← Therapy for Black Girls
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- [00:00]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human
- [00:04]
Podcast Advertiser/Narrator
this month, BET fan favorite series are stepping into the spotlight with their Paramount debut, delivering all the drama, desire and can't miss energy you've been waiting for. Stream new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorced Sisters and catch up on new seasons of Zatima. Plus, don't miss all the Queen's Men and Tyler Perry's Ruthless, all now streaming on Paramount alongside even more BET content. It's the perfect time to revisit the stories you love and discover new ones along the way. Head to paramountplus.com to get started today. Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a severe autoimmune condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like Myositis and Igan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:07]
Child
Mom, can I have Lingokids? Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house?
- [01:13]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs.
- [01:15]
Child
This week it's Lingokids. Why Lingokids? Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes. With more than 4,000 interactive games, song and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [01:30]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [01:35]
Child
Everything kids love, download it for free.
- [01:47]
Podcast Advertiser/Narrator
Hey y'. All.
- [01:48]
Elise Neal
Welcome back to I have Some Thoughts, our weekly therapy for Black Girls minisode series, where we are talking about all things pop culture, but of course, from a mental health lens. And this week I am joined by Elise, our director of podcasting and digital content. Hey, Elise.
- [02:02]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Hey, Dr. Joy. I am so happy to be back. While I was out, of course, I was enjoying my break, enjoying vacation. But you know in the back of your mind, you're like, the team is talking about something and I want to talk.
- [02:17]
Elise Neal
So what do we have on our list today? There's been so much happening.
- [02:21]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
There has been a lot happening. So we're going to start strong with the 2026 BET Awards, which aired this past weekend and honored the fabulous Lauryn Hill with the Living Legend Icon Award, which recognized her lasting impact on music and culture. Despite releasing just one solo studio album, the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, nearly three decades ago, she has remained one of the most Influential artists of her generation and industry disputes and creative differences have all contributed to her limited catalog. But I think the recognition at the BET Awards has prompted a lot to question whether artistic value should be measured by how much someone produces or by the lasting impact of the work they create. And so, you know, I think a lot about, like, in a culture that celebrates this constant productivity and output, what can we learn from slowing down and letting the work speak for itself? And so my question for you is, why do we often assume that more is always better or whether it's accomplishments, promotions, or creative work?
- [03:28]
Elise Neal
I mean, I think you talked to. Spoke to it in the question. I think so much of our society really glamorizes this idea of more equals better. Right? So even as you finish one accomplishment, then it is immediately going to like, oh, well, what is. What's next? Right. Like, that's even how we talk with one another. But I think if we could all be so fortunate as to do a thing like the miseducation of Lauryn Hill and that be our only thing, would that not be enough?
- [03:55]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Right.
- [03:55]
Elise Neal
Like, I. I think that if there's something that I did in my life and people compared it to the miseducation, I would feel pleased. Right. To be able to say that a work that you created 20 plus years ago still has such staying power. Like, I watched the BET Awards and immediately launched into a re listen of miseducation. Right. And so something that has that kind of staying power that feels just as relevant now as it did when I was a sophomore in college, because that's when it came out. Like, I can vividly remember being in my friend's apartment listening to this album. And so I think that that just really speaks to why we love Lauren in general, is that she creates this work that is so timeless, that really speaks to us through multiple levels of our lives. But I do think so much of society is just go, go, go do the next thing. And I think she has really just resisted that for one reason or another. Right. Some of it, I think has been legal, but I think also has she felt like there's anything else she needed to say on that same level as misjudgercation? Maybe not.
- [04:58]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I'm curious. What does it cost us when we feel like we always have to produce something new? What does it cost our mental health?
