Session 78: Maren Morris

Summary

Podcast Summary: Therapuss with Jake Shane - Session 78: Maren Morris

Episode Details:

• Title: Therapuss with Jake Shane
• Guest: Maren Morris
• Release Date: June 19, 2025
• Episode: Session 78

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Introduction and Welcome

Jake Shane kicks off the episode with enthusiasm, expressing his admiration for Maren Morris and highlighting her impactful songs. He references her track "The Bones," which served as a source of comfort during the COVID pandemic, and introduces her new album, "Dreamsicle," urging listeners to stream it.

"Her song 'The Bones' got me through, like, a lot of COVID. It was really, really important to me." [00:40]

**"Dreamsicle" Album Discussion

Maren Morris delves into her new album, discussing its title and thematic essence. She emphasizes the universality of love explored in the album, encompassing romantic, familial, and platonic relationships.

"It's a love song, but feels really like it could be any type of love: romantic love, friend love, family love. Because I actually wrote it about my son who's five now." [03:26]

The conversation highlights the genre-fluid nature of "Dreamsicle," showcasing Maren's evolution from country roots to a more pop-oriented sound.

"I've stretched myself out of a comfort zone with this one, working with Naomi McPherson from MUNA. It's a lot more pop." [17:22]

Performance Highlights and Collaborations

Maren recounts her recent performances, including three sets following Coachella: a Thursday night show, a collaboration with the LA Philharmonic alongside Gustavo Dudamel, and a set with Zed. She shares her experience performing "My Church" with a full orchestra, describing the emotional and immersive environment.

"It was at golden hour. Like, the set was just so beautiful. And yesterday was my bedrock recovery day." [04:46]

She also reflects on collaborating with Taylor Swift, detailing how they recorded the song "You All Over Me" in Hawaii. Maren praises the intimate connection she felt during their performance at the ERAS Tour in Chicago.

"She brings you in such an intimate way and makes you feel like, safe." [12:07]

Navigating the Music Industry and Personal Growth

The discussion shifts to Maren's journey in the music industry, her transition from independent releases to signing with a major label at 25, and her desire to avoid being pigeonholed by genre.

"I don't want to be pigeonholed in the sound of 'My Church.' I want to show people what I'm doing on this full record." [16:09]

Maren opens up about her experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, including postponing her tour and dealing with postpartum depression. She emphasizes the importance of self-worth beyond her career and shares how this period led to personal growth and a balanced life.

"I've learned that you have to stop attaching your worth to what you do, your work." [62:09]

**"The Bones" and Its Impact

Maren discusses the creation and significance of "The Bones," a song that became an anthem during the pandemic. She describes how the song's universal message resonated globally, leading to unexpected success and emotional performances.

"It felt like that scene in 'Josie and the Pussycats' where suddenly they're number one. It felt so unrealistic." [26:32]

She also shares her collaboration with Hozier on a duet version of the song, highlighting the song's multiple lives and enduring popularity.

"The song 'The Bones' has had many lives. It's still everywhere, in every store, every commercial." [24:57]

Touring and Live Performances

Maren expresses her passion for touring, describing the joy and fulfillment she finds in live performances. She reminisces about her initial days touring in vans and her progression to a Sprinter van and then a bus, symbolizing her career's growth.

"I love my bus. It's such a step up because I started in 15 passenger shitty vans." [85:12]

She highlights the transformative experience of performing at festivals like Bonnaroo and Coachella, noting the unique vibes and connections formed during these events.

"Seeing Mumford and Sons at Bonnaroo in 2015 was a transformative experience for me." [42:26]

Personal Reflections and Future Plans

Maren shares insights into her personal life, including her recent divorce and the challenges of co-parenting. She discusses the importance of surrounding herself with supportive friends and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

"I'm so glad that this is not all about grief and a lot about what happens after, which is messy and funny and all the things." [63:56]

Looking ahead, she reveals plans for touring her new album and releasing a children's book, expressing excitement for the future after overcoming significant personal and professional hurdles.

"I'm gearing up for this fourth record that's taken so much to write and get out. Coachella just felt like a victory lap." [63:56]

Audience Interaction: "Tell Me What's Wrong"

In an interactive segment, Jake Shane and Maren Morris address audience-submitted questions, offering advice and insights into various personal dilemmas. This segment underscores the therapeutic and supportive nature of the show.

Audience Member: "I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. I ended up getting a boyfriend and my guy friend has been super respectful and sweet about it, but I lowkey still have feelings. So long story short, I cheated with my guy best friend and I don't know what to tell my boyfriend. Please help." [54:12]

Maren Morris: "It sounds like you want to be with your guy friend. You need to block now. He's a father, and he's not for you." [55:37]

Closing Thoughts

As the episode concludes, Jake Shane and Maren Morris reflect on the conversations they've had, expressing mutual appreciation and highlighting the importance of personal growth, resilience, and supportive relationships.

"I have a lot of grace for Millennials. We have to have integrity lessons and build self-worth." [86:57]

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Notable Quotes:

1. "It's the best compliment in the entire world to be like, you smell good." – Maren Morris [02:24]
2. "Music that just takes you out of your own head for a moment. That's the point." – Jake Shane [18:37]
3. "You have to stop attaching your worth to what you do, your work." – Maren Morris [62:09]
4. "The song 'The Bones' has had many lives. It's still everywhere, in every store, every commercial." – Maren Morris [24:57]
5. "I'm a road rat. I love my bus." – Maren Morris [85:12]

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Conclusion: In this engaging episode of Therapuss with Jake Shane, Maren Morris provides an intimate look into her musical journey, personal growth, and the challenges she's navigated both professionally and personally. The conversation seamlessly blends discussions about her latest work, live performances, and heartfelt advice to listeners, offering a rich and insightful experience for both fans and newcomers.

Transcript

[A]

I am so excited for this spa day. Candles lit, music on, hot tub warm and ready. And then my chronic hives come back again in the middle of my spa day. What a wet blanket. Looks like another spell of itchy red skin. If you have chronic spontaneous urticaria or csu, there is a different treatment option. Hives during my next spa day. Not if I can help it. Learn [e-mail].

[B]

Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapuss. Hopefully I am still in France and having a great time. And on tonight's episode of Therapuss, we have Maren Morris, who I absolutely adore. Her song the Bones got me through, like, a lot of COVID It was really, really important to me. So being able to talk to her about her new album, Dreamsicle, which is amazing and out now. So you should go stream. It was so incredible. She is so awesome. She's so cool. She also sings one of my favorite songs of all time, the Middle, obviously. And she's just like. She was so cool and fun and the. The greatest. So, yeah, hopefully we will be having a lot of fun in France. I'm. I'm supposed to be in Cannes right now, so maybe I'll be speaking on a panel or doing something fun to see if I'm coming to a city near you. Go to passthatpost.com and click Live with Jake Shane. And then to submit a Tell me what's wrong. Go to passthatpost.com and click click Tell me what's wrong and leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Love you.

[A]

You said I smelled good, which is like, you do.

[B]

What scent is that?

[A]

I just found it in New York. So I always go to, like, scent bar because they have a LA location. They have a New York one, but it was this brand. I think it's called the guy's. He's like a DJ in Chicago named Zernell Gilly. But he does these fragrances that are all like. He has one called Jazz one called hip Hop. I think he just came out with one today called R and B. But I bought the hip hop one.

[B]

And that's what you're wearing?

[A]

Yeah, it gave me, like, summer vibes.

[B]

I think I need a new scent. You know when you're like, I need a new scent.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's like a changeover of look and life is just a new smell and everything. I know you feel like I have a new personality today, literally. You should. It makes me feel so much Better when I, like, change it up.

[B]

It is the best compliment in the entire world to be like, you smell good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I kept getting that at Coachella, and I was like, thank you so much.

[A]

Oh, my God. What were you wearing?

[B]

I think I was just wearing this, like, Tom Ford perfume and, like, my. I was putting on a bunch of deodorant. All the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that was it.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say, like, Irish Spring. Like, of course.

[B]

Like, what's Irish Spring?

[A]

It's like a bar soap. Like, classic. Like, dude bar soap.

[B]

No. Yeah. I wear Old Spice, though.

[A]

Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's a classic for a reason.

[B]

It is a classic. Okay, wait, so you have a new album coming out May 9th?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dreamsicle.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm so excited. I listened to it this morning. It's incredible.

[A]

Thank you. Oh, so it's fresh in your ears?

[B]

It's fresh in my ears. I'm obsessed with. Because, of course. Oh, because, of course.

[A]

Because, duh.

[B]

Because, of course. I just love the title as well. Like, it's just like. Because of course.

[A]

I think. Because it's one of those sayings sometimes my country music brain will kick in of just, like, things we say to each other. Even, like, with my song the Bones, it's like when the bones are good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We turn so many turns of phrases into songs, and that's kind of like, what the. Because of course I was like, how could I apply this in a way that is a love song, but feels really like it could be any type of love? Like, romantic love, friend love, family love? Because I actually wrote it about my son who's five now, and I was like, I'm always gonna love you. Because, of course.

[B]

Right? Because, of course. Is that, like, a country thing to do? Like, when you pick a phrase and make a song out of it?

[A]

I think. Yeah. Because it's like, so much of it is clever turns of phrases. When I think about Dolly Parton or Loretta, it's always like, some everyday saying that they've made into a song, and then it becomes even more solidified in the. In the ethos as it stands, this is day after Coachella.

[B]

Yeah. Right now, we are doing the day after Coachella. And you performed, technically, three times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You did it. You did it Thursday night. You did the LA Philharmonic, and then you did Zed.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I forgot about Thursday. Yeah. It was a full week. And I was like, for someone not on this lineup, you might as well have been. I was, like, asked, I mean, by both people, like, I was gonna do the Zed thing. Like, they asked me months ago if I would come out, and I was like, yes, of course. Because. Of course. But then.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

But then LA Philharmonic reached out a few weeks ago, and they were like, we're having a bunch of guest artists come in and sit in with Gustavo Dudamel, the conductor of the LA Phil. And they were like, what song would you want to do with this giant orchestra and gospel choir? And I was like, well, I have a song called My Church, and that feels like it would fit perfectly. And it was at golden hour. Like, the set was just so beautiful. And, yeah, I was busy. I was like, yesterday was my bedrock recovery day.

