge, you know, section of the finale in the Louvre. We're gonna talk about female artists and how, like, they're not judged the same way men are. It's like, this is great for the show. This is a perfect place to do this. And then the heist happened.

[Jake Shane]

Stop.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, not while we were there. We didn't do anything. We weren't doing anything. But no, the heist happened. And they were like, sorry, no filming. We can't let you film. And we were like, hey, this was way after we had written it, table, read it, prepped it, you know, all

[Jake Shane]

of the concept of you fighting with the people at the Louvre over filming.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, it gets worse. So we were like, okay, we can't shoot there. We went to Versailles. We were like, can we make this work at Versailles? It didn't have. It's not. It's. It's more like a palace that you tour. It's not like a museum. Lots of different paintings that we could then discuss. We were like, okay, well, we'll try and make it work. And then the Louvre called, and they were like, you can't shoot when we're closed, but you can maybe shoot when we're open if we just bring 12 of you in, which is so hard, right? Even fathom. But we were like, we'll do it. So we call Versailles. We're like, we're not gonna come. They were pissed. They were like, where are you going? We were like, the Louvre. They were like. They were, like, really mad.

[Jake Shane]

Wait for, like, yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Well, so then, great, we're back in the Louvre. Then the Louvre goes on strike.

[Jake Shane]

What do you mean the Louvre goes on strike?

[Paul Downs]

The employees, like the union of employees that work there are like, we're on strike. So they're like, you can't come now.

[Jake Shane]

Europe is always on strike.

[Paul Downs]

They're always on strike. And we believe in unions. Unions, strong, but for sure.

[Jake Shane]

But when I was in Barcelona, I could not get anywhere because the taxi drivers were on strike.

[Paul Downs]

Well, when we were there, whatever, scouting, there was like a air traffic control strike. We couldn't leave. We stayed there. Always on strike. There's a lot of striking.

[Jake Shane]

Clearly it works.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, it's fine. Hey, it works for them. Yeah, if it's not broke, don't fix it. But we go back to Versailles. We're like, sorry, we can't go there now. And they were like, fuck off. They were like, you may never step foot in here. They were like, you want to go to the Louvre, you go to the Louvre. So we were then stuck. We had no place to shoot. And then the president of the Louvre resigned. So the strike ended and we were able to do it. It was crazy.

[Jake Shane]

What was your backup plan?

[Paul Downs]

We didn't have one. We didn't have one. But somehow things worked out, making the show. You know, we were just like, we had a lot of like our ad said, this is the most Snake Bit show I've ever worked on in my career. Just meaning. We had like so many weird things come up, but somehow it worked out. Knockwood.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, it. It did.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, it did work out.

[Jake Shane]

You're at the. You've crossed the finish line almost.

[Paul Downs]

But the end was really weird. It was 10 of us in the Louvre because we were there while it was open. But by the time we finish and we said, and that's a wrap, that's a series wrap on hacks. Everyone was gone. So it was just us in this museum. It was really crazy. It was really surreal and beautiful and emotional.

[Jake Shane]

Congratulations.

[Paul Downs]

Thank you. Thanks for being a part of it.

[Jake Shane]

I'm so, so beyond honored. It's. I got to be part of my favorite show on tv.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, that's so nice.

[Jake Shane]

Coolest thing in the entire world.

[Paul Downs]

Thank you. Well, you were perfect.

[Jake Shane]

Thank you.

[Paul Downs]

Yes. And now we're family.

[Jake Shane]

And we, by the way. Yeah, we are family.

[Paul Downs]

We are family.

[Jake Shane]

We are family. Because for those that don't know, Paul's sister in law is the head writer on my show.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, Genevieve. Literally family. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Crazy.

[Jake Shane]

And Paul, it's so funny, after Knowing Genevieve, I was just telling you this. I can hear her in the Hacks.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Show.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. She's been. She's done punch up and written on the show since season one.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. But I think there's a lot of her in it.

[Jake Shane]

Hannah's delivery. I'm like, that's Genevieve.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I'm like, I. I know. And I'm. And I'm usually right.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure.

[Jake Shane]

Always check after. I'm like, was I right?

[Paul Downs]

I'm usually right. I can't wait to hear it in your show.

[Jake Shane]

I'm so excited.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

It's going to be so fun. I feel like I have the best team in the entire world.

[Paul Downs]

I'm so seated, you know.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. That's so sat. Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Literally.

[Jake Shane]

Literally. She wants me. She goes, lol. I'm laughing.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I have been working on something for the past few months that I'm really excited to finally tell you guys about. As you know, my workout journey has not been easy, but it has been extremely fruitful. I have been basically living out of the Aloe Wellness Club in both Beverly Hills and New York City, and somebody who's really helped transform my body is Louie. So I'm super grateful to announce that I now have my own series, both with Louie and Bianca on the Alo Wellness Club app called the Shake and Train with Jake Shane series. There are two strength training workouts, both are 10 minutes each, and then there are two 10 minute Pilates classes. So you could conceivably do all four of them in a row for a 40 minute workout I had. So we filmed it on the Aloe yacht in the south of France. It was one of the most incredible experiences of my entire life. I remember it being really, really fun and really funny as well, because I remember I wanted. I wanted people to be able to laugh during the workouts because I feel like that's what made people gravitate towards my workout content in general. And I wanted to make sure that resonated in the series that I did with Alo as well as show off my progress and how far I've come. And also I travel a lot. Like a lot, a lot. And when I travel and I need to work out, I use the Alo Wellness Club app to work out because it is the same exact workout that I'll do at the gym. So it really kind of brings the Aloe Gym everywhere for you. Also, the great thing is, like, if you're in A time crunch. You can. You can still do only one of the four workouts and get a great 10 minute workout in because each of the workouts is super fulfilling. And like I. I do them all the time. I do those workouts all the time. And even if my series isn't your jam, which is so fine, there are over 4, 000 different classes on the Aloe Wellness Club app. From strength training to Pilates to yoga to bar to mat. You can find anything you need for a good workout on the Aloe Wellness Club app. I know I have, especially given that I've been all over the place lately. It's really helped me stay grounded, which I think is one thing that has been really important to my workouts, that it's helped me stay grounded. You know, I think at the end of the day, that's what's most important for me. And the best part about this all is that it's free. You can go to alo wellnessclub.com jake to download the app and start working out with me for free. No credit card, no subscription, no catch. That's alowellnessclub.com Jake. Thank you again, Alo, for doing this with me. It has been such a dream and I'm so proud of it and I hope you guys enjoy it. What's your favorite moment for from hacks. If you. Okay, well, that's a impossible question. What's a moment that comes to mind when I say favorite moment?

[Paul Downs]

There are a couple moments and they're really my favorite, partly because of the technical difficulty of doing them. One of them is the very last shot. The very last shot was really hard to do. And it was something. We had the song for, I think two or three seasons now. We've known that's the song. And in fact, because it's from a TV show, we were like, we need to clear it early because it might be really hard to clear. And also it's got two artists who, you know, could deny. Well, I mean, the estate of one and another one who might deny the use of it. So we were like, let's get that. But to make that work. And then the final shot happened. And also coordinating with two different casinos to have a fountain go off all of that to. To work that and that fountain on those notes.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Because the timing. We played the music as we did it.

[Jake Shane]

Oh.

[Paul Downs]

Because we had to get the timing right. And for the fountain to go off like that because you kind of can't be like now. You know what I mean? You have to be, like, three minutes before. Turn it on, warm it up. You know what I mean?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Just was a magical moment. It was like a pinch me moment that it worked. And the other one is in season one, our third day of shooting, we were in the desert. Deborah gets a flat tire, and she calls the local news station. She has her buddy pick her up in a helicopter to bring her back because she's got a residency, she's got a show every night. And she has this great monologue about how it doesn't get better, it gets harder, this career. And Gina's so good in that monologue. She's so good. It's like my favorite. One of my favorite performances. And as she says it, Hannah, or Hannah, Ava says, you're leaving me here in the desert. And she goes, yep. And the helicopter, because we had a real one, landed behind her in the exact right moment. And I was like, oh, my God, this is so. It was those two things that were. That were pulled off a. Because Lucia directed them beautifully and because Gene and Hannah acted them beautifully, but also because, I don't know, there was something in the air that helped, you know, just make it work.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. And you guys are, like. You guys are perfectionists.