- [05:07]
Elise Neal
Oh, I think it kind of leads to exhaustion and burnout, which I think is really interesting because I've also seen this convers, been very struck by, like, how many black women are having this conversation when so many of us also find ourselves, like, depleted and exhausted. Right. And so instead of kind of looking at Lauren and holding her up to be, like, a possibility model of, hey, I could do this thing and not feel pressured to kind of rush into this next thing, we're questioning. We've kind of drank the Kool Aid, so to speak, of this idea that we have to constantly be producing to kind of prove our worth, to advance to the next stage. And I think it costs us a lot in terms of our mental health. So much of our identity then becomes tied to work, which can be fleeting. And so how good do you feel about yourself if you're not putting out this next thing, which I think is very detrimental to our mental health, but also the anxiety that comes with, like, trying to top this thing that you just did, or the depression when it feels like you are not raising to the levels that maybe you've previously gone to. And so I think that there is a huge cost to our mental health when we are kind of constantly going, going, going, instead of just being and, you know, allowing ourselves to sit with maybe the things that we've already created.
- [06:20]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I think something you said earlier that really resonated with me is questioning whether or not you have something to say. I sometimes will, like, peruse the timeline of Toni Morrison's releases, and obviously, books take a longer time to produce, but I do think there's gaps in between those books. There are very long gaps in between some of those books, and I think it does take a level of internal metering. Do I have something to say, or am I trying to appease an algorithm or some arbitrary timeline or goal? That's something I think about a lot. Me too.
- [06:55]
Elise Neal
And I think that that's a part of, like, my tension with social media, just because it feels like there's always a conversation happening. And I personally just feel like I don't need to talk if what I have to say has already been said. But I feel like so much of social media prioritizes and, like, praises this, like, saying something just to be a part of the conversation, regardless. I mean, personally, that is attention for me. Like, I don't want to talk if, like, the thing that needs to be said has already been said by somebody else.
- [07:22]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah, I don't think every medium, every conversation is for everyone, and that's completely okay. So my last question on this beat is, how can creativity benefit from rest, space or even long periods of quiet rather than constant output, which we talked a little bit about, But I'd love to hear your perspective as someone who has a book or who wrote a book and is producing and working on this podcast.
- [07:47]
Elise Neal
Yeah, I think we see it and I think that this kind of speaks directly to what I feel like has been a decline in, like, music, for example. Right. Like historically people would have one album and they would tour and you would see, you know, random singles kind of released throughout time and then maybe a couple of years later there would be another album. Whereas now sometimes we're getting like two albums a year and it's like there hasn't been enough time to breathe. And so I think for anything creative, you have to kind of sit with stuff right for it to be good. So people will often ask me, like, oh, what's the next book? I have no plans of writing another book right now. Like, there's nothing that I feel like I need to say again. And I feel like Sisterhood Heals still has time to percolate. There's still things I want to talk about from that book. And so I think sitting with ideas is really important for the creative process. I think things through to live with them, to breathe with them and dance with them. Like, the creative process, I think by nature is a slow one and it doesn't really lend itself to this next, next, next project that I think some of us feel forced to live in.
- [08:52]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I also think there's a difference between having some type of creative discipline in practice that gets you in the routine versus constant output, and that practice might be really internal. I also think about, you know, in terms of writing, you got to live a little. Like, how can you write your tar baby if you haven't even been outside? You can't do that. And so I always think about when I feel like I'm not producing some arbitrary level of output, I'm like, girl, part of the research is divine. Development is just living.
- [09:29]
Elise Neal
Yes, agreed.
- [09:31]
Podcast Advertiser/Narrator
More from our conversation after the break. This month, BET fan favorite series are stepping into the spotlight with their Paramount plus debut, delivering all the drama, desire and can't Miss energy you've been waiting for. Stream new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorced Sisters and catch up on new seasons of Zatima plus, don't miss all the Queen's Men and Tyler Perry's Ruthless, all now streaming on Paramount alongside even more BET content. It's the perfect time to revisit the stories you love and discover new ones along the way. Head to paramountplus.com to get started today. Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Life with a severe autoimmune condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like Myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it. It's about moving forward together. Listen to untold stories life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [10:58]
Child
Mom, can I have Lingokids? Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house?
