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Therapy for Black Girls
I Have Some Thoughts Minisode | 10 years of Insecure, Drake & The White House, James Charles, Cheyenne Bryant
00:22:16
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- [00:00]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.
- [00:04]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Have you heard of the Lip Bar? It's a black owned beauty brand with products that are really easy to wear and just fit into your routine. They have everything from complexion to lip and it's the kind of makeup you can put on during the day and still feel good about if you're heading out later. Their non stop liquid matte in the shade Boss lady has been a longtime favorite of mine and as a red I think every black woman should have in her collection. When you wear the Lip Bar, it will do what it needs to do. You can find the Lip Bar at retailers nationwide or on thelipbar.com and use the promo code TFBG for a 20% discount. The Trump administration and its backers in Congress are messing around with their health care. They already passed a law defunding Planned Parenthood that blocks Medicaid patients from getting life saving care like cancer screenings, wellness exams, birth control, STI treatment and more. And now these lawmakers want to shut down health centers by defunding Planned Parenthood permanently. Our communities deserve better. To learn how you can get involved, Text update to 22422.
- [01:04]
Elise
Mom, can I have Lingokids? Dad? Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house?
- [01:10]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs. This week it's Lingokids.
- [01:14]
Elise
Why Lingokids? Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes. With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [01:28]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [01:30]
Elise
Lingokids. Everything kids love, download it for free.
- [01:36]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Ready or not, here they come. The new generation of leaders is in the making and these girls are already strong, smart and bold. Girls, Inc. Is the leading expert on girls and they're dedicated to helping them develop their inherent strengths and abilities, uncover new ones, and tell the world about their potential. No matter what path she chooses or dreams she has, Girls Inc. Equips each girl with experiences, skills and confidence to succeed whether you're ready for them or not. Visit girlsinc.org.
- [02:17]
Elise
Hey y', all, we are back with another I have some Thoughts Minisode, where we are talking about some of the pop culture things that you may be talking about paying attention to, but from a mental health lens. And I am here this week with Elise, who many of you have heard on the podcast before. She is our director of podcasting and digital content.
- [02:35]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Hey Elise.
- [02:36]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Hey Dr. Joy. I'm so excited for this week's Rundown. We have a lot to talk about.
- [02:42]
Elise
All right, where do we start?
- [02:44]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So I'm going to kick it off with a topic that is very near and dear to me. This year we are celebrating 10 years of Insecure. And woo. Am I excited. Insecure came out. I was a freshman in college. I think I had, like, recently moved into. It wasn't even my first month. So I have a lot of kind of formative memories tied to Insecure. And so now that we're 10 years after the show's premiere, Issa Rae and Prentice Penny, who's Insecure showrunner, have launched the Rewatch podcast Block Party. So you know the block cc, where they'll be discussing behind the scenes anecdotes and spilling on what it took to bring the show to life. We talked about the show on this podcast. It was definitely still going on when I first joined. And from, like, through conversations with you, conversations with our audience, we know that the show has connected with so many black women in so many aspects of life. It sparked many conversations about dating, career and family life. And so much of what the show discussed just seemed to resonate with people, I think more than a lot of shows have over the past couple years. I want to start with where were you when you first saw insecure?
- [03:58]
Elise
Ooh, 2016. So I was the mom of a three year old and a newborn probably so. So I was deep in the trenches of figuring out my life with kids. And I don't remember exactly what month it premiered and I don't remember exactly where I was when I saw the premiere, but I do remember being very excited about it. It was something that had like, a lot of, like, promo and like, it seemed like just a really, really good show that talked about, like, a lot of the topics that were of interest to me and like the team and the community and one that we hadn't like, seen in a while.
- [04:29]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Why do you think the show struck a note with so many people? Both when you think about, like a greater community of black women and black people, but also I think internally for our team where, you know, I think we sit at the intersection of mental health and entertainment.
- [04:44]
Elise
So one, like I said, I think it was the kind of show that we hadn't seen in a while. Like, to me, Insecure is in the lineage of like a living, single girlfriends, just regular black people living their lives kind of thing. And I think we were all very, like, hungry and thirsty for that kind of content. And, you know, many of us were also fans of Awkward Black Girl on YouTube. And so I think we were fascinated and just captivated by Issa's hilarious, like, timing and like, just, you know, the stories that she was bringing forth. And so I think we were very excited to see this as the next step in her career. And I don't think it disappointed, but I do think there were so many topics and conversations and life experiences that were introduced by Insecure that really just resonated with people and we really kind of saw ourselves and our life experiences on screen.
