← Therapy for Black Girls
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- [00:11]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website@therapyforblackgirls.com while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.
- [00:56]
Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining ME for session 476 of the therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today marks the start of our Surviving Middle School series and I'm excited to kick things off with Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall. We'll be diving into how to survive middle school in a tech driven world. But first, a quick word from our sponsors.
- [01:22]
Podcast Sponsor Voice
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human mom.
- [01:27]
Child Voice
Are we there yet?
- [01:28]
10 more minutes.
- [01:29]
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [01:32]
Parent Voice
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [01:36]
Child Voice
They love it. The games. Oh, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [01:41]
No.
- [01:43]
Sponsor Voice
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, Lingokids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [01:51]
Parent Voice
Why didn't we download this sooner?
- [01:53]
Child Voice
Lingokids.
- [01:54]
Everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [01:57]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Today's sponsor is Chamberlain University. You've seen them. Nurses who just own every moment. Who bring calm to chaos and hope to the hopeless, who make you think, that's exactly the kind of nurse I want to be. That's not by accident. That's by preparation. As the number one largest nursing school in the U.S. chamberlain University has been preparing nurses who don't just meet the moment. They own it. Start your journey at Chamberlain. Edu Chamberlain University. Belong to something greater Certified to operate by Chev. A new school year means new opportunities for positive change, big or small. For parents looking for a new path to help your child succeed this year there's still time to enroll in K12 powered online schools. This could be the perfect fit for your family. K12 powered schools offer tuition free accredited online public education for students in kindergarten through 12th grade. With a curriculum designed to meet your child where they are and and support their unique needs, interests and goals. K12's dedicated teachers are trained in virtual instruction and provide real time support. All in an online setting that works for your family at home or anywhere there's Internet. It's not too late to enroll for this fall. See how K12 powered schools can help your child thrive this year and beyond. Enroll online today@k12.com tfvg that's the letter K the number 12.com k12.com tfvg living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community in season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, they go beyond MG and cidp. As host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and eye gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what life was like
- [04:02]
in middle school, or are you currently
- [04:04]
parenting a middle schooler? It's an interesting time, isn't it? For a lot of us, middle school represents a particularly vulnerable time where we're rapidly developing as individuals and gaining independence, all while trying to figure out our place in the world. And for middle schoolers now, navigating all of that in a world where fast developing technologies are within arm's reach can make things a lot more complicated if the proper boundaries aren't in place. Today we're joined by Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall, Clinical Psychologist and Associate Clinical Director and Director of Community Impact and Evaluation at the Kids mental Health Foundation. Dr. Ragland Bignall has dedicated years of her career to creating accessible and equitable mental health resources for children and working with families to ensure safe and healthy parenting practices. In today's episode, we're chatting about the importance of fostering a balanced relationship between your middle schooler and technology, how to safely engage on the Internet, and why villainizing screens isn't necessarily the answer. Press play and let's get into it.
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Well, thank you so much for Joining
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us today, Dr. Whitney.
- [05:16]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
- [05:19]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I'm very excited to chat with you. This is a topic near and dear to my heart and it is a part of our Surviving Middle School series that we are doing. I am the mom of a seventh grader and so I have all kinds of questions which is why I really wanted to explore this. So you know, we are talking specifically about technology and the digital impact on middle school age kids. Why do you think it's really important to kind of carve out a specific conversation for this topic?
- [05:46]
In specific?
- [05:47]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah. Well, I think in general this particular generation has always been with technology, they don't know a time in their life without it. And so for them, it's interchangeable. Right. In person versus social interactions, they're like almost one and the same in the sense of how much they're influencing their being and their lives and their communication and who they connect with. So I think for us, we have to know that all the things that they think about, how they connect, how they learn so many aspects of their life has to do with in person, but also with technology and online. And so we have to be talking about it.
- [06:25]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I'm really curious, Dr. Whitney, do you know of any research or like scans of the brain in terms of what that's like? Right, because you and I grew up with. We got introduced to technology kind of later in our lives once we had kind of already grown up with analog, so to speak. Right. And so are there any models of what the brain looks like maybe now for kids this age versus maybe when we were younger?
- [06:49]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
So I'm not sure of any studies. There may be some that exist. I do know that we know that the brain is rewarded by being on social media. Right. And so that dopamine, that reward system, goes off when we have more interactions. And so I am sure that in some ways we see that for them is probably being influenced in some way because of just how the algorithms work and how our brain interacts with them.
- [07:18]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So you already mentioned that technology is really interchangeable with kids this age. What impact are we seeing with children middle school age in terms of social media and their relationship to screens?
- [07:30]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah, well, I think it's interesting because so many kids have phones, right? So like buy age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. So we know that they're accessing this information all the time. And so it is impacting who they're talking to. So they could be talking to their own friend group that they know, but they could also be talking to people who are just nationally far away. Right. And what we know is that for some kids it can be helpful, right? They could be creative, they can be connecting to people who have similar identities, and that can be really good for their mental health, but it can also be harmful for them depending on how open or like public facing their accounts are. And so I think that's interesting to think about because they are so much wired in how people are consuming their information socially. Right. So how many likes or views they're getting, we can see that that plays a huge part in like their way that they see themselves and how they feel about themselves. And so lots of ways that they want to connect and they feel like their friends are connecting in that way. So they want to be on social media. But it can have some good things happening and some negative aversive things too.
