475: Grief As A Portal To Healing Complex Trauma with Amber Trejo, LMFT

Summary

Therapy Chat, Episode 475:

Grief as a Portal to Healing Complex Trauma with Amber Trejo, LMFT

Date: March 24, 2025
Host: Laura Reagan, LCSW-C
Guest: Amber Trejo, LMFT

---

Episode Overview

In this emotionally deep and candid conversation, host Laura Reagan welcomes back therapist Amber Trejo for part two of their series on the intersection of grief and complex trauma. Both having lost a parent in the past year, they use their personal and professional experiences to explore how parental loss can unearth unresolved childhood wounds, offer surprising gifts, and catalyze new levels of healing. This episode is a heartfelt resource for therapists and trauma survivors, normalizing difficult feelings and illuminating the nuances of grief in the context of complex PTSD (CPTSD).

---

Key Topics & Insights

1. Purpose and Intentions (03:54-06:52)

• Both Laura and Amber highlight the motivation for recording this episode: making the hidden or rarely-discussed facets of grieving as trauma survivors visible and normalized.
  • “Our goal for having this conversation publicly...would be for others like us...to be able to recognize how it can be and to normalize that experience and hopefully give some reassurance that it’s a normal part of the process and can even be an opportunity for healing something you didn’t realize was there before.” (Laura Reagan, 02:50)

2. Introducing Amber Trejo (06:07-06:52)

• Amber introduces her specialty—helping parents with complex trauma break generational cycles, and sharing her story publicly (@integrativetraumatherapist).
• Discusses her journey as a trauma survivor, parent, and therapist.

3. The Unique Colors of Grief for Trauma Survivors (07:58-13:06)

• Both share the context of losing a parent—Amber her mom in late 2023, Laura her dad in late 2024.
• Grieving as a therapist adds extra layers: “We have that other hat that colors so much of the way that we see and understand the world.” (Laura, 05:00)
• Amber describes setting boundaries on sharing personal grief until she had processed it privately.

4. Surprising Gifts of Grieving & Memory Retrieval (13:06-15:07)

• Laura shares how her father’s death unlocked forgotten positive childhood memories:
  • “All these positive memories with him that were, like, kind of locked away...actually kind of surprised me, because you don’t know what you don’t remember.” (Laura, 13:41)
• Trauma often distorts or blocks memory—not just negative but positive ones, too.

5. Discovery & Connection After Loss (15:07-19:20)

• Amber found her mother’s journal, which provided unheard emotional truths and regrets—offering a form of closure and deepening posthumous connection.
  • “To see in her journal...this is what I wanted to hear from you...it was almost like something about her passing...just felt like we were almost like more connected in some weird way.” (Amber, 15:56)
• Laura reflects on how grief can allow us to see parents as complete, imperfect humans, not just through the limited lens of their parental role.

6. The Complexity of Compassion and Anger Towards Parents (19:20-27:19)

• Societal scripts and trauma responses often box parents into simplistic roles—abuser, neglectful, narcissistic. Both discuss the importance of making space for parents’ full humanity.
• Laura’s realization that unmet childhood needs often fuel disproportionate anger toward her mother and perfectionistic expectations for herself as a parent.
  • “Society gives us a thousand ways to blame our mom for not being what we needed her to be...the expectations for dads are, like, rock bottom.” (Laura, 27:19)
• Amber sees a generational thread—her mother’s struggles with CPTSD informed her path of breaking the cycle.

7. Rituals and Daily Practices to Move Through Grief (46:34-48:59)

• Both discuss practical grief rituals: journaling, music, art, candle lighting, and speaking to the deceased parent—tools for emotional processing and continued connection.
  • “Sometimes I write to my dad...sometimes I light a candle. It all depends. Sometimes I try to talk to him in my mind.” (Laura, 47:41)
• Recognizing change after parental loss—“You’re a different person when your parents aren’t living anymore.” (Laura, 48:43)

8. The Foreshortened Sense of Future & Trauma (34:18-37:20)

• Laura introduces “foreshortened sense of the future,” a trauma symptom where envisioning positive change or long-term potential feels impossible.
  • “Trauma kind of keeps us thinking...like a bug in a fossil trapped in amber. You know, you’re just trapped in this trauma time and not seeing all of time.” (Laura, 34:20)

9. The Fear of Feeling & Emotional Flashbacks (37:20-43:57)

• Amber describes the visceral fear that sadness or grief will annihilate her—a classic trauma response.
  • “When the sadness happens...it’s like the world is ending and it’s never going to be better...I think as a childhood trauma survivor, we’re so afraid of the sadness because...it would really feel like the end of the world.” (Amber, 37:20)
• Both note the irony that allowing themselves to feel sadness actually passes quickly, but suppressing it prolongs distress.

10. The Challenge of Self-Soothing and Tolerating Emotions (42:06-43:57)

• Amber describes distraction behaviors (e.g., shopping at Target) as attempts to escape grief.
• Laura likens this to the “freeze” response—a trauma mode where it feels unbearable to be in one’s own body.

11. Complicated, Ambiguous, and Disenfranchised Grief (49:00-54:07)

• Both explore the experience of grieving estranged or abusive parents—feeling invalidated, guilty, or ashamed for having feelings about the loss.
• Amber recounts her own reaction after learning of her absent father’s death: “I just felt really, really sad...there was no redemption to his story...it’s just sadness.” (Amber, 49:49–51:58)
• Laura: “These are ambiguous grief, complicated grief, traumatic grief experiences. It’s hard to make sense out of these things.” (54:07)

12. Finding Redemption & Generational Healing (54:58-56:18)

• Both highlight the possibility of healing—showing up for oneself and descendants in ways parents could not.
  • “What your parents...couldn’t realize in themselves—there is you and your siblings and your children. And that is, you know, maybe that’s the redemption.” (Laura, 55:50)

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the purpose of public conversation:
  “Our goal for having this conversation publicly...would be for others like us...to be able to recognize how it can be and to normalize that experience and hopefully give some reassurance that it’s a normal part of the process.”
  — Laura Reagan (02:50)