- [11:04]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs.
- [11:06]
Child
This week it's Lingokids. Why Lingokids? Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games, astronauts, wild animals and superheroes. With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [11:21]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [11:25]
Child
Everything kids love, download it for free.
- [11:31]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So moving on to our second topic of the week, Money Long revealed that her 10 plus year struggle with lupus caused her to have a double lung transplant. You may remember last year she was on tour with Brandi and Monica for the Boy is Mine tour and had to drop out, unfortunately for health reasons. She shared on Good Morning America that at just 37, doctors had given her only a week to live. And I'm thinking about, how can a serious illness reshape someone's sense of identity?
- [12:02]
Elise Neal
Yeah, I was really shocked to hear this. I mean, of course her health information is private, but to know, I do remember her having to leave that tour, but never really knew why. And so to find out, like, how serious things were, I think was really kind of striking to me. And when you think about, like, illness, especially something that feels like maybe this sudden, I think it does really kind of shape your sense of identity and your sense of, like, normalcy and safety in the world, right? Because all the things that you knew before in her case, right, of like being a touring artist and probably being somebody who was super active and kind of on the go, instantly shifts when you have this kind of diagnosis and the doctor says, hey, you got to like, stop, right? Like, that goes against all the things that we just talked about. Right. In terms of how you make your living and how you identify as an artist and, you know, all the kinds of things that you've known about yourself. And so I think that there can be a huge shift to your identity when there is an illness that kind of really forces you to stop in the way that something like this did.
- [13:01]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
What does it mean or what might it look like to really grieve and give space to. To the version of yourself that existed before a major illness? Especially when there are, I don't like, characteristics or stereotypes of what it means for a person to have lupus or PCOS or whatever it may be.
- [13:21]
Elise Neal
Yeah, I think the grieving process is a very difficult one for lots of different reasons. And especially in this case, like we talked about, you know, when you kind of have identified yourself as somebody who is a touring artist and somebody who has the stamina to perform. And, you know, so much of, like, your physicality is tied into, like, what your voice even sounds like. Right. And so there were likely periods where she couldn't even sing, whether it was performing or not. And so there is a grieving of, this is what I thought my life would be, and this is the reality and the actuality of it, of what it is. And so how do I make peace with the things that I can no longer do, but also embrace the things now that may look very different? And even though I may not be able to do these kinds of things, maybe there are other possibilities that are open to me now, but you can't necessarily get to that, like, silver lining before you get to the, ouch. This really kind of sucks. And I don't like this.
- [14:17]
Podcast Advertiser/Narrator
Right.
- [14:17]
Elise Neal
Like, there is often a lot of, like, negotiation and anger when somebody is grieving because you have likely spent a long time developing the identity that you found yourself in. And so to kind of have that drastically pulled away is very, very difficult. And so I think allowing yourself to sit with that. I feel like we say that all the time here, but allowing yourself to sit with it and also getting support from people who maybe are in similar situations or people who really understand it and who won't rush you to, like, oh, okay, well, but we can do this, right? Like, you don't want people to rush you to that silver lining before you've actually had time to sit with. This is the new reality of my situation, and I don't love it, but at some point, I will be able to make peace with it.
- [15:02]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I love that.
- [15:03]
Elise Neal
I love that.
- [15:03]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I think you're the guru on this but sisterhood truly does heal.
- [15:09]
Elise Neal
It really does.
- [15:13]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And before we go today, we're going to talk about my Gemini little sister, Northwest, who was photographed at Paris Fashion Week with new lip piercings between her blue hair, her cheek studs, her nose piercings. All of this at 13 years old. I think her expression of herself has definitely caused a lot of conversation. And I'm curious, how can parents strike a balance between encouraging individuality and setting boundaries with their children, but also not shaming the individuality that we see other people express themselves within?
