Loading summary
Transcript576 lines
- [00:00]
A
What is dadication? The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him Dae Dae for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together. We did a good job. That's dadication. Find out more@fatherhood.gov brought to you by the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.
- [00:39]
B
So this is your house?
- [00:40]
A
Yes, I live. I'll show you after. My room is right there. And then all the girls live in the main house.
- [00:45]
B
All the girls?
- [00:45]
A
Yeah. I love three girls from college. I know. And they're all, like, sitting in their room like this right now that you're here.
- [00:52]
B
Oh, my God, that's so sweet, you know, because. And why do you live in.
- [00:56]
A
I. I. I know from la. I know. Well, I was born in la, and then I was raised in New York.
- [01:02]
B
Okay.
- [01:03]
A
So I was raised in Washington Heights in New York, and then I moved to Los Angeles for college.
- [01:11]
B
Okay.
- [01:12]
A
Yeah.
- [01:12]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [01:13]
A
Yeah.
- [01:13]
B
And you just, like, the, like, yummy way of life.
- [01:16]
A
I just love la. But I'm like, why don't I live in Los Feliz? Because as we met the other night, I was like, I feel like everyone's in Los Feliz these days. And I actually used to live in Los Feliz when I was a little kid.
- [01:25]
B
It was very cute over there. I do, like, it's nice over here too.
- [01:29]
A
Yeah. How are you doing today?
- [01:31]
B
I'm good. How am I doing? It's so cozy today.
- [01:34]
A
I know.
- [01:34]
B
It's Saturday. It's, like, fun to do this on a Saturday.
- [01:36]
A
I know. And I literally called everyone up and I said, this is a 91 1. Lord is coming in on Saturday. I'm sick about it. And cancel your plans.
- [01:50]
B
You're way too cute.
- [01:52]
A
I love you. I really do. And I'm so excited for your new album.
- [01:56]
B
Than him.
- [01:57]
A
Are you? How long did it. How. How long did you. How long did you make it for? Like, how long did it take?
- [02:02]
B
I started making it at the fabulous Taylor Cosmo.
- [02:07]
A
Oh, yes, yes, yes. And we have the tailor there.
- [02:10]
B
So cool.
- [02:11]
A
And all the fake diplomas.
- [02:12]
B
University. Sorry, I got distracted.
- [02:14]
A
No, please. I. I can tell you about anything you want to know about love.
- [02:17]
B
Absolute love. I. We started making it. I sort of, like, tried to start making it sort of mid 23, and I just, like, went crazy instead and went to London and, yeah, just sort of, like, had a mental breakdown. Got single and, yeah, just sort of. I don't know, it all happened. And then probably at the end of 2023, we started making. As we wrote what was that? And I was like, okay, this is. This is sick. And then all 24, we made it, basically.
- [02:49]
A
And was it, like, were you having, like. Like, like, were you just struggling before, like, to get, like, what you wanted to say out? And then you had to, like, have that moment where it's like you broke up and you went to London in order to, like, start regurgitating, like, everything out.
- [03:03]
B
I think I really, like, wanted. It was something I really wanted from, like, even before it started clicking. Like, I met Jimmy, who I made the album with, at the start of 2022, and I was like, there's a kind of music that I think I should be making that I think we could make together. And I basically described to him, like, what the album is. But it took me a long time to, like, be able to sort of took some bravery, actually, this album, like, just to be like, like, right, really, like, go there and. And it just takes some time. Like, I always think, like, you kind of have to, like, write your way out of the album before.
- [03:47]
A
Oh, interesting.
- [03:48]
B
I just spend all this time dancing around what I'm going to say and not saying it. So, you know, and then all of a sudden, you, like, hear a sound, you're, oh, that's how it should sound. And then that builds it out. So I don't know. I'm just like. I really went into it with no plan. I was like, I have to be very. Keep very open and around and, like, see what happens.
- [04:10]
A
Right. And then. Is that kind of like where the name, like, Virgin comes from? Because it's kind of like, like, all the anticipation in order to, like, get to that first time, and then you, like, do it, and then it's like everything starts flowing after that.
- [04:22]
B
Oh, I like that interpretation.
- [04:24]
A
Okay, cool.
- [04:24]
B
So that's not right, but I like it. It's cute. No, the name version, I just felt like it was so. There was something so cool about it to me. Like, I think I. I mean, it, like, speaks to a sort of, like, purity. But the album was quite sexual, so it wasn't like sexual purity. It was just sort of this feeling of, like, newness and purity and sort of something coming right down to something essential, like. And even, like, you know, this Virgin Steel or virgin hair. Like, these things that are sort of, like, denote purity. But I also, like, you know, I'm kind of always trying to, like, stay connected to my, like, teen self. I feel like there's some real, like, magic in the, like, teen version of you. And I don't know, it was really, like, trying to kind of get back to this place where you're kind of quite awkward, and it all sort of, like, spills out in a way that maybe you didn't want it to or, you know. Yeah. You reveal something of yourself and that feels really vulnerable. And it sort of all felt like virginity to me. Yeah. Yeah.
- [05:34]
A
I'm so excited. I'm freaking out. I'm, like, really, Like, I. I'm just like. I was like, how do I play this chill? Like, I really can't. Like, I literally remember, like, when pure heroine came out, and I like, you know when you just remember, like, certain moments of, like, listening to a song or an album and, like, exactly what you were doing. I remember, like, tying my shoes, like, in my foyer of, like, my apartment and, like, listening to, like, Team for the first. And, like, I remember getting into a fight with my best friend at the time and listening to 400 Lux. And then I remember melodrama coming out and then so. And I just, like, I'm so crazy that you're here. I'm sorry. I'm freaking out.
- [06:14]
B
Wait, how old are you? Are we the same age?
- [06:16]
A
Works close. I'm 25.
- [06:17]
B
Okay. Oh, okay.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah.
- [06:19]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [06:19]
A
But do you ever, like, go back?
- [06:21]
B
You're so accomplished for 25. That's insane. When did you start? How long have you been doing this podcast?
- [06:28]
A
A year and a year.
- [06:30]
B
That's insane.
- [06:31]
A
I know. A year and a half.
- [06:33]
B
Oh, my God. Wait, when were you born?
- [06:36]
A
99. So I like to say I'm, like, a 90s kid, but I'm not.
- [06:39]
B
Right, right. You know, 99's cool. I like that.
- [06:41]
A
Right. It's, like, right before 2000, but I'm a Scorpio, and you're a Scorpio as well.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah.
- [06:46]
A
Right? Yeah. I mean, I remember, like, did you. It's so funny that you wrote what was that? And then it ended up becoming the first single. Did you know when you wrote that, you were like, this is 100 on the album and this is going to be the first single.
- [07:02]
B
I did not know it was going to be the first single. I knew it was going to be on the album, and I kind of went back and forth on, like, whether or not to start There because, yeah, it is quite like, classic me coming out of Soul Power. I was like, I think it's cool to, like, be like, it's me.
- [07:23]
A
Right, right, right.
- [07:24]
B
You know, and then kind of, like, go somewhere.
- [07:26]
A
Oh, so the album doesn't sound a lot like, what was that?
- [07:30]
B
I'm trying to think. No, I mean, the album's just, like, freaky. It's just cool and freaky and its own thing. And, like, what was that? Just felt like a really cool, like, start to everything, you know?
- [07:44]
A
Right.
- [07:44]
B
I don't know. Yeah.
- [07:45]
A
And you said that when you did, what was that? Where you were like, you kind of just, like, you didn't even write. You didn't write anything before. You kind of just, like, went in and did it.
- [07:53]
B
No. Yeah. So we have. We have mics like this almost exactly like this. And I just, like, was just standing up and kind of walking back and forth.
- [08:01]
A
Yeah.
- [08:01]
B
Wait, did you hear the. No, you haven't heard the other. Okay. Okay.
- [08:04]
A
I haven't heard a single thing.
- [08:05]
B
Oh, my God.
- [08:06]
A
I haven't heard a single thing.
- [08:07]
B
I'll play you something after this.
- [08:12]
A
I'm going to be sick. Okay, I need to calm down.
- [08:15]
B
I need to calm down.
- [08:16]
A
I need to calm down. I need to calm down. Do you have a favorite song on the album?
- [08:21]
B
I. No, I have, like, eight favorites. Like, I just love it so much. I've never loved anything I've made so much.
- [08:28]
A
Really.
- [08:29]
B
So sick.
- [08:30]
A
How is putting out this album different than when you put out Solar power? When you put out Melodrama or Pure Heroine or the Love Club?
- [08:37]
B
So cute, by the way. I love that you have the whole. The discography.
- [08:40]
A
I know.
- [08:42]
B
I love club being in there. It's so sick. I. How's it different? I mean, I don't know. This really feels like. It's just. I mean, I sort of hate when I say. But it is just, like, who I am. Like, this is just me at this exact age and stage. It feels like a, you know, section of my, like, favorites in my camera roll or something. Like, just, like, these are the iconic moments from age 26 to age 28. And, you know, it's so. I do feel very. There's sort of, like, no song that I'm like, right. This is just, like, easy and straightforward to put out. Like, they all, you know, I don't know. I think because so much of this album came from this place of wanting to write a song that, like, I was like, I don't have that in my phone and I've Been going through this thing, and it's insane that I don't have this because I talk to all my girlfriends and they're all going through this thing, you know, So I don't know. Yeah, it just is quite. It gets in there and it's quite like. It's all very, like, to do with the body. It's very physical. It's very vulnerable in that way. And I honestly found, like, a lot of these songs quite hard to write. Something took me a long time. I really dragged my feet, like, not finishing lyrics or whatever because it was just, like, uncomfortable for me.
- [10:15]
A
Right.