• On memory retrieval after loss:
  “All these positive memories with him that were kind of locked away...actually kind of surprised me, because you don’t know what you don’t remember.”
  — Laura Reagan (13:41)

• On seeing parents as whole people:
  “With my dad on the other side, I’ll say he’s able to be a complete person and not just like the dad I wanted him to be or that he wasn’t, that I wished he was...”
  — Laura Reagan (17:19)

• On suppressed grief for estranged parents:
  “My dad and I, you know, he left when I was young and...he was not a good person...it wasn’t like...grief came up inside of me right away. It was just like, he’s dead. And...I didn’t even allow myself to...be in touch with what emotions were coming up inside of me.”
  — Amber Trejo (49:49–51:58)

• On generational cycles:
  “So much of that I feel like was because of my mom. Because...she had CPTSD for sure and she just was pulling at anything she could to soothe herself, you know.”
  — Amber Trejo (26:09)

• On the length of the grief process:
  “At first, I totally gave myself a pass. Of course you’re sad...now it’s been a whopping four months, and I’m like, you’re still feeling like this?”
  — Laura Reagan (46:29)

• On the healing power of small gestures:
  “Sometimes all someone needs is for someone to just basically put their hand on their arm and go, ‘yeah, it’s gonna be okay.’”
  — (Peter Levine, recounted by Laura Reagan, 44:25)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Purpose of the Conversation: 03:54–06:07
• Amber’s Introduction: 06:07–06:52
• Both Describe Their Losses: 07:58–13:06
• Discussion on Memory and Grief: 13:06–15:07
• Amber’s Experience Finding Her Mother’s Journal: 15:07–17:19
• Compassion vs. Anger Toward Parents: 19:20–27:19
• Rituals for Processing Grief: 46:34–48:59
• Foreshortened Sense of Future (Trauma Symptom): 34:18–36:57
• The Fear of Feeling Sadness: 37:20–41:08
• Amber on Disenfranchised Grief (Estranged Parent): 49:49–54:07
• Closing Thoughts (Redemption in Generations): 55:50–56:18

---

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is compassionate, reflective, and validating—a safe space for acknowledging messy, contradictory emotions around grief and trauma. Laura and Amber model vulnerability, self-compassion, and the ongoing nature of healing, offering hope that facing grief honestly can yield new connection—to self, to lost loved ones, and to the generations that follow.

Key message:
You are not alone in complicated grief. Grief can unlock profound healing—sometimes offering what wasn’t possible in life—and naming these experiences lessens shame for both survivors and therapists.

Transcript

[Laura Reagan]

Therapynotes is the highest rated EHR practice management and billing software for mental health professionals. Its all in one platform is designed to streamline all aspects of your practice from connecting with clients via secure messages to scheduling, notes, billing and more. You can trust TherapyNotes has you covered and one of the best parts 24. 7 customer service with a live person, it's beyond easy to get help over the phone or by email at any time of day from their knowledgeable and friendly representatives. The best time to give TherapyNotes a try is now. Sign up for your free trial by going to therapynotes.com, clicking Start My Free Trial and accessing your first two months free with the promo code. Chat See why TherapyNotes is the most trusted EHR for behavioral health professionals today.

Therapy Chat Podcast Episode 475.

This is.

[Amber Trejo]

The therapy chat podcast with Laura Reagan, LCSWC. The information shared in this podcast is not a substitute for seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. And now here's your host, Laura Reagan, LCSWC.

[Laura Reagan]

Hi, welcome back to Therapy Chat. I'm your host Laura Reagan and this week, as promised, we have part two of my conversation with Amber Trejo, lmft. Amber and I are both therapists who also have complex trauma and we are talking about our experiences of losing one of our parents within the last year and how it can really bring up some surprises from our growing up years while grieving. The trauma comes to the surface too, and often in surprising ways. When I was going through something with one of my parents a few years ago, I dealt with this and I knew logically as a therapist that it made sense that that was happening. But at the same time I hadn't talked to anybody who had gone through something like that and I really wanted to know have other people felt this way. So I'm hoping and Amber and I were thinking our goal for having this conversation publicly instead of just privately would be for others like us who have had similar experiences to be able to recognize how it can be and to normalize that experience and hopefully give some reassurance that it's a normal part of the process and can even be an opportunity for healing something that you didn't realize was there before. This week I'm at Psychotherapy Networker and I have, in partnership with pessy, a special offer for therapists who want to get training at home. Through pesse. @pesse.com therapychat we have created a page of trainings done by previous Therapy Chat guests and other people who I'm hoping to interview on Therapy Chat in the future that are deeply discounted, so check that out. You can also find it on the Trauma Therapist Network website on the For Therapist section. Thank you so much for listening and talk to you soon.

Hi. Welcome back to Therapy Chat. I'm your host, Laura Reagan. And today, joining me again for a part two of our conversation we started before is Amber Trejo. Amber, thank you so much for coming back to Therapy Chat today.

[Amber Trejo]

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like we're like old friends now. We're just.

[Laura Reagan]

I know.

[Amber Trejo]

Hanging out. Are we even on a podcast? I don't know.

[Laura Reagan]

It's just an excuse to get together.

[Amber Trejo]

Exactly.

[Laura Reagan]

For those who are hearing this part and didn't hear the other part, I'm. I'm really grateful to you for your openness to come here virtually and record with me. And the way you share about your experience for other people's benefit is just so valuable in the way that you really make things so relatable. I just really appreciate that. And so we had our first conversation last year, and then we decided to come back together and talk about kind of how the grieving process is as a therapist. And, you know, of course, this is relatable to anyone, but I find that it's. It's interesting when we're going through things in our lives and we are therapists, you know, we have that other hat that colors so much of the way that we see and understand the world. And it's. I think it might benefit others. I know so many people are grieving. Everyone's always losing someone, and. And there's so much grief happening that I hope that this will help people understand their experience, maybe in a different way, and normalize some of the common experiences that come up for those of us like you and I, who are trauma survivors, ourselves with complex trauma and going through a grieving time. So, yeah, before we start talking about that again, let's just take a moment for you to tell people a little more about who you are and what you do.