[Paul Downs]

We are very exacting our catchphrases. We live for Tiny. We're really, really, really obsessed with Tiny. It means we're control freaks.

[Jake Shane]

But, you know, I remember when I. I think it was. It was the shot that I was in. It was the first episode I was in, and it was the shot. It was the oner from. From Jean's dressing room to when she goes on the stage and turns around. And I remember every single person had to be exact and precise. You shot that, like, 20 times.

[Paul Downs]

And that's intense. That. That's, like, your first episode, not your first day, right?

[Jake Shane]

No, that was not my first day.

[Paul Downs]

But still, to do a runner like that, it was so intimidating.

[Jake Shane]

But can I tell you, though, like, you guys like the. And I said this to Louise right after I got off. I was like, wow.

[Paul Downs]

The.

[Jake Shane]

Their set is, like, really, like, friendly, like everyone's friends. So, like, in between takes, when you guys were talking about it, we would just all hang out. It wasn't like. It wasn't like. And here we go again. It was, like, so fun. It was like. And it was. Meg would do a different thing. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Paul Downs]

I mean, we. You know, I think you can feel it in the work when it feels good. I think some people think you. It has to be painful, you know, in order for it to be good. But we. We do want it to be fun because that's like, the making is the thing, right? You know? And so it is important for us to, like, keep it fun and enjoy it. And of course, there, like, there's so much stress, and I think it seems like we're having more fun sometimes than we are, because at least Jen, Lucci and I are holding a lot of stress. You know what I mean? I'm always like, I'm making a dime with my butt here. I'm, like, clenching my ass the whole day.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

But we have to laugh and have fun. In fact, I've been going through all the photos, like, the BTS photos. We laughed so much. There was so much laughing on the set. It was really, you know, I know everyone says on a press tour, they're like, it was magical, but it was so magical. It was really.

[Jake Shane]

From the three days that I was there, it was pure magic.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Well, congratulations.

[Paul Downs]

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Paul.

[Jake Shane]

What are you therapist about today?

[Paul Downs]

I'm angry about AI.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Isn't everybody? No, not everybody. Most people are using ChatGPT and having a blast, but I'm angry about it.

[Jake Shane]

I it my shit up.

[Paul Downs]

It does. Your brain?

[Jake Shane]

I use it.

[Paul Downs]

Like brain?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Like. Well, because I have really bad ocd.

[Paul Downs]

Me, too.

[Jake Shane]

So.

[Paul Downs]

Do you really? Yeah. Diagnosed brother.

[Jake Shane]

What type of OCD do you have?

[Paul Downs]

Touching things.

[Jake Shane]

Me too. Yeah. That was my first. That was my first ritual when I was 7.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yeah. I have a lot of rituals.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I did not know that about you.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, you can't. It's really good that it's invisible to people, because to someone like Lucia, it's so apparent. You know, it used to be really bad. It used to be like, I would be like, I have to touch that manhole in the middle of the street, and it'd be like, traffic's going, and it's like, no, you don't. You don't need to touch that. You know? Or it also got bad when I'd be like, I have to touch that. The corner of that table at a restaurant, and it's not my table.

[Jake Shane]

Or you have to touch that, like, person. Oof. Like, I don't usually have a person.

[Paul Downs]

What was yours? What did you have to do?

[Jake Shane]

I would have to touch things evenly, and I'll never forget it. I watched this episode of Girls, and Hannah brushes past this person and has to go back and tap them again. And I was like, oh, my God. I Get it? Yep, I get it.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, totally. I would have to, like, crack. It started probably, like, cracking my knuckles on one hand. I'd have to do the other one.

[Jake Shane]

Yep.

[Paul Downs]

If I snapped, I had to snap it, you know, it was about, like, a balance thing.

[Jake Shane]

Are you on meds for it?

[Paul Downs]

No. Are you?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

300 milligrams.

[Paul Downs]

Wow. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And it works.

[Jake Shane]

I think that's.

[Paul Downs]

Does it work? Is it.

[Jake Shane]

It works when I don't smoke weed.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, interesting.

[Jake Shane]

So that's why I'm like, I think I need to.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I think I need to be off it.

[Paul Downs]

I can. Sometimes I have the compulsion not to have a compulsion, which I know sounds crazy.

[Jake Shane]

Wait. Because I know what you mean.

[Paul Downs]

Sometimes I'll be like, oh, my. Because it's almost like a good luck thing. Is that why you do it? Yes.

[Jake Shane]

It's magical thinking.

[Paul Downs]

Magical thinking. It's superstition. It's magical thinking. I used to do it, like, when I. Like, before a race, when I was swimming. I would have to, like, stretch a certain way, you know, I was. Yeah. I was a captain of my high school team.

[Jake Shane]

No way.

[Paul Downs]

I walked on in college for, like, two days and was like, no, this is D1. I cannot. You know.

[Jake Shane]

What'd you go to college again?

[Paul Downs]

I went to Duke.

[Jake Shane]

Okay.

[Paul Downs]

Right. So it was real deal. So even though I was. I was a good swimmer and I swam on club teams and in high school, I was not. I was not. I couldn't devote my life to it, you know, and in a very dorky way, I couldn't do. I couldn't do sketch or improv comedy if I did the team. Really.

[Jake Shane]

You can't balance.

[Paul Downs]

You have to do. Honestly, you're doing practice in the morning, practice at night. It's like, you know, you. You don't.

[Jake Shane]

Do you not do stand up anymore?

[Paul Downs]

I haven't in a long time because of. You know, because of the show. I do it occasionally. Like, Megal asked me to do her show, or, you know, like, I'll. I'll do it occasionally if there's. If someone's doing a XYZ Person and Friends, but I don't do it regularly. No. I haven't had time, really, to write material, so I'd be doing old material.

[Jake Shane]

Got it.

[Paul Downs]

You know, But I do miss it. I love doing it.

[Jake Shane]

I did it when I was in, like, seventh grade, and I've never had the courage to do it again.

[Paul Downs]

What?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

[Paul Downs]

How did you stand up? What that seventh grade is young.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. They put me at the. My parents put me at the Gotham Kids. No. Yes. And I.

[Paul Downs]

Well, you'd be great at it. I think you'd be perfect for it.

[Jake Shane]

I think. I think that's why I like Meg so much, because I like what she does.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. I like her version of, like, stream of consciousness.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Random core.

[Jake Shane]

That's what I would do, like, when I was on stage.

[Paul Downs]

You should do it. I think you'd be great.

[Jake Shane]

I just don't know how to write a joke.

[Paul Downs]

I know, stupid, but you tell them all the time.

[Jake Shane]

I know, but also, you could do

[Paul Downs]

the things you do, you know?

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Like you seeing Michelangelo's Statue of David. You could just do that in the show. You know what I mean?

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Because it's so funny.

[Jake Shane]

It's so hard to. I felt so burnt out by those skits towards the end of it. I think I must have done, like, 200.

[Paul Downs]

Well, that's how I first came to know your work.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Because, you know, they were. They were so funny and passed around and let you be like, have you seen this one? You know, so I got to get back. It's worth it.

[Jake Shane]

I got to get back.

[Paul Downs]

I think that is, like, a perfect little micro impression for stand up, you know?

[Jake Shane]

I know. I need to see Meg at the Largo.

[Paul Downs]

Yes.

[Jake Shane]

That's what I go together.

[Paul Downs]

Family trip.

[Jake Shane]

I would. Family trip.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Family trip and then Italian food. You guys are the most Italian people I know.