- [05:34]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I don't know if you've rewatched it recently or if you've thought about any of the themes, but do you think the show will still hit the same way 10 years later?
- [05:44]
Elise
Oh, absolutely. So just like Living Single episodes still hit for me, however many years later that has been. I think Insecure will have that same kind of staying power. Insecure tends to be one of my. If I'm like traveling for work or something like that and there's like nothing on, it will be the thing that I will put on in the background. So I haven't done like an intentional kind of rewatch, but it is a comfort show for me for sure. But I do think I revisit the content just kind of generally in my thinking, like in the things that we talk about on the podcast and the kinds of things that we share on social media. I feel like just recently there was an episode I did kind of after the show ended where Issa had talked about what would it look like if you actually went after the things you wanted in your life? And I did, I think, a whole solo episode on that. And I think I just talked about it on my Threads channel recently as well. So I think I revisit the content in those ways, even though I may not be sitting down to do a full rewatch, but I have seen lots of people talk about doing rewatches. So I think it was brilliant that they are doing a rewatch podcast because 10 years feels like a good, okay, let's kind of talk about what was going on and here's some of the stuff that y' all didn't know. So I think that that will just also encourage people to rewatch as well. So I'm very excited to check out the podcast and maybe even do a rewatch now that we are getting behind the scenes content.
- [07:03]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Have you revisited?
- [07:04]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I definitely revisit it often. I think there are just so many singular episodes that are just great episodes of television. Living here in la, I also just love to see LA pictured in that way. But Also think about, like, the Easter eggs of places that I've visited that I haven't visited that are no longer here. And I think it's very nostalgic in that way. I do have one more question, so I'm going a little bit off script. You might not be able to give us a yes or no answer, but do you think Molly was a good friend? You know, I'm messing up.
- [07:39]
Elise
Not a conversation from left field. Oh, gosh, I don't know that Molly was a bad friend. I think that there were some very complicated dynamics in the relationship between Molly and Issa, which is why that last season was so, like, powerful and, like, really ran up the numbers. Right. I can't think of any other content on screen where we saw, like, a friendship breakup and those dynamics play out. I think there was just a lot of messiness to Molly. Right. But I think she was human. And I think that that is what really translated for people, that you either were very mad at Molly because of, oh, she's not a good friend, or you resonated with maybe some parts of yourself that you were not proud to admit that you then saw in Molly and realized, like, oh, this may be something I need to work on for myself. So I don't know that she was a bad friend, but I do think that there were some complicated dynamics for sure.
- [08:29]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I'm very curious as we're approaching the 10 year anniversary, like, specifically, I think it is in September or something like that. But it does seem like in Zeitgeist, when I read Essence or the Cut, there are a lot of conversations being had about female friendships. And so I'm curious through an editorial lens how people, writers, critics will explore that, because I think we're hearing a lot about, like, friends falling out or like, you know, it may not even be worth it to call out somebody's behavior. It's kind of hard for people to change. And there are a lot of different opinions, but I think a lot of them can be explored through Issa and Molly's relationship.
- [09:08]
Elise
Absolutely, completely agree. I mean, I wrote about it in Sisterhood Heel. So it is just there are no shortage of amounts of content and, like, topics to discuss from what we got from Molly and Issa.
- [09:18]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Absolutely. So moving right along. Over the weekend, Drake released not one, not two, but three albums. So Iceman, Habiti and Maid of Honor. The White House faced backlash after posting an edited version of Drake's Iceman album artwork with MAGA imagery attached to it. Many people online criticized the administration for turning political messaging into meme content and using pop culture aesthetics to soften or market like, a serious issue. And I think the, you know, one of the core tensions here is what happens when serious issues are packaged as memes. And so my question for you is, how does turning politics and, like, heavy serious political topics into Internet humor impact people's emotional connection to real world issues?
- [10:08]
Elise
So I saw that the glove was used. What was the message used from the White House when they shared it?
- [10:13]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Well, I think that the. What Drake is doing with his hands on the album, whether intentional or not, is a white nationalist signal. And then Iceman, which, again, it's like, was he aware of these themes or not? It could be like, ice. So, you know, like the homeland security of it all, man. And so Trump basically used that in his favor, which I find just really interesting. But it's also weird when you see that level of subversion and, like, meme culture used by our administration.