- [08:48]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. I'm really glad you shared this because this is probably. I mean there are lots of things I'm concerned about, but this in particular because we know that this kind of adolescent, preteen kind of stage is where developmentally they are so conscientious and conscious about like, like how are people perceiving me and what does this look like? And you know, like I said when I was younger, like that only kind of happened in like your day to day interactions. But now because you are perceived virtually right by like you said, people that you know and people that you do not know. Can you talk about like how that actually helps to shape their identity kind of being perceived online in this way?
- [09:26]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah, because you want people to like it so then they're thinking about how to make it the best or look the best or take the picture so many times to do the dance a certain way, you know, or can I be funny so that people really like there's this extra pressure to be something else sometimes that I think can be really hard for them. I also think the other thing is because everyone online is trying to be the best selves. There's this like fear of missing out that FOMO that can happen because you think that everybody's going on this vacation or doing these really big things or having this new technology system or game or something that you might not have. And so I think it can make you sometimes feel bad about yourself maybe if you are seeing people, either one interacting with each other and they're not interacting with you. So then you can feel left out or not included or you might feel that you don't have, but they have. And so you can feel less than in that way too. So there's lots of different harms a little bit in that way regarding, like you want to show your best, but also everyone else is doing that too. And so that can inadvertently make people feel less than when they're comparison or comparing themselves to each other.
- [10:41]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. And you know, you mentioned the idea of kind of paying attention to who's talking to who. And so the other thing that I think has been interesting around technology is like group chats and friendship groups and how they evolve or dissipate in some ways because of technology. So can you talk about like conflict resolution and like friendship management and how that is impacted by technology.
- [11:05]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah. Because we know for middle schoolers in particular, friends are so integral to, like, who they are, what they are, like, how they feel about themselves. And so back in the day, we used to, like, meet up in the cafeteria or recess or whatever else. And that's where we would all. Did you hear about this thing? Or whatever else? But group chat allows it so that now, you know, you're constantly connecting. Right. And so there's this pressure to connect. But also, if people are chatting and you are not on that chat, what's that mean? Are you not their friends anymore or are you being left out? Are they talking about you? Like, all of those anxieties start to happen when you're not included. And there are times when things are set on the group chat that can offend someone and naturally just bring forth some kind of conflict. Because I think we all can say that we've experienced this, what's said online. We don't have any of the facial expression, the tone. We just have the words that are there. And so you can misinterpret that pretty easily. And so your feelings could be heard about, why do they say that about me or they don't like me or whatever else. And that can then cause that conflict to occur. And so a lot of the work that I do when I'm talking to young people is trying to get them to understand, like, making sure they understand the true intent of what was said and also talking it out. Right. Because sometimes we make this huge assumption, and then we're so white and black about it, just like, oh, then we're not friends anymore and I don't like them, and starting this huge conflict rift when it could be truly a misunderstanding. And so part of it is also, like, helping them to kind of learn how to talk through things when it's happening over text, when lots of things can be said or typed incorrectly that are not the intended purpose of what the person who was sending it maybe had meant. We could see that happen.
- [13:07]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And this feels like such a tall order because we know even as adults, sometimes we struggle with the idea of, like, being left out or, like, oh, did she really mean that?
- [13:14]
Right.
- [13:15]
And so how do we even help kids when, you know, so much of their brain is not even fully developed yet? Like, how do we break these kinds of things down when we know that friendship and, like, comparison is so developmentally appropriate at this point? Like, what kinds of tips do you have for parents around how they can even broach these kinds of conversations?
- [13:35]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
I think One, having the conversation about, like, what friendship means to them and who they want to be their friends is so important. Because sometimes that particular person in the group that's in that group chat that maybe they're not included in is someone who they view as someone they really want to be their friend. And so sometimes it's ascertaining just why is it so important to them to be included? What does it mean for them? Or what do they think it means if they're not included? Because sometimes as adults, we are quick to be, like, not that big of a deal. Like, there's lots of other chats you could be a part of, and it's just this one chat. Like, that's how we can come off. But in their world, it might be super important for whatever reason. And learning why it's important can then help for us to then help them think through, like. So I see it's important for you. Is there a way to either ask to be on the group chat or connecting with someone who's on the chat to see why you're not on the group chat? Or is that, like, no, you can't ask in a part of my. Like, they'll. Because depending on the friend group, it can go different ways. And helping them also be able to say, like, is not being on the friend group really meaning you're not their friend? Could it be that this group met somewhere and so they're chat for. Because they met at that one place that one time and you're just not on there because you weren't at that place. But that doesn't mean you're not their friend. It just means that. That they had a particular interaction together and they formed a group chat. And so I think it's helping them see all the signs of possibilities and helping them to think through it a little bit before making a huge assumption about if they're friends or not? Because I do think, let's be honest, it feels harmful if you feel like all your friends are on something and you're not. And so I think it's important to validate and empathize with them, but then also help them think through, like, all the possible solutions or reasons as to why that could happen, and if truly is because someone is trying to leave them out, or maybe it's something that was, you know, an accident and they're not actually trying to not be their friend or something like that.
- [15:38]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Mm.
- [15:39]
You know, Dr. Winnie, I'm sure you're familiar with, like, all the research around, like, the concept of Relational aggression.
- [15:44]
Right.
- [15:44]
And this is not anything new. Right. The idea of leaving people out purposely, you're having a party and like everybody in the class is invited except this one person. And I know that that has always existed, but I feel it has taken on a different level of intensity, probably because of technology. Can you speak to relational aggression and how that may be? Is that developmentally appropriate or is this something we should really be talking to our kids about? Like how not to leave people out?
