Session 468: The Albums That Raised Us

Summary

THERAPY FOR BLACK GIRLS
Session 468: The Albums That Raised Us
Podcast Date: June 17, 2026
Host: Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, Ph.D.
Guests: Shanti Das (music exec, Silence the Shame founder), Eva Ani (music/culture journalist)

---

Episode Overview

In honor of Black Music Month, Dr. Joy leads an insightful discussion with industry veteran Shanti Das and acclaimed journalist Eva Ani exploring how Black music—and especially pivotal albums—shaped lives, culture, and the music industry between 2006 and 2016. The episode journeys through landmark albums, changing industry structures, and the evolving cultural significance of Black women artists, before examining the globalization of Black music and predictions for the genre’s future.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Personal Journeys in Music

• Shanti Das (06:38–07:51, 10:14–11:30):

  • In 2006, Shanti was EVP of Marketing at Universal Motown, creating pivotal live showcases like R&B Live that aided artists like Janelle Monae and Beyoncé.
  • By 2016, she had begun shifting to mental health advocacy with Silence the Shame but still produced Atlanta’s ATL Live on the Park, supporting both established and emerging artists.
  • “I feel like [music is] in my DNA, especially...back home in the state of Atlanta, where I grew up helping to kind of shape the culture of hip hop” (11:10).

• Eva Ani (07:54–09:14, 09:21–10:10):

  • As a teen in 2006, music and pop culture were formative, offering connection and identity to her as a New York City-raised child of Nigerian immigrants.
  • By 2016, she was immersed in culture/music journalism, bringing an academic and cultural analysis lens to the industry during a period of dramatic digital change.

---

Defining Albums: 2006 and 2016

Albums from 2006

• Key Titles: J Dilla’s Donuts, Corinne Bailey Rae, Ne-Yo, Pharrell’s In My Mind, Cassie, Beyoncé’s B’Day, Lupe Fiasco.
• Eva Ani (12:03–13:43, 13:49–14:59):
  • In My Mind by Pharrell: “A new kind of blueprint for what a musician...a creative is. Everyone uses the term ‘creative’ now, but at that time, we viewed Pharrell as a trailblazer” (12:24).
  • B’Day by Beyoncé: Her favorite album; marked the rise of a superstar and transformative performer: “There was no artist at that time...that I was seeing sort of grow into this superstar in real time” (13:49).
• Shanti Das (15:05–17:48):
  • Recounts working with Beyoncé from her pre-Destiny’s Child days.
  • Notes how B’Day’s blend of music and visuals established Beyoncé as “the blueprint for a female solo artist...everybody wanted to be Beyoncé at that point” (16:50).

Albums from 2016

• Key Titles: Solange’s A Seat at the Table, Rihanna’s Anti, Kanye West’s The Life of Pablo, Beyoncé’s Lemonade, Frank Ocean’s Blonde, Anderson .Paak’s Malibu, Drake’s Views.
• Eva Ani (18:21–21:40):
  • 2016 symbolized the “last era of monoculture...when we still consumed things in community” (19:20).
  • Lemonade “changed the structure of album releases...set a precedent for a unique type of rollout. Not everyone can pull off that kind of visual album” (20:03).
• Shanti Das (21:40–23:09):
  • Lemonade was “a celebration of Black culture”—from HBCUs to Southern roots. “She gave us permission to talk about the good and the bad...to be okay with not being okay” (21:54).

---

The Streaming Revolution & Shifting Consumption

Discovery and Creation

• Eva Ani (23:28–27:34):
  • Streaming democratized access and discovery but led to oversaturation and “a wide gap in quality.”
  • “We’ve seen changes in how music is produced, created, and consumed...songs now are shorter and tailored for viral moments on TikTok” (24:54).
  • Drake’s Views was “one of the defining architects of streaming era consumption” (26:21), moving albums towards a playlist model.

Marketing & Industry Impact

• Shanti Das (31:33–34:58):
  • “Streaming had somewhat of a negative effect...the budgets aren’t what they used to be...the money isn’t there” (31:48).
  • Artist development is diminished; artists may go viral “but they’re not prepared. There’s no interview coaching...performance coaching...the math isn’t mathing for artists and songwriters and producers” (32:55).
• Eva Ani (35:24–40:10):
  • Journalism moved from print → digital → creator economy. “You don’t need to be trained in journalism or cultural criticism to be ‘media’ now” (36:29).
  • This shift impacts how music and artists are documented and critiqued, with major implications for culture memory and analysis.

---

Black Women in Music: Vulnerability & Double Standards

Changing Reception

• Shanti Das (40:39–42:12):
  • Women—especially Black women—are now more accepted and celebrated, able to headline arena tours and build micro-communities via social media (41:05).
• Eva Ani (42:12–44:59):
  • “Vulnerability is more respected, almost expected now” from Black women artists, especially after albums like Lemonade, A Seat at the Table, and Anti (42:52).
  • A greater “anticipation for transparency,” but also hypercritical reactions if artists don’t meet new standards.

The “Tightrope”

• Dr. Joy (46:25–47:00):
  • “It does feel like a bit of a double-edged sword...while vulnerability is relatable, audiences don’t always treat creators with care.”
• Eva Ani (47:00–48:27):
  • “The more open artists are, the more the facade of superstardom crumbles...but then we complain we need superstars. Not sure if consumers know what they want, or maybe they want everything” (47:22).
• Shanti Das (48:27–50:39):
  • Reminisces about the mystique of icons like Prince or Michael Jackson. Today, “fans kind of want it all...so unfair how we treat artists now...we love them, but we hate them at the same time” (49:08).

---

Rihanna: Blueprint of the Modern Global Superstar

• Eva Ani (54:47–58:41):
  • “I don’t think we’ll ever see another Rihanna...she is the archetype for this new kind of superstar—globally recognized but relatable and accessible, yet aspirational” (54:56).
  • Anti (2016) was the career culmination—genre-defying, industry-shifting, and possibly “an excellent last album” if she releases no more music.
  • “She is an artist that encapsulated 2006, 2016, and 2026...not a lot of artists can fall into that category” (57:47).

