Therapy for Black Girls BONUS: Behind the Scenes of 'NATAL' for Black Maternal Health Week

Host: Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, Ph.D.
Guests: Gabrielle Horton & Martina Abrahams Ilunga
Release Date: April 18, 2025
Main Theme:
A behind-the-scenes look at the making of ‘NATAL,’ a podcast audio docuseries centering Black parenthood and reproductive justice. The conversation with Gabrielle Horton and Martina Abrahams Ilunga explores their five-year journey amplifying Black birthing stories, tackling stigma, digital privacy, abortion rights post-Dobbs, and preserving Black oral tradition, while centering joy and communal care.

Overview

This special bonus episode brings together Dr. Joy Harden Bradford and the creators of the NATAL podcast, Gabrielle Horton and Martina Abrahams Ilunga, for an in-depth conversation marking both Black Maternal Health Week and Natal’s 5th anniversary. Listeners get an intimate look into the inception, evolution, and impact of NATAL—how it documents the lived experiences of Black birthing people, pushes for systemic change, and holds space for both the heavy realities and profound joy within Black reproductive journeys.

Meet the Guests & Origins of NATAL

[05:27 – 06:10]

• Guests Introduced:
  • Gabrielle Horton: Executive Producer & Co-Host, Englewood, CA.
  • Martina Abrahams Ilunga: Co-Executive Producer & Co-Host, Brooklyn, NY.
• Podcast Mission:
  “Natal is a podcast about having a baby while Black...a reproductive justice series that helps to chronicle and document the memories and experiences of Black women, gender expansive people, and families.” – Gabrielle [05:27]
• Motivation:
  Originated from witnessing the Black maternal health crisis—friends, family, and community experiencing trauma, fear, and systemic neglect in reproductive care. [08:12]

How NATAL Has Evolved Over Time

[06:17 – 10:43]

• Core Consistency:
  Each guest is asked: “What should care look like for Black birthing folks, for Black reproductive folks in this country?” – Martina [06:17]
• Season Breakdown:
  • Season 1: A “gumbo pot” of stories nationwide capturing broad experiences [06:38]
  • Season 2: Deep focus stories following three Black rural families, exploring generational, community, and regional factors [07:10, 09:53]
  • Season 3: Format shift—centers voices of eight advocates and birth workers in a post-Dobbs world, focusing on abortion and organizing [07:35]
• Guiding Forces:
  Responsive to the national climate, emerging questions, and stories missing from the dominant narrative. [08:00]
• Evolving Lens:
  “With each season, you kind of see us also kind of step outside of our own fear...to really start to reimagine what care can look like and how we build care systems that work for all of us.” – Gabrielle [08:12]

Pouring Into the Work & Self-Care as Creators

[11:09 – 14:07]

• Emotional Toll:
  “I did not know how to communicate how challenging it was to revisit my own abortion...I was struggling in silence with it.” – Gabrielle [11:13]
• Frameworks for Care:
  • Open dialogue between co-hosts about their well-being.
  • Building personal toolkits: walks, therapy, rest, and vulnerability.
• Practicing What They Preach:
  “Season three taught me...that we have to show up for each other in that way, too...we need to put [communal care] in practice as producers, as teammates, as friends.” – Martina [13:34]

Season 3’s Focus: Abortion, Dobbs, Systemic Connection

[14:07 – 17:17]

• Response to Legal Landscape:
  Format of season three was directly shaped by the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision overturning Roe v. Wade. [14:21]
• Interconnection:
  “In lots of spaces, perinatal care or maternal care is separate from abortion care...but...none of these things are in isolation.” – Martina [14:23]
• Removing Stigma:
  Using the season as an invitation for Black communities to remove shame and recognize bodily autonomy as central. [15:40]

Black Women’s Long History in Reproductive Advocacy

[20:56 – 24:17]

• Historical Context:
  “Black folks have been leading this movement, have been organizing, have been working to provide safe abortions...for years...abortion is also a Black issue.” – Martina [20:56]
• Memorable Moment: Ms. Marie Lenor, an elder and founding member of the Janes (60s Chicago underground abortion network), shares how mutual aid and communal activism were survival strategies. [21:38]

  “This work is not new...that’s why we titled that episode ‘It’s Not No White Women’s Movement’ because we’ve been at the forefront.” – Gabrielle [23:15]

• Key Tenet:
  “The right to have a child and the right to not have a child, the right to parent a child in a safe environment, those are core tenets.” – Gabrielle [22:58]

Digital Privacy and Post-Dobbs Challenges

[24:18 – 28:02]

• Reframing Privacy:
  “The challenge...is really less about the app...and it’s really about the ways in which the government...can use loopholes and archaic laws...to really entrap Black folks.” – Martina [24:41]
• Meeting People Where They Are:
  “If you want to use your period tracking app, use your app. You have the right to make decisions for you.” – Gabrielle (quoting legal guests) [26:19]
• Community Digital Divide:
  Concerns about organizing Black elders on platforms like Facebook and ensuring all communities remain supported and informed. [27:11]
• Notable Moment:
  Hosts and guests discuss how Black women have long tracked their cycles with calendars and dots—current digital debates are modern iterations of old practices. [28:02]