- [10:16]
B
But I think that's, like, where the magic happens. I like, now believe that, like, if you're not feeling that discomfort as anyone who makes something, you're, like, not making anything good. Like, you have to be kind of, you know, for it to, like, get into other people and really, like, you know.
- [10:33]
A
Yeah.
- [10:33]
B
That's what you're trying to do.
- [10:34]
A
Do you remember, like, a song on the album that was, like, specifically, like, really difficult to wr. And you were like, oh. But then, like, when you did it, it was like, if, like, you felt this release, maybe.
- [10:45]
B
Totally. Yeah. There's a song called Broken Glass that Way that I finished writing, like, two weeks before the hand. We handed in the album and we'd been working on it for, like, a year, and I just couldn't. It was just so. Yeah. So like, stuck in me and I was just like, let it out.
- [11:03]
A
Let it out.
- [11:04]
B
Stop. You don't. Because there is this thing when you write a song, you kind of let go of it. Like, releases the kind of, like, big, like, bit of tension that you'd been holding around that subject. Like. And I really find this about pop music generally. It, like. Because it's so, like. It's such a release, like pop music at its best. So cathartic. Like, that works on my body as well. Like, I'm like, ah, I'm set free from.
- [11:32]
A
Right.
- [11:32]
B
That thing that I was struggling with, you know? And, yeah, the song Broken Glass is totally, totally like that. But I literally, like, yeah, I just walked out of the studio. I was like, I'm just going home. And I walked back to my house and, like, ate something. I just had to get out of the fucking studio.
- [11:50]
A
Right.
- [11:50]
B
And I feel like this album was kind of like that a lot. But it's like, we made it, like.
- [11:54]
A
It's like, kind of like, so. You're so, like. The album's like, so in your head kind of.
- [11:59]
B
It was just so, like, in my Head and my body. Like, and there were things that I was just like, don't expose yourself like this. Like, don't. Like. I had this actually recently with, you know, I did this interview with Rolling Stone, and it was sort of the first time I was. Had, like, talked about anything at length for years, you know, because I just, like, go the away and come back. And, you know, we were talking about, like. Because I had dealt with some, like, food and body kind of for, like, I don't know how long it was. Like, it wasn't a super long period, but it was totally, like, disordered, you know. And just talking to the journalist about it, and she said something about, like, you're recovering. I was like, oh, my God. I'm someone who, like, has gone through recovery. Like, it's even that I was like, like, yeah, this is real. And I'm. It's so vulnerable to be talking about it. And I'm just so the kind of person who, in my personal life, I'm cool to be really open about it, but it's a different thing when you're doing it, like, on the scale. But I just really came to this realization. I was like, this is what you're here to do. Like, you're supposed to be. People respond to your vulnerability in this crazy way. And it, like, allows people to, like, get into these parts of themselves. And, like, I'm just such a fan of music myself, and I know what it does for me when someone else goes somewhere. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go there, you know? And I was like, you just actually don't have a choice. You have to be brave and you have to get into these spots and it will, like, give, hopefully give other people an opportunity to kind of be brave and the stuff within themselves, you know.
- [13:52]
A
Do you feel like because you've been writing and performing for so long and your music's always so vulnerable, do you feel like as you continue to create and you continue along your career and you continue, like, occupying public space, it becomes harder as, like, to be vulnerable as you, like, continue to, like, kind of see yourself as yourself.
- [14:13]
B
Well, this was the thing, like. And I. I'm so interested to hear from you about this, like, because I feel like as someone who, like, people are aware of and kind of look at your public perception over time can kind of like, calcify and like, almost like rust, like, it becomes quite, like, rigid and like, it's like this coat that you've been like, wearing for a long time, and it gets like, oh, like, you really have to be careful not to let this kind of armor, like, rust onto you, you know, I think just as a human being, like, it doesn't feel good, and I think it can be so, like, okay, I had, like, crippling stage fright from when I was literally, like, five years old. But I remember being 16 and, like, having a panic attack on stage, you know, or, like, even on melodrama, I remember, like, yeah, basically, like, yeah, just dealing with truly, truly bad, like, very physical anxiety. And that was kind of. Because I had just been like, you got to get out there. You got to perform, and you got to get it right. You know, I'd put this, like, crazy pressure on myself, and something very rigid was happening, and it was just wrong. Whereas, like, once I was like, you can deal with this in a human way, and you can actually say to people on stage, like, whoa, I'm kind of feeling crazy tonight, but let's, like, be in that together. Maybe you've got my back, right? And they're like, yeah, we've got you. And then something cool happens, and then it's moving, and then you're not locked up, you know? So, yeah, I really. I think that it's getting easier, like, the older I get, because I'm also, like. I don't know. I'm just at the age where I'm like, what's gonna happen? What's the worst that could happen? Like, I'm gonna be too alive. I'm gonna show too much vulnerability. Like, I believe that people know that I am trying my best.
- [16:23]
A
Yeah.
- [16:24]
B
And that I'm like. Yeah. Not, like, actively, like, trying to be an. You know, and if I it up, I it up. And I don't know. I just, like, always respond better to people's vulnerability than, like, to the, like, rigid, you know?
- [16:38]
A
Well, it's almost like when, like, the armor rusts, you're, like, scared to take it off because you don't know if you're gonna be able to get it back on.
- [16:44]
B
Totally. All of this, like. But do you feel this, like, do you feel yourself, like, as you get more kind of profile being like, I have to, like, lock it down and, like, have it together, or are you kind of, like, cold to let it all hang?
- [16:56]
A
Well, I used to kind of, like, let it all hang and look like I am, like, very, very, very. This is, like, smaller scale, but, like, I. I get very scared of things disappearing and going away, and I get scared of it up and, like, saying something stupid where I used to. And it's funny because I feel like maybe that's why people initially like, exact, like your vulnerability. That's like why people resonate with you, you know, and then it's like you get scared of the reason people resonated with you in the first place, because you get scared it will be like, taken away from you almost.
- [17:29]
B
Yeah.
- [17:29]
A
You know what I mean?
- [17:30]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [17:31]
A
And I think I have to like, maybe get to that point where you're at, where you're like, well, what's the worst that could happen?
- [17:35]
B
Yeah.
- [17:35]
A
Because right now, like, I think, like, well, I don't want to know the worst that could happen. You know what I mean? Like.
- [17:40]
B
No, sure. I feel you, you know, good to be safe too.
- [17:43]
A
Yeah. But like, it's. Is it I. Do you feel like solar power was kind of like you coming out of that armor a little bit into like, like nature and like feeling everything and then virgin is like you like, diving back into the water?
- [18:01]
B
This is such a good question. I feel like, what do I feel like? I feel like at the end of Melodrama, I really had this kind of not meltdown. But I remember feeling all of a sudden like, whoa, hang on. This thing that was my hobby that I did, like after school is now like my employment and I employ all these other people. It's gotten too big. Like I'm a kid. I just felt this thing of like, ah. Like I felt scared. I didn't know I was getting that little bit older. Like the new kind of like, crop were coming in and I was like, oh my God. Like, I don't know if I want to do this at this level. I felt like, really overwhelmed and I just like went home to New Zealand, got a dog and sort of, I don't know, had this moment of sort of being like, I don't know if I want to do all of that. Like, I'm just going to be this kind of girl who's like, sort of off the map and like, really mysterious and sort of like even more distant and. And Sol came from a place of like, feeling very joyful and, you know, chill and like it was also so crazy touring melodrama. Like, I found it very, for that whole time very intense to be sort of like in this, like, very just like hardcore music. I don't know. I like, I for some reason found it very intense and I just wanted like something that felt like very light and easy after that, but it was cool. Like, I like love solar power so much and I truly needed to make it, like I wouldn't be here with another album if I hadn't made Solar Power. But I think it showed me that, like, you sort of don't. You sort of just have no choice but to, like, be who you're supposed to be. Like, me sort of, like, disappearing and being all, like, wafty and, like, on the beach. Like, I was just like, actually, I don't think this is me. I think, like, I just am this person who's meant to, like, make these, like, bangers that, like, us all up and, like, that just, like, rip across it, like, festival ground. Like, I was like, that's. I'm supposed to, like, do that to our bodies. I don't think I'm supposed to, like, vibe out. Like, and it was kind of sad because I love to vibe out. And I am, like, that is, like, made to my core. Like, I'm in an alternate universe where I just, like, lived in New Zealand and, you know, like, worked at, like. Like, an organic farm or something. Like, that would be my vibe, but it's, like, not the life for me, I think, right now.
- [20:51]
A
But I think what's so beautiful about your music is, like, all of your work is your vibe at the time. You know what I mean? Like, it's true.
- [21:03]
B
Solar power is like that.
- [21:06]
A
It's very true. Like, solar power. You know, I find myself when I listen to music at the age where you wrote the music. Like, I relate to it so much heavier. Like. Like, when I listen to melodrama as, like A. Like, 21, 22, 19. Like, you know, when I listened to it, I was like. Like. Like, I feel this. You know? Like, I feel this. And then when I listen to Solar Power today, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to fucking go out. Like, I. Like, I want to get high and go. Go to the nail salon. I don't smoke anymore, but I used to do that all the time and listen to Stoned at the nail salon. And. Yeah, and I think that's what's really beautiful. I think that's honestly what makes your music timeless, like, in my eyes, is that it really is like this kind of universal diary. And you. You spoke about feeling these things and not having it, being able to hear it in your ear because no one else spoke about it, but I think you speak about it and you have.
- [21:58]
B
Love you.
- [21:59]
A
Love you.
- [21:59]
B
So sweet.
- [22:01]
A
Love you.
- [22:02]
B
I'm so beautiful to hear that. Thank you. Because it is a funny thing, like, when you start putting stuff out from a young age, like, you're gonna grow and Change.