- [16:11]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Gotcha. I think it's definitely, especially in middle school, something to talk about because I find that this is one of those periods of time when that happens a lot. And talking to our kids one about not leaving people out because if they have control over it, it's great when they know it, can be aware. But it's also true that sometimes I think people feel that they have more social influence power when someone is left out. Right. There's something special about being the people that are included. And I think talking to our kids about that is important because leaving someone out is not necessarily making you or your group any better, More powerful, popular, or any of those things that I think sometimes they think can happen by leaving someone out. And I also think that like, it is a form of aggression, right? Because that person who's left out feels it knows they're being left out. And all the whispering and secret taking that the kids are doing is really harmful. So I do think it's like making sure to have those conversations. But if your child is the one that's left out, I definitely think talking to them about it is important because you have to empathize and relate with them, but also help them understand that like it's not them. Right. I think sometimes you can be like, oh, what's wrong with me? Right. When people don't want to invite you to the party, but really they're leaving you out and that is on them, right. For whatever reason. And we don't want them to take some kind of hit to their identity or their self esteem because they're not included. And so we definitely want to make sure we're checking in with them because it can happen that way, especially in middle school. I find it that there's always like one person against one person. And so they try to get people in their groups to not like this other person. And often that can then lead to that relational aggression and to leaving people out. And so figuring out how to dissolve that and get beyond this whispering kind of thing that happens is really, really important.
- [18:15]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So we haven't talked much and I definitely want to talk about where gaming fits into all of this. Right. So we know that kids spe a lot of time on video games, and for years this has been a topic of concern for parents. Do you feel like gaming is kind of just a normal developmental part of what's happening with kids as a way
- [18:31]
to connect with one another, or are
- [18:32]
there things we should be concerned about?
- [18:34]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
It's definitely so much as a part of their growing up. I feel like 85%. I thought we said stat that show that kids are gaming right now, so it's natural to think like it's normal and they should be like, that's what most kids are doing. They are gaming. But I think how they're gaming, we definitely need to talk about it because I have had so many parents concerned about what they're hearing their child talking about, talking to the language that's coming out of their mouth at times when they're gaming. And that is because when it's not just your group of friends, but it's open to the public and you're gaming with people nationally, you have no idea who your child is talking to. And so they might be like, oh, this is my friend xx and he does this and likes this, but you really have no idea who that person is. And, and oftentimes things that they're being influenced to hear can be very not age appropriate. And so all of a sudden you hear overhear your child saying some things that you're like, I don't talk like this at my house. Like you hear them talking about it, and that's because they're hearing it being chatted about during that gaming section. And so I think it's important as parents to say, yes, video games is something that lots of kids play, but there are different ways to play them. And there's a social component to many of these things. And with that social component, we have to kind of understand and talk to our kids about who they are talking to, how they play the game and what things we view as appropriate and not appropriate. And so if these not appropriate things are happening, how do we want them to handle those situations?
- [20:07]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And so what are your suggestions in terms of kind of guidelines to set with 6th, 7th, 8th graders around? Should they only really be playing with friends? When is it okay to play with people across the world? Like, what are your suggestions there?
- [20:22]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Honestly, I recommend all the time just playing with kids they know because there's safety in that you know them. You can bet their parents if something happens, then you know, who to contact as they get older. I think then if you want to do it publicly, you can. But if you decide, okay, yes, we are going to allow you to be open to the public than parent co watching and being there and allowing you to view what's happening. So it's not just happening on headphones. Like, I think that there are some key things that need to happen in order for that stage to happen. Because maybe they're like, none of my friends could play right now and I really want to play. It's like, okay, well if that's the case, then how do we make it so that I'm aware of what's happening and you are aware of what's safe and not safe? And so coming up with some guidelines to kind of discuss what that looks like, I think is really important. Having that type of relationship with your child that you know they're going to come to you and tell you this kind of stuff I think is important because if you know that your child is definitely not going to come tell you and is going to hide it from you, then you might want to make the rules a little bit more restricted versus a child who you know is going to follow the rules and you can have that kind of relationship, that open type of relationship where you can kind of talk through some of those things.
- [21:36]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
More from our conversation after the break.
- [21:44]
Child Voice
Mom, can I have Lingokids? Dad, Lingokids, please.
- [21:48]
Parent Voice
When did we become the Lingokids house?
- [21:50]
Child Voice
No idea. Last week it was Dinosaurs, this week it's Lingokids.
- [21:54]
Parent Voice
Why Lingokids?
- [21:55]
Child Voice
Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.
- [22:00]
Sponsor Voice
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [22:08]
Child Voice
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.
- [22:10]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Mango cakes.
- [22:12]
Parent Voice
Everything kids love. Download it for free.
- [22:14]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
A new school year means new opportunities for positive change, big or small. For parents looking for a new path to help your child succeed. This year there's still time to enroll in K12 powered online schools. This could be the perfect fit for your family. K12 powered schools offer tuition free accredited online public education for students in kindergarten through 12th grade. With a curriculum designed to meet your child where they are and support their unique needs, interests and goals. K12's dedicated teachers are trained in virtual instruction and provide real time support. All in an online setting that works for your family at home or anywhere there's Internet. It's not too late to enroll for this fall. See how K12 powered schools can help your child thrive this year and beyond. Enroll online today@k12.com tfvg that's the letter K the number12.com tfvg k12.com tfvg living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it. It's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. Today's sponsor is Chamberlain University. You've seen them. Nurses who just own every moment, who bring calm to chaos and hope to the hopeless, who make you think, that's exactly the kind of nurse I want to be. That's not by accident. That's by preparation. As the number one largest nursing school in the U.S. chamberlain University has been preparing nurses who don't just meet the moment, they own it. Start your journey at Chamberlain. Edu Chamberlain University belong to something greater Certified to operate By Shev
- [24:39]
so, Dr. Whitney, I'd love to hear your professional opinion here because I think I struggle with this, and I'm sure other parents struggle with, like, what is the line between, like, you just mentioned, like, healthy monitoring. Like, you know that I'm paying attention. Like, this is what parents are doing. Like, I need to make sure that you're safe. So what is the line between kind of like healthy monitoring versus like, surveillance? That kind of erodes trust. Right. And for gaming, but also for, like, group chats and, like, paying attention to their phones? Like, how do you walk that line in a way that lets them know, like, hey, I'm here, I'm paying attention versus I don't trust you. And it's erosion of the trust. Yes.
