← Therapy for Black Girls
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- [00:11]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website@therapyforblackgirls.com while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.
- [00:56]
Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining ME for session 474 of the therapy for Black Girls podcast. In this conversation I'm joined by neuropsychologist Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett for a deep dive into brain health and cognitive aging. We're exploring the neurological impact of our digital habits and discussing the everyday practices that support long term wellness. Press play and let's get into it right after our break.
- [01:25]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [01:28]
Martine Hackett
Guaranteed Human living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a severe autoimmune condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and eye gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:03]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
I love my phone, but not my carrier.
- [02:05]
Customer
What do I do?
- [02:06]
T-Mobile Representative
Well, there are 250 reasons to join T Mobile.
- [02:09]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Like what?
- [02:09]
T-Mobile Representative
You can keep your phone and your number. And T Mobile helps pay it off. Up to $800 per line.
- [02:14]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?
- [02:15]
T-Mobile Representative
Yep. Plus your plan price stays the same for 5 years on experience plans.
- [02:20]
Child
Nice.
- [02:20]
T-Mobile Representative
Find your reason. At T Mobile do
- [02:25]
Customer
via virtual prepaid guard car. Typically takes 15 days after rebate submission price guarantee on TalkText and 5G data exclusions like taxes and fees apply.
- [02:32]
Child
Mom, are we there yet?
- [02:33]
Parent
10 more minutes.
- [02:34]
Child
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [02:37]
Parent
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [02:41]
They love it. The games. This funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [02:47]
Child
No.
- [02:49]
Lingokids Advertiser
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of. Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [02:56]
Parent
Why didn't we download this sooner?
- [02:58]
Lingokids, everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [03:02]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
This is Mandy Woodruff Santos from brown ambition. When you think about discovering small brands, what store pops into your mind? Well, it should be Walmart. Seriously, Walmart has thousands of small brands and they're all in one place. Just go online or in store, discover and shop. It could not be easier. Every one of these brands has a real story and real people behind it. They're true American success stories and you can find them all at Walmart. Discover thousands of small brands@walmart.com today.
- [03:36]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
We talk a lot on this show about protecting our mental health. But today we're widening the lens to something bigger, brain health. Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett is a neuropsychologist at UCSF's Memory and Aging center, and her research looks at why black women carry the highest projected rates of Alzheimer's
- [03:54]
Co-host or Interviewer
disease of any group.
- [03:55]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
We get into the five habits she recommends to every patient, what our phones are doing to our sleep and our attention and the concept of weathering the biological toll that living under structural racism and sexism takes on the body over time. She also walks us through her work on Afrofuturism and hopefulness and why she believes imagining the future we want is its own brain health practice.
- [04:19]
Co-host or Interviewer
Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today.
- [04:27]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Dr. Tanisha thank you for having me.
- [04:29]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
It's really nice to be here.
- [04:31]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you. Thank you.
- [04:32]
Co-host or Interviewer
So I would love for you to get us started by telling us a little bit about your background and what drew you to neuropsychology.
- [04:39]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yes. So, hi everyone. I am Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett. I am a neuropsychologist and assistant professor at the University of California, San Francisco's Memory and Aging Center. And really I got into neuropsychology in this interesting way. I actually didn't really know what neuropsychology was, but I knew I wanted to study psychology. And because I was always interested in human behavior, the why behind why people engage the way they do, why they act the way they do. And I also was interested in understanding the brain, which we understand drives why people engage in the behaviors that they do. And so as an undergraduate, I actually studied psychology and neuroscience. And then one of my mentors later in my undergraduate degree was like, well, have you heard of neuropsychology? It's really the combination of the two of them. And so that's when I started looking into it. And I felt like neuroscience was a little too bench science for me. I wanted something that I could work with people directly. And so for me, that's where I got into neuropsychology and I decided to pursue it in graduate school and even further.
- [05:47]
Co-host or Interviewer
You specifically focus on cognitive aging. So tell us about how you got into that as a specialty.
- [05:53]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yes, that was also a little bit of a journey for me. So my graduate degree, when I was studying for graduate school, I actually focused on traumatic brain injury and focused on attention changes after traumatic brain injury. So it was a neuropsychology program, but I used cognitive neuroscience methods, so things like eeg, mri, et cetera. And at that time, there was emerging evidence that there was this relationship between traumatic brain injury and dementia and Alzheimer's disease. And so I started looking more into that and started becoming more interested in Alzheimer's disease, aging, cognitive aging. And what I saw were that there were disparities. And so black Americans were disproportionately impacted by, by Alzheimer's disease. And so I decided to focus my career on understanding the why behind that.
- [06:43]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So when we're talking about brain health,
- [06:45]
Co-host or Interviewer
what are we talking about specifically and how is that different, if at all, from mental health?