- [10:48]
Elise
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely think it is something that you have to be careful about. And I think, especially given this political climate, like, you would have to be extra, like, aware of, like, the sensitivity that people have to so many of these, like, traumatic and horrific legislation that has come out. I mean, but why would this administration do that? Because that is the name of their game. Right. And so I don't consider them to be, like, a responsible or engaged, holistically kind of administration. So I'm not surprised that they used it in this way. But it does feel particularly disgusting given Drake is a popular hip hop culture. And so many of the, like, the legislation and the policies that have come out of this administration are kind of fly in the face of, like, the history of hip hop and, like, the people who consider themselves consumers in the history of hip hop. So I think that that is particularly nasty. I do think, though, in different times and with different maybe administrations, there is a way to use pop culture and memes to, like, politically engage with people who are very, like, chronically online, so to speak. Right. Like, I think we saw a lot of this with Kamala HQ and even with Joe Biden's presidency. Like, I feel like there were a lot of, like, young people on those campaigns who were really responsible for, like, clipping some of his content and, like, really rallying and helping people to get excited about politics in a different way. And those are not people that maybe you would have reached by just, like, having them tune into the debate. Right. And so I do think that there is a way to use these kinds of things. Responsibly and ethically, I don't trust that this administration is doing any of that. And I'm also a little surprised, though, maybe not that there's nobody on like, Drake's team who like, paid attention to, like, how this might have been used. Right. Even if he was not aware, like, you know, where the ar. The marketing people, like, did anybody think about, oh, this could be misinterpreted in this way and this may not be like the attention we want for the album. I am curious about why that might have been missed.
- [12:47]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah, I am curious about that as well. But I do also think in recent years, and you know, I think we've seen this throughout music and throughout music marketing, but. But a lot of times people like, the controversy works in their favor. And so I'm not to be accusatory, but almost questioning, like, well, were they aware of it? And we're just like, well, this would bring more attention to the album anyway.
- [13:12]
Elise
Very possible. Very possible. You bring up an excellent point. Right. Because all attention is good attention when you're trying to like, get streamed and get downloads. Right. So you're very right. Like, they may have seen it and been like, yep, that's exactly the, the lever that we want to pull.
- [13:24]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Okay, our next topic is we're going to talk about Spirit Airlines, which we did a few weeks ago, but now we have an influencer who's in the mix. So James Charles went viral after calling a laid off Spirit Airlines worker lazy for asking for financial support after losing her job during the airline collapse. He later apologized, but the interaction, I think sparked a broader conversation around influencer, their wealth, empathy, and disconnects around class that are happening online. And I'm curious, how can privilege impact someone's ability to empathize with instability or the way people survive and the stresses around that?
- [14:07]
Elise
Yeah, I think it makes it so that you don't have the same sense of reality. There's a perspective taking that I think becomes slimmer when you reach certain levels of privilege. Right. And definitely socioeconomic or, you know, wealth will prevent you from like some of the modern kinds of concerns of people getting laid off or not show how they're gonna, you know, feed their kids tomorrow. And so I think that that is kind of like inherent to the system of privilege is that you are in a different kind of stratosphere. And so the concerns that people who are not in that same level don't actually register for you in the same ways. This does feel particularly callous to me because if it was the case that he was not going to help this person. Like, why not just ignore it or send her a message and say, sorry, I can' right now? I think the callousness is not necessarily about the not helping. It's about like them making content out of it. Because what motivates that part, right? That feels okay. That was particularly insensitive. Like, even if it wasn't something that you could help with or that you wanted to help with, was the video that he made about it an attempt to keep other people away from asking? Like, I'm just very curious around, like the motivation for why she's already down on her luck and like needing assistance. And now you have punched down to like make a video that you share with your humongous platform.
- [15:26]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And it definitely does feel like hustle culture. And right now and over I think the past 10 years, a collective focus on entrepreneurship have really shaped the way we judge people who are experiencing hardship. We see influencers who have this narrative of being self made. We see a lot of people who have been able to elevate their situation through working for themselves. But when, you know, I think that does influence how we talk about and how we judge people who may be laid off or having a bad work situation does seem like you should be working harder. You could work for yourself. Talk to me about your thoughts on that.
- [16:07]
Elise
Well, shout out to my friend and guest on the podcast, Dr. Keith Holman. Her book is called no One is Self Made. Because none of us have done any of the things that we've done by ourselves, right? None of us just woke up. I mean, well, maybe if some privilege, but if you are somebody who has built something, you didn't likely build it yourself. Like there's a whole team of people involved. And I think there has been so much glorification of entrepreneurship in making people feel like it's like an easy thing to just put up a shingle and like sell stuff online or offer some kind of service. And it honestly is not. But even if it's easy to make some sales, it's not like all that it's cracked up to be in terms of the impact on your mental health and like all the ways that you have to think differently about business structure and taxes and things. There's a whole world involved in entrepreneurship that I don't think rises to the top when we have these conversations about how easy it is to just make money for yourself. And I don't think we are doing people any fairness when we leave out those more difficult parts, more stressful parts. And make it seem as if you can just make money online. It honestly is not that easy.