[B]

Do you like to. Did you watch anything when you bedroted yesterday?

[A]

I caught up on Black Mirror.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Except I have one episode left.

[B]

Oh, my God. You just saved my day. I totally forgot there's a new Black Mirror season.

[A]

Yeah, you have to.

[B]

Is it good?

[A]

I really like it so far. Yeah. I mean, I need to watch the USS Callister sequel episode.

[B]

Oh, there's a sequel to that?

[A]

There is in the season. Excited. Because I loved the first one. But, yeah, after this, go binge, because.

[B]

I finished my show last night.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

Do you have. You've seen the Leftovers?

[A]

Like the one on hbo? Yeah, I haven't in a very long time, but I love that you're going back into that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Archive.

[B]

I went back into it and I. I finished. I watched all of season three yesterday.

[A]

Oh, cool.

[B]

And it was just like my life was changed.

[A]

That is the last thing I thought you were gonna say.

[B]

What did you think I was gonna say?

[A]

I don't know, like, White Lotus or I guess Last of us premiered last night, so I gotta catch up.

[B]

Well, I watched the Leftovers because of White Lotus, because of Carrie Coon.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And I was like. They were like, well, she's also in the Leftovers. And I was like, huh, Might as well give it a try. But you're a Bravo girl, aren't you?

[A]

So good. I am, yeah. Not like, as hardcore as you think. I think I'm a loyalist to Beverly Hills. And then I think recently just became more obsessed with Below Deck. But I've been on Watch what happens live five or six times now, and I. I feel like a Bravo Liberty at this point.

[B]

I feel like a. Being a Bravo Liberty is like my life goal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's the coolest thing on planet Earth.

[A]

I think someone was talking about it like a serious actor because now they'll do those. Those retellings, and they'll have, like, Ralph Fiennes come in and do a scene from Salt Lake City. Actually, I was just on there last week with Elizabeth Moss.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And she did a dramatic reading of a Sutton Strack.

[B]

That's incredible scene.

[A]

Yeah. It was insane.

[B]

Do you have a favorite Beverly Hills castmate?

[A]

I've watched since season one. And, like, I've always loved Kyle, and, you know, her family dynamic is crazy, but, like, she's someone I've met in real life and is very friendly and warm and, like, normal and. But I think, like, they always ask me, like, who would I bring back? And my answer is always Lisa Vanderpump.

[B]

My answer is always Brandi.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. I love her. I just, like, I. Okay. I love Lisa Vanderpump. My issue with Lisa Vanderpump was that she couldn't take the heat when she got called out. The second she got called out, she left.

[A]

I know. Like, did she even go to the reunion?

[B]

No, she left mid season and fudged off.

[A]

That's right. She was like, I'm done. I'm going to Vanderpump Rules.

[B]

Which is also the best.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I just miss the, like, maybe it's not so much her and her clever quips and the interviews I miss, but I miss that era of Housewives. Like, Beverly Hills, where it was, like, Taylor and Kim.

[B]

Yes. Bonkers Kim was. Oh, I loved him.

[A]

Oh, my God. Such good tv.

[B]

I just feel like seasons one through, like, four of Beverly Hills are, like, really golden.

[A]

Oh, my God. We were fed.

[B]

Fed deeply.

[A]

It was so much, like, really dark, heavy stuff, too. Like season two.

[B]

Oh, that's the darkest season of Housewives I've ever seen.

[A]

Insane that they put that on television. I mean, it's. It was incredible, Yolanda. Oh, you'll love, like, pre Hadid takeover.

[B]

It was just Beverly Hills is Beverly Hills is. I watch Beverly Hills and I watch. Do you watch Salt Lake?

[A]

A little bit. It's, like, one of those things where I need the full bandwidth to absorb a new cast, but.

[B]

Right. Yeah, you gotta get involved with Salt Lake.

[A]

I've heard it's, like, top tier. One of the best of the franchise. It's.

[B]

Right now. It is the best, in my opinion. Like, it is the basic. There's, like, an FBI arrest on camera. There's, like. There's everything you could want in a Housewives show.

[A]

Okay, Sick. I'm in.

[B]

Speaking of FBI, I think Teresa is going to jail again. Maybe.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

For Taxes again. I know. It's like you can't escape it with. It's like the housewife curse.

[A]

I know. Like, don't. Don't go on camera. Everything's going to be unearthed.

[B]

Everything. Yeah, everything. And that's what happened with Jen Shaw.

[A]

That's what I heard.

[B]

Yeah. She got arrested on camera on a sprinter van. It was seriously the. One of the most that made me watch the show. Yeah, they were like, she got arrested.

[A]

Oh, I remember who I was thinking of, the serious actor I saw in an interview recently. Tom Hardy was talking about Below Deck or something, and I was like, you're watching Bravo. I'm obsessed.

[B]

In your mind, who's the hottest house husband?

[A]

Well, I can only talk about Beverly Hills because that's like, the only people I know. I mean, like, I met Mauricio in Aspen, actually.

[B]

Yep. Checks out.

[A]

Yeah, it was like, years ago, and it was with the whole family. Kyle, all the daughters. So beautiful, so sweet. And he was really nice. Like, you know, he's drop dead gorgeous. Yeah, he's. He's looking good.

[B]

He's looking good. Can I ask you about. You are on one of my. My favorite Taylor Swift vault tracks of all time.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. You All Over Me is one of my favorite vault tracks.

[A]

Oh, my God. Thank you. Well, I, Like, I didn't write the song, but I was like, thank you.

[B]

No, it's. No, but you're on it.

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was bonkers because, like, I think it was deep. Deep COVID pandemic still. I was in Hawaii, and that was pretty locked down, too, but my producer, Greg Kirsten was out there during lockdown, and it was my first trip out of Nashville since COVID and I brought my son, who was like a year at the time. And I remember recording like, Taylor's team had reached out about doing a song on Fearless, like the re release, and Fearless is like, my favorite Taylor album, so I was just freaking out. And it's such a beautiful song. It's also so reminiscent of how I discovered her and the age I was when I discovered her. And she and I are the same age, but I was just jolted right back into, like, high school. Me. And no, I mean, it was just so cool to be I. So I recorded my vocal in Hawaii for you All Over Me. It came out still kind of pandemicy, but then she. She had me out at the ERAs tour, the Chicago Run, and I got to do that song with her. It's. I've never. Well, not that I'm always On a stadium stage, but just an acoustic song in the middle of that many people. And that energy and excitement, it was just so, like, it's such a respectful crowd because they are wanting to hear every lyric and every word. Nuance. And she does all these new songs each time, so they are. They don't want to miss a second. And it just felt so loving where it was.

[B]

Everyone screaming the lyrics back.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, in a respectful.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Nice volume. Because they were like. They wanted to hear her. But I think, no, it was. It was insane. Just very out of this world. But, you know, she has that about her where she's aware of the magnitude of her, but then she will bring you in in such an intimate way and make you feel, like, safe, because.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's a very jarring concept. I mean, it's an artist that, you know, has toured a very long time. I'm in, like, theaters, amphitheaters, you know, that's kind of my vibe. To kind of come out of the hydraulic lift and then the mile of catwalk to her. I mean, it's a lot. I'm, like, out of breath by the time I get to the end. And we have to, like, sing the song. And she's doing it, you know, five hours every night.

[B]

But I don't know how she did that because the show is so fudgeing.

[A]

Long dancing, singing production, singing outfit changes. I mean, the stage. I remember on the Reputation tour, I was out. She asked me kindly, like, out to do the middle back in 2018, I remember. Or whenever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And even during sound check on the Reputation tour at, like, Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, which is where I'm from, I was out of breath. And she's just got that stamina from doing it so much. I was like, okay, I need to. I need to start doing cardio or something on this kind of stage. But no, I have to imagine, like, what that does to your body and. And voice, like, that many hours. Three in a row. Show three.

[B]

She did, like, six in LA with, like, one day off.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And I was like, how are you doing? This was. She's so lovely to work with, though.

[A]

She is, yeah. And she's just such a normal person. And I know, like, I don't think I would be able to be normal at that level because. And especially being famous since right childhood, I think I would have already had a mental breakdown. Been in their rehab, like, like, long before.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The fact that she's just so grounded and so much of that I think it's like having her family out, like, close people around her. Like, she's so loyal to. Like, she's had the same team for so long.

[B]

For the entire time.

[A]

I know. It's really rare.

[B]

Yeah. And it's. Yeah. I'm obsessed with her, obviously.

[A]

So you went to the la.

[B]

I went three in la and then I went one in Vegas.

[A]

Amaz. Amazing.

[B]

And then I was supposed to go in Vancouver and I couldn't make it.

[A]

Oh, dang it.

[B]

And I was super upset.

[A]

I. I saw two of the. The. No, wait, no. Yeah. I saw two of the shows on the ERAS tour and. Because I went to the Jersey one just as a fan.

[B]

Was that MetLife?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God, I'm so jealous. I wanted to go to that. She released You're Losing Me that week, and I wanted to see it so bad. And I. She was only selling that song on CDs at the MetLife Show.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And I was in Singapore.

[A]

I should have got you.

[B]

Well, I have one now.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. But did you. Do you have a favorite Taylor Swift song?

[A]

I mean, I. I'm such a nostalgia addict that I always go back to the ones that I would psychotically listen to and it would just crawl into my brain. I feel like Love Story was the first song where I was like, this feels pop.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's her and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It just kind of broke these walls of genre in my brain of like, okay, anything can be anything. It's just as long as she's the guiding compass of it. And I think that had a lot to do with me feeling fearless, you know, in my work and, like, not worrying about, is this, you know, to this or that, is this still going to be country? Like, you know, just genre bending. And it was a huge hit. I feel like everything I'm going to pull is out of Fearless.

[B]

No, it's. It was. It's your album. Everyone has that one album with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you feel like you're. Because I was. I feel like I couldn't pinpoint a genre on Dreamsicle It. Do you. Do you feel as well that it's very genre bending?