- [06:50]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Right. So brain health is not necessarily just the absence of disease or the lack of underlying pathology. And so the World Health Organization actually thinks about it across a couple of different domains. So they think about it as being the combination of a person's cognitive functioning, their socio emotional functioning, behavioral functioning, sensory functioning, as well as motor functioning. So it's quite broad. And really, when we think about mental health, mental health is kind of subsumed under brain health. So mental health is a component of a person's brain health. And so doing things that are good for your mental health also supports a person's brain health.
- [07:29]
Co-host or Interviewer
So we are hearing so many conversations recently around like productivity and optimization, but what actually matters most when we're talking about preserving our brain health? You already talked about like these several dimensions. I'm guessing it's maybe a little bit across these dimensions.
- [07:43]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah. So when I see people clinically, I tell them to really focus on a couple of core things. One thing is cardiovascular exercise. So engaging in cardiovascular exercise supports our brain vascular system and ultimately is good for brain health. And typically what's recommended is engaging in about 150 minutes of moderate cardiovascular exercise, which sounds like a lot. 150 minutes per week for. But really, if you break it down, it's really 30 minutes a day if you just do it during the weekdays. Right. And what's moderate cardiovascular exercise? It's more than just walking, and it's really something that it leaves you a little bit out of breath, but you're not like panting. So it's challenging for you to talk while you're engaging in that activity. So that's one thing, engaging in cardiovascular exercise. The other thing is eating a heart healthy diet. So really what I share is what's good for your heart is also good for your brain. And there's been research showing that the Mediterranean diet in particular is really supportive of brain health. And what the research has shown is that people that live in the Mediterranean actually have lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia. And so the Mediterranean diet consists of things like fish, whole grains, berries, leafy foods, olive oil, et cetera. There's also what's called the DASH diet and I cannot remember the exact acronym, but basically it's like an anti hypertensive diet. So the mind diet, the DASH diet. The other thing is managing stress. So reducing things that cause stressors in our lives and that can be by just like reducing the external stressor, but also seeking social support, engaging in spirituality or coping practices that are meaningful to you. So that's the other thing. And then the last two things I typically recommend are social engagement, so getting out there, talking to people, having meaningful social connections, and then sleep, so getting really good quality sleep. And the interesting thing is as we get older, the actual number of hours of sleep that we need reduces over time. But it's still recommended for like middle aged adults to get around 7, 7 solid hours of sleep. And the reason for that is while we're sleeping our brain has what's called the glymphatic system and it clears out these abnormalities, like these protein abnormalities and neurotoxins that develop in our brain. And so while we're sleeping it's like washing out these bad things that can contrib to certain forms of dementia over time. So it's really important to get sleep as well. So those are like the core things that I recommend people do to preserve their brain health over time.
- [10:21]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Can you say more about the social
- [10:23]
Co-host or Interviewer
engagement and how that actually impacts your brain health?
- [10:26]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So social engagement I think gives people a sense of purpose, it gives you a sense of connectedness to people. It also one of the things is talking to people, engaging in conversation. The one thing that we know about the brain is that challenging your brain to think in new ways is really important for neuroplasticity. So the ability for us to form those new like brain connections, those neuronal connections, and with social engagement it offers us the opportunity one to meet new people, to talk to people about things perhaps that we haven't thought about or engaged in in these new sorts of ways. And it also gives people kind of a sense of purpose and meaning to their life as well. So I think all of these things combined help to support brain health.
- [11:15]
Co-host or Interviewer
I really appreciate you offering that list because one of the things that I have been very curious about and as a podcast we've been very curious about is all of the digital technology, like all of the things that really impact it sounds like a lot of the things that you're saying we actually should be doing. Right? So we know that if we're like upscrolling on our phone, we're not getting quality sleep or maybe the hours of sleep. Right. But can you talk about like the impact of social media and kind of like being on our phones and so connected to devices, what impact does that have on our brain health?