[Paul Downs]

We are very Italian. Yeah. I'm only half, but Lucia and Genevieve are 100%. Lucy was born there. She was born in Italy. She came to this country without a dollar to her name, without a word of English. She was one.

[Jake Shane]

Okay. I was about to say.

[Paul Downs]

I'm always like, lean into that. You gotta say that.

[Jake Shane]

I was gonna say, I did not know that.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was one, actually. And you know what? It's so funny. One of the reasons she came. This is a callback. One of the reasons she came to this country is her mom and dad. Her mom was born in America. Her dad was born in Italy. They went back to Italy. They won a bunch of money in Monte Carlo or something. When they were gambling, they decided to stay. They had her. And then her mother couldn't send photos back to her family in the States because the post office went on strike so much. And she's like, we got to go back. Strike this. I can't do the strikes.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And she also missed chocolate chips.

[Jake Shane]

Do they not have chocolate chips in Italy?

[Paul Downs]

I guess you had to break up chocolate to make chocolate chip cookies. I don't know. It was like a baking thing, so she really needed. She needed her desserts, you know, I get that.

[Jake Shane]

Do you guys ever miss the East Coast? Because Lucia and Genevieve are from Massachusetts and you're from New Jersey.

[Paul Downs]

You know, we go back enough that I don't miss it. I miss my family, but I'm not. I'm not going back to the humidity or the cold or. You know what I mean? I know it's like the weather is the reason, but it's. I don't miss it.

[Jake Shane]

I know.

[Paul Downs]

I love the people when I'm there, I love it. And when I go to New York, I'm like, this is great. It's a great place because I've lived there. I lived there for so long that it was a great place to be when I was young, doing comedy, because you really have to be tough. And now I'm too soft now. I'm like, I can't.

[Jake Shane]

You feel like you're softer now after being in the public eye?

[Paul Downs]

In some ways, yeah. In some ways, I am.

[Jake Shane]

Tell me.

[Paul Downs]

But I'm also softer in terms of, like, creature comforts. You know what I mean? Like having a yard, you know, and having, like, room to move around. Sorry, that's a brag. I do have a yard.

[Jake Shane]

Very nice yard.

[Paul Downs]

Well, thanks. But, you know, it's like, when you're in New York, it's great to be interacting with people, but you're, like, never not. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so loud. You're always touching people. You're in the subway. It's just like. And it's like, the energy. Everyone's like, I love the energy of New York. I'm like, it's possessed. The energy is possessed. People are in these villages, like, walking around like zombies. I'm like, it's. You know, I love New York, but I wouldn't want to live there. It's a great place to visit. Then after three days, I'm like. I'm hungover. I also eat and drink so much more there. I don't know what it is, but

[Jake Shane]

I'm like, you walk more.

[Paul Downs]

That's true. You can walk.

[Jake Shane]

I'm in a New York. I'm like, in a New York kick right now.

[Paul Downs]

Well, you could walk. You could walk. What is it, 40 minutes?

[Jake Shane]

I do. I do do that.

[Paul Downs]

No, you don't.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, I do. Well, when. I can't. Why? I have an injury right now. So I, like, can't work out and I, like, need to move my body or else I'll go insane. Well, like, walk to all the way down there.

[Paul Downs]

And it's good for your brain. Walking is really good for your brain. And your body is. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

New York energy is possessed. I've had so. Well, growing up, I had. I was unmedicated and had mental breakdowns every day. But, like, I don't have mental breakdowns here the way I had them in New York.

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Well, do you don't think it's the place?

[Jake Shane]

Well, it's weird though, because I feel so much more isolated here. And I will never forget my mom saying that to me. Like, because my parents are both from New York, but we. I was born in la, raised in New York, like, back and forth.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, I didn't know that. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

I lived in Los Feliz when I was one. Like, oh.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, wow.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. And I. My mom was like, I hate la. I'll never go back. It's the most isolating place in the world. And the example she uses is one time I threw up on the street after eating Abbott's pizza, and no one I like was projectile vomiting. Everyone in LA was just walking past, like, advocating, and she was like, if we were in New York, somebody would have asked if you were okay.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. I think that's right. I get that.

[Jake Shane]

And I was like, oh, I guess you're right. And I'll never unsee it now. Now I feel like when I feel lonely here, it's tenfold.

[Paul Downs]

That's okay. Well, I'm gonna counter it. Do you mind?

[Jake Shane]

Please?

[Paul Downs]

I don't want to give you rebuttal to your life, your lived experience.

[Jake Shane]

I beg of you to rebuttal, because I'm stuck here.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. When we first moved here, I would say the very first week we went to La Poubelle, we had a drink and a married couple tried to take us home. And I was like, okay, they're friendly here.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, wow.

[Paul Downs]

And then we were online at the grocery store and this woman turned around and overheard what we were saying and engaged in like a 20 minute conversation with us as we walked to our car. So I was like, people here were too friendly to me. In my experience. I was like, people are very. In a way that in New York, no one's at Gristedis turning around and being like, you know, I don't know, it just. It felt like a really different place.

[Jake Shane]

God, Gristeedis is the most insane callback I've ever heard of. My Entire. I don't. Like, literally, it's still there.

[Paul Downs]

Right. I don't even know.

[Jake Shane]

There's one in 86.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

And between Broadway and West End.

[Paul Downs]

This one was on 26 26th.

[Jake Shane]

They had a great candy aisle. They have a great candy aisle.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, you know what? Yes. There. I. That's right. There's one in the Village still, I think.

[Jake Shane]

And there's a. I wonder. Is key food still around?

[Paul Downs]

Must be. I don't know. I just went to. I always say the name wrong. What is it?

[Jake Shane]

Fairway.

[Paul Downs]

Cinderella.

[Jake Shane]

Cinderella.

[Paul Downs]

Cinderella.

[Jake Shane]

I was never a Cinderella guy. Really? I was a Bars.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, okay. Sure.

[Jake Shane]

SARS was across the street from my high school.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

So I would go there every day.

[Paul Downs]

I use the mug very often. Oh, I got the mug.

[Jake Shane]

The very famous mug.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. We shot Broad City in there.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, yeah. You did.

[Paul Downs]

You did. Yeah. God, that was iconic.

[Jake Shane]

That was iconic.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. That was fun.

[Jake Shane]

Talk about one of the best TV pilots of all time.

[Paul Downs]

Wow. You think so?

[Jake Shane]

I know so. We talk about it. Me, Genevieve, and Paul talk about it all the time.

[Paul Downs]

Wow, that's cool. Yeah, that's great.

[Jake Shane]

The simple act of just searching for money for a Little Wayne concert.

[Paul Downs]

That's right. They just need to get ticket money. That's right. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And it sets up the most. It sets up everything. You set up.

[Paul Downs]

Everything you set up, say, tiny missions.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Every episode was a tiny mission. And New York made every mission impossible. And that was a great guy, like,

[Jake Shane]

laughing, thinking about it. It's like the best show ever. Do you have a favorite Broad City moment?

[Paul Downs]

Louise?

[Jake Shane]

Oh, my God. It's like, her favorite show of all time. Okay, I've seen it.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, I didn't know that. Trey Solstice Bow. That's so nice. Oh, my gosh.

[Jake Shane]

Is that the same episode where you go to the ikea?

[Paul Downs]

No, no, that's Working Girls. That's Episode. Yeah, that's like the. The fourth episode or something. They go. Oh, wait a minute. No, Episode is. No. I was thinking of the one where they go to Costco. That's Working Girls. The one where they go to ikea, Abby gets a yellow hat and dates a girl for the first time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the yellow hat is a. You know, my favorite kangal hat. What?

[Jake Shane]

My favorite is when who loses their phone. Abby.

[Paul Downs]

Abby. Lost phone Abby.

[Jake Shane]

And the entire episode, she's searching for this phone.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And she finally finds it with this girl in, like, a froyo show.

[Paul Downs]

So funny, that girl. I remember that girl.

[Jake Shane]

Yes. She's hysterical.