[A]

Yeah. But, I mean, I think all of my records have had that, you know, going in it. Because I put my church out in 2015 and, like, that was very soulful country kind of gospel in moments. And then my next single after that was my song 80s Mercedes, which was completely different, sonically, than my church. And I did that intentionally because I was like, I don't want to be pigeonholed in the sound of my church. I want to show people what I'm doing on this full record. And 80s was very popular pop, synthy, you know, but still kind of like nostalgic, you know, Nashville lyrical to me, but no. So I think all my records have had that element of genre fluidity. But, yeah, with this one, it feels like I stretched myself out of a comfort zone of what that is. And I worked with Naomi McPherson from MUNA.

[B]

Oh, I love Muna so much.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I worked with them on my song Push Me over, which is on the record and was on the ep. And then I worked with Naomi again for Cry in the Car. And I just, like, it was the best two days. And I mean, I. I was like, I. I would love to continue along that path with them, but, yeah, I mean, that's a lot more pop. But then you'll have moments like I did Holy Smoke and Grand Bouquet with Jack Antonoff, and that's, like, extremely, you know, in moments, country, a little bit like Elliot Smith vibes on Grand Bouquet. I don't know. It's like, it's all over the place in a way that makes sense to me. And for me, I.

[B]

It's. I was obsessed with it. I was listening to it all morning. It's incredible.

[A]

Thanks. It's so weird to, like, talk to someone who's heard it, because I feel like not many people have, except for my closest friends and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Team. But, yeah. I'm so glad you like it.

[B]

No, I love it. It was. It was so. It, like, made. I was having the worst morning, and it, like, made my morning so much more enjoyable.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's such a high compliment. I mean, it's such a mood shift, like music that just takes you out of your own head for a moment. That's, like, the point.

[B]

But that's, like, my favorite thing in the entire world. I really. I feel like I connect with music the most when it's like, in a TV show I'm watching and, like, it's like there's a sink that's super powerful.

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, like, of course, the one that comes to mind is, you know, what made me obsessed with Imogen Heap was, like, the O.C.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I was like, who? What is this? And then it started like a, you know, 20 year obsession with her.

[B]

Well, you. I was about to say, you've been doing this for 20 years. It wasn't your first album. It was independent, and it was in 2005. Right?

[A]

Yeah. Wow, that's crazy.

[B]

You're 15 years old.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, I was a baby, but I had been playing shows and kind of touring since I was 12.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Yeah. So it's been a very long road, I think. I did not get my. I didn't sign with a major label Till I was 25. So it was, you know, thank God. Like, thank God. Like, those independent releases were just kind of for the. The community I had in Texas. But I was not anywhere ready to be on a world stage or any way public facing back then. So I was like, I consider myself lucky because I feel like at 25, 26, you have gotten out of those, like, insecure, ish years of not knowing who you are, having identity as an artist or woman or person. And then by then I was just like, very confident in what I had to say. And, you know, I. I was also, like, I had the leverage of my church kind of already streaming really well. And so my label just really respected and, you know, my wishes for what the sound was going to be and the. The visuals and, you know, they really let me cook.

[B]

They let you cook?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you think my church was like your memoir? You're like, I made it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that started everything for me, right? That song, and it was my first single. It won me a Grammy. I remember that whole first year just doing all of these things that felt even bigger than country music. Like, I don't know, just going to the Grammys was really insane. And then doing snl, like, just through that song, it brought so much in so little time to my life, and it introduced me to the world. And I mean, I think it was a couple years later when I did the Middle with Zed, and that was kind of like a new version of Whoa. Like, this music is beyond the States. It's right worldwide. So I've had a few of those moments in my career of like, holy.

[B]

Did you. Sorry to rub you.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Did I.

[A]

This is your show.

[B]

No, but you are the guest. I have, like, the worst problem with interrupting people. I'm like, really trying to work on it. I feel like I've gotten better, though.

[A]

Yeah, you've been lovely.

[B]

You're lovely.

[A]

You're such a pro.

[B]

Oh, you. I'm assessed with you. I think I can hang out with you all day.

[A]

I know. I was like, I'm surprised we're talking about music because I'm glad the first part of this interview is just bravo.

[B]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

The important stuff.

[B]

Yes. Wait, so did you when you did the middle? Like, okay, like, when you're, like, making a song like that? Because I also listened to that this morning again, and I was like, what a classic that is. You know, like, what a classic. Like, it's a classic. That song's a classic. Did you know in the studio, you were like, I've just made a classic with someone.

[A]

I didn't write the middle. I was sent the demo for it years ago. I was on vacation, and I had been sent a few songs before just through other people's teams of, like, would Marin want to be a part of this? Because this was, like, a very interesting time in music and in country music where people were starting to do collaborations with pop people.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And, you know, that's always been a thing. You know, it's like, I go back to Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt and Emmy Lou Harris doing the trio record, Willie Nelson and Ray Charles. I mean, there have been these collaborations over the decades that are extremely genre bending and historic. But anywho, like, fast forward to this era of, like, country artists collaborating with DJs and big pop people. I think, like, Florida Georgia Line was. They had that song with B.B. rexha.

[B]

Holy. Oh. Meant to be. Sorry. I'm seriously about to chop my own head off.

[A]

I literally said it was a song of those up.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. I said it with such confidence.

[A]

Yeah. Holy. Oh, my gosh. Meant to Be. I can't remember if Meant to Be was already out or it was about to come out, but I'd been sent a few songs of, like, would Marin want to put her vocal on this or finish the second verse and vocal on it? And nothing just connected with me thus far. And then I was sent the demo for the middle, and I did, like. I didn't know who was singing on the demo, but I was like, this person's amazing. Like, why are they looking for outside, right? Singers? Like, whoever is already on this is. I don't know how anyone could beat this or recreate it even. And they were like, that's the co writer of the song, Sarah Aarons. She's not an artist. Like, she's. She's a writer, but she. Yeah, she sings her ass off. And I was like, you know what? I cannot stop listening to this. I'm listening through my, like, phone speaker on the beach, and I go back to Nashville and I put, like, a rough vocal on it just to, like, send it in and be like, do they even. Does my voice even make sense with this song? And they were like, they love it. Zed's team loves it. But there's a couple other people that are doing this for the song, and I think they're gonna go with this other girl. And I was like, oh, well, you know, right. Happens. It is what it is. Moving on. And then, like, two weeks later, they were like, something happened. Like, that girl dropped out or something. I don't know. It has another song coming out. She doesn't want to compete with it. They would love you to put, like, a proper, polished, finished vocal on this. And I was like, I don't know. Like, they passed on me, right? I was feeling a little bit, you know, petty. Salty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, maybe it's just not meant to be if they've passed on me. And my manager, Janet, she was like, you love the song, right? And I was like, I do. Just, like, just. It would be a huge thing, and they already have this huge plan behind it. Like, they want to shoot the video in two days. They're gonna premiere it at the Grammys during the commercial break. You know, it. It's already got, like, momentum. They're ready to go. You just need to sing it. And I was like, all right. And Zed flew out to Nashville, and we, like, cut the vocal. The day he landed, spent a couple hours in the studio. I had not met him, and he was so sweet and such a gentleman, but also, like, really particular about what he wanted because he just. We all loved Sarah's demo, But it was so funny because, like, I met Sarah at the Grammys, like, when everything was getting, you know, premiered and we'd done the video, and she's Australian, Such a funny little badass. Like, she's my height. And we kind of realized because we started writing after that, and we wrote my song girl, and, like, she's just. She and I have very similar vocal tones. Like, we're a little bit smoky alto. So I think there's a reason why Zed heard my vocal fitting it so well because of Sarah. But, no, it was just one of those moments where I sort of, like, always talk about when the middle came out overnight. It was everywhere, really.

[B]

Like, you woke up, and it was just suddenly, like, it was number one and everything. Everyone was freaking out.

[A]

I don't think it was number one yet, but it was like, I was. See, people send me videos of, like, them in their cab in, like, Taiwan, right? Hearing it, and I was like, holy. And it felt like that scene in Josie and the Pussycats were, like, all of a sudden they're like, we're number one in the world. And it was like so unrealistic. But that's kind of how it felt. And then, I don't know, it was just off to the races after that. It was like our song was everywhere. It was in every store, commercial, like it was bonkers. But I mean, it brought like a world of people to my music.

[B]

Right. What do you think? How did your life change like after that song came out? I mean, I had already won a Grammy. Yeah, you're already a Grammy award winning artist.

[A]

Yeah. And like I was known in my, you know, community and like country music, but then. And I had been touring overseas and whatnot. But like that when you have a song, I mean like pop music, edm, that's just such a global type of music. Country, like only in the last few years has become that sort of popular. But yeah, no, I mean, being a part of it, it changed my life. And then singing it at Coachella the other night was just so insane because just, it's like, of course he has so many hits in his set. But you just know when that song kicks off, it's. It's a moment and with all the like fire and just you could actually. I could hear like the vibration of how loud the crowd was, which is hard when you have in your monitors in and you're like so far from them. It was that loud. So I was just like, it's one of those evergreen songs that it is sticks around.

[B]

Well, it's a timeless song too. Cuz there are no. I mean I could be totally wrong, but I feel like there's no references cuz like I feel like what makes a timeless song is like a song that could technically be released in any year, any time. Cuz like kind of like 1989 by Taylor Swift. Like there's no references to cell phones. Cell phones or anything. So like. Or Tik Tok. And like it's just like such a timeless, perfect song.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah, it's like very rare in a career that you get maybe one of those or a couple. But yeah, that was one that. I don't know. It's just stood the test of time. It's been like six, seven years and it still hits. So fun.

[B]

It still hits. I'm so mad I missed that set. I was, I was already home.

[A]

Oh dang it.

[B]

I was already home. I woke up, I went out Saturday night. I got home at 5am and I was like, fuck this.

[A]

What did you do till five I don't know.

[B]

I seriously don't know. I think I was just dancing because.

[A]

After the, like, Coachella lineup ends, there's, like, more to do, right? There's, like a. Yeah.

[B]

There's like, an Ivy. Charlie had an after party, and so I went there, and it was just, like. It really kicked off, and, like. And I was flirting with this guy the whole night, and, like, I was like, I just.

