B (2:57)

Edu.

A (2:58)

These days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode island all that. Plan your trip today at visit rhode island.com that's visit rhode island.com y' all know I love to chat with our producer team about the latest in pop culture. And this week we're talking all things the drama and you me in Tuscany. For different reasons, both of these films starring beloved black women have taken over the conversations we're having on social and in our own circles. What do these new age black romcoms say about how we currently look at love and relationships and who gets to tell those stories? We get into all of that and more in today's episode. But first, we are desperately in need of an emergency pop culture check in. A lot, maybe even too much, has occurred. And as a therapist, but also someone who appreciates and loves pop culture, it wouldn't be me if I didn't dig into the mental health aspect of all of this. There are spoilers ahead, so if you haven't seen the movies, make sure you do before you listen to today's episode. And if you want to share your thoughts on them, please do so on social media using the hashtag TBG incessions. Or join us over in Patreon to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com thank you for indulging in

B (4:31)

my pop culture musings. Now let's get into our conversation. So I am very excited to be here with Bria, our production assistant for our to be named in the future segment all about pop culture. It just feels like there's always so much going on around pop culture that I have some thoughts about, particularly this week. And so Bria and I slid into the booth, so to speak, for an emergency recording to kind of get some things off of our chest and to weigh in on some of the topics that we know that you are talking about, but of course with a psychology standpoint. So Bria, what do we have on the list to chat about today for

C (5:13)

sure, and there is a lot to talk about. First things first is the Michael Jackson movie. So the new Michael Jackson movie premiered this weekend. It revisits his rise to fame and notably the complicated relationship with his father, Joe Jackson. The film specifically highlights how Joe's intensity and his push for perfection helped create a global icon, but might have come at the cost of Michael's childhood and emotional well being. So from your perspective, how do we distinguish between healthy encouragement as parents and causing emotional and psychological damage?

B (5:48)

That's a big question, Bria. So first of all, have you seen the movie?

C (5:52)

Yes, I talked.

B (5:53)

Okay. Okay. So I haven't seen it yet, but my kids really want to see it. Do you feel like it is PG friendly? Like, is it kid friendly?

C (6:01)

I would say so. I would say so. They didn't touch on a lot of the, like, scandals and the things that he was accused of. I think they had to actually cut that out. So it took a lot of money and time to do that, but, oh,

B (6:14)

that was initially included.

C (6:16)

And then they, yeah, the estate cut it out. So they weren't allowed to include any of that. So it really was just like him as a child, like, how he kind of stood up to his father and stuff like that eventually happened.

B (6:27)

Okay, okay. So the question is, what's the line from, like, encouraging your child to be great and kind of be a star versus, like, psychological damage?

C (6:36)

Yes, exactly.

B (6:37)

And I feel like that's probably a pretty. Well, I don't know if it's a pretty clear line. I mean, because I think when you listen to stories or when I've heard accounts of people who go on to have kids who are like stars, Right? Like Michael Jackson and Serena Williams, you know, Tiger Woods. Like, I feel like we've heard accounts from their parents who talked about recognizing that there was something special there very early on. And that always feels like a struggle for me because, yes, you may recognize that, like, your kid has some particular skill or talent, but it feels like what happens when we push them to this level is that they lose, like, all sense of childhood.

D (7:17)

Yeah, right.

B (7:17)

And so I feel like for me, the line, as a psychologist feels very different given what I know about child stardom. And, you know, just like the things that I think are important for kids to develop, I don't know that in good conscience, I feel like I could make that decision to kind of say, okay, we're going to forego a more classic childhood to kind of lean into, like, this. This talent. But on the other hand, like, these. These people may not have developed into who they were going to be without this. But I feel like there has to be a line of, okay, we can lean into their Greatness, but it doesn't have to teeter then on to psychological damage. Right? Like, okay, we sign up for the extra practices, we let them do the singing classes, we let them perform or whatever. I think Joe Jackson is a special kind of, for sure, you know, outlier. Right. Because I think it wasn't just about, like, leaning into his greatness. Like, there was also, like, accounts of abuse and like, you know, really went too far. So I think that there's a way to kind of lean into your child's special talent and gift and kind of allow them to share that without it becoming an abusive situation. But I think the greater question is, what is the line around leaning into a talent and then how much of their, like, traditional childhood is robbed by always being in a practice, always performing, always doing those kinds of things? I mean, as somebody who, you know, knows enough about mental health to kind of know where that line is, it feels like it would be a no for me. But I am curious to hear about from other parents maybe who have recognized that your child, like, is great at something. What is the line for too much for you? I'd love to hear, because I don't necessarily have a definitive answer, just what I think I might do for myself.

C (8:58)

Yeah, no, that's great. And I think it kind of opens a broader question also, because in that same vein, what are some of those long term emotional effects where you're growing up in an environment where the love might feel conditional or on achievement of how well you do, whether in school or at events or with your talents too?

B (9:16)

That is such a good point. I hadn't even thought about that.

A (9:18)

Right.

B (9:18)

I mean, you know, because I think we know the stuff around kind of people feeling like their childhood is arrested. So this arrested development kind of thing. Right. Like, you almost stay the age that you were before, like, all this stardom happened. And so we know that there tends to be difficulty connecting with peers because maybe they have not been able to develop, like, those kinds of relationship skills with their peers. But I hadn't even thought about the idea that once your child is maybe like, bringing in a stream of income, and if the family is dependent on this income, then how does that change your relationship to your child? That's a very different kind of thing. And I think that's a part of the conversation people are often having with, like, child influencers or like, children online. Right. Like, should your child and, like, who they are and their interest be the thing that keeps the lights on for the house? And I think that that probably is a very unhealthy kind of dynamic because now you have moved into a employer employee relationship as opposed to, like, parent child, which is very different.

D (10:15)

Okay.

C (10:15)

No, that makes a ton of sense. Yeah. All right, let's move on to our next topic. We had to touch on Meg the Stallion and Klay Thompson. So Meg the Stallion shared via Instagram this weekend that she was cheated on by Klay Thompson. Now, this comes after several challenging years for Meg. She lost her mother a few years ago. She went through a very highly publicized traumatic event with Tory Lanez as well. It's honestly sparked a lot of conversations about emotional resilience when life just keeps delivering setbacks because it seems like one thing after another with her. From your perspective, what happens psychologically when someone experiences repeated emotional hits back to back?

B (10:59)

So can I just start by saying I was so heartbroken by this news.

C (11:03)

Crushed.

B (11:04)

Not necessarily because relationship goals or anything, but just because it felt like Meg genuinely was happy.

C (11:10)

Yeah.

B (11:11)

And finally felt like she had some peace. He introduced her to his family. And, you know, like you mentioned, like, we all know the story of her parents dying very early. And, you know, it did kind of feel like she was getting the support system in, like, the kind of surrogate family, so to speak, that she no longer had with her. And so I think just given all of the things we know, even publicly, right. Like, there's probably still tons that we don't know, but with the Tory Lanez case and her family members dying, like, she has had an incredibly difficult several past couple of years. Right. And so to have this now a heartbreak on top of all of the things, when it finally felt like maybe things were turning a corner, her just. It just was heartbreaking because she just seems like such a sweet spirit and, like, so fun and like just a sweet person. And so to have something like this happen so publicly I think is awful. Not that private would have made it better, but publicly definitely does not help. And so I think when you think about, like, resilience, I feel like at a certain point, like, we've developed enough.