[Paul Downs]

Where Is that girl.

[Jake Shane]

I don't know.

[Paul Downs]

She was really good.

[Jake Shane]

She. And she was like, oh, my God, I need to. I'm gonna see now. I want to get high and watch Broad City.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, well, you can do that. That's safe.

[Jake Shane]

I know.

[Paul Downs]

Watching broadcast, safe.

[Jake Shane]

It's the safest.

[Paul Downs]

You're not going to have an outof body experience like that.

[Jake Shane]

Did you take anything you learned from filming Broad City with you into hacks?

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yeah. And, you know, Abby, Alana, Jen, Luchi, and I all came from that, like, UCB improv sketch comedy scene.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, it's a small scene. You guys all know each other.

[Paul Downs]

It is a really small scene. It's a very small world. And I. You know, I think Abby and Alana started Broad City as a web series around the same time Luchi and I were making YouTube videos because that's how we all started. We, like, taught ourselves how to edit. We, like, did all. We held the boom mic. You know what I mean? Like, we did. We just, like, fake it till you make it. And the reason we did that is because it was hard at the time. It was like, there was a lot of. Even though it was a small scene, a lot of people wanted to be on the main stage, and it was hard to get stage time. And so we all kind of did stuff outside of the system a little bit. And I ended up being in the web series, and Lucia directed some of the web series. Um, and so it led to us, you know, doing the show. And I think a lot of what we learned doing improv, like, the idea of. Yes. And the. The idea of, like, agreement. The idea of a mistake being something that can be woven in and actually making the thing better. A lot of that we still use now. Another thing we. We learned and we tried to do in Broad City and we tried to do in hacks, is that while every scene should, like, serve the story and tell the story, it should also have a comedic game. So there should be something else happening that's funny and repeatable, a pattern you can repeat, and that's like a improv 101 thing. And so I don't think everybody who writes necessarily has that exact way in, but it's something that we have always done and only recently were we. They're doing a. Matt Walsh is doing a book about ucb. Can I say that? I don't know, like, a oral history of it. And so we were talking to him about it. We were like, oh, yeah, we actually do use a lot of, like, those tenets of Improv in our everyday life and in the making of the show now. And in. In. In Broad City was really scrappy. You know, it was like low budget Comedy Central show. They like, let people who had never. I talk about people who've never been on tv. We never written tv. None of us. Chris Kelly was in the room and he had done some snl, but none of us had written narrative tv. They let us figure it out. And we kind of had to just push through insecurity and. And doubt and just do it. And we still do that, you know, that we're like, can we. Can we get in the Louvre? You know, and you just have to push through and be like, we're gonna do it. We'll figure it out.

[Jake Shane]

Like, are you susceptible to, like, critical reception of your work? Like, do you feel, like, impacted when someone doesn't like your stuff? Or are you confident enough in it that you're like, I don't care.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, I'll say this.

[Jake Shane]

I.

[Paul Downs]

Feedback about the work. Like, reviews make their way to me when, honestly, when they're really good because I don't read them, but other people do. And if someone's like, hey, they saw something in the show that I didn't even see or. This was a really insightful piece of writing about the show. I will read it because I'm so appreciative of people's take on it. And it does make you feel very seen if they get it or if they get something out of it that you didn't even realize was a part of the work. So I do appreciate, like, good writing about work, but for me, it's more about output than input. Because, you know, the one bad thing. It's same with like a comment or a tweet. Like, the one bad thing will kill you.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

You know what I mean? And it will stay in your brain. And I just try to let it be putting the workout and then not. Because that's the thing. If you like, if you get like a big ego because you're hearing all the good things, you have to also take into account the bad things, you know, and that's unpleasant.

[Jake Shane]

It's so unpleasant.

[Paul Downs]

And hey, criticism of work is really important because people find it that way. It's like a really important part of the process.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

And yet everybody's a critic now, you know, and it's. It's so. It's.

[Jake Shane]

That's the issue. Everyone's a critic.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Of everything.

[Jake Shane]

Of everything.

[Paul Downs]

Of like, you know, if you're. If you're on. If you're on social media, of how you look. You know what I mean? People are critics of everything.

[Jake Shane]

I would so much rather someone be so nasty about what I look like than how if I. If I'm unfunny. Oh, I think.

[Paul Downs]

And it's like, the only thing that I think one can be more vain about than their looks is, like, if they're a comedian, is how funny they are.

[Jake Shane]

Well, a piece of work, the Joan Rivers dog, she says she's like, comedians are the most insecure people on the planet.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Because you just want someone to laugh. You're like, laugh with me. Laugh at me. Just laugh.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, yes.

[Jake Shane]

You know, I see so much of that documentary in hacks. Do you guys watch that?

[Paul Downs]

100%. We did watch it. And Rachel Hamilton, who was a great improviser and a coach of ours, was a producer of it. And what was really fascinating and one of the reasons we wanted to make the show was at the time, there were people who were not that much younger than us, pretty much our generation, some of whom who had known Joan Rivers to just be, like, an E. News correspondent. What they were like, she's a fashion correspondent. They didn't know that she almost hosted. Hosted the Tonight Show.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

They didn't know that she got blackballed. Yeah. So that did definitely impact us because we were like, can you imagine being somebody who doesn't know, like, the path she paved for comedians, especially women in comedy? So that was like a big. A big factor in just us being like, oh, no. This is. This is telling the story of someone whose story has not been told because nobody cared to listen to is. Is the reason we have to make this show.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. I would say that it's one of the more moving pieces of comedy I've ever seen.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. It's so good. Yeah, it's so good. And there's a lot of Joan and Deborah.

[Jake Shane]

I see so much of Joe Deborah, because Joan was, like, my idol growing up.

[Paul Downs]

Really?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. I loved her. I loved her. She was just relentless.

[Paul Downs]

Have you read her books now?

[Jake Shane]

I. I don't.

[Paul Downs]

You should. Well, you can get the. You know.

[Jake Shane]

Holy. That was so painful.

[Paul Downs]

No, no, it's okay. It's okay. This is a safe space.

[Jake Shane]

That was. It's actually. You know what? It's funny you say that. This is a safe space. It's not, but it's okay.

[Paul Downs]

Not everybody reads.

[Jake Shane]

This episode of Therapist is brought to you by booking.combooking.

[Paul Downs]

yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I was looking at photos from Vegas the other day with all My friends, which we booked on booking.com because it is the easiest place to book any type of group travel or any travel in general. And I was like, I really want to go on a group trip soon. So then I started thinking about Labor Day, which led me down a booking.com rabbit hole, which I find myself on very frequently to search for places to plan a Labor Day vacation. Because the only way my a trip in my friend group is happening is if we use booking.com because it accommodates every single person's needs and finds us a place that is perfect for that. Because as we, we like to say, like as long as we have a roof over our head, we can basically do anything. Booking.com gets that sorted for us. So we can plan the rest of the trip. Like it takes the hardest part of the trip planning away so we can then plan the rest of the trip. Also my friend group, as you can imagine is like very like everyone has a different opinion on where they want to stay. Everyone has a different opinion on what they need. And so booking.com is able to consolidate all of that and find us the best place possible to stay for a vacation. And it also has incredible rates. Like it has places we might not have found before. Like booking.com just is our go to. I mean, as you guys know, I use it on tour all the time. We would pull up to a city, no hotel in sight, and Matt would book on booking.com and he would find the perfect hotel every time. You know, there's so many hotel options in Vegas and it's sometimes just hard to pick one. And booking.com really helps like narrow down the facts of what, what each hotel has so it makes it easier for us to end up deciding on one. We're a very indecisive group and booking.com helps us become more decisive. Go on, book that trip. It's easy. Booking.com booking. Yeah. Should we do the tell me what's wrongs? You don't know what they tell me what's wrongs are. Let me tell you what they tell me. What's wrongs are. The write in and they tell us what's wrong.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

And we.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, I've seen. Yes, I know. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

I forgot my husband and I fifth year anniversary. There's like seven eyes. I feel horrible and he's been so sweet telling me how truly okay it is, but I don't believe him for a second. Especially since we've helped each other be more intentional, thoughtful people.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

They're in couples.