[A]

I'm not going home until the sun comes up.

[B]

Until the sun comes up. Those are my.

[A]

You deserve that, though.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Fun night out.

[B]

Thank you. I had one of my most fun nights out, though, in Nashville the other week.

[A]

Yeah?

[B]

Yeah. I went to Losers.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

It was very fun.

[A]

I have frequented that bar many times in my 12 years of living there. I actually started writing. I have a song on my first record called I Could Use a Love Song, and it was technically my first number one song because my church didn't go number one. Um, but I started writing it at Losers.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I was, like, with my co writers, and it was 11am but we were all having, like, the worst morning, and one of us had a flat tire or got a ticket on the way. It was just, like, something was off. And we were like, should we just walk across the street and, like, get a beer? It feels like that kind of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we started that, and then. No, we just, like, started through conversation, like, talking about these lyrics to what we could write that day. And we walked across the street and, like, wrote it in 45 minutes, did the vocal demo, everything done. And then I think we went back to Losers and had another beer.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

It's just, you know, Nashville, y' all.

[B]

It is Nashville. I love Nashville. Yeah.

[A]

I'm glad.

[B]

I've been Twice.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've had. Okay, wait. So I went to this. Where have I gone? I've gone out to some really good restaurants there. I. I There. I went to this, like, new Chinese restaurant there. It was amazing. I totally forget what it's called, of course.

[A]

I mean, there's. The food in Nashville is insane.

[B]

It is insane in the.

[A]

In the last decade that I've lived there, because it was so. It was starting to pop off when I first moved there 12 years ago because the show Nashville had just started.

[B]

I've never seen that show.

[A]

I mean, it's. It's iconic.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's a. It's. It's basically like a primetime soap.

[B]

I know. I've heard. It's amazing. And it's a.

[A]

Music is so good.

[B]

It's with what's her name?

[A]

It's Connie Britton. Chip Eston. Like, it's a great cast, but, like, the music is so good because everything for the soundtrack and the show is written by Nashville songwriters. So everything's about how songs are made on music grow.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And how they become hits. I mean, I will say they. They dramatize it a little.

[B]

Of course. It's like how Scandal dramatizes the White House.

[A]

Yeah. But, like, if you're a songwriter and you get, like, your first cut, like a song that makes it onto an album, it's not even a single. Like, you're not getting paid.

[B]

Oh. Oh, really?

[A]

Unless it's a single.

[B]

Right, right, right. But how old were you when you moved to Nashville?

[A]

I think I was 23.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah. So I've been there since then. And, I mean, all my, like, best friends that I met through those co writes that, you know, co writes are like blind dates, because.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

You are meeting someone, and you're supposed to pour each other's hearts out within moments of meeting each other, because it's like, hey, where are you from? Here. Okay, so I have this song about how I tried to kill myself three years ago. Like, Right. That's what you're doing that day. And. But that's how you meet people really quick, and you, like, realize if you're, you know, gonna be besties for life or if you just repel one another and have no chemistry.

[B]

Have you ever had that experience where you've had, like, literally no chemistry and it's been like pulling teeth to write a song with?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's. I'll always try to finish a song, even if the day or the song sucks. But there's, like, those occasions where even with people that I love writing with, sometimes it's just not there. And you're trying to write and write all day. Maybe you'll, like, go to lunch and come back to it, and then you're just like, guys, this sucks. Like, everything we're writing is dog. Let's just go. Like, we'll try again next time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then you'll also have, you know, first timers with people where you're like, I hate this whole process with you. Like, I think we can just. We're not meant to work together.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was the. Was the bones an easy song to write, or was that one you had.

[A]

To come back to that was an easy song? I feel like some of my biggest songs have been the ones that came easily, strangely enough.

[B]

But that would make sense, I feel like.

[A]

I guess. Yeah. But it was. It was just an idea. So my co writers on that song, Laura Veltz, Jimmy Robbins, we had written hundreds of songs together that I love. Like, they were the ones I went to the bar with. Yeah. So we had such a rapport. But then the Bones was an idea that Laura brought in because she and her husband were looking for a house, and she was like, there's this thing our realtor keeps saying, like, if the house is, like, kind of shitty, they're like, yeah, but the bones are good. So she was like, I just keep hearing that this week. I feel like we should write about it as a relationship. And so that's what we did. And I think it was one of those songs that was done in under an hour. And then I did the vocal, and I don't think I realized in the moment that it was that kind of special. I was like, because maybe I write so much with them. Everything we write is kind of special. But then it wasn't until I was playing it for people, like, just like, friends. They're like, oh, can I hear the bones again?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's kind of when I know that they're, like, my focus group of, like, what songs are gonna do. But no, it just. That was a slow burner of a. Like, it came out. I realized on tour, every time that guitar part would kick in at the intro, the crowd would freak out, and I was like, this feels like it should be the next single if this is how people are reacting. And it ended up being, like, my first kind of country into pop crossover song that ended up on, like, the Hot 100. And other than the middle. But, like, this was my song.

[B]

This was your own.

[A]

I wrote. So no. And then we did, like, a. I just kind of. Towards the end, I was like, they're like, we would love to do, like, a special version of this song. And I was, like, on tour, and my friend Rachel Beauregard, who is singing with Hozier on tour at this moment, like, reached out to me, and she was like, andrew is, like, humming this all the time. And I was like, maybe I'll just. I never do this, like, have the. This, you know, the gall to reach out to artists that I love. But I was like, I'm just gonna see if Hozier would want to do a duet version of the Bones. And he said yes and did it, like, within two days.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. It's just had, like, many lives.

[B]

It really. That was my covet song.

[A]

Your Covet Yeah.

[B]

Well, yeah.

[A]

It went number one right at the beginning of COVID Yeah. Which was, like, very bittersweet because it was like, yay. But also, we can't have a party.

[B]

Yeah. We can't do anything.

[A]

Yeah. It was just my co writers and I did, like, a zoom champagne toast. It was such a bummer. But then I had so many people reach out to me during COVID saying that that song meant so much to them.

[B]

It really did.

[A]

About, like, the world at that moment in time. But I couldn't tour and enjoy the success of the song until, like, 2022. And that was kind of when I got my flowers for it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just felt that, like, energy from the crowd singing it back. And it was so emotional.

[B]

It's just such a comforting song. I feel like it was like. Because it, you know, is like, as long as, like, the bones of what. Like, because we were all so away from each other. So as long as, like, our. The bones of our. All of our relationships were good, like, we'd all be fine.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. It kind of felt like a world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anthem of, like, we're in the home stretch of the hard times and it's gonna be all right.

[B]

God, sometimes I'm like, I really. Do you, like, look through the past with rose colored glasses as well?

[A]

I mean, yeah, because I'm delusional. So rose colored glasses are always on for me. But I think because I just love. And maybe it's like the millennial in me, but we love nostalgia.

[B]

But me too. And I was thinking, like, Harry Potter. Yeah.

[A]

Like, we're gonna get a Disney Adults.

[B]

Yeah. The whole. All of it.

[A]

Yeah. All the cliches are true.

[B]

I was just thinking. I was like, sometimes I, like, miss quarantine and I miss Covid. But then, like, I do too. Did you enjoy it?

[A]

I mean, I. Okay, I'm coming at this a little bit different from you because I was nine months pregnant.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

In March of 2020.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So I did the Houston Rodeo, which, like, if you're from Texas, that's a huge deal.

[B]

We didn't go. We didn't go. I was. I had a tour date that week and why didn't we go?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

God, I'm such a loser.

[A]

In 2020.

[B]

Or like, recently, literally, like four weeks ago.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's. It's a moment. It's just like the stage revolves while you're on it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And I was, like, nine months pregnant and I was, like, terrified. I Was gonna go into labor.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or fall, like, on this revolving stage. I mean, it's like moving slowly, but it's like a 360 stage. But yeah, I gave birth like, that next week, I think. And it was while everything was starting to shut down and we were just. I mean, my ex and I were just like, what are we gonna do?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Is our family even gonna be able to meet our child? But then, like, as months passed and we're like, in quarantine, we were already gonna be stuck at home because of a newborn. But then it was kind of nice because it was like, I want this time to myself with my baby. And I don't want to feel like, that guilt of missing out on things. And I didn't. Yeah. But there are moments too, like, I just miss just that whole, like, era of music performances and comedy and tick tock and everything was just its own chamber of pop culture in that moment.

[B]

It was such a. Everything was so. I think it's because everything was so maybe like, universal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because everyone was doing the same thing at the same time. Everyone was watching Outer Banks at the same time. Everyone was watching Tiger King at the same time. Everyone. You know, it was just.

[A]

So we're all, like, cooking for the first time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was just like everyone was experiencing this thing on a world level. And there was something really deeply comforting about that.

[B]

So strange. I feel like, God, it just. I. I mean, I never want to do it again.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But.

[A]

But like, it sucked because it's like you can't go and tour. You can't go to shows. I think the music industry was hit so hard because. Well, at least like, in a live sense, because, right. You can still go, like, stream a movie or. You know, they moved everything to streaming during that moment in time. But yeah, like, the touring industry was just, like, shot. Yeah. Because, like, the crew, even, like local venue crew, they can't go to work. There's just like so much was paused. And I feel like even now it's been five years, it's still like, it. It took so long to get it back on the rails.

[B]

I feel like it's just now, though, coming back a little bit really hard. Like, I've seen so many live shows in the past, like, year and two years. And like, I just. I love live music.

[A]

That's how much I realized I loved it.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

We didn't get to do it and.

[B]

Like, I feel like my. My favorite feeling in the world is falling in love with the song as it's performed. Live.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's. There's like. It's like, the most euphoric feeling in the entire world, and I didn't realize how much I missed that during COVID Yeah.

[A]

And they're just. There's artists and bands that, like, you might like the song, but when you hear it live, it is just a transcendent. Okay. Now, I'm a lifelong fan.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, that's just an energy that you can only have overcome or overcome you in a live setting. And it feels spiritual. I don't know.

[B]

What. Have you. What song do you think of when you think of, like, a moment like that?