---

The Next Era: Nostalgia, Touring & Globalization

• Shanti Das (58:55–62:23):
  • AI and technology will challenge how artists are built and maintained.
  • “It’s getting harder and harder to build traditional superstars...but I do think what still will be a key factor moving forward is live touring—that’s what keeps legacy and builds superstars” (60:44).
• Eva Ani (62:23–65:05):
  • Anticipates the center of Black music innovation shifting from the US: “Black music innovation is no longer centralized in the US...those centers are Lagos, Johannesburg, Kingston...the continent hosts the world’s largest demographic of young people” (63:16).
  • “Superstars might not look the same...they might not be in America. There’s going to be a heightened awareness that the first and last frontier is Africa” (64:08).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Pharrell was a new kind of blueprint for what a musician and I think sort of the early iteration of what a creative is. Everyone uses the term creative now.” — Eva Ani (12:24)
• “Beyoncé definitely, out of this generation, is one of the artists that I feel like patterned herself behind the greats but was able to pull it off.” — Shanti Das (16:30)
• “2016 was the last era of monoculture...and Lemonade was a quintessential marker of that shift.” — Eva Ani (19:20, 20:49)
• “She gave us, as black women, permission to be okay with not being okay and showed us how you can go through the struggles but still go back and get the support that you need.” — Shanti Das (21:54)
• “Streaming has lowered the barrier for artists, but now every song is engineered for TikTok...there’s a wide gap in quality.” — Eva Ani (24:54)
• “The more access we get to artists, the more the facade of superstardom crumbles...but we also say we need new superstars. Fans want everything.” — Eva Ani (47:22)
• “I don’t think we’ll ever see another Rihanna...she is the archetype for this new kind of superstar.” — Eva Ani (54:56)
• “The future of superstars might not look the same as what we’ve seen—because they might not be in America.” — Eva Ani (64:08)

---

Timeline of Important Segments

| Time | Segment & Topic | |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 06:23 | Guest introductions & personal journeys | | 11:47 | Standout albums of 2006 and their impact | | 17:48 | Landmark albums from 2016 | | 23:28 | How streaming transformed music creation & discovery | | 31:15 | Marketing: old vs new industry expectations | | 40:10 | Black women’s evolving place in music | | 46:25 | Vulnerability, transparency & double standards | | 54:13 | Deep dive on Rihanna’s arc from “A Girl Like Me” to “Anti”| | 58:41 | What the future holds: AI, superstars & nostalgia | | 62:23 | Black music’s globalization and the rise of Africa | | 65:05 | Closing reflections, shoutouts, where to find guests |

---

Conclusion

Dr. Joy, Shanti Das and Eva Ani weave a rich tapestry tracing the threads between the albums, industry shifts, and societal changes that shaped a generation. The episode celebrates Black women’s artistry and visibility, acknowledges the pressures of modern pop stardom, and looks ahead to a future where Black music’s center of gravity may continue shifting worldwide.

Find the full show notes and guest information at therapyforblackgirls.com/session468.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our [e-mail] while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining me for session 468 of the

[B]

therapy for Black Girls Podcast.

[A]

We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.

[C]

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human ladies.

[A]

If you're in that phase where your body's just doing new things, sleep's weird, energy's weird, cravings also weird, you're not alone. It's totally normal. Menopause and perimenopause just means your body needs a little support. And sprouts makes that support easier so you can start feeling more like you. Tons of fresh organic produce for fiber, sprouts, protein and creatine to keep your muscles and bones strong and your energy up, and supplements that can help you manage mood shifts. So whether it's perimenopause, menopause, or any other health journey, it's easier at Sprouts Farmer's Market Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life, with a severe autoimmune condition, they go beyond MG and cidp. As host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and eye gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Stories life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Trump administration and its backers in Congress are messing around with their health care. They already passed a law defunding Planned Parenthood that blocks Medicaid patients from getting life saving care like cancer screenings, wellness exams, birth control, STI treatment, and more. And now these lawmakers want to shut down health centers by defunding Planned Parenthood permanently. Our communities deserve better. To learn how you can get involved, Text update to 22422 Every parent should know the Car Ride Soundtrack Are we there yet? How much longer? I'm bored. If you're taking an extensive car ride anywhere and you've downloaded the lingokids app. Prior to leaving the house, you may experience something strange. You may experience silence from the backseat. Your kid may go an entire car ride without asking once if they were there yet. And by chance of a miracle, they may even ask if you could drive longer. That's the Magic in Lingokids. Over 4000 interactive games, songs and shows, including their favorite Disney characters that kids get completely hooked on. It turns the longest drives into the easiest ones, and honestly, you won't understand why you didn't download it sooner. LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids and it's free to Download or go. Plus with a LingoKids subscription and unlock even more content your kids won't be

[B]

able to get enough of.

[A]

You can save up to 60% on the yearly plan. Search LingoKids in the App Store or Google Play LingoKids everything kids love Today I wanted to share some thoughts about investing in your future while showing up for your present needs.

[B]

Most of us play a lot of

[A]

roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. But many of us also think about another role that could take our life to where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your busy life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women with flexible online formats, four and eight week courses, monthly class starts, and year round enrollment. NU is an accredited nonprofit university that makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. With over 150 different degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from. They have a program that fits your career goals too. Learn more today at nu. Edu June is Black Music Month and we couldn't let it go by without doing a little reminiscing. So take yourself back to 2006 for a second B day had just dropped.

[B]

Pharrell was showing us what a creative

[A]

looked like before we had a word for it. And somewhere in New York, one of today's guests was a teenager watching the Beyonce experience on YouTube over and over studying a superstar being born in real time. Now jump to 2016 lemonade anti a seat at the table. The last stretch of time when it felt like we were all listening to the same albums at the same moment together. To help me make sense of those 20 years and where Black music goes from here, I'm joined by two women who watched it all happen from the inside. Shanti Das spent more than 25 years as a marketing executive at labels like LaFace and Universal Motown before founding the mental health nonprofit Silence the Shame and Eva. Ani is an award winning journalist who has covered music and culture everywhere from the New York Times to OK Player. We get into what streaming did to the album, why vulnerability became part of the job for black women artists, how Rihanna rewrote what a superstar could be, and why the next era of black music might be unfolding in Lagos as much as Atlanta. Press play and let's dive in.

[B]

Thank you both so much for joining me. I'm so excited to get into this conversation with both of you. So when you think about 2006 versus 2016, where were you personally in your relationship to music? We'll start with you, Shanti.

[C]

In 2006, I was at Universal Motown. I was executive vice president of marketing and artist development working on Distil via Rome. And I was living in New York City at the time.

[B]

Okay, and how would you describe your relationship to music at that time?

[C]

Oh, gosh. I was still in the thick of it. I would like to think one of the first few African American women met had achieved the executive vice president title from a marketing perspective, of course. It was the black music side of Universal Motown that I was working on. And also I was in the process of setting up a live showcase in New York City that ended up being like one of the hottest showcases in Manhattan for like three years. I had two partners. It was called R and B Live. We did it at a venue called Spotlight Live right in the middle of Times Square. We had everybody from Janelle Monae before she blew up, Beyonce, Jay Z used to come. All of the industry had Stephen Hill from BET like it was the place to be. And so we had a lot of artists on the stage at that time. And so felt like from a live music perspective too, I was really helping to push the culture forward from a live music perspective. So, yeah, it was fun times.

[B]

Okay, and what about for you, Eva?