- [11:45]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah, it's interesting because it's a double edged sword. So like when I think about it, it offers an opportunity for social connection. And I'm thinking during the pandemic times, right, when we were actually socially isolated, really the only way that we had to connect to one another when we were quarantining was through social media. So things like Instagram, TikTok, et cetera. And I also think it offers us the opportunity to cast a wider net to reach people perhaps that I never would have known existed or to learn about different people and the ideas that they're sharing with the world. I know that people have reached out to me via social media because they've seen my content on social media. So I don't think it's all bad. But I also think that it can be if used in a way that's negligent or if you're not mindful about your use. So when we think about sleep, the blue light, actually there's an association between blue light and quality of sleep. And so there's evidence that's coming out showing that it reduces our melatonin production which disrupts our REM sleep cycle. So it actually interferes with our quality of sleep. And I know sometimes like when I wake up in the middle of the night, the first thing I do is go, I grab that phone and I start scrolling and actually that's not what you should be doing. So that's one thing. The other thing I think it's interesting to think about social media from like an addiction standpoint. And really what we're seeing is that this kind of short form content, what's coming out of social media, so like these very brief videos like 30 seconds to a minute, right? That's pretty standard for TikTok or Instagram, these other platforms creates this burst of dopamine. So dopamine's that feel good neurotransmitter that comes from the region of the brain called the ventral tegmatic mental area and the ventral tegmental area. So it shoots this burst of dopamine, and it actually goes to this region of the brain called the nucleus accumbens, which, when we look at addiction, those two parts of the brain are actually implicated in addictive behaviors. And what we're seeing is that in addiction and things like gambling, drugs, and maybe even social media, I mean, people are still investigating this. There's 10 times the burst of dopamine that you receive compared to just a typical reward that you would receive. So it's actually flooding this system. And the nucleus accumbens is really important for, like, motivation, desire. So this pathway that links these two brain regions is this cyclical thing that puts you in this loop of addiction. And so it's possible that with, like, social media, we're constantly seeking that next video. We're constantly seeking something that satisfies us that kind of fulfills that craving that we're looking for in this kind of short form, content. And, and so I think that there's definitely an association and people are looking at this between social media engagement and addiction. The other thing I think that's really important to. To keep in mind is when I go back to sleep, it also impacts our memory consolidation, right? So, like, if we're not sleeping well, we're actually not able to retain the things that we experience throughout the day or learned throughout the day.
- [15:06]
Child
So.
- [15:07]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So that's another piece. And then when I think about attention, I can speak for myself. Getting these little bursts of things here and there, right? In the short form content, it requires you to divide your attention. I know, like, I'm scrolling while I'm, like, looking at something on my laptop, or I'm, like, listening to somebody talk, but I'm also on my phone. And I think it causes our attention span to shorten over time, and our ability to, like, focus for, like, these deep, intensive periods has reduced. We'll see. Because I think for Gen Alpha and the people that were basically like post millennials, they grew up with social media, right? And so we'll kind of be able to compare over time what the impact of this has on people's brains and their developing brains.
- [15:55]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [15:56]
Co-host or Interviewer
You know, when I hear you talk about, like, the. The Shots of dopamine. It does make me really curious around if you know of any, like, research or maybe you can speak to this. The dopamine that kind of floods the system from like a video versus, like a two hour movie. Is the dopamine distributed kind of over across time for a two hour movie
- [16:16]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
versus like a quick burst for 30 seconds?
- [16:18]
Co-host or Interviewer
Can you talk to that at all?
- [16:19]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah. You know, I don't know if anybody's directly compared it, but my thought would be so, like these quick bursts and like, with social media in particular, the reinforcement schedule, like, if we think back to basic psychology and reinforcement, social media is considered an intermittent reinforcement schedule to where you're getting things that are interesting to you not consistently. Right. Like if you think about your for you page or if you're just like scrolling your timeline, there might be something that's interesting, there might not be something that's interesting, and then you find something that's like super interesting. So that inconsistency is actually what contributes to the addiction because you're not exactly sure when you're going to get that next, like super flood of dopamine. So you constantly seek that, whereas with a film it's kind of like this persistent thing that's happening throughout a longer duration of time. So I feel like social media, because it's like such a short snippet, might actually be more. More addictive, I would think, in terms of like the burst of dopamine and the schedule, like that reinforcement schedule, you
- [17:23]
Co-host or Interviewer
know, and we've been having conversations in the community about people just feeling exhausted.
- [17:27]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [17:27]
Co-host or Interviewer
Like, it kind of feels like we all have just like a thousand tabs open in our minds, constantly switching back and forth, forth. So for people who are listening, who just maybe feel exhausted and feel like their brain may be begging for something else, what kinds of things would you suggest?
- [17:41]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
I really love that Instagram now has a timer and I've actually started experimenting with it myself. You can set a limit to how long you're on social media. And I know there's apps that allow you to do that as well, where it'll literally block you from engaging. So I think being mindful about how much time you're actually spending and. And I've actually created a completely separate Instagram account. Like, one is professional, one is personal. But I found that on my professional one, it's really highly curated to things that I'm professionally interested in. And I've found that it tends to be a little bit more positive, I guess, overall. And it's not that like the people that I'm following are always negative, but I find that like being intentional about what I'm curating and what I'm consuming is also a piece of that to support my own mental health. And so, yeah, I definitely have two separate accounts. And it's interesting comparing across the two, what sort of content comes up. So that's, I think, another thing. And then I would also say, like, meet people in real life, you know, in 3D. Get out there in the real world and remember that there are people out there and there's other ways of engaging beyond just social media. And I think social media has its perks. It can be helpful. I think that that's what society has adjusted to. But I also think that, yeah, like reading a book, like you don't always have to read it on your Kindle or read articles online, like print stuff out, go to the park and read. So remembering that there's like the analog, the analog world still exists. It doesn't always have to be a digital thing. And keeping in touch with the analog world is important too.