- [22:12]
A
You were young, too.
- [22:13]
B
I was, like, so young. And, you know, I think it's okay if. I think, like, whether you make stuff or not, like, if it just doesn't all move in a straight line, like, it's cool. The. It should zig, and the zag is actually a really awesome part of it all. And I have, like, no regrets ever, like, for any zig. Any zag. Even the ones that are, like, uncomfortable in the moment or just don't feel as representative or whatever, you know, Love it all. Like. Yeah, it gets you. It gets you there.
- [22:42]
A
You know, I. I would send. I would text my friend Julia. I'd say, sorry, and then she'd say, why? And then I'd send, like, all the lyrics to Supercut. And then she'd be like, cool.
- [22:54]
B
Like, you're so sweet.
- [22:56]
A
Sorry.
- [22:57]
B
Beautiful. I honestly, like, this is very moving for me because I. I actually, like, really struggle with, like, feeling like, anything I've done is. It does anything for anyone. Like, I truly, like, It's. It's very hard for me to.
- [23:15]
A
Are you kidding?
- [23:15]
B
No, I'm not joking. Like, I. Some days it, like, really hits. Like, I'm just like, wow. Like, so moving for me. There's some fucking slammers on the album.
- [23:29]
A
Please tell me one.
- [23:30]
B
I mean, there's some crazy ones. This album's more, like, trying to think of one that you would think was cool.
- [23:36]
A
I will think all of them are cool.
- [23:38]
B
I think there's a song that I love so much called Clear Blue that is about unprotected sex and just this experience of, like, taking a pregnancy test and, like, this, like, flood of emotions that goes through your body, like, whatever you want it to say. It's, like, such a, like, moment. And that whole song, like, is just so, like, destroys me. Like, I can't even really listen to it.
- [24:13]
A
So how did you come up with, like, the COVID of it? Like, what is the COVID Because I've been trying to, like, figure out, like, is that, like, an iPad in the chest?
- [24:23]
B
No. Okay, so the COVID is my pelvis, and then my iud. And the COVID Yeah, I just had this.
- [24:31]
A
Did I just think that IUD was an iPad?
- [24:37]
B
I mean, you know, it is a very. It's an abstract image.
- [24:43]
A
Okay, cool.
- [24:44]
B
Cool, cool, cool. But they are weird. Like, I wouldn't expect. I didn't know what they looked like until I had one.
- [24:52]
A
Yeah, I had no idea. I thought it was an iPad.
- [24:54]
B
No.
- [24:54]
A
And I thought it was, like, this, like, saying of, like, technology, and, like, I thought it was this whole thing.
- [25:01]
B
Sort of like, maybe six months in that I wanted to take a lot of X rays and, like, ultrasounds and MRIs. It felt like a really interesting, kind of, like, techy, but, like, mystical type of image capture. Like, and seeing, like, right into you and right through you, but also, like, so much information is lost. Like, it's quite mysterious. But it was funny. Like, I. Making the album, before I even sort of figured this out, I was, like, using the X ray emoji a lot and text to friends. Like, it just sort of felt like where I was at. Like, I was just trying to, like, see right into myself. And I would, like. I don't know, a friend would send me a text, and I'd be like, wow. Like, X ray emoji?
- [25:46]
A
Yeah.
- [25:46]
B
And I started, like, using it online a lot. And so funny. When the album cover came out, the, like, kids and I, like, read it were like. Some of them were kind of like, you know, oh, like this. Like, this was such a. Like, she was just teasing this for such a long time. Like, why'd she tease it? I'm like, you don't understand. I had no idea that was, like, that. Using that emoji sent me to the COVID Like, this whole album was just. So I would see something written down somewhere, and I would write it down, and then that would make it into a song or, you know, I don't know. It was just this very open process of, like, creation that, like, partly sometimes would be like, oh, I'm texting this thing to my friend a lot. I think that's part of the album, right? Yeah.
- [26:35]
A
Do you. Is there, like. Were there any, like, alt covers that you were gonna go with? And how did you, like, like, were, like, did you have any, like, alt, or did you just, like, take this one and you're like, this is it.
- [26:47]
B
We took a whole lot of X rays. No, I just sort of, like, took all these X rays and was like, I think it's gonna be something like that.
- [26:57]
A
And then did you, like, have any other, like, title names for the album besides Virgin? Or did. Was it just like, this is it?
- [27:04]
B
Okay, so we actually did. But I can't tell you because I might use it. We'll see.
- [27:10]
A
I totally.
- [27:11]
B
I might use it for something else. But no, the album had a full other name for, like, most of the time.
- [27:16]
A
Oh, no way.
- [27:17]
B
And I was like, I think it needs a name that is more reflective of what it is. And it changed. But that's never happened to me before.
- [27:24]
A
Like, when you came up with, like, pure heroine melodrama. So, like, did those names come to you, like, immediately? And it was like, this is it.
- [27:30]
B
Solo I had before I started the album Melodrama. I had. Yeah. Kind of like halfway through Pure Hero and I didn't have till the end, but, yeah, this. I'd never had, like, a full other name.
- [27:42]
A
Yeah.
- [27:43]
B
Quite stressful when it. Like, when I was. I don't think that's it. I was like. I was like, it'll come. It'll come. So I'm chill.
- [27:53]
A
Did you. Did you. How many songs did you record for the album?
- [27:57]
B
Good question. I feel like I basically only ever record, like, give or take one or two. Like, the amount that's on the album and then everything else is, like, sort of half finished. Like, I only. Yeah. It's a weird thing about me. I only really. Everything I write, everything I finish, if I finish the song, it's, like, meant to be released, and if I don't finish it, it's not. There's, like, one Lucy hanging around.
- [28:26]
A
Right.
- [28:26]
B
Which maybe we'll see the light of day. We'll see.
- [28:29]
A
Oh, my God.
- [28:30]
B
I know. It takes me so long. I squeeze out these little nuggets.
- [28:33]
A
Right?
- [28:35]
B
Takes me years. It's like, not even that long.
- [28:38]
A
Did you do the. You did the whole album with Jimmy, right?
- [28:40]
B
I did the whole album with Jimmy, yeah.
- [28:42]
A
And I can't believe I just called him by the first name.
- [28:44]
B
I know.
- [28:46]
A
Because I, like, kind of. It's Jimmy Stack, right? Yeah. Like, so in my head, I was like, what if that's not his last name? So I just went by Jimmy.
- [28:53]
B
It's great. I love it.
- [28:54]
A
But how did you guys meet? How did that. How did you come together?
- [28:57]
B
We met because I sort of, like, saw his name in the credits of a few. I'm a real, like, genius lurker, and they would, like, see people in the credits of things. And he just, like, worked on a couple of things I thought were really cool. And. Yeah. At the start of 2022, I just met with him and was like, I think that, like, we're supposed to make, like, generational bangers together. So intense.
- [29:23]
A
Yeah.
- [29:24]
B
He was like, right, right. I was like, I think some of us just have that in us and we have a duty to do it. I was like, it's our obligation. He was like, cool. Okay, let's try something.
- [29:35]
A
What did he think of the. Sorry, did I just interrupt you?
- [29:39]
B
No, not at all. No, no.
- [29:42]
A
What. What did he think of the Washington? How did you come up with, like, The Washington Park Square park idea. Was he there for that?
- [29:48]
B
No, he wasn't there for. Sad for him, but he. Yeah. How did we come up with it? Well, I. So I'm in the park every day. I think it's like an amazing thing about living in New York City that there are these spaces that are sort of private but shared. You know, you'll see people like sitting in the park, kind of like having their own moment next to a whole lot of other people. And I think that's like why you live in a city like New York. And. Yeah, I'm just like, I'm. I'm in that part literally every day. Whether I'm reading, whether I'm taking a call or listening to like voice notes or texting people back or just like sitting, looking at the fountain. I love watching the skaters when the fountain's off and it's just like this like cool built in stage, you know, like right where the fountain is and there's always people performing in the park. And I was like, you know, this is all it is. Like I'm so privileged to have the kind of like, level of interest that I have. But at the end of the day, the bravery of anyone standing in a park and performing, like, it's, it's, it's exactly that. That's, that's what's happening when I, when I put something out, you know, So I wanted to, like, I wanted to feel that vulnerable and that like. I don't know. Yeah, just kind of like I felt vulnerable standing in the park.
- [31:22]
A
Yeah.
- [31:23]
B
Being like, here's my song.
- [31:24]
A
Right. Right.
- [31:25]
B
It's actually quite a crazy feeling, you.
- [31:27]
A
Know, I was literally walking there and then it got shut down for a second. So I was like, okay, I guess I'll just go to dinner. And then I checked my phone and I was like, cool. So she went back.
- [31:36]
B
Where did you go for dinner?
- [31:38]
A
I went to. Where did I go to dinner? I went to this Sartiano's.
- [31:43]
B
Oh.
- [31:44]
A
It was like this Italian place. What's your favorite restaurant in the city?
- [31:47]
B
My favorite? Yeah, I was scared to say it because I love it so much. I don't want to.
- [31:52]
A
Okay, we can, we can, we can, we can bleep it out.
- [31:54]
B
Okay. Okay. It's. It's a Japanese restaurant.
- [31:57]
A
Okay. So I've never heard of it. So we're going to bleep that out to save it for you.
- [32:01]
B
Save my restaurant? That's my obsession.
- [32:03]
A
Do you love Japanese food?
- [32:06]
B
I love Japanese. I'm like, I'm vulnerable, like I don't like, plate my wrist. Yeah, I love. I love Japanese food. I'm trying to think of other restaurants that I like in the city. I don't know, it's quite hectic. It is very dark in the, like, dinner. I'm like, wow.
- [32:25]
A
Yeah.