[D]

In 2006, I was in high school. I just started high school. I was finishing up middle school. I just started high school. But I was obviously of the youth demographic. So pop culture music was our entire lives. It felt like at that time because the only thing we had to focus on was school. So the only things we paid attention to were music and pop culture and school. So that's where I was that year. A lot of pivotal music came out during those coming of age years for me, and that was a time where I was getting A sense of the world around me, because I was born and raised in New York City, come from an immigrant background. My family is from Nigeria, but I grew up in. In New York City. So obviously my connection to music, and particularly hip hop, has been foundational in my time growing up in this city. And I haven't left yet. I've built my life and my career here. But at that time, I do remember it was a pivotal time for me because I was coming of age, becoming a teenager, and very invested in pop culture.

[B]

And then what about 10 years later in 2016, you were older than a young adult. How would you describe your relationship to music?

[D]

Then 10 years later, I entered the industry through journalism. And that was about. That was a few years after I had gotten my degree. I went to NYU for journalism with a dual major in Africana studies. So that social and cultural analysis lens with that history degree attached to my journalism degree is what made me pursue music and culture journalism. So at that time, I was already in the industry, but things were picking up and things were changing dramatically because the industry was changing dramatically, the music industry and the media industry. So that was also a pivotal time for me as well, and such a pivotal time in music as well.

[B]

And what about for you, Shaunti, in 2016? A lot had changed for you as well.

[C]

It did. So 2016 is actually when I started my mental health nonprofit, Silence to Shame. But I still had a relationship to music. That is when I celebrated my 25 years in the entertainment industry. We did a celebration at my showcase in Atlanta. I had an event for 10 years in Atlanta called ATL Live on the park with my partner Marlon Nichols. And it became one of the premier events for a lot of artists, both seasoned right artists that we celebrate as well as new artists performing. And it was good times. I had two short perform on stage for us for that celebration. So that was really good. I had also. I was coming off the heels of doing some marketing for a lot of, I would say, like R B artists, like a Johnny Gill. I did some work with Kelly Price. I did some work again with Vivian Green. And then I also helped out Jeezy doing some marketing. And that was kind of like right at the time, as I was starting to transition to do more full time around mental. But I still have my hand in music just because it's. I feel like it's in my DNA, especially being back home in the state of Atlanta, where I grew up, helping to kind of shape the culture of hip hop and working at a prestigious label like The Face records in the early 90s. I still kind of had my hand in a lot of different things in the music here.

[B]

So, Evie, you already mentioned that 2006 was like a groundbreaking year in terms of, like, the records that were coming out, and I want to list a few and y' all tell me your reactions to hearing this list. So in 2006, we had albums like J Dilla's Donuts, Corinne Bailey Ray, self

[A]

titled debut, Neo's In My Own Words, Pharrell's In My Mind, Cassie's self titled,

[B]

Beyonce's B Day, and Lupe Fiasco's Food and Liquor. So when you hear this, like, collection of albums mentioned together, what does it come up and bring up for you?

[D]

Wow. Two of those albums that I think were most instrumental for me as far as documenting that time personally and I think culturally were definitely Beyonce, B Day, and Pharrell, in my mind. And Pharrell was huge for young people at that time, I would say teenagers and young adults. Pharrell was a new kind of blueprint for what a musician and I think sort of the early iteration of what a creative is. Everyone use the term creative now. And at that time, we viewed Pharrell as a trailblazer and someone who was merging all of these different worlds together that we were not used to seeing being merged together. And that was hip hop, high fashion, this suburban skateboard culture, and just everything that seemed cool. So in my mind was a very instrumental album, I think, for me at that time. And then obviously Beyonce's B Day was instrumental. That, to me, is my favorite Beyonce album. But that album also helped me to see the makings of a superstar at a time where I don't think we knew we would have less and less superstars. So those two albums, I think were very formative in my music tastes and my understanding of culture being shaped in real time. Seeing it from the perspective of a teenager.

[A]

What do you think about B Day?

[B]

Kind of let you know that we were on the brink of a new superstar.

[D]

I think it was the aftermath. I think it was her tour, the Beyonce experience. I had never seen anybody perform like that. I didn't go to the tour. But this was a time where YouTube was also new and that tour was uploaded to YouTube. Sorry, Beyonce. And I watched it on YouTube. I watched it on YouTube and I kept rewatching it. And to me, there was no artist at that time that was new still as a solo artist. Obviously we had known who she was prior to, but there was no artist at that Time that I was seeing sort of grow into this superstar in real time, someone that I had known as an artist my entire life, from when she was in Destiny's child in the 90s until at that point. It was so amazing to see that. That difference from when I was a child to that point. And I think she had grown musically as an artist as well. And being able to track that at such a young age, I think made it even more apparent how paramount of an artist Beyonce is and was at that time. So I think those two albums, for me, stand out.

[B]

And what about you, Shaunti? When you hear that list, what do you feel like they were defining culturally and musically?

[C]

So I'll kind of piggyback off. First off, Beyonce. So fun fact, again, I'm the auntie in the room. I remember when Beyonce was in a group called the Dolls. This was before Destiny's Child. Like, they were probably 11 or 12 years old, and they were in the studio in Atlanta, and they were going to work with singer songwriter Daryl Simmons. And so I'm not sure how they transitioned out of that. That's why I remember meeting her. And then fast forward. I was actually at Columbia Records when Beyonce's first single came out as a solo artist, Crazy In Love. And so, again, I was there at the birth of that. I helped to kind of work Crazy In Love a little bit in New York City with some of my club friends and DJs. Even though I was doing marketing, you know, it was a group effort, Right? A group project. And so going out and getting a lot of the DJs to play it. And then fast forward to B Day. Let me just say this about Beyonce. She definitely, out of this generation, is one of the artists that I feel like patterned herself behind the greats, but was able to pull it off. I think we all artists go out hoping to achieve superstardom and really impact community and culture in a way that it's going to be something that's exciting from the next generation. Right. But Beyonce studied the greats, and when you look at this album, it had 14 songs and seven videos. To me, that's something Michael Jackson would do. And obviously we're seeing that now with the greatness of how Michael is, like, one of the most streamed artists now right after his bio came out. And so it was really special watching her. And with singles like Drunken Love and Partition, like, she was really showing y', all, like, okay, I'm not just some artist that's gonna have a couple singles and sell a couple records and stream but she was here to stay. And I loved how she used the creativity of video. And it's almost like she was taking you through a movie and a soundtrack of her life. And so she really instilled in culture and community that she was the person to pattern behind. Like everybody wanted to be Beyonce at that point. Labels are trying to figure out who is the next Beyonce and I hate when labels do that, like wanting to find the next person or this person or that person. But she really became the blueprint of a female solo artist. And I mean, it was everything. And I actually did go to the tour and just watching somebody like her with her work ethic, knowing that she was in rehearsals, right? It wasn't like she just decided to drop an album and come out and not have anything going. But like in terms of fashion and the dancers and just everything that went into this album and into the tour, it like you knew that she was going to be like the next superstar.