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Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Oh, it's tricky because it also depends on the child, too. But I think it starts off at the very beginning of when the device is allowed to have, like, okay, you have access to this device. Now what rules are we putting in place for you to have it and kind of setting up some things in the beginning regarding like what my role as the parent going to be with you in this device. Like I'm going to monitor it here and there. My goal is not to necessarily be eavesdropping on your friends, but I am going to check it from here every once in a while just to make sure things are on the up and up and like making it a nonjudgmental. I'm just wanting to be open to make sure that you're safe and keeping it clear versus I think sometimes if it's like I can see every chat that you say I'm asking you every question about every. Everything that you write can make the bend secretive to be honest with you. And so I think it is an important line to carry that you're saying like I'm going to check in with you. I want to have honest conversations about what you're doing on your phone or online. What you like, show me what you like, show me why you like it. All of those types of questions and interactions I think can be way more helpful than this, like policing it. Because I find that the policing it structure can often cause them to not be honest. And that's the key. We really do want them to be honest about what's happening. And I think our reactions to what they share with us is really key to that too. Because if we respond in a why would you do this? So I can't believe you did that or like those kinds of things. Right. They're taking cues about what they're not going to share with us next time. And so we have to kind of be really intentional about our reactions but also giving them ways to say like what's safe, what's not safe, what's too much information, how do you make sure you keep your privacy online? And so like all these types of conversations need to be ongoing. So like yes, this is not a one time kind of conversation but it's something that should be happening frequently as a part of checking in on it. So I think all of that needs to happen. And so I think that's how you toe the line is that we built in conversations on the device and how you're using them, how it's impacting you. Do you feel like you need to be on the game all the time? Why is that? I notice that you are cranky when I tell you it's time to get off the game. That's a little bit concerning for me. I don't want something to be so that much in your life that you can't do other things. Right. Let's have some conversation. Doing it that way could go a long way versus just saying no more or coming down hard where you're checking every single little thing.
- [28:07]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So really kind of approaching things with a spirit of curiosity as opposed to judgment, as you've mentioned.
- [28:12]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:13]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I think, you know, I appreciate you talking about, like, the importance of having conversations around, like, privacy and stuff. So something that I did not realize was a thing, but that very much is a thing, I think. And you can let me know, at least for my son's friend group is location sharing. So they, like, all want to, like, share location. And I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Like, why does anybody need. You can't drive. Like, why do your friends need your location? Has it been your experience? And that is something. Middle school is kind of new.
- [28:41]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
This is newer, but I've noticed it more. It's like keeping tabs on your friends. But you have to kind of understand, like, friendships change over time, and, like, having someone access every part of you is a little much. Right. And so I do think, like, having those conversations with your kids about, like, well, why would we want our friends to know everything about them, like, and where they are? Like, you're both at school. You're both at school. But I think there's this new thing about, like, it's just another way of, like, sharing, like, information. I understand why they want that, but, like, I do think we need to teach some boundaries because we do not need our kids telling every aspect of our lives to everyone. And we have to teach them boundaries. Right. Like, there's this thing with being online where it's that 247 almost information sharing, and it's overwhelming. And if you're not careful, you can blur the lines of these boundaries, and before you know it, you're exposing too much of yourself to people. And so I think teaching what a healthy boundary is with friends is important, especially when they're online and you're taking them home with you a little bit. You will need to be talking about what things we talk about what things we share and don't share.
- [29:56]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. And I mean, those were conversations we were always having with kids. Right. But I think the digital stuff adds another layer to the conversation. Like, oh, we got to talk about, like, boundary setting in this space also.
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Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah. And each device.
- [30:10]
Child Voice
Right.
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Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Because the devices and how they work and what information you share is different. And so I think it's really important that we really talk about in their own gaming, if they're on social media, if they use any of those types of things, we have to be talking about privacy and boundaries for all of those things.
- [30:28]
Child Voice
Mm.
- [30:29]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development Study, the largest long term study of brain development in US kids run by the nih, has tracked this exact age group, age is not to 15, and found that heavier screen and social media use is associated with worse mental and physical health outcomes over time. What do you feel like this large scale kind of longitudinal data adds to what you see in your kind of day to day clinical practice?
- [30:55]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah, I think it is the kids who I see are not doing as well is the kids who are on the devices a lot longer than the other ones. So when they're on it all day and they're not doing in person things with friends, they're not doing sports or getting out and having other activities that they like. And the electronics are their main focus of their day. That's when I start to see declines in anxiety and I see more depression and isolation. Right. I know we think social media and connection, and it was true that it can help us connect. But the more you're on it and you're not connecting in real life, I do start to see that decline in that feeling of connectedness. And so I do see that report of loneliness and feeling isolated. And so that's where I think the harms of mental health I see happen more and more. And so I think it's that teaching the balance part that's so important because the, when you tell me like, oh, it's summer vacation, that's when I start to get really worried because when you don't have things to do during the summer, then we start to rely so much on technology. And that's when I start to see this decline in mental health because we're not doing enough other things throughout the day. Yeah.