- [32:26]
B
You know, I'm never making a rares. Like, I don't quite.
- [32:29]
A
Right.
- [32:29]
B
I'm always behind.
- [32:30]
A
Right.
- [32:33]
B
Yeah.
- [32:33]
A
How long have you lived in the city for?
- [32:35]
B
I moved in 20, 21. I got my place. I bought it off a FaceTime. I had a FaceTime tour. And I was like, seems awesome.
- [32:49]
A
Yeah.
- [32:50]
B
Quite a, like, bold way to purchase property. But I love it so much. I love living in the city. It was so good for me. I like, because I'm such a little, like, internal being. Like, I can really tuck away and. Yeah, I think just it forces me to get out there. And I also. I find it like, super cool sentence. I find New York City super inspiring, but just like, in the way of, like, saying what everyone's wearing. You know, you see the fashion change, like in like a day, right. All of a sudden you're like, oh, people are wearing it slightly differently.
- [33:31]
A
Right.
- [33:32]
B
Or like, I don't know. Yeah, I just. I find it very inspo. It's just a cool city. And I think it's cool in your 20s to like, I don't know, let it all hang in New York. I don't know if I'll be there forever, but I really love it. Do you think you'll go back? Do you miss it?
- [33:49]
A
Yeah, I was just there. I love it. But growing up there for me is so different than my experience with it now. I don't know if you feel the same way with New Zealand, but, like, I hated it growing up. I hated it because I like, I was like, I hated, like, just. I hated my, like, how I was like, I hated. I was so uncomfortable in my own skin. I, like, didn't go out. Like, I like, well, I wanted to go out. It wasn't that I didn't want to go out. It was like. It was just like, to grow up in New York, it's like I looked like a baby. So my fake ID didn't work. And then like, a baby. No, I did. So, like, these places would be like, I'd go with all my girlfriends and they'd be like, like, yeah, you need to go home. And I. So I was like, I hate this city. I hate this city. And then now when I go back, I have the best time and like, I go on dates, and I see people, I actually find, like, dating and romance to be, like, much more alive in New York than it is in Los Angeles.
- [34:40]
B
Right.
- [34:41]
A
So for that reason, I will say, like, yeah, I would like to settle down in New York, but, like, my whole life is here. My family's here, my best friends are here, Everyone I work with is here. And it would just be so hard for me to leave. And I also feel like I'm that type of person. I don't know if you also feel this way, but it's like, I hate wherever I'm at in the moment, and I romanticize everywhere else. You know what I mean?
- [35:04]
B
Got it. Got it.
- [35:05]
A
So when I'm in New York, I'm like, I miss la. And then when I'm in la, I'm like, I miss New York.
- [35:09]
B
You know, it'll always be there. You know, you can pop back.
- [35:13]
A
Okay, I have a question, and I. It's been eating me alive for years. Is Melodrama a concept album in the sense that it takes place over one house party?
- [35:28]
B
Wow. I love. I mean, good question. Kind of. Kind of. I definitely, like, was, like, throwing a lot of parties at my house, and I. I liked the, like, natural arc of a party and how it can feel like a sort of, like, opera play or something. There's like, the peak, and then it all falls apart, and then it, like, there's, like, hope at the end. I don't know. I. I definitely, like. Yeah, there's, like, some of that arc to it, but I don't know. Yeah, I also just, like. I think I was quite, like, drama at that age, and, like, was just, like, I wanted, like. I liked, like, the idea of, like, a concept.
- [36:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:14]
B
Concept album. Like, it just seemed cold when I.
- [36:17]
A
Told my best friend, I was like, melodrama takes place over one house party. She dropped her phone. She said, okay, like, what do you. I remember. Oh, God. I just. It's so crazy that you say that sometimes you feel like you don't have an impact because, like, your music is some of the mo. Most music. I remember exactly where I was. Like, it was during COVID and my best friend had never heard terrific Places. And she was in the bathroom, and I was sitting on the couch, and I put it on, and she swung the door open and she said, what the fuck is this? And I said, it's perfect places. And I just will never forget. It's one of my favorite moments of my entire life. And, like, I just share so much of that. I feel Like, I'm sorry, I feel like it's just me, like, regurgitating how much I love your stuff, but, like, it really, like, I don't know what else I'm going to be. I'm going to be able to do this, so I just have to do it now.
- [37:05]
B
I appreciate this so much. Truly, though, it's so beautiful.
- [37:12]
A
This episode of Therapist is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah. Once again, I am so grateful that booking.com is the sponsor for this episode because once again, we used it. We are going to Denver tomorrow. We have nowhere to stay. And Matt once again pulled up booking.com typed in what we needed. Whether that be walking distance, whether that be a terrace, whether that be a tub, shout out Meredith from Salt Lake City, whether that be anything you could want, you can put in. And it will show you options. And it really takes the stress wave on everything. Like, I used to get so stressed out when we wouldn't have rooms booked because Matt does everything so last minute and, like, I'm just not the type of person to do that. But with booking.com it makes it so easy because I know that we will always find something. You can also book vacation rentals. You can book car rentals, like, anything you need to make the vacation as full and as complete as possible. Booking.com has obviously. Also, we're booking for, like, six different people on my crew, so it's so easy to find an accommodation that works for everybody. Because, like, booking for a lot of people can be really difficult, especially when you're just going through the hotel website or, like, looking up individual hotels. So going on booking.com and being able to, like, kind of search everything all at once for what you need is just. It couldn't be more helpful for our tour if I can find my perfect stay on booking.com. anyone can find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. What are you therapist about today?
- [38:39]
B
What am I therapist about?
- [38:40]
A
Like, what are you angry about?
- [38:41]
B
What am I angry about? I'm angry. Wow. Okay. Well, I am not supposed to have my period today. I have my period today because I'm like, taking Spironolactone for my skin and it's like, not really working. So I've gone up the dose and I. And like, going up the dose is like, with, like, now I have my period and I'm like, I just feel like women's health is, like, not. I'm like, this is like, years behind where it should be. It drives me crazy. I'm like, I've had this whole journey of, like, coming off my birth control and just my hormones. Everything's been so insane. I'm like, how do we still. How is this also kind of mysterious so that I'm like, let's get it together. Modern medicine.
- [39:32]
A
I know they probably. Will probably take them forever to do it as well.
- [39:36]
B
Yeah. Whatever you. Whatever you do, you're killing it. Like.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah.
- [39:40]
B
I'm proud of you for, like, listening to your body because.
- [39:43]
A
Right.
- [39:43]
B
It's. It's quite hard to do. I only started listening to my body, like, two years ago. I was like, wow, she's telling me something. Like, I can hear if I just keep quiet. I can hear.
- [39:54]
A
What do you mean, like, listen to your body? Like, how did you, like, learn how to. I feel like I don't listen to my body, so I am curious how to do that.
- [39:59]
B
It's so, so hard. And I, like, had no idea. I don't know. There's just, like, all this information that if you, like, just sit tight and listen. Like, she's actually telling you a lot, right? And I feel like, yeah, it's. It can be quite. For me, it was, like, very long and slow and gradual. And it would just be about, like, listening over, like, a month and being like, this month feels different to the last month. And here's maybe why. Like, you just kind of have to chill it out and find some stillness, which is so hard. Like, I, you know, still really struggle. But I'm like, just listen. She'll tell you. You know, this is the craziest thing is, like, I always say this to friends. This is my, like, new, like, advice thing. I'm like, you know, they'll be like, should I. What is it? Should I do this? Should I do this? I'm like, you actually already know the answer. Like, so just listen. It's in there. Like, everything about your life, you know, you actually know what it's meant to be.
- [41:00]
A
You know, how do you distinguish? Like, do you. Do you have, like, deal with, like, anxiety and stuff?
- [41:06]
B
Not really. I mean, I, like, definitely at the moment, like, tweak out in the mornings, right?
- [41:11]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [41:12]
B
I used to have that, but I'm actually, like, not. I. Not really.
- [41:17]
A
Because sometimes for me, it's like, it's existential for me. Right? Like, I have this, like, gut feeling, and I'm like, is that a gut feeling or is that anxiety?
- [41:25]
B
Right, Right.
- [41:26]
A
Like, I can't tell, but, like, hopefully, like, When I'm. I'm able to, like, help distinguish it, but, like, found yourself in a situation where you're like, I can't tell which one it is.
- [41:35]
B
Totally.
- [41:36]
A
Yeah.
- [41:36]
B
No, I mean, I. I'm. I make mistakes all the time. Right. I'm constantly like, yeah, why didn't I. But it. But it is usually that I didn't listen to myself or that I. This is my other obsession, is not going too fast. Like, I think often we make a decision that doesn't totally represent us because we move too fast. You're kind of like making the decision from, like, not a grounded place or whatever. I think sometimes I'm like, slow it down, sis. Yeah, just like, walk a little bit slower and see how it feels.
- [42:12]
A
Right?
- [42:13]
B
Yeah. So I don't know. That can help.
- [42:15]
A
I think I need to slow down.
- [42:16]
B
Slow down.
- [42:17]
A
Yeah. Listen, do you, like, like your later 20s, like, are you liking your later 20s more than your middle or earlier 20s?
- [42:25]
B
I absolutely love it. I am completely obsessed from when I turn 26, but really 27, I'm obsessed. It gets so much better. It's sick. Like, this is the best time of life. I kind of.25 is quite difficult for me.
- [42:42]
A
So, yeah, it's hard.
- [42:43]
B
It's being good to you. But 28, 29, like, I just can't wait. I feel like the next, like, 10 years, honestly, I'm just like, this is a prime of life for sure. It's so sick because you're finally, like, confident enough in yourself. You're like, I am hot. I see it now. I'm hot. Like, I just before that, every year was like, I would see a picture of me from a year ago and be like, oh, you were gorgeous.