[Amber Trejo]

Yes, Hello. I am Amber Trejo. I'm a marriage and family therapist, and I have a private practice in Indianapolis. I specialize in complex trauma and cptsd. And I really, really love working sp, specifically with parents who have had childhood trauma and are trying to break the cycle for their children. And I also, one more thing. Speak a lot about my own trauma journey on Instagram at the Integra at Integrative Trauma Therapist, and talk a lot about my own experiences of being a survivor of complex Trauma and my struggles with CPTSD and parenting and attachment and all of those things. Things.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. And I mean, you. You really have a gift for creating content that is, again, relatable. You know, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's poignant, sometimes it's just informational, but it's always interesting and carries a lot of depth for. For something that you're finding on social media, which is really valuable.

[Amber Trejo]

Thank you so much.

[Laura Reagan]

So, you know, I want to double check something with you. Do you work with parents as couples or do you work. Do you work individually? I know a lot of marriage and family therapists. Do, you know, relationship therapy and don't work with individuals.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, So I actually, I do work with couples, but it's not my specialty, so I will.

[Laura Reagan]

Okay.

[Amber Trejo]

Specifically if they are having struggles with their attachment styles and because of past trauma. But primarily I work with individuals and the entire family system or the parent child constellation.

[Laura Reagan]

Beautiful. So some people who are listening might not have even known that that is a way that they could go to therapy. So, you know, once again, it's about knowledge is power. So the reason that we're talking about being survivors of complex trauma or people with developmental trauma or whatever you want to call it, who are grieving is because we both lost one of our parents in like the last year or so. You lost your mom. When was that? Around.

[Amber Trejo]

It was in November 2023, so it's been a little bit over a year.

[Laura Reagan]

Okay. Yeah. And I lost my dad in November of 2024.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. And I had posted something right around when you lost your dad and you reached out to me, and it was the same month, I think, or right around the same time?

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, I think so. I think what that was. What made me ask you. I think I was asking you like, so how's that been for you? Working being a therapist while going through losing a parent? I often, you know, hear from someone who. That may have happened a few years ago. And when I was right in the thick of it, which I still am, and. And I hadn't known, I don't think I had realized that your mom had passed away so recently. Or maybe I didn't know it at all at the time. I can't remember now. But you were so generous to share about your experience. And then we start talking about it on therapy chat. But we didn't get as far as we wanted to in the time we had.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I didn't post anything about my mom passing away. I. I am pretty private about stuff that I'm going through as I process, just because it is something that's so personal and I have to be really careful with that. And so I didn't post anything until I think it was about a year later. And then. So that was why I had just kind of posted something about it and. Yeah, and then it just happened to be at the exact time that your dad had just passed.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. And, you know, that's a boundary to not share about it while you're going through it. And, you know, for me, I've talked about it some, but I'll. I'll just share that. I don't know how much I said about this on our first recording because I can't remember everything we talked about. Even though it was only a couple months ago. My dad had had. Basically he almost died five years before he did. And at that time, it was a huge shock. I mean, I was reeling. It sent me into huge anticipatory grief. Childhood trauma, attachment reaction, you know, all the stuff. And. And from that time until the time he passed, I had been working on healing from that. So when he did pass, it wasn't like it was new. It was kind of. It was almost like an. A completion of something that had started five years earlier for me. So not to say that there haven't. Well, let me just be more direct. There have been many new realizations and new awarenesses and new levels and layers of the healing journey that have unfolded since then, now that he's really gone from this world. But grief is a really interesting journey, really interesting portal.

[Amber Trejo]

You know, when you brought up the whole. The healing that took place after he passed away, something that came up for me is that we've talked before, and I think we talked about this a little bit on the first. The first part of this, about all of the wounds that kind of get pulled up from childhood when. When your parent does die, all or just like the way that it ends, the stuff that is still unresolved because it's kind of like this final closing on whatever it is, you know, for the relationship.

[Laura Reagan]

It's.

[Amber Trejo]

It's complete. It's so different than when the parent is still alive. And there's so many complicated feelings that come with that. But one thing I don't think we touched on last time is that it can almost feel like new healing opens up with that after the. The passing of that parent. And I definitely felt like that with my mom. And I'm curious if you have noticed now that it's been a few months since the first time we talked, and I know it's. It was really fresh when we first talked. Do you feel like there's been new healing that's kind of come up inside of you, or does it still feel too fresh to even think about that?