D (12:14)

Right.

B (12:15)

Like, repeated awful things happening. Like, I feel like at some point, like, your bounce back factor, which is what resilience is, like you've had enough. And I feel like Meg has had enough. And so when you think about what happens after you've had repeated traumatic experiences, I think it is very easy to, like, withdraw, especially in romantic relationships. Who would want to sign up for something like that again?

D (12:37)

Right.

B (12:37)

So I think it probably changes the way you relate in terms of romantic partners or even interest in doing that. I think that, that it also could be a questioning of like, am I doing something to continue to end up in this case? And Meg, if you happen to listen to this, there is nothing that you are doing in anybody. Right. Like, when awful happen, it can be really easy to turn inward because we don't often have a lot of other answers. Right. And so a lot of times we turn to the easiest, most accessible thing, which is picking apart our own behavior. And so I think you can sometimes see some damage to self esteem, to feelings of worth and worthiness, some feelings of there's something that I'm doing, like I'm broken or I'm defective, which is often not the case. Right. Like we can't internalize other people's bad decisions and poor behavior. That's what comes to mind for me with this case is that I hope that she does not think that this is something about her or something that she did that would result in this person also not being honest and not being maybe who he presented to be to her.

C (13:41)

You touched on it on a little bit already. But if you could call Meg on the phone right now, what would you tell her? Because I think that when you're trying to give advice, how do people build resilience or stay strong when they're constantly in this mode of survival?

B (13:55)

Yeah. I think I would start by just saying I'm so sorry that this happened and feel awful that you find yourself in this situation again. But that there also is no pressure to be strong. Because when you have had awful things happen repeatedly like this, then I think most people would find themselves falling apart, which is totally okay. It's okay for us to have human reactions to human experiences. And this is a very sadly human experience, especially given all the things that Meg has experienced. If you don't feel like you want to be strong, I think that that is okay. And strength actually probably is not going to be doing you any favors right now. Right. Like it's okay to just feel the weight of how awful and sucky it is to have a heartbreak to lose somebody who you felt connected to both him and his family, and to maybe feel maybe embarrassed. Like whatever it is you are feeling, it is completely okay to feel that and to just allow yourself to feel that. But also hope that you have a support system who can rally around you and give you the space to grieve and to do, need to do to move through this.

C (14:57)

Agree. Yeah. I hope she takes a break soon because she was performing on Broadway like, yesterday I was like, you should take some time.

B (15:04)

Yeah, definitely.

C (15:05)

Well, our last topic of the day is all about Summer House. So we're entering Bravo land for this one. Okay, for a little bit of context, someone named Sierra Miller and Amanda Batula, they were on this show called Summer House. There is a situation where Ciara was dating a man and they decided it wasn't working. She ended up cutting it off. And then now a couple years later, Amanda, who is very close friends with Sierra, by the way, is now dating the same said man. It sparked a lot of conversation around the tensions of loyalty and boundaries and how friendships can even survive fallouts like this. So how do you get to a place of honoring your emotions and healing when in the opinions of others, you don't deserve it?

B (15:54)

Well, why wouldn't she deserve it, first of all? So I do not watch this show, though I'm a fan of some Bravo shows. I have not seen this season of Bravo, Summer House. So did Sierra and Amanda. Did Amanda start dating this guy when Ciara and the guy were still dating? Like, is this a cheating kind of thing or is it like, oh, we've been broken up for two years and now she's dating him.

C (16:15)

They were broken up for a few years and. Let me, like, reword the question. So essentially Amanda has come forward, or no, there was some leaked audio of the reunion, and there's been, like, a lot of conversation that Amanda has been like, oh, well, you know, this is just like what the heart wanted and I'm in love. How can you even deny that? I think paraphrasing, paraphrasing. But that's essentially what the gist is giving. So I think it's more so like honoring your emotions of this is how you feel versus do you actually deserve to feel that way because that's your friend from this woman, this white woman's perspective.

B (16:51)

Well, right, because that's the other. The other nuance to this, right, is that Sierra is a black woman and Amanda is a white woman. Feelings are valid. Right? Like, so if you feel like you were in love with this man or whatever, okay, like, we can acknowledge that maybe the feelings existed, but do we need to act on all of our feelings? And I think that that is the question. And so when I think about, like, being a girl's girl and, like, girl code, like, anybody who my friend who has dated, like, you basically don't exist to me anymore, like, after that relationship is over. And so, you know, like, I guess I could see a situation where maybe you develop Feelings. But I feel like the friendship has to be stronger and is it worth it? Right. Like, there are no shortage of random men you could be dating. So I do think it questions the loyalty and the like. Where does your allegiance lie? If a couple of years after the breakup now, especially if this was a significant relationship, this wasn't like a one time, like, oh, we went to dinner and got some appetizers and, you know, it was a loose kind of thing. Like, this sounds like it was a significant relationship that she probably cried to her friend about and, like, she knew intimate details. And so to me, a preexisting relationship with a girlfriend supersedes any kind of like, oh, I got feelings for this person because my girlfriend was there first. So I think it is like, yeah, you can be loyal to your feelings and acknowledge that maybe you have some feelings, but I don't think we have to act on all of our feelings. And in the situation of dating a friend's ex, I just don't think that that's a line that should ever be crossed.

C (18:25)

Absolutely. And you touched on the nuance a little bit already. But Ciara is a black woman and Amanda is a white woman. And I think from the leaked audio, there's been a lot of conversation on is she actually responsible for concealing those feelings? But I feel like that same grace isn't really being extended to Sierra. It's almost an expectation that, like, okay, if that was really your friend, you should be glad that she's happy now. Like, there's been a lot of conversation on social media that isn't exactly aligned, like, with what I personally would feel about it. But from your perspective, how do you release that expectation to take everything on the chin, especially when you're experiencing a lot of hurt? I think from Sierra's point of view, I think everyone's kind of picking sides right now, and there's almost this expectation as a black woman that, like, your feelings don't matter. Like, maybe this person's feelings take priority. So how would you navigate that?

B (19:21)

Yeah, I don't think she needs to take anything on the chin. Right. Like, I think historically black women have had to take a lot on the chin. And something that is such a personal attack or is such a personal experience, like your friend dating your ex, like, who wouldn't be upset about that? I mean, I guess maybe some people wouldn't be, but I think most people would feel some kind of way about it. Now. Some people might eventually get to a place where they're like, oh, you know, okay, Fine, like, we are done. And it's okay for you to do that. But I think most of us would feel some kind of way about a friend dating an ex. And so, again, you know, just like we talked about with Meg, like, it's okay to have a human reaction to a human experience. And so if you are hurt, you don't do yourself any favors. And you're healing any favors by, like, trying to suck it up and, like, pretend like it's okay or. I understand why she might not want to be super vulnerable on the Internet. And, you know, social media definitely doesn't deserve that. But in her private circles, I hope that she is able to talk about how much this sucks and that she's not okay with it. And I don't think that she should lean into the like, oh, I'm okay with it if she actually isn't, just so that, like, people won't paint her as a villain, because it's likely people are doing that anyway just because she's a black woman.

C (20:31)

Yeah.