[A]

I was just talking about this early. Earlier today with Glam, I was like, I saw Mumford and Sons at Bonnaroo in 2015, and I had heard all the songs, you know, Little Line man, the Cave, I Will Wait. Like, I knew those songs, but then seeing them live at Bonnaroo, which is, like, a particular experience because I've been to Coachella as, you know, an artist, but. Or, like a guest artist, actually. But Bonnaroo is a little bit more hippie. Like, same lineup sometimes as Coachella, like, on the stages, but, you know, it's just a little bit more, like, organic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I guess.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And just everyone's so happy to be there, and the crowds are wonder. I don't know. It hasn't been, like, Coachella fight, I suppose.

[B]

No, Coachella is, like. It's past the point of a music festival. I feel like a real, true music festival, respectfully, to Coachella.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I've only seen it through the lens of, like, playing a, you know, a song. But, yeah, it's. It's definitely, like, an interesting vibe in terms of going to, like, Lollapalooza or Boston Calling or Bonnaroo or, like, acl. But, yeah, I mean, but every festival has its own, like, vibe. But I will say, like, seeing Mumford at Bonnaroo in 2015 was a transformative experience for me because they are such a festival band to me. And Marcus, I didn't realize, is an incredible drummer. Oh, he gets on the drums at one point in the show, and I was like, holy. Like, I'm. I've been converted. Like, I'm a lifelong fan, and now I've, like, worked with him, but I know I was just. Those are only things that happen at music festivals.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. Just my Morning Jacket. Incredible festival experience. Kendrick. Incredible festival experience. I don't know. Like, I wonder if Taylor would ever do a festival.

[B]

She was Supposed to. Before COVID Really? She was like, supposed to throw her own, like, Lover Festival.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then I want to say she was supposed to do Glastonbury. Oh, my God. I want to say me last night, I was like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go.

[A]

And I should.

[B]

I couldn't. I'm busy over the dates that it is. And I really wanted to go so bad.

[A]

That's like a dream festival for me too.

[B]

Me too. It sounds. I think I would have the best time, but I would say that the Brits. Me more than anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

More than.

[A]

I love being over there.

[B]

It's low key. My favorite city in the world.

[A]

I just, I think because I've gone so many times, like, since I was a teenager to now and have friends that are there. It's just such a. I don't know, I just feel like a different person there. I feel like, really settled in and the food is so good. I don't know if you like, drink or if you like martinis, but I.

[B]

Fell in love with martinis. In London.

[A]

That's the place to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Duke's bar, which is, like, kind of known because if you've seen the Blake Lively, like, Simple Favor movie, she talks about how to make a Duke's Martin. Oh, so it's iconic because of, like, James Bond, everything. Yeah, it's very British. But yeah, it's like they make your martini in a little cart, table side, and it's like frozen gin. Frozen glass. No dilution. But no, it's like, I feel like you can only have one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You'll be up.

[B]

Shout out SeatGeek for sponsoring us again. They must have known I was on the road. And everyone needed tickets for to live with the exchange because the best place to get them [e-mail] Use code therapist10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order today. SeatGeek makes buying tickets for any live show so easy and so many people are on tour this summer. We have Gracie Abrams. We have Tate McCrae on her Miss Possessive World Tour, which I am personally so excited to see. We have Lord on the Virgin tour. We have so many. There's so many exciting shows to see and see. Geek has all of them, whether it be a sporting event, a music concert, a comedy show, like anything you want. Seatgeek has. And also they make buying tickets so much easier. On the website or in the app, they have a scale from 0 to 10 to show you, like, what type of deal you're getting 0 being like, obviously not the best and 10 being the best. So look for the green dots because that means you are getting a great deal. Also, click the link in my description today to download the app and have the code therapist10 automatically apply to your account. Once again, use my code therapist10 for 10% off your order. And thank you again, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. This episode of Therapist is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah. So when we are on the road, as you guys know, booking.com has saved us so many times because Matt likes to wait until the day of to book anything. None of us know why. Thankfully, Booking.com has come to the rescue because now, whenever we wake up in a new city, Matt will go on booking.com put in all of our preferences. Instead of just like going hotel by hotel, it shows you a list of hotels and rooms, and he picks the one that works for all of us and we go to that one and it makes life easier. You can decide if the hotel is walkable. If you want a terrace, a bathtub, whatever you need, you can put it on booking.com they also have cars to rent. They have vacation rentals. So you can make your vacation as full and as stress free as possible. And we used to get really, really upset with Matt because we would literally show up to these. I'm so sorry for the interruption, you guys. Matt was playing with the lights like a five year old. And now my lighting for the booking.com ad has been tarnished. That doesn't stop the message, though. Booking.com is there for you and all your travel needs. If you have a mat in your life who doesn't plan until the day of, booking.com will help you find exactly what you're booking for at booking.combooking. yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. God, I fell in love with martinis. Have you ever been to the Connaught in London?

[A]

That's like the second best.

[B]

Yes. I was like. I was like, I. I hated martinis. I hated olives. I hated all of it. And I was like with my best friend Alice, and I was like, I gotta get on board with this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was like, I have to. It's chic, it's classy.

[A]

The Kana is similar where they do it table size.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's that little cart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you can pick like whatever essence you want in it. Oh, my God. I'm. I'm such a sucker for, like, presentation.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

And that's a. Who of a martini is like, you feel like they taste great to me, but it's. It's the aesthetic. It's like the way that they, you know, do the twist or if you like a dirty olive, like, it's. You know, it's the whole thing.

[B]

Do you like yours extra dirty?

[A]

Yeah. And I've gotten recently into, like, the blue cheese stuffed olives. Now I'll. I haven't really, like, gotten to that tick tock Caesar salad martini.

[B]

That's disgusting.

[A]

And I'm a savory cocktail girl. Like, I love a dirty martini, but if you're putting, like, pepper and olive oil and vinegar in that, I'm like, first of all, how are you not your pants.

[B]

Yeah. Immediately.

[A]

First thing that will happen with that.

[B]

I just, like, don't understand. I feel like not everything needs to be made into a drink. And I feel like with martinis, like, somehow everything, like, they have, like, hot Cheeto martinis. I'm like, this is just too much for me.

[A]

I just, like, had a little bit of, like, bile.

[B]

Baby barf. Yeah.

[A]

Baby barf. Yeah.

[B]

Well, thanks. Okay. I'm so excited to ask you this. What are you therapist about today?

[A]

Therapist? Is this, like, therapized or. You're pissed about.

[B]

You're pissed about something? Like, I missed my workout this morning and it really me up.

[A]

Really?

[B]

And I never. And normally I'd be like, yeah, it.

[A]

Sounds like a gift.

[B]

No, I know, but, like, I was so. Okay. So I've been doing this thing. Have you ever done EMS before?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. So it's like they strap this machine to you, and it, like, it simulates like, 600 crunches. It's like the most LA thing ever. But I've started doing it on the Reformer for Pilates. And, like, I literally have never been so snatched in my entire life.

[A]

After it, I was like, vibrated.

[B]

No, I was like, what the fuck? I'll show you videos after this. I was like, what the fuck is happening? And, like, my waist was like this. And like, I was the sorest I've ever been. And I was doing it again today, and I woke up and I was like, oh, I missed it. So that was what I was pissed about.

[A]

I think I know what you're talking about is like, M. Sculpt.

[B]

Yeah, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Hi. What am I therapist about? I'm pissed. I'm therapist. The top I wanted to wear today had a giant stain on it. I don't know. I had a. I wish I had a cooler answer, but, like, I really wanted to Wear that. And it was like, right here. And I tied. Penned it and it wasn't coming out and I was just like, do tide pens work usually? Yes.

[B]

Really?

[A]

This one didn't. I had the hair dryer on it too. It was just like. Yeah, that kind of, I guess, like your workout, it like throws your day.

[B]

Off a little bit entirely. I woke up and I was like, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, like, damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What now?

[A]

Yeah. And then I guess I'm not pissed, but I feel like it's a weird cosmic thing, but I, like, passed a coffee shop this morning that's at my hotel, forgot that I had gone there before with this, like, X. And it just, like, brought back feelings of, like, anger. But, yeah, that was a weird morning. I feel way better now after talking to you.

[B]

Oh, I feel amazing. I.

[A]

This is the Shirt Ex coffee shop.

[B]

Yes. That's. Those are really. I really appreciate those therapist answers.

[A]

I appreciate yours.

[B]

Thank you. Okay. Do you know about the tell me what's wrong wrongs?

[A]

I. Yes. Ish.

[B]

Okay, so the submit for us. Tell me. They like, tell us what's wrong, essentially, and we like, prescribe them remedies.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

So we just, like, give them advice.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

And it's really fun. At least I like to think so.

[A]

Okay. I'm. I love giving. I guess it's not unsolicited advice. They've solicit us.

[B]

No, they've. They've asked us for help. My guy friend flirts with me, leads me on, never leaves my side when he's single. But the moment he's with another girl, he ghosts me. I hate mixed signals and psychotic men. Help.

[A]

Yeah, you're a. You're an option. You're just like a safety. You're like a binky.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You're a bestie binky for him.

[B]

Has ever happened to you before?

[A]

No, but, like, I've had vibes because I. You know, it's like, I work in music, so there's like tons of dudes around. Like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My band. I'm always around, like, guys I feel like. But I've never felt like friend zoned in that way or led on. But, like, I've seen them do it to people and it pisses me off. Yeah, I'm like, what the. Like, this girl is so too good for you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And she's just on your back burner.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like you're just a little pacifier for him until he, like, is with the girl he wants. So Him. Sorry, that was like very.

[B]

No, that's really good advice.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

That was really good advice.

[A]

I'm therapist for you.

[B]

Yeah, I'm pissed too. So I was on track to get back together with my ex. Then I found out he got another girl pregnant and purposefully hid it from me. I'm spiraling and lost and don't know what to do. Revenge or hear him out.

[A]

Oh, revenge. Like there is no hearing out.

[B]

Are you a revenge person?

[A]

I'm really petty.

[B]

Yeah. What's the pettiest thing you've ever done?

[A]

I mean, I. I don't know if it's petty, but I definitely wore what I wore during the ZED set for a particular person to see.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think they saw it?

[A]

Yeah, they saw it.