[B]

So let's fast forward now to 2016 because we're wanting to get a read on what was going on then as well. So in 2016 we have a seat at the table and Anti the Life

[A]

of Pablo Lemonade, Frank Ocean's Blonde and

[B]

Anderson Pack's Malibu, Drake's Views, no Names Telephone and A Tribe Called Quest.

[A]

Returning to the scene.

[B]

So when you think about that time, shanti music in 2016 with this collection of albums, what do you feel like was being defined culturally and musically from these artists? Eva, any thoughts there?

[D]

Yes, by 2016 I was in the editorial trenches, as I was saying, because that's when I really started in my career was a few years before that. But that's when I had written a few pieces for the New York Times, Women in the World, and then I had a few music pieces out. I was running this hip hop magazine based out of Brooklyn at that time. And I also was starting to work at Facebook on the trending news team at that time. So I was in the editorial trenches all around as far as cultural news, pop culture news and culture writing. And I think 2016 has become this nostalgia driven year for a lot of people my age in 2026. And I think it's because 2016 was that last era of monoculture where we still consumed things in community, where there was still significant albums and artists making an indelible mark in the music industry that we could all feel versus now audiences and new genres, new artists, new scenes are siloed in micro communities. You can have an audience of 6 million people and we Might not know who you are, but you still have an audience of 6 million people. The difference between 2016 and now was we were all still collectively listening to specific artists, specific music, and we remember where we were when these albums and these artists came to form. And you listed a few of those albums. Lemonade by Beyonce is another one of those cultural moments where not only did it sort of anchor this new era of nostalgia for people's personal attachments to that album, but it also changed the music industry. That album obviously changed the structure of album releases. It changed the structure of what we expect from artists when they're about to roll out an album. I think Beyonce set a precedent for a sort of unique type of album rollout that not everyone can pull off, and we've learned that the hard way. But I think that album was extremely instrumental in this new era of streaming, this new era of needing to be a visual auteur on top of being a musical artist. The idea of a visual album itself, that era of playlist culture proliferating in 2016 because of streaming and that peak era of social media in which we used to watch, listen to, and consume things at the same time and talk about them in real time. All of that created a perfect storm for albums of that time, including Lemonade, to be remembered in the way that they're remembered now 10 years later. And I think Beyonce's album Lemonade is a quintessential marker of that shift.

[C]

Only thing I would have to add briefly is Beyonce's Lemonade album. It was such a celebration of black culture. Everything from HBCUs, from Black identity to southern roots and culture. And I think for me, having starting to work at that time in mental health, it showed vulnerability for black women. Right. She gave us permission to talk about the good and the bad, and we didn't always see that. And particularly in the entertainment industry, we sometimes cover up right when we're dealing with things. But Beyonce kind of laid it all out there for us. But she gave us, as black women, permission to be okay with not being okay and showed us how you can go through the struggles but still go back and get the support that you need. And even within your own families. What does healing really look like within families, within communities? And they're just celebrating in the culture. I mean, just seeing Lemonade live and seeing all the nuances of the different genres of music, I think she added a little bit of soul, rock, country, hip hop. It was all mashed up into that one album, and that was really special to see, because it was already at the time setting us up for Cowboy Connor. Right. And we didn't even know it, but it just showed the dimensions of Beyonce as an artist. And it definitely had a significant cultural impact, I think, both around music, health, wellness and culture.

[B]

Eva, you mentioned how you could now have like 6 million followers and there still be people who don't really know about you. So when you think about the ways that discovery in particular has changed even from 2016 to now, what do you think about like how artists are found and like just the music industry in general.

[D]

The advent of streaming I would say has directly impacted music discovery all around. I think streaming platforms have definitely helped with music discovery primarily because it lowered the entry to barrier for artists to have their music be accessible to mass audiences with or without a label deal. So I think streaming has definitely been instrumental in music discovery. And you know, it's not all positive. There isn't an understanding that it might feel oversaturated or it might feel overwhelming with the amount of options for music and artists that we have now with all of the access we have with streaming platforms. And there is a lot of, there's a wide gap in quality, I'll say, of music across these streaming platforms. So I do think that people might feel this sense of being inundated with music, but at the root of that I think it's just access to more and having choice now that I think streaming has brought. Of course, there are so many criticisms of the proliferation of streaming and its effect on how we consume music, how music is created. Now, obviously I think we've been able to literally track how the structure of songs have changed since the proliferation of streaming has come into play. And we see shorter songs now. We also even see some granular changes with songs being produced to have these 15 second sound bites so that they can be clipped for virality across short form video platforms like TikTok and Instagram. There are songs literally being generated and created so that they can be inserted into what is conducive for a social media algorithm. So we've seen changes in how music is produced, changes in how music is created and consumed. And also I think that the positive side of the proliferation of social media is that we've seen new fan bases develop globally and it's sort of decentralized the US as the main music market. Look at what's happening in Latin America, look at what's happening across the continent, across Africa, with how new genres of black music are being centered outside of the US So streaming has just had such a paramount effect, I think, on music across the board. And with one of those albums that you mentioned that came out in 2016, I have to think about Drake Views because I think Drake became one of the defining architects of streaming era consumption because he was able to crack the system at that peak moment. With Views being such a long album, it didn't even feel like an album. That was one of the albums that set the precedent for albums sort of being playlists in themselves, which hacks the system and not needing to be playlisted if you have an album that functions as as a playlist. So I think we got a lot of music that sort of modeled itself after Views and that long playlisting structure in order to be conducive to how people look for music on streaming and how people listen TO albums from 2016 until now. And unfortunately it's not been a traditional holistic project experience. It's more so been a sort of cherry picking of songs and cherry picking of moods, and I think that a lot of albums have now been formatted to function for the benefit of streaming. But now, 10 years later, we're already seeing new changes. So I'm really curious to see what that looks like in another 10 years.

[A]

More from our conversation after the break. Ladies, if you're in that phase where your body's just doing new things, sleep's weird, energy's weird, cravings also weird, you're not alone. It's totally normal menopause, and perimenopause just means your body needs a little support, and sprouts makes that support easier so you can start feeling more like you. Tons of fresh organic produce for fiber, sprouts, protein and creatine to keep your muscles and bones strong and your energy up, and supplements that can help you manage mood shifts. So whether it's perimenopause, menopause, or any other health journey, it's easier at Sprouts Farmer's Market. Every Parent should know the Car Ride Soundtrack Are we there yet? How much longer? I'm bored. If you're taking an extensive car ride anywhere and you've downloaded the Lingokids app prior to leaving the house, you may experience something strange. You may experience silence from the backseat. Your kid may go an entire car ride without asking once if they were there yet. And by chance of a miracle, they may even ask if you could drive longer. That's the magic in lingokids, over 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, including their favorite Disney characters, that kids get completely hooked on. It turns the longest drives into the easiest ones. And honestly, you won't understand why you didn't download it sooner. Lingokids is the 1 entertainment platform for young kids, and it's free to Download or go. Plus, with a LingoKids subscription and unlock even more content your kids won't be

[B]

able to get enough of.