- [17:12]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for that.
- [17:16]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
More from our conversation after the break. Have you heard of the Lip Bar? It's a black owned beauty brand with products that are really easy to wear and just fit into your routine. They have everything from complexion to lip and it's the kind of makeup you can put on during the day and still feel good about if you're heading out later. Their non stop liquid matte in the shade Boss lady has been a long time favorite of mine and as a red I think every black woman should have in her collection. When you wear the Lip Bar, it will do what it needs to do. You can find the Lip Bar at retailers nationwide or on thelipbar.com and use the promo code TFBG for a 20% discount.
- [17:52]
Elise
Mom, can I have Lingokids? Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house?
- [17:58]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
No idea. Last week it was Dinosaurs.
- [18:00]
Elise
This week it's Lingokids. Why Lingokids? Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes. With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [18:15]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [18:19]
Elise
Everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [18:23]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Ready or not, here they come. The new generation of leaders is in the making, and these girls are already strong, smart and bold. Girls Inc. Is the leading expert on girls and they're dedicated to helping them develop their inherent strengths and abilities, uncover new ones, and tell the world about their potential. No matter what path she chooses or dreams she has, Girls, Inc. Equips each girl with experiences, skills and confidence to succeed whether you're ready for them or not. Visit girlsinc.org these days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations.
- [18:59]
Elise
But not in Rhode Island.
- [19:01]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode island all that. Plan your trip today at visit rhode island.com that's visit rhode island.com
- [19:25]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
so Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, who you may have seen on Cam Newton's podcast and just in these Internet streets, has faced intense online scrutiny after people question the legitimacy of her doctorate degree. And the situation has raised concerns about trust and expertise within wellness mental health spaces. And I'm curious, how has social media blurred the line between mental Health influence influencers and actual clinical care and people with expertise, degrees, credentials.
- [19:58]
Elise
I think it has gotten very blurry, and I think some of it is the responsibility of the person themselves. But I do think that there is some shared responsibility with the platforms because we know that things that are more controversial, things that are more do this now and this will happen. Like, those are the. The kinds of things that raise to the top in terms of algorithms, right? And so those are the kinds of things that get pushed out more. And so when you are operating ethically, like people who are licensed clinicians do, you're likely not making those kinds of statements like, oh, try this, and this will improve your life in 30 days, because it's unethical and we could lose our licenses for saying those kinds of things. Right. And so that means that we maybe are not seen in algorithms as much. But I do think. I think that there is a lane for people to share all kinds of different things online, right? So if you are somebody who has struggled with a mental health concern, like, it is perfectly fine for you to share your experience. And, you know, other people may likely be helped by hearing that other people face similar kinds of things. I think the blurriness comes when you are using that or something else as expertise that, like, credentials you to then help somebody to do something else. Because lived experience is not all that is needed to, like, help somebody who has a mental health concern. And, you know, I think a lot of the things that are happening with Dr. Bryant is that people are not sure that there actually is an advanced degree, even though she is calling herself doctor. Right. And so, you know, I think that there are some honorary doctors that have been bestowed, and I guess that maybe gives you permission to call yourself doctor. But I think when you look at the, like, the advice and like, the kinds of things she's saying on these platforms, people will look at the doctor title and her, you know, she's kind of couching herself as, like a life coach and a psychology expert, but the general public will see that doctor title and then assume, like, oh, this means that this is a licensed professional, or this means that, like, she has some expertise to talk about these things. And that is not always the case, right? I mean, that may not be the case here. And so I think it does damage to the public's trust of mental health professionals when people are not honest about their credentials, because that is something that really kind of helps us to keep the integrity of the field and allows people to share some deeply personal things. Because there is a licensing body that we report to right now. The licensing boards are not foolproof. You know, like, there's definitely room for improvement, for sure. But right now, it is a system that we have to at least do some service in terms of protecting the public from people who do not have goodwill, who have not done the representative training and supervision and like, all the things that are required to make sure that you are a good steward of the profession. So I think that that kind of confusion really damages the public trust.