[B]

Cheers to that. Eyes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. But no, like, that's insane. I can't believe that. Well, he would do that. Or actually I can believe.

[B]

I can believe that he would do that.

[A]

But no, you don't need to hear anything. You need to block now. He's a father.

[B]

Yeah. Now.

[A]

Yeah, he needs to worry about that.

[B]

And not, not. Not for someone that you have any relation to.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

It's not your child.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Literally. Hi, Jake. An amazing guest you. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. Geez, these are all the same.

[A]

I know. Is this the same girl? Same. This is the same girl. Sending these in?

[B]

I think so. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. I ended up getting a boyfriend and my guy friend has been super respectful and sweet about it. But I lowkey still have feelings. So long story short, I cheated with my guy best friend and I don't know what to tell my boyfriend. Please help. Oh, I don't think it's the same girl.

[A]

Okay. I mean, it sounds like you want to be with your guy friend, right?

[B]

I don't think I could ever cheat on someone. The guilt that would chew me up. I don't know what I would. What I would do.

[A]

No, I. It would just. No, it would eat me. I was gonna say eat me out. It would eat me up.

[B]

Have you ever been cheated on before?

[A]

Eat me out inside? I have not been cheated on that I know of. But just I've seen people that have, and I've like gone through that awful exercise of just like spiral of like, what if this person that I love and loves me, like the worst kind of betrayal to me?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I would be just. I don't think I could ever do this again. Right like, just trust someone. But, I mean, people survive it. I suppose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But no. Like, I guess that's why I don't really have, like, a cheating song. But I. No, with this one. I mean, it sucks that you would, like, get into something with someone else.

[B]

I know.

[A]

While you clearly, like, truly like this other person or love this other person. I. I mean, I don't know.

[B]

I think I would prescribe, you need.

[A]

To break up with your boyfriend number one.

[B]

That. And then I would prescribe unfaithful by Rihanna.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I feel like that's, like, the one song that's your punishment. Yeah. Where you have to listen to that.

[A]

This is about you.

[B]

I did this. I got with a random guy after a bar crawl with my friends. I went to a lecture two days later, only to see him sitting at the desk in front of the class. Help me, please. Do I drop the class or suck it up. So he's your professor.

[A]

Wait, so they went on a bar.

[B]

Crawl, and then she hooked up with this guy, and he's her professor?

[A]

What's wrong with that? That's kind of hot.

[B]

That's. I. Seriously. That was my dream in college. That was my dream in college.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so the professor fantasy. Yeah, That's a normal one.

[B]

Did you go to college?

[A]

I went to, like, one semester, but I like to say that I did. No, I dropped out.

[B]

But obviously, I like.

[A]

I liked my political science class. I went to, like, a music school. Well, it had, like, amazing music programs, but the programs were, like, jazz and classical.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I was just like, they don't have anything for me. I should have, like, gone to Belmont or something in Nashville, but I didn't know about it. So I went to one semester. But the funny thing is, is, like, this college, they're great, but, like, they claim me as an alumni.

[B]

Okay. Got it. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, it would be cool if they just gave me, like, a flashy degree.

[B]

You should do the commencement speech and be like, I never.

[A]

I would.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never commenced. I never turned the tassel. But, I mean, you guys have me as alumni, right? On your website.

[B]

My boyfriend and I want different lives. We've been together for two years. My whole. My whole family loves him and begs me not to leave him. What should I do?

[A]

I've been there where, like, your family loves and friends, like, love this person that you're with, and it's just, you know, it's such a fixture in your life. But, I mean, you know best, like, you know that, you know, you've got A lot of life left, and you've gotta be a little bit selfish, and you're gonna let people down, you're gonna let your mom down, you know, but it's like, they're not the one dating them.

[B]

Also, I feel like you'd rather let other people down than let yourself down. And also, I feel like if you stay with him, you're just gon hold resentment towards those people in your life for sure.

[A]

And who's to say, like, the next person that's a better fit for you, they'll probably love, too, because they love you. But, yeah, no, don't do it for your family.

[B]

Right. I've had that before where my friends have broken up with someone that I'm, like, literally would die for, and it's like, it's not about you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever feel like the kid of divorce and you're, like, having to choose between mom and dad?

[B]

Well, I never had to choose.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

But, like, it was like, damn, this is sad.

[A]

Yeah, it's definitely, like, a weird feeling when two people that you loved, like, split, and then you're like, oh, God. I mean, my. My gut is always, like, side with the girl.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's who I'm choosing. Sorry.

[B]

No, I mean, of course. But I forgot, like, do you know people that have, like. Is it hard when, like, you have friends, like, married friends that, like, get divorced, and then you're like, what do I do now?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it sucks. It's like, it. It's. I mean, it doesn't suck as much as it sucks for them, but I mean, it's just like, an awkward thing, because in Nashville, you know, I've been divorced for a little over a year now. It's a small town, right. We're all friends, and we all work together, and the music industry is very tiny there. So, you know, it's. Even though, like, I'm really friendly with my ex and we have our son, that's always, like, our biggest priority. I think that it's. It is weird because it's like, we were together for so long that so many of our friends, like, had to sort of pick sides. Yeah. Well, just in terms of, like, respect for each other. It's like, I saw a friend of my, like, a really close friend of my exes at a bar a couple months ago, and I was with my best friend, and we all used to hang out together for, like, a day, a decade or more, and then it's like, damn, it's just gonna be kind of weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe it's just weird for the first few years, couldn't. I don't know.

[B]

I just remember my parents always saying, like, it was hard when, like, people would get divorced, and they were like, we don't. You know? It's, like, tricky.

[A]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think, like, I. I just always, like, side with. I always picked, like, the girl because I'm, like, that's who I'm gonna, like, connect with.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But no, I think it's. It's. It's great because it's like, I think naturally people just go where they feel loved and, like, supported and. But no, I think that's just. I feel like that happens the more you get older, too. Is like, you feel like friends sort of, no matter what's going on in your life, fade away. Like, if they're not, you know, energetically aligned with you anymore. Which is, like, kind of sad. But it's also, like. But I have these solid people that have been my ride or diesel. I feel like Covid changed a lot of people. Like, when I had my son, I could feel like people fall away, I think, like, when you.

[B]

Oh, really? Because you were just, like, on different wavelengths.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, I think as a new mother, like, it's just already such a lonely time, and you feel, like, very isolated. Plus, it was Covid, but, like, I certainly, like, made friends who are moms through the process, and there are, like, some badass bitches that, like. Like, got me through a lot of that. But, yeah, you just, like, naturally kind of realize, like, oh, those people, like, probably put me in a different section.

[B]

Yeah. But was.

[A]

It's interesting.

[B]

Did you, like, how was, like, postpartum and stuff for you? Because I, like, I'm friends with a lot of, like. I know a lot of moms that, like. I just wasn't expecting it to be what it was.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, everything I had to throw out the window because, you know, the pandemic and I couldn't tour, everything got canceled. So that was enough of an identity crisis of, like, oh, my God, I can't do the thing that I've been doing since I was a kid. But I think that was probably a healthy stop for me, was like, you've got to stop attaching your worth to what you do, your work. Yeah. And that was a good lesson, but a hard one. And then, yeah. In combination with, like, postpartum depression, definitely dealt with that. And some of it was probably just circumstantial, too, because I think everyone was, like, Going through it.

[B]

Right. Right.

[A]

Or two. But no, like, I'm out of the woods now. I'm great. But, like, it's. It's definitely an interesting experience. I think there's a lot more tools and, you know, just things to. To look into now than, like, my mom's generation or her mom's. So we have more help now. But, like, it's. It's certainly something that I always like to talk about because I just never heard, like, other artists that work and. Are women doing this, Talking about, like, that sort of lonely thing where even, like, your own partner doesn't understand what's going on inside your brain and. But no, like, thank God I had, like, amazing help and got on an antidepressant for a couple years and just, like, like, re. Balanced my hormones. Like, that's all it was. It's just, like, everything's out of whack. But no, like, now. I think it all happened the way it was supposed to. Like, I was supposed to stop working and, like, figure out who I am without music and who I am as a mother. And now everything can kind of come back in a more equalized, balanced way. And I am happier because I'm not. Not so tied to music as, like, my value system. I know that I love myself even without the music career stuff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I love myself without, like, the Grammy or all the cool things that have happened to me because of this, like, work ethic and talent. But, I mean, no, I'm like, I show up far better now for myself, for my son, for my friends, for my, like, employees and, like, my fans, because of those, like, two really hard years.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry, but it's amazing that you're great now.

[A]

Yeah, I was, like, great, and then, like, you know, the personal life stuff imploded. But no, like, now it's like, with all this new stuff happening and. I don't know, this whole week has just been such a, like, merit, like, marathon but celebration, because it was like, I put this children's book out. I am gearing up for this fourth record that's taken so much to kind of write for and get out. And then Coachella just felt like a victory lap. But no, it's just, like, I'm so excited for the rest of the year because, you know, I've been through the hardest I've ever been through. And, no, I think, like, I mean, you've just heard the record this morning, but I was like, I'm really glad that this is not all about grief and a You know, a divorce, it's a lot about, like, what happens after, which is, you know, messy and funny and all the things like. But I. No, it's all. It's all in there.

[B]

When did you start writing the record?

[A]

It was a couple years ago, so it was a lot of stop and start with that because I was touring, started writing, and then I was working with Jack Antonoff. And then I feel like right after I'd wrote. Written with him, you know, my relationship kind of fell apart with my ex and it was just all happening at once. And then I was also going through a lot of stuff with, like, my music genre and how I wanted to put music out, continuing on and, like, where to send it to, because I was just sort of not. I was, like, outgrowing a lot of what was going on in country music and the way that I had, like, existed within it, and I just wanted to change things. And I felt like the only way to do that was to make really hard decisions and change it up in terms of, like, label and, you know, just how to write for this. And all the while, like, the. The divorce was ongoing. And. Yeah, so I was writing constantly through it, and so I'm surprised I even could show up, like, to the sessions because it was just. My brain was so fried and thank God for my co writers just, like, pulling me out of it. It was just therapy. And I. Yeah, I just kept writing even after a lot of the heavy heartbreak, because I was like, like, dating again. And that's the worst. Awful. Yeah, I was like, I kind of want to write about this stuff too, because it's like, I've never really gone through this. I've been, like, in a relationship for so long that dating in this modern world is strange. And also, like, I'm. I'm a public person. Like, I'm not the most famous person, but when you're on a dating app or just, like, meeting people in this room random way, it feels, like, already so exposed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just feel guarded no matter what. But no, it's been a. I mean, for the storyline, I suppose, for songs. Yeah. Interesting and helpful.