[A]

You can save up to 60% on the yearly plan. Search LingoKids in the app Store or Google Play Lingokids Everything kids Love Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu these days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode island all that, Plan your trip today at visit rhode island.com that's visit rhode island.com living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for Season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and cidp and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions or like Myositis and Igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[B]

Shanti, I'm really curious to hear from you in terms of the marketing side. Right, so you have seen so many different iterations of the industry. So what do you think about the changes like what would it look like to market an artist now versus what it looked like kind of as you were wrapping up your time in the industry in 2016?

[C]

Absolutely. And so, first of all, I want to honor where we're at and I want to honor the younger singers and songwriters and where they're at right now. I don't want to be the old lady or the auntie in the room complaining about how things are changing because, like, I lived through Napster and saw what that did to the industry. We were afraid of downloads. We thought we wouldn't sell any records. But eventually you would have to come and embrace it. Right. Because technology doesn't stop for anyone. And we see that now with AI and everything that's happening, that's a whole different conversation. But what I will say, and having come from working at an artist like LaFace Records, who we kind of patterned ourselves as like the Motown of the south, right. And became a global label and organization, I do feel like streaming had somewhat of a negative effect to a certain degree on how music is marketed and how label heads look at signing artists and the amount of money that they either spend or don't spend on marketing artists in this day and age. And so I feel like the budgets aren't what they used to be. There aren't a lot of marketing executives and A and R executives at the record labels now. And so for some of these artists, you could come out and record a record even with your own laptop, right. And have a hit record and it could be having millions and millions of streams, but the artist might not be ready in terms of performing, there's no interview coaching. You see artists and they go and get success. And I won't name any names, but some artists experience almost overnight success literally with social media and with streaming, but they're not prepared. And so I just want to see more of take a little bit from what we learned in the industry and couple that with the technology and the ability to go direct to consumers. Right. Because back in the day, if you wanted to, to be directly connected to an artist or entertainer, you had to write them a letter or try to go to the concert and meet them backstage. Now you can DM them and they actually might even respond to you. So in terms of going direct to consumer, all that's great. It's good in terms of fan participation and support, but there's a disconnect there in terms of real artist development and the money isn't there. Again, labels, they feel like now they don't have to do all of that now, they can get streams and they can make money. But if these artists aren't writing the music or writing the lyrics themselves or owning any of the masters, you know what? It takes a billion streams to even get a halfway decent check. It's just the math is a mathing for artists and songwriters and producers. To me, in the era of streaming now, and on top of that, I don't think the artists are being developed like they should be. Sometimes, you know, we would have a 16 week marketing grid from the time between we would talk about putting the album out until it actually hit the market on Tuesday. Since we had new music Tuesdays when albums used to come out on a Tuesday. Beyonce can do a tour and say, I'm dropping an album tonight or tomorrow and it will go out and it will sell. And that's good for those established artists. But for newer artists, you still need to rehearse, you still need to come up with a look and what is going to be your hook from a fashion perspective. And so I just feel like marketing wise, some of these artists are at a disadvantage and they aren't really able to like put their craft together the way they should before hitting the market.

[B]

So, Eva, I also want to follow up because I think during that time in particular, like 2006, 2016, we also saw, and you were kind of at the helm of a lot of this, like a lot of journalism, like a lot of artists were sitting down for interviews, see a lot of blog posts. Like it really feels like we saw a lot of stories around artists that have defined like the music archive. What do you think that looks like today? Like, do we have that same level of archive? And if not, what does it look like?

[D]

That is such a great question because I've been in journalism and media for 12 years now and I remember when I got my degree how different the industry was and how different even the study materials were, how different the circumstances were at that time. Because at that time everything had just pivoted to digital. So we were going from print to digital. And then everything shifted from the last iteration of traditional editorial in the digital format to now a creator economy where you don't necessarily need to come from having an editorial background, where you don't need to come from having a journalism degree or journalism experience or experience in the world of writing and cultural criticism in order to contribute to the media ecosystem around music and culture. So there's been two major shifts that have happened since that era where I was in the thick of it, like you mentioned in 2016 I was one of the journalists at the helm of artist interviews, overall critical analysis, essays and cultural criticism, music criticism in the form of writing and on air commentary. The first time I actually appeared on air was during the last season of 106 and Park. That was my first job out of college, was working at BET after having an internship there under Suzette Brown being a production assistant. And 106 and park was the main show that I worked on. And I ended up on an episode of 106 in park right before they canceled the series. And it was actually an episode with Barack Obama. Came on right after Barack Obama. But what I think about from that time of my career just starting versus now was 106 and park, for example, was one of the last cultural mediums that we all consumed together in order to find new music, see our favorite artists, hear our favorite music, watch our favorite videos and analyze and assess the culture from a youth perspective, from just I think an interest in music, no matter the genre. And that was one of the last relics, I think, of music and media that we had. It was 106 and Park, TRL, MTV. That was when these networks, these magazines, these editorial platforms were still king makers in the music industry. And being at the center of that, I would say 2016 through maybe 2022, I think it has just been very interesting because we are in a creator economy now where you don't have to be a journalist, you don't have to be trained in cultural criticism to be platformed, to be considered media by public figures, by celebrities, by artists, even by institutions. Now you can be recognized and awarded for creating content and not necessarily for being a journalist or a writer or an on air commentator or a cultural critic. So the shift that I have seen is from print to digital and then from digital still being traditional editorial to now a creator economy where anyone who loves music and has an opinion about music but may not necessarily be equipped to practice journalism or practice cultural criticism can now practice that and have a say and have a voice in the music industry and in the media industry. And obviously that comes with pros and cons. But I think that's been the most glaring shift right now. We've seen the shift from label backed musicians to independent artists. And now I have seen the shift from traditional media to to independent creator economy media. So it's a huge difference and it also affects how music is documented because there's a lot more flaw in the documentation and there's a lot more flaw in I think the analysis of where we are culturally as well. But I think that's. That could be a whole nother episode.

[B]

Yeah, I have so many questions and I'm like, oh, I don't have time to ask you all of that, but you bring up some excellent, excellent points. You know, when I think about, like the list that I read for both 2006 and 2016, I feel like there were very strong women voices. Like women gave us some incredibly black women in particular gave us some incredibly important music during those times. Do you feel like the way that audiences relate to black women artists now is different than it was in 2006 and 2016?