[Paul Downs]

They're in couples. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Right. Wait, what'd you say?

[Paul Downs]

They're in couples therapy?

[Jake Shane]

Maybe. Oh.

[Paul Downs]

It seems intentional. I know. She's using words. I. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

How. How. How do I make this up to him? Please. I'm too guilty to think of anything cute. I forget my dad's birthday every year.

[Paul Downs]

You do?

[Jake Shane]

Every year.

[Paul Downs]

You know, it's hard. They. You know, it's hard. Keeping track of dates is really hard. Especially if you have add. I don't know if you do, but I do. I do, too. What does she do?

[Jake Shane]

We're very similar.

[Paul Downs]

I know.

[Jake Shane]

We're Scorpios from the tri state area with OCD and add.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Twin flames, right? A little bit, yeah. What does she do? I. I think it's forgivable to miss an anniversary. I guess he must not have missed it. He must have done something really nice for her.

[Jake Shane]

Right?

[Paul Downs]

I would just say you got to pamper him. You got to treat him well. What does he really like? What does he really like? That he doesn't get a lot.

[Jake Shane]

Right. You know, I'm picking up.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. Well, I'm putting down. Yeah. I don't know. I don't.

[Jake Shane]

Do something.

[Paul Downs]

Do something nice.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, he clearly doesn't give that

[Paul Downs]

much of a. I don't think he's gonna divorce you because of that.

[Jake Shane]

Right. It's okay to miss a fifth anniversary. Well, I'd be so mad.

[Paul Downs]

I guess fifth is like a nice round number.

[Jake Shane]

But I'd be so mad. My husband miss my anniversary. Oh, I would never let him forget it.

[Paul Downs]

So funny. I wouldn't care.

[Jake Shane]

Really. Well, that's because you're in real love.

[Paul Downs]

Is that why? Because the love is real. The love is real.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Yeah. Your husband is so in love with you, he could get less of a shit.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Don't worry about it. It's okay. I think. Don't. Just move forward. Move forward. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I have a severe spending problem.

[Paul Downs]

Shit. I feel I might not be able to help. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

No, I have the worst. It's really out of control.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, I'm very frugal.

[Jake Shane]

Oh. I used to be.

[Paul Downs]

I don't like to spend. I don't understand. And yet you leave the house. It's a hundred dollars. Don't you find this?

[Jake Shane]

I have like, a. Like, lately, like, I've been, like. Clothes have been my thing.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Anything.

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Well. Passionisto. Yeah, I know. I'm seeing you at Dior. We were just.

[Jake Shane]

We hung out all night at Dior.

[Paul Downs]

No, that was fun.

[Jake Shane]

Very fun, very Hollywood.

[Paul Downs]

Very Hollywood.

[Jake Shane]

Very cool.

[Paul Downs]

We made it.

[Jake Shane]

I have a severe spending problem. I'm in college and have to pay for school and want to save all the important and want to save for all the important things in my life like a wedding and buying a home. But I just.

[Paul Downs]

Interesting. Very heteronormative. Okay, but we don't know what kind of wedding. Maybe it's same sex wedding. We don't know.

[Jake Shane]

But that is a good point.

[Paul Downs]

It's interesting. Okay, sorry. Sorry to. Sorry to editorialize.

[Jake Shane]

No, editorialize away. Okay, but I just can't stop spending money on materialistic items like clothes, shoes and so much more. I just don't know how to stop and actually save my money. Please help.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, well you can't take it with you. And I think if it brings you joy, do it. You got to be responsible. But I think just go for it. I don't know. And she wants help though to say

[Jake Shane]

to save my idea is like if you're saving all this money for a wedding and then you're not buying the things you actually want to buy in real time, then the wedding is going to be far less enjoyable because the pressure on it will be so much higher.

[Paul Downs]

That's so true.

[Jake Shane]

For so long.

[Paul Downs]

And the wedding is one night.

[Jake Shane]

I give low key good advice.

[Paul Downs]

That's really good advice. It's not low key. That's high key. That's good.

[Jake Shane]

Thank you.

[Paul Downs]

I think if you, if you put it all on the wedding, not only is there a lot of pressure, but it's one night.

[Jake Shane]

Right?

[Paul Downs]

It's one night. Yeah, you're gonna photos, but how often are you gonna look at the photos? But you want to buy that pair of shoes. Think about cost per wear.

[Jake Shane]

Well that's my cost per wear. I would so much rather spend money on something I'd wear every day or can sell in the future.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, like you know, I gotta get your grailed link. Your private grilled link.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, right. God, grilled.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Oh no, I know what I'm doing this afternoon. I forgot that website existed.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, you're kidding. No, I literally, I do a lot of. Actually you know what's a good hack gem? G E M. It searches like if you want to search something, it searches grailed, depop, ebay, etsy, it searches like all these like resale sites.

[Jake Shane]

Uh huh.

[Paul Downs]

So you can find the thing you want.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, I would prescribe Confessions of a shopaholic.

[Paul Downs]

The best movie of all time for this person.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, that's pretty good.

[Jake Shane]

Oh my God.

[Paul Downs]

She.

[Jake Shane]

Have you seen that movie where she puts the credit card in the freezer and the ice and she.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, that's good.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. She's in the kitchen, like, slamming on the. It's the best move. It's the. What is it? The Green Scarf. The green scarf, Yeah. I am cultured.

[Paul Downs]

You are. You don't need to read a freaking book. Yeah, no, Just rewatch hacks don't read anything.

[Jake Shane]

What's your. What was your. Your season? You're most proud of this one. This one? Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

I think the final season is the best season. I mean, season one was great because it was new and we got to make it. You know, there were so many things about it that were great, but I don't know. I think this season. But it's also hard to choose. Yeah, it is.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, my fate. I think my favorite moment, and I'm sure others would agree with me in the entire show, is I would. Wouldn't you?

[Paul Downs]

So not. Not a Jimmy Kayla moment. Okay, that's fine.

[Jake Shane]

Well, my favorite Jimmy Kayla moment.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, okay.

[Jake Shane]

Is I told you the bat Mitzvah.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yes. That was fun.

[Jake Shane]

When she wears the lingerie in the hotel room.

[Paul Downs]

Classic.

[Jake Shane]

Or when I love you.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, my God. You got this, bitch.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, my God, she's funny. Yes. No, I. I would. Wouldn't you. That was really fun.

[Jake Shane]

Was that scripted, that whole.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, that was scripted. And we figured that out, I think, on day one of that seat, because we knew that we were getting to her. Getting the show and then not getting the late night thing, but then. Or not getting the head writer job. But I think it was day one of the writers room that we were like, she takes it so baller. So it was really fun.

[Jake Shane]

So I like Ava, too.

[Paul Downs]

I know, But. But so like, Deborah.

[Jake Shane]

So, like. Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And Deborah gave her these lessons. Yeah, that was a fun. And that was actually the first day back from the strike. Oh, we went on strike. And, you know, the industry went on strike. And then our first day back was that. Which was like, such a big scene. And I think even Hannah was like, geez, I have to do this, like, huge scene right now. And it's interesting. Like, in the moment sometimes you're like, I don't think we knew even in the moment how great that would feel until we watched the edit and we were like, that feels so good.

[Jake Shane]

I'll never forget. I was literally sitting on my couch over there with all my friends, and we were like, we just witnessed great television.

[Paul Downs]

Wow, that's cool. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

We just Witnessed great television. Then you want to Nami for it.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. That was cool.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Well, thanks for. Thanks for group watching it. That's nice.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, we. I always group watch hacks.

[Paul Downs]

Really?

[Jake Shane]

All my friends watch it.

[Paul Downs]

Everyone watches.

[Jake Shane]

Everyone watches hacks.