B (20:31)

You know that people and, like, narratives are often spun to make black women the villains in a story. And in this case, I don't think she is. And so I don't think that there's a reason for her to kind of lean into that or leaning into forgiving her, moving past it if she is not actually ready to do that.

C (20:48)

Definitely. I could talk all day about how black women are treated on reality tv, but different conversation, very different things.

B (20:57)

A couple of episodes. So we may be due for another one. So thank you so much for sharing those, Ria. I definitely had some thoughts and clearly have lots of thoughts around pop culture stuff, but if there's something that you see or watch in the world that you would like us to weigh in on for this to be named segment of Pop Culture Talk, please send that to us. You can send it to us at therapyforblackgirls.com mailbox and let us know what you are paying attention to and we might include it in a future segment. Also, if you have ideas for what we should call this segment, what name should we give it? If you can't think of a catchy name for this segment, let us know that too, too. Again, you can share that in the mailbox@therapyforblackgirls.com mailbox or you can leave it in an Instagram comment. Send us a dm. We are checking all of those. Oh, well, I am very excited to be back with the team today for another one of our pop culture conversations. Always some of My favorites. So we will do quick introductions so that people who have not met the team can meet the team.

A (21:55)

So we will start with you, Bria.

C (21:56)

Hi, everyone, My name is Bria. I am the production assistant for tbg.

D (22:01)

Hi, everyone. My name is Elise. I'm our director of podcasts. Fancy way to say like senior producer, but you know, I'm always excited to talk about producers.

B (22:10)

I love Indy.

E (22:12)

Same. Hi, everyone. Happy to be back here with our little group. I'm Inda and I'm a producer on the podcast team here at tpg.

F (22:21)

A a Tyree. I am the resident he him at TPG and a podcast producer for both the podcast and tbgu.

B (22:28)

Perfect. So the team has taken the opportunity to start off the summer with some movie watching. You know, that's one of my favorite topics to talk about. And so we are going to be talking today about some of the new age rom coms. And the two latest introductions to this genre, I guess are the drama and Yumi in Tuscany. So we will start with the drama. So I will admit that I did not complete all my homework assignment. I did not get a chance to actually watch the drama. I did see you me in Tuscany. So I'm probably going to be more on the just facilitating this of the conversation. But everybody else on the team watched it. So how would you rate the film on a scale of 1 to 10 in Davey, we'll start with you first.

E (23:09)

I'll say we will be spoiling. There's no way to talk about these movies without spoiling. So if you haven't seen them, then just come back. Come back and listen. I'm going to give the drama. I'll give it an eight. I'll give it a solid eight.

A (23:22)

It's pretty high. What about you, Elise?

D (23:24)

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree.

E (23:26)

I'm giving an eight.

D (23:27)

Eight and a half. It was big. It was messy, it was fun. It was controversial. Like, this is why I literally feel like an ad for the mc. This is why people go to.

E (23:38)

Okay, yeah, I had a good time. It's like it was like a ride.

C (23:41)

It was a ride.

F (23:42)

I'm gonna go 7.5. I think that it was strong performances from the cast. It definitely broached a subject matter that is under discussed and is certainly like an interesting, I think way of doing it in like this modern context. It just didn't have the like extra oomph that I think makes a film like a plus to me. But it was really solid and I would rewatch it.

A (24:07)

Okay.

B (24:08)

And what about you?

A (24:09)

For you?

C (24:10)

I was going to say 8, 2. I really liked the performances from the cast. I just did not like the ending. Robert Pattinson.

E (24:17)

Higher than that.

B (24:18)

Okay.

C (24:18)

I wasn't a fan. He will.

B (24:22)

I feel like this is a very strong rating from this group in particular because y' all notoriously do not like very many things. And so to have it be like a 7, 8 range is very impressive. So I feel like at some point I'm definitely going to have to see it. Somebody give me a quick synopsis just so that I can be a little bit informed without.

E (24:44)

Oh, my God, what's the log line, y'?

D (24:45)

All?

E (24:45)

A couple,

F (24:49)

mentor, racial, are engaged. And over the course of their engagement, they have a group discussion with friends around deeply unlikable things about them. And the revelation from Zendaya's character about a deeply unlikable thing about her puts her at odds with not only her friend group.

D (25:10)

Oh, no, we can spoil it.

B (25:12)

No, you can spoil it.

E (25:15)

So a week before.

D (25:17)

A week before, a week before their wedding, they are at their menu tasting. Everyone is tipsy, leaning on drunk. And one of the couples, who's also an interracial couple, says, what? Something we did before we got married was shared the worst thing we've ever done. So they all go around and share it. And Zendaya's is that she planned a school shooting. Actually, it's not funny, but the movie is, like, supposed to. But it's very interesting because everything else that, like, she didn't do the school shooting, obviously, but everything else that everyone shares is terrible. Like, the things that they did are also, I mean, and you might think of it in a small way like one of the one woman she literally locked, what you're supposed to, like, was like a disabled kid in a closet and abandoned him. And he. Like, there was a search for him,

E (26:10)

like, and she said he was found. Like, we don't know if that's.

D (26:15)

You didn't say anything about it. The other guy, a dog was attacking him and his girlfriend. He used his girlfriend as a human shield and then knew that he was gonna break up with her in doing that. And then Robert Pattinson, Zendaya's fiance, cyberbullied a kid so bad that, like, he had to leave town.

E (26:34)

They're all. Yeah, they all actually did those things. But of course, yeah, when Zendaya shared that, they were like.

D (26:40)

And so the whole movie is about, like, the reaction to that leading up to the wedding. And then there's a whole bunch of drama at the wedding in the filming. That's really what happened.

B (26:52)

And so this movie was built as a rom com because, Because I, I think I was very confused about what this movie was even like in the, the promo. And I was like, what?

D (27:03)

I knew it was gonna have levity. Like, I knew it was going there was. Because the way people talk about like, that there was some shocking twist. It's 824. I was like, I feel like it's going to be on the darker side. There have been rumors on, like, Reddit and stuff that it was a school shooting. And then like, the week before, a parent, like a Columbine parent, like, made a comment about it. And so it was like, okay, but from the jump, I kind of knew that was going to have some type of, like, quirkiness or levity to it. Finally, it was billed as a traditional rom com. But when you pick apart the elements of the film, like, it's romantic, it's drama.

E (27:38)

It is sort of romantic because there's a wedding, there's like, a couple, but

F (27:43)

it is funny all the way through.

D (27:45)

I do think there's, like, romantic parts to the film, though.

E (27:49)

For sure.

D (27:50)

Yeah. When you see, like, their story of, like, how they met and things like that, like, in the beginning, I'm like, okay, this is cute.

E (27:58)

Yeah.

B (27:59)

At the beginning I'm really stuck here, y'. All. Like, I, I, I, I feel like this would be, I'm struck by this being, like, a plot line in something that, I mean, I guess in some ways it is a very sad reality of, like, our life. But, like, yes, I clearly. I gotta see the movie. Yeah, but, but it feels like I would have trouble moving past the fact that she has planned this school shooting and, like, all of these other awful things have done.

D (28:34)

I think.

E (28:34)

Yeah.

D (28:37)

The film.

E (28:37)

Yeah.

D (28:38)

It does not treat any of it lightly. You see, like, a younger version of Zendaya, which is probably, like, some of the funniest parts of the film implied that, like, she was kind of, like, abandoned as a kid. Like, parents not around, bullied in school. There's, like, a racial aspect to that.