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, it's been. I just keep saying it's been a really transformative experience. I mean, one thing is looking at my dad differently, like, sort of releasing him from the confines of the dad Persona that he wore, you know, and allowing him to be more of a full, complete person with great qualities and harmful qualities. And one thing that really happened after my dad died was. And for those of us who are. Who have complex trauma, there's often little memory of childhood or certain years or a blank, or you only have a few memories of certain times. And I actually had a flood of getting emotional thinking about it. But all these positive memories with him that were, like, kind of locked away with maybe some of the things that I never felt comfortable bringing up or, you know, the hurts that I didn't think he had the capacity to really hold if I were to share them. And that was a nice surprise. Like, oh, yeah, that happened. And. Oh, yeah, that too. And, you know, just like, flooding in of these positive memories that actually kind of surprised me, because you don't know what you don't remember. Like, you don't know what it is when you don't remember it. Right. But usually in trauma therapy, that is the negative experiences that we've blocked out. But when you're missing chunks of time, there were multiple things that happened during those chunks of time, not only the things that were too much for you to be able to take in at the time. That was a nice gift.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. You know, I had a similar experience. I feel like as time went on, after being able to grieve, the. The way my mom died and the way that it ended and. And that was very complicated for me, and just. It didn't go the way that I wanted to. But I did feel like something shifted after she passed away. And even just going through her stuff, like, I remember I had given her a. A journal just, like, to write different. I think it was like a grandmother's journal or something for my kids. And some of the stuff that she had written in there, like, one of the things was, like, what was your favorite vacation that you ever took? And she had put, like, going to meet her grandson Ezekiel, my son, for the first time. And, like, it was, like, stuff she never told me. You know, like, my mom wasn't always super Nice to me. And there was always a wall up between us. And so, like, to see in her journal, like, her writing, like, getting to go meet my. My grandson for the first time. And she had also written, like, it was like, what was one of the biggest regrets of your life, you know, and she had written about regretting the years that she spent partying and not being present with us in our. Our older years, like our teen years and things like that. And like, I remember reading through that and just, like, sobbing and just feeling so much like, thank you, mom, for like, writing this down because this is what I wanted to hear from you, like, when we were together and that moment didn't happen together because for whatever reason, there was just this, like, wall up between us. And it was almost like something about her passing, like, and reading those things and some things that happened afterwards just felt like we were almost like more connected in some weird way. And I don't know if you felt like that before, and I don't know if any other complex trauma survivors feel like this, that it brings, I don't know, almost like a piece that. That just, like, can't be there when the relationship is still present and here and they're still alive.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, I. I think I'm relating to what you're saying. You know, the. What I've noticed is that there can be a way that we begin to understand our parent as we understand the impact of our childhood trauma. And, you know, what they did do, what they didn't do to contribute to that. And it can. And I think our culture really contributes to this in an unhelpful way. It can be. It can be quite rigid, you know, like put, let's say, putting our mom in a box as a narcissist or an abuser or. Or an addict or, you know, a bad parent. Putting our dad in a box as unemotionally unavailable, not protector, you know, whatever that might be. And it is so limiting because it doesn't allow for the person to be a full human. And that's, I think, what I was kind of trying to describe before that I feel like with my dad on the other side, I'll say he's able to be a complete person and not just like the dad I wanted him to be or that he wasn't, that I wished he was, you know, and it's interesting too, because even though we're talking about my dad, when we're talking about my grief, I have also experienced with my mom and they were divorced, a way that I kept her at arm's length for decades because of maybe for both of us, it was too triggering to be closer because of the unresolved issues and pain maybe she wasn't ready to talk about. And I was really stuck in. Until you're ready to talk about this, like, I got nothing for you, you know, and. But when it was interesting when my dad had that scare in 2019, my. My system realized like, oh, they are going to die at some point. And number one, I'm either going to need to say these things I want to say, or I need to realize that there will be a time limit to say these things, you know, because again, you know, in the way that trauma can limit your seeing the future in a complete way or staying in, you know, a memory of the past that you don't even understand when it's happening, that that's what's going on. As you've. You mentioned, when we were. Before we were recording an emotional flashback that can be like for years, all the time. It's where you live that you just kind of think, at some point I'm going to let them know, you know, or maybe I'll say it on their deathbed. As if you are believing that you think you're going to be there and get that last chance to say that last thing. And. And then, you know, I'm sure you've seen this countless times as I have, that people, you know, something happens, there's a sudden illness happens so quick or something minor turns into something major and they never come home from the hospital or they never regain consciousness or something, or there's an accident and you're like, oh, I thought I was going to have more time to say what I wanted to say and what. And they also make may think they would have had more time to say what they wanted to say. You know, I guess that's just human. But, yeah, I think that can be a cause of a lot of pain too.

[Amber Trejo]

And I. I feel like I was with my mom, you know, as she. Right up until the very end, and it was almost like. And I don't know if other. This will resonate with other complex trauma survivors or if it resonates with you, Laura, but just the. This feeling of, like there was this part of me that wanted to say all these things and then there was this other part of me that was just like, it's just not safe. And I kept kind of wanting something from her and wanting to prompt that from her, but I wasn't getting that it was safe. You know, the messaging that it was safe back. And there was. Because of the trauma and because of the pain, it was just like, I just can't do it. And so, you know, after my mom passed, I did have moments where I cried and I felt connected to her, and I just said, I love you so much, mom. And I'm, you know, sorry that our relationship was the way that it was. And, like, that felt really good, and it felt really healing. And so also just knowing that, like, sometimes even when we're with the person, like, our parts just don't feel safe enough when there is that much trauma and that, like, that's okay, too, and we can still say those things. We can write them down. We can say them out loud after. After they've passed. Like, there's just so many ways that can feel a little bit safer if we don't feel like we get that out. And I feel like my mom, sadly, like, the weird thing is, is, like, I know my mom felt the same way towards me. For whatever reason, she was, like, afraid of rejection from me. And that was kind of always our dynamic. And so maybe she wanted to say things, too. I mean, she wrote them down in that journal, but she never said that to me. And she had the opportunity, you know, And I think there's two ways to take that. And I think initially I took it as you. You always rejected me. You never loved me the way you needed to. And then after she passed, some part of me just blow. Believed, like, for whatever reason, you couldn't, and that's okay. And I did find that I felt that healing, you know, like. And it didn't feel like all of the things she had ever done to me were gone, but it also just felt like there was just more of, like, a peace there than that than there had been before.