- [19:21]
Co-host or Interviewer
Are there things specifically for people who maybe want to come retrain their attention span? Right. Since we are, you know, so used to quick hits, is there a way, I mean, you just mentioned kind of like reading book, reading things in print. Are there other things you would offer for like retraining that?
- [19:35]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
One thing that people do, and I know that I do this when I'm writing, is called the Pomodoro method. And so it's literally setting a goal, but breaking it up into specific fragments. So like based on the amount of time you want to work, so say I want to work for one hour and I'm like, okay, I'll do like a 20 minute session, get up, take a break, reset my mind, come sit back down and start back again. Because I think that it's really challenging just to sustain your attention. And I find that when I'm trying to focus for extended periods of time without a break, I actually don't even really get that much more done. But if I would have taken that break and like reset that opportunity to kind of reset, refresh and then sit back down, actually get more done, maybe even in a shorter period of time, that's one thing that I would recommend as well. So breaking it up, taking breaks to refocus your attention, I don't think we're meant to sustain our attention for hours and hours at a time. So having that opportunity to divide it up is really important too.
- [20:42]
Co-host or Interviewer
So would you say though a key to the Pomodoro method is that your reset should not involve like a quick scroll, right? Like maybe it's a quick walk or like going outside and taking some deep breaths or something like that.
- [20:53]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Absolutely, yes. We don't want to.
- [20:55]
Co-host or Interviewer
We don't want to.
- [20:57]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Something that like grabs our attention and pulls us into something else. It's literally an opportunity for us to clear our minds of what we're actively working on, not to, you know, divert our attention to something else. So you're exactly right. Like taking a walk, taking some breaths, you know, engaging in mindfulness practices. All of that is really helpful. Yep.
- [21:19]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
More from our conversation after the break.
- [21:26]
Martine Hackett
Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for Season six of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like Myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your
- [22:18]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [23:19]
Child
mom, can I have lingokids? Dad Lingokids please.
- [23:23]
Parent
When did we Become the Lingokids house.
- [23:25]
No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs.
- [23:27]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
This week it's Lingokids.
- [23:29]
Parent
Why Lingokids?
- [23:30]
Child
Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals, and super heroes.
- [23:35]
Lingokids Advertiser
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs, and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [23:42]
Child
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [23:47]
Parent
Everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [23:49]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
One in 40 people have OCD, a
- [23:52]
Martine Hackett
real anxiety disorder that is deeply misunderstood and rarely talked about.
- [23:55]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Honestly, in communities where mental health stigma already runs deep, it often goes completely unrecognized. NOCD is the world's leading treatment provider for ocd. All of their licensed therapists specialize in ERP therapy, exposure and response prevention, which has proven to be the most effective treatment for OCD. To learn more about starting OCD therapy
- [24:16]
Martine Hackett
with NOCD, go to learn.nocd.comTBG and book a free call with your team.
- [24:23]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That's learn nocd.comTBG
- [24:29]
Co-host or Interviewer
so as you were talking about, like, your origin story, so to speak, and what really got you interested, especially in the cognitive aging piece, you talked about the disparities that you noticed in how African Americans, like, there were higher rates of Alzheimer's. And so a lot of your research actually now looks at racism and sexism and how they intersect in cognitive aging.
- [24:48]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
How do these experiences tend to show
- [24:50]
Co-host or Interviewer
up in the brain across time?
- [24:52]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
What I focus on is what's called cognitive aging and cognitive functioning. And so that's essentially our thinking skills. So looking at things like attention, memory processing speed, language functioning, et cetera. And I look at it across a person's life course. And actually what we've been seeing is that these disparities exist and even in midlife. So anywhere from, like, 40s to 50s, even though oftentimes people are being diagnosed later in life. So in their 60s and 70s and the like, average age of a person having Alzheimer's disease is around 65. These disparities emerge pretty early on in a person's life, which leads us to believe that people are kind of put on this trajectory based on the structural experiences that they're subjected to throughout their life course. And so what my research has focused on is looking historically at structural racism. How do we capture those experiences, as well as structural sexism in their intersections? And how does that shape what's happening in contemporary times? So I think it's important to look at, like, historically but also present day, because it's pervasive, but the way it manifests changes over time. And so that's been the focus of my work. And what we've seen is that, yes, black Americans have about 1.5 to 2 times higher risk of developing Alzheimer's disease compared to white Americans. Latinos also experience the disparity as well. And women actually have a higher prevalence of Alzheimer's disease. And so when you look at the intersections, it's actually black women that have the highest projected prevalence of Alzheimer's disease. And initially I think people thought it was because women tend to live longer, and Alzheimer's disease is a disorder of aging, but it's actually above and beyond women's ability or women's longer lifespan, and it's above and beyond genetics as well. And so what research has really focused on are the, like, the social and structural determinants of Alzheimer's disease. So the environments that people are living in, aging in, work in, etc. And how that shapes their risk and contributes to this disparity over time.