[C]

I do think that women in hip hop have seen more of an increase, I would say over the last 10 to 15 years. You have more female rappers now. I'm definitely not again the consumer and the target demo for a lot of the content that's being released. But I will say that I think women in hip hop have been accepted more. Even looking at Cardi b being able to do selling out arena tours, you hadn't always seen black female artists be able to sell out arenas. And so I'm definitely impressed with that. And I do think that the culture and the community is more open to hearing more women in hip hop. Yeah, I just think that's important to add that at least I feel like certain artists are now able to sell out arenas. And maybe that is because of social media and the direct contact with consumers and with a lot of our African American creatives and new journalistic platforms that have popped up right all around socials, again, I just think it's easier to sell records and to kind of curate your community, if you will, these micro communities that pop up amongst fan bases now. And so I'm just proud that women are able to start really reaping the benefits of having successful tours and being able to bring home that type of money with platforms like Live Nation and companies like Live Nation. But I don't think that was always the case, even in the 2000 or the 2010 decade. But I'm saying more of that now.

[D]

And I would say as far as you mentioned, the differences between how the world has been receptive to black women in music now versus then I would say that I think this came up. I think you mentioned this, that this sort of language of vulnerability is respected. More so now I would say, and almost expected too, because of, I think the example set in 2016 by Beyonce and one could even argue Rihanna with auntie. But 2016, having these powerhouse Albums by women, from Beyonce with lemonade to Solange with a seat at the table. I'm not sure if that came out in 2016 or 2017, but that era or that aftermath of 2016 and Rihanna with Anti. Those are very, very powerful albums by women that were sort of unexpected by each of those artists at that time. But I think now, because we've been conditioned to that sort of emotional storytelling, that fusion of personal narrative with fictional narrative, as far as the songwriting is concerned, those thematic arcs, these. Those emotional arcs in each of those albums, I think now we've sort of been massaged into expecting that from our artists and wanting more from our artists. So when we don't get that, I think we can be super hypercritical of artists if they're not there yet in their artistic journey. I think especially with black women, people can be hypercritical if they're just not performing to our liking or performing to an expected position that they're supposed to be at that point in their career. But I think that as far as how people have engaged black women, I do see a lot more of an anticipation for transparency and a welcoming of emotional transparency. The reactions are different. We can look at the reactions we've seen publicly to a woman like Megan Thee Stallion versus other artists who bear their emotions and bear their struggles through their music. But I do think that the public has become more used to hearing emotional storytelling through music from black women. And hopefully it becomes safer for black women to do that in the music industry and feel supported outside of their music, just being consumed.

[C]

And I think a lot of that, too, had to do with the pandemic. I think we were all given permission, if you will, to start talking more and sharing openly about emotional health and wellness and platforms like therapy for black girls, of course, leading the way, even with Silas Duchenne, Kerry Hilson first talked about her depression on one of the panels that we did with Silence of Shame and looking at a summer walker. Right. And her talking about her social anxiety. So to your point, it is definitely more accepted now. And that vulnerability is celebrated amongst black women. And even just the notion of black women, whether that's musicians or lawyers or doctors or first ladies, of always having to wear this cape and always having to be on. But there is something beautiful in vulnerability, and it's celebrated now, again, when we do, I think we play sometimes unrealistic expectations on our artists and songwriters because we might be feeling some kind of way that we want to now see that through all of their music. Right. So you want to be able to have the fun, but then you also want to have the emotional lyrics and music. But I think it is definitely something that's going to be here to stay because we're living in some really interesting times. And as we know, we look to our black women as the queens of the community and those that are going to obviously always save us and have the weight of the community and the shoulders of our community. So I think you'll continue to see those narratives being told through music, through their lyrics and through songwriting.

[B]

It does feel like a bit of a double edged sword though, and I think this is what you were getting at, Eva, that it is often expected, like this level of transparency and vulnerability. And while I think it is very relatable, I also don't feel like audience and fan bases always like, treat the creators with care after they share maybe

[A]

some very difficult things.

[B]

And so it does feel like a. A tightrope that black women artists have to walk in terms of like, okay, do I share this? Because I know lots of people are experiencing this and this is my story. But also the backlash, especially with social media being as active as it is today.

[D]

Just to reiterate both points, it is a double edged sword. But again, it's so interesting how all of these points are so interconnected, because what we're seeing from fans and even critics of music is that they want more from artists, but when they get more, that accessibility makes the facade of superstardom crumble. But then we also say we need new superstars. So the closer we get to learning about these artists in their personal lives and the more open they are with their personal lives, we sort of flip that and say that it hurts their artistry and it hurts their positioning long term, because we want these sort of mythical superstars, but then we want these down to earth, super relatable artists who also bear their soul to us and give us access to their daily lives on top of consistent music and consistent visuals and consistent touring and consistent merch. So I'm not sure if consumers know what they want in that regard, or maybe they want everything. But I can imagine if I were a woman making music right now, how difficult that would be to keep up with. No matter the generation that I'm in, if I'm a new artist or an older artist, I would imagine that is a very, very, very, very long title to walk.

[C]

So a lot of pressure there, I think, to your point. And so when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, there was more of a mystique to our artists, whether they were male or female. And I think that helped artists like Prince or Michael Jackson or even Luther. You wouldn't just be able to have that sort of access with those type of artists. And the labels actually promoted the mystique, Right. We didn't want to over saturate the artists in media or too many appearances because the mystique was what actually helped to shape the artists and who they were and build a mystery around them. And so fans wanted more, but they couldn't get it. But now to your point, fans kind of want it all. I think we have to blame social media and technology on that because it's like we want the instant gratification. We want to be there right with them through every step of the way. But then to your point, it shatters what we think of, oh my gosh, this was my superhero, but now I see they're just like me. So are they still really my superhero? And so it's almost like it's unfair pressure that's put on artists. And my heart goes out to any creative that's out there trying to figure out their lane and stay in their lane, but also be able to share, but then still keep a little bit. Right? Because they don't have to bear their entire souls. But we have put, I think, unrealistic expectations on a lot of our creatives. And Chris Brown just released a new album and of course the critics are already going in. And he posted something and I'm just kind of paraphrasing, but he was like, look, I've heard what y' all saying, you know, hopefully everybody's not gonna like the album, but hopefully y' all will eventually listen to it. I'm not worried because people always had something to say about their albums, but they came around, they end up loving it, right? He ends up having these sold out tours. And so it's so unfair how we treat artists now. I think we love them, but we hate them at the same time. And there's so many people out there putting pressure on our black male and female artists. And so we just got to give them a break. It's not easy being an artist in this day and age. And the numbers just aren't the same in terms of the dollars that's being put in to promote our artists. But our big superstars, like, we're putting so much unfair pressure on them, I think.