- [22:54]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I'm really glad that you mentioned licensing boards. Not they're not perfect. Because I do think a lot of pushback, that people start to talk about the perils of therapy. And, you know, alternative medicine has always been popular. Whether you're thinking about, like, supplements, whether you're thinking about, like, other healing modalities or just access to care outside of your traditional patient therapist relationship. When people push back or even say, like, I don't need therapy. I can just talk to a friend, I can talk to God, I can talk to my husband. How do you hold that tension of, like, we do on the show, we talk to a wide range of people, but also, like, prioritizing clinical expertise. Yeah.
- [23:38]
Elise
And I don't think that there's anything wrong with, like, seeking out the. The avenue that feels like the best fit for you. Like, therapy is not going to be the answer for everybody. Nor, like you mentioned, is it accessible and affordable, like, relevant for everybody. But I do think that there should still be some guidelines that you're using for any kind of provider that you are working with. Right. So maybe it is not therapist, a therapist, but who is this person reporting to? What kind of work have they done so that they are qualified to actually speak to you about these kinds of concerns? You know, like, there still should be some vet, even if it is not working with a licensed mental health professional in the more traditional sense.
- [24:18]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And my last question is, why can confidence and certainty and what we call looking put together sometimes feel more trustworthy than actual expertise?
- [24:29]
Elise
Ooh, this is such a good one. And I think, you know, some of this is, I think the ways that the algorithms operate. Right. Because again, if you get online and talk with confidence and really seem as if you know what you are talking about, people are typically, like, attracted to that. Right. It makes you feel credible. Right. There's all this research that talks about, like, what actually builds credibility. But I do think it's important to have some substance to back that up. But I think for people who have figured out this is why we see a new documentary on Hulu and Netflix every other month about like some cult or some scam that has been successful because people who do not mean you well also know this research, right? And so if you get online and talk with confidence and you look put together, it doesn't really matter whether you know what you're talking about or whether you actually can help. People will buy into it. And so I think it's really important for us as consumers to be wise about who we are paying our money to, who we are accepting mental health advice from. Right? Like, it's just there is no barrier on who can open up their phone and film content to share with you in the ideas of wellness. Right? Like there is no gatekeeping there. Like anybody can do it. And so even if something sounds good to you, it is important for you to vet who that information is coming from. What kind of board do they report to? Who are the other people who have been helped by this person? Where are they getting this research from? Like what is the basis for the information they are sharing with you? I think that that is still really important.
- [25:59]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Well, thank you so much for your perspective. I always have questions. The team has questions, you have questions. So I'm glad we could take a couple of minutes to unpack feeds. We will see you all next week.
- [26:11]
Elise
Yes. And if there are things that you are paying attention to watching in the pop culture zeitgeist that we haven't touched on, definitely send those to us at therapy for black girls.com mailbox.
- [26:27]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Have you heard of the Lip Bar? It's a black owned beauty brand with products that are really easy to wear and just fit into your routine. They have everything from complexion to lip and it's the kind of makeup you can put on during the day and still feel good about if you're heading out later. Their non stop liquid matte in the shade Boss lady has been a long time favorite of mine and as a red, I think every black woman should have in her collection. When you wear the lip bar, it will do what it needs to do. You can find the Lip Bar at retailers nationwide or on thelipbar.com and use the promo code TFBG for a 20% discount. Hey, quick question for the parents listening. When's the last time your kid asked for something and you actually felt good saying yes? Because lately a lot of families have been hearing the same thing. Can I have Lingokids please? And here's the thing. Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids with more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows. Astronauts, wild animals, superheroes, dinosaurs. It's literally everything kids love all in one place. So when they ask for it, you can actually feel good Saying Yes. Download LingoKids for free and start exploring today or unlock even more amazing content with LingoKids Plus. And if you go with the yearly plan, you can save up to 60%. Search lingokids in the App Store or Google Play Lingokids Everything kids love Ready or not, here they come. The new generation of leaders is in the making, and these girls are already strong, smart, and bold. Girls, Inc. Is the leading expert on girls, and they're dedicated to helping them develop their inherent strengths and abilities, uncover new ones, and tell the world about their potential. No matter what path she chooses or dreams she has, Girls Inc. Equips each girl with experiences, skills, and confidence to succeed, whether you're ready for them or not. Visit girlsinc.org these days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations.
- [28:26]
Elise
But not in Rhode Island.
- [28:28]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode Island. All that. Plan your trip today at visitroadisland.com that's visit Rhode Island.com this is an iHeart podcast.
- [28:51]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Guaranteed human.