E (28:57)

Like, like, I had way too much Internet access.

D (29:00)

Like, parental controls. Yeah, no parental controls. Her dad was in the military. She's clearly, like, radicalized online. She has, like, posters of, like, Little Wayne toting guns in her room. Like, you. I think they do a good job at explaining, like, how did someone even get to this point? And then she doesn't do it. And she also becomes, like, a gun reform act. This crazy. Like, oh, I think the film does a good job of, like, easing you into it throughout. So it does feel like now that you know what happened, it doesn't move on from it at all. Yeah.

E (29:35)

And it just continues to bring up points that ask the question, like, if our feet were held to the fire for, like, the things that we like almost. It's like, what is the line of almost? And, like, it's almost a thought. Like, at what point does it become something to be, like, charged for almost, or, like. Like, like, publicly shamed for? I think it brings up a lot of points about that and how we just kind of shape our own morality. Especially now when everything is. Your opinion is either a. Or it's.

F (30:11)

And they. I think.

E (30:12)

And, like, that's it.

F (30:13)

Yeah, I was gonna say you bring up a good point.

B (30:15)

No, go ahead.

F (30:16)

I think one of the things that stuck out to me about even that whole scene where they're admitting to their, like, the most terrible things is that all of them besides and harmed a marginalized community. And then they were all also outraged by a woman of color even having the thought of farming back. So there's, like, a lot of conversation and context around, like, feminine rage and black women being outraged or being reactionary to the harm that's performed against them. That doesn't necessarily. Is it. It isn't overtly spoken about in the movie, but I do think it's hard to ignore when you watch.

E (30:50)

Totally like it. You know, it's, like, hard to have the conversation without acknowledging that she was bullied. And I saw some people online saying, like, well, she wasn't bullied that bad. But when you're bullied at, I don't know how was she 13?

D (31:01)

Like, it doesn't take much in other. Because you look different. Yeah, I know. Like, Zendaya present is. Has more of, like. I'm gonna say she's white passing, but

C (31:14)

she's more, like, conventional.

D (31:15)

Might not be automatically that, like, she was, like, a black woman. Like, they may not read her that way, but the younger character, it's undeniable. So I think that's where. When we think of, like, school shooters, we do have this, like, oh, they're an other. They're an outcast. And I think what I did enjoy about the film is, in a very subtle way, it explored, like, how a black person could also feel that way. And I don't think when we talk about, like, bullying and then, like, the bullying to, like, violent rage pipeline, it's not saying, oh, we don't get represented in that way. Because people, like, who would want to? But I'm like. I think it's fair to say, like, maybe people have felt that way before. And I thought it was almost like, it was interesting that they explored that. I appreciated it because I don't think. Yeah, we don't see black people do school shootings, but who's to say that people have not felt that kind of, like, level of isolation before?

C (32:06)

Yeah, I also thought it was interesting that when they explored, like, why she didn't go through with it, it wasn't that she had the moral, like, oh, I can't do this. It was because someone did the school shooting first. And she was like, well, I guess it's like.

E (32:19)

Or it was like at a mall or something.

C (32:21)

Yeah, so it's like. So it's like she just.

D (32:23)

I think it was like the double. Yeah, it was a double thing where someone did it first. But also she saw how, like, repulsed people were buying and was like, well, this would other me further. And then her school has kind of like group therapy and, like, healing circles and things like that. And through that, you see her become more connected to people in her school community. She starts, like, organized around, like, gun reform and people like her and they're, like, complimenting her. And I think it also shows you the power of community and feeling included in scene because it totally changed the trajectory of her life. So I thought that was really interesting too. But I, like, I. It was funny because initially she's just like, yeah, I'm not gonna do it.

F (33:13)

Someone.

E (33:16)

And then when she shared that, when they were. When she. Or I don't know if she shared it in that moment or if she shared it later with Robert Pattinson, like, why she didn't end up going through with it. It was like, even more of a reason to be like, wait, so, like, it was like a thing that she didn't have this moral come around. And then, I don't know, it's just interesting because the Heim girl, I don't know her real name.

D (33:41)

Alana.

E (33:42)

Alana, yes. She's like, well, my cousin is paralyzed from a school shooting. And so it became like a personal thing for her. We'll talk more about, like, the down the line of it all, but I think it's interesting to see, like, where everybody pulled from when it came to, like, talking about was Zendaya, like, almost did or ideated or, you know, whatever, and then, like, why she decided not to do it.

F (34:08)

It's a little off base now, but to what Elise was bringing up about school shootings. Because when I watched the film initially and as I think about Zendaya and every role that she plays, I go, oh, this isn't meant to be a black woman. So because obviously we think black people don't do school shootings. But then I did some research afterwards and it's not so much that black people don't do school shootings, it's just the way that we report on them once they happen. So it's never a school shooting. It's it's gang violence. Or it's reframed as something that wouldn't offer you a sympathetic viewpoint for the shooter, which is a whole other thing that kind of definitely applies to the movie.

A (34:44)

More from our conversation after the break. You know that moment when your kid

B (34:53)

asks for your phone and you're already

A (34:55)

bracing yourself for whatever random video they'll disappear into? Have you heard of Lingokids? It's an app where kids are actually playing, singing, tapping and exploring stories. It's colorful, high energy, and designed so kids stay curious instead of just zoning out. They think they're getting a treat, and it was built just for them. Lingokids Everything kids love Download the Lingokids app now on your phone or tablet.

B (35:19)

It's free.

A (35:20)

Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. these days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode Island.

B (36:16)

All that.

A (36:17)

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D (37:05)

I'm curious. Dr. DeJoy, I have a question for you. So the movie brings up for me an interesting question around how much should you be sharing? I mean, you're not a marriage counselor, but, like, with your partner before you get married. And, like, what is the line between withholding something or something? Just like, it hasn't come up before. Like, this is a big thing. But honestly, if I was so ashamed of it and had, like, buried it, I would just be like, I wouldn't

E (37:33)

have said I should tell you this because it's also like, I was young and full of rage. Like, haven't we all been young and full? Maybe not to that point, but I do think it. I think I. I do think it matters that it wasn't done and then you. And then if that's what we're talking about, then that just, like, widens the pool of, like, who else has been in that same position anyways? But that was your question, Dr. Joyce.

D (38:01)

Yeah.

B (38:01)

I mean, I feel like this is a tough question because this feels like something I would definitely want to know of my, like, potential part partner. I do think, like you said, like, it counts for something, that it didn't actually happen, but what was the after fact? Right? Like, because to me, if you get to the point of planning something like this, then that does speak to a lot of rage and, like, the need to be talking to somebody about how we got to that place and what other things can happen. Right? And it sounds like she did by getting involved with, like, gun reform and, you know, like, lobbying against the thing that she was going to do, which is where she found her sense of belonging. And I think for a lot of these cases, that's what you hear, right? Like, that these people feel very outcast and really othered and need some sense of community in a place to be seen. So I think it's good that she got to that place. But I think that that is definitely something I would want to know. And so I think there isn't really any, like, hard and fast rules about the kinds of things that you feel like you have to share with a potential partner. But I think in the idea of, like, people making informed Decisions like if that would make a difference, but about whether you would marry this person or not, then that may be an indication that it is something that needs to be shared. Right. Like that. I don't feel proud of this. Here's how I turn my life around after this. But this is something I feel like you should know in the interest of, like, making a decision about who you want to build a life with.