- [15:50]
Elise Neal
So I think one part of this conversation that's, that's really important to pay attention to is that 13 year old northwest is not having the same experience as like a 13 year old necessarily in Atlanta. Right. Like, this is a celebrity child who has a very different, like, experience of life than, like, non celebrity children. And so I think that that part of it can't be lost because she is existing in a very different world where, like, the rules may be different than the ones that you might have in your house. Right. But I think, you know, when you think about, like, 13 year olds and just their experience of themselves in the world, a lot of what is developmentally appropriate at that age is them finding themselves and figuring out who am I as separate from my parents and like my family and what does that look like? So there might be different hair colors that might be piercing. There may be experimenting with all kinds of different things. And so I think what's important is figuring out what does that look like in a way that is safe and healthy and respects the rules of whatever your family is. Right. And so I think something I've seen, and I think there's been lots of conversations in families around hair color. And so one way that I've seen, like, some families kind of experiment with this is like, during the summer when you're not in school, like, they will let kids be more experimental with hair. And so I think that that can be one way to, you know, allow them to experiment, but in a way that maybe is not breaking any kind of honor codes or dress codes. That's school. So I think having the child express, like, what kinds of things feel important and figuring out ways to do that that are healthy. Right. And so if it is piercings, can you take them to? I think, like some dermatologists do that now or even pediatricians will do that. So figuring out what kinds of things feel safe or like playing with non, you know, like, you don't have to get pierced to, like, you know, experiment with earrings. Or, you know, like that thing. So what kinds of thing is the child, like, trying to express and what kinds of ways can you allow them to do that in ways that feel healthy and also don't feel, like, too big of a stretch for you?
- [17:50]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
How do you think also parents may be able to reckon with their child's expression, like, visual expression being outside of, like, what they feel comfortable with in terms of, like, it may be like, representing like a subculture or. Or to your parents, like, I don't. If I don't get it, this is weird. How do parents, like, grapple with that without shaming their kid? Like, where can we start to develop a point of understanding?
- [18:16]
Elise Neal
Yeah, I think this really goes back to the idea of raising the child that you have as opposed to the one that you thought you wanted or that you thought you did have. Right. Like, if a child is coming to you and say, hey, I want blue hair and these kinds of piercings, it may not be something that you get, but if it feels like something that's important to them, I think you have to ask yourself, what is the harm in this? Right. And I think for a lot of us, what we will recognize if we ask that question is that we are feeding into some kind of respectability politics. Right. Like this idea that my parenting will be judged because I let my child have blue hair or I let them have a bunch of piercings. Is it really causing any harm to your child and like, their development, these decisions they're making? Now, if it is, that's a very different kind of conversation. But if it is something as harmless as hair color or piercings, I think you have to really sit with, why am I so resistant to this? And understanding that this is a part of what they're supposed to be doing at 13 is like figuring out who they are, how they want to look, how do you fit in with friends? This is what's cool and what's popular. If it is not something that is harmful or unhealthy in some way, I think we have to get off our soapboxes and our high horses and say it's okay for a kids to experiment and kind of do different things, even if it's not something we would choose
- [19:29]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
for ourselves, well, thank you for that. I loved when you said raising the child that you have and not the one that you expected to have. That was beautifully put. Well, that's all I have for today.
- [19:42]
Elise Neal
Great topics as always. And if there are things that you're talking about in your circles that you'd like us to weigh in on, Please send that to us at therapy for black girls.com mailbox. But until next time, take good care of yourself.
- [19:54]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Bye.
- [20:02]
Podcast Advertiser/Narrator
Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a severe autoimmune condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and Eyegan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:34]
Child
Mom, are we there yet?
- [20:35]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
10 more minutes.
- [20:36]
Child
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower? What's up with them today?
- [20:40]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Lingokids.
- [20:41]
Child
That app we downloaded last week.
- [20:43]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
They love it. The games. Oh, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [20:49]
Child
No. With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids. Why didn't we download this sooner? Lingokids.
- [21:02]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Everything kids love. Download it for free. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.