- [43:09]
A
Is that the worst feeling in the entire world?
- [43:11]
B
You know? And like, you were so interesting and you had cool stuff going on and you just got, like, lost in the, like, day to day. So I feel like I finally have, like, enough of a sense of myself. I don't know. Yeah, you just, like, tap into it and you're. Yeah, you're just hot. It's cool. Sex is good, you know, you just kind of like, it all, like, clicks together.
- [43:34]
A
I'm really excited for that. And I've, like, never been excited to, like, grow older, but, like, I'm really excited to do, like, 27, 28.
- [43:41]
B
You're going to be your hottest.
- [43:42]
A
Like, I feel it.
- [43:43]
B
Do this again in three years and you're gonna be like, oh, like, I get it.
- [43:46]
A
I. Because I look, when you said that, I was like, I look at old photos of myself from high school and I was like. I thought I was the ugliest motherfucker in the room at the time. And it's like, I want to, like, hit myself. It's like, how. Why did I think that?
- [43:59]
B
Truly?
- [43:59]
A
So it's like I'm really trying to work on, like, I really try to remind myself in the moment. Like, especially when I go on dates and stuff. It's like in two years, you're going to be like, you were hot. So just feel it now. As opposed to, like, I was actually thinking about it literally this morning, and I was like, like. Because I wasn't, like, a very sexual person for, like, my entire high school. And then I was like, try. And then I was like, thinking about my freshman year of college and how I, like, I. It's like when you don't, like, view yourself as sexual or you don't even, like, view yourself as hot. Like, no one else around you is gonna. It's like such an energy thing, truly. I know.
- [44:36]
B
No, it has to come from you. And it's also this thing of, like, I feel like I was so conditioned at school to be like, this is hot. And everything else outside of that is not hot. You're like, no, actually just someone who is themselves is beautiful and hot. Like, it kind of is that simple, you know, Whether you have, like, up skin or, you know, whatever the thing is about you, like, if you feel it, like, you will just emanate hotness.
- [45:07]
A
Right? It really is like an energy. I always say, like, when. Like when I hook up with someone, I always say, like, which is few and far between, but I always say, like, ever. I. I haven't had sex in two years. I know.
- [45:20]
B
Wow.
- [45:20]
A
I know, I know.
- [45:22]
B
Wait, what? Tell me. Talk about it.
- [45:25]
A
I.
- [45:25]
B
Do you talk about this?
- [45:27]
A
No, like, like, I. So basically what happened was I lost my virginity when I. I'm really just.
- [45:31]
B
Going into it, but, like, we can cut anything. You're not comfortable? Comfortable?
- [45:34]
A
No. No. Are you down for me to tell you this story? Okay, so, like, I lost my virginity when I was 21. And, like, it was with the much older guy, and we, like, didn't use protection. And then so, like, for the next two years after that, I had, like, this, like, crazy internal panic that I had, like, all these diseases. And then, like, I finally, like, got, like, tested for diseases, and they're like, yeah, you're. You. You're good. Like, you. You're good. And then, like, I had sex one more time, and then I was like, no, no, no. And then I just haven't really had sex since that. So I think I've only had sex twice. And it's like. But when I. But I'm trying to, like, get myself back out there. And then it's like, once I started doing this, I started feeling like I like to make everyone laugh, but then by, like, making a fool of myself. But then I have this, like, juxtaposition where I'm like, is everybody making fun of me? And then it's very hard to separate in the bedroom. And it's very hard to separate, like, romantically. So, like, I don't know if, like, I don't. I don't know. I. It's probably so different for you because you, like, write, like, music and stuff. But, like, for, like, when I'm. Because people are laughing at, like, because I'm like. My goal of the day is, like, to make somebody laugh. It's hard to separate, like, romantically. So I think that's maybe why I haven't had sex.
- [46:48]
B
Wow. So. So it would be, like. It would make you feel, like, really closed up if that person laughed at you. Like, you're scared they're going to laugh at you, but you want to, like, you want them to laugh.
- [46:59]
A
No, like, no. No. It's like. It's like a lot of my videos is, like, me moving my body. It's like, yeah, me look like. Like. Like when I do my podcast on the road, like, I make fun of old photos of myself that I look bad in and.
- [47:11]
B
No, but like, if, like, a potential, like, romantic interest, like, you're scared of them laughing at you. Is that the feeling?
- [47:17]
A
Like, scared of the Mafia? Like, my body?
- [47:18]
B
Yeah. Your body?
- [47:19]
A
Yeah.
- [47:20]
B
Oh, my God, darling, you're so beautiful. No one, like, they won't. People won't laugh you.
- [47:27]
A
Oh, it's just hard to, like, tell.
- [47:28]
B
Yourself because, like, I know you're so gorgeous and hot, though. Like, just objectively, like, I'm like, you're gorgeous and you must have so many people hitting you up, right?
- [47:37]
A
I have one right now.
- [47:40]
B
Wait, are you kissing recently?
- [47:43]
A
I am. So that's why I feel.
- [47:44]
B
Do a lot of kissing.
- [47:45]
A
I feel like I feel, like, a tad lighter. Do I? It's because I'm, like, maybe catching a dick here and there, but, like, okay, fabulous. Not, like, in the.
- [47:53]
B
Not in.
- [47:54]
A
Yeah. You know, but, like. Yeah, but, like, everything else. And like, I. I'm trying to talk to people. I'm trying to.
- [48:00]
B
That's all sex, though. Like, I don't I think you should, like, take the juice out of, like, six being one thing. Like, it's all sex. You know, kissing can be sex if you want it to be. Like, kissing is, like, so intimate and fabulous and, like, I love kissing. Just kiss so much. And like, eventually, like, you'll just get, like, hungry for, like, like, more. I just, like, need more.
- [48:26]
A
Right.
- [48:26]
B
But just go so slow. Like, don't rush yourself. Listen, like, just be, like, what do you need right now? Right in there, you know?
- [48:35]
A
Yeah.
- [48:35]
B
Just, like, take your time.
- [48:36]
A
Yeah.
- [48:37]
B
Oh, my God. It's gonna be great. Like, I feel.
- [48:40]
A
Well, I feel like this summer. I have a good feeling about it. Hopefully. It is. It is a Lord Summer. It is a Lord summer. And I. I feel like last summer was brought summer, summer. Like, I was, like, partying and getting myself out there, and now it's Lord summer where I'm gonna, like, party, but, like, really, like, feel into, like, my thoughts and emotions and myself and, like, yearn and, like, feel everything. Yeah.
- [49:08]
B
I love that my summer is what I'm yearning.
- [49:10]
A
Yes. I want it. I want to, like, jump down the streets of New York to Virgin and, like, it's perfect.
- [49:15]
B
That's right. It's gonna happen.
- [49:17]
A
What do you listen to? Like, what, what is the music you listen to and what do you watch? I, I, I'm so curious.
- [49:22]
B
Oh, my God. Okay. Well, it's funny. Like, I actually didn't listen to, like, a ton of music in the last year, and I listened to, like, stuff that I've listened to a lot, like, just for sort of, like, comfort, I don't know. But I. What do I listen to? Someone was talking about this the other day. I always find it so hard to answer this question. The Explosion.
- [49:47]
A
No worries. Yeah.
- [49:51]
B
What do I listen to? You know who I love, actually, who I think is so cool? It's Tate McCray. I love her. I love her. Yeah, she's so cool. She's so good.
- [50:02]
A
She's everything.
- [50:02]
B
She's incredible.
- [50:03]
A
Yeah, I love her.
- [50:04]
B
I listened to her album recently. I was like, you're so awesome.
- [50:08]
A
She's such a performer, too. And, like, saying, she's so captivating.
- [50:11]
B
Can she not be that good at dancing? Like, it's quite rude. I find it. I'm like, chill.
- [50:18]
A
Have you guys met?
- [50:19]
B
No. No. I would actually, like, be, like, she.
- [50:22]
A
Would be the same. You. You love her. She's the kindest, sweetest. Like, she's the best person ever.
- [50:28]
B
Wow.
- [50:29]
A
And she's a very, very big fan of yours.
- [50:31]
B
Wow. I listen To. I'm just. Yeah. It's been a weird moment for me with pop culture. Like, I'm, like, kind of bad at watching movies.
- [50:42]
A
I'm horrible at watching movies.
- [50:43]
B
I watch really random movies. Like, I'm kind of interested in the accountant tip. I'm like.
- [50:47]
A
I'm like, that is so random.
- [50:49]
B
Like, I don't understand this about myself. I like. Like, I saw, like, Nosferatu. That was sick.
- [50:54]
A
Oh, yeah. That was cool.
- [50:55]
B
So, baby girl, you know, I don't know. I'm trying. Like, what is on?
- [51:00]
A
Have you.
- [51:01]
B
What's on?
- [51:02]
A
Like, what. What do you like? I. I have a. Like, what's your vibe of, like, a TV show? Because, like, I can, like, put you on in a certain direction if you're looking for it.
- [51:10]
B
My vibe is like, See, I don't know. I'm like. I'm watching the rehearsal. The Nathan Fielder.
- [51:16]
A
I love Nathan Fielder show.
- [51:18]
B
I think he's really cool. I watched the White Lotus, like, everyone. I didn't watch Severance, which maybe I would be into.
- [51:24]
A
You would. But I have a show for you that I think you would love.
- [51:26]
B
Talk to me.
- [51:27]
A
You find if it's foreign and, like, subtitles.
- [51:29]
B
Benjamin's like, no.
- [51:30]
A
Yeah, I know. I know. I was like, it's German.
- [51:33]
B
Yeah.
- [51:33]
A
It's called Dark.
- [51:35]
B
Oh, okay.