[Laura Reagan]

I don't know. Yeah, I do think that that's an. An experience that other people will be able to relate to, and I can relate to. And it's kind of like where I was saying, instead of, you know, our younger parts that, you know, they always have very black and white ways of looking at things because they're. They're kids, you know, that's how kids think. But, you know, it's like allowing for the space for her not to have had to be perfect and have to get it all right, just to let her be a human with her own flaws, too, you know, because that mother title is such a. It's like a setup. You know, no one can live up to the ideal. And our Society doesn't provide the support for women to ever be able to show up for their children the way that, you know, would be ideal for the children because women don't get enough support. So generationally this setup has been in place. Be perfect. You cannot possibly ever be that way because the structure won't support it. You know, we don't have community surrounding us, taking care of us to recover from birth and to teach us how to take care of the baby and you know, give us the nurturing we need so that we have an abundance of nurturing that we can give to the baby. And I know that some moms do worse than others. You know, like, that's true and that's why people are traumatized generation after generation. But. But in reality, we're all humans in it. As a woman, you know, my mother title for me is very important. It's probably has an outsized importance because of the way I was or wasn't mothered as a child. Because I understand just how important, you know, the way we're mothered or parented is to our well being as adults. But. And as children. But I'm also more than just mother. I'm a person with my own interests. I'm a, you know, I'm all these other things. So. So was your mom. So is my mom, you know.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. And honestly, I think that, that I didn't even like connect this at all. But I do feel like my mom's death had so much to do with the way that my. Some of my content really changed and my own journey with parenting was a big impact on that. But like, I really, you know, cre. You know, when I think about working with moms with CPTSD and like, who want to. Who have all this trauma and want to show up differently. Like so much of that I feel like was because of my mom. Because I know for certain, like now that I know about cptsd, like she had CPTSD for sure and she just was pulling at anything she could to like soothe herself, you know. And so I just think about that and I. When, you know, I do feel like she is proud of me and, and that's so important, you know, But I don't feel like I could. It's so weird because I just don't feel like I could have also got to that place if she was still alive right next to me. I mean like lover, but she's just not. Like that wasn't our dynamic, you know. So it's, it's an interesting. I don't know, just such an interesting journey.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. I mean, I will say when I. When I realized how many unmet needs I had from the way I was parented, my mom was the one that I first was the most mad at. And again, our society gives us a thousand ways to blame our mom for not being what we needed her to be. And, you know, the expectations for dads are, like, rock bottom, you know, But. But I. When I started working with parents, I realized we can't vilify the parent when the. You know, we can't vilify this parent's parent when they are also going to make mistakes because they are traumatized, too, just like their parent was. So, you know, I mean, you've probably seen this a lot. It's like that classic, like, I don't want to be a bad parent like my parents were. And then we, you know, this super perfectionistic thing comes in, and it's like, if I don't do everything perfectly, I'm a horrible parent. You know, and that can be such a crushing experience for those who have experienced childhood trauma. So, you know, maybe for your mom, not that I'm trying to be your therapist or anything, but, you know, maybe it was, like, important to never acknowledge that to save her ego, you know, because the alternative is so crushing.

[Amber Trejo]

Absolutely. I think that makes sense.

[Laura Reagan]

Like, showing vulnerability was not safe to her.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. And that's the way it always was with her. Like, she never felt safe to be vulnerable, you know, and so I think the death of a parent, I think it really also kind of brings to light their life and their pain and. Yeah. Their humanness. Just like you were saying.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. The unresolved stuff, though, that's a big one. And the grief of not having the chance to express those things. It's a beautiful gift that your mom. Well, first you gave the beautiful gift of the journal, and then your mom actually used it, and maybe even, like, secretly was hoping you would see it and understand what she couldn't say.

[Amber Trejo]

Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I didn't even think about that before. But you're probably. I write.

[Laura Reagan]

It's funny that you brought up a journal, too, because I was thinking of asking you before you brought that up at all when you said, when I was going through my mother's things, I thought, I wonder if she found any journals and did she read them? Because that is, like, scary. I don't. I'm afraid if I saw my mom's journal, I'm afraid what I would read. Like, I'm afraid That I would be like, oh, no, she really did hate me.

[Amber Trejo]

Oh, my gosh. Well, that consistent to the last day.

[Laura Reagan]

Laura's horrible. What a disappointment as a child.

[Amber Trejo]

Oh, my gosh. Well, that's the funniest thing that you mentioned that, because. Yeah, we found another journal of hers, too, from when my brother and I. My brother's three years younger than me when he was, like, in his late teens, and I was in my, like, late teens, early 20s, so he must have been, like, 17 or something like that. And we were just in the party scene, like, hard. And, like, we were just paying her back for all of the trauma that she ever put us through. And, like, every journal was. Every journal entry was like, well, he quit another job today, or he got fired from another job today. I don't know how he. When he's ever gonna learn and stuff like that. And then it was like, Amber and, like, you know, my best friend at the time, like, aren't talking anymore. They got into a fight. I don't know what's going on. And so, like, just hearing how much she was thinking about us and, like, all of the drama and things that, you know, we were kind of, like, paying her back for, you know, in those early years. And I was just thinking about that. I was like, man, that's kind of funny that she was journaling all about that and just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do about them. I don't know what, you know, and just knowing where we are now, too, you know, it's like, oh, we got through that, and we all were okay. And.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, that's reassuring, too.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, it kind of is. It kind of, like, brings this whole, like, big picture out, because I think there's so much when we're in the thick of that trauma that we're just like. And like you said, you don't see a future, right?

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah.

[Amber Trejo]

And you don't imagine a time of, like, oh, wait, what if we all get through this? And what if we're all okay? And what if we still have a relationship, even though it's bumpy and even though we, you know, get hurt by each other sometimes? Like, what if we make it through this? What if we're okay? And so I think that that put. Reading those journal entries also put that a lot into perspective in my mind. Like, oh, man, I bet she was like, my kids are screwed, and they're never going to be okay. You know, what did I do? I screwed up, and they're totally messed up now.