- [32:20]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
You know, and it feels like there is an added concern because now so much technology is involved even in instruction. Right. During the school year. So like there are very few like paper textbooks anymore. Like the whole textbook is online, even from math, which is like very odd to me. So is there that same concern with like just you may not be using the device for something like connecting on social media and kind of, you know, the relational aggression part, but they're still connected to a device even if it is for instruction. Are there concerns around even adding that as another layer of being exposed to digital devices?
- [32:54]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
I think it does add to the total time that you're online. So like I don't think it is as necessarily as harmful. It doesn't have as many risks as the other types may have. But I think one, it be so different. Like not all kids learn in the same way. And so I think it's important for parents to understand how their kids are learning if this is helpful or not helpful for them. Because there are certain kids who learn in different ways and modalities and so to check in on how they're doing. But we know that in general educational screen time is typically better than that non educational time. But I do think if you are on a screen all day when you come home, your brain probably still needs a break. Right. And so I do think even though it might be for leisure, we still have to add that total time in there. And we want them to have breaks away from the screen doing other things. It's just our bodies, our brains need breaks from it. And so we as. That's why I say the total time is adding up. And so we need to kind of consider like when does your brain get a break from the screen and when are you doing other things that I think is important for parents to consider.
- [33:59]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. And our eyes. Right. I mean, I know this is not either of our specialty, but my own eye doctor has talked about like how much worse your vision gets because we are spending so much time on screens.
- [34:09]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah. Eyes and your physical help. Right. Just like if you're not moving your body enough. And I've heard from different kids like literally talking about different body pains and aches because they're not moving. And I'm like, you're too young for this type of thing. And that's just because you're not moving enough.
- [34:27]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So you mentioned already you gave the example of maybe a parent who when they tell the kid it's time to put the game down, it always erupts into a fight. And I think that this is probably a very familiar story. Right. Every time you are talking about a device, it ends up in a fight. Can you share maybe what might be going wrong in the communication if every time you try to like set a boundary around screens and stuff, it ends in a fight, what might be happening there?
- [34:52]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
So one, I think there's always when I think of a behavior we don't like, there's the antecedents. Right. Like what do we set up beforehand to make it go well. Right. And so we really want to be clear about what the rules are in your house that they know that when you say that it's time to get off the game. It's actually time to get off. You have the expectation that they are going to get off or what that looks like. And so that is something to think about, but also giving them warnings. So for instance, if you tell a kid it's time to get off a game and they're in the middle of a level in a game and you have to stop and you're gonna die and all this work you just did, like you are going to get an irritable kid, right? And so there are ways to give like, okay, when you're done with this level or a way for them to time it so that it can go well. So there's things that we can do on the front end to make sure that there's communication about like how the game works, when is a good amount of time on the game for you and the child that you think is reasonable and how it looks to come off. But then they have to come off the game. And so if for whatever reason now they're irritable and we've done these other things, one thing to then have a conversation about, is it becoming too important for them, right? Like are there not other things in their life that they do that they enjoy that they can do when they don't have the gaming system? And so part of it is having that conversation is that like if I notice that like you can't get off of it, that means we might be spending too much time on it or it's becoming too big for us and we need to think about a list of other things that we want to get involved in or try to do that can be really helpful. And there has to be some kind of consequence, right, regarding not getting off, if that is what the expectation is. And so I always said like there needs to be conversation ongoing about this because a one time irritable is not like we need to change the whole plan. But I really encourage families to have family plans about all gaming systems and how they work. Because if we don't have a plan in place, then it can easily be that the child spends way too much time on it. Right? Way more than we want them to because we've lost track of time, we're overdoing what we're trying to do and we don't even realize how long we've been on it. And so having a family plan says, hey, we put this family plan in place, this is what the expectations are for it, this is how you need to be doing. But also here are some Other things you can do instead of when your time is up and you're needing to go to a different device. But also, if it's happening all the time and the outbursts are getting really big, that might mean, hey, we need to have a deeper conversation because maybe something else is going on than just the game itself. And we need to be thinking about, like, what those other things could be, like a mood concern or something else that we need to kind of talk about.
- [37:46]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
You know, I would imagine there may be somebody who is listening to our conversation and feeling like, oh, my gosh, I have gone way too far on the other end, right? Like, maybe I gave him unrestricted access to the device and I didn't have these conversations, and now I'm listening to you, and I feel like I need to reel it back in. Where are some reasonable places to start without it maybe feeling punitive? If you realize, okay, I need to put some kind of boundaries in place with my child.
- [38:10]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
I think starting off with a family conversation and saying, like, the truth is, us as adults, we're on our electronics too much, too, right? So I think it's perfectly healthy to have a conversation where we all talk about how we're all on our electronics too much and what we want to do as a family. So re center ourselves a little bit to make sure that the screens aren't driving everything that we do. And what does that look like for the parents? Because you got to model it. It is very hard for you to tell your kid, okay, don't be on your phone. This all the time. Don't do. And then there you are at the table on your phone, right? And so I think having that conversation as a family is so important. And then determining what it looks like to have good boundaries and phones as a family, like, what does that look like? And see what they say. Believe it or not, the most I've heard in therapy sometimes is for kids suggesting they need their own breaks before I even bring it up, right? I have had them being like, I think I need a break from social media or something, because I can tell it's. And, like, having those conversations are really important. So, like, I think bringing it up and saying, listen, you know what? We have kind of just let everybody do their own thing. And I've noticed that we're all on our screens a lot. What are some ways that we can kind of reel it in a little bit, come up with some boundaries around it, and then what are some other things as a family we want to do? Because I think Just taking it away and not generating a list of. Of possibilities means you're often going to default back to the screen because you haven't really thought through it enough. And so I think it's important to really make sure you have a list of other things that they can do that's going to make it more successful. I will say that, like, you can start small, right? Sometimes it's like we're going to do 30 minutes of family time every day, and that's where we're going to start.