- [27:14]
Co-host or Interviewer
And what have your studies and even just your thoughts led you to believe around, like, why black women have the highest rates and at the top of that list?
- [27:22]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So it's interesting, I think, that there's been a lot of examination of the environment that people live in, their neighborhoods and that sort of thing. And black women, actually, even upwardly mobile black women, despite their socioeconomic status, actually end up disproportionately living in neighborhoods that are considered disadvantaged. And you can look at that in relation to what the demographics are of that neighborhood. So things like education, occupational status, environmental hazards, et cetera. So looking at that surrounding neighborhood environment. So it's not just about the, the family socioeconomic status. It's the actual, like, neighborhood and like living conditions as well. Smoke exposure, is there green space for people to walk around and to go to the park? Do they exist in a place where there's like a food desert, so there's not access to healthy foods, et cetera? So there's a number of kind of different intersecting things. And so despite black women being like upwardly mobile, like, having the highest rates of like, bachelor's degrees and these number of things, they're disproportionately living in these environments that shape their brain health over time.
- [28:36]
Co-host or Interviewer
And I'm sure you're familiar with the term weathering. We've talked about that on the podcast, But I'm sure that that has come up in your work as well. Can you talk about the impact of weathering, what that is, and how you may be be seeing it play out in brain health?
- [28:47]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah. So weathering is a term coined by Arlene Geronimus that is meant to capture the accelerated biological aging that black women experience compared to women of other racial and ethnic groups. And one of, I believe it was Arlene Geronimus's study or one of the studies looking at telomeres. So telomeres are thought to be an indicator of biological aging. Telomeres are essentially like the end caps of a chromosome. And so as we get older, your telomeres get shorter, naturally. And so it's thought to be this indicator of a person's internal sort of biological age. And what looking at this length tells you is how much weathering in addition to just like natural aging a person experiences. And one of the studies found that in comparison to white women, black women were about seven and a half years biologically older. So when matched on chronological age, black women are about seven and a half years biologically older compared to white women. And it's thought to be due to these systems of disadvantage that causes like this wear and tear on black women's bodies over time. I think that also has implications for cognitive aging as well. And the relationship isn't as straightforward as we thought it would be. So, like, looking at what predicts this accelerated aging, of course we know it's systems of disadvantage, but how they're exactly related, whether socioeconomic status is also like a buffer. So having higher socioeconomic status could potentially mitigate the impact of this. So people are starting to try to tease apart the different, like, nuanced relationships to have a better understanding of this overall.
- [30:33]
Co-host or Interviewer
You know, as you were talking and one of my questions and you answered, it was going to be around, like, are we seeing higher rates of things like Alzheimer's and women? And when you talked about, like, the sleep impact on brain health, it made me think about, like, all the conversations we've been having around, like, perimenopause and menopause. And I'm thinking around, like, is there a connection there? Just given kind of, like, the hormonal changes on the other changes that tends to impact women at that age, when maybe almost right before there would be the onset of something like Alzheimer's?
- [31:01]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yes. So that actually has been, I think, where the field is focusing its attention now. And interestingly, I don't know that there's really been, like, a comprehensive longitudinal study that's captured all of the information we would need to have to be able to address this. But what we know is that when women experience menopause perimenopause, there's, like, a rapid decrease in estrogen. And estrogen has been found to be supportive of brain health. And so people are thinking that perhaps around this time in this, like, rapid deterioration in estrogen and these other sorts of hormones, there may be an association with Alzheimer's disease. Researchers are designing studies that are allowing us to get more into women's health history so that we can, like, longitudinally examine these associations more clearly, because there's other confounding factors that could potentially impact this. And so having like, a really strongly designed study, I think, is really critical. And so that's really where the field, I think, is focusing its efforts as well.
- [32:09]
Co-host or Interviewer
Can you talk about maybe some other
- [32:10]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
blind spots that you feel like, need
- [32:12]
Co-host or Interviewer
to be addressed as it relates specifically to black women in cognitive aging?
- [32:17]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah, I think. And this is my own personal interest, I think, and this is something that I'm actively working on reframing myself. I think that black women are often pathologized and discussed in this sort of deficits framework. And that's not to negate the fact that disparities are a real thing, and, like, black women are disproportionately impacted by it. But black women also exist in this way that's very healthy. They live long, healthy, full lives. And I think understanding what allows us to live well is also just as important as explaining what's not allowing us to live well. For me, I've been focusing on hopefulness, how hopefulness might shape brain health. I've been thinking through afrofuturism and what it means for black women to shape the future that they want, what that looks like and civic engagement, so how that shapes brain health. So I think there are other things to be focused on. Like, we understand that the disparity exists. I think it's important to understand why. But I also think it's equally important to think about how. How to intervene. And black women have the answers to that because we have black women that are doing well. Right. So understanding that through a black woman's lens, I think, is really important. And that's also been a focus of my work.