[A]

More from our conversation after the break, Ladies. If you're in that phase where your body is just doing new things, sleep's weird. Energy's weird. Cravings also weird. You're not alone. It's totally normal. Menopause and perimenopause just means your body needs a little support. And sprouts makes that support easier so you can start feeling more like you. Tons of fresh organic produce for fiber, sprouts, protein and creatine to keep your muscles and bones strong and your energy up. And supplements that can help you manage mood shifts. So whether it's perimenopause, menopause, or any other health journey, it's easier at Sprouts Farmer's Market.

[C]

Mom, can I have Lingokids?

[D]

Dad, Lingokids, please.

[B]

When did we become the Lingokids House?

[C]

No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs. This week it's Lingokids.

[D]

Why Lingokids?

[C]

Because it's the best thing ever.

[D]

We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

[B]

With more than 4,000 thousand interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.

[C]

So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.

[B]

Everything kids love.

[A]

Download it for free Today I wanted to share some thoughts about investing in your future while showing up for your present needs. Most of us play a lot of roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. But many of us also think about another role that could take our lives to where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where a national university comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your busy life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, four and eight week courses, monthly class starts and year round enrollment. NU is an accredited non profit university that makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults with over 150 different degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals too. Learn more today at nu.edu. these days most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode Island all that, plan your trip today at visit rhode island.com that's visit rhode island.com Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like Myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[B]

Eva, I want to go back to something that you mentioned because I feel like this would not be a great, great conversation unless we addressed Rihanna. So she released A Girl like me in 2006 and then 10 years later, to your point, we got Anti. What do you think that like Long Span and people have really critically helmed Anti and thought it was like a really defining moment in her artistry. What do you feel like that that span of time really said in terms of her relationship to stardom? And do you feel like we could see another star kind of pop off in the same ways that we feel like Rihanna did?

[D]

I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna. I will start there. I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna. I think she was directly responsible for the new kind of superstar of today and that is the artist who is globally recognized, powerhouse, critically acclaimed, highly awarded artist who is also relatable, who is also accessible in so many different ways, but who is also aspirational. And I think she is the archetype for this new kind of superstar where you can be globally recognized or have a micro community, but whatever you do, as far as your skill set, your talent, your style, your personality, it feels very accessible. And I think that labels and her label marketed around that as opposed to trying to build that inorganically. I think they marketed around her appeal, which is having the it factor and being relatable and accessible. And her transition from 2006 to 2016 is incredible because it's, I was going to say only 10 years, but that feels like such a long time now to have a 10 year run. By that time she was 28. She had already broken so many records. I can't even list every record and every accolade she received by that time. But that felt like a culminating moment for her in her career. Because she had already done everything genre wise, image wise, she'd won every award. And I think for someone like her to have had so many private moments, be public, and to have come of age from being a teenager to an adult at that time, almost 30, in the public eye, I do think Anti was a very pivotal album for her and for her fan base and for the music industry because of how it came out at that time. What was the platform that popped up? It was title. There were so many changes and innovations in the music industry at the time of Anti coming out. And I think there were so many changes in Rihanna's personal career at that time as well. So I do think she's like the last era of a certain kind of superstar, but also the first era of a new kind of superstar. And Anti solidified that. Because if I'm being honest, that is my favorite Rihanna album. I think that is her best album, but I also think it could be her last album. And if it were her last album, it would be an excellent last album because it represents, number one, a shift in the music industry, a closure in the music industry and opening in the music industry and a shift in her career. So I think it was such an instrumental album that came out at such an instrumental time, and she is an artist that encapsulated 2006, 2016 and 2026, and there's not a lot of artists that can fall into that category. So I think that I'm curious to see what happens in the next 10 years with Rihanna, with Beyonce, with all of their understudies as well in the industry. And I'm so curious to see how the industry changed, how the media industry changes around music, how the music industry changes. Because like I said before, we're seeing shorter and shorter generations. So five years can be considered a generation at this point. So I'm sure the changes we see are going to be swift, and I'm curious to see what they look like.

[B]

Shanti, when you think about the next 10 years. So 10 years from now, what do you feel like people will be looking back to this time in terms of nostalgia? What from the music landscape will feel nostalgic to people in teenagers?

[C]

That's a great question. To your point, everything is moving so quickly, and with AI, it's going to be interesting to see how the entertainment industry embraces it, because I just saw that the academy banned any AI actors from being able to win Grammys. And so the recording Academy is now really struggling, trying to figure out how they move forward and still be able to support the rights of real human artists and musicians. And so interesting. I have to go back to the Michael movie because here we are, what, 40 years later after Michael released probably the Bad album, and he is experiencing stardom again from the grave. And I think you can see from the people that went out, it was generational audiences. It was people that not only grew up with Michael, but it was. I saw kids doing every move to Thriller and I made kids late 8 to 16, showing up dressed like Michael, college students going to the movie. And so I think we'll still reach back into the Rihannas, to the Beyonce, and that nostalgia of those artists will still be celebrated, the Chris Browns of the world. But I do think it is getting harder and harder to build what we look at as traditional superstars. And I think now when you look at artists like Ariana, because they're big business, right? So their name and likeness and music now becomes a big business and they are able to take advantage of that. So even looking at Rihanna with like her beauty business and brand, she didn't really have to go back and create new music. I think the fans are like longing and really hungry for new Rihanna music. But she's like, I'm cool. I'm starting my family. I'm happy. I got the billion going on on this side. Maybe I'll come back and do new music. So I don't know what the future of the business really holds. And if a lot of these artists as they should start investing in other things outside of music, do they still even really want to have the longevity of that? I think what still will be a key factor for music for musicians and artists moving forward is live touring. That is, to me, what saves the legacy of these artists. It is what continues to build superstars because a lot of people can create a song and it can get millions of streams, but everybody can't perform live. That's when it's what's going to separate the superstars from just the regular folks that put out music. I mean, I even had a friend who just created a song using is it Suno, if I'm saying it correctly, which is like the AI platform where you can essentially create a song and you can get the voice and you can mix it and do everything you need to do right there in that app. And so that's no disrespect, but this person doesn't live, eat and breathe songwriting. They didn't go to school for songwriting. So it's just something they're doing for Fun. So we see these AI artists popping up, but they can't tour live. And so as long as we make sure we keep supporting our artists going to the live concerts, we seen what happened with Ticketmaster and how they're going to have to hopefully charge less for these prices of the tickets. And we'll continue to be able to let people go and see some of their favorite artists. But that's what's going to set artists apart. And so you'll see the nostalgia of folks still wanting to go and to see their favorite artists perform. That's what's going to keep the superstars going both domestically and globally.