- [40:02]
Child Voice
Right.
- [40:03]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
It doesn't have to be a huge thing at first, but then I'm hopeful that you'll notice the joys of what it's like to be off the screen. That it naturally then makes it easier to restrict it a little bit more. But I can tell you that going from full access to trying to limit can be really difficult. And so that's why I do say starting off with the conversations where the kids can honestly say what they think is reasonable, because for the most part, I've noticed that they are able to give pretty good answers for that and can be reasonable, where you can kind of compromise and come up with something that both can agree upon.
- [40:41]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
So we spent a lot of time talking about kind of more traditional, kind of digital stuff, but there is a new player in the space in terms of AI, Right. Are you already having conversations with clients and families in your practice around how AI is impacting middle schoolers and, you know, what kinds of things they're actually doing with AI?
- [40:59]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah, I think we all need to, because AI is in. So it's been built into so much of our life. And so in simple ways, we talk to Alexis, we talk to Siri, those kinds of things. But now you can have a companion, right. If you want to. And it can start off so easily, right. Like asking about a math question. And then it grows into more. Because the way the algorithm works is it's learning you, and it's very affirmative. And so we have to be able to talk to our kids about that because they're going to come upon it and start using it. And if we don't talk about it and share with them, like, I understand how this works and that you're going to be exposed to it and this is how people use it and talk to them about how they plan on using it and what they should use it for and what things that they should be weary of using it for. Like, those things need to happen, because if we don't share that information, they're just naturally just start doing more and more things with it. And that's when I think the harms can come into it. Because the algorithm is not thinking about your child safety, right? The AI algorithm is thinking about how can I engage you more. And so I just think it's really, really important for us to have that conversation early about how it works, the dangers of it, what kind of conversations they're having, and continuing to have the conversations over and over again to check
- [42:27]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
in more from our conversation after the break.
- [42:36]
Child Voice
Mom, are we there yet?
- [42:37]
10 more minutes.
- [42:38]
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [42:41]
Parent Voice
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [42:45]
Child Voice
They love it. The games open this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [42:51]
No.
- [42:53]
Sponsor Voice
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [43:00]
Parent Voice
Why didn't we download this sooner?
- [43:04]
Child Voice
Everything kids love download it for free.
- [43:06]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
A new school year means new opportunities for positive change, big or small. For parents looking for a new path to help your child succeed this year, there's still time to enroll in K12 powered online schools. This could be the perfect fit for your family. K12 powered schools offer tuition free accredited online public education for students in kindergarten through 12th grade with a curriculum designed to meet your child where they are and support their unique needs, interests and goals. K12's dedicated teachers are trained in virtual instruction and provide real time support, all in an online setting that works for your family at home or anywhere there's Internet. It's not too late to enroll for this fall. See how K12 powered schools can help your child thrive this year and beyond. Enroll online today@k12.com tfvg that's the letter K the number12.com tfvg k12.com tfvg living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions like Myositis and igan. Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to untold stories life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today's sponsor is Chamberlain University. You've seen them. Nurses who just own every moment, who bring calm to chaos and hope to the hopeless, who make you think, that's exactly the kind of nurse I want to be. That's not by accident, that's by preparation. As the number one largest nursing school in the U.S. chamberlain University has been preparing nurses who don't just meet the moment, they own it. Start your journey at Chamberlain. Edu Chamberlain University belong to something greater. Certified to operate by Chev.
- [45:32]
You know, there's been more research kind of coming out, and it's still very early days, right? As AI kind of proliferates more of our lives around, like, critical thinking and like, how kids are turned into this. Like you said, like, maybe you think it's like, just help with the math homework, but then it becomes like, oh, write this paper for me, right? And so research coming out, talking about the decline in, like, critical thinking and like, really establishing that. But we know this is an age where that's what is supposed to be happening. So what kinds of conversations can we be having and what should we be paying attention for in terms of making sure that kids are not over relying on AI for something like that?
- [46:06]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
I think it's really important to talk about. AI is supposed to make our lives easier. Our instincts are to do the easiest thing, the easiest thing. But the easiest thing is that actually the best thing for us all the time. It can really get in the way of us learning and getting us ready for the next step. I think it's important to talk to our kids about why we have to go through certain steps in order to get us ready. If we rely on AI to write our paper, right, we did not learn how to then write the paper. We get out of practice. And so in college or when you're in your job later on and you need to write something and know if it's good or not. If you don't have practice actually doing that, you won't know. And so I think it's important to teach them. Like, I know it's easy to try to use the chat box, right? But I want you to learn how to do it for your own good. Like, the process of learning how to write a paper and to make a good paper is going to help you in the long run. And believe it or not, like they're not that good at writing the papers. They're okay. But there are some weaknesses. And if you don't know how to read and understand what a good paper versus a bad paper is, you're going to set yourself up for not getting the grades you want to get. And so I would hate for them to not learn how to do the heavy stuff. And so part of it is teaching our kids, like, what is important for you in the long run? Right. What is your long term goal? Why do you think the teacher assigned you this paper? Right. It's in order for you to learn how to compare two things or to make a good argument. And if you aren't doing that, then you are not practicing it and therefore are not learning how to do it and therefore are not getting the skill that the teachers and we as their parents are hoping that they learn. And so kind of teaching them or walking through that I think is important because problem solving is so key. It starts off little, like, I have a three year old, so we're letting him problem solve a little bit now. But as they get older, more and more problem solving happens. As to the point you're adulting and all you do, it feels like, is solve problems. You want to have practice being able to ascertain what's good or bad, like the different solutions, all these different things. And you don't want to be reliant on needing to chat something to help you make decisions. You should be able to have your life experience and people in your life that can help you solve those things. And so I think it's really important to kind of have those conversations with our kids about like, why we don't want them relying on it and what they need in the long term to be successful.