E (39:28)

Well, they all need to be asking those questions then, because I think, like, locking a human being in a closet.

B (39:33)

Yeah, like, maybe pretty awful examples.

D (39:36)

Even during the movie, I was like, what would I say? And I think I was like, just thinking about the things that they said. I was like, these are objectively bad.

E (39:45)

Like, yeah, I don't have anything that touches that.

D (39:47)

Like, two things I would bring up and be like, okay, like, it's not that bad, but there's certainly a question

F (39:54)

of when and how to. So, Dr. Philip, a platforming that you should know is Zendaya's character is deaf in one eared, and this is as a result of her practicing the school shooting. One of the bullets went off and made her death. So a whole part of her development with Robert Patterson, romantically, is that he tries to spit game at her, but she can't hear any of it because she's deaf. So he's kind of embarrassed behind that. But he knows that she's deaf. He just doesn't know why. And so had he ever inquired as to the why, then he would know this thing much earlier. But it is so much that, you know, this has impacted your life in such a way that literally you are physically impaired because of it. Why does it not come up in your relationship discussion?

D (40:35)

Okay, that's. Yeah, that's like, maybe it did.

E (40:38)

Like, maybe, maybe outside of this and

F (40:40)

they're doing the dramaturgy, maybe it's doing the work.

E (40:42)

That's not something we'll ever know. I know, like, well, maybe what's the world that we don't know about? But then we can only deal with what we're seeing. I wanted to say, I think we started to talk about, like, Zendaya being black in the movie, or like, is she black in the movie? Or anyone could have been in this role. But I'm wondering if. Okay, sure, yes. You want Zendaya to be a lead in your movie because she is who she is. I think the blackness might come secondary or tertiary. I wonder. The director is a Norwegian guy. And I think as I was watching it, I was like, I wonder if maybe going into it, he wasn't really thinking about, like, the racial implications of her being black. But then as he's watching it, he's like, oh, this kind of plays in my favor because even, like, there's a moment in the movie after she drops this bomb, so to speak, where she's, like, making a smoothie, she's chopping up some fruit. She and Robert Pattinson are in the house, and she goes to the room to ask him something, and she has this big knife in her hand, and he's like, oh, like, he's shook. Like, oh, I thought you were gonna, I don't know, get me or whatever. And she's just like, why are you acting like that? Like, why are you acting like I'm this harmful person? And I think us knowing, like, Zendaya. I don't know of other people when they watch Zendaya, they're like, that's a black woman. But me watching, I'm like, oh, okay. I'm thinking about how her, like, potential to harm is being received in a way. And I just was wondering, like, if that was a black woman, would we all be receiving it the same way? And I don't think so. And so I feel like there's a fall off. I don't know if it's a benefit, but there's a fall off of, like, how her harm or potential to harm is maybe perceived because she is black. And I just don't know if that was the intention going into the movie.

D (42:33)

I think it's interesting because there's a scene towards the end of the movie when she kind of walks out the bathroom and at her own wedding, she's like, freaking out because people. I think she's hearing people whisper about this. And.

F (42:49)

Yes.

B (42:49)

Oh, so the secret has also left the circle.

D (42:52)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

E (42:53)

Oh, yeah. There's a whole.

D (42:55)

There's a whole day, but it does. Yeah, got it.

B (42:59)

Okay.

D (43:00)

And the woman who, like, is whispering is outside, and she's, like, taken aback. And it's a question that I asked. I'm like, would someone be, like, objectively, it's a terrible thing to idea and plan, but if it was a white woman, would there be so much fear around, like, who is this person, actually? And it just made me think about, like, when I had met people, like, first interactions, and then years later, they would say something like, oh, when I first met you, like, I was intimidated by you, like me.

E (43:35)

Like, that's what I mean.

D (43:38)

Yeah. And it's very interesting because the character, Alana Heim, her name Is Rachel in the film who's the most punitive on her? You can see from the beginning of the film, even before the secret is revealed, that, like, she just didn't like her or was, like, jealous of her and, like, saying little things to try to, like, put her down. And to me, that all felt, like, very racialized too. It was interesting because I'm like, yes, you want some day in your film? I think she's, like, legible to so many, like, like, races. But I kind of appreciated that she is a multiracial black woman because I think it made the film more complicated in a way that was entertaining and allowed people to, like, talk about it. I feel like there should have been one, like, small racial joke just to, like, acknowledge it.

F (44:27)

Oh, yeah.

C (44:28)

Especially because the other.

D (44:31)

Exactly, yeah. Like, the other couple was interracial. Yeah, I thought it was interesting.

E (44:37)

I think I also appreciated, as we're looking at Rachel in the movie Haim and how she's interacting with Zendaya. I think I appreciated being able to relate to coming into contact with that type of, like, white feminine, like, rage, where they're like, I feel really justified in this, and I am grandstanding in my, like, full morality because you did this, and that's bad. My misstep or my bad thing that I've done is forgivable or understandable because X. I think, like, most black women have come into contact with that type of white woman. And so I think I was like, oh, okay, I know exactly what this is. And I think, like, most black women watching movie would probably understand that too.

D (45:25)

Before we switch films, I do have a quick question for everyone. What will you answer to the worst thing that you've ever done?

E (45:33)

Oh,

D (45:41)

I know.

C (45:41)

Crazy.

F (45:41)

That's a dangerous game.

B (45:43)

I don't know that we're gonna do that. This feels like it could be a HR violation. Elise. I don't know if we.

E (45:52)

Things like.

B (45:54)

I mean, I don't even know what mine would be. I feel like, like, you. I'm like, oh, I think I stole, like, a pack of gum, maybe out of a drugstore or something.

D (46:02)

I remember the first time, like, I stole, like, a pack of gum, and I. I felt so guilty.

E (46:07)

What was the first time you stole? I stole out of the beauty supply store when I was very. I was gonna say, like, the candy was for sale. I think it was. Someone was eating it. And we went around the back, and

D (46:16)

I was like, mine.

C (46:20)

I specifically remember mine was a lip gloss from Target when I was, like, seven.

E (46:24)

I remember so explicitly it's like a part of development.

D (46:28)

They're like, you stole.

F (46:28)

I'm high right now. I ain't never stole nothing.

D (46:31)

They do not play in it.

F (46:33)

I haven't stolen anything.

B (46:34)

You haven't stolen anything?

F (46:37)

No. I mean, unfortunately, I find that hard to believe. I think about it all the time now. Like when I see how high season this is in the grocery store and self checkout. But I haven't stolen. No, not yet.

D (46:50)

Maybe that episode of the show. But I feel like so many young girls, not me, but so many young girls go through stealing phases. And like, that is true. I remember being in middle school and like, people were stealing from, like, Forever 21 Urban Outfitters. And I was like, I remember my

E (47:05)

freshman year in college. And mind you, I stole that one time when I was young, but I wasn't like a thief. My freshman year in college, I had this white friend. We would go to Brandy Melville. And I remember the first time we went to Brandy Melville. We're on the train back and she's pulling stuff out of her jacket. I was like, girl, you stole that?

B (47:22)

She goes, yeah.

E (47:23)

Big corporation starts being on her.