[D]

And to that point, that just sparked a point in my head. As we wrap considering the future of music, I think what we have already seen is what we're about to see, which is the globalization of music. Since 2006, obviously in 2006 and throughout since then, the US is considered the dominant global force in music. And the reason why is because of the black American contributions to American music. And that is why it's considered the dominant global music. But now I think we've sort of seen that black music innovation is no longer centralized in the US as people are paying attention to markets outside of America, where black music has always been created but is now finding flinging in the Western world. And those centers are Lagos, Johannesburg, obviously Kingston with the Arab dance hall and reggae. But right now, as we have seen, Afrobeats already become mainstream. Those markets are on the continent. And that is because the world's youth population is on the continent. 70% of Sub Saharan Africa alone is under the age of 30. 60% of the entire continent is under the age of 25. So those are the key demos of the people who shape and move culture. It's young people. And the continent hosts the world's largest demographic of young people. So I have already been heavily involved in the movement of Afro Pop Afrobeats becoming mainstream in America through the coverage I've done over the last 10 years. And having seen how that developed now I can guarantee that the future of superstars might not look the same as what we've seen, because they might not be in America. Rihanna is also another great example of that. Someone who is not from America, who became the blueprint of what a global superstar looks like. So I can guarantee that there is going to be this heightened awareness that the first and last frontier is Africa. There's going to be a heightened awareness of markets outside of the US and how to merge markets and merge audiences and pull Superstars from other parts of the world into the American mainstream. And also just hopefully a less superficial interest in global sounds and cultures.

[B]

That's such an important point. I really appreciate you bringing that into this conversation. This has been such a fun conversation. I so appreciated the thoughts from both of you. Eva, let us know where we can stay connected with you. What is your website as well as any social media media channels you'd like to share?

[D]

Yes, if you go to my website, evani.com Most of my work is there, from writing to onair and a bunch of other things. And you can follow me on Instagram @eva ani that's IV I E period. A n I Twitter threads. I'm on threads too. TikTok. I'm learning how to use it, but I'm on TikTok. I have a substack in full effect as well. And there is about to be a few things coming down the pipeline that's worth checking out. So definitely check out my website, my Instagram for updates.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

And what about you, Shanti?

[C]

You can find me at Shanti Doss404 and my website is Shantidas. S H a n T I D A S dot B I Z and so I have to take a moment to celebrate Eva. So I started in the business, literally when I was in College in 1991. I've seen a lot from the days of MC Hammer to BV and CC Winans to working outkast first record players, ball being right there, taking Usher on his first tour dates in the early 90s and working with Tony Braxton and doing marketing for Prince. And, you know, marketing and publicity went hand in hand. Right. And so I met a lot of journalists over the years and I've seen what has happened with the attack on journalism and particularly black journalists, African American journalists, both here and globally. The future is bright with you. You are so intelligent, so knowledgeable, and I have not seen the real journalistic integrity from a music perspective. There's some. Some great ones out there, I'm sure. But just even in terms of me paying attention and hearing how you look at music, how you understand the past and the present and the future, I just want to salute you. And I still have great relationships with people and entertainment. But I will be here for you to help continue to uplift you in the culture and what you're doing and you're sp. I also want to shout out Tuma Basa, who's done a lot in terms of Afrobeats. He's a friend of mine. I've known him since the MTV days and what he has been able to do through YouTube and bringing the continent to America. And I do think that you'll find more global superstars emerging outside of the US and so it's exciting. But we do also have to pay close attention to making sure that you have the right team around you from a marketing and promotion perspective. And I would love to see more of that growing. Maybe there are labels that are birthed in the continent and you see more independent labels coming up. I'm sorry, I know I went over what you probably wanted to ask me, but I think it's important that we marry to the generations and that we support one another. But we really need real journalists to tell the story. It's more than just a quick hit on TikTok or more than just, you know, a vertical 30 minute, 30 second clip on IG. We still need real journalists to tell the stories of these musicians. And the way you so beautifully and eloquently spoke about the Rihannas and the Beyonce's, it's super important that we have someone who understands the personal and professional nuances and that we share that out to the fans. So thank you and keep doing what you're doing. You know how I feel about you. I absolutely love you and all that you do. So thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.

[B]

Absolutely, Shanti. And please tell us where we can support Silence the Shame as well.

[C]

Yes. So you can visit our website at www.silencetheshame.com follow us on instagra, TikTok and I don't think we might be on threads silenceashame and just make sure that you all still know that it's okay not to be okay. And I have so many of these conversations with a lot of my music colleagues and we've partnered with folks like Sony Music Publishing and other organizations VMI within the music industry. And we want to continue to foster a relationship that allows artists and musicians, especially black and brown people, to know that it's okay to get help and that support is out there.

[B]

Beautiful. We will be sure to include all of that information in our show notes. Thank you both for spending some time with us today. I really appreciate it.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[A]

I'm so glad that Shanti and Eva

[B]

were able to join me for this

[A]

wonderful conversation to learn more about them and their work. Be sure to visit the show [e-mail] session 468 and don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions and suggestions for the podcast? Drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us

[B]

know what's on your mind.

[A]

We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist [e-mail] directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and you can join us on Patreon for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content and much more. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechuvu and Tyre Rush. Editing was done by Denison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining

[B]

me again this week.

[A]

I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care, Ladies. If you're in that phase where your body is just doing new things, sleep's weird, energy's weird, cravings also weird, you're not alone. It's totally normal. Menopause and perimenopause just means your body needs a little support. And sprouts makes that support easier so you can start feeling more like you. Tons of fresh organic produce for fiber, sprouts, protein and creatine to keep your muscles and bones strong and your energy up, and supplements that can help you manage mood shifts. So whether it's perimenopause, menopause or any other health journey, it's easier at sprouts Farmer's Market Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a severe Autoimmune Condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and eye gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Life with a severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Trump administration and its backers in Congress are messing around with their health care. They already passed a law defunding Planned Parenthood that blocks Medicaid patients from getting life saving care like cancer screenings, wellness exams, birth control, STI treatment, and more. And now these lawmakers want to shut down health centers by defunding Planned Parenthood permanently. Our communities deserve better. To learn how you can get involved, Text update to 22422 Every parent should know the Car Ride Soundtrack Are we there yet? How much longer? I'm bored. If you're taking an extensive car ride anywhere and you've downloaded the Lingokids app prior to leaving the house, you may experience something strange. You may experience silence from the backseat. Your kid may go an entire car ride without asking once if they were there yet. And by chance of a miracle, they may even ask if you could drive longer. That's the magic in LingoKids, over 4,000 interactive games, songs, and shows, including their favorite Disney characters that kids get completely hooked on. It turns the longest drives into the easiest ones, and honestly, you won't understand why you didn't download it sooner. Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids, and it's free to Download or go. Plus, with a LingoKids subscription and unlock even more content your kids won't be able to get enough of, you can save up to 60% on the yearly plan, search lingokids in the app Store or Google Play. Everything Kids Love Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu.

[C]

this is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.