[Paul Downs]

So did you watch the finale with people?

[Jake Shane]

I watched it with my best friend Charlie last night.

[Paul Downs]

That's great. Oh, I know Charlie.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

That's cool.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, my God. You better.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Yes. I totally forgot about this. We watched it last night.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, good.

[Jake Shane]

And we were like, damn. I mean, that's. Yeah. This. I cried when they were dancing in the club.

[Paul Downs]

That's when Lucia is most impacted.

[Jake Shane]

I don't know why me.

[Paul Downs]

It's the. It's the church right after that that I'm like, a mess.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. When she lights the candle.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. And also when that song. There's that lyric true Love that comes in in that song, and I'm like, oh, it just really gets me. It's when. When Ava's accepting what happens. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And it's like also when Deborah goes to write a joke, realizing she wants to live. Oh, my God. Like.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And then Charlie looks at me and goes, oh, she doesn't want to die.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

She goes to write the joke.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And in that moment, I saw Joan Rivers.

[Paul Downs]

Ah.

[Jake Shane]

In that moment, I saw Joan with her book, because Joan talks about her. Her book, and she. In the. In her documentary, A Piece of Work, she points to an empty page and she goes, this.

[Paul Downs]

This is the scariest thing.

[Jake Shane]

The scariest thing on planet Earth. Yeah. And in that moment when Gene goes to write the joke and she realizes that she's not. She's dying. Charlie's like, oh, she's gonna live. I mean. I mean, there's also so much money to like, I'm gonna kill myself.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And she's like, you say you want to kill yourself all the time. And Hannah's like, I don't mean it.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Yeah. She. She doesn't want to kill herself. She just wants to die.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

You know, my first ever research paper in eighth grade was on euthanasia.

[Paul Downs]

You're kidding.

[Jake Shane]

Swear.

[Paul Downs]

Really?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Love it.

[Paul Downs]

Wow. Love it, love it.

[Jake Shane]

I do. It's great. Charlie and I were like, yeah, that's the right.

[Paul Downs]

Well, this is like a talk about a tone shift. But I am like, it does feel like the thing in hacks you would. We would. We would investigate is like, this right to life thing and, like, dying with dignity. And it feels like Ava would so be on the side of. Yeah. You should be able to end your life. Yeah. Except when it comes to someone you love. It's so hard to walk the walk when it comes to someone you love, you know?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Because that would be something that Ava would be like, this is great. And Deborah would be like, no.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. So interesting. But Deborah loves control.

[Jake Shane]

She does.

[Paul Downs]

Control freak. Yes. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

You know who made me crack the up during my episode was. What's her name? She was the. The HR person that was required.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, my gosh. Michaela Watkins.

[Jake Shane]

The funniest person I've ever.

[Paul Downs]

So funny. Did you not know her before that?

[Jake Shane]

No, I knew her.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. She's so funny.

[Jake Shane]

But she kept. Every single time she would do something different, and it was just like, same with Meg.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

She could really in the one. Or Meg would go raw.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Jake Shane]

God.

[Paul Downs]

So I'm gonna miss it.

[Jake Shane]

I know. But I'm so excited to see what you come up with next.

[Paul Downs]

Me too. Me too.

[Jake Shane]

Very excited.

[Paul Downs]

Well, and I can't wait to see you. I need your show to come out, like, tomorrow.

[Jake Shane]

Tomorrow.

[Paul Downs]

I do need it. Today's the last day of hacks. I need tomorrow. I need you to hurry up.

[Jake Shane]

I'm so excited to just take what I've learned from, like, a set, like, hacks and bring that to the set. Genevieve, Paul.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Alec, Amy and I are going to create.

[Paul Downs]

It's going to.

[Jake Shane]

I was like, oh, my God. Everyone's friends on this set. Yeah, everyone. Everyone. Hannah was friends with everything. Like, I was watching Hannah like a hawk my first day. Yeah. She knew every single person. Everyone was best friends.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Honestly, you should use that crew. That crew is the best. So is that how that works? Well, yeah. I mean, like. Like, if you hire a department head, usually they hire a lot of the same people. And our. All the departments were so not only talented, but so devoted and good and cared so much and also were good people. We were. It was like lightning in a bottle that we got, like decent good people, you know?

[Jake Shane]

And you. Well, so you pitched it in 2019 and you shot it in 2021.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Are you shot? We started in 2020. Shut up. Yeah, it was. Oh, it was pre pandemic. It was pre, pre vaccine pandemic. So we wore two masks and a shield. Jean used to be like, what she like, honey, I can't hear you because we're talking through a shield and two masks. It was crazy. And if somebody had tested positive for Covid, anyone they interacted with for, like, two weeks before that also had to then take, like, Two weeks off. It was a crazy way to talk

[Jake Shane]

about misery in New York. I was in New York for the past.

[Paul Downs]

That's really rough. That's really rough.

[Jake Shane]

Doesn't even cover it.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I was sharing a room with my brother.

[Paul Downs]

Wow.

[Jake Shane]

I would be on Facebook till 3am every single night. My brother would say, shut the fuck up. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm 20 years old, I'm in a room with my brother, and I leave the house every day with gloves. Gloves and two masks.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And this must be hell.

[Paul Downs]

Well, especially in New York, it feels like, I don't know, at least here there was, like, a little bit more space in nature.

[Jake Shane]

I flew back. I ended up coming back here.

[Paul Downs]

You did?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Yeah. And I started working, and I was like, okay, whatever.

[Paul Downs]

And is that when you started, like, doing more videos?

[Jake Shane]

I started doing videos when the place I was working for was like, you need to finish college before you start with us full time.

[Paul Downs]

Oh.

[Jake Shane]

And then I started making videos.

[Paul Downs]

Cool.

[Jake Shane]

And I was literally just reviewing Octopus with my best friend.

[Paul Downs]

Yes.

[Jake Shane]

And that was. And then the skit started and everything just kind of like, after that.

[Paul Downs]

Wow. I know.

[Jake Shane]

Now we're on therapists.

[Paul Downs]

Love it.

[Jake Shane]

I fear I've been labeled the pretentious one of the friend group.

[Paul Downs]

Oh.

[Jake Shane]

Oh. This gives me the ick for myself. Like, it's not my fault. I like good TV shows and music. I don't even go around flaunting this. I almost feel like my group might be projecting insecurities. They are.

[Paul Downs]

Absolutely.

[Jake Shane]

Now, my question is, was that pretentious? I really need a reality check.

[Paul Downs]

No, absolutely not.

[Jake Shane]

I. I don't think you're pretentious at all.

[Paul Downs]

No. In fact, I think you need. I think we. One should own the. The term pretentious and the term snob. What does snob mean? It means you care about things, and you care about things that are good, and it doesn't. There's a difference between, though, like, being pretentious for the sake of being pretentious. But if you love it, I fall into that sometimes. Oh. It's hard to avoid.

[Jake Shane]

It's very.

[Paul Downs]

That's okay. Yeah, that's okay.

[Jake Shane]

Like, mama loves the label.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. Right, right, right. Yes. You have to. That's the thing. You can't just love the label. You got to also love the thing.

[Jake Shane]

That's what Louise tells me every day.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, but that's Right. But guess what? If you. Like, there is. Some people argue there's no difference between a. A $3 bottle of wine and a $300 bottle, and it's like, no, there is actually. There is. The way that it's made, the way that it's processed, the way that it tastes, it is different. So I think if you are someone who likes something like that, that's okay. Don't be. Don't be ashamed of that. Yes. You know, as long as you're not doing it for, like, oh, I like this because this is the cool thing to like. Like, don't curate in that way. You got to be authentic to what you like. If you're authentically you and you're authentically a snob, it's okay. Just live with that.

[Jake Shane]

The only place that I am authentically a snob is television. I know good TV. I've seen enough TV where I know good television.

[Paul Downs]

I can put in 10,000 hours, you know?

[Jake Shane]

Yes, exactly.

[Paul Downs]

You're an expert.