- [51:35]
A
And it's. Okay. So basically, all you need to know is that a boy goes missing in a small German town. It's a trilogy of seasons, so it's three seasons.
- [51:44]
B
Okay.
- [51:44]
A
It is the most beautifully shot, beautifully told story I've ever seen in my entire life. I know you will love it.
- [51:52]
B
Wow, Doc. Okay. Sick.
- [51:54]
A
It is on. It's about time. And, like, love and, like, I know it's. I'm being very broad, but I just don't want to give too much away. It is really so amazing. And it feels like, like, if I'm, like, really thinking of it, like, I can see, like, your music, like, playing over it.
- [52:10]
B
Wow. Okay, tight. I'm gonna watch that.
- [52:12]
A
It's amazing. It's. It's amazing. What are you watching right now? I'm. I'm re. Watching Glee.
- [52:17]
B
Oh, my God. Glee. Glee was so cool. What season are you watching?
- [52:23]
A
I'm about to be done with season one, so they're about to be at regionals. I'm so excited.
- [52:28]
B
So sick and there.
- [52:29]
A
And I'm. I'm really pumped. So I'm rewatching Glee. I just watched Overcompensating.
- [52:33]
B
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
- [52:34]
A
I need to watch it, which is amazing. It's amazing. They have a great scene where they. I think it's team oh.
- [52:40]
B
Oh, yeah. Where he's like. Something about, like, he said. Yeah. Lord's heart. He's, like, pretending to be straight.
- [52:48]
A
Yeah. He's like, it's amazing. It's amazing. And then. God. What. What else? What else am I watching? Yeah, I'm watching Glee. I'm watching. What else am I watching? Louise? I just. Oh, I just watched the Leftovers, which was beautiful.
- [53:01]
B
I'm obsessed with the Leftovers. That's so sick.
- [53:04]
A
You've seen the Leftovers?
- [53:05]
B
Unbelievable. One of my favorite. And I feel, like, underrated.
- [53:09]
A
Beyond underrated.
- [53:10]
B
It's very cool. Very cool of you.
- [53:12]
A
What do you think about the ending when she's like, I Do you watch the whole thing? Do you remember the end where she's.
- [53:18]
B
Like, yes, me up.
- [53:22]
A
Me up. Like, unbelievable. Unbelievable.
- [53:24]
B
Special shop.
- [53:25]
A
It's really special. Oh, my God. I can't believe you've seen Leftovers. That's awesome.
- [53:29]
B
As Very cool.
- [53:31]
A
Do you want to get into the Tell me what's wrongs?
- [53:33]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [53:34]
A
Okay, so these, the Tell me what's Wrong songs are the pussies right in. And they tell us what's wrong, essentially, and we. We give them advice, and we like. Like, for example, like, and we prescribe them things. So, like, if someone was like, I. I keep wanting to go back to this guy. It was so bad, but I can't. I'm having trouble remembering the bad. Oh, my God. I prescribe super cut.
- [53:58]
B
Oh, okay. Okay.
- [53:59]
A
So we're prescribing, like, media or anything or any book, whatever.
- [54:03]
B
Okay, I'm ready. Yeah.
- [54:04]
A
I want to be a singer so badly, and I know that it's what I'm meant to do. I just can't seem to put myself out there as I have massive stage fright. All I want to do is share my music with the world, but I'm literally my own barrier. What do I do? Like, what was it like for you to first overcome that stage fright?
- [54:20]
B
Oh, my God. It was so hard. It's so. It's so. I tried everything. I truly tried everything. Something that really helped me, actually, was someone said to me that being super anxious can sometimes be your body confusing excitement or aliveness for, like, danger because it's so activating. You're like, am I safe? And I think sometimes it's just about being, like, in pursuit of, like, my most exciting, beautiful life. I'm gonna, like, feel this, like, super intense feeling, you know, and. And just remind yourself, like, this Feeling in my chest is actually. It's like, aliveness and excitement. But it's easier said than done. I had to, like, really do some crazy therapy to stop having stage fright.
- [55:18]
A
Were you. Were you scared to, like, put out your music when you were younger, or did you just, like. Were you too young to even, like, kind of acknowledge the fact that, like, it was a scary thing to do?
- [55:29]
B
No, I wasn't scared of putting stuff out. And I did love to perform. Like, I did theater as a kid and stuff. It just. Just like, the actual performance, I was like, I'm gonna be sick.
- [55:39]
A
Yeah.
- [55:40]
B
Okay, wait, but what are we prescribing.
- [55:42]
A
For the stage fright thing? I would prescribe beta blockers.
- [55:46]
B
Literal prescription.
- [55:47]
A
Yeah. You know, I've never taken a beta blocker. Oh, are they amazing?
- [55:51]
B
I. I don't know. It wasn't strong enough for me.
- [55:53]
A
Okay. That's what I like.
- [55:56]
B
What do you prescribe as well? I would actually prescribe, like, some, like, fresh air. Like, sometimes they think, like, just, like, take a sick. For sure. Brings everything down a little.
- [56:07]
A
I kind of also prescribe, like. I know, like, like. Okay, so I always describe, like, doing something scary. No, no, no. I'm about to do what you just did. No, you can do. You can. No, you can prescribe anything. I'm gonna, like, prescribe jumping into cold water. Because when you. Because I always describe, like, doing something scary as, like, jumping into water and then like. Or like. Because then you're in the. Like. And then at that point, like, you're wet and you're in the water.
- [56:32]
B
Get the shock. Yeah.
- [56:32]
A
So you just have to get the shock over.
- [56:34]
B
Yeah.
- [56:34]
A
Culture, like, jump into the cold water and kind of, like, try to imagine that as your music career.
- [56:39]
B
It's perfect.
- [56:40]
A
Yeah.
- [56:41]
B
Love.
- [56:41]
A
I think my boyfriend is holding me back. We've been dating for three years and moved across the country together, and now I've been living together for the past seven months. But there's part of me that is yearning for more self exploration without a partner. Help.
- [56:57]
B
I prescribe breaking up.
- [56:59]
A
Yeah.
- [57:01]
B
I unfortunately prescribe breaking up. Yeah, you. You will. You probably are being held back. And you. I do believe that there's no substitute for being alone. Like, you just have to. If you feel like you need to take a second, find yourself, you. Nothing else will do that except for being alone and really, like, just seeing how that feels. What would I prescribe? What's like, inspo about, like, being single? Trying to think.
- [57:31]
A
Well, actually, the movie, Someone great, which I always prescribe, but I really think it's a really good movie because she was being held back by her partner.
- [57:38]
B
Okay.
- [57:39]
A
And that's actually the movie where I really fell in love with Supercut.
- [57:43]
B
Oh, my God. So beautiful.
- [57:44]
A
Have you seen someone great?
- [57:45]
B
I actually haven't seen it, but I did hear that it was.
- [57:47]
A
It's like in this. Yeah. In this really beautiful montage of their relationship. And it's like, awesome.
- [57:53]
B
The devil is Prada. I just remembered she's like, kind of.
- [57:56]
A
Yeah. She's being held back. That's my favorite movie of all time. Is it really?
- [57:59]
B
I've seen it. It's the movie I've seen the most.
- [58:01]
A
Me too. Oh, my God. What do you think about the ending?
- [58:06]
B
What do you mean?
- [58:07]
A
Like, when she leaves the job, I'm always like, you wanted to, like. I want her to stay and, like, be like, Miranda.
- [58:15]
B
I think it's right. I think it's right. I love her little outfit at the end when she's like, I'm not in fashion anymore.
- [58:20]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [58:22]
B
Like, low key outfit, but still, like, you can tell.
- [58:24]
A
Still like fashion.
- [58:26]
B
Yeah.
- [58:26]
A
Yeah. Oh, God, I love that movie.
- [58:28]
B
There was proud. It actually is good because that boyfriend is the worst. He's holding her back.
- [58:32]
A
He really is. And he gets mad at her for missing his birthday. Yes. Which is, like, valid, but, like, she was like, yes. Iconic. Oh, I had a huge crush on a guy and now he's dating my best friend. The worst part, I told her they'd be cute together. I've never experienced that before.
- [58:51]
B
This is the kind of shit that I would do.
- [58:52]
A
Yeah.
- [58:53]
B
I would be like, you guys.
- [58:54]
A
You know what is, like, the psychology behind that?
- [58:58]
B
Like, trying to be such a cool, chill girl, you know that you, like, like, stab yourself in the back.
- [59:04]
A
Right?
- [59:05]
B
I mean, this is every rom com.
- [59:06]
A
Yeah, it is. I would prescribe a rom com.
- [59:09]
B
I. I want to prescribe something that's like. I think you just have to go in there and, like, really spill all and just like, let it all hang and be like, I'm obsessed with you. Like.
- [59:22]
A
You ever done that before?
- [59:23]
B
No, but I think just, like, blow it up, see what happens. I don't know. Yeah, you could lose it all, but this is terrible advice.
- [59:31]
A
No, it's good advice. It's advice that I've never done and I probably, probably should have.
- [59:35]
B
I'm just like, life is too short. Like, you can't. What are you gonna do? Not say how you feel? You know, I'm like, what's gonna happen?
- [59:42]
A
I don't know.
- [59:43]
B
I'm clearly in a real like it mode.
- [59:45]
A
No way. I'm obsessed. But that's cuz that's. I feel like that's like the late 20s vibe, you know what I mean? It's like whatever. Are you going through your Saturn return right now?
- [59:54]
B
People say this, I think that I went through it prematurely. Yeah probably about to get up by it but no, I 25, 26 was very difficult for me in a way that felt like what my girlfriends would say to me about Sam return so time will tell I guess I feel like I've arrived somewhere and it's like a cool settled feeling to where I am. So we'll see.