D (47:25)

Like, big corporations.

E (47:27)

I'm like, girl, I'm not stealing with you.

B (47:30)

We are different.

E (47:31)

But she was stealing. Steal all the time.

C (47:33)

I had a friend like that, too.

E (47:35)

Yeah.

B (47:36)

That does feel like maybe it could be a potential episode. Because, I mean, just like a lot of things, right? Like kleptomania, which is the obsession with stealing isn't, of course, about, like, not being able to afford the thing. Right. It is mostly about, can I get. Exactly. Can I get away with this? Yeah. So that may be an interesting, interesting conversation. But I'm curious because all of you did react, it feels like so positively to the film. How do you think your reaction to the number you gave the film would have been different if, like, Sydney Sweeney was the lead actress versus Zendaya? Like, if this were not an interracial cast, if it were just an all white cast, do you feel like you would have liked it as much?

D (48:19)

It wouldn't have been as fun. It wouldn't have. That's like the number one thing. Because part of film is, like, you project your own fantasies and understandings on it. And I think with like an all

F (48:31)

white, they would have had to give a little, like a drug addiction or something. Like, it wouldn't have made sense by itself.

D (48:38)

Yeah. Well, I also think so many shows, like, when I think about, like, big little lies and even like this Imperfect women that's on Apple are like Obsessed with the tragic white woman. We're like. We're.

C (48:54)

We're.

D (48:54)

We're sad, too. And so I.

B (48:56)

Tragic, too.

D (48:57)

Yeah. And I'm, like, feeling violent, even. That's like, my. I'm not interested in that anymore. I think it's been done so many times on television or in film, so I thought this was even. Robert Pattinson was in a movie last year called Die My Love, about, like, a tragic white woman in, like, early in their marriage. So I think we've seen that so many times. So I do think the interracial aspect livened it up.

C (49:22)

Yeah. And I think also the fact that Zendaya was the black woman who had planned the school shooting, I think that, like, added a layer of depth to it that made it a little bit different than something that we might expect

F (49:36)

forever. 21. Stingy.

E (49:37)

I don't want to say. Say Ms. Sweeney.

C (49:38)

No. Yeah.

B (49:40)

I mean, she's just who I thought of. I can't think of any other, like, popular white actress right now. So that's. That's just who I said.

E (49:46)

Yeah. Should we move on to?

B (49:49)

Yeah. So switching gears to you, me, in Tuscany. So we will also rate this one. So what was your rating for this film, Bria?

D (49:59)

Mine?

E (50:00)

I would say like, a six and a half, seven.

C (50:05)

I think that I go into movies, unfortunately, I'm just, like, a very realist person, and some of the things. And it just didn't feel realistic. And I know it wasn't supposed to, so I had to, like, like, separate that, but that would be my rating.

A (50:17)

Okay.

B (50:18)

What about you, Elise?

D (50:20)

I'm gonna have to give it a five and a half six. But it was an entertaining watch. Like, it was fun. I was laughing. There were definitely, like, some unrealistic parts that took me out of it. And I do think the movie felt dated. Like, not every movie has to be of the A24 sensibility, but it did feel like, oh, this may have been written. And I. I love Will Packer, but even his sensibilities are very much like, 2009 through, like, 2016. And so I think that was very obvious in the movie, and I think that took me out of it.

A (50:56)

Okay, what about you, Indi?

E (50:58)

I'm gonna give it a six. And that pains me because I do love Halle Bailey. I love the Bailey sisters. And so I was happy to see her on screen. But I agree, as soon as the movie came on, I was like, oh, this is giving me early 2000. Even the way it looks, it's like, I don't want to be as so harsh to say, like, it didn't look stylistic, but it's like light the actor and make the camera clear. Like, it wasn't like giving me, like any mood. It's just like a very on the nose. It was just a very on the nose movie. And, like, what you see is what you get. And you could probably predict half of it, but it was like, I don't regret watching it.

F (51:36)

I'm gonna give it a six as well. It feels like if Attica Locke and Nancy Myers came together in the most, like, filtered down way. But I thought it was really fun, like a fun watch. And I think that I will talk about it more. It's certainly a portrayal of a black woman in romance that we haven't seen before, which is what takes it up for me.

B (51:55)

I also gave it a six. And I also, like, you in Day was thrown by something about, like, the lighting and like, it felt hyper real.

D (52:04)

Felt like YouTube, like a.

B (52:05)

No, it felt like a 3D almost. And I was like, is this just my screen? Like, why does it feel so bright?

E (52:12)

Yeah.

B (52:12)

And so I was very confused by that. I also thought it was just fun though, right. And so I think I went into it thinking, like, oh, this will just be like a fun rom com. And it was that. But to your point, Elise, it also did make me think of, like, some of the black rom coms we had in like the 90s, early 2000s, like a half Plenty or not Love Jones, because I feel like that is a separate genre of at least I don't think you love Love Jones. We haven't had that conversation on the podcast, but it didn't feel like that because Love Jones felt a little like, grittier and moodier to me. And to your point, in Day, this did not. But it felt like something I would have seen in like the 90s or 2000 in like, that collection of rom coms that you could see on Lifetime or whatever. And you're like, oh, this was just a fun movie. So I know before all of us saw the film, we talked about, like, okay, how do we feel about this? The leads? I think I've seen a lot of conversation around, like, the chemistry between the leads. What were your thoughts after watching the film in terms of chemistry between Reggae, reggae, reggae,

D (53:17)

reggae.

E (53:18)

Yes, they had more chemistry than I anticipated. It did seem a little slow to connect for me. But for what it's worth, if I'm like ignoring everything, all of the things that don't feel real about the movie, I thought they were cute. Ish. I thought they were cute. They're working with the script that they have and so I didn't think. I wasn't like not seeing it for them in the movie. I was like, okay, it's cute. You know, they had like a little meet cute, A little dissonance in their meet cute.

A (53:47)

Sure.

E (53:48)

And at the end the I was like, okay, they're cute together.

A (53:54)

More from our conversation after the break. If you've got kids between the ages of 2 and 8, you know that not all apps are created equal. If you want something that actually gets them excited and thinking, then check out lingokids. It's an absolute blast. It's a world of interactive games, music they'll want to sing along to, and stories that spark their imagination. It's high energy, it's vibrant, and it keeps them actively playing rather than just zoning out. Whether it's a rainy afternoon or a weekend morning, it's the fun they're looking for and the quality you want. Lingokids Everything kids love. See why millions of families love it? Download the LingoKids app on your phone or tablet now for free. Today I wanted to share some thoughts about investing in your future while showing up for your present needs. Needs Most of us play a lot of roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. But many of us also think about another role that could take our lives to where we want it to. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your busy life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, four and eight week courses, monthly class starts, and year round enrollment. NU is an accredited non profit university that makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults with over 150 different degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from. They have a program that fits your career goals too. Learn more today at nu.edu these days most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode Island. All that. Plan your trip today at visitroadisland.com that's visitroadisland.com tired of long wash days and heat damaged hair? I hear you. That's why you should know about Revair. Revair is a game changing hair dryer that uses reverse airflow to dry, stretch and smooth in one step so you can spend less time styling your hair and more time living your life. Unlike traditional blow dryers, Revair uses gentle suction and controlled heat to protect your strands while still locking in moisture and shine. Whether you're rocking coils, kinks, twists, braids, locs or extensions, Revair works with your texture, not against it. That means you can get that salon quality finish right at home with less tugging, less breakage and way less time prepping for your night out. Especially during the winter months when you're looking for that extra boost of self care. Revair will help you feel confident and sexy in your hair. Visit myrevair.com today and use promo code therapy50 for $50 off your device or total package. Don't wait. Your crown deserves it. That's my revere.com.