[B]

Was there, like, so it was, like, cathartic to be in the studio during all of this and, like, get it all out.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Was there a song that was one of the most, like, cathartic to write or one of, like, the most personal, like, on the record?

[A]

I mean, I would say, like, the most cathartic was this is How a Woman Leaves that feels just, like, the most raw emotion. Like guttural vocal, I'm singing in terms of just like what I went through. But then I also love that, you know, songs like Push Me Over, Cry in the Car. I have a song coming out this week called Bed no Breakfast, which is certainly about the morning after a hookup. And I, I was like, this feels like a song for people. Like, hopefully anyone going through this. But then it felt really particular to my 30s because I was like, I really love my space now. Like, this is the first time I've lived alone and had my own like house and everything I picked out is mine, every piece of art on the wall is mine. And just, just feels so empowering. And I'm dealing with that for the first time, like in my 30s and I have like a 5 year old and I'm dating again. And it's also just like this place of. I don't really deal with right from the people I'm dating either. I just don't have a capacity fuse for it. Yeah. I'm like, no. Bye.

[B]

Do you, do you like your 30s?

[A]

Oh, vastly more than the more preferred.

[B]

Wow, that's not the first time I've heard that. 25.

[A]

Okay. You're gonna be fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's like, you've already accomplished so much by then. So I think that the 30s rock because you're just out of those like horror story dates. Like, I feel like I haven't had like a massive show date. I've had like, you know, some. Yeah. Yeah. I think my standards are just so high.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like I just don't have enough time even to date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I'm working so much and I have my son. So when I do date, there's a lot of hoops that the person's already jumped through.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Sit at dinner with me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I do think, like I've waited through a lot of riff raff before, you know, you like see me in person. But no. 30s have been immensely better because, well, I mean, you're just fully developed up here and you or most of us. And like, I think you've gone through the, the, the show phase of dating or relationships or, you know, I know a lot of friends like already got divorced by the time they turned 30 because it's like so many people did those like, it's like early 20s marriages, fresh out of college, and then they're like, yeah, this wasn't it. But no, I think depending on where you are, it's like I feel way more settled in myself. I feel way more settled in my career, I don't feel that, like, pressure of, like, always having to outdo something that you already did. It's just like, you're a little bit more relaxed, and I think that's such a gift because you just also care so much less about what people think of you.

[B]

Oh, I need that.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, like, it still creeps in, but, like, you just. You start to, like, loosen your grip on control. And I think because you're not in control, right? You think you are, but you're just not. And I think just allowing yourself to be humbled by the universe, and sometimes it's through the most embarrassing of events, you just learn to lighten up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's been my 30s so far. I just turned 35, so I'm happy.

[B]

Belated.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Wait, what's your star sign?

[A]

I'm an Aries.

[B]

I love that. I love an Aries. They're fiery.

[A]

Oh, yeah. But, like, I'm a Libra moon. And that was the moon that we just had at Coachella. Yes. I just felt like, I don't know, like, really in my feels the whole weekend.

[B]

I think it was. It was supposed to be an emotional full moon. Right?

[A]

Yeah. I feel like it was a lot of relationship shifts and career shifts. I. I just felt like, I don't know, really held by the universe. I was like, I didn't fall on stage. That always feels like someone's taking care of me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, yeah, no, I. What are you?

[B]

I'm a Scorpio.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Gemini rising. Gemini sun.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Gemini rising. Gemini moon. Sorry.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Gnarly. Yeah, a little gnarly. It's why I'm able to talk to people, though, I think, because, like, my Scorpio, I don't think I'd necessarily be able to. And then my Gemini, like, makes me very talkative.

[A]

Yeah, but like, old soul deeply connected to others quickly.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Do you. Oh, this might always my favorite question to ask to artists. What music were you listening to while you were creating your record? Like, what have you been listening to lately?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Like, through my record, because I was writing over two and a half years for it. I went through a lot of phases of, like, I got really obsessed with that Japanese house record.

[B]

I. I've never heard it. I've been meaning to.

[A]

So good Dua Lipa. Just anything that would kind of pull me out of my sadness.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was like, I need to hear a beat. And just someone that is always on vacation.

[B]

Yes. Always on vacation.

[A]

I'M looking about that life. Like, I mean, I saw, like, a tick tock comment about her, and it was like, I mean, she's hot. She releases bangers every couple of years and then goes on vacation. Like, what a life.

[B]

You know, she has the most incredible life and is engaged to the hottest person ever.

[A]

Yeah. Wait, are they engaged?

[B]

Wait, are they. Did I just make that up? Okay, thank God. Like, did I just hear that? Like, like, through the grapevine?

[A]

And she's got, like, her, like, beautiful family out with her all the time. I don't know. She just seems so grounded and cool. Yeah. I was listening to a lot of, like, future nostalgia and her most recent record. So I was actually writing with a lot of people that wrote oh, no Way. Yeah. So, like, Tobias Jesso Jr. I wrote with on this album of mine, Carolina Ellen Aylin. Yeah, I mean, it was just like, I feel like our. Right. Our writer worlds are really small, too. And Julia Michaels.

[B]

Oh, I'm obsessed with Julia Michaels. And she. She's on the new record. Yes. How long have you guys been working together for?

[A]

I first met Julia during my last album, and she and I wrote my song Circles around this Town. But I'd been a psycho fan of her for so long, and I don't know, she's just one of those artists that is so unique. Her identity is so strong in herself. And you can just tell, like, when it's a Julia Michaels always. Because I feel like we're all just copying her, like, because she's such a unique point of view and she makes me feel extremely heard in the room because, you know, she's a woman. She. She works with so many women artists, and I feel like we've all gone through these, like, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And she's had that, too, where it's like she's felt, like, taken advantage of by people she's been with, like, for her, you know, artistry.

[B]

Oh, wow. Have you ever felt that way before?

[A]

I mean, I think sometimes I. I have felt, yeah, like, a little bit, you know, like, pedestaled by people that have, like, been with me or dated me. And then it's like they're not really considering, like, the person they're just thinking about, like, the talent or whatever, and it just ends up, like, blowing up. And so she and I have certainly, like, become soul sisters through all of this. But, yeah, we wrote my song cut together, and I was like, please, thank you. I was like, please be the duet on this. Like, we wrote it together. You would kill this. And then I was on her song Scissors a couple months ago, and she's just, like, such a badass. And then we were both in the Zed Coachella set.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Between Julia and John Mayer. I was like, I feel like all of my buddies were in the Zed set the other night, and I just felt, like, so much less nervous because of that.

[B]

Right. Oh, my God, I really wish I saw that set. I'm so sad I missed it.

[A]

I'm sad for you.

[B]

I'm super upset about it. I also miss Gaga. Like, I just.

[A]

See, I. I was so bummed to not be there Friday, because I wanted to see Gaga. I wanted to see Missy Elliott.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm just.

[B]

And T. Pain was sad. Friday, Saturday.

[A]

Yeah, Saturday. And oh, my gosh, like, it was just a millennial dream.

[B]

I know. This weekend really was.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I love millennials. I'm, like, the biggest millennial defender ever.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I really am so much like, Flack, you guys shouldn't. And honestly, I saw a tick tock the other day that was like, Gen Z is jealous of millennials, and they call millennials cringe. But, like, millennials were able to, like, grow up in that era where, like, trying was accepted and cool, and, like, that's why they're able to be cringe. And now, like, Gen Z is, like, so scared to do anything.

[A]

Yeah. I think it was just also, like, the. The sort of gift of growing up without technology. Although, like, I. When I watched the show Pen15, I was like, this is a little bit too close to home, because the whole episode about AOL Instant Messenger.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So we, like, did have technology, but it was, like, super janky. And then, you know, the iPhone was born. But so it's like, we've gotten to live in both worlds, which is like, you know, y' all have grown up with all of it, so. Yeah. But also, anytime I see a millennial cringe, tick tock. They are the. The videos that other millennials are cringed out by, too.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

They were never accepted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, what the. Like, why are. Why are we getting lumped into this? I was like, right. We never acted like this.

[B]

Never. That's what I always think, too. Also, were you ever an ichat kid?

[A]

Ichat?

[B]

It was like, were you an ichat kid?

[A]

What is ichat?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You guys like Apple?

[B]

Yes. It was like the. It was like, aim on Apple and you would, like, video chat people.

[A]

And I mean, I do remember, like, what was this? It was not chat. GBT chat. Roulette yeah, that was a. That was a moment in time, But I remember, like, the MacBook book, filters and all that.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Oh. I'm currently a high school senior, and I'm trying.

[A]

I love that we're still in this.

[B]

I know. Me too. I was like. We got so into the other thing, and I was like, wait, how am I gonna go back to the tummy? What's wrong?

[A]

No segue?

[B]

Because I was like. And I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it.

[A]

Okay, let's go.

[B]

I'm currently a high school senior, and I'm trying to decide on schools. I love this tiny college by the beach, but I'm nervous that I'll miss the party scene I'd get at a big school. What should I do? I think the party scene, at it. Someone who went to a big school and a party scene there. It is incredibly overrated. It's, like, so fun. For a year, I had, like, the time of my life, and then you're kind of like, what, now?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I wonder if they could just do, like, one year there and then get it out of their system.

[B]

And then go to the tiny beach.

[A]

Honestly, like, growing up in Texas, I was like. I would love a, like, intimate, you know, experience by the beach and just, like, walk to class and hear the ocean. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was in Santa Barbara the other day, and, like, there was just, like, all these kids, like, at the beach that went to ucsb, and I was like, damn, that sounds awesome.