- [60:22]
A
Do you remember a moment where you like finally felt like, oh, like I'm out of that bad period?
- [60:29]
B
Yes. I feel like it was sometime last year right at the end of 2023 I was like, okay, I've got like one layer of skin like I've like just felt sealed over like. But it was so fragile. And then I think 2024 it sunk in a bit more and I felt like okay, yeah like I'm. It's coming together. I can like see who I'm meant to be and all these like, you know, big moves that are so like painful they like what they were paying off and I finally felt like I was like, okay, this is good, things are happening, you know.
- [61:16]
A
Did you feel. Because I think I might have seen you say somewhere that like when you did the Girl so Confusing remix with Charlie, like that was like. Like this like really cathartic release that kind of like led you into like finishing this album.
- [61:30]
B
It was so cathartic and amazing. I like, I'm just so grateful to her. Like what a cool. Just everything about that was so cool. So it was so vulnerable. Like I just have all the respect in the world for her having that vulnerability and like sending it my way like because I'm. I was the perfect person to receive that because I was like finally at a place in my life where I could be like, okay, like I've hurt someone and I need to explain myself and make it right with them and through that like something could be really cool for other people to like witness as well. But like if that had hit me, you know, six months or a year before, I would have been so frozen by shame and it's so like hard getting called out, you know, like it's, you know, I just don't think that I would have been able to, I don't know, go there or something.
- [62:29]
A
I think people were like so, like, people so admired how you, like, you, like, received the feedback and, like, validated the feedback and then was like, but this is, like, why I was the way I was. I think it, like, was, like, so healing for, like, like, everybody. It was like. Like, it was healing for me.
- [62:49]
B
It was legitimately healing for me. I, like, it's also just so. Like, it is so hard being a girl. It's so. It is so confusing. And I. Yeah, I just, like, never had a version of that conversation before, and I'd always wanted to, and. Yeah, it was. I just, like, it was just amazing. I'm so grateful. Like, what a cool. What a cool girl.
- [63:17]
A
Yeah.
- [63:17]
B
I, like, can't believe, like, that's our pop princess. Like, it's just so perfect.
- [63:21]
A
It's. It is so perfect.
- [63:23]
B
Amazing.
- [63:24]
A
When you got. So how did it. When you. You got the. You got the song in a voice memo.
- [63:29]
B
I got the voice, yeah.
- [63:31]
A
And then you, like, did you call. Did you call her and be like, this is how I feel, or did you literally just send back the lyrics?
- [63:37]
B
Yeah, no, I was like. I was like, hey, sis, I'm just waking up in New York. I'm so sorry. Like, let me hit you back. Like, we're gonna. This is gonna be sweet. Like, let me just.
- [63:50]
A
Yeah.
- [63:51]
B
You know, I was like. We sort of sent a couple voice notes. I was like, can you get me the stems? Like, kind of that day, I was like. I was. I sort of had this feeling, like, it would just be easier if I just expressed it on the song, you know, and then it would come together. And, yeah, that day. Started working on it. I think I recorded it the next day. And, yeah, I was like, hey, I've recorded something. Do you want to hear it? Should we talk first, or should I just send you the lyrics? And she was like, send me the lyrics. I was like, okay. I just fired them over.
- [64:25]
A
Wow.
- [64:25]
B
That was. That. Yeah. No, it was so. So beautiful. So amazing to. To get feedback. Like, I honestly think it's one of the coolest, most loving things, like, in a friendship or a relationship where someone can be like, hey, like, it's making me feel like this, you know, doesn't have to be, like, an attack on you. It's just like, this is how it's making me feel. And you're like, oh, my God. It's making you feel like that.
- [64:51]
A
Right?
- [64:52]
B
You know, I just. It's so incredible that she was able to do that for me. And now we, like, ride. Yeah, it's real. Like, we're like, it's. It's for life.
- [65:03]
A
Like, you guys talk all the time.
- [65:04]
B
We don't like, talk all the time, but there's just like a depth of like. Like we have each other's back for life.
- [65:11]
A
Like.
- [65:11]
B
Yeah, it's one of those.
- [65:13]
A
That's beautiful.
- [65:14]
B
So cool.
- [65:14]
A
Do you have a favorite lyric in that verse?
- [65:18]
B
In my verse, I. I mean, I'm. I love you. Walk like a.
- [65:24]
A
Me too.
- [65:25]
B
Someone had said that to me when I was like 11, you know, 10, like, and it was just. Sometimes you just hold something your whole life and you're like, I can like, let it fly free in a song and all these other people are gonna scream it and like, it'll be so cathartic and amazing. Yeah, maybe that. And I am quite proud of that. It's just self defense until you're building a weapon.
- [65:47]
A
Yeah, that's a dope lyric. That's it. That's like a bar. I heard that. I was like, like, you know what I mean? I was like, yeah.
- [65:55]
B
I liked a meme that I saw of it. It was like the Oppenheimer guy, but sort of like with like a crazy filter on crazy lips and like eyelashes and so. Yeah, I gotta show you for it to work.
- [66:07]
A
Yeah, I do need to see this. I was like, is the bomb going off? Like, were you nervous to put that out, though?
- [66:16]
B
Was I nervous? No, I think it was cool. I was psyched. I was sight. Because, like, at that point, like, like, yeah, Charlie had like, we'd like, totally, like, talked about everything and, you know, it was all good and it felt cool. I was like, this is awesome. And it was such a sick, like, like just a dream to get, like, invited into brat. Like, it was just the. The moment and yet to be like. Like, my name was called.
- [66:44]
A
Yeah.
- [66:45]
B
So I was like, okay, I'm coming. It was. I loved it. It was amazing.
- [66:48]
A
What was your brat summer like?
- [66:50]
B
Well, I was in London quite a lot and then I was in New York and then here just in the studio. Had really bad acnes. That was a bummer. I was like, kissing a lot and eating a lot of fruit and just like listening to my demos and stressing out about the album. That was my brat summer and like, hanging with Charlie and stuff.
- [67:12]
A
That's amazing.
- [67:13]
B
Yeah. What was yours?
- [67:14]
A
My brat summer. I was. I was partying a lot.
- [67:19]
B
Okay.
- [67:20]
A
All I was traveling, I was partying. I. I was like. I was like, just like, like, you know, like, I felt like, very free to, like, experiment. It was like my summer of yes. It was like my summer of like, oh, I'm going to say yes to this. I'm going to say yes to this.
- [67:36]
B
So cool.
- [67:36]
A
And then I want to take. And then what I was saying was, like, I want to take that from this, that summer and bring it to this summer. That's what I want to do is the album.
- [67:44]
B
Is the album will help you.
- [67:46]
A
I'm so excited. I really am. So. Oh, my God. It's like I. I love feeling like I can't wait. And, like, I literally can't wait. Like, I, like, don't know what to do about it. I was like. But it comes out. It's so. It's so, like, kismet and perfect. It comes out on, like, one of. I'm doing Radio City for my. For this. Oh, my God. I know.
- [68:08]
B
That's insane.
- [68:09]
A
On the day this album comes out.
- [68:11]
B
Oh, my God.
- [68:12]
A
So I'm gonna listen to it, like, all day. I already know. I'm gonna wait, wake the up, just blasting it.
- [68:18]
B
That's so amazing.
- [68:19]
A
It's perfect. It couldn't be more perfect.
- [68:21]
B
Like, I'm gonna City Jake. That's insane.
- [68:23]
A
I know. I'm really excited.
- [68:24]
B
That's a moment.
- [68:25]
A
I know.
- [68:25]
B
How is the tour?
- [68:26]
A
It's great. It's hard when I don't feel like I did a good job.
- [68:31]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [68:32]
A
Like, you know, I. I mean, like, it's just like. And like, sometimes, like, if I can't fill a room completely, like, I'll look at an empty seat or like, if I see somebody leave a little early, I'm like, totally. I get it. Like. Like, you have to leave. Like, I've left early before, too. But it just, like, it's moments like that where it's like, it feels like, like a shot. Like, it's like, oh, my God. And because you're, like. You're essentially, like, dancing on stage for everybody to, like, look at and laugh or, like, enjoy and feel. And then, like, if you feel in that moment that you're not entertaining someone, it's like, so it's like I have, like, the highest highs, and then I have, like, really low lows. How's Taurine for you? Do you like Tauren?
- [69:10]
B
I. I loved her in yeah. And it was like a journey getting there. But wait, I'm still thinking about your.
- [69:16]
A
Oh, okay.
- [69:16]
B
Because I see the parallel between your, like, the, like, intimacy and. Oh, you do entertaining people and feeling this, like, pressure to entertain and then feeling like it's so vulnerable when someone maybe doesn't receive.
- [69:31]
A
Yes or Something.
- [69:31]
B
Like, there's something. There's some similarity here, but I also think, like, because. Have you toured. Is this. Have you toured much before?
- [69:39]
A
This is my second tour, so I toured for the first time this past fall.
- [69:44]
B
Okay.
- [69:44]
A
And now I'm doing the second tour, and I'm a lot better at it than I was the first round. I'm a lot more comfortable sharing parts of my life. I'm a lot more comfortable talking to the audience. I'm just, like, a lot more comfortable on stage. I'm not. I don't. I'm not scared anymore. But I do have those moments, like, when I see an empty seat, I always think, like, oh, my God, does everybody else around that seat think about how that seat is empty? Have you ever had that before?
- [70:06]
B
For Melodrama Drama, I booked an arena tour, and, like, a lot of those shows were, like, half full, really. We had made this, like, beautiful production. And just, like, there were some nights where I was like, this is awkward. Like, and people were kind of, like, writing about at the time. It was so vulnerable for me. And I didn't book. This is my first arena shows since then because I was. I had, like, such damage from, like.