B (57:15)

Did anybody feel one way about their chemistry and your mind was changed after the film?

D (57:20)

Okay, so at, yeah, the age gap for sure. Like yeah, he appears younger on screen, which is good. But in the press tour of it all, that kind of made me nervous. Also the messy person in me. The girls on Reddit are like, they don't like even like each other in real life. And I'm like, no, I don't know that that is how I went into the film, being on Reddit and being indoctrinated.

C (57:46)

I did hear that too.

D (57:47)

So then I watched the film and I was like, actually I thought they had really good chemistry. I think like you said in day it was kind of like slow to burn, but not in a like a slow burn way. Slow to connect. Which I think part of it is like the point of the film given that like this is who she's allegedly engaged, his cousin brother.

F (58:08)

Are we sure it's not black?

D (58:11)

I think I was like, I was like, I think I need one or two more beats of like, why do you guys like each other? I think that's what was meant for

E (58:20)

me at the end when they're in the vineyard and it's raining and she's like, I want to give us a chance. I'm like, what you think? Language like give us a chance. It just feels early. Like I understand over the course of what, five, six days, but I'm like, give us a chance. This is like the first real life conversation y' all are having about a non platonic relationship and give us a chance. Just felt like A jump up. I understand. We got to tie the. Tie the loose ends. So just Italy, like the. Give us a few more beats. But it was crazy because I do feel like they were heavy handed with like the energy between them at the beginning. I'm like, okay, we get it. Y' all like each other. And then it was. Went from that.

D (58:57)

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I was like, yeah. Also, like, this movie really stretched my, like, tolerance of cringe. Because of cringe. Like, there were times in the theater I was like, whoa. Like the second hand embarrassment is. Is really weighing on me right now. I think typically I can not go to the bathroom, but I think. Pardon me. Going to the bathroom during the film, like, I cannot.

B (59:23)

What felt particularly cringy to you?

F (59:26)

The singing.

E (59:28)

There are some jokes that I. People would laugh. And I wasn't laughing, not because I was trying to stay tight lipped, but I was like, oh, dang. Maybe I'm just like, I don't know, like angry.

D (59:38)

I'm real strict over here.

C (59:40)

My theater was like, mostly white women. They were having a time in there.

D (59:49)

I mean, the singing, like the singing of Neo. I was like, oh, my God, Mario.

E (59:54)

Mario. Yeah.

D (59:57)

Oh, my. The taxi driver. The sister in law.

E (60:01)

Oh, yeah. I'll say the sister in law. I love when a supporting character gives it their all. Okay. If she understands her character, I gotta give it to her.

D (60:11)

The supporting characters made the film. Yeah, they definitely did make the film. Without them, it would have been controversial.

B (60:23)

Yeah.

F (60:24)

I do agree that the supporting characters made the film. There's something in my just like, heart of hearts, militant black soul that goes to orphans. Having to like, find love through the devices of white people feel so spiritually wrong. It's like, is there a commentary about breaking generational curses? I don't know, it just. I didn't like that part of it, but I like the feel.

B (60:49)

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, that is the part that I think I appreciated probably the most was like the grief conversations. And I feel like I would have liked to see more of that. To your point, Elise. Right. Like, it feels like that was probably a large part of the foundation of what made them so attractive to each other. But I don't feel like we got a ton of that. Not that we needed half the film, but. But I would have liked to see more of that. And I thought it was an interesting commentary on different responses to grief. Right. He kind of threw himself into work and like went all in there and like, she ran away from it because it Felt too painful, which I think is true to life. So I, I could have stand to see a little bit more of how they connected around their grief.

E (61:26)

If we wanted to talk about like connective tissue between this is, I'm about to reach right now, connective tissue between the drama and Yumi and Tuscany. I think it's in the field of black female representation, like underrepresentation of a black woman in an area. And for this movie I think it's the underrepresentation of the black female hobosexual. Because for the first 30 minutes I was like, oh, this is a hobosexual. She's just finding the next man, the next person whose hotel room she can stay in. She's flying across the world to stay in a house that she knows she had no business being in. And I was just like, you know, you don't see black women on screen doing this type of foolishness that often. So I mean, I appreciated the difference in there.

F (62:15)

I mean, I think to your point, it's like the connective tissue for me was that and why I think both kind of are subversive rom coms. We don't get to see black women on screen, not have it together. Like usually when you see a black woman in a rom com, she is uber successful. And if she's not uber successful, she's a matriarch. And if she's not a matriarch, she's something that's like respectable and dignified. And it's almost like, well, why doesn't she have love? And then the whole plot of the movie has to humble this almost perfect person in order to justify them having like, love. And I thought that it was great that in both of these films that they're like dealing with something and don't really have their together and they get to find love anyway.

B (62:58)

Which I think brings me to my next question. Is there has been so much conversation around this film needing to be successful for other people's films to be made. And like, do you think that there is room for there to be just these mediocre black women rom coms are led by a black woman cast? Or does it always need to strive for like black excellence? Like, where are we in the stage of what our films can look like at the this point?

E (63:26)

I think there fully needs to be room for like black mediocrity. And like, I don't think the phrase black mediocrity is derogatory because as long as we have multiples, like there's going to be a Spectrum and there is white mediocrity, north, south, east and west. So it's just like it's only, it's really only natural. Like everyone's not going to hit the mark for everyone. And I think it's realistic to be like, okay, this is just a regular black movie and some regular movies with black people or by black people. And sometimes you just want like the regular version. Like, and not everything needs to be high art. Like it's like an entertaining little girls night fun movie. And sometimes I think that's all things need to be.

D (64:08)

I'm gonna have to agree. I also think what I appreciate about the film, like obviously like race was a factor, but something I haven't loved is let's tie in. I'm gonna be shading a movie, but like let's tie in the story about gentrification with black love. And I'm like, this feels really heavy.

B (64:26)

Like what was the gentrification angle?

D (64:29)

No, I'm saying what's this? We love Brooklyn. That.

B (64:32)

Yeah. Oh, got it, got it. Okay.

D (64:35)

I didn't like that movie. It just felt too heavy handed with some of the themes. And I do think that is what puts pressure on black films to be like excellent. It's because yes, it is a movie about romance and love, but it's also a vehicle to do this other type of storytelling that is about like social issues. And I think that's where people start to expect a lot of it. And it's not a bad thing and it can be done really well. But I think we've had so much of that type of film that something like this we're like, wasn't that good? I'm like, guys, it's for shits and giggles. Like we literally

E (65:13)

something.

B (65:13)

What, what is the expectation of a rom com other than like I literally feeling good. Right? Like that. That is. Yeah, like that is the expectation.

D (65:23)

It's unfortunate though because I feel like

C (65:24)

the expectation beyond us is like it needs to make back the money and more.