[Jake Shane]

It's so funny you say 10,000 hours. The place I used to work at was called 10K Projects.

[Paul Downs]

Really?

[Jake Shane]

Because of the 10,000 hour?

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Yeah. Well, I'm the same way. I care about good TV and good movies, but it doesn't mean it has to be one that's, like, critically acclaimed.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

You know what I mean? I can just like, this is really good. There are certain things that have been canceled after a season that I'm like, that was so good.

[Jake Shane]

What do you think you have?

[Paul Downs]

I thought English Teacher was really good. English Teacher was great and had two seasons, but I thought that was really good.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, talk about one of the funniest moments in television history when I don't know her name, but do you remember when they're talking about Stonehead on the school bus?

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Have you seen this? No, but I've heard it's really good. She goes. They go. They go, and who's. The. Who is she? And she says, everyone, do you know what I'm talking about? Is one of the funniest line deliveries of all time.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, it is good. There's so many great shows that just, you know, either don't. I don't know why, but they don't continue.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, my God. You want to know what I'm thinking of? Is the oa.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, yeah. I didn't see the oa.

[Jake Shane]

Holy.

[Paul Downs]

I can't make a judgment on it.

[Jake Shane]

It is fantastic.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

It's the same person who did Murder at the End of the World or Murder at the. Whatever it's called.

[Paul Downs]

She's. She is fantastic. I really like her.

[Jake Shane]

She's in and she stars in the OA.

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

first you're watching. You're like, what the is going on? And then by the end of it, you're so invested and you're so moved by it. It's just excellent.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

And I love television. Like, Ben's Time.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, really?

[Jake Shane]

It's my favorite.

[Paul Downs]

Have you seen Time Traveling Bong?

[Jake Shane]

No.

[Paul Downs]

You're kidding me.

[Jake Shane]

What's Time Traveling Bong?

[Paul Downs]

It's a prestige miniseries about me and Alana Glaser smoking a bong that brings us back in time. You have to watch it. We also go to the future, and I think that we sadly predicted that Trump would be president. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Really?

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Like an idiocracy, kind of.

[Paul Downs]

Basically. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

I mean, we weren't the first, but. Yes.

[Jake Shane]

But anyway, how did you guys, like, what happens that you do? You predict that Trump.

[Paul Downs]

We go to the future, and essentially, I think because of Citizens United, what happens in the future is that we have been. Because of our debt to China, we're basically, like, subsumed. And so it's like, America has become China kind of. And, you know, the environment. There's a lot of environmental.

[Jake Shane]

So were you a stoner?

[Paul Downs]

Was I a stoner? I did smoke weed in college, and after. I. I don't know that I would say that I was a stoner, though. I wasn't like. Like, I think Ilana would. Would proudly claim that she's a stoner. I don't know if I would say I was a stoner. I would say that I was a, you know, a weed smoker, but not a stoner.

[Jake Shane]

I think I. I think I have been a stoner.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

And I think. And my hot take is, in 20 years, people will talk about it the same as alcoholism. Alcoholism.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, you think?

[Jake Shane]

I. I think so.

[Paul Downs]

I think it's way less dangerous than alcoholism.

[Jake Shane]

Very, very much dangerous, but it's really addicting.

[Paul Downs]

You think?

[Jake Shane]

I know so.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Like, I know so because I feel it, like, when I, like, had to stop. When I stopped smoking for nine months, that first week, I was irritable. I was miserable. I was, like, sweating.

[Paul Downs]

I couldn't sleep.

[Jake Shane]

Like, I was going through, like, real withdrawals.

[Paul Downs]

Is that because you smoke a lot?

[Jake Shane]

I smoke. I. Right now I smoke every single day.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. So that's. That's frequent.

[Jake Shane]

And every day I say I'm gonna stop. But, like, literally talking to you right now, I'm like, I'm definitely gonna smoke after this.

[Paul Downs]

I think that's okay. I don't know. I think it's different than. It's certainly different than drinking.

[Jake Shane]

It's way different than drinking because I'm present and in my body sometimes.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. And you can. Yeah, you can function if you. Even if you've had a lot, right? Or no. Can you function?

[Jake Shane]

Okay, Can I say something? I just realized.

[Paul Downs]

Please.

[Jake Shane]

This might be one of my favorite therapist episodes I've ever recorded.

[Paul Downs]

Don't cut that.

[Jake Shane]

I'm not. I really. I feel so locked in with you right now.

[Paul Downs]

Ditto. Yeah, I do feel very connected to you. And I mean that. I'm like, it's so. It's so heartwarming to me that, like, literally, I know it's weird to be like, you're part of the family because you're working with my sister in law because you're on Hacks, but you are.

[Jake Shane]

I feel so honored every time you say that. I feel so cool.

[Paul Downs]

It's literally true. Anyway, yeah, I gave up coffee, you know, and it was when I couldn't drive. When did you drive? I gave up coffee last summer for a couple weeks. I was doing blood work, and this is tmi. I was doing blood work and my doctor was like, don't have this before. And he's like, actually, if you can have. If you not have coffee and a couple other things before for a while, that's good. Two weeks would be great. The first day and the second day, I could not drive.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

The headache was so bad, I was like, this is crazy. So I stayed off coffee for like the whole summer because I was like, I can never. This. This is me up so much. I don't think I can ever go back. And then my friend was like, oh, my dad gave up coffee for like 30 years, but he went back on. And I was like, oh, what was his experience? And she was like, he said he was tired for 30 years. And I was like, what? Yeah, I was like, all right, I'm not doing that.

[Jake Shane]

And I'm already tired, like all the time. I'm tired every moment, every single day, I'm tired.

[Paul Downs]

I could fall asleep right here. I could fall asleep on the ground right here.

[Jake Shane]

Always. Yeah. I walk into the gym, they go, are you tired?

[Paul Downs]

Yes. Me too.

[Jake Shane]

Yes.

[Paul Downs]

I know. I know. What is that?

[Jake Shane]

It's just like life.

[Paul Downs]

It's just life. Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

It's like, probably gluten.

[Paul Downs]

You think gluten?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. When I think it's.

[Paul Downs]

I don't know. I am like, I don't know. I don't need a lot of gluten. That's why I'm saying I don't know.

[Jake Shane]

Hi, Jake. You're looking so ripped and fabulous these days. Thank you. Just wanted to note that I need advice.

[Paul Downs]

Oh.

[Jake Shane]

So is that separate? I live in North Carolina right now, but I've always wanted to live in New York, and my lease ends in three months.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

Oh, my God. So I'm so obsessed with the fact that, like, the rip thing was so separate from the other questions. So thank you so much.

[Paul Downs]

I know, that's sweet, but I've always

[Jake Shane]

wanted to live in New York.

[Paul Downs]

Could have been cut out, but I'm glad we didn't. I'm glad we kept it.

[Jake Shane]

We're gonna keep that one.

[Paul Downs]

That's good producing, huh?

[Jake Shane]

Well, that's it, Nolan. But I've always wanted to live in New York, and my lease ends in three months. I hate my job. I want to quit so bad. My issue is that my boyfriend lives here and some of his. My best friends from college. I am so sad already at the thought of leaving them, but don't want to put off my dream of living there. What should I do?

[Paul Downs]

You gotta go.

[Jake Shane]

I think you gotta go, too.

[Paul Downs]

Gotta go.

[Jake Shane]

You gotta go. Listen to Breakaway by Kelly Clarkson.

[Paul Downs]

Perfect. Listen to Breakaway. Get in the car. Go. I mean, of course it's sad. Endings are sad. Saying goodbye is sad, but you got to push through that, you know? And especially, I think if it's a dream of yours, you should absolutely do it. And it's better to do now than to do it later.

[Jake Shane]

I mean, imagine being like, what if.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, you can't. Also, you might imagine trying to do it when you're 50 again. I. I'm sorry. It's too hard.

[Jake Shane]

And New York isn't a hard place to make friends, I would say.