[Laura Reagan]

And you know today's episode is sponsored by Psychotherapy Networker and Pessi. If you're a therapist, be sure to check out the Partner page, which is linked in the Show Notes, where you can get discounted trainings with previous Therapy Chat guests like Courtney Armstrong, Dr. Leslie Korn, Dr. Arielle Schwartz, Dr. Tammy Nelson, Dr. Janina Fisher, Rebecca Case, Dr. Peter Levine, Dr. Lindsay Gibson, Deb Dana, Lori Gottlieb, and many, many others. You'll find the link in the Show Notes to my Partner page with Pessi and Psychotherapy Networker where you can find all these discounted training. If you need CES, this is a great place to go. TherapyNotes is consistently transforming the way therapists manage their practices with continuous updates designed to save money and improve efficiency. Their latest game changer Therapy Fuel, a powerful and fully integrated suite of AI tools that stream streamlined documentation so you can focus more on your clients. With AI features that help by generating progress notes from summaries or transcriptions, creating contact notes directly from client secure messages, and automated summaries of client history forms, TherapyNotes users are already reporting hours of saved time and energy. Some other recent feature improvements include automated recurring client payments, electronic secondary insurance billing, and their constantly expanding library of outcome measures. The best time to give TherapyNotes a try is now. Sign up for your free trial trial by going to therapynotes.com, clicking start my free trial and accessing your first two months free with the promo code Chat. See why Therapy Notes is the most trusted EHR for behavioral health professionals today? Well, I know your kids are younger than mine. Like, how old is your oldest?

[Amber Trejo]

He's about to be 11.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, okay, so mine are. My oldest is like close to 30 and then my youngest is in her mid-20s. So it's, it's another change that's happened. I'm. I love what you just shared. I mean, because it reminds me something that has really changed for me, going back to that, not seeing the future. You know? Like, I think this is one of those. I was looking at my Janina Fisher flip chart. This is one of those trauma symptoms that people don't often talk about or know about, but they call it a foreshortened sense of the future. And it's like, I'm saying this for the listeners. Like, it's. You don't. When you, someone asks you where will you be in five years? Or what do you see yourself doing when you grow up? And, and the child is like, grow up? Like, I don't know, it's like they can't envision that. And, you know, that's an example of how trauma kind of keeps us thinking of the analogy. Like. Like a bug in a fossil trapped in amber. You know, you're just trapped in this, like, trauma time and not seeing all of time. And something that changed for me after my dad passed is. It's related to what you were saying about that second journal you were telling about. You know, that idea of I just want to be. I mean, I started with, I just want to be a better parent than my parents were. And then I used to be like, well, that should be easy and dis. But, you know, and that was my anger. But if this happens to my child, this thing that happened to me, or if that happens to my child, some other thing that I went through, then I see myself as I failed as a parent. So, again, it's still very black and white, you know, like, not being able to see that. People go through things, even though you know this as a therapist, but when it's in your own life, you might look at it unconsciously, you just look at it differently. So something that's really changed for me is this feeling of, like, bad things can happen and you can come out the other end and, like, thinking about it and seeing it as not just like, oh, I hope a bad thing never happens. You know what I mean?

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah.

[Laura Reagan]

It's like that fear of loss is part of that, you know, because the loss is such a huge, unnamed experience of being a childhood trauma survivor. There's so much loss of what you didn't get, what didn't happen, what you were wishing for. You know, these. Like, it's very intangible.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. You know, when you say that, something that I'm thinking about is actually something that happened to me this morning and something that I found myself doing a lot when my mom passed away. And I don't know if this resonates with you at all, but I'm sure it will resonate with. With other complex trauma survivors. This feel. Well, I know for sure it'll probably resonate with you as well, but just let me know. So this feeling of, like, when the sadness happens, it's like you're. Like you feel that pit in your stomach, and it's just kind of like, following you around and it's kind of telling you this story. Like the world is ending and it's never going to be better. And, like, you can't feel this sadness. Like, you've got to push it down. You've got to go get distracted. Like, I actually. And I told you this a little bit before, and I'm not going to go into it right now on the podcast, but, like, I've been having a hard month, and this morning I felt the sadness come on, and I felt the pit in my stomach. And, you know, this is the work that I do with clients when I'm like, you're in an emotional flashback or you're having an emotion, you can let the emotion pass. You don't have to believe everything it says. But when it happens to me, it's just like the whole world is ending. And, like, this sadness that I feel, like this sadness is all coming, consuming, and it's going to take me over and it's going to drown me. And if I let myself feel it, like, it's just going to be the worst thing in the world. And something that I feel like I really had to follow was my own advice, was like, sadness is there. That's okay. Like, and I even said this to myself this morning. Like, I was like, it's okay that you're feeling sad. Like, and you don't have to believe the story that that sadness is telling you. What if that sadness was going to come and you felt it? I'm like, everything would be okay. It would pass. It would be okay. Like, I think as a childhood trauma survivor, we're so afraid of the sadness because, like, if we let that sadness come, it would really feel like the end of the world. And so a habit is kind of just pushing it down. And so I felt that when my mom died, like, try to distract myself, try to pull to the things that I usually do to, like, not feel, not feel, you know, and just kind of allowing myself to be like, oh, it's okay. The sadness is here. And I don't have to believe that the whole world is ending and that my life is over and that I'm completely helpless, completely powerless. I could just be like, I'm sad.

[Laura Reagan]

So, yeah, it's. It's like that fear that the sadness will be so big that it will swallow us. That's what I say. It'll, like, swallow me or kind of like, it won't be okay and it'll never be okay.

[Amber Trejo]

Exactly. Yes. You know, that is the story my sadness always tells me. Like, and that what you said, the shortening of the. What is it? Foreshortened.

[Laura Reagan]

Foreshortened sense of the future, as I think the technical term.

[Amber Trejo]

So true. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you feel like it's just going to be like that for forever, right?

[Laura Reagan]

And, of course, that we actually know that emotions have an arc.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. Yeah. So I still do that. I mean, I'm almost 40 years old. I've. I feel like my husband. Like, he doesn't love it when I'm sad, but he's always trying to, like, get me to show sadness, and he welcomes. Welcomes it, and he comforts me, and all my people that I love comfort me. And I still find myself doing that with the sadness or the sadness telling me that story. And so it is so important to just remember, like, yeah, it's gonna come, and it might feel really scary, and it's. It's gonna be okay, and you will get through it.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. And, you know, since you're talking about this and I'm so grateful for you sharing it, what I've observed in myself and with clients is that we expend so much energy trying not to feel the thing that is trying to be felt. And when we actually can tolerate allowing ourselves to feel it, it. It does. It does kind of go pretty quickly. It's like 90 seconds max.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah.

[Laura Reagan]

You know?

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah.

[Laura Reagan]

Meanwhile, years of trying to avoid feeling it can. Can be the case, you know, and. And it's not just say that the feelings are really not that bad. It's more that we now have the capacity to tolerate it. We didn't then, but we do now. You know, and so it's like updating the younger parts. It's okay. Like, we can hold this now. We don't. We aren't alone now. We do have people who care.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. And knowing what we need to soothe ourselves, which I think that's another complicated part of the grief thing with complex trauma survivors is that it's so hard to know sometimes what we need. Sometimes we feel like we don't need other people. We don't want to be around other people. We might feel repulsive when we're feeling sad. We might feel like nobody can see us like this. And so I think it can also.

[Laura Reagan]

Like, this is the time when I'm completely unlovable and no one would want to see this. Yeah.

[Amber Trejo]

And I don't know if you ever feel like this, but I feel like that still comes up inside of me sometimes. Like, this part of you is not. Not safe, and it's not okay, and it's not lovable.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah.

[Amber Trejo]

And so being able to know what does soothe us or, like, when we're going to the things. Like, I was in Target, and I was just, like, trying to find five different. You know, try on a Bunch of different clothes before work. I was like, what am I doing? And I'm like, nothing's fitting right. Like, you know, and I just like, noticed the pit in my stomach. I'm like, why do you keep doing this? Like, are you really so mad about the clothes or are you just like having a hard time right now and you're just feeling overwhelmed and sad and like everything is going to. And you just want to like, just be like it's over, you know?

[Laura Reagan]

Well, you know, I feel like what you're describing there sounds to me like the way it feels to be in freeze. It's like, I just need to get out of this. I can't. This is an intolerable. I just want to like, take off this body, you know, just like get escape from here. It feels too awful. Yeah, you know?

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, that's exactly what it was. And just like that feeling of like wanting to run but you can't run, so you're just trying to like, it's just go, go, go.

[Laura Reagan]

Like frantically kind of grabbing for what could be making you. Allowing you to escape from that.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah.

[Laura Reagan]

Yes.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. And going back to that, like, what soothes me. And so, like, it ended up really being helpful for me to just say like to myself, like, you're feeling really sad today. That's okay. You tell your clients all the time, it's okay to feel sad. Like, it's okay. It's okay to feel sad. It's not going to be like this forever. And even though some of those things might feel really cliche, you know, it can be helpful just to remind yourself of. Of that. That. That it's okay to be sad.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. You know, something Peter Levine said at a conference, I was at one time really stuck with me. He said, you know, sometimes all someone needs is for someone to just basically put their hand on their arm and go, yeah, it's gonna be okay. And so at that conference, something. I had a nightmare, like that night after being with attending that, and I had a nightmare that was something from my trauma history. And I like, soothed myself at the time, but when I woke up in the morning, I still felt really unsettled. And then I remembered him saying that. And I tried putting my hand on my own arm and, and saying, it's okay. You're not alone with this. And I like really burst into tears. And it, it just. It moved through and I was like, wow, the touch can really, you know, so sometimes it's like, you know, we're trying to reach those parts and, and Soothe them and reassure them. But sometimes for me, the only way to. And I don't think it's just me, but, you know, for some of our parts that are more really early, you know, really young, it's just like, there needs to be some kind of touch, and it activates the attachment system to be like, oh, okay, I'm not alone here. Even though I actually am by myself, putting my hand on my own arm, but it's still giving that message to the system.

[Amber Trejo]

Oh, that's so true. I know. I always, like, well, put my hand right here.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah. Yeah, me too. It's funny because with the grief, like, I gave myself at first, I was. I totally gave myself a pass. Of course you're sad. You're grieving. Oh, this is grief. This is grief. Now. It's been a whopping four months, and I'm like, you're still feeling like this? But.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. I found myself doing, like, I gave.

[Laura Reagan]

Myself a time limit unconsciously for how long I was allowed to access my emotions about it.

[Amber Trejo]

That. That's another piece about it, you know? That's so, so true. I feel like mine was like, two days. Like, you have, like, two good tries in the shower now. Get it together. Like, go, like, be okay. You know, don't be sad about it anymore. But I feel like that's why I really have to do, like. Like, rituals when it comes to allowing myself to feel that. Do you do anything like that? Because I feel like I would listen to certain songs after she passed, and still, even now, like, I'll listen to certain songs and I'll just allow myself, you know, in the way home from the car, like, in the drive home from work to. From work, just listening and allowing myself. When I feel it inside of me, like, I can always feel it. Like, kind of like I did this morning. Like, you really need to, like, release some emotion. And allowing myself to do that and then just kind of, like, moving on afterwards feels really good.

[Laura Reagan]

Yeah, I do. I have different things. I. Sometimes I write to my dad or I write about how I'm feeling, like, in a journal. Sometimes I. I make art. Sometimes I listen to music. Some I have. Sometimes I light a candle. It all depends. Sometimes I try to talk to him in my mind. And, you know, interestingly, it was like, for a while, I felt like he was right there. And then there started to be a time where I felt like I can't feel him. And, like, noticing that that is also. That brings, like, a Grief reaction, like, you know, and I'm wondering, is that a memory of really, like, where are you? I need you. You know, like, from when I was young or, you know, and is. Is that apart? Is something blocking me from feeling the connection? So I just try to. I try to be really curious about it. But it definitely. The rituals are an important aspect of moving through this healing after. Because, you know, you're a different person when your parents aren't living anymore. Like, you're now not in that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Amber Trejo]

Oh, my God.

[Laura Reagan]

I still have one, but it's. It's a big. It's like, you know, and I've heard other people say, like, who am I if I don't have my. My mom or my dad? And. But. But I want to name, as we come to a close, one more concept that I just think is really important, and I hope you might be able to speak about this. Oftentimes I'll see clients thinking that they shouldn't be feeling how they're feeling because they weren't that close with their parent or they, you know, the parent was abusive to them in some way. So they're like, oh, well, you know, this shouldn't be bothering me, but why do I feel. So why am I having, like, my eating disorder symptoms flare up or, you know, why am I suddenly unable to sleep or whatever. Pain all over my body? We weren't that close. You know what I mean?

[Amber Trejo]

You know, I know we're like, right at the end, but I felt that way about my dad. My dad and I, you know, he left when I was young, and he. We didn't talk for years. Years, years. And I was pregnant with my first son, and I had just gotten married and stuff, and I wanted to find him and talk to him and have some closure and things. And I ended up learning that he had passed away and he was not a good person at all, you know, and there was a lot that happened with him before he did leave. And so I just kind of was like, oh, he's dead. And it was like this weird. Weird. I don't know how to explain it. It wasn't like. I wouldn't even say grief came up inside of me right away. It was just like, he's dead. And I didn't even allow myself to, like, touch. To be in touch with what emotions were coming up inside of me. It was just kind of like, numb. And then I think it was like a year or two later, I had reached out to an aunt who I no longer Spoke with. But I was just like curious because I didn't know how he had died. I didn't know like what had happened. And there was just so much, just so much of that part of my, you know, family history and everything I knew nothing about. It's just crazy, you know. And my aunt just like really coldly, like I had found her on Facebook really coldly said something along the lines of like, oh, he died from liver cancer and he died completely alone or something like that, right? And that's like all she said. I was just like, okay, thanks. Thank you. You know, it was just like really like, that's so. And so then after I just found my. I was like so irritable and I was so. Because that's kind of where I'll go if I don't allow myself to feel whatever sadness or grief I'm feeling. I'll go straight into anger and irritability. And I kind of was just like on edge and was being really mean to my husband. Poor guy. That's like the one that just like really irritable with him. And he was like, what's going on for you? And then all of a sudden I just like broke down and kind of just like allowed myself to feel like I was like, I guess I just feel really, really sad. Like even though he wasn't a good person, you know, even though he did all these bad things, even though he left and I hadn't even talked to him in for years, like some part of me just feels very sad and very sad like that this was his story and this was like the way his story ended. There was like no redemption to his story. There was no, like, well, he ended up getting help and like he was okay. Like his story was just all around sadness, you know. And I can't help but wonder one if that experience happens a lot for people who, you know, like you said, find out their parents have passed and they don't have any kind of relationship with them or the parent was really abusive. But to like, if they feel. When we come from so much trauma, I feel like that probably is a common feeling of just like my parents story just was so sad. It started sad, it was sad all along and it ended sad. And it was just like, where is the hope? Where is the. I don't know, like the redemption in the story? And it's just like that's it. It's just sadness. And so I don't know, that was kind of like a tangent. But I feel like, you know, it is a really common experience. To not allow or feel valid in the feelings that you're feeling because a parent was, was abusive or because a parent wasn't there or wasn't around. And to even feel like you can't allow yourself to feel those feelings because of whatever that parent did. And then also just the feeling of that. Yeah. That the story's just ending and it's just heartbreaking.

[Laura Reagan]

Doesn't feel complete.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. It just feels. And that's just the ending for so many people's lives, for so many people's stories. It's really sad and really heartbreaking. And I think that that needs to be acknowledged too, that it's okay to grieve over whatever your parent. Like you couldn't save your parent, you couldn't help your parent. Maybe your parents story was ended really horribly and maybe part of you is happy about that, but they. Then another part of you feels really sad about that. There's just, it's so complicated.

[Laura Reagan]

Yes, yes. And these are ambiguous grief, complicated grief, traumatic grief experiences. It's, it's just, it's hard to make sense out of these things. And I, I hope by us talking about it that it helps other people have a name for what they're feeling, feeling, or some context. And potentially for therapists who are listening too, to maybe look at things slightly differently from how they were. Because, you know, going through these experiences yourself does change things. I mean, that's one of the best growth experiences as a therapist is to, you know, continually learn from our experiences and, and take that back to our work.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah, I agree. And I think the last part is about the grief, is that I think it's a beautiful way for us to show up for ourselves regardless of what we're feeling. Just how can we allow ourselves to safely feel that and be there for ourselves in the process? Maybe in the way our parents couldn't have done.

[Laura Reagan]

Right. And I just am going to add a point to that. Connecting the way we are about that. This, that's one way to do it differently. Right. Like not isolating, not holding back from what, what we're going through, as if it's something shameful.

[Amber Trejo]

Yeah. Yes, that's so true. That brings so much healing and so much connection and knowing you're not alone, you're not alone in these complicated experiences and feelings and emotions.

[Laura Reagan]

That's right. And you know, as we end for real, what your parents, you know, couldn't realize in themselves, you know, the full expression of who they are there is you and your siblings and your children. And that is, you know, maybe that's the redemption. Yeah. And I'll take that for myself too.

[Amber Trejo]

I love that. That was so beautiful.

[Laura Reagan]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate your vulnerability, your authenticity and, and the way that you take your experience and use it to help other people. And, you know, I find it very inspiring. I'm really grateful.

[Amber Trejo]

Amber, thank you so much. Thanks for talking with me and having me on and having these amazing conversations.

[Laura Reagan]

TherapyNotes is the highest rated EHR practice management and billing software for mental health professionals. Its all in one platform is designed to streamline all aspects of your practice from connecting with clients via secure messages to scheduling, notes, billing and more. You can trust TherapyNotes has you covered and one of the best parts 247 customer service with a live person, it's beyond easy to get help over the phone or by email at any time of day from their knowledgeable and friendly representatives. The best time to give TherapyNotes a try is now. Sign up for your free trial by going to therapynotes.com, clicking Start My Free Trial and accessing your first two months free with the promo code CHAT see why TherapyNotes is the most trusted EHR for behavioral health professionals today.

[Amber Trejo]

Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat with your host, Laura Reagan, LCSWC. For more information, please visit therapychatpodcast.com.