[A]

What was that show with, like, Britney Spears Sister Zoe 101? Yeah. They shot that at, like, Pepperdine.

[B]

Pepperdine. Yeah.

[A]

That was, like, my dream college.

[B]

Was it really?

[A]

Well, only because of the show.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was also like, what a, like, amazing experience that would be.

[B]

I used. They used to have this drink in Zoe101. I forget what it was. It was, like, blitz or something, and it was like a Boof Gatorade. And, like, I always wanted that. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about?

[A]

Yes. I just haven't heard Boof in so long.

[B]

Boof is my. That was speak. That was like. That was like, my Covid word. Boof. Like, everything was so Boof.

[A]

Gatorade is so good. Wait, what was your drink in college?

[B]

Red Bull Vodka or an amf.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Audios.

[A]

What is that?

[B]

It was, like, a shot. It was like a blue drink with vodka. I don't know. They would send me to different places, but I would have an AMF or a Red Bull Vodka. My friend. My best friend Peyton would make us. Oh, I'm gonna throw up thinking about it. A vodka Sprite. To this day, I cannot have Sprite anymore because that was our chaser in college.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And, like, I. I'm gonna throw up thinking about it. What was your drink?

[A]

I had, like, two. There was. Oh, we've talked about millennial stuff so much. But there was. They still make it, but it's called hypnotic.

[B]

Oh, what's that?

[A]

It's just like a blue liqueur.

[B]

Understood.

[A]

It's also, like, very opaque. Like, it wasn't clear. It was, like, milky.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what's in it. Yeah, we need to find out. But then I also loved gold schlager.

[B]

What is gold schlager?

[A]

It's like a cinnamon schnapps, but it is clear. But it has flakes of gold in it.

[B]

Oh, have you had this?

[A]

It's sick. It was, like, pre fireball. Like, obsession, too. But it was disgusting. Like, it was such a moment because I thought I was so cool. Like, with my giant bottle of, like, me too.

[B]

Yeah. That was like me with my Tito's. I had to carry it around.

[A]

That's still, like, okay, though.

[B]

No, I still drink. Teeth is still my vodka of choice. And that was my college vodka.

[A]

Same.

[B]

There was occasions where I would do plastic vodka. They would call them plan dolls. So a plastic candle.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I would wake up with the gnarliest hangovers known to mankind. Like, I would regret my life.

[A]

That's sick.

[B]

Yeah, it was. Sometimes I miss college, and then most of the time I'm like, no, I don't.

[A]

No, it was embarrassing.

[B]

It was so embarrassing. I was so embarrassing. Everything I did was embarrassing. Like, everything. I was like, I can't even look back on it. It's just mortifying.

[A]

You can't even look back two years ago.

[B]

Why? Why? One night I was watching Netflix on the family iPad and I forgot it was connected to my mom's phone. I saw her sex with her new boyfriend. I want to bleach my eyeballs.

[A]

Are we supposed to give advice or just react to that?

[B]

I honestly don't know.

[A]

The family iPad. Okay. I. Oh, this is kind of crazy. I won't say who it is, but, like, I have a friend whose ex, like, they have a family iPad.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

And I guess was still hooked to the, like, icloud. And there were, like, dick pics on her kids iPad. Yeah, I don't think the kids saw it, but, like, she got to it before, but I was like, damn, you need to have a separate icloud account for your child.

[B]

That's the cloud.

[A]

Don't have the family iPad.

[B]

The cloud's gonna explode one day and, like, everyone's gonna lose everything and it's gonna suck.

[A]

Be showered in dick pics.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All the whole time it's raining dick pics.

[B]

I've been talking to this guy online who's great, honestly, but will not stop sending me memes. Like, not funny ones. It's a huge ick for me, but I like everything else about him. We're gonna meet for a date, but I'm low key. Debating canceling. Do I just get it over with.

[A]

If you don't respond? If someone sends you, like, multiple memes, shouldn't they get the idea?

[B]

Men don't get ideas ever.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I should have known. What's more of an ick, like, sending kind of lame memes or them? A guy sending you selfies.

[B]

Selfies. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, that was. That would be worth, like, canceling the date over.

[B]

I think with memes, it's like, I. I can excuse that, you know, because I feel I can look past. I can look past that because to me, like, I would like to hear their sense of humor in person, and if it's horrible, then you'll know. Yeah, I'll know.

[A]

But no, like, I. I have people that, like, are so funny in real life, and like, my band, they make me laugh constantly. We spend a lot of time together. But then sometimes, like, memes will be sent, and I'm like, this is your online sense of humor?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I will say, like, give it a shot on the date.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Because people are different on the Internet.

[B]

Have you had, like, the same band your basically entire career or.

[A]

Pretty much, yeah. Like, I've had my drummer with me since the. The very beginning.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And then the rest of them, it's like, a couple years after that. So, I mean, it's been like, a very consistent thing for me, luckily, because it's like we've witnessed all these insane moments, like, career moments together, and, you know, I'm just like, I take care of them, they take care of me. Went through Covid, like, you know, I. I just. I feel like it's such a comfort for me because I have all these other things going on to. In a live setting. I want to have the people that I've always had around me, of course. And, you know, sometimes life stuff happens. Kids have had, you know, been Had. And I think, you know, sometimes people move away or, you know, that kind of thing, but for the most part, I've had the same crew.

[B]

That's, I feel like that's the best feeling in the world. Because you feel like you've, like, like climbed something together.

[A]

Yeah. And I think, like, you just till your own soil and you treat people with kindness and, like, take care of them if you can't. I mean, I think, you know, one of the proudest moments of my career was being able to put my band on salary and, like, give them health care, because right up till that point, they were just like, day rate.

[B]

Right People. Right.

[A]

But now it just feels like, you know, I, I want to have those.

[B]

People succeed as well. I'm taken care of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Are you planning to tour this album?

[A]

I am. It would be weird if I didn't, but everything's still, like, in the pressure cooker. Like, it's, it's cooking, but I have a lot of ideas. But I'm just trying to get the music out first, not cart before the horse. But I, Yeah, I'm a road rat.

[B]

You love it.

[A]

I love my bus.

[B]

I, I, I've recently just started touring and I, like, I enjoy the bus as well.

[A]

Oh, my God, it's the best. It's just such a step up because, like, when you go from. Well, like, I started in 15 passenger shitty vans, right? Like, sprinter van feels like an upgrade. And then you move up to the bus and you're like, I've made it. I guess beyond that is like private plane, Right. I like stepping onto wheels, going to bed, and then waking up in the next city.

[B]

Do you get it? Do you sleep well on the bus?

[A]

Most of the time, yes. I think it depends on how good of a driver you have.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If it's a really good driver and they're not, like, at 3am veering into the rumble strips.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, that will wake me up. But I also, like, I'm kind of addicted to Zquil and.

[B]

Oh, me too.

[A]

Conk myself out.

[B]

Let me sleep.

[A]

Let me sleep.

[B]

No. Have you had let me sleep?

[A]

Oh, I thought you were saying let me sleep. Is this the Kardashian thing?

[B]

Yes, I'm. No.

[A]

Is it melatonin?

[B]

It. I don't know what is in it, but it's the reason I missed my workout this morning. So you slept that good and I only took one. Sometimes I take three and it's like 20 hours.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Well, the other day I got an IV with Benadryl in it. And I slept for 19 hours. It was wild.

[A]

You IV'd Benadryl.

[B]

It's seriously. Did I just say. Yeah. It seriously was the sickest thing. I started to see blurry, like, I couldn't see. It was like I was given anesthesia. Anesthesia.

[A]

And I. Oh, my God.

[B]

Passed out for 19 hours.

[A]

Good for you. It was awesome. It's like a coma.

[B]

It was. Okay. Marin, what did we learn today?

[A]

I learned that you have a lot of grace for Millennials.

[B]

I do.

[A]

I learned that whoever is writing into your show, we've got to have some integrity lessons and build some self worth. And I've just had a gay old time.

[B]

I've had a gay old time with you, too. I think this is the most relaxed I've been in a while.

[A]

Did you sleep 19 hours?

[B]

No, I slept like 10.

[A]

Did you Benny yourself last night?

[B]

Yeah, a little bit. I learned that you're road rat.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I've learned once again that your 30s are better than your 20s.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I have heard your 40s are better than your 30s, so I think it's better.

[B]

That feels aggressive.

[A]

Yeah. That's far for you. It's not that far for me.

[B]

No.

[A]

I gotta be looking down the lens of it. No, I think like someone. I don't know if it was like, Kate Winslet or someone else, like, badass, but it was just about, like, getting to age at all is such a gift. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. It comes with, like, some traumatic lessons and experiences. Hopefully no STDs. Right. You just get through it. But, yeah, I think for the most part, as you get into it further and further. And hopefully you're going to therapy and getting therapists. I think. Yeah. I would hope that you're. You're feeling more in your skin each year, too. And. Yeah, you know, also, I just feel way less, like, judgmental of myself and others because I'm not looking side to side every time I do something. I'm not comparing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm just, like, trying to get through what I'm doing. 100 the best.

[B]

Well, you're crushing it.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And I love you. And I loved spending time with you. I love you.

[A]

I have been obsessed with you since my life. Discovery of Tick Tock, when I was, like, trying to figure it out. And I feel like you were one of my first doses of it. And this is really full circle for my career to be here with you.

[B]

Oh, my God, Maren.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stop it. Stop it right now. I actually adore you. And I had. I feel like we need to get a drink.

[A]

Drink. We do. So. Okay. I'm here a lot, but you need to come back to Nashville. I need to take you to Sperry's.

[B]

Yes. I want to go to Sperry's. I want to come back to Nashville and I want to drink with you.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Let's maybe avoid our college drinks.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And get a martini.

[B]

Martini.

[A]

Martini.

[B]

We'll do a martini.

[A]

Or let's go to London.

[B]

I would love to go to London with you.

[A]

Maybe next year. Let's do. We'll. We'll see each other before that. But like, let's do a Glastonbury.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Duke's weekend.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Or Connaught.

[B]

Done. Done.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Cheers. Eyes. You want to say little bye?

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Oh, you're so chic. I'm obsessed with you. I love you. I love you. Thank you for coming on. Thank you.