[Paul Downs]

I think it's actually. It is way easier to be connected to people because you don't want to. Honestly, you don't want to be in your apartment.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

Unless you, like, have. Unless you're super rich and have an amazing apartment. I'm like, you want to be out because everything's a tissue box. Everything is so tiny.

[Jake Shane]

And everyone wants to make friends in New York.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I've made so many random friends on a night out.

[Paul Downs]

Totally. I do think irl, like, meeting people is so much easier.

[Jake Shane]

It is in la. In la, it's almost impossible. If you were telling me you were moving to la, I'd be like, okay, I get your anxiety, right?

[Paul Downs]

It is. It can be hard.

[Jake Shane]

I'm thinking about starting a podcast. Well, me and my Co worker.

[Paul Downs]

I'm here doing research.

[Jake Shane]

Me and my co worker who want to do it are stuck between two topics. One is just us hanging out, but we don't want to do that without an audience already. Two is a TV show review slash walkthrough watch through pod. But that also seems a little broad. Any advice from me and amazing guests? Of course.

[Paul Downs]

Okay.

[Jake Shane]

My advice would be to go into it with zero expectations.

[Paul Downs]

That's good.

[Jake Shane]

Like, my manager told me, like, you don't expect to see any growth for two years. So I didn't. And then I was happily surprised when I did.

[Paul Downs]

Okay. That's good.

[Jake Shane]

And you kind of just have to, like. I don't know. I would clip it. Mm. This is, like, actual advice. I would clip it, and I would not expect to see any type of growth for, like, at least 20, 30 episodes. Like, really build a community.

[Paul Downs]

Now, do you think in terms of the question about should it be a rewatch? Like, do you think this person needs an in, like, a hook? Or is it just, like, you can just talk to you a little? Okay.

[Jake Shane]

I think there's too many of just talking.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

I think you need, like, an. Something to anchor you down.

[Paul Downs]

Right.

[Jake Shane]

So for this podcast, it was this.

[Paul Downs]

Right.

[Jake Shane]

The Tell me what's wrong. That was always. But then we always got somewhere else.

[Paul Downs]

Right.

[Jake Shane]

You need that anchor of just a topic.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah.

[Jake Shane]

Or like a niche to fall into.

[Paul Downs]

Right.

[Jake Shane]

I think.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah. And there are. The rewatch ones are successful.

[Jake Shane]

I love Girls Rewatch podcast.

[Paul Downs]

Me too.

[Jake Shane]

Broad City.

[Paul Downs]

They did. Yes, I know.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. Were you on that?

[Paul Downs]

I was.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah. They're lovely.

[Paul Downs]

Yes, they're lovely. They're great. I want them to do hacks over. Now that it's over. They can.

[Jake Shane]

They will do hacks.

[Paul Downs]

I hope they do.

[Jake Shane]

They will do hacks, I hope.

[Paul Downs]

But, yeah, I think you should just do whatever you're like, you're into enough that you're like, you're an expert. You know what I mean? That's the thing. Like, they can speak about Girls so well or Broad Cities so well because they've seen it. And I am like, whatever her hook is or his hook is, it's just like, you have to really love the thing.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And want to talk about it a lot.

[Jake Shane]

You know, for me, that's tv. So that's why I always.

[Paul Downs]

I. I thought about doing. They did it because they did Broad City, but Darcy Carden and I used to joke about doing something called Locker Room Talk because we both worked at the gym on the show. Yeah. And it was just us talking about Broad City, essentially, But then other things. Never did it. We never did it.

[Jake Shane]

But did you, like, ever go to SoulCycle for research purposes for that show?

[Paul Downs]

Well, Abby and I both went to Equinox in New York, and so it was kind of based on her lived experience, which was, I think, to get a membership, she would hand out flyers for Equinox. So I think she, like, quote unquote, like, worked for them to get a free membership.

[Jake Shane]

Right.

[Paul Downs]

And then we both took a class that was like a class called Intensity, which was like a. Like a cardio mixed martial art aerobic thing. And I don't know. That's how she. In the pilot, she worked actually initially in a coffee shop, and the feedback was that feels kind of unspecific, which was correct. And then she was like, well, I did work at Equinox and it was kind of a crazy scene. And so then for the. For the series, Solstice was born. Solstice, based on Equinox.

[Jake Shane]

I need to watch Broad City. This is, like, making me want to rewatch Broad City.

[Paul Downs]

Tell me how. If it holds up. I haven't seen it.

[Jake Shane]

I promise you it does some things. I didn't watch it.

[Paul Downs]

Some things don't.

[Jake Shane]

Well, I didn't watch it at the time. It was on television.

[Paul Downs]

Oh, you didn't. I'm too young. Is that why.

[Jake Shane]

No, it was. When did. What was the year it came out?

[Paul Downs]

I think. I think the pilot was shot in 2012. Yeah, I think in 2013. You were too young. That's.

[Jake Shane]

I was too. But I watched Girls. I just. I couldn't, like.

[Paul Downs]

Well, Girls was the same era, you know, but.

[Jake Shane]

But Broad City was kind of like if, you know. You know, when I first started, like,

[Paul Downs]

it was like, it was no comedy, you know.

[Jake Shane]

You know, Broad City Girls was much more. More Broad Cities, like, developed this cult, I feel like.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, totally slow.

[Jake Shane]

Burned its way into, like, the collective consciousness.

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[Jake Shane]

Did you feel a resurgence of Broad City during COVID on Tick Tock?

[Paul Downs]

I did. And. And still recently, things will come up, like, in the club, we're all fam or whatever. That was recent in the club.

[Jake Shane]

We all fam.

[Paul Downs]

Lucia wrote that. She did, yeah, she did. I know.

[Jake Shane]

I hope she got a good check out of Tick Tock for that one,

[Paul Downs]

which I don't think there is that. Right?

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

I don't know.

[Jake Shane]

There isn't.

[Paul Downs]

No, there isn't. No. I don't even know. That was cool when it. When it you know, when it pops back up.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah.

[Paul Downs]

And I'm almost like, how and why? How? You know?

[Jake Shane]

And that was everywhere. By the way, Sabrina Carpenter used that sound.

[Paul Downs]

I think Kamala did it.

[Jake Shane]

Yeah, everyone did it.

[Paul Downs]

Everyone did it.

[Jake Shane]

My boyfriend of two years and I haven't said I love you yet. Okay, I know I feel that way, but I've been so hurt before. Oh, well, now I feel bad for being the first to show emotion, that I held it in. I've also had the mentality that I don't want to jinx it. I get that he is amazing and my literal dream man and treats me like a princess. I fear that he's picking up the vibes for me to not say it, but I totally know he feels the same way. What should I do? The vibes?

[Paul Downs]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jake Shane]

Say it.

[Paul Downs]

If he's picking up the vibes from you, you say it first. Oh, my gosh.

[Jake Shane]

You should watch Gossip Girl and watch Gossip Girl. What is it?

[Paul Downs]

Original or words?

[Jake Shane]

Eight letters and I'm yours.

[Paul Downs]

Okay, that's when I missed you.

[Jake Shane]

Didn't.

[Paul Downs]

Didn't watch Gossip Girl, Paul. I'm sorry.

[Jake Shane]

Well, Paul, what did we learn today?

[Paul Downs]

We learned that we're family.

[Jake Shane]

We are family.

[Paul Downs]

We learned that it's okay to be pretentious.

[Jake Shane]

Yes.

[Paul Downs]

We learned to be authentically yourself and to say I love you. And to be unafraid of that.

[Jake Shane]

And I love you.

[Paul Downs]

And I love you, too.

[Jake Shane]

And congratulations on five incredible seasons of Hacks.

[Paul Downs]

Thank you for being a part of it.

[Jake Shane]

Thank you for having me.

[Paul Downs]

It's my honor.

[Jake Shane]

The series finale of Hacks is out now. Hold down.

[Paul Downs]

Check it out. Saucey spell. Hi, pussies.