- [48:51]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. And even beyond like the critical thinking and the educational components, we also know that there have been instances where kids are using this for mental health support.
- [49:00]
Child Voice
Right.
- [49:00]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And sadly have had some tragic stories of kids taking their lives after using a chatbot or so. What kinds of suggestions would you give to parents around making sure they are paying attention to how kids are using AI, maybe even for emotional support?
- [49:16]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Yeah. I think number one is paying attention to their friendships in general, making sure you know who their friends are or if they're struggling to make friends, because oftentimes I think if they're not having good relationships in real life, then that's when they can often turn to that more AI kind of companion to answer those types of questions. But also having those questions about how you use the AI. So they're saying like, well, I ask them about friend questions or I ask them what I should do. Those things should be kind of like little red flags, like, oh, that's interesting that you decided to go to that source for that type of question. But then especially when you see your child having signs of like anxiety, depression, isolating more, not being who they usually are, those are really concerning warning flags that like, we wouldn't want them relying on AI to help them manage stress. And here's the thing, kids are stressed and I think as adults we have to really like. Because sometimes I hear from parents all the time, like, what do they even have to be stressed about? And I'm like, a lot. They have a lot to be stressed about and they are looking for things. And the thing about it is, if not taught how to do it and have those conversations with us on managing it, then they will go to their friends or they will go to the wrong maladaptive types of things to try to manage their stress. And so I think it's really important for us to have those conversations with our kids about how they feel stressed, what stresses them out. Like when they're stressed, what do they want to do or how do they manage, what do they need help with? Like have those real kinds of conversations and what they're doing, is it working or not? Because if it's not working, then that means we need to help them find better coping strategies to manage the stress. Because we don't want them relying on ChatGPT or some other companion to give them the answer. Because we know that those are not necessarily going to be giving them the expert qualified answer. And we want them talking to a human when they are talking about those different kinds of level of mental health concerns or stressors they may be experiencing.
- [51:32]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Dr. Whitney, do you feel like there are any particular concerns for black teens and preteens given what we know about algorithmic bias? Bias, right. Like we know that there tends to be racism sprinkled into all of the things and the kinds of information that we are shown. Are there particular concerns related to this, especially for black kids?
- [51:50]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Because, like, in some ways, I like research has shown that social media can be really great for black and brown kids because it can often share with you information that maybe your local media isn't showing you all the truth and in some ways it can give you accurate information. But if we're talking AI too, AI is just pulling from different sources and they can be anything, right? And they can be racist and they can be unfounded and so we really have to make sure that we talk to our kids about. Just because AI put it up on your screen to tell you these things, you have to look at the sources and they can be very much built upon some racist idea. Right. And so teaching our kids those things I think is important because the truth of the matter is that when you are online, you are putting yourself out there to be exposed to people. And in general people can be racist. That's just the fact of the matter. And you're going to see things that can be harmful. And teaching our kids when they see those things, like what it is, how to deal with it, how does it make them feel processing it, not just absorbing it and holding it on all those things, God has to be talked about. But I do think that it does put them at risk because the algorithm can pull from anything and there's a lot of racist things out there online for them to pull from. So we definitely have to have those conversations about the harms. Because yes, it can be helpful, but there can be times when it doesn't pull the right information and it can be harmful to us as well.
- [53:23]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
You already mentioned that kids are very stressed and I really appreciate you sharing that. Right. Because I think that sounds like something I would say like, oh, what do you have to be stressed about? Right. But you're right, like even all the things that we've talked about, it's a lot for young people to navigate in this world that look very different than even maybe what we as their parents had to navigate. So what are some of the building blocks of like building emotional resilience for kids that we can work on with them as parents?