- [70:32]
A
Yeah.
- [70:33]
B
That feeling that you're talking about. People don't think about the fact that the person on stage whose name is on the banner is looking at every single. Like, you say, yeah, someone walking out. Someone. Yeah. Some seat not being full. It's so vulnerable. I completely understand.
- [70:52]
A
It's. It's just like. And Melodrama is such, like, a vulnerable album, you know? Like, you're, like, literally, like, laying it.
- [71:01]
B
And then I look over, and there's just, like, these massive drapes, like, covering the, like, empty.
- [71:06]
A
You know, you do the. The worst is when I. Well, I'll ask, like, wait, so what's. How many did we sell? And they'll tell me, and they'll be like. And I'll be like, okay, but what's the cap? And they'll be like, well, we scaled it, so, like, yeah. And I'm like, what does that mean? And then I'll look up, and it's like, they blacked out.
- [71:22]
B
You just have to. You have to just be like, oh, my God, it's insane how many people are here.
- [71:27]
A
Yeah, it's incredible.
- [71:28]
B
It's so amazing. But people are paying money.
- [71:33]
A
It's a weird feeling.
- [71:33]
B
So amazing. It's incredible. And they love it. And they're not gonna. They don't ever think you did a bad job. Like, it's just amazing. They Love it. You know, you couldn't do a bad job.
- [71:43]
A
Like, oh, I really want.
- [71:44]
B
You just have to. Yeah.
- [71:45]
A
I really want you to see one of my shows.
- [71:46]
B
If you're ever around, I want to come.
- [71:48]
A
I know. I know.
- [71:50]
B
I love to laugh.
- [71:51]
A
I think you will laugh. I talk, like, a lot about, like, my childhood, and, like, it's. It's funny. It's funny. What are you most excited about for your tour?
- [72:02]
B
I'm so excited for my tour. I'm still in complete disbelief that it sold out. Like, I. I can't believe. I feel so grateful. Like, I've just cried. Oh, yesterday I was crying. So moved. I. I'm psyched. I actually love building a show. It's like. Yeah. One of my favorite things about my music is translating it live. This music is really physical, and I think it's just gonna be its full self. How fun. We tour.
- [72:38]
A
Yeah. It's amazing.
- [72:40]
B
Like, that's incredible.
- [72:41]
A
It's pretty.
- [72:41]
B
You're like, I'm on tour. I can't. I'm going on tour.
- [72:43]
A
Do you bus it? Do you take the bus around?
- [72:45]
B
I bus, yeah. Do you?
- [72:46]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I love the bus.
- [72:47]
B
It's so cute.
- [72:48]
A
I love.
- [72:48]
B
Do you have your own sheets?
- [72:50]
A
Yeah.
- [72:50]
B
Yeah. Okay, good.
- [72:51]
A
Yeah.
- [72:51]
B
Good. Do you use the shower?
- [72:53]
A
I used it once and that. I used it once in the shower. Like, spurted in my face, like, across every. My entire. Everything in my room. And I was like, I can't do that again. I use the showers at the venues all the time.
- [73:06]
B
Nice. Yeah. It's kind of crazy to shower on the bus, but I do.
- [73:08]
A
Do you really?
- [73:09]
B
I shot and I'll shower on the moving bus. What, just like, holding on? Yeah. No, no. I fully shower.
- [73:16]
A
Do you feel like you get driving down the highway? Good. Sleeps on the bus.
- [73:19]
B
I do, but I think tour is, like, just, like, how good is your sleep gonna be?
- [73:24]
A
That's what I said. Yeah. You're also, like. So after you, like, leave, if it's a good show, you're, like, so, like, on awake.
- [73:31]
B
No, totally. How do you, like, bring it down?
- [73:33]
A
I take, like, Advil pm.
- [73:35]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [73:36]
A
Like, I literally take, like, Advil pm, Benadryl, or, like, a Gabapentin and, like. Yeah, I'll, like, fall asleep.
- [73:43]
B
No. Yeah.
- [73:44]
A
It's the only way to go.
- [73:45]
B
Yeah.
- [73:45]
A
For me.
- [73:46]
B
No, totally. I feel that.
- [73:48]
A
Yeah. How do you calm down after?
- [73:49]
B
I smoke weed? Yeah.
- [73:51]
A
I. Did you ever go through a period with smoking weed where you didn't smoke for a while?
- [73:56]
B
So. Okay. The thing about me Is that I, like, right now, I probably last smoked like three weeks ago. And before that, probably two or three weeks before that, like, I actually really, I would never smoke more than like twice a week. Like, if I smoke three times in a week, I'd be like, whoa, girl, you need to chill. I find way to be like incredibly like inspiring. Kind of like world opening thing. Like, I'm never smoking weed and just sitting at home. I'm going out for like a two hour walk. I'm like in the sun. Like, I don't even smoke weed on like a rainy or cloudy day. Like, it's like a very, like, I'm like the sun shining. Like, let's go. So I'm like, lucky. Like, I've never. It's never gotten to a place where I felt like. I think people probably think I smoke way more weed than I do. But I like, really, like. And especially like in a moment, like right now, I have to be careful. I'm like, I spoke the other day and I was like, sis, the portal is open. Put that away. The next day I felt so bad. And we were actually editing the. What was that video? And yeah, it was just like, terry, this is a disaster. We made a huge mistake.
- [75:07]
A
Like, I was working with Terry.
- [75:09]
B
It's incredible. Yeah, it was so, so fun to make that video together and just like shoot it on his phone.
- [75:17]
A
That's crazy that you shot the whole thing on, on a phone and you shot it that day in the Washington Square park thing. Right?
- [75:23]
B
And we went to the edit that night and we were at the edit till three and then we put it out the next day.
- [75:28]
A
That's insane.
- [75:29]
B
Yeah, it's fun.
- [75:30]
A
It's incredible.
- [75:30]
B
Yeah.
- [75:32]
A
Oh my God. I'm trying to think. I'm like, so.
- [75:36]
B
Yeah. What else have we got for me?
- [75:37]
A
I know. I feel like I, I just. Because I knew this was gonna happen to me where it's like, like I. I feel like I've known you my whole life and then I have all these things I want to say, and then you're right here and now it's.
- [75:46]
B
Like you're killing it. This is perfect.
- [75:49]
A
Really?
- [75:49]
B
Yes.
- [75:50]
A
Are you guys having fun? Okay, cool. Because I'm gonna freak out about this for the next two weeks. So, like, respectfully, I'm gonna be like, was this fine? Like, I'm honestly curious. Do you ever go back and like, like, listen to your old work and think, like, I wish I could tell this version of me like, this, this, like, if you ever like, listen to pure heroin and you're like, I wish at the time the Lord then knew this, that I know now.
- [76:18]
B
Wow. I. I don't really listen to my own music, but on tour, when you are listening to it, you know, every night, I feel like I am like, wow, you're really going through this thing, you know? But I feel like every album is just sort of that. Like, I'm just trying to talk to a version of myself who is vulnerable in that moment and, like, needs to hear from herself.
- [76:55]
A
Yeah.
- [76:55]
B
I don't know, but. Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, it's so. It is so funny having this, like, record of, like, all of your vulnerabilities. And, like, you know, like, certain songs come from a place of, like. Like, liability was so. It was like I was, like, triggered, basically. I was like, oh, my God. Like, and, like, being hit in that place, like, made me write that song. And I look back on that now, and I'm like. You know, it's like a foundational feeling for me being like, okay, I'm gonna. This is the bit of myself that I'm gonna reveal that's gonna be too much. Like, that feeling just keeps. You never, like, lose that fear, but you. You try and make something that is, like, a bomb or, you know, that makes you feel like, no, no, it's okay to be myself to the fullest, you know? The public journal.
- [77:54]
A
Yeah, it really. It really is a public journal. Do you have, like, a. A. Like, a favorite memory over these past however many years, like, in the studio when you, like, create, like. Because it reminded me, when I watched that video of you getting the drums. Right. What was that? I was like, do you have. Do you have any other moments like that where you remember feeling like, this, like, explosion of like, we. We did it. We just did that.
- [78:17]
B
We said it. I had that, actually, when we wrote Team. I was, like, so happy because it is so. Like, this is. Yeah, it is just the amazing thing about pop music is it's just so. Yeah, you just, like, get the catharsis in this crazy way. Like, I heard that chorus, and I was like, this works on me. This is doing something so right. Amazing. And. I don't know. I was proud.
- [78:50]
A
Well, Lord. Well, do I call you Ella?
- [78:55]
B
Ella. Yeah.
- [78:55]
A
Ella. Okay. Okay. Because I was meaning to ask that the entire time, and now I'm just. Ella, thank you so much for being here and doing this with me. I cannot tell you how grateful I am. Before I let you go what did we learn today?
- [79:14]
B
We learned to celebrate ourselves. We were. We learned to, I don't know, enjoy the little things we learned to. That it's cool to be vulnerable and that that's where the magic is. And, yeah, I really want you to do a lot of kissing. That's what I want. That's.
- [79:41]
A
I think. I think I'm.
- [79:43]
B
That's what I'm taking away from this. I'm going to be checking in if.
- [79:46]
A
I can get your number after this. Yeah, I'm going to text every time I hook up with someone. Yeah. So just be like, hey, just letting you know. Any excuse to text you. I think I learned. God, no. I just had it, and now I just blinked because I think I got excited to get your number, but I think I learned. I learned to listen to your body. That's what I learned. I learned that it's important to listen to your body. Well, Ella, thank you for coming on, therapist. I adore you. I'm such a huge fan, and this is, like, the coolest thing that ever happened to me.
- [80:23]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [80:24]
A
Do you want to give a little. Bye, pussies?
- [80:26]
B
Bye.