- [33:41]
Co-host or Interviewer
So we know that if we aren't necessarily in the room to ask these questions, then other people are not necessarily thinking about this. Right. You are bringing your own particular lens, your family lens, your cultural lens, to the work that you're doing. Can you talk about kind of just the state of, like, your field? And, like, do you feel like there is more need for diversity, for people to come at these questions from lots of different angles?
- [34:05]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Absolutely. I think there needs to be More diversity in the field. I think there needs to be more black women in the field and I think there needs to be more community engaged work and community based participatory research. When I think about academia and even my experiences as a graduate student, it feels very siloed and very disconnected from what's actually happening in the real world. And a lot of the times when you're first learning, you're just reading about these statistics and information in a book you have no concrete hands on, unless maybe you have a family member or someone that's directly impacted by the thing that you're studying. It feels very distant from like the actual issue at hand. And I think the best way for people to learn about an issue is to talk to the people that are directly impacted by it and to allow them to lead what the questions are from a research standpoint and to be involved in the research. And so with some of the community based research that I'm doing, that's exactly what's happening. It's like it's a collaboration where they're actually a part of the process as well and guiding what the questions are. And yes, researchers have expertise in the actual research methodology, but I think the people with the lived experiences bring the questions and they also can shape the research methodology as well. So I think that's really where the field should be going and not being so like siloed and hierarchical. And the other thing, it's really kind of wild. It's like you get these results, you publish them in this journal that nobody ever reads unless you're an academic and like very specifically interested in this topic. And the people that are impacted by it never have access to. It's like behind a paywall or whatever. So I think also thinking about ways to translate the work. First of all, the community should own the results. So like, let's start there. But also thinking about important ways to translate the research in a way that's tangible for the, for a layperson to understand so that they actually can do something with the information is really important. And I think where the field should go as well.
- [36:19]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
More from our conversation after the break.
- [36:26]
Martine Hackett
Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe autoimmune Condition. A Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like Myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to untold life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are Wherever you get your
- [37:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [38:18]
Child
mom, are we there yet?
- [38:20]
Parent
10 more minutes.
- [38:21]
Child
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [38:24]
Parent
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [38:28]
They love it. The games, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [38:34]
Child
No.
- [38:35]
Lingokids Advertiser
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [38:43]
Parent
Why didn't we download this sooner?
- [38:45]
LingoKids everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [38:49]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
1 in 40 people have OCD, a
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Martine Hackett
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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Martine Hackett
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That's learn nocd.comTBG.
- [39:31]
Co-host or Interviewer
So I can imagine that there's a young sister somewhere who's Gonna hear you, Dr. Tanisha, on the podcast and say, oh, my gosh, I want to do what she does.
- [39:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [39:39]
Co-host or Interviewer
And just like you talked about kind of stumbling into your field, what advice would you give to someone who maybe hears this and thinks, like, oh, I want to study something like that, like,
- [39:48]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
how do I shape my career?
- [39:49]
Co-host or Interviewer
Like that.
- [39:49]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
What advice would you have?
- [39:51]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah, I think really finding mentors. Finding mentors that are doing something, it doesn't have to be the exact thing that you want to do, but doing something that's in the ballpark of what you want to do. And I think diversifying the mentors that you have. So, like, maybe the person that helps you with, like, the research question isn't always the person that's going to help you with what community engagement looks like, isn't going to be the person maybe if you want to do more clinical work, that isn't going to be the person that informs you about Clin. So having people that can shape these different facets of who you are or who you're hoping to become, and then, yeah, combining and taking people don't always give you advice. That's helpful. So taking what you think is meaningful to you and then leaving the rest, rest behind, and I think doing it in that way, I also think it's important for people to get life experience. I know there's like this pressure to just jump straight into graduate school, jump straight into your career. One of the things going back to social media, we see people's highlight reels, and it looks like they're constantly, like, climbing this ladder of success, whatever that means. Right. But I think it's really important to take the time to know who you are, know what you actually care about. And that only comes through time and through experience and sometimes through trial and error. For me, it was a little bit of a windy path, and I didn't go into all the details of the story, but it took me doing sometimes things I didn't want to do to realize, like, I actually don't this or this doesn't have a lot of meaning to me. And so I don't think that I can do this for the rest of my life. And so it took me having those experiences to realize, okay, well, this is what I want to do. It's like a refinement process over time. And so that's another thing that I would recommend as well.
- [41:45]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you so much for that.
- [41:46]
Co-host or Interviewer
So you started offering us lots of great tips around, you know, things that we could do to kind of really take care of our brain health. Are there small kind of daily habits or things that you would suggest for people to kind of slow down any cognitive aging?
- [42:00]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Well, the one thing I will say is that we're all cognitively aging, But I think the thing to, like, preventative practices or like, daily preventative practices, trying to take walks, just walking, I think is helpful. Trying to do a brisk walk. Right. So thinking about the cardiovascular piece of it, I think with the phone, putting your phone on, do not disturb after a certain time.