- [53:47]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
First of all, you, the parent are a huge building block. You yourself, right? I have to remind parents sometimes because especially in the teenage years when the kid feel like they would have nothing to do with you, that's not necessarily true. Okay. They still value very much your praise, your encouragement, your opinions, even if you might get a roll of eyes or something like that. Like I'm telling you, like having trusted adults in a kid's life is so important, especially for black and brown youth, that network size can be so important. And so thinking about for our youth, what are we doing to build their community, I think is so important when we're talking about resilience. And then the other thing to think about is we want to make sure that they have good routines, schedules, those kinds of things that we know can be really helpful in your just day to day mental wellness. Right. Like you Know what to expect and where you're going and thought through those things. Those things are important. But then problem solving, teaching our kids to problem solve, I think is so very important. How do you have a short term goal and then make it a long term goal? How do you make sure that it's measurable and you can attain it? When you're struggling with something, who do you go to? Like having conversations about those kinds of things and not everything you want to have happen is going to work out the way that you want it to. And helping our kids manage that, right. The disappointments of life, to talk through them and to understand, okay, what's plan B when plan A doesn't work and being okay with that and malleable when life isn't going the way you want is so important. Because I think if we allow everything our kid wants to happen exactly like it's just not the way the world works. And so we want to prepare them for those things. We need to have those conversations. We need to prepare them to deal with hard things. You're not always going to get along with your friend. There's going to be times when they're going to want to do something, you're going to want to do something, or you have conflict. How do you manage that? Let's talk through managing conflict in a household, we should be modeling how to do it because in the real world you're going to face it. There might be times where people don't like you. How do you deal with that and still be the best you. Right. And especially even online, there are times where people might say something mean about your post. They don't get it, they're being mean to you. And I think it's so important for us to be ahead of it with our kids, to have those conversations and to be that non judgmental force for them to know that when they're encountering something, they can come to you and talk it out with you. And the key with those conversations is we talk to them, but we let them talk and we do a lot more eliciting, which I think can be so hard because sometimes we just want to give them the answer but then say, like, what do you think would be the best thing to do next? Put it back on them. What are they thinking? Helping them to learn that process of problem solving I think is key. And then saying, okay, I hear you, can I give you some suggestions? Asking for that can be really, really helpful. But I think it's key into building resilience for them is that and then the last thing is dealing with stress, because we're all going to deal with it. And so I think it's important to talk about how I deal with my stress may be different than how you deal with it, but we have to find a way for you to learn how to manage it. And I mean, one of the most used techniques is to avoid. But we have to talk about, like, how that doesn't work in the long term. Right. And so what are those things that we need in order to manage the stress we're having? Because as we get older, if we don't know how to manage our stress, then we turn to substances, we turn to other things that we don't want our kids turning to. And so we got to talk through those things with them. And those are the building blocks, right? So our relationships with them, making sure they're positive, those routine conversations, teaching them how to problem solve the hard stuff, letting them face the hard stuff. It's okay if they fail. Helping them learn through that failure is really, really important. And then champion them when they do well. Like, they need to hear our praise and our encouragement for their effort for when we see them trying to do their best. And then when they do well, like, we need to make sure they hear it. Because all those things, I think for me, there are times when graduate school and all those things are really hard. But like, I remember my mom screaming so loud when I got my first interview for graduate school. Like, that champion cheerleader spirit can sometimes be the thing that helps you sometimes when you remember, like, I have people on my side when things feel hard. And so I think that's just another thing to make sure that they have, like, network size with those champions as well.
- [58:51]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Thank you so much for that. I think those are excellent building blocks for us to incorporate. So for anybody who's listening, who maybe feels overwhelmed and like, oh my gosh, so many things to tackle at once. What is one thing maybe you'd like them to do this week? To kind of start making some progress
- [59:06]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
in this space, Start with some simple conversations. Just what does your child like? What do they like doing online? Why do they like it? And just starting off there just to get to know what they like in a nonjudgmental way can sometimes get the rest of those kinds of conversations and other things that we talked about started. But we just want to start off simple with just a getting to know kind of conversation.
- [59:33]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
And what would you like middle schoolers themselves to know if they ever happen to listen to this conversation
- [59:40]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
that you don't have to be on every device all the time. Sometimes we feel like if we miss an alert on the group chat that maybe they'll think we don't care or like it's the end of the world if our parents are saying you have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in your life to miss out on. And so having some good boundaries is important. And you will thank them in the long run for making sure that you have other things that you like as well in your life.
- [60:14]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Beautiful. This has been so incredibly helpful. Dr. Whitney, please let us know where we can stay connected with you. What is your website and any social media channels you'd like to share.
- [60:23]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
So you can always find more information at the kids mental healthfoundation.org so that's kids mental healthfoundation.org and then you can find me on Instagram at Dr. Whitphd. Oh Dr. Witt, PhD is my Instagram. So they can definitely follow me on Instagram and then all the other information they could find. Where I work is the Kids with the Help Foundation. We have a lot of resources that we talked about today. Developing a family plan and learning about AI and gaming and all those kinds of things on our website that can be really helpful.
- [60:57]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Perfect. We'll be sure to include all of that in our show Notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I appreciate it.
- [61:03]
Dr. Whitney J. Raglan Bignall
Thank you for having me. This is awesome.
- [61:05]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Thank you. I'm so glad Dr. Ragland Bignall was
- [61:11]
able to join me for this incredible
- [61:13]
conversation to learn more about her and her work. Be sure to visit the Show Notes at therapy for black girls.com session476. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast? If you have thoughts about topics we should discuss, drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and come on over and join us in our Patreon community for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content and much more. You can join us@community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Bria Moseley. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
- [62:21]
Child Voice
Mom Are we there yet?
- [62:22]
10 more minutes.
- [62:23]
Only 10 minutes. Can you drive slower?
- [62:26]
Parent Voice
What's up with them today? Lingokids, that app we downloaded last week.
- [62:30]
Child Voice
They love it. The games, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there.
- [62:36]
No.
- [62:38]
Sponsor Voice
With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows little ones can't get enough of, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.
- [62:45]
Parent Voice
Why didn't we download this sooner?
- [62:49]
Child Voice
Everything kids love, download it for free.
- [62:51]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Grounded self reflection requires an open mind and the right tools. That's why the G2 Boost collection from Pilot is a natural fit. Based in color Science, the Collection features premium G2 gel pens in curated packs designed to fuel different mindsets. Green for balance, blue for productivity, purple for creativity, and pink for optimism. Choosing a color to match or enhance an emotional state becomes a simple self care ritual that helps people show up as their best selves. Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Life with a severe autoimmune condition, they go beyond MG and cidp as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and eye gan into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Life with a severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Podcast Sponsor Voice
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