D (65:29)

Yeah. And it's just kind of like even

C (65:32)

looking at like some of the top like black TV shows and films, it's going to target a particular audience, it's going to overserve them, but it might not serve the other audiences and then from there they're not making the money. And now it's like not a success. Which is. Is unfortunate and like not fair because to induce point, there is white mediocrity everywhere, especially in the TV and film industry. So it's interesting how we're like held to this different standard. But we knew this.

E (65:56)

Yeah. I thought about the movie when I was thinking about this and like black mediocrity.

B (66:00)

Whatever.

E (66:01)

I thought about that movie. Speaking of Sydney Sweeney with Sydney Sweeney and Glenn. What's his name?

D (66:08)

Any. Anyone but you. Any.

E (66:10)

Yes, yes.

D (66:11)

Anyone but you and I. Mediocre.

E (66:14)

Mediocre. Mediocre.

D (66:16)

And.

E (66:16)

But you're like, yeah, literally the same. And I'm like, okay, this movie is silly, but I think that movie made

B (66:22)

a lot of money.

E (66:23)

Like, people loved that movie and it's like a cheeky little movie. And so. Yeah, I agree. I think like, we just deserve the same room to just do a cheeky little movie. There's no message. It's not that deep because like, everything cannot be that deep. It's. It. It's exhausting.

B (66:40)

Yeah. And I wonder. I mean, I'm sure this is the case, but I haven't seen anything to like echo. This is. When like white audiences see Halle and Ray J, do they automatically assume this is not for me, right? Like that this is a black romcom as opposed to like, oh, this just a romcom with like attractive people. Which is what romcoms typically are. Right. And so I think that is already like a large part of the audience that we are not going to get. Right. Like the dollars are not going to come from them. Which then puts all this pressure, I think on the black community. Like, oh, we gotta go make sure that this film is successful because we want to continue to see these projects being made. So we talked briefly a little earlier about Love Jones and so I want to wrap up now that this has to be anybody's answer. But when you think about like your foundational rom coms and like this genre for you, what film has to be on this list for you?

D (67:33)

Well, obviously Love Jones. It's so good. I feel like that movie, like very messy relationship. But the tone and sensibilities and like, oh, men who read that was like my North Star. So definitely also like throwing it way back. Pretty Woman, like again, a movie that the premise is very questionable, like she is a hooker, but it is able to like explore way further than that and has like really good social commentary without being very heavy handed and is hilarious. And then like without Pretty Women, you don't have like the Princess Diaries. If you've seen the movie, there's like characters in like multiple characters in Pretty Women are in the Princess Diaries and they kind of play off each other. So those are really great. And I have one more, but someone

E (68:27)

else goes, I Think in terms of black rom coms. I'm a big fan of the Last Holiday with Queen Latifah. I love that movie. Speaking of Halle, Halle plays Halle and Chloe play, like, her nieces or something. There's like, a quick cut to them in that movie. Fun fact, but, yes, I'm a big fan of the Last Holiday. And honestly, when I was watching this movie, I. It reminded me of the Last Holiday because, you know, she goes across the world, she's just chilling, and then she ends up meeting a guy, and the blah, blah, blah, they fall in love. So I also. This may be more controversial because I know people really hated this movie when it came out. I. One of my comfort black rom coms. Or. Yeah, kind of. Is the photograph not. It's some like. I know, I know, I know, I know.

B (69:14)

I love the photo. I know.

D (69:16)

I thought it was in the theater, y'.

C (69:19)

All.

E (69:19)

I turn up when I'm like, like, I will turn on that movie. I also love the score.

D (69:24)

Robert Glassberg, but fantastic.

E (69:27)

The score is great, but I really do enjoy the photograph and all of its flaws. I just take it as it is. If we're just speaking rom coms in general, 500 days of summer with Zooey Deschanel and Joseph Gordon Levitt. Love that movie. Also When Harry Met Sally because I love a Friends to Lovers, like, plot line.

A (69:45)

Huge.

C (69:45)

So those are good ones. Also love Jones on my end. I feel like growing up, obviously, I've changed and developed and we've grown. I would have told you it was love and basketball when I was growing

D (69:57)

up because I feel like everything in that film is not good right now. No, it's not great. I'm like, growing up, it was like,

C (70:03)

oh, my gosh, so cute. And now as an adult, I'm like,

B (70:05)

oh, this is horror.

D (70:06)

This is not fun. My night.

C (70:09)

But maybe also controversial. But one of my favorite rom coms is to come play that game. I actually love that movie.

D (70:16)

I love that movie. I also want to shout out about last night and jumping the. Oh, that, like, stretch of black rom coms. Yeah, even. What's the film with, like, Kevin Hart and Taraji P. Hempson. Like, Say what you want. That is a good movie.

E (70:39)

We didn't need a second one. My mom was like, you need to read Steve Harvey's Act Like a Lady. And even, like, at a young age, I was like, okay, bye. I'm not reading that. And I just. Something in me was just like, I'm not reading that book. I never read it. But she was. She's like, you really need to read that book. I'm like, girl, I'm not reading that.

D (70:58)

But what's also so interesting is like the movie is a promotion of the book, but it's also like telling you, like, the book does not work.

E (71:07)

Right. It's bs. Literal bs.

D (71:11)

Several arguments against them.

C (71:14)

Literally.

B (71:16)

I think for me, in addition to Love Jones being on the list, the best man is also on that list.

E (71:21)

Yes.

B (71:21)

I was gonna say that.

C (71:22)

I forgot.

B (71:23)

Yeah, there's a lot of mess there. But it feels like it comes together in the end and then like the whole trio of films.

E (71:29)

Right.

B (71:29)

I think make for just great rom com energy. So that would be my answer.

E (71:34)

Is the Wood or the Wood is a rom com.

B (71:36)

Right? Is it.

E (71:37)

It's the. Or it's more like brotherhood.

B (71:39)

I don't remember what happened in the wood. I remember them playing basketball in the park, but I don't.

D (71:43)

I mean, if you want to say, like, friendship is romantic, we can follow.

E (71:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like twinkles of. Of romance in there, of course. But yeah, yeah.

B (71:56)

Well, lots of fun with this conversation as always. Thank you all so much for joining me again. Please share with us where people can find you on social. We'll start with you, Bria.

C (72:06)

So I am as lived by Bria everywhere. I also have a pop culture page where I go into more of this at what Bria said too.

A (72:14)

So perfect.

B (72:15)

Elise.

D (72:17)

I am on Instagram and TikTok.

E (72:19)

It's my first and last name.

A (72:20)

Elise, Ellis and Indy.

E (72:24)

I'm on Instagram @indela soul nde y e l A S O U L And I'm also on TikTok. It's just in day with a lot of ease. It might be five, it might be six. Try and find me I guess just

A (72:39)

look for the link.

B (72:40)

Well, thank y' all so much for joining me again.

C (72:42)

Thank you.

D (72:43)

Bye.

C (72:43)

Thank you.

A (72:47)

I always love when I get to chat with the producers.

B (72:49)

I hope you enjoyed our conversation to

A (72:52)

learn more about their work and to weigh in on your thoughts about the drama. And you me in Tuscany. Be sure to visit the show notes at therapy for black girls.com session 461. Or join us over in our patreon. You can join us at community.therapy for

B (73:06)

black girls dot com.

A (73:08)

Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast? Drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our Therapist Directory at therapy for black girls.com directory this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Radford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. You know that moment when your kid

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