- [42:27]
Parent
Right.
- [42:27]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
And really, I don't know, I've been trying to develop specific, like, rituals around bedtime so that it feels like I can calm my mind down. And I'm not. Not feeling the need to, like, look at my phone. It helps me to transition to sleep a little bit more easily. And it also, again, I'm not experiencing that blue light that, like, impacts the quality of my sleep over time. I also have been trying to be more just, like, mindful of my diet, grocery shopping and, like, planning, meal prepping, those sorts of things, I think all can support brain health as well. Yeah. So just, like, mindfully navigating throughout the
- [43:05]
Co-host or Interviewer
day, some of the things that I hear often. And you didn't mention, but you did mention, like, forming new. What did you call, like, new neural pathways can do is helpful for brain health. So, like, puzzles and like, using, like, hobbies with your hands, Are those kinds
- [43:20]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
of things also things we should be looking at?
- [43:22]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yes. So that's the other thing. So neuroplasticity is supported by novelty. And so, for instance, if you're doing this crossword puzzles every day, your brain kind of is already acclimated to that. So it's really about trying new things. And that's actually something that I've been doing too. Like, recently I started learning how to sew. I've always had an interest in sewing, so I started taking sewing classes. And it actually has challenged, like, it's challenged my brain. It's challenged my visual spatial skills. Like reading a pattern and translating it to actual fabric and material has been a challenge, but a good one for my brain. So it's about doing things that are new that maybe are a little bit outside of your box that stretches your brain to form those new connections and to think in different ways. So developing new hobbies is also really important.
- [44:14]
Co-host or Interviewer
Dr. Tanisha, is there anything that you would add to our conversation around, like, digital world and technology that you haven't said because of AI? Right. Like, is there anything to kind of keep in mind around, like, brain health and Cognitive aging as it relates to interacting with AI, since it feels like it's everywhere now.
- [44:33]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yeah, it's everywhere. I think it's almost like it's replacing. I won't say it's entirely replacing us, but I think it's. You could write an entire essay using AI without having to think. Right. And if we just go back to what I shared about building those new connections, thinking about things in new ways, you kind of eliminate that opportunity by using AI. So where there are moments, I think where AI is a little bit of a shortcut and it might help, like our efficiency throughout the day. I also think we should be using it mindfully and thinking about ways that it actually may be interfering with our ability to support our brain health too. So it's really. I think it's nuanced. I think there's just a balance that we need to strike. And then there's a lot to talk about AI being biased against certain communities. So I think it's a little bit of a, like, wild frontier and it's moving so quickly that, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot that we could talk about with that.
- [45:34]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you mentioned the term afrofuturism and we talked about that a little bit on the podcast, but definitely not a conversation that combines Afro futurism and things like neuroscience and brain health. Can you talk more about, like, how afrofuturism impacts your work and informs your work?
- [45:50]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Yes. So as a person who studies structural racism and sexism, I really want to center black women's visions for the future and what it means to be in a future where that's no longer a factor, where black women feel safe, where they feel protected and are a part of building that future. And so that's really what my entry point into afrofuturism was. But so I use it in a lot of the community engaged work that I do. So providing education to elders in the community about what Afrofuturism is, how they are Afrofuturists, how they come from a lineage of Afrofuturists by nature of just like them, making it to the next day. You're an Afrofuturist, you've designed a strategy to make it and to survive in today's society. So that's one thing. And then I also have been thinking about it in relation to supporting brain health and actually what I found. So it's, it's preliminary results, but I did a 10 week workshop with black women called Radical Imagination, a dream space for black women, where they used these Afrofuturistic practices. They learned about what afrofuturism was, they created art around Afrofuturism. And what we actually explored was the concept of time scarcity. So how black women's time is disproportionately monopolized to where they don't have time to care for themselves, for their well being, and how that's related to health. And so in this afrofuturistic framework, we actually asked, okay, what if time scarcity wasn't a thing? What if you had unlimited time? Like, what would you do with that? How would you support yourself? How would you support society? So it was really like this future sort of visioning exercise that had the participants thinking about what it would mean to exist in this kind of alternate potential future. And what I found at the end of the 10 week series was that the people that participated actually reported higher levels of hopefulness one and then hopefulness about their ability to shape the future. And so I think there's, there's research out there that shows being hopeful is supportive obviously of mental health, but also of brain health. And so I think having sort of this afrofuturistic framework, engaging with elders around what afrofuturism is, one shapes hopefulness. But I also think it's a way of getting them to think about how they can be involved in creating the future that they want. So it's not just like a mind exercise or like a thought exercise. It's actually like what are the practical strategies that we can use, use to build the future that we want. And ideally it's something that like motivates them to act on it as well. So that's one thing. And then afrofuturism intersects with our imagination, right, our ability to think about things. And there's a whole body of research that shows that simply imagining something, so like imagining me moving my hand or imagining me reaching out to grab the cup that's sitting beside me, activates the same areas of the brain that would be activated if I actually went and engaged in that action. So the simple act of imagination activates those pathways as well. So I think that there's these really interesting and potentially like unexplored areas that are showing relationships between like the simple act of just believing, having hope, imagining, and our actual brain active activity and potentially brain health. So that's something I'm interested in. So I'm interested in it from like a community engaged standpoint. But I'm also interested in like the neuropsychology, the neuroscience of it, and how it shapes long term Brain health.
- [49:37]
Co-host or Interviewer
I love that. That sounds very promising. Now is the plan to maybe run another 10 week group and then write this up or how are you thinking of expanding this work?
- [49:45]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So I wrote up the preliminary results in a paper so I have like a model of how all of these things that I just shared are connected. But I'm also wanting to, so move it from model to actual action, so the actual implementation. So if working with this group of seniors in the community, what's something that we want to change about our neighborhood? Right. And if there's something we want to change about our neighborhood, how can we apply this concept of afrofuturism, this framework, this hopefulness to make that change? So I want to move from let's talk about it to actually how can we intervene to shape the future that we want? And so for me, that's really the next step. And then another next step would be how over time does this impact a person's brain health? So there's the like, civic engagement, the community engagement piece, but there's also the like, how is this supporting beyond your subjective experience of it, which is important. It's definitely an important piece. But how is it supporting your cognitive functioning as well as like your physical brain health?
- [50:50]
Child
Health?
- [50:51]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Okay, so we will stay tuned for
- [50:53]
Co-host or Interviewer
more details about you publishing this model. Thank you for sharing that. So if there was one thing that listeners from this conversation could take away about how to take care of their brains long term, what would it be?
- [51:05]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
The one thing I would say is stay connected, stay moving and stay mindful. Those are like the three things that I would say. So stay connected to people in person if you have to. Okay. Online is fine as well, but ideally in person, stay moving. So getting your exercise in and then stay mindful. Stay mindful of what you're consuming, stay mindful of what you're eating, stay mindful of the sleep habits, et cetera. Yeah, those are the three main things.
- [51:34]
Co-host or Interviewer
So if there's somebody who's listening and they feel like, oh, I think I'm too far gone, like I've done irreparable damage to my brain because of the digital stimulation, what would you say to do?
- [51:44]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
It's never too late. It's never ever too late. You can engage in your brain health journey at any point in time. And the fact that you're still here is a testament to that. So you're. Yeah, there's never a wrong time to start. And so I encourage, if people are really interested in supporting their brain health, do it now. Yeah, it's Never too late.
- [52:06]
Co-host or Interviewer
And where can we stay connected with you Dr. Tanisha, is there a website
- [52:09]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
that you'd like to share in any social media channels?
- [52:12]
Child
Sure.
- [52:13]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
You can find some of the work and some of the writings that I've published at my website tanishahilljarrett.com and then you can also find me on Instagram at Black Women Futures. And then you can find me on LinkedIn at Tanisha Hill Jarrett.
- [52:31]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Perfect.
- [52:31]
We'll be sure to include all of
- [52:32]
Co-host or Interviewer
that in our Show Notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today.
- [52:35]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I appreciate it.
- [52:36]
Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
Thank you Dr. Joy. It's been a pleasure.
- [52:38]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you. I'm so glad Dr. Hill Jarrett was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the Show Notes at therapy for black girls.com session474. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions and suggestions for the podcast? Drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls or come on over and join us in our Patreon for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content and much more. We can't wait to see you inside. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Bria Moseley. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
- [53:52]
Martine Hackett
Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomed stories from other conditions like myositis and eye Gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:24]
Child
Mom, are we there yet?
- [54:25]
Parent
10 more minutes.
- [54:26]
Child
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [54:29]
Parent
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [54:33]
They love it. The games, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [54:39]
Child
No.
- [54:41]
Lingokids Advertiser
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [54:48]
Parent
Why didn't we download this sooner?
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Lingokids, everything kids love. Download it for free.
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Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
I love my phone but not my carrier.
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Customer
What do I do?
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T-Mobile Representative
Well, there are 250 reasons to join T Mobile.
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Like what?
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T-Mobile Representative
You can keep your phone and your number and T Mobile helps pay it off up to $800 per line.
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Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?
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T-Mobile Representative
Yep. Plus your plan price stays the same for 5 years on experience plans.
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Child
Nice.
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T-Mobile Representative
Find your reason@t mobile.com
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Customer
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Troy Millings
This is Troy Millings from Earn your leisure. When you think about discovering small brands, what store pops in your mind? Well, it should be Walmart. Seriously, Walmart has thousands of small brands and they're all in one place. Just go online or in store, discover and shop. It could not be easier. Every one of these brands has a real story and real people behind it. They're true American success stories and you can find them all at Walmart. Discover thousands of small brands@walmart.com today day
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Dr. Tanisha Hill Jarrett
this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.