  “We’ve been doing it. Nothing is new.” – Martina & Gabrielle [28:32]

The Power and Necessity of Storytelling

[28:37 – 32:14]

• As Cultural Roadmap:
  “Storytelling is critical...in the reimagination of what our political systems and landscape can look like...how we connect past and present to the future.” – Gabrielle [28:51]
• Oral Tradition as Resistance:
  NATAL insists on “passing a microphone to everyday families...a roadmap...to really navigate how to move forward.” [29:25]
• Therapeutic Value:
  “Storytelling can be very healing...there’s something that can be very therapeutic about that. There’s also something that can forge connection and community.” – Martina [30:56]
• Innovative Care:
  Post-interview care sessions with licensed psychotherapists for storytellers—“We knew we could not leave people high and dry.” [32:50]

Preserving Black Oral Tradition in a Digital World

[35:51 – 39:52]

• Recording as Archive:
  “Audio is one of the most intimate forms of media...it lends itself to the oral tradition in that art form.” – Martina [36:24]
• Beyond the Podcast:
  • Expanding to Zoom, IG Live, arts programming (e.g., doll-making at LACMA).
  • Developing conversation guides and in-person events to ensure stories live beyond the RSS feed. [37:26, 39:24]
• Community Engagement:
  “We’re trying to meet people where they’re at and make sure they’re cared for...The podcast will always be the thing...but we want to find other spaces.” – Gabrielle [39:24]

Looking Ahead: South as North Star, Expanding the Dialogue

[40:05 – 42:00]

• Future Directions:
  • More Southern voices (“We always end up in the South...that is where the majority of Black folks live.” – Gabrielle [40:18])
  • Partnership and archiving with cultural institutions.
  • Exploring untold stories, new formats.
• NATAL’s Audience:
  • Both traditional (Black birthing people, gender expansive folks) and “unlikely” listeners (men, partners, families)—“We all know someone who has had a baby, who’s had an abortion...Natal offers education, insights, language, and radical values.” – Martina [42:15]

Centering Joy, Not Just Trauma

[43:37 – 47:15]

• Embodying Full Spectrum:
  “We’ve never come at this as just highlighting what’s scary, what’s negative...there are also people having beautiful and empowered and affirming experiences.” – Martina [44:06]
• Why Joy Matters:
  “Joy is necessary for liberation.” – Gabrielle [45:20]
  • Early fears softened by hearing and holding joyful stories
  • Creating new narratives gives rise to new systems of care
• Balanced Storytelling:
  “We do lift up stories of trauma and harm, but also what’s possible with the reimagining...why it’s so necessary to this work.” – Gabrielle [46:30]

Where to Find Natal

[47:23 – 47:44]

• Listen wherever you get podcasts.
• Follow on Instagram & Twitter: @natalstories.
• Newsletter & more: natalstories.com

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On centering Black voices:
  “We’re really thinking wholeheartedly and in conversation with families, providers, birth workers...about liberation in this way.” – Gabrielle [08:12]
• On abortion and stigma:
  "Our focus is always—how do we kind of remove the shame and the stigma that’s around abortion care or the decisions people make about their bodies?" – Gabrielle [15:40]
• On communal care:
  “Mutual aid has been this consistent theme...how Black folks continue to organize for and amongst each other...consistently building power.” – Gabrielle [23:15]
• On post-interview care:
  “We knew we could not leave people high and dry...We want our work to be restorative and reparative.” – Martina [32:50]
• On joy:
  “Joy is the goal, the joy is the destination, and it’s why we’re here.” – Martina [45:20]
  “Joy is necessary for liberation.” – Gabrielle [45:20]

Key Timestamps to Revisit

• [05:27] – Gabrielle introduces the origins of NATAL
• [06:17] – Martina on how each season is guided
• [11:13] – Gabrielle discusses sharing her abortion story and self-care
• [14:23] – The Dobbs decision’s impact on season three
• [21:38] – Ms. Marie Lenor and Black organizing history
• [24:41] – Digital privacy and reproductive care
• [28:51] – The radical power of Black storytelling
• [36:24] – Preserving oral tradition in podcasts
• [40:18] – The importance of Southern Black stories
• [45:20] – Centering joy as liberation

Episode Takeaways

• NATAL is both archive and activism—educating, connecting, and advocating systemic change via storytelling.
• Communal and self-care are as central for creators as they are for the storytellers and listeners.
• Reproductive justice for Black communities is a legacy of organizing, resistance, and mutual aid, not a new movement.
• Digital documentation expands, but doesn’t replace, the Black oral tradition.
• Joy, healing, and reimagination are non-negotiable in the pursuit of liberation.

For more, visit natalstories.com, follow @natalstories, and check the Therapy